How far is the Dagoba system from Hoth? In ANH, they establish that a single TIE FIGHTER could not be in deep space because those fighters are short range. Are we to assume that X Wings are long range fighters capable of traveling potentially across the galaxy or between solar systems on their own?
Why do they keep doing this?
I know that since all the main characters and highest paid actors are on a ship, they will not die. So why do they keep trying to create artificial suspense and tension and then accentuate it with c3p0 constantly reminding us how unlikely it is that they will survive? They did it when Luke and Han were out in the blizzard. They did it during the asteroid scene.
Why? It's lame.
Considering all the places on Dagobah that Luke could have landed, it is very surprising he was even remotely close to Yoda.
He didn't mention feeling a presence on the planet. There is no indication he gives that leads anyone to believe he is following the force or sense something. He says his computer tells him there are lifeforms on it. He never gets a message from Obi Wan saying "land here". He never says anything like "I feel a strong force power coming from here..."
He says NOTHING.
Not only that, when he lands on the planet, he actually crash lands in a random spot. Not one he picked or decided to land on.
And it just happened to be the one spot that was right where Yoda lived.
Convenient is all.
IDK considering how small the rebellion was, I'd wager that X wing fighters were even worse.
Oh okay I didn't realize this. Still, as far as this movie is concerned, it doesn't make sense. They don't mention it yet. So you can understand my confusion.
What in the FUCK happened to this kid's face? Scars, and his nose is completely different. He looks almost like a different person.
Another thing: Luke just said, in the movie, "Now I gotta find this Yoda... if he even exists."
So it's pretty clear he had no idea where he was going and he definitely was not following 'the force' to find Yoda. Even ON the planet, he could not feel the force from Yoda.
1. What the hell is wrong with the Emperor's eyes? I also notice he looks completely normal aside from his eyes. He also speaks completely normally. Not that odd cackle thing that Ian McDiarmid does.
2. Both of them feel a great disturbance in the Force. It's Luke. Why didn't they feel Obi Wan or Yoda? Both were/are stronger in the force than Luke?
Eh it's something you learn as a huge star wars nerd.
Even back in the old days with the Xwing and Tie fighter games (around 1997), Tie Fighters did not have have hyperdrives, all Rebel fighter did have one.
Furthermore, X-wings require astromech droids (such as R2D2) plugged in, in order to make more than a couple of jumps. The droid stores the complex navigational data that the ship's on-board computer can't.
>What's really weird is that Luke doesn't even use hyperdrive on screen to get to Yoda
That is because the audience has seen hyperdrive used and knows what it looks like. We don't need to see it actually done in order for us to know he used it. This is how you make a movie, time becomes very important to the stoytelling, so you cut out REDUNDANT SHIT.
Those games came out after ROTJ, which was after ESB. In ESB, its not yet mentioned that they have any. But I see what you mean. They are 'revealed' to have hyperdrives. That's fine. I accept this.
That's a bit sad. He was really handsome. Still is, but damn.
This... is never mentioned, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Yoda did mention that he watched Luke for a long time. And it does seem as though Ben and Yoda planned for Yoda to train Luke.
I'm actually going to accept this explanation. Thank you.
Yes, I noticed this as well.
Yeah see above.
Yoda and Obi-Wan hide out in the boonies for this reason. Vader did sense Obi-Wan and even his specific presence once he was on the Death Star.
If you throw a new stone into a pond it creates a disturbance, after a while the ripples stop but the stone is still in the pond. You could say Luke's own awakening to the force caused the disturbance while Yoda and Obi-Wan are settled stones in the force pond. Vader sensed Obi-Wan when they were physical close in ANH, that's like seeing a stone in a pond because you're bending over to the water's surface while ripples are visible from further away.
Yeah sure, it's a "copout" but how else would you have done it? Have luke land on the other side of the planet, then spend half an hour of the movie trying to find Yoda? It's a movie and the story needs to move forward, so sometimes unlikely things happen. As long as the suspension of disbelief isn't broken, I'm fine with it, aren't you?
That emperor is a woman. With some random bloke voice dubbed over the top. Ian McDiarmid didn't play sheev until rotj, and then Lucas re-did pic related with ian for the special editions.
I said definitely doesn't use it to get to Bespin because you see Luke leave Dagobah, cut to Cloud City stuff for some minutes, cut to Luke not in hyperespace saying to R2-D2 that they're almost there, cut to Cloud City for a while, cut to Luke flying through the clouds.
