Why do people on here try to claim that ASSFAGGOTS are the height of skill in video games? I mean sure they require game knowledge and teamwork but that is nothing compared to the amount of skill required in any arena shooter. I don't see how anybody can seriously debate this after watching and comparing the following two videos.
>quakecon grand finals
>ti4 grand finals
Fuck Arena Shooters. Every time a developer tries to go back to "first person shooter roots," they go back to FUCKING ARENA SHOOTERS, repetitive shit that has no level design and is just a load of shit aside from occasional boss battles.
Multiplayer is awesome in them though.
None of those are fucking arena shooters (except for Serious Sam), shitlord. Painkiller is an arena shooter. The Shadow Warrior remake is an arena shooter. Doom is a real fucking fps, with actual thought in the level design.
>Quake takes place in arenas
Not the singleplayer, summer.
That's funny since the same maps from the single-player (e.g. E1M2) are played competitively and QuakeWorld is one of the definitive arena shooters with Q3A and UT99. Stop pretending to know what you are talking about.
And just fucking how is a shooter that doesn't take place in an arena an arena shooter? How do these words fucking work together?
>Painkiller and Doom are the same type of game
No, anon, you are the summer.
>doesn't know what an arena shooter is
>how is a shooter that doesn't take place in an arena an arena shooter?
Then what the fuck is a first person shooter? Why add a name to a genre that already has a name when said genre is split? A first person shooter is a game like Doom or Quake. An Arena Shooter is a first person shooter that takes place in arenas. How the fuck did the two fucking merge?
This isn't even funny or clever, you could that say Dota is just clicking on creeps. Of course aiming at fast enemies in a game with three dimensions actually requires skill to do so, and is nothing like aiming on a 2D web page.
People love to shitpost MOBAs on /v/ because they're popular and F2P, but really I fail to see any arguments on here that amount to anything more than "I don't like the game and it's different from the games I like so it's shit." Seriously the arguments I see on here can be replicated and bounced back to things like fighting games and arena shooters with ease. Just look at what OP said about how knowledge and teamwork are nothing compared to arena shooter skill. That's literally a meaningless statement and could just be inversed.
When it comes down to it. The Internationals alone has a fucking stadium of people watching it and has the biggest prize pool in competitive gaming. It takes all of Evo, which is composed of many different games, just to rival the annual tournament of a single game. It's understandable that a lot of people try out Dota and LoL, but the number of active players is insanely high and while you can probably run LoL on just about anything these days, Dota 2 requires at least basic specs so it's not like all those players are just random people playing in their school libraries.
So yeah for all the random arguments people throw out, the fact of the matter is that people have been playing Dota competitively for years and it enjoys a competitive scene that's only growing. If that's not the product of a good competitive game then I'm not sure what is.
>A first person shooter is a game like Doom or Quake. An Arena Shooter is a first person shooter that takes place in arenas.
These threads are always great for weeding out the redditors.
That's because skill shots for the most part are not a major element in Dota 2. Should we critique Arena Shooters for lacking the ability to buy wards or for lacking random shit that's in a MOBA? No. Part of the strategy and skill in chess is not how perfectly you can place a piece in the middle of a square.
Then what the fuck happened to FPS? There's obviously different types of FPS. Doom and Quake have corridor based level design with keys and secrets, while games like Painkiller and Serious Sam are based on killing all the enemies to open the door and move on, with ARENA based level design.
These two are not the same.
>farming creeps isn't a major element of Dota 2
>Should we critique Arena Shooters for lacking the ability to buy wards or for lacking random shit that's in a MOBA?
No because this shit requires zero skill and adds nothing to the game.
I've never even been to Reddit. Is this really the only argument people can spout when their baseless statements are challenged in regards to MOBA? As for company funded tournaments, do you even know what determines if a game reaches EVO? Anything can go to EVO so long as there's enough money involved.
That's why games most people recognize as bad fighting games, such as Injustice, have made it two years in a row or even something like Killer Instinct. It's also why games like Melee, which is suddenly hip to like again, have gotten a random surge in popularity.
Meanwhile games people recognize as being extremely complex and have high skill ceilings, like Virtua Fighter, have little to no representation. And it's really not about the lack of players. If they announced the games based on merit, people good at them would show up. It's all about the money and stream money. It's no surprise that the top game at Evo is UMvC3, a game not worthy of being the top of anything.
Both arena shooters and MOBA have enthusiasts willing to argue for hours about what makes their game of choice deeper than the other, but the fact is that when it comes to an actual competitive scene of people actively exploring the game on a professional level, MOBAs destroy first person shooters of all kinds.
>Then what the fuck happened to FPS? There's obviously different types of FPS.
That's what he said, yes, it is a sub-genre.
>mfw this retard
Based on doesn't fucking mean identical. They're different games. If you'd ever have fucking played them, then you'd know that.
>didn't actually read
don't worry, I won't tell on you
Because the skill cap for last-hitting is incredibly low? The fact that aiming and moving in Quake has an infinite skill ceiling doesn't change the fact that these games involve a lot of strategy which is usually what decides the outcome.
>MOBAs destroy FPS of all kinds
Maybe for another year or two until gurl gaymers get tired of streaming their sad attempts at playing. It's a fad genre. Arena FPS have been around and are still heavily played, just not with the mainstream vigor that MOBAs are seeing right now.
