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So, do we all agree that the fags who think...
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So, do we all agree that the fags who think Smash 4 is the best in the series just haven't played Melee or are too casual?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AhkPaHUh0A
>>
>Melee is the best because I've spent months learning how to exploit glitches, and if I go to an updated game, the glitches will have been fixed and I won't have them to use as a crutch
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>>272613230

Tourneyfags BTFO
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>>272613230
yeah, so?
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>>272613404
It's the same thing with Dota and LoL
>>
who the fuck cares if they think it's the best in the series you codependent faggot ass motherfucking son of transvestite insecure piece of shit like your fucking self esteem is tied to whether or not someone thinks some game you don't like is better than a game you do like, you're the definition of a turdlicking douchebag loser holy fucking christ get over it
>>
Opinions time!
Melee is the most technical game I've ever played. Brawl is the least fun. Project M is my favorite and I'm pretty okay at it. I think Smash 4 is probably the 'best' in the series even though I don't like it much, because it does a pretty fine job walking the line between technical and accessible.
>>
>>272613230
There are virtually no glitches that effect common gameplay.
>>
I actually want to play a game that's actually visually impressive and you win based on how skilled you are, and not how much time you wasted memorizing what series of buttons to press and getting used to the shitty, broken engine
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I enjoy Smash 4 more than Melee.
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>>272613097
>Le casual
Shitbags like you ruin gaming. Who gives a flying fucking fuck about what version of SSB people play. Get over it Giga Nerd
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>>272613230
>>272613883
>mfw Sakurai knew about wavedashing during the development of melee
http://smashboards.com/threads/dispute-ended-new-sakurai-intervew-wavedashing-was-intentional.162416/

>mfw L-canceling came from an official game mechanic in smashbros on the 64.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/L-canceling

>mfw even without all the tech, it's still has the best gameplay due to fast run speeds and momentum is carried over in jumps

>mfw you blame your lack of skill on glitches
>>
too old with a career and bills to deal spending so many hours on a single game. Im lucky to spend one day a week with my friends playing video games much less Smash Bros. in a few years some will have kids and disappear from the gathering. fuck man...

besides, melee ain't got no Little Mac.
>>
>>272613883
You talk a lot about what you so obviously know nothing about.
>>
>>272614163
Should've become a neet, anon.
>>
>>272613883
You've obviously never played melee. You are exactly what this post is talking about.
>>
I really don't care about Melee that much when I play it, considering that I'll probably never reach that level of gud and I've got nobody to play against, anyways. So personally, I enjoy Smash 4 more. It's enough depth and speed for a casual like me, and it offers a lot of content.

Brawl is still a piece of shit, though. And I admit Melee is the better-designed game in terms of gameplay. Also, I've yet to try Project M, but since then I've lost my Brawl disc. Personally, it seems like the best possible version of Smash to me.
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>>272613097
>spacefurries
>"CHECK OUT REDDIT.COM" literally the first thing you hear

kill yourself smashfag
>>
>>272614550
Why do you think he chose that video? Read the first post. This is such an obvious troll thread.
>>
i really want to like 4 but damn its too much like brawl. Defense is still too strong and rush down pressure is easily punished. project m is a godsend for brawl and hopefully one day 4 will get its version.
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>>272614145
Granted, momentum is something that would be nice to have in the later games, but tell me something: what does L-cancelling add? Is it a situational technique? No, it's something you should be doing at all times. So why didn't they just cut the landing lag for aerials?
And wavedashing. Just what does it add? You slide a little on the ground. Is that result worth the amount of time people have to put in to master it on different stages, with it being harder to do with some characters than others? Fuck no.
People might say those techs "raise the skill ceiling", but they really just raise the skill floor, by adding unintuitive and obtuse processes that players are forced to learn to be considered skilled at even the most basic level
>>
>>272614804
They've worked so long on PM, I doubt there will be one for 4 anytime soon.
>>
Smash 4 is fun but Melee still da best

10 MORE YEARS
>>
>>272615405

That anon was just pointing out how l-canceling was an official tech. Nothing about whether it belongs in the game or not.

Personally, I like what they did with landing lag in Smash 4. Certain moves auto-cancel, some have a little lag, some have a lot. It's a good compromise.

