What did Big Boss do exactly to turn him into a "demon"? I get that he was a bad guy in MG1 and MG2, but I don't know what sort of horrible atrocities he committed to earn the right of being killed twice by your own clone.
Also metal gear thread
The guy was holding the threat of nuclear war over everyone's heads and was looking to toss the world into perpetual conflict simply because he was self-centered enough to think that his addiction to war was indicative of mankind's true nature.
The particulars involve grooming children into soldiers among general blood-lust things.
Your nations biggest war hero goes completely off the reservation, forms a rogue nation and builds a mercenary army. And then it is confirmed that they have motherfucking walking tanks with nukes. Not hard to picture why some wouldn't want that guy around anymore.
You'll have to play TPP to find out. I think we know why these things will happen.
1. His abandonment of The Boss and her teachings in PW leads to his ideology of no ideology. This sets creates a volatile state for BB.
2. The loss of MSF is the spark that leads him on his path of revenge.
>mfw it's coming out in less than 6 months
>I explain his motivations, which is really just a regurgitation of what he himself admits in Metal Gear 2, and what the Solid series also depicts him as
>"I honestly don't think he's a villain."
You're fucking delusional.
>inb4 even with TPP they still don't explain him going bad.
>Everyone thought Peace Walker would be about him going bad.
>Kojima, again, makes him into a flawed but reasonable character.
Also, there is all this shit that people know about Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain that I don't. I feel like I missed something. Shit like one of them is supposed to be a traitor and "I'M GOING NUCLEAAAR" and "STANDING ON THE EDGE OF THE CRATER"
Were these from trailers or something? I haven't watched any of the trailers besides the E3 reveal.
You really don't think Darth Vader was a villain? Even though he helped slaughter the Jedi and numerous innocents in a campaign to put an entire collection of planets under an unquestioned authoritarian rule?
Hitler "had his reasons." Stalin "had his reasons." The Kim regime in North Korea "has their reasons." They're still fucking assholes that have done despicable things.
>So far hes a tragic anti-hero. Not a Villain.
That's the issue, yes.
He always had his motivations. What I'm objecting to is not that he has nuance, but that his villainous activities were actually acts of resistance against the controlling Patriots.
You're misinterpreting. The Patriots and Outer Heaven are necessarily opposed--so yes, it makes sense for Big Boss to be opposed to the total control of the Patriots, and it makes sense for the Patriots to want Big Boss and his Outer Heaven gone. But Big Boss was still a madman that wanted to throw the world into total war. His dream didn't change. The Patriots were just added to the equation.
Big Boss's mission statement at the end of Peace Walker reaffirms this.
That is like saying that the guy who wanted to kill Hitler because he cheated him out of 20 bucks once was some grand hero. Just because he fought the big bad, doesn't mean he was the big good
I guess. I just felt like it was hugely unnecessary to have him fight the Patriots when MGSV could have been the story of him taking on an unsuspecting world to build his dream.
And then you get people like this. This is why MGS4 made a mess of his character.
I've noticed this much more as well. I know we all have a hard on for MGS, and there'd always be at least 1 thread on here about it, but recently i've been seeing 3, 4, sometimes 5 threads at the same time, all being actively posted on. Makes me feel good, but reaffirmed that i'm completely quitting /v/ when TPP comes out.
>The Patriots were just added to the equation.
Adding the patriots to the equation changes BB's motivations significantly though. It turns Outer Heaven into an act of defense, a reaction to patriot control, rather than an unwarranted act of war against the civilized world.
It's not really unnecessary at all. It would have been more weird for Big Boss to have ignored the Patriots when they were so representative of the manipulation he despised (though Big Boss was admittedly a total hypocrite).
Liquid Snake, Solidus, and Ocelot wanted the Patriots gone for similar reasons. They all wanted to revive Big Boss's dream, and that couldn't be done unless the Patriots were eliminated.
Yeah, it changes that ideology to something more like "the guy who wanted to kill Hitler because he cheated him out of 20 bucks after murdering his entire village and committing genocide against race" but everyone assumed it was just for the $20
I know he's Jewish but cmon
I think its just the evolution of the character and the context given to the government and U.N.
>Lost The Boss
>Became a legend but only to continue fighting (he was somewhat of a rookie in MGS3)
>Portable Ops happened (not sure how much of this is cannon at this point)
>PW, the insights of the boss given in the tapes, BB building a home for soldiers, a leader who only knows about war is a no brainer he'll have weapons and nukes and tanks, choppers and a bipedal WMD.
>Loosing all that hard work in GZ
He got his superstitious ass possessed by Ghost Volgin.
It's like a 2D version of MGS1 as far as gameplay goes, which makes it a little bit clunky. Big Boss returns, kidnaps a scientist and forces him to make Metal Gear. You stop him and kill him for good.
It's where Metal Gear really became Metal Gear. Unfortunately the codec is still pretty frustrating to use, but there's emotional cutscenes and interesting backstories and so on and so forth.
Its the only game that apparently isnt shit.
I didnt like Ac!d though, but I enjoyed Ghost of Babel greatly
It better be a ghost/demon that haunts Snake throughout the game.
I'll even fucking quote the games.
MGS4's Liquid Ocelot says:
>"America will descend into chaos. It'll be the Wild West all over again. No law, no order. Fire will spread across the world. The people will fight... And through battle they will know the fullness of life. At last... Our father's will... His Outer Heaven... Is complete."
Big Boss himself in Peace Walker says:
>We will forsake our countries; we will leave our Mother Lands behind us and become one with this Earth. We have no nation, no philosophy, no ideology, we go where we're needed, fighting not for country, not for Government, but for ourselves. We need no reason to fight; we fight because we are needed. We will be the deterrent for those with no other recourse. We are soldiers without borders, our purpose defined by the era we live in; we will sometimes have to sell ourselves and services. If the times demand it, we'll be revolutionaries, criminals, terrorists. And yes, we may all be headed straight to Hell, but what better place for us than this? It is our only home. Our Heaven, and our Hell. This, is Outer Heaven.