No, one anon explained that Yoda led him there. This is consistent with his ship suddenly losing control and crashing, and also with Yoda saying he essentially watched Luke his whole life.
Ahhh, I didn't realize. Yeah he just seems like a completely normal looking guy aside from the eyes. The normal speaking is throwing me off the most.
Yeah I really like the explanation.
As much as I nitpick, this is a question I would never ask. It doesn't matter how they fly. It wouldn't work IRL. There is technology in the SWU to allow them to fly. That's all there is to it.
The prequels and The Force Awakens were missing heartfelt, magical, mystical moments like this. Seriously.
Why did Vader stop the bounty hunter from shooting Chewbacca?
That is very strange.
Who taught Luke how to swordfight? Yoda didn't have one and focused on force powers. Ben had been dead for years, and they didn't really cover sword fighting so much as force basics.
X-Wings have hyperdrive engines and TIE Fighters do not.
This is almost Star Wars 101.
Just because you don't hear Ben saying "there, Luke, land there" it doesn't mean the Force didn't tell Luke where to land.
Now Han Solo and the nig nog getting to the exact spot where they wanted to go hyperspacing through the atmosphere of the death planet is very surprising.
It's almost like jumping to the hyperspace turned into teletransporting yourself.
There's very little in that fight that suggests Luke has any particular aptitude with swordfighting. Vader is humouring him the entire time.
He gets a few lucky hits which Vader counters with bursts or aggression that leave Luke rekt yet again.
>Yoda didn't have one and focused on force powers
Yea I used to believe that too but the Millenium happened.
He seemed to swordfight pretty well, especially with a massless blade that had a round hilt. Given his moves are choreographed, Luke fights like he has some training. I guess it isn't important. Yes I know Vader is just toying with him the entire time.
Because Irvin Kershner was a genius.
It was him, and only him who gave the human side of Vader a kickstart. Lucas' teacher from USC, ESB's director Kersh was decades ahead of anyone.
He understood friendship, even though he was an evil mass murderer and started becomnig grey morality in the audiences eyes.
If you watch ESB again, you'll realize that Vader is a demanding boss, and a ruthless man, but he is honorable and shows the faintest glimmers of benevolent acts.
>Actually wanting Luke to join him vs. Emperor, to create a True Neutral force dynasty, neither evil nor good.
Vader could have been GOAT character of all time if Lucas directed worth a shit in the prequels.
Prequels could have been Oscar worthy shit, even for a space opera.
Instead he was surrounded by yes men and lackeys, and aside from Doug Chiang he had no one to criticise his follies.
If Kershner directed the prequels we would be discussing Ewan McGregor's two oscar wins in a row for Star Wars today.
I... never really thought about it like that, but you're right.
Kind of makes me want to join the imperial military and rise through the ranks so I can get a nod from Vader.
Thinking about it, that was pretty much the premise of the TIE Fighter game.
I honestly disagree with your analysis, but if you say so. I don't see why he would kill his generals at the drop of a hat but then spare the princess he was looking forward to executing and a random wookiee who serves no purpose, but okay.
He choked out an imperial officer in the first movie for not believing in the force.
He kills without thinking twice.
And then he's supposed to be a good guy, you're saying, because he saves the heroes from Boba Fett due to plot necessity. I don't buy it, sorry.
I assumed he was lying about telling Luke to join him to fight the emperor. I also thought he was lying about him being his father. I thought he'd say anything to get Luke to join his cause. Then the only two jedi in existence would be on the empire's side.
I wasn't aware that they could leave the galaxy?
Finished the movie. I don't really get why people think this is better than A New Hope. Empire Strikes Back is quite good, but I had a lot of problems with it. I'd give A New Hope a 10/10 and I'd give Empire Strikes Back a 7/10.
Later today or tomorrow, I will watch and review Return of the Jedi.
Maybe he saves the heroes because he wants them to get to Luke? Or just to interrogate them?
After all he broke a deal with Lando about those staying in cloud city to carry'em with him.
But the character fought as if he had training.
This would be like if someone trained in martial arts for a kung fu movie, then fought another character using kung fu. Then because the villain is a better martial artist, you say the hero had no training whatsoever even though it clearly appears as though he has had some training.
Luke obviously had some training in lightsaber combat. He was shit at it, but it was clearly not like he just picked up his lightsaber that morning.
>Are we to assume that X Wings are long range fighters capable of traveling potentially across the galaxy or between solar systems on their own?
