>tfw Palpatine could have had a natural transition into his deformed appearance but Lucas changed his mind
Is any other film-maker as big a hack as George Lucas? Why did he discard so many good ideas?
Growing up, I always assumed the Emperor had become excessively beetle-browed, hunched, and pale through decades of using dark sorcery.
I also thought Vader had become steadily more mechanical due to battle injuries acquired over the years, rather than getting all his cybernetics in one idiotic scene.
the palpatine change is just another example of lucas feeling that he must explain every detail.
it isn't important, the audience has an imagination and can fit in the details.
the biggest groaner, outside of the force being a molecule, was when yoda explains to kenobi that he must learn to become a ghost jedi
fucking fuck that was painful, even for a non-sw fanboy.
>when yoda explains to kenobi that he must learn to become a ghost jedi
Huh, when did that happen? I recently saw that seemingly popular tear down of the prequels - by that guy who pretends to be a psychopath and kill women - and he didn't mention this.
Me too. I even had a book (pic related) that basically said that about the emperor.
At the end of Episode 3 Yoda says he has found a way to communicate with Qui Gon. He was originally supposed to have a scene but Liam Neeson broke his leg and couldnt film it or something
>the biggest groaner, outside of the force being a molecule, was when yoda explains to kenobi that he must learn to become a ghost jedi
I agree, that scene was retarded. Also, it doesn't make any fucking sense. At the end of Return of the Jedi we see Anakin's ghost even though he was never trained to do that.
There was actually a line in the novelization of one of the OT films, based on Lucas' notes, that revealed Vader's injuries were from falling into a pit of lava. It's actually one of the only things about the backstory that Lucas didn't change over the decades.
Never fails to amuse.
>Star Wars 8: Eight for Aduba-3 (First identified as Chair)
>mfw the image in the OP is directed at me after I pointed out how it would have made infinitely more sense if Palpatine transitioned into 'the Emperor' fluidly instead of how Lucas did it
I might rewatch Episode II in a bit, just for how fucking evil Palpatine looks
It genuinely creeps me out more than I can explain
Ian McDiarmid fucking nailed it in every movie.
I think Lucas unintentionally made the character brilliant, in my opinion Palpatine is the true protagonist for the prequels, and only becomes the antagonist for the last movie.
Once you watch the prequels through the mindset that Palpatine is the good guy, you really can't go back.
because palpatine was using his powers to change his appearance, using the dark side affects your body in many ways like giving people yellow eyes, after windus attack he just stopped hiding his true form
Personally, I think George Lucas was smart for going back on the concept. Maintaining the idea that he looked like an approachable, kindly old man allows him to be more seductive. It makes more sense for Anakin to feel comfortable around him, rather than have us roll around to the third movie and watch Anakin align himself with some shady looking monster.
The utterly fucking baffling and really sad thing about it all is that Lucas seemed to be a genuinely skilled filmmaker judging by his first 2 works: THX 1138 and American Graffiti.
Then came Star Wars:
Pretty much everything that made the original trilogy so memorable and great films turned out to be because of designers and crew were able to convince him to stray from his original vision. From Chewbacca to Threepio/R2, Jabba, Han, etc.
90% of it was great in spite of Lucas.
And then he got full control of the prequels, showing just how disastrous a creator he somehow was after making 2 seriously great films and sort-of making a legendary trilogy. This George Lucas was the one who, when the developers of The Force Unleashed wanted a Darth title for the protagonist and asked him for this exclusive opportunity, without any irony proposed "Darth Icky" or "Darth Insanius."
Those video game developers abandoned all hopes for a sanctioned Darth-titled protagonist.
They abandoned this for the overlord who tried to justify the backlash against the prequels by simply brushing it off by saying "these whiners don't want kid-friendly, funny stuff in Star Wars."
They abandoned this for the overlord who with the previous statement some-fucking-how, of course impossibly, implied that he hadn't even seen or understood the original trilogy.
...and I'm not even particularly fond of Star Wars.
I cant believe the article includes "appearances" of chairs.
>I remember asking my dad around the end of the 80's and he knew he has mechanical limbs up around the joints.
