Can we stop acting like Kratz's deranged spouting of "further" evidence to whatever media source will listen and promise not to talk about his sexual harassment, drug use or psychological disorder is anything more than butthurt, glory-seeking speculative bullshit?
>>64897350 I can't remember how long it was up, but they essentially picked some random brown dude and focused all their efforts on tracking him down, to the point that they were certain they were onto the actual bomber.
I was lurking the previous thread and saw this fucker arguing with someone about reasonable doubt. I really hope you're fucking trolling. Do you not u detest and that to give a guilty verdict you have to agree with the prosecutions narrative (that she was killed in the garage/trailer) but you state that you don't agree with that part of the prosecution but would still vote guilty? Are you fucking retarded? That's reasonable doubt. That's literally how it works. If you don't agree with their narrative about how and where he killed her you can't give a guilty verdict. Again I hope you were trolling. If not please never serve as a juror because you clearly don't understand how the American justice system works.
>>64899113 The whole point of the series is that he didn't have a fair trial. Whether he did it or not isn't the point. Do you honestly think he had a fair trial? Even with the evedince left out on both sides. It's clear he didn't.
>>64898992 This is correct. The prosecution simply doesn't hold water.
Does that mean Avery is innocent of the crime? Not entirely, there's still a chance, probably even a good chance, that he did it. That's why this whole shit show is so tricky. What it does mean however is he deserves a retrial. Preferably far away from Wisconsin, with an independent lab testing the blood stains from the RAV4. And preferably with the prosecution having built a case on evidence that isn't shady as fuck or entirely non existent. But that would mean admitting Branden is completely innocent and was convicted on some real bullshit. Which in turn would mean a huge payout to him and the cops who put him in that situation likely losing their jobs. They'll fight tooth and nail to stop that happening.
>>64901659 You clearly have no knowledge of how bullshit the Reid method of interrogation is, or the disadvantages of learning disabilities on social interactions - especially those with an authority figure.
>>64901659 >not believing they fed the story to Branden
You literally see them do it. Any interrogation that results in the interrogator sitting back exasperated and saying something like "ok I'm just going to go ahead and say it, who shot her in the head" is complete bullshit.
Nevermind the fact that literally zero DNA evidence backs up the prosecutions story that they based on Brandens "confession". Raped her, cut her throat and stabbed her while chained to the bed? Orly?
>>64901753 He's just trolling man, no one is actually retarded enough to believe the case the prosecution used to convict Brendan.
Here's what fucking pissed me off the most: Judge Fox FINALLY shows some impartiality and dismisses Len FuckFace after finding out he let Brendan get interviewed without being present, yet still allows that fucking interview to be included in the trial?
Regardless of literally everything else about the case, is this not obvious misconduct or favouritism? I honestly believe this act alone should call his position into question, completely forgetting all the other bullshit in the show.
>>64901818 There's quite a few instance of "this act alone" in the course of both trials that probably should have resulted in mistrials. I think that's why so many people are staggered by it. I genuinely don't think it's so much that people, or at least not all of them, are convinced Steve didn't do it, it's that the process was so shoddy and corrupt it's almost beyond belief. Personally I think it's 50/50 if he did it or not, but I'm 100% fucking sure the case put forward by the prosecution doesn't stand up and they deserve retrials.
>>64901818 Any case where a defence attorney is dismissed for trying to get his client to plead guilty and the local sheriff dept is barred from the crime scene for conflict of interest yet shows up on multiple occasions anyway is immediately suspect. There's plenty of reasons to doubt the whole thing.
>>64901932 >>64901973 Oh there were plenty of other similar moments, the one I described just seemed to be the one that would most directly violate some written rule somewhere, I'd be fucking shocked if there wasn't a shit load of common law precedence to throw away any evidence produced by the actual misconduct a lawyer was dismissed for.
It just seemed like the most clear violation of defendant rights that wasn't muddied with circumstances such as accusations of framing and shit.
