THIS THREAD IS MADE BY THE ORDER OF IMPERATOR GAIVS IVLIVS CAESAR

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>>257149554

>>257149554
>FLOUR
>U
You fucked up.

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PATRICIAN REPORTING IN

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FILTHY ROMANS

What are some games where I can play as my ancestors and repel Roman scum for the glory of the gods?

>>257151792
Warband with mods.
Rome total war 1

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>>257151792
DISCEDO BARBARORVM

>>257149893

I never understood what were the gestures for

>>257149554
AVE IMPERATOR!

TRIARIAII!

>>257149554

How did a single city become that?

I'm such a huge god damn sucker for roman shit in games. Fucking love it.
How'd the Roman empire fall anyway? Weren't they absolute god damn badasses?

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>>257152720
MARS WILLS IT

>>257152820
A string of shit Emperors + spreading too thin.

Sometimes I day dream about what it'd be like if the Roman Empire never fell...

if I see a map as the Op image, I automatically think I'm on /pol/ again

>>257152901

Fucking boys would probably still be legal.

>>257152901
It'd be a better world.

>>257152820

A combination of things.

They spread too quickly which meant armies would take forever to get anywhere, everyone wanted to take power which meant a lot of infighting, trying to integrate outsiders with little to no effort and much more.

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>>257151792
RTW: Barbarian Invasion

Lusitania master race reporting in ;)))));)

>>257150408
#DECIMATED

>>257153196
>>257152901
So it basically boils down to being overly ambition and corruption?
God, what a damn shame. Roman empire best empire.

>>257153585
overly ambitious*

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Hellatorius ~
Victorialis ~

Erastus ~
Necessitas ~

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>>257153402
This never gets old.

>>257152901
When I see my nation now and how great my ancestors where I cry. How much I would love to see Italy at that glory again. Roman Empire,Renaissance or even a good implemented Fascism.

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>>257153848
That map. All these feels.

>>257151792
CK2 expansion getting announced next week. Either Dark Ages or official Rome Conversion. Get hype.

>>257153958
Be the change you want to see, Anon.

I'd totally back an Italian politician who wanted a "return to form" for Italy, and try and spark the amazing work the Renaissance brought, or the cultural and political greatness of the Roman Republic and Empire.

>>257154127

There's a new expansion coming out?

Considering they did The Old Gods they could easily add another 400 years.

>>257153585
The Roman Empire isn't the British Empire. The sun never sets.

>>257154296
It's their biggest expansion yet and is going to be $20. Gotta be huge.

>>257153848
I'm using Mundus Magnus, it's great, although only the map has changed, none of the other stuff like the building and unit edits. Also I transferred saves between computers and now the minimap colors are all messed up... anyone know what's up with that?

You know what's the most awesome thing about the Roman empire?
It's how "modern" everything seemed

Take this for example a guy complaining about women fighting in the coliseum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiatrix#Juvenal
>Poor weak things (they think), how little they really enjoy it!

It sounds exactly like someone from /v/ complaining about casuals/gurl gamers playing vidya

>>257153585

Any empire as huge as that would fall some day. You could argue it lasted until around 1450 which is a fucklong time.

>>257154563
Exactly. I find it to be a good thing that a civilization has advanced enough to the point where there are civil wars.
>VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1820: Chie, I hope your hemorrhoids rub together so much that they hurt worse than when they every have before!
http://www.pompeiana.org/resources/ancient/graffiti%20from%20pompeii.htm

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>>257154668
>You could argue it lasted until around 1450
No you couldn't. Only delusional Byzantiboos would argue something so fucking stupid.

Anyway, it's time.

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>>257154868
B-but why Chie?

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FORM TESTUDO!!!

>>257154919

How so? It's literally the Roman Empire.
Not like that retarded ''Holy' 'Roman' 'Empire''

>>257155036
>arrows cutting through the shields like bullets
I mean come on.

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>>257155102
>mfw conquering the HRE as Venice in M2TW

>>257154868
>VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1826: Phileros is a eunuch!

OHH SHITT

>>257155260

I recently played my first game as a Republic.
It's pretty fun, it's like a regular game but instead of military strength you expand your country through money.

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>>257149554

HE WAS A CONSOLE OF ROME!

>>257154868
>People over 1000 years ago hated chie too.

Thank you.

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>roman plebs thinking their empire was big

>tfw accidentally auto resolve

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCWblWfiUf0.

>>257152579
Religious.

>>257155721
persians got repelled by a handful of greeks though

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>>257151792
Mein Bruder

You guys know Europa Barbarorum 2 is releasing this month right?

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Why haven't there been any good TRUE ROMAN games in the last 10 years?

>>257155913
Thats the mongol empire

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>>257155721
>mfw Mongolian horseniggers think barren undeveloped land compares to a glorious empire like Rome

>>257155102
Because it was barely anything like the Roman Empire.

Was it a remnant of the empire? Absolutely. Was it the same geopolitical state? Definitely not.

