its been a year since empire (or at least several months, long enough for lando to get hired by jabba and infultrate). he applied what yoda taught him and learned using that as a basis. the force grew stronger with him as he matured into a more grown up person. ROTJ is the culmination of those successes and failures leading him to be a better hero and a better jedi. he realizes the bigger risks at stake and is even willing to die to save his father and the galaxy
Like the first one I got in a disagreement with a buddy of mine about Rey as a character I felt that she was rather boring but he kept insisting that Luke was just as boring and perfect as she was in his first movie
>>64530192 Uh, no? We actually see Luke develop as a character to get to a level where he can actually be useful outside of a cockpit. Anyone who claims Luke was a Mary Sue either never watched ANH or hasn't watched it recently. He gets his shit kicked around the entire movie and gets lucky once.
And he still has to draw on the dark side to defeat his father. And we see the final evolution of his character when he stands over his disarmed father and drops his weapon, rejecting hatred and embracing love.
He defeated the Emperor not by being a great warrior, but by being a powerful soul.
Rey, on the other hand, defeats Ren mentally and physically in the same movie. The villain has been emasculated and either needs to be replaced or developed into a more intimidating figure to make up for what he's become at this point, which is a foil on the level of TR-8R.
>>64531072 >>one of the best pilots in the galaxy without any formal training he had his wingmen and squad cover him alot. and he was a trained pilot in a T-16 already.. no one ever once insinuates hes one of the best
>would have been killed by sand people without Obi-Wan showing up >would have been killed when the Empire attacked his home if he was there >would have been captured/killed at the checkpoint without Obi-Wan using the Jedi mind trick >would have been seriously hurt/killed without Obi-Wan intervening in the cantina >would have been ripped off by Han without Obi-Wan being there >Han hates him at first because he's a naive, annoying farm boy >Leia hates him at first for the same reason >constantly whines during training
>>64531118 Come the fuck on. Anyone posts weak counters like that we we laugh in their face. His piloting was bullshit like Anakin in the podracing. Star Wars is full of Space Monk Messiah bullshit and "fans" still supposedly getting triggered by it is retarded.
>>64530192 I could go into more details why the answer is "no", but consider this: Luke never once uses a lightsaber on an enemy in A New Hope. He trains with it in a few scenes, he shoots some storm troopers with a blaster, and he's a talented pilot. But he never uses the light saber on anyone, much less defeat a trained dark jedi in a 1 on 1 duel. He doesn't do anything more than practice with it a little because that's all he's ready for.
not my problem if you're too retarded to pay attention to the obvious signposting
or did you think the constant references to luke's academy, the random flashbacks/forwards and rey inexplicably fucking hightailing it as soon as she saw a lightsaber were just there to pad out the script
>>64531461 >Mentioning in a subtle way about the multiplying of dankepic maymays that are offspring danker maymays posted multiple times a day and overdone to the point of daily 80% board proliferation makes it reddit.
>>64532357 It honestly feels like those faggots did not even watch ANH. Luke barely does anything but whine until the Death Star assault and even then he has to be bailed out by Han at the last moment. He's carried by Obi Wan and Han the entire movie and it's a big reason why Han became the more iconic character at first
>>64532472 >It honestly feels like those faggots did not even watch ANH
They clearly didn't, considering everything you mentioned. Interestingly, these same people were gloating about how much more tough and badass Rey was compared to Luke until everyone started calling her a Mary Sue. Now they're backtracking like a motherfucker and claiming Luke was super perfect in ANH.
>>64530192 >needs help from obi-wan when dealing with rando aliens at a bar >needs help from obi-wan when negotiating with han solo >needs help from han/leia when dealing with storm troopers on the death star >gets saved by obi-wan when he sacrificed himself >can't use a light saber for shit >can't use the force for shit except to make a shot that you could have made with any targeting computer >nobody likes luke except for R2D2/C3PO/obi-wan >is so bad at shooting tie fighters that he gets cocky because he manages to hit one
And that's just the first movie. Let's not mention the fact that he gets blown the fuck out in the climax of episodes 5 and 6 and the only reason why the resistance wins is because of shit everybody else does including his daddy which deals with the emperor.
Not to mention he spends the majority of episode 5 specifically training in the force and STILL isn't that great at it.
>>64534991 >Rey gets a small pep talk >Rey fucks up >Rey gets into trouble >Rey gets out of trouble in the most bullshit way imaginable >Rey does more bullshit things >Rey gets help escaping at the very end after the bad guy is defeated
>>64535239 The only time Luke gets out of trouble in a bullshit way is when he jumps into the abyss after the I am your father reveal and is inexplicably sucked into one of those tunnels.
Come to think about it, Luke wasn't as important in the OT as one can think. He blows up the Death Star after being a whiny tag along faggot for the entire ANH. In ESB, he goes back to save his friends but he gets his shit pushed in and Leia and Han escape without any help from him. In RotJ, he saves the day in Jabba's Palace and later on his role becomes irrelevant in the grand scheme of things since the rebels blow up the Death Star and Sheev/Vader would have died in that explosion even if Luke did not exist so the only thing he achieves there is completing Anakin's redemption arch.