Momentum needs to fucking happen though. I can't imagine it'd be hard to patch in either.
>>
>>272613097
I just want a decent Smash thread, why do you always have to cause shitstorms between fans of different games?
Melee has the better gameplay overall but Smash 4 WiiU is the best experience casual-wise, which is what Smash was made for
>>
>>272613097
I understand why casuals like the new Smash games but I don't understand all these faggots obsessed with Smash 4 tourneys and For Glory. If you're going to take a Smash game seriously why not just play Melee or Project M, there's no reason not to unless you're really obsessed with one of the newcomers for some reason
>>
>>272615405
I'll agree with you about L-Canceling, but you did not do wavedashing any justice. It's a slide that you can do anything during, improves the movement of the characters, helps out the slower characters, gives the player more movement options, and adds more depth to the game because of the previously mentioned things. Also, it's really not that hard to learn. Once you get it down for a character and know when to do it, you can do it without any extra thought. it just becomes anther move.
>>
>>272615946
There also needs to be some kind of grab you can start as you're landing. It would be the best way to counter people who shield your aerials then grab you immediately after
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>>272615405
Yes, the technical requirement to play this game competitively is very high. Wavedashing adds freedom of movement. Wait until you learn how hard perfect wavedashing is.

And just remember. No matter how hard the technical aspect of this game gets, the mental game is so much harder.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSd8RscI8cw
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>>272616456
>shieldrollrollrollrollshieldroll
>same uptilt bair autocombo over and over again with Pikachu
Dropped after the first minute
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>>272616667
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhlH3QynVU
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>>272616667
Bread and butter.
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>>272616434
What I'm saying is why do we have to make the technical aspect so overcomplicated and difficult to master, when the real skill and actually entertaining to watch stuff come from the mind games and mental acuity? The mechanics of the game should be as simple as possible so there isn't any unnecessarily high barrier of entry for tournament play.
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>>272616710
That entire match was pretty gud
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>>272616710

Shit that last minute was tense.
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>>272613097
I really do like non-Melee smash games. They're more fun to play and the competitive scene is usually more interesting to watch, although to be fair at the highest tiers of play you still get the same sort of problems.

My problem with Melee and Project M is that the same kinds of strategies are what's being used by all players and all characters. Wavedashing, safe moves, edge-hogging, characters are considered good because of how fast they can respond after severe attacks and how responsive they are to specific tactics. It's dull. It also fosters bad habits in the "semi-pro" tier of player, who knows about these high value playstyles but hasn't mastered them yet, hence why so many tourneys were dominated by Fox v Fox Final Destination.

Smash 4 is fun on a more competitive level because they nerfed the fuck out of everything, meaning that the abilities that were super-powerful are now just as good as the shit that everyone else had to deal with. Edge-hogging is gone, Wavedashing is gone, cancelling is gone, and on one hand that does slow play down considerably, but on the other hand it makes the game play more as intended and as advertised. It allows for more strategies to exist because the Top Tier strategies simply aren't there anymore, forcing people to either find the new Top Tier (Which, as those players are clinging to Melee, has been very slow in going) or to adopt a more versatile strategy.

When shit like Rosalina and Duck Hunt Dog is being called the more powerful characters in the game, you know that it's a radical shift in tone to how the game used to be played - Zoning and harassment characters used to be easily shut down by fast-paced melee brawlers, but the ability to shut down 90% of Smash Bros.' strategies has been severely nerfed.

That, to me, is far more fascinating and fun to play against and watch. And it's not like old strategies aren't still available, they simply are not as ever-present and effective in EVERY situation now.
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>>272617332
This thinking is the reason modern gaming is such shit.
I like melee for the very reason that it's difficult.
>>
>>272616181
>helps out the slower characters
Ehh, really though? Ganondorf is the only sluggish character who has a somewhat useable wavedash.
Helps Luigi though, he sure as hell would be a lot less viable if he didn't have that insane wavedash
>>
So to those of you who think smash is just a party game, what do you think when you see the video in the op? What makes this seem so simple to you that it can't compare to a traditional fighting game?
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but melee is old
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>>272616214
In melee, if your fast enough, you can L-cancel your aerial and as soon as the lag ends grab your opponent. That all depends on the aerial, grab length of your opponent, and you and your opponents movement during the shield stun/hitlag.
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>>272617523
You have autism.
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>>272617845
No he just doesn't want his hand held through playing a fighting game.
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>>272617487
YES. Thank you anon. You've basically put my thoughts into words better than I've been trying to do
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>>272617984
but he's not playing a fighting game!
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>>272617487
>Fast complex techniques that allow you any combo you want, and freedom of movement are dull
>Smash 4 is better because its simple and easier to pick up

Well I'll agree that it's easier to pick up, but that doesn't make it better than Melee.

If you think simplifying the elements of the game will make for more interesting gameplay, we can wait and see how the competitive scene progresses. Because you can bet the tourneyfags are going to do whatever works best to win, and I wonder how entertaining that will be to watch.
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>>272614550
>"spacefurries"
>le back to reddit
>le he maymay
>autism just seeping through the screen

:^}
>>
>>272617845

the more complex a game is, generally means there's more mechanics, and more options. why would you want to be limited to simple core mechanics? masochism?
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>>272617845
Go play your interactive novels, faggot.
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>>272618031
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBTmUYLzY8g

I like watching these
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Boy is this thread a shitshow
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>>272617487
I don't think you know what competitive melee is about, or attended a tournament.

