/stg/ - Star Trek General - /trek/

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Why haven't you started a game in the Triangle yet, anons?

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>>54915178
Oh damn, this episode where Kes is a dominating bitch is great, too bad they had to justify it with having a male personality possess her.

Still scouting for a good workable location for my game. Considering the local Denny's as a possibility - they probably won't mind us taking up one table for our game and ordering drinks and food if we're there on a Monday afternoon...

>>54917114

I hated that episode actually. Of course I hated almost all of the Kes centric episodes, but that's just me.

>>54917149
Usually they're shit but this one has the advantage of not having a lot of the character.

>>54916203
Why do so many Sci-Fi shows have a creepy dream clown episode? What the fuck does that say about writers?

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>>54917416
Did Farscape? Or did Harvey count as a creepy dream clown?

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I'm pretty sure this guy
>>54915178
should quit the Voyager if he's having a bad reaction to it, it's not something everyone can handle.

>>54917438
His first appearance most definetly so, he got more relaxed after awhile.

I started with enterprise as it was on tv, then recently watched ds9 and voy. Tng has been awful so far in season 1. I liked voyager. Its worst episodes were never as bad as run away home or the tng pilot it just had a lot of inconsistent writing and/or mediocre episodes. The good episodes like the voth one were still good.

>>54917526
>Tng has been awful so far in season 1.
It instantly becomes amazing in season three. Well, after one episode, depending on your Wesley tolerance. The only eps before then worth watching are Measure of a Man and the season 2 Q one.

>>54917438
There's an episode in season 1 where Chrichton and that Peacekeeper that wanted him dead got stuck in a dreamworld/alternate dimension that was ruled over by a lunatic clown.

>>54917541
Maldis was best wizard, not clown.

>>54917540
Yeah I sat through every episode of voyager even workforce and the early chakotay episodes (muh dad, muh vision quests) so the idea there is even one episode this bad let alone a whole season is disheartening. Im liking tos and rewatching ENT.

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>>54916203
I can't really say why, but when the Doctor showed up and corrected his grip on the scalpel, it was one of my favorite Vger moments.

>>54917142
I've gamed at a Dennys during slow hours before, it worked out great.

>>54917562
Interesting question.
Exactly how much flair and dramatic panache can a villain have before they shift from stylish to clownish?

54916076
Bashir was very borderline augment ambition though, his best friends were an ex-Soldier and fucking Garak. This should have spooked fucking everyone. If he wasn't so much of a pussy he would have conquered something eventually, probly pro-Federation conquering though.

>>54917801
It seems more to me that Bashir is stupendously unambitious and chooses the company of people who can in certain areas can match or exceed his competence, probably out of respect issues.

>>54917826
Yeah, he could have had the ability but chose to just not and live it out in a fantasy land instead. For an augment he's really very specialized on being a high-functioning mediocre doctor.
>Barely even professionally recognized because of his age
>Not an obvious prodigy outshining the oldest of his peers
I mean clearly their augmentation process was flawed, judging by his special needs squad.

>>54917826
Bashir didn't get the full Khan treatment. He got his Downs sorted out and his mum and dad were all like "whilst we're here lets not settle for a half job".

What annoys me is how Star Fleet dealt with it.

Despite years of loyal service, countless lives saved and having repeatedly gone above and beyond for the Star Fleet and the UFP they decided to throw him away because "we just don't like your type around these here parts, boy". The justification was that some augments somewhere else centuries ago did some bad things.

And then they throw his dad in prison because Bashir joined Star Fleet. That's the sort of thing that reminds me of the good old USSR and how they wouldn't let you cross the border unless at least one family member remained behind as a totally not a hostage.

>>54917860
Or because of it being illegal on Earth and possibly the rest of the UFP if you want some work done you have to go to Space Tropico.

>>54916274
Do tell me more, stranger

>>54917886
Hey look, it's another "I didn't bother actually watching the episodes but I'll complain anyway" shitposter.

>>54917988
I did watch the episode.

O'Brian and the hologram specialist learned that Bashir was an augment by making a holographic imitation.

Hologram specialist files his report.

Ross makes noises that there will have to be repercussions because "muh Khan" got to discourage people from becoming better or everyone will be doing it. Which is bad for some reason.

Admiral Ross, Sisko and Bashir's dad come to an agreement behind closed doors and Dad Bashir gets sent to prison because someone has to be seen to be punished for this terrible crime of making a good doctor.

End on TOS worth funny note indicating that Bashir has been letting O'Brian win at darts for years.

>>54918053
What I want to know..surely not all the augments on Earth died out, and surely they had some kids. So what happened to the descendants of augments that didn't go powermad? Either there's a good chunk of humanity with some augment dna or there was some kind of witch hunt in the early days of the Federation that no one talks about.

>>54918111
You don't understand anon, genetic manipulation disrupts the natural course of evolution and the Cosmic Plan and is therefor super evil bad wrong. All of the Augments went evil down to the very last one so killing all of them was a good thing to do. Can't have that nasty anti-evolution blood polluting humanity, not one drop.

Also what the fuck happened to the human telepaths?

>>54918053
1) Regardless of his career, Bashir lied and covered up a serious crime for 14 or 15 years at the time of that episode. That's not the thing that Starfleet can or should take lightly.
2) Bashir's dad didn't get sent to prison just because Bashir joined Starfleet, he would have regardless of what Bashir did if that knowledge had gotten out. (It was two years in a minimum security facility by the way, he was out before the war ended)
3) Genetic manipulation is a very delicate and easily fucked-up process. For every one Bashir who turns out well there are dozens of augments like the others who show up who end up mentally FUBAR'd. Additionally, even if genetic manipulation was 100% perfect, allowing it would lead to a privileged class of augments dominating every important possession while everyone else became a sub-class simply because their parents didn't want to get their kids augmented, or couldn't afford to in the black market if still illegal. The Federation doesn't want a Gattaca situation.

>>54918053
>got to discourage people from becoming better or everyone will be doing it. Which is bad for some reason.

In universe it's bad for two reasons, first it's really dangerous procedure with high level of failures, those augmented people Bashir deals in the two later episodes are a norm rather than exception. Second for every Bashir you get several Khans who are really smart but also clearly mentally unstable people.

>>54918145
>genetic manipulation disrupts the natural course of evolution and the Cosmic Plan and is therefor super evil bad wrong.
>>54917886
>because "we just don't like your type around these here parts, boy". The justification was that some augments somewhere else centuries ago did some bad things.
>>54918053
>because "muh Khan" got to discourage people from becoming better or everyone will be doing it. Which is bad for some reason.
See: The Eugenics Wars
They were a series of conflicts fought on Earth between 1992 and 1996. (heh)
The result of a scientific attempt to improve the Human race through selective breeding and genetic engineering, the wars devastated parts of Earth, by some estimates officially causing some thirty million deaths, and nearly plunging the planet into a new Dark Age.

If you still have trouble understanding why they would be reluctant to reopen that Pandora's Box, I just feel sorry for you.

>>54918171
Also this.

>>54918171
The colony of happy, peaceful augmented humans in the TNG episode where people grow old quickly would seem to contradict that. The failed augments were done by UFP equivalent of back ally abortionists.

>Second for every Bashir you get several Khans who are really smart but also clearly mentally unstable people.
By that reasoning we should stop using matches because making matches causes phossy jaw. Understanding and procedure has moved on since WW3.

>>54918157
>1) Regardless of his career, Bashir lied and covered up a serious crime for 14 or 15 years at the time of that episode. That's not the thing that Starfleet can or should take lightly.

He was born on Earth to citizens of Earth, was more human than Spock, had no additional medical needs and beyond the infatuation with Jadzia had no psychological problems. I'm not seeing a problem.

>2) Bashir's dad didn't get sent to prison just because Bashir joined Starfleet, he would have regardless of what Bashir did if that knowledge had gotten out. (It was two years in a minimum security facility by the way, he was out before the war ended)

>3) Genetic manipulation is a very delicate and easily fucked-up process.
And isn't going to get any better until some time and effort is put into it, which will never happen so long as Star Fleet maintains the taboo.

>For every one Bashir who turns out well there are dozens of augments like the others who show up who end up mentally FUBAR'd.
Because they went to Space Cuba because the UFP doesn't like people getting better.

