>Humans are the "versatile and adaptible" race

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>>55237302
>Chinatsu isn't a shit character

people who play exclusively humans while there are alternatives available are retarded

also GMs that only allow humans, elves, orcs (green humans, not the actually cool kind), dwarves and gnomes should fucking neck themselves

>>55237897
If you need to play as some bug person with six testicles in order to create an interesting character, you aren't a good player.
Human is all you need.

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>>55237915
agreed, see the warhammer 40k rpg (dark heresy)
you can even fluff the traditionnal fantasy races as abhuman/mutant and get away with it
you can even play DnD campaign on a feudal/feral world using only old weaponry, with just the core rulebook

adaptability is our premier trait in the real world though

>>55237302
This creates a better choice for players since your options are (for example), 'standard human,' 'short but tough human,' 'skinny and dextrous human,' etc. rather than starting with human and getting more absurd. While it stereotypes the nonhuman races it also prevents stereotyping the human race, which is evident in setting such as earlier Elder Scrolls games where you got stuff like 'Redguards are athletes' or 'Bretons are scholars.' While it's possible to play against these biases, stuff like the daily powers consistently reinforce them, even once your stats have begun falling into place.

>>55237302
>humans are the "able to eat a wide variety of foods" race
>humans are the "social signal hyperadapted" race

>>55237302
they are, grow up.

>>55237981
yeah fuck creativity amirite everyone should play humans with the same preset group dynamics

I'd rather play with a bug person with interesting traits and dynamics than yet another human rogue that is only in it for the money or human paladin that worships ideals or yet another drunkard dwarf warrior who just wants to fight

>>55237302
This has always annoyed me, since in order for any other races to get anywhere near humans in capability, society, technology, etc. they would have to have exhibited those same traits. In reality, it's just a way to prop humans up higher, since if they didn't have some super special ambiguously powerful advantage, they would be in most cases, grossly underpowered.

>>55237302
>Humans are the "Five fingers" race

>>55238110
>yet another human rogue that is only in it for the money or human paladin that worships ideals or yet another drunkard dwarf warrior who just wants to fight
The fact that you can't think outside of stereotypes is telling.

>>55237302
>>55238112
>>55238110
>>55238064
I guess the problem is that since we are the "baseline sapient" of our own reality, it's hard to imagine ourselves not being the baseline of other realities.

Even those who play insectoids or something still base themselves on human ideas, if only to counter them.

>>55237302
If not that then what else would you suggest to at least even the playing field with other races?

>>55238208
Says the idiot who thinks unusual races can't be played because "hurr, you're just playing a human with a funny hat."

Humans are always granted great stats just so people will bother playing them. The majority of the time players will choose non humans even though humans are mechanically the best, simply because they find humans boring.

Personally, I don't think humans are any more boring than any other race, since after session one people don't roleplay their race anyways and in the end they might as well be humans with different stats. Plus, every interesting person in our history was a human, save for the lizard people that run our government.

>>55237302
>>Humans are the "versatile and adaptible" race
>the other races are even remotely comparable to humans
Yeah, okay, nah, we're done here. If the other races aren't inhuman, along the lines of telepathic hivemind rocks or sentient shapeshifting biomass, then what's the fucking point of having them in the first place?
Just so you can shoehorn your favorite not!human culture, like not!Prussia and not!Japan? Then use the fucking human instead, you nig-nogger.

>>55237897
Players who play gnomes should neck themselves.

>>55238402
That's... technically gay.

>>55238353
Really? I've always been under the impression that the vast majority of people will always gravitate towards humans/elves or other human-likes by default regardless of anything else due to being easier to roleplay and relate.

>>55238110
How would you play the bug person? Like what kind of personality, etc

>>55238353
>people don't roleplay their race
Unless I'm playing a maniac or outcast, I attempt to roleplay my character's culture and motivations more than race. You know, roleplaying the character instead of a Dwarf.

>>55238300
I think the point is that if the only way you can make a creative character is by playing some funny looking monster, than you aren't being creative

>>55238353
>The majority of the time players will choose non humans
Several MMOs prove you wrong though.

>>55238633
We aren't talking about MMOs, friend.

>>55238650
There are actual statistics on player choices for those, pal.

>>55238660
That doesn't make wow a ttrpg

>>55237302
>>Humans are the "versatile and adaptible" race
Op. I agree with... All of that? Part of that? Some of that?

What are you posting exactly? More context.

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>>55238517
Not him, but loving father is a good one. See pic related, he takes his grubkid (look at the jar) with him on adventures in space while spreading the good word of Our Lady of Death.

>>55238353
I have a lot of fun playing races when they're actually biologically different from humans, which I imagine gives them a very different perspective on things. Like how would having dark vision affect what an elf is afraid of? Are they more or less cautious for it? How does enhanced scent or hearing affect their interactions with other races? I actually had a lot of fun playing a ratfolk in pathfinder that reacted to when characters were scared or angry because they couldn't hide their fear-scent.

So, what would you make human's gimmick instead of adaptable?

>>55238997
Tool users: They get a racial bonus to the creation and use of magic items. The Lore being an elf will spend a couple human lifetimes attempting to get a single human's lifetime level mastery of building a magic sword, but they also have longer to pump out more magic swords of that quality.

Yeah but everything except humans can see in the dark so the humans should constantly be cowering in fear of nighttime attacks.

>>55238997
Dunno, endurance it's a big one, we are probably the animal on this planet with the best endurance. We also heal well and we are very long lived. We are also very social, and conflict and conflict solving comes easy to us.

>>55239074
Yeah that sure matches up with +2 don'tdie or +2 hitharder.

>>55237302
What's wrong with humans being versatile?

That's basically our thing.

Specialization is for insects.

>>55239173
It's basically +2 Use Magic Item and +2 crafting in practice. Like how elves are supposed to be exceptionally graceful but that's just a low end dex bonus.