>>64898992 Reasonable doubt just reinforces the fact that the burden of proof is on the prosecution Literally anything could be a reasonable doubt if you think he's innocent Reasonable doubt is when a girl accuses someone of rape and the guy denies it You don't know who's lying, but there's a reasonable doubt as to whether he did it or not
If it seems overwhelmingly likely that someone committed a crime, one or two pieces of evidence that suggest innocence isn't reasonable doubt (unless they're very powerful pieces of evidence to you)
Judges often have to explain something like this to prevent guilty people from getting off because the defense convinced the jury that "anything is possible so you have reason to doubt anything"
Not that Avery is or isn't guilty, I'm just saying
>>64905834 The entire defense rested on the idea that every piece of major evidence had some reasonable doubt to its legitimacy. Almost none of the evidence against Avery made much sense and Brendans "confession" is backed up by basically no physical evidence and makes zero sense.
>>64905896 Reasonable is the key word In the documentary the police conspiracy seems like a very likely theory But the more it's weighed against the incriminating evidence left out of the documentary the less likely it seems by contrast
So it the police conspiracy seems reasonable to us, but it probably didn't to them
Brendan's trail was a shitshow and completely unrelated
>>64906111 >Brendan's trail was a shitshow and completely unrelated >completely unrelated It framed the whole prosecution case against Steve as well. That's one of the most absurd things about the whole thing. Sure the court ruled it shouldn't affect his case but the reality is they are intrinsically linked and can't be separated.
>>64906878 The judge in Steven's case didn't allow Brendan's confession or related evidence to be included in the trial due to the third party liability of simultaneously proving Brendan guilty I believe, so technically it was completely unrelated.
Of course the prosecutions ridiculous narrative was the one barely coherently given by a semi retarded minor under duress.
>>64907017 >technically it was completely unrelated. Technically yeah. Technically and reality often differ though. As soon as Kratz gave that press conference setting out Brendan's "story" as what actually happened they were unable to separate them, no matter how much they may have ended up wishing they could. And that's the ridiculous thing, I genuinely think if you could speak to the prosecutors in a quiet moment where they were being completely honest they'd say they wished they could redo that one. None of it helped their case at all.
>>64911327 It's more circumstantial shit. Personally I think she's cashing in and was likely hoping to cash in when she was with him for the lawsuit and during his trial. But even if she's telling truth it's not proof he's a murderer as you say.
Theories on "the brother and ex did it"? I see this tossed around all the time, and there's definitely some dirt under their fingernails, but no practical explanation of how they could have pulled it off.
>family forbidden to be on THEIR property while it's being searched for more than a week >no third party supervision whatsoever to the investigation, even though this was a hot case >manitowoc police was not to be allowed in the search for their previous involvement >is allowed on the search and it's only them that find evidence nailing steve >admissing a confession where a mentally retarded 16yo was fed facts by the investigators, and using it as the thing that incriminates steven all of this would not have been accepted in a trial in any 1st world country, and I hope some of the better US states. What the fuck ameribros?
The police didn't kill Theresa Halbach. Andrew Colborn located that RAV4 with the assistance of Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas who illegally trespassed onto the Avery Salvage Yard on the night of November 3rd 2005. Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas suspected something was up since the Avery Salvage Yard was the last place they knew Theresa visited on Oct.31st Halloween day. They went snooping on the property and found the car. They checked the car and found the key in the ignition and blood in the cargo area. Mike or Ryan removed the key from the ignition to ensure that no one could easily move the car off of the Avery property... freaked out about this huge discovery they call the Manitowoc Sheriffs Department. Andrew Colborn fielded the call that night and went out and met Ryan and Mike at the Salvage Yard so he could view the car for himself. Ryan and Mike show him the car and to be certain its Halbachs he "calls" in the plate number to dispatch. Colborn has to "call" in... instead of "radio" in... the plate number to Manitowoc dispatch because he wasn't in his police cruiser at the moment, but rather on foot and in the "field' on the Avery Salvage property. This mistake places Colborn at the scene and in contact with Halbachs RAV4... 2 days before it is officially located on November 5th, 2005, by Pam Sturm.... This is problematic for Colborn because all call and radio transmissions to dispatch are recorded and logged onto the Manitowoc Police server. Andrew Colborn is now operating outside of police protocol at a potential crime scene that he has no official directive to be at.