>The Federation doesn't want a Gattaca situation.
The Federation doesn't want a congenital disorder free society of healthy, long lived, intelligent people? Why the fuck not? This is some serious anti-vaxxer level shit

>>54918290
Genetic manipulation is allowed to deal with actual diseases. It's not allowed to turn your kid into Superman. It's only your headcanon that says that genetic manipulation isn't being looked at and you're retarded. Obviously if it's used for medical purposes then the process is still being developed. It's not allowed because the process when abused for augmentation purposes is still unstable. Come back when you have an argument actually based on what's presented in the shows and not your personal headcanon.

>>54918289
>If you still have trouble understanding why they would be reluctant to reopen that Pandora's Box, I just feel sorry for you.
Yes. I am.

Look at surgery from 400 years ago. It shows little relation to what we have now. I see no reason that it should not continue to get better for the next 400.

Khan was made with brutal 4 centuries old procedures than intentionally raised and taught by the UN to be a "Peace Keeping" super soldier and commander of super soldiers. He became a warlord.

Bashir was made with far better understanding and raised and taught by people that loved and cared for him as a person. He dedicated his life to helping the sick and afflicted.

The UFP, especially Star Fleet, is haunted by irrational fears.

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>>54918355
>Bashir was made with far better understanding and raised and taught by people that loved and cared for him as a person. He dedicated his life to helping the sick and afflicted.
Bashir was one anomaly that very clearly wasn't the norm for augments. Or in other words, WATCH THE FUCKING SHOW.

>>54918346
It's not allowed for cultural and historical reasons. Bashir was perfectly stable, and it seems likely that the source of Khan's megalomania was being taught from birth that he was better than other people and needed to conquer them for their own good.

>>54918346
>Genetic manipulation is allowed to deal with actual diseases
Which Bashir had
>It's not allowed to turn your kid into Superman
Why?
>Obviously if it's used for medical purposes then the process is still being developed
Then they should have made enough progress and understanding over the years to start safely making people less shit.
>It's not allowed because the process when abused for augmentation purposes is still unstable
How exactly do you define "augmentation purposes"? Anything above the average?
>Come back when you have an argument actually based on what's presented in the shows and not your personal headcanon.
I haven't stated anything that isn't derived from what has been seen in the show.

>>54918365
Were they made in a UFP sanctioned medical facility?

If yes you have a point. Though it does make the UFP hugely hypocritical.

If not then they were not made by UFP doctors but by shitty Space Cuban "medical" practitioners.

>>54918378
Pushing a Nurture ahead of Nature flies in the face of Star Fleet's "you belong with your own kind" policy.

>>54918384
>I haven't stated anything that isn't derived from what has been seen in the show.
It is literally only your headcanon that the Federation isn't working on making genetic manipulation safer, which is a retarded headcanon to have. Clearly they would be, since it's used by actual Federation physicians in legitimate, clearly-defined medicinal roles.

>>54918404
You have zero evidence that the procedure is any more or less safe wherever somebody has it done.

>>54918441
>It is literally only your headcanon that the Federation isn't working on making genetic manipulation safer, which is a retarded headcanon to have. Clearly they would be, since it's used by actual Federation physicians in legitimate, clearly-defined medicinal roles

And if that were the case then they should be getting good at it, but if augmentation is still illegal because they aren't good at it then they are either not exchanging notes or they aren't doing any new research into it.

So there would be no reason for their aversion beyond "muh Khan".

>>54918452
>And if that were the case then they should be getting good at it, but if augmentation is still illegal because they aren't good at it then they are either not exchanging notes or they aren't doing any new research into it.
Or maybe it's because genetics is fucking complicated and fucking around with that shit is an easy way to make mutant space cancer regardless of how long they've been working at it.

>>54918468
So the UFP, 150 inhabited technologically advanced words, trillions of well educated citizens, hundreds of thousands of medical professionals haven't been able to find a way of refining ye olde Earth genetic engineering?

Despite having working examples of it done right to copy.

And it's entirely possible that Khan and his kind would have been fine if they were raised to be something other than warlords and child soldiers. Also in the TOS episode it was outright stated by either Kirk or Scotty that Khan's empire was not aggressive and only took the territories of those who attacked him first, so despite being raised to be monstrous he wasn't entirely a bastard.

>>54918518
They haven't refined it in a way that results in no after effects. Cases like Bashir are happy outliers, not the norm. I don't know why this is difficult for you to grasp unless you're somehow expecting your fictional space people to be perfect gods or something.

>>54918535
The only people trying to refine it are criminals. It's illegal not only to use the technology as it existed 400 years ago, but also to try to make it better. The "only for treating disease" restriction is defined so narrowly that mental retardation is not considered a disease.

>>54918535
>Cases like Bashir are happy outliers
Nope

Not if you exclude things done outside the UFP. When done by competent doctors you get space people gods.

TNG Season 2 episode 7 Unnatural Selection.

Superior in every way and bar the immune system no ill effects and psychic powers.

So that's 8 good augments, 9 if you count Bashir against 4 fuck ups that may or may not have been done UFP doctors.

Assuming that there were only the 8 augments on the research planet that we see on screen.

>>54918599
I'd say that creating a disease that can wipe out all of humanity is a pretty big drawback.

>>54918577
>The only people trying to refine it are criminals. It's illegal not only to use the technology as it existed 400 years ago, but also to try to make it better.
Please stop posting if all you're going to do is spew headcanon, thank you.

>>54918634
It was only one flaw in the project, a pretty fucking big one admittedly, but only one.

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The Federation is big on "equality of opportunity", that being everyone should have the opportunity to better themselves based on their own interests and choices, not based on external factors that they can't control. They're not perfect in that regard, but they strive to ensure that whenever possible. By allowing genetic augmentation beyond simply curing diseases, it completely goes against that principle because people would therefore be limited based on what their parents did or did not decide to do with them when they were children or even before they were born. It's illegal primarily because of the insane number of drawback, but it also goes against the Federation on a core philosophical level.

>>54918599
I wonder what ever happened to those kids

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>>54918716
That relies on the flawed assumption that all people are created equal.

Also if take beta canon (because why not make it a real shit show) Spock had considerable work done so that a hybrid would even be possible and he is way smarter than the average Vulcan or Human. They didn't have a problem with him and Khan was for more recent history at that point

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>>54918746

>>54918702
It was a symptom of the greater issue with genetic manipulation, which is that it's nigh-impossible to foresee all possible outcomes. Who knows what can happen, so don't take the chance until things have been experimented on safely.

>>54918751
>That relies on the flawed assumption that all people are created equal.
Your personal beliefs are irrelevant.

>>54918751
Obviously every individual isn't the same otherwise we'd be a race of identical clones or robots, but the Federation wants to ensure to the best of its ability that every person has the chance to pursue their interests to the best of their respective abilities, instead of "sorry honey but mommy and daddy didn't select the Quantum Max Deluxe Superman Package Mark 12 when you were a fetus, so you're stuck scrubbing plasma conduits for the rest of your life"

>>54918867
Then in the post-scarcity UFP that was entirely the fault and cruelty of the parents. Just because one child has idiot anti-vaxxer parents doesn't mean I should have to let my kid get polio.

>>54918905
Stop using anti-vaxxer analogies when it's been repeated over and over that medical uses are fine. The problem with Bashir wasn't that he was cured of his retardation (and even then it can be argued that Bashir would've turned out fine anyway and his parents just overreacted when he was a fucking 6 year old), the problem is that they augmented him over and above that.

>>54918905
How do we know your kid getting polio isn't part of some Cosmic Plan? Has your kid invented warp drive on his own, because we can't help him unless he has. Rules.

>>54918929
I'll stop using the anti-vaxxer comparison when it stops being comparable.

Vaccines are unnatural. Nature is fucking awful. If we lived in a natural state we would be scavengers and grazers doing a bit of hunting on the side, getting ill a lot, occasionally trodden on by big woolly fuckers, getting ill a lot and being hilariously racist against other extended family groups.

Genetic engineering is unnatural. It could also be used, and in the Star Trek universe has, to massively improve the quality of life for the masses.

Some doctors turned a retarded child into a genius. I'm not seeing the problems. And Bashir was a retard, at age 6 he couldn't tell the difference between a cat and a dog.

>>54918992
>I'll stop using the anti-vaxxer comparison when it stops being comparable.
It's not comparable in the slightest. Anti-vaxxers are conspiracy nuts who think curing disease will make kids retarded when it won't. Genetic manipulation has actual real legitimate and concrete problems. If anything arguing against that is more analogous to anti-vaxxers.

