>just beat the extremely annoying and tedious Earth and Wind temples after a few hours in each
>just wanna fucking kill Ganondorf already
>"Nope sorry. Here is a treasure hunt for the triforce pieces that expands the entire map."
>having a chart translated by Tingle costs a small fortune
>need 8 in order to progress
I don't get why people like Wind Waker.
>most tedious mandatory side quests
>virtually no puzzles compared to other Zeldas
>mind-numbingly, boringly easy
>like, 15 kinds of enemies in the whole game
I don't get why people like Wind Waker.
>Shortest 3d Zelda
>WAAAAH ITS TO LONG
I finally get to use this image
>spent several hours each in the two shortest dungeons of the series
Also, although I doubt it means much to you at this point, they changed the triforce hunt for the HD version so only three of them require Tingle to translate a map, the other pieces are actually in the chests.
Of course it does. Short games tend to have more interesting content cause they don't add any game padding like fetch quests or parts that require grinding. Take MGR for example. It's a really short but very good game cause they don't add stuff to make the game unncessarily long which means that the content in the game can be well thought out and polished for the best experience. A game that feels like it needs to be long adds arbitrary shit to make the game longer and the finished product usually becomes mediocre in all parts.
Also if it is the shortest, why was there not any mandatory collectathons in either MM nor OOT to finish the game?
I love playing the Command Melody again and again and again and again. Since it was my first time playing of course it's gonna take a while since I wanna explore the entire temple. They just weren't fun or challenging. They were annoying.
Playing musical instruments is the worst thing the N64 Zeldas left us with
>pull open menu
>assign muscial thing to a button
>take out thing which pauses the whole world
>the worlds lamest DDR sequence ever
>"YOU PLAYED THE SONG OF GO FUCK YOURSELF"
>Game plays the song you JUST played
>effect actually happens
>repeat since you weren't standing in the right spot to trigger the event
>not playing WW HD that makes the sailing better, assigns the WW to it's own button, reduces the shard hunt, and has touchscreen menu navigation
Seriously, most of the bitching you're having is stuff that was cleaned up in the HD remake.
Earth temple in a fucking nutshell. The one thing that the N64 Zeldas did right was letting you play the song at your own speed. Once you learnt the song you could play it at lightning speeds. With WW it's the same pace all the time. The conducting system was awful.
>Take MGR for example.
No. Don't take MGR for example.
The game isn't short because P+ wanted a concise gaming experience, it's short by virtue of them being rushed to get the game out. It's pretty obvious toward the last third of the game, that and the clunky, shallow and poorly balanced combat which is far from what one would expect from P+.
Also, as much as I love Wind Waker, many would argue that it is short AND padded.
Which is my biggest gripe with the game. It is short AND padded. There shouldn't really be a reason for short games to have obvious filler. The Wind Waker would have been just fine if you could've fought Ganondorf right after the temples but the Triforce shards hunt ruined it for me.
All the GC Zeldas are mediocre except FSA with friends
pic related, a better water themed GameCube game
Not in the slightest
Platforming is a non issue since you have a jetpack, and levels aren't open like 64's "get nearly any star you want" so much as "Get the star WE tell you to, and ONLY that one"
Also, Blue coins cannot be described in how stupid they are
There's tons, but only will appear in certain level missions, in the most obtuse "did you buy the strategy guide?" spots
The watergun isn't really too gimmicky, but only having 7 stages that look the same and forcing you to do the same mission seven times (chasing shadow Mario) makes the game feel more than a bit padded out.
Don't try to 100% it because it's incredibly tedious and you don't get anything for it.
It's good. Those 'stumpy tree' guys are friendly NPCs and bro tier as fuck, except for Chucksters
It has a good atmosphere and fun levels, though it has problems like Blue Coins and some of the secret levels being absolute BS
If you want a worthy successor to SM64, play Super Mario Galaxy.
Actually scratch that, Sunshine and this are better water themed 6th Gen games
>game gets made
>10 years later
>game gets remade
>previous flaws are addressed
>people bitch about the 10 year old version's problems
I'm guessing you're emulating it.
MFW I lent my copy to a friend and got it back all scratched up.
>People still haven't learned to never discuss Wind Waker with daytime /v/
Pic related. It's probably what OP actually looks like
>Room has ugly carpet and chairs
>Gets renovated, carpet and chairs replaced with newer, comfortable ones
>"eww fuck that I'm not going in there, remember how horrible those chairs were?"
You can complain but people can call you retarded for it. You don't have to take those stairs anymore. Do you complain that you still have to fucking cross the pacific ocean in a wooden ship when planes exist?
In the original, you had to get eight charts, pay Tingle to decipher them, and find the shards.
In WWHD, you only decipher three or four, the other shards are in some dungeons, and you don't need to find a chart for those.
I can't believe that even to this day there are spergs who don't hold the belief that Skyward Sword is the absolute worst 3D Zelda, out of the main 5.
Why is this, /v/? Could it be that SS is literally the 1st Zelda game for some of these people? Such objectively shit taste, I just don't get it.
I can't take anyone seriously who calls Sunshine better than 64 or Galaxy. They really only claim its best because its the contrarian opinion.
These are the same kinds of people who criticize Galaxy for being too linear, yet call the secret of parts in Sunshine the best part of the game despite Galaxy being nothing but that.
It's more like paying thousands of dollars to have the airplane drop you off halfway there in the middle of the pacific ocean and you have to paddle the rest of the distance yourself anyways. The HD version doesn't save it from being boring as hell with it's fixes.
This made it all worth it.
Objectively the best Link.
Objectively the best Ganon
>not liking playing the command melody 1000 times
>not liking fighting enemies you have to cheese like crazy from a distance cause if they catch you you have to backtrack several areas to get back
>not liking easy as hell puzzles that becomes a drag because you need to control Medli at the same time with the Wind Waker
I don't find beating Demise to be impressive. Just because the game tells me he's tough I don't have to actually buy it.
Killing Ganondorf is more impressive due to him actually having the Triforce and his habit of coming back from the dead
it wasn't hard to follow tetra. but tetra isn't zelda. not in terms of character, unless you are willing to retract your retarded statement and affirm that sheik was the first attempt instead to give zelda character.
