/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>55027512
Occult 5 Specialty Conspiracy FACTS

>>55027512
>Stat me

Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 5d10+25 (52 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+14
Attack: Claw +9 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +9 melee (1d6+5) and bite +4 melee (1d8+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +5, Will +2
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 12, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10
Skills: Listen +8, Spot +8
Feats: Alertness, Track
Environment: Temperate forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (3-8)
Challenge Rating: 4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 6-8 HD (Large); 9-15 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

>>55027622
>Look mom! I posted it again!

>>55026909
Main thing with Auspices in play is Gifts.

An Elodoth can:
- end or force the Death Rage. Use this tactically; you can spare your pack a lot of trouble or cause a lot for another pack.
- detect lies, great for investigation. If you don't give them an investigation to do, they should investigate rival packs to see how they can fuck them up. You can also force reliable information out of a defeated pack.
- bind oaths, so when you dominate another pack you can force a month-long arrangement on them. Also useful for resolving conflicts in the extended pack. And while you say the pack is an island, it doesn't have to stay that way. The pack could use their Elodoth to form closer working relationships with other packs. With regular PK attacks you must have dangerous enemies in common. The pack should consider claiming territory it doesn't want and then giving it away, because this is both super Honorable and puts another pack in your debt.

Affinity Honor facets include:
- Hunting gives speak to animals. If you're fighting PKs, they probably live someplace with an ecosystem for them to be at the top of. Get to the animals and turn them into double agents. Make them swear oaths of loyalty and report back. More straightforwardly, use animals to guard and patrol your own territory or check out your current targets. They're easy to bribe, just offer food, water, and shelter.
- Pack gives the option to summon the pack totem as a Gauru combatant. In a close fight, this is worth it as a panic button.
- Insight grants visions about objects. If you're winning fights you're probably capturing some interesting objects. Probe them for information about enemy territories or the secrets of their Rites.
- Warding locks exits, useful in a pursuit. You guys hunt Hosts? Beshilu are common in urban environments and usually try to flee from werewolf packs. Trap that bitch in a building.

>>55027758
>>55026909
You didn't say which tribe, so here's some other notable Honor facets by tribe affinity.

Affinity for Storm Lords:
- Dominance gives a sort of Falling Touch variant, useful for debuffing opponents.
- Weather reduces weather penalties, and can be granted to other pack members as well. Even if you can't summon your own bad weather, you can still attack in it. This can put rival packs at a disadvantage on every roll.

Affinity for Blood Talons:
- Inspiration can be used to improve the pack's Initiative.
- Rage can prolong Gauru.
- Strength gives an enemy a Defense penalty against the next attack by a pack member.

Affinity for Hunters in Darkness:
- Nature has another prey-trapping facet, a wilderness counterpart to the one in Warding.
- Stealth can improve stealth for the whole pack.

Affinity for Iron Masters:
- Knowledge lets you instantly investigate anybody you see. Use this to profile rival packs. In some cases, detailed information on one pack is something another pack will barter for. In others, use this to put pressure on their extended pack by locating homes and stuff.
- Shaping lets you destroy enemy weapons. Fighting somebody in the Lodge of Arms? EAT MA PERIOD.
- Technology can control or disable devices, including guns.

Affinity for Bone Shadows:
- Death can transfer damage from a packmate to yourself.
- Elements gives Influence Earth. This is a good facet because the pool includes Strength, which is easy to boost with shifting. In the right environment you can milk this for attacks (falling rock, rockslide, damaged building) and conditions (uneven footing, dust storm).

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>>55027622
Hey buddy, I think you got the wrong thread. The shitpost club's two pages down.

>>55027775
None of this sounds have as good as what the other auspices can do other than the deaths rage control perk. In a party of 5 with one each of every auspices I'd rather take another rahu or itheur

>>55027897
Once you have one Ithaeur, why do you need two? Just to reroll on Shadow Gaze and Spirit Whisper attempts?

As for another Rahu, Totem's Wrath gives the pack another combatant in addition to the Elodoth.

>>55027897

See >>55027900

Werewolves can, and should, do more than engage in bloody conflict.

An Iron Master Elodoth attorney can do more for the Pack and the Forsaken overall than a slobbering one-note, hack'n'slash Blood Talen Rahu.

Sadly, many Forsaken players haven't yet graduated from killing orcs in D&D.

>Multidimensional players capable of dealing effectively intellectual and social scenarios, as well as the inevitable physical combat, apparently play Mage
>Guess who'll handle the local wizard better, the Elodoth or Rahu...

So there's no need for a Beast to actively feed or go around teaching lessons?

When their satiety gets too low, the Horror will go out on it's own and munch on people's nightmares automatically.

Could you just cut the hunger/lessons stuff entirely?

>>55028031
Lessons should definitely be cut, except maybe as a paper-thin rationalization used by a particularly nasty antagonist. Hunger however drives the game and needs to stay in.

>>55028005
For totems wrath don't you need to have your totem possess a pack mate? Seems lame to be honest
>>55028029
>attorneys
If I wanted to play an intellectual game with social crap I'd play Demon or heaven forbid vampire. Also everyone knows the best way to deal with mages is to leave them alone

>>55028029
To be fair if the plan to deal with 'the mage' is attack him you need a better plan. That's true across all gamelines.

>>55028031
>Horror will go out on it's own and munch on people's nightmares automatically.

That's not a good thing.

>Reason #1 why other supernaturals should hunt Beasts to extinction

>>55028031
Teaching lessons is useless fluff that you can easily ignore.
Hunger however is pretty damn important thematically and should be used.

>>55028197
A horror giving someone a nightmare one night is no where near as bad as a leech feeding on you

>>55028197
Whaaaaaaat, naaaaaaaw, come on guy, don't you just love those scamps.

The book says you love them, so you better make with the love.

>>55028242
What?
Vampire feeding is pleasurable.

>>55028176
No, Totem's Wrath Materializes a new body for the Totem.

How do you raise Integrity in CofD?

>>55028176
>>55028190

What if you need the wizards help (you know, mages aren't *always* the bad guys), and you have to hunt for some tome, relic, rare doodad or person?

Similarly, what happens when you need to negotiate with powerful mage/vampire/changeling/etc. for the bane of a powerful spirit adversary?

The Elodoth is the "face" of the group, and his skills and abilities often mean the difference between success and oblivion.

It's sad to see a game as good as a Forsaken 2e with players who approach it the same way someone rolls a Fighter to kill orcs in D&D.

>>55027803

Fuck you!

>>55028248
A good Mage mystery would be figuring out why the heck other splats like Beasts so much.

>>55028242
>no where near as bad as a leech feeding on you

I see no more inherent redeeming qualities in vampires than beasts, other than vampires apparent acknowledgment of the own monstrosity and ostensible attempts to maintain their Humanity.

>>55028338
It actually would be.

>>55028338
"Epopt, we postcogged the freelancers who wrote this book and discovered they're all fat faggots."

"Just as foretold."

>>55028338
>>55028365
>A good Mage mystery would be figuring out why the heck other splats like Beasts so much

What Arcana would reveal Plot Armor(tm) under Focused Mage Sight?

Fate and Prime?

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>>55028351
Vampires aren't half the creeps Beasts are.

>Hey baby, wanna come back to my Lair and check out some... forbidden knowledge?

>>55028373
>discovered they're all fat faggots.

Gender non-conforming fat faggots.


FIFY

>>55028264
It's tantamount to rape and a violation of all things good.
>>55028301
Werewolf doesn't need a face character. I have yet to meet a player who wanted to play a face character in werewolf. Usually someone is forced to play elodoth because the kuruth management and totems wrath is too good to pass up.

>>55028444
Yeah, but that's sort of the point. Doesn't mean it isn't pleasurable for both parties.

>>55027758
>detect lies, great for investigation. If you don't give them an investigation to do, they should investigate rival packs to see how they can fuck them up. You can also force reliable information out of a defeated pack.

