Will Nintendo ever replace him with a competent, creative developer?

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>Liking SSE
>Crying about clones

Whine more, OP.

I don't think a story mode like SSE can ever really work well unless characters are given health instead of dying when knocked off screen.

>>267459272

They could turn it into a stamina/% combo. The platforming elements of smash could be really flexible if they fixed the physics. Like imagine sonic, mario, and dong platforming all in one game

does he even work for nintendo, specifically?

>SSE
That thing was boring as fuck and the only reason you want them are for the cutscenes, which tells me you don't really play games anyway, go away

SSB is a party game, not a fighting game.

>>267458909
>This is what autistic 10 years old retards actually say to fit in

>>267459923

meant for

>>267458909
>>267458989
>>267459272
>>267459808

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>>267458909
>look at this image
>for a split second Sakurai's face looked like Tameem's face to me
It was horrible, /v/.
Hold me.

Sakurai is the worst thing to ever happened to the Smash series.
Someone should kill him.

I'm serious. Nintendo will never fire him and he isn't going to stop until Smash is dead and forgotten.

>>267460946
Calm down and think rationally.
What's the worst the creator of Smash could do to Nintendo? He's got tons of other games he could work on.

I'm still shocked about some of the decisions him and his team made. Just saying. Some of them seem so obvious. Real bummer.

>fighting game

SSB is a party game, not a fighting game.

I really thought Sakurai was above comparing his games to food.

>>267458909
>implying smash would be alive without sakurai

>fighting game
Kill yourself

>>267462763
>>267462828
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/37684/super-smash-bros-developer-discussion-live-blog
>With brawl the players could set up everything, with freedom. But we learned that some folks team up or play differently, making it difficult for all to enjoy. There is a reporting system. As far as technical connection issues, we're still working on it. They use async communication in Mario Kart and other games to improve this, but that doesn't work well for fighting games. So there is cascading failure, especially for four players. That is why they ask people to have the best communication system available (eg a LAN adapter)
>fighting game

I've given this some thought, and while i think a smash game without Sakurai could be much better than what we have now, it could also end up being the opposite. It could be much worse.
That said, i suppose we wont get anywhere if we don't try.

I would like to see a Smash game made by someone other than Sakurai. That said, i don't agree with any of OP's reasons for why they should remove Sakurai, Smash isn't a fighting game, not a "pure" fighting game and it shouldn't try to be one, clones will never have unique movesets, if they did they wouldn't be clones so i don't know what you are trying to say, and who the fuck cares about a "campaign" mode in a game like this. In fact, one of the reasons i would want someone else to make Smash is because i would like them to stop wasting resources and time in useless modes that no one plays, or that people played once to unlock shit and then never touched them again.

I mostly think Sakurai is insane and his actions and decisions for smash are mostly biased, illogical and lack consistency.

>>267462949
Nope.
Doesnt matter what he calls it.

I love how people always get mad because smash is a fighting game

>>267458909
>Someone who knows how to give clones unique moves sets

You buffoon, if they had whole unique move sets they'd have to spend a lot more time on thre clones(balancing).

The clones were added because they could be done quickly with the last remaining dev time. It seems like you're the incompetent one.

>>267458909

You are a retard.

Sakurai is the best in the world at his job. You have no fucking conception of how much is owed to this guy and him alone, and you have no god damn clue about how game budgets work.

Name me another game even remotely like Smash that is good. You can't. Name a fighting game with over 50 characters and no clones. You damn well can't. Name any other fighting game with a campaign as fleshed-out as SSE. Nope.

You should be ashamed of your ignorance.

>>267463269
Not OP, but
>Name a fighting game with over 50 characters and no clones
Other fighting games having clones doesn't make clones acceptable to me.
Toon Link and Ganondorf deserve original movesets, Falco should have been cut instead of Wolf, and Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit should have just been alts.

>>267458909

Smash Bros is not meant to be a competitive fighting game

Every Smashfag who whines about balance and characters and what they don't like competitively seems to have completely forgotten that Smash Bros is NOT FOR YOU
SAKURAI DOES NOT LIKE YOU

>>267463569
I dont get why you'd prefer alts over clones.

>>267463680
>getting mad about people playing a game in a way you don't like

>>267463774
>muh slots

>>267463680
>Smash Bros is not meant to be a competitive fighting game
That's why Nintendo endorses smash tourneys and also hosts smash tourneys. That's also why For Glory exists and Sakurai calls tourneyfags the sharpest players.

