/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>55051528
Apocalypse back when it was being green peace with fur.

Was a hard back so probably 2nd edition, the front had holes in it with claw marks.

>>55051528
First for Changeling Supremacy

>>55051553
Which reminds me of 1st edition Wraith with the luminous cover! that was fucking awesome.

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Dave needs to put his naughty Magefag fanboys on timeout RIGHT FUCKING NOW

Stop ruining threads, you assmongs

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>>55051684

I'm three pages into my Mummy fapfiction.

Not as inspired as I'd hoped to be, because of how bad the Mummy corebook is.

>>55051978
Is this why the thread is slow? Everybody's writing wod porn?

>>55051482
>Creative Thaumaturgy is entirely the point of Mage, you dumb sack of shit.

It's the point of playing Mage, but in this scenario you're not playing Mage. You're playing World of Darkness crossover. These are two very different games.

And if you are voluntarily playing crossover and your first instinct to having your powers balanced against everyone else (specific xp investment = specific power gained) is to be upset that you're no longer automatically better than everyone else in every way, then you might be the problem.

Either Magefags need to learn to share, or crossoverfags need to accept that their character will be overshadowed by the Mage, and both players should be upfront about their chargen so they can avoid stepping on one anothers toes as much as possible.

>>55052039
Let's put the crossover dildos back in the box until Contagion Chronicle comes out, then unite in disliking the official way to do it.

>>55052103
>Contagion Chronicle

I have a sinking feeling it's going to be a forced, inorganic crossover akin to Beast.

>>55052036
We would be in a better place if so.

But I think they were just off arguing in the old thread.

>>55052127
Well with expectations that low, at least you won't be disappointed.

>>55052146
>at least you won't be disappointed

This is OPP we're talking about?

Idea for Mage NPC: Acanthus or Obrimos Libertine whose Awakening involved him being "sent into the distant future" and talking with "Sufficiently Advanced Aliens" (actually Supernal Fae or Angels), who showed him how he could change the world into a futuristic utopia. The problem is that his Awakening ended before he could finish talking to the Fae/Angels and writing the blueprints based on their instructions. Now he is looking to finish what he started by joining the Thaumatech Enginners Legacy and using his Blueprint Digital Scroll Artifact to find the right times and places where "alien tech and beings" can be found to further his utopic designs. His Digital Scroll Artifact has a little computer voice that gives him advice both useful and eccentric, like the titular encyclopedia from Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, or a Pokédex.

>>55052210
Thamatech Engineers, that a real legacy? From which book?
What do they do?

>>55052257
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/981289-2e-legacy-thaumatech-engineers

>>55052278
>http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/981289-2e-legacy-thaumatech-engineers
Oooooh, someone's fan thing. Cool. A bit much for an NPC unless you have some purpose in mind for them already. Sounds more like a PC, honestly.

Question magefags
There is a storm witch / wizard legacy right?

>>55052210
>Acanthus or Obrimos Libertine whose Awakening involved him being "sent into the distant future" and talking with "Sufficiently Advanced Aliens" (actually Supernal Fae or Angels), who showed him how he could change the world into a futuristic utopia.
Sounds like you've found Atlantis.

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>>55051528
I am currently running apocalypse the way god intended: As the most bonkers, fucked up, PTSD inducing military action RPG ever. You have a bunch of bronze age heroes in an endless war against the forces of the bastard love child of Tzeentch and Nurgle. Not because it's easy but because it's right and you have no choice. It's like the Ho Chi Minh Trail and the Eastern Front rolled into one with the admonition to let no one know what's actually going on. And you just fully embrace the bonkers.

>Characters stumble onto the Sabbat pack that bedeviled the characters in our vampire campaign.
>Eight cainites and four ghouls with automatic weaponry, explosives.
>4PCs plus a small Gnawer Pack.
>The Gnawer's Ahroun and Alpha got kicked out of two tribes.
>Their Theurge is a raging alcoholic of the "Drive around town with an open bottle of scotch and no seatbelt variety."
>Their Philodox is a literal retard who fights with a sharpened lawnmower blade fetish and a manhole cover strapped to his arm.
>None of this has any effect on the fact that they're hard as fucking steel
>Tell players from the outset that this is a hard, brutal game and I'm playing for sheets.
>Pour every ounce of Guerilla knowledge from eight years as a grunt into the PCs. Two players nearly lose their characters. Grenades are thrown through doorways. Everybody running for cover before the Sabbat run out of ammo at the last moment and they rush the doorway.
>One Sabbat flees, another is captured. The rest is butchered.
>Players earned their victory.
>mfw

>>55051684
Man, I'm an Ascensionfag. Don't lump us in with them. Just leave it alone, let them talk about rules and don't respond to bait.

>>55052373
>I'm an Ascensionfag

So you have shit taste then, huhhhhh??????

>>55052387
1.5/10 bait. Apply yourself.

>>55052403
your taste in relining furniture leaves much to be desired

>>55052403
You're just precious. Thinking anyone who opposes your 'shit taste' is 'bait'

Poor thing

>>55052421
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyeoW4ifNik

>>55052373
You're a brutal asshole, and I'm loving every minute of it

>>55052431
Well, yeah. You're arguing taste. That's entirely subjective.

Nigga, I was here for Aspel. You're gonna have to try harder.

>>55052452
Sorry. Your taste is filth. I am right. You are wrong.

I'm sure you guys have been asked this question before but;

What's the most powerful a normal human without become 'awakened' can become? Can they learn some kind of magic in WoD?

>>55052460
Come on man at least try. This is no fun for any of us. We've all got limp dick from last thread when anon didn't deliver vamp smut

>>55052469
There are some pyshcker merits if that's what you mean. I mean any civy with a car will hit pretty hard regardless of target

>>55052493
Why try for someone who guzzles down Brucato dick. Ascension is crap.

>>55052469
You're going to want a Conspiracy level Hunter.

Especially if you want no supernatural merits.

A TFV operative decked out in special gear, trained to fight, and loaded out for the mission, is the most dangerous a human with no supernatural powers is going to get.

Now if you don't want to be an operator operating operationally, there are relics and psychic powers as well, that use willpower instead of mana.

>>55052039
>Either Magefags need to learn to share, or crossoverfags need to accept that their character will be overshadowed by the Mage, and both players should be upfront about their chargen so they can avoid stepping on one anothers toes as much as possible.
Or you could just disallow Mages from crossover. Or, make the really smart move and don't run crossover games.

Where can you get the V5 alpha at?

>>55052210
Not for me. I have firm stances on sci-fi and magic not mixing.

>>55052445
It was part fan service because they got to get revenge on the cainites that had bedeviled them in a previous game but There was a point to it. The Sabbat, having failed their Bishop, fled north and started prepping for an invasion of Seattle, setting up safehouses and muscling in on the drug trade to provide havens and funding. They have a hook-up from Panacea Pharmaceuticals (A Magadon, inc. Subsidiary) To move opioids as part of those efforts. Because they're pretty much the unluckiest sons of bitches in the world, the pack stumbled onto their haven in one of the sunken parts of Seattle beneath the streets where both parties can cut loose with fear of breaking the veil/masquerade.
>pic related.

It was a closely run thing and there's nothing to throw the fear of god into your players like a Nosferatu Antitribu hopped up on PCP laced blood bursting through a doorway with a chainsaw while spouting badly remembered verses from the Book of Nod.

>>55052460
Meh.

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>>55052514
You are really bad at this, I just want you to know that.

>>55052577
Forgot pic.

>>55052571
Why, though? Genuinely curious.

>>55052577
>>55052586
Stop giving him (You)s, you moron.

>>55052537
>operator operating operationally
Cheeki breeki iv damke? Ave Nex Alea?

>>55052373
>Don't lump us in with them
The most supreme and prolific era of Magefagging was when Magefags couldn't stop wanking over Ascension Archmages and how they could defeat Caine, god, or how god himself might have been an Archmage.

>>55052586
>muh consensual reality

Keep living in your little world

>>55052594
They don't mix well for me, unless it's just that kind of setting.