No fucking idea how he knew.
Besides the novelizations, you can actually see bits of Vader's robotic skeleton in ROTJ when he gets electrocuted.
They could have been subtle about it. He doesn't have to look like monster in episode III, just a bit more pale and wrinkly, and maybe give him yellow eyes towards the end. They did with Anakin so why not?
A subtle change like this being the result of the lightning would have been a lot better
Same. To this day I remember my mom telling me that Vader got disfigured in lava and for the life of me I could not have figured out how she knew that. I'd kinda started believing I'd just dreamed it.
i always kind of wished yoda fought anakin and obi wan fought vader. i dont know why but always thought itd make it that much more badass when yoda tells luke about his dad.
It's still magic. The Force never changed. Midichlorians aren't the Force, and they even say so in TPM.
Hell, the idea that the Force has a biological side to it has been a thing since the OT.
>My family is strong in the Force. My father had it. I have it. My... sister, has it.
The only thing is, much like the rest of the PT, the ideas were there, but the execution was lacking.
>tfw want to run an Edge of the Empire game because it's a neat system that feels very Star-Warsy
>tfw I'll get nerds saying BUT IN MUH COMPUTER GAMES, THIS HAPPENS, CHECK WOOKIEEPEDIA
Star Wars has such a cool setting and I love that they went for the fringes of the Galaxy during the Original Trilogy with this game, but god damn does this piss me off.
Obliterating most of the canon was the best thing Lucasfilm ever did.
I don't necessarily agree. George's problems with the PT were mostly the fact that he didn't have anybody to say no to him (FUCK Rick McCallum with a bent, rusty spoon), nobody to say "no, George, that's a terrible idea."
So we've got awesome sets (a surprising number of them actually, there's more physical sets and miniatures in the prequels than there are in the OT), but then we have some stuff that's just plain bizarre - like mentioned above how there's no actors wearing clone trooper armor at all in the prequels, or the scenes where the lighting angles don't match or the CGI just plain doesn't look good.
Whereas, Orci and Kurtzman wrote horrible films and JJ didn't give any fucks at all, and most of the rest of Abrams' other works are pretty but dull.
The only things I can really say for sure that are strong points in favor of Abrams Star Wars are
>John Williams doing music
>Lawrence Kasdan co-writing
Force sensitivity is fine. The problem is when you reduce it to mitochondria or something.
Obi-Wan says Anakin's dad was a good star pilot. He hears Luke isn't a bad pilot himself. Piloting runs in the family.
That's how the Force should work in this context. It just runs in the family. Doesn't matter whether it's microscopic organisms or chromosomes or which personality traits get passed down. It's simply something that runs in the family, reasons be damned.
I still remember seeing Episode 1 at the midnight showing. I was 12 there was sooooo much damn hype. Everyone at the theater was dressed up, or wearing some star wars t shirt. As soon as Along time ago in a galaxy far far away came...came on i dont think i heard that much cheering in my life.
Slowly the theater got quieter and quieter. As the credits came on there were a bunch of excited little kids. Then the rest were adults who just got up looking liked theyd gotten raped.
Some lady dressed up in Jedi rodes was crying.
Best film experience of my life. It was like being on the journey of the titanic or something.
But again, midichlorians aren't the Force. They're indicators, that's it. Qui-Gon claims they're symbionts, that they're middle-men between us and the Force, but that's just his own opinion, dumbing things down so Anakin might understand, and not necessarily shared by other scholars/biologists.
Whether they're there because someone is Force sensitive or someone is Force sensitive because they're there is never explained, even in the now-defunct EU.
Also, George had the basic idea for Force sensitives and what would eventually become midichlorians all the way back in '77, but decided against using them at that point.
And the EU had scanning devices they used to find Force sensitives - and that was before the prequels.
Hell, the Kotor series basically has the same thing with your face getting nastier the more evil you get, if you choose darkside answers.
Vader: Whiney teen with robot leg extensions.
>but that's just his own opinion, dumbing things down so Anakin might understand, and not necessarily shared by other scholars/biologists
I don't remember all that information in the movies. Where did they mention this?
