you should have never returned

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>>64663130
>mfw that "fight"
Jesus,the OT has aged really badly

>>64663130
>This is the return of the Jedi, Darth!

Jesus Christ fucking really?

>>64664106

I was way more true to actual sword fighting than anything in the PT. Real sword fights involve relatively few swings before someone is hit, really.

>>64663130
Why the hell did Ben lose again? He's stronger than him in almost every way

>>64664138
>"A New Hope before The Empire Strikes Back"
H A C K
A
C
K

>>64663130
>YOU DO NOT COMPREHEND THE REVENGE OF THE SITH, OBI-WAN

>>64664179
But they're not real swords. They're lightsabers.

>>64664186
No high ground

>>64664186
vader's tall helmet gave him the high ground

>>64664186
something something the chosen one something something Luke

>>64664186
Getting cut was part of his plan

>>64664219

That makes it even more dangerous, actually, and would lead to being even more defensive than you would with a regular sword which can only slice at particular angles or stab. Lightsabers are just pure, 360 degrees of cutting surface that cut through flesh like butter. So a strike is easier to make (due to more options for striking angles) and more likely to be lethal or otherwise more injurious. So yeah, the OT fights actually are a lot more true to life than the over-choreographed super-flippy video game-style PT fights.

>>64664186
He was old as fuck he would have died 5 minutes later anyway

>>64664186

Ben died many years before New Hope and Qui-gon taught him how to manifest his force ghost

>>64664426

Then why wasn't he blue until ESB?

>>64664186
He lost on purpose and became more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine.
That is, he became a spooky ghost and told Luke to do stuff, which saved Luke's ass many times and ultimately led to Vader's downfall so I guess he was right in the end.

>>64664479
Force ghost is not necessarily the same thing as physical manifestation.

>>64664186
They were on even ground, the apprentice is always stronger than the master.

>>64664186
Why does this shitty post has so many replies? The movie couldn't end right there you fucking dipshit of course he was gonna die.

>>64664614

Yeah, but you didn't say physically manifest or manifest a physical body, you said manifest his force ghost.

>>64664106
That fight is by far the worst in the OT.
Just try to compare the PT fights to the Empire or Jedi fights. They don't even come close.

>>64664366
>are a lot more true to life
So what, they're space wizards and warlocks. I want to see some swordplay that reflects that.

the fight is crap because they're just standing there prodding each other with glow sticks slowly and literally nothing else in the fight happens.

in ESB and ROTJ the fights made use of the geography of the location, they were longer and more dramatic with each character's personality coming across through the fight

in ANH they just stand there, swing a bit and then Kenobi gives up

>>64665446
>in ANH they just stand there, swing a bit and then Kenobi gives up

But that also reflects each character's personality if you actually think about it more than 2 seconds.

I tend to think of the fight as two old fuckers being rusty as hell after not having to use a lightsaber for decades

>>64665637

Me too

I like all the fights of Star Wars for their own significance, use your damn imaginations, it's justifiable given the context of each

>>64665365

I find real sword fighting with a sense of weight and consequence to be more compelling. But I guess it's just personal preference at that point.

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>>64664366

>>64665742
I think only Kingdom of Heaven and Twilight Samurai were able to convey what you said. Anyone know any other movie with realistic sword fighting?

>>64663130
There's this scene in the prequels, where Obi Wan is getting ready to fight someone, I think it was the Grievous fight, and he gets into this ready position where he moves his right hand, his sword hand, back behind him over his back foot and holds it the air, holds his entire body in front and completely open, and as if that's not enough, he extends his left hand in front of him. I know you little kids and idiots it looks like he's striking a bad ass ninja pose, but it's literally the worst and weakest possible position you could ever be in in a swordfight. A committee of experts could not possibly come up with a worse defensive position, unless it was something like "doing a handstand with your back to the opponent while your sword was locked in a safe that you don't know the combination to, in another room" If every other fight in the prequels was an actual, fatal sword fight between master duelists, they would still be worse than the OT because of this scene.

