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Interstellar is a paradox AMIRITE?? Prove...
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Interstellar is a paradox AMIRITE?? Prove me wrong then m9.

The bootstrap paradox is what type of paradox i think it is:

"The bootstrap paradox, or ontological paradox, is a paradox of time travel that refers to scenarios whereby items or information are passed from the future to the past, which in turn become the same items or information that are subsequently passed from the past to the future - this creates a circularity of cause-effect such that the items or information have no discernible origin. Thus, the paradox raises the ontological questions of where, when and by whom the items were created or the information derived." - wkikiped

A funny example is to consider how a chicken cannot send an egg back in time that becomes itself because there would have been no chicken to then send the egg in the first place.

In the film this translates to cooper not being able to send the data back in time to tell himself to go to the NASA facility in the first place.

Pic related: your tears on realising your life is a sham. I'm right and the movie wrong.
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Christ almighty, nobody changed the past in Interstellar you mong.

The messages he sent were interpreted and followed at the present time on Earth. The only shenanigans that were present were basically alternate dimensions plastered together (which is basically part and parcel of time travel)
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Bump. Surely someone is intelligent enough to challenge this.
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Just ONE question..

Im high as fuck so excuse me in advance

But if an event is stuck in a time travel paradox, will it last forever?

What about when the death of the univere occurs in our reality, our timeline, would it affect the paradoxed event?

Fuuuuuuuuck im stoned
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He told himself to go to NASA so he could tell himself to go to NASA, yes. He also tried to stop himself from going, but couldn't do it.

He also proposed that in the future humanity will transcend its mortal form and will create a wormhole so it could survive to transcend its mortal form.
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>>51205986

Or is each literation of the paradox also a paralell universe in which the "you" gets replaced by your timetravel persona and everything is like in our universe, thus preventing the ultimate fate of the universe or some shit like that FUCK

BR A VO NOLAN
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>>51205920
>nobody change the past

Did you even watch the film you autist?

Cooper sends a message back in time to his daughter and himself so they find the NASA facility in the first place.
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>>51205986
In such a loop, it's confined within limited time frame. Ie you, say, you receive blueprints for time machine on Monday and on Sunday you complete it and send yourself blueprints. Those blueprints will circle forever with no creation or destruction point, but on the next Monday everything will carry on without them.
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>>51205946
Humans in the far future can manipulate time and space (this includes dimensions) like a physical object. Like you would open a bottle of water to drink, they can manipulate things anywhere, at any time, in any dimension.

HOWEVER, because time and space is so fucking vast, you'd be essentially looking for the needle in the haystack, only if the haystack was as big as the observable universe.

So you use cooper like you would use a bookmark on a REALLY massive book. Only in this case, you manipulate his path up till that point so he can find the turning point of history himself and change it.
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>>51206059

So TIME is the fourth dimension that exists outside our 3rd dimension, the universe?
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>>51206020
No. Just no.

The point of the paradox is its circular and so it can't even start itself because there's no 'entry point'.

Don't start talking about that 5th dimensional being shit either because they wouldn't have existed in the first place without cooper saving humanity which couldn't happen because paradox
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>>51206059
Exactly, and that will form it's own dimension which can be manipulated by the future-humans.

>>51206028
Actually you're right, my bad. But that still didn't cause a paradox.
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>>51206105
I have no fucking idea, I'm not a fucking time traveller. For what I care, time might not even exist.
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They made a mistake in the film. When Murphy goes to visit her brother at the farm house. They are eating nothing but corn, to show how bad the blight has gotten. Though the problem and mistake in this is they show corn bread and fritters. Both of which are at least half wheat flour. Wheat of course in the movie died off 7 years before the start of the movie. So wheat flour 30 years after the plant died off would have been an impossibility or a stupidly expensive luxury.
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>>51205375
Even if you were right (you're not), why would that be unrealistic?

