"They spend $600 on an iPad, $4 on coffee, drop $20 on lunch, but spending $4-$5 on a game is this life-altering decision"
A friendly reminder that Iwata is right, and free to play is going to devalue video games more then Steam sales will.
No he means that Free to play or low cost games makes Mobile Audience afraid of spending too much money on a game with a price with 20-30 dollars.
This means that Apple/Google appstore have devalued video games.
>and free to play is going to devalue video games more then Steam sales will.
Why can't all the free to play retards realize that they're just speeding up the destruction of the industry and making it harder on themselves in the long term.
Sure it's easier to not make a game worth full price and just stack it full of micro transactions but this lazy ass mentality will come back to bite them and everyone around them
With absolutely no curating being done, it's not a surprise.
Yes, nintendo games usually don't go far below $20 used, because people value their products for whatever reason.
When downloading free music became the norm who the fuck would decide to pay for an album besides those you value?
Coffee and food is harder to fuck up than a game and I can usually tell if the food or coffee will be bad by looking at the place and if it does turn out shit well at least I still get caffeine and nutrients. If I buy an iPad and I don't like it I can sell that shit. If I buy a shitty indie game on the eShop and don't like it I just have to say "HEY WELL IT ONLY COST ME A SANDWICH" and go on with my life. Fuck that, if you don't find a game fun and you can't resell it then it's a complete waste of money.
If they cut out shit the response from indie "developers" would be crazy and people would support them, that's the world we live in.
If these fags are gonna sell people garbage, Google and Apple want to control where it's being done.
It has much worse effects then just killing 60 dollar games. Google/Apple have trained a entire market not to buy Vita or even Steam priced games. They will buy only F2P games, which is bad because it means we get more half-baked games
Sub-Based MMO have been dying because of F2P is training people not to buy sub based MMOs.
F2P sure kills cancer, but they have created even a bigger cancer.`
Steam sales have already caused a depreciation on the value of games. So now instead of a complete game they gouge early adopters with $60 game, $20-$40 season pass, cash cards worth upwards of $100 and costumes worth $5-$15 each.
But free to play is much worse all around.
A better system is including a season pass or a discount on it, with new/per ordered games.
Hear this idea...
How about we focus on our market and leave the applefags and mobile fags to their own world ? Yeah, fix your house first before thinking about the others. This all sounds like suit excuses to shareholders pressure. Fuck this.
Nintendo Seal of Quality backfired once Sega's various consoles and the Playstation showed up as viable competitors.
Why bother with Nintendo's Yakuza racket quality control when you could just stick whatever the fuck you want on other platforms?
It's why Google and Apple's stores are basically a Wild West/Republican China-styled free-for-all. The second either of them starts exercising anything resembling quality control is the second the other one wins.
because when i spend money on a cup of coffee or a poutine i know exactly what to expect. when i drop money on vidya it's more likely than not mediocre rehashed garbage propped up by familiar licensed characters with only dedicated servers for multiplayer that are getting switched off in a week. not to mention if i buy a handful of titles and my 3DS breaks, suddenly i'm out an extra hundred dollars. and you're surprised i want to be sure before i throw cash at you?
i'm really starting to dislike iwata.
People won't but a $60 game
They will however buy a $120 game as long as you spread it out in small installments and over enough time.
The only way to compete if you're a business of a large size is to do the same shit.
>overabundant early access games not worth anything
>thousands of indie devs have to get real jobs
>video games come back with a higher entry bar
just really need some sort of hardship to cull the amount of shitty indies not doing anything worthwhile
>Dev spends years making a high quality game, asks for a measly $20 which is a third the price of a AAA game
>everyone shits on it, ignores it, and no one buys it
>YouTube eceleb faggot makes some god awful Minecraft or what have you clone on kikestarter, no originality and just a shit effort all around
>blows past its 500k goal 5 times over, tons of people dropping several grand on it, people repost it endlessly as the savior of gaming and heaven incarnate
Industry crash when pls?
>i'm really starting to dislike iwata.
He doesn't care.
I think something that's being ignored here is consumer response to pay $60 for a game only to have it be shit, even though every reviewer said it's omg 11/10 GOTYAY. I think the general lowering of the quality of games and extreme reviewer bias is causing as much damage as 2 bux flappy bird clones.
Read the post directly above you. Or better yet, actually read the article in the OP.
This isn't even the first time this has been pointed out in this thread. Fucking idiots.
THIS IS NOT A QUOTE FROM IWATA OR EVEN NINTENDO. The OP's angle is that Nintendo's criticisms of the mobile industry demonstrably hold water.
>The second either of them starts exercising anything resembling quality control is the second the other one wins.