>>257155913
That isnt the Persian Empire.

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>Ctrl+f "Shadow of rome"
>nothing

Fuck you guys

>>257155913
Do you seriously think that;s the Persian Empire anon?

>>257155913
>Persians

At least google it if you're going to comment.

>>257152579

Ars Oratoria.
Modern Italians still do it, albeit a bit less dramatically.

>>257156123
>China
>Persia
>Mesopotamia
>Anatolia
>Undeveloped

>>257156123
>400 years to conquer less land than the Mongols did in 25

Stay mad Romans

>>257155721
Most of that is completely barren though.

>>257156123

While the Mongol Empire was definitely nothing compared to Rome, the whole stereotype of savage and bloodthirsty Mongols isn't entirely true either. It was actually a pretty great place to live. What wasn't great was being conquered by them, so most people just surrendered without a fight.

>>257156190
>>257156157
>>257156132
right fine, russia.

>>257155721
Big? Yes.
Densly populated? No.
Lasting empire? No.
Basis of modern civilization? No.

Though 10% of all Asians are now direct decendands of Ghengis Khan which is cool I guess.

>>257156127
Technically it was, as a state it was a continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire created in the late 300s. It called itself Rome, the people called themselves Romans and it had a continuation of government that lasted (except for the 1204-1260s shenanigans) pretty much continuously.

It was the Roman Empire, it had its prestige for a reason. It was the same nation state.

>>257156085
I really don't like the new maps attempts to be 'realistic.' Much preferred Risk style maps with simpler models, made me feel more like a planning general.

What's the difference between the roman and the holy roman empires?

These things were never taught to me in history lessons.

>there will never be an open-world game set in Augustan Rome carefully researched to be as accurate as possible

I would suck someone dry for this shit. You have no idea.

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>>257149554

>>257155721
>Alexander's empire
>kickstarted Hellenism which had a massive cultural impact on the world, opening trade routes from Iberia to India and encouraging the development of the sciences and arts across its domains
>Genghis's empire
>devastated China, ravaged eastern Europe, and singlehandedly ended the Islamic Golden Age in Persia and Central Asia
Mongols are shit, bro.

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>>257156141
My nigga

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Shadow of Rome and Colosseum are my favorite console Roman games.
Rome: Total war and Praetorian for PC.

I thought RYSE was alright if not just because the main character was kind of cool.

>>257155394

The oldest Op is a faggot

>>257156292

>Rome's contribution to mankind

too numerous to list

>Mongols contribution to mankind

the black death.

>>257156575

Not to mention due to its shitty engine it took forever to load a turn.
After some time it could take up to 10 minutes (I've heard people say it took even longer) to load a new turn.

>>257156623
>An RPG set during classical antiquity, with a life sized map of Europe. You can choose the year you start, anywhere from 265 BC to 470 AD. Factions will be historically accurate. You can choose where you start and it will generate an origin story based on that. You can do whatever you want. Historical events will occur regardless of whether you interact with them or not. So the Punic Wars will always happen. You can join the Roman army and make sure history stays correct, or fight for Carthage and change history, or just be a travelling merchant who simply makes money off history. There's no real main plot, you're not really some grand chosen one, just a regular person making their way in the world. Comes with an online game world that starts at the earliest point and has time continually pass.
My dream game.

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>>257149554
>implying your empire is worth shit

>>257156660
>ended the Islamic Golden Age

That's a good thing for us westerners you know that right?

>>257156660

>islam

>golden age

never happened.

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>Roman Empire
>20.5% of the land of the world's Greatest Empire

>>257156587
Roman Empire was a state centred on the Italian society of Rome that lasted through classical antiquity.

The Holy Roman Empire was a state formed by a medieval king descended from the Germanic barbarian Franks focused on modern Germany and central Europe generally. Frankish territory originally covered all of France, Germany and Austria. During the course of the early middle ages the different regions of "Francia" divided on language grounds until you got the medieval states of France, the Holy Roman Empire (essentially Germany) and a bunch of others.

I ACCIDENTALLY RE-USED A FORK I ATE WITH YESTERDAY WITHOUT WASHING IT FIRST

AM I GOING TO DIE PLEASE HELP /V/

>>257156660

The Mongol Empire was great for trade as well. The roads were relatively safe within the borders.

>>257156540
>10% of all Asians are now direct decendands of Ghengis Khan which is cool I guess.

99% of all europeans are descendants of charlemagne which is cooler

>>257156587
Rome was true Romans, HRE was some shitty Germans desperately seeking to validate themselves so they took the name

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Greece>Rome

>>257156962

>conquered a bunch of people with sticks

Good job m8.

>>257156973
Enjoy your Ebola, retard.

>>257154868
>II.2.3 (Bar of Athictus; right of the door); 8442: I screwed the barmaid

Alpha as fuck

>>257156778

To be fair Justinian brought the Justinian plague to Italy in his reconquest wich is one of the main reasons for the dark ages.