>>267463821

No, I'm getting mad over people getting mad that Sakurai doesn't cater to them when he's gone on record saying the game is not made for those people. It's the most entitled shit I've ever seen

Nintendo just needs to let Bioware create the next smash. Itd be perfect.

emissary plays a lot like kirby, of course nobody can do that but sakurai

but they should replace him with someone who actually likes competitiveness once he quits (after wii u for sure)

>>267463912

They've made concessions with the latest instalment, if you're going to sit there and tell me Brawl or 64 was meant to be competitive, you're a fucking loon
Even MUH MELEE is only competitive with ridiculous rulesets and all of the higher level stuff comes from glitches
Just because they engage with the community, doesn't make Smash intended to be a legit fighter. They like money and they've found a market who will cry and whine but buy their product regardless and that's where that ends

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>>267464050
>glitches
Stopped reading there.

>>267463774
Less clutter and filler on the character selection screen. Available options would be more high quality in general.

And let me turn it around on you. Why want clones when by Sakurai's admission they are literally just alts turned into separate characters with gameplay tweaks so minor that they don't even require additional balancing to implement? How is that at all worth including to you?

>>267464050
>glitches
Do you have even a single fact to back that up?

>bake a cake
>people try to wear it as a hat
>complain when the cake doesn't make a good hat

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>Smash
>Fighting Game

>>267463958
>emissary plays a lot like kirby, of course nobody can do that but sakurai
What about all those Kirby games that play somewhat like Super Star that weren't made by Sakurai, like Return to Dream Land and Triple Deluxe?

>>267464282
>Less clutter and filler on the character selection screen. Available options would be more high quality in general.
Wow its fucking nothing.

Clones are still different from alts.
Even the most minor difference makes them a better deal than alts.

>>267464282
Simple changes like that can make playing the character a lot differently, which is interesting and fun.

I can't say much for Dark Pit, but I space a lot more as Marth and go in a lot more as Lucina.

>>267464181

Congrats, you named two things out of the many techniques used in competitive Melee, and one of them is just a glitch they noticed during development and left in

>>267459554

No he's freelance but he's butt buddies with Iwata.

A Nintendo dev would get his dick cut off if he said some of the shit Sakurai says.

something about middle to old aged japanese men going through all this effort to look like anime fairies just reeks to me, i feel embarrassed for them because i know they must feel like fools, having grown up in times when it was okay to be a man

>>267464181
I can't see that there's a clear-cut line that separates "glitches" from "clever use of intentionally programmed mechanics". Wavedashing was not intentional, it was just something they noticed you could do that they didn't edit the programming to fix, since it was a corner case.

Lots of glitches in video games result from how the game was programmed. It's programmed intentionally with certain usage in mind, but because it doesn't account for weird cases that weren't anticipated, strange things are possible that weren't intended. Wavedashing is this. The only difference is that it was noticed by the developers before release.

There's really no reason to argue that advanced melee mechanics aren't "glitches" anyway. It's all just semantics. It's a fact that they're part of the finished game, and if you don't use them to your advantage that's your problem.

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>>267460946

Edgy

This is what happens when you're completely autistic over a single game for 13 years, folks. Melee tards are approaching CWC levels.

>>267464705
>why can't meleefags stop being skilled and have fun like me!?

>>267464607
Wavedashing isn't really strange though, it's expected behavior that's being performed faster than most players would think to.

Is cancelling in SF2 a glitch?

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>>267464865
Combos were an unintended side effect of allowing slightly imperfect inputs for special attacks.

People loved it and they incorporated a combo counter into later versions of SF2. And pretty much every fighting game after.

>>267463569
I like how you retards consider Wolf and Lucas non-clones but somehow think TL and Ganondorf are.

>>267464438
>Wow its fucking nothing.
That's how I feel about the clones themselves. That's what they add to the game. Fucking nothing, except unnecessary clutter and the illusion that there are more characters than there actually are.

Let me take this to the extreme just for argument's sake.
Would you be happy if literally every single original character had a clone with only the most minor of differences taking up space on the character selection screen, so instead of a mere 48 characters on there, you had 93? Would you seriously consider this worthwhile?

>>267464865
>it's expected behavior that's being performed faster than most players would think to.
No, it's unexpected behavior that results from a combination of the expected behavior of individual mechanics.

Glitches don't have to result from someone putting a 4 where they should have put a 5. I can build a system that's supposed to do one thing that can actually be used to do another, because I didn't think of all eventualities. Especially when incorporating it into another system. That creates glitches.

Doesn't make them bad though. What was possible in the developer's vision isn't the same thing that's possible in the actual game, and the latter is what expert players should try to master, not the former.

>>267465158
They add things to the game though.
You are literally asking for less.

And I wouldnt mind your scenario, even if its exaggerated and stupid.

>>267465081
Uh... right, and wavedashing was an unintended side effect of air dodging along the ground. The only difference is that Nintendo didn't promote it.

