/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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>>55381057
>Actual Question:

Talk about literally anything besides Mage. How about Genius? Or Changling? Or fucking Hunter? IS anyone even IN any campaigns right now, old world or new?

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>>55381057
The smell they make after they have been vaporized by my Schwifty ray gun

>>55381086
Fuck off.

Reasking from last thread, what is the worst Lodge in Forsaken?

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>>55381086
Fine I kind of want to play in a friends Beast game. Yes I know beast is shit but my friend is an excellent ST and if anyone can make Beast cool and fun it will be him. Anyway I like this picture for my Beast but have zero clue what family or atavisms or even hunger for it.

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>>55381098

>>55381057
>What's the best thing about Mage?

The new Awakening smell, of course.

>>55381086
I am trying to assemble a VtR1e oneshot for my friend's housewarming party.
I am pregenning characters for them to choose from, would I best served using the core book, or are there example pcs I can use for guidance?

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>>55381118
I really don't know much about Beast, tell me more about families and atavisms and I'll pitch you some ideas. And tell me more about your RP idea.

>>55381118
Well that's a Makara if I ever saw one.A solid deep sea baseline.
Can't help much past that.

>says he's posting genius art
>is really posting golden age sci-fi art

buddy, you're lame

>>55381149
In my experience pregens work best if they're done by template rather then exact character, so the players don't have to worry about getting it right.

For instance, make a Celerity focused vampire college girl and just label her "College Girl" with maybe an example name if the person wanting to play as her can't think of anything. And print at least 2 copies of each, so if two of your players go "Oh hey I want to be that person", they both can be speed-freak college girls.

And from there just think of some good stereotypes for whatever the theme of your one shot is. If you're familiar enough with the mechanics, I'd just make your own sheets as well, though I'm sure some example PCs exist somewhere if needed.

So, aimed spells essentially look like Harry Potter spells, right?

What's the practical difference between a technocrat mage (or son of ether) and a genius?

>>55381236
Genius don't use magic. Technocrats do.

So apparently there's a single massive faggot responsible for the state of this place.

Do we hire the mods for some mercenary work?

>>55381234
Yep except for things like fire ball, lightning etc.

>>55381236
One belongs in this thread, the other doesn't.

>>55381186
I'm just hunting for ideas.
Some people are familiar with gaming, some wth WoD in particular. My plan was to make characters with a wide range of personality archetypes, some negative, some positive, 15 in all, with the caveat that it is a blind pick up, and you play what you choose, period, even if it's something "bad", because no one sees themselves as the bad guy. I want people to roleplay the pc even in ways they thought they couldn't, and plan such variety, except no muslims.
Because I am a muslim, and I need less cringy, eye rolling nonsense in my life, not more, and don't want people ragging on me for HURR SELF INSERT.

>>55381122
>The new Awakening smell, of course.

And what does a new Awakening smell like?

Would you rather be werewolf (furry faggot) or vampire (gay faggot)? (oWoD or nWod).

If you don't choose either you get stuck as a beast.

This place used to have 100+ posters

Let that sink in

>>55381261
>And what does a new Awakening smell like?

It smells like supremacy, of course.

>>55381259
Are you or have you known any terrorists and if you don't openly support terrorist do you secretly turn a blind eye to their actions?

>>55381261
Why, the appropriate astrological sign of course.
Unsurprisingly, most smell like Cancer.

>>55381264
Trying way to hard with that bait, guy.

>>55381258
Yeah oWod really needs their own thread especially the shit show that is modern ascension

>>55381264
Where's the changeling (otherkin faggot) option?

>>55381296
Can we just give Mage their own wank thread?

>>55381281
Wrong kind of muslim, fag-, er, anon.

>>55381057
So I need some ideas for weird ncps and phenomenons to populate mid-west and north for my campaign. Think fargo+carnivale+twin peaks+ lost highway

Anyone got something interesting

>>55381306
There are different kinds of muslims? So you don't support the truck of peace? If so that is good.

>>55381320
Mages, mages and more mages.

Also mages.

>>55381301
>Can we just give Mage their own wank thread?

Mage fans would wither without the woeful tears of the fans of other splats.

All we need is some new *good* material books from WW, and a lot of the mage trolling would disappear.

As long as we have few releases, with quality like Beast or the dreadful Requiem supplements, the void will be filled with crap.

>>55381268
Most people left when 5e came out. It's so much better than the Story Teller system it's funny.

>>55381301
I'm tired of seeing this suggestion. Yeah, go ahead and try. See what happens. It's definitely a foolproof idea that has never been attempted before, and definitely will not backfire horribly. What an elegantly simple solution. Undoubtedly you, post #55381301, will be hailed as the brilliant anon that saved the general.

What are you waiting for?

>>55381328
Probably a good point there. I really doubt they could sustain a general anyway, would get boring pretty fast.

>>55381341
You keep saying this shit but provide no proof to back up your nonsensical mage fueled claims

>>55381328
>Magefags would wither without the woeful tears of the other splatfags
ftfy.

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>>55381328
>>55381248
Nah it doesn't deserve it. I just got temp banned, assuredly for posting Genius in the Magewank thread. I can only assume one of the janitors is a Magefag and has a vested interest in the thread remaining shit.

Though I suppose there is some cruel irony in Magefaggotry being held up by an incorporeal entity spewing shit.

>>55381341
I already know it wouldn't work, but an anon can dream.
Why are you so angry about it?

>>55381353
You're right, I've got nothing. Do it. Make that thread, buddy.

>>55381356
Yes. One of the Mods is an actual Exarch.

>>55381359
>Why are you so angry about it?
Tired and annoyed.

>>55381365
Nah, janitor. Given the tempban didn't go through as a full ban I have to assume the Mods themselves are Oracles.

>>55381365
Have they tried making it so that the threads always were, and will forever be less shitty?
Ah right, Pax.

>>55381359
Because he is a shitposting magefag. How have you not realized such a simple truth?

>>55381356
>posts off-topic content
>gets banned
>"surely i am not blame here"

>>55381369
Hey, fair enough. It seems this entire week has been draining, mentally and emotionally.

>>55381236
Low Ranking Technocrat: Believes his power comes from sufficiently advanced technology. It is actually him enforcing his will on a subjective reality.

High Ranking Technocrat: Believes his power comes from using technology to enforce his will on a subjective reality, which he models scientifically.

Son of Ether: Same as the high-ranking Technocrat, except he isn't ideologically committed to the idea of universal laws, believes in local reality.

Genius: Lunatic possessed by alien math that makes him believe incorrect things about the objective world he lives in, which then serve as theories to build devices that then work because of alien math spirits.

In short, the difference is the oWoD Mage is sane and the Genius isn't.

>>55381388
Fansplats aren't off-topic content, you insufferable cockmuncher.

I know Dave finds Mage Supremacy boring

But, do you ever wonder what he thinks of all these Magefags?

>>55381299

Isn't that what beast is?

>>55381326
>There are different kinds of muslims?
Amazingly enough, yes.
On point, this kind of foolishness is what I'm avoiding.
>>55381388
I thought Genius was WoD homebrew.
You can't about homebrew in this thread? What about other WW/OP games?
>>55381412
>I know Dave finds Mage Supremacy boring
Then why does he encourage it?

>>55381410
Yes they are, you horrid assdevourer

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>>55381423
And yet I'm still posting them. Woo. Because it turns out you're allowed to talk about homebrew on /tg/.

>>55381412
The devs would do well not to give a shit over this place

>>55381410
If it's not a game (or directly related to one) for either of the settings published by WW or OPP, it's off-topic.

>>55381410
>>55381423


Assdevourers and cockmunchers.

is that something from the abyss?