>>64666195
There's that Polish movie that people always post, I forgot the name. Rob Roy isn't bad. I'm one of the few people who haven't seen The Princess Bride, but I've heard some people say there's fairly realistic sword work in that, and I've also heard one of the actors was a world class fencer, but I don't know for sure.

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>>64666202
You're forgetting the part where he's wielding space magic and isn't in feudal japan.

>>64664179

>Real sword fights involve relatively few swings before someone is hit, really.

Real sword fights are also boring as hell. Star Wars is a fantasy movie why would you want realism !?

>>64664219
Same difference.

Take a look at at the Samurai films with Toshiro Mifune. Generally speaking, one hit and you're dead.

This was the initial intent as Lucas was inspired by Japanese film when he created Star Wars. So, no, all the stupid jump, saber-twirling, and other showy things in the prequels is not realistic at all.

The light saber battle between Alec Guinness Obi Wan and Darth Vader, while not as stylized as the prequels, is quite a bit more realistic. Also, it is not boring. There is tremendous personal enmity between the two characters and the words they say to each other are far more interesting than anything said in the prequels.

There is also tremendous tension in the scene if you understand a bit about sword fighting. Vader and Obi-Wan each know that if they get hit, it could very well be the end of their lives. These are Jedi masters fighting.

>>64666342
With Fire and Sword?

>>64666409
i thought obi wan used soresu

>>64666478
>is quite a bit more realistic
No. They still swing too slow.

>>64666478
>There is also tremendous tension in the scene if you understand a bit about sword fighting
Too bad you don't understand sword fighting either.

>>64666617
>They still swing too slow.

That's just technical limitation of special effects at the time.

>>64666568
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoMGgtLibDs

>>64666478
>saber-twirling, and other showy things in the prequels is not realistic at all.
Not all Japanese swordplay movies. Zatoichi has flashy swordfights, though no jumping. Lone Wolf and Cub is flashy.

>>64666723

>it's focus
>it's followers
>it's user

FUCK

>>64666664
You're right. Until I learn how to twirl my sword around like a majorette twirling her baton, I'll never be skilled in using swords.

>>64666722
It's still not realistic. Using realism as a argument of the OT fighting doesn't hold either.

>>64666848

If slow swinging is the only thing you can level against it as an argument for non-realism then you've missed the point of exactly WHAT we're calling realistic about the fight.

>>64666791
Chinese swordfighting has more of it, though it's more to confuse the opponent than for efficiency.

>>64666202
>>64666409
What a fucking shit 'fight'. That pose was a sign of the things to come being absolutely trash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXTFdDrd7pA

>>64666785
In a real battle, you don't screw around unless your opponent is pretty far from you. You definitely mess around if your opponent is a master.

The scene in Revenge of the Sith where Anakin and Obi-Wan are face-to-face, maybe two feet apart and both start twirling their light sabers is just cringeworthy.

>>64666943
Damn it. "You definitely *don't* mess around if your opponent is a master."

>>64666909
No you missed the point. Realistic is fast and minimal. You can't salad bar your argument.

>>64666931
>Grievous doesn't just tell his men to blast the fuck out of Kenobi as soon as he gets his first arm chopped off

>>64666195

Not exactly 'realistic', but both actors were skilled fencers, and it shows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB8tiSMCwRE

>>64666943
>and both start twirling their light sabers is just cringeworthy
I think before EU was trashed, they tried justifying that that was a technique or some shit to power up your attack. Kind of like taking a huge wind up when swinging a baseball bat or golf club.

>that dialogue before the fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xP3fI7yn5s

>>64667062
>that cliche cartoon moment when he stares at his hand for a brief moment
>Obi Wan doesn't try attacking at that moment

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In a world where the combatants don't wear any armour and a decent hit is basically a OHK, lightsaber fights would just look like fencing, because it would be the most effective way to hit your opponent without being hit yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taQySJd1mDk

You can see in the original ANH confrontation that they sort of mimicked fencing, where Obi-Wan tries some thrust attacks and Darth Vader paries them with a circular motion

This is far more realistic and interesting than the pointless, overly theatrical ballerina flipping, spinning and showboating of the prequels.

