>>64958876 While I do agree that the South was in the right, you have to admit that they did some pretty shitty things to. Bloody Bill, Andersonville (although that was due to a refusal of prisoner exchange), Fort Pillow. I guess war does blur the lines of morality.
>>64959040 >Sherman's March to the Sea should have earned him a place on our currency
Amen. Normies always bring up Patton, or MacArthur when it comes to our greatest military commanders. I've always admired Sherman as a commander, ever since I first read about his campaigns in middle school.
>>64959040 >Every fucking southern should have been hanged for treason. this is wrong
the north were the traitors to the republic. the civil war was about upholding the republic which meant preserving state's rights. the south had a right to war since the federal government sought to take away their rights to govern themselves. the north winning eventually led to the massive federal government and bureaucratic nightmare we have today. the north winning meant the republic was destroyed
>>64959233 >be the South >be crying about muh trampled rights while the backbone of your entire economy is the slave trade >be afraid of industrialization phasing you out completely >rebel >cry victim when resoundingly beaten
Before you go accusing me of a southerner, I'm not, but I'm really tired of the aspie styled prejudice of northerners about the war.
Northerners really are brainwashed about the war and still reflect the brutal ignorant hatred and disregard of southerners that was partially the motivation of southerners to rebel to begin with.
>le they enslaved niggers how horrible >ignores the race riots all over the north as slaves began to migrate north >ignores the fact that NYC was in utter rebellion against Lincoln and the war machine and being forced to integrate with blacks and had to be shelled to regain order
The whole war was pretty grey and anyone scholar of the war finds it hard to see any real good or bad guy. Both were guilty of very negative actions. I just wish we could have one discussion about the war where people aren't screaming for the heads of people and just see it for what it was.
>>64959383 Do you think if Davis had kept Johnson as commander in the West the war could've turned in the South's favour? I mean. Lincoln was reelected essentially because of Sherman's march to the sea. Johnson rather than risk an offensive, probably would've focused on fortifying Atlanta and holding back Sherman.
>be the North >have slave states >profit off of slavery >import slaves >attack your "brothers" because they legally leave >start losing the war hardcore >losing public support >issue emancipation >lel, jk, we moral rights crusade now! >you aren't an evil slave state are you? :^) >oh we still have slave states? hehe nevermind
>be the North >profiteer massively on slave-trade >once it isn't profitable any more, suddenly decide that it's a "moral outrage" that must be expunged >South disagrees because their circumstances are different >Try to force them to any way so they can't compete with you economically and you remain dominant >They fight back
>b-b-but the North was bad too >t-they had slaves too >they did mean things in war like kill people and burn stuff >y-you Northerners are all brainwashed aspies >pretending you are the only one who knows Emancipation was a desperation play made by Lincoln >war is bad >war isn't cut and dry black and white
>>64959554 This movie is way better than any social justice bullshit. >Eastwood is a continuing rebel confederate soldier >union soldiers pillage his home, kill his wife and kid >teams with Indians who felt the union continously pushes into their territory while the south only wants separation >two hours of Eastwood killing confederate soldiers.
Who gives a fuck about this rift raft they're playing now a days.
They didn't have the necessary manpower, money, or industry to properly outfit their armies. I mean, they barely had time to get set up as a country. The main thing was dye, which was really expensive - so they worse grey, undyed uniforms. Many also wore butternut colors.
In the beginning of the war many were dressed in blue too, which led to lots of friendly fire incidents and such. At First Manassas, one Union regiment got fucked up because they held their fire seeing blue in front of them and then got raped at close range.