>>55381419
>Then why does he encourage it?
He doesn't? He jokes about it, sure, but that's about it.

>>55381412
Constantly, these days. I feel like he's a regretful God, looking down on a creation that in itself is fine, but attracts the worst of the worst. I'm probably projecting that on him, though.
>>55381432
>Insufferable mages is a phenomena local to the /tg/ general alone.
Yeah, okay buddy.

>>55381443
If they weren't already, they are now!

>>55381447
He consistently makes rules supporting it in the face of all challenges, and lore that buttresses it.
>>55381433
>no homebrew on /tg/
Fuck, what's happened to this place?

>>55381459
/tg/ has fallen... they are coming!

>>55381412
>But, do you ever wonder what he thinks of all these Magefags?

He appreciates anyone who actually buys Mage products so he can earn a few extra dollars and encourage OPP/WW to release more books.

>basic economics

>>55381459
Give an example mudslime. And yes shit tier homebrew based on something that isn't in Wod/CofD doesn't deserve to be here.

>>55381459
>He consistently makes rules supporting it in the face of all challenges, and lore that buttresses it.
Mage Supremacy, such as it actually is, is more of a by product and not a priority. Sure, Mages are strong, but it doesn't really matter much when these games aren't meant for crossover play and Mages are their own main antagonists.

>>55381472
You don't deserve to be here.

>>55381472
Can his example be gesturing wildly to /tg/ as it has been for years?

>>55381459
>>no homebrew on /tg/
Who said that? You can make your own thread for it, but don't bring it to the thread where it doesn't actually belong. This thread is for the WoD and CofD games, which fansplats are not.

>>55381480
>when these games aren't meant for crossover play
>makes crossover books
>using ipso facto logic to justify mages being powerful
It's like listening to 3.pf fans talk about how magic should be the best because it should be, when it need not, save for dev intent.

>>55381495
Yes they are. Anything related to WoD/CofD is allowed in the general, including homebrew, house rules, individual campaigns, and things you don't like.

>>55381118
Best to start with Atavisms, work backwards to Family.
* Scale unclear, but if supposed to be large, Looming Presence (Anakim).
* Has skin armor, so Unbreakable (Namtaru).
* With those jaws and claws, need damage.
- Basilisk's Touch (Namtaru) if poisonous
- Cyclopean Strength (Anakim) if really strong (does seem to have one eye)
- Limb From Limb (Eshmaki) if good at severing (closest match?)
* Assuming not aquatic — body not optimal in terms of swimming surfaces. Between that and not charismatic, not Makara.
* No sign of Ugallu flight either, and Ugallu senses would use up crucial slots at this stage.

Essentials: this is a tough monster that can shred people. Unbreakable and Limb From Limb. Family will help you get more atavisms with XP:
* Namtaru advancement: Shadowed Soul for darksight (pair with a dark Lair), Basilisk's Touch for poison.
* Eshmaki advancement: Dragonfire (pair with a fiery Lair), From the Shadows (chameleon effect), Relentless Hunter for added toughness.

Non-affinity atavisms you might get with XP later:
- Makara for aquatic, Monster From the Deep, Heart of the Ocean, suitable Lair. Depends on if you want to be aquatic. Tentacles look more like decorative icky tentacles than functional grabby tentacles (length, placement).
- Needs Must (Ugallu) is useful for every beast. Eye of Heaven (Ugallu) may be good too.

When in doubt, Hunger for Prey. The most intuitive Hunger, just like Frankensteins are the most intuitive Prometheans.

Lair: can add dark, fire or water when you get those atavisms. I like Thunderous/Sealed Exits because you can invoke it on any loud noise and it stops escapes. With Unbreakable, consider Razored.

Nightmares: Gonna help you hunt. Fear Is Contagious (multiple targets) or You Can't Wake Up (additional uses on same target), and depending on which is highest:
- Presence: You Deserve This
- Manipulation: Everything You Do Is Worthless
- Wits: You Cannot Run
- Intelligence: All Your Teeth Are Falling Out

We're already nearing 100 posts. What the fuck are you people doing. The thread was literally made within the hour.

>>55381495
Every other general has homebrew in it, so long as it is based on the existing system and is compatible.
You lot are just being fucktards. Probably the same one.

>>55381511
No, you fucklord. This is the place to discuss OPP/WW products, of which Genius and other fansplats don't quality.

Eat a cock.

>>55381513
Thanks a lot anon. This is really helpful.

>>55381503
The crossover books are supplements. Optional things. It's not like DnD where playing mixed parties is the norm. In my experience the crossover books aren't even used for crossover games anyway, and most people just pick one of the splats.

I also didn't justify Mages being powerful, more like saying that Mage Supremacy doesn't even exist in their own game unless you focus the stories on weaker members of other splats. For some reason.

>>55381495
Better not post any personal, non-canon characters or story lines, I guess. God forbid someone homebrews a merit or power!

>>55381529
>muh purity
Let me guess, you crusaded against quests and /wst/ and hate Storytime threads.

>>55381529

I'm guessing a fuckord is a ruler over assdevourers and cockmunchers.

>>55381443

>>55381549
Damn right.

You can also leave.

>>55381548
If it's for the actual games, it's fine. Entirely made up games aren't. Nice false equivalency.

>>55381518
Yeah, fansplat posters need to be banned. They don't even belong here.

You all sound sexually frustrated.

>>55381585
What do you mean? I'm relieving myself right now.

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>>55381513
I understand the direction you are going with this, but I disagree on the Family.
It looks to be based on a Dragonfish, Makara makes sense from that
The rest is fantastic.

>>55381513
Thinking about Behold My True Form for a nightmare as well. Also I think the beast looks some what nocturnal so maybe having dim lights as an easily accessible lair trait. But I also like the major trait but more of a blue or purplish colored fire. Lots to think about. Also if I am reading correctly if you want to manifest a major lair trait into the real world but don't have a good source you can use minor lair traits like dim lighting or loud sounds in order to manifest your lair with the major traits?

>>55381585
Most accurate post in the past 5 threads.
Print it out, sign it, frame it, put it on the wall.

>>55381622
It would make a decent banner.

>>55381622
Magefags are wizards for a reason

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>>55381585
Small price to pay for infinite power

>>55381673
>lost virginity at 16
>not well adjusted at all
>she didn't cum
Gonna have to call bullshit on this chart, f a m.

>>55381118
>>55381166
>>55381513
>>55381601
Good second opinion, how about a Makara version?

Affinity:
* Alien Allure and Siren's Treacherous Song are out, this doesn't look like a Social Makara.
* Heart of the Ocean pairs with an underwater Lair, also good for sensing prey. If you take this, take a corresponding Lair trait.
* Monster From the Deep is an attack power which can also target groups. This would focus on tail/tentacle attacks. If you take this, take Fear Is Contagious to help hunt groups.

Non-Affinity:
* Unbreakable is still good to represent the scaly carapace.
* Basilisk's Touch/Cyclopean Strength/Limb From Limb are still useful attacks, but you probably want Monster From the Deep or Heart of the Ocean instead.
* Looming Presence can still represent large size if appropriate.

Lair: if you take Heart of the Ocean, take Flooded. Consider Currents, Sealed Exits, Cramped (especially with Monster From the Deep, to bunch targets up), and Razored (with Unbreakable). Obviously we're talking about an underwater cavern type place that can be invoked from a swimming pool or body of water generally, and has either dangerous undertow, no normal way out, tight passages, or sharp rocks.