>>55238997
Conniving sneak-thiefs. In any diplomacy we're always trying to gain for ourselves and the concessions are only there to coerce an agreement. We lie to ourselves, our families, and complete strangers, sometimes without even realizing it because it's such a habit.

Other races would be more inclined to state their intentions plainly and make themselves known.

>>55239201
Think about it this way.

The more specialized a creature is for a climate, the less chance of surviving in a different climate it has.

Humans are really unspecialized because we are built for toolmaking and traveling. This makes it so that we can fit in in all but the most inhospitible climates.

We are inherently versatile.

>>55239159
Huh... How would humans even exist when all other races can see in the dark? Elves don't even need to sleep. In any conflict between any two races, humans lose, period.

>>55239167
Close, we are only beaten by camels and ostriches as far as endurance goes.

>>55239338
Not really. We typically outbreed them.

Even if they attack at the night we can meet their armies 2:1

>>55239397
Yeah but you wouldn't even be able to see an approaching army. They don't need light to travel by. Once they get to where you are, you don't have time to organize. Plus orcs probably out breed even humans. No wonder humans hate everyone else. They're the underdog.

Race should only be a part of your character. Whether you are a human, a catperson, a fire elemental, or anything inbetween.

If you remove the race and any associated conflict/issues/traits, and your character is not compelling or interesting on strength of his personality, goals, beliefs, motivations, etc., then you have failed and made a flat caricature and not a real character.

IN OTHER NEWS, I am generally pissed off at Human being the "all-around" race famed for its adaptability. Usually said adaptability is poorly represented as well, making humans mechanically bad. DND in particular is guilty of this in most editions.

>>55239419
We typically also have the magic advantage.

We can pump out 3 subpar magicians for every elf wizard.

And there's something to be said about our intelligence. It's probably is what keeps us from dying to orcs.

You just need torches and night watchmen

One horn blown and the armies up

>>55239419
Yeah, most fantasy settings don't even take into account how unlikely it is for humans to even exist at all, they are there because you know, gotta have humans. Despite there being a very high chance they would be outcompeted or rendered extinct before they even reach medieval level.

>>55239454
>>55239482

So basically, humans have to be adaptable or else die out to them other races. It's a fight for them to even survive.

>>55239428
Yea but in the land of cliche a human can be far more interesting than an elf.

Humans typically have pirates, priests, paladins, wizards and thousands of different fighters.

Elves are typically forest warriors.

Plus if your character is defined by something other than his hobbies, motives and occupation you've made a bad character end of story.

>>55239497
It's typically why we use other forces like Minotaur mercenaries or really strong human mages.

We know money, and love to use it.

>fighting elven sorceress.
>She says that its my species fate to die.
"The only fate i believe in is that of Mankinds prosperous future and dominance of the galaxy, one which needs not be tempted, only proven to scum like you!"

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>>55237897
>humans are boring
>you should play as what is essentially a pallet-swapped human, who stands upright, has oppositely digits and 4 or so limbs, then it would be a totally different experience
Are you suggesting I play a limbless, floating head with telekinetic powers?

>>55237302
>every race is just "humans, but [blank]"
The height of laziness.

I like 3.5 more than PF, but i swear to God, every game i join theres always that ONE (or in some cases more) asshole that plays some weird race or a monster race.
We have this asshole in my group who played a fairy, and he killed 4 innocent people for no reason because it apparently made sense for his character to do so. Im telling you, non-human players need to be watched. Core races, not so much, but the weird and beast races ones? Red fucking alert mate.

>>55239641
>floating head
>human style of a head-centric identity
You should play a foot with a tentacle that dies if there isn't a large body of mercury within 2 miles and communicates with pulses of beta radiation.

>>55239497
Yes, the thing however is that often fantasy/sci-fi outright paints it as mankind's super special power that no other race has or understands. Even though the other races mere existence would also depend on having that trait to get where they are.

>>55237302
GOD FUCKING DAMNIT WHAT DO YOU AUTISTS WANT. IF WE MAKE HUMANS GOOD AT SOMETHING WE'RE HAVING A HFY WANKFEST, IF WE MAKE THEM MEDIOCRE ITS CLICHE. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAPPEN TO BE A USELESS PIECE OF SHIT DOESN'T MEAN ALL OF HUMANITY IS. STOP TRYING TO DRAG US DOWN TO YOUR LEVEL AND ACCEPT HUMANS ARE EITHER GOOD AT SOMETHING, OR AVERAGE

>>55239754
We'll the other races seem pretty biologically adapted to the environment.

What use do they have changing their ways or adapting if they are made for the place they live at?

Necessity is the mother of invention, after all.

Why do other races even need gimmicks? Shouldn't the act of sapience be enough to set them apart?

>>55239754
Well, yeah. We only have the entirety of human experience to draw on to build understandable alien characters, so in a setting that wants communication and cooperation between species everything else is just going to be a differently specialized human.

>>55237302
Simply put, unless your race can do something humans can't do.

They don't need to exist.

I don't even allow half-orcs at my table.

>>55239820
My race can suck like, 29 dicks at once and no human has ever done that but OP

>>55238110
>I'd rather play with a bug person
You mean a human bug. Because all fantasy races are just humans in disguise.

>>55238744
Why not just play a human that takes his unborn son on a jar around? He could also go around spreading the word of the Reaper. In fact, it would be a much more interesting character since there is room to learn what made him this way instead of "that's just how bug people are lol so randumb"

>>55240003
>it's not randumb if a human does it
Remove yourself from the genepool, as well as any of your line that you may have already added to it.

>>55240035
Its not randumb if he has a good reason for it.

>>55240035
Its not randumb if there is a reason behind it you moron

>>55239770
Don't you understand? This is the beauty of it all.
There are no correct answers, only autism as far as you can imagine.

>>55239725
Can it carry a piece of mercury with it in a fannypack-type thing? How quickly does it die if it steps outside the mercury area of effect?