He tells Mike Halbach and Ryan Hillegas to basically STFU about what they found and not mention to anyone that they were ever on the Avery Salvage property that night. Ryan or Mike turns the RAV4 key over to Andrew Colborn. Mike and Ryan are told to go home. Andrew Colborn then immediately calls Lt. James Lenk and briefs him about the discovery of the Halbach car and breaches of protocol he committed on the Avery property, also about Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach being there. Lt James Lenk realizing that Colborn's calling in Halbachs plate is a serious mistake with potential consequences orders Andrew Colborn to remove the license plate from Halbach's car and then report to him immediately.
What James Lenk and Andrew Colborn, or the others for that matter, don't realize at this point and are completely unaware of is that Bobby Dassey and Scott Tadych have kidnapped, raped, shot and then burned Theresa Halbach in the privacy of the gravel quarry off of Jambo Rd on Halloween evening. They choose to burn her body to dispose of their DNA evidence of the crimes. They hid Halbach's car in the rear of Avery Salvage and wiped it clean of their prints. I believe it is Scott Tadych's idea to secretly transport the cremains of Halbach from the gravel quarry and dispose them into Steven Avery's burn pit. Scott Tadych transports Halbach's cremains in secret by using one of Barb Jandas burn barrels from her yard. Scott Tadych fails to collect all of Halbach's cremains from the original burn site in the gravel quarry, thus leaving some behind that FBI investigators later find... but he also fails in making certain all of Halbach's cremains are out of Barb Jandas burn barrel after dumping them into Steven Avery's burn pit. This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel.
This is why investigators found small bits of Halbach in Barb Jandas burn barrel. Thus making a total of three sites where Halbach's cremains are found. Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey are unaware that Ryan Hillegas and Mike Halbach have found Theresas car on the property and that Lenk and Colborn are now involved and in play with their scheme. .........By shear colossal luck, two completely independent frame jobs targeting one man, Steven Avery were shaping up into the perfect storm. On one front, from Lenk and Colborn regarding the RAV4, ....and on the other unconnected front by Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey regarding the cremains of Theresa Halbach. One party wasn't aware of the other's involvements at any point during the days leading up to the official discovery of Halbach's RAV4 at the Avery Salvage Yard hence why the investigation and murder trial made zero sense to anyone especially the Jury.
None of the evidence could be connected because it was all unrelated... everybody was guessing. But Buting and Strang had zeroed in on a part of it but couldn't fully form a solid defense to prove it. The Jury couldn't conceive that Manitowoc officers could have conspired to kill Theresa Halbach to frame Steven Avery as Ken Kratz insisted they had to if they wanted to follow the theory the defense presented of the frame up of Steven Avery by Manitowoc officials. And Ken Kratz was right... Imagine Scott Tadych's confused and utter relief when Steve Avery's blood was found in the Halbach car and the RAV4 key found in Steve Avery's bedroom..... he must have been like.... WTF?! A quote from Scott Tadych after Steven Avery is convicted of Theresa Halbach's murder.... "THIS IS THE GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN" ..... We will see Scott, we will see....................." >Now I am Avery's Auto and scrapyard
This is definitive proof that this series is officially "reddit".
This is /tv/. This is not the place for stupid pandering or fedoras, this is not the place for pathetic teenagers who are trying to be edgy. This is not the place for wild speculation about a case that only a select few know the full facts about.
Mods, could you PLEASE ban this shit and can we not start having generals about it (the most reddit threads in existence, go look at GoT for God's sake).
>>64914758 >this is not the place for pathetic teenagers who are trying to be edgy this has always been that. sorry if you saw screencaps on facebook 2 years ago and decided this was THE place that would make you feel like you're special.
>mfw all the people watching the show while already having the the mindset that he's innocent. Or guilty
While watching it I only cared about the fucked up interrogation stuff filled with leading questions and all the evidence that shouldn't have been allowed or which should have been followed up on, but then I finish it and so many people are just arguing whether he did it or not.
>>64915861 everybody unless caught in the act is innocent until proven guilty to me. I would hope everybody has that mindset, but apparently not, expecially in the police and justice system. Yeah I actually get both enraged and amused about the investigating process
>>64914703 That's possible actually. The forensics showed some of her blood was smeared on by hair which would be consistent with a head wound.
There was also a propane delivery driver who saw what was likely her vehicle leaving Avery's around the right timeframe for this theory but he couldn't see who was driving or even if it was a man of woman. Could it be that was Scott or Bobby, or even both, transporting her in the back to the quarry for cremation?
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