There's a game of chicken going on here. Both are headed for a crash but the first to apply the brakes loses.
There's a lot of problems with the games industry building up
>shitty reviewers with no integrity
>youtubers flat out sucking any devs cock for money in exchange for paid endorsements
>overwhelming abundance of utter shit with no QC that's getting exponentially worse every year
>devaluation of good games because idiot consumers are comparing AAA titles made by a team of devs with years of experience to some shitty ftp rip off made by some filthy Indian
>free to play and freemium being forced endlessly by business types who want games to be nothing but a way to get as much money as possible.
>consumers flat out accepting rehash of the year titles and lowest common denominator, people are far too stupid for anything not spoonfed to them like a toddler
And probably a lot more reasons I didn't list. The main cause of all this is gaming becoming popular right when the internet did. Reviews are watched for how funny the guy is over content. Shilling is easier than ever before. Circlejerks happen all the time over trash. Things like the book, film, and music industry didn't have these problems starting out.
If you cater to someone who is not a gamer, he won't buy your game, this is why there's no huge smartphone gaming fanbase, the only real fanbase is on homeconsoles and by extension on PC, period.
>Why can't all the free to play retards realize that they're just speeding up the destruction of the industry
they don't care
seriously, they aren't gamers, they are just normal people
You don't but the majority of people do. Millions buy iPads every year. Millions blow $10 a day on Starbucks. Millions waste $20 eating out every day. And then they bitch about how evil corporations are and how poor they are. We need more than a industry crash, we need another worldwide market crash to fix this shit. Let the idiots who are too stupid to survive after that die out or whatever, they're the main cause of the problem anyways.
>i'm really starting to dislike iwata.
Because of something he didn't even say? That quote isn't from him, you know.
Hell, that pastebin link leads to an article that has jack shit to do with Nintendo, period.
I feel like this word is bound to go the way of "epic", its applied way too liberally these days when terms such as "janitor" or "guy that decides what songs get on the soundtrack/whatever" get the job done and don't make it sound like its describing a person working at a museum.
That said, 2048 is pretty fun but that's pretty appalling that there are that many versions of it. Seriously, why?
>he can't tell if a game will be good from gameplay videos
no, iwata warned these assholes years ago that this would happen
instead of taking his advice, indie devs got mad at him
now they have to sleep in their own shit
Nah, triple-A publishers are going to move to mobile bringing their premium prices with them.
Free2play is a gold rush at the moment but it will settle down. People will still pay more for quality graphics.
One of a few things will happen. Either just the smart phone business model is crash and only they will really be effected. Or the crash will somehow effect real gaming industry. Because there is going to be a major crash soon like in the days of Atari. The exact same shit happened. Either you are fine with Angry Birds or not that's really the best touch games can really do. Sure SE ports FF to it but they are not design for mobile. True mobile games are quick cheap games that meant to only occupy about 10 minutes max.
>because when i spend money on a cup of coffee or a poutine i know exactly what to expect
Depends on if you're buying the same type of coffee every time. Like video games, different cups have different quality.
fortunately this game seems to have floped but others with similar yet not that extreme practices are making loads of money, it's only a matter of time before things like the new Dungeon Keepers become acceptable
Smartphones are different. It's not like the old video game crash where people just didn't want to go out and buy games and systems. People have smartphones and are always going to have them, and their role as public time wasters will not change in the foreseeable future. Throwaway games which accomplish exactly that will always be popular, not because casuals really like those games but because it's always just a thing to do on your phone.
I feel the only way to really stop is if Apple or other places set new rules on what can be free and what not. Set rules on how transactions work and other things of that sort.
There's a whole bunch of guys who make these "reskins" of games. They see something become popular and they hire some poor fucker to clone it, and make 100 versions of the same thing because that's how you compete with others who do the same thing. It's the ultimate shovelware.
Because of how over saturated everything is no one can really make any real money off it. And when a game does make a hit you see clones of it the very next day. It's too much of a hassle to try to make money there. There will be another Angry Birds sooner or later but all in all it's just a waste of time for most people.
A sophisticated, well engineered piece of tech
I'd say the median purchase price for coffee is really around $2
>$4-$5 on a game of questionable/highly subjective quality
Infinitely reproducible at no additional cost outside of initial production.
$4-$5 is cheap for a new game, but should be the norm for older games..
Free to play only works for certain genres of games.
I'd say relax, we've never been in a better age of gaming.
Nintendo is a dinosaur that always sucks at responding to changes in the industry.
They hit it lucky once with the Wii. But that will never happen again.