Sounds consistent with what we knew before to me.
>Did big boss use any nukes or was he just evil for using child soldiers?
This one is bothering me.
In the tapes, Paz -besides the fact that shes a fucking slut bitch horse fucker- ends up liking Mother Base, even though she's a spy, she realizes that it is actually a good place, a good place to live in to leave behind Cipher
But then again, shes a fucking brainwashed teenager, so whatever, the little cunt did what she did because she was being manipulated, but anyways, IS IT REALLY THAT BAD FOR CHILDREN TO LIVE AND BE RAISED AS SOLDIERS IN FUCKING MOTHERBASE?
Take in the fact that we know they're being treated well in MSF.
>posted this when pictures of the figure first came out
>20 different posts spamming about how it's python from PO and how this proves it's canon
The game's controls are a bit stiff, but the enemy placement and level design are significantly better than anything in Metal Gear Solid 1. The game is much more satisfying to play.
Is there confirmation from Kojima or KojiPro that we'll actually see Big Boss become "evil" in TPP? Because I've been waiting since MGS3 to see the change (or some glimpse of it) and all I've seen so far is a very slow gradual change that spans 4 titles. It really seems like, financially and creatively, Konami and KojiPro are gonna milk BB's storyline dry and string us along as long as possible.
I really hope they don't and they just close out BB's storyarc already, but who knows.
>people say volgin is a shitty character
>volgin is literally the cause of every event in the canon
>if he didn't fire the nuke snake eater wouldn't have even happened
Why would you quote Liquid Ocelot about Big Boss's motivations?
And that speech is more about "we will fight for those who need us" than "eternal war is desirable". Unfortunately I don't have the quotes from MGS4 on hand but I'm pretty sure it directly paints Outer Heaven as a bastion of resistance against the Patriots.
What the fuck are you talking about, it is clear from peace walker, ground zeroes, and trailers that the whole reason big boss is doing any of this shit is to get revenge on cipher AKA the patriots. He goes to extremism to fight them. He is going to be a dark Anti-Hero fighting against an illuminati government- from any outsiders point of view however, he will look like an evil villain. Its like the TIMES theme- the TIMES turn big boss into a villain. Its about how he is perceived. Remember the theme for MGSV is supposed to be race- that deep down beneath it all, at our core, we are all human beings and essentially the same, and that it is differences in appearences or beliefs about other people and their cultures, lack of understanding and open mindedness, that causes conflict and war.
He's given next to no backstory and doesn't appear in shit besides 3. He's very cartoonish yet he's not all that likable or memorable. That he started a chain reaction of events doesn't mean he's a good character.
He's not shitty at all, his objectives and intentions are completely realistic in the context of the Cold War and I enjoy his VA (dat aristocratic jock voice).
Besides, his entire plan was eventually realized through Zero and the War Economy.
don't bring him into this you bastard!
>Why would you quote Liquid Ocelot about Big Boss's motivations?
Because it's consistent with everything we hear previously about Big Boss. Ocelot's entire goal was to shut down the Patriots to revive Big Boss and Outer Heaven.
>And that speech is more about "we will fight for those who need us" than "eternal war is desirable"
Big Boss even mentions that they will fight for themselves. The latter is just a natural evolution of the former for someone that doesn't want to lose relevance or his only direction in life. Big Boss says as much in Metal Gear 2. The rest of the games in the series are consistent with this. But even if you discard that, Big Boss's statements in Peace Walker alone demonstrate that his dream is inconsistent with that of the Patriots. Which proves my point.
Solidus was given next to no backstory and didn't appear in shit besides 3 and a very minor cameo in 4. He's very cartoonish, yet for some reason he's likeable and memorable. That he started a chain reaction of events doesn't mean he's a good character.
>complaining about things being cartoonish in fucking MGS3 of all games
yeah, Big Boss basically considers himself a living weapon. He would probably do really well in Spartan society. Or maybe not because Spartans do everything for the State- but they definitely have the whole warrior culture thing down.
The key point of Big Bosses transformation is at whatever point he decides that "fighting is the best thing and the only place for us warriors" should instead be "fighting is the best thing and the only place for all human beings."
Will the shrapnel in his head cause his change to being a villain? I hope not. That's kind of a cheap way to change his personality suddenly.
Though I guess it could be used to bring up existential questions about identity and stuff like that.
Well Solidus is memorable and likable because he did nothing wrong. Volgin was just an asshole.
Speak for yourself retard Solidus is the best character in the series.
>Solidus wasn't likable or memorable.
This is bait.
Kojima said on twitter once that its hard, because they have to portray him as heroic enough that people still like him and want to play as him, but at the same time they have to portray him becoming a "Demon" and make sure it is clearly understood why the world wants him dead and why he is one of the most dangerous people in the world.
He said when he started working on the game, he didnt think this was possible, but mid way through production, he saw Breaking Bad, and Walter White apparently proved to him that such a character is possible, and somehow reaffirmed that he was on the right track.
>paz's japanese confirmed she was recording voice lines for the phantom pain
>implying this isn't paz back as a ghost
thank fuck I checked the PSN Holiday sale out of curiosity.
Ground Zeroes for $7? Yes please.
Any tips to not suck? I'm used to my Soliton Radar in the other MGS games (or going Rambo in MGS3)
If Kojima keeps the course and limits retcons to a minimum, we will be recruiting child soldiers and using them to flame wars, creating a process of instability and further recruitment to bread into warriors, just to send them back into the slaughter for war profiteering.