A closer analogy would be a drug like meth where there are accepted medical uses, but it's still heavily restricted because they don't want some asshole getting hopped up on it and going psychotic. Only in this case, the psychosis would be permanent so it's even worse.

>Some doctors turned a retarded child into a genius. I'm not seeing the problems.
Casting judgment based on result and not the act is the worst way to go about a judicial system. Bashir only turned out fine because he's a main character.

>>54919036
>It's not comparable in the slightest. Anti-vaxxers are conspiracy nuts who think curing disease will make kids retarded when it won't.

It's not comparable in the slightest. Anti-augments are conspiracy nuts who think attempting to better the species will make kids warlord when it won't.

>>54919036
>>54919054
It's pretty close to antivaxxers really.
>Docs augment some people, super soldiers. Normal folks dont understand why but it's bad.
>Docs augment some people, mostly spastics, normal folks don't understand why but it's bad.
>Docs augment sick kids, they stop being sick, normal folks don't understand the difference so its all in who they get their information from as to whether it's bad or good.
If they could get healthy sane supersoldiers they still wouldn't understand the difference.

Vaccines caused potential retard babies forever ago, normal people don't know why but that's bad. Now vaccines have improved (even though its arguable medical ethics have) normal people don't understand the difference so its good or bad depending on who they rely on to give them this information.

>>54917463
They do have accelerated aging!

>>54919054
You know there's this group of dudes you might get along with, they're big on perfection, kind of a collective really.

Hey, quick thought.

How would you guys represent augments in ST:A? My first thought was giving them bonus traits or talents in exchange for flaws, but there's no real drawback or insanity system yet. Any opinions?

>>54919486
You could represent it narratively. I presume we're talking about the Eurasian augments. So you could give them those bonus traits and then have them gradually turn on one another.

Or, if you're looking to have them as pcs or friendly npcs you could make them do a roll every few turns to see if they still consider the nominal leader of the group to be the strongest/smartest. If they fail it you're forced to fight them.

>>54916203
What's up with the added /trek/ thing in the title?

>>54919722
Khan's people never showed any disloyalty

>>54919745
Khan is also essentially the augment messiah, so you wouldn't really find augments turning against him. But if we're going for the "superior intellect breeds superior ambition" augments, then I think the best way to balance them out if to make them fractious and self interested. See the Nietzscheans (I almost spelt it right first time) in Andromeda.

>>54919722
I was thinking more like Bashir and his pals. Superior minds but kind of unstable. Eurasian augments may be showing up in my game but aren't really appropriate for play.

>>54919815
Well then I suppose you'd have to build your own supplementary traits/talents that are negative versions of the currently available ones.

>>54920310
That's the one.

Bar that one flaw they were pretty much demigods.

>>54919054
>when it won't.
Non-canon, come back with a better argument based on canon material.

>>54917114
>too bad they had to justify it with having a male personality possess her
Implying that the thought of meek, innocent actual Kes trapped in her body and simultaneously feeling disgusted and kind of... ...intrigued by all the new experiences she's been having on account of Tieran's actions. doesn't make it better.

>>54919893
I was thinking of that anyway, since overcoming personal shortcomings is a big part of every trek series. Maybe have them be anti-beliefs that give you determination when you overcome them.

Hey, peeps that have played New Horizons, how do you survive/thrive as Bajor? I want to try an Ironman run with them but every game I've played as other powers has Bajor getting curbstomped by Cardassia within the first 50 years. Any advice?

>>54921742
>Bajor
>not getting stomped
Don't be Bajor.

>>54919440
The Borg have done for cybernetics what the augments did for genetic improvements.

Unless humanity grows some fucking balls it will be condemned to an eternity of mediocrity.

>>54921742
Haven't played it.
What sort of ships does Bajor have? The usual triangles?

Or do they upgrade to the warship triangle like in the salvage yard in Unification?

>>54919054
>Anti-augments are conspiracy nuts who think attempting to better the species will make kids warlord when it won't.

As was pointed out, from the show we know:

1) Augmenting is a very dangerous procedure with high levels of failure,
2) Just a few episodes after learning Bashir is an augment, we have Bashir encountering some other augments who are mentally unstable, a fact which the show points out is the norm. This would be a good 300+ years after the Eugenics Wars, with 300+ years of advancement in science.

Star Trek isn't totally against genetic manipulation or cybernetics. Picard has an artificial heart, Geordi has his VISOR and then later artificial eyes, and no one seems to raise objections to things like growing new organs to replace damaged ones (i.e., the lady McCoy grows a new kidney for in Trek IV rather than letting her go through the to-him barbaric kidney dialysis procedure)

It's purely when you try and improve that the Federation raises objection, and all the evidence we've seen suggests that that concern is well-founded within the Star Trek universe.

>Unless humanity grows some fucking balls it will be condemned to an eternity of mediocrity.

"Mediocrity" here being defined as "being the plurality and most influential species species in the largest and most powerful stellar nation in the Galaxy, with our homeworld as the capital world, where poverty, sickness, and war have largely been eliminated, the human lifespan typically reaches into the 150s, and everything is just fundamentally better for everyone in any meaningful way, and none of this comes at the expense of the other races in the Federation, in fact they all get the same benefits"

I'll live a "mediocre" life like that any day.

I haven't been in the thread since last night, and haven't posted until now, but I'm going to leave this here:

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Genetic_engineering

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>>54922093
On that note, in the TNG episode where Worf is switching timelines he ends up in one where the Bajorans were a major threat.

Presumably they beat down the Cardassians instead of the other way around.
I know it's never pictured in the show, but would this thing make sense for their warships?

>>54922093
The usual Triangles. They get a special starting Impulse engine design, solar sails, that's cheaper than the standard starting impulse drive. Other than that they're a standard start as a theocratic republic.

>>54918355
>Yes, I am having trouble understanding because I consider the development of surgery from 400 years ago to now exactly equal to events resulting in a series of conflicts causing thirty million deaths and nearly plunging the planet into a new Dark Age.
I just feel sorry for you.

>>54922510
And I feel sorry for you.

>>54922452
In the last season of DS9 we get a look at new, Bajor built ships. They sort of look like the Daedalus from Stargate. Here's a full gallery of all the designs we see.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/bajorans1.htm

>>54921742
Alright, here's what ya do. Early tech focus on weapons and industry. First unity focus on prosperity because you're gonna need the minerals and energy, lickety split. You can explore your immediate surroundings with 2 science ships, but you're gonna want to build a third to seek out and make contact with the Trill, Betazoids and Catians. They're immediately up, right and down from Bajor so you should have too much problem finding them. You already have similar ethics to them so get an NAP with each of them and drop some spare resources into them to get them in side. You can coalition-up with the 3 in short order. The Cardies will be much less likely to invade in the short term but you'll need to get good with the Feddies to stand a chance by a century in.

>>54923604
All of which are redresses or previously used models. Including the Karemma ship redressed for Bajoran impulse ship.

I figure in a timeline where the Bajorans didn't get crushed they'd have something a bit sturdier. And, you know, more warp capable.

>>54923852
If we're talking about the scenario as put forward in the TNG episode they'd likely look much the same, as the Bajorans are said to have risen up against the Cardassians successfully.

But if we're talking about an independant, unconquered Bajor then the ships would likely look unrecogniseable. The triangle ships we see in DS9 are repurposed freighters bought and stolen from other races. So Bajoran designed warp vessels would look entirely different, especially seeing as their introduction to interstellar travel came with the solar sail and not the warp drive.

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>>54924740
>especially seeing as their introduction to interstellar travel came with the solar sail and not the warp drive
Oh hi.

>>54924787
Oddly, it would fit that the Baku are Bajorans that left Bajor because they thought this whole "organised society" shtick was too new fashioned for them. Barring the physical differences, of course. Bt honestly I put that down to pure laziness on the production team's side.

>>54924842
>But honestly I put that down to pure laziness on the production team's side.

How long can Star Trek keep laying that card?

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/human-aliens.htm

>>54924981
Forever anon. Because we're much more likely to empathise with aliens we might want to fuck.

>>54924981

Real talk: Humans in makeup is going to make for a better experience than CGI monstrosities that the living actors can't react to. Puppets were fun in Farscape, but most mainstream audiences see them as cheap gimmicks or relics of the past.

Puppets are also extremely expensive.

>>54918289
>See: The Eugenics Wars
So, "muh Khan". If the UFP were as consistent in their obsession with 300-year-old bogeymen, they never would've even gotten back into space.

>>54925940
It's obviously not just "muh Khan" when the same shit keeps happening in the late 24th century.

