What are the greatest jRPGs of all time? I just finished Chrono Cross for the first time, and the story was a massive trainwreck. I can't believe people were praising this piece of shit.
Pic related, an actual great jrpg.
>we will never get another game like DDS in the series
Maybe it used to be. Everyone and their mom makes sure to remind everyone else how overrated it is just about every time it's brought up. Hell, I remember "FFVII is overrated" posts in like 2008 outnumbering actual FFVII discussion.
What's "technical" about it? They're entirely different from a gameplay perspective and Xenogears has a lot of classic JRPG elements that assures it fits into its genre whereas FFXIII eschews these elements and replaces them with nothing.
I think something that people need to remember is that a game being overrated doesn't mean it's not still good, or can't be a valid favorite. If anything it just means that people need to try out different things, play another game in the genre or whatnot, rather than just sticking with something tried and true. I mean, Chrono Trigger's a favorite of mine since it does so much stuff right. It may be overrated, but that hasn't kept it from being enjoyable.
Reminds me I need to play those games sometime when I get a chance.
>What are the greatest jRPGs of all time?
Entirely subjective. But I'd say:
Dragon Quest IV
Dragon Quest V
Dragon Quest VIII
Seiken Densetsu 3
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VIII
>I just finished Chrono Cross for the first time, and the story was a massive trainwreck. I can't believe people were praising this piece of shit.
>Pic related, an actual great jrpg.
Calling Chrono Cross a train wreck but claiming Xenogears wasn't? I shouldn't have responded to an obvious troll....
Well, Atlus did reprint it (along with every PS2 SMT/Persona game in the end) so it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to buy them if you still haven't played them. That said, you are going to want to pick up the second game as well if you find yourself liking the first.
What kind of a retard plays a game for the music? It's a nice bonus, but at the end of the day gameplay is what matters
which is why Xenogears and FFXIII are pretty much equal.
FF is shit.
DQ is shit.
SMT is shit
Why haven't you recognized the superior JRPG series yet, /v/?
Emulate it if you can. It's a loose retelling of the Digital Devil Story novel but with Nocturne's battle system and actual party members that get fleshed out. One of the better Megami Tensei sub-series in my opinion.
Only thing FFVIII fans can do to defend the game is parrot SPOONY when I don't even know who the fuck that is and it doesn't erase the games myriad flaws.
They were both shit.
>mfw playing DDS2 for the first time right now
Man it's great I like it even more than the first one already after playing 15h.
Only thing FFVIII haters can do to claim their game sucks is point out 'crappy plot twists' and 'shitty gameplay'. When those things can be attributed to every Final Fantasy game.
>games suck because they're popular
>why don't you appreciate the lesser known RPGs!
Also, I love how you claim Dragon Quest sucks, then hype a first person dungeon crawler. When both Dragon Quest and Etrains Odyssey were inspired by Wizardry. And Yuji Horii was the major reason Japan even got into Wizardry.
>tfw I'm a huge pleb who can't into final fantasy
>the only one I managed to beat was Final Fantasy Adventure
>dislkike Chrono Cross
they both have complex plots, thats why I love them.
Quake and CoD were both inspired by Doom too, anon.
Dragon Quest presents a vastly primitivized take on anything Wizardry stood for. The first game had only 4 spells for chrissakes; the latter games have more content but still struggle to match up with even the first Wizardry game from fucking 1981. The games are vastly RNG based and Horii doesn't even hide the fact. EO actually does justice to its inspiration however, reducing the frustrating RNG in favor of logically surmountable difficulty, which depends on how good you become at constructing your party (something DQ has always sucked at).
I recently played Xenogears. Got past the part where you're stuck under the desert with the eyepatch dude.
I quit shortly after that. The game really is not good. The dialogue is really contrived and they make no attempt to cover up any kind of foreshadowing with any kind of subtlety. Citan just outright says THERES ANOTHER PERSON INSIDE YOU like fucking 10 minutes into the game. He also makes it extremely clear that he is not a human being and is some kind of overseer/god. I didn't get far enough to figure it out but I don't want to.
And the gameplay is just so fucking bad. Random encounters are way too common, I'll be trying to walk down a single hallway and get 14 battles. And not the mention the fact that EVERY SINGLE FIGHT up to the point that I stopped could be won by mashing triangle. I actually beat most of the random encounters while reading text messages and spamming buttons.
Even the bosses were just "spam chi bolt" 5 or 6 times and they're dead. You have like 3000 health and bosses do maybe 120 damage per hit so you're never in any danger of dying. The only time I died was against the dinosaur thing in the jungle because I assumed you had to since I couldnt do any damage to it. Once I died I realized I just had to survive a certain number of turns so I just spammed guard and took like 6 damage per hit from a giant dinosaur stepping on me.
Not to mention the cutscenes are very poorly voice acted. There's really no more to be said about that but they were still probably the most enjoyable part of the game.
I don't really understand why people think it was so great. Maybe some will say it gets better after the point that I stopped, but a game taking like 10 hours to get good is not a point in its favor. Plenty of games are good from the beginning or at least shortly after.
>Dragon Quest presents a vastly primitivized take on anything Wizardry stood for.
Easier interface and controls doesn't make a game 'primitive'. Wizardry was needlessly complex and as a result, did not retain its popularity over the years. Now the only one making Wizardry games is a Japanese company.
> The first game had only 4 spells for chrissakes
The first Dragon Quest game had 10 spells. But the fact that you think number of skills = complexity shows how stupid your argument is.
>the latter games have more content but still struggle to match up with even the first Wizardry game from fucking 1981.
So now you're going against your own argument. "The first DQ game didn't have enough content. Later DQ games added more content, but I don't count it because I didn't like it."
>EO actually does justice to its inspiration however, reducing the frustrating RNG in favor of logically surmountable difficulty
Holy duck you're really struggling to find ways that EO is better.
> which depends on how good you become at constructing your party (something DQ has always sucked at).
Yeah. Because you can just rush through Dragon Quest III, VI and VII with any classes or skills. No party customization needed.
Or you're just an idiot who probably hasn't even played the Dragon Quest games.
>The first game had only 4 spells for chrissakes
You really shouldn't talk about things you have no knowledge of.
Anyone else have the problem where they'll BINGE on a jrpg and if they don't finish the game during that binge, It's hard to finish it?