REMEMBER MGS2? WHAT WAS THE CENTRAL THEME?
Information control, media control, situation control, you were deceived all the way through the game, even until the ending. Do you really think Big Boss was evil? Who is his main enemy? Zero. What group did Zero form? The same one that led to the events of MGS2 and the one that sought control.
That's my crackpot theory anyways
Since Raiden was full of nanomachines during Big Shell, would The Patriots be able to just stop his heart or whatever at any time? I've always wondered this.
yeah, I played metal gear 2, I was planning on asking you the same. START A WAR, FAN FLAMES, RESCUE NIGGAS, MAKE THEM FINE SOLDIERS IN THE NEXT WAR
I know all of this. What people seem to forget is that everyone fucking loves BB in that game. All of his soldiers praise him as a hero who was kind, compassionate, and saved their lives and treated them well. He cared for war orphans very, very, very well. Nigga even blasted christmas music throughout his base.
It continued into MGS1 as well, where literally every boss characters backstory and past could be summarized as "Big Boss was awesome, saved my life, and gave me purpose and reason. If it werent for him, I would have just been a mindless killer or a complete psychopath. He grounded me and gave me a cause and treated us well."
This isn't Darth Vader roaming around choking his own dudes and not giving a fuck. This isn't the Joker killing everyone and everything left and right while laughing and thinking its funny. It isnt even Bane, who is a lot like boss, but does it all for greed, money, and power.
Big Boss does this to give people who otherwise have no place a home and a purpose. He does it for retribution for those killed by an illuminati type all seeing organization. He does it to take them down and fight against it, albeit by extremes and doing any means neccessary.
He is by no means a good guy.
But he isn't evil either.
I really don't think they'd write that in. I think the main reason for the odd shrapnel is to visually draw parallels between the new Big Boss' and the Japanese mythological creature of "Oni" (basically their demon, or the devil).
One of Oni's biggest signature features are horns and a red face (again, parallels at the end of the "Nuclear" trailer where BB, face covered completely red in the blood of his fallen comrades, looks up to the sky and the camera focuses on his single shrapnel "horn". The point in which he becomes a demon, perhaps).
>zero would want to portray big boss as a villain
Big Mama goes on like 30 minute monologue on how Zero wanted Big Boss to become a Jesus Christ figure so that he could gain power. Why would he want to go around telling people about the atrocities he committed?
You can go rambo on this too, but its a bit tough to rambo if you play on hard difficulty.
Take it slow, mark all enemies, and approach with caution. They can see further than you think. Actually think and plan routes an contingency plans if you encounter something unexpected. Get used to thinking on your feet.
You will probably get spotted a few times on your first couple of playthroughs, This is ok, its normal.
Have fun. It is the first time where the Tranq is not overpowered and when non lethal is tougher than lethal, making non lethal runs when you pull them off that much more rewarding.
He isn't evil in a one dimensional sense, no, because very few decently written antagonists are. But he is evil in an exploitative and egocentric Mr. Kurtz (Colonel Kurtz if you're a fan of Apocalypse Now) sense.
People love Big Boss, sure, because he's very charismatic. But that doesn't change the fact the guy was addicted to murder and projected his addiction onto all of humanity, including Snake:
>Big Boss: The nightmares? They never go away, Snake. Once you've been on the battlefield, tasted the exhilaration, the tension... it all becomes part of you. Once you've awakened the warrior within... it never sleeps again. You crave ever bigger tensions, ever bigger thrills. As a mercenary, I'd think you would have realized that by now. You care nothing for power, or money, or even sex. The only thing that satisfies your cravings is war! All I've done is give you a place for it. I've given you a reason to live.
Gee, what a nice guy! He doesn't want money or anything so that means he's not evil!
>Big Boss does this to give people who otherwise have no place a home and a purpose
That's what they think. What he's actually doing is manipulating them into his own image and bending them into his own interpretation of human nature.
I heard there was a lot of fun extras in Ground Zeroes.
something about beating the main story is only 10%
and base building (was kinda got boring when you wanted high ranking shit in Peace Walker and it was hard to find high level guys in anything but R&D because one mission gives 2 of them every time)
>From now on, call me Big Boss.
>Get Ground Zeroes as a Christmas gift on Steam from a bro
>Game bugged at launch, won't launch for a handful of users
>Patiently wait for a patch
>Beta update came out today, fixes issues
>DIRECTX11 IS REQUIRED FOR THIS GAME
I'm a fucking idiot and completely forgot. Life is suffering.
Lets put it this way.
Our presidents have OK'd some fucked up shit.
Does this make them evil? Does it discard everything they have done?
No. It means they are otherwise good people who have done some fucked up shit.
Now lets say someone is tired of the fucked up shit they have done, and does some equally fucked up shit in order to try and take them down? In the process though, this person rescues, takes care of, and saves victims of the presidents fucked up decisions.
Welcome to Metal Gear Solid.
There are no heroes, just old killers. Striving to do what they believe is right. Often times clashing to do so.
There is a reason why the ultimate evil of the series is a cold and calculating machine- it is the lack of the human element that makes it an antagonist. The only other character in the series that is legitimately evil is Volgin, and possibly now Skullface too.
>Call me Big Boss
>Rose, be sure to call him Raiden
>Okay. So what day is today, Jack?
Also, what day was it? I can never remember, even though I've played through the game twice.
The Pain is represented by the mask of spikes digging into it's head, The Sorrow in that it's a ghost, The Fear in that it's a scary ghost, The End as in it's hunting Snake down.
Man, I really love the entire MGS series, long cutscenes and all... but goddamn that specific cutscene was really pushing my limits of staying awake in-between gameplay segments.
Does Snake ever actually make this fucking face
No, Big Boss is bat shit insane and more or less despicable. Wanting to get rid of something else that's also despicable (so he can put his pet dream into action) doesn't change that.