>>267465220
We clearly just have differing views I guess, I can't really see it as a glitch.

>>267465334
>its to mean "it is"
europoor go

Can someone explain to me why tourneyfags think Sakurai is terrible and needs replaced because he can't make a fighting game, but think all the "advanced techniques" in Melee that they love so much are intentional features and not glitches? Because those two things don't really gel.

>>267464705
just noticed is zipper is down.

Sub-space Emissary was shit.

>>267462949
>They use async communication in Mario Kart and other games to improve this, but that doesn't work well for fighting games.
It's a shame we can only try to copy off Mario Kart, the first online video game ever. If only there were other people who had succesfully done online fighting games, and discussed the technology extensively. Oh wait that is exactly what has been happening for the past decade.

I like Smash, but the netcode is pretty atrocious and there is no real excuse for that in this day and age.

>>267465158
>That's how I feel about the clones themselves. That's what they add to the game. Fucking nothing, except unnecessary clutter and the illusion that there are more characters than there actually are.

People like those characters though, Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit are liked by the players of those games.

>>267465401
they don't think they're intentional, but they still don't think they're glitches

I'm pretty sure it's just a result of trying to avoid the negative connotations of a "glitch" as something to be fixed

>leave in glitch
>it makes game better
not a bad thing

>>267465518
Why can't they just be alternate outfits? Look at baby bowser.

>>267465553

There's at least one poster earlier in this thread saying they're intentional features.

>>267465135
Wolf only shares special moves with Fox. Everything else about the character is totally dissimilar.
Lucas is in a similar place except also shares a forward smash and down tilt, and is similar in terms of movement and proportions and so on.

Toon Link and Ganondorf aren't nearly as cloney as Dr. Mario or Dark Pit, obviously, but almost every single one of their moves are derived from the moveset of another character. Their attacks may have differences on a mechanical level, but it's still the same animations and shit, and the characters deserve much better, especially Ganondorf.

>>267465334
>You are literally asking for less.
I fully acknowledge this. I'm in favor of less quantity if it means the average quality is slightly higher.

>>267465518
People would still like those characters if they were alts.
You think people aren't using Roy because he doesn't have his own slot?

>>267458909
I disagree. Everything this man touches turns into gold.

Kirby Super Star is the GOAT platformer, his Kid Icarus reboot was fucking amazing and Smash is good enough to generate such massive autism from people like you

>>267465401
Intentional feature or glitch doesn't matter. What does matter is that Sakurai removed many of them from Brawl.

Cancels in Street Fighter 2 were also a glitch. But players liked them, so every Street Fighter game after 2 has them. That is good game design.

Smash is not a traditional fighting game.
Subspace Emmisary was bullshit.
Clones would not be clones if they had unique movesets.

I didn't care much for Brawl, but I don't think there are many who could do a better job with the series than Sakurai, giving the time frames he's working with.

>>267465553

Brawl has more glitches than melee.

>>267465668
>I fully acknowledge this.
Then dont be surprised when people call you names.

>>267465668
>People would still like those characters if they were alts.

And have Dr Mario throw Fire Balls?

>>267465668
You think people wouldnt prefer it if Roy had some unique aspects to him?

>>267465832
brawl's glitches don't make brawl a fast-paced high skill floor game

>>267465961
>floor
ceiling, that is

>>267465869
If Project M can have Dr Mario as an alt that enables pills instead of fireballs then I don't see how this would be a problem for Smash 4.

>>267465693

Street Fighter 1. They were intentional in SF2

>>267465852
I'm not.

>>267465869
You don't think they can change the aesthetics of attacks without making small tweaks to the mechanics?
Bowser Jr. can have 8 different models, sets of voice clips, announcer stuff, and so on, but a single attack can't be made to look different?
What?

>>267465921
You think people want 8 versions of Bowser Jr. on the character selection screen?

>>267466181
>You think people want 8 versions of Bowser Jr. on the character selection screen?
That would be the hypest shit.

>>267466158
>If Project M can have Dr Mario as an alt that enables pills instead of fireballs then I don't see how this would be a problem for Smash 4.

It makes no sense for an "Alternate costume" to have different abilities.

>>267466158
Project M is breaking the rules. Alternate costumes don't have alternate abilities. A better solution would be to have the costume and then a custom move, but if you had too many custom moves for one character this would be bad because muh equality.

>>267466309
>It makes no sense for an "Alternate costume" to have different abilities.
You mean different aesthetics.
All that need be different is the graphics and sound effects.
There is no reason it has to work any differently just because it's a pill instead of a fireball.

>>267466158
So thats no alt then.

>>267466158
The main problem official projects have over non-official projects are time constraints. From what it seems like, Nintendo expects its developers to adhere to a strict time frame without many extensions.