I've read the totally neutral Wookieepedia article too. I'm not sure I buy the idea they were around since '77, the source was some book published a few years ago. Lucas loves to pretend it was all JUST AS PLANNED (though to his credit, he has done a lot of that really well).
Force sensitivity should transcend something detectable in the body. I can tell how much muscle mass someone has and work out how strong they are. I shouldn't be able to tell how many midi-chlorians someone has and how in-tune with the Force they are.
So they could sell both versions of Palpatine as different figures.
it's so easy to take lucas ideas and make them interesting or workable...
what if in episode 3 it is somehow revealed medichloreans don't indicate force? what if the failure of the jedi was hubris and over confidence? the jedi learn only too late the force is unknowable and undefinable which leads to their demise?
yoda hints that the jedi are too complacent in phantom, this fundamental misunderstanding of the jedi and their adopted role of vice cops in the galaxy leading to their failure (and yoda returning to his planet to reinvest in the roots of the force) would have transitioned nicely into the original three films.
if lucas just had one or two more drafts the new trilogy might have been watchable
Not directly, but remember he's not an expert on these things and generally regarded poorly by his peers because he does things his own way and holds firm to his own beliefs, disregarding the council and defying their orders.
He DOES say that he's checking the kid's blood for the midichlorians because he suspects something, and it's not exactly uncommon for adults to simplify complex things so kids can understand them.
the absolute only reason he did the blood test was that he was doing virgin birth origin and didn't want to upset religious people. he didn't want anakin to have a father and he decided to go with magic molecules. he made this up around three weeks before filming, there is no EU in his brain
>what if the failure of the jedi was hubris and over confidence?
Happens in the RotS novel. Actually a lot of the EU centered around the prequels goes into the problems with the Jedi.
>He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil
The last time Obi Wan saw Vader he was roasting like a BBQ chicken on that lava planet after he fucked up his shit with the high ground.
Did Obi Wan have like some kind of Galactic Internet in his tatooine mud hut that filled him in on Vaders and the Empires exploits? Tatooine is like on the edge of the universe and I presume Obi Wan never left the planet once he dropped Luke off, he had no fucking space ship in Ep IV.
yes actually. its called the HoloNet. at the end of the book Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader, Obi-Wan basically sees him on TV at a bar, hears the name Vader and Drunkenly talks to Qui-Gon Booze's force ghost confirming it to him.
Obi-Wan knew that Anakin became Vader.
He clearly wasn't always hiding in his hut and would have hung around places like Mos Eisley. Word gets around, and I'm sure Vader was used as a face of fear for the Empire.
Also they still have TVs.
EU works to fix the problems of the movies.
that doesnt help the movies, just ease hardcore fans feelings.
prequels are embarrassing shite
but so was st: into darkness, so fans better tighten that anus and pray to the great wookie of life day abrams doesnt fuck it up
>A spoon was a utensil that could be used by sapient beings to consume food. It also served the purpose of stirring a drink. General Kenobi was known to have used a spoon to stir his tarine tea while he talked with General Whorm Loathsom during the Battle of Christophsis.
GEORGE LUCAS IS AN INEPT WRITER, AND A SUBPAR CREATOR WITH UNREMARKABLE IMAGINATION.
NEITHER THE SITH, NOR THE JEDI WERE EFFICIENT IN THEIR METHODS, NOR WERE EITHER OF THEM ETHICALLY VIRTUOUS.
IRONICALLY, AS A CONSEQUENCE OF GEORGE LUCAS' INEPTITUDE, THE SITH WERE THE ONES WHO STROVE TO ACHIEVE AN END THAT MOST APPROXIMATED ABSOLUTE BALANCE OF "THE FORCE", AS OPPOSED TO THE JEDI WHO MERELY SOUGHT TO PASSIVELY REMEDY THE SYMPTOMS CONSEQUENTIAL TO THE IMBALANCE, RATHER THAN STRIVING TO RESOLVE THEIR CAUSES AND PRECIPITATE ACTUAL BALANCE.
THE JEDI WERE INEPTLY PASSIVE, THE SITH WERE PERVERSELY ACTIVE; FOR THE JEDI, BALANCE MEANT PERPETUATION OF CUSTOMS, FOR THE SITH, BALANCE MEANT ABSOLUTE POWER.