>took in frank against his will and experimented on him for years
>grafted a suit onto his skin
>possibly created skull face
Paramedic a shit.
I didn't know Python used bullets in his hands, wore the exact same rubber suit as Volgin, and apparently warrants a big enough place in Snake's psyche to manifest himself as a vengeful ghost trying to murder him.
I don't understand the series' naming scheme
so mg1, mg2 are solid snake protagonist games, then mgs, mgs 4 are also solid snake as main char
why would you name the other ones metal gear SOLID?
legit question as i am confused
What the fuck made Big Boss so evil in Metal Gear anyway?
He was just doing the same shit we saw in Peace Walker and trying to obtain another Metal Gear so he could set up Outer Heaven as independent of nations and have the power to back it up.
Base Building is Phantom Pain. It is not present in Ground Zeroes. There are people in Ground Zeroes who you can extract that will join you in Phantom Pain though if you extracted them in Ground Zeroes.
Main story is only 10% but they kind of cheat to get that number. Getting S rank on missions increases percent completion, and doing different difficulties of the same stuff also counts towards completion.
Still there is enough variety to replay mission over and over again and still have fun.
In previous games, Tranqs where vastly more useful than anything else. Combined with rewards for non lethal and there was never a reason to use anything else. Now using tranq only and limiting yourself from using lethal weapons feels like a penalty or a limitation, as it should be.
He kidnapped a scientist and stole a formula that the world was depending on to fix the oil crisis. Literally everybody I know defending Big Boss never brings this part up.
I didn't feel that at all in Ground Zeroes.
If the Tranq pistol had degrading suppressor like the rifle then I'd agree with you but as it is it's extremely powerful
if you know how to aim
By the time of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Big Boss was looking to impose war on everyone to make sure he and others like him had a place in the world, as well as force humanity to confront what he felt was its true nature. He was projecting.
But yes, by the end of Peace Walker he's already in morally dubious territory.
Game is canon, though. Main story about mercenaries is canon, some minor things about it - aren't. There were Patriots, Campbell and Big Boss started doing his OH shit and the rest can be easily retconned (and probably will)
>Out of the ones I've played, 3 is my favorite in terms of both story and gameplay
>one of the missions in TPP will be to save Sniper Wolf
Ground Zeroes is empty game. It barely has any technology, it's short and replayability is worse than MGS2 Tanker chapter. Wait for TPP.
>Do you really think Big Boss was evil?
That's the problem though. He was supposed to be, but then he stopped being that.
And how did that even make sense? Big Boss wasn't on any high-profile missions, Snake Eater was a black op.
>There are people in Ground Zeroes who you can extract that will join you in Phantom Pain though if you extracted them in Ground Zeroes.
anyone I should look out for?
it's currently downloading
>konami sent a C&d notice to the metal gear remake project
>after inviting the project devs to share their progress and ideas and teasing them about possibly picking them up as an official team to do it.
What a bunch of fucking cunts am i right.
I think we have a different concept of what Evil is then.
For me, just because someone is shitty in some ways does not mean they are evil. Big Boss is certainly going to become an antagonist, but that doesnt mean he is evil. He certainly is going to do some fucked up shit, but that doesnt mean he is evil.
Evil is like Darth Vader, or the Joker, you know, what villains do.
Big Boss is not a villain though. He is an Antagonist.
But ultimately he is fighting for a good cause, with good reasons, and he treats people really fucking well.
And he is fighting against the ultimate evil, and had Big Boss won back in 1995 instead of getting his ass whooped by Snake, all of the bullshit that happened in MGS1, MGS2, and MGS4 never would have happened, because Big Boss would have taken care of the patriot problem before it went out of hand.
Then he would have stayed in the warzones of the world where he belonged, fighting for whatever side needed his help the most.
>There are people in Ground Zeroes who you can extract that will join you in Phantom Pain though if you extracted them in Ground Zeroes.
Anything else you can get in TPP from GZ? Like if you 100% the game?
Except for one thing- what was Big Bosses motive for doing so? Sure, we know what the patriots told Snake, but do we know the truth behind it all? Can we really trust anything snake was told by his superiors after the ending of MGS1 and all of MGS2?
His "good cause" is total war. That's his fucking cause. Systematic murder on a global scale without any purpose other than fulfilling his addictions to it and his projection of what he believes humanity to be. That's his endgame.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Big Boss is insane, killing people left and right because he feels like it, torturing them, having a fucking nuke. Tried to kill his own son, made children soldiers. What exactly makes him the good guy?
The fact that he wanted to be independent mercenary?
b-but that refers to "Venom Snake"
Even if you get perfect headshots every time, you will run out of ammo before half the base is sleeping. On Hard, the range to get a good headshot without having to adjust for ridiculous bullet drop is always within their vision cone length as well.
The fact that he's been pushed into each of his actions by the continued agency of the Patriots. The fact half this thread and most Metal Gear threads think he's actually a good guy.
>spend all of GZ killing American soldiers just doing their jobs.
>Breaking Paz and Chico out of prison not to save them, but because they know too much to be anywhere else but under his roof.
>Line spoken by Notacon: "Document destruction and hangar decontamination are complete."
He's already a villain. We're just seeing the story from his perspective.
To control the world's oil supply. Not to mention ZL was attacking nuclear facilities and stealing nuclear weapons.
The Patriots are the biggest group of Big Boss lovers in the series. They have no reason to shit on his image, he's doing that himself.
No, he wasn't pushed into things. His conversation with Snake in MG2 reveals that he was projecting his own addiction and existential failures.
Half this thread barely even knows what Metal Gear is about.
The "plot" of the metal gear games are just part of the aesthetics, and the purpose of all game mechanics are to more effectively deliver (read: immerse you into) aesthetics.
