Warhammer 40k general

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I might be posting a batrep in a couple of days. Any guidelines I should follow for image size / post count / etc?

pic related is the template I made and am considering using.

>>54898279
This is a good template

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Anons, the 8e CSM codex has revitalized the hype for 40k for me.

Look at this! It's nothing like the bland 2d MS-paint templates most 7e codices had!

link the new thread in the old one, dummy

Whats going up for preorder this weekend?

>>54900075
the preorders

>>54898279
Could you post the blank template and the icons?

>>54899903
I've only gone through the space marine codex so far but I quite liked it. Looking forward to the ork and dark eldar ones

>>54898279
>>54898279
>5 gorkanauts

Why would you play against this waacfag

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Space Marines are boring

>>54900230
space marines are cool

Eldar and Tau are boring

>>54900121

Turn 1 charge is good, turn 2 is also okay if you hug cover and avoid LOS.

Keep in mind that the good heavy support in the army has a ~8" move and will take it to get an angle. At the very least, forcing Kastelans to move will trigger the heavy penalty.

Also, horms and terms will battle with the army wide 4+, even if the troops are t3. Don't rely on that damage alone.

Speaking of troops, mind vanguard. Assault 3 cansur guns won't fuck around. I've deleted units of genestealers with mine in one go.

>>54900230

Agree

>>54899903
It's great. If only we had new models to go with it.

>>54900238
chaos space marines are cool

space marines, eldar and tau are boring

Ork Codex soon please. I need to see if theyve actually fixed my faction

>>54900255
Codex compliant marines are boring

weird themed marines are cool.

Except space wolves

>>54900269
Aeronautica Imperialis is cool
all other factions suck

>>54900258
What's wrong with orks

Chaos Zoats are cool all other factions suck

>>54900258
Elves after the other chaos marine codices.

>>54900300
Right now my only real gripe is dropping 25points for a klaw statistically identical to a 12point powerfist. I'd like it if power stabbas were more available throughout the army as well.

>>54900188
I bet that tryhard even has Nobs in those 'Naughts.

>>54900394
>Right now my only real gripe is dropping 25points for a klaw statistically identical to a 12point powerfist
I'm sure that will drop with the codex if not before, if that's the biggest problem then orks are in a good place

>>54900394
I'm betting the argument is that the Klaws end up on models that have 3 or 4 attacks where the Fists end up on models with 2 attacks.

Power Stabbas were also thrown in as basically a pity-fuck since there's that harpoon looking bit in the nob boxes.

There should also be rules for buzz-choppas, but there won't be.

>>54900432
It's mainly because I know that the codex will give me the stuff I want, klan rules, stratagems and relics. The core ork rules are all pretty fantastic, albeit lacking very important options like red paint jobs, but that's the same for all armies so there's no point complaining about it specifically.

>>54900436
For sure, the lack of melee options for orks is pretty disgraceful, power axes, power swords and buzz choppas could all be given rules without any need to update kits.

Also got to give warbosses access to killsaws, right now the only plastic warboss being sold has illegal equipment.

>>54900634
>right now the only plastic warboss being sold has illegal equipment
That's not a killsaw, it's a unique Power Klaw. In 7th it was a PK with shred.

>>54898241
Seriously, when did this general stop linking previous threads??

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>>54900722
Since every thread ends up being a gaggle of shitposters negating all value.

Don't live in the past.

>>54900722
This -> >>54900852
No reaosn to make it easy so the shitposters, and regular posters that can't mount the effort to put 40k in a search-box are no better.

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Should I pick Night Lords or Iron Warriors?

I love them both in every aspect and wish I could get both but I only have so much dosh my dudes. I'm hoping to make an army that can be used in normal 40k and in Zone Mortalis games.

>>54901044

NL for looks, IW for everything else, including diversity, easier to paint and look good scheme, more complete collection, more flexible army, more viable tactics, etc.

But if you really want a thematic force and can paint lightning, then go NL. You'll be limited to melee shit and bat ears everywhere though.

>>54900230
>things I don't interesting are boring

No shit. Do you really think marinefags would play marines if they actually found xenos more interesting? I guess the bandwagoning WAACfags don't count.

>>54901044
NL raptors, warp talons, jump lords, and maybe bikers. IW the heavy weapons and tanks. Chaos looks amazing with a myriad of colors on the table.
>>54901077 has good points as well

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>>54901077
Thanks for the help anon.