So, in the entire trilogy, he saves the day when blowing up the Death Star (with major help from Han) and at Jabba's Palace. Other than that, the Rebels would have won the war without him.
>>64530192 nah luke was the culmination of the last two movies. hes about obi wan status. he's obviously troubled and is reaching into the dark side too, which is fucking great when you see him choke pigs like his dad. you can sense hes not doing too well. He's the culmination of the heros journey and the best thing is is that he still loses to sheev. theres always a bigger fish
>>64535490 >In ESB, he goes back to save his friends but he gets his shit pushed in and Leia and Han escape without any help from him. Hell not only does he not help them before the end Leia has to save him.
Han was Lucas somewhat shameless self insert. He hated Hollywood and wanted to go "solo"
>no mystical force that controls my destiny. >literally coming out of nowhere to save the day in the original movie >chewie is literally modeled after GL's dog in the 70s sitting in the passenger seat of his old car.
While I could see that there's an argument to be made that he's a self insert you really can't say he's a mary sue.
Nobody particularly likes Han except for chewie and Lando. Han is a great pilot but it makes sense considering he's had a lot of experience being a pilot. He's an ok fighter but nothing amazing. He doesn't particularly do anything that well except for piloting his ship.
>>64537208 The guy he's responding to isn't wrong though. Luke isn't supposed to be an amazing pilot. He also doesn't do anything particularly amazing. The death star wasn't hard to destroy because it's impossible to make that shot. (Luke specifically says that the shot isn't that insane during the rebel meeting before the assault on the death star. The death star is hard to destroy because getting to that point you need to fly through a gauntlet of shit that can destroy you and the ONLY reason why he also doesn't fail is because Han comes in at the last moment and saves his ass.
Now if you want to make the argument that it makes no sense for Luke to be flying an X-wing at all during that battle you'd have a good point considering the rebels almost definitely has more pilots than they do spacecraft and they'd want to send their best and most seasoned pilots that they have. Then you'd have a pretty good point.
>>64537295 Is it possible that we just haven't been told about her past history? It was probably done on purpose to keep people talking until the next movie. Luke knows who she is, and I suspect others do as well.
>>64537532 well in the cut scene from ANH biggs basically begs Luke to join the rebellion because they need pilots, and Luke spent years flying a T-16 which is the ship the Rebellion uses to train X-Wing pilots (both made by Incom)
>>64530192 Nah, Luke was Shinji Ikari levels of whiny in IV. He grew up and it's fun to see him grow as the series progresses. Rey was kinda bland. I mean she had her moments but I never felt like I could relate to her as a viewer because she was just kinda there. No context just kinda there. I was hoping for more personality from her.
>>64531343 Youre such a fucking retard, he was literally useless, got relegated to the end of the line AFTER PORKINS, he didn't even shot anyone in the x wing, he was about to die if it wasn't for han. Holy shit the disney shills
>>64542181 Don't get caught up in the term "Mary Sue"
The problem is that she's an inexplicably overpowered character who is good at everything, and better than other characters at the niches that those other characters should be better at. She's supposed to be at the beginning of a heroic coming of age story, but in part 1 of 3 she already has no weakness or flaws that she must overcome, so her character arc is already ruined, unless she turns evil. Considering that TFA is basically ANH - The Remake, maybe Ep VIII will be ROTS - The Remake and turn her into Darth Dochter
>>64530192 >rekt by sandpeople >has to have ben mind trick stormtroopers to avoid being discovered >has to have ben save him from bar alien >has to find help to leave planet >gets shot by training probe >has to have Leah figure out a way to rescue herself >can't save ben from dying >gets shot in X wing >has to have wedge save him >has to have Han save him so he has a clear shot with a backseat force ghost helping him out even though a targeting computer could probably still get the job done but he's an ace shot back home so go for it nah fuck you next you're going to claim flash gordon is one
>Was Luke a Mary Sue after two movies of training? It takes some serious desperation to come up with this. And even then he would have either died or fallen to the dark side in the climax if not for Vader's crisis of conscience.
>>64539220 >Shinji Ikari levels of whiny Not even close, senpai. From the outset Luke lusts after adventure. He complains to his dad because he feels like there's more to life than a moisture farm. He annoys some of the other characters because of his ignorance, but he's always willing to lend a hand and take risks. Unlike Shinji, he's not defined by his social anxiety and self-degradation.
heres my problem with Rey, because of the way she is written every other character becomes irrelevant, in the OT luke has Leia and Han to lean on, because he needs it at times, this makes him a character able to grow and become great. Anakin has Obi-Wan to lean on and learn from, this makes it so he is not, despite everyone telling him he's the fucking chosen one, able to win all the damn time. Rey has Han solo a veteran fighter pilot, Chewie a veteran savage and Finn a trained soldier to lean on and get supported by. But she doesn't need anyone, ever. so Finn is made pointless Han becomes funny man reference guy and chewie becomes slapstick bear. every character serves only to further hammer in the fact that Rey is the greatest ever at everything and she dont need no one. Finn the character who should become her most trusted friend and capable ally is immediately bumped down to comic relief. Rey has no growth other than watch this character go from powerful and completely independent to over the top savior of the galaxy doing everything by herself. she is literally just like a my japanese anime main character and the movie and the sequels will suffer for it unless its changed
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