Though in this case, according to the dev team, Dr. Mario was originally going to be a Mario alt until the team decided to change whatever values or variables to him to make him his own character. Same thing happened for Dark Pit and Lucina. They did have the power to make them alts but chose not to. The reasons for that specifically other than what was said, I don't know.

>>267458909
Why replace a competent creative director with an other competent creative director?

>>267462763
>>267462828
>party game
You seem to be mistaken in think,ing one exclude the other.

As a matter of fact, all Fighting game are by definition party games.

>>267468585
nope

>>267468585
>party game
a game someone can jump right into and have fun. skill ceiling extremely low, a complete novice can compete with a pro
>fighting game
generally high-skill, takes a lot of practice and memorization, novice can not at all compete with a pro

>b-but it's a party game since it's multiplayer and technically you could play it at a party or in a party
>b-but it's a roleplaying game because you play a role

>>267468797
>a game someone can jump right into and have fun.
That's it, that's all you need to be a party game, a game mostly play on a couch with your friends.
>skill ceiling extremely low, a complete novice can compete with a pro
You are losing me, there, so you are now saying Smash isn't a party game?

>>267468797
Skill ceiling doesn't matter much for parties.
What's important is the skill floor.

Also, in Smash, novices cannot compete with pros in the slightest. This is true even in Brawl.

>>267468949
>That's it, that's all you need to be a party game, a game mostly play on a couch with your friends.
Thats wrong.

>>267468949
this is hardly an exact science. smash is somewhere between a party game and a fighting game

smash melee on the other hand was unintentionally way off in the fighting game direction

>b-but it's a party game since it's multiplayer and technically you could play it at a party or in a party

>>267468797
Why don't you go to evo next year and win it? You know, since it's a party game and anyone can beat the pros

>>267469175
>unintentionally
Doesn't Sakurai himself say that he made Melee much more competitive?

>>267469052
>>267469175
>smash is somewhere between a party game and a fighting game
It's not somwhere between, it's Both a a fully fighting game and a party game.

Melee is also a party game.

Most fighting game are party games because you simply plug in and can start immediately. And the way it is mostly naturally played is not online but with friends in the same room.


Unlike FPS, whose the multiplay is mostly dominated by the online.

>>267469376
>b-but it's a party game since it's multiplayer and technically you could play it at a party or in a party

>>267469484
Yes it is. thank you for agreeing with me.

>>267469376
>any offline multiplayer game is a party game
Thats not how it works.

Also, fighting games are primarily arcade games.
Competetive arcade games.

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With all the shit Sakurai gets for the past 8 years, I can atleast say this.

Whatever happens in Smash 5, you'll wish he was back although there really isn't anyone well enough to replace them with and I doubt Nintendo will give a franchise as big as Smash Bros to someone who isn't skilled enough to handle this genre.

I rather just have Bamco develop it and have of the vets from the Melee team from Hal's old days to look over it as a director.

>>267469484
You keep saying this in a way that implies it isn't true. I don't understand, anon.

>>267458909
What is a Nintendo?

>>267469658
because it isn't true, you faggot

mario party is a party game. because you can't have that guy who's spent entire years on the thing wiping the floor with everyone. it's not that hard for a novice to compete

smash isn't a party game because somebody just picking it up is going to get destroyed

>>267469570
>Thats not how it works.
Indeed. to be a party game, it also requires for it to be able to start almost instantly, requires it doesn't need long play session to get a victory. and can be ended rather fast.

>>267469795
All fighting games are by definition Party game

>Also, fighting games are primarily arcade games.
Competetive arcade games.
One doesn't exclude the other.

>>267469818
Monopoly and Mario Party contradict your claim.

>>267469895
>asserting something without argument enough times will make me correct

>>267468949

>that's all you need to be a party game, a game mostly play on a couch with your friends.

so every game is a party game.

>>267469895
>All fighting games are by definition Party game
They're not though.

The mindgymnastics you smash faggots try to pull off to make your party game seem legitimate is astounding.

Wont get accepted as a fighting game?
Better claim that all fighting games are party games instead to drag them down on our level!

They should let someone like Harada handle smash.

>>267470005
But they, are, they are game that can be quiclky started and ended and are usually played with your friend in the same room.

Also, Smash is fully accepted as a fighting game, only a few whinner complain that some Dare to say it's a fighting game.

>>267458909
I don't care about SSE, I liked melee's adventure mode where you ran through other characters games.

If you want a story mode bring back the story from 64, where smash bros was a just a Toy Story rip off

>>267470147
>arguing about the definition of english phrases when your first language isn't english

What's the definition of a party game?