>mf consoles think they can charge me 60 bucks for the latest rehash, while several pC companies try to bleed me dry with DLC
>that feel when being a smart shopper
OP here, but my point is that Iwata said back in 2011 that the danger of F2P shit is that customers aren't willing to pay anymore then F2P prices. Indie Developers can't charge as much as you can on steam or Sony console. People took misinterpreted Iwata, thought it was attack on mobile industry instead of legit warning.
That's the pastebin article is about Banner Saga starting to see the exact problems that Iwata and a few other people warned indie developers about. Apple is trying to come up with a way to fix the pricing issues that F2P has caused.
The quote from my OP came from the polygon article.
The problem is that iwata is wrong. You can't demand such exhorbitant prices from me when I have thousands of other options. Who the hell is he to dictate what I do with my money?
>a sophisticated, well engineered piece of tech
Stopped reading there, clearly bait
I don't see why some people take such offense. If they've been playing video games longer than a year or so then they should know it has always been an expensive hobby. It's like taking up cigars and bitching that the ones which aren't ass cost 10 dollars or more. Either stick with the shitty drug store quality or pony up.
>He is wrong
What? You're only proving him right by not wanting to buy full priced games. We've become spoiled by all the trash and clones that go for free/freemium that no one wants to buy actual games anymore. Tons of my friends are absolutely eager to drop $2 on random apps that they won't play for more than one hour, but won't buy anything more than $30 unless it's a AAA game or another COD/BF.
>Who cares if I'm getting scammed and spending too much! I'm not poor!
That's a fucking retarded mentality.
>They aren't the only ones thinking this, nearly all major AAA devs are trying to jew people with DLC shit
That's why I stick with companies whose DLC is cosmetic only, like Valve. You may hate the hats and festive crap on the weapons, but it doesn't encourage a pay2win attitude, and I'm fine with that. I also get a weird pleasure from dressing up my mercenaries like barbie dolls, so sue me. Never spent a penny on it though.
As someone with several hobbies I can't tell you vidya is one of the least expensive ones
Tho that may be just me since I'm really picky with the games I pick and often rather replay great games than buy new games that are just good
>That's why I stick with companies whose DLC is cosmetic only, like Valve.
Valve showed others that you can jew kids for maximum $$$. If anything, they paved the way for DLC and made it acceptable in this day and age.
>What? You're only proving him right by not wanting to buy full priced games.
BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THE FREAKING MONEY. I can't afford a fancy iphone or a next gen console. I have to pool my money with my roommates just to see them. The 60 dollar model is just ridiculous, and i feel like an asshole for asking my parents to buy me NES games when they were so damn expensive. It's why I wait to buy my games.
>We've become spoiled by all the trash and clones that go for free/freemium that no one wants to buy actual games anymore
Let me fix that for ya.
>I've been spoiled by good games that give me hundreds of hours of content, and are only pennies in comparison
I've spent more time in Terraria and Phantasy Star Online then every single Monster Hunter combined. I've played more TF2 than most games on consoles combined. They give me content without limiting me. How is that a bad thing?
Never pay more than $3,300,000 bucks for a computer game.
>Valve showed others that you can jew kids for maximum $$$.
So? Let them. Kids were gonna spend their money on stupid things regardless, and the overly DLC heavy games usually go under pretty fast. Star Wars: The Old Republic, for example, has never made back its budget, despite the playerbase. Other companies that made it successful were gonna jew people regardless of if they had DLC, so no difference to me.
Yes, and? They just released a new expansion for Portal. What, you'd rather them churn out yearly rehashes? No thank you.
The issue isn't being poor, it's that I don't want to throw my money away on a shaky investment. If I was rich and bought a PS4, for example, and it had no games, then guess what? It would still be a stupid decision. Saying "at least I'm not poor" wouldn't excuse the fact that I just purchased a gigantic sony brand paperweight/door stopper/movie player.
So... the issues and controversy stated in this thread are heavily influenced by them?
>so no difference to me.
>And when they came for me
>There was no one else to speak for me
>Who the hell is he to dictate what I do with my money?
Nobody. The point is that price gauging is a mindgame, if you condition people to believe that the game don't deserve what they are spending, the competition has no choice to copy it.
Developers/Jews purposefully make exploitative games with refined psychological tricks no different that what you'd find in casinos, they are the problem. Those are the ones that have screwed over many honest developers forcing them to price their games low or free with IAP just to sell.
The effect is that they have caused more and more people to use F2P shit.
What expansion? The last and only expansion they ever released happened in 2012.
But if you are talking about updates:
We have updated the public release of Portal 2. This update contains all the changes from the recent beta. We would like to thank the community for the testing and suggestions that have been provided.