THE TRITE LINE SPOKEN BY "OBI WAN KENOBI" TO "ANAKIN SKYWALKER", IN "EPISODE III":
>"You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. You were to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness."
OVERTLY INDICATES THE JEDl CHAUVINISM.
George Lucas logic makes no fucking sense.
His mentality would explain why he sold it to Disney.
I don't think he sold SW to Disney because he sees SW as a franchise for children, but because hes a petty man-child who sold it out of complete spite in response to the utter backlash he faced by nearly everybody, universally.
the rejection he faced probably hit him hard and hurt him enough to lead to his retirement.
how the fuck is anyone suppose to separate the two when the gray over so much?
Darth Bane is legend, but he also appears in the Clone Wars, so hes therefore also canon. and since hes canon his backstory would imply shit like Darth Revan, or Korriban a character and planet thats linked to Bane (Revan was a major influence on Bane becoming a Sith even though they never living at once) which would then imply all this shit like KOTOR therefore did happen.
im no doctor, but i think Lucas has early signs of dementia. his shit makes no goddamn sense.
in another 5-10 years, we're gonna here a diagnosis after he tries to make a Willow sequel with Peter Dinklage. actually...
He started to lose his mind during the early to mid 80s.
The only reason the rest of Star Wars and Indiana Jones ended up being worth a damn was due to Steven Spielberg tempering his slowly creeping insanity.
But without Spielberg's steady hand, Lucas has been a rambling loose cannon shooting himself in the foot ever since.
I've been watching Clone Wars scenes which feature Sidious fighting/annihilating people
It's a shame that neither the prequels nor the Clone Wars managed to recreate the passionately evil and epically mystical factor of The Emperor, instead relying on making Sidious a mix between The Joker and a ninja.
Blows the whole "I planned it from the beginning" shit out of the water. He had to make Palpatine's scarring Mace Windu's "fault" so Anakin could be at least a little bit sympathetic during his turn to the Dark Side.
I remember thinking Vader was just one fallen Jedi among many that ended up working for the Empire, he just happened to be skillful enough to end up as the Emperor's right hand.
The prequels made him out to be the lynchpin in everything, the single greatest factor in the Republic falling. Maybe it's just me but that made the SW universe seem a lot smaller and more contrived.
I liked him better when I didn't know he was hand-picked by the Emperor to be the Galactic Anti-Christ.
>The prequels made him out to be the lynchpin in everything, the single greatest factor in the Republic falling.
Palpatine would still grab power no matter what. He had the pre-separatist Trade Federation already practically revolting while posing as Sidious.
If Anakin wasn't found he'd use some other way to start the civil war and then whoever wins he leads that side anyway.
Pretty much the only reason the jedi even knew he's evil is because he flat out said to Anakin he's a sith lord.
In fact Anakin turning to the dark side and then eventually tossing Palpatine down the elevator shaft is pretty much the only way Palpatine could be beaten.
> the single greatest factor in the Republic falling
Not really. Sidious could have wiped out the Jedi with or without him, and the clones did most of the dirty work. He merely wanted Anakin as his apprentice.
I hope you mean the 2D one, the 3D series is kinda bleh. The 2D one was excellent though, it managed to capture the ol' Star Wars magic that was missing from the prequels themselves.
I had always thought that the 'Clone War' was fought between cloned Jedi and normal Jedi. Palpatine secretly cloned evil Jedi and set them loose on the galaxy, destroying entire planets. The Republic would have been therefore open to the idea of exterminating the Jedi because normal people could not tell them apart.
>implying he was just his "apprentice"
So george lucas meeting the same fate as paul McCartney confirmed?
It also could have come from the fact that he claimed that Plagueis learned how to create life from force, and thus could be assumed that Sidious had learned how to use this to return his youth.
I think this stems from the stupid, blatant idea of a "Light Side". The Jedi just do stuff, in the movies, like manipulating objects. That's pretty neutral.
I view it as the Dark Side being a corruption of the natural energy the Jedi focus on.
Because they didn't understand this.