The new trilogy has gone for something different to both, closer to the original, but more of a medieval style where they just sort of bash each other in a more slow and visceral way.

>>64666409
Even using space magic, it doesn't matter, unless he literally has to leave himself completely undefended and actually extend his arm and hand into harm's way to activate it. I can't swear to it, but if I remember correctly lightsaber clashes follow this pose, not telekinesis battling, so your point is still moot regardless.

>>64667179
This
Especially if you consider the fact that any combatant could turn off their saber at any point to instantly reactivate it, making every instance of blocking a potential death

>>64666931
i literally cannot believe the edit at 2:19

>>64667179
That's not realistic either. Realistic lightsaber fencing they'd go for the hands and arms more than the body. Then the body for the finish.

>people trying to pin a realistic fighting style on psychic prescient space wizard monks

you autists are pathetic

>>64667311
Yes, I agree. Lightsabers and users would probably equip themselves with pretty good handguards and arm armour.

>>64667275
I read a theory that lightsabers kind of "static" to each other, making it difficult to slide the blade down the other shaft and impossible to just deactivate.
Might just be a clever excuse for shitty plot holes.

>>64667292

That wasn't in the movie, they were truncating the scene so you only saw Kenobi and Grievous actually fighting. In the movie you see him get on the lizard and chase after Grievous.

>>64664186
He had a heart attack

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>>64667368

Handguards, you say?

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>>64667179
Actually, considering they're supposed to be based on katanas, wouldn't a real lightsaber fight be more like kendo?

>>64664106
not really meant to be a fight but a confrontation. Alec Guinness did no sword training or anything and they just winged it on the day. He was like 63 when they filmed it.

>>64667373
No sliding? Sure, I can buy it. No deactivating doesn't make any sense though, since the blade emerges from the hilt and you can just cut the power supply
The EU even had characters that specialized in that form of fighting

>>64666508
I watched some of that, I don't think it's that. It might not be Polish, it's some kind of eastern European though. it gets posted on 4chan sometimes, that's how I first found out about it, but there's a fight between two guys in a muddy camp, at least one has a saber, there are a bunch of onlookers, they seem to be some kind of military men, and I think it's lightly raining. I've never seen any subtitles or seen it dubbed, so that's why it's kind of hard to find it or describe it.

>>64667275
this

so many instances in the ot pt and tfa where just turning off the sabre would result in victory

>>64667373
gtfo eu fag

>>64667496
>so many instances in the ot pt and tfa where just turning off the sabre would result in victory
And since it's so easy to do the whole lightsaber fighting meta would revolve around it, which leads us back to a kind of fencing style for the most effective/safe application

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Most realistic lightsaber battle

>>64667626
>>>/reddit/

>>64667577
>clash lightsaber against opponent's lightsaber
>turn off own lightsaber
>get decapitated by opponent's lightsaber because you're a dumb fuck who doesn't realize they're pressing hard against your blade
Way to go.

>>64666723
Spinning is winning

>>64667431
Well, there you go. Bravo JJ. It makes fucking sense.

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>>64667696
You'd obviously turn to the side or duck or do any other number of moves that allow you to evade his arc
Pic relate is joking but it's still a decent demonstration

>>64667431
Handguard is too far out from the handle.

>>64667577
i honestly would not mind watching a lightsaber duel like this it could make for great dialog in between

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0CSrUrfA98

>>64667275

I used to think about this too, but it doesn't really seem like there is a consistent amount of time it takes for a lightsaber to ignite and fully extend. If you notice, sometimes it takes nearly a half a second for a lightsaber to ignite and reach full length, other times it seems to happen instantaneously or nearly so. So if it's instant, then wht you describe is not only vaid, but a high level technique, but if it takes even an eyeblink's worth of time, that would be suicide, at least against a skilled lightsaber user.