>>267470000
>so every game is a party game.
Not every games can be jumped in easily.

Many game require longplay session or have multi that have long campaign that can't be interrupted easily to switch to something else.

Those aren't party games.

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>>267470147
>Also, Smash is fully accepted as a fighting game

>>267470214
Partie is also a French word (Belgian, by the way, not French)

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>>267470247
>Dokapon kingdom isnt a party game

>>267470287
So, you missed last Evo?

>>267470385
You mean the tournament that allows crap like Injustice on the mainstage?

>>267470000
Nice 4 same digits

>>267470380
It actually fit perfectly the definition I have given.

I wish that meta crystal returns.

>>267470641
Dokapon Kingdom campaigns can last 20+ hours.

>>267470770

Grand Strategy.

>>267470870
So you're claiming that 20hour+ session games arent longplay?

Your definition is shit.

>>267470969
Didn't answer that one
>>267470770

But when a session take 20hour+, it start to stray away from the party definition, it's not a game you can launch on the go anymore but require some planning. This game mean you will probably do nothing else and might need to pause and restart on an other day where you'll have to make sure all the players can come back

It still more or less qualify because there is no real progression saving from session to session and the next session don't really rquire the same players to come back.

>>267471329
Dokapon Kingdom is definitely a party game though.

Your definition is shit.

>>267469795
Someone with a limited vocabulary is consistently going to get their shit kicked in at Scrabble.
Does that make it not a party game?

Someone good at bluffing and reading people is consistently going to wipe the floor with everyone else at poker.
Does that make it not a party game?

Someone skilled at darts is always going to beat someone unskilled at darts.
Does that make it not a party game?

What about trivia games?
You think people with knowledge of the subject matter don't have a bit of an edge on those who don't?
Are those not party games?

How about Pictionary?
You think someone with artistic ability isn't going to have a much easier time?
Is that not a party game?

And hell, someone bad at the minigames in Mario Party is fairly consistently going to lose at Mario Party. The person who's good at them may not win, but the person who's bad at them is much more likely not to have enough coins to do stuff, including buying stars, won't be getting the minigame star, and probably won't get the coin star. Chance factors in a great deal, but probability is against the unskilled player.
Maybe the newer Mario Party games that no one likes or think are as enjoyable at parties are much more random about who wins. I dunno, I know nothing about those games.

Basically: your definition is fucking retarded.

>>267470385

>accepted at EVO
>not added in because the Cannons and Mr Wizard realised they could get more shekels if they pulled in Smashfags

>>267471437
Never said it wasn't.
It's a party game like Zelda 4sword.

It need to be planned ahead if you intedn to play it.

I am not saying it's not a party game, but it's already a game that require more dedication than the usual party game. It require some planning ahead if you want to increase the chance of the game to actually be played and the session finished.

>Le hating Sakurai meme

>>267471875
So obviously having a need to plan ahead isnt a problem when it comes to party games.

>>267471792
This imply that the people who enjoy to see fightings games consider Smash a Fighting game in the first place.

>>267470385
IWBTG was at Evo

IWBTG confirmed for fighting game

>>267472119
This what we're doing?

Some guy wore a hat to EVO.

That guy's hat confirmed for fighting game!

>>267471945
for many party games, planning ahead is not even required.
"hey there is a game! let's play it! All right, I have kicked your ass! Ho shit you beat me? What Brandon is setting himself on fire on the terrace? Gotta go see it, who want the controller?"

Dokapon Kingdom is a game a bit more advanced than your usual fighting game and whne you start don't expect to make anything else.

Dokapon Kingdom is a dedicated party game, the thing you'll mostly or even only play during the party.

>>267472459
>for many party games, planning ahead is not even required.
For some it is.
Therefore its not a defining aspect of the genre.

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>>267463912
How about the fact that only 1% of the playerbase actually sees it more than a party game and plays it competitively?
Are you forgetting that Nintendo's tournament rules are 4 players with items on except for the finals?
Are you forgetting that just last year Nintendo tried to stop Smash from being streamed at EVO? In other words they didn't even realize that you guys exist or cared enough.
Are you aware that in Japan, Nintendo's primary market and where the game is being made, the competitive scene is close to non-existent compared to the US? Not to mention they still play Brawl.

>>267472629
>Nintendo tried to stop Smash being at EVO because they didn't know there was a competitive community
Uh, what?
Wouldn't they have done absolutely nothing if what you were saying was true?

>>267473080
Because they thought it was like 5 guys playing it at EVO so they wouldn't get backlash for stopping it.

>>267473228
It sounds more to me like you just don't know what you are talking about.

>>267473080
Nintendo are making tournaments for most of their multiplayer games nobody takes seriously, like Mario Kart or Pokemon.