>>64959489 >>64959542 >>64959548 and this is why the usa will fail. the problem is right in front of your face and for whatever reason you don't want to acknowledge it. maybe it's because you're scared, i don't know. our politicians are in the pocket of internationals, including the banks. why do you think all businesses are moving over to china and other emerging economies? the usa is a sinking ship because people like YOU refuse to admit something is terribly fucking wrong in this country. what do you get out of your loyalty to a government that doesn't give a shit about its people? do you think hating the government means you hate the usa? the founding fathers laugh at you fucking morons. blind loyalty and love of the government is something they would vehemently protest
Not really. They had no competent generals until Sherman and Grant came along right as the confederacy was knocking on Washingtons door. The south had greater men, greater leaders, greater dignity and valor. The north were a bunch of raiders lead by drunkards who were failures at everything in life.
The end result is not the only thing that matters.
>>64959818 stop being such an edgy teenager, what is this your first day on the internet? think your the only one who knows what you think you know? you aren't.
im ironically supporting my government and my country in a civil war shitposting thread on a mongolian noodle house messaging forum. you are unironically shitposting a bunch of intro to conspiracy 101 crap that comes as a surprise to no one over the age of 21 and is actually common knowledge by a lot of people. The problem is most people just don't even talk about it, let alone acknowledge it in anyway. There's nothing we can do about it, it's already too late, the only thing w can do is sit back, relax and enjoy our first class, front row seats to the show.
They also had similar issues with getting weapons and equipment. Many soldiers had old smoothbore muskets, most eventually got Enfield rifled muskets, some had Lorenz rifled muskets, some had Springfield rifled muskets, some used shotguns - it created a logistical nightmare because they all used different ammunition.
No one is "claiming victory," we're just pointing out that the Confederates were far better in combat than the Union but lost due to Union cheese. Just like Germany losing to the Soviets in WWII. Congrats, you are the Soviets. Enjoy your victory.
>>64958876 The confederacy seems evil at the first glance ,but really it was like most wars, the Union was fighting to preserve America as one nation, the Confederacy was fighting for economic and political independence
I don't think anyone should be demonized, it happened, war is shitty both side had heroes and great battles.
>America dropped bombs on Japan twice >America eradicated the Native Americans and stole their land >America destroyed the old secular governments in iran and other middle eastern countries with radical islamic ones >America tanked South American economy to stop it's rival and even supported regime changes by supporting radicals to stop these countries.
>Somehow the south was considered evil for using slaves the North brought along in the first place.
I'm actually lost here, how was the American South evil again for wanting to separate from that shit hole of a country? If the south knew how evil America was why didn't the world support them in their cause?
Useless platitudes. Once again you fail to see the difference between your example and the Civil War. The US did not consider Japan to be its brothers. The US did, ostensibly, consider the South to be its brothers. You wouldn't nuke your so-called brother.
Your dumbass actually thinks that if nukes existed, the Union should have nuked every Southern city and killed everyone because
>lel it's a war people die you have to win
You can't fucking reunite a country and at the same time want to kill every single person in it.
>>64959953 I think so, basically Stonewall survives his amputation, but due to taking so long to recover he couldn't help out at Gettysburg so the South is still in a bad state. Bragg resigns and Davis has to decide who takes over, not really happy with Beauregard or Johnson being his only options. Benjamin convinces him to pick Stonewall and he agrees. Jackson is sent West and finds the army to be in a shitty state with Cleburne and Forrest being the only generals to show promise. There's also a story within a story about two brothers but it doesn't take much away from the main story. Honestly give it a look, the characters are very interesting.
>>64959907 >I'm just starting to learn that things aren't what I thought they were >all the stuff in the history books is a lie guys! >everything i was taught in school was wrong guys! >history was written by the winners!
>I was actually leaning more towards "you're pointing out fucking obvious shit that most people who are at least a bit informed already know at this point"
But it's apparently not "obvious".
There are ACTUAL people, both ITT and in real-life, that honestly believe the Civil War was fought exclusively over Slavery, the North was a progressive utopia of racial harmony and that Southerners literally boarded boats to Africa, caught niggers with nets and then shipped them to America for rape and forced-labor.
I think the real question is, when will we get a movie about Forrest? >His armed escort was made up of his own slaves promising them freedom. >Used a Union soldier as a human meat shield. >Slapped Sherman around constantly. >Got shot 9 times but still survived. >Uneducated but still one of the best in the West.