>>55052586
>>55052577
On the one hand, Seattle, so yay.
On the other, I don't know Apocalypse, so I can't really appreciate the goodness you are throwing down here.

>>55052608
Awakeningfags were here before the MotA wars and they're still here.

>>55052618
Isn't that what we're all doing? I mean this is a thread devoted to an RPG series.

>>55052640
The Caine vs Archmage argument has been around since before Awakening.

>>55052640
>Awakeningfags were here before the MotA wars and they're still here.
Just saying, Ascensionfagging was way worse and way more pervasive while it was here.

>>55052640
Mota was written in 1999. You're not winning that argument

>>55052342
Yes

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/980550-2e-legacy-update-storm-keepers

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>oWoD

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>>55052633
Apocalypse is built around shocking, visceral, bone-crunching brutality because you are soldiers fighting a war who's prospects for victory are rapidly dimming and it's basically a death metal album cover in RPG form.

>>55052705
Hello, Aspel.

>>55052721

Its damn fun.

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>>55052721
This is correct. Just don't take a wrong turn into furry yiffing eco terrorists. They are literally the worst

>>55052750
The brutal death metal lost battalion IS the furry yiffing eco terrorists. Such is the duality of man

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>>55052750

Everyone brings up the Captain Planet memes, but they are more like those elves from MtG who 'break a bone for every twig snapped and leaf trod upon'. Except not even then. Werewolves enjoy murdering the shit out of nature's bounties with regular hunts.

What they don't like is large, difficult to control urban areas thanks to vampires and Wyrm taint. The Weaver also makes it difficult to do their spirit bullshit. But small towns and rural communities? That shit is fine.

Its less Green Peace and more rural rugged individualism and tribalism vs city-dwelling intellectuals and urban humanity devouring itself like an oroborous.

>>55052866
For every on theme game I've seen / played of Apco there were about five more of straight yiffing. I'm not saying you aren't right, just pointing out people ditch that theme for lazy wank feast more often than you'd like to believe.

It's about about a bunch of teens in a group saving the environment from rotten polluters. The meme is there for a reason

>>55053041

Going by that metric, Forsaken is about Otherkin thanks to That Book.

>>55053041

Why do you care what retards do?

>>55053081
I thought Changeling was the Otherkin splat?

>>55053105

non, Forsaken had an Otherkin book complete with buff bara bearmen and 'forest king' deer dudes with giant dicks on display.

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>>55053123

>>55053123
Changing breeds was a blue book. Not a forsaken book.

I mean, just to be technical. The book is specifically titled 'world of darkness: changing breeds'

>>55053146

Its closely related enough to Forsaken, so much that a lot of their mechanics are just Forsaken mechanics with the serial numbers filed off.

>>55053137

Its real hoss.

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/daeren/changing-breeds/

>>55053169
And it also has mage magic in there.

But yeah, it is close related to forsaken.
At the same time, blaming it on werewolf when the two aren't actually related is kind of silly.

You can make a changing breeds character that has more to do with Awakening than with forsaken.

>>55053212

It was such a bad misunderstanding of what people liked about WtA and the Fera that it comes off as this ridiculous backhanded 'compliment' both to nwod, Forsaken and Apocalypse fans all in one fell swoop.

Like, if you want easily triggered Captain Planet eco terrorists, Changing Breeds plays it up a lot harder than Apocalypse ever did.

>>55053234
Yeah. The book is a treasure trove of bad fluff.

It was okay for building your own shifters, but ignore anything that isn't a mechanics entry.

But her, DaveB liked it enough to include one of the cats in his beast story.

>>55053249

I think a lot of the Fera could fit into WtF without a lot of issues. Just tone down the Gaian mission statement each was built with and play up their connections to a Pangaean god/totem of your choice.

>>55053085
You have no idea how many times I've join a wolf game and gotten the bait and switch.

The last time I joined a Apco game the st set it up in NYC. 'oh yeah behind enemy lines really dug in' and half the game was dicking around in Manhattan park. In star gazers tree houses. We had an entire plot line about a pregnant bitch. Chirst the St had invisible houses and hobos in the fucking public space. There was No tension. and Literally every spirit was shitting out secretes and information at the drop of a hat, for spare change.

I came up with two ways to curry spirit favors. One inviting a fog spirit to a rave with a fog machine, Two Stealing batteries and hanging them from transformers for lightening spirits. I was the insane theurge. Neither got any traction. And that was after I stole a creep pasta story as a basics for a shadow secret rites. That was because one of our players dropped and the entire carrian decided to fuck us because we were short out of five. Like come the fuck on I just want to play the crazy spirit broker. I'll deal with some stupid shit just let me do the insane riddles and spirit logic

And don't get me started on the GMNPCs that just loved to show us up. Our pack tackles a wound spirit to the ground. NPC's got to slam twenty without even trying. And the literal blizzards in the park that apparently no one cares about. and then murdering the mayor's staff on park grounds. nothing was allowed to touch the GM's pretty little treehouses. Fuck it was stupid and of course we all had to live in the park. ... fucking wolves in the middle of the city. We could afford housing in the city not all of us were bone gnawers

tldr: Shit Sts soured me on Apco. And just venting

>>55053303
I don't even bother going that far. Other shifters exist. Some have a spiritual nature, some are just weird things that can change into animals.

I had a werewolf game that included a crow shifter, and whenever things got too spirit heavy he would just roll his eyes and mock the werewolves, because his shifting was hereditary magic, not spirit crap. He had no connection to the shadow.

Others did, but then again the population of other shifters was so small as to make it unimportant to the uratha until one of those shifters popped up.

(They dealt with a rabbit shifter, a bat, and a pack of coyotes).

>>55052039
>Either Magefags need to learn to share, or crossoverfags need to accept that their character will be overshadowed by the Mage
And B) is correct!

>>55052373
>Man, I'm an Ascensionfag.
Lawn chair supremacy amirite?

>>55053212
>But yeah, it is close related to forsaken.
>At the same time, blaming it on werewolf when the two aren't actually related is kind of silly.
So is it related or not? Just choose ffs.

So I'm reading the new Promethean 2nd Transmutations and alchemies and...

I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed, /tg/.

Prometheans have been completely downgraded. Even the Tammuz ability to just keep buying an uncapped amount of health levels with ridiculous EXP is gone.

All abilities are limited to +2 bonuses to armor or defense.

It's like they've been neutered.

>>55053203
>changing-breeds
That was written by Phil and was forced into a blue book, and not a core werewolf book, for good reason. It was shit. but don't think didn't fucking try to recreate changing breed into forsaken. fuck that guy is almost literal cancer. And his technical and fluff writing skill suck so hard

>>55053347
>is it or-
It is not. Done.

>>55053324
Okay, you have shit luck. How is having a shitty GM the fault of the game?

>>55053371
Oh, it totally is.

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>>55053371
>interrupting somebody in text form

>>55053355

Tried and failed miserably. At least most of the Fera had something cool about them, like Rokea Street Sharks and Kung Fu Khan weretigers and 'Totally Not a Neil Gaiman Character' Wereravens.

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>>55051528

>Have you ever played Werewolf?

Yes.

>If so, which version?

Revised Apocalypse and WtF 2e. I like the Gifts and Auspice mechanics of WtF a lot more, but Apocalypse was pretty fun too. Definitely had a slight edge in making you feel like an engine of destruction but such was the nature of being a huge stat block that does Aggravated damage on literally everything.

I've skimmed 20th, I like the lore changes that tone down the no-win grimdark situation just a little. Haven't tried the mechanics in play yet. Most look the same from Revised..

>>55053541
Corax are fucking awesome. You just use them as a weird ass fucking bird that pops in and starts pointing people in directions that you want them to go because they have a spiritual compulsion against keeping secrets from other Fera.

Want someone to point the PCs in a certain direction? Some weird ass fucking bird shows up and starts hopping around and squawking.

Want to get them a mysterious letter in the middle of the woods? The branches in a nearby tree start shaking and a fucking letter falls out? A corax did it.

The PC's need a resource to put them back on the trail? A kindly stranger leads them to a house or apartment block filled with the not!Lone Gunmen? Fucking Corax, man.