>>267473294
If they knew they were going to get a huge backlash they why would they try to stop it? They obviously thought you were an insignificant part of the market. Still too difficult to understand?

>>267473462
I understand what you think you are saying just fine.
I just think you're retarded.

Nintendo also tried to monetize all let's play videos featuring Nintendo games on YouTube, and they did this knowing shit tons of people do let's plays of Nintendo games (that was probably the impetus, in fact), and anyone with a brain in their skull would know that there would be a ton of backlash over this.
They still fucking tried it.

>>267473772
YouTube is different because it's something they would make money off. What would they gain by stopping it from streamed at EVO?

>>267473860

Ensuring they're contacted for permission before their games are streamed at large events.

>>267473860
They may have thought Smash being at EVO could hurt their bottom line somehow. You can't assume money wasn't the motivation there.

I'm done arguing though. I don't care whether anyone thinks Smash is competitive or not, I just thought that one point you made was really stupid.

>>267460946
>Sakurai is the worst thing to ever happened to the Smash series.
But he started it

>>267474078
>>267474123
Well that's just my observation. It just seems to me like they did a 180 so fast on the matter as if they just found out there's actually a big community. I mean stopping it from being streamed at EVO to sponsoring it?

>>267458909
>>D-Do I fit in now?

>>267458909
Just replace with someone which can handle online in a multiplayer game.

I don't understand how he could fuck this up especially when everyone is playing on their own 3DS. I hate Nintendo for actively trying to remove all fun from their multiplayer experiences.

I've just got to stop hoping they'll stop doing this shit and drop them.

>>267474214
I don't care who started it you're both getting a time out.

>>267474674
He's not handling the online. Namco is doing the online just like how they helped with Mario Kart 8's online.

>>267458909
>Someone who knows how to design a fighting game

Yeah, except smash is a party game, not a smash game. He has said several times the game's not focused on being competitive. The competitive scene is just something he added to appeal the costumers.

>Someone who knows how to make a worthy campaign mode in the same vain of SSE
He was the one who created SSE. If it's not here, it's because there are some reasons for it. SSE was awesome, but not the main point of the game. I'd rather have other content than having another SSE.

>Someone who knows how to give clones unique moves sets
Clones have been in fighting games all the time. If they do not take devolopment time, then they are fine. Nobody complais about Ryu and ken and Phyrra and Omega Phyrra.

This nigga created one of nintendo icons when he was 22 years old (Kirby) and the new look he gave to kid icarus is one of the best and most liked games for nintendo 3DS. Not a lot of people can say they acomplished this in their lives.

I agree and disagree with things Sakurai does, but I know that objectively talking, he is really good at his job.

>>267475310
>Not designed for the competitive crowd
>For Glory is the only game mode which doesn't have minute long buffering times

Hackurai

>>267475423
As I said, For Glory was added to appeal the competitive costumers, but the rest of tha game is mainly focused on the casual audience.

Smash LET'S YOU play in a competitive way changing some of the rules, but that doesn't mean it IS a competitive game.

>>267475535
Even if you are playing for fun, the point of the game is to beat the other players.
How is that not competitive?

>>267458909
>fighting game
Wat

>>267475535

Wasting your time. Competitive Smashfags can't understand that they're a minority when it comes to the game's sales

>>267458909
Maybe when Nintendo starts making fighting games, they'll hire someone who knows how to design fighting games.
It hasn't happened yet, so I don't see a need to do so.

>>267475639
You also have to beat people in Mario party and I don't see any "MARIO PARTY WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" tough that would be awesome

With items, the game turns unpredictible, which directly makes it unviable for the competitive scene. The fun of smash is "how the fight devolops" rather than "How you managed to win the fight"

>>267475839
But they do exists and sakurai knows that. He could've just made Smash 4 a full party game, but decided to add "For Glory" and the FD forms just for the competitive scene. A nice touch, if you ask me.

>>267475667
>>267475905
Smash is a fighting game. :)

samurai uyaehuaheha

>>267475535
>>267475839

If it wasn't for competitive players why does For Fun play like utter shit?

Surely they would decide that it was unacceptable to release it in this state.

>>267475905
They hired Namco for Pokken.

Chances are that Pokken will be way more legit than Smash Bros.

>>267463269


Why the fuck does a fighting game need a campaign?

>>267475930

Because it makes it look like they care about competitive players and thus continue to receive their money

>>267463680

Nigger cut that shit out, the great thing about melee was that the skill ceiling was LITERALLY INFINITE.


The fucking idiot could have had an extremely successful esport but now it's going to be another brawl, played for a year and a half and then forgotten.

>>267476282
Well yeah, one's a party game and one's an arcade fighter.