The Makara birthright seems better for this than the Eshmaki or Namtaru ones. A Makara hunting Prey might get more out of victims who eat a lot of seafood, because that makes them part of his ecosystem and he's a top predator in it. The surprising jackpot: people who take fish oil supplements.

>>55381535
Pleased to be of service. I believe Beast is a salvageable game for groups that throw away "lessons" and embrace beasts as villain protagonists.

>>55381615
Behold My True Form is an alternative to physical attacks, and from the look of it, this broseph is a physical attack specialist.

Yes, you can use minor traits to manifest major traits, it's a key Lair strategy. Dim light and darkness are easy to get, but the easiest is Thunderous: any loud noise will do, even one you make.

>>55381731
This is looking great! Beast had a lot of potential, glad to see someone doing something positive with it.

>>55381772
only positive thing you can do with beast is wipe your ass with it.

You will still catch aids from it though

>>55381731
I don't know Beast, but one of the luring abilities might be appropriate to represent the bioluminescence it uses to lure prey?

>>55381814
There should be a suitable atavism for that, but there isn't. The Makara ones are more social and Siren's Song is specifically voice. A curiousity nightmare or will-o-wisp atavaism would be a welcome addition.

>>55381860
Ah, that's a shame, Alien Allure sounded like it had potential. Sorry for the misinformed thought!

>>55381888
Shit, you were more on the right track than the people who made the game.

>>55381560
Don't forget the Cuntsuckers!

Like this lovely anon >>55381562

>>55381785
Shut up fagclubber.

Also Captcha will accept a Mailbox as a substitute for a Punching Bag, I'm not sure what to take away from this.

>>55381990
The killer robots will have durable fists.

>>55381086
I'm trying to revive several campaigns at the moment, my main problem being that my players are all moving out of town for personal reasons (work, studies, etc ...)
The campaigns consisting in:
>one mid-power action/politics VtR game centered around the rise and fall of several princes of Paris, with themes involving totalitarianism, terrorism, the stryx, unusual properties of the blood and revenge for stuff that happened centuries ago (and that the original players actually played in other games)
>one low-to-high power Changeling campaign that I double-DM with a friend, starting with the PCs escape from Arcadia and ending with them potentially becoming Huntsmen and fucking up True Fae. More adventure-driven, we use it ti explore revamped versions of fairy tales we like and send them on international wild goose chases
>one low-to-mid power Hunter game set in Egypt, stuck right before the characters start getting powers. The idea was to make it into a BPRD style game with psychics and offshoots from major splats (ghouls, stigmatics, etc ...) hunting abominations and trying to save their asses when they get in over their heads.

On the side, to ease my pain, I'm also trying to write a one-player Demon campaign for my co-DM, set in New York

All is CofD, and all is sadly still on hold.

Beast: the Attack Helicoptering.

Ugallu with Dragonfire and Wings of the Raptor. The helicopter flies (or kinda jumps) and fires incendiary rockets.

Lair: Thunderous and Exposed. The helicopter carries a boombox with a tape of helicopter sounds and cranks it up to summon the Lair.

Nightmares: Run Away, You Will Never Rest. You can't fight the helicopter, and a machine doesn't tire like your weak flesh.

Hunger for Ruin: The helicopter doesn't need to eat. It needs to destroy. Dragonfire rockets burn vehicles and homes. If you survive, despair in the wake of the helicopter.

Legend/Life: Attack Helicopter (rain fire from the sky)/Otherkin (discover your secret self with likeminded others)

Advancement: Become more helicopter-like. Get a megaphone for shouting orders (You Must Obey), a fan to simulate downblast (Crosswinds or Hurricane), and a handheld spotlight to search the ground (Blazing Light). Get Relentless Hunter, Shadowed Soul, Unbreakable, and maybe Storm-Lashed. Obsessively research strafing and airstrikes and mimic authentic helicopter behavior. You are an attack helicopter.

>>55381264
Jokes on you, I'd rather be a Beast. It's a shitty game but I win't be stuck dealing with Kindred bullshit forever and Werewolves have a shitty life expectancy.

Otherwise Werewolf.

>>55382223
What this guy said
At least I'll be mostly left alone and can bully to my heart's desire

Holy shit, this thread is horrible but I actually prefer bitching about fansplats and whether they are allowed here or not over Mage Supremacy.

This place has broke me.

>>55382188
outstanding post. I'll award you one (1) Internet for your trouble.

>>55382271
Yes. It's all terrible.

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>>55382271
>people actually posting OC and discussing stuff instead of Mage wankery and dick-measuring
>horrible

People who are familiar with Genius rules:
I am trying to make a Genius whose gimmick would be to mimic Fey, so their Wonders would have variable that makes them maniafree to use under some extremely limited circumstances. Would this variable incur -1 penalty to core modifier or greater?

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How much of America, or the world even, do the Seers of the Throne actually control?

Are Cross-overs with Genius as bad idea as cross-overs with Mage?

>>55382592
No, which obviously makes them superior to Mages.

what's a good shadow name for a Thyrsus who uses Celtic animism and is focused on fauna and flora found in forests/grasslands

would it be a Wisdom sin to seduce and fuck a virgin then use time so that making it so sleeping with her never happened so she can have her purity but you know how her snatch feels like?

>>55382535
Implying Trump isn't a fuck up by the Silver Ladder

>>55382734
Macha, Epona, Aine, Rhiannon, Teyrnon

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So Im doing an space opera/ infinite macabre game, and I was wondering how powerfull would a spirit of terraforming be? How should I stat it out from a mage and werewolf perspective? I ask cause I feel like it would be a good totem for werewolves beyond the sight of Luna.

>>55382747
That depends on whether the seduction is magical. If magic is used to seduce her, it might be considered a medium act of hubris, depending on whether being seduced is counter to her interests.

Otherwise, it may be a high act of hubris, because the spell turning back time could be seen as affecting an innocent bystander, and much more doubtfully because reversing the incident is something that might be approximated by nonmagical means, although I don't think it counts because it's unlikely to be with little or no risk.

Either way, if you do lose Wisdom, you can Inure the spell in question, and casting it will never again be considered an act of hubris.

>>55382832
If enough terraforming has happened to make Mars Earthlike, the ruling spirit of terraforming could easily be on the Helios/Luna level. Conveniently, it wouldn't need stats. Instead what you'd consider is its spirit court. If werewolves are working with the spirit of terraforming, they'll be dealing with its equivalent of lunes.

>>55382853
I can use that, thanks!

>>55382910
Then again, Mars has two moons. If Luna is the spirit of moons, she could be present through them. If she's only the spirit of THE moon, then Mars may have moon-spirits of its own.

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>>55382941
What the fuck kind of Auspices does Mars have with two moons?

>>55381431
Princess is the better thought out and better done fansplat. Genius is bitter oMage fans by way of sparks from Girl Genius.

>>55383183
That's valid opinion but by name I would imagine people are tired to death by 'Idealistic and magical gals gets brutally killed and mentally tortured by an uncaring world" -genre ushered by PMMM.
That said, I'd love to get to play either. Or Changeling.

>>55382766
Nah bro, he's the culmination of the cursed geomancy Seb-Hetchet lay in the planning of DC that has culminated and reached across the whole country with the rise of this sothic turn.

What do you think he was screaming about as his soul split asunder and he saw the finality of his works? He made a new Irem complete with an idiot pharaoh who seeks to be surrounded at all times by hymns and paeans, but the culture of America doesn't support that and there's no shan'iatu in the senate to lead in this puppet god king's name.

>>55382853
>they'll be dealing with its equivalent of lunes.
Phobes and Deimes?

>>55383466
For some reason I'm thinking the Shifters working for Phobos and Demios are shapeshifting rocks.