The more you know.
>implying Kojima won't chicken out and make Big Boss into a misunderstood anti-hero all along
No, it really doesn't. It adds a feud with Zero into the fray, but Big Boss's end game remains the same. Peace Walker's ending speech backs this up. The entire series backs this up.
>big boss in mgs4 goes on a fucking hour long monologue on how he fucked up and misunderstood the boss' will and became evil
>the scene is about big boss' redemption
>everybody and their brother complains about the length and shit
>they turn around and shitpost on /v/ about how big boss is a good guy and cipher is satan
Gotta go fast. Bonus points system is broken, you get a lot of poinys just from being fast. You can kill people or raise alarms as long as you complete mission in a few minutes.
Oh right, patriots made him to create OH and MSF. Patriots tortured and killed everyone and threated the world with nukes. The patriots didnt even exist when he started acting like a faggot.
>bbut he's a good guy because he looks hot and tells funny jokes on codec
I bet you think Siegfried Muller or the rest of mercenary scum are good people too. After all it doesnt matter if they are maniacally killing people for fun as long as they have charisma, right?
No where is this ever stated or implied. At most he wanted a place where soldiers could be warriors. He doesnt want to drag civilians or uninvolved parties into shit.
He gets fucked up to the point where he believes salvation for those suffering in warzones and third world shit holes is to arm them and help them get revenge and fight as a soldier- but hes not going to fucking try to kill everyone on earth, are you fucking insane?
I bet you think Alexander the Great was totally fucking evil too right? The spartans? all evil assholes.
Fuck it, you know what? Pretty much all of society before the 1500s was just evil shit, right?
The way MGS4 puts it, OH and MSF are basically temper tantrums he throws because he doesn't like what the Patriots are doing to the world. The fact that Kojima throws in a bunch of yay-soldiers speeches afterwards doesn't really change that.
>always figured big boss was just some misunderstood hero or some shit
>play metal gear 2 for the first time
>find out big boss started a fucking war, stole nukes, and kidnapped a man so he could control the oil market
>big boss proceeds to go on a ten minute rant on the benefits of starting a war and raising children to become soldiers
>burns to death shouting at snake like an animal
What the fuck.
Yeah no way civilians could possibly get dragged into a world of global war. It isn't like the vast majority of wars fought past WW2 were centered on killing civilians that certain armed parties didn't like or anything! It is no way stated or implied that making the world into a playground for warriors would create murder on a global scale!
>Fuck it, you know what? Pretty much all of society before the 1500s was just evil shit, right?
>taking lines that are presented out of context at face value in a Kojima game
Cipher did nothing wrong. Everything went to shit after Big Boss made Zero lose faith in humanity, which led to the Big Shell Incident and the War Economy, which was a combination of BB and Zero's ideologies. Big Boss is technically the cause of MGS2 and 4.
Did you not see that he was played like a damn fiddle?
Just kidding, but he's a pretty bad dude. If none of you can understand that, you're kind of retarded/don't know about the lore. Liquid Snake basically had the same idea as what Big Boss has. Something happens to him that makes him think the fullness of life can only be achieved on the battlefield, so he tries to thrust the world into battle.
What he doesn't understand is that that's fucking insane.
I dont see in what kind of situation that phrase can be used for something good. Maybe Mother Base has it's own theatre and BB's hobby is acting, that's about it
It happened in the elevator when Otacon tells you about missingcamo.
Nigga, you have fucking lost it. Did you forget that Zero got hijacked out of his cozy role as leader of the patriots? The AIs took over sometime BEFORE George Sears became president- which means they were in power right after MG2. Who knows what effect Skullface had on the patriots or what trickery he has going on there, but we do know that Zero and Big Boss did have a bloody shadow war going on- that entire final act of cutscenes in MGS4 was dedicated to letting you know that. Remember the line "After all these years, I just want to know....Did Zero really hate me? Or....did he fear me?"
Now ask yourself why big boss would be saying this?
Right after he explained how Zero basically tried to take over the whole world and nearly succeeded if it werent for Big Boss fighting against him. But then no one could have predicted the AIs would mutate and become their own thing.
Big Boss knows all of this despite having woken up after all the shit already went down in MGS4.
This means only one thing- This stuff happened before Solid Snake took him out- Zero being subjugated by the AIs and the shadow war and all of that.
Oh, why would ZL attack nuclear facilities and steal nuclear weapons? Maybe in order to keep the Patriots from using them? How about the Oil Supply? making he was trying to choke the patriots out or resources? Maybe it was one step in a grand master plan to take them out?
You have strong confirmation bias going on- you have a set conclusion, and are going out of your way to interpret the information we have in a way that supports your conclusion.
>No where is this ever stated or implied
...Are you fucking serious right now?
>He doesnt want to drag civilians or uninvolved parties into shit.
And where do you think these warriors come from?
You might think that if someone hated Big Boss this means he was a good guy. What aboutt his own opinion where he wanted eternal war for him and his people to fight in?
>oh not that totally was justified because he wasnt like by some illuminati overlords
Fuck my pc keeps shutting off.
So when is Paz gonna get a nude model?
>From "FOX" Two Phantoms were Born
>FOX vs. XOF
>A Phantom Battle Waged by the Vanished
>implying there wont be two playable Snakes, one working for XOF/Skullface and they other with DD/MSF
neither of which will be voiced by the talentless hack Hayter
But Big Boss kept to the shit hole war zones, usually in the middle east or places already having wars. He had no reason to make make new wars, he had plenty. The only group he wants to start war with is Cipher, and once he takes them down he would go back to doing his robin hood in third world countries routine.
Yeah, Robin hood is evil too right, he was a part of a merry band of thieves after all.