Uh, yes, that's well established. Is this your first time watching Star Wars? X-Wings are, on the whole, vastly superior fighters to TIE/lns. Vader's TIE Advance x-1 was the only model of TIE in the OT with a hyperdrive.
Think about it from the perspective of watching it for the first time in 1980. There were no guarantees they wouldn't die.
That's what I mean, sorry. I don't mean to criticize the movies, but I'm watching them again for the first time in years. And now, I just ask questions that pop up to me while watching them.
I will absolutely do a ROTJ thread. I'll even do the prequels after that. I'm trying to watch them in the order they came out. BTW, I ask these questions AS I am watching the movie. That's why I post screenshots of the movie with my questions.
I'm rationalizing it this way myself. He says he wants to take the prisoners on board his own ship. Leia is still officially a fugitive, since she was broken out of prison and she is still technically due for execution. She's also the princess of the rebellion so she'd be useful.
Luke could most likely sense if his friends are alive or not, so they could be further used as bait or for interrogation.
Honestly it just seems as though that happened because the main characters needed to survive.
You're forgetting this is a universe where the force can control your reflexes so you can block laser blasts. Seems like most of the defensive saber techniques would actually be force reflex shit like we saw in ANH. Not to mention the force is always described as beyond physical reality. If the Death Star doesn't compare to the power of the force, I doubt a lightsaber does.
This question has already been answered many times, but yes. I haven't watched Star Wars movies since I was a kid.
In this movie, ESB, they NEVER make any mention of any kind of hyperdrive technology on X Wing fighters. And in the previous movie, ANH, they specifically make a point of saying that TIE fighters are not long range.
I assumed that, given how ghetto the rebellion is, and since X Wings are also used for dog fights, they would not have hyperdrive or light speed capability either. We also don't see the light speed whoosing thing the Falcon does any time Luke travels between planets or long distances. So based on this movie alone, I think my question was pretty legitimate.
Another anon answered that X Wing fighters had hyperdrives and light speed capability, as revealed in ROTJ (which I haven't seen yet, and, which didn't exist at the time ESB came out).
Considering it was Han Solo and Leia Organa, I think you could make an educated guess or a pretty big wager on the fact that they would survive.
In OT mythos, Rebellion has high quality, supremacy fighters designed to be survivable, shielded, and long range due to pilot shortage,
and the Empire has short range, incredibly maneuverable CAS and short range fighters.
Though its established that the most maneuverable craft in either navy is the TIE Interceptor, whereas the fastest is A-Wing.
>You're forgetting this is a universe where the force can control your reflexes so you can block laser blasts.
What does this have to do with anything? How does this relate to Luke knowing how to swordfight without having learned it?
>Seems like most of the defensive saber techniques would actually be force reflex shit like we saw in ANH.
I'll give you that, except Luke clearly knows how to attack as well as defend. Towards the end, he was just randomly swinging and getting flustered, which I appreciated - it looked like he was just a goofball with a sword. In the beginning though? There was some clear fencing choreography. He definitely had some lessons.
>Not to mention the force is always described as beyond physical reality.
No, it's entirely within physical reality.
"It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."
"A jedi can feel the force flowing through him."
>If the Death Star doesn't compare to the power of the force, I doubt a lightsaber does.
This really has little to do with the issue I have here. I realize the kind of argument you're trying to make, but it is poorly formatted.
This was my question. In the first movie, they send their entire arsenal (something like 15 pilots) against the Empire's best weapon. And I'm supposed to believe their ships are of higher quality than the Galactic Empire's? Not likely, but apparently this is the case.
Ah, I accept this. It has little to do with the Empire's fighter's being bad quality, then. They're just designed for a different purpose. I'll accept your explanation, but it's just disappointing that a for sure explanation isn't given in the movies.
I'll make it easy for you. No one ever trains Luke with a lightsaber, it doesn't happen. The force is beyond what we consider normal or physical, I really hate when people say it exists for that universe so it isn't supernatural or is completely natural. It's purposefully obscuring the point in semantics. I'm not saying the force doesn't exist to them, it's just beyond what the average citizen considers normal or possible for them. It's also powered by belief, that's inherently mystical.
The force is beyond "this crude matter" we see. Shit, even Obi-Wan talks shit about using your eyes because they mislead you. Seeing the future is a super power, that's what the force is. It's like saying LotR has magic but it follows these certain rules so it's not mystical anymore.