>Wind Waker fags will defend this.
I've beaten the game multiple times.
I've collected all the heart pieces, and explored the entire map.
I collected a fair amount of figurines.
And yet, whenever I say how tedious the Wind and Earth temples are, I always hear the same defense.
>Hurr, you must have ADHD.
>It's not tedious!
>Rupees are easy to get!
>They fixed it in the decade old patch! All you have to do is shell out 50 bucks for a new copy!
>Link's boypussy makes up for all the cut content!
That's funny OP. Exactly where I lost interest when I played a long time ago. I was just least interested in sailing.
I'd like to give it another try though, that was three or so years ago.
Having different opinions isn't denial
Sheik didn't have much of a personality, but Zelda is still certainly Tetra. Like I said most simply didn't pay attention
I don't really know how Dungeons can take such a huge step back. They're so homogenized, nondescript and bland in wind waker. Ocarina had creative dungeons which played a lot with what it meant to have a zelda game in a 3D space, although whenever it defaulted to find the eye switch to shoot puzzles it was a lot less interesting.
Majora's Mask however rectified this with multi-layered puzzles, having dungeons based around an entire core design mechanics which changed the way dungeons played our drastically and created an interesting level of progression where you could visibly see how your changes in the environment reflected your progress in the dungeon.
sorry, but a wink doesn't rectify the playful, head-strong pirate becoming a near-mute cliche for over half the game just 'cuz nintendo forgot what they were going for.
She literally had 0 presence after the half way point in the game. Any character she had is thrown out. Her winking at you at the end was just Nintendo remembering "oh wait, we had a character underneath that."
Yeah, they dropped the ball hard.
No 3D Zelda will ever have OoT's dungeons again, but WW's were certainly better than the ones in MM. Too few of them and only getting arrow upgrades was disappointing
>sorry, but a wink doesn't rectify the playful, head-strong pirate becoming a near-mute cliche for over half the game just 'cuz nintendo forgot what they were going for.
Again, You didn't pay attention. Being off-screen isn't the same as being mute. Much of Tetra's time in the first half is spent off screen as well.
When you finally meet up with her again she makes a lot of the same remarks and facial expressions she made as Tetra. Ganondorf even remarks that as Zelda her dreams were still all about oceans and shit.
>They're so homogenized, nondescript and bland in wind waker...
Hey man, I think the dungeons are tedious. But I have to say you're full of crap. If there was anything the Wind Waker dungeons had, it was personality.
For 1, it ws the first Zelda game that had dungeons revolving around two separate controllable characters working in conjunction.
2. It had a bunch of vertical elements, like the giant fan room.
And 3. You could visibly see how you progressed, with the one temple you got to see how light would travel between rooms, ultimately shining light in the direction you needed. The more to progressed, the more light you would see throughout.
I paid plenty of attention. She lacks any significant personality after she lost her presence. Every time she appeared before she became Zelda she was a significant character which scenes revolved around. Her lack of presence was a bad choice in retaining her character, because the few scenes she has past that are her surprise she's a princess and suddenly acts like one, and then when she uses a bow at the very end. Not really interesting.
>No 3D Zelda will ever have OoT's dungeons again, but WW's were certainly better than the ones in MM. Too few of them and only getting arrow upgrades was disappointing
WW's dungeons were terrible. MM had fantastic level design that relied on much more than finding the goody and using it, and actually realizing the importance of 3D spaces, how they can be manipulated, and giving the player control over these elements to enable creative puzzle solving.
MM experimented with having two characters controllable at once, Wind Waker explored that concept a little bit by having a reskin of another character you can play as except one had a planting mechanic and the other could reflect light. The latter of which felt like a major retread of the spirit temple. Shameless.
>2. It had a bunch of vertical elements, like the giant fan room.
not so much. There was a bit of verticality, but most of the time, verticality was used to advance horizontally. The giant fan was kind of nice although it was a bit under utilized. WW lacking any meaningful secrets in dungeons was kind of sad, because that is where the advanced design concepts really bloomed from, the optional bits.
>And 3. You could visibly see how you progressed, with the one temple you got to see how light would travel between rooms, ultimately shining light in the direction you needed. The more to progressed, the more light you would see throughout.
in one dungeon, and it was one of the most tedious dungeons in the game.
>She lacks any significant personality after she lost her presence.
Again, her being off-screen is not the same as her being on screen and being bland. She didn't have much screentime but certainly did well with the time she had. We certainly didn't need her doing what Midna did in TP and hijacking the story. The adventure should still focus on Link
> Every time she appeared before she became Zelda she was a significant character which scenes revolved around. Her lack of presence was a bad choice in retaining her character, because the few scenes she has past that are her surprise she's a princess and suddenly acts like one, and then when she uses a bow at the very end. Not really interesting.
Her signifigance was that Link needed her to finally beat Ganon because he couldn't fight him alone. Especially noteworthy as it was the first time a Zelda had done something like that
The events she went through as Zelda are what pushed her to search for New Hyrule in the DS titles
>MM experimented with having two characters controllable at once...
I've reached a point, where all I can say is "nuh-uh". So we're just going to have to disagree from this point. It sounds to me like you're forming your opinion off some arbitrarily placed value I'm not privy to.
>second half of the game
>can do shit in any order
>Either Temple, or triforce shards
>can search for shards before and inbetween temples
>both temples are blocked, you dont know what you need to gain entrance, or where to go to get those things
>you yourself have to find the hints, explore, discover in order to attain them and gain access to the next two dungeons in any order you desire
>A key item needed to progress along this is hidden in an area that is only accessible after fighting an 'optional' boss.
>tons of sidequests and things to discover along the way
>hidden grottos are actually more than holes in the ground sometimes
>secrets, treasure everywhere
>Hero mode makes the game actually challenging now
>HD edition is fun- the triforce hunt remains but the tedium is gone now.
Wind Wakers second half was glorious and more Zelda games need to be like it.
>playing through the wind temple late at night after a busy day
>get to the boss door
>realize I didn't get the boss key
>have to backtrack and fight all the enemies to that area with the boss key
>have to fight those enemies again and do that shitty block puzzle again
Does the game tell you to go get the key after freeing Makar or do you have to remember to get it?
sorry for the shit meme, but it was honestly how I felt
I guess you didn't play the kafei and anju sidequest, so it's safe to say your lack of experience has rendered your input irrelevant.