>Linux / SteamOS beta is now available Steam controller support beta
>Some translation updates
>Fixed bugs with triple-monitor displays
>Some other bug fixes
>So... the issues and controversy stated in this thread are heavily influenced by them?
Are you sure it wasn't consoles, who popularized pay2play online before Valve was even a thing? You call me a mindless steam drone, but look at the next gen.
>Sony does pay2play online? Omg they're so epic! I'll gladly pay 500 bucks a month for glorious Sony online!
And Steam is the bad service here?
Naaah, come one! I really love those franchises and I am sad of playing the same maps over and over with my friends. Cold Stream was a really good mod and it was nice to see how it developed since the first time it appeared in the game, but... Damn... It's been so long...
Alien Swarm was a good game too. Not the best, but still enjoyable.
>Nobody. The point is that price gauging is a mindgame, if you condition people to believe that the game don't deserve what they are spending, the competition has no choice to copy it.
So in other words, I should spend 100 bucks for a 5 hour shooter, and if I'm not happy, I'm entitled? Is that what you're saying Bioware?
>Those are the ones that have screwed over many honest developers forcing them to price their games low or free with IAP just to sell.
Oh well. If polish computer nerds squatting in a basement can produce the Witcher 2 and Witcher 3 on a budget of 6 adidas jackets and half a turkey sandwich, maybe these developers could learn a thing or two. How about they ease up on the graphics race and the fancy gimmicks?
>Are you sure it wasn't consoles,
It was actually older than consoles, but that's not really the point. The point is that Valve did on a massive scale and proved to people that yes - the model works.
>You call me a mindless steam drone
I do. So?
>And Steam is the bad service here?
I never actually said anything about Steam. Not only is this a poor attempt at a strawman, you're trying to deflect by comparing to Sony. Stop that shit.
Well then you don't get it faggot
If you don't have the money to buy a million dollar diamond then you DONT FUCKING GET TO HAVE IT
Get off your fatass and get a real job faggot, you can't have everything you want, you have to earn it
Hell even when I was poor I could buy vidya, I just saved my cash. It's simple really, just don't be an idiot and spend money on every little thing you see. The problem is that with all this purchasing power, people get this idea in their thick skulls that they should literally be able to get anything. They can easily pick up a candy bar, a pack of cigarettes, a coffee, anything really. It's never been easier to pick up anything you want, as the products are practically everywhere and always available. They equate this to just picking up a video game, and think that this too should cost 5 to 10 dollars.
>The point is that Valve did on a massive scale and proved to people that yes - the model works.
With cosmetics. 99% of their games give you free DLC that can be accessed without spending money. Mann Versus Machine, the new weapon updates, the new maps, the new game modes, etc. You can argue cosmetics, but they give you a way to buy them, and again they don't affect the game and give people unfair advantages. They even removed the polycount sets which used to give advantages to people who bought into them, but not anymore. Valve clearly cares about the game enough to keep it going, and though they're in it for the money, they know how to treat their customers so their wallets will loosen. I can deal with that business decision.
>How about they ease up on the graphics race and the fancy gimmicks?
This isn't even why games are expensive, and it doesn't even make sense to say this about the Witcher series of games as they are usually visually impressive. Games are expensive to make mostly due to how many people are working on the game(AC games supposedly have thousands of people working on it) and marketing. This is why Nintendo's games usually do not need to sell much to break even. Supposedly a Wii U Fire Emblem would only need to sell about 750k to do. Likely because Nintendo keeps smaller dev teams and doesn't do a huge amount of advertising for singular games.
>If you don't have the money to buy a million dollar diamond then you DONT FUCKING GET TO HAVE IT
A good point. Good thing the guys down the street are selling the same quality diamonds for 10 bucks.
>With cosmetics. 99% of their games give you free DLC that can be accessed without spending money.
I'm really tempted to bring out that copypasta detailing how Valve keeps pushing DLC more and more to the point that TF2 gets completely warped because of it. But really, that's for the anti-Valve/Valvedrone threads.
>I can deal with that business decision.
And it's people like you who ultimately hurt the industry. It's such a shame that I can't do anything about it but watch my beloved hobby die.
>Likely because Nintendo keeps smaller dev teams and doesn't do a huge amount of advertising for singular games.
And what's wrong with this? As much as I don't like Nintendo's other practices, this one in particular is one that needs to catch on more. If you can't make an impressive game with a cast of 100 or less people, then consider downsizing. It's not my fault if I don't want to buy into 500 billion dollar MMOs that won't see a profit until 2020.
>Good thing the guys down the street are selling the same quality diamonds for 10 bucks
Keep telling yourself that.
I don't even get what your deal is. Why don't you just pirate shit?