I've not finished a lot of jrpgs because of this
Another thing I'm wondering anyone experiences is the INSANE amount of pressure and anxiety when fighting a jrpg boss? Shit stresses me out
FFI is pretty dated, I wouldn't say this is a good starting point to get into the series
Maybe play it if you want to see where it all started, but other than that it doesn't have much to offer compared to the other games
It barely has any plot since it's an NES game, and most (if not all) versions that aren't the original are pretty much "hold X to win"
Since it seems people are fine with posting SRPGs, the first 4 games for a really nice set together. Still stronger especially setting and story-wise, but the gameplay is pretty good too.
Too bad English release never ever, eh?
I've restarted a number of RPGs because I had to take more than a couple days break between playing.
And I still have never finished Final Fantasy VII because I always get so bored in Disk 2.
2008 was hell for VIfag shitposters disallowing VII discussion of any sort, then when 2009 came and VII hit the PSN, all the little fagets went and replayed VII and realised it's actually still fucking great.
>Easier interface and controls doesn't make a game 'primitive'.
There was nothing particularily complex about Wizardry. Have you even played it? It has a plenty of frustrating elements, but these are due to RNG reliance and not complexity. Meanwhile DQ has its full retard interface that needs you to select commands from a separate menu for every distinct action. Which was ripped from Ultima, but at least in Ultima you could do that on a whim with a keystroke, while in DQ you wait for 4 seconds till the game recognizes your command.
>The first Dragon Quest game had 10 spells. But the fact that you think number of skills = complexity shows how stupid your argument is.
Please elaborate how is DQ more complex than Wizardry and EO then.
>So now you're going against your own argument. "The first DQ game didn't have enough content. Later DQ games added more content, but I don't count it because I didn't like it."
I said that latter DQ games still don't have enough content.
>Holy duck you're really struggling to find ways that EO is better.
"You are an asshat"
>Yeah. Because you can just rush through Dragon Quest III, VI and VII with any classes or skills. No party customization needed.
VI and VII are crappy with customization, most of the classes being an utter waste of time. There's nothing in the game that indicates which ones are good however. III is better off, but still pales in comparison with Wizardry - besides, there are no "skills" in it unless you count spells.
I remember when they were actually starting to develop massive hype for releasing one of the Sakura Taisen games to the west. Then it never happened. Just like Phantasy Star Online 2. I even saw fucking commercials for it at stores...and Sega still hasn't released it in the west.
Sena seriously sucks at localizing games.
xenogears is a
deconstructionof the rpg genre
Yeah I actually heard from a lot of people "if you don't like it already, it's only going to get worse" so that's why I stopped
Really? He seems to know everyone and even had some special name that someone called him that I don't quite remember. He also said stuff like "I'm not like normal people" and "I know much more than most" and it showed him talking to a lot of the villains as if they all respect him. Also he seems like he's omniscient considering how he always knows what to do before it happens.
Oh well, I might read a plot summary or something but I can't finish the game. It's just so boring.
I do thay sometimes. I mostly put them off because theyre longer than any kther games that I play. So most of the time when i play vidya id rather just play counter strike with friends or something than go hook up my ps2 to a crt to play ps2 games.
When i emulate games i have no motivation to complete them.
I have the problem of growing bored of a jrpg after I'm halfway through it. And I hate dropping a rpg before finishing it because it feels like a waste of time.
Of course, it doesnt happen when the plot manages to keep me interested.
I only get stressed on SMT bosses, because they are always a pain to beat and usually I need to grind for levels so I can fuse demons to finally beat the boss. Dropped SMTIV on the last boss because of that. Its time consuming.
I wish people would remember Chrono Cross was supposed to be a stand-alone game but Square forced the devs to turn it into a Trigger sequel.
It's a lot better as it's own game imo
Thanks, they are often facts.
>but at least in Ultima you could do that on a whim with a keystroke, while in DQ you wait for 4 seconds till the game recognizes your command.
Holy crap, you seriously have never played a Dragon Quest game in your life. Just admit it. Dragon Quest has some of the fastest battles in JRPGs. You can initiate, set commands and finish a battle in 10 seconds. The only exception to this is Dragon Quest VIII and IX because of 3D models and full animations in battle. All of the first person DQ games have extremely quick battles.
>Please elaborate how is DQ more complex than Wizardry and EO then.
I never claimed DQ was more complex. You're the idiot claiming DQ is a bad game because it isn't 'complex' enough.
>I said that latter DQ games still don't have enough content.
Which is pretty stupid when you have hundreds of skills, items and options in battle.
>VI and VII are crappy with customization, most of the classes being an utter waste of time.
I won't deny this. But if you think the same isn't the case in Wizardry or EO, you're completely idiotic. Every RPG has certain classes that are superior to others.
>besides, there are no "skills" in it unless you count spells.
Wow...just wow. So stuff like Metal Slash, Padfoot and Eagle Eye are now 'spells'. You seriously don't know what you're talking about.
And even if you do count every single skill in the game as a spell, there's well over 150 'spells' in games like DQVII, VIII and IX.
I think Chrono Cross has pretty good combat but it's pretty sluggish, fights take a long time unless you use the same 3 guys all game, and I can't manage to finish it.
But that wizard guy you recruit right at the beginning of the game is too cool. Like the very first special attack he gets is to teleport his staff into his enemies to destroy their organs, and then he yanks it right out of them. That's some crazy merciless stuff and I love it.
I own three copies of Suikoden II. I collect them
so no one else can. I'm gonna buy more and make a coffee table out of them.
>expecting VI or IX, as always
Based fucking taste, anon
But it was always suppose to be part of the Chrono series. Even if it was not a direct sequel to Chrono Trigger.
There's over 50 direct ties to Chrono Trigger anyway. From the 'Great Adventurer Toma' to more direct connections like Schala and Lucca.
honestly think the game would be much more bearable and coherent with a better translation
>All of the first person DQ games have extremely quick battles.
And yet they still pale with Wizardry and EO, because of how limited the text scroll option is.
You were first saying that DQ is somehow better because it's not as complex however. Then you ragged on my idea of complexity for some reason.
>Which is pretty stupid when you have hundreds of skills, items and options in battle.
How many items can you carry in the inventory again?
How many skills are just stronger/multitarget versions of other skills?
How many skills are useless 1% chance of success status effect bullshit?