How can they do that? I ask because their power seems a very expensive "detect lies" but first they gotta be on speaking terms on other Urathas.

I started the game by giving them a piece of a territory given them from elder pack, hoping they would want to expand it. But them they turned totally passive and just went "eh why would we want more?"

I tried to force the elodoth into negotiation by putting a nearby packs slacking off and putting the whole "their slacking off affect your territory" but them they went full frontal assault on the weaker pack and cede the part of the territory to the elder pack.

>>55027758
>Not all hunts need be violent affairs. You can hunt for knowledge, secrets, and solutions to all sorts of problems. Elodoth shine in these scenarios.

My issue is they never do the hunt. They dont get it and try to explain it how they can hunt for other stuff besides things to punch.

>>55028005
>As for another Rahu, Totem's Wrath gives the pack another combatant in addition to the Elodoth.

Doesnt that gift sours the packs relationship with the totem? And make you potentially loose it.

>>55028029
>Werewolves can, and should, do more than engage in bloody conflict.
>An Iron Master Elodoth attorney can do more for the Pack and the Forsaken overall than a slobbering one-note, hack'n'slash Blood Talen Rahu.

Well, actually that more or less the Packs elodoth. A Storm lord Elodoth, is mostly newbies to the game or people who played first edition, so the elodoth complains his lunar gifts are shitty and there is nothing for him to do.

In part is my fault i tend to ignore the PCs human lives because i dont like the whole "secret identity, spiderman thing".

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>>55028351
>>55028400
Neither vampires or beasts serve any purpose. Both splats are inhuman monsters that don't belong in this world. They should be hunted to extermination in the name of The Most High

>>55028444
>I have yet to meet a player who wanted to play a face character in werewolf.

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Forsaken players, not Elodoth pc's.

I give credit to the developers and writers of Forsaken 2e, they created a great game with ample possibilities for all types of play. Sadly, most players want to engage in little more than "Woof Smash!"

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Hey guys, I'm a new ST about to do a VtM game, I've already been a ST once, but I didn't do things properly back then.

I was thinking about this chronicle
>http://www.vtm.kismetrose.com/sc/storytelling/Storytelling01.html
tl.dr they start as humans, sabbath mass embrace (shovelheads), sheriff wipes sabbat pack, they come out and they don't know shit

What do you think?

Also additional advices for new STs.

So, I'm having some issues with coming up equipment for a Hunter. Like, I have a flashlight and a first aid kit, and that's it.
Weapons aren't an issue, but more general equipment is. What's some good stuff for a social character/occultist to have?
I've got Resources 2.

>>55028500
>Both splats are inhuman monsters that don't belong in this world. They should be hunted to extermination in the name of The Most High

>Isn't that a basically just a Tuesday night for most Obrimos?

Alex Jones is obviously a Hunter who's been dementated one too many times. Outside of that not sure, probably an expertise and interdisciplinary specialty in expression: loud.

>>55028505
Face characters belong in Vampire. Combat beasts belong in Werewolf. Why are you trying to do away with the Status quo?

>>55028545

Rope, duct tape, lighter and the card of a good criminal attorney that'll take your call in the middle of the night.

At this point i am considering just killing his PC off, he just charged in gauru agaisnt a bunch of ghouls with silver guns. He declared Down and dirty, rolled 12 dices vs 6 of the ghouls and didnt get any.

Basically the guy complains the system is shit (fair complain, it is mediocre........but thats true from all wod games) but his complains comes that forsaken doesnt have an easy mode like masquerade. He has to read and he is a lazy fuck.

So i am thinking as to make him a Irraka pre made it made by me so he can be useful and during the time skip made a Elodoth stormlord from a pack they just also almost got decimated join their pack to show him how useful it can be.

Speaking of which, what would be a good gift selection for a Elodoth Stormlord (not combat oriented, dont wanna outshine the rahu)

>>55028561
>Face characters belong in Vampire. Combat beasts belong in Werewolf.

How banal, limiting and boring. Don't you ever play against type?

>>55028464
>How can they do that? I ask because their power seems a very expensive "detect lies" but first they gotta be on speaking terms on other Urathas.

Fight pack. Beat pack. "Where's your locus? Lie and I'll cut your dick off." One or two lopped dicks later, you go plunder their locus and detecting lies pays for itself.

>Doesnt that gift sours the packs relationship with the totem? And make you potentially loose it.

Nah, the totem just doesn't help the pack for a few days. That's why it's a panic button. Prevailing in a close fight is still worth it.

>In part is my fault i tend to ignore the PCs human lives because i dont like the whole "secret identity, spiderman thing".

What about the humans and wolfbloods that it's NOT a secret from? Most Forsaken packs aren't just werewolves.

>>55028586
>He has to read and he is a lazy fuck

Definitely not someone who should play an Elodoth.

>>55028586
>Elodoth outshineing a rahu ever
I guess it's possible if your rahu player is literally brain dead at character builds
>>55028606
>Don't you ever play against the type?
No why would I ever do that? My motto is fix what isn't broken?

>>55028628
The best Werewolf APs I have read didn't have a wolfblooded and if they did they were incredibly minor characters. Non werewolf pack members was a mistake along with the reworked harmony. 2e forsaken is to noblebright imo.

>>55028505
>And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Forsaken players, not Elodoth pc's.
>I give credit to the developers and writers of Forsaken 2e, they created a great game with ample possibilities for all types of play. Sadly, most players want to engage in little more than "Woof Smash!"


I dont know, honestly i could play a face character a lot better in apocalypse than Forsaken. In apocalypse there was an actual social structure to manipulate.

The garou veer for position in a Sept and then into tribal/Sept conflicts. Deals to breeding and exchange of power was more defined in apocalypse. It was Game of Thrones in the sense that there was this generational political structure between factions under a "nation"

Same with the judges, in apocalypse there was clear social structure. Sept alpha dominated the protectorate and while the pack were units they had to answer to the Septs and the litany was fanatically enforced so a trial by litany breaking had more weight to it.

In forsaken, each pack is an island unless they form a protectorate and even then, many of the laws (except cannibalism and masquerade breaches) has to many grey areas. And that assuming the surrounding pack would bother in enforcing the punishment.

>>55028586
If you're player just wants to be a lazy git. He's not going to have fun playing Elodoth.

>>55028545
General utility stuff is more useful than you'd think. Tools, rope, duct tape, even some spare wood can come in handy.

As for social characters in particular? I recall there being a rule for using fine quality or clothing that fits in as equipment that boosts social rolls situationally. So honestly maybe a nice suit that you can still hide weapons in.

>>55028677
>>Elodoth outshineing a rahu ever
>I guess it's possible if your rahu player is literally brain dead at character builds

I mean i dont wanna make a Elodoth NPC with all the strenght and rage gifts so he could punch alongside the rahu. I am thinking on building the NPC elodoth the most effective possibly in his auspice "niche".

Recommendations?

>>55028586
With double-stacked Honor, your Elodoth Storm Lord should have a look at the same list I gave for Elodoth in general.

Weather's a good set for Storm Lords because only they have Weather affinity. Have him summon a thunderstorm as combat prep and immunize the pack from its effects.

Strength and Dominance will help him set enemies up for attacks by other pack members.

Stealth and Inspiration will help the pack get the first strike.

Warding will help the pack force a fight with an outmatched enemy.

These powers selected to assist the pack, not overshadow it.

>>55028628
>What about the humans and wolfbloods that it's NOT a secret from? Most Forsaken packs aren't just werewolves.

They are working on that. The elodoth just want to bring them all into the fold. The ithaur, which used to be my problem player because i suspect she is an autistic woman but now really got into actually playing an Ithaeur (she just without gifts, raise a small army of fire spirits to fight vampires), pulled a "it is what my character would do" bullshit and she is slowing the whole thing.