We have no idea as to the time travel rules in our universe. This kind of paradox might be able to occur and it'd be weird and illogical but thats what happens when you mess with cause and effect.
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>>51206197
How would you know it's not pure corn? Or corn with sawdust?
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Yes from our perspective the film is a bootstrap paradox. Nothing wrong with that.
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>>51206212
Paradox is something that makes perfect sense when you use logic, reason and math or just happens in reality, but goes against your intuition.

Like yes, time loops. It's not how things should work according to our linear worldview, but it should work in time travel.
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>>51206028
But nobody did change the past. There is only one timeline that remains consistent throughout the film. Your idea that something is "wrong" is based on the idea that time travel is, or in the case in this movie communication through time, and never will be possible. The movie attempts to provide a scenario in which it may make sense.

So your grief is that it is science fiction, not that something is plausible or not.

Your beef here is with the actual limits of our scientific understanding, not anything "wrong" in the movie.
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>>51206221
it all so would have required eggs and milk. the baseball game scene implies that they have all gone vegetarian because they can't spare farm land to feed animals for meat.
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>>51206212
>We have no idea as to the time travel rules in our universe

Yes we do.... Relativity enables 'time travel' but you still can't go backwards -> film wrong

Way to one up my logical reasoning with speculative BS.
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>>51206291
>time travel is, or in the case in this movie communication through time, and never will be possible
badly worded
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>>51206289
NO!

In concept the time loop makes sense yes. But in reality it can't initiate itself in the first place so it can't exist.
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>>51206370
If future could affect the past then everything we know about cause and effect is wrong now.

Your way of reasoning is like trying to add phlogiston to periodic table.
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>There's science fiction in a science fiction movie
ayyy lmao

Are people going to nitpick God being in Exodus as well?
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TARS, or at least an AI descended from TARS, is the the 5th dimensional being that saves Cooper and humanity.

TARS was in the black hole's time dilation field for decades longer then Cooper, relatively. He was able to get the quantum data and do all the gravity math.
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>>51206445
I just know Exodus would suck because you shouldn't add omnipotent god in your epic movies.

It's one thing to worship someone and another to make him a character in your stories.
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>>51206291
Cooper in the future 20 or so whatever years ahead sends a coded message back to himself to tell himself to go to NASA.

If thats not affecting the past I don't know what is.

It couldn't happen in the first place though anyway because of the paradox. Hence film is logically BS
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>>51206316
>can't go backwards
the whole point is that we, third dimensional beings, cant but superior entities allowed Cooper via the tesseract to interact with his daughter at an infinite number of dimensions/timelines
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>>51206489
Ok imagine you are an advanced intelligence and your history says X and Y happened because of some future beings made it happen. You then realize that if you want to exist you need to use your ability to manipulate gravity backwards through time to make sure X and Y happen. You exist because you made your past happen.
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>>51206526
No because those superior 5th dimensional beings that are the future us are reliant on cooper saving humanity through the paradox in the first place.

The paradox therefore stops them ever coming to exist.
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>>51206456
Actually both TARS and Cooper would've crushed into dust when coming even close to the black hole and everything from that point is as valid as the whole LOST tv series
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>>51206595
Except 5th dimensional beings intervened
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>>51206489
In Jurassic Park they would never have had the DNA of dinosaurs extracted from mosquitos in amber because DNA has a half life of around 500 years. Therefore Jurassic Park sucks!
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>>51206580
Thats the bootstrap paradox you moron.

Chicken can't send an egg back in time to become itself
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>>51206595
Actually, they would be torn apart, wouldn't they? In free fall weight does not exist, but your lover ends falls a bit faster then your upper end.

It doesn't matter when you are on Earth and less then 2 meters long, but if you are near something massive or just very big yourself, you might get torn apart.
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>>51206644
DNA can exist for thousands of years under the right conditions. They are right now trying to clone wolly mammoths from frozen mammoth bodies that died tens of thousands of years ago.

but yeah 60 million year old DNA isn't happening.
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>>51206649
Chicken can't send egg back in time period. Because time travel is not possible.