>I'm really tempted to bring out that copypasta detailing how Valve keeps pushing DLC more and more to the point that TF2 gets completely warped because of it.
It's still a cartoony shooter that tries as hard as possible to abstain from Call of Duty syndrome. I accept the DLC wholeheartedly as long as it doesn't become pay2win. Let the fool buy his unusual for 300 bucks, it doesn't affect me.
>And it's people like you who ultimately hurt the industry.
You mean the industry where it's perfectly fine to charge you twice for your internet, then charge 60 dollars for games that don't even have singleplayer (TF2 at least came in the Orange Box for 30 bucks)? Oh oh oh, how about enforcing region locking, price fixing (between Sony and MS) and mandatory advertisements that interrupt you while ingame?
Whenever you bring up how much you hate Valve, you conveniently forget these things.
As a PC gamer, I have that option, and I like it. I pirated minecraft and hated it, so I uninstalled. Tried it later with mods, it was bearable, but not 30 dollars bearable.
You want me to buy that for full price, when I can buy games in a similar genre, but of superior quality, for less?
I'm not really saying there's anything wrong with it, I'm just using them as an example basically.
I remember back when the XB1 was first announced and we had all that complaining about how budgets are getting higher and higher and there's no way to get around it well, that's kind of false because Nintendo appears to be getting around it.
If Nintendo can supposedly make a game for the Wii U(which is comparable to 7th gen machines) that could sell under a million and break even then it's not the consoles fault that a company like Capcom needed DmC and RE6 to sell several million copies to get their money back, it was Capcom's.
>So in other words, I should spend 100 bucks for a 5 hour shooter, and if I'm not happy, I'm entitled? Is that what you're saying Bioware?
Here's the thing man, Nintendo's games tend to have so much more content than that. Xenoblade for example has hundreds of hours worth of content, very GOOD content at that.
I know you're not very fond of them but consider researching some of their games. I've spent so much time on Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze it's insane. It's more expensive than Super Meat Boy, but it's a more fulfilling experience.
Maybe with mods. If Mojang purposely prevented modders from making the game pallatable, I guarantee you that the game would've flopped miserably.
>these faggots who only buy games during steam sales
Uh, yeah. About that...
I'm the guy from earlier who pools his money for next gen consoles. I've tried them when my roomies weren't playing them, and I can safely say that they did not impress at all.
Give them credit, it's better than what the competition on consoles can offer, but my backlog of steam games runs circles around any console.
The fancier the graphics, the more detail they need to produce, which means more artists working to a higher standard and management hours spent ensuring everything is consistent. A Doom level could be created in about the time it'd take to play it once it was done, modern AAA and even most indies will need weeks or months to get all the geometry working just right and the light set up and a billion other time-consuming tasks that we only do because they think they need to have graphics at that level.
Plus, there's the fact that higher visual fidelity means you need different assets. If four barbarians run up to you in Skyrim with the exact same armour and haircuts it looks weird so you need a couple of variants for armour and hair and maybe a system for varying heights, in Fire Emblem: Awakening you don't even blink when a dozen identical Risen rock up for a barney, and I can probably count the polys in that armour on my fingers and toes..
Which ones exactly? Maybe I can recommend something that's for you. You might change your mind if you play something that's more your thing. I admit I don't like every Nintendo game in existence, I wasn't fond of Mother.
>Completely passing over the fact the PS3 on launch was $600
>8 years ago even
I wasn't really trying to imply that graphical fidelity doesn't increase the size of a games budget at all, although I can see how I came off that way. I was trying to say that it isn't why budgets have ballooned to such gigantic amounts of money. We aren't at the point where a game requires a 500 million dollar budget. Most of these games are that expensive not because of graphical fidelity but because they have way more people working on these games then they probably need and arespending more on marketing that's probably necessary.
"Spending $4-5 on a game is life-altering decision"
Yeah! Fucking stupid consumer, how dare you be intelligent with your money, you got $196 to blow on fucking DLC cars for Gran Turismo 6 to buy!
Well, here's my list of games I enjoyed this year and last year. You'll see that most games on consoles weren't to my liking.
Nintendo is getting around the cost of developing for the XBone by not developing for the XBone. They had their experience of throwing money into expensive high-tech with the N64 and Gamecube, and they saw that the margins aren't worth it, so they now make systems a generation behind so nobody gets the stupid idea of throwing money away for bling-mapping, so they have to use smart and efficient ways of making a game look amazing like they did in Metroid Prime and Muramasa.