>>55383277
Its closer to Sailor Nothing than Madoka though they do take some major cues from the latter

>>55383645
The major Madoka influence is if you bottom out integrity you risk becoming a monster, but the key tone otherwise is the endlessly wearying struggle of trying to be a magical girl/boy in the world of darkness, where the Exarchs have already won and the God-Machine is all encompassing

>>55381419
>Then why does he encourage it?
You can't really nerf mages enough to be equal wih other splats without ruining the open magic system.

>>55382535
They have some pervasive influence like vampires but like them they don't control that much outside the local supernatural beings of the same type.
The main differences for Sleepers being who will set up mystery cults.

>>55383864
They don't have to be equal to the other splats however an apprentice of spirit shouldn't be more powerful than a Werewolf Elder and a apprentice of mind shouldn't be stronger than a Ventrue Prince.

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this show had legit scary episodes for a kid's show. Some good inspiration for CofD

>>55383864
I feel like mages have a lot of boons slapped on or inherent advantages that are not necessary for an open magic system or the themes of Hubris.
Mage Armor and some of the other defensive Attainments for example. A relatively unimportant fuel trait is another. Paradox got a lot better in 2e, but arguably is not quite there yet either.
In fact, one might argue these things work against the game's themes. Mage armor protects you from the fallout of your Hubris for little effort, easily gathered mana makes options like Blood Sacrifice literally only an option for Super-Edgelord-Villains who do it more to appease a Gulmoth than the mana.

Question time: are there efficient ways for changelings to deal agg damage? Only build I know are not-efficient high exp summer courts.

>>55384225
Dat fuckin pool ghost tho.

>>55384409
Holy shit, I'm still traumatized by that episode.

I'm a new ST, running changeling for my friends. After their last adventure they're at a total of 50 xp, but they haven't spent all of it yet.

how powerful are most characters at 50xp? In comparison to a 'normal' changeling are they stronger than average?

>>55384387
well if you want to consistently deal agg damage to other changelings all you need is cold iron

>>55384535
Changeling don't take agg from cold iron, only Hobs and True Fae do. It does nullify any defensive powers or fey-made armor, though.

>>55384812
wait really? I thought for sure that applied to all fae creatures.

>>55384812

Absent any changes in 2e, I thought regular iron negates changeling defenses, but cold iron does aggravated damage to them.

>>55384861
Changelings are only half-fae though
They still have a good part of human in them

>>55382188

It had to be done eventually.

>>55384812
They do in second edition, but I hate that change.

>>55382188
Cool.Matter/life adept and forces master could do this better.
Anyway its good and i grant you my smile

>>55385667
Its a joke about helicopterkin from /k/ that is best with Beast because of the otherkin mockery

>>55383993
Good news! They aren't. They can just do more things. An Apprentice has breadth but not depth. Especially if they're an actual Apprentice, and they only have Gnosis 1-2. That's a base dicepool of 3-4 in a Clash.

Is that mage-y and atlantean enough for a Thrysus legacy to deal with Totems and to believe animals and spirits were once like Totems and Atavisms but were stripped of their intelligence by the Exarchs?

>>55385722
And my post was joke about mage supremacy

Has anyone done anything interesting with India in their games?

>>55386136
Cool idea.

>>55381086

Im running a forsaken game that is in a state of failure and playing a lost game that is running pretty good.

>>55381086
Genius character concept: Unmada who is convinced that they are Charlatan from Changeling.

>crossover vampire werewolf
>i am werewolf
>GM make me meet a vampire
>i rape her

>>55384535
Thanks, but I was obviously not referring to the iron thing. I need it as much splat neutral as possible.
Anyone?

>>55386714
>Meets True Fae and starts demanding to be taken home
>Creeps Lost the hell out by acting like on of their captors
>Uses Goblinfruit as base for their Wonders
>Freaks out when they come in contact with Cold Iron or break their "ban", even through it has no effect on them.

>>55387570
Love it

>>55387473
well you could go with an elemental. obviously having an element that acts as a source of aggro damage would help with that, especially using the c ontract of elements

Levinquick would probably be your best bet

>>55387715
Levinquick sounds like a brand name yeast guaranteed to help your dough rise faster than the competition

>>55387828
it's also the electricity/lightning kith, their seeming blessing boosts speed

>>55386196
I can't even tell the difference anymore. The constant mageposting in these threads has emotionally numbed me

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>post devious use of magic
Another pc roastie refused to go out with my character so in revenge during the next social maneuver scene I used a ruling rote to force her to expel her bowels. Needless to say this had the whole table erupting in laughter. Well all except for the roastie.

So there's Geists, Abmortals, Immortals, Vampires, Werewolves, Mage, Mummies, Demons, the Possessed, Prometheans, Hunters, Mortals, Changelings, Alchemists, Ghouls, Wolf Blooded - what templates, greater and lesser, have I missed?

>>55387715
So there are just fire and light for Vamps and Silver for Weres.
I asked for efficiency...
Seems like there's none.

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>>55387993
Beasts and heroes

>>55387993
True Fae, Hobgoblins, Fetches, and Huntsmen

>>55388013
if you're looking for something that will murder everyone it would be better to get some sort of token weapon

>>55388059
isn't there a fae touched mortal template?

>>55388141
Ah, right that one too. Wasn't it in early development of 2e?

>>55388091
I feel like I saw an easy combo for agg in the 2e play test, bit in a position to hunt it down right now.

>>55387993
Proximi and Sleepwalkers.

>>55388242
in 1e there's also the contracts of punishing and eternal summer, those both inflict aggravated damage at the high dot levels, like 4 and 5

>>55381057
I liked ascension for its wildly varying factions desu.

A'ight I'm dumb. How the hell does buying werewolf gifts work?

Do I spend experience in my renown to unlock related gifts? Or both? Can I unlock everything or are some gifts auspice specific?

>>55388789
You buy the gift and you automatically unlock any gifts that you have the renown for. For example if you buy the gift of elements and have 5 purity and 2 glory you unlock the purity and glory facets of the gift of elements. The higher your renown the stronger a gift is.

How long does it usually take for books in post-editing development to be published?

I don't think I like Veiling spells going through a Clash of Wills with Unveiling spells and the like. If Mages are always aware of a Clash, wouldn't they know somebody or something was hidden nearby? Players, especially ones who metagame, would know something was up. Would it be viable instead to just pit Potency against Potency? If the spell to uncover it has less Potency, it doesn't register the Veiling spell at all. If the spell has equal Potency, a Clash of Wills initiates. If it has more Potency, the Veiling spell is pierced. Would that work? I might work out something similar for Mage Sight and other powers.

>>55387993
Are Psychics a template?
A bunch of minor vampires types, a dhampyr types and two or three failed vampire types.

Why are mages considered OP? Isn't the supernatural attribute of all other splats used as resistance against hostile supernal magic?

>>55388877
No. Withstand. Mage magic is unique.

>>55381118
Leviathan is the better Beast. Trust me.

Changeling are considered a medum-weak splat if not for pledges, that allows them to pile up bonuses.
This means that powerful Changeling are very pledge dependent.
A big freehold ruler has lots of fealty-related oaths. Has anyone considered exactly how much stuff a ruler would amass?
Which stats a powefurl Changeling with 30+ pledges would have?

>>55389034
How you figure? Non of the makara atavisms rally fit that monster in my opinion?

>>55388877
Spells that directly affect body, mind, or soul are usually Withstood by a Resistance trait. Like how Psychic Domination is Withstood by Resolve. If the target's Resolve beats out the Potency of the spell, then they aren't mind controlled. Attack spells that do direct damage, like Windstrike or Thunderbolt, aren't Withstood because Stamina is already a part of Health. Supernatural Tolerance stuff isn't added to Withstand, but it might still affect spells in some way. I don't know.