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>>55237302
>Humans are the "favorite of the gods" race

>>55240436
Nah I'm my setting humans really don't have a god.

The person who made them was an old dude(some kind of god) called the outsider.

He then left.

The other races have gods.

>>55238040
It's cooperation, really. The most successful animals are the most cooperative (ants are the most successful animals, humans are probably second).

>>55240577
We literally are built to be adaptive

Tool-using+Long distance running goes a long way

>>55240577
why can't elves be cooperative among themselves? Or goblins?

>>55240706
Literally cooperatation is a half of it.

The other half is the tools and long distance running

But you did point out how close elves and goblins are to humans, further proving their unnecessarity

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>Human
>Fighter

>>55240748
Goblins are crafty as well.

>>55240655
We have more than one strength, and all are important to our survival, but the reason we dominate the world is our social prowess.

>>55240706
They can be cooperative, but how they can be social and also different from humans is a very difficult problem. The real reason there are different races in fantasy games is "Tolkien did it" which is a bad reason, imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xbSHn4Fbu4

>>55240795
Then why even have them?

If they are basically rubber forehead humans, why have them?

>>55240706
There's a quest thing on one of the other boards that is delving into elven psychology and physiology.

The first part of their lives leaves them sapient but not sentient, and their brains are unformed. The elves who chose to do so train them in magic, elven socialization, and basic magis by rote, training them over and over and over again for about 70-90 years, hardwiring their social nature and the fighting skills and the basics of magical techniques into their brains. When they become adults, their brains are fully formed and ready to learn and think normally. It requires a group of elves to teach elves to be elves and once they are elves, they can do whatever they like with the rest of their lives, absolute freedom to chose.

>>55240803
So our first mission is to kill Tolkein. After Tolkein is dead we can save TTRPG?

>>55240836
For the same reason shitheads talk about (((globalists))) instead of just saying jew

>>55240577
How do you intend to measure success? If you're going by number of individuals it's probably some bacteria.

>>55240902
It should be a variety of things, but ants are clearly dominant if you really start looking into it. They account for 15-20% of all terrestrial animal biomass and have been around for over 70 million years. Unless you make bad criteria you'll arrive at ants.

>>55240902

Evolution favors rapid-breeding and short-living critters.

>>55238517
An outcast, tries to hide from humans, probably smarter than most humans, if in a sci-fi setting (which I think bug people would make the most sense in) he could be a scientist that turned himself into a bug man. If he was human before, the conflict of having a human body vs your new imperfect one a la Genji from Overwatch but a bit less cliche is always good. Just don't make his race his entire personality because nobody wants to group with Kanye West.

I personally think having other races that are mostly normal members of society though they face some struggles (and have some benefits) based on the physical aspect of being their race is also good.

>>55241148
It also favors my dick.

>>55240436
Yet hilariously several D&D settings have the various races have their own patron god, or gods even, and yet no god watches out for Humanity specifically.

Except Zarus

>>55241148
Doesn't really answer the question, because what is "favoring"?

>>55241045
Source? According to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomass_(ecology) they are completely dwarved by earthworms and also some other groups. And if we look at time of existence sharks for example exist for 420 millions years. Though this all is highly arbitrary as it depends on how narrowly we define the groups. E.g. do we compare ants with sharks, insects with fish, insects with sharks etc.?

>>55241310
>because what is "favoring"?
in the context of evolution, continued survival of the species.

>>55241272
Actually, Iomedae in Starfinder has been promoted to that position.

Why that happened, since she LOST their home planet, is still up in the air.

>>55241310
Looking into biomass, it seems like it's all full of bullshit. The estimate for earthworm biomass (or maybe population?) in that page is from fucking Darwin. Of course you're right, it would be a subjective judgement.

>>55241374
So then we'd have to go by time of existence of the species as a measure, in which case fast breeders would be complete shit because faster breeding also means the faster evolution into different species. This is the core of the problem.The term "species" doesn't matter. What evolution selects upon is the phentoype expression of genes. Species is not a meaningfull construct for measuring success on an evolutionary scale because a gene that caries on in a new species is successful even if the species doesn't continue to exist. Of course you could say "ok then we take newly evolved species into account as well, e.g. if a species evolve sinto a new one we add the time of existance of the new species to the old ones" but then the answer is trivial: The first organism ever is the most succesfull one and all others can't be measured as the point in time at which we begin to measure be completely arbitrary.

Humans are the only race crazy enough to become fucking liches.

>>55242904
Uh, baelnorns.

>>55242904
“Lich” is an acquired template that can be added to any living creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery.

>Humans are the strong race!
>Suddenly most races are limited to being weaker than humans
>Humans are the smart race!
>Suddenly most races are limited to being less smart than humans
>Humans have the most endurance!
>Suddenly most races have to take a break after climbing the stairs
etc.
People who complain about this shit are the exact same kind of pretentious assholes that use the word 'tropey'. Diplomancer or adaptable humans are ideal.

>>55242904
what is dracolich, nigguh

>>55237302
This is something that I've been thinking about while world building for my game. What justifies humans having general dominance or importance in the fantasy world? Arguably they're outclassed by the multitude of other races. I guess usually they outnumber the other races but then you get ones that have absurdly high birth rates and fast maturation.

I want to avoid doing some kind of "chosen" race narrative. The best I've thought of so far is that humanity is the race that conspired with evil in the dawn of time that resulted in some collosal fuck up or corruption of the world. Like Adam and Eve taking part in the forbidden fruit.

>>55246264
make humans the kobolds of your setting

>>55246264
I always make humans the underdog in my settings. Always have and always will.

The best part about humans is the humanity fuck yeah feel. You can't have that if humans already dominate. The endless will of the human race would be wasted on such a setting.