>"b-b-but they haven't improved!"
By your own headcanon only.

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*Romulan theme plays*

>>54920949
Please point me to which of the 24th century augments were warlords. Please point me to any post-Eurasian Augments that went and became conquerors of worlds.

>>54928221
>I haven't seen any cases of this disease, therefore we don't need to vaccinate against it
Who's the anti-vaxer again?

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>>54928221
The whole point of their anti-augment policies is so that augments with ambition, aggressiveness and sociopathic tendencies, like for example Jack, don't become warlords.

>>54928289
>maybe we should research this field fully to discover what is and isn't safe to do
>nah this 300 year old history book really spooked me, just make it all illegal
still you, kiddo

>>54928321
Jack can barely interact with people. I don't see him raising any flags over burned cities anytime soon.
I just don't think that a few illegal hackjobs should create a total moratorium on the entire field. I'm not even against banning certain augmentations which can't be controlled/predicted, but surely quality of life enhancements shouldn't be off the table.

New trailer for Discovery. It's... well it's certainly a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2g9sfhtBRo

>>54928490
>MY HEAD CANON IS RIGHT WHY WON'T YOU LISTEN
Still waiting for an actual argument.

>>54928529
Wow, the Klingons look even worse here. Like they're all wearing the rubber nipples batman suit on their bodies. And the sarcophagus ship apparently can cloak, to boot.

Is SFU as cool as it looks? I really like the idea of Prime Teams.

>>54921861
Is video game, comrade. Can do whatever you want. Is not even serious thought crime.

>>54924842
>The Baku are an ancient Pah Wraith cult
>meaning they're the actual bad guys
I'd watch that.

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>>54928529
Yep, that was a collection of video footage and sound alright.

I think it might have been supposed to elicit an emotional reaction of some sort but for me at least, it failed.

>>54928672
It's very much grognard star trek. I don't think 'cool' is right. But there are a lot of fairly neat things and good ideas tucked away behind ancient game and visual design. Prime Teams are one of those good ideas.

>>54926977
Shit guys while we were farting around with the wannabe borg the rommies showed up we're fucked!

>>54929019
Do you even check your sensors, Picard!?

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>>54929268
Read that as if it was him.

Damn he was great. Fucking useless git Sela stealing his thunder because no-one had the balls to say no to the stupid idea of her.

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>>54928529
Hmm... Honestly, This show can really nail the Star Trek theme and motiffs. I'm very disappointed they went with YAP (Yet Another Prequel) but this can be vastly interesting...if they do it right. Is this going to be set in tangent JJ Abrams-verse? or Original TV series universe?

>>54929475

It's either prime canon or a complete reboot, based on things recently said.

Either way, it looks like shit.

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>>54929520
hmm I don't think I can stand for another complete reboot... If it is, then I'm out. But if it fits into the Trek timeline...makes sense...and doesn't rip apart everything we've read/watched up until now, then I"ll try it out. Like I said It could provide some interesting story. But if they do what happened with Disney/Star Wars and just remove huge masses of story and cannon..then..yea fuck that

>>54929475
>>54929598
TNG has already established that there is canonically an infinite number of timelines, therefore absolutely everything is canon, just in a different timeline. Discovery likewise is canon following from this, so anything that's seemingly a discrepancy between it and another show or movie can be chalked up as just being a parallel timeline.

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>>54929658

That is...literally the biggest cop out of any TV series. It's what turns me off of Trek. They just make shit up, and stuff it into magical "It's Science" excuses. or "In the future they can do that"....Star Trek is NOT hard science by any stretch..People complain that Star Wars is too fantasy derived, but Star Trek ain't far behind... It picks and chooses when it wants to be serious and when it wants to just make shit up and shoehorn crap reasoning for the sake of a story.

>>54929775
Well at least it's a reason. As far as I know the official line is still that Discovery is set in the original 'prime' timeline. Despite it making no sense, and the only reason they're saying that has got to be to try and attract people who didn't like the concept of a spin-off timeline aka the Abrams films.

Honestly I have no problem with alternate timelines and spinoffs. It's just a convenient way to try going over the same stuff but different. I mean TOS started it for Star Trek back with the mirror universe so there's historical justification.

An alternate universe is far better than the option they're presenting us with in maintaining it's the 'prime' timeline. If you think back to 2009, the Abrams film peoples had to keep fighting against the outcry from people thinking the new films invalidated the old canon. The backlash was pretty big and bitter, and I suspect that some of the film scenes were re-shoots and add-ins to really arse-cover themselves in that department once they found out that people still care and it'd cost them some amount, even if Abrams didn't give a fuck. Discovery is running into the same because they're apparently maintaining a really bad for PR position that it's meant to fit in with the old shows, where clearly it doesn't.

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>>54929985
Yea you're probably right. What's worse about this happening to Discovery though, is that this is a TV show, with a much more limited budget, and less of a "name" behind the leadership. Atleast Abrams had more pull and could force others hands. I'm not sure that Star Trek Discovery will have that much influence and seems like it's going to get dragged through the mud, or have to fight tooth and nail for any sort of big changes made...so yea maybe your right..maybe a "tangent universe" story may be better/easier for both sides..(audience and writers)

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Also..I think my biggest problem/gripe with Star Trek, is there are and were just too many writers. To me, honestly there has been no trek series that seems consistent, or even cohesive. MAYBE parts of Voyager..but because of the natural serialization of episodes AND the fact that Trek gets so many guest writers and swamps them around it leaves all of the TV series, feeling like random camp fire stories instead of a crew on a real vessel.

>>54930367
My sense is that Voyager is only the most consistently-written series with regard to quality, or rather the absence thereof.

But I agree with your broader point, even as it makes me want a series deliberately constructed to illustrate different perspectives, instead of merely showcasing future-everymen in disparate setpieces-of-the-week.

>>54930457

>> instead of merely showcasing future-everymen in disparate setpieces-of-the-week.
fucking this.

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>>54930179
You've hit the nail on the head with this:
>less of a "name" behind the leadership

Abrams at least, despite basically not giving a fuck about star trek, was a known element. When he got to star trek, people figured it'd turn out ok since he'd already made a star wars film in Star Trek 2009. Might not be great but here we are.
For Discovery, frankly I've heard more good about the names NOT attached than the ones driving the show, and the ones in the driving seat are known for fucking up and producing crap.

Contrast with The Orville, where personal opinions about MacFarlane aside, that guy clearly fucking loves what Star Trek was, and wants to make more things that, if not exactly like it, at least following it in the core themes rather than just using the brand as a veneer pasted over the surface of something else.

Consider this: The Orville due to, fuck it I dunno, alien space bat magic, is just now confirmed as a genuine Star Trek spinoff rather than just a suspiciously similar loving parody. All that really changes is the ship gets a bit more Star Trek and a bit less Galaxy Quest, and they get the appropriate insignia and names on stuff. How'd the fandom take that?

Personally, I think people would be a bit baffled that Star Trek is back but not as a gigantic budget serious space drama/action, but given the alternatives, pretty sure it'd be very quickly accepted if it's even remotely decent. Maybe a stepping-stone to something bigger, something to check and see if the spin-off concept is viable for TV as a way to keep 'trek alive without it becoming too radically different. And if not, well it was pretty much just some odd spin-off very high budget fan project that didn't change anything about all the stuff we liked in the first place.

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What's stoping an independent colony world from saying fuck it and ignoring the ban on augmentation, going full EVE capsuleer and becoming a anarchist "empire"? Would this make a interesting antithesis to the Borg?

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>>54930534
That should have been:
*when he got to Star Wars, the general audience thought it'd turn out ok.

>>54930599
>What's stoping an independent colony world from saying fuck it and ignoring the ban on augmentation
Absolutely nothing, anyone not part of the Federation is not bound by Federation law and the Prime Directive prohibits the Federation from forcibly imposing anything unless the idiots decide to declare war and start attacking people. Of course, the Federation can simply refuse to trade with them and blockade any shipments and persons going through Federation space, but if there's a non-aligned world that can scrape together the resources to do that without stepping on the Federation's toes then the Federation will do nothing to stop them beyond waving their finger and going "we don't like you doing this"

>becoming a anarchist "empire"?
Would require them to hold back from attacking any Federation worlds or any worlds the Federation has treaties with, which would severely limit their expansion potential.

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>>54930606
What little did they know...