>>55389527
>. Supernatural Tolerance stuff isn't added to Withstand, but it might still affect spells in some way. I don't know.

It matters in Clash of Wills, but doesn't add to withstand. Adding it to Withstand basically guarantees spells only work on mundanes, it was playtested and thrown out in the past.

>>55389527
Small correction, the Resolve does not need to beat out the Potency, just match it.

Resolve 3 - Potency 3 is still an effective Potency of 0.

>>55389788
Right, my bad.

Here's a question - do you know any reliable methods of helping normies bypass Lunacy that doesn't risk exploding their brains at the end of the month?

>>55390235
Mind 3

>>55390235
Photographic or video documentation. GoPro all your action experiences!

>>55390509
I meant like, so that your human packmates don't go running and screaming in the middle of an outing when you kick yourself into gear.

>>55390561
Nothing really besides large dice pools. You could possibly argue with your GM that supernatural merits that make mortals more durable to supernatural shit from other splats might apply to Lunacy as a bonus too but that's up to them. Otherwise it is a crap shoot that you can try to edge your way but can't guarantee

>>55388828
>>55388789
When you buy the Gift you get one Facet you have Renown for. You don't get other Facets of that Gift for free even if you have their Renown, you have to buy them separately. You can't get a Facet if you don't have its Renown. (The book uses "unlock" to mean the purchase of a Facet, not that it becomes available for purchase.)

The first Facet of a new Gift is 3xp, more Facets of a Gift are 2xp each. If the Gift isn't associated with your Auspice or Tribe, it costs 5xp instead of 3xp to get the first Facet.

When gaining Renown, you get one free Facet of that Renown in a Gift you already have. If you don't have a Facet like that available, you'll get the free Facet the next time you get a new Gift. (Except, maybe, if your first Facet in the Gift matches the Renown. Then it might continue being delayed.)

Most Gifts are Shadow Gifts and work as described above.

Moon Gifts work differently. All of your Moon Gift Facets are tied to your Auspice Renown, each is connected to a certain level of that Renown, and you get it for free when your Renown rises to that level. In 1e, additional Moon Gifts that worked differently were eventually added, but they don't yet officially exist in 2e.

Wolf Gifts (Change, Hunting, and Pack) are cheap and easy, it's just 1xp per facet with no other costs.

Source: WtF 2e, pages 114-5

playing mage is like being a wizard in d&d or it's just a normal guy with some powerful rituals?

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>>55391105
Playing a mage is like being a comic book magic guy like Dr. Fate and especially Dr. Strange.

>>55391152
explain

>>55391105
Mage is The Matrix and every mage is The One, except with more varied powers.

>>55391274
but I thought Demon was literally the Matrix

>>55391185
He's shitposting.

>>55391303
They are, but Demons are Agents on the run from the source by hiding as blue pills.

I recently found out about this game, but I have no idea where to start. Where is a good starting point?

>>55391366
Mage

>>55391366
Whichever game you're most interested in. I would recommend going CofD, whatever you do.

>>55391343
This is the best explanation of Demon I've ever seen.

>>55391185
Magic is less learned spells and more you imagine something and it happens. Instead of being a wizard you are more like a minor deity that can do anything under your purview.

>>55391366
Vampire: the Requiem 2e. Mage is good, and it has a loyal following, but it's fucking weird and a big chunk of the rules is open to argument (which creates most of the posts in these threads). Read Mage after Vampire and you'll already be solid on the core CofD system.

>>55391366
I'd recommend Vampire the Anything because everyone is familiar with vampires, so you'll have an easier time finding content about the game. Plus everyone wants to be a vampire, so finding players to play with will be easier.

>>55391671
...Ummm, no?

>>55385937
+ 4 for duration and +1 for advanced potency.

so probably more like 8-9 jerkoff.

So if mage wizards are the strongest things in wod can vampire sorcerers or werewolf shamans match them? mummies are also practically sorcerers, so could they aswell?

Do other splats have magician factions or styles?

>>55392165
To a degree. There are multiple kinds of blood magic for vampires. Werewolves can do some magic-ish things. A Court of changelings (in 1e, not sure how 2e will handle this) is dedicated to the occult. Mummies aren't "practically sorcerers" though.

Nobody else has the freeform magic system that mages do. The closest you'll get is an alternate blood magic system in Blood Sorceries.

>>55392226
>Mummies aren't "practically sorcerers" though.

Aren't they though? Or perhaps I'm leaning more towards the "sorcerer-priest" Shan''iatu.

>>55392253
Yeah, mummies are not the Shan'iatu, they're people who were selected for an experimental process the Shan'iatu developed.

For comparison, a mage can have a power that gives them dominion over matter in general. Objects, the dirt, the air, everything. A mummy can have a power that lets them target a location with a meteor strike.

What Practice instills Templates, folks? Entities.

Yep, the Shan Iatu are/were Archmages.

>>55392313
Just because there's a way for Archmages to template doesn't mean Archmages are the only ones who can template. The Shan'iatu are shards of Lower Depths beings.

>>55392165
>So if mage wizards are the strongest things in wod can vampire sorcerers or werewolf shamans match them?

Simply, no.

Depending on build, some of the most powerful and experienced splat members may triumph over new mages. However, at even remotely equivalent levels of experience and/or in groups, mages will prevail. Master mages are the biggest dogs in the CofD without peer except for literal god-tier beings and other mages.

How will SoS showcase Ochemata without it having actual Archmage rules?

>muh plot device
is boring

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Which Path does he belong to?

>>55392670
Mastigos. His works are all Goetic mysteries, but none of the adaptations are, which is why he hates Hollywood so much.

>>55392528
probably similar to the ephemeral entity/dream form rules.

I want to run Hunter but Over never run wod. Any advice?

>>55392813
Make sure they don't fight real splats like mages or changelings because they will get wrekt.

>>55387993
Slashers?

>>55392841
If he is new to wod he wont run mages or changelings properly so it wont matter.

Its not like a brand new ST will know wtf he is doing when it comes to mages or changelings.

>>55392813
Use the dread powers in the hunter books and keep it simple.

Anyone here ever managed to get themselves kicked out of a crossover Chronicle by light of playing a Mage?

I just did. And I feel alone.

>>55393237
What did you do?

>>55393237
I'm playing one right this very instant and it is going pretty well.

>>55393469
Let's just say my Moros wasn't well liked.

I also used the sunlight shield mentioned here as inspiration for a Praxis and it kind of went sour.

>>55393237
You can't just post this and not include the story.

>>55393568
I'd really rather not. Mage storytimes don't really do well in here, y'know? It's fuel for something terrible.

>>55393550
You never EVER use this place as inspiration for anything, you retarded mongoloid.

This place has atrocious advice regarding Mage. Unless it's from the rare DaveB comment.

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Who was best girl?

>>55393677
The crazy one

>>55391321
But it's also true. Mage is pretty much a Doctor Strange game.

>>55393237
I only got kicked out from a chronicle for playing mage once. I killed the changeling, so they booted me. They were a bunch of fucking whores.

I believe I posted the story months ago.

>>55391726
While it's a gross simplification, that's basicaly what forming an imago is.

>>55393742
I'm more referring to the fact that assmunchers here think Mages aren't wizards.

>>55393714
It sounds more like you got kicked for being a huge asshole.

>>55393830
It was an act of self defense. I got booted for protecting myself.

>>55393897
Could you go into more detail?

>>55393914
Go search the archives. I'm not responding to an asshole who calls me an asshole. Bye.