Assuming it's possible, it would be able to send its egg back in time to become itself.
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>>51206644
>didn't mention impossibility of entering a black hole in original post
>Obviously doesn't care about material impossibilities
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>>51206593
thats what a third dimensional being is forced to think but for 5th (or 4th idk) dimensional beings time is not presented linear, everything is happening at the same moment, every single possibility coexists and they can freely 'move' through them
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>>51206724
>>51206649
The first fucking chicken egg wasn't laid by a chicken you clowns
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>>51206775
Is chicken egg a chicken egg because chicken laid it, or because chicken will hatch from it?
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>>51206724
Yes it is.
>me traveling 99% speed of light
>time traveling very slow compared to earth
>slow down again
>find that my daughter is older than me
>MFW I've travelled into the future
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>>51206755
Dr. Manhattan had the power to see multiple futures but he only saw one because he kept using that future he saw as guidelines to what he should be doing. because he kept doing as what he saw. the future never changed. he had limitless power but a limited mind. which is also why he has a small flaccid penis. it is a symbol of his impotence.
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>>51206851
Kek

Great book. But separate universe and separate rules
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>>51206755
No because those superior 5th dimensional beings that are the future us are reliant on cooper saving humanity through the paradox in the first place.

The paradox therefore stops them ever coming to exist.
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>>51206815
Then suspended animation time travel?
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The water world planet would have been impossible.

If it was in that much gravity to dilate time that severely. It would have been torn apart by gravity already. It also would have been nearly impossible to land on. Because all your data on the location of the planet would be 24 years in the past. you would have had to calculate to find where the planet actual is and not where it appears to be. then keep compensating as you get closer and the lag gets less and less.
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>>51206935
Yes but only in the forwards direction

My problem is that even if you could go back into the past you couldn't do what the movie says you can because of paradox
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>>51206976
yeh it pisses me off so much when the toys start talking in toy story.
Hate that film
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>>51206985
Fuck you you goddam faggot. If you can travel into past, then everything you know about cause and effect is wrong. Which could just as well mean you can have things creating itself because fuck you and fuck your causality. Or perhaps you can't? Who knows? I don't, because there was never an actual time travel experiment.

Is this that hard to understand?
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In a timeline where cooper does not go into space and save the human race, humans ultimately find another solution. These humans became advanced enough to bend time and space and helped out cooper to speed the process along.
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>>51206915
Again, youre seeing time as a line, the point is that those beings have always existed and will always exist, the only reason why I posted that Dr Manhattan picture was because it was creatively explained in Watchmen how does a 4th dimensional being feel, which is very different from a 3rd dimensional being, and even more, it is actually impossible for us to even grasp how would a 4th dimensional being interpret time, just as how impossible would be for a 2 dimensional being understand a third dimension. But in watchmen they did a well job in being thought provocking.
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>>51207115
why the fuck bother helping cooper in the first place then?! leave the chump to die. who cares about him when you've already saved yourself.

THINK
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>>51207181
it was the robots. humanity never saved it self. it was AI like TARS and CASE.
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>>51207169
but to become a higher dimensional being you first need to survive being a normal dimensional being
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>>51207181
Because if the process was sped along large amounts of time could be saved in the span it took them to become advanced enough to do all the science mumbo jumbo. This is because the humans no longer have to focus on survival and can go back to doing what they normally do. Because of this, humans would be even MORE advanced at present time than they were when they helped out cooper. Of course, they would all probably cease to exist, but I like to imagine people that advanced exist more for the greater good than themselves.
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>>51207229
yeh no
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>>51207252
yes, and the point is that it happened and it will always happen
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>>51207300
but it can't happen if a paradox stops your predecessors form giving rise to your existence
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>implying I give a fuck about the scientific aspects of a movie and not the human elements
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>>51207335
your predecessors always became 5th dimensional beings
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>>51205375
ITT: uneducated people talking about Ph.D. level science
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>>51207406
not without being saved from the earth
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>>51207438
Great pod racing.
0/10 improvement to discussion
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>>51207284
imagine in the original unaltered timeline that humanity dies out and so does most of life due to the blight. AI doesn't need air or food. So they continue to exist on earth and gain in intelligence. they spread out in the universe and eventually gain 5th dimensional thinking. They miss the humans because it is part of their core programming. So they use the super massive black hole to create the worm hole and then the tesseract.
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>>51207439
they were saved from Earth and will always become 5th dimensional bingos
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>>51207501
How
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>>51207491
>They miss the humans because it is part of their core programming
they were programmed to love