>Again, her being off-screen is not the same as her being on screen and being bland. She didn't have much screentime but certainly did well with the time she had. We certainly didn't need her doing what Midna did in TP and hijacking the story. The adventure should still focus on Link
her brief time onscreen as zelda left the impression she lost her character. This is a really obvious observation everyone can easily make once you see the scene where she's brought to hyrule. Your expectations of her reaction to being discovered as a princess, and being told to stay in place and actually listening is really disconnecting from your perception of her as a character.
This is a clear failure of characterization. They built a sound, interesting character, and neglected her because the game was obviously rushed. It wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to incorporate her into scenarios in the game later on outside of just the final boss.
>Her signifigance was that Link needed her to finally beat Ganon because he couldn't fight him alone. Especially noteworthy as it was the first time a Zelda had done something like that
yes this was realized in a predictable way. Would be nice if she wasn't just tossed into the closet and sat there like a good little girl like she obviously wasn't fleshed out to be.
>The events she went through as Zelda are what pushed her to search for New Hyrule in the DS titles
we're talking wind waker, the sequels/spinoffs don't really matter.
Oh, no, I already considered Kafei. And the Elegy of Emptiness as well.
But where i disagree, is that MM gets credit for implimenting those aspects in their dungeon. And then when WW does an expanded version, suddenly, it's of little to no value. What?
I just want it explained: what the fuck happened when she disapeared. Why the hell is she suddenly corporal again when you fight Ganondorf.
Why has Ganondorf just sat in the castle like a bitch and not done anything to fight back at all. Its hard to feel like this is evil to be stopped when the castle town is bustling and happy like always and ganon is just chilling.
It means, MM experimented with the concept? I'm not sure what you're getting at.
When you read his entire paragraph.(and not just the once sentence I quoted) He's pretty much saying "MM did it first, and in WW is wasn't really that good." I don't understand why he can't give WW credit for utilizing that concept. Instead of diminishing it, by saying it's a retread of the spirit temple. When just by having the dual characters withe reflectors, it brought the spirit temple concept to a whole new level.
I mean, it was still tedious as shit. But I have to give them credit for expanding on an interesting idea.
I have done it in both the original and in the HD version. The game even highlights both squares on the sea chart for you.
fuck if you really wanted to, you could do half of wind, say fuck it, go get medli and shit, then do half of earth.
Hell, one playthrough, I got both Medli and Makar on the boat at the same time just to see if it was possible. And that was on original gamecube wind waker.
You remind me of those people who still claimed that you couldnt do the adult temples in several different orders in OOT and that it was a change made to the 3ds version, when in reality it was there the whole time.
Because in MM it was seamless and part of a mini dungeon
WW has you playing the Command song over and over before swapping back to Link and grabbing your companion before repeating
>her brief time onscreen as zelda left the impression she lost her character.
And this is where I go back to saying that happened because people didn't pay attention. Her character is still definitely there. You just have to notice the subtle hints because the situation is too serious for ner normally fiery demeanor
>Your expectations of her reaction to being discovered as a princess, and being told to stay in place and actually listening is really disconnecting from your perception of her as a character.
It's hardly unreasonable for her to be confused at what was going on. Even the developers themselves stated this
>They built a sound, interesting character, and neglected her because the game was obviously rushed. It wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to incorporate her into scenarios in the game later on outside of just the final boss.
Probably, but from what I saw I'm more than satisfied. That boss added a lot. Unrelated, but I probably would've liked SS Zelda a lot more if she had done the same thing
>we're talking wind waker, the sequels/spinoffs don't really matter.
Wind Waker's ending states her intention to search for a new land. The sequels simply expand on it
Yes, they expanded on it, but their expansion was poorly handled. It didn't feel fluid, it felt forced. The lights and reflectors in the dungeons felt very arbitrary, rooms felt too puzzle centric and their solutions immediately obvious, merely tedious to complete them.
Did I not say Wind Waker expanded on it? I did. In Wind Waker it was slow and annoying. MM just toyed with the idea and it was of no harm, and even a little interesting to play as someone else.
>It's hardly unreasonable for her to be confused at what was going on. Even the developers themselves stated this
it's absolutely boring and an unfulfilling role for the character to fit in. It doesn't work with her demeanor, she always set herself up as someone who does what she wants whenever she wants to, regardless of what is going on around her. It's this way from the moment she regains consciousness in the forest at the beginning of the game.
But because her skin color, clothing, and name changes she suddenly loses all of that. Tetra would say "screw that, I'm not sitting around here doing nothing. Link, me and my pirates are coming with you, we'll help with triforce hunting and dungeoneering!"
Zelda could have been a rock wearing a dress with a triangle scribbled onto its side and it would have fulfilled the same role.
Except instead of shooting light arrows it could just throw itself at ganon.
>Wind Waker's ending states her intention to search for a new land. The sequels simply expand on it
It's alright to depart from conventions. I don't see how it hurts galaxy. It's just designed differently. Super Mario Sunshine also departed from 64's conventions by having only one world aesthetics and really boring platforming that was so easy it was practically a chore.
But some folks still like it or something.
Yes, that's one of the reasons that made those dungeons so tedious. However, the concept is solid. If only they had a faster way to transition between characters, it would have improved the experience greatly.
>The lights and reflectors in the dungeons felt very arbitrary, rooms felt too puzzle centric and their solutions immediately obvious
That's where I disagree.
The reflectors were placed in interesting areas that made the player think, or hard areas that challenged the player to actually reach them.
There is nothing in a dungeon that could ever be considered "too puzzle centric", unless you're referring to combat. Which we're not in this instance.
Galaxy levels were linear, but it let you choose planets to explore
Sunshine levels mainly were linear, only allowing you to do one mission per level, while 64 just let you go where ever assuming you have enough stars
>It doesn't work with her demeanor, she always set herself up as someone who does what she wants whenever she wants to, regardless of what is going on around her.
She also always set herself up as someone who thinks about her actions and doesn't go wild on a whim
>Tetra would say "screw that, I'm not sitting around here doing nothing. Link, me and my pirates are coming with you, we'll help with triforce hunting and dungeoneering!"