>>55237302
I like my humans to be the only race with a ridiculous abundance of heroes, legends and actual mythological figures. Whereas other races are naturally smart, strong or agile. The human race just has numerous individuals that have been any of the above. But not only that, these figures go beyond what would seem possible even for other races, and become figures talked about for ages whose influences can be felt well past their lifespan.

>>55246264
Build all your races around whatever gimmick you feel like, try not to get too far or too detailed, then throw one of em out, put humans in that spot and they're you go, you've got your humans.

>>55240755
If you had trips that would be appropriate.

There was a person at my game shop who liked playing a human fighter. He always spent an extra gold buying multiple pairs of shoes.

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>>55239641
Yes. be the flumph.

>>55248670
Flumph pirate. Something I have never before seen. I am impressed.

>>55237302
I'm writing a space fantasy RPG and I'm going to make humans the best at space magic, specifically because I'm tired of the "versatile and adaptable" copout thing.

>>55248633
Is there a joke I'm missing?

>>55246264
They weren't always. I used the Lovecraft/RE Howard Originally a slave race thing with humans. We were used as slaves the giants and... other, things, because of our endurance and adaptability. As for our dominance now, the important bit?

Sheer, dumb luck. Giants died to a plague, and we could adapt their technology to our use due to our similar physiology, we just had to shrink it. Do you guys have any idea how much of our history on this planet owes to luck? How close we've come to extinction, only to lick out at the last second?

Forget adaptability and intelligence, luck has been a greater factor in our history than anything else.

>>55237302
>Humans are the "versatile and adaptible" race
>this is represented by humans having a dozen subraces with different stats

>>55248724
he needs boots for all of his feats

>>55248783
>Do you guys have any idea how much of our history on this planet owes to luck?
>How close we've come to extinction, only to lick out at the last second?
nope

tell us

>>55249316
Random example? When European explorers first came to America, the natives numbered in the millions. But massive plagues (first coincidental, then intentional smallpox) made their numbers dwindle. Despite what you might believe, whites actually had major problems with what few natives there were. If they had better numbers, they would have been able to fight on better ground, especially after they got guns.

Civilization began in the middle-east, but Egypt was only usable because of the annual flooding. Kingdoms rose and fell depending on how much rain fell. Too much rain was bad, too, obviously. It wasn't as predictable as you might think, and droughts happened, but Egypt managed to survive whereas others, like Great Zimbabwe or that one non-Aztec pre-Columbian civilization, got too much drought and collapsed.

King Richard the Second, The Lion-Hearted, died from a random wound getting infected, after having dealt with the fucking Crusades. Killed by some nobody peasant boy. His brother, Prince Jon, did such a piss-poor job running things, the land-owners and lesser nobles forced him to sign the magna carta. All because some peasant boy got a lucky shot.

Japan would not exist if some random storm appeared from nowhere and annihilated the Mongol fleet that was coming to fuck them over. It was so random and out of place that they called it Kamikaze, the divine wind.

You think we came up with fire? No, we saw lightning set trees on fire, and eventually figured out how to make it ourselves. Agriculture? We randomly discover that our seed filled shits are growing into plants. Mother-fucking penicilin, one of the backbones of modern medicine and savior of billions of lives through anti_biotics? Accidental mold contamination of a petri dish.

As for the near extinctions, nobody actually knows all the details, but at one point, the population plummeted to something like a mere 3000 people, and we someow came back from it.

>>55249474
That's not even including shit like the Great Flood anon.
Which is not just a Abrahmic thing, almost every religion on earth features a massive flood that wiped out almost all life.

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ITT: People who lack imagination projecting onto others.

Okay then!

Humans are what happens when you plop a bunch of generic fantasy races in a setting and let them all rape eachother for a few generations.

Make humans more adept at wizardry due to their ability to see non-existant patterns.

Aditionally, give them a penalty to wisdom and leadership. Problem solved.

>>55244640
I think that Uplift did it really well. There's the Tymbrimi, who can actually adapt themselves consciously; their bodies can secret enzymes and such that allow them to selectively change their appearance and organs. One who falls in love with a human tries to grow breasts, for example.
Their flight-or-fight response floods their body with these enzymes, creating a very rapid change.

But their middle distance eyesight is worse than humans, they are also less physically robust and not quite as suited to endurance. Their flight of fight response ("gheer") is physically taxing to maintain.

Humans are adaptable, but they are not the most adaptable.

>>55247600
Holy shit this. Humans would make great "tucker's kobolds."

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>>55237302
> Homans are a charismatic trader race

Humans aren't real.

>>55240388
He doesn't die he just loses control of his body and gains super strength and begins rampaging

>>55239167
My setting's human had +2 CON, +1 of a stat of your choosing. Then there's a feature that lets them ignore one "stack" of exhaustion, the half orc's drop to 1 HP feature (no half orcs in the setting), and a pair of free skill or tool proficiencies

>>55237915
I don't play different races because I can only roleplay with a special snowflake I play different races because I like the mechanics. Being able to fly, having natural armour, being able to wield six swords at once, being as strong as ten men but with and IQ of 60, having superhuman vision and reflexes but being exceptionally fragile, etc.

Part of the reason I don't care for DnD races is that the core ones are all pretty much the same outside of minor gimmicks (eg. half-orcs can get back up on 1 hp, elves can meditate for 4 hours instead of sleeping). What's the mechanical difference between a level 10 elf ranger and a level 10 human ranger? Both probably maxed dex and assuming they rolled the same ability scores have similar ability scores and access to equipment.

If I was to use different races I would make them different. Elves could have up to 26 dexterity but their constitution maxes out at 14, half-orcs could have up to 24 strength and 24 constitution but their intelligence and charisma are limited to 16. Dwarves can have up to 26 constitution and 24 strength but their dexterity and charisma are capped at 14 and 16 respectively.

>>55237897
>Wanting your character to be awesome through inherent racial/class traits rather than roleplaying and character development

kys desu senpai

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Remember when DnD wasn't about autistic fetishists wanting to play snowflake characters that started awesome rather than being awesome through roleplaying? Pepperidge farm does.