>>55391745
You only get the +4 if you have a year long or indefinite duration, which for an Apprentice is either -6/8, or -8/10, depending on the Primary spell factor. That's a -6 at least to your base dicepool of 3 or 4. At Gnosis 2 you only get 2 yantras to incorporate into spell casting. Early on this most likely means your Dedicated Tool and High Speech, meaning a +3. Making your dicepool at this point +1. But wait, we haven't gotten to Potency. If your Primary Factor is Duration, that means you have to subtract 2 from the dicepool for each level you want to go up. At a base of 1 Potency, your Shielding spell is only going to take one supernatural attack. Say if you wanted a solid 3 Potency, that would be -4. To your already tiny, tiny pool of 1. You can of course, use a Willpower point to up the pool by 3, but that would make your pool 0 here. +2, if you just went for Potency 2. There's also no reason to go with Advanced Potency unless you're intentionally setting the spell up to go against Clashes, because all it does besides adding that one die is add 2 Withstand to resist dispellation. It adds a Reach anyway, so you'll have to deal with at least some Paradox if you move both factors to Advanced. And all it does here is add 1 die to the Clash.

In short, the only real way an Apprentice could get the bonuses you're talking about while not having the spell be pathetically weak is if he ritually cast it, rolling his pool of +2 every 3 hours to get one success. And even then it would only block, at the most, two supernatural attacks that the Shield is designed to stop.

>>55381086
I recently finished a chronicle of MtAw 2e AMA

>>55394147
How much astral realm exploring did you get in? I feel like I'm ignoring a whole chunk of the setting, especially as a Mastigos, but a ton of our concerns in my game are in the decidedly material world.

>>55394163
The Astral is cool but you basically need to make it a compaign or part of one.

>>55381086
There was this time I played in a campaign I played in Genius. I played a Staunen Progenitor named Dr. Corbett who was originally a neurosurgeon who successfully transplanted his own brain back into his body. He also extracted it himself, but the second feat was far more impressive.

However, his body had died in the meantime, so he began the game with rigor mortis and decomposed over the course of the campaign. To save his life or just his mind, Corbett spliced some of his surviving neurons into a virus and his consciousness survived because of RNA memory. Unfortunately, one of the Other PCs digitized the petri dish containing the Dr. Corbett-virus and he ended the campaign trapped in a USB labelled only as "Not Porn".

It was a fun experience all in all.

>>55394163
I had two mastigos characters, but only one bothered with exploring the astral sea. He was particularly interested in goetia because one of the other players explained them as "meme spirits," so there was a lolsorandumb session where he sought out the Spirit of Kek in the Temenos.

Then the player started reading Jung and he his character evolved from magical shit-posting to trying to summon powerful archetypes from the collective unconscious. So there was a side plot where he hunted down and forged a contract with one of the goetic aspects of 'The Mother' archetype in the Temenos- specifically 'The Devouring Mother'.

In both instances I made him roleplay out his journey from dream to the Oneiros then to the Temenos. It was interesting, because I started with using elements from his backstory and character sheet to frame the dream-soul but as he got deeper and deeper he lost more and more context.

It was fun to GM.

How do we fix these threads?

>>55394448
In fact the best parts of the campaign where the session where the PCs visited other realms. In the first story arc, they traveled to an emanation of Arcadia that was dominated by Fate, and the descriptions of the setting and location would change from moment to moment based on what the Players did and want courses of action they took. Eventually they figured out that by playing on dramatic tropes, they were able to shape the landscape in a way that gave them a huge advantage in a fight against an Abyss-tainted Fae Hag.

And another time they found an Atlantean Temple that was partially out of phase with reality, so time and space spells were either nerfed or buffed based on what they were trying to do.

>>55394486
1. Ignore shitposters.
2. Repeat step 1 as needed.

That's your best bet.

>>55394486
Effortposting.

>>55394486
>How do we fix these threads?

Cleansing fire and prayer.

>>55394486
You can't. if you manage to fix the thread it'll break Pax and they'll change it back.

Seriously though, we've gotten darn close and just need to not go for bait, don't even respond to responses to bait. Find ways for splats to work together, rather than theoretical fights.

>>55381259
This makes me want to turn some hunters racist
Not that they are actually racist but every unholy abomination is of a certain race and sense no one else can see them for what they are they just see them beating down some black guy or a muslim or something

>>55394960
>Find ways for splats to work together

I'm all for more productive threads, but that's just crazy talk.

>>55393936
Not my fault your post made you sound like a party killing asshole. Clarification is important.

>>55395371
Fuck you for not believing people on the internet. Bye.

>>55381401
Cant a genius know they made up a theory? like there is a group that spends time with as much occult theories as they can after all.

>>55389766
You can add ST/2 or ST/3 to Withstand, and it will work normally, because mages have large dicepools and a lot of Potency to break through the Withstand to begin with.

>>55395212
Or just don't cross over.

Do people only think about 'muh combat' in crossover?

Otherwise, including Mages is fine.

I wonder if ARt Bell was a Thrysus, and kept using transform life to spawn cryptid babies around the world?

>>55395710
It wouldn't really work normally. What it would mean is that the spells that did manage to get past Withstand ratings that have a base of 5, 6 or 7 would be really weak, and that for Mages below Adept level would be really difficult to attempt and unlikely to succeed. It would also mean that the spells would almost always have Advanced Duration, as to avoid incurring even more penalties to the casting pool, which means more Reach, which could mean Paradox, and could mean either a Paradox Condition being imposed, or your spell being punted back to regular Duration and only lasting one measly turn, among other things. Like being hit with the Beaten Down tilt and having to spend Willpower for every fighting action. More over, to get those large dicepools, Mages have to incorporate yantras, which, with the exception of one reflexive yantra (most likely a tool, meaning just a +1), adds turns to the casting time. In a combat situation, that means the casting could be interrupted. Your tool stolen, even.

There are a lot of factors to consider, is what I'm saying. And can't the other splats boost their traits anyway? Even beyond the human maximum?

>>55395963

Mages are equally unbalancing outside of combat, if not moreso.

Their inherent abilities and the Arcana are designed to solve mysteries in mere moments that would take an entire chronicle for other splats. The utility and social uses of the Arcana are also just as impressive as their combat capabilities (e.g, Mind vs Dominate or Majesty).

>>55396065
So play a Mage that won't trivialize everything then?

I've said this before
>Don't bring Thyrsus to a Werewolf game
>Don't bring Moros to a Vampire Game
>Don't bring Acanthus to a Changeling game
Or more specifically
>Don't bring Spirit to a Werewolf game
>Don't bring Death to a Vampire Game
>Don't bring Fate to a Changeling game

Or, perhaps just don't abuse the Arcana.
Even though you know you totally can.

>>55396085
>Or, perhaps just don't abuse the Arcana.
>Even though you know you totally can.

That's one of the central themes to the entire splat? Power-levels aside crossovers rarely work because the game lines have such radically different themes.

>>55396085
>perhaps just don't abuse the Arcana

Arguing that players shouldn't use the Arcana in easy and obvious ways actually intended by the rules is not a solution. Further, the lack of "balance" exists regardless of Path, just some Paths are ever more unbalanced than other.

You post is little more than an argument against Mage crossover as a rule.

>>55396085
I would really rather just play as another vampire or werewolf or what-have-you than have my creative choices severely curbed and to have to be totally taken out of the game with the knowledge that the whole thing only continues because I'm deliberately avoiding a large chunk of my powers. Or worse, that I'm being forced to. Plus, I would like to actually have reasons to justify the crossover. Why am I, as a Mage, hanging around Werewolves if I don't have spirit related Obsessions? Why would I then not take Spirit? Same goes for Vampires/Death, Changelings/Fate, etc.