>>272617557 Ganondorf and Falco benefit a lot from wave dashing. I can't think of any other slow characters worth using.
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>>272617487
>They're more fun to play and the competitive scene is usually more interesting to watch
How? From a spectator's standpoint I'd have way more fun watching insanse cuhrazy combos against a Falcon and Fox rather than "zoning" for 6 minutes between Palutena and Villager
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>>272613230
>melee relies on glitches!
why do people still say this? Sometimes I think that /v/ isn't THAT ignorant and stupid, but then I always see comments like this.
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>>272613097

http://i.4cdn.org/f/falcoooooooooo.swf
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>>272618216
Don't get me wrong, I like Smash 4, I like watching it. I just wonder how the mental game is going to progress over the next couple years. This shit is literally not even out yet on the Wii U, how anyone can argue that Smash 4's competitive play is already better than Melee's is beyond me.
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>>272618535
I'm not saying it's better, I just think it has a good start so far. I'm waiting to see how it does at Apex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYH5whbGFGc
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>>272618446
/v/ has several casual elitists that parrot their memes in every Melee thread
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>>272613097
>Why don't people prefer muh 13 year old game!?
>posts the most broken move in the game
Because Melee is too fast, based around touch of death combos and skating around like a retard, and almost as unbalanced as Brawl. Smash 4 is the most balanced in the series and more fun to play in every way.
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>>272618619
I agree, it's shaping up great. I'm hyped for Apex now, it's only a little over a month away.
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>>272617332

I know it's hard because you aren't use to thinking very fast but this is happening every single microsecond in high level Melee, even during combos. The technical barrier isn't any more prohibitive than in "real" fighting games. You sound like you would enjoy Hearthstone.
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>>272618881
2 months. Shit. Well, never mind, my hype is dead.
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>>272617332

Hbox got to EVO 2014 Grand FInals with JIGGLYPUFF. The technical barrier isn't as tough as you think
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so we can all agree that people who don't think brawl is the best series don't play captain falcon/ganondorf and don't play with items on right?
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>>272616710
I'm going to be let down when the average Smash 4 match isn't as good as this one.
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>>272618821
PAL dair was way more balanced, it only spiked in the beginning.
I also dont get why they had spikes and meteors when most meteors were harder to land than spikes, but you can't meteor-cancel spikes
>complaining about a game being "too faced" and thinking all combos lead to death
you retard
>>
I recently replayed Melee, and other than figuring out how ridiculously shit I'd gotten after not touching the game in forever, I also got to remember just how fast it really was.

Almost 2fast4me, but that's just lack of practice, honestly.
I'm really excited for Smash4. I still have Melee, but I don't think I'm going to get back into it. I'd rather learn the new meta that 4 is gonna have rather than mish mash the game styles. It was painful enough playing Brawl right after replaying Melee. My biggest joy about Smash4 is that even if it's not as fast as Melee, it's way faster than Brawl is.
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>>272619134

Tiers are definitely real. Falcon has to work sooo much harder than Fox does in that match up.
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>>272618623
the fuck is a casual elitist? How can one be elitist about having less to work with? It sounds asinine.
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>>272619134
Melee at a high level looks like Marvel 2, but with less control. it's wonky as fuck. Smash 4 at high level looks like Super Smash Bros at a high level. That's what Smash Bros should be.
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>>272618881
Fuck apex the TO lied out his asshole and takes dick.
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>>272619268
I guess you havent been to Smash threads much. Yeah they exist, it's pathetic. They think they're better because they play "the way it was intended" or whatever
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>>272619268
They aren't good at video games, but still want to be proud of their gaming ability. So they shit on other people.
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>>272619134
Wow, that's some bullshit. Fucking Melee and it's shit balance.
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>>272619532
The game was made in 12 months unfortunately almost no testing went into character balance.
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>>272619454
The sad thing is this can be applied to both Meleefags and Smash4fags.

But at the end of the day we're all just retards smashing our thumbs on pieces of plastic.
>>
>>272619454
for being... better?

>>272619372
Yeah I haven't been on nearly as much this past year. I'm used to seeing this kind of treatment, but there's a point where being elitist because you play it a certain "way" as opposed to being skilled with what the game has given you to work with that I'd expect them to at least have SOME introspection.
>>
>>272619532

Falcon aint bad. That particular webm just showcased his weakness - Shitty Recovery
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>>272618962
First of all, check your quick reflex privilege
Secondly, I think the technical barrier for one-on-one fighters is stupid too
Third, Hearthstone is shit and so is you're waifu
>>
>>272619125
The average Smash 4 match will be casuals online, because more than just tourneyguys play it.
>>
I played Melee and liked Melee.