Plus people love arguing about LoL vs Dota2 so theres that
Arena shooters have been around and are still played just like every other game and game genre have been around and are still played, but that doesn't really mean anything. Who the fuck even cares about arena shooters in 2014? To say MOBAs are a fad and then to act like arena shooters are timeless is extremely laughable. It doesn't help that even years ago when Dota was just a mod it had a competitive scene in the same light as things like arena shooters. While it only grew, arena shooters slowly reached graveyard status.
Arena shooters are FPS games with an emphasis on fast movement, dodging, lots of weapons (both hitscan and projectiles), lots of enemies in SP, DM-style MP, etc. Hence most old-school shooters fit this description. Level design is dependent on the game but does not decide the genre.
If you say so chief. When Jessica Nigri stops cosplaying as LoL characters and people are tired of grinding and the same LoL vs Dota2 bs, it's popularity will sharply decrease.
Don't you mean floor?
They are fun to play, but as soon as you try it online, there will be always someone with really high skill that will kill you after just respawing.
Is really rare when you finally face people with a skill close to yours
Well, that's fucking stupid. The games are almost entirely different depending on the level design.
I'm saying shooters with primarily hitscan is inferior to Tribes for instance. (not Ascend)
>worse CTF than quake
>implying twitching around hitscanning everything is better than requiring intense teamwork and base management with generators, turrets, deployables and actually aiming projectiles ahead while skiing at bullet speeds
>post shit tier bait image
>someone responses? Post another shit tier bait image
Why are you doing this
How can you be so utterly boring
Just lift some things or play some vidya for fuck's sake
Pros: Great fucking game
Cons: The fans on /v/ are insufferable
I think the point is that the original image is bullshit because anyone can make a game sound difficult by spouting a bunch of it's mechanics in a verbose way, and inversely you can make any game sound like casual babby shit by oversimplifying it's mechanics and making sweeping generalizations, without actually making any legitimate argument against it.
Basically arenafags don't know anything mechanically about ASSFAGGOTS, and thus any skill it may or even may not take to play them, but still want to shit on it because "no gorillion dollar prize for muh quake".
Well yes, these threads are nothing but shitty bait and anyone with a shred of intelligence is going to notice that
It's still annoying because the guy that made that image is so proud of it that he makes thread with it like every few hours and posts it in every aRTS thread he can find
>Why do people on here try to claim that ASSFAGGOTS are the height of skill in video games
No one claims this
I used arts before Valve thought about making an arts
It's a shame other companies caved in and started using MOBA so that the dumb unwashed masses knew what they were talking about
ASSFAGGOTS is convoluted as fuck for the sake of making a funny joke and it's not even particularly exact for including that many fucking letters
>having an infinite skill ceiling for mechanical execution is a bad thing because it can be exploited by cheaters
You're right anon, better keep playing your zero-skill MOBA games to be safe.
>Mature and polite community
At least Chess programs involve math. An aimbot does what? Move crosshair to player. Shoot player. Wow so much skill. And the funniest part? When you arenafags shitters pretend like your games involve anything else but mechanical aim. B-but m-muh strategy! Muh item spawn timings! I-i need to keep track of one other player!
Oh wow. I heard EG had a ton of member outside of the FGC but I've never seen any of them.
I heard there's a trick with Wolverine in UMvC3 involving divekick and X-Factor that all EG members are apparently able to do. Even the ones that don't play Mahvel. Got coined the "EG Special" because everything in the FGC is the X Special
I don't think anyone claims ASSFAGGOTS are higher skill than fighters or most fps's
That being said I like both dota and unreal/quake
The two genres can coexist
This whole thread is like comparing how futbol is better than basketball
It's fucking preference, quit being a cunt
>faster means it's better
MOBAS like LoL are slower than SC2, meaning that you can think about every move more, which makes it more like Chess in a way.
SC2 is for autists who just want to mash on their keyboard for 20 minutes straight while abusing the next broken proxy build.
I don't think so simply because most of those posts were ambiguous. They mostly said competitive video games were stupid not MOBAs or RTSs are stupid. But your theory is a definite possibility because mobas are slow and dull while quake is fast.
>there are people on /v/ right now who support ASSFAGGOTS
Fucking eat shit, you fucking retarded. While Valve do make an gorillion dollar championship once a year, it doesn't fund all of them. The scene is alive by itself, not because of The International.
No you are a fucking idiot
It's not about the game, it's about some retarded valvedrone pretending that DotA 2 would still be a big e-sport if it wasn't for Valve throwing money at it and pandering to casuals
As a veteran Quake 3 tournament player and winner, this shit pains me. Playing that game for close to 10 years gave me the most unreal reflexes I could ever have imagined. Especially since all I used was the rail gun.
Your point? I don't get it, we all know that DotA 2 got lot of money. But it is simple incorrect to say Valve fund them all. Valve fund (and not even completely since last year) a once a year championship.
But that's just wrong. There are thousands of teams out there. And only those 14 which go to TI see any real money. People don't play DotA only for TI. It's not viable to most of them.
Learn the movement
>how to strafe jump and circle jump and rocket jump
Learn the weapons
>how to aim well with the main three weapons (rocket launcher, lightning gun, rail gun) and when to use them, also how to dodge against them
Learn the maps
>what positions are good etc
I recommend playing CA at first so you can get a feel for the aim and movement, then move onto the more complex modes
>Farming creeps is a major element in dota.
But that's fucking wrong. Compared to all the other shit in dota, creeps are about 5% of the content.
That's like saying grapping red is the basic idea of quake
alright thanks you guys, this seems like it'll be a fun thing to get into