How many skills are usable only outside of battle?
>I won't deny this. But if you think the same isn't the case in Wizardry or EO, you're completely idiotic. Every RPG has certain classes that are superior to others.
It's all about the ratio and the amplitude of effectiveness between strong and weak classes. In EO3, even a Wildling can do some pretty great shit. On the other hand, how will a Jester or some shit stand up at late game? Oh wait, probably well, since the game is easy as shit.
>So stuff like Metal Slash, Padfoot and Eagle Eye are now 'spells'
If memory doesn't fail me, those weren't in DQ3.
>this is what this faggot actually believes about Xenogears
You have barely given the rabbit hole a fucking rimjob m8. You know nothing. This game gets Kojima-level and beyond.
Truly, only afternoon /v/ can have such shit taste
just because it was as hard as fuck. I know it was broken with the reel system but but goddamn the glimmers and the lightweight arts made the game so enjoyable deep. Plus it was hamazu's best work in sound IMO
Vagrant Story, in retrospect, has some of the worst gameplay I've ever experienced. There are two ways to play the game: correctly and incorrectly. If you play the game correctly by constantly swapping between a minimum of three weapons (through a clunky menu system with no quick-swap options) to avoid lowering any affinities, the game rapidly becomes so absurdly easy that you can and will one-combo any boss in the game.
If you play it "incorrectly" the game rapidly becomes unplayable.
I'm fine with a game being impossible if you play it wrong. The problem is that the game becomes press-button-to-win if you play it right. There is no middle ground.
On top of this, most of the offered mechanics are totally without use or merit. Offensive magic even with a full magic build is shit, even taking advantage of Risk's risk/reward. Every Limit Break except one (the ranged Greatsword LB, for hitting distant enemies in a couple situations such as if you built an anti-dark melee weapon and you're at the last boss) is worthless.
And there's only really two chain abilities worth comboing.
That said, the music is godlike, the atmosphere is intense, the script is spectacular, the characters are memorable, and the art design is breathtaking.
So basically everything about Vagrant Story except the actual gameplay (which could have been SO easily made as great as the rest) is 11/10.
>And yet they still pale with Wizardry and EO, because of how limited the text scroll option is.
So basically you're bitching about UI options. You do realize a lot of people don't like the UI of Wizardry or EO, right?
>If memory doesn't fail me, those weren't in DQ3.
It does fail you. Padfoot and Eagle Eye were introduced in Dragon Quest III. Though padfoot was called something else in the Dragon Warrior translation.
>How many items can you carry in the inventory again?
Infinite. With 12-16 items placed on a single character. For someone who keeps obsessing over complexity and customization, you better not claim an item limitation is a drawback.
>How many skills are just stronger/multitarget versions of other skills?
How many are in Wizardry or EO? And Multitarget? The entire reason Dragon Quest works is the group combat engine. The difference between single, group and all field spells is the entire point of Dragon Quest.
>How many skills are useless 1% chance of success status effect bullshit?
You're literally only talking about one item. The poison needle/dart. All the skills that do instant criticals or whatever have a higher rate than 1%. Once again pointing out that you really don't know what you're talking about.
>How many skills are usable only outside of battle?
So now you're complaining not every single skill is a combat skill? Holy crap dude. You really want them to take away Zoom, Evac, Whistle and padfoot from Dragon Quest? Because that's just fucking dumb.
FF4 is the best FF. It's not the best jrpg for me because later you find out that everyone, besides Tellah, is alive. That was fucking retard.
Ys 1 is another great jrpg. The bump system is original and the difficult of the game is CUHRAZY, but it's still fun.
Does Vagrant Story even count, though? It's more of a dungeon crawler than anything else. It just happens to have quality story and characters because Ivalice team.
Between weapon combining and customization, the gameplay doesn't bother me. First time playing on my first playthrough, I couldn't beat that crab in the Undercity West to save my ass. Spent so much time killing undead and mans in that area that my weapon was good for little else -except- undead and humans...
>no breath of fire
Let's change that.
I have to agree. Fantastic story, music, and some of the best visuals of its era, but the actual gameplay is probably the worst I've ever put up with. If that intro wasn't so compelling I'd have dropped the game so fucking fast.
Dragon Quarter is the best BoF.
BoF 3 is good for nostalgia but it's a pretty generic rpg otherwise, BoF 4 looks really good but it's pretty much a fetch quest till the last 10% or so.
>Cecil stands there and does nothing while 3/4 the characters sacrifice themselves
>nevermind, they all are okay except Tellah
Final Fantasy IV is the epitome of shitty story in an RPG. Final Fantasy really needs to learn that character deaths have no impact unless the characters actually get solid development before the death. And they've done so many character deaths over the series that you don't even care anymore.
Cecil is the best FF protagonist.
i've tried like 5 times and i just cannot get into xenogears it just starts up so slowly i always get a bit further but such a large time gap between plays occurs that i need to restart
I don't think anyone will argue that the game isn't a mess, but the plot manages to stay interesting at that point, which is all anyone really remembers fondly about it anyway.
Xenogears' story make sense even without Perfect Works, if I could understand it when I was 13 it's really not hard to understand.
Perfect Work just give some additional information and deepen the setting, Xenogears is perfectly self-contained otherwise
Technically not an RPG, but still a worthy mention.
But plenty of other games have been listed.
But the major issue is that Final Fantasy is the second most advertised JRPG series outside of Pokemon. So of course it'll be the most popular.
Not really. Mednafen is better for accurate and PCSX-R for enhanced emulation.
Yeah, it's cool if you still like to use ePSXe but don't recommend it to someone looking for an emulator.
Because the general public is conformist, and susceptible to marketing.
Without Perfect Works it's only an overtly complex "escape evil gubbmint" later turned into "save princess from God mindcontrolled by a pair of cunts from evil gubbmint"
I played it a little late but I still manage to have nostalgia for it.
I remember being curled up in bed late night with the lights off hearing that battle music
>it's only an overtly complex "escape evil gubbmint" later turned into "save princess from God mindcontrolled by a pair of cunts from evil gubbmint"
And? You know that basically anything can be ridiculed like this right?