I like Smash 4 and will most likely move on to Smash 4
>>
>>272619637
Well yeah, gaming is a loser hobby.
>>
>>272613097
>click play
>check out reddi
>closed
>>
Smash 4 is the most accessible and the easiest to play at a higher level. Players can easily understand why they are getting beaten and do not have to learn a ton of complicated tricks to not be destroyed. This is great for 90% of smash players. Do tourneyfags really need another Melee when they already have 2 of them? It's a different game that offers a different experience.
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>>272619061
Puff is the character to use if you have no skill. Fuck that guy.
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>>272617487
tl;dr but that gif is fucking great
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>>272619532
Dumbass Falcon could have edgeguarded with any number of other moves and taken the stock. It's his fault for not finishing his food, but this does showcase how much easier Fox has it.
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>>272619926

It's just a different type of skill. hbox is one of the only players who can use puff correctly.
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>>272619908
>not liking technical skill no mater what game
>implying wavedash and l-cancelling are even complicated
>>
>>272619705
I know, but damn it's just really sad to see such obvious shortcomings. Falcon just can't do what the space animals and Pikachu can without a lot more work. I know badmouthing Smash 4 is the "cool" thing to do around here, but it really is the most balanced game in the series. No character just outright feels like they don't stand a chance, and none of them feel overwhelmingly good. Even Olimar and Yoshi can have a good fight, even if Yoshi's at the top and Olimar is at the bottom.
>>
>>272619808
It's at the peak of mainstream right now, but I welcome the day it becomes a full blown loser hobby again.

I hope normalfags move on to board games or PnP. It'll give /tg/ something to do.
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>>272619908
No we don't need another Melee, we already have Melee. They're not going to top themselves on that one.

The Smash 4 experience is a great one, it's so much better than brawl.
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>>272619134
There is a place for meteors and spikes. Spikes are better off stage, meteors are better on stage.
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>>272620008
Wavedashing is incredibly input-precise, and l-cancelling is both unnecessary and tricky to pull of.
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>>272618821

64 had more touch of death combos than Melee ever had.
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>>272619908
As an avid Melee fan, I am actually excited and hope the Sm4sh scene gets big.
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>>272619975
Like what? What could he have done?
>>
Meh. Those who like 4 or Brawl more than Melee just like it because for them, they will never reach that level, so the games are practically similar - but with a lot more content.

I'm included in that part. I'm not gonna study Melee for a thousand hours just so I can beat CPUs harder. So I like 4 more because it has twice as many characters and fluff.

That said, I'd never even consider wasting my time watching a Smash4 tournament, but I enjoy watching competitive Melee a lot.

tl;dr objectively if you can reach that level, Melee >all
for the rest of us, newer = better
>>
>>272620134
I know. Doesn't change what I said.
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>>272620008
artificial skill really
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>>272619532
Getting outplayed doesn't denote shit balance scrub

that webm is a case of git gud
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>>272613097
>So, do we all agree
Gonna stop you right there and say no.
>>
>>272617487
You know, I can totally feel that. Thing is, as nice as the new one is to look at now, it's very early to say that everyone is so viable. I think that, like Melee and Brawl, a standard will develop in tournaments. Things change a lot, I mean remember early tiers for Brawl? I remember Toon Link being bar-none TOP TIER for a little while.

In defense of what you said, at least with this iteration, Nintendo is FINALLY willing to patch the game. So we'll see changes to fine-tune it probably in a way you described.
>>
>>272619845
I'd recommend watching the set though. The reddit plug isncringy though.
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>>272620014

There are plenty of low tier characters in smash 4.

Smash 4 definitely has better balance, only 8ish viable characters for melee, probably 18+ for 4.
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>>272619975
Well said.
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>>272620193

Bair
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>>272618425
fucking this
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>>272620193
Not who you replied to, but first thought I had was short-hop fast fall to the right of him during his up-b and land a clean b-air maybe?

Maybe a followup dair while fox was charging? He can dair through that, right?
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>>272615946
Autocancels are in every smash game.

Smash 4 has WAY too much landing lag on aerial attacks.
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>>272619716
>check your quick reflex privilege

Why do you even game?

>Hearthstone is shit and so is you're waifu
>you are waifu

ok

>>272620118
Wavedashing is precise, but why shouldn't precision be an outcome determining factor in a game? I agree that L-canceling is a bad mechanic and should be replaced by autocanceling.
>>
>>272620193
He could have not fallen off the edge and let his opponent recover. Or just bair. Also he could have not jumped in with a knee after getting back thrown of the stage, way too risky, not enough potential reward.