The problem isn't making sure you've verified the quality of a game you want to buy, nobody but chinese shovelware fucks and EA want that, the problem is that due to exceedingly low pricepoints people aren't even bothering to check the quality of $2 chinese shovelware on their iPhones. Because it's just a couple bucks, man, who gives a fuck?
That attitude has to change or the mobile market will just continue to get worse. You wouldn't buy a candy bar for a dollar and just shrug it off if it tasted like garbage. You'd remember who made that candy bar and resolve not to buy anything from them again. And you'd complain about it to your friends. Mobile market customers are such shiteaters right now they'll give horrible products half-hearted endorsements in exchange for in-game bonuses. THAT'S how bad things are.
A higher pricepoint would sure as hell resolve that problem, but ultimately it comes down to consumers treating videogames, even $2 ones, like a REAL purchase. You're allowed to fucking complain if something is bad. Even if it's cheap. Heck, even if it's "free". It's your right as a consumer.
>Having time to play all those games
Are you employed?
>So in other words, I should spend 100 bucks for a 5 hour shooter, and if I'm not happy, I'm entitled? Is that what you're saying Bioware?
Why must you deal with absolutes? Nobody saying that industry overcharging is okay. The race to the bottom is just as fucking bad. .
60 dollar is overcharging, but you do think full-packaged games being worth 99 cents to 5$ dollar is good for gaming? You think Crytek or CDProjeckt could live off games being worth less then 5$ dollar?
The best you will get is Infinty Blade.
>Oh well. If polish computer nerds squatting in a basement can produce the Witcher 2 and Witcher 3 on a budget of 6 adidas jackets and half a turkey sandwich, maybe these developers could learn a thing or two. How about they ease up on the graphics race and the fancy gimmicks?
Steam or GOG devalution is fine because it harms mostly $60 charging Publishers who overcharge too much. F2P devaluation is bad for the entire market because it's mean things like Witcher or Zeno Clash could not exist without becoming F2P in the mobile market.
Divinity Original Sin could not exist in the mobile market because has to follow the rules that cancer like Angry Birds or Farmvilla has created. Nobody saying AAA industry overcharging is good, but F2P can cause Atari's shovelware 2.0 to happen.
F2P lowers the values of middle market games or honest games like Shovelware.
They have a lot of people working on the game because modern graphical fidelity requires a lot of work be done. They can't get the music for the whole game done by one guy with a PC-88 like in the Mega Drive days, it has to be a team of composers and a full orchestra, and they can't have a programmer throw together a lava texture he needs because they need a university educated artfag to create something that looks lush in 1080p, and they need this sort of thing for every-damn-thing.
Platinum games sacrifices some graphical tricks because they need to leave headroom for 60fps, and when you see in their documentaries that there's two guys doing the music, one guy doing enemy designs, one girl doing character designs and one girl doing environments, it's obvious that you're better off paying fewer people to make something that avoids the bleeding edge of technology and looks good more because of the original designs they did on paper than the hardware it runs on.
The faggot posts his shitty ratings in every thread it has nothing to do with. He's the most non-anonymous shitter without a name or trip. Just report and hide, don't attempt to argue, especially about visual novels/adventure games or fucking Miku games.
>60 dollar is overcharging, but you do think full-packaged games being worth 99 cents to 5$ dollar is good for gaming? You think Crytek or CDProjeckt could live off games being worth less then 5$ dollar?
All I'm saying is this: give me a product that can compete with what I enjoy, and I'll consider sinking money into it. The competition gives me fun for mere pennies, so I'm afraid major developers will have to bend over and learn to spend less on game development. If they don't want to cut back on fancy graphics, that's too bad for them.
>F2P devaluation is bad for the entire market because it's mean things like Witcher or Zeno Clash could not exist without becoming F2P in the mobile market.
This hasn't really affected the games I enjoy, many of which are singleplayer experiences.
>"They spend $600 on an iPad, $4 on coffee, drop $20 on lunch, but spending $4-$5 on a game is this life-altering decision"
I can't pirate an iPad, coffee, or lunch.
>technology still under development that's too expensive for consumer-side use other than as a novelty, and has yet to be adopted for serious, widespread use by most manufacturers and businesses
3D printer, you're what I've been looking for all along!
That doesn't answer my question.
You clearly hold games as having little value, if any. So why are you ranting and raving in a thread talking about how people pull the exact kind of shit you're doing? Are you trying to justify yourself or something? No one cares.
>You clearly hold games as having little value, if any
The games I play hold alot of value. IT's just that the devs don't charge me out the ass for things that should be free, like balance updates, or even DLC. Most of my games get free DLC, that comes to me at no cost. And mind you, the devs that do it have almost no money to their name compared to big name publishers.