>>64667757
This is cool, but most of these seem to have the assumption that a) you have super speed compared to the other guy and b) your opponent remains entirely still and never react to what you do

>>64667949
That's probably one of the best counterarguments to it, really

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>>64667626
False.

>>64668019
This is prequel tier choreography

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>>64667858

No, it actually comes FROM the handle. The metal you see are just to keep the user's hands safe, but if another saber cut through the metal it would hit a blade inside the sheath.

Pic related is an official diagram of Kylo's saber. All the blades come from the same source inside the handle.

>>64667757
If they were going to show Yoda fight with a lightsaber, this should have been his style.

>>64668087
he should of just threw the light sabre and controlled it with the force from a distance through the whole battle .

he did this once to a clone trooper

why lucas

>>64666478
>not realistic at all

>star wars
>realism

god damn fuck you all

What did he mean by this? Does this imply that Obi Wan had already been to the Death Star before?

>>64667954
Yeah.

>>64667757
Dude, even utilizing Force abilities implies that the other person isn't also going to have Force abilities. They're going to counter that shit, likely by getting the fuck out of the way when they sense what you're about to do.

And how the fuck is "Well, dodge when you turn it off" any good? The two of you were pushing forward purely to get into that mess. You'd have to be moving even before you turn it off.

If you want to be out of the way, you might as well just deflect the damn thing.

>>64668087
I'd really like to see this happen, a character pulling the same move twice using the Force in conjunction with his lightsaber, or turning it off to pull some dumbass move, then end up killed because he fights someone who's actually caught on.
>>64668294
Don't play the retard.

>>64668223
This is so fucking retarded, I hate this fucking argument.

>THERE'S MAGIC AND SHIT YO SO EVERYTHING FLIES

Fuck no. They are still humans fighting with human weapons and human fighting limitations, it needs to make fucking sense.

Just because it's not a "realistic" setting doesn't mean anything can fucking happen, there's certain basic logic laws.

>>64666943

You have no fucking idea what "baiting" means do you.

The irony, holy shit.

>>64667626
hey tumblr!

>>64668294

Yeah, Ben and Vader used to have tea every Tuesday afternoon on the Death Star. But things got heated during their last tea time and some regrettable words were said about Vader's mother. Vader demanded Ben leave and never come back, and now he holds a grudge. The next time Vader sees Ben he tries to actually kill him.

>>64668330
If we go with the force allowing you to sense the others moves, then a fencing style is even more possible, since otherwise we go in a circle of 'sense that he's going to block, prepare to turn off' -> 'sense that he's going to turn off, don't block and back off' - circle and they just back away from each other

>>64668330
>They're going to counter that shit, likely by getting the fuck out of the way when they sense what you're about to do.

Did you not notice all the counter-moves that were also listed?

>>64668453
>a fencing style is even more possible
Which I like. Or like I said, maybe kendo? Or those samurai duels that end pretty quickly once they close in for the kill.

>>64668480
>counter-moves
This isn't fucking RPS.

>>64668617
>Which I like.
In fact, that was my initial argument, sorry if I wasn't being clear. There mere existence of turning-off moves would make sword-duels as we know them from the movies way too risky, and you'd try to keep as much distance as possible from your enemy while trying to poke holes in him.

>>64667469
Activating a light saber was not instantaneous in the movies. It took maybe a second or two for the energy blade to extend to its full length.

I seem to recall that turning off the light saber also took a bit of time.

All in all, turning the light saber on and off, leaving yourself weaponless in very close quarters during combat seems like a bad idea.

>>64668712
You only have to do it once and there's no longer a combat since there's no longer an enemy capable of fighting back
Of cours ethat assumes that igniting doesn't take a second

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>>64664106
>the OT has aged really badly
>aged

Nigga, people already thought most of the action in Star Wars was retarded.

>>64668617
>This isn't fucking RPS.

But all fighting styles DO have moves and counter-moves, dummy. That's the whole strategy of fighting.