He might have even been able to just grab the ledge after the second dair. At the worst it would put him into a situation where the Fox either DI's onto the stage and has to eat a knee, or can risk going for the ledge with the Falcon already on it.
>>
>>272620356

I'm liking the fact that so far, they don't seem to be too drastic with the changes. Ike got a huge blanket of buffs and there's no more vectoring, but most characters seem to have gotten relatively few nerfs or buffs.
>>
I thinkt he thing with Melee is that you need to become really good at it to see how good/enjoyable it is and to enjoy the competition, like with more traditional fighting games.

With Smash 4, it's not as free, but it's simpler and less punishing in terms of going out and doing something crazy, so it's just allows for more variety in terms of characters and attack strings.

Melee and PM are fun to watch for their speed and gracefulness in its techniques, especially if you know what's actually going on to appreciate it. Smash 4 is enjoyable to watch for the flashy moves that would be considered "styling" in the other games, but are just a regular element of that game, and for a more fresh character variety (which Project M can also provide)..

That's at least how I see it when watching those games.
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>>272620118

Uhh no? Are you serious? Wavedashing is easy once you get the hang of it and is almost necessary to learn for Samus if you want to bring your game up. L-cancelling has been around since 64 as well which also greatly sped up the game at higher level play.

You realize that there are tricks in almost every competitive game that speeds things up that were not necessarily intentional. Counter Strike has it as well for reloading the AWP as well as Halo with its shotgun/instant melee thing or whatever. I even knew shit in AVP2 that would give me an edge.
>>
>>272620274
That is not a real thing.
>>
>>272618821
> Smash 4 is the most balanced in the series
Wonder what the Meta Knight of Smash 4 will be.
>>
>>272620527
>>272620461
Sounds high risk, but it might have worked out. If he missed down there he would be fucked, though.

>>272620580
But a lot of aerials have no landing lag.

>>272618425
Zoning is part of fighting games. Get the fuck over it.
>>
>>272620808
Even if one is discovered, it will most likely be nerfed by Nintendy if they deem it too powerful.
>>
>>272620812

No, a bair standing on the edge. It would've knocked the Fox too far to recover.
>>
>>272620580
>Autocancels are in every smash game.

...no?
>>
>>272620193
At one point, taking the ledge at the right time may have worked. An on stage downward angled f-tilt, b-air after the first meteor cancel, or even any aerial besides d-air could have worked.
>>
>>272620693
>Wavedashing is easy
As someone who can do it just fine, no, it really isn't. it's second nature to me now, but it is an incredibly complex and precise input that shouldn't be part of Smash Bros, but is necessary for high-level Melee play for almost all of the viable characters.
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>>272620812
Well look how far doing what you thought was his only option got him, bro
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>>272613097
Why are we arguing about which game is better when we can just be talking about how fucking good TBH4 was? I can't wait for PPMD's return at Apex.
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>>272620264
It's not like touch of deathing in Melee is easy. It's feasible but difficult as fuck.

>>272620193
Take ledge, force Fox to recover onstage and reverse knee from the ledge with the invincibility frames; or wait for Fox to land and reverse knee the landing lag. He fucked up by committing offstage and forcing himself to recover.

When recovering he doublejumped to the ledge with a knee to cover that space with a hitbox but got outspaced by shine. Even if he didn't get shined, he'd be recovering under the stage and likely dead anyway so that knee ends up being high risk with variable reward. Falcon doublejumping back and up-b'ing high would've given him a recovery mixup coming down and at worst he'd have eaten some percentage instead of losing the stock.

Getting outplayed doesn't mean you get to cry about tiers.

git

gud
>>
>>272620885
They're in Melee and in Brawl.

The autocancel windows on many moves were decreased in smash 4 for many moves, like shorthop nair autocancel on marth is no longer a thing.
>>
>>272620885

Hello?
>>
>>272620961

I think the input itself is pretty easy. It feels kind of awkward for some characters though because of their jump squat.
>>
Melee is too janky and spasmy at high level play with all the awkward lag-cancelling techniques you have to practice to get to that level. Plus only the fast, hyperactive characters are any good.