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>>257157150
isn't it great

>>257149554

Fucker, the Romans didn't use spacing. That came later. Here's how it should look, unless you can actually translate to classical Latin (Also fuck declensions):

>THISTHREADISMADEBYTHEORDEROFIMPERATORGAIVSIVLIVSCAESAROCTAVIANVSDIVIFILIVSAUGVSTVSTODISCVSSTHEGLORYOFROMEANDALLVIDEOGAMESTHATATTEMPTTOCAPTURETHATTHISMONTHSPVBLICBREADISPROVIDEDBYTHECAPITOLINEBROTHERHOODOFMILLERSTHEBROTHERHOODVSESONLYTHEFINESTFLOVRTRVEROMANREADFORTRVEROMANS

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>>257157139
:)

>>257156873

>no european conquests except the odd island

>no conquest and absorption of arch rival into empire

not even close britfag.

>>257156914
No it wasn't.
It's only called that because it was under the banner of an Islamic empire, not because it had anything to do with religion.

Guys like Avicenna and Averroes had a big impact on western thought in the long run.

>>257156587
The HRE only exists because at the time, the true Roman Emperor, the Eastern Roman Emperor was actually an Empress, and the Pope thought well that can't really be the Roman Imperitor so he crowned Charlemagne Roman Emperor for consolidating power over most of Central Europe

>>257156873

That's an anachronistic map, those territories weren't held at the same time.

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>>257156973
>not assigning specific dishes for specific foods and reusing that same dish over and over

>>257157139
Greece has literally never even won against Kebab
How is Greece superior to anything?

>>257157238
>dark ages

le 19th century scholarship face

The only place that had something even vaguely resembling that was Britain during the late 6th century after the writer Gildas.

>>257157417

Dat ass was my first vidya fap

>>257156864

Good luck getting game companies to accurately model late Roman armor and military formations accurately. It would disappoint and confuse too many people.

>>257157004
Can confirm this is true. Did my grandmothers family tree and got her back to Charlemagne. Also Alfred the Great.

>>257157505
>what is the Macedonian conquest of the entire Middle East

>>257155721
That's good anon. Now lets see you hold on to it.

>>257157352
Absorption of the Mughal and Maratha Empire and the conquest of 30% of the world's population not significant then?

>>257156587

Romans where the greatest force for good an civility Europe has ever seen.

The holy roman empire was a drunk german cosplay.

>>257157510

>Great depopulation of cities
>Decadence of the arts and sciences
>Demographic collapse
>Lack of central administration
>"wars" were a bunch of skirmishes between local warlords, large "wars" were slightly larger skirmishes between warlords called kings

Revisionist pls go

>>257157379
I think you're quoting the wrong post

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>>257156873
Why didn't you own this country that's right in the middle of your territory if you're so great? Could it be that you're just taking other people's leavings? :))))):)):::)

>>257157505
>who is Themistocles
>who is Leonidas
>who is Alexander
>who is Justinian

>>257157376
>implying Charlie gave the pope a choice on who was getting crowned

>>257156660
mongol empire was great for trade you dingus and reminded eastern europe that cavalry charges are srs business since they somehow forgot after the huns

>>257157729
lol silly byzantine
there were no kebabs back then
neither islam nor the turks even existed

>>257158037

Eastern europe was much bigger on cavalry than western europe actually.

>>257158104
I assumed you were talking about Greeks and easteners generally. I'm not that guy.

>>257158026
But Justinian was the last Latin Emperor of the Eastern Empire.

>>257158037
Yeah it was great for trade routes that already existed for milennia. You know, the ones Alexander and his successors opened up in the first place.

>>257158008
The funny thing is that despite that Mozambique is in the Commonwealth, not joking

>tfw this is the closest we'll get to a /his/ board
it's a shame that any actual history board will boil down to 'hitler did literally nothing wrong'

>>257157505
0/10

>>257157807

no.

dying and decrepit empires that are already in terminal decline isn't impressive.
look at the Punic wars and point towards an equal or greater triumph that the Brits could compare it too.

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>>257156141

god damn that game was awesome

>>257158036
Stuff i've read makes it appear that Charlemagne wasn't really that into the idea, that it was sort of sprung upon him by the Pope, Popes of that era were decadent as fuck and squabbling with local Italian and Lombard aristocrats, by coronating Charlemagne the Pope was getting Frankish support for his own bullshit power struggles in Italy.

>>257158445

I would say emerging victorious against the etruscans and samnites was much more impressive, but those are hardly mentioned in the history of rome.

>>257155721

So why did neither Alexander or Genghis Khan manage to conquer India?

>>257158328
If you filter the Holocaust threads /pol/s had some pretty good threads on Rome and Western Civ in general.

>>257158182
yh and they got shit by the huns and the mongols
>>257158310
trade doesn't work like that. new tech, new materials and new goods came back apparent due to genghis knwoing his trade and not being a greedy dick.
the mongols always tried to trade first but the chinese refused and got their shit pushed in and so did the persians.