I just prefer not to do player crossover at all. It's doable, if you're one creative and patient ST, but even then I don't see it as worth all the trouble. The games have potent, focused themes that shouldn't be diluted or ignored.

Would it be better the read mage the ascension revised or 20th aniversery?

>>55396280
Revised. Oh, god, do not touch m20.

What are the issues with the later?

Are their any major changes to the rules?

>>55396381
>What are the issues with the later?
It has a very poor reputation for a number of reasons, most of them because of how obnoxious the writer is. As for rules, I hear it doesn't really have any, and you would have to buy the separate book "How Do You Do That?" if you wanted them.

Is it better to have high defense or high armor?

>>55394007
You dont roll your pool of dice every ritual cast time in ritual casting for 2e you mongoloid.

Nobody should start with gnosis below 3 so max ritual casting time is 6 hours and gives you +5 dice and 3 yantras.

You suck at being a mage, go die in a fire.

If I had a Familiar in twilight with the "blast" Numina and we got into a fight could it help me by shooting the dude in the 'real' world?

>>55396854
A bit much, don't you think?

>>55396854
Gnosis 3, Arcana 3, Willpower 3, Ritual time +5, 3 yantras from +6 to +9 (if rote) gives around 21 dice for a starting well built mage.

-up to 10 for duration depending on primary factor, another -8 for +4 potency, You would need to work out if switching primary factors is worth it leaving you with around 3 dice to cast a spell needing 1 success, assuming your not a mongoloid and have given yourself the condition that means you if you fail you get 1 success before hand then thats easy as fucking pie.

>>55396925
Not as bad as getting raped by a supernatural thingy, id rather spend 6 hours every so often shielding myself than getting bummed by whatever..

The only problem is spell control, but gnosis 3 is 3 max, not that bad.

>>55396854
My bad, I misremembered. Turns out you can get up to 5 dice by ritual casting. I thought it was an extended action. But my other points don't really change that much.

Also
>dumping all your merit points in gnosis
Absolutely boring, selfish, and a huge red flag. Which is why it's not allowed in the games I run, and I refuse to do it when I play.

>>55396910
No because it fucking thinks you are a retard.

But in reality yes. not 100% about it needing to manifest though

>>55396968
Not allowing gnosis 3 means you a cuk and bad.

>Muh roleplay

What possible merit points are worth taking at char creation that actually do anything remotely worth while you cant pick up later?

>>55396984
Not allowing Gnosis 3 means I'm tired of players like you. Assuming you've ever actually played a game. Guess what, in most cases I don't even allow Gnosis 2. Players who don't like it and whine can go find another ST.

>>55397025
Some players like to take merits(yes, they're retarded)
Some players like to push into 3 Gnosis(yes, they're smarter than you)

Denying the latter does, in fact, make you a fucking c-u-c-k

>>55397025
You're outnumbered. We're all Magefags. We know 3 Gnosis is the best option, you faglord.

Stop ruining other potential Magefags by denying them this.

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>>55397043
>asserting authority makes you a cuck

>>55397043
>>55397136
Go back to /pol/ with your garbage ideology, you are /r9k/ deluding yourselves into thinking you are the "alphas".

>>55397025
Tired of players who have probably read the book and have taken an interest in being a mage rather than some smucks who are retarded and dont care?

Also are you such a bad ST that you cant cope with a starting gnosis 3 mage, does it really cause so many problems that you have banned it?

Im lucky to have never come across a no fun allowed ST who bans things for shit reasons.

Personally just to see how shit your game was i would buy other merits i could loose then loose them and using sanctity of merits buy gnosis 3 as quickly as possible but you wouldnt allow that and id leave your shitty game.

>>55397234
>Reddit spacing
Fuck off back to where you came from faggot

Magefags seem angrier lately

>>55388836
Mages are fully aware whenever their powers Clash.
Yes, that is as entirely bullshit as it seems, especially given the existence of truth detecting magic.

>>55397443

Deceiving and hiding things from mages is HARD. The are the "detective splat" for a reason.

>>55397479
Knowledge IS power

>>55397234
Buddy, you wouldn't even make it in the game.

>>55397508
Ah, so all the players have to suck your tiny penis to play in your games.

The problem is clear now.

>>55397539
You are no Magefag. Leave this place and never return.

>>55397539
How can you say you love Mage if you wouldn't suck a dick to play?

>>55397508
Sorry, you wretched whore. Some of us actually like the play the game as is written.

Go suck a massive donkey donger.

>choose 3 gnosis option
>"REEEEEEEEE that shit ain't law in muh gamez"
>"you're retarded"

Sums it up quite nicely

Why is everything always so terrible in here.

>>55397559
The game, as written, tells me I'm more than allowed to tweak whatever I want if I don't like it. I don't like players dumping merit points into Gnosis. Get over it.

>>55397234
That's actually not a bad idea. Your character would start out with a normal life, get his shit fucked up, and come out the other side with more magical insight but less Allies/Resources/Safe Place. The system has goaded you into creating character development just to powergame.

>>55397656
The trouble with Gnosis 3 is simple. The guy's got a point, it IS the best option. The trouble is, a no-brainer in character creation means everybody takes it. Imagine if Moros was just the best Path, period. You'd hardly ever see the other Paths played in your game, and when a player chose a non-Moros, the game would only punish them for it.

If you disallow Gnosis spending, you won't see such uniform choices for Merit dots. Some players will want Shadow Name, some will want Occultation, some will want a Fighting Style, and so on. They'll ALL get Gnosis 3 eventually if they live that long, but with other things at creation instead, they'll be more different right out of the gate.

Another way to fix this, if you want faster progression, is to give Gnosis 3 to new PCs for free instead of the option to spend Merits to get Gnosis.

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Hey I feel like Im having a brain fart, are there more than 3 supernatural corporations in CoD? Cherion, Last Dynasty, Deva and...?

>>55397693
This is essentially how I feel about it. It's not about their power level, although ideally I would like them to start at 1 (and I like to start at 1) because it makes for a stronger sense of progression and accomplishment as you can hold more spells, your dicepools get larger, etc. But yeah, if you don't have such an obvious thing to spend your Gnosis points on, you have all these other options to be creative with and add more dynamic elements to the game, for you, the ST, and even the other players to take advantage of. In a 3 player game, just 3 merit points from everyone means a 3 dot Safe Place, Sanctum, and Hollow. Your whole Cabal is essentially set. Not to mention all the other resources you can have that can help just as much in their own way as more Gnosis. A Mentor, an Infamous Mentor, Contacts, Allies, Resources, an artifact, imbued item, a Familiar, etc. A good ST can use all of those to great effect, and so can you.

Players who don't see this and insist on having more Gnosis tend to be problem players. Although I suppose there could be a compromise in letting everyone have Gnosis 2 for free. Say it represents their time as being Awakened before the game starts, and makes Gnosis 3 not seem so far off.

>>55397767
Another method is to start at Gnosis 1 but have faster progression, either by giving out more beats/xp or with a time lapse and an xp award to represent progress during the lapse. You can start with a prologue at Gnosis 1, time-lapse them to Gnosis 3, and they'll still have that Gnosis 1 starting point to compare their characters to.

Are there any Craft(Painting) related Blood Sorcery, Devotions or something in VTR? One of my players wants to play an artist vampire with Auspex and Dream Visions. I think it's pretty cool but I don't see any vampire abilities that would play to that. Even Cacophony do not need Craft.

Also, would it be just if I restrict his Craft rolls with painting related rolls only? Nothing in his bio says about engineering.