>>64960200 From what I remember from my American History class, emancipation was definitely set up as a winning the public ploy.
>Southerners literally boarded boats to Africa
it wasn't Northerners either. Africans were enslaved by their own people, sometimes rival tribes, sometimes their own, and sold by tribal chieftains who sold them to Jewish merchant ship owners who brought them over to markets all up and down the East coast for sale to plantation owners.
He did. Definitely a weird guy but based as fuck. His Valley campaign was amazing.
The part about his life pre-war when he was at the Florida outpost was really interesting, accusing that guy of cheating on his wife and stuff. Really seemed like he actually should have been court martialed by somehow made it through alright.
>>64959383 I think the important fact to remember about Sherman is that he improved, unlike many other Generals. No, he wasn't brilliant at the beginning, but he learned from his mistakes. He was a better strategist then anything else, and other commanders under him were better fighting or logistically inclined generals. For example Thomas, one of the least remembered yet excellent Generals of the war.
True. But Sherman also "improved" as the South's fighting power declined.
You are right about Thomas though. Severely underrated and always in the shadow because Lincoln and the Grant/Sherman buttbuddy political group didn't like him. He got the McClellan treatment and was actually about to be relieved of his command at Nashville before his crushing victory.
The Thomas/McClellan parallels are very interesting. inb4 >McClellan traitor >McClellan coward >McClellan scared >McClellan thought he was facing millions
All false bullcrap that comes from a select few authors and generated a false history meme.
>>64960515 the north wanted to end slavery peacefully but confedeniggers would rather have died than give up their slaves. read up on harriet beacher stowe and john c calhoun which pretty much represented north/south sentiment, respectively
>>64960398 What about Cleburne? Irish Confederate who rose through the ranks so much so, he got the nickname "Stonewall of the West." Not too mention he proposed arming the slaves to fight for their freedom. Man was practical and based as fuck.
>>64960524 I love how the Civil War produced so many interesting figures to learn about. Thanks, I'll check it out.
>>64960714 I'm Canadian but have been there enough to know that only like 15% of the US is a shithole. The rest is pretty nice actually, and people are friendly, especially in the South where a gay man spent an hour hitting on me.
"Sherman's dashing Yankee boys will never reach the coast!" So the saucy rebels said and 'twas a handsome boast Had they not forgot, alas! to reckon with the Host While we were marching through Georgia.
So we made a thoroughfare for freedom and her train, Sixty miles in latitude, three hundred to the main; Treason fled before us, for resistance was in vain While we were marching through Georgia.
>>64960991 >blacks enslaved their own and sold them to Jewish shipmasters and merchants who carried them across the Atlantic to port and sold them to the rich white "elite" of the North and South, the upper echelon higher tier of society >my dads people came over from Ireland and Italy in the 1910s >where treated about as bad as blacks where at one point, because America is for Americans and fuck everyone else >never owned slaves >were hard working blue collar people who held down multiple jobs to keep their bills paid and kids fed >i'm supposed to feel guilty about slavery
>>64961169 Leftism isn't meant to make sense, it's all about portraying the world as a struggle between oppressors and oppressed regardless of the context. This also implies ignoring how human interaction actually works, alongside with basic economics and psychology.
Sometimes at night I lie awake. Just can't sleep. I'm thinking of our 2nd War of Independence and I just can't cope with the fact that we lost.
Makes me think about that tv show "Man in High Castle" who depicts a world where the wrong side won WW2. Let me tell you I feel the same about our world. That's right. The one we live in. It's not right that the Confederacy surrendered. We were so close to DC, we had the better generals (hell, the north hardly had any "generals" at all!) and the legal right to secede from the Union. Our world is false and not as it should be.