But this is the WoD and every good thing comes with a price tag so remember.

Around Corax?

You pay the tax.

>>55053462
I never said it was. As written Apco is interesting. In practice it's been a nightmare. I've had plenty of shit takes. That can happen with any game line. To put your mind to rest, before that game I actually got roped into a one shot end of the world battle.

Giant wyrm spirit coming to fuck over the coast. We all knew this was designed to kill all of us. But the pack worked together and engineered a battle plan with a bunch of low level tech and tactics. Basic cubs

I built a grabblers. one guy built a Armor ripper. and one guy built DPS and one guy built a healer. That St ran it like a MMPORPG raid. We should have fucking died. but we scratched out a win. Broke bodies and wounded souls, But the plan worked just enough. those guys were unplayable at that point but the story of a few dicks holding out for someone else, was satisfying. Like our actions and choices mattered. And thats really the whole take away now that I think about it. That was what made it a good game

We needed to last X turns, we lasted exactly X turns. We lost but at least they didn't win. that kind of victory condition

Coming off of that game I had high hopes for more good games. but after NYC I just felt salted. I went from a war movie to being forced to play house. Really it's just a tale of poor focus, and a destruction of disbelief.

>>55053603
Then why are you backpedalling?

>>55053621
Reread the statement

>>55052750
>This is correct. Just don't take a wrong turn into furry yiffing eco terrorists. They are literally the worst
Specifically the yiffing part is the problem

>>55053592
Corax are hilarious creatures.

Just pay them in little mirrors and bread.

So how does the Ordo Dracul go about founding a new chapterhouse? Do they just gather up three kindred they don't like and say "Hey, you're going here now, have some books. You get to be Sworn of the Dying Light, you, with the retard strength, you get to be sworn of the axe. And you, the oldest one, you're a sworn of the mysteries and a twilight judge now. Congratulations. Get fucking lost. Don't ever come back."

Or is there some passage somewhere I've missed?

Will there ever be new rules for Alchemy? I remember Alchemy in Tome of the Mysteries being really awful.

>>55054135
>>55054135
There are the Alchemist from promethean. They are 100% promethean cèntric because they only want to use their Pyros, but they are OK.

>>55054070
There is probably one guy who is leading the founding of the chapter house who has to request it years in advance, write a 50 page report that the territory claimed won't overlap any other territory and can support the amount of spooky draculas you are bringing with you. Approval also requires you build and maintain the hierachy expected by the bloodpopes.

I should also tell you I am a passing asshole from /tg/ who read one wiki article on ordo dracul and made my own connections from there.

>>55054290
Should have specified I meant 'in another city' with all the travel and idiocy that involves for Vampires, but you're probably not far off.

>>55054318
Here's a question: how do various monsters deal with a decaying city?

At some point Detroit isn't going to be able to support the amount of vampiric parasites that live there but San Francisco or Fort Lauderdale might be experiencing population growth. Is there a known process for Bite Flight?

>>55054587
Final death. Travel is something for Gangrel or old, rich ventrue who can afford it. There's a pretty good chance any vampire leaving the cities is going to run into real problems, either from sunlight or running into Something Else.

>>55054587
Vampires tend to avoid sucking blood from the homeless, because they wind up becoming carriers for things like herpes, HIV and things.

Would a Moros make a good friend to a Vampire?

Like a polar opposite of an Obrimos, maybe?

>>55054695
I expect that Obrimos aren't all about 'fuck you vampires', and Moros are all about 'death as the great changer', so they might be more hostile than Obrimos.

There's probably some low-wisdom Obrimos out there living with a small coterie. Their night to night activities would basically be slapstick.

>>55054587
>Detroit
Civil War into Hunters or some other outside force.
Basic Conflict of resources

>>55054621
Thats sort of ridiculous. Is there a scholarship opportunity they can apply to receive? If you're just 30 years away from making a big discovery, then certainly the grand poohbah of your state would be willing to fund your travel in return for some unspeakable favor.

>>55054863
Oh, sure, you can do that. It's just that the special requirements of vampiric travel mean to do it *right*, you're either hoofing/winging it and melding into the ground between cities or you're absurdly rich and can rent out a private jet to fly mysterious coffins around after making the jet light-tight.

I don't think there are any vampires who claim entire states, but you could beg, borrow and steal your way to safe travel, one way, sure. Or risk it by jamming yourself into a plane's belly, that sort of thing. But regular, safe travel? Gangrel, rich ventrue. Your bite flight might just involve something like 30% of the population getting ashed as they bolted from the city in half-assed transit schemes.

What is the general opinion on Thouthand Years of Night? Because my opinion is low. They spend years on this book, and as the result we just got a collection of tropes, small gallery of monsters and... little to none mechanics. 6+ lvl of disciplenes? Why would I need that for my game. Sheere monstrosity of 1000 years old cused person? Lol, no. They are just like ancilae, but older. That's just ridiculous. They know what we expected, they know that we've read clanbooks. Remember that Daeva lady, who shaped sexual preferences of an entire generation of american males using only her looks? Remeber the terror she infused in her younger clanmate? Oh, oh, how about scary fuckers from Gangrel clanbook, who just didn't recembled humans anymore? Those were really creepy, and we expected more! What have got? Detective L and 3 of his ghouls.
Complete and utter garbage. Why do we need that book if we already have much berret ancient monsters and you offer us no mechanics?

>>55054695
Yes and no. Death can defend against the powers of the Strix, but that also means that it can defend against the powers of vampires.

>>55055239
Huh. The Strix are from a lightless lower depth, a place of utter oblivion. So they're basically V:tM shadow beings from the abyss. Someone reel out a fishing rod with a coma patient on the end, see if one of the Fallen comes back.

>>55054990
It's pretty meh, like all 2e Requiem books. I somewhat like the Julii update, even if ephemerals aren't super common in my games and their weakness isn't a big one to begin with.

How do you bring Soulsteel to the Skinlands? Can it even be done? If yes, what happens to it?

Speaking of WtO of course.

>>55055329
Ask a a Banshee/Wisp to slip you through the stormwall while holding some. Or wander through a spectral hive, I guess.

I'd assume the stuff remained, but might decay in the cold hard light of day - there's already living stuff in the underworld and ghosts/wraiths on the other side of the shroud/stormwall, after all.

>>55055521
Orpheus is not present yet in our game. Isn't there an arcanos for this or something?

>>55055589
I think the Mortwights could do something with a really shitty version of Shroudrending, staying for a little bit depending on their level of the discipline. Beyond that I'm pretty sure you're fucked. Hope your ST leaves a regular path into/out of the place, or find a mummy visiting for whatever reason and stickytape him to yourself.

How do mages explain other supernatural creatures using 'magical' abilities (not within consensus) without suffering paradox?

IIRC mage game statwise vamps and werewolves even have spheres not disciplines nor gifts

>>55055873
They give them spheres because it's easier for book keeping. They usually come up with something that ties them to some primordial concept; like Vampires are agents of the Outer Dark/the Wyrm/The Devil/whatever.

Honestly the best way to use Mage Supremacy in Crossovers is have Seers following Raptor use Life to make the monsters from beyond the Tumblr Account into hitmen for use against mages of the Pentacle.

I'm thinking they'd be the polar opposite of the Hive-Souled, several Souls forced into a single body and reshaped through the iron taloned grip of Raptor to serve one goal.

>>55051528
>Have you ever played Werewolf? If so, which version?

I played an excellent Apocalypse game which was my first experience on the game.

The dm, while a grognard pixel bitching asshole, really drove home better themes for the game than the ones stated.....which at the end of the day is what one should do with WoD games because people who make them are idiots.

So the game was a heavy politic game, exploring the day to day life of the gauru and how the game is all about hubris with the juxtaposition on the kinfolk with also a dash of "having good intention doesn't make you good"

>>55053347
Magefags, everyone. Doesn't even need additional comments.

