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Am I the only one who is really happy about...
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Am I the only one who is really happy about the inclusion of Duck Hunt Dog and Duck in the game?
I mean, sure their moveset could do a lot of tweaking, but I think it's great that they brought back something from the long forgotten past and gave them some kind of love.

Reminds me of the time they added Ice Climbers on Melee
Seriously Sakurai, where the fuck are my Ice Climbers? you can have Birdmen in the stage, surely you can also have a second ice climber
>>
>>267116501
He's a cool retro addition, but his moveset breaks the game.

Smash 4 is a campfest already but characters like Duck Hunt compound the problem.
>>
Nah, I love them too OP. I was hoping the leak was real all along because of them. I'd main them but I'm not too fond of zoning characters so they're my secondary.
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>>267116501
Nah, he's great. Probably my favorite newcomer now that I've tried everyone. Can't wait for him to be the new ROB/Game and Watch and have everyone expecting him to get cut for Smash 5, only for him to come back.
>>
They're a fantastic inclusion and remind me of why I love Smash Bros.
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>>267116501
>Moveset needs tweaking

Anon...
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>>267117753
down B is incredibly terrible
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>>267116501

I just wish he had the original laugh.
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>>267116501

Duck Hunt Dog looks like the most unique original character. Its better than half the cast which are just clones, Sword wielders or the 10 fucking Mario characters.

This is probably the worst roster in Smash Bros yet. But characters like WiiFit Trainer and Duck Hunt dog at least make it tollerable to play.

>mfw duck hunt dog and Little Mac are blowing Falco and Marth players out of the water
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>>267118271
>the worst roster in Smash Bros yet

You honestly thought Melee's was better?
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>>267116501
The problem is 4vs4 battles where everyone plays as ICs

3DS couldnt make it
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>>267116501
I love them as well. I hope they become a staple to the series like Mr. G&W.
>>
When you think about it, their moveset is a lot like Snake's.
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>>267118743
it really isn't, bro
I wish Snake came back though
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>>267118390

When Melee first came out, the roster was 3x the size of Smash 64. Most of the problem with the roster is masive issues with the gameplay and levels. Tons of characters were unbalanced. But the actual characters they chose were alright (except fucking Dr Mario and Pichu taking up slots).
>>
>>267118743
how?
>>
>>267118839
>>267118928

Explosives, and planning.
>>
>>267117904
down b can wreck people on final death I know that much for sure
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>>267118840

>Melee is better because it had a bigger jump in character count

It's this kind of backwards logic that makes me pity Melee fans for never being able to enjoy another Smash game ever again.
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>>267119224

Brawl is my favorite Smash. But I like all the Smash games to some degree.

I'm not a 'melee' fan. I'm ujsut someone who has been playing the series since the N64 and acknowledge how big a deal Melee was when it came out. It really did feel like the biggest release in gaming for a couple years. Of course many PS2 games were better. Even some GC games. But nothing surpassed the 'hype' of Smash Bros Melee in that generation.
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>>267118271
>This is probably the worst roster in Smash Bros yet
How the hell do you figure? Compare it to every other Smash game's roster.

Melee has:
>Mewtwo
>Pichu
>Young Link
>Roy

Brawl has:
>Lucas
>Wolf
>Ice Climbers
>Squirtle
>Ivysaur

Both have:
>Ice Climbers

Smash 4 has:
>Mega Man
>Villager
>Wii Fit Trainer
>Rosalina
>Little Mac
>Greninja
>Mii Fighters
>Palutena
>Pac-Man
>Lucina
>Robin
>Shulk
>Dark Pit
>Duck Hunt
>Bowser Jr.

4 has any of them beat in sheer numbers alone.

You think Mewtwo and Ice Climbers improve a roster more than Mega Man, Villager, Little Mac, Pac-Man, Koopalings, and Duck Hunt?

You think Snake, Wolf, Lucas, Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, and Squirtle do?

I'm really dying to know what line of reasoning you use here.
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>>267119605
>Brawl has:
>Ice Climbers

meant to type
>Brawl has:
>Snake
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>>267116501
>I mean, sure their moveset could do a lot of tweaking

but they're OP as fuck
>>
>>267119605
>I'm really dying to know what line of reasoning you use here.
well, the fact that taking out 7 characters is't justified by adding 6 character for one
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>>267119926
When you say things like, you're not comparing the final roster of two games. You're comparing to processes that went into making said rosters. You said this is probably THE worst roster in the series. Worse than a game with 10 characters.
>>
I'd have preferred him being an Assist Trophy that released a flock of birds and made anyone who touched one get shot by the zapper (sort of like his FS), but him being playable isn't the worst inclusion they could have made.
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>>267118271
>This is probably the worst roster in Smash Bros yet.
it's the best one yet, nerd
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>>267119605