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>>54930708
Also, just because your reject Federation "hiveminding" doesn't mean you're an enemy to the Feds. You just choose to operate outside of their parameters. They're not seen as enemies of the state so to speak by default.

Anyone got a good StarFleetBattles trove? I feel the urge to blow up some Klingons.

>>54918111
There's a reason half Klingons can exist - augment DNA in both parents. This actually explains Torres's brain problems so I'm keeping it.

>>54929985
The real reason is that CBS doesn't have rights to the JJ verse and won't pay Paramount for a license. It's shekels all the way down.

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holy fuck janeway is retarded. The actor is not bad but fuck me if her opinions make no sense. She's willing to bend over backwards and interfere with certain races (genocide of 8437, saving Belana from that worm, blowing up the array, attacking those garbage dump radiation guys etc)

But anytime someone else has an "intuition" (Paris, Chakotay) she shuts them down and goes >muh prime directive on them

I dont recall Picard, Kirk or Sisko being this badly written. Her own stupid decision making got them stuck in the Delta quadrant to begin with how did no one kill this woman

ENT season 4 and season 3 should be switched. Shran shoulda been on the ship for the Xindi arc. The series shoulda ended with Archer dying on the superweapon and the NX-01 exploding blowing up the spheres.

Also, they missed a huge fucking opportunity by downplaying T'pol's membership in Starfleet. The first ET non-human in Starfleet is at least worth a speech.

>>54916274
I am but it's not called the triangle and it's not TOS.

>>54932531
Mulgrew said she started playing Janeway as if she had PTSD because of how nutso the inconsistent writing made her act.

>>54932531

Welcome to Voyager. Come for the coffee, stay for the crazy.

>>54917746
TNG has great episodes in seasons 1 and 2. Voyager on the whole is dog shit compared to TNG. Stick with it. You will not be disappointed.

>>54917952
It's a setting of wild adventure, a sector of space bordered equally by the Klingons, Federation and Romulans. Add some wild cat Feddie colonies, and the Imperial Klingon States (a splinter from the Ford era Klingons, led by a General who thinks the Empire are a bunch of pussies. Considering that the FASA Empire joined the Federation, he may not be wrong), Orions, and other factions, and you have a shitload of potential. It's arguably one of the best things to come out of Trek as a whole, since the independent Human colonies are fiercely against anyone coming and trying to fuck with their way of life, and one adventure has a group stealing a Romulan cruiser and making ghetto cloaks,

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>>54928529
why do the klingons look like mongopotamian statues? did they really think redesigning shit like established alien species, uniforms and ships to the JJ Lensflare style was going to sell?

Cant judge how good it is, might not be awful but fuck me if they arent marketing this to the lowest common denominator

also that fucking cinematic bass drop at the end of the trailer ruined any shred of trek it had hiding in there. How much you guys wanna be there's gonna be a half naked decontamination/angst scene on the first episode?

>>54932562

ENT is essentially "Missed Opportunities: The Show". It's a shame because I find it much more watchable than VOY, but at the same time the fact that it consistently fails to live up to its potential is massively disheartening.

The theme song is also irritating to sit through, whereas VOY's isn't bad.

>>54932652
ENT is like a completely different show every season, totally spastic but kinda good in every individual iteration. Yeah, fuck the theme.

>>54932607
that makes sense, she did what she could I suppose. I liked the character up until season 5, she's just a mess now

Hope to see less of 7of9 learning to be human (it got old with Data) and more of Paris and his cheese. He reminds me of TOS for some reason. Him and Tim Russ are probably the only reason I watch the show

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>>54932679
and Picardo. He's easily the best character on Voyager

>>54932652
I think Archer and the black guy are great. Tripp is tolerable at times but I fucking hate the rest of them. Tpol the doctor and Phlox are extremely boring and are only relevant when the plot needs someone

>>54932703
Picardo steals the show everywhere he goes, Combs tier.

>>54932652
The ENT theme grew on me, VOY's theme is uninspired garbage. "We need aTrek theme but we don't want to pay for it!"

>>54932624
>TNG has great episodes in seasons 1 and 2.
I don't remember any in 1, thought the one with the crystal creatures was okay iirc.

>>54932652
>>54932664
Let's all say it together: FUCK YOU RICK BERMAN. The reason being that he chose that theme music. But then again it was obvious Berman hated the music in the shows as he fucking fired a composer that won an Award for the music he had done to TNG.

>>54928529
I'd watch that movie but it looks shitty for a series.

>>54932652
ITS BEEN A LONG ROAD

>>54932786
GETTING FROM THERE TO HERE

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>>54932720

Reed is the only good main cast character. Mayweather is unfortunately, a non-entity, much like Hoshi. Archer is a frustrating nincompoop. Phlox's actor is great, but Phlox himself is terrible. I don't hate T'pol, but she's meh overall.

Shran is the best character of the series, even though they ruin him in the final episode for no reason.

>>54932759

VOY's is forgettable, but at least it's not a shitty pop song. If it grew on you, fine, but that song is trash and an embarrassment to the franchise.

>>54932773

Berman and Braga both can go fuck themselves.

>>54932786
GETTIN FROM THERE TO HERE

>>54932807
>>54932798
ITH BEEN A LONG TIME

>>54932824

BUTT MUH THYME IS FINE'LEE NEAR

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>>54932803
>Tfw this smug fucker is more successful than everyone involved with enterprise

>>54932803
Whattabout Trip.
I fucking hated him, only character who imo actively made the show worse. Didn't mind Phlox.

>>54932824
BUT MY TIME IS FINALLY NEAR
the same noun shouldn't be in two adjacent lines, it's lazy

>>54932856

Trip is 100% Grade A awful. With a side of catfish.

>>54932866
>>54932856
Trip is great. A fan favorite from Enterprise.

>>54932786

So, interesting side note:

The ENT theme song originally appeared in the movie Patch Adams in 1998. ENT is using Patch Adams gross leftovers. Let that sink in.

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Where_My_Heart_Will_Take_Me

>>54932884
Trip shoulda been chillin' at home when the Xindi attacked.

>>54932772
Conspiracy. Neutral Zone reintroduces the Romulans. Datalore. We'll Always Have Paris. A few others. Not top tier over all of TNG but still good and way fucking better than 150 of Voyage's episodes.

>>54932952
Neutral Zone had no good parts without Tomalak on screen, but overall I guess you're right.

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Now all I need to do is call tomorrow and cancel my sub

>>54932850
>>54932856
AND I CAN SEE MY DREAM COME ALIVE AT LAST

>>54933009
BECAAAUSE MUH DAD DESIGNED THE DRIVE
I GET TO BE CAP-TAN

>>54933015

AAAN MUH RETARDED FRIEND WHO LIKES CATFISH CAN BE CHEEF ENJUNEEER

>>54933034
CUZ I GOT PULL IN MY HEART
I'M GOING WHERE THE VULCANS DON'T WANT ME

>>54932891
I didn't think enterprise could get any worse

>>54933003
is that game good? I want to play a star trek miniatures game that isnt an rpg

>>54933055

TRIP'S GONNA GET PREGGERS, BUT I GOTS FAYTH OF THE HART

I'm watching 3-13 "Fair Trade" with my dad and we agree that everything which breaks down on the ship really should do so irreparably. They should be jury-rigging Talaxian warp cores and Androlian disruptor cannons into the superstructure with Ductarian hyper-tape.

>>54933188

We never did get that VOY Tech Manual, and they never mentioned it, but presumably, Voyager herself has an industrial replicator.

What would have been great for the show (and less so for the crew) is if that replicator was one of the things that was damaged during the pilot episode.

One of the first big decisions would be whether or not they pull the all the personal food replicators out and use those as a jury rigged industrial replicator.

>Ductarian hyper-tape

The Ductarians are a proud, but fowl people.

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is this the only trek relationship that didn't feel forced?

inb4 Tuvok and his hot nubian wife

>>54933477
Tuvok x Neelix was less forced than that shit.

>>54933513
if only.
I'm serious, the couples onscreen are all pathetic. Picard and vaj, Ryker and Troi, Geordie and that huge bitch of a scientist, Kes and Neelix, Obrien and keiko.

Some of the single appearance romances were okay, worf and his babe of a mate, Jadzia and her ex wife, Mirror universe Kira and literally everyone

Paris and Torres was just natural, the biggest bitch on the ship is 100% guaranteed to bang the horndog badboy pilot

>>54933595
Geordie and his Waifu version of bitch scientist was better. Kira/Kira was best though.