>>64961327 if only people could realize that the true oppressors are using that ideology to split and pit the oppressed against each other in a false oppressor and oppressed scenario, then we could effect some real changes, for the true greater good. But people are stupid and easily swayed by propaganda and disinformation and all of a sudden its the 99% "white middle class" thats responsible for all the worlds problems when all that class shit is just a Marxist creation and the 1% "white" ruling class is really to blame.
Just because the Irish are now "white", doesn't mean there wasn't a time when an irishman couldn't get a fuckin' job. That's not even what I said anyway, I said for a time Irish and Italian immigrants were faced with similar persecution to newly freed blacks. There were irrational lynchings, all sorts of fear mongering that lead to senseless deaths of innocent men.
>born in Buttfuck, USSR >family has long tradition of being serfs >had no toys at all as a kid >was starving at times >food at kindergarten was full of ants and worms >parents decide to emigrate to the USA when I'm 7 >mfw some rich hippie cunt with an iphone told me I need to check my straight white privilege
>>64961530 The whole Occupy Wall Street and the lingo it generated reeks of Marxism. My parents grew up in Eastern Europe under communism and they were constantly bombarded by "talks" [more like monologues] of issues such as protecting the "least developed countries". Ironically for a movement that wanted to do away with material possessions, communism really liked to talk about how poverty is the worst thing that can happen to a man.
Nowadays it's the oppression based on race, which is way more damaging to the collective conscience. While economic strife could be beaten, race is something you can't get rid of. So labeling racial issues as the biggest threat to humanity you immediately antagonize different groups of people for the rest of their existence. If I go now in USA I will have leftist idiots shouting at me about my "white privilege" despite the fact that I'd be broke [fucking hell plane tickets can be expensive!] and I'd have no connection to the history of the country [so no plantation owner as a sugar daddy].
Hell, just look at this year's Oscars and how people harp about "racism" as the reason some movies/actors were snubbed. They simply ignore the fact that the Oscars are a joke and that they snubbed so many worthy candidates for god knows what reason, but the moment a black actor isn't nominated it's clearly RACISM. Fuck this.
>>64961817 Except the CSA's objectives were much more limited than the USA's, they just wanted Independence. If they had taken DC to which they were very very close, then I'm sure the USA would have caved in.
>>64962134 Hence its greatest irony. It's utterly obsessed with what others have in their belongings all while trumpeting a future where said belongings don't exist. It's literally like bombing for peace.
>muh proud history >muh government conspiracy to keep me and my families impoverished >responsibility for my actions? LMAO good one >they dindu nuffin they got provoked >if we don't get our way then our guns are drawn !! >it's how we was raised >we aint happy with the laws so we gonna rise up instead of participating in the process! >them laws are corrupt and we don't need to follow them they just trying I keep us down cuz they scared cuz we strong !! >don't talk about our "culture"! we're proud we just don't have the same opportunities as them!
Is this a nigger or a rebel? Is there any fundamental difference?
>calls anon tinfoiler in spite of his articulate response >believes the North had a moral high ground freeing slaves despite their own wage slaves (Uption Sinclair The Jungle-tier only worse) >forgets that Lincoln didn't free the slaves until 2 years into the war >guess he just forgot about niggers for the first 2 years
Plebs and niggers tend to have a shoddy memory and the inability to properly understand regular english. Sorry that you've had to realize this >you pleb nigger
>>64960119 Other countries were going to start supporting the South, that's why Lincoln decided to free the slaves. Other countries didn't want to side with a country that was fighting "to keep" slavery.
>>64958452 Lots of civil war strategy games and even a mod for Empire:Total War. >>64958259 Well the Patriot was just typical Hollywood bullshit that had a basis in fantasy. So i guess this is the same.
>>64962496 It's impossibly to give everyone as much stuff as the rest of society. The whole point of "being rich" is that you have more than other people, from this you draw the main advantage of being rich. The moment you put everyone at the same level is the moment where you make everybody as poor.
Even worse is the fact that you basically ignore any basic concept of individuality. People like to own nice things, but each person wants something different and in different quantity. And by making so that the state is the provider and not each person's individual skill you make so everyone becomes dependent on the state.