>>55254492
Humans are the biggest snowflake race there is who simultaneously claim that they aren't snowflakes.

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>humans are the not bound to the music of creation race

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>>55237915
>if you're not playing a human then your only other option is playing some bug person with six testicles

>>55238040
As a standalone organism, we're utterly shit at adapting to changes in our local environment. What we are good at is tool creation and use plus group effort.

We only manage to be as adaptable as we think we are normally because other people are providing their effort to save time and have things ready for us when they become necessary.

>>55237302
To me, I don't mind if Humans are the versitle species. I just don't like how in D&D they're mechanically superior to all the other races and have no weaknesses. To me, the idea of having no weakness makes them less human to me.

Really, if your going to have the Versitility schtick, you need to own it out compete the other species out of that niche, and actually have to deal with the consequences therein.

Each race needs a niche they can fulfill properly, and generally you should have only one race per niche to avoid redundancy.

Further, each race ALSO needs mutliple cultural and ethnic options to help build a character off of, as well as to better flesh them out.

>>55239770
>>55240181
Humanities special trait is autism?

>>55254492

>implying 90% of people don't pick race based on what best suits their munchkin build rather than wanting to appear special and unique

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>>55256392
If he and his sons are anything to go by, then yes

>>55256913
Yeah the munchkin build of 3d6 in order.

So, where did this autistic make every race just human, or make every non-human race 100% alien come from? I know it didn't come from fantasy writer's original intent, or based on myths. Is it just from the 'stop having fun guys' group?

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>Humans
>Classification: Persistent Pursuer Predator.
>Highest stamina in the animal kingdom.
>Best heat management.
>Awful digestive track for an omnivore species.

>>55259024
>Human stamina meme.

>Best heat managment meme.

>>55259242
It's not a superpower like some seem to think it is, but it's true.

>>55259279
It's mostly a meme. When it comes to heat managment(only counting mammals), we're somewhere between third and fifth.

With pure stamina, we're obviously behind a lot of species. The thing we're best at is pacing ourselves, which makes persistence hunting possible. However, we're not even the only species that does that.

>>55259356

It is how you lead mammoths and many other monsters to extinction.

>>55255023
Elaborate.

>>55259502
It's a Tolkien thing.

>>55250132
Well, why not? All you have to do is make the other races act differently and awkwardly - make them touchy-feely, standoffish, oblivious to social signals, whatever. Humans don't need to be traders per se, but we do have highly advanced social skills.

>>55240436
>>Humans are the "favorite of the gods" race
In what game is this even the case?

Humans in my space fantasy setting are either not!mamluks or not!jews. Definitely not the versatile and adaptible race.

>>55259524
I had forgotten, thanks.

>>55259621
For what reason and what other species you got?

>>55255733
anon, of course you can play a bug person with 7 testicles, just ask

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>humans are "a medium-sized creature prone to great ambition"

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>>55259641
Just came up with the idea. The only other race I've come up with is a large and bulky anthropomorphic turtle looking race that is very IoA-ish with a decadent and deeply traditious society. Similar to the stellaris turtles in appearance.

There should be a thousand variants neo-humans in any space setting, not baseline humans. Every station that we build, ever planet that we colonize, every decade or century in isolation is going to put enormous pressure for population to evolve into new breeds of human. That's without taking into account selective breeding, genetic engineering or cybernetics.

>>55240873
>sapient but not sentient
Do you have that backwards?

How low must be the gravity of a planet before you can jump off a skyscraper and not die in the fall?

>>55259874
Depends on variables beyond merely gravity.

Stuff like air resistance matters too, ya know.

>>55259024
>Highest stamina in the animal kingdom.
>ostriches and camels literally beat humans effortlessly

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>Observe the aliens eating alien food.
>Eat alien food.
>Dies of poisoning.

>>55259949
Humans are probably the only large predator in the world capable of effective persistence hunting somewhere like the plains of Africa in the heat of the day.

>>55259758
>every decade or century
>without taking into account selective breeding, genetic engineering
Selective breeding or genetic engineering are the only way you're going to see meaningful evolutionary changes within that timeframe. You can't just toss a million people on an ice world and expect their utterly random mutations to produce a race of mammoth-men two generations later.

>>55260084

They would, because females will die/abort left and right of childbirth. See populations living on high altitudes. Colonists couldn't procreate at all until they began to mix with the natives.

>>55260131
What natives do they have to breed with, unless you've got your universe populated with near human 'aliens' that happen to be genetically compatible.

>>55260131
>until they began to mix with the natives
So, selective breeding?

>>55260079
That seems like a very specific criteria to judge 'highest stamina'. There are other persistence hunters in africa. Spotted Hyenas, and African wild dogs. There are also large animals with more stamina, like ostriches and camels, Heck, gray wolves are large persistence hunters too.

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>>55249268
Hah!

>>55237897
>Playing solely by the numbers and ignoring anything resembling character development: The Post

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>>55260161
>humans are reviled across the galaxy for their tendency to copulate with anything that will accept their genetic material and produce viable offspring

>>55237915
In anything that lets me pick a race I basically ignore humans, elves, orcs, dwarves, assorted tiny people or shit with animal ears taped onto a human skull because I'm fucking sick of them by this point.

>>55248670
That's one beautiful flumph.

>>55258900
It's stop having fun autism, normal people, that is, not /tg/, don't really give half a flying fuck what race you want to play as.

>>55238997
Cross-species fertility.

All those half-elves have to come from somewhere.

I like playing as non-human races because I don't particularly enjoy humans aesthetically. We come up with some cool makeup and clothing and stuff to make us look better but underneath all that we're lumpy, bald, spindly-limbed chimps. From a purely visual design perspective humans are lacking, in my opinion.

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>>55237302
As cancerous as HFY can be, I always thought it was a neat take to think we are the "durable" race. We may not be as fast as elves, as strong as orcs, as clever as hobbits, or as willed as dwarves, but goddamn we can take a hit.