The force isn't going to teach you how to shut off the shields on the Starkiller base or how to build an x-wing from raw materials, it will however guide your actions and reflexes. It'll show you visions and give you physical abilities beyond what should be possible for your species. So saying the force is this mundane thing just because it has rules in universe or it's real for the jedi doesn't really hold water for me.
>I'll make it easy for you. No one ever trains Luke with a lightsaber, it doesn't happen. The force is beyond what we consider normal or physical, I really hate when people say it exists for that universe so it isn't supernatural or is completely natural. It's purposefully obscuring the point in semantics.
I think when people say someone is arguing semantics, it means they aren't prepared for logical, well-defined arguments. Anyway I am abandoning this thread and I am going to watch ROTJ now. Feel free to join me in the other thread.
Dumbest thing was how the Falcon's hyperdrive wasn't working but it still managed to reach another system in a couple of days
It's because in Star Wars planets are like towns, which is why every planet has the same climate throughout and they talk about "going to so and so planet", not "going to this city in this region of this continent of so and so planet"
Through the force all things are possible.
What that means from a plot perspective is that a force user feeling his way through things is going to be incredibly lucky, except not lucky because that's just how the fucking force works.
X-Wings are long range fighters, this was established just as Luke was leaving for Dagobah.
It's the will of the force nigga I don't gotta splain shit.
TIE fighters had decent firepower and better maneuverability than X-Wings but were heavily stripped down, no shields or life support. TIE/IN fighters were almost as well armed as an X-Wing and were as maneuverable as an A-Wing. And you could have something like 6 TIE fighters or 3 TIE Interceptors for the same cost as an X-Wing.
It was just an Imperial doctrine difference, Imperials had lots of capital ships to carry fighters between systems. Rebels had fewer and their insurgent war needed more mobile, cheaper assets. TIE fighters were cheaper but considering you had to launch them from capital ships, they were a more expensive technology to utilize.
>Convenient is all.
Are you a living retard ? It demonstrated over and over again that jedi and sith have clairvoyant and precognitive abilities. Yoda explicitly state he has watched Luke all his life, do you think Luke was on a galactic reality show ? No, he used the force to watch Luke, to know when he was coming, and to either guide him there or at least predict where he would crash.
>Who taught Luke how to swordfight?
So much shit happened offscreen between 4-5, Vader doesn't even meet Luke in 4 yet seems quite familiar with him in 5. Also Obi Wan "taught him well" during those 5 minutes he showed Luke how to use a lightsaber.
>managed to reach another system in a couple of days
I think they were out there for longer than a couple of days, just like Luke training. But that's just me, all the movie tells you is that "Some time passes."
>Established in canon as having a hyperdrive
>Literally just two ion engines and no hyperdrive capability
It would take a Tie Fighter thousands of years to traverse that distance.
>>You're forgetting this is a universe where the force can control your reflexes so you can block laser blasts.
>What does this have to do with anything? How does this relate to Luke knowing how to swordfight without having learned it?
Gallant:In Star Wars, Jedi use the force to give them superhuman reflexes and precision hand eye coordination
Goofus: DURRRR, WHAT DAT HAVE TO DO WITH SWORDFIGHTING ?!?!
This is what you sound like.
DURRR, HOW X WING HAVE HYPERDRIVE ? NO ONE SAID DAT !!!
They never show a toilet or explain pooping either, so I guess you think everyone in Star Wars wears diapers.
Look if you're literally autistic then I apologize and can understand how you might have been confused, but if not, you need to stop watching movies, you don't have the tools, idiot.
I'd always assumed that Bespin was just in the same solar system as Hoth. The cover my ass canon explanation is that the Millenium Falcon has a backup hyperdrive that took hours to spin up and was like 1/10th the speed
no, you can't have moments like that in modern block busters because 90% of the audience wouldn't get it.
Movies now have very different feel and pace. If that movie was released now, people would probably shit on it too.
Nearly every movie, espcially a space-opera type thing has a load of flaws if you analyse it enough. The point is that they aren't so implausiby unlikely or stupid that it takes you out of the film, or leaves us completely unable to understand or relate to characters from such nonsensical bizarre universe
I mean like with Luke landing on Dagoba, eh? I just sort of figured it was chance or fate or some combination of both. I dunno, like Yoda was some mystical figure, Dagoba some otherworldly environment where just down the road from Yoda's hut there is a cave you can hallucinate in? Mildly noticeable unlikely stuff happening there just sort of fits and doesn't break the scene or our understanding of the characters, but almost sort of adds to the air of mystery and depth.