And congratulations on admitting that you think the human race is just naturally evil shits and that any semblance of good has only emerged in the past couple hundred years because of control and government. Ironically, that means you fucking agree with your backwards interpretation of Big Bosses beliefs.
You must be projecting hard.
>What aboutt his own opinion where he wanted eternal war for him and his people to fight in?
Except in the recent games this has been softened to "I will take care of my soldiers and take them to wherever a war needs to be fought".
>Zero got hijacked out of his cozy role as leader of the patriots
There was no hijacking. Zero gave up on humanity so he handed over full control to JD and the other AIs and went into hiding.
>Big Boss knows all of this despite having woken up after all the shit already went down in MGS4.
Because Naomi explained everything to him in a video when he woke up from his coma. He even says that Naomi told him everything.
>"stealing the formula that will fix the oil crisis and stealing nukes is okay as long as i'm fighting the patriots"
Have you ever asked yourself what happens after The Patriots are destroyed and Big Boss wins? Most likely global Outer Heaven, which is bad for the people that don't want to take part in perpetual wars for no reason.
I really hope MGSV breaks him completely. I want to see Big Boss the tragic villain, not Big Boss the anti-hero or the well-intentioned extremist. I want him to become a demon and I'm not sure Kojima has the balls to do it, since it's taken him so many fucking games to get around to it.
>The Spartans are bad and evil
They weren't exactly nice. Neither were pirates.
But you're forgetting that Big Boss didn't want conflict as means to an end. For him it was the means AND the end. And he was bound and determined to ensure that he got it. To him, it was the only way to live. He even mocks Snake for believing that there's more to life.
I just want TPP to come out so all of these arguments over BB can fucking stop. Half of the people complaining obviously didn't play Metal Gear 2 and the other half are expecting him to be a horrible rapist baby eater.
>There was no hijacking. Zero gave up on humanity so he handed over full control to JD and the other AIs and went into hiding.
BB literally said that no one expected the AI to mutate and have a mind of its own. This was the moment the AIs usurped Zeroes Will.
>Because Naomi explained everything to him in a video when he woke up from his coma. He even says that Naomi told him everything.
Naomi was able to predict and tell him specific details about what happened after her death? Naomi also knew the darkest secrets and specifics of Zero and his proxy AIs, as opposed to the dude that once a part of Patriots, and then later thought war against them, and specifically against Zero?
>Have you ever asked yourself what happens after The Patriots are destroyed and Big Boss wins? Most likely global Outer Heaven, which is bad for the people that don't want to take part in perpetual wars for no reason.
I really have no idea why you think he would make outer heaven global. There will always be war, an he always seemed more or less content fucking with shit holes like afghanistan and africa. Endless conflict and war is already there in those places, ripe for him to fight in.
What makes you think he wants Global Outer Heaven. He wants a place for soldiers and warriors, not to make every person into a soldier and a warrior, and this is where I see a leap in logic you are making to keep your point of view.
>comparing ideologies and morals of modern society and almost 3 thousand old country
And that analogy with POTC movie is pretty stupid. There is a group of people who are protagonists and good. They have high morals and shit, they only fight for love/people/whatever. And there are people like Barbossa and the rest who arent portrayed like nice people at all. Charismatic people are featured in every potc movie, but they arent exactly good. Do you think Jack is good guy? Same as Big Boss, he's likable protagonist, but that doesnt mean he's a good person just because he loves puppies and Ocelot.
I never said they were paragons of virtue or that they were nice. I merely said that they werent EVIL.
>But you're forgetting that Big Boss didn't want conflict as means to an end. For him it was the means AND the end. And he was bound and determined to ensure that he got it. To him, it was the only way to live. He even mocks Snake for believing that there's more to life.
Yes, and that is core to his fall as a person. But that doesnt make him evil. It just makes him tragic.
The fact he was looking to impose his will on the world is what makes him villainous.
Big Boss admits as much after his Power Point presentation. Then he lights a Cuban and dies.
>BB literally said that no one expected the AI to mutate and have a mind of its own. This was the moment the AIs usurped Zeroes Will.
They usurped his will but there was never any hostile takeover. Zero got the idea of machines ruling the world from Coldman so he applied it after Big Boss went apeshit.
>Naomi was able to predict and tell him specific details about what happened after her death?
Naomi explained to him everything that happened over the course of his coma and was the one who convinced him to find Snake. Naomi figured that if Snake was still alive after the insurrection he'd be trying to kill himself and she didn't want that to happen.
>I really have no idea why you think he would make outer heaven global.
Because both Liquid and Ocelot want to try and make a world of perpetual war. Liquid/Ocelot even says that Big Boss' will is complete when he thought he won.
>TPP will be some idiot's first MG game
All of this is nice...but...
TPP is going to bridge the gap between peace walker and Metal Gear 1, thus making a single, continuous timeline from MGS3 to MGS4.
What else can kojima do with the series? What's going to happen to my favorite series ;_;
I don't know, I think it's pretty cool seeing a slow transformation from hero to villain like this. In most games/movies/whatever, you suddenly find out that a character has been bad all along, or there's one single event that causes the change. It's more effective and believable when you can see the gradual build-up of cynicism and questionable behavior.
Really? Jack Sparrow has morals? Nigga steals and backstabs and leaves people to die and everything else. But it doesnt mean he is evil. Why does everything on /v/ have to be so fucking black and white? Its either good or evil with you faggots. You guys cant have shades of gray, it overloads your fucking minds.
Either something after 4 or before 3 or God forbid my 1 and 2 remakes. Maybe with info about the inner machinations of the Patriots and and military in between.
My problem with mg remakes is there's no ocelot and I can't see them doing a new game without him.
The thing is that it robs him of much of his agency in the process. He would have been a petty mercenary if it weren't for the Patriots relentlessly pushing him into greater lunacy.