>Use these moves to approach your opponent
>If he approaches you in A/B/C way, change your approach to X/Y/Z

>Use these moves to attack your opponent
>If he defends using A/B/C switch to attacking with X/Y/Z

>Use these moves to defend from your opponent
>If he switches to attacking with X/Y/Z, defend instead with D/E/F

And yeah, there is a lot in between there, too, that must be learned through experience and done by gauging your opponent. But what makes a "fighting style" is a series of moves and counter moves that can be used in certain situations to achieve specific ends. You practice those as much as possible so that when it comes time to fight for real the basics are literally a reflexive second nature and you can focus on strategizing when to apply which moves and when you must improvise.

>>64668855

I feel like this must have just been the actors fucking around during filming. There's no way someone TOLD them to act this way for any serious purpose.

>>64669017
They could barely see out of the helmets and the entire suit was very hard to move in.

my face when new hope is the worst movie I have ever seen and most people think that Im trolling when Im saying this. also tesb is 10/10 and return is 8/10

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>>64668855

>that guy's belt falling off

>>64668712
This is actually one of the biggest inconsistencies in the films, how sometimes they took longer to extend.
When Luke first turns on a lightsaber it takes a second, while let's say, Palpy on revenge of the sith turns on his saber on an instant, like a fast draw.
Always bugged me

Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon vs. Maul = GOAT

>>64669227

lightsabers in general are extremely inconsistent.

In ANH sabers are about half a foot longer than in any other SW movie. Luke's saber goes from blue to white. They're also thinner.

In ESB Vader's saber is now more of a pink color and Luke's is again totally blue.

In Rotj Vader's is completely red now and they seem to be a bit shorter.

In the prequels it's a bit more consistent as far as shape and colors go.

And overall, in the side materials, merch and even posters nobody can figure out what thape the tip is supposed to be and if there's more glow at the base of the blade than at the tip.

>>64669227

I always assumed it was meant to be instant, or nearly so, but back in the 70's they couldn't do that easily without it looking really awkward, so they opted to have the blade actually extend out over a number of frames.

Notice in ROTJ, Vader swings at him and Luke is able to raise his deactivated saber, turn it on, and block Vader's swing all in one quick motion without skipping a beat.

Video related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RFYoZ7H67A (described blocking at 0:55)

>>64668855
where is this from?

>>64669574
the kanji club

>>64663130
Is this pic from the SE?
The sabers looks too clean, stabilized and well-defined

>>64669488
It's really funny how they're always just aiming at the other guys' saber

I have another question regarding the force:

Do they have like a complete DBZ like awareness of each other's energy levels, in terms of strength and distance?

Sometimes you hear them phase out and stare and go 'Something terrible just happend', literally across the galaxy they feel it.


If they can feel something happening literally on another planet, how can any jedi ever sneak into an evil base? Can't he be sniffed out immediately by a sith/dark jedi

>>64669679

There is an aspect of swordfighting to which you're trying to knock your opponents weapon into an unfavorable position in order to get a clear strike

if you strike too much you are opening yourself up to vulnerability and potential peril

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>>64668855
>The belt that falls off

>>64669707
Sheev's power level was literally so high it blocked every Jedi in the entire galaxy from using the force to sense things

You'd think the closer they got to him physically, the more they'd be able to feel his giant power level radiating the force across the galaxy like a galactic sun

but no

>>64669227
Yeah there are the same inconsistencies on both prequels and originals. Vader saves the emperor by turning his saber instantly as Luke swings.
On the cave in dagobah Vader's saber takes a long time to extend (it was in slow motion but still takes forever). Same can be said for their duel on cloud city.

>>64669982
That Dagobah scene was a hallucination of Luke and what he will be up against. That isn't inconsistency.

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>>64669707
Yes, Vader senses obi wan on the death star and luke on the convoy heading for endor's moon. Just like in DBZ they can hide their power if they are subtle about it. Palpatine hid from the jedi by not taking direct action until the end. The Jedi sensed him, they knew there was a menace clouding their vision, they were never able to identify who it was, not even Anakin who was the one jedi that spent most time with him.