>>257158669
Elephants

>>257158306
>probably Thracian
>ruled from Greece
>Orthodox as fuck
>Hagia Sophia
Eh he was basically Greek.

>>257157834
>implying

And I quote Salvian during the fall of the Roman empire.

>So as not to perish under public persecution, they go and seek Roman humanity among the Barbarians, as they can no longer support Barbarian inhumanity among the Romans.

>tfw standing on the other side of Hadrian's Wall in a field, wearing a skirt.

Get tae fuck Romans you big fucking girls.

>>257158445
>Maratha Empire
>Dying and decrepit

If the conquest of India was so easy why was only one of the Great Powers able to properly do it?

>Pondicherry
>Goa

>>257158669
>Alexander
His soldiers mutinied because they'd been marching for like 8 years by that point and they wanted to spend their back pay and fuck some women.

>Genghis Khan
India had a lot of fortified cities, elephants terrify horses

>>257158669
Because India is huge and geographically diverse as fuck. Plus their kingdoms were stronger than most people think.

>>257158328
In this case would be "Mussolini did nothing wrong"

>>257158721

The eastern europe at the time of the huns wasn't the same at the time of the mongols, mainly there were no slavs but other nomads and german tribes.

The huns shat on the germanic tribes and other nomadic tribes, wich pushed them westward and prompted the great migration

>>257157238
Except Milan because Milan fucking rocks to this day aswell

>>257158008
>wanting tainted goods

>>257158647

Bringing the latins to heel isn't really the beginning of the empire though, imho.

>>257158785

He was roman, we don't get to decide what a nation consider themselves.

There have been plenty of emperors from africa or even germany, no one considers them anything other than roman emperors.

>>257158479
> Popes at the time were decadent
Your thinking of the Church during the Renaissance. The Popes were the only unifying figure in Christendom. They kept all the squabling kings (whether under Charles the Great or not) and the Eastern Empire from falling into absolute chaos.

>>257158669
MOUNTAINS
FOLOWED BY JUNGLE
FOLLOWED BY ELEPHANTS
MIXED WITH VIRUS'S
AND THEN THEIR ARE THE NATIVE BUSH WOOKIES

in that order
ever since the greeks and Phoenicians discovered elephants they said don't fuck with the elephants

>>257159009
>Milan
Backstabbing traitorous assholes in M2TW, Milan a shit

>>257159164

It was more impressive because Rome was just a shitty city state, the samnite were famous warriors and the etruscans were already a developed kingdom

>>257158785
>greek
>meaning anything before the 19th century

>>257158985
>The eastern europe at the time of the huns wasn't the same at the time of the mongols, mainly there were no slavs but other nomads and german tribes.
>The huns shat on the germanic tribes and other nomadic tribes, wich pushed them westward and prompted the great migration
I know

>>257153958
ancient rome were corrupted and went to shit
fascism was corrupted and went to shit
italy is corrupter and is going to shi

no matter what italians can't into goverment
siamo comunque fottuti

i for one want a united state of europe and welcome our new germans overlords

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Best and most unexpected Empire coming through

>>257159357
FUCK MILAN, those fucking backstabbers

>>257159416

I'm not saying it wasn't i'm just saying i don't consider it part of imperial rome.

>>257159430
>greek/byzantine
>def. various cultures that spoke greek

How is this not explanatory?

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Liberators or traitors?

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>>257157729
>Macedonian conquest

>Greece

you seem to be somewhat confused

>>257159546

>greenland

All that amazing land, it's a wonder they're not the richest country in the world yet.

>>257159724
>LOL it took XL of v II occidere me

>>257159293
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeculum_obscurum

This is a little bit later but it was still pretty bad beforehand, it was only the Papal reforms of the 11th century that stopped the Papacy being complete shit.

Popes didnt stop people from killing each other until the 11th century with the Peace of God movement, before that it was robber barons slaughtering and pillaging everywhere.

>>257159546
you forgot new foundland

>Rome literally founds the western world and culture as we still know it today
>Mongols gave us some good yak-milking and archery tips, and lost everything they had in a single generation

yeah, Mongols fuckin rule dudes.

>>257159786

What? Macedon is Greek.

>>257159724
>I was just pretending.jpg

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>>257158929

because the people of India has never met an Englishman or a jew before.

>>257159786
>Greek speaking people from Greece
>not Greek

>>257156873
>either barren lands or underdeveloped countries to this day still
>english rifles vs crude weapons

>english "empire"
>worth a shit
May I remind you that you got your ass kicked by someone who VOWED NON-VIOLENCE

>>257159786
Ancient Macedonians were Greek.

Modern Macedonians are Slavs.

There was no Slavs in antiquity.

I'm not even Greek or Macedonian so there's no nationalist bullshit in this.

Welp, this thread has got me in the mood for some Empire building

Rome 2, Napoleon or Empire guys?