But outside of that its physics is still mostly better than Smash 4 because 4 favours defense too strongly and virtually every form of approach is more risky/less rewarding than just hanging back and camping.
>>
>>272613097
>LOOK AT THIS AMAZING GAMEPLAY! AREN'T TOURNEYFAGS GREAT?
>that same tourneyfag cried to a referee because of a pause

it's like melee fanboys don't realize the reason we shit on the game is because of the terrible fanbase
>>
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>>272621025
Casuals got no imagination. The only limit you're going to find in melee is your own skill level.
>>
>>272621160
Yeah its really only hard with Fox and Falco, and if you're gonna be playing those characters you're gonna be putting some serious work into tech anyways.
>>
>>272613097
I dunno man, I kinda like being able to use Kirby and Zelda against everyone and not just using Falco, Fox, Falcon and Marth.
>>
>>272620812
Those aerials only have no landing lag within the autocancel window. The landing lag otherwise is like 22 frames or more on average.

This is not just significantly longer than an L canceled aerial from melee, it's longer than a non-L canceled aerial.

The landing lag is too high, especially relative to the low low amount of shield stun.
>>
>>272621225
Then shit on the fanbase, not the game.
>>
>>272618446
Because it's true. Does the level 9 AI use them? no. Because they are glitches.
>>
>>272621319
The best way to shit on the fanbase is to shit on the game.
>>
So, do we all agree that the fags who think Smash is a good series just haven't played an actual fighting game or are too casual?
>>
>>272621285

I always thought it'd be easier with them. I'm not sure why, wavedashing with Roy in Melee feels a bit weird because sometimes I do the input early and it won't register, but I have a bit of an easier time in PM.
>>
>>272621363
But you're only shitting on the tiny fraction of the fanbase on /v/. Why don't you go shit on the fanbase at reddit, or smashboards, or twitch or something?
>>
>>272621393
There's a 1 frame buffer that makes inputs slightly easier in PM.
>>
>>272621225
Pausing is a penalty that costs you a stock because:
1. It kills momentum/adrenaline, which is kind of shitty when you're in the middle of a match.
2. Actual faggots would abuse pausing to kill momentum or when something bad's happening to them.

Actual faggots I'm referring to are like the ones in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nagEuDMICYs

There's a reason why Smash 4 doesn't have pausing in online and why there's a setting to disable pausing. And also why Dota 2 gets a lot of shit for having a pause function that happens in a competitive game.
>>
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>>272621367
Yes anon, they need to play a REAL fighting game.
>>
Melee has good physics compared to Smash 4, but it is too technical at a high level. The advanced techniques are too awkward.

Smash 4 retains the simplicity but has poor physics which greatly favour defending and make doing pretty much anything that isn't shielding or rolling risky. Landing lag is so great that just going into the air against a grounded opponent is a stupid move for most characters.
>>
>>272621574

Yeah, I heard about something like that they couldn't get rid of. But yeah, it gets annoying because I'm the type to input things too early in Melee. I feel like I might have a bit of a better time with a character with a 3 frame jump squat.
>>
>>272613230
>exploit glitches
What if I don't wave dash and still say Melee is the best? I don't even know how to wave dash, I like Melee's physics.
>>
>>272621837
Are you using the wifi safe version of PM? The wifi safe version registers L and R inputs differently so it could be messing with your timing.
>>
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>>272620193
See how Fox recovers straight up like 3-4 times in a row so that the apex of his up-b is above the stage? That's when it would be easiest to knee him for the stock since the firefox hitbox would have ceased and he'd be in helpless state, but you don't even have to wait for the apex since a sweetspotted knee beats firefox. Alternatively you could do any of the other things mentioned. Falcon had a ton of options and chose the worst ones. You can't do that against top tier and expect to come out ahead.

>>272621353
Level 9's have been observed wavedashing
>>
>>272621225
exploiting tournament rules to your advantage when you can is nothing new in gaming, retard
you werent even there when pr balrog did the scummiest shit in marvel a while back
>>
>>272621951
explain?
>>
>>272621905

No, I'm using the regular version. I don't have the problem in PM, it's Melee that I usually end up jumping and don't get an aerial or wavedash to get out.
>>
>>272621367
>>272621367
do you even realize the analogues between "traditional fighters" and smash's mechanics? or even able to understand neutral game, spacing, positioning, footsies, conditioning, etc
>>
>>272622020
rog was gettin rocked in marvel and when he was put into the combo that would have finished him off pr rog got up to unplug his controller, the other dude paused and rog called over the TO to call him out on it and win the game
>>
>>272621052
Fox has no landing on his up-b. The rest is fine though.
>>
>>272622154
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r0efQrr-qI&t=10m50s
>>
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>>272613097
>I am unwilling to play a new and updated version of this game series because that would require putting effort into it again
>Instead I will demand that the community ignores the new game and only give the game I play a spot at tournaments
>>
>>272621285
It's hard for Fox, very easy for Falco.
>>
>>272621302
You forgot peach, shiek, ice climbers, and puff. Ganondorf, Doctor Mario, samus, luigi, and pikachu are all viable too in melee.
>>
>>272622445
Even though its slower I feel like Falco's is a very specific time compared to like marth where I can just input the buttons whenever and shiek where I just have to do it fast.
>>
>>272622371
>I am unwilling to play a new and inferior version of this game because it isn't worth my time and I can get even better at a better game