To be precise, PCSX-R allows you to use better plugins like
>Pete's OpenGL2 2.9 - More accurate and compatible than OpenGL 1.78. It allows you to set a custom rendering resolution for within the fullscreen box, aka window resolution and has support for shaders. Unfortunately this plugin is closed source and wasn't updated for years. A hack was made to add GTE accuracy, and a few other options: PeteOpenGL2Tweak.
only series i managed to beat where i
hated the main characteri also didn't enjoy the fact that they treat the robots like people it's like me loving my coffee maker if it talked and shot laser beams at aliens
Suikoden 2 is probably in Top 5 JRPGs for the PS1 and that's saying something considering the competition. Such a shame it was overshadowed at the time by big name titles.
Love me some grandia 2 on dreamcast.
>Suikoden 2 and 3 are generally considered the best RPGs of all time, at least on their respective systems (PSX & PS2)
My sides are in orbit.
>Yeah, it's cool if you still like to use ePSXe but don't recommend it to someone looking for an emulator.
I've always heard that PCSX-R was better and I've been using it for a while, but recently it just went full retard on me. Started playing FFVII, it worked just fine for like two hoursn and then it decided to say "fuck off" and stop detecting my controller
It was pretty weird because I could still map the controls in the menu but it just didn't do shit ingame
I switched to Mednafen because I don't really do anything crazy with the PS1 plugins anyway, but I'm still wondering what the hell happened
>best RPGs of all time
Debatable but most would agree it's at least in the contention. There's certainly no widespread agreement it "definitely" being the best though. By any stretch.
There are a ton of people who hate Suikoden 3 and it's "pair up" battle system, its chibi battle models, and what it did to Suikoden 1's story. I still think it was a good RPG but it's not even remotely close to being in contention for best of all time, or even its system. There's way, way better. Opening was godlike though.
Suikoden V is easily better than III, and either better than or as good as II.
You missed my point completely. What I'm saying is that the game barely if ever elaborates on any other of its nuances. All of that gnostic shit only gets namedropped and names attached to random robots and somehow the player is supposed to know the story importance of those.
Suikoden II maybe. But very few people like Suikoden III. And I've never heard anyone claim it was the best RPG on PS2.
Even myself who is the biggest Suikoden fag around will admit Dragon Quest VIII was better. And most people will say FFX is the best on PS2.
Suikoden III had the potential to be the best. But Konami is notorious for underfunding Suikoden games. And even the creator of Suikoden pointed out the game was rushed and under funded. That's why he left Konami.
ARR may be a MMORPG, but is surely one of the greatest Japanese made RPGs ever made.
Suikoden 3 actually got better scores than any other Suikoden across the board, true story.
It's disliked by hardcore fans of 2 since it tried to do so something different but it pretty much has the best narrative in the series.
>Final Fantasy really needs to learn that character deaths have no impact unless the characters actually get solid development before the death.
Speaking of which, so does Mother.
I remember it took me weeks to beat Calamity for the first time when I was a kid. I'm replaying Xenogears now and just fought Calamity again earlier and I was scared as shit and dreading the encounter, but ended up taking him down on my first try. I must have been terrible at video games when I was younger.
>and what it did to Suikoden 1's story.
What did Suikoden III ever do to the story of Suikoden I? Nearly every character the came back in Suikoden III was tied to Suikoden II or the Giaden games.
>mfw no Sierra, Tengaar or Viktor in Suikoden III
>not one mention of legend of dragoon
Probably because it's only setting stuff that has no real incidence on the narrative.
Perfect Work give a neat deeper look into the story but that's all, Xenogears by itself is perfectly self-contained.
I heard everyone say Xenogears is an amazing game yet I also heard it's incomplete. Does is just not have a proper ending or something?
Think i'll give it a try here soon after I finish up Grandia, which i'm really enjoying.
Just started the second disc here recently.
>tfw no adventurer gf like Feena
There's a point in time when the PSX era RPGs kinda exploded in size, becoming multiple discs with FMVs littered throughout and 3d models of everything and yadda yadda. I guess this probably happened around FFVII.
I liked JRPGs before this. After they weren't so bad, but they were at their peak then, building on what the SNES established but using the PSX's greater hardware to push boundaries.
Then it became all about who could anime up a FMV hardest, FFVIII being probably the worst offender while still having hints of a decent game.
I miss that era so much, before the PSX even had sticks. It was comfy as fuck.
>It's disliked by hardcore fans of 2 since it tried to do so something different but it pretty much has the best narrative in the series.
More like its hated by hardcore fans of Suikoden V. Despite Suikoden V having the least ties to the Suikoden series.
01 - Chrono Trigger.flac
02 - Secret of the Forest.flac
03 - Memories of Green.flac
04 - Courage and Pride.flac
05 - Ruined World.flac
06 - Boss Battle 2.flac
07 - At the Bottom of Night.flac
08 - Undersea Palace.flac
09 - To Far Away Times.flac
10 - Battle with Magus.flac (Brink of Time)
11 - The Brink of Time.flac (Brink of Time)
12 - Corridors of Time.flac (Brink of Time)
13 - Under the Moonlight.flac
14 - Frozen Flame.flac
15 - Footsteps.flac
16 - Last Words.flac
17 - A Store Keeper.flac
18 - Invasion.flac
19 - Sneak and Attack.flac
20 - Electrical Indian.flac
21 - Your Name Is... (Summer Resort Guitar Mix).flac
22 - Dark Daybreak.flac
23 - Emotions.flac
24 - Stage of Death.flac
25 - Knight of Fire.flac
26 - June Mermaid.flac
27 - Shevat ~ The Wind is Calling.flac
28 - Gathering Stars in the Night Sky.flac
29 - Flight.flac
30 - The Wide, Wide Ocean.flac
31 - Mini Game Island.flac
32 - Ducking and Dodging.flac
33 - Rainbow Castle.flac
34 - Eternal Star.flac
35 - Silver Leica.flac
36 - Another Termina.flac
37 - Isle of the Damned.flac
38 - Home Guldove.flac
39 - Chronopolis.flac
40 - Orphanage in Flames.flac
41 - Those Imprisoned by Fate.flac
42 - Radical Dreamers ~The Jewel That Has Not Been Stolen~.flac
43 - Lost Planet Alcatraz.flac
44 - Ocean Planet Aquanet.flac
45 - Game Planet Starlight.flac
46 - It's OK to Cry.flac
47 - Battle - Level 1.flac
48 - The Pub.flac
49 - Navi Fairy.flac
50 - Valley of the Goblins.flac
51 - Maya.flac
52 - Path to Enlightenment.flac
53 - U.M.N. MODE.flac
54 - Blanka Stage.flac
55 - A Flow of Scorching Heat.flac
56 - The Forest of Lapis Lazuli.flac
57 - As Autumn Passes Away.flac
58 - Circle of Eternity.flac
59 - Temple of the Sand Coffin.flac
60 - Luminous Rain.flac
61 - Activate! Burning Phase.flac
62 - Opening.flac
>yet I also heard it's incomplete. Does is just not have a proper ending or something?