>Series with lots of characters get even more characters
>series with few characters got some removed
>Falco, a total clone of Fox, returns but Wolf gets cut
>fucking ROB is back, but Ice Climbers removed?
>four different Fire Emblem characters but only one Metroid, Pikmin or Mother rep
>Dr Mario and fucking Dark Pit are separate characters when they could just be palette swaps; fucking Dark Pit IS a palette swap of regular Pit and vice versa; might as well have just put fucking Dark Link in the game as his own character
>Ganondorf is still a clone of Captain Falcon when they could have easily used Pig Ganon, Wind Waker Ganon,
>Pac Man is just stupid no matter how you slice it; and his addition is not justified by 'popularity' or 'importance to gaming' when they removed tons of Nintendo characters which could use that claim, especially since fucking ROB came back and Ice Climbers didn't

Really all this roster did well is some of the new characters. Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer and Rosalina. And even then, stuff like Bowser Jr, the Fire Emblem characters and Dark Pit are absolutely horrible choices.
>>
>>267122027

>might as well have just put fucking Dark Link in the game as his own character

I would have played him. Or SR-X for Metroid. Though I do want to point out that Dark Link is a skin for regular Link.

All the more reason Dark Pit is stupid.
>>
>>267122027
You can gripe and nitpick all you want, but the final product is still superior to every roster before it. We have more classic videogaming fanservice here. Hell, the only characters we're truly missing are Cranky Kong (classic DK), and Simon Belmont (classic NES-centric third party franchise).

That's not to say you don't address perfectly valid flaws in 4's roster (cutting Wolf but keeping Falco makes no sense). But other stuff like "a unique character got cut while this other unique character stayed!" applies to Brawl just as much. Dense series' getting MORE characters applies to both Melee and Brawl.

Clones getting in when they could have been palette swaps applies to Melee. I still don't understand this complaint at all.
>they put in little effort and time to pad the roster out
>if they didn't do this, there wouldn't be any characters taking their places

I mean I get it, it makes little sense why they made Doc and DP clones, and Alph and the Koopalings are still alts. All or none. But I'm not seeing how this makes the roster actually suffer, since we still have all of the unique characters we would have regardless.

You've yet to make a fraction of a decent case for why shit hardly anyone ever cared about like Lucas, Wolf, Mewtwo, or Ice Climbers not only meet, but TRUMP classic iconic characers like Pac-Man, Mega Man, Duck Hunt, and Little Mac

also

>Pac-Man's importance to gaming
>tons of Nintendo characters which could use that claim
There are a whole two Nintendo characters capable of that. And they've been on the roster since 64.

>four different Fire Emblem characters but only one Metroid, Pikmin or Mother rep
>four different Fire Emblem characters
>only one Metroid rep
You can't be serious here. A clone contributes to FE's character count, but an entirely unique playstyle can't contribute to Metroid's?
>>
>>267122027

I'm waiting for the Wii U version. But I hope they finally do DLC for this game. Might make up for so many bad decisions if they add a few new original characters in. Or older ones back in.
>>
>>267122027
>Bowser Jr. is horrible
>Rosalina is good
I will never understand this logic.
>>
>>267123761

>You can gripe and nitpick all you want, but the final product is still superior to every roster before it.
No..its just larger. And as I pointed out, a lot of the more original characters in past Smash Bros games were removed. While many of the less 'classic' representations were kept. Falco and ROB do not add any nostalgia value for the vast majority of people. They were added in because Sakurai claims 'I want to have as many returning characters as possible'. Yet if that's the case, where did Lucas, Ice Climbers, MewTwo and etc go? They were far more important than giving Dr Mario his own fucking slot.

>We have more classic videogaming fanservice here. Hell, the only characters we're truly missing are Cranky Kong (classic DK), and Simon Belmont (classic NES-centric third party franchise).
>Cranky Kong

Oh so you're just one of those trolls. Got you.
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>>267123914

Rosalina is at least a unique character in the Mario Universe. Bowser Jr is literally a guy trying to imitate his dad. And failing in every attempt. Might as well have put Baby Bowser in instead. Or better yet, Birdo, Bow, a Shyguy,...anything more unique.
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>>267124114
>No..its just larger.
And has more unique movesets. And has more classic gaming icons.

Adding Melee and Brawl together, we've lost Mewtwo, Ice Climbers, Lucas, Wolf, Snake, Squirtle, and Ivysaur. That's a whole seven original characters. Losing 7 characters, let alone THOSE seven is enough to bring this roster down, in spite of the great new additions we have? That's what I don't understand, at all.

>Cranky Kong
>troll
You're telling me the OG DK with Arcade DK as his final smash wouldn't be perfect here with Pac-Man, Mario, and ATs of Galaga and Pong?
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>>267116501

They're a great addition, but I wouldn't exactly call Duck Hunt "long forgotten".