>>55028723
Packs are independent, but that doesn't mean they never work together or never make deals. Your local packs know about each other, are friendlier with some than others, can pursue prey into some territories but not others. No central authority does not mean no supernatural society.

Look what fucking happens when the magefags arnt around, the place goes to shit.

>>55028761
Strength and Rage are different for different auspices. The Honor facets are not the same as the Purity facets. Rage Honor is both not as interesting (oh look an NPC is still in warform) and not as suitable for your Storm Lord Elodoth, but Strength Honor is great with a pack backing it up.

>>55028871

Don't forget that many packs form protectorates. It's the Elodoth who keep them functioning.

>>55028871
>Actual discussion about gameplay, mechanics, and someone's campaign
>Shit

In Forsaken 1e, wasn't Max Roman an Elodoth?

>>55028871
We actually had a good (but silly) discussion about Mage up above.

>>55028871
How is this any more shit than the last thousand threads of argument?

I don't even know the first thing about werewolf and hearing about this guy's player is way more interesting than any mage discussion.

They say Spirit can fuck with Gifts. How does this work? Examples please?

>>55028894
>>Actual discussion about gameplay, mechanics, and someone's campaign

Us Mage Anons are just amusingly observing as woof players prove time and again that the solution to every woof problem is mindless violence.

>>55028917
>We actually had a good (but silly) discussion about Mage up above.

The recent Mage discussion about how the blood of different Paths fuck-up vampires was a lot of fun.

>>55028582
>>55028750
Thanks. Guess I'll just go with utility basics, and worry about social stuff later.

>>55028934
It is open ended, because it would require creative thaumaturgy and a mage PC telling his ST what he plans to do.

So pretty much make up what you would want to do with a gift, and someone here will tell you how many dots in spirit that would take.

>>55028934
The spirit Arcana? Then shielding protects vs gifts. Thats about it.

>>55028934
>They say Spirit can fuck with Gifts. How does this work?

Oh boy...

Spirit can manipulate anything of or relating to the Shadow.

For instance, Spirit 2 Shielding cast be a mage of middling ability can effectively no sell all the gifts of an entire pack.

in4 REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Claws arnt gifts!!

>>55029021
Well no.
It would cause a clash of wills whenever a gift tries to interact with the shield.

>>55028992
Smartphone should go without saying, although you might want to leave it at home when you plan to commit crimes.

>>55028934
>Examples please?
Ephemeral Shield (Spirit 2) can defend against the "spiritual magic" of Werewolves.

In a spirit heavy/cross-Forsaken Mage campaign (npc crossover only) you could logically rule that Spirit could act to Gifts or other Spirit phenomena that same way that Prime acts to Supernal magic.

>>55028916
>In Forsaken 1e, wasn't Max Roman an Elodoth?

Yes, he is.

>>55028992
No problem. Most social advantages lie in merits, so getting those with your early exp would be a good strategy.

Good hunting anon.

In the upcoming Contagion Chronicles, will it be one book, or is the intent for each game line to get a book?

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Even BEFORE 2e, DaveB agreed that Spirit, Fate n' Death could piss on Werewolves, Changelings and Sin-Eaters, respectively.

>>55029003
Not him, and it would be Fate rather than Spirit, but say you wanted to cancel out the Changeling Contract Become the Primal Foundation, basically dispelling it. What practice would you need, would it be resisted or Clashed or nothing at all, et c.

>>55029090
>Groxnar, Annoyer of Uratha

lol

>>55029089
Sounds like one book, to start. With maybe supplements to go along with it.

So like the 'idigam chronicles' being the introduction to Werewolf 2e. Contagion chronicles is the introduction to crossover 2e.

>>55029049
>It would cause a clash of wills whenever a gift tries to interact with the shield.

That's why I indicated it would require a mage of at least middling ability.

Also, don't forget that mage spells can be area of effect and/or multiple targets.

If the pack is fighting a Thyrsus or a mage proficient in spirit, most Gifts will be useless.

>>55029090
What Dave says doesn't matter to other splatfags. It just makes them mad and call him shit. Then when you point to the book where it says the same thing, they get mad and call Mage shit. So mad, all the time.

>>55029109
>Fate
Buddy, Gifts are werewolf powers.
Changeling contracts would be fate.
Gifts would be spirit.

>>55029109
Fate Fraying or Unmaking?

>>55029049
Nope my friend. Using alchemist touch as a base a spiritual shield will block all damage unless it is aggravated and even that is reduced by potency. Too bad that werewolves don't even get aggravated damage for what ever reason in the first place

>>55029109
To troll the Troll(Changeling), you need Fate 4.

>>55029113
>>Groxnar

>Groxnar sounds more like a Moros or Mastigos than Thyrsus.

>>55029140
NO clash because ending it isnt doing opposite of whatever that contract is doing, might be some form of withstand rating but it's up to the ST

>>55029155
Which one is alchemist touch?

>>55028826
>Packs are independent, but that doesn't mean they never work together or never make deals. Your local packs know about each other, are friendlier with some than others, can pursue prey into some territories but not others. No central authority does not mean no supernatural society.

Can you expand on this? 1E seems to made pack very territorial. Why would they allow other pack to enter their territory? Why not say "when shit enters out turf we kill it and take the renown, fuck off"


Even negotiations, how would that work? I am trying to figure out leverage in negotiations.

Besides the possibility of pursuing a pack into another´s territory what would a pack would need from another? What would a pack need from another to allow them to enter their territory in pursuit?

And why wouldn't they settle everything by combat? Considering that wolf regenerate like crazy, how isnt that the go to on pack-on-pack negotiations?

They could duke it out until one reaches aggravated and the be good as new in less than a week.

>>55029155
Alchemist's Touch is for mundane phenomena. Supernatural attacks explicitly cause a Clash.

>>55029155
Go read the fucking spell you mongo, this isnt creative thaum.

>Discussing Mage Shielding Spells

>Danger<
>Danger<

>>55029155
>and any spiritual powers of other supernatural >creatures such as werewolves. Such attacks >must succeed at a Clash of Wills to harm the subject.

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>>55029137

>>55029090

The rule of thumb for mage "taking everything Dave says and doing the exact opposites gives you a more balance game"

>>55029196
X CARD

>>55029155
It would cause a Clash, but it wouldn't really matter. They won't be able to beat a Mage's Duration bonuses.
Nor will they likely have Aggravated damage to break through

>Mage Supremacy

>>55029184
>Supernatural attacks explicitly cause a Clash.

I'm certain a mage can use Creative Thaumaturgy Spirit Shielding to potentially immunize a mage from direct attacks using Gifts along the lines of Alchemist's Touch.

The Clash of Wills is usually for more indirect or esoteric types of effects.

>>55029226
That's incredibly stupid. If you did the exact opposite, it would still be unbalanced, just in the other direction.

>>55029221
Wth am I reading?
I was responding to this >>55028934
>They say Spirit can fuck with Gifts. How does this work? Examples please?

What conversation do you think we're having?

>>55029226
The rule of thumb is that you're a faggot

>>55029226
>aking everything Dave says and doing the exact opposites gives you a more balance game

Well, good thing the crossover "balance" is not a design element in CofD 2e.

>>55029239
Because of how often Mage shields against strange effects, the book expanded on what causes a clash to pretty much be anytime something is trying to mess with a spell, or when supernatural effects are clashing.

The reason this causes a clash is because of the text in Mage itself.

You cannot become immune to supernatural stuff, just cause it to be unreliable.

Though I'm sure that changes at some high up arcana for game power levels no one actually plays. But for a normal gnosis level mage, you can't give yourself full immunity.

>>55029262
>The rule of thumb is that you're a faggot

Per Brucato, I believe OPP"s preferred term is "neuro-diverse."