2nd disc is 'unfinished' because FF8 took resources from xenogears' overdue development.
It's still a good, complete game how it is.
I won't lie I'm very nostalgic about it. I played it at a young age and despite it's flaws, I still enjoy it.
Others I can think of are DW3 on the game boy color, and shining force CD.
"Setting stuff" should most definitely have at least some incidence on the narrative. Otherwise it's the equivalent of the creators waving their e-peen around because they've read Freud and the Bible.
>BINGE on a jrpg and if they don't finish the game during that binge, It's hard to finish it
Same thing happens to me. I also have a problem where I can't play a game unless I know everything that is missable and I won't skip any of it, even if it takes hours to get a single missable thing. I will make sure I find the most accurate walkthrough before I play. I get so burnt out I never make it far in any JRPG doing all this, which is probably why I haven't finished a JRPG since Xenogears/FF9. I wish I could stop caring about that kind of shit, but it feels impossible. Pretty much stopped being bothered to play them even though they were always my favorite genre.
>Suikoden 3 actually got better scores than any other Suikoden across the board, true story.
It also sold the most of any game in the series. Honestly, I still like the game. And it has probably the largest and most complex story in the series. But I still have to point out how it was horribly under funded and could have been much better. Especially the character models and the really weak ending.
My top 5 in no specific order:
Skies of Arcadia
it's because suikoden 3 sounds good on paper, but the lack of funding undermines the execution
>three different narratives with separate stories before converging
>they all take you through the same areas because BUDGET
it's things like that really bring suikoden 3 down, especially after amazing last installment
>Such a shame it was overshadowed at the time by big name titles.
Its just the fault of Konami for never marketing the games. Yet expecting them to rival Final Fantasy. Konami killed Suikoden years before the PS2 titles even came out.
Also, fun fact. Suikoden I came out before Final Fantasy VII. So its not like Konami has any excuse.
Suikoden aren't known for their endings.
Basically every Suikoden except 3 ends up with someone that dies/doesn't die depending on whether you have the 108 stars
In Suikoden 3 the final ending with the 108 stars is actually pretty damn powerful and ties the game perfectly thematically
Suikoden III and Chrono Cross are the two biggest RPGs that need a remake, but will never get it.
>mfw both Gaidens got translated
Especially because Suikogaiden 2 is the only link between S2 and S3, set some time AFTER the former.
Who cares when most real Suikoden fans (those who started playing with 1 and/or 2) think it's phenomenal? It's only the casuals who started after 3 that think it's a bad game.
It was like a warm blanket of pure goodness. Plus GTAV ripped it off with the three protags.
Man its funny when you people try to pass your shit tastes as fact.
>this game is amazing guys, it would have been the best if more people had played it instead of final fantasy
It's not as great as its most fervent fanboys make it out to be, but I would't call it absolute shit.
>Suikoden aren't known for their endings.
Huh? The endings are some of the most memorable parts of the Suikoden series for me. Different anon.
II = V > III > I >>> FUCKING BOAT
The creator of Suikoden has said Suikoden III was going to lead into a fourth game. Where all the sorrounding nations fight the Harmonia Empire. And if you pay attention very closely to the story in Suikoden I-III, you can see why. Since members of the Harmonia Empire are basically responsible for starting the wars in all the previous games.
But Suikoden III was so rushed and under funded, the creator had to throw together a weak ending about the True Runes and not tie the story to Luc. Basically the entire Luc/Sindar plot, which was suppose to be the main plot, became regulated as a side plot.
>BoF 3 is good for nostalgia but it's a pretty generic rpg otherwise, BoF 4 looks really good but it's pretty much a fetch quest till the last 10% or so.
I don't know. For me the question of 3 or 4 was always a matter of preference and they always occupied in the same place in my mind.
Honestly, Square dominated the market for a long time and created the gold standard. Because they were so successful, they could also simply put more money and more quality into their games than other companies. They actively sniped the most talented people from other companies.
You've also got an interesting situation where some other lesser known RPGs like
were proposed to Square, but turned down and bought by other companies (Sony in that case). So sometimes we'd literally just get the stuff Square didn't think was good enough to make from other publishers.
Dark Cloud 2 definitely fits the bill as my all time favorite console-RPG. Followed closely by FFT and Xenoblade. Xenogears used to be in the place that Xenoblade was, but Xenoblade felt like the refined version of Xenogears.
So yes, I still hold Gears in high regards, absolutely.
As for Chrono Cross, I agree that the story is shit tier., but I highly enjoyed the combat and the exploration.
>you're not a REAL fan if you disagree
Kindly fuck off.
III was a good game but II and V are better. That's my opinion. I started with Suikoden I when it first came out, horrifying box art and all. I expected another shitty game like Beyond the Beyond and was pleasantly surprised.
If you like III best, good for you, but not everyone loves III. A lot of people who began with I and II didn't care for it, the chibi models, the split story, the rehashed areas, etc.
Still a great RPG but hardly in contention for a game to be called universally recognized as a contender for the best RPG ever, or even on its platform.
>Does is just not have a proper ending or something?
It has an ending. It's just that they had to rush the fuck out of Disc 2 (lack of resources and possibly time). It feels like a visual novel interrupted by gameplay every now and then. It changes really suddenly too. It's off-putting, but not enough for some people (me included) to stop playing it. You'll just probably wish the game could have been what it was originally intended to be.
>Why the fuck would they need remakes?
Because both games had massive parts of the game left out because of rushed development. A remake = improved graphics. It implies added content and story fixes. Which Suikoden III and Chrono Cross are the games that need this the most.
2=3 > 5 > 1 > Tactics > 4
2 has the best package overall, 3 has the best narrative, 5 is more like a retelling of 2 more than anything and succeed at being pretty fun but it's probably too long for it's own good, 1 is nice for a first attempt but it's generally a short and not very remarkable game.