And such a character would've been quickly snatched up by Ganondorf in a huge fight and remembered as one of the worst characters in the series
>Zelda could have been a rock wearing a dress with a triangle scribbled onto its side and it would have fulfilled the same role.
Except it was Tetra that also came up with the strategy of deflecting a Light Arrow off of Link's shield to hit Ganon. The type of strategic prowess and precision you would expect from a seasoned pirate over a pampered princess
It's clear you didn't like Wind Waker much, os I understand why you didn't care much about the story, but you need to stop deliberately ignoring key pieces of dialogue and statements from developers just because they don't fit into your generic "rebellious princess" vision
Have you ever played a Zelda game before? The compass should be the first item you get in the Wind Temple, and you should know that the boss key is going to be in the opposite direction of the boss door.
>The reflectors were placed in interesting areas that made the player think, or hard areas that challenged the player to actually reach them.
they didn't. Their purpose and point was obvious, arbitrary ones were clearly sign posted, and critical ones were even clearer (either by being placed there at all, or surrounding details like tracks, alignment of props, or the final piece of the puzzle.
For example, the last light puzzle in the earth temple. It is obvious what you must do. The moment you drop down you see all the mirrors, and it's clear it's another retread of the dungeon mechanic of reflecting light with medli.
Except it goes on for like 10 minutes. 10 unnecessary minutes.
This is the point where I call bullshit on putting puzzling over logistics. It isn't interesting, it isn't practical, and above all from a play stand point, it isn't enjoyable. Switching back and forth, replaying songs, lining up reflections isn't fun at all. It's terrible. Windfall temple had a logical central mechanic that had place and purpose in the dungeon and the world, purifying water, and it was an interesting angle to portray. It also worked fairly well as a puzzle mechanic. Other dungeons didn't need this because their mechanic wasn't so simple.
>And such a character would've been quickly snatched up by Ganondorf in a huge fight and remembered as one of the worst characters in the series
I forgot, wasn't Ganon already fucked up at this point? Pretty sure she wouldn't be captured by someone not in the surface world. That, and even then having encounters with ganon's cronies, whatever they may be could create for some helpful breaks in the tedium of sailing that isn't those shitty sharks, pirate ships, or giant squids.
I don't actively want to dislike games, but it's really hard to like a game with so many glaring flaws.
The music notes don't show up until the Earth temple, showing you that he's under the waterfall, but does he not show up? This isn't a rhetorical question, I don't know, never looked.
He does, I have done it before. Fuck. Am I going to have to replay the game, make a new damn file, get to that point as fast as possible, just so I can use the pictobox to take a selfie of me in the wind temple without a mirror shield to prove it to you dumbasses?
I dont remember if the notes show up or not, but I know the music of him practicing is still there.
As long as you play the Wind Waker in front of the stone slate in front of the Wind Temple entrance, it will trigger the cutscene with Fado, and after that Makar will be under the waterfall. I dont know if he is not there before doing that cutscene, I have never tried that before.
But like I said, back on gamecube, I replayed the game like 7 times, and one time I got Makar and Medli on the boat at the same time, just to see if it was possibe.
>I forgot, wasn't Ganon already fucked up at this point? Pretty sure she wouldn't be captured by someone not in the surface world.
Ganon left the surface world because he didn't need it anymore now that he knew Zelda's identity. Valoo's fire didn't actually hurt him which is why using her pirate crew to fight him would've also been pretty stupid
>mfw I just found out you can do the OoT temples in a bunch of orders, including Fire -> Forest -> Water -> Spirit -> Shadow
OoT temples are pretty open so long as you have the key items you need to access them.
although iirc the long shot is a necessity for the late game temples, so you do need to partially complete some.
Yeah, but dont worry idiots like this>>257566767
will keep saying doing dungeons out of order isn't possible.
Go replay wind waker anon, you can do Wind temple first, unlike what these idiots seem to believe.
>mind-numbingly, boringly easy
People say this, and it's true, but it applies to every 3D zelda game.
Also, hero mode in the HD version turns it into what is by far the most difficult 3D Zelda.
I just played and beat this game for the first time the other day, trying to go back and play all the Zelda games I missed.
Anyway, Wind Waker is just an alright game. I played the older version on Dolphin and some of the mechanics are clunky as hell, switching wind direction, having to constantly play songs to warp around, fishing up treasure, etc. Some of the quests aren't explained at all or are too well hidden. In the end I had to look a few things up, including the locations of the triforce pieces (got all the charts legit). Even then fishing them up was a nightmare, the pillars of light vanish way too quickly leaving you to sail around and randomly try and fish them up based on how loud the sound is. It was a relief to beat the damn thing when I eventually got to the end.
whats interesting is that you can explore shit without being forced down a path like in TP or SS.
Take my first time ever playing OOT for example, Everyone says go to the forest. But I wanted to explore. I go to kakariko, decide to check on the gorons. Holy shit, the gorons are fucked. I save them, getting cutscenes, a full dungeon, and a boss fight along the way. Before I know it I rescued a sage and was progressing the main story.
It was glorious. I wasnt there because the game told me to. I was there because I chose too. That makes a massive difference in how much the game feels like an adventure.
Dude, I do it all the time. Try it yourself, you will be surprised.
but that's not interesting non-linearity. It's really hard to enjoy the most boring part of a game when it's forced on you so hard, so taking part in it by choice isn't something to really want to do.
sequence breaking in OoT however, by the rules of the game no less, where you visit different locales and experience different parts of the game and its game play is awfully exciting.
yes, I absolutely agree with you. The game suggest and insinuates for balance reasons, but it's awfully exciting to just go wherever you please and really feel like you're taking part in the world.
Let me clear up some misconceptions. Not that guy, but I am a speed runner.
Wind Waker Wind Temple CAN be done first, WITHOUT glitches, but Makar does not appear unless you already did the Laruto tablet cutscene.
So, in order to do the wind temple first, You would have to get both the Iron boots and the bracelet, lift the entrances to both temples, and learn the song from both tablets.
Then Makar should be available.
Speedrunners never do this because it adds a bunch of extra time to a run and is not efficient. But yes, it is possible to do Wind Temple first.