>>55240436
In mine they're only the favorite in the sense that the gods have them as a communal reserve force that can be aligned to any purpose that they need without any of the underlying ideals that are baked into the races that were created by individual gods. They're treated nicely by each god as the mythos that has been disseminated by the gods tells that the humans' creator disappeared a while back. Since they've been "adopted" by the pantheon as a whole they are really good at religious bonding and can be riled up real easily. This also explains the adaptability part since they're expected to be near as many of the other races as possible to serve as an impartial set of checks and balances.

>>55242904
Why?

>>55240883

They don't want normal people to dismiss their arguments out of hand?

>>55237302
I am so sick and tired of humans.
EVERY FUCKING GAME is like "Okay, we have an interesting setting, now how do we fit humans into here so the mongoloids don't feel left out they can't self insert?"

>>55249544
We're only using examples that have actual evidence, anon.
Hearsay isn't admissable in a court of extinction law.

>>55240075
>>55240086
>It's only a good reason if a human does it
Fucking human apologists.

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>>55263427
Can you name a setting that would be tangibly better if everything were exactly the same except humans were removed from the setting? I'm having trouble imagining one.

>>55263556
Most science fiction.
Humans really had no place being in mass effect other than marketing required someone handsome for people to self insert into.
Also, any fantasy work that has to bend itself over backwards for humans. You know, those "Humans are everywhere so players can pick them, don't think too hard about it" settings.

>>55263570
>>55263556
It is kind of shitty how humans are everywhere in forgotten realms for no reason other than author fiat, and so they didn't have to do the work of coming up with other species cities too often.

>>55263570
>>55263580
Yeah, humans could easily be replaced by goblins or elves or orks or crab men with nothing lost in like 95% of settings.
Humans largely take the place of "self insert placeholder"

>>55263556
>>55263570
Are any settings actually improved by humans being in them?
I can't think of a single one.

>>55242904
i thought we learned how to from a dragon

>>55263556
It would be hype as hell if you replaced all humans with robots in any given fantasy setting.
Like, literally any of them you would like to choose could be improved by replacing humans with robots.

>>55259356
We're not top tier in many respects, but we're at the bottom of the top in several respects. Endurance and heat management, sure.

The true superpower we have is our ability to throw accuractely. Creatures with ranged attacks are extremely rare, particularly above insect size. Other primates can do it too but their shoulders aren't built right so they can't do it accurately. Neither could Neanderthals. So we can run forever and throw shit at you. We're persistence hunters sure, but we can back that up with damage from thrown rocks and spears even at the most primitive levels.

Additionally humans are uniquely gifted at imitation. This is basically what the other primates lack - when you give them a task they always figure it out on their own. They never follow the example of others. But this is something any sentient species would have to have, I guess. Still, we're VERY good at it and it's fundamental to how we socialize. Think of how many people follow and imitate celebrities for instance. Or look up to mythological heroes and try to follow their example. Humans are very focused on social matters.

So weak for our size, but stronger than most smaller creatures anyway. Great endurance and ranged ability, long lived and skilled at imitation and communication.

+Con
+Cha
+Dex

>>55254358
>I don't play non-human races for snowflake rp material
>I do it for snowflake character builds

You are the exact same except you are a roll player instead of a role player.

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>>55256243
>humans aren't adaptable because other humans adapt for us

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I really appreciate when games throw some non-standard races in there to offer alternate playstyles.

Hivers can't wear hats, footwear, or close to the body clothing, like humans can. They also eat about half as much. And have an organ system so different, it is almost impossible for one to bleed out due to the wet/dry nature of their organs. They're also significantly skinner on average than humans, and thus have more easily broken limbs.

Skeleton robots are significantly tougher than humans, do not need to eat, cannot wear many armors, and cannot swim. They cannot heal through normal medical kits, instead needing to use materials near 50 times as expensive.

The shek, well, they're big tough almost humans that eat slightly more and have slightly more health. Meh.

Anyone interested in a game of Microscope based on the concept of "humans as this world's kobold-equivalent" floated by >>55247600 ?

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I wonder how would an ambush hunter evolve into intelligence and what their society would look like.

>>55256243
>As a standalone organism, we're utterly shit at adapting to changes in our local environment.
?
??
???
????

>>55264113
>>55264399
He's talking about individuals Vs species you illiterate fuckwits. All of our "adaptability" is something that comes from the culmination of knowledge and cooperation, as well as breeding with phenotypes that have already been in that locality for hundreds of years. As a single individual, humans aren't all that adaptable, we just make up for it in sheer numbers and cooperative social structures

>>55264094
Or perhaps I like some variety.
>I will play a human male fighter who is an orphan and former mercenary
>I will play a human male fighter who is the 5th son of a minor nobleman
>I will play a human male fighter who is a former highwayman
Wow, such unique builds available. Why I could have 18 dex and 12 strength instead of 18 strength and 12 dex.

>>55264682
you're talking to someone that will watch repeats of a show and read garfield for multiple decades.
Some people just... don't need variety. Somehow.

>>55264743
Honestly I don't give a fuck if someone cares about roleplaying to the point where they never play "special snowflake" races or classes, but judging people for wanting builds with variety is retarded. If roleplaying is all that matters lets just drop every class except fighter, every race except human, and have every PC start with 10 in every ability score. You won't have to worry about any power-gamers ruining your valuable roleplaying games.

A large part of the reason I play is because I like making and playing builds, yes I am a rollplayer, I roleplay when I can and I am willing to take part in diplomacy as much as the rest of the party, but I dislike rules light systems because I simply find them boring just like I dislike the idea of enforcing bland builds because they apparently make better roleplay characters.

>>55264799
Nah, it's not your bad.
Those people have trouble roleplaying anything they can't self insert as.