Is it difficult to run a Promethean campaign for multiple people? Really want to try it out but it seems to me it is designed for only one pc

>>55056142
A werewolf game about politics seems fucking terrible like Star Wars prequels level terrible

>>55056387

You'll need to figure out milestones for multiple characters so things might be a bit frontloaded, but other than that it's not too different from other kinds of WoD campaigns.

>>55056398
It's really not. I'm running a game where the PCs are in an area with several small Caerns. There's bad blood everywhere and no one's talking to each other. The PCs job is to get them to talk to each other because there is some next level bad shit going down.

>>55056398
>A werewolf game about politics seems fucking terrible like Star Wars prequels level terrible

I would say that is one of the few non-retarded ways to play apocalypse. Is interesting and a different beast than Vampire politics.

While vampire politics are normally constant as the persons who put them are still kicking around, Garous ones are generational, with deals, enemities and obligations set before by people 1 or 2 generations remove.

All garou want the same things defeat the nearby hive however each tribes approach the same problem differently. Its about how much one´s gonna play by the rules of the nation to get shit done. There was a very nice contrast between 2 PCs at the end of the game.

They were Fang and Gnawer. Both raised outside of the nation and very moral people who wanted to improve the nation for the better. The Gnawer was the Den father of the Fang and basically they had a friendship/mentorship going on.

But by the end of the game both character in different places. The Gnawer didnt play ball with the nation, if something was morally bad (by human standards but not by garou) he wouldn't do it and the nation had to change regardless of the danger or practical concerns.

By the end he was branded coward by the nation, shunned by his allies and his position taken from him. His pack perished and he ended up going on a suicide run against some fallen Gnawers.

The fang though, he started wide eye trying to live up the ideal of the Fangs. And then reality hit it and hard choices had to be made, he played ball and compromise his morality just so his packmates shouldn't. He dipped his feets on the garou politics, he made sure his pack, family and his Sept remained safe even if he had to live with the things he had done. He didnt discard his belief but realized he had to compromise or his belief would die with him and in the end he live a long life and die not changing the entire nation but making a little better for the next generation.

>>55052551
>you could just disallow Mages from crossover

That's just crazy talk, Anon.

If there wasn't Mage crossover, how would we demonstrate mage superiority.

>There's no doubt that Contagion Chronicles will find a way to nerf mages

>>55056533
One only run it solo, but there are rules in there to make it work well. Just make sure the players realize how Mich a promethean's powers can change between stories and you can get a lot done. Their abilities shift with their worldview.

I also recommend having character episodes. It is susans time this week to resolve her issues. Everyone gets to play of course, and the episode should need everyone's help. But we all know in advance that we are really heading toward her milestones. Any other milestones hit are just good fortune.

>>55057065
That one should have been 'I've'. I've only run it solo. Still half sleep on phone.

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>>55056387
Just have one prommie and the rest are mages whose obsession is to help a prommie become a real boy

>>55057117
Certain types of prommies are pretty good for crossover play. Especially once they get to silver, they can help fight whatever threat you come up against, and make a good tank.

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>>55053203
>Changing Breeds

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>>55057214
>>55057117
This gives me an idea. Four beta mages are competing with each other to see who can best help a sexy Galatea become human. They believe that the winner will get to bang her.

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H-how do I get a Werewolf boy friend as a Mage?

No mind control, I want our relationship to be pure!

>>55056889

>not wanting to play a crossover Mage so you can protect the lesser splats and give them cuddles afterward

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.>>55058849

>>55058933
Mai waifu

>>55058866
>cuddles

There's cuddling with the undead.

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>>55059041
Sorry, wrong image to shitpost. This was what I was aiming for. Just use mind to warp those urges from 'anger' to 'lust', et, voila.

Two threads ago some anon brought up the marvel cortex rpg., which makes me realize that cortex might be part if why I don't really have trouble crossing games over.

In any superhero game, any (like MnM too) a gm always has to be ready to challenge a group that has different strengths and weaknesses, and find ways to make the PC split labor.

For example. If you were running marvel heroic RPG and you had a team with daredevil and storm, you don't throw the whole game away just because Storm is an omega level mutant, and daredevil is a guy that can see despite being blind.

You create situations where Storm needs to deal with X, maybe even X and Y, but that means she can't possibly concentrate on Z.

Z happens to be right up Daredevil's alley.

It isn't easy, and it can mess up sometimes. But that's how you crossover.

>>55053559
>I've skimmed 20th, I like the lore changes that tone down the no-win grimdark situation just a little. Haven't tried the mechanics in play yet. Most look the same from Revised..

Most of the 20th Anniversary stuff (regardless of the splat) don't do much to change the rules.

But yeah, W20 is basically a polished version of Werewolf Revised, rules-wise at least. So, if somebody didn't like the rules in Revised, they're not gonna like 'em in W20.

I do like that they try to clean up the grimderp bits in the 20th versions though, while still trying to maintain a tone of grimdark.

I mean, I like dark settings as much as the next guy, but not when it means I have to assume everyone is holding idiot balls.

>>55059379
Then you're not running a crossover, you're running simultaneous solo games

>>55059402
I know this isn't a competition.
But I want to let you know that's the stupidest thing said in this thread so far.

(Which is amazing, because we were talking about changing breeds earlier)

>>55059391

Yeah, the write ups seem smarter in general. In the opening comic they left an out in the prophecy saying there is a *chance* they might win or at least survive the Apocalypse if they stop being idiots. No guarantees though.

I like that better than the earlier full stop 'you cannot win, your fight is meaningless' nihilism of the 90's.

>>55051528
Why do I feel like a Woof version of this would be funny?

>>55059653
Misquote?

Fourth Wall Awareness (Persistent Condition):

Effect: The character with this Condition gains a +3 Perception bonus to predict conflicts. They may use the Common Sense Merit once per scene without rolling for it or purchasing it (they are considered to acquire an automatic Exceptional Success). However, they suffer a -1 to Resolve rolls, as their knowledge of their fictional nature makes it hard for them to care. Furthermore, the character rolls their Resolve + Composure once per chapter during a scene determined by the result on a 1d10. For each Success, they gain a measure of independence: they may perform one Action of any type that must be against what the ST or Player would normally make them do.

Beat: When the character acts to defy narrative conventions at risk to themselves.

Resolution: ???

>>55060139
>Resolution: The character falls silent and immobile for 15 minutes because the player is fed up of everyone's shit and went to get a beer and smoke

>>55059768
No, I'm seriously imagining a Woof getting annoyed at his packmate for being distracted by snow.

>>55060645
Ooooh

I see what you mean now.

Your favorite games you've played or read, from top to bottom.

For me:
Hunter :tv
Promethean :tc
Werewolf :tf
Demon :td
Changeling :tl
Mage :taw
Vampire :tr
Mummy :tc
Geist :ts

Haven't read or played:
Beast
All of oWoD

>>55061678
Vigil
Requiem
Masquerade and Hunters Hunted
Forsaken
Geist, Orpheus, Promethean and Lost seem interesting, but I never really played them.

>>55062005
Geist is interesting, and I think it will probably get real good with 2e. It is just incomplete.

Lost was WW's little surprise last time. It was a lot better than it deserved to be, and is a real enjoyable game and world.

Promethean is strange. Good but strange. While I put it super high up, I wouldn't say everyone should play it. It is possible to read it and hate it, and that probably means it isn't for you. Not for anything super out of place, just because it requires building a campaign in a weird way.

>>55062005
What is Hunters Hunted?

>>55062078
Mortal hunters going after oWoD vampires, separate from those of Reckoning. Basically Vigil with fewer powerful conspiracies.

>>55062104
Wait what, there were TWO lines of hunters in oWoD?

Weird. I am really only aware of Reckoning because it has a video game.

>>55058849
>werewolf boyfriend

vampire boyfriends are better, according to anne rice, destroyer of genres.

>>55062128
Would Vampire fiction be more respectable had she not written anything, you think?

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>>55062128

Vampires do not;

>have fluffiness to cuddle into
>bring you home fresh organic food for you
>staunch loyalty; will NOT die for your honor
>zealously ward pests off your territory
>beat up mean spirits for you
>make cute fetish gifts for you
>enjoy your pets and rubbies
>give you the knot


Really, how can leeches even compare?