>mfw I have to replay Wind Waker now just to verify this
there is this one cool one that lets link fly/run at super sanic speeds across the ocean without needing a boat.
I do not know the specifics of your cheat, but doing Wind Temple first in the way I described will partially power the master sword, and then earth temple will fully power master sword.
Nope. I just tried this a couple of weeks ago because I was curious. After getting the fire/ice arrows, I just went and did both islands and learned both songs, and I still had to get Medli first.
Also, how/where does the game point you towards the ice and fire islands after you get the arrows? I was playing through, and the only reason I knew to go to those two islands to progress was because I've played the game before. Did I miss an NPC leading me by the nose to my next objective, or is this just an instance of old school-style "figure it out youself" ethics?
Not that anon. But I speculate that it's possible, whoever wrote the cheat didn't fully understand the trigger to get Makar to appear, and assumed that the player had to trigger Meldi's mastersword sequence in order to do so. But the cheat doesn't actually mark the point where you actually get the mastersword upgrade.
So when you get to Makar's masterword sequence, the game thinks you already did Medli's sequence, it assumes you need the fully upgraded sword, so it gives it to you. And then when you go back to do Medli's the sequence is triggered "naturally", so you watch it normally. And then the game sees you already didn't Makar's sequence, so it gives you the fully upgraded sword again.
A bit convoluted, but not impossible.
figure it out yourself. If you use bait on a fish outside of the mother and child isles, she will say you can only get in there with the power of cyclones, and fish near where cyclos spawns will say he controls tornados or something, but its classic "here is pieces, put it together yourself" style which I love.
Strange you had to get medli first though anon. I had both Makar and medli on my boat several times.
I think the game assumes you've seen the volcano island and you just need to remember where to go
But if you use the cheat and do Makar first you can skip straight to Hyrule
I forgot about the fishes you have to feed with bait. That system was terrible. How many areas were there on the world map and you could only unlock them one at a time on the map. Another thing to drag the game out like hell compared to the other 3D Zeldas
That's a load of crap. WWHD hero mode is practically as easy as the base game past Dragon Roost because you immediately get a couple bottles and the game's dungeons have guaranteed fairy spawns.
OoT 3D is the hardest because some bosses do 8 hearts of damage and occasionally hit you, unlike Wind Waker.
Elaborate? Having to rely on memory isn't always the best way to get the player to progress through the game. If they stopped playing for a few weeks or months it kinda falls apart
Then it still isn't impossible to figure out by trial and error. You have fire and ice arrows. There are two islands enshrouded by ice and fire that you cannot enter. It ain't rocket science.
Yes but if the player can't remember where they are, either due to not discovering them yet or not marking them on the map because of no bait, then there's no way to find them without searching every corner of the map
Hero mode enemies are also more aggressive, block more, and similar shit.
For example, Moblins can block, have a counter attack (during which you only have half a second to raise your shield or you will lose 2 and a half hearts) and several other means of attacking.
Ganondorf Hero mode feels completely reworked. He does 2 hearts minimum, certain attacks cannot be blocked (they will knock you down and leave you open to the next attack if you try) So to be successful, you either need to stack several fairies and potions, or know which moves to block against, which to dodge against, and when to be in range for the counter attack.
Some of his attacks will do 4-6 hearts too, which he can do in rapid succession.
Definitely a solid challenge increase. At the very least, potions/fairies feel like something that is needed now, rather than a waste of space.
Closing in on Forsaken Fortress ready to test this Wind Temple rumor
thank you. Make sure you try it in every possible way- makar first, then wind tablet- maybe makar, then both tablets, makar, then both tablets, pick up medli, makar, then both tablets, pick up and drop off medli, immediately leave earth temple, then go see makar.
Lets debunk this rumor from all possible angles.
It's the feel of exploration and adventure on the open sea, which I hated as a kid, because I loved hoofing it in ocarina. But looking back on it, sea exploration had its moments
I had no idea, I never felt that any part of the looked rushed while I was playing through it, but I guess if they had more time. They would have added another dungeon for the nayru's pearl.
>The final battle was utterly boring, disappointing, and mostly passive
Are you fags still talking about Super Mario Sunshine?
Alright, Zelda's been locked up which means it's time to get to work
do gods work anon, make a list, make sure you test every variable, make a back up save now in case you fuck up. Test every possible combination to fully debunk rumor for good. Otherwise it will never go away
I'm just going to do what the anon said and get both songs
I hate being forced to adventure instead of giving me an actual incentive instead of
>you gotta do this to finish the game
It would be the same thing if you had to hunt all 10 poes in Hyrule Field in OOT in order to get access to the final fight.
>"Seems like the poes have stolen the energy needed to open the door to Ganondorfs castle. Quick Link! You need to kill them to be able to save Zelda!"
Games made on a technically inferior console 5 years prior didn't even need that kind of padding.
It was aight.
Was utterly boring, disappointing, and mostly passive. And way too easy for the level preceding it that promised some kind of actual difficulty in the game.
Man, I wish the game always looked that good. Whoever decided to employ soft shading near light sources like torches is a fucking idiot.
People dont understand why WW is so bad, its linear in the worst way, at the cost of exploration.
Links Awakening is linear but does it perfectly.
WW is a piece of shit only defended for its atmosphere.
>How anyone can find SS to be better than anything is beyond me.
Because I had so much fun wagglan around and I understood the design philosophy of that game after people complained for 5 solid years about the field being too empty and Aonuma saying he would make a smaller game with more content and that's what he did. Fun content for that matter. Doesn't hurt the story was pretty good and enjoyable.
Yeah man I can't believe the ocean in that game is just a straight line.
If you bait the fish outside the wind or earth temple he tells you where to get the boots or bracelet (forgot which one goes to which temple). He'll say something like "I'll let you in on a secret, you can't get past [whatever is on the island] without a special item you get at [whatever the quadrant is for the ice or fire isle]"
I will never understand the hateboner for Wind Waker, and Mario Sunshine.
People were whining back in 2003, and people are still whining in 2014.
>hurr its has islands
Nearly 40% are one stop shops with nothing to explore. Another 25% are literal copy pastes.