>balancefag

>>55029260
I dunno, maybe
>>55029109
>Not him, and it would be Fate rather than Spirit, but

>>55029181
Reciprocity. Sacred Hunt important to all werewolves. Prey can cross pack territory borders. Access treaty means this doesn't let prey escape and doesn't immediately start fight between packs.

Leverage: join us and we won't be a threat for a month at least (Elodoth oathbinding). Don't and worry we might attack. We propose mutually beneficial things so you have as much to gain as we do. We may also offer things we can tell you or give you.

Werewolf fights are dangerous, both physically and to the Oath of the Moon. Werewolves lose control in combat all the time. While you recover from the last combat, pack is less able to hunt, and a new enemy could attack. Enemy could recover faster than you and attack while you're still weak.

>>55029292
>You cannot become immune to supernatural stuff

Except you can, up to Aggravated reduced by Potency. Clash of Wills is to see if you can break through that immunity, otherwise you're shit out of luck.

>>55029302
Oh, wow you have terrible sentence composition.

I read that as 'no you're wrong, it would require Fate' while the post was trying to say 'hey this thing in the clause after this would require Fate, but because I failed high school English I'm going to bring that up now'

Sweet, my bad. Yeah it would cause a clash, don't know which one primal foundation is though.

What a surprise, bringing up mage and inter-splat interactions ran the thread into the ground in record time, good job everyone!

How about we talk about stuff that hasn't been talked about ad nauseum? Maybe speculate on how many different types of government/megacorp experiments Deviant will facilitate play of, and how out there it'll let you get?

Or maybe about trying to run a game as the side-splats, like a ghoul game?

I can't possibly be the only one tired of this groundhog day of a discussion, can I?

THIS GUY >>55028934 RUINED THE FUCKING THREAD

>DaveB gets on stage
>"I don't like other splats"
>audience boos(they agree with him)
>"I do like mages"
>audience cheers(they also agree with him on this one too)
>DaveB delays release of the FAQ
>lol, what a dev lol
>all the vamposters in the audience die
>the mageposters are fine with this
>DaveB is the developer baron (See, DaveB stands for developer baron)

>>55029357
Are you actually retarded?
>Clash of wills is to see if you can break through
THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Immunity would be 'I just win, there isn't even a clash'.
You aren't immune, because there is a clash of wills, which has a chance of meaning your effect won't work. In which case, you aren't immune.

I get what you're trying to say. Immune unless the clash fails. But the point is that your language was previously making it sound like they would just be immune, which would imply there is no chance of getting through the spell, when a Clash is exactly that, a chance.

>>55029383
50$ it was a Magefag in disguise

>>55029413
This was the first time I responded to you, dipshit.

Calm your saggy ass titties, evident werefag.

>>55029383
>it's the fault of one anon that asked something, not the magefags horde not able to restrain themselves not able to hold their fucking keyboards and costantly ruin every thread and then make posts like this >>55028871 because someone DARES to talk about something else

>>55029364
>how many different types of government/megacorp experiments Deviant

>It doesn't matter, they'll all no doubt be secretly controlled by mages or vampires

werewolf claws are magical attacks and trigger a clash

>>55029360
Why would I say Changeling Contract if I was talking about woofs? Although between the forum post I missed, >>55029156, and your response now, I'm sure it's Unmaking. The rest is a bit murkier, but I'd probably just put their rating in the Contract as a resistance trait and call it a day.

>>55029239
Stop pretending like you've read the book or know what you're talking about at all.

"Most commonly with the Practice of Shielding (••), a spell
may grant protection from forces under the Arcanum’s purview.
These spells usually provide blanket immunity to natural or
mundane phenomena, while protecting against a number of
supernatural attacks equal to the spell’s Potency. Such attacks
must win a Clash of Wills to affect the target."
p.126-127

>Such attacks must win a Clash of Wills to affect the target.

As for Alchemist's Touch, it only offers immunity up to agg because you're Shielding from mundane things. Looking to other Shielding spells, Environmental Shield explicitly does not grant the caster immunity to magically influenced weather effects. Wards and Signs is expressly intended to defend against direct magic attacks, using the Potency of the spell as a Withstand rating. No outright immunity.

Fuck off.

>>55028714
>The best Werewolf APs I have read didn't have a wolfblooded and if they did they were incredibly minor characters. Non werewolf pack members was a mistake along with the reworked harmony. 2e forsaken is to noblebright imo.

Can you recommend me a good actual play for Forsaken? I am reading the seventh seal one, and while pretty good its premise is very special snowflakey.

>>55029317
>Werewolf fights are dangerous, both physically and to the Oath of the Moon. Werewolves lose control in combat all the time. While you recover from the last combat, pack is less able to hunt, and a new enemy could attack. Enemy could recover faster than you and attack while you're still weak.

If the combat is until the first aggravated point. Wouldnt that mean that the pack is only weakened by 1 or 2 points of aggravated for 4 or 8 days? Because they regenerate all lethal/bashing each turn in Gauru

>>55029451
>they'll all no doubt be secretly controlled by mages or vampires who are themselves secretly controlled by mages
fixed for you friend!

Alchemists Touch is such a bad example to base fucking shielding spells on.

Firstly you would have to choose a particular form of "spirit/forces/whatever" and then you would be immune to the mundane harm that comes due to its intrinsic property, not the thing itself.

Its just a bad example to base other shielding spells off.

>>55029472
Not important.
Also, I guess I'm done trying to be helpful, since trying to give advice triggers people like >>55029431

>>55029517
Yeah, no. You're so fucking buttmad at this point. It's absolutely hilarious. Priceless even.

>>55029452
2/10 trolling

go back to school and learn to troll

So why RPG.net fags are so butthurt on the whole "V5 used the term triggered" when Forsaken also did it?

>>55029364
It'll probably be 5. Because OP is done trying to experiment, because it didn't go well with Mummy.

So the usual 5x5xinfinity set up will be used.

>>55029545
Um wrong anon shitpie.

>>55029519
Or, as I'd put it
>ree why is the most mechanically-complex splat the one there's the most mechanics discussion about

>>55029502
Easy to say "let's just go to the first aggravated level." Hard to keep it at that when werewolves are going into Death Rage, or when fire or silver come out.

>>55029555
Good question. "Triggers" have been in several games lately and my suspicion is that devs want to encourage acceptance of the term.

Maybe the V5 audience includes some owodfags who hadn't heard about that and aren't on board with it.

>>55029569
Sorry, assbanana

>>55029604
Bit of a difference between "the scent of blood triggers me and I go into Death Rage" and "your hairstyle triggers me and I complain in a really annoying voice about how you're appropriating queer POC culture."

>>55029582
>or when fire or silver come out.

Fire? Fire causes aggravated?

>>55029364
>ghoul game
Would you rather play as ghouls from different vampires, or as multiple ghouls from the same vampire ?
The group dynamics would be wildly different and I think having a common patron could be interesting, because of the ungodly amount of competition for Master's love going on

Are we still fighting over the not-overpowered kinetic shield?
It's immunity only goes up to Aggravted minus Potency and can only take so many hits.

Why complain over something that isn't even broken?

>>55028826
>No central authority does not mean no supernatural society.

But without central authority there is no way to enforce it, it does seem to descends into might makes right.

>My territory, my law and if you got problem with it you will have to be stronger or shut the fuck up.

>>55029557
Oh well, I was hoping they'd do something curazy and make it really modular so you could try and go for any concept that strikes your fancy.

>>55029649
Same vampire would be interesting. It would be like that proposed Mummy game format where the players are instead the Mummy's cult.

Everyone knows there is a master that is much more powerful than them. Sure the master is vulnerable at times, but do you want to be the dummy that ruins a good thing? Plus, you need to protect the master's weaknesses as a group.

>>55029666
The Aggravated minus Potency bit is pure preference, and not a hard rule of Shielding at all.

>>55029632
Anything can cause agg damage if it rolls over anon.