>>54901077
>and can paint lighting

For the love of the night, this. I forced myself to gitgud at lighting as a test make sure I actually wanted to play Night Lords because I liked Night Lords. Don't be a shitter.

>>54901089
At least everyone, no matter their faction, can agree that WAACfags are fucking cancer and bandwagoning WAACfags are terminal.

How do pistols work in melee? If i have a plasma pistol on a model with an attack characteristic of 4, then does that mean that he can fire his plasma pistol 4 times?

>>54901908
during the shooting phase, a model equipped with a pistol may choose to fire it at an enemy model if it is in combat
your pistol has stats and is shot during the shooting phase, not that hard

>>54901919
thanks. that is simple. I guess I still suffer from overcomplication syndrome of 7th ed.

Wondering if i should add some plasma pistols to my two squads of khorne berzerkers.

Marine Flavour Power Rankings
Blood Angels
Black Templars
Grey Knights
Regular Marines
Space Wolves


t. GK player

>>54900282
>t. chair force

>>54901984
>no deathwatch
this list sucks

>>54901044
IW
Hazard stripes looks lit

Alright, so I've seen an interpretation of a rule in my local store that seems quite questionable. When overcharging a plasma gun, if you are shooting at a supersonic flyer, and you roll a 2 on the dice, does your model explode? If you are firing a combi-plasma, and overcharge the plasma gun alongside firing the bolter, does your model explode on a 1, 2, or 3 rolled on the dice?

The interpretation says that since the rule says 'On a hit roll of a 1,' if you modify the hit roll it can modify a naturally rolled 2 or 3 down to an effective 1. But it doesn't make any sense that a plasma gun is more likely to explode because it's shooting at a flyer instead of anything else. Has anyone else encountered this, and is it in fact the correct ruling?

>>54902343
Modifiers are easily the most headache-inducing part of 8th.

>>54902343
That is the correct interpretation of the rules, it doesn't exactly make the most sense but that's how plasmas work.
Be grateful you have the option to just deal 1 damage at strength 7 without overcharging

>>54902343
Didn't you know that Plasma overheats more at night? Basic thermodynamics boyo

>>54902362
Indeed. If your scouts move, they can't inflict mortal wounds. Becuase those 6s get modified down into 5s.

Is there a minimum of effective modifier results? Like in the case of shooting an overcharged combi-plasma at a supersonic flyer, is a natural hit roll of a 1 modified down to a 0, and therefore not a model removed? Firing both modes at the flyer, are 2s now 0s, and 3s alone make your model explode? Or are they all reduced to 1, and therefore your model has a 50/50 chance of exploding in that instance?

>>54902343
Yep, that's how it works. Night fighting also increases gets hot risk. Just wait till you hear about rerolling missed that would have been hits before modifiers

>>54902414
Can't go lower than 1 they've said

>>54902414
This is why -1 to hit rolls is the dumbest mechanic of 8th. -1 to BS or WS is superior in every way and not stupid.

>>54902362
With how the modifiers work it's significantly stupider. It doesn't make any sense that something being hard to hit has a higher chance of blowing up or causing your vehicle a mortal wound. The overheating should only apply to rolls of 1 regardless, same with mortal wounds to yourself. 6s should always count as hitting and should count for Snipers too.

Are any jump marines playeble? Loyal or chaos?

>>54902507
>It doesn't make any sense that something being hard to hit has a higher chance of blowing up or causing your vehicle a mortal wound

>target is hard to hit
>gunner fires more trying to hit it
>more likely to overheat

Do you really think one d6 = one round expended?

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>>54901044
Warpsmiths, Vindis and Oblits got buffed up from useless shit-tier to something good and all daemon engines got cheaper. IW's can use almost anything and it looks good, NL seem more limited

IW's warlord trait and relic is fucking great.
NL's ones are decent, you can certainly make an ultra powerful Chaos Lord with claws, so pick up that old school model with the jump pack, you know the one.

>>54902539
Loyalists are iffy. Chaos can use them for two reasons: 1) Give them 2 Meltaguns and a Combi-Melta to drop'n'pop a tank. 2) Give them an Icon of Wrath and charge something shooty to tie it up. Those are, obviously not mutually exclusive.

>>54902557
But you're not shooting more. You're shooting the same amount you would at any other target, that's why it's stupid. Don't try to excuse it with "fluff" reasons. It's poorly ruled. Negative modifiers to BS would work better, objectively speaking.