When you reach an island in WW by exploring your greeted with a dead end 70% of the time until you have the hookshot and skull hammer. There is zer choice in the dungeons exploration either, you never have a choice in where to put a key. Its a guided experience.
In Links awakening your limited in where you can go until you get yout item. That item is use in the next area you can enter and freely explore till you find the dungeon. That dungeon uses the item along with whatever new item you acquire in its puzzles. When you leave that new item lets you re-explore finding 90% of the areas secrets only to be stumped by a few areas completely.
As you progress in LA the dungeons get harder and more devious in they design. The difficulty compounds with every new item from a previous dungeon. The same goes for the surrounding areas.
WW is shit and has none of those aspects outside of lol heres an item for the next piss easy dungeon.
Most of the praise I see for WW comes from the art department and music, or the story. Nobody mentions the dungeons, NOBODY praises the triforce hunt, and at best people say "s-sailing is atmospheric and immersive!", which may be true for them, but it's a stupid excuse that you could give to anything. 70% of the game is spent in a slow as fuck boat sailing in the middle of nothing, half of the time in silence because night has no music.
I enjoyed the dungeons and the triforce hunt. The latter doesn't take that long and brings you to some cool areas on the map.
>Most of the praise I see for MM comes from the art department and music, or the story. Nobody mentions the dungeons, NOBODY praises the mask hunt, and at best people say "t-time limit is atmospheric and immersive!", which may be true for them, but it's a stupid excuse that you could give to anything. 70% of the game is spent going back in time and repeating the same sidequest, half of the time in silence because night has no music.
>Too many things at once
Bullshit, people need to stop expecting carbon copies of older games. the only thing they could've used was more difficulty, especially in Sunshine's case.
The Triforce Quest i'snt bad in the HD version. That being said:
I have never finished the Game Cube version before. Got to the Earth/Wind Temples twice, got bored. I got the HD version as my free game with Mario Kart 8 purchase so let me spill my thoughts:
>The game is super easy, I knew that going in, but why are the puzzles so easy too? Putting the game on Master Quest did NOT up the difficulty much.
>The game was short, I beat it in like 20 hours, having no knowledge of the 2nd half of the game.
>The Lack of temples/ Dungeons was a disappointment, and the only one I liked was the Tower of the Gods. The Wind/Earth temples were a chore and mostly stupid. The Volcano and Forest were easy and stupid.
>The Bosses were a joke. There was like what, 4? They were super easy to figure out and to beat, and the design was lame. An underground worm/centipede. A Lava centipede. A plant ripped RIGHT out of Ocarina (Jabu Jabu Boss), and a ghost, who was actually kind of a neat boss if it wasn't so easy and short.
>The Sea was awesome to explore. Sailing was fun, even if I didn't find the quick sail until AFTER the Triforce Quest. I loved all the Island and their secrets.
>I love the Art. Nothing else needs to be said, its easily one of the best looking games I've ever seen.
>The Music is great, the sound effects are vibrant and fun. The Sound design really sells the pirate/seaside theme.
>The story was pretty charming and I think this is my favorite version of Link and Zelda. I liked the King of Hyrule and his parts. The Kikori kid with the Violin made em almost tear up to see his back story. Although Gannon was as boring as ever.
Overall it's not a bad game. It's got amazing production values, looks and sounds beautiful. Controls great and has an amazing world. I just feel like their isn't a lot of "game" here. Make the game 3-4 times longer and make puzzles/dungeons/bosses gradually get harder as you go and it would be perfection.
>And for the record I do enjoy the dungons
The dungeons are fine, but there's nothing that memorable about them for me. Even if WW didn't have the sea, I would have had more fun with the rest of the 3D games.
>Anyone who has an opinion different from mine is being contrarian, thus cannot be taken seriously.
Sunshine is leagues better than Galaxy, scrub. Enjoy your shitty upside down running simulator.
I'm not saying make carbon copies but going from what was in OoT to boats and from 64's style of gameplay to Sunshine's it's a bit of a toss-up
I wouldn't want a harder Sunshine because of the secret levels like the Pachinko
That's a lie though. Everyone remembers at least one dungeon from MM. The time limit puts pressure on the player to finish faster, which is better than making the player wait (inb4 lel waitin simulator). Also there's way more content variety in MM, since all the sidequests are different.
But keep being butthurt.
>mfw WWfags cant even respond because they got BTFO so hard
>mfw this guy confirmed what >>257580576 said word by word
>Other platformer games have short, easy bosses, this one should too
That's a lame excuse. The game's final boss shouldn't be so easy. It's even quicker than the final Koopa fight in 64.
Since this is /v/'s Zelda thread for now and it's not ded yet I've got a question: they say WW had two dungeons scrapped and they eventually became TP dungeons. Which TP dungeons were they and where would they have been in WW?
You should be sorry. Your opinions aren't fact, let alone good ones.
>25% islands are copy paste
>another almost 40% are one stop shops you never go back to again outside a treasure chart
>WW has zero explorable zones where items are required to discover things
>most islands are dead ends until late game greatly limiting exploration
>dungeons have zero exploration are are simply find the key use it on a door, rinse and repeat. you never have more than one locked door to choose from because of how linear they are
>LA is linear
>LA has explorable zones around the next dungeon that require clever use of skill and items to progress though, WW has none of this
>LA has dungeons where you might have 3 keys and cant find a single door, or 4 locked doors and a single key, WW does not have anything close
What parts did I miss?
muh atmosphere, music, and feels arent reasons why its a good game
They're all super linear and trivially easy. Just single rooms of self-contained
puzzles that are all use item on obvious thing.
Earth Temple is like a mockery of Zelda dungeons where most of the dungeon is mirror block pushing where every block has a straight track leading into an indent completely removing any kind of thought from the process.
This is pretty fair.
Yes, it is easy. Especially since I already know every dungeon front and back. To be fair, most 3D Zelda games have been pretty easy.
>The game is short
It takes me significantly longer than 20 hours to beat, but I try to do as much of the side quest and sea charting as I possibly can each play through. I could probably beat it in about 20 without the side quests.
>Lack of dungeons
Again, fair. It could definitely have fit twice as many in. I don't understand why everyone hates the Wind and Earth temples. I liked them. All of them are easy though, see above.