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>GURPS is the "versatile and adaptable" system

>>55264844
Nobody said it would be easy.

>>55264844
It is though. Its tedious to work with but it is versatile and adaptable.

>>55263886
>They never follow the example of others.
This is absolutely not true. Other primates imitate each other (and us) all the time.

Fuck, even dogs are capable of imitating others.

>>55264743
You're talking to someone who likes to fuck with other players by intentionally disrupting parts of the game which focus on them by demanding the DM roll to see if his character can fit something up his ass.

Some people are just lolsorandumb attention whores. For some reason.

>rulebook has less than one paragraph on humans
>it just says that you should know what this is and you wont find anything insightful

>>55264799
>I've played so many rpgs that I've gotten bored with the options they offer and now will only play the most nonsensical snowflake shit instead of just finding something else to do like a normal person

>>55266136
I like how "I enjoy any variety at all" is lolsorandumb to you.

>>55266191
Ah, to be as young as this anon.
Those were the days.

>>55266201
>responding to the obvious shitpost

Is english not your first language or are you just retarded?

>>55237897
Other races are only useful if they do something humans in the setting don't. This can even just be having a unique culture, even if they're otherwise physiologically indistinct.

In most settings, this isn't the case.

>>55266231
>Races are only good if they don't infringe on my self insert's deal.

>>55266209
Anon I'm not even that guy but this "heh kid" shit is super fucking faggy. I'm 46 years old and I've been playing RPGs since the 80s and when I get bored with the options available in a game I just stop playing for a little while. It's what normal people do. Normal people don't throw autistic fits about how humans are boring and there's only so many ways you can min-max.

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>>55237302
>Humans are the "progressive" race

>>55266272
I'm not even that guy, and there's no way you got that old without realizing you need to vary it up in the sack and on the table if you're going to make this thing work, mr. garfield.

>>55266295
Well, he COULD be one of those people who can watch reruns for decades and still reads garfield.
Like I said, some people don't need things to vary.

>>55264610
That means we're highly adaptable as a species.

>>55266243
No, you retard.

It's a problem if races are so shallow that people CAN self insert as them. A race of wolf men that just act like Vikings are just fuel for furkin fantasy. A race of wolf men that embody some pack culture might actually offer enough breadth to create unique character concepts that you wouldn't pull off with humans in a setting.

>>55266327
Yes, yes, I know you get upset when there are other things to play other than the self insert race.

>>55266295
>literally says to exhaust the options
>HEH YOU JUST DO THE SAME THING OVER ANS OVER

Bruh, not even dat boi but you're an illiterate motherfucker

>>55266353
>he didn't read well enough to see the implication he only exhausted the human options
I'm not even that guy and I can tell you need to pay more attention.
Even in bog standard D&D there's a brillion other races.

>>55266321
Well, he COULD be one of those people who can't stand to let others have their moment and must min-max and break the setting to have fun.
Like I said some people just need to be the center of attention.

>>55266367
Yeah, you're right, he could just be a minmaxer going for that free human feat.
That's like half of human players.

>>55266365
>the implication he only exhausted the human options
>when I get bored with the options available in a game

Tell me where I ever even implied "humans only"?

>>55266373
here
>>55266272
>throw autistic fits about how humans are boring
If you've exhausted all the options, you would have moved onto playing non-human options, because you were bored of humans. By definition. Therefore, you wouldn't be casting aspersions on things you yourself do.

But, since you are casting aspersions, the implication is that you only exhausted the human options and then stopped.

>>55266371
Show me the feat that gives you unlimited flying forever for free or six arms that can all individually wield weapons.

>>55266393
That feat that gives you an extra spell slot, and holy shit why would you want that it's the world's biggest feat hole.

>>55266397
It works better if you get one of those extra warlock invocations.
Then you don't even need a spell book and don't even have a duration or limit of times per day. AND can do it when tied up.

>>55266397
>unlimites flying for free
It ain't free if it costs a spell slot and it ain't unlimited if it has a duration

>>55266411
see
>>55266403

>>55266389
Were you dropped on your head as a child?

I was "casting aspersions" on bitching about humans being boring on the internet to total strangers.

>>55266419
So you're fine with playing shit other than humans if you are bored of humans, as was the original contention.
And thus this entire continuation of the conversation is because you didn't like some guy's tone.

>>55266427
Basically. Is it any less petty than anyone else's reason to be in this thread?

>>55266440
My mama warned me about people like you. Rest her wise-ass soul.

>>55266446
Get back to me when the entirety of 4chan stops having petty arguments with anonymous strangers.

>>55266463
Honestly, I'm just marvelling about how my mother predicted 4chan in the 80s.

>>55266414
Which invocations are we even talking about? Eberron invocations have a duration and I couldn't find anything about flight for 5e invocations.

Which system has an invocation that costs no money to learn/slots to use and has unlimited duration with no conditions?

>>55266446
Was that the mama that dropped you on your head as a child?

>>55266478
He was talking in 3.5.

>>55266473
Honestly, the attitudes on 4chan are just a reflection of the world. Not throwing shade on your mom, but anyone with real life experience knows how petty people are, especially themselves.

>>55266487
Well I don't have a copy of Complete Arcane on me to reference to find out the rules behind that and google is not particularly helpful except in informing me that it does have a duration of 24 hours.

>>55266519
From what I recall, warlocks got that shit as much as they wanted.

>>55237302
>>Humans are the "versatile and adaptible" race
>not being the race of murderers, slavers, and prostitutes

Humans are pretty the only animals on earth that do all three of those things. I know higher order primates and cetaceans do as well but not on the same scale. I've always felt like that is what our true role would be in world of other races/aliens. Hit men, Prostitutes, and Slavers. Being "adaptable" is such a fucking cop out. Like other have said all other races would have to be adaptable too or else they would not reach the same playing field as us. I think it was chosen since it was just inoffensive but made us seem cooler than we are.