>>54933595
>>54933618
All O'Brien couples were tippy-top tier.
O'Brien/Cardassian, O'Brien/Kira, O'Brien/Bashir, even O'Brien/Bajoran hate-ghost.

>>54933663
>All O'Brien couples but Miles/Keiko were tippy-top tier.
Fugg,

>>54933663
O'Brien/Bashir love-hate bromance was truly amazing.

>>54933669
>After the kid they become swingers
Just replace all Keiko's bullshit about careers into getting stuck in a marriage too-young cause they were fuckbuddies on a starship with no other romance options.

>>54930599
Well that's sort of happened with "The Masterpiece Society". The colonist there decided Earth were being unreasonable and fucked off to build their own engineered society.

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>>54933663
>bajoran hate ghost

>>54933663
what about that weirdo he was in jail with

didn't he kill him over food or something

>>54933808
And sterilized themselves with the cloaking field iirc.
Some fucking geniuses.

>>54933840
They weren't a couple, they were butt-buddies.

>>54933687
that actually would have fixed a lot of their problems

>>54932866
But the Catfish ain't half bad.

>>54933847
wrong episode m8

The masterpiece society were the ones threatened by the stellar fragment moving through their system.

>>54933898
Neither was that episode, honestly.

>>54933081

If you mnean attack wing? It's a mess. It should be the easiest thing in the world, just take the Trek license and copy/paste it onto the XWM ruleset. Yet somehow Wizkids manage to out-rulebloat FFG, despite having less waves, hide good cards behind promotional events rerelease everything twice as """"Repaints"""" or three times in some cases and then make FAQ's that completely overpower the Borg, realise the Borg are overpowered and not in a show realistic way, more in a "can teleport about the board for no good reason" way. Backpedal on previous FAQ's and Errata to make them sensible again. Somehow manage to run out of ideas and decide to just do stuff from Enterprise.

Even though it's trek and there are literally THOUSANDS of designs they could use.

I mean, it's X-Wing with Star Trek's license, so at the core of it, it's still good, but it's also WizKids, who have legally notarised difficulty in not urinating their own sleeping arrangements.

>>54934321
>>54933081
It's not a minis game, they're scale minis made to just hang around and look nice. I got some kind of promo offer where subscribing got me the BoP for $5, but each ship costs $20 so I'm cancelling mine and just being happy with getting the BoP and the E-D for $12.50 each.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CsNZqeXU_4&list=RDQM2kb3wSoZCb4&index=3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dnZHea_TI0&index=1&list=RDQM2kb3wSoZCb4
Never realized before how "classical" the TOS soundtrack was.

>>54933669
>>54933663
O'Brien/Keiko was definitely real, but not in a cute way. When Tom and B'elanna had relationship problems it was very sitcom and resolved by the end of the episode. "Oh, B'elanna has started trying to kill herself on the holodeck, but now that we've talked about it it's fixed and will never come up again." With Miles and Keiko it's one long deathmarch where nothing ever gets better no matter how much you both try to fix it, like a real relationship.

>>54935042
Remember when B'elanna ASSAULTED AND MINDRAPED THE DOCTOR for the purpose of forcing him to conduct ILLEGAL GENE THERAPY on her unborn baby? Remember how she didn't get in trouble for that at all? Then remember how Harry got in trouble for getting an STD even though Janeway openly admitted she wouldn't have punished Tom for doing the same thing?

>>54935116
Compared to straight up murdering Tuvix in cold blood whilst he was begging for his life a bit of favouritism is small change.

>>54935142
Point taken, but I keep forgetting and re-remembering all the little ways in which Janeway makes bad decisions. It's not just the big stuff. You can zoom in as much as you like and it'll be just as bad as the stuff like killing Tuvix and selling weapons to the Borg. She's not just bad; she's fractally bad.

>>54929598

Pruning all of the EU garbage was the best thing that Disney could have done. 90% of it was pure trash that didn't fit with the movies at all.

>>54935186

Janeway is a fucking atrocity and should have been put in prison once voyager got back to the Federation and the Admiralty got to look back at what the fuck she'd actually done.

The true crime is how she managed to get through Starfleet Academy without anyone ever noticing that she was a fucking sociopath.

>>54935531
Superior coffee breeds superior subversion, anon.

>>54935531
The frustrating thing about Janeway is that her character flaws were completely unintentional. When Picard and especially Sisko do something morally questionable, there's a context to it and people talk about it. Janeway does what she does for no other reason than to maintain the episodic format mandated by the studio. Why does Janeway kill Tuvix? Because we can't still have him around at the end of the episode. Why does she intentionally strang Voyager in the Delta Quadrant at the end of the pilot, allegedly to protect the Ocampa, only to completely abandon the Ocampa to their fate an episode later? Because they can't stay on one planet for more than one episode. Why does Sisko poison that Maquis planet? Because he feels betrayed and he's had it up to here with those fuckers. See the difference?

I feel like I need to watch voyager just so that I can appreciate all of the complaints about it.

>>54917463
OH SWEET JESUS! What happened?

>>54935815
Well, she's gotta be, like, 800 in Ocampan years by now.

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>>54935815
Mental illness of some form. Not even drugs related iirc, and she's been out of the acting game for years.

I didn't hate Kes, I just hated she was attached to Nelix. The character herself had some decent potential, she actually cared about shit, wanted to explore and stuff... but was stuck with Nelix. Which was disgusting. More disgusting than when she was eating bugs and flowers (which was kinda neat I guess).

>>54935743
Don't.

>>54935743
Do it. If you watch it ironically it becomes enjoyable. It even has a couple of genuinely good episodes.

Motherfuckers at cryptic hunger for money i see.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10613254

>>54936293
None of those really stand out as something I want, though. Maybe the Jem Hadar attack ship.

>>54935743

You can, but you'll hate it.

>>54932562
>>54932664
>>54932759
>>54932773
>>54932786
>>54932798
>>54932824
>>54932850
>>54933009
>>54933015
>>54933034
>>54933055
>>54933083
I've said it before, and I'l say it again - if ENT had had a more "traditional" Trek intro, it wouldn't have been as pilloried.

Never saw Enterprise. The only thing I know about it is that in Star Trek Timelines, everytime you select Mayweather he says "Mayweather!" So I imagine him as some kind of Pokemon or Hodor.

>>54938060
That's really not far off

>>54938060
Half the time the writers just forgot that he was there.

>>54930534
This desu. Plus, The Orville gets Braga as well.

>>54932531
>>54932607
>>54932622
>>54932624
>>54935186
>>54935531
>>54935701

Consider the following:
>Bujold gets the part of Janeway instead of Mulgrew
>the writing is exactly the same
Discuss.

>>54941422
She had no screen presence, at least Mulgrew gave an air of leadership

>>54941422
I don't really know anything about her other than the test footage we saw... but there's no way she'd carry the show as captain. She had no presence or gravitas. Mulgrew certainly had both, fuck knows why they didn't pick her first.

She might have been stuck playing Janeway, but Mulgrew at least was capable of holding her own as an actor, to the point that even with being stuck with a lousy writing, Janeway can still be counted for at least 50 to 75% of the time as being a convincing commander.

>>54941718
It would be the adventures of Kathryn the Space /r9k/ Poster and her pretty princess points.

>>54941240
Not gonna lie, I'm really looking forward to the Orville

>>54941750
Agree. She just suffers from bad writing, her opinions make little sense (throwing paris in the brig for something she's pretty much done a bunch of times, then later re-promoting him while Kim is literally an Ensign for 7 years)

https://www.modiphius.net/collections/star-trek-adventures

what do you guys think of this? is it going to be fun? I just want a Trek tabletop game that isnt fucking heroclix

>>54943971
noob here, have you seen ST: Ascendancy? Might be what youre looking for

>>54943948
She shoulda given everyone a promotion.
If Starfleet is anything like the USN she would still be able to boss around Captain Chakotay because she has seniority.

>>54943971
>>54944013
There's also Star Trek Panic...

>>54944050
he should have been a captain to begin with considering janeway fucked his ship up and pretty much forced his crew into subservience

also why was Tuvok not a commander to begin with? He's pretty much the actual first officer, he has the same duties as Yar or Worf but on voyager it seems like he runs the place

>>54943948
Even with the bad writing there's a bunch of consistent underlying traits that Janeway had that I don't feel get noticed enough:

She's clearly Captain Mom, not just cos she's a she, but to contrast with Kirk's no-fucks-given unless it's Spock or McCoy style, Picard's deliberate distancing from the crew and Sisko's well he's a little harder to sum up but the guy is more of just a straight up Boss, but a boss that wants to be approachable.