>Bosses were a joke
I liked WW's bosses. And if you count all the iterations of puppet ganon and the two shadow ganons as their own bosses, there are 12.
I love Wind Waker.
I'm gonna dump this comic now.
yeah earth temple is a major disappointment. Mirror/light puzzles are some of the best puzzles in video games and they have infinite possibilities to be real mind-benders but ninty really screwed the pooch with this one. Same with the spirit temple in OoT. Could have been so much more.
>people bitch about Twilight Princess being lackluster with barely anything to really explore
>people bitch about Wind Waker being too big and having the game force you to explore
You faggors are never happy.
no anon, you're not allowed to just "enjoy" something
these are different people
saying these things
>Wind Waker being too big and having the game force you to explore
That has never been the complaint for Wind Waker. It's just that faggots take "it's tedious, and sailing sucks, and a lot of the islands are boring" to mean "I hate exploring".
SPEEDRUNNER ANON IS A LYING FAGGOT
It didn't really force you to explore in the NA version, you just had to follow the chart.
I don't think the Triforce Hunt is innately horrible as an idea, but the tedious bullshit of decoding charts and dredging up pieces was awful and unnecessary padding. Also, the linearity constraints on the game shouldn't have been there. If I could get Triforce pieces on my way to do other shit, it'd be fine, but five of them require the Hookshot. If you've already charted the ocean, it feels like backtracking, and the boat controls make sailing a bitch.
Granted, WWHD fixed almost all of this shit. It's not really fun, but it isn't deflating like it used to be.
Keep posting Link's Logbook, it's curing the faggotry.
>Posting that fag
You've shamed yourself even further.
Sorry dude, didn't think anyone gave a shit
I fucking knew it.
Speedrunner you faggot. You don't even know your own terrible speed game. I hope you never get the swift sail and the cyclone warps you to Dragon Roost every time.
Good work anon.
So what have we established today?
- Speedrunner anon is a lying faggot
- Wind Waker and Link's Logbook are still dope as fuck
- Super Mario Sunshine is pussy shit
- Baneposters are still on that awful meme
Not bad for one thread.
She's way more important to the story than the walking cliche who cries about not being Link.
Also I'll buy HW2 if it has Links from the games where he isn't a bishie faggot like WW, ALttP, ALBW, etc
>Yaoibait faggots like OoT, TP, SS, Zelda U and HW Link
I guess you're the one drawing all of it.
Pic related is the only Adult Link who wasn't a total faggot, and it's because westerners designed him.
>Only Dobson is allowed to like the one adult Link that hasn't been drawn taking it up the ass by Dark Link, strange men, monsters, Ghirahim, Ganon, etc
Go back to drawing Link and Dark Link holding hands or some shit.
I'm actually really excited for Zelda U being open world.
Think it'll be more like WW in "open world"ness? Where you can kinda go anywhere but can't do x thing until you obtain y item?
>detected possible malicious code in image file
I'll just skip to page 5
Place your bets on how open world will be restricted. Invisible walls? Tall useless buildings that conveniently block you from going in certain directions? Long stretches of areas with fire? Lava lakes?
YOU ARE LEAVING THE BATTLEFIELD GAMEOVER IN 3 2 1?
>but there isn't, did you play WW?
Close enough. I'm sure she won't care when the lights are out
Or how about the Cyrodiil/Elsweyr border that was a fuckdeep tench with a river in it?
You're spitting hairs.
Most people have paintings of themselves instead of pictographs.
I've never finished a 3D zelda game. I remember my friend lending me OOT when I was like 11 or 12 and I stopped playing it after about 1hour. At least windwaker managed to keep my attention for 10hours before I stopped.
I'm fucking glad Nintendo is growing away from Wind Waker and the whole Toon Link style.
The whole toon link thing feels like they're trying too hard to be charming. Comes of gross and invasive.
A nice memorial left behind as they move on to other things.
>Toon Link still in smash
Classic characters are expected to be in Smash.
>Toon Link amiibo inevitable
Everyone in Smash is getting one.
HM? Not even I see the problem there. Yea, his arms are long, but that's because he needs to be able to articulate his arms above his head and across his body, and stuff like that.
Personally, I feel like the Toon style won't go away. If anything, portable Zelda games like PH and ST will still use it in the future.
Well, that is to say if there are anymore games like that, but I feel like it's inevitable.
My arms almost reach to me knees. Hardly anything distracting
>A nice memorial left behind as they move on to other things.
Even as they cite the game as a starting point for Zelda U? Don't be this dense
>HM? Not even I see the problem there. Yea, his arms are long, but that's because he needs to be able to articulate his arms above his head and across his body, and stuff like that.
This. His head is so fucking big that he needs long arms to do his attacks
The Toon style is already gone. There hasn't been a *new* toon style game in years.
And the last successful handheld was ALBW. Which was a big monetary and critical success.
Toon style is done.
>Even as they cite the game as a starting point for Zelda U?
They did? Well if they did, I don't see does that have to do with anything. It means they got their CONSOLE off to a start. Not their toon style Zelda games. They've already announced the new Zelda, and it's not Toon Link.
>alternatively, replace him down the line with ALBW styled Link
ALBW Link was just a Link done in the LttP style because it's a LttP sequel. The same goes if they decide to do another WW sequel or Four Sword game
>The Toon style is already gone. There hasn't been a *new* toon style game in years.
2009 was the last Toon game. By that logic the TP style can never comeback.
>They did? Well if they did, I don't see does that have to do with anything. It means they got their CONSOLE off to a start. Not their toon style Zelda games. They've already announced the new Zelda, and it's not Toon Link.
>One handheld and one console game means Toon Style is dead despite its maintained presence as an icon of the series.
Your inability to think beyond a few months in the future is amazing
1. The characters in ALBW were not done in the same style as ALttP.
Compare the sprites to the 3D models. Completely different. Then compare the 2D concepts to the old ones. Completely different.
2. Four swords is likely dead too. But if they decided to bring it back, they will come up with a new style.
>2009 was the last Toon game.
I was talking about on console. Notice how on Console the art direction always changes? They've said before that the make a conscious effort to approach the art in a new way every game. So for that reason, yes, TP's style will likely never come back too.
MM was the exception to the rule.