>>267463912
He's just pandering to them.


He's casualised the game hardcore and knows pretty much next to nothing about how the mechanics of a fighting game should work.


Melee was the perfect balance of fun and competitiveness.


The cunts ruined it for all of us.

>>267476417
Brawl lasted 3 years and its still alive in Japan.
Hell, its not even like melee replaced it. Meleefags never moved on brawlfags just left.

>>267476417
Hey, Brawl was bigger than Melee for 3 years in the US and they never stopped playing it in Japan.

>>267476282
I'm still annoyed we're getting Pokken and not Gotcha Force but with Pokemon.

>>267463958
>emissary plays a lot like kirby, of course nobody can do that but sakurai

who gives a shit


>but they should replace him with someone who actually likes competitiveness once he quits (after wii u for sure


YES! PLEASE! Make Smash into a fucking esport!

>>267476417

Infinite once you removed most of the content and introduced rulesets, yeah?
You can't seriously believe that Smash was ever intended to be more than a fun-time brawler. Even earlier in the thread people posting about wavedashing, l-cancelling etc. show that they weren't specifically programmed features and just accidents

>could have had an extremely successful esport

Instead he got an extremely successful game that sells well and makes money, I'm sure he's crying into his ramen about what an idiot he is

>>267476516
There are many people who flirted with competitive Brawl for a while and just went back to Melee. It absolutely was replaced in that sense.

>Nobody likes SSE
>No Everyone wants him back
>Mewtwo was a fucking terrible Character
>Everyone wants him back.

>>267476609
>l-cancelling etc. show that they weren't specifically programmed features and just accidents
L-cancelling was specifically shown as a technique on the Smash 64 website. You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>267476719

I said it wasn't specifically programmed, not that they never knew about it. Read what some guy further up posted, they saw it during development and decided to leave it in; it was never intentionally created as a feature

>>267476770
Yeah, i'm sure the separate animations for l-cancelling weren't specifically programmed.

>>267476770
Let's assume you're correct.
>they had the opportunity to get rid of it
>they intentionally left it in as a feature
>they purposely included it in the sequel
Wow yeah, how uncompetitive of them.

>>267476609
It's funny how people keep posting the "B-BUT YOU'RE REMOVING CONTENT FROM THE GAME" argument when they don't realize that turning items and stage hazards on makes you ignore the actual core game itself and makes the game center around only the fastest characters.

If anything, turning them off adds more content to the game.

>>267466038
melee is pretty high skill floor. if you're not good at DI, knowledgeable players can just abuse certain combos to instant kill you on most characters.

>>267476968

If we're going to use one feature of the game as proof of the series being intentionally competitive, then: tripping. Discuss

>One of the highest selling franchises in the company's history
No? Tip top kek.

>>267476609
>bunnyhopping was an accident in quake
>becomes a competitive game
>combos were an accident in street fighter
>becomes a competitive game
>wavedashing was an accident in smash
>NOOOOOOOO!!!!! IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A COMPETITIVE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>267477089
>If we're going to use one feature of the game as proof of the series being intentionally competitive
That isn't what I'm doing.
I'm just shitting on your terrible argument.
That other post was my first reply to you.

Is there any fanbase whinier than Smash Bros fans?

>only have the choice between FD reskins or having to deal with some dumb shit on each level.

>>267477282

That would make a lot more sense if you hadn't used two games specifically designed to be competitive from the get-go

Well im glad sakurai doesn't listen to advice from v.
You really think anyone can just "replace" sakurai and add those fanciful ideas of yours and make them not suck?

Sakurai has been working on smash for decades, he has watched and directed the series since its conception and you think you know the series better than him? You can change the series better than him? Fuck off man.

Im happy with what we got seriously.

Sakurai seems burned out on Smash Bros. Maybe he should work on another game to take a break.

>>267477496

I'd be burned out on a game too if I had a community of pre-teens constantly telling me they could make a better game than me and that I should cater to them more

>>267477487
Project M and all other Smash mods are proof that other people know the series better than him.

>>267476609
No, the skill ceiling is even higher with managing items and stage hazards and shit on top of everything else (unless the drop rate is too high and the game devolves entirely into grabbing items before the other guy).
Problem is those are random elements, not good if you want a fair competition.

>>267477472
>quake 1
>the first street fighter
>specifically designed to be competitive from the get-go
That's a good joke nigga

>>267477571
>Project M
>A Buggy mess.
>Better.

>>267477571

No, Project M and all the other Smash mods are proof that there are people who just want a competitive fighting game with Smash's mechanics and aren't particularly interested in Smash as a series, if anything
That's like saying people who make surf maps for CSS know the series better than Valve

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>>267476719
>>267476770
L-cancelling was intentional.
Wavedashing (or at least the physics) was intentional.