Reeeeeee

>>55029684
I think they are going with modular, just not on the XYZ axis of choosing Origin/Organization/Extra.

There is talk about how you can sort of choose your power level, which does sound awesome, but makes me wonder how well it will play as a group.

Like, if one guy chooses to be the weak 'barely have any powers and can pass' guy, would he work in a campaign with 'The Incredible Bulk' who is being hunted by the whole US government as he rampages across Detroit?

>>55029666
says who? somebody coping another spell, well my creative thaum creates it differently using the shielding practice rules, that has no text about agg damage shit or anything and says blanket immunity.

>>55029317
>>55029502
Oh yeah forgot Elodoth is also good for insuring that when you kill pure fucking shits it's not a sin against moon laws.
>>55029502
Yeah Seventh Seal is kind of snowflakey but Detroit rock city is pretty damn good for a forsaken lets play and Is much better imo than seventh seal so far.

>>55029732
>yes he will work, for a very short amount of time.

>>55029750
>says blanket immunity
To mundane or natural phenomena. Supernatural attacks and conflicting powers invoke a Clash of Wills, and can only be defended against a number of times equal to Potency.

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>>55029674
Doesn't need to be a central authority. Werewolves have cultural expectations, stemming from the Renown system and the Oath of the Moon, that often mean something very different in practice from might makes right.

Of course, being the better combatants is often really useful, but it's not the only thing there is. Even Glory isn't just about winning and taking.

Also pic related.

>>55029732
The only way I'd see it workable is if the weaker types got access to really good support abilities.

But then again they've never been very good at making weak support type characters terribly viable.

>>55029811
Reminds me of the werewolf game I ran for some time.

The PC pack was young, and were pretty much created by them splitting away from the NPC pack in the region that was full of older woofs.

The older ones took a teaching approach. They came to the rescue when they thought something was out of control, but otherwise they made their border, told the younger pack to figure it out, and left a single guy in the young pack's territory to make sure they didn't get into trouble.

The older pack could have just raped them to death, but why do that when your true enemy is the Pure, the hosts, etc?

>>55029809
Claws arnt supernatural, and thats all Woofs do.

>>55029755
>Oh yeah forgot Elodoth is also good for insuring that when you kill pure fucking shits it's not a sin against moon laws.

How an elodoth can make killing a woof not part of the oath?

>Yeah Seventh Seal is kind of snowflakey but Detroit rock city is pretty damn good for a forsaken lets play and Is much better imo than seventh seal so far.

Thanks!

>>55027900

Then please, oh enlightened anon, tell us how you would get around Kinetic Shield as a Werewolf?

Man you faggots have been at this shit since fucking March don't you ever get bored?

>>55030109
Do Werewolves not have Gifts?

>>55030155
No, because... uh... reasons!

>>55030149
We've been at this since mid January, actually.

I don't know where they came from.

>>55030194
I thought it was since late last year.

>Ignore kinetic shield posters
>Ignore kinetic shield posts
>Promote discussion
>Save the thread

>>55028723

This so much.

I like most of the mechanics in Forsaken but I really hate the barely there setting and lack of any cohesive social structure.

>>55030247
This. What's really sad is odds are its only one or two posters going at it. We've only had 25 different posters.

Now on to the discussion. What's your go to weapon/trick for Hunter? I'd probably say surprise shotgun with *monster's bane* filled shells. It's a bit brutish, but very effective.

>>55030354
A sophisticated tactic I call "hit it with a car".

>>55030155

Which Gift bypasses than and kills the Mage?

>>55030315
It's local and distributed, but social structure is still there. Look at the 1e setting book, packs cooperate and feud all the time.

>>55030416
Unfortunately that puts the driver in a lot of danger too. Car collision rules ain't no joke for anybody involved.

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>>55030416
You are a gentleman with fine taste.

>>55030449
Imagine breaker it's a gift that allows a werewolf to negate any magic that comes in a radius around the woof's arm

>>55030449
Literally any Gift can do it. If it's not reliant on kinetic force, the Shield doesn't stop it at all. If it is, it causes a Clash.

>interesting discussion of splats by themselves
>tiresome dead horse shitposting about splats vs. each other
If this thread isn't a case against crossovers I don't know what is.

>>55030461

Via might makes right. That's like expecting gangs to adhere to social moores.

>>55030194
>>55030232
It's been like hazy in the background sure, but I remember being here since like 2013 and things were never this regular or cancerous. I mean I would say it started with mage second edition but I'm pretty sure I remember even a few months after that being fine. What the fuck kicked this all off?

>>55030559
I blame the side bars.

>>55030556
They... do?
(It is just one o btw. Mores)

>>55030556
Gangs DO have social mores. If they were purely "might makes right," they wouldn't break the law because the cops are the mightiest. Instead they have a code of behavior that frowns on informants, mandates the use of street names rather than legal names to hinder investigation, and tags territory as a warning to competitors.

>>55030559
>What the fuck kicked this all off?
Dry spell of interesting content? OPP forum and RPG.net posters coming over here and engaging our shitposters while shitposting themselves? Vampfags?

>>55030604

Because the federal government exists police force exists there is a far greater hierarchy above them. That doesn't really exist for werewolves. As far as the shadow is presented there's nothing enforcing it there either besides personal preference. Spirits are cunts to Forsaken so you aren't really getting a lot leverage there and can expect them to be unreliable at best.

Really, who is going to enforce all of this?

I think you just don't want to accept the fact that played as is all werewolves will basically end up being like African Warlords.

>>55030559
I stand by the theory that the magefags are coordinating al of this.

Probably on Skype or something.

>>55030354
Shotguns are always first choice.

I've always been partial to that early tactic, using fire and whatever to corral monsters. It is awesome because it is so quintessential hunter. A bunch of people, risking their lives, using whatever trick they think they've figure out, to try to beat something way stronger than them.

>>55030559
From what I remember the Magefaggotry REALLY kicked off in January after Vampfags were boasting how amazing Antediluvians were.

>>55030619

They're like if you remove the cops or any reason to have restraint in most instances. the only really Troublesome band they have on anything is killing each other and that only works because it comes from the the only really Troublesome band they have on anything is killing each other and that only works because it comes from the very top. Luna doesn't seem to care about anything else otherwise. And I said before Spirits are useless cunts and/or more violent competition.

>>55030708
They didn't like the fact that high tier vampires can match their beloved archmages

lol

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>>55030749

>>55030718
>>55030660
If a more powerful outside force is necessary for social cohesion, how about the Pure, the idigam, hostile spirit courts, and the human society that werewolves are hiding from? Cops investigate werewolf crimes too.

>>55029517
>Alchemists Touch is such a bad example to base fucking shielding spells on.

Yeah, why would anyone use an example spell in the corebook that's readily applicable to Forces and all you need to do is literally change a few words.

What were we thinking...

>>55030781

That only begs the question why their societies aren't more cohesive and centralized into confederated protectorates just to ensure that Forsaken all tow the line and keep everyone's head above water and out of trouble.

>>55030749
I don't like to take sides, but, the things the Magefags have demonstrated on behalf of 6+ Spheres/Arcana... It's nothing to scoff at.

Voormas was going to freeze the entire universe at seven dots. Seven. Dots.
I recall Protean could only mish mash tectonic plates at 10 dots.

Masters of the Art is crapolla, but it's conclusive. Archmages start big bangs.

>>55030708
>Revisionist history
Since Ascension faggot

>>55030857
Because most of the time the threat isn't immediate enough for them to go all the way to that. Sometimes it is, like when an idigam becomes a major regional threat. That's when you see the protectorate system become prominent.

>>55030868
>I don't take side
>Immediately takes a side

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>>55030868
>Archmages start big bangs

>>55030708
>>55030749
Falseflag lel

>>55030906
I'm not on any side, you dingleberry. I just acknowledge how immense in scope Archmages are in comparison to, say, Caine and his "children".