>the boss in MGS3 was a legend
>the way people talked about her being a bad ass in WWII was awesome
>peace walker comes around
>the mysticism of the boss is ruined after strangedyke goes on a 20 minute explanation of her life story
>now people are clamoring for a cobra unit prequel that'll inevitably ruin the cobras and boss
It's time to stop you guys
>What's going to happen to my favorite series ;_;
Remake of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2.
Re-release of other games on other systems.
Metal Gear Rising 2.
WW2 The Boss game.
Side story games about Solid Snake that have little effect on the greater plot.
No one is arguing for black and white morality.
We're saying that Big Boss is very clearly over the line by most standards. The same way people would say Osama bin Laden was, or Kim Il Sung, or Mussolini.
Revengeance sequel where you play as Ocelot. There's a bullet time feature where everything goes slow mo and you can fire unlimited shots that can take down buildings and shit. You can blow tons of holes in enemies.
Fucking this. The ending to MGS3 is so fucking perfect but the prequels just end up shitting all over it.
>big boss gets systematically fucked over by the US, russia, and china in one week
>that emotionless face and hundred yard stare he has
>his unwillingness to shake the president and the director's hands
>he flat out ignores zero and the others
What more of a fucking explanation do you need
more like your idiot fucking paraplegic intel lead defected to the bad guys because he's a beta and scheduled an appointment with "UN" without telling you
i'm glad huey gets the shit beat out of him as a result, 9 years later.
emmerichs are scum and they're always fucking making metal gears for the patriots. when will those fuckers learn to stop? jesus fucking christ
The only thing wrong is that it leaves him no time to become a famous American hero, because he's only been on the one op, an assassination of a rogue agent. Should have skipped MSF entirely (it's a bizarre proto-Outer Heaven) and done more missions for the government/fledgling Patriots instead.
Why do you guys want Big boss to become some kind of hero in TPP?
For once we have a villain that has been fleshed out for years and years and you want him to turn into your generic good guy?
We're getting into pretty bad territory with Boss. Child soldiers are implied in TPP and he trained them in the MG games.
For fuck sake, he's the leader of a mercenary organization that responds to no one, gets into conflicts for the sake of it, has nobody to control it and will probably have nuclear capabilities in the future.
Plus we all fucking know what happens with Big Boss thanks to the MG games. It's just a matter of how much they will change with the eventual retcon
But i want him to remain a villain
He gets shot to death in the early Phantom Pain trailer and then reappears next to Big Boss. Unless Solidus is a ghost or Solidus made a clone of himself I don't see how that can happen
I'm playing Peace Walker right now so I can finally play GZ.
How the fuck do I unlock the ZEKE fight? I've completed the Zadornov missions 1-6. My team levels are as follows:
Mess Hall 38
All main parts and Railgun acquired for ZEKE, I even sent it out in an Outer Ops mission once and after that team came back I removed it from the team so it's sitting in the hanger.
All this, and yet Miller still hasn't called me to tell me that Zadornov has escaped for a 7th and final time. Motherbase has two hexagon shapes and a third under construction.
What the hell am I not doing?
When MGS3 was made, Kojima didn't have MGS4 or PW in mind.
Big Boss would have presumably stayed under the employment of the U.S. government as a cover while he slowly built up and established the threat Solid Snake ends up dealing with.
All I ever said was that he wasnt evil, that he was in a gray zone where one side would see him as the hero they deserve, and the other side sees him as a demon.
It just so happens that the side that sees him as a demon is the one controlled by an information manipulating illuminati group.
that was fucking retarded
>Snake watching a bunch of unmarked XOF helicopters taking off
>"The UN should be on their way to mother base now"
Were you not even curious as to where those fuckers were going
I've read from various places that you have to be Big Boss. I checked with a random other character just in case but no dice. I can't think of a single thing I haven't done at this point, I'm fixing to just download a completed save of the game but I'd hate to do that since there must be SOMETHING I'm missing.
Hayter should never have been Naked Snake to begin with.
Hayter sucks shit anyway after MGS3. He sounds like the Microsoft text-to-speech voice with a gravel filter and added growls.
>the side being controlled by the patriot AIs
>Caring about human life
>having voluntary action that isnt manipulated and controlled
hahaha, made me laugh. I cant believe it took you to go this far to make me realize you are trolling. 9/10, you dragged me along for a while, you should have ended with a better punchline though.
Why the fuck does the combat suck shit in every MGS game?
>inb4 muh stealth
Fuck off faggot not everyone wants to spend hours sneaking around all the time, you're supposed to be a fucking super soldier, so why can't you play as one?
This is why MGR will always be the best Metal Gear game.
Kojima doesn't have the balls to have Big Boss actually turn into an evil character. He's gonna make up some bullshit about the evil Big Boss being some sort of decoy set up by the patriots or whatever. You know it.
>being so butthurt you literally proved yourself wrong you resort to projction
Holy shit, anon, get it together. It's funny because I was going to link that very video as evidence that you were wrong, but you did it for me.
I'm adding more onto this because I'm butt flustered.
The prequels in Metal Gear are honestly starting to feel like the Star Wars prequels. The Star Wars prequels were completely fucking pointless. I can listen to Ben talk about the good old days and that's enough. Same with MGS3's ending. From that point on we know Big Boss is going to be the US's lapdog. Lyndon's shit eating face is basically telling Big Boss "i fucking own you now. you're going to be just like your mentor".
But instead of leaving Big Boss' story there and just leaving it alone Kojipro manged to shit out four games that show us "the missing link between MGS3 and metal gear 1!" but what it really is is Saturday morning cartoon shit that only ends up raping the canon a little more.
>Game is based around stealth
He's a fucking demon.