Altered to reflect real sentiments. Also, it's Melee TO's who are running Smash4 tourneys. It's not like y'all created your own scene overnight.
>>
>>272622619
>inferior
>I can get even better at a better game
>meleefags
>>
>>272613097
>Mango
Your bandwagon casual elitism is showing, faggot.
>>
>>272613230
/thread
>>
>>272621353
They also don't off stage edge guard, ledge hog, or utilize a characters best moves, but you'll probably find a stupid excuse for those too Lvl nines are just frame perfect, quickly reacting fighters.
>>
>>272622885
Ledge hoggers are grade A faggots, so they're good in that regard.
>>
>>272622291
Just came to this thread to say this is the lowest shit I have seen in a tourney, lower than marn rigging guilty gear and banishing it from evo. A fucking new low.
>>
>>272622371
Very little effort goes into learning smash 4. The problem is the game play is so bad compared to two of the past games.
>>
>>272622614
I guess I mean easy compared to fox.
>>
>>272623203
cool story bro

whatever, at least Nintendo will make sure Smash 4 will be at Evo
>>
So, gentlemen, what improved movement options could we add to Smash that retains the practical applications of wavedashing without the horribly stupid button inputs? Also, preferably without the weird slide-crouch and skid-dust animations, too.

Would we just make dashing better so that you can perform all your actions out of it? Anything else?
>>
>>272622787
How is mango related to casual elitism?
Do you just repeat stuff you've heard or couldn't think of anything better to say?
>>
>>272623338
a wavedashing button.
>>
>>272623338

I'd honestly be fine with dash dance being improved, and that's it. It was pretty great in 64 and Melee, but the Brawl and 4 versions kind of suck.
>>
>>272622985
>ugh, he only beat me because he's better at the game then I am.

>being this casual
>>
>>272623338

Can't really think of anything that wouldn't involve an additional button. Unless you repurposed one of the other buttons e.g. press shield while dashing to slide or whatever.

Smash 4 has bigger problems than a lack of wavedashing.
>>
>>272623550
Smash 4's ledge mechanics are objectively better than previous iterations. Stop being such a casual.
>Waaahhhhh, I can't get my anti-climactic, skilless kills anymore!
>>
>>272623338
the game just needs good movement in a usable dashdance
>>
One word: stages. This faux pandering to the competitive crowd is so fake it hurts. Instead of listening to feedback, Sakurai just listened to a meme and gave us final destination skins. The worst part is everyone flocks to these stages, I just want to play something more interesting then flat stage with no platforms. Hell, even tournyfags pick more then final destination. What's even more jarring is that my options are so limited for no nonsense stages. Want to have a bout with a friend without anything interupting your fight? Want a non walkoff stage? Enjoy your slim fucking pickings faggot. Prease pray my game how I want not rike dat. And yes I am 100% star platinum mad
>>
>>272623670
>thinking grabing the ledge is all you have to do to edge guard in melee

Confirmed person who has know idea what they are talking about.
>>
>>272624310
Japan uses pretty much FD exclusively in competitve Smash, so that's most likely why they added omega mode, not the "Fox ditto FD only" meme.
>>
Honest question smashfriends, but how come shields NEVER break? That's a whole mechanic that's missing except for maybe 64.
>>
>>272625024

Because generally you have to fuck up badly to let it break.
>>
>>272625024

Because when your shield breaks, you're pretty much dead. I'd like for shields to be a bit weaker though. Even if they were way too weak in 64, I liked how they broke at a decent size rather than being the size of a pincushion and still taking hits.
>>
After what we've seen of stages and almost all other non-roster content, I think I'd be pretty hard-pressed to find someone who genuinely believes that Smash 4 is the best in the series.
>>
>>272625024
Because people will either accidentally or intentionally poke through their opponents shield before it happens.
>>
>>272625754
I thought the same, but have you seen some of the replies in this thread?
>>
>>272625930
I thought it would be better not to read.
So I guess I was right to do that, huh?
>>
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>>272613097
>Falco vs Fox

Of course it's a Falco vs Fox video. The entire game revolves around those two characters. I'm sick and tired of Melee just because I don't want to fucking see these two anymore.
>>
>>272626291
spoken like a true retard who doesnt play melee
>>
>>272626437