I'd sooner play Vampire over Mage, even though I would never.

>>55030886

My understanding is that a lot of forsaken died fighting the Idigam recently (60's?) And then the pure attack them as soon as they had won and we're still expended from combating the Idigam.

Wouldn't that classify as being under severe threat?

>>55030917
you can'd do that

>>55030700
Oh fire is fun and thematic, but hard as hell to pull off unless you're somewhere rural.

I also feel like the conceal-ability of handguns is undervalued a lot.

>>55030943
Nah. Not constant enough, not immediate enough most of the time, and not that organized itself. But for the times when it flares up, it pays Forsaken to keep those lines of interpack communication open.

>>55029916
>Claws arnt supernatural, and thats all Woofs do.

Woof #1: Our biting and clawing aren't doing anything to the monster!

Woof #2: Well, then we better bite and claw at it some more!

>>55030974
Heck, my players always try to play it safe and minimize their gun usage.

Then look at me funny when they get in a fight and remember that melee rules in nWoD/CofD suck.

'You try to punch them? Chance die. Enjoy that.'

What does ducking in and out of cover do for you mechanically in cofd?

And how does it work in cwod/20th? I'm really curious about this because from what my friends told me you have to give up your action for the turn to Dodge. But what if you were already shooting from cover?? I couldn't find an answer in my copy of V20 but I am a huge newb so I'm probably not looking in the right place.

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>>55030974
Fire has style when it works.

>>55030109
>Then please, oh enlightened anon, tell us how you would get around Kinetic Shield as a Werewolf?

Any woof that directly attacks in melee a mage proficient in Forces deserves anything that happens to them.

Instead of brute force combat, investigate and locate the mages mystical and mundane assets and allies, and then hurt him indirectly or use hostages and barter/bargaining to resolve any differences.

When dealing with the Wise, it's best to use a lot more Elodoth, and a lot less Rahu, at least if the woof doesn't fancy a painful death.

>>55030999
You mean V20 p. 278?

>>55031065
>Ignore kinetic shield posters
>Ignore kinetic shield posts
>Promote discussion
>Save the thread

>>55030998
My group house-rules away the + athletics to defense so melee combat is viable, but you can still be hard to hit if you get stuff like armed/unarmed defense.

>>55031037
Oh no doubt, and it's quite effective, just try to avoid getting the fire department called on you.

>>55030416
>A sophisticated tactic I call "hit it with a car".

American, Japanese or German car?

>>55029921
>>55031065
All of that when you can just use an Irraka and either trap the mage in the shadow or just outright kill the cur in its sleep

>>55030681
>I stand by the theory that the magefags are coordinating al of this.

Of course, via encrypted transmission from our secret bunker under the Washington Monument

>I've said too much...

>>55031093
Japanese shitbox while blasting eurobeat.

>>55031125
>Trapping a Spirit Mage in the Shadow
>Barging into a wizard's sanctum with no repercussion

lolno

Mechanics and fluff question, /tg/
In Vampire: the Masquerade- 20th anniversary edition, how do you characterize the physical disciplines?

It seems like splitting hairs, but fluff and crunch matter.

Does Potence increase the Cainite's physical strength, or just add to it like invisible hands? Is it an enhancement of the muscles, or simply a more perfect Vampiric condition, enabling a sort of extraordinary output of power in a mundane body? Or is it a specifically physical thing, completely independent of magic?

By the rules, you can't go beyond 5 Potence, nor can you go beyond 5 Strength. One is limited by mortal bounds with special mitigators, with a 6 or a 7 being abnormal, or explained away as having the Huge Size or making a Willpower based weightlifting roll.

You can't even go beyond 5 Strength with experience points, barring the Storyteller doing a FIAT. So even if the character engaged in mortal weight lifting, there's only so strong they could become given generational limits capping your physical stats.

In your games, is potence a straight up bonus to your Strength rating, a parallel supernatural ability, or what?

>>55030749
>They didn't like the fact that high tier vampires can match their beloved archmages

>Elder vampires aren't a match for Adepts, no less masters or archmages

>Vampfags also had a big sad because A Thousand Years of Night had absolutely nothing to allow vamps to play in the same league of master mages

>>55031151
Why are you assuming it's a thyrsus magefag?

Scion better get its own general when it comes out so I can leave this shithole once and for all

>>55031125
That's all easier said than done.

>>55031230
>he thinks only thyrsus have dots in spirit

>>55031290
Even if the Mage doesn't have Spirit, chances are good that at least one Spirit Mage in the Consilium makes a habit of knowing the Shadow and local spirits. If the trapped Mage doesn't die quickly, a rescue is likely.

>>55031125
>you can just use an Irraka and either trap the mage in the shadow or just outright kill the cur in its sleep

Did your woof fall on his head during the FIrst Change?

We're talking about *wizards*, not the regular human riff raff. Places like the Shadow are not scary to the Wise, and many can easily leave and enter, or have allies that can easily assist them, and all are more than capable of protecting themselves in the spirit wilds. All the woof would accomplish, if successful, which is doubtful, is really piss-off the mage and permit him the time and opportunity to exact revenge. That woof will shortly be pining for the good old days of Kinetic Shield as his screams reverberate to the outer reaches of the Shadow and beyond.

As for attacking a mage in his sanctum, WTF are you thinking? Mages are paranoid, and their sanctums are their most heavily defended resources (and often shared with the cabal!). Mages can fuck-up most non-god level threats anywhere, and you want to attack them where they have the clear home advantage and built for defense?

>Short bus werewolves

>>55031231
>Scion better get its own general when it comes out so I can leave this shithole once and for all

Once you /wodg/, you can never really leave.

It damages your soul.

>>55031231
You already have your own general.
You just don't have a general at all, because that's how much people care about Scion.

This isn't Onyx Path general, this is Chronicles of Darkness or World of Darkness General.

What is an emanation realm?

>>55031413
>You already have your own general.
>You just don't have a general at all,

What did he mean by this

>>55031370

>all Mages are rational actors with perfect clarity and foresught of all situations

>all Mages are the same

Whiteboxing is cancerous.

>>55031487
He means to say he finds you to be a faggot

>>55031384

Wod will probably split off into its own General anyway

>>55031494
You could literally say the same thing about werewolves.

>>55031519
>Wod will probably split off into its own General anyway

It's been tried multiple time without success.

>>55031523

At least being a violent fuck fiend is a personality. I'm like Mages who don't seem to have one at all. Maybe they lost their ability to be an interesting character when they awoke? Lel

>>55031501
But how could he know that, this is my first post of the thread and I'm not OP

>>55031333
Or a mage without Spirit could seek a Verge by other means, like Fate 2: Shifting the Odds.

>>55031539
Nobody plays mage, so every mage is just a hypothetical hyper optimized mage.

>>55031494
>all Mages are rational actors with perfect clarity and foresught of all situations

No, but they aren't idiots. As a rule, they're also obsessively paranoid and even the weakest among them are relatively powerful.

Mage society is based on the understanding that everyone is a walking WMD. They're regularly prepared to deal with threats from other mages. It's not "white room" thinking to acknowledge that such preparation, no less within a mage's own home, would be more than sufficient to deal with a schnauzer with delusions of grandeur.

>>55031532

There's a lot of interest surrounding the new game. If it has even a glimmer of the success that apology Edition games like Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition have it's going to bring enough people to justify and continue a successful General thread.

Plus do you really want to have all the newbies coming from the various video games they produce, coming to this thread and asking about Old World of Darkness and drowning out any threadbare discussion you guys do have about cofd?

>>55031571
Mages have society? Wow. Judging by the people who play them you'd reckon they'd be too autistic to have one.

>>55031571

So they're exactly what I said.

>>55031576
>drowning out any threadbare discussion you guys do have about cofd?
Without a robust cannon there isn't even much to talk about for CofD other than white rooms. That's pretty much why it happens so much. The other option involves complicated writes up where you have to communicate things that happened in a way interesting enough to generate conversation. Much harder.