Big Boss may have been a shit head, but he was a heroic shit head who brought just as much light to people as he brought darkness to others. Its almost like those old greek heroes, who were indeed heroic but also complete shit heads.
But that's true, even then since he's the greatest he should be able to fuck shit up, even then if the game is supposed to be stealth-based then why have boss battles if it's going to have abysmal combat?
So fuck off, retards.
Cool things to do in Ground Zeroes? Just 100%'d . I've been trying to recreate this webm.
So far I've managed to get the jeep landed on top of the tower instead of hitting it. It was really cool, wish I've taken a screenshot.
>the tank from MGS 1
Fuck off retard, boss battles in an MGS game is a fucking retarded idea.
I mean Revolver Ocelot was
pretty goodsince the both of you were pretty much equal in attack methods apart from his ricocheting bullets and the level was just 4 short hallways that formed a square.
so what, what was Big Boss goal all along? to make world without borders? he wanted to make world in a constant war so soldiers will always have a place to live, something like that? if its the second one then yes Big Boss is a bad guy.
He's someone who haunts Big Boss's past. Kind of like PTSD or something. Psycho Mantis is confirmed to be raiding the hospital at the beginning of TPP when fire Volgin appears. So it's Psycho Mantis fucking with Big Boss's brain as he's waking up.
That's all the interest of TPP though anon
Something happened that turned Big Boss into the ruthless demon of MG2, and clearly it happened in TPP, and I think it was much more personnal than the attack on motherbase. It was probably something as traumatising as the end of MGS3 that made him snap.
Now, we know Ocelot and Miller survived the events of TPP. but somebody very important to BB is gonna die in the worst way possible, I'm sure of it
I haven't seen anyone bring this up lately, but won't the fact that TPP is coming out on 360/PS3 compromise the game design somewhat? The game's not going to be as seamless as it could be; the old hardware is going to hold it back
H-he can still love anon
I want to believe
>>the boss loved the sorrow
>>she shot him in the face and he fell off a bridge
>>the boss loved snake
>>she threw him off a bridge
>snake loved the boss
>he shot her in the face
Have they talked about how long the game is going to be?
I think it'll be a detriment to the whole base building and all the other development if there's not more ingame playtime than the other games.
Fuck me this is hard. Both are waifu-tier
It's obviously Psycho Mantis. The way he wears a mask and rises up the elevator with his arms up is 1:1 to the way he does it in MGS1. Psycho Mantis makes illusions and the hospital scene is a giant illusion fucking with Big Boss. The soldiers firing at him, the whale, volgin, etc.
>It's obviously Psycho Mantis
While I don't disagree that it's probably baby Mantis, just saying it's "obvious" doesn't mean it's confirmed by any official source, just an FYI.
>age fits in with the timeline
Is there a VaatiVidya style series explaining this series's lore? I keep thinking I've got it and then I lose it.
The boss was the chick in MGS3, then the boss was Snake from MGS3 whose also the guy we're
allegedlyplaying as in V/PP. Is the war hero boss the chick or snake? When does boss become a war hero exactly?
More like mid-thirties. Makes sense
More clues about Mantis: after he left his village he started working for the KGB and only worked for the FBI when the soviet union collapsed.
And as we all know 1984 was the heights of the afghan war (at least one part of TPP takes place in Afghanistan), which the soviets had a huge hand in. My guess is Mantis was out in the field to lead some kind of proxy war as part of a special KGB unit. That's how he'll meet BB. It's also possible that it's in this context that BB joins up with Skullface: Skull Face/XOF/CIA pays him big bucks to root out the soviet operatives. It just so happens that SF has a score to settle with a kid that burned his village back in Hungary and Big Boss doesn't know about it
It's not hard
The Boss was a woman and a war hero in World War 2 with her Cobra Unit. After the events of MGS3, Naked Snake is given the title Big Boss to show his superiority over the boss. He rejects it, but MSF still calls him Boss for short, until the end of Peace Walker, when he embraces the name.
Both of them are War Heroes in different ways.
Soviets had a lot of pressence in Africa too at that time. Also, there's the thing that russians used camp Omega too and asked questions from Big Bosses employee and probably Chico with Paz too.
>end of Phantom Pain
>Bad Boss wraps up everything he needed to do, credits roll, fade to black
>Phantom Pain logo fades in on a black background
>sounds of being underwater, just some muffled swooshing noises as someone starts swimming
>another sound, this time of someone emerging from the water and taking a breath of air
>a quiet thud of someone grabbing on to a wooden crate
>suddenly the codec sound starts playing
>Kiefer starts speaking
>"This is Big Boss; Operation: Intrude N-3-1-3. Your mission is to penetrate Outer Heaven, and destroy the ultimate weapon."
>Metal Gear 1 + 2 Remake confirmed for 2017
Sorry if this is asking too much, but can someone explain what exactly went down with The Boss in Peace Walker? The cutscenes bored me a fair bit and I wasn't following that well. Just a quick summary would be very appreciated.
What exactly did Strangelove reveal?
Kind of. The sites list completionist times as:
Take out Peacewalker and the games seem to average 25 to 100%. Leave it in and the average 100% is only around 33 hours.
Did everyone forget about the Boss? She is literally all that Big Boss wanted to be before he got lost in his need for vengence.
Big Boss wanted a world where solders were always needed and then in MGS4 he said he fought to free the world from Zero's system. I'm getting mixed signals here
If we can it'll be as a double agent, because Mantis doesn't leave the KGB for the FBI before 91 and he only joined FOXHOUND after a psychic accident working with the FBI in 2000. But I doubt even Kojima would go that far.
My theory is that Volgin didn't raid the hospital to kill Big Boss: he did it to enlist psycho mantis in his new kickass KGB unit (assuming Mantis was interned in the hospital) and THEN he learned that BB was there and decided to go on a rampage