Sakurai wasn't sure how the game can be improved after making Smash 64 so he decided to make the game faster and harder.

Sakurai just overestimated the ability of casuals at the time.

Had even 20% of casuals used these mechanics, Sakurai would've left them in the game.

People keep saying they want Sakurai to be replaced but who would replace him?

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>>267477973

>>267458909
>SSB
>Fighting game
It's a party game faggot, I don't care how much you cry it's not a real fighting game.

>>267477973
Retro Studios. Maybe then we would get some proper Metroid and Donkey Kong reps.

Why does Smash as a series attract so much autism?

Legitimate question, I have to deal with competitive Smash players in my local fighting game scene, and many of them have no idea how to talk to another human being without being a rude asshole or awkward as fuck

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>>267478023
>mfw fightanfags are literally the only people who think smash isn't a fighting game
>mfw if you asked anyone who isn't from the FGC they will say smash is a fighting game

>>267478101
You still won't be getting King K. Rool. Lol.

>>267478239
Sounds about right.
People who dont know shit dont know shit.

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>>267478230
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhN_7Uwx5G0

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>>267478321

>>267478230
high level smash play requires it

>>267478230
Its the biggest crossover of cartoon videogame mascots.
Obviously it will attract spergs.

It might not be as deviantart tier gay as Kingdom Hearts but its still radiating that autism.

>>267460946
>the guy who created smash is the worst thing to ever happen to smash

wat

>>267478451
Not everybody.
But people who actually dedicate themselves to the genre obviously know more than some random casuals.

>>267477571
This is just like icefrog and his fans.

Everyone complains everytime icefrog release a new patch saying how things are changed too much etc.
You know how many custom dota maps were made by fans to compete with icefrog in WC3 days?
Yet at the end of the day, only icefrog's maps were the most popular and survived all the competition.
That is because he changes things up, for better or for worse.
His games never stayed stagnant.

Smash would become forgotten if all they do is remake melee with the same graphics like PM and add new characters.

>>267478539
>The guy who created Star Wars is the worst thing to happen to Star Wars.

>>267458909
>fighting game
Surely you mean 'casual party game', anon?
You do realise that's what they set out to make every time.

>>267478657
>a bunch of nobodies with aspergers know more than popular opinion and official statements by the creators

>>267478539
If he didn't create Smash then the fighting game community wouldn't have to watch a party game like Maylay at EVO. I mean what's next, Mario Party 9 at EVO?

>>267478239
I never play any fighting games but okay if it helps you sleep at night

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I still don't get why Palutena deserved a slot.

>>267478860
Those creators havent made a fighting game in their life.
They definitely dont know shit.

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>>267478909
Because she's cute. In fact she probably deserves two slots like Samus and Zelda.

>>267478909
Why wouldn't she? Not to mention she was requested since Brawl.

>>267478713
>he thinks Project M attempts to remake Melee
opinion discarded
you lack knowledge of the topics you discuss

>>267478909
She makes sense as a character. Dark Pit pisses me off more for being in.

>>267478239
I hate fighting games, I think they're the most boring to play and most boring to watch of all genres, ASSFAGGOTS excluded. SSB is a casual party game, designed expressedly without competitive play in mind.

>Sakurai likes to at least partially choose characters based on who he likes
>Duck Hunt Dog, Prince Sable and Takamaru are all featured prominently
Could this mean that Sakurai could create a game based on one of these three somewhere down the line?

>>267479018
>superb ass sisters

>>267479329
>For Glory

>>267478718
I have no witty retordt for this.

>>267478909
I sometimes legitimately forget she's even in the game, there's never been a character I cared so little about in SSB that that happened. I couldn't list her normals if my life depended on it.

>>267478909
I don't mind the idea of her as a playable character but she's just so damn boring.

>>267465516
>Nintendo
>Ever looking at the competition with critical eyes

>>267479206
Not him but are you suggesting that Project M doesn't use Melee's core mechanics?

Or the fact that they get a lot of shit every time they try to deviate a little bit from the Melee formula, eg. better recoveries? Better change it back to appease the Melee crowd!

Or the fact they actually tried to make a game that's not like Melee but nobody wanted to fund it?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1289882404/air-dash-online-the-competitive-platform-fighter

People who are hardcore Meleefags do not like fighting games, they like Melee. That's it

>>267464181
>lee hurr some morons think that, durr
>Sakurai confirmed himself that most the techniques used in competitive Melee are glitches
Youg uys are so pitiful.

>>267464181
Wavedashing is a glitch, though. He just said they NOTICED it during development (whcih could just be blatant lying, anyway), however, it wasn't pot into the game intentionally.