>>54902557
Do you think they fire less at a target on the ground? Either way, they are firing at their maximum rate of fire that they can maintain accuracy at. Game balance says if they're firing more shots to hit more reliably, that should change the hit modifier, not just make them more likely to explode. Think before you stupid next time.

>>54902582
>Don't try to excuse it with "fluff" reasons

>what is abstraction in a tabletop game

>>54902593
Durr, mah excuse doesn't make sense at all, but you shouldn't criticize it!

>>54902557
Don't try to justify retarded rule interactions. It just sounds cringey. Yes, in my headcanon plasma vents are hard to spot to people can't find them at night, but I would never give that as an explanation to someone else.

>>54902563
While that conversion looks gorgeous, the amount of cash that must've gone into it makes me weep. Or does the Heldrake kit come with two heads?

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>>54900634
>>54900643
>Zhadsnark da rippa is now equipped with "da pain klaw"
>it's clearly a circular saw
Even if it's counts as, this hurts my autism. Why the fuck did they do this?

>>54902593
It's a bad rule.

>>54902606
>Don't try to justify retarded rule interactions

>i am too autistic to understand a wargame is a highly abstracted series of game mechanics representing real time action

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Got myself a knight to complement my army and I liked this color scheme a lot, which colors should I use to paint the red and bronze parts?

>>54902563
Night Lords raptors look like they pair very well with the forgeworld lascannon weapons that wound based on leadership.

They're laser destroyers with a wounding gimmick basically. You can force dude blobs to run away and shit all over big stuff like knight and land raider weight class enemies.

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>>54902607
Zhadsnark is back??? POST RULES PLS

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>>54902628
The amount of autism in this post is simply staggering.

You're moving space army men around, mate, probably while making pew pew noises.

>>54902628
When your miniature wargame requires more levels of abstraction than computing. Your rules are fucked up

>>54902746
Oh shit son, you're right, I guess all those historical systems that abstract company scale combat down to chits are really shit games only retards would play.

Remember guys, a Marine squad fires precisely one round a man, then stands still once its turn is done. This is how war works.

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Anyone can explain the logic behind PL?
5 Girl squads:
Dominions 5 PL
Seraphim 4 PL
Retribution 6 PL
While stuff like Arco-Flagellants with 3 models and 2 wounds each cost 2 PL and DCA cost 1 but for 2 models and 1 wound each.

>>54898241
So, have we formulated a tier list for the armies in 8e yet? From what I understand, Tyranids, Imperial Guard, and Dark Eldar are the top armies right now. Is that correct?

>>54898279
Were those pictures taken at Legions?

>>54902768
Historical games do not have guns that increase their chance of exploding when shooting during the night.
Don't be a retard

>>54902805
>trying to use damgrous and unstable weaponary is more dangrous in the dark
Yeah, fuck GeeDubs am i right?

>>54902817
Flamers are great at hitting super sonic craft.
Even the the real world example of said techonology show it was utterly a failure.

>>54898241
So my main army these days is AdMech. Just out of curiosity, are there any other armies right now that rely fully on two units, with everything else basically being tax? An Admech army without multiple onagers and kastellans is pretty much not a threat.

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>>54902668
His rules are in IA Index Xenos famalam, as are Buzzgobs

>>54902817
>enemies politely let the other side leave combat
>tank tread can climb lathers
>tank tread can't climb lathers
Nah stop being a retard

>>54902817
>>trying to use dangerous and unstable weaponary is more dangrous in the dark

Ohhh geez, it's dark. I'm scared. What could be out there? Tyranids? Necrons? Night Lords!? Oh geez, I'm so scared, I'm sweating so much. My palms are literally waterfalls of sweat. Oh geez, my sweat is causing my plasma gun heat up...

>>54902817
>What is muscle memory?
Have you ever used a gun in your life?
Shooting a gun in the dark is not harder than shooting it at brought day light

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>>54902837
Ah fuck i never knew that existed, thanks.

He seems pretty nice, crazy movement as expected. what's his cost? i might need to break out my evil sunz again

>>54902856
Exactly, guard are cowards, and scared of everything. No wonder they cant enact the proper weapon fireing pslams on plasma weaponry.

>>54902869
Its not a ballistic gun num nuts, its a fragil bit of high tech kit

>>54902832
>>54902848
>moving the goal posts
ok buddy

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Any idea if the typical SM terminator head will fit onto the new SM primaris bodies? in the same case will the chaos terminator ones fit?

>>54902881
Entrust to cave men.
Literal cave men can handle plasmagun safely.