>>55031370
>Mages are at home in the shadow

One type of mage has ANY hope of not being utterly fucking lost. No others are going to have a fun time. Mages don't belong there and have little natural defense vs sprirts that will hollow them out and wear them around like a fucking raincoat.

>>55031571

This is WHY nobody plays mage, by the way. The idea that you are supposed to play an obsessively paranoid coward that expends 99% of their time and effort fortifying their doomsday fortress then hiding inside it sounds like a shit game for stupid people.

>>55031624

That's a shame. Maybe if you're setting was more interesting and had NPCs to talk about....

More Mummy reading.
Made it through character creation and Merits:
Jesus, could they have put more of this stuff 'later in the book'. I was actually excited to read the Cult rules. But no, they are pushed back to chapter 3. I can't even finish a character because a vital merit (because most mummies have a cult) isn't even in the character creation chapter. Thanks OP!

Also, while I originally thought Sekhem was both their power stat and their resource, I see now that they actually spend pillars. Which, because of the nature of the name, is weird. But it works, whatever.

On to decrees!

>>55031639
>One type of mage has ANY hope of not being utterly fucking lost

About 2-3/5 of all Mages. Not that uncommon.

>>55031384
I used to think the same, but dead serious the constant back and forth caner fest has unironically just made me like the game less and less. The teasers so far make me hope scion can scratch the same modern fantasy itch without the same level of autism.

>>55030354
I know shotgun is popular, but a favorite of mine has always been sniper Hunter. If supernaturals are so dangerous and can rip you apart bare-handed, why not fight them from as long a range as possible?

>>55031686

It sounds like it or at least you won't have to deal with this multi-game line competition dick waving as everyone is playing a Scion.

>>55031698
Nothing says 'Hello Edward' like a sniper rifle shell to the brain.

>>55031639

Have you actually read the Arcana? All mages are more than capable of defending themselves in the Shadow. Thrysus just take it a big step further and are a dominating force.

Your comment is as foolish as suggesting only Moros can protect themselves against ghosts or only Mastigos are competent in the Astral. That's not how it works (and without any consideration for the fact that mages are often competent in Arcana beyond their Ruling Arcana).

>Hiding insider doomsday fortress
>Obsessively pursue Mysteries

Pick one.

Mage sanctums are usually just the one place where mages can truly relax, experiment, etc. This is true because sanctums are carefully prepared and protected.

Under what circumstances would a woof believe that attacking a mage in his home would be a good idea, particularly as sanctums are usually shares and he'll need to contend with other mages besides his target?

>>55031654
I don't really want to talk about signature characters myself, especially not the sort of signature characters yer average OP writer would foist on us in the year 2017

>>55031669
Every one of these books is disorganized, but it's especially painful with Mummy because of its player section/ST section division and its squandered potential to be a pick-up-and-play game for new players.

>>55031731

My issue with the second editions of Scion and Trinity is the new system. I like crunchy mechanics, and the spoilers for the new system really feels like it's a bad Fate conversion for the CofD. For me, that's a nonstarter.

>>55031639
>>Mages are at home in the shadow
You're the only one who has said this. And by "one type of Mage" do you mean Thyrsus, or any Mage who takes Spirit?

>This is WHY nobody plays mage, by the way
But they do.

>The idea that you are supposed to play an obsessively paranoid coward that expends 99% of their time and effort fortifying their doomsday fortress then hiding inside it sounds like a shit game for stupid people.
Protecting your home and place of operations against the many supernatural and mundane dangers of the world is being obsessively paranoid and cowardly?

>>55031735
I remember a mixed look of being impressed and dismayed on my ST's face when he realized I had over 500 yards distance between me and the Werewolf we'd isolated from the pack.

I'll give the furry bastard credit, he closed over half the distance before my silver bullets felled him.

>>55031654

But Anon, we already had Caine vs Dante.

>55031782

Owod, surprisingly , had a number of decent ones. Especially wta, but vtm too.

>>55031804

>But they do.

Game recruitment and Chronicle listings everywhere online paints a very different picture.

To no one's surprise both versions of vampire you'll the Lion's share of games and players being run. Werewolf usually edges out the amount of Mage games by a little. And of course it is damn near impossible to find anything for the other games barring maybe Hunter.

Offline games are harder to census but still gravitate toward Vampire.

LARP is almost universally dominated by Vampire and a small but vocal minority of Werewolf players.

All this paints a picture showing that Mage is the favorite game that everybody loves to talk about but never actually play.

>>55031893

Dante or DMC Donte?

>>55031186
It's a supernatural thing, so it's an extraordinary output on a normal body, maybe you will see sometimes some muscle flexing, but it's more for show than anything.
By rules you can go to 6 Dots in Str if you are like with 5 Str with a not-so-high gen.
Using 20th anniversary rules, you can just use your dots in presence as additional die for your strenght rolls, or by using precedent edition rules, they would be automatic successes x dot.

>>55031896
>All this paints a picture showing that Mage is the favorite game that everybody loves to talk about but never actually play.
But it is actually played. I've actually played it, and so have a lot of people I know. The claim wasn't "It's barely played", or "It's played the least", but "It's never played." Which is blatantly false.

>>55031962

Anecdotal evidence is easily dismissed. Despite its popularity here it's still the third fiddle in the wod bluegrass band.

>>55031801
It's been a while since I last looked, but those old sardonyx system teasers seemed to have a decent amount of crunch to them for the different game modes, and that one combat teaser for the kickstarter. I mean, its not like WoD is crazy crunch heavy itself, at least not on the bare systems level

>>55031913

Dante the Ascension Mage, not Traced Dante the Hunter.

>>55031990
Impressive reading comprehension.

>>55032047

Why not actual Dante from DMC1/3/4?

>>55032067
Dante from DMC would wreck 3/4 of the things in the WoD, both old and new. So would Bayonetta.

>>55032060

You can argue semantics and bitch about generalizations all you want but it doesn't change the fact that statistics I've proven that it's third placeand had always remained third place, which in a game system and genre that already has trouble finding player interest, is not a good thing.

>>55032081

Isn't that more fun then? You guys love to talk about power level fights.

>>55032067
He's too cool for the guys who discuss power level on WoD threads.

Plus he's a powerful thing that isn't a mage. Both of these are haram to them.

>>55032088
Can I see your sources?

>>55031896
>And of course it is damn near impossible to find anything for the other games barring maybe Hunter.
I would like to have the right level of knowledge of the English language so I would be able to run the most obscure oWoD/nWoD games for people online. I consider myself to be fluent, but being a ST requires a whole new level of knowledge of the language because you also need to improvise complex situations on the run. Chat play would be an option, but I don't really like it, I prefer old fashionable voice talk sadly.

>>55032104

Voice talk is pretty bad sempai. Especially if you have a terrible Euro accent.

>>55032103

Mythweavers, GitP, Roll20, RPG.net, even WW forums recruits for games at times.

Basically anywhere that isn't strictly discussion (reddit, 4chan) will feature some form of game recruitment. Vampire always stand at the top. I would dare say you're being delusional if you think Mage even touches those numbers of active and past WoF/nwod/cofd games you can find online.

What would some other Pangean gods be like?

I like to imagine that some of the cuter animals, like Bat, would also be a cute.

>>55032195
Platypus

>>55032169
Until you show me the proof, your claim is hot air. I'm not going to trawl through all of those sites to prove your argument for you. If you want to be taken seriously, present the proof. If you don't care enough to do so, oh well. Mage being third isn't a terrible blow to me anyway, or even the claim I was disputing.

>>55032128
I don't consider it to be bad actually, I'm Italian and I can say that I barely sound like one while speaking.

>>55032241

>waaah do the work for me

Get lost you entitled Millennial snowflake.