Unless you're like, 12 or something
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>>267124428
But Rosalina has hardly any personality, besides some motherly attributes. Bowser Jr., although kind of a Scrappy Doo character, has been prevalent in almost all the newest Mario games in some way or another. He seemed the most logical addition imo, but at least both of them made it versus only Rosalina.
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>>267124114
>giving Dr Mario his own fucking slot.
>slot
>>
The only reason they're in the game is because the character and moveset were designed before a proper licensing agreement with RARE's IP holder could form. But the plans fell through, and instead of scrapping the work, they hashed out a new model of Duck Hunt to take the place meant for Banjo-Kazooie.
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>>267123761

Nintendo has contradicted the whole "Cranky is the original DK" thing many times.
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>>267124783
>Banjo-Kazooie was going to have light gun based attacks
Stop the fucking presses you guys
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>>267124528

I'm telling you that you're defending the removal of characters that represent an entire unique series like Ice Climbers or Metal Gear Solid. Then bitching your personal ideal characters like Cranky Kong should be in. When DK already has 2 reps.

You're basically being a hypocrite. And not getting the original argument.
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>>267124783
>Microsoft
>Giving up rights to anything
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>>267116501
>play smash with my weirdo uncle
>he only mains the guys he recognizes
>they are all high or top tier
It's a good handicapping for Nintendads actually,his reflexes aren't what they were when he was a young dude. He really has an unwholesome fondness for Donkey Kong. or maybe just having an excuse to make monkey noises.
He also loves Wario for the farting and burping and biting.
>>
>>267124114

Lucas was only in Brawl cause Mother 3 was relatively new at the time. As much as I like him, I understand why he was cut.

Mewtwo is pretty irrelevant these days.

We never needed 3 Starfox reps.

Squirtle and fucking IVYSAUR as standalone reps would be pants on head retarded.

Ice Climbers = 3DS limitations
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>>267121724
>Confusing worst with best.
>>
>>267118840
I liked Pichu
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>>267124725

Rosalina has been in most of the new Mario games as well. Bowser Jr just happened to be in Sunshine before her. But most people still hated Bowser Jr for the exact reason you gave; he's a Scrappy Doo annoying character just put into games to stall your progress.

Also, seniority doesn't exactly factor into popularity. Daisy was in games even before Bowser Jr. She's not her own character, but a shitty palette swap of Peach. And both Daisy and Bowser Jr are about equal in 'popularity'. Rosalina is definitely way beyond both in popularity.

Our own opinions and favorite characters aside, we just have to admit a lot of Sakurai's choices do not make sense. Since they do not factor in their 'relevance to the series' as he claims is the most important factor.
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>>267124929
>bitching your personal ideal characters like Cranky Kong should be in
Calm down there guy. I'm not bitching at all. I'm trying to demonstrate that I feel the roster is indeed lacking in some departments, lest you get the impression that I think the roster is the shiny golden pinnacle of existence and shift the argument in that direction, as you people tend to do any time someone praises it in the slightest.

As for the removal of reps of characters that represent an entire series, yes I'm defending that, on the grounds that we got reps from more appropriate and iconic series'. What's wrong with that? I get your original argument, you're upset that characters and franchises aren't getting your ideal ratio of representation, based on your subjective criteria for who deserves representation, without at all backing the basic idea of that sort of thing's necessity up with an actual argument.
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>>267125462
>Scrappy Doo
I love this meme
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>>267117904
>not using down b for set ups, exploding cans and discs prematurely without additional input.
>>
http://www.poll-maker.com/poll147117xC7BE4930-6
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>>267125220

>Lucas was only in Brawl cause Mother 3 was relatively new at the time.

It had already been out for 2 years in Japan. And was ONLY released in Japan. Lucas was added because it gabve an excuse for a second rep for Mother. And because Sakurai planned the entire roster years before.

>Mewtwo is pretty irrelevant these days.

He's still consistently voted as one of the most popular Pokemon. And even returned in the Pokemon anime multiple times. Reguardless, if you're gonna claim MewTwo has no relevance, then what the fuck is Jigglypuff doing there? Oh right, because he was in previous Smash Bros games and fans like him. So...basically the same as MewTwo.

>We never needed 3 Starfox reps.

But having a Fox and Heavy Fox with slightly different moves is still better than Fox and Bird Fox.

>Squirtle and fucking IVYSAUR as standalone reps would be pants on head retarded.

I think just having Charizard is dumb by itself. Might as well have just taken all three of them out. We don't need 6 Pokemon reps.

>Ice Climbers = 3DS limitations
I know Sakurai keeps claiming this. But then what about Duck Hunt Dog and Rosalina? They are two characters in one as well. I'm not saying it isn't true. Just seems kind of fishy. Also, it still doesn't justify ROB coming back.
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>>267125184
>being a tier whore
>in smash of all games
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>>267118271
I don't understand this autistic hatred for swords.