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>>55058849
>>55062225

>intersplat romance

>>55062275

The penchant for bestiality and necrophilia is disturbing.

>Disappointed Mage,jpg

>>55062225
>give you the knot
Can't vampires use protean to have a knot?

>>55062442
No, last I checked they can only use this to turn into puddles of blood or clouds of exsanguinating mist.

Granted, if your into receiving a Blood Enema this could be the Discipline for you!

Also I think the Novegi could chain the ability to turn into a pool of blood with their Unique Discipline and turn into a roving bed of Bloodsucking-Vitae-Murderlego.

Does Forsaken have a Lupus equivalent?

>>55062683
>Does Forsaken have a Lupus equivalent?

No, there's no lupus or metis equivalent in Forsaken 2e.

Only humans undergo the First Change.

>>55062683
The disease?

Why do people even play Werewolf?

>>55062774
Werewolves that were born as wolves, not humans. Like Tera from the Dresden Files.

>>55062910
It is cool, you get to deal with strange outsider creatures, try to be the balance between nature and man, and when the situation calls for it you get to rip and tear.

The setting of the game is just awesome. Getting to run through the shadow reflection of some terrible deed, like walking through the aftermath of a mass shooting and seeing murder, anger, and fear spirits all ripping into each other.

Then you can also get to fight spiritual gods, or face off against their heralds and courts, to protect the human world that doesn't even know what good you are doing. All in the name of your bros, your pack.

>>55062924
I didn't read Dresden Files. So we're talking a wolf, that one day was like 'lel I can shapeshift into a human now'?

Strange. Kind of hot too.

>>55063041
Sounds gay

I think I'll stick to Mage

>>55063061
That's fine. Wouldn't make sense to play something you wouldn't enjoy.

>>55063082
Stop being so pleasant

I just called your favorite splat gay
Now do something about it

>>55063109
Okay.

What happened in your best mage game?

>>55063164
I one-shotted an Elder

Because that's what Masters do

>>55063193
What spell did you use?

>>55063284
An Unmaking Rote, what else?

>>55063321
Yeah but what kind?

>>55063164
>What happened in your best mage game?

My hermetic mage won a hand to hand duel with a Fenrir, without magic.

>>55063356
Forces 5

>>55063418
What did it do?

>>55063458
Annihilation

>>55063380
That's oWoD stuff yeah?
I don't know what either one means.

>>55063482
How? What did you Unmake?

If you use your Dedicated Tool to reduce Paradox, can you use it as a reflexive yantra at the same time?

>>55063482
This entire chain shows how boring Mage and its players are.

>>55063906
It's obvious shitposting, you moron. I doubt he's ever actually played Mage.

>>55063965
Falls within how you usually act. If it's indistinguishable from a 'real mage', what's the difference?

>>55063572

In nwod terms: my mysterium obrimos beat a blood talon elodoth rank 4 in a hand to hand duel without magic

>>55064065
I don't even understand your point. You think
all Mage campaigns are just Masters running around Unmaking things?

>>55064216
yes

>>55064072

Why ever would an Obrimos engage in hand to hand combat with anyone, no less a werewolf, and how would he survive such combat without any magic?

I'm a bit confuzzled. What's the difference between aggravated and unmaking?

>>55064329
Four dots inflicts Lethal to Aggravated in damage.

Five dots outright kills the target.

>>55064329
Unmaking just deletes the target.

>>55064280
Unmaking isn't all that great. If the opponent is the same level as you or stronger more often than not they will just withstand your unmaking spell.

>>55064216
I think all mage games are full of insufferable pratts who are obsessed with 'winning the RPG' and jacking off under the table over fixing everything that would have any amount of conflict for other splats with a snap.

>>55064456
BAHAH, by the almighty powers of DaveB, the chances of acquiring an Exceptional Success is a nigh certainty.

The fucking math checks out
>http://anydice.com/articles/new-world-of-darkness/

>>55064456
Exceptional Successes grant the option to bypass Withstand.

>>55064464
Based on what?

>>55064456

A master has a base dice pool of at least10 before any Yantras or other bonuses or tricks like Rotes, Praxes, etc.. An Exceptional Success bypasses Withstand. Supernatural tolerance traits don't count for anything in Mage.

No matter how scary you think you are, do not fuck with a master mage.

>>55064456
Withstand against unmaking is as most 5, unless your power stat is above 6 as well as a resistance attribute. Even without exceptional success ignoring withstand its fairly easy to over come Withstand with only a single reflexive yantra.

>>55064464
If you think this is bad you should see pathfinder or fuckers that still play 3.5

>>55064464
>have any amount of conflict for other splats with a snap.

If you've read Mage 2e, you might have noticed that other splats really aren't the intended antagonists for mages. The powers that might trounce a vampire or werewolf are not nearly as impressive as Mage antagonists such as anti-reality horrors, demigods and other mages.

>>55064510
Working at a game store, you talk to a lot of gamers from all game systems. I don't really know why you asked that, because you won't believe anything I said anyway.
That being said, if you've read even the last few generals, you'd have more than enough examples.

>>55064550
Wasn't this brought up a few threads ago, and the biggest Mage antagonist that was brought up was another mage?
And since THAT mage was so powerful, the PC mages have to be powerful too, and it's a perfect circle of powergaming douchbags.

>>55064570
>because you won't believe anything I said anyway.
You're right, I won't. But even if it is true, wow, limited anecdotal evidence and the internet. Definitely enough conclusive evidence to make sweeping generalizations about an entire player base.

>>55064598
>And since THAT mage was so powerful, the PC mages have to be powerful too,
Why would you think this? You do realize that plenty of stories and games have protagonists and players in conflict with enemies much, much stronger than them, right?

No shit, fucking Soul Cage has Masters as antagonists to a weaker Cabal if you want an actual example of this in practice. Some people just have no creativity at all.

>>55064598
The best part is that the same line can be used to describe a lot of the game lines.

>Werewolf
Anti-reality horrors, demigods, and other werewolves
>Changeling
Anti-reality horrors, demigods, and other changelings
>Promethean
Anti-reality horrors, demigods, and other prometheans

Except Vampire. No demigods there.

>>55064515
Or you have something that boosts your Stamina rolls. Or uses Willpower. Or some way to ensure that your Withstand roll is going to be successful.

Yes, you can one shot any other splat easily but it's not going to be THAT easy against someone who has as much exp invested.

>>55064658
>Anti-reality horrors
I'd say only Changeling can lay claim to that. Werewolf and Promethean, not so much.

Mage goes the furthest with 'muh reality'
Mummy and Demon both being second behind them.

>>55064708
Werewolves face twisted things that shouldn't exist from the shadow all the time. Spirits of concepts that no longer exist, bent on destroying all that we have. That fits the bill.

Promethean enemies seem to be some sort of anti-life itself. Wanting to suck up and destroy the spark of life. Once again, also twisted things that shouldn't exist.

>>55064708
Idigam are a thing. And according to the Demon GM guide they might be baby God-Machines.

>>55064608
Hey, pointed out it was a trap question, you freely admitted that it was indeed a trap question. Didn't even try and hide it, I'm a little impressed.

The personal real life experience sure is anecdotal, but the mage players in this general have acted like nothing but boring, powergaming, pratts, and this is evidence available to everyone who can read this.

>>55064658
Yeah, but Mage is quite evidently the line laced with reality horrors the most.

>>55064884
Nnnnnnot really?

I mean, show your work.

>>55064884
Yes. We get it. The Abyss.

>>55064783
The general is hardly reliable either. No way of knowing which ones even play Mage or just use it as primo shitposting material.

>>55064531
Anon, they are the exact same kind of people, and it's the exact same kind of twattery.
I've played enough 3.PF to know the type, and it's always "My caster can do xyz things and win the game (provided that absolutely everything is tilted in my benefit and I have access to all possible tools that give me advantage when I need them to be)!".
It's borne on the backs of people who don't play games, but like to crunch numbers, and they like games that give them numbers rather than games that expect you to play the fucking thing.
The actual mage players have nothing to do with the power level arguments, they know better.