Right now I live in Geneva, and my God there are so many communist sympathizers it boggles the mind. And I'm talking about actual communists, hammer and sickle, singing the Comintern anthem and all that jazz. You would think that people born into one of the most prosperous country on the planet would be less gullible to this feel-good trap that is Marxism.
>>64958259 >By the mid-1870s, Knight had separated from his wife, Serena, and had married Rachel, a former slave of his grandfather. During the same period, Knight's son, Mat, married Rachel's daughter, Fannie, and Knight's daughter, Molly, married Rachel's son, Jeff.
HAHAH holy shit.
It truly is The patriot: Forced Interracial Cuck edition.
>>64962755 Hierarchies have to exist. People need to feel different but also feel like they're part of a group.
I don't know. I'm American so I'm supposed to believe in equality and all of that, but I just can't. Not that laws shouldn't be equal but they aren't now anyhow since anyhow good lawyer can save you from murder.
>>64963091 Equality of opportunity is achievable by setting the same standards to everyone. But at the same time you have to be fully aware that for example men and women are different, therefore it's nigh-on-impossible for a woman to pass the physical tests with the same ability as a man, for example.
The problem is that the left is obsessed with equality of outcome that totally ignores what I mentioned above and promotes flippy-floppy standards alongside discrimination [dressed as "positive" discrimination].
Hierarchies are a perfectly human way of functioning as a society, after all that's how we are wired to function. Our society works just like primates function, and we will never be able to function like a bee or an ant colony [even if that's super efficient]. There will always be people who are more capable or less capable, so it's perfectly fine to give them access to things according to this as long as it's fair and isn't abused.
>>64958259 I love how people still idolize the Confederates and even put up the Confederate flag everywhere. They lost. They're losers and unAmerican. America rebelled against the British and won. The South fought against America and lost. They are losers. Get over it and move on already. And it was definitely about slavery, stop kidding yourself. It was about the States right to keep slaves. That is all.
>>64958484 Well unsurprisingly they decided to focus on the one particular group of Southerners which was pro-Union. There will be scenes of main characters realizing that their countrymen are evil racists.
>>64964220 You've just claimed anyone who criticizes folk other than white people have their careers ruined. It's not exactly accurate is it? Fucking Fox would be shut down if that was the case, you cretinous shitbag.
>>64963958 Whether or not the north and Lincoln went into the war with the goal to end slavery at the very beginning doesn't matter. What matters is that the south started the war to preserve slavery, and that is indisputable. For them it had everything to do with slavery.
>>64965054 He's "objectively" a war criminal? Please stop using words that you do not understand. Sherman was never tried nor convicted for any alleged misconduct during the rebel pacification; either in civilian or military courts.
Talk shit get hit, hayseed. Your great-great-grandpappies shouldn't have rebelled if they weren't prepared for the consequences.
>>64961701 >prove racism to white middle class sub adults who don't even have anyone black or any color for that matter to tell them how crazy it is to not be white It's fucked up it gets out of proportion in the media but racism still exists.
>>64962285 >half black half white >grow up being a nerd >go to family christmas party >topic goes to police >every one of my black male relatives has at the very least one cop harassment story >these are upstanding black men with college degrees and good jobs who don't commit crimes RACISM DOESN'T EXIST GUISE! I never got hassled or anything but I don't look like the average black man. It's not easy to see racism when you're not being subjected to it.
Let's be honest here, because there were several union units which fought valiantly till the last man.
The Irish brigade (Specificaly the "fighting" 69th regiment) suffered 60% casualties at Antietam, reinforced, was virtually destroyed at fredericksburg (over 90% casualties), was reformed with new blood and was destroyed in it's entirety holding the wheatfield at Gettysburg.
>>64960515 To be fair the south had an agricultural and resource based economy and the North wanted slavery stopped without offering viable alternatives to the south. The South saw the end of slavery as economic death
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