OLE
L
E
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>>51207542
by Cooper
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>>51205375
when you accept that time isn't linear, then you have to accept that causation no longer exists

They had the "quantum data" because they've always had it, no other reason. Free will and agency cease to exist when you accept that time isn't linear.
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>>51207564
Who couldn't have saved them in the first place because bootstrap paradox.
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>>51206246
Well from MY perspective, the jedi are evil
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>>51207546
Three Laws of Robotics.
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>>51207652
My perspective you're a faggot
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>>51207652

your mum deals absolutes
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>>51207649
Which leads us to the beginning of the thread creating a loopost
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>>51206815
>look at my watch
>the second hand ticks
>MFW I've traveled into the future
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>>51207590
why bother saving humanity then
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>>51207723
because they had always saved humanity

It wasn't a choice
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>>51206489
Of course its affecting what we consider to be the past but nothing was changed or out of order so its logically consistent .

The whole point of the movie is that time may not be a linear thing and that our idea of the "past" is not an non-malleable construct.
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>>51207719
>type 4chan.org into the URL bar
>press enter
>MFW I've traveled into the 4chans
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>>51207649
you're assuming causation in an environment where causation no longer exists

In a world with non-linear time travel, you can have an effect without any cause whatsoever
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>>51207590
>Free will and agency cease to exist when you accept that time isn't linear.

This
Time is just a blob that's already laid out. The Interstellar characters are just seeing in play out linearly, while riding along on a conveyor belt
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If the 5th dimensional humans could influence time in a non-linear fashion, why didn't they kill Hitler?
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can someone explain how a lady with a bucket full of human DNA can create a whole colony in some random planet?
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>>51208054

she puts thems in her vagina
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>>51208054
They use the embryos instead of fucking eachother, to ensure genetic diversity

And it grows exponentially from there
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>>51207796
I can accept that and thats fine when you've made it to 5th dimensional being status.

But the problem arises when you can't get there in the first place.
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>>51208192
They didn't have to "get there" because they were always there. Cause and effect don't exist.
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>>51208113
but you'd need medics, hospitals, geneticists, food (what about animals?), etc to even give birth to a single generation.
>>
ITT: niggers who haven't seen Primer.
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>>51208298
I assume there was plant and animal life on the last planet.

Her robot buddy probably delivered the babbies
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>>51205375
>A funny example is to consider how a chicken cannot send an egg back in time that becomes itself because there would have been no chicken to then send the egg in the first place
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>>51208283
Should have cured aids or exploded the moon while they were at it.
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>>51208594
you seem to think they have a choice in the matter
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When you remove linear time from the equation, the universe literally becomes a shitty deua ex machina script.

Maybe that's why Nolan likes doing it so much.
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>>51208731
>shitty deus ex machina
THIS THIS THIS
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>>51206028
Did you watch the film? That was what happened at the beginning. It didn't get changed.
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chickens can't time travel
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>>51205375
I love how you're screaming this like it's some big revelation you came to and not supposed to be obvious. It's a closed-loop time travel story, those are always resolved in a paradox. Deal with it.
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>>51208050
They thought he had some pretty good ideas
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>>51208959
maybe in the original timeline, Jews destroy the universe
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>>51209037
but in this movie there are no alternative timelines
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>>51209078
the jews had capabilities beyond those of the 5th dimensional beings
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>>51208921
>resolved in paradox
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