Isn't Mage more 'anti reality' than 'reality horror' ?

I guess in a sense that just makes it the most horrifying.

>>55064967
Ah yes, no way to tell the real mage assholes from the people only pretending to be mage assholes. The question is: of they're indistinguishable, what's tree difference?

>>55064901
Well, the Abyss is literally anti-reality, literally, and it's key in essential fluff and mechanics. Paradox, such as it is, is one of three main hindrances on magic, and Gulmoths, Acamoths, and other abyssals are main antagonists.

>>55065017
Again assuming that the entirety of Mage's player base is nothing but shitty powergaming assholes. This was fun. Enjoy your bias.

>>55065065
Give me one example in this general, I'd love to know there's at least one out there.

>>55065029
>Paradox is a hindrance
>Laughing mages.jpg

But anyway, sure the abyss is a type of anti-reality. But they aren't the only one. I don't think they have any greater claim to that designation than some of the other horrors in the game.

I always think of them as more of boundary demons and outsiders.

>>55065095
Somebody just a couple of threads ago stated he was building a character for a 2e Mage game and that he was prioritizing characterization over boosting Gnosis with merit points.

>>55065102
>But they aren't the only one
Nobody is saying this

>I don't think they have any greater claim to that designation than some of the other horrors in the game.
This is the Abyss we're talking about

>>55064316

Because we were defending a group of shapeshifting sorcerers from furry justice in our node. While the rest of the cabal covered the physical side i was in the spirit world.

In nwod terms i had forces 2, gnosis 2 and spirit 2. But unlike nwod i had a paradigm so shit like turning off gravity wasnt on the table. I was a fireball to the face mage.

So while we prepare, my mage made bonfires to have fire to draw from. When the woof came, 4 from the spirit side, my character was fuck because economy of action.

Throw the first fireball to the blood talon and almost burn his face off (fire does aggravated to supernatural in owod but also werewolf claws).

The blood talon drops his sword and offers a honorable duel. My character was fuck either way but had 4 in brawl with an specialization in karate (he was a former cobra kai) so he goes along.

Werewolf takes human form but woofs in owod have multiaction and he uses them but he had shitty rolls. My character have amazing rolls and wp to spare so he knocks the woof out.

>>55065165
No, he was arguing that you need not ONLY max out Gnosis because you would still be relevant power-wise even with a balanced, thematic spread.

>>55065179
Okay, we're talking about it. Talk about it.

>>55065226
I'm not playing this game.

>>55065102
>>Paradox is a hindrance
>>Laughing mages.jpg
Such as it is. It's not like you can avoid it entirely either. It's not as outright punishing at it used to be, but avoiding consequences costs resources or not flinging around power you don't have. This "Paradox is worthless" meme is annoying. Just because your Mage doesn't fuck himself out of existence doesn't mean it's not a concern. Your ST can fuck you up however he wants if you slip up, in escalating degrees.

The Abyss is also literally, explicitly, a force of anti-reality.

>>55065283
You literally have to beg for Paradox, or screw up in a way that is a rarity across games.

It isn't a hindrance because you have to not only beg your ST to rape your ass as you hold it open, but then the paradox has to land a success on a meager dice pool.

It.is.not.a.hindrance.

>>55065225
>Words cannot express how little I care about having a head start in magical power. What I care about is building a character with traits that can be reflected and used in play without having to wait to buy them when he should already have them.

>Character I'm building for an upcoming 2e game is Chinese American. Half and half, mom immigrated to the states with her grandmother. He's bilingual, speaks Mandarin as well as English. He's going to be Mastigos, so it's not even especially useful, but he's going to have it as a merit from the start. Part of his backstory involves being a runaway, so he'll have one dot in Alternate Identity from the start. I also want him to have a Familiar, Mentor, and Sanctum, right from the start. Depending on how things go he might also have Contacts, right from the start.

>This isn't being a "pro roleplayer", it's just being a regular roleplayer.

Nothing here about being relevant powerwise. Just characterization. He also literally points out he's buying a redundant merit just for characterization. Alternate Identity would also be redundant. Mind.

Posts are from the previous thread. Go look.

Question about Promethean 2e: can you follow more than one Role at the same time? If yes, can they be from different Refinements?

>>55065283
It's not a hindrance compared to the power you possess.
It's like 40k rpg psykers, where you are without a doubt one of the mightiest archetypes in the game, but have both mechanical and setting drawbacks that rein them in to the point where common advice is "DON'T use your psyker powers if you can avoid it". It's not a matter of if reality will get you for your power, it is when, and just how bad.
I've seen pcs get possessed and murder the party, blow up (repeatedly), vanish outright, or set the local community after them for revealing the witch among their ranks.
THAT is how you balance out incredible, versatile power, not the milquetoast shit written by an ascended dicksucker.

>>55065370
No, only one role at a time.

>>55065165
You know what? Good enough for me.
Give that one mage a gold star and a high five.
#NotAllMages

>>55065305
>You literally have to beg for Paradox
Or slip up, or be stupid, or be in a very dangerous situation where you NEED to instant cast the spells available to you with more power.

Dice pool wouldn't be meager, either. For every Reach you don't have, your Gnosis is added to it. You can take three off it with your Dedicated Tool and a mana point. Containing Paradox gives you resistant bashing damage, which means it wouldn't be good to do too much in a dangerous situation. One success on a Paradox roll (and even with a dicepool of zero you still roll a chance die) you get a Paradox Condition, which means wonderful things like every spell you make rolls Paradox, or that you can't contain it, or whatever else your ST can think of. It also means he can weaken your spell. What's more, it's cumulative. Every Paradox roll in a scene is worse than the last. Two successes means an anomaly. Your ST can warp your spell however he likes.

Just because Paradox doesn't buttrape you anymore doesn't mean it isn't something to worry about. Or is it just that every other spell doesn't have to roll Paradox means it's nothing to you?

>>55065189
>In nwod terms...

Were you playing some odd amalgam of CofD and oWOD with a host of houserules and revised setting?

While you can certainly change whatever you want in your games, they don't really reflect or provide any insight in RAW Mage 2e.

>>55065503
>Or is it just that every other spell doesn't have to roll Paradox means it's nothing to you?

This.

And if you are talking about a chance dice as a real threat...

I mean, you're making mages look bad when you pretend they are so afraid of paradox as is. The other splats have to deal with much worse on a regular basis.

>>55065503
>Just because Paradox doesn't buttrape you anymore doesn't mean it isn't something to worry about.
No, it means it is far less of a deterrent, far easier to contain, and that makes it less dangerous to incur even in a bad situation because mages have a half dozen ways to meep meep the fuck out if they really need to.

Is there an RPG which is like Mage the your character is has control over creation/reality but the fluff is based more on Catholicism and their concept of God and existence? Concepts such like God being the non-contingent existence and the absolute standard of epistemological "good" in all the universe. Characters have the gift of the Divine light from GOD. GOD whose very existence is "to be". Not the GOD who is an old man with a white beard who lives in the sky. I guess the characters would be "Saints"? The character channeling the Creative Divine light of the Blessed Trinity?

>>55065577
Naw, because god said to stop doing magic. So nevermind.

>>55065577
Probably since Catholicm is filled with paganism and superstition

>>55065419
>>55065541
How are Mages supposed to develop Hubris if Paradox beats them over the head so much that they're cowered into not using their magic unless absolutely necessary? You don't understand how Awakening does things.

>>55065553
You seem to forget that the foremost antagonist for Mages is other Mages. Space escapes can be shut down with Ward. You can be followed into Twilight or the Shadow. If you escape, they can find you again. You also ignored the fact that one success on a Paradox roll can make you unable to contain it at all, or make every spell you cast roll Paradox.

>>55065630
Because the idea is supposed to be that despite great risk, you STILL think you are powerful enough to contain it, ignore it, overcome it.

No one cares if you climb up a molehill and proclaim yourself a mountain climber.