Janeway though, she reads trash romance fiction, she care's for her crew in a way that at times is more than a touch rabid soccer mom (and a little too willingly going head first to start shooting if it's to save her crew). And despite that, she's only really friends with Tuvok. And she's got the whole Science! thing going on following her blue-shirt history, though that's more a season 1&2 thing, but it picks up occasionally with Seven of Nine.

>>54944013
thanks i'll check it out
>>54944060
Ill look it up, is it fun?

>>54944184
I don't know. I just know that the only four worthwhile ST board games seem to be Ascendancy, Frontiers, Fleet Captains, and Panic.

>>54944169
very true, her scientist side is much more realistic than Picard's wanna-be archaeologist and a bit more deep than Sisko's hard dick for baseball

Voyager also did holodeck stories better, I got so sick of Data's sherlock holmes bullshit but on voyager they sit around doing nothing all day so it make sense. I like the Captain proton segments and Neelix's island bar

>>54944159
>also why was Tuvok not a commander to begin with? He's pretty much the actual first officer, he has the same duties as Yar or Worf but on voyager it seems like he runs the place
He should really have been commander, true. I think Tuvok was de facto number one, Chakotay only filled had that title so the Maquis didn't catch on that they were basically impressed.

>>54934388
No that's not Attack Wing, that's something else. Attack Wing is a CMG. You're thinking of the die cast collection, in which case watching Voyager has addled your mind.

>>54945292
Yeah, they're the die-cast collection. And I misremembered, you get the E-D for free for subscribing and I had a promo code for a $5 BoP so that's what I got, and I just got off the phone cancelling my sub after a half hour on hold.

>>54944232
I liked killneelix.exe

>>54944213
I like Five Year Mission. It's simple, but it really puts you in the mood to disregard the Prime Directive.

>>54946815

>white washing Bashir

for what reason

>>54946942

(I'm not the person you're responding to)

I'm not sure if it is more or less racist of me, but I still see Bashir as white even knowing that he had Indian parents.

It's like my racist family members throwing a shit fit because my sister married a Greek guy but he just looks white to me.

Maybe i'm color blind unless it is really fucking obvious, I dunno.

>>54946942
Lmao it looks just like him you cuck

>>54946942
>>54948074
Both Bashir and his actor are half English half Arab, though on opposite sides.

UNIFORM CHOICES, RANKED

God Tier: The uniforms introduced in First Contact and worn in the latter half of DS9 - they look like serious uniforms but still have the classic Star Trek feel, including the specialization colors

Good Tier: The uniforms worn in mid-late TNG, all of Voyager, and early DS9(grouped together as they're just a color swap), AND the uniforms worn from Wrath of Khan through to Undiscovered country. They looked like actual naval uniforms and are easy to take seriously and have become as iconic as the TOS uniforms - they would be God Tier if not for the lack of division colors.

Okay Tier: The TOS uniforms - the measure that all others are compared to. Iconic but also a little silly with their overly bright color palette.

Bad tier: The uniforms worn in season 1 and 2 of TNG. They look too much like pajamas, being one-piece with that seam down the front. ALSO the Enterprise uniforms, which abandoned the Star Trek look altogether and just went with NASA jumpsuits.ALSO the uniforms from JJTrek, which managed to look like the TOS uniforms while blending with the JJTrek aesthetic and looking good on the big screen, but making the women sleeveless without moving the rank insignia means none of the women are wearing any insignia at all.

Shit tier: The uniforms from Discovery. All the problems of Enterprises, still no division colors, and the entire left side is covered in little metal starfleet deltas for no reason

Oh Shit Son What Are You Doing tier: The uniforms from The Motion Picture. What the fuck.

>>54948944
>uniforms worn from Wrath of Khan through to Undiscovered country
>lack of division colors
Are you blind?

>Bad tier
>Enterprise uniforms
Are you stupid?

>>54948944
I'd move the Enterprise flightsuits (and especially the copper-tone EV suits) up to God tier. Keep the MACO fatigues at bad tier though, the camo just looked cheap as hell.

Also, the Star Trek: Beyond uniforms should be Good Tier at least, they really nailed the look third time around.

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>>54948944
TOS movie uniforms had division colors on the undershirt, most visible in the collar, as well as the fastener and left cuff of the main jacket, which means they actually show off the division color more than the TNG movie/late DS9 uniforms. They also had far and away the most number of division colors, much more than the normal 3.

>>54948944
The WoK uniforms most certainly have division colors, they're just muted and not the same as TOS. That's perfectly fine, ESPECIALLY that Command track white, which just makes the entire uniform pop, and the division piping on the pants.

The Enterprise uniforms were actually not a bad idea, and worked. It's an Earth that hasn't quite figured out whether Starfleet is a military or a civilian agency yet. If the shoulders had been a solid division color, they'd have been A+.

>>54949110
I think a nice royal blue would have been better for Medical than that mint, and maybe a stronger yellow than the mustard for engineering, but overall that whole set of uniforms was gorgeous.

>>54949125
They were probably just cautious about wanting the division colors to not clash with the main jacket, hence why everything (except the trainee officer red) is muted.

>>54917886
>reminds me of the good old USSR

The Federation is in no way a hippie commune of love and acceptance, and your comparison is very apt.

They're benevolent socialists across all series with behavior no different than what we see today.

>>54949401
Given the black market Nog was running in that one episode of DS9 I have to wonder how many critical shortages there were in the people's republic of spandex pajamas. We know they still used slave labor or something very close to it to mine dilithium given how fast the EMH-1s were shoehorned into that role.

>>54948944
The ENT uniforms were amazing, they look like astronaut jumpsuits with slight nods towards what they'd eventually be, one of the few opportunities not wasted by that series.

>>54949694
Also, POCKETS. They win best uniform for that alone.

>>54949716
didn't the combat uniforms you see on DS9 have pockets too?

>>54952767

Cadet uniforms had them as well

>>54952767
Aye. Plus there's the jacket the Be'lanna had for all her gubs in.

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>>54930534
I for the fucking life of me do not get why Trek fans are saying "Ha! I'll be watching the Orville!" as though it's the more palatable option.

If watching Discovery is akin to being served a plate of steaming shit, I'm not going to say "actually waiter, can you get me the plate of cold shit that is the Orville?"

Seth McFarlane isn't very funny. Ted wasn't good. Family Guy was middling to bad. A Million Ways to Die in the West was terrible. The Cleaveland Show is bad. American Dad is ok, but that's probably more to do with the writing staff on there having some of the people from Futurama

The Orville doesn't even look good, but I guess autists need to show Paramount somehow! It's pathetic. I don't think Discovery looks particularly good, either mind, I just don't get why fans are going full console wars protest on this like you have to pick one and not the other.

>>54952878
That was a one off to hide her pregnancy.

>>54953492
>I don't like thing.
>Therefore nobody can like thing.

>>54953556
That's not what I said though. I said it seems fucking stupid to me for people to latch onto the Orville with both hands because paramount triggered their autism.

Take a look on the Facebook posts for Star Trek. People are talking about the show like it's a protest vote, and it's dumb because, as I said, MacFarlane's stuff is by and large not funny. People seem pre-willing to pretend to themselves from the off that the Orville is going to be great, regardless of quality because at least it's not Discovery.

>>54953492
Not everyone shares that opinion of MacFarlane (I partly do, only enjoying a few things he's done), and a lot of the talk about it is more along the lines of enjoying that someone is actually trying to make something like the star trek they want.

So I suspect you may be projecting a little to hard from that one perspective. If you assume most people are indifferent/mildly favourable to MacFarlane (which given the amount of stuff he's produced and continues to produce that makes money, isn't unreasonable), it's pretty understandable that they're gonna look to the thing that's the polar opposite of Discovery.

It's also got a lot of old star trek names attached for confidence boosting purporses. Sure one of the big ones is Braga, but I've said before, that guy's plots if taken for comedy purposes are a hell of a lot more palatable (and he's ok at character work). So there's at least some reason to hope that we're gonna get one of the better MacFarlane shows.

I don't expect it to last more than two seasons at most, but compared to steaming shit, it's more of a banana. Just a banana. No sprinkles or icecream, but it's edible. Some people might want it to be a bit browner first, or just don't like bananas at all, but there it is anyway. Covering why people treat it like console wars, well that could take a paper or three to cover...