Tactics is actually a pretty good T-rpg if pretty easy, 4 is just BOAT
>If you like III best, good for you, but not everyone loves III. A lot of people who began with I and II didn't care for it, the chibi models, the split story, the rehashed areas, etc.
such a shame it took konami until suikoden 5 to get 3d right
III and IV are fantastic still.
II is my personal favorite because of the cast, but it hasn't aged wonderfully. Still a great game.
You can probably pass entirely on the first game.
reading through this thread reveals that most of my favourite games apparently suck.
My first RPG was Secret Of Mana. No matter how flawed it is, I can't help but love the shit out of it. Seiken Densetsu 3, Chrono Trigger, and FFVI captured the same magic by creating the sort of journey I wanted to take in a game.
Pokemon Blue when it first came out was amazing, if it counts here.
I haven't played many others, but FFX and Xenoblade were amazing. Ni No Kuni had some great qualities, but not GOAT.
Suikoden 2 would probably be the best looking 2D game on PS1 had Legend of Mana not happened. Things that game did with pre-rendered backgrounds and characters sprites to that poor old PS1 should be illegal.
FFs: IV, V, VI and VII,
7 being the best one. But it was so successful that it somehow broke square and I hate everything they made after that, including "compilation".
Pretty elementary stuff, yeah, mainly because I don't like them too cartoonish, so I don't like the majority of jrpgs.
I still have a lot on a list to play
>That's my opinion.
And you're welcome to your opinion. But please don't bitch when other people have a different opinion.
I dislike Suikoden IV and V because they are basically self contained stories about true runes. And not actually tied to Suikoden I-III aside from a couple weak character cameos.
What made Suikoden unique as an RPG series was the ongoing, connected plots. Which Suikoden IV and V completely killed making them self contained prequels in a whole other land. Then you have Suikoden on DS and PSP which are in a whole different universe entirely.
The developers of Suikoden no longer care about consistency. They are just making generic RPGs with runes and 108 characters.
I remember playing it when I was around 7/8 and enjoying it, but for some reason the fact that stats/abilities are affected by that mentor system always causes me to avoid replaying 3/4.
I love that they have fishing tournaments in that game. I also love rebuilding towns and giving people hope for the future. In fact, that's a part of the reason why I love Xenoblade so much, rebuilding Colony 6 was very satisfying.
how about a saner version? you're so stuck on narrative. there's more to these games and that's where 3 falters the most, particularly the combat.
>you're just objecting change!
change doesn't automatically make something better. going from six characters to three was a fuckup and that's crux of the issue. also early ps2 3d was not that great and the game was obviously butchered to get it done on deadline.
>But please don't bitch when other people have a different opinion.
No one was bitching at you because you had a different opinion. People were bitching at you because you started bawwwing about review scores and how only REAL fans of the series could possibly disagree with you, and how anyone who thought differently was a casual newfag who got late into the series, like you're parroting some retarded "only people who started with FF7 could possibly think it was a good game."
>I also hate actions rpgs
You're about this baka.
You know, start from the beginning and play thigs like Ys, Faxanadu and Popful Mail, it might change your opinion on action RPGs.
To me FFX is like the worst and best game ever made at the same time. As if they made a team with the most and least talented people in the world to make a game.
It's hard to explain.
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Dragon Quest V
Lunar: The Silver Star & Eternal Blue
Etrian Odyssey I, III, IV
Final Fantasy V, VII, XII
SMT I/II/If are fundamentally flawed so much that no remakes can changed that. Heck, they all already got enhanced ports on the PS1, GBA and IOS and that didn't make them any better. If a game is good then it doesn't need a remake. If it does then that means it was never good to begin with
I don't hold Xenogears in particularly high regard. I think it could have been an absolutely amazing game, but it failed to live up to that potential.
That said, the first things that come to mind for me when I try to recall the best JRPG's I've played are:
Shadow Hearts 1 and 2
Suikoden 2, 3, and 5
Grandia 2 (I really need to play the first one)
The World Ends With You
Romancing Saga: Minstrel Song
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
X-2 is shit because "gurl power", second worse version of the ATB system due to really dumb glitches, horribly imbalanced glasses, and 99% recycled content.
I don't feel like discussing why FFX is good.
>voice acting suck
No, it was perfect.
But Suikoden IV and V had even worse combat. Just because a game imitates Suikoden II, that doesn't mean it was as good. And that's the problem so many Suikoden V fans have.
Suikoden V literally had a 10 hour prologue with only scripted battles. Then very little gameplay outside of the narrative. The game was literally 'go to the next town, watch 5 hours of cutscenes, then 1 hour of battles, repeat for every town'. And even the combat itself was a weak imitation of Suikoden II. With horribly slow rotoscoped character animations.
Suikoden III may have been rushed, but the combat still had some redeeming features. Especially the upgrade system. There's nothing more fulfilling than getting Emily to full S rank in Speed and Attack, then hitting enemies 15 times a turn for 4000 damage per hit.
No. It's going to be a pretty hallway simulator with QTEs and floaty Kingdom Hearts shittery.
This is all we'll get for the next several years in the form of Noctis' saga (XV, XV-2, XV-3) before word of the actual savior, XVI.
Cheesy stories are no news for this franchise tbh
>second worse version of the ATB system
Which one is worse? What makes this one bad?
>really dumb glitches
>horribly imbalanced glasses
It's not like FF was ever balanced tho
>99% recycled content
That shouldn't be a problem if you liked it in FFX
The Japanese version pretty nice all around. Although I like the PCE CD one better than Sega CD.
I think they got a gravure idol for the voicing. Or maybe it was some other game...
>People were bitching at you because you started bawwwing about review scores and how only REAL fans of the series could possibly disagree with you
That wasn't me. I was the one saying Suikoden III could have been better if it wasn't rushed by Konami.
Stop associating all Suikoden III fans as being the same person.
They are flawed gems that are fairly easy to fix by doing some relatively minor alterations. Hell, just speeding up the pace of the games, revamping the interface and making a soundtrack that doesn't consist of 30 second loops would make them much more enjoyable. What exactly about them can't be fixed while maintaining their spirit?
>start up Suikoden V recently
>over 15 minutes before you have any control of your character
>suikoden 2 is like 5 minutes including the opening cut-scene
I think the genre died for me because my patience did as I grew older.