>>55065577
See, that sounds like a huge change. In the CoD, there are no definitive answers to the big questions about the cosmology, such as whether YHWH exists and/or created everything, etc. Mage is built upon three main pillars: Gnosticism, Platonic Forms and Jungian Archetypes. You can definitely have a Mage who believes he is Saint who is channeling YHWH's might (they would likely be Obrimos), but whether they are right is something that would be revaled during play, if at all.

>>55065630
>How are Mages supposed to develop Hubris if Paradox beats them over the head so much that they're cowered into not using their magic unless absolutely necessary?
Because you are confusing fluff with sound mechanics.
>You seem to forget that the foremost antagonist for Mages is other Mages
Yes, and those mages rarely roll by themselves.
>You also ignored the fact that one success on a Paradox roll can make you unable to contain it at all, or make every spell you cast roll Paradox.
And the game, NOW, gives you all manner of ways to skirt that.
> Space escapes can be shut down with Ward. You can be followed into Twilight or the Shadow. If you escape, they can find you again.
And whoever you are against must be equipped to do those things, which they damn well may not be.
You are now assuming the same theoretical omnipotence troll mage players do

>>55065674
I mean, even if something was 'revealed', it would probably just be their own interpretation of the supernal.

>>55065666
Mages don't pat themselves on the back for overcoming Paradox. They think that you're a fucking idiot if you incur it.

>What's with that nasty bruise, Timmy?
>I went too far on a spell, had to hold back the Abyss.

The imminent reply would be:
>You fucking idiot.
Not:
>Good job!

>>55065630
>Mages need to be powerful to fight their antagonists.
>The formost anagonist for Mages is other Mages.

>>55065737
So again we come back to the fact that most mages won't even have a problem with it, and won't face it at all.

Cool.

>>55065719
>Because you are confusing fluff with sound mechanics.
It's thematic consistency.

>Yes, and those mages rarely roll by themselves.
Okay?

>And the game, NOW, gives you all manner of ways to skirt that.
You can contain it for bashing damage, which is the only surefire way to do it. A Paradox pool can be depleted to 0, but the risk would still be there. One success, Paradox Condition. Unable to contain or every spell rolls Paradox, as standard examples. Your ST can create any condition he wants.

>And whoever you are against must be equipped to do those things, which they damn well may not be.
It's just as likely that they could be. I left it open because there are a number of ways. I didn't say all Mages can do all of those things, you moron.

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If you want to end stupid ass mage supremacy remember these key words Rebuke the Vizier.

>>55065767
Wrong. You're considered an idiot because you're expected to be wise with your magic. In the pursuit of Obsessions and Mysteries, you're more than likely to brush up against Mages or other dangers that could pose a considerable threat to you and tempt you into spending power you don't have.

>>55065767
Exactly. Mages, their powers, their downside, their antagonists, are all boring.

>>55065577
Sounds like a perfect OWoD mage paradigm for the Celestial Chorus

>>55065805
Meh. Without a way to keep a spell turned off, it isn't the craziest thing in the world.

Actually, considering it is Tier 3, it isn't nearly as impressive as some of the other Utterances.

Though it would be hilarious in the case of a mage that was using magic to stay alive.

>>55065805
>"Oh no! An anti-magic used by a non-Mage!"
>"Better use my anti-anti-magic, AKA Prime, or any Arcanum specific to its purview"

It's an annoying stereotype that wizards don't also have access to anti-magic or ways to counter even that.

>>55065805
>Rebuke the Vizier.
What does it do? Cancel magic? Mages would still have access to Legacy Attainments, which aren't considered magic.

"He Fell when he decided that his talent for battle should be used for more than just pointless bloodshed ordered by an uncaring, false god. He willingly trades info with and fights Angels, for his Vision of Hell consists of becoming such a righteous and mighty champion that he will be able to enter Heaven, say to the God-Machine "MY will be done!" and rip the Demiurge apart. This would allow the return of the True Creator and set right all the wrongs in the universe, or so he believes."

Could this work as a Destroyer Saboteur/Integrator?

>>55065518

No, we were playing owod but the anon who i was responding too say he didnt knew jack about owod

>>55063572

>>55065922
Saboteur seems good. Though as far as Integrators go, that's one of the better concepts I've heard. Since to everyone else he would appear like a saboteur, only to be like 'lel, got you, I was secretly trying to integrate this whole time. See you nerds!'

>>55065788
>You can contain it for bashing damage, which is the only surefire way to do it
Even then, rolling to contain can still slap you with a Paradox Condition if the Paradox roll still gets a success. Each success canceled by Wisdom also deals one resistant bashing damage.

Any word on the V5 playtests from GenCon?

>>55066023

Not a peep, which is weird. No public release, the store where you can buy it for a dollars is broken. Maybe GenCon players are all under NDA?

>>55065902
It's a supernatural power so it won't work
>>55065901
Utterances are specifically unable to be counterspelled. Try again retarded mage fag.

>>55066153
Don't need to counter the spell itself to make it a non-factor

:^)

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Hey guys, does anyone know if an unofficial translation of Vienne by night exists?

>http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/63467/Wiener-Blut-Wien-bei-Nacht

Officialy is only in german, and I don't speak it.

It's my first time running Vampire The Masquerade in a big city that I don't know (we usually do our hometown) and europe doesn't receive a lot of love in the Cities by Night series... america feels too much alien for us as a setting.

Alternitavely, how exactly does an ST goes about building a city? What's the modus operandi?

>>55066153
Why would the Mage need to counter the Utterance? That's probably the least efficient thing to do.

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>>55066153
>Utterances are specifically unable to be counterspelled

They can incur a Clash of Wills, and guess what splat has CofW coming out of their pointy hats.

Speaking as a Magefag I kinda hate some of the Magefags who post in these threads.

Yeah, on a 1:1 comparison, Mages are 'better' and 'more powerful' than the other guys, but that's not the reason I play them. I love them because they're weird and awesome. The way the spell-casting is vaguely free form while rewarding learning specific spells/rotes is by far my favorite casting style I've encountered in a tabletop.

I also love the idea of Paradox (even if the execution seems off to me sometimes), and how it forces mages to (in theory) really think about how/when to use their powers instead of just trying to out WIZARD their problems.

I love the themes involved, and it kinda pisses me off when I see the dickwaving involved. All the splats are cool in their own way, stop actively trying to make everyone hate and shit on my favorite splat because you can't wrap your head around the fact that the fuck-mothering 'Storyteller System' is about creating drama and intrigue and not how your amazing Sorcerer dick of +1 irrelevance is about as useful and welcome as a vegan at a barbecue.

>>55066153
>It's a supernatural power so it won't work
Legacy attainments are considered natural phenomena and can't be directly countered

>Immune to Countering and Supernal Dispellation:
>Legacy Attainments cannot be attacked with countermagic or Dispellation. They can be undone based on the specific effect they create, however, but are considered no different than natural phenomena.
p.198

>inb4 mage op pls nerf
Joining a Legacy is supposed to have advantages, and not all attainments are groundbreaking win buttons.

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>>55066198
They aren't beating out a Mummy with a 10 In their supernatural when they only have a measly 5 or 6

Can anything Mummy-related even be taken at face value?

I recall that one Utterance that supposedly killed even Archmages, until Dave stormed in and declared it to be wrong.

>>55066173

>Building a city

In the Dresden Files core book there's a great bit about building a city as a group. It's not WoD strictly speaking, but it'd take no effort to translate over and it's the best version of the thing you're asking for by a lot.

>>55066221
I kind of feel bad when I participate in these arguments. I just point out what the book says and I try to avoid speaking in terms of white rooms, but I know it'll be taken as Mage Supremacy posting anyway.

>>55066222
Sure other mages can't dispel attainments but a Utterance definitely can

>>55066232
You realize Mages and Mummies are polar opposites in the highs-and-lows category, right?

Mummies decrease in power
Mages increase in power

I might as well match your Sekhem 10 Arisen with a Gnosis 10 Master.
Or god forbid, an Archmage.

>>55066235
>It's only ok when Mages can do it!
Fuck dave

>>55066235
Well yeah, but only because DaveB is the biggest fanboy of them all.