>>55032275
Piss off and bugger off, you gold geezer.

Anyone here play Changeling the Lost? I've got a Campaign i'm going to be running that I'd like to run past a few people to get some second opinions on it.

>>55032252

I find that voice chat derails games too easily. Most of these nerds don't have an off button, especially when they start telling bad jokes. I'd also rather not have to listen to some cottonmouth'd neckbeard try to pretend like they're suave or I forbid a sexy woman or big beserker badass when they have a nasally little beta bitch voice. And invariably someone's going to be a tranny I'm trying to put on a really pathetic feminine sounding voice. Not that any of them know how to act to begin with.

It's just not worth the hassle imo

>>55032275
>>waaah do the work for me
He says, while wanting me to do the work for him.

Also, what is burden of proof?

>>55032294

>another autistic anglofag shits himself in rage

Ausfailian or United Cuckdom?

>>55032296
I've played and run changeling for what seems like far too long, also you'll generally get more traction just stating your shit and asking questions then asking for permission to do so.

So wait, which 2e is on the slate for next, changeling hunter or giest?

>>55032344
Changeling then Geist

Nobody cares about Hunter

>>55032353
> Nobody cares about Hunter

This meme again.

>>55032371

But it's the truth....

>>55032353
>Changeling
I can't believe they are delaying it even more with a Kickstarter. I bet it will add a bunch of things to an already finished book and push it out another year.

>>55032382
Read the thread, we've had people talk about Hunter more than Changeling and Geist.

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>>55032385
Cry me a river.

>>55032353
But anon, hunter is my favorite splat!

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>>55032406
Fuck off you transgendered otherkin piece of shit I want my spooky JoJo and I want it now!

>>55032385

If the Changeling 2e Kickstarter doesn't do a LOT better than the Dark Eras 2, it will be clear and convincing proof that we've hit peak CofD.

>>55032413

Anecdotal evidence.

If you cared so much you would be running a game of it. Right now even. Why you would run one every day of the week! For different groups of people so they can all experience the joy of Hunter! Why you would have been doing this the day it was released!

Yankee 'murican here.

My European and South American and Russian bros. You don't need to be fluent in the language or even the regional accents. Even having your accents while trying to do them is fine.

It's even more enjoyable actually because it's hilarious. Don't feel embarrassed, because it's legitimately hilarious.

Like. Imagine a Chinese or Japanese guy doing an Elvis impression. Anywhere from mangled 'English as perceived by someone that has only heard the songs and pronounces them the way the language sounds in their heads' or 'only knows how to speak the song to the tone and can't actually speak English or tell you what any of the words actually mean'

I get there's a certain degree of investment and immersion required of an ST and all but some of the best games I've ever played were done by complete nasally nerds. You don't have to paint them a lovely picture, you just need to describe what the picture contains and if the players are truly immersed, they'll make that picture themselves.

And probably giggle at some Eastern European trying to do a Clint Eastwood or Joe Pesci accent because THAT SHIT IS HILARIOUS.

>>55032440
Or maybe people don't give a shit about gaylings.

>>55032312
I actually have a group of people and we always play all the games by voice chat using roll20 and discord/ts, it's been like this for 3-4 years by now, and we are "mostly" fine. After a bad experience I had with the group recently (I did some worldbuilding of a game with cities-states and I actually dared give them consistency, and the players called that being "dispersive" because they are accustomed to plot driven and restricted campains of short lenght, and the idea of an open world wasn't good for them, also they didn't like the system I used) I felt like my work wasn't appreciated and I wanted to try another group to ST in, but the Italian scene is quite restricted, and I feel like I'm lucky that I found this group that still stands without breaking and without having too much drama in it, considering the human filth that infests the hobby. But it's like I'm being thankful for not getting shitted on, if you know what I mean.
Just try to imagine the kind of players I will attract if I would dare to try to run a campain of a less know WoD game.

>>55032453
Not him, but I'm in a regular Hunter game.

We're about to finish the story by crashing a vampire Elysium.

WITH NO SURVIVORS

>Changeling
>Werewolf

Which splat is gayer?

>>55032312
This. It's text for online, people you at least like in passing for in person.

>>55032464
They do care, it was one of the best selling 1e games, so much so they decided to do more than the original 4 books they were planning.

>>55032539
It remains to be seen if anyone will care about Rose's version though.

>>55032557
I know we are on 4chan and shit but, can we try to judge a person work based on his/her actual skill rather than he/she sex or whatever?
Can we just stop with the meme "splat X is just about trans/rape/insert-idiotic-comparison-here pandering"

>>55032501

Yeah, the kind of people you would attract are just not worth it, especially with voice chat. Text based games are even more Niche but they tend to weed out all but the most dedicated roleplaying types, usually.

>>55032587
You're picking up something that isn't there. Not in that post, at least. Rose has been mocked for being trans, but anon isn't talking about that. It literally remains to be seen how her version will be taken. Hearsay is that she's butchering it.

>>55032521

Both are. However, werewolf is like the militant aggressive musclebro fag who wants to celebrate his masculinity all the time and hates women and never shuts up about how much he hates women.

Changelings on the other hand are like flamboyant effeminate gays and whiny twinls, or more accurately they're like transwomen pretend to be all about embracing their femininity p'raps too hard and acting annoyingly girly. They are not traps though, especially not hot traps. Think the most annoying sparkledog snowflake sjw you can think of. That is Changeling.

>>55032521
>Changeling
>Werewolf
>Which splat is gayer?

Definitely Changeling.

>>55032521

Werewolf is like Brokeback Mountain gay whereas Changeling is tumblrite gay.

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>>55032660

Yes, Changelings are *fabulous*.

Werewolf is more like >picture<

>>55032695

What's vampire gay?

>>55032700
>mages have blue balls

>>55032700

But anon, those are Mages......

>>55032700
No, that's literally mage gay.

You know those Japanese mobile games with fat gay furries?

That is werewolf gay.

>>55032743

>werewolves are cute bara who deny their faggotry

Women everywhere are weeping.

>>55032716
emo goth gay is vampire gay

>>55032721
>mages have blue balls

That's what happens when oblate too much without supernal release.

>>55032595
But I fear that text games would be quite slow paced anyways and that with "most dedicated" you mean "most autistic" players

>>55032812

> chicken pecks at keyboard

Learn how to type, grandpa.

>>55032637
Yeah, I'm not a fan of what I've seen of her version so far. I was actually almost excited for 2e Changeling from Hill's previews, even though hes a dirty fucking commie.

>>55032587
He didn't even call Charles by his real name, chill out dude.

>>55032828
Some people have a thing called jobs kid. Can't be on the comp 24/7

>>55032839

Did he actually quit?

>>55032945
No he got too enthusiastic about the whole punching nazis thing and got his head cut off by the japanese neo-imperialists.

>>55032934

>works a job that doesn't require basic competency in typing

You really shouldn't try to out yourself as being poor.

>>55032934
Schools have taught typing for like a decade now.

>>55032945
A rapist named Zac Smith fucked his wife and then he got hired by Dracula. So he quit

>>55032957
Now now anon, Amy Pascal has proven you don't need basic competency in typing to get ahead in life

>>55032945
Zak Smith made him rage quit.

>>55032963
The raping of course being from an entirely different incident, Misses Hill was happy to have a real man for once.

>>55032969
>Amy Pascal
Who?

>>55032999

Is Misses Hill a man? With the people at OPP, you can never be sure.

>>55032957
You really shouldn't try to out yourself for not having a job.

>>55033008
Head of the NA Sony branch, huge dumbass, check out the Sony email leaks if you want the specifics.

>>55033012
Some say on that fateful night David sent his wife away and wore her things to try to catch Zak in the act, making his butthurt both metaphorical and very literal.

>>55033074

>>55032828
No matter how fast you type, you will never be able to type as fast as someone speak, anon.
That's basic knowledge.