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>>55381529

>>55397818
Have you read the craft(s) skill in the core book?
Painting is probably more suited to the expression skill.

Actually due to arcane beats. In the long run you lose out. CC is the best time to get merit dots without much sink time. You can't spend arcane beats for anything but magic stuff. You get arcane beats just by going out and exploring the world. which you were going to do anyways, exploring their obessions. In the early game merits really shine giving you easy inexpensive ins. One dot of risk free access to police officers is way more useful. Without easy access to useful merits like hallow and safeplace, you're always hurting for breathing room and relevance

A second extra point of gnosis isn't worth the hassle. Gnosis2 is pretty good starting point. You get some small breathing room but without the contentious need to count reach +2paradoxdice. The difference of three hours to one hour is literally anon issue in an all out fight. People that chimpout over Gnosis just want the magic special snowflakes but ignore the ease of just having a gun and having rotes on hand.

>>55397906
Wasting 1 dot on police allies
>what is mind

>>55397801
Progression by the book has sped up a lot since 1e, especially where newly flat costs are concerned, but it's still probably on the slow side for most groups given typical campaign length. (I have absolutely no statistics to back this up.)

The conversion of beats to XP makes this easy to tweak, though. By the book it's 5 beats to the XP. 4, 3, 2, or even 1 are all possible.

But what if the PCs get too powerful too fast? The players can retire or sideline them and play a new batch, maybe rookies being mentored by their rising star previous characters.

>>55397920
>pc's get powerful too fast

wtf? learn to challenge your players.

>>55397917
>risk free
being the key word
>BUT WE"RE MAGES
Opportunity costs. You literally can't have everything at CC. If you can't make hard choices You wouldn't live long

>>55397932
>>55397920
>>55397767
>>55397942
This is one of the things I absolutely hated about CofD when I first started reading the Awakening books [both 1e and 2e] over Ascension and Masquerade. They combined Backgrounds with Merits so you're buying them from the same pool. Makes it far too limiting to buy things in chargen.

>>55397964
I just wish they'd get some of their costs under control for merits. You can render astral adept useless with a 1 dot hallow merit, or go look for one yourself if you're in turrible danger IC and can't go home.

>>55397964
>Muh freebie points
It's just a simplified system. If anything it gets rid of the arbitrary background-FB into double back through skills attributes and backgrounds again.
The complaint that you don't get enough merit points is common enough criticism which was kind of addressed in 2ed by handing out a few more merit points. but if it's an issue you can just hand out more at CC. real simple

>>55397917
I know that you probably won't understand this, but having cops as Allies is much easier and more flexible than using magic, and less likely to bite you in the ass.

>>55397932
It's not that more powerful mages can't be challenged, it's that the nature of the challenges is different. Rapid advancement may take your players past their favorite aspects of the game. New characters are a way to get back down to street level.

>>55397997
13 Merit points might be a good number.

>>55398006
I'm sorry sir, we're busy having shitfits here, not reasonable discussion. I think you want another thread?

>>55398006
>playing mage at street level

thats your problem

>>55398021
>13
It's flavorful and a pretty good compromise I mean whatever works man

>>55398041
It's a problem some people want to have. For those with the opposite tastes, it can also be skipped past, of course.

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>>55398021
OHHHH, YOU 13, WHY YOU NO 14?

>>55398049
What street level threats are there for a starting mage group?

Masked muggers?

>>55398049
Street level stories with occasional forays into higher stakes and stranger places have always been my preference.

>>55398065
Other supernaturals. Vampires, Changlings, ghosts haunting a spooky house, etc?

>>55398002
Go read the allies merit fuckface.

1 point in Allies: Police will help you get out of a traffic ticket at best with the risk of loosing it if you fail when asking for harder shit.

1 point allies at starting are fucking waste of points.

>>55398065
Other Mages. Other supernaturals. And yeah, potentially even Sleepers. I wonder why this thread seems to think that Mages can just perfectly magic all their problems away.

>Not wanting to play Noir inspired PIs
I mean why even play

>>55398065
Have you read Broken Diamond? It starts at street level and some of those concerns persist quite a while.

>>55398091
The hardest thing about being a Moros is you can't pull a Dresden and list yourself in the phone book as a necromancer for hire without pissing off your Consilium/Ministry/cabal of fellow Scelesti.

>>55398080
What the fuck are you doing that'll get a your allies to just drop you?
Shoot up a school?

>>55398107
You got to list yourself under Seances and Mediums. And keep the *coughcough* extra services upon request

>>55398080
Where did you get this rating for a one dot favor? Plus, you only risk losing it. You could also succeed, if you have the right skills and traits. Which can be boosted with a Mind spell that carries no risk. And even if you lose the point in Allies, you get the point right back to spend with Sanctity of Merits. How is that a waste at all?

>>55398127
Or set up a solid Cryptopoly/Labyrinth. But it's still not as cool as DEAD RAISED, REASONABLE RATES

>>55398107
I would allow it. If the Guardians of the fucking Veil can make their phony cults, I can advertise myself like a phony.

>>55398140
You just can't pull it off now at days. The undead had to go ahead and Unionized and well it just wasn't the same when the undead started paying the bills.
agh Mummies. What are you going to do am I right?

>>55398168
You're going to Unmake a mummy's Rite of Return, that's what.

>>55398107
My WOD-hopping character is an Undead PI who got raised by his landlord because he was still 2 months of rent due. Built after the Revenant rules, but not really a revenant.

Usually the weakest supernatural in the group, but everyone can use investigation rolls with a default dicepool of about 10. And just so damn satisfying to play. Even though I hate Dresden files, I just like Hammet&Chandler.

>>55398218
We were having fun magefag fuck off

>>55398262
One of my favourite scenes:

The Mages went about, doing their arcane forensics. Problem was, they do teach Mages to find the clues - but they don't really teach em how regular people work. If you show em a half-eaten Taco, it just doesn't occur to half of them the guy's got to have bought it from somewhere - cause they'd just flung a spell to have the Taco appear, or have it be brough to them by chance.

"I'm a Mastigos you know. That means I can hear your Inner Monologue. You're..."

The Mastigos was being a dick and proving my point at the same time.

"Hey...oh."

>>55398387

>>55398328
omg Yes THIS.
I'm in a mage game right now, and Non of them understand how to investigate worth a damn. They walk over obvious clues trying to scramble over themselves to shoot off the next lightening spell. We had a talk outside with the Not quite anti Hero/Villian. I started to broker a deal to Investigate in his area, if we don't touch his major mysteries. I was ready to except the compromise, (while secretly planning to take a look anyways) but nope Mr. Flash just ran his ass off into the desert. I was his ride. We hashed out a quick deal. and i drove my bike the rest of the way. I was playing an Anacthus so I fate spelled my way to the crime scene. I weighted until the cops were done and rebuildt the scene using int+investigations. Speedster was basically running around the whole forest trying to find the cops and only arrived after I had finished up.

It's like the more gnosis you get the more you just want to play with the toys

>>55398262
There's really no denying that Dresden is hack writing compared to the greatest noir authors, yes.

Revenants are the right hand of the Moros. Versatile, effective, and if you manage them right, clever and motivated. By comparison, zombies are a waste of a corpse.

>>55398843
Yeah, we got around the "Mage/other big dog is just gonna dominate me" problem by now, since doing my jobs I collected some favors that went into the variety of making sure no PC clown tries to just flat out control me because lolpowerful.

Mage player/ST that doesn't allow Gnosis 3: You're awesome, keep doing what you're doing. Dont let the players in your mage game become Mage Players.

>>55400118
#NotAllMages