He didn't say it was wrong, he said that Mummies are still on 1e mechanics and so it isn't clear if it would work the same with 2e mages.

Because whenever he doesn't have an answer that is 'mages win' he says 'I don't know' and lets his fanboys do the rest.

>>55066256
If the Utterance no sells supernatural powers, it does not affect Legacy Attainments as they're explicitly considered natural phenomena. The distinction between Supernal Dispellation and Countering is important. If it was just Mages who couldn't counter them, it would just say "Immune to Dispellation" instead of "countermagic" "countering" and "Dispellation".

>>55066267
How many gnosis 10 masters are there smart guy? ALL Arisen start out with a 10.

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>>55066271
>He didn't say it was wrong
He kind of did, though.

>>55066307
You interpret how you want and I'll interpret how I want. Plus most attainments are pretty shit tier anyway. Unless you have an unmaking attainment it won't matter much in a fight againts one of the Deathless.

>>55066311
>How many gnosis 10 masters are there smart guy?
Not him, but probably not a lot. You might as well just go for Archmastery by that point, and the numbers on Archmages, iirc, is that there are less than a hundred.

>>55066311
Considering how rare the Arisen are, it's somewhat irrelevant. Also the fact that Gnosis 10 Masters wouldn't weaken, while a Sekhem 10 Arisen would.

>>55066324
Which means he doesn't like it. But he doesn't get to rewrite the rules of another book just because he didn't like their interpretation of his splat.

Out of curiosity, how strong are you guys' PC(s) in general?

>>55066339
No, it's not that. It's because of how they work in Imperial Mysteries. It's entirely counterproductive to their existence. It's like saying a poptart is a rock and being ok with it.

>>55066330
>You interpret how you want and I'll interpret how I want.
Well, I mean, the text is right there. I copied and pasted it right from the book and provided the page number. Legacy attainments aren't supernatural. I also wasn't arguing that Attainments would be enough to beat them, just that they can't be directly countered.

>>55066330
I'd bet on a prepared Master over a Mummy any day

lol

>>55066337
>>55066311

Out of curiosity, what's an Archmaster? And what makes the different from a really high level Mage?

New to WoD, hadn't seen the term before.

>>55066339
Impressive hypocrisy. Dave can't dictate how another splat works, but somebody else can dictate how his works?

>>55066340
He's a mage, I guess I don't have to tell how strong he is??

>>55066391
If Dave got to PUBLISH another work that elaborated on how it actually works, cool.

But Dave doesn't get to piss and moan about it on 4chan and be taken at any value. His 4chan posts aren't canon.

So we just have to wait for him to publish something I guess.

>>55066412
People like to listen to Dave because he's open with the fans and has written for every single gameline other than Hunter.

He's, for all intents and purposes, the lorekeeper of CofD. He also flat out states when his opinions are non-canon.

>>55066340

Mine's not that impressive, but I have a friend who can be accurately described as 'Werewolf Doomguy' who absolutely destroys everything the ST doesn't specifically make to counter him.

Which isn't me talking shit, and nobody hates it, but we spend enough time not doing combat and/or fighting low level shit as a group that we forget the sheer 'rip and tear' he's capable of.

>>55066354
Even for a food analogy that was especially retarded

>>55066435
His opinions are always non-canon. Why would he need to state it?

Do you mean he tells people when he is just giving an opinion?

Also, Dave worked on Mummy. He probably should have double checked the book before letting it go out if he didn't think they were doing Archmages correctly.

>>55066383
>Archmaster?
In CofD it's a Mage that has undertaken a second Awakening to forge a superior connection the Supernal Realms. That's how Mages do magic. They draw down power from the Supernal Realms through a connection between them and the Watchtower of one of five realms. They make that connection during an Awakening.

Becoming an Archmaster is an involved process, but completing it gets you 9 Ruling Arcana and one that you can use to cast spells from the Imperial Practices, spells that are above and beyond the scope of the regular 13 Practices. A really high level Mage doesn't compare.

>>55065805
Isn't that name wrong? It should be Rebuke the God

>>55066337
There are definitely way more arisen than there are gnosis 10 masters

>>55066412
First of all, how does this Utterance even work? What is it? Somebody show it to me, please. It could actually already go against what's published.

>>55066483
Most of which are asleep, yes.

>>55066470

That's actually really interesting. where are the rules for this?

Like which book? Don't think it's one of the Core ones, I would've remembered that.

>>55066270

Yeah, what would Dave know about Mage and Mummy rules. He not only wrote for both lines and is developer for Mage 2e, but he actually developed the *official* Mage / Mummy crossover rules in Dark Eras Companion.

Dave might be lizard-loving bastard, and you might personally believe Mage's rules and setting are the work of dark forces, but concerning certain matters, Dave knows of what he speaks and for all intent and purposes, his rulings are the Word of (CofD) God.

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>>55066505
Imperial Mysteries. The book responsible for the majority of Mage hate in nuWoD.

Have fun.

>>55066517
Mind you, it is from 1e. It could probably use a mechanics update. But I believe the devs said most of it works the same?

But yeah, older book.

>>55066508
Bitch I didn't say your boyfriend didn't know the rules. I was implying that he is a biased and arrogant piece of shit which he undoubtedly is you know since he posts on 4chan.

>>55066340
Destroyer at 2 Primium at the moment. Had to play the muscle of the group. We do not get into physical conflict a lot (it is pretty much crossover game but Werewolf aspects aren't very prominent) but when we do I manage well. Popped an angry Gangrel like a zit once.

>>55062118
>TWO lines of hunters in oWoD?
Not really, Hunters Hunted was basically just a supplement for Vampire, but there were a lot of other Hunter-esque books.
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Year_of_the_Hunter

>>55066535
Dave said the Imperial Practices work precisely the same, yeesh. Only minimal updates being needed. Quintessence as a specialized Yantra, etc.

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>>55066517
>multiple people thought this cover art was even remotely acceptable

>>55066560
It works as a stopgap measure. But like most things 1e, it could use an update.

>>55066383
>Out of curiosity, what's an Archmaster

They are the "epic-tier" for mages, and are described in one of the last Mage 1e supplements co-written by DaveB, Imperial Mysteries. Archmages and their abilities are also referenced in Mage 2e corebook.

Dave has indicated that except for a few necessary second edition/CofD tweeks, archmasters are effectively the same, if not a little more buff, in 2e canon.

Read Imperial Mysteries. It's one of the best Mage supplements, with implications and references for the entire CofD.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/ommd6b

Enjoy!

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>2e Archmages

Imagine all those Exceptional Successes
Luna doesn't stand a chance

You don't think someone's chubby girlfriend standing under a trellis properly conveys the themes used in the book?

Whats a good shadow name for a Mage who specializes.in Light spells and forges her soul to be the guiding light for others?Path and Order?

>>55066606
>Archmage
>Luna

these two should never be in the same post lest we start another dumpster fire

>>55066489
Somebody at least tell me the name of the Utterance so I can look it up myself without trawling through sections.

>>55066547
>Bitch I didn't say your boyfriend didn't know the rules. I was implying that he is a biased and arrogant piece of shit which he undoubtedly is you know since he posts on 4chan.

Are you just thick?

Whether Dave is arrogant, biased, a piece of shit or anything else is immaterial to the discussion.

It's also not about whether Dave just generally knows the rules and like to post on 4chan. Dave was the developer for the Mage / Mummies crossover chapter in Dark Eras Companion and the legitimate CofD authority for all crossover mechanics among the two splats. How mummies and mages interact is not just his personal opinion or interpretation, they are official CofD authority on the subject, at least until the release of Mummy 2e.

>>55066654
It's on the wiki. It allows you erase any supernatural from existence by uttering their true name

>>55066566
>multiple people thought this cover art was even remotely acceptable

There wasn't much of a budget for Imperial Mysteries at the time. We're lucky we got the book at all.

At least the archmage wasn't riding a unicycle.

>>55066739

>>55066654
>name of the Utterance

Rebuke the Vizier

>>55062118
They had visions and threw paper clips. It wasn't the best of OWOD.