I can understand being upset over blatant clones, that's fine, but JUST because they use a god damn sword? You might as well generalize every character that uses their fists. It's retarded.
>>
I dunno what to think about DHD. I guess he's a nice retro addition, though I'd prefer another character as retro rep.
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>>267116501
Literally only ridleyfags are angry about their inclusion.
>>
>>267125689
It's true though, he's basically a 'let me at 'em' kind of character. Not in a annoying way like Scrappy Doo, just overly prevalent. If it wasn't him, it would be someone else though.
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>>267116501
>playing ganon vs dhd
>he just spams his b's if i'm far away and dash attacks if i get close then runs to the other side to repeat the process
>still 2-0 stock him with a bair taking his last stock at 60%
fuck dhd
>>
>>267126504

>You might as well generalize every character that uses their fists.

People have done this in other fighters you know. People complain about SNK games having too many sexy girls who kick stuff. Or Capcom games having too many Zangeif/Ryu clones.

And Smash Bros has always had quite a bit of sword wielders. But Smash 4 managed to double the amount. Its pretty noticeable.

The bigger issue is them even having 4 Fire Emblem reps at all. Which the series is the epitome of niche. Yet other series which are considerably more popular like Metroid or Pikmin only have 1 character.
>>
>>267126141
Duck Hunt doesn't separate like Ice Climbers do, which is a big reason they're hard to work with. As for Rosalina, Luna is far less complex in terms of animation and doesn't have an AI WHEN separated.

Ice Climbers probably worked if it was just one or two, but a 4 IC match wouldn't have.
>>
>>267127083
I'm not mad at 4 FE reps, I'm more mad at all four having swords. I guess Robin has a bit of Magic, but still. The games themselves usually have a weapon triangle which is sort of importance, and they do have other Lords with different weapons.
I main Ike, but I'd gladly change him and Lucina for Ephraim and Hector any day.
>>
>>267127083
I agree that FE (nor KI) didn't need 2 more reps, especially fucking Kid Icarus. I really don't know what Sakurai is thinking sometimes, especially with how neglected some other franchises are. Especially Donkey Kong this time around.
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>>267127436

I agree. They should have added a Pegasus Knight, a Straight Mage and a Rogue/Assassin. Characters that show all the variety of Fire Emblem.

Hell, the idea of controlling a Pegasus Knight riding an actual mount sounds really fresh and awesome.
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>>267126242
Duck Hunt Dog is not two characters in one. It's one character with a slightly more complex hitbox.
>>
>>267126242
>>267127083
>I know Sakurai keeps claiming this. But then what about Duck Hunt Dog and Rosalina? They are two characters in one as well. I'm not saying it isn't true. Just seems kind of fishy. Also, it still doesn't justify ROB coming back.

Duck Hunt isn't like ICs. The Dog and Duck are controlled by the same thing, while Nana and Popo aren't. And while Rosalina is also like that, the thing is her Luma has a less complex AI than ICs. The Luma basically does whatever she does no matter what while if Nana gets separated she will do her own thing. Add in the possibility of multiple ICs playing on a hazardous stage with items on and you got yourself serious lag. ROB came back because he was in Brawl, and because he's very important to Nintendo's history as the thing that saved the company from death. He's always had cameos in other Nintendo games. ICs aren't comparable; their franchise has done fuck all for the company and has never been relevant, not even amongst niche retro circles. They'd be a litwho in all circles if they weren't ever implemented into Melee.

Not that representation matters that much anyway. Yes it plays a part but in the end what makes a roster good is if the characters are fun to play as, which is why clones are ass. You bitch about FE reps but the only problematic one is Lucina because she's Marth for babies. Marth, Ike, and (especially) Robin all offer interesting and unique playstyles, so who gives a shit if they cause a series to be slightly overrepresented? And this is all coming from a guy peeved about no new DK reps.
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>>267127083
I think you also have to look at the potential character pool of those games. There aren't exactly a lot of characters in Pikmin to choose from, which is why Alpha was a skin. As for Metroid, aside from you having two characters, the other ones were all either one off side characters in unpopular entries, or unfeasible boss characters.
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>>267127657
Dark Pit probably just got in because he, along with Dr. Mario and Lucina were probably gonna be alt characters for their respective characters ala Alph and the Koopalings, but they had a bit more time and/or maybe they needed some filler to replace characters that couldn't make it like Ice Climbers so they were made into their own slots.
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>>267126242
>B-B-But then what about Duck Hunt Dog and Rosalina???? M-Muh AICE CLIMBUUUrS

Duck Hunt Duo are just 2 models working as the same entity and animated together. Luma has no AI at all and just follows the player commands.

Fucking Nanna had AI. predicted the player's movements and adapted to them.
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>>267116501

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THEY LET LAGGING FUCKING MEXICANS PLAY THIS GAME WHEN IT RUINS 1V1 ENTIRELY. I GET BEAT SO MANY TIMES BECAUSE I HAVE A HALF SECOND DELAY BECAUSE SOME FAGGOT MEXICAN FAMILY SOLD THEIR CAR TO BUY THEIR FAGGOT KID A 3DS TO TORTURE PEOPLE ONLINE WITH THEIR SHITTY FUCKING CONNECTIONS.