SE is in dire straits.
can you explain? as a person who beat FFX 3 times I would like to hear your opinion
Are you using a new version? There's a new SVN released pretty much every day. And the official version is old.
Anyway, memory cards get created automatically when you furst run it. Maybe try formatting them if you can't save for some reason.
>Cheesy stories are no news for this franchise tbh
Only excusable with a good cast. X-2's cast features some of the worst characters in the series (Brother, Shinra, ect.).
>Which one is worse?
IX thanks to the painfully slow animations.
Characters getting stuck on enemies and running in place, unable to do anything. Happened several times during my time with the game.
>It's not like FF was ever balanced
>over 15 minutes before you have any control of your character
You didn't miss much. Its over 10 hours before you actually get to go anywhere besides where the game tells you. With the only battles being the few scripted battles in the arena.
Suikoden V has one of the longest prologues in gaming.
>Only excusable with a good cast. X-2's cast features some of the worst characters in the series (Brother, Shinra, ect.).
I can't think of a FF which didn't have at least one insufferable faggot. I'll agree that the villains are pisspoor though.
>IX thanks to the painfully slow animations.
And what's bad about X-2?
>Characters getting stuck on enemies and running in place, unable to do anything. Happened several times during my time with the game.
Did you emulate it?
Even if it applies to FFX too?
Skies of Arcadia is best jarpig. If you disagree you are simply wrong.
Some of those Spehda rewards though, man.
Most of them are really slow-paced. Due to the constant random encounters and really long combat animations, it takes forever to do anything. The plot also tends to move pretty slowly, but it's also generally pretty good; as are the characters. If you can put up with the slow pace, 2-4 aren't bad overall.
Dragon Quarter is a somewhat unique game, and easily the best game in the series. I'd give it a try regardless of how you feel about the others.
>Xenoblade feels like a refined xenogears
Yeah, You're retarded
>SE is in dire straits.
"Let's spend 10 years putting 90% of our development funding and marketing behind one series."
"Holy crap we're hemorrhaging money! We need to merge with Enix!"
"Okay, we stopped the bleeding with Enix fronting the bill. Now we can get back to even more expensive Final Fantasy games!"
"Holy crap why are we losing money!"
Square execs and shareholders are literally retarded. If they didn't have Enix and Edios games covering them, they would have died 15 years ago.
These are the titles that I greatly enjoyed while minimizing the stereotypical dumb things about RPGs.
Phantasy Star 4
Dragon Quest 7
Professor Layton: Unwound Future
Lufia 2, Suikoden 1&2, Grandia 1&2, Bof 3&4, and Skies of Arcadia may have the genre cliches, but they're certainly great fucking games.
That would pass except Final Fantasy has always focused on story over gameplay. Even in the NES/SNES games. So they brought it upon themselves.
Other JRPG series still balanced gameplay and story. Final Fantasy just sucks at it.
I love Shining force 1&2 so fucking much
Is that image supposed to indicate some correlation between how developers look and their games?
>two regular developers
>one day I'll burn this place down
Well, yes. They're a public company.
I wish Wada was gone. But he just was demoted from head CEO to the leader of the shareholders committee. So basically, he's still the most influential guy in Square. Since he owns the most shares in the company.
We will never be rid of Wada.
It's tragic that Minstrel Song didn't garner more attention. It's a fantastic game. No matter how many times I replay it, it still feels fresh and I still find new things to do.
Yet they claim FFXIII was a huge hit for selling 6.5 million copies, but won't release the profit reports for it. Something tells me even 6.5 million copies sold didn't make up the development and marketing costs for the game. And Square is so embarrassed about that, they won't release the numbers on it.
gameplay: very good. maybe a little too simple but they didn't fuck it up by making it real time yet and the chance to change characters in battle adds a lot.
story and characters: absolutely the worse and couldn't get to like any character
environment: amazing, the world is pretty beautiful.
music: I've listened to the soundtrack many times and half of the songs sound like the best thing ever made for videogames while the other half is just random sound effects without even a melody. How can it have such good and bad music at the same time. Turns out it was the first time nobuo worked with help of other people, and only made half of the soundtrack. And for the other half apparently they hired a deaf person.
Suikoden 2 is great but not for the visuals. Vagrant Story, FFIX and Legend of Mana are probably the best looking games on PS1. Square just knew how to squeeze the most out of the system.
>Final Fantasy XIV is considered a huge success
>only 500,000 active players after 2 million people originally signed up
>Dragon Quest X is considered a failure
>won't release it outside Japan
>300,000 active players in JUST Japan alone
>Bravely Default is considered a massive hit when it sells 900,000 copies worldwide
>Chrono Trigger DS is considered a failure when it 'only' sells 1 million worldwide
>Dragon Quest is completely ignored when it sells 1.5 million outside Japan
This company is literally retarded.
He actually came up with the entire idea of Guardian Cross, and was specifically responsible for the battle system of Deadman's Cross. So he's doing shit, just nothing anyone wants him to.
I remember hearing in the last few years some dude was trying to add a z-buffer in some gpu plugin, and that he was able to get it working in Twisted Metal or some such? Has there been any progress on this at all? I think it was gpuBlade?
>True widescreen option for 3D games
this has actually been implemented?
Number of units sold =/= profit made. Especially when FFXIII was regulated to bargain bins 2 months after it released and a huge amount of the 'units' sold were at $20/3800 yen. Compared to the $60/9800 yen price at launch.
vagrant story was the shit. shame it takes emulating it in higher resolution to bring out some of the details because ps1 was running in resolution for ants.
>add a z-buffer in some gpu plugin
Yes, that's what GTE Accuracy is.
>>True widescreen option for 3D games
>this has actually been implemented?
Yes. Won't work for games with prerendered backgrounds though.
Since suikoden 2 has been mentioned already I'll go with my second favorite/most memorable
What seriously got me was the fact tha healing magic and offensive was scaled differently, making every character useful even Aisha who had shit scaling in everything but compassion. So needed for bigger fights like 10fs saruin and solo death. Game needs to have its mechanics looked and used by others
>good supporting characters
>amazing voicework, possibly the best dub I've heard in that generation
>fun combat, but recycled/color swap enemies
>visual that has aged poorly
When the game was out, it was the #1 RPG for me. Now, it's been long replaced by DQ8.