>>257159786
'Greece' was not a state or a nation, it was a cultural sphere. 'The Hellenic World'. Macedon was most certainly Hellenic going back into pre-history

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>>257159934
ghengis rules

>>257159786
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iz4jNS4wC0

>>257160132
Medieval 2

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>>257159947
>>257160048
megalomaniac shitskin greeks detected

>>257158929

And they managed to lose it without a fight!

>>257160201
It is my favourite Total War but I'm not really in the mood for that era

>>257160132
None of these. Rome 1, M2TW or Shogun 2

I am pissed off Rome 2 is such a fucking let down

Hegemony: Rome comes close as an actual Rome Total War successor.

Fuck CA

>>257160132
>Rome 2
how about no

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>>257153848
So many lost hours in High School. So many Barbarian crushed. So many Legions lost.

>>257160232
What's next? You going to tell us that Italian speakers from Milan aren't Italian?

>>257160345
I thinks it alright, not as good as Shogun 2 but it's fine

>>257160132
Rome 1 with Mundus Magnus
Play as Julii master race, ignore Gaul for the most part, make a rush for Greece and Africa, cut off the expansion routes of the other Roman factions

>>257160309

Upgrade your toaster :)

Do you guys know some good total war let's plays? Thread got me in the mood, but I can't play myself right now.

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>>257160191
>they lost because some dumbfucks didn't know shit about history

>>257160191

>he was born in pella

>pella is in modern greece

i hope these people where fucking reimbursed or compensated.

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>>257160419
they're german

>>257160048

he just said a not-greece country tho.

>>257160048
Macedonians spoke their own language. Every piece of text from alexander's time asserts that they are different peoples by referring to them as "the macedonians and the greeks" and never includes them together. The belief that alexander was greek is modern and desperate.

>want to play Rome 1
>remember the completely inane and ahistoric dividing of Rome into 3 competing factions

isn't there like a mod or something to get rid of that

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>>257160232

Are you retarded?

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>dat feel when recreating alexanders empire

>>257149893

hello good sir. I've forgotten how to get webm vids to play sound. Would you be so kind as to tell me this bit of information. Thank you my friend.

>>257160465
>>257160465
You rustling jimmies bro.

You rustling them something fierce

>>257160686
How does combat work in these games?

>>257160686

Now show the religion map.
I have a great suspicion you did it the wrong way.

>>257160832
The correct question to ask is ...


How the fuck do you play that game.

>>257160832

it doesn't

>>257154542
Here's hoping for Eastern Asia.

>>257160107
>>257160107

Show me ANY document that reconds greeks or greece before 1800s

Macedonia exists on every map and is mentioned as a people and a sovereign country and kingdom in all the relevant ones

Macedonia having anything to do with greek city states is a part of the idea to fit in the 'Hellenic'-based invention scholars had of the old world, like this greek chap tries to convince us so strongly -"It was all greeks" :^)

>>257160601
>At the time Pella was in Macedonia though

>>257160832

LOL

>>257160668
But it did add some interesting factors. It was at least semi realistic because the Triumvirates did that. Rome would be way OP without the civil war.

>>257160881
git gud

>>257159430
Are you actually retarded?

>>257161049
This doesn't help

>>257160881
>>257160902
>>257160947
So what, there's no combat?

>>257160853
It's an old savegame but I can assure you it's Hellenic

are u guys cosplaying, is this cosplay. lol

>>257158968
but mussolini did nothing wrong for his time

>>257160913

They didn't even add India properly, I doubt they'd get China to work.

>>257161114
Its not the fact that there is no combat, its the fact the game isn't really a game

>>257160902
this x1000 vs x10 dice roll lol you lose
basically build an army stack move them and hope you make it to the place before the opposition army moves and then siege and wait for heaven to open up
it really really sucks

>>257161114

It's map painting simulator.

>>257161263

What?

>>257161114

You move your armies to provinces, that's it.
The combat isn't the focus.

>>257160654
>Macedonians spoke their own language
No, they spoke their own dialect of Greek.
Protip: Ionians, Athenians, Laconians, Thessalians, Corinthians, Macedonians and so on all spoke a different dialect. There was no standardized "Greek" until Koine.

Are there any mods that add or modify naval combat in the earlier games?

Rome is shit.
Renaissance Italy is where it's at.


Da Vinci is NEVER EVER a bad guy in videogames.

>>257161360
CK2 is actually really fun if you focus on the dynastic mechanics and try to ignore warfare
You can do all kinds of awesome stuff

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>>257151792

>>257160654

Saying Macedon wasn't great is the same as saying Athens or Sparta weren't Greek.

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>>257161114

Armies are drawn from your landed vassals and they move on the map, when two armies hostile to each other land on the same province their composition is used to calculate casualties and victory.

Example.

>>257161582

>great

I meant Greek.

>>257161515
the one thing about assceed that can never be taken away is how well they orchestrated and reinvented the renaissance period map wise.

we need more renaissance games

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>>257160601
>>257160672
Macedonian within Turkey before 1912 and its partition in 1913 among victorious aggressors from the Balkan League: Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Albania

>>257161423

Not him mate but saying that macedonians are greeks is like saying that byzantines were greek.