>>64670193
It's a force hallucination, those are basically just visions, and it's kind of odd to assume that the ignition time of a lightsaber would change in a vision

>>64669982
Cloud City?
More like Cuckold City, amirite?

>>64670358
What about our little Mary Sue?

Kylo says something along the lines of 'the more time she gets to discover her new powers, the more powerful she gets'

If the force truely did 'awaken', why wouldn't he sense her huge power immidately?

Just seems to be a lot of inconsistencies in terms of sensing shit across the galaxy, and not sensing 1-2 jedi on your ship.

>>64670415
yeah, you're right

>>64670380
Maybe it was Lukes sense for a dramatic entry for his arch nemesis in a vision.

>>64670483

The Force is essentially the spiritual life force of the universe that ties everything and everyone together. Of course you can sense billions of lives being simultaneously snuffed out further away than you can sense a single person simply existing, especially if that person is trained in the art of concealment.

It's like saying it's inconsistent to see an explosion from miles away if you can't pick out Waldo from a crowd immediately.

>>64670483
He did sense her, after she demonstrated her power ¿what movie were you watching?
He says "the longer it takes to find her, the more powerful she gets" She did not demonstrate her power when they met, it was only later when he mind probed her.
Its different depending of the situation, and the person. Vader remarks that he sensed Luke on the Endor convoy, and the emperor says that he didn't.
The magnitude of the event and the closeness of the person involved is a factor for interstellar awareness.
Blowing up a planet is huge, so obi wan sensed it. One of your pupils turning to the dark side is something that yoda felt across planets. Han's death is something Leia is going to feel instantly, even if she does not know what it is, she knows something terrible happened.

>>64670866
It would just seem that it'd be easier for them to sense other force wielders (DBZ style)

They talk about how they can sense good and evil in specific persons, their emotions and son on. So it seems pretty sensitive.

It always bothered me how they were able to sneak anywhere close to siths without being snuffed out.

idk

>>64671117

Like I said, Jedi train themselves in the art of concealment. Hiding their emotions, calming themselves in the face of danger, etc. They make themselves hard to sense on purpose. You're right that you can be very sensitive with the Force and sense nuanced things, but there's still a difference between sensing something in someone you're looking at or someone you're already aware of and sensing the presence of someone you're not aware of and who is essentially actively disguising themselves either as a "normal" person or concealing their entire presence.

You're discounting the ability of someone to use the Force to interfere with another Force user's detection abilities.

>>64664106
They're old fucking men what did you expect flips and shit
They're also using the force to predict each others movements and try to think 3 steps ahead of the other the battle was more like a game of chess than a sword fight that's why it's slow and deliberate

I mean it would have been a couple of pretty boring movies if Vader just went *bing* "They're in the garbage shoot"

>>64671479
for
>>64671324

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>>64671479
>I mean it would have been a couple of pretty boring movies if Vader just went *bing* "They're in the garbage shoot"

inb4 the obvious

>>64664106
"Your powers are weak old man"

>>64671479

That, too.

>if you strike me down I will grow a thousand times more powerful
What did he actually mean by this? Could he not be Luke's spirit animal unless he was dead?

>>64672490
Can't tell if trolling or not

>>64664366
The pt fights are more realistic from a physics standpoint though, because you have to remember that the weapons are weightless.

Add to that the fantasy element, where force users move at inhuman speeds, and then it starts to make sense that jedi were swirling badasses because they their weapons are weightless, plus they're moving really fast.

Swinging the sabers slowly like great swords in the ot is unrealistic and dumb looking.

TFA actually had a nice balance of the two previous trilogies styles of saber fighting. It was like, fast moving long sword/great sword fighting.

>>64664186
he was a weak old man who probably was tired of fighting. he wasn't going to destroy the empire by killing vader

>>64667066
Holy shit some director from the 1940s can direct and frame a fight scene better than any modern action movie director. What the FUCK.