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I want to start a 1000pts T'au army and already bought a Start Collecting box and Cadre Fireblade month ago.
Now I'm sure I want to buy an Optimised Pathfinder Box but what should I pick to round the list up next - Broadside and a box of Fire Warriors or just another Start Collecting?

Also are Crisis Suits with 3 flamers and Fire Warriors with Cadre Fireblade a good option for such small games? As I said I have been away for a while and didn't follow any FAQ releases etc

>>54902881
>guard
>coward
Ok I'm being trolled

>>54902899
>talking about strange abstraction
>mentioning more strange abstraction is moving the goal post
Are you stupid or just butt hurt?

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>>54902878
As yet I've not done enough comparisons with other stuff to know if this is good, but he's going back on the table anyway

>>54902902
Thats has never been the case. Plasma has always been risky, even to marines. Its jsut now more accuratly modeled on the TT

>>54902912
>need an angry guy with a pistol to stop them wetting themseves and running away
Guardfags: not even once

>>54902925
>talking about plasma guns
>nuh uh, flamer cant melt flying beams
sure thing pal

>>54902936
Literally trolling at this point.

>>54902945
>get BTFO
>cant handle the truth
>have his butt rustled
>" M-m-m-must be a troll"
Really got my noggin joggin, really activated my arlmonds, surly got my gears 'a turning

>>54898241
Are Chapter Champions any good?

>>54902930
Seems great for 110, just keep a painboy near by and bikers screening in front, his only weakness is his save and general defense

Reminder that selecting a unit purely to hold objectives without any other role is retarded.

>>54902936
Even before 8th plasma didn't have a higher chance to explode during the night

IG fights against fucking Demons and space horrors all the time without neeeding a commissar or mind fuckering to remove fear from them

Also we are talking about abstraction and retarded situations like plasmas getting more random at night or flamers hitting flying crap no problem

You are either a retarded or intentionally trolling

>>54902984
How do the FW chapters rate?

>>54902986
This. Fuck Grots

>>54902986
I make sure I give my infantry squads a heavy bolter, a plasma gun and a power maul so they are ready for everything. They then proceed to never do anything. 59 points of letting me down.

>>54902986
>not wanting to win games
How is holding an objective a bad idea?

>>54902968
Is this the return of the musical wounds bullshit bikers?
Or do we need to remove full models instead of sharing wounds in this edition? I've only skim-read the rulebook

>>54903013
He probably just lost a game versus Nurgle and got assblasted when he couldn't kill some Plaguebearers holding the relic

>>54903024
remove full models so not really, but Bikers in general are pretty solid

>>54903024
You have to keep allocating wounds to an already wounded model until it dies.

a dark reaper unit with inescapable accuracy would still hit on 3+ a supersonic flyer?

>>54902878
bikes and transports are awful for orks (except battlewagons)

Walkers and infantry are where we shine, bring them, lots of them, and big mek KFF to cover their asses

>>54903013

>How is holding an objective a bad idea?

It isn't, that's why you put your artillery that won't be moving anyhow on your homefield objectives, then aggressively kill your opponent to secure board control.

Taking a shitty unit like Plaguebearers to squat on an objective all day just because they're sort of okay at not dying is horrendously bad list building and tactics.

>>54903000
>Even before 8th plasma didn't have a higher chance to explode during the night
Yes, and now they have made changes to more accuratly modle the damges of plasma on the TT
>IG fights against fucking Demons and space horrors all the time without neeeding a commissar or mind fuckering to remove fear from them
if its demons they get mind wiped or inducted into the inqusition, and they alway have commiars, evey unit

Please try and know something about the topic before posting.

>>54902791
Logic behind PL is that its a quick shorthand for throwing together lists for pick up games. Its certainly not perfect, but it generally does okay at it; its open to abuse so try not to play with fags. If you can't trust the people you play with or want something more granular points are still there not that they've ever been a perfectly balanced tool either.

>>54900282

Van Saar are cool, everyone else is boring

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>>54903033
>He probably got assblasted when he couldn't kill some Plaguebearers
>>54903059
>Taking a shitty unit like Plaguebearers is horrendously bad list building and tactics.
Nice.

Can someone convert the FW Index: Chaos from epub to pdf? The pdf in the MEGA is low quality as hell.

>>54903065
Trying way to hard.

>>54903059
But if it works reliably is it really a bad idea?

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>>54901116
Are Raptors in general viable on tabletop? I keep hearing that they are shit.