Macedonians were macedonians, they had their own kingdom and both the greeks and macedonians saw themselves as different people, the byzantines never called themselves byzantines (it's a term made up by 16th century scholars) but romans wich inhabited part of the balkans and anatolia.

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>>257161114
Not exactly....Think Hearts of Iron 3 without an Order of Battle or Width and that's CK2's combat in a nutshell.

>>257155036
>testudo
br, please go!

>>257161845

Athenians weren't Greek, they were Athenians.

>>257161845
Dude, Byzantine is literally a word for Medieval Greeks who were ruled from Byzantium

Byzantine is interchangeable with Greek

>>257152579
Oratory arts. Subtle but important shit, keep an eye on a politician making a speech-even today they do hand gestures.

>>257161845
Byzantines were Greek, they just called themselves Romans.

Macedonians considered themselves their own separate people AND Greek at the same time, just like Athenians considered themselves Athenians first and Greeks second. It really isn't that complicated. They had their own state but so did every other Greek polity.

>>257149554
wtf are UIDEO GAMES?

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>>257161828
It's not hard to understand. Look up Partition of Macedonia in 1913. Before this period, "Greece" never had territories beyond Thessaly which they too annexed some years before

>>257154868
>VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1882: The one who buggers a fire burns his penis

Behold the wisdom of ancient times.

>>257161845
>saw themselves as different people
No, southern Greeks saw Macedonians as backwards chair-sitters, but they never once thought of them as non-Hellenic. They were never called barbarians, whereas Thracians and Illyrians often were.

>>257162069

That's wrong, also pointless.

>>257162167

>Byzantines were Greek, they just called themselves Romans.

No, they were Romans, you don't get to decide what a group of people identify themselves as.

The people living in San marino are pretty much the same as italians, yet they aren't italians because they don't consider themselves italians, it's not that hard.

>>257156873
>>257156962
>>257158008
It's ironic you would use Great Britain to shit talk Rome, considering Rome made the British Isles something worth giving a shit about, gave them culture, and their ability to make things other than crude sticks, and shit huts.
A lot of brits considered themselves the true heirs of the Roman Empire, also.

>>257162370
>not understanding the difference between political identity and cultural identity

>>257162370
>The people living in San marino are pretty much the same as italians, yet they aren't italians because they don't consider themselves italians, it's not that hard.

That's retarded, sammarinese are ethnic italians, who follow italian cultural traditions and speak the italian language

Saying they're not italian is stupid

>>257162567
actually that was the celts

>>257162370
Romans were people from the city of Rome. People who lived under the Roman Empire labelled themselves Romans when given citizenship under Caracella's edict of 212.

Ethnically they were Greek, but they were part of what was still called Rome, so they called themselves Romans.

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>mfw completing full Liberty tree with romans in Civ V

DAYUM SON

>>257162636
>Saying they're not italian is stupid
not in this argument, but you're stupid.

>>257159872
underrated post

>>257162708
Are you referring to the shit huts? Because I agree. Still though, everything else still stands.

>>257160419
Italian is a fake language made up in 1860. People from Milan spoke their local language, if I recall Piedmontese or Milanese. Each Italy area has its own fucking village language that other Italians can't understand (good luck listening to Sicilian).

>>257162834
Italy the state is not the same thing as the Italian people faggot
There are tons of Italians still living in Istria, who speak Italian regularly and follow Italian traditions

>>257162714
>Liberty.
>Not Empire.

Plebians, please leave.

>>257152579
Ars Oratoria
Look at Hitler's speeches, he did it too, and the people loved him.

>>257162606

What about cultural identity? Their culture was the roman one, their religion was the state religion of the roman empire.

Their political identity wasn't greek, I don't get what were you trying to say.

>>257162636

They're not italians.
>sammarinese
c'mon

>>257162713

It's a flawed argument, first of all, they were ethnically people from the balkans and middle east, saying they were greeks is extremely ignorant, setting that aside, nothing changed between the end of the western roman empire and the empire of justinian, the only real change was the affirmation of greek as the main language wich culminated in the 9th century.

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>MMXIV
>POSTING PICTVRES FOR ANTS

>>257163016
italians rarely like each other and venicians hate everyone. it's a matter of time before they split or some shit

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>>257163175
????

>>257163253
>2534x1540

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>>257162345
>greeks didnt consider macedonians foreigners
>implying

>Demosthenes the Orator against Philip of Macedon, father of Alexander The Great:
>Third Philippic 31:
>"...he is not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honour, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave."

>>257163303

I'll never understand all those closely related ethnic groups hating each other so much. You don't see any of that here.

>>257163384
The greeks were elastic as shit on this-skip forward to the Greaco-Persan war and you see them calling the Macedonians fellow greeks, trying to get them on board against Persia.