FUCK
>>
>>267127881

ROB was also a failed entry in the Nintendo universe. Honestly, he's comparable to Virtual Boy.

I'm not saying Ice Climbers are more important than ROB. But having ROB makes little sense over lots of other characters. As does making Dr Mario and Dark Pit their own separate characters. I'm sure if you're honest with yourself, you can think of three Nintendo characters who deserve to be in there more than those three. Especially since two of them can just be skins for other characters.
>>
>>267128602
ROB was a trojan that essentially saved the gaming industry in America. That's what makes him notable.
>>
I don't mind Duck Hunt being added in. I just don't like some of his animations. Even for a Smash Bros. game, his animations look too silly and offputting to me.
>>
>>267125184
Back to Smash 64, I was like 6 or 7 years old. I didn't understand a single word of English. I just played the ones I recognized too. They were: Mario, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Link, Pikachu, Jigglypuff and Yoshi. I have never saw the other five all my life. And I had F-Zero.

Good days.
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>>267128602
>failed entry
>helped Nintendo succeed in the west and usher in a new age of gaming

Pick one. Meanwhile the Virtual Boy only damaged Nintendo and they've pretty much swept the whole thing under the rug since it gets zero references in any of their games. There really isn't any other character who would be a better choice over ROB.

Dr. Mario and Dark Pit shouldn't have been their own characters, I agree. But they're clones; lazy edits of characters already in. It's not like Sakurai had to pick between putting them or Ridley/Mewtwo/whoever in. It was either them or two other lazy-ass clones. Putting in clones is a bad choice no matter what; the devtime could be used implementing in more interesting alts than just palette swaps.
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>>267128224
THIS.
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>>267129537

ROB just stemmed the bleeding that Nintendo had going on with a failed western launch. It was Super Mario Bros and Legend of Zelda which 'ushered in a new era of gaming'.

No one back then was obsessing over ROB. Hardly anyone even owned the thing. Everyone owned Mario.
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>>267128602
Do you actually know what ROB was or are you just assuming it was infamously terrible because you think it looks crappy?
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>>267129537

>Meanwhile the Virtual Boy only damaged Nintendo and they've pretty much swept the whole thing under the rug since it gets zero references in any of their games.

Nintendo directly used it in their advertising of this game. Reggie jokes about the Virtual Boy all the time, even directly on stage at E3. Virtual Boy has been referenced a ton in WarioWare. Basically, Nintendo R&D1 references it all the time. Its basically become the go to example for 'failure' in Nintendo, but also a joke on themselves.

I'd even go as far as saying Virtual Boy gets mentioned more than ROB. The only other thing I ever saw mention ROB was WarioWare on GBA.
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>>267129821

ROB sold around 500,000 units. That's the same as fricken Dragon Warrior on NES. Mario and Zelda were the things that made NES popular in the west.

I know exactly what it is and its place in history.
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>>267130239
ROB 64
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>>267130638

Okay you got me...a character from Star Fox that most people don't even remember.
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>>267130915
i remember ;_;7
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>>267131067
As do I. He was an all American hero
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>>267129815
What bleeding? It was ROB that let Nintendo even have a western launch to begin with. Stores wouldn't have put the things on the market without it. Yes it was ultimately SMB and LoZ that launched the NES into mainstream. No, ROB and his games weren't all-star NES classics. The point is ROB allowed the NES to penetrate the western markets to begin with so it could become the platform for those all-star classics.

>>267130239
>"R.O.B. has appeared as a cameo character in various video games, such as StarTropics, Kirby's Dream Land 3, the Star Fox series, the WarioWare series, the F-Zero series, the Super Smash Bros. series, Viewtiful Joe, and his head appears in Pikmin 2, called the Remembered Old Buddy. R.O.B. is featured as an unlockable character in Mario Kart DS and Super Smash Bros. Brawl."

I actually didn't know VB was in WarioWare, though. I didn't play it that often.
>>
>>267128224
>Playing a party game 1v1 with foreigners

absolutely disgusting
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>>267118840
>the roster was 3x the size of Smash 64

>Super Smash Bros 64 had 12 characters
>Super Smash bros Melee had 25 characters

No wonder people like you are never satisfied you have an distorted overly positive recollection of it. The reason the Melee roster was great because it added the then core characters of Nintendo's bigger to the roster.

You can only have the impact of adding characters like Peach, Bowser, Falco Ganondorf, Zelda, Mewto and Marth once. That's why from Brawl and Smash 4 they started adding third parties,remaining staples(like Wario).
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>>267130467
ROB helped to sell the NES without being considered a scam, inherited thanks to the fall of vidya in 1983. With ROB, Nintendo could sell the NES as a toy and not a console like the Atari and others

That is its place in history
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>>267131857
This, really the only staple Smash 4 could've added was Ridley. Not that I'm a Ridleyfag, but that's just how it is.