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>>54903033
>>54903059
Fucking pottery

>>54903003
>lamenters
>
>
>
>scorpions
>Raptors
>astral claws
>excorcists
>mantis warriors
>red hunters
>sharks
>star phantoms
>executioners
>marines errant
>novamarines
>
>
>
>Minotaurs

And traditional chapters go
>consecrators
>grey Knights
>dark angels
>Blood Angels
>Deathwatch
>iron Hands
>other SM flavors
>space wolves
t. different GK player

Is there a blank datasheet for 8th edition floating around somewhere (might have even been form-fillable) and I was wondering if anyone had a link to it. I don't mean a roster sheet, I mean one for the unit specifically.

>>54903093

It doesn't work reliably. It kinda works against other people softballing because they don't grasp the opponent can't hold objectives if he's dead.

I've seen dozens of games where an opponent loses because he paid more attention to the Simon says cards than what I'm doing.

>>54903102

Eh, we just used the same example unit because Plaguebearers are a really obvious example of a unit that can't do diddly other than objective camping. I haven't seen anyone actually field those things in person for years.

>>54903115
>lamenters anywhere near the top
>executioners aren't the top
top plebeian

>>54903115
you forgot Howling Griffons

>>54903115
>Lame Ntors
>no Star Krakens

I was Marines Errant weren't so niche. Boarding action specialists are cool shit. Plus that 2++ on their captain is dope.

>>54903219
Wish*

can you stack sanctuary on the same unit?

>>54903260

Yeah it's real good

>>54902414
>>54902422
>>54902486

Would there be other wonky interactions if modifiers came before rerolls?

>>54903260
>can you stack sanctuary

Not in Matched Play as Psychic Focus stops that.

>>54903260
Only in open and narrative play. In matched play rule of one cucks you of that.

>>54903115
Who's the most useful FW dude to ally in anyway? I was looking at the Exorcist Hammerbro since he's just a big smashy source of Deny the Witch. Who else has useful abilities that are not just reroll bubbles?

>>54903295
Honestly if the rulebook stated the difference between RESULTS and ROLLS it could be avoided.

>A ROLL is the result of the die without modifiers.
>Plasma Guns Get Hot on a ROLL of 1

>RESULT are taking modifiers and applying them to the die value
>Guilliman lets all ULTRAMARINES reroll failed To Hit and To Wound RESULTS

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>>54902422

That's the most retarded thing about this whole ruling GW has put up.

I would have like to see a chart such as this

1. Look up the to hit roll needed
2. Roll dice.
3. Apply modifiers (ALL modifiers pro´s and con´s) to the bearers to hit roll
4. Resolve aura effects (such as re-rolls)
5. Final result.

This to me would have worked out great from a gamers perspective instead of the old "well fix it in a FaQ. It would also not render aura ability's completely useless.

>>54903295
Not really. Certain things could give you plus 1 to hit, and minus 1 to hit at the same time. So you just have to add and subtract. That's about it really.

>>54903097
Deep Striking plasma or melta spam seems like it'd be good. I was sorely tempted to build a little list around
>2 units of Raptors x 5 with two plasma guns and two plasma pistols on the Champion
>1 Chaos Lord with Jump Pack (who I'd model and fluff as a Raptor Lord of some sort), also with two plasma pistols

Deep Strike 9" from something you don't like and rapid fire 8 plasma gun shots and 6 plasma pistol shots, supercharged and rerolling ones

Expensive but seems like it'd melt a lot of things and be fun. As they can fly, if they get assaulted (and survive) they can just fall back from combat and open fire all over again. Might be worth taking extra Raptors for ablative bodies with that in mind, but I suppose points would already be prohibitive.

Or use them for Night Lords Leadership dickery. But as a plain jump assault troop they're outclassed by Warp Talons.

>>54903349
Feel like that just slows the game when you have to pause and add/subtract instead of just saying "3's"

>>54903349
When you have to house rule a lot of the rules. It generally means they are bad rules.

At least when comparing it with roleplaying games. You shouldn't need to fix rules with house rules.

>>54902907
x2 start collecting, x2 optimized pathfinder, x1 commander, x1 fireblade , use this as a base and expand based on personal preference. devilfish are for warriors by the way and make sure to go 5 man groups for battalion requirements

>>54902965
Cheap Relic Blade caddie with the same melee oomph as a Captain and with 2+ Armour, basically.