There are quarterly and yearly fiscal reports.
You can see profit, revenue, and future projections.
What is it that 'they are telling us' that is a lie?
I wouldn't say its a great game overall.
It has one of the best stories told in vidya gaem history. But the way it is told (sloppy translation, 2nd Disc rush) is dragging it down quite a bit.
Also the combat/gameplay is a bareboned mess. It has really cool look of it (combos, animations, fukken mechs), but it all falls flat in how its executed. Halfway through the game I was avoiding combat as much as possible due to how boring it was, and I have nothing against turn based stuff.
Oh and the soundtrack is fucking amazing, Mitsuda knows his shit.
I always grab the newest. If something's clearly broken, or the update notes sound suspicious, just grab a version from few days ago or go back to stable as the last resort.
Don't forget too look up what plugins to use and what settings to activate to get the best results.
>Dragon Quest X is considered a failure
>No one's said this...
Practically every media outlet claimed it was when Dragon Quest X released. And Square execs also claimed it was weak because it didn't sell 2 million copies in its first week, just like every other DQ game. Despite it being the best selling and most played MMO in Japanese history.
Are there any jRPGs in a crime/thriller sorta setting? I see some people call the Yakuza series RPGs, but while they have some RPG elements they're not really what I'm after (great series though, fucking SEGA) though.
Reports of the entire company is not releasing figures on indavidual games.
SquareEnix is also heavily bias towards Final Fantasy. For example, they claimed FFXIII was the thing that turned their company around in 2010. While not even mentioning Dragon Quest IX selling 5.5 million copies in Japan in the same year.
>no Star ocean
Good thing I dropped this fucking board on 2007.
>one of the best stories told in vidya gaem history
Can't say I disagree. No other game have I been able to go back and play again fully.
Source on this shit? I'm a big DQ fan and read every news that comes out about it, yet I've never seen anyone complain about DQX, except for the shitty 3DS port that isn't relevant to the subject.
dumb japanese executives
I'm not saying FF was shakespeare before but holy shit how they ruined it
If there's ever another atomic bomb or earthquake in Japan I hope its in squares headquarters. anyone with talent probably left long ago
>Look like shit
>Reports of the entire company is not releasing figures on indavidual games.
But publishers do do that.
>Pfft, no one said this.
>Dragon Quest X Posts Poor Sales Figures In Japan
>Dragon Quest X Is Not Meeting Sales Expectations
>Dragon Quest X Tanks On Wii U
Literally every report of Dragon Quest X was how it 'failed' because it didn't sell 5 million copies. Overlooking the fact that it was the fastest selling MMO in Japanese history. Outpacing Final Fantasy XI in its first 2 years.
>no English translation
Great! I'll grab my stuff!
Chrono Cross reads like an attempt to the the latter half of Xenogears correctly, but it gets fucked up.
Instead of freeing Elly from Deus, you have to free Schala from Lavos.
Instead of Solaris monitoring save points, it's Chronopolis.
I kinda consider the Chrono and Xeno games to be two halves of the same series, though.
I beat Xenogears twice and didn't really get why people liked it that much. The plot is way overwritten, the gameplay is lackluster as hell, and my God is disc 2 a fucking train wreck.
But they didn't do it for Final Fantasy XIII. They only pointed out how many units it sold. Not how much 'profit' was made.
Do you people even know the difference? If FFXIII took 80 million to make and had 350 million in advertising, yet only made 350 million in sales, then it didn't make up the difference of what it cost to make.
Also they made DQ9 a multiplayer game.
With no online mode.
A multiplayer game that can only be played locally. In the year 2010 or something like that.
Doom had an online mode in 1994 and it didn't even need it because it had a decent singleplayer. DQ9 sucks in singleplayer.
Suikoden I and II were both shit. Story was average, storytelling was complete garbage, general gameplay was shit, army battles were complete shit, the music wasn't that good. the game was too easy, the cast of characters was pointlessly large since the vast majority of them were basically NPCs with 1 line of background info, if that.
Let's be honest here, the only people who claim Suikoden 1/2 are masterpieces are delusional and need to take off their nostalgia goggles.
Yet Drago nQuest IX has a number of Guiness World Records for most downloaded online content in a game and 'most used spotpass' game.
The awards are very stupid, but does point out why Dragon Quest IX was the best selling DQ game in Japan. And was successful.
These articles are citing the WiiU version.
Only one of them talk of the Wii and initial launch version and is speculation based on SE's overall financial health not long after XIV bombed and they began rebuilding it.
This is far from practically media outlet you exaggerating piece of horseshit.
as long as they can keep sucking on the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest tits they'll survive.
Not do well but at least survive.
They could release a Call of Duty game and put Final Fantasy in the title and that would give them some money.
I fucking hope they all die.
Very similar to SNES battle system and world map style unit movements. Splitting up your army to attack certain paths.
64 version had a bunch of different endings.
Sprite graphics and battle animations were phenomenal
>Not how much 'profit' was made.
Very few publishers, if any, announce profit on individual products. This is because very few publishers publicly announce budgets for these games.
Star Ocean is not any more than average. You have shit taste.
>series works on pretense of scifi
>it's actually 10% scifi 90% fantasy
The only thing remarkable about that series is the amount of unique items and item creation in general.
>a bucn hfo sites are claiming DQX failed
>but they're not talking about them correctly so they're invalid!
I can't tell if you're a DQ defender or just a cherry picker trying to defend your argument. Either way, you're an idiot.
Game itself is slightly above average, but the soundtrack is mindblowing.
SquareEnix announced the profit margins for FFXIII-2. Citing how it was very successful. Yet they didn't for the first FFXIII game.
It just makes SquareEnix look like they're hiding something.
>SquareEnix announced the profit margins for FFXIII-2. Citing how it was very successful.
No, they didn't.
And why would you believe SE telling you 13-2 is very successful and not believe SE telling you 13 was a hit?
I am a massive DQ fag. But Dragon Quest VII has a number of issues that kept it from being one of the best JRPGs. Mostly related to focusing on story over exploration, losing party members because of a lack of a wagon, lack of description for classes (having to level classes to find out if they're useful) and pretty weak graphics for its day.
I'm hoping the 3DS remake fixes most of these. But we are never getting it outside Japan so I can't confirm.
>shits on chrono cross
top shelf lel m8