Though the Melee roster dicksucking is kind of funny, since from what I've read from the posts of people who were there for it, it was fucking hated at first and people even used the jagged roster as proof for more characters since they just couldn't accept it. History truly repeats itself.
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>>267132958
Yeah, people quickly forget just how pissed they were about the fuck ton of clones and the addition of (at the time) nobodies like IC and Marth/Roy.
>>
>>267128224
You appear to be upset, gringo.
>>
my only problem with duct hunt is that there isn't a duck hunt stage

and who the fuck are those mexicans, there were no mexicans in duck hunt
>>
>>267133282
And this is it. This is why I don't get the dickslurping for ICs. If not for the separate AI and the deathgrab, no one would give two fucks because Ice Climbers is not a good or notable game
>>
>>267133843
Yeah, we'll probably get a stage for them on the Wii U version. I'm hoping it's a transitioning stage that switches between different zapper games.
>>
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actually hes probably the biggest surprise to me. At first i thought well shit it's just another "samuari troll character", but after playing him, i might actually pick him up for my top 5.
>>
>>267133843
What we need is a fucking Bowser's castle stage. We now have Bowser, Bowser Jr. and all the Koopalings, it would be crazy if we didn't get a castle or airship stage in this one.
>>
OH MY GOD GUYS LOOK WHO JUST GOT CONFIRMED HOLY SHIT

http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/secret05.html
>>
>>267116501
>you can have Birdmen in the stage, surely you can also have a second ice climber
1 AI vs 2 AI on the screen for the majority of the game, multiplied by the number of players, while attempting to keep 60fps.
>>
>>267134292
I really hope DHD and Bowser Jr. get trailers.
>>
>>267133898
Honestly even if they didn't even have that I'm sure people would've still complained just to complain. Wolf was hated during Brawl's day but now that he's cut people are mourning him. Fuck, people even complained about Roy getting cut in Brawl despite being a clone from a game that, even by FE standards, was a failure.

Not that there's anything wrong with complaining as long as you have valid reasons for doing so (and let's be honest, Smash 4 has solid reasons for complaints) but ICs getting cut isn't really one of them.
>>
>>267132958

I was there for Melees release. Its the reason I bought a GameCube at launch. And people were more angry at the fact that Melee was delayed 3 weeks than the 'roster'. When the game finally came out, most people were obsessing over it.

We didn't know why Marth and Roy were. Doesn't mean we were 'bitching' about it. Considering Marth became one of the most used characters, people liked him. What actually happened was many people initially thought Marth sucked and loved Roy because he was 'stronger'. But obviously that changed.

The new characters people were the most hyped for were characters like MewTwo and Ganondorf. And clearly that didn't last.

Also

Also, if your source is Tourneyfags and Smash Bros fans today talking about Melee at launch, you're the idiot. It would be like you claiming everyone hated Metroid II or Fusion when it first came out because 'people on /v/ said so'.
>>
>Metroid has one rep!
>Samus and ZSS are in the game
>>
>>267135419

They used to be one combined character. They simply separated them into two characters. And both are still Samus.

Please stop being so stupid. next you're gonna claim Dr Mario is a totally unique character.
>>
>>267136464
I guess Zelda only has 3 reps
>>
>>267136464
Dr. Mario is a clone, ZSS has a completely unique moveset.
>>
>>267136464
If Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit are counted (and they always are in these fucking things) then yes, absolutely Zero Suit Samus counts.
>>
>>267137010

>If Dr. Mario, Lucina and Dark Pit are counted

I just used the example that Dr Mario shouldn't be a separate character. Obviously I was arguing the complete opposite.
>>
>>267134746
My sources are oldfags from Smashboards and GameFAQs, and in the case of GameFAQs a couple of these users have accounts that been around since before Melee even came out. I'd say that's as decent as a source you're gonna get.

It's odd that your experience is completely different though. Were you a frequent internet user back then, or are you just going off how your friends reacted? My IRL friends are loving Smash 4 and don't give a flying fuck about the roster's faults, but if you go online you'll find way more criticism.
>>
>>267136761
her moveset is completely uninspired
>>
>>267136464
>Please stop being so stupid.
Brawl trailer. Newcomer: Pit
Newcomer: Meta Knight
Newcomer: ZERO SUIT SAMUS
>>
>>267137669
Okay? She's still not a clone of regular Samus or anyone else. The point is that she counts as a second Metroid rep even if she is technically the same character as the other Metroid rep.

>>267137743
Plus Sakurai himself always referred to her, Shiek and the Trainer's Pokemon as separate characters.
>>
>>267137889
she's lazy because she was hanging off samus

now that she's on her own her moveset doesn't deserve it
>>
>>267138095
No one's arguing that she's a great character, Anon. But you have to acknowledge that she is a character.
>>
>>267116501
Their moveset needs tweaking? What?
>>
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>People comparing Bowser Jr. to Scrappy Doo

You guys have shit taste. Baby Bowser/Bowser Jr. is a cool character and always was.