Half this thread is about Fox. Whenever anyone posts anyone from Melee that's meant to be impressive, it's Fox and Falco. Nobody ever mentions anything but Fox and Falco. Do you think the Fox only meme came from nothing?
>>
>>272626562
because those are simply the most technical characters
thats like saying sf4 revolves around c viper
you realize the fox only no items final destination meme was created by the smash community right? then retards from outside the community think thats how the game is actually played
shiek is top tier and overplayed, not fox
>>
>>272626717
>because those are simply the most technical characters

That just tells me Melee has nothing resembling actually technical characters.
>>
>>272626770
so you dont play melee and are just shitposting? ok bye
>>
>>272626142
If you're into laughing at cringy stuff, it's worth a read. If not, you made the right choice.
>>
>>272626291
>doesn't play melee
>has no idea what he's talking about
>all his info is based off memes he doesn't understand
>>
L-cancelling aside (because that mechanic is stupid as fuck) Melee is the best in the series gameplay wise and if you ask me it had the last really memorable announcer in the series and Fox/Falco didn't look so fucking stupid.
>>
>>272613097
I care more about playing as my favorite characters than playing the "best" game.
>>
>>272613230
/thread


Aint no way in the fuck melee can top smash 4 custom settings for how you can play the game
>>
>>272613097
I'm glad there is still a big following for Melee and Project M, simply so those who strongly dislike Brawl, Smash 4, and all future Smash Bros games have something to fall back on to enjoy and have fun with instead of complaining that Sakurai didn't listen to you at the Q&A.
>>
Who is the worst playerbase in gaming and why is it smashfags?
>>
>>272630450
you're favorite game
>>
>>272629856

Customs moves are fantastic, I'm digging Ganondorf's.
>>
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>>272613097

Smash 64 fags = Massive nostalgia fags who think only the essential characters should be in the game

Melee fags = My serious fighting game is pure and everyone who doesn't enjoy it like I do should die of cancer

Brawl fags = Subspace emissary and Solid Snake where the best things in the Smash series ever.

Project M fags = It's an entirely original game built from the ground up by the worlds elite. Why hasn't Sakurai been hanged for making the same thing Project M team has.

Smash 4 fags = All these nostalgia fags, Smash 4 has the most characters therefore its better. Yeah there are clones but fuck you too, like King K.Rool was ever going to get in.
>>
>>272631078
>for not making the same thing the Project M team has

Is what I meant to say
>>
>>272613230
If you had a good understanding of melee, you would have some deeper intuition about spacing and timing in the other smash games
>>
>>272617684
People just say that to get a response from you kid, it's bait
>>
>>272613230
To me wavedashing makes sense you know, like when you airdodge in a direction carry some momentum with you in the air, it's perfectly logical that doing it into the ground or a platform conserves the momentum isn't it? All it makes you do is scoot a little. I mean momentum is carried into jumps (should be standard for platforming focused games) so I wouldn't call it a game breaking glitch to use the airdodge momentum to your advantage. Also if you want to talk about glitches how about smash4? Yoshi teleports? Wario's weird vectoring? Surviving a bowsercide?
>>
>>272631868

I don't think that surviving Bowsercides is a glitch, but it's still stupid as hell.
>>
>>272632021
I can't find the video but I know I've seen bowser literally shoot back up from the bottom of the stage after getting the kill, therefore keeping his stock, know idea how to pull it off though
>>
>>272632446

Must be something entirely different from what I was thinking of then. I have to see that.
>>
>>272626437
Not who you're replying to, but every fucking time I go to my local game shop for Smash nights, all but one or two TV's have Melee, and 90% of the matches are Fox/Fox, Fox/Falco or Falco/Falco. There's a Marth sprinkled in there sometimes, but otherwise it's just Fox and Falco. Fuck off with your shit.
>>
>>272619926

You sound salty as fuck man.
>>
>>272620808

>Shiek
>Rosalina
>DHD

That's all the ones I'm aware of.
>>
>>272636104
Tell us more anecdotal stories about locations where a single group of people gather repeatedly.
>>
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>tfw you love Melee and Smash 4
>tfw faggots always have an either/or mentality about it

I can fall asleep on niggas just as efficiently in both versions.
>>
>>272613097

No, I think it all comes down to different opinions. Melee is my favorite, but I can see how others would like Smash 4 better. To me, it all boils down to if you want content or gameplay. I think it sucks that Sakurai said, "you aren't supposed to be serious about this and good at this game" and continues to make inferior games from a gameplay standpoint. He's even called Melee the "sharpest" of them all. Not saying that Smash 4 or Brawl suck though.
>>
>>272626562

So I guess the pikachu and ice climbers webm's don't exist now?

People only talk about fox characters because they're the most prolific in the meta-game, it doesn't mean that they're the only good characters in melee though.

I mean fuck, look at Shiek.
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