>>257163384
A Greek is anyone who spoke the Greek language. Demosthenes' speeches were for political purposes intended so i'm not sure why you'd use them for this.

>>257160913
They said they wont do it. India cause many computers to implode already, China would be a disaster.

>>257163074
it's like saying mexicans are spanish.
yes ethnically but they don;t identify and spaniards since they weren't born in or reside in spain

>>257163303

>it's a matter of time before they split or some shit

Wars were started for lesser territory, whover thinks a region can split from its own country is a deluded faggot.

>>257163561
everyone is greek guise, even non-greeks, hellenes whatever, it's all greek xDD

>>257163653
But muh self determination

>>257163726

What was the point of this post?

>>257163898
What was the point of yours? He clearly says they weren't "greek"- a term that's been re-edited in modern times because there wasn't a greek nationality to begin with

>>257163553
it's village rivalry pent up over the centuries and made worse with crossings, back stabbings and double crossings and buying wives and then triple crossing

>big fan of Roman history, mythology, literature
>studied latin in high school, still read Ovidius for fun
>make Sengoku Rance clone of the Illiad instead of anything Roman because it's so easy to envision

I-I'll get to you eventually, Aeneas. I promise.

I think I'm gonna go to sleep, the hellenephiles ruined the thread.

Just run that radiant dawn or whatever the fuck it's called to the ground and pay your debts will you.

>>257156123

B-but.. horse archers are invincible!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Molodi

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>>257163384
Makedones were Dorians though, the Pella tablets show that even the lower classes spoke Doric Greek. Demosthenes was just buttmad that the Argeades were stronger than his shit polis.

>>257163561
You had to have a Greek father and a similar culture.

>>257164387
call em keshiks instead

>>257164557

Weren't hypaspist actually sworsmen?

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>>257149554
Oh man so this newest patch of EU4 is making it a bitch to take a fresh byzantium and return it to its former glory.

I've managed to get this far and am finally westernizing, anyone know if EU4 supports the reformation of the roman empire like 3 did?

>>257164131

Yeah, but it's not just Italy, you can see it all over the world. I get that there's a lot of history behind it all, but all ethnic groups have a history of war.

>>257159724
In a sense the Roman Republic wasn't worth saving. It was basically run by mafia families. Not only that, but the republic was set up in a way where as a senator, you had to get fame and glory and power, and be the best you could be. However, if you got too much fame, glory, and power, you were a tyrant and no better than the old kings. And the line that defined a tyrant was completely arbitrary, so you would have a situation where a senator had to know when to pass political opportunities by. In this sort of system, a powerful man like Caesar (or Marius or Cincinnatus) becoming a dictator is bound to happen. Maybe the Roman Empire was a natural progression of history, as was its destruction.

"To robbery, plunder, slaughter, they give the lying name of Empire. They make a desert, and call it peace." - Tacitus, a Roman senator.

>>257164557
>one tablet found in neighbouring country
they were greek!! xDDD

Americans are also English, remember

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>>257164873
versatile niggas

>>257156927
>Islamic nations encouraged the arts and sciences of the time
>Scholars of all religions and cultures welcomed to discuss things
>Meanwhile Catholic Church is burning books

>>257164925

I don't think so, but there's probably a mod for it.

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>>257164925

Don't forget your tools anon

>>257164964
uhh, mafia wasn't around until the second half of the 19th century.
but yes, there were patrician families which had influence on the senate in ancient rome.

>>257165282
>basically
I think he wasn't being literal.

>>257164964
The Republic was still better than the Empire though. The infighting brought by the Empire was the death of the Roman civilization.

>>257164956
>Yeah, but it's not just Italy
never said it was
>but all ethnic groups have a history of war.
as I said, backstabbing, double crossing wife stealing barbari with a first for power. tahts what humans are

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>>257160080
>Ghandi
>Non violence
have you even played Civ 5?

>>257165282
I meant to compare the organisation and practices of the patrician families to that of mafia families, I was not being literal.

>>257157109
What game is this?

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I have such a raging hardon for The Roman Empire.

Why were they so based?

>>257165438

The infighting wasn't brought by the empire, but the marian reforms and the size of the empire.

Professional armies meant a stronger military than anyone else, but also soldiers that never do anything else, couple that with the extent of the roman borders and you have your typical legion that has never seen the walls of the city wich the guy on the coins lives in, let alone know their emperor, meanwhile the general wich they fought with all this time is raising a claim to the throne.

Who do you think they're going to support?

>>257164964
>It was basically run by mafia families. Not only that, but the republic was set up in a way where as a senator, you had to get fame and glory and power, and be the best you could be. However, if you got too much fame, glory, and power, you were a tyrant and no better than the old kings. And the line that defined a tyrant was completely arbitrary, so you would have a situation where a senator had to know when to pass political opportunities by. In this sort of system, a powerful man like Caesar (or Marius or Cincinnatus) becoming a dictator is bound to happen.
sounds just like modern politics

>>257165687
Tacitus thought the Roman Empire was shit. And he lived in it.