>Your inability to think beyond a few months in the future is amazing
On console, there already have been 2 released games NOT in toon style after WW. And this new game makes a 3rd. The HD version doesn't count, because it's not a new title.
As history suggests for handheld, a style lasts until a successor pushes it out of the way. LA was one style. Oracles was the next. Then the toon style after that. They've never returned to an older style. It's always been consecutive. And now ALBW came out, and it's the new style.
You listerally have no reason to beleive Toon Link will return, other than faith that Nintendo will do the thing you want them to do. All real evidence suggests Toon link is done as far as new games go.
Fair enough. The only challenge in that games dungeons is stone tower which is still rather straightforward, and the water dungeon. Not because its confusing but because swimming into the right hole is annoying as hell and a mishap results in a lot of backtracking just to try again.
>Compare the sprites to the 3D models. Completely different. Then compare the 2D concepts to the old ones. Completely different.
Not seeing it. ALBW's style will only last as long as they keep
>2. Four swords is likely dead too. But if they decided to bring it back, they will come up with a new style.
Hardly. They rereleased it on DSiware recently, and the Wii U gamepad is begging for it. They certainly wouldn't change the style after 3 titles
>I was talking about on console. Notice how on Console the art direction always changes? They've said before that the make a conscious effort to approach the art in a new way every game. So for that reason, yes, TP's style will likely never come back too.
I count handhelds since that's where they have more freedom and don't need to redo everything with each new game
>You listerally have no reason to beleive Toon Link will return, other than faith that Nintendo will do the thing you want them to do. All real evidence suggests Toon link is done as far as new games go.
It's because I count handhelds and even when not making full new games they still repeatedly acknowledge his existence. Another Toon Link handheld is far from impossible seeing as they've done it multiple times already
WWfags always praise the game and pretend it doesnt suck major dick outside of atmosphere.
They have yet to prove otherwise, I gave them an entire thread.
Would you rather I samefagged consistently like so many other shitposters? Nah man
Exactly. MM's dungeons had a central area which served as a hub and you would some areas several times while WW was more or less a straight line through all the dungeons and there would be no more exploring the areas
Wind Temple excluded
I like WW, but its dungeons aren't good enough to be the opposite of MM's
>Everyone's fun but mine is pretend
And this is why nobody's wasting their time taking you seriously
>wind temple excluded
>not the central chamber in dragon roost you revisit 3 times
>not the shadow temples main face room you back track through a few times
>And this is why nobody's wasting their time taking you seriously
More like they have zero couter arguements.
I already admitted it has great sound, music, and art direction. The atmosphere is amazing.
The rest is meh.
WWfags can never give me a reason to think otherwise. Maybe if you tried to disprove me youd get somewhere rather than saying im wrong and your right because opinions.
Wheres your proof its a good game? I have tons to prove its only meh outside of its looks.
>More like they have zero couter arguements.
>It couldn't possibly be because nobody cares what I think
>Wheres your proof its a good game?
That I enjoyed it. That's the closest I can get to proving something that's subjective
Stone Tower was my prime example of a non-linear dungeon. When you enter the temple you have the main room which you can access several branches in the dungeon and it's the room you come back to when you turn the dungeon around etc
>Not seeing it.
Then you're fucking blind.
>ALBW's style will only last as long as they keep
Right. And when they move on to a new style, they won't move backward to an older style. They will create a new style.
>They rereleased it on DSiware recently, and the Wii U gamepad is begging for it.
So? They re-released WW on console, and the new console Zelda isn't Toon. They re-released OoT on handheld, and ALBW wasn't Toon. Wanting something really bad, is not the same as getting something.
>They certainly wouldn't change the style after 3 titles
That's your faith speaking. Not reality. ALBW is incredibly successful. Why wouldn't they continue along that path of presentation? Four Swords was based on ALttP graphics in the first place.
>I count handhelds since that's where they have more freedom and don't need to redo everything with each new game
Handhelds are all you have to count on. Because on console, there is 0% chance Toon Link is returning for a new title. But on handheld, at least you have like a 5% chance. It's not TOTALLY impossible. But all evidence is against it.
>Another Toon Link handheld is far from impossible seeing as they've done it multiple times already
That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that they've exhausted that creative venue. And then they replaced it with a new creation. With no incentive to go back to the old. Unless they REALLY REALLY care about making another four swords game. And if they REALLY REALLY care about maintaining the styles.
>ALBW is incredibly successful
Still hasn't come close to PH's sales
>Handhelds are all you have to count on. Because on console, there is 0% chance Toon Link is returning for a new title. But on handheld, at least you have like a 5% chance. It's not TOTALLY impossible. But all evidence is against it.
So? Handhelds are where the best Zeldas have been for the last ten years. A handheld Toon game is all I need
I don't think Wind Temple or Dragon Roost count. In the Wind Temple, the central pillar opens one (and only one) new door when you activate the next part of it. The only real fork is that you could be retarded and not go back for the boss key after rescuing Makar.
In Dragon Roost, every visit to the central room is an entirely separate part of it, to the point where it could've just been three separate rooms. The layout isn't any more complicated.
I'm happy for you. I had fun in WWHD as well.
Going back and playing all the other zeldas slowly I've come to terms with how mediocre it is in comparison.
If you cant say I'm wrong then what are you arguing?
Mindlessly defending something isnt always the best simply because you like it. A game is allowed to have flaws and still be fun.
My problem is that WW set the standard for all future zeldas after. Only just now are we starting to get away from that guided theme park design where you simply follow the path laid in front of you and enjoy the sights on the way passively.
If Zelda U is linear in its dungeons I give up.
LA proves it can be linear and great, but dungeons are suppose to be a challenge.
If WW didnt cut content and copy past so much it could have been great, but instead we had 13 literal copy pastes. Thats a quarter of the islands. Fairies should be hidden like on outset or the great sea octo. Not their own island. Same goes for the eye reefs
>Still hasn't come close to PH's sales
>So? Handhelds are where the best Zeldas have been for the last ten years. A handheld Toon game is all I need
>So? I really have faith that I will get what I desire if I pray to Nintendo.
There's always going to be a right way through any dungeon.
I don't think Stone Tower had any significant forks, but it did have a lot of optional stray fairy stuff and side rooms.