So I ask you again: why should I settle for less when the competition gives me more? What can Nintendo and Sony offer me that gives me more than what I get from PC games like these?
You're missing the point those. The damage that cheapen games too much have is that they devalue the quality of them, and the limit the labor budget or cost of them.
Think of Samsung and the Tv market. Samsung is known for making cheap as possible thanks to subsize government. Because they have setted the standards for those prices, and it doesn't matter how good quality for the tv is because of the price is too high.
>This hasn't really affected the games I enjoy, many of which are singleplayer experiences.
It has. F2P pressures more people to make pricing models on F2P shit. It has forced a lot of sub based mmos to becomes F2P MMOs. The Mobile audience is the future, try video games like 2$ app we get nothing more then 2$ app.
>The damage that cheapen games too much have is that they devalue the quality of them, and the limit the labor budget or cost of them.
I don't see the problem with this. Games don't need to be valued that high, and the dangerous "F2P monster" that you talk about hasn't affected any of my favorite games. If you can match the cost of your competition, then you'll make money. If you can't, then oh well. Welcome to the free market.
>Think of Samsung and the Tv market. Samsung is known for making cheap as possible thanks to subsize government
Don't see the problem here. Other companies who can't compete won't really make it. I don't see the issue. If they can't offer something that Samsung can't also offer, you know to make the deal interesting, then why is Samsung the bad group here? Besides, the most I've payed for an HD flatscreen TV was about 250 bucks. Whether or not I got ripped off, it beat the expensive 3000 dollar LED filled heap of scrap they initially tried pawning off on me. The guys selling the latter thus lost my sale because they couldn't compete. I win either way.
>It has. F2P pressures more people to make pricing models on F2P shit.
Then how come several indie devs on PC can afford to release free DLC in singleplayer games, where the F2P market doesn't even apply? Oh, that's right. They're not spending ludicrous amounts of green on fancy high def graphics or cutscenes.
Gee, it's almost as if they're smart with their business decisions.
>I don't see the problem with this. Games don't need to be valued that high.
Sure, but I don't want Video games to be 2$ app because it means we won't get quality games out of them.
> the dangerous "F2P monster" that you talk about hasn't affected any of my favorite games.
Nobody cares if you're unaffected, it's about if the F2P effects the entire video game industry market. It has, and proven to do so.
>Don't see the problem here. Other companies who can't compete won't really make it. I don't see the issue. If they can't offer something that Samsung can't also offer, you know to make the deal interesting, then why is Samsung the bad group here?
The point was that Samsung makes cheap and low quality hardware causes customers to no longer desire high quality technology. Nobody is saying that they should buy 3000 dollar shit, but it ultimately teaching customers not buy anything of quality has negative effects on tv market.
>Then how come several indie devs on PC can afford to release free DLC in singleplayer games
You realize those Indie Devs can't go into the mobile market especially because it's trained not to buy games on likes in the PC game.
That's the damage of F2P based market can do. We don't want a F2P dominate market.
>where the F2P market doesn't even apply? Oh, that's right.
What makes you think it doesn't. You haven't notice that F2P is changing the landscape for the entire PC market?
The point is that F2P can't too dominate so it doesn't lower value of middle market games.
>Oh, that's right. They're not spending ludicrous amounts of green on fancy high def graphics or cutscenes.
Do you think Banner Saga executives were spending that much money on cutscenes or some shit like that? Really?
The problem is a long term one because of the current practices of these company we are going have a whole generation cheap price gouging games be the norm and games we like are less likely to be made.it will be a dark age of gaming
Could you have made those box titles any smaller?
Holy crap, this is bad.
No wonder the gaming industry is fucked if this is the average consumer.
RIP in Peace
Not really, no one expects a full big game on a mobile platform, they are two separate markets and two separate design of games.
If you made a mobile-esque game for any platform without ever releasing some $1 mobile version and tried to sell it for full price, no one would fucking buy it.
>mfw Americans have spent 85 million dollars on micro transactions in that Kim Kardashian App
The world needs to end.
Also note that this motherfucker puts Pikmin 3, 3D World, DKCtf and Link Between Worlds in "Average," on the same tier as Puppeteer and fucking Harmoknight, all below Tearaway and R&C: Into the Nexus which are, while not bad, certainly not better than 3D World or P3 by any metric. I'd still put Into the Nexus at 7/10, anyway.
That is to say, yes, Game & Wario is bad, but it's really not that bad, and you shouldn't be judging its quality based on that stupid fucking tier list.
This asshole always walks into threads and posts this stupid fucking list, every damn time. And he always, ALWAYS gets replies because of how batshit retarded it is.
>A friendly reminder that Iwata is right, and free to play is going to devalue video games more then Steam sales will.