He ruined ALL the "lore" by himself when he appeared in Mario Sunshine!
>>
>>267138279
The amount of range he has is ridiculous.

He can toss a can across the stage, down pits, up into the sky, toss a frisbee near or far, and set up the Wild Gunman to scope anybody too close.

Not to mention his F-Smash is ridiculously far-ranged.
>>
>>267139956
Duck Hunt's muh main but his F Smash isn't as overpowered as people think.
Sure it's wide, but unless it hits you with the first hitbox I ain't launching you anywhere.
Cans are great to set up, trying not to spam them and use them in a sort of technical way.
>>
>>267139164
Bowser Junior is a shit character. People don't even like him in Mario Party 2, and that game was fucking Mario Party 2.

Thank god they also let you play as the far superior Koopalings, even though they don't get trophies when you beat the game with them.
>>
>>267133843
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Gunman
he's not exactly duck hunt. He's the NES zapper character
>>
>>267124894
they really havent
>>
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>>267137295

I've been using the internet since 1997-1998. And yes, I was active on forums and IRC back when Smash Melee came out.

The internet was just different back then. There was mind trolling and bitching. But nothing like what has appeared in the last 10 years. Most people back then were spending more time arguing over which console was superior, but didn't really complain as much about indavidual games.

As the old saying goes, the internet is the largest experiment in anarchy that the world has ever known. And it just gets worse every year. Back 15 years ago, people rallied around certain things. If a new game was announced, it was mostly about the hype for that game. And people still enjoyed the things they had. Now adays, its all about hating things just to get attention. Even when a new game is announced, the majority of people online are just trying to actively find faults with it, not a reason to like it. And 4chan is the biggest example of this.
>>
>>267139164

>People comparing Bowser Jr. to Scrappy Doo

The comparison is perfectly apt. A young, feisty (and annoying) sidekick character is added. Who is also a 'relative' of one of the main characters. And both Scrappy Doo and Bowser Jr have only one role. To block the development of other characters and the story.
>>
>>267116501
>Seriously Sakurai, where the fuck are my Ice Climbers? you can have Birdmen in the stage, surely you can also have a second ice climber

That duck is part of the dogs model while nana has her own model AND her own AI
>>
>>267146323
have you played the earthbound stage?
>>
>>267123914
people whose first nintendo console was wii
>>
>>267146574
The Birdman AI is very simplistic. All they do is run around and attack enemies and I think only one can be out at a time. Nana is a lot more complicated and they would have to account for four of them playing at once.
>>
>>267147675
Just like people who like Bowser Jr. started with the gamecube.
>>
>>267125184
Ey Ash trainer man you we gonna friggan battle here or what
>>
I had another idea for the ice climbers. Why not remake them into flat pixels like how G&W is? Or make the AI less sophisticated? Something. Anything.
>>
>>267148735
G&W is a full 3D model
>>
>>267147942
what do you mean morton first debuted in SMB 3
>>
>>267123914
>>267124725
>>267125689
it's a Rosalina waifufag, don't listen to their lies.

Galaxyfags are the worst
>>
>>267148735
G&W's a 3D model with some effects added onto him to make him flat.

Making the AI less sophisticated probably would've worked but it that would require rewriting Nana's entire code. People tend to misquote Sakurai; it's not that ICs were impossible to do on the 3DS, it's that getting them to work wasn't a priority since they didn't have a future game coming up. In other words, since they weren't repping a relevant franchise, their development got delayed to get the other shit in and there obviously wasn't enough time left to get them working.
>>
>>267151051
>galaxyfags
Is this seriously a thing, is there really infighting between Mario fans of all things?
>>
>>267151737
>Princess fights
>Paper Mario arguments
>Open World vs. Linear level design fights
>SMB3 vs. SMW arguing
like always
>>
>>267151737
galaxy is a terrible game
literally only Wiibabies defend it
>>
>>267116941
>Smash 4 is a camp fest
Smash 4 is only a campfest when this stupid bitch gets involved. It wouldn't really be a big deal, but sometimes it's actually pretty difficult to kill duckhunt 2 times in 4 minutes.
>>
>still caring about the Ice Climbers

you heard Sakurai in thaty interview Shitaku linked

IF A CHARACTER HAS NO FUTURE ITS CUT
>>
>>267151737
Rehash jokes aside, Mario games have their differences so yeah it's to be expected. It's not as vitriolic as some other fanbases such as Sonic, though.
>>
>>267152595
You could say the same for Sunshine and gamecube babbys.
>>
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>>267152802
>IF A CHARACTER HAS NO FUTURE ITS CUT
IT'S HAPPENING
>>
>>267153104
except sunshine was good, or atleast a lot better than galaxy
>>
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>>267151996
>Princess fights