Truly Unique features of man
>Long childhood to develop brain more
>use money
>read/write
>believe in god (maybe?)

That is mostly it. The list doesn't really give us anything to make us a cool unique fantasy race. Pretty much anything you can think of has a counter-part in the wild. Ants farm, Beavers alter habitat to suit needs, most social animals have a rudimentary language, Elephants bury the dead, and lots of animals use tools.

Since most our actual unique characteristics are really boring and would be used by other fantasy races we're left with either being generalist or EVIL. And I don't think your system would sell well if humans were lumped in the other evil races.

In my setting humans get experience faster and live longer than some of the other races. Also in my setting you have a peak, past the peak you can no longer increase your stats and past a certain age your stats will degrade even. Humans can be any class.

Orcs naturally grow stats as well as height as they age in addition to your stat increase per level, so a high level orc is a giant 8 foot behemoth with 20+STR naturally, but peak earlier and die much sooner too, considered ancient by the age of 50. Orcs can't be Clerics, Wizards, or Rogues. Orcs eat double rations.

Half Orcs are the best and the worst of their parenthood. They get bonus experience and bonus stats as they age, but only live to 50 average with 60 being ancient. They don't get as big or strong as Orcs nor are they as fast learned as humans, but they can be any class.

Elves are literally tree people. Fae specifically. They eat half rations but require double the water. They are tall but thin and only slightly resemble other humanoids. They can't touch raw iron and take bonus damage from iron weapons even, but steel doesn't bother them. They usually use grown weapons made of enchanted wood and bark armor which is lightweight and will fix itself over time as long as the magic is maintained. Elves are natural spellcasters although their natural magic is Druidic. Elves do not grow old but have lower stat caps. Elves can't be Clerics, Warlocks, Barbarians or Rogues.

Gnomes are small but make excellent magicians, having natural magic and high intellect. They eat half rations and can live up to 120 years, not suffering stat degredation until they're about 80. They can't be barbarians and make poor melee fighters due to being size Small and having a low STR cap.

>>55263570
The whole point of mass effect was to be some kind of "possible" future, being narrated from human pov. I mean, they could have done without humans, but isn't that true of pretty much everything? "It could have been done differently if they wanted to, but they didn't". Doesn't seem to mean much.

>>55263620
World of Darkness. There wouldn't even be anything to play there without the humans.

Either way, you're all getting too caught up with how things are vs how they should be. Most of these settings were designed with humans in them from the start, so if you rip humans out now, it'll leave a nasty, unsightly hole. There are some settings, like furry worlds, which don't include humans. Are humans missed there? No, but that's just how that particular universe was designed. Are humans missed in Cars? Does it matter?

>>55266585
>most of these settings were designed for humans from the start
Yeah, hence the complaint of things bending over backwards for them.

>>55266585
Actually a thing I've really wanted to play for a long while is a mystery campaign in a world of darkness like setting.
See, the setup is a local vampire is trying to find some humans to feed on. No big deal, normal friday night. He grabs one, and is shocked to get green plant like blood. Turns out it's a pod person.
Next guy he gets a mouthfull of oil. It was a replicant.
Next one is a reptillian. No good.
So on and so on until the party is assembled, and they realize all their individual conspiracies RELY on having humans to put the wool over. So their job is now to find where all the humans have gone.

>>55266569
Dwarves are assholes. Live to 300, stats degrade past 200, and they can't be Wizards or Shamans or use magic normally unless they sign an infernal pact and become a Warlock, devote themselves to a diety and channel divinity, or shun the rock and become a Druidic follower, who are considered traitors to their race. They have a natural resistance to any kind of magic and some spells outright don't work on them. Eat double rations. They're usually between 5' and 5' 5" when fully grown, but are very stocky, usually 1.5x as wide as a man and twice as wide as an Elf.

Then there's the Felinid clans, who are a lot like Orcs in that they're a society of tribal warriors, only whereas Orcs are chaotic the Felinids are Lawful and much more honorable.
There's also three distinct kinds. The largest are the Lions, standing as tall as 8' 6" they're even stronger than Orcs, have natural weapons with their powerful claws, eat 3x rations and double water, but can't be rogues.
The Cougars are about the size of a man, have less powerful claws, but are much more lithe than their larger cousins. No class restrictions.

The Cats are size Small like Gnomes, very agile, excellent climbers and stealthy, their unarmed melee is slashing but no bonus damage. They can't be fighters or barbarians.

Their society has loose definitions of property, only tribes own things, and all is shared between a clan. They also can't be Wizards as a species, instead having Shamanistic magic. Some become Warlocks, but this will cause most tribes to banish them, one tribe exists solely as a refuge for the banished, made up of Felinids practicing forbidden magic and criminals whose crimes were not heinous enough to have them put to death.
They only live to about 40 as a species, their stats not degrading until 35.

>>55266563
>Like other have said all other races would have to be adaptable too or else they would not reach the same playing field as us
The "playing field" requires that they are adapted to their environment, not that they are versatile and adaptable in general. Most animals on Earth, if you pick them up and drop them off somewhere different from their natural habitat, they'll just fucking die. Some animals developed on rougher versions of certain habitats, so if you take them to the easier version, they just take over and become a huge issue (was it rabbits we did this with? idk).

Humans work anywhere, though it's hard to separate that from just using intelligence to make our circumstances behave differently (creating a coat of fur might not look like "being adaptable/versatile", but is it?)

Hey anons, lets play Microscope based on >>55247600
It'll be fun! Structured world-building!
I've got us started here >>55266543

>>55266621
that sounds like a World of Darkness of Darkness and it looks like great mighty fun I hope you the best

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>>55266287

>>55266637
>The "playing field" requires that they are adapted to their environment
I think he implied that by saying "our level" he meant having the ability to spread and control to multiple environs like humans.

Plus, if this were sci-fi, they definitely would have that quality, since monobiomic planets are nearly impossible once they gained the ability to support complex multicellular life