Are the relaunch novels any good?

>>54953759
Depends on the author

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Any custom ship requests?

Was going for a pre-galaxy dreadnought with this one. Ambassador Era tech borrowing elements from the Sovereign.

>>54953923
Do an Akira with the secondary hull slid back so it doesn't look like a pregnant Miranda, and maybe more modern parts.

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>>54953999
It'll take me awhile since I don't have Akira parts made up yet.

Were you thinking more like this? Or lengthen the seconday/torpedo hull?

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>>54954076
>>54953999
Or maybe more like this?

>>54954174
Second one but with some connective tissue.

>>54954193
Well it would make for a good carrier. Or a better one with the extra hull space.

I'll probably post it tonight.

>>54953923
Any possibility for a WoK era patrol ship?

>>54953923
NX-class with an entirely TOS aesthetic, then a variant with the secondary hull stapled on like they were going to do for season 5.

>>54953923
D'deridex with a slimmer head and only the upper wing+nacelles (like a heavy Valdore, bu a bit bulkier)

>>54953923
Reminds me of https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/5477a008-75d5-48b4-b0e5-31522b06c138/USS-Titan
>>54956635
Something like https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/5954d42e99e57069d5e9633932d35ae8/N12-Starship-Program-AACHEN-CLASS but white?

>>54957570
I was thinking something like an NX except kitbashed from TOS-era parts.

>>54935743
Do it. Its basically fanfiction tier writing but it still feels more like Star Trek than the reboot timeline ever has.

>>54949620
wait what? they used emh for labor?

>>54953492
i agree. neither of them look very good

>>54958978
It's a weird end from the end of Voyager where the writers were clearly trying to make some sort of point but failed to see if it actually fit what was going on/the setting as a whole, or just made any sense.

Protip: It didn't.

>>54953492

I'm indifferent to the Orville, but may give it a watching since I like American Dad!.

But STD is obviously DOA. Let Trek die and enter the public domain. It had its run.

>>54958978

Yes, in a nonsensical twist, the EMH Mk. Is are consigned to slave labor despite being obviously sapient. Something they didn't force on the ExoComps, despite less evidence of sapience.

Despite the fact that generally, the UFP are the good guys, sometimes it's really hard to swallow dumb shit like this that says otherwise.

>>54957756
I think the major thing about Voyager was that they did most of the episodes in the house, I think one of lead writers forbade usage of outside scripts. during TNG they had used alot of scripts sent to them by other writers and though the quality of those went from Measure of Man good to utter garbage I would argue that in general those scripts where good because they where written by people passionate about Star Trek. While as Voyager scripts where mostly done writing team and it seems they where treating as just another job of writing.
So the scrips for Voyager tend to miss a certain spark TNG or DS9 had.

>>54959156
My only explanation is they were trying for some easy visual shorthand, got carried away with the effect of having loads of Robert Picardos on screen at once, and didn't bother to care about if it made any sense.

>>54953492
>American Dad is ok, but that's probably more to do with the writing staff on there having some of the people from Futurama
That's odd because it got a lot better around season 3 when a bunch of writers and shit left to do Don't Trust the B in Apartment 23. And early FG was pretty watcheable desu.

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>>54954480
>WoK era patrol ship?
Two that immediately spring to mind are the Akula class and the Okinawa class from Klingon Academy.
I've actually been trying to make the Okinawa without realising it.

>watching "favorite son"
>harry kim routes weapons to ops and fires on a non aggressive ship
>janeway sends him to sick bay instead of the brig
Favorite fucking Son.

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>>54962506
Fucking Harry Kim episodes.
also the fucking of Harry Kim episode coincidentally

>>54963126
That glow-in-the-dong female lead was great. Pity it was a one off. I'd love to have seen a shotgun wedding and Janeway scowling at him for the rest of the series.

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>>54963126

>get on ferryboat home
>it's a repurposed high speed research vessel
>deebly_goncerned.lcars
At least it's not named Miranda, Reliant, Raven, or Kobayayashi Maru.

>>54953923
Is there a site with all of these parts to make your own ship or do you just have them? If you just have them any chance you could compile them and post them here?

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>>54953999
>>54954193
I was considering doing a top down view, then realized you wouldn't be able to see anything. Had enough similar problems just with the Nacelles.

>>54963958
Nice.

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In looking over the Akira specs I've noticed that most of the available MSD's either have a carrier bay right through the ship, or bays separated to make room for the warp core.

This shuttle bay model was interesting, but the only place the warp core could be are those 2 cylindrical bits in the center island. They'd be about the size of Voyager's warp core.
Not sure if that's a good idea or a bad idea.

>>54964378
Putting it in the middle just seems like a bad idea. I figured it's probably just not a tall core but a short one and packed in the hull under the carrier bay, somewhere behind the main deflector dish. Most of what matters is the reaction chamber and the plasma conduits anyway, with the big glowy bits just feeding in deuterium and antimatter from their respective storage areas.

On the model there those are probably turbolift tubes.

>>54964508
Why not make it a tall core and put it in sideways.

>>54964532
Or put the shuttlebay in sideways.

>>54964538
Because the point was to have a fly through shuttlebay while keeping the ship's shields up, even if the idea isn't a great one. Assuming Federation shields have dorsal, ventral, port, starboard, fore and aft sections, you could even keep the ship's dorsal section in between incoming fire and just open the ventral shield envelope to let fighters and the like fly through.

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>>54956635
This is sticking as close to the shape of the NX-01 as possible, otherwise I would have made a ton of design changes.

>then a variant with the secondary hull stapled on like they were going to do for season 5.
Pretty much what I had in mind.
I saw a really nice Daedalus somewhere that a modeller had made a few changes to making it look much better. Thinking about swapping parts from that.

>>54964925
That's a pretty ship. I like it a lot.

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>>54964925
That looks like a Ranger-class with a Gemini deflector.

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>>54965295
Can't say I find that roll bar appealing.

Really liked this design proposal, except for the deflector doesn't look that great where it is.

>>54965355
Take off the hull under the saucer and the rollbar is fine.

>>54928529
...I mean, I want to be excited, because "yay Star Trek," but at this point all the lens flares and edgy vibes just make me want to rewatch TNG again and quietly long for a Trek series (that will never happen) that actually moves the timeline forward.

>>54965756
TV writers are too incompetent to write a full series of post-VOY tech levels.

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>>54948944
>TOS uniforms.

Were so bright because color TV had pretty much just been introduced, and they wanted to show off the technology.

>TMP uniforms.

It was 1979, anon. I'm not sure I can explain it to you.

>>54917416
I think it's a Shakespeare thing. Most sci-fi writers are formally educated in english lit, but not actually good enough to break out on their own as novelists or screenplay writers (hence why they end up in television).

>>54966541
>It was 1979, anon. I'm not sure I can explain it to you.
Easy - Roddenberry

>>54949110
>Sulu in the back like: "that's my fetish"

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>>54948944
>God is dead, man reigns in heaven tier
30th Century Pimp coming through

>>54966746
Is there one of those for the Odyssey uniform from STO?

>>54966746
>delta arrowheads on everything before 2270
Plebbiest of pleb.

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>be me
>marry qt3.14 ocampa after year in hell kills my meanie sweetie
>at random times she loses all her memory and starts babbling about chroniton radiation and a bio-temporal chamber before shivering and going back to normal
>mfw
Thank God I only need to put up with her shit for a couple more years.

>>54959156
Aren't EMH Mk just the illusion of sentience?
And they, seemingly, don't have "a will", just programmed to act human/relatable and follow orders.

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Found this on DeviantArt. It's actually pretty decent looking being just a much smaller Nebula (11 decks instead of the 30-some-odd)).

>>54968118

Flat nacelle pylons like on Voyager will always bug me. They should be at an angle from the engineering hull, not directly adjacent.

>>54968118
Look at the Springfield Class. It sort of fits that niche too.

>>54968037
Normal ones are. Ones that are allowed to leave their program running for highly extended periods of time can develop into an actual intelligence.

But yeah, they're just programs. Hell it's probable that none of those ones seen in that retarded mine scene will ever develop into a sapient creature because they're not attached to a big enough computer system to let the program expand.

>>54968118
I prefer my Nebbies full-sized, thank you.

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>>54968118
>repost from last thread
I would use a Galaxy saucer with bigger windows+no hangar (looks half the size of the big D) and no secondary hull-otherwise it just looks slightly more compact without being smaller/less volume

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>>54972477
>>54972477
>>54972477