Okay the others I can get but why in the fuck would argue over Mario princesses

what the fuck is there even to argue about
>>
>>267152791

>not using characters with reflect
>not using mac n' cheese to close in on that dogs face

seriously not that hard to KO DA CUNT
>>
>>267153281
I love Sunshine's setting and all but the game has way more faults than Galaxy tbh.
In fact I prefer Sunshine to Galaxy.
>>
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I actually wanted to not main him because he seemed like a such a cheap character, but he's too fucking fun. He also constantly gives me memories of Back to the Future.
>>
>>267153281
>a lot better than galaxy
Both games are good but flawed, a lot moreso in Sunshine's case.
>blue coins
>every single course has a pointless "chase shadow mario mission"
Game had a lot of cool shit, and I liked FLUUD, but it could've been a lot better.
>>
>>267153541
galaxy has flaws up the ass though
>Jumping gets fucked due to bad gravity pull mechanics
>Small worlds often have blind spots you can accidentally jump into the first time you play
>Mario is slow as fuck copared to the other games
>Literal gamecube graphics
>Muh motion cuntrols!
>horrible camera control in a 2007 game, are you fucking kidding me?
>Game is linear as fuck, they tried to give the illusion of it being an open world game with the planets and shit, but it really is super linear when you choose what star you're going to get
>>
>>267153395
>space peach
>sandnigger peach
>hurr Daisy is irrelevant
>hurr Rosalina is Nintendo's lightning
>Rosalina needs her own game now
>Daisy will never get her own game
>Rosalinafags are the worst
>there are people who unironically like Daisy
it's your usual Rei vs Asuka infighting but more stupider.
>>
>>267153395
Let's not beat around the bush. they're mainly fap threads
>>
>>267153934
I didn't say it didn't have faults as well.
I don't agree with most of the ones you listed but this argument bored me, sorry.
>>
>>267116501
It would have been well-received if it hadn't been part of a leak and instead had its own trailer.

Hell, if they'd have done it at e3 with Pacman it'd be a fan-favorite like mega
>>
>>267153919
>blue coins and shadow mario missions are bullshit
>green stars and cosmic mario missions aren't either or worser
it's good when Galaxy does it
>>
>>267154220
He seems well-received anyway, especially when people saw his moveset.
>>
>>267154549
Green stars are boring, but they're on top of the first 120 stars, Shadow Mario and blue coins eat up the only 120 Sunshine has.

Cosmic Mario and Shadow Mario aren't comparable. One is just a glorified speedrun, but it's still better than just chasing a guy and calling it a mission, especially when you can take him out really quickly. The clones introduced in G2 were a lot better than both.
>>
>>267155263
i honestly think the shadow mario missions are trying to test how quick and manuverable you are with the flipping, diving/sliding, and the spraying
>>
I'm really curious about who the next wacky retro representative will be for Smash 5.

I kinda want something that is made of and uses a bunch of different Nintendo products.

>Virtual Boy head
>Power Glove hands
>can use Wiimote+Nunchuk as weapons
>can use Gameboys to deflect attacks

Problem is, what character could they use? Unless they make an OC thats just a robot made up of all the nintendo hardware and accessories
>>
>>267155798
Takamaru.
>>
>>267155798
Well Captain N seems like the obvious choice. Or Nintendo Boy from that Japanese 3DS game.
>>
>>267156263
>Takamaru

Not popular or significant enough. He could be the retro rep in the same vein as Pit, but not like G&W, ROB and Duck Hunt.

>>267156417
Was Captain N official? Nintendo might not care about some gaijin pig toons
>>
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>>267153704
"You have to use your aerials? That's like a baby's toy"
>>
>>267134720
I think the ICs getting cutting is a perfectly reasonable thing to complain about. They're definitely not core Nintendo characters, but people have had over a decade to become attached to them, if they didn't already care about them before that is.

Beyond that, it's also bullshit that they're getting boot entirely due to Nintendo's own technical shortcomings. Of course, the 3DS's weakness is something that can't be changed now. They could put them on the Wii U, but simply choose not to for incomprehensible reasons.

Lastly the "they don't have a future, so who cares" attitude seems like a dangerous one in a fan service game like Smash.
>>
>>267155798
I dunno, maybe a character off a hanafuda card?
Or a guy made out of Tetris blocks. I know Tetris isn't a Nintendo IP, but that'd be awesome to see
>>
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>>267157314
This guy would be perfect for the Hanafuda thing.
>>
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>reminder
>>
I kind of wasn't too happy about DHD when I first saw the leak but he's easily one of my favourite newcomers. Only thing I don't like is his down B, it kind of feels like grasping at straws for a moveset a bit.
I'm most disappointed with Palutena and Rosalina who are just no fun to play at all.
>>
What if they brought Ice Climbers back but only one person is allowed to play as them at a time? :^)
>>
>>267158325
why would they be playing with a 3DS?
>>
>>267124428
Except, you know, ALL the Koopalings.
Thread replies: 169
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