>>257165687
>You will never take part of an orgy in Ancient Rome
Why even live?

>>257165837

Most of /v/ also thinks /v/ is shit.

it is

>>257165101
I agree with you but
>Catholicism
>burning books
>when alexander was around
m8

>>257165796
It's almost as if a democracy where power is heavily entrenched within the upper classes is bound to dissolve into authoritarian rule.

>>257165979
>Islamic Countries
>When Alexander was around
m8

>>257165837

Maybe actually living in it wouldn't be as great.

But they were based nonetheless.

>>257165945
To waifus, shitposting, e-drama, they give the lying name of internet discussion. They make a desert, and call it video games.

>>257166175
Islam is older the christianity m8

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>>257166304

>>257166339

What

>>257166089
even the greeks saw the problems of democracy and suffered first hand from the problems of total autocracy yet half the people who say "the greeks invented modern democracy etc" have no clue how they came upon that conclusion for that time peiod

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>>257166339

>>257166339
>>257166763
>Hinduism is older than both

>>257154919
actually the ottomans considered themselves to be the continuation of the greek caesars, so in one way the roman empire lasted 2k years.

>>257166913

It's older than all modern religions.
Jesus actually studied it, which influenced his teachings.

>>257164925
well fuck me i got steamrolled by the ottomans/crimeans and a coalition of almost every small country around me. They didn't let up until I was bankrupted and lost half my territory then venice joined in the fun to finish me off while I was laying on the ground with cum gushing out of every hole.

>>257165837
tacitus was edgy faggot who saw germans as "noble savages"

>>257166782
And yet the Athenians were democratic and yet they could be just as savage as the more autocratic city states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melian_dialogue

>>257166985
Actually the Roman Catholic Church sees itself as the continuation of the Western Empire so Rome never fell

>>257166913
the islam guy was clearly jesting no need to get all my religion is superior to your religion in here
inb4
>/int/
>/pol/
>/b/
get in on the discussion

>>257165772
Yeah, the old system was great at ruling a city state, but impractical for a Mediterranean empire. Kind of hard to get things done within a year when it might take a few months to get to a troublesome province.

>>257165101

>enslave roman artisans and learned men

>force them to convert

we golden age now

>>257166985
actually the holy roman empire considered themselves to be the continuation of the roman caesars, so in one way the roman empire lasted 2k years.

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>>257167070

[citation fucking needed]

>>257166985
Even without the Ottomans it still lasted 2000 years.
>April 21 753 BC
>May 29 1453 AD
2000 years exactly

>>257167090
He didn't really. He just used them as a foil to show how far Romans had fallen from the noble farmers of the Republic.

>>257167191
>implying

>>257166985
russians did it too

>>257167148
it is only one institution left from the was aparatus the roman empire was

>>257166985
>actually the ottomans considered themselves many things so nobody really takes them seriously

>>257163242
>their culture was a Roman one
Yeah, speaking and writing in Greek, following Orthodoxy, venerating icons, wearing flamboyant clothes and partitioning the empire into themes was totally Roman culture.

/v/ - Vancient History

>>257167090
And yet he was completely right. Empire is a self-destroying institution.

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>>257167162
there is nothing to argue about

>>257167532

This is incredibly retarded.

Also, don't bring that shit here, we're talking about ancient history.

>>257167532
JIDF pls go
The J stands for Jesuit

>>257167478
Every board could use a good history thread every once in a while

>>257167092

Athens is literally the best city that has ever or will ever be raised on this god forsaken rock.

>>257167092
its true. they understood that rulings powers will always be in the hands of the few. even when they tried to give power to the many (30 tyrants) shit fucks up fast

why is the captcha being such a bitch a clearing all the fucking time fucking hell google

who /parthia/ here

>>257164964
the republic always had a pathological fear of tyrant-types, and clipped the wings of a lot of vainglorious, inappropriately ambitious men. But men like Sulla and Marius did not take kindly to rebukes, or to being politically undercut, and so turned on their enemies with violence. They damaged the community to protect their own positions, wealth, and prestige, and that precedence was set forever. Wealth and command became more important than the dignity and health of the republic.

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>>257151792

>you will never charge into battle against the romans

Why live?

>>257167510

everything is a self destroying. decay is the natural order of the universe.

>>257167532
fuck off

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>go to forvmstop
>looking to pick vp new copy of grand theft horse
>VIII/X bella at the covnter
>ohmyjvpiter.mosaic
>gotta keep it together
>go vp to the covnter with the game
>she smiles and says "that will be III denarii"
>sweatingintensifies.mosaic
>reach into my toga
>no denarii, only pastae comes ovt
>stvtter ovt "w-wovld yov like to go to the c-colossevm with me"
>she politely smiles and says "sorry, I already have a boyfriend named secvndvs"
>sprint ovt of there crying like a greek watching a tragedy all the way back to my villa
>didn't even get my game
>pleb as fvck
FVCKING FORVMSTOP