Im pretty sure devs devalued their own games enough. The console market is dying because of this. People can buy a $400 console with no games, and the games they end up getting are yearly copy-pastes
As for mobile games, mobile devs need to rethink the expected costs of mobile games. Theyre either free with ads or microtransactions, or about a dollar. $5 isnt a lot for a game at all but when compared against the bunches of games that are a dollar or free, its discouraging.
They should just stick to PC. Word of mouth for smaller studios is much more effective when dealing with PC gamers. Console owners just get what their friends getting. Theyre hesitant to try anything new. Phone gamers are similar.
No one expects a full big game on the mobile platform because they are trained to believe that doesn't exist or has a smart market over there. The market founded on the concept of F2P and free shit.
That's the problem because it means you can't charge upfront at all.
I like F2P because its the biggest check and balance for gaming. If your game got overlooked in favor of a free game, it wasnt just because it was free. You as a developer have serious homework to do.
Game studios that used to be small garage studios in the 90s have become big bloated corporations that cant even sustain themselves. Then prices were low and quality was high. Now its the reverse.
I like that people are more apprehensive about buying games, because it forces devs to put a genuine effort, and not just slog along till their next publisher carries their weight.
Becoming a successful game developer should be a gamble. Because games are a luxury and nonessential. A few years back I shouldnt have seen people with doctorates flipping burgers while the games industry thrived. Thats unjust.
Man I work at a classy restaurant and to get a nice salad WITH chicken or shrimp will cost you 17 bucks max. Hell on a ski hill I've gotten lunch from one of those supposedly expensive lounge and bars for 15 bucks. Dunno why I cared so much to contradict you but there it is.
Also freemium a shit, pay2win creates a disparity within the game
How does it feel being an Amerifat?
Tablets are designed for long term use, food and beverages can usually be expected to reach a certain quality but buying a game means that you are getting something that's only used in your spare time that could end up being shit
Try having a good lunch with friends that's actually worth the price.
Barring full blown 6 month reservation black tie places which none of us have gone to, food quality rarely scales much with price. Some of the best meals I've had were just from random restaurants who had better shit than other random restaurants.
I order a meal I know what I'm getting on a continuum, rarely will it be inedible. I buy a drink, the same. I buy a cheap game and I'm rolling lottery odds of 1 in a few hundred thousand that it's going to be playable and one in millions that it's worth completing if it bothers to have an ending AND one in a billion or more with f2p that I can beat it at all without dropping money.
F2p makes McDonald's look like a great meal investment. You know that everything on the menu is a 4/10 and that guarantee means something. Show me that kind of consistency in early access, KS, f2p, or indie games.
Hes right. Its already happening, we didnt listen.
For a company that most people dismiss as dinosaurs, Nintendo is the only company whos navigating the troubles that hit the industry for the past 10 years without much issue' while several others fold or post massive losses.
People now will chase the f2p golden goose just like they did way back when wow went big. They're going to fail again,and not just because they lack the quality, but because consumers dont have the time to play this avalanche of f2p games. Race to the bottom.
If you've been to japan, you should know everything there is ridiculously expensive compared to the US.
The people there loves coffee for some reason and a random cup cost roughly 3-4 bucks there. Their noodles are around 13 dollars and if you add drinks to go with it, it can easily hit around 17-20 bucks.
Except free to play and Steam sales have opened the market up to many more people who wouldn't be able to afford $60 games. Companies also make a ton more money when being shrewd with their pricing (look at the number of indie devs who have praised Valve for their sales)
Nintendo is nothing but a lumbering dinosaur that wishes it was still 1985.
>all these people saying a crash is coming
as much as i would enjoy a restart to get the jewish practices out it will never crash again. Not when games can make hundreds of millions just for one title alone. Though there will most likely be a quality dip soon, even worse than there is right now.
No definitive crash but a number of bubbles have burst. Wii? Pop. Mid-Tier Devs/Game? Poof. Facebook? Popped. Handhelds? Massively Deflating. Mobile Gaming? Suffering. PC? Several things are starting to let the air out of it. Kickstarter? Overdue.
It's not just one big boom, it's tons of smaller ones which lead up to the end / drastic changes.
Food is a necessity, and for the most part when you're buying food you know what to expect, there are times when you can even try a free sample. It's also rare for food to be completely inedible if it's sold at a major restaurant or place, and if it is you can get a refund. Even if it's not your favorite the least it will do is fill you up.
Can't say the same for vidya, because there's so much misleading marketing that isn't representative of the final product that you have no idea who to trust. When it comes to vidya we have publishers selling completely broken products or vidya that is nothing like it is advertised.