The duelling rules are sort of worthless because it's pretty hard to catch an enemy Character in melee unless the opponent wants them to fight your Champion.
The bodyguard trick is nice, but normal Honour Guard do it better since they're cheaper.

So basically you get a cheaper Captain with better armour and no buff aura or innate invul save.

>>54903397
Simple math is hard

>>54903419
Simple math in your head before rolling is faster than simple math after rolling, at least for me

>>54903059
So if my Plaguebearers serve double-duty as objective campers AND the third Troops choice I need in order to get the Battalion filled up, is it still retarded?

>>54903402
So it's better to have 3 more suits and a blueberry on UFO at start than broadside, yup?

>>54903431
That's exactly why modifiers after rolling is fucking stupid.

>>54903431
To me the entire "to hit" should apply to BS/WS not the roll it self. Hence preventing retard things like super hot night shows

>>54903311
Culln is good but he can't DS, so that sucks.
Issodon is great for infiltrating without blowing CP's, plus charge boosts
Breyarth is a beast in his own right, but does t bring much outside of being unkillable
Blaylock adds a bit of durability to friends, which is nice
Tyberos is the best- kills by himself, force multiplier outside that

>>54903453
That's, um, what he said, bro.

>>54903471
It's called agreeing with someone. Not everything is an argument.

>>54903463
This. I don't understand why firing at RG in the dark gives me a 50% chance of blowing myself up.

I can understand some special abilities that say '-1 to hit rolls', like a tzeentch sorcerer or something, but it should mostly be '-1 BS'.

>>54903453
Literally what I said

>>54903517
And I'm agreeing with you, you fucking idiot.

>>54903463
But if that were the case, then exploding 6s would also be unaffected by modifiers and I like attacks with exploding 6s or gets-hot 1s being more affected by modifiers. No, it doesn't make sense, but I think that makes such effects more tactical. Yes, you should use overcharged plasma sparingly, and you should use it even more sparingly at night. Meanwhile, Tesla works better when an Overlord is telling the Immortals where to point it at and worse when shooting enemies in Venomthrope clouds.

>>54903522
> This. That's exactly why modifiers after rolling is fucking stupid.
> Agreed. That's exactly why modifiers after rolling is fucking stupid.

This is an example of Internet typing etiquette which helps others discern your tone and intention without hearing the pitch in your voice or seeing the body language you are putting out. Please consider these points before submitting a post.

>>54903528
Modfieres are fucking retarded right now.
There should be a clear difference between WS/BS rolls, hit rolls and natural results, but GW half ass the rules so we end in this stupid situation for an entire edition

>>54903550
I wouldn't have to take an extra step if you weren't an idiot. Sorry, next time I'll hold your hand.

>>54903563
Obviously I wasnt the only one confused, everyone assumes a hostile stance on this site for a reason, again consider before posting.

>>54903550
This. It's simple courtesy to adopt a posting style that helps ASD sufferers, who often cannot discern tone from written cues, avoid offence or confusion.

Okay so next week is an AoS release.

Then we have Death Guard, which has largely been leaked...

So what's the next interesting thing after that?

>>54903619
More Marines!

>>54903619
Probably Imperial Guard, there's still a tease of a box of grenades thats unaccounted for.

>>54903619
Deathwatch & Thousand Sons.
>No model release. Just codices

>>54903619
>Interesting
Nothing, more marine stuff. After the one billion release in less than 10 years it got boring fast

I was watching yesterday a match in my local store and there was a guy with a 10 man death company with lots of plasmas and meltas. I'm pretty sure you can only carry pistols and melee weapons on assault and death company in space marine armies. Was that guy cheating or am i missing something?

Not a SM player that is why I'm asking.

>>54903664
Assume every marine player is cheating. It is the safest way to play against them

>>54903125
>
I've seen dozens of games where an opponent loses because he paid more attention to the Simon says cards than what I'm doing
And I've seen dozens where someone won the game because he paid more attention to the Simon says cards than his opponent, a 150 point tax of distraction/objective squatters is good in any list because weather or not the opponent spends time killing them, it's a net gain for me

>>54903682
I find that assuming that every tau, guard and aeldari player is cheating is the best way to play against them.

>>54903038
Correct

>>54903697
>Orks, nids and SoB are the only noble players left
Feels good

>>54903713
>orks
>noble
Choose one

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How are your local groups looking when it comes to numbers of new Death Guard armies?

I wanted to do DG as I'm a new player for 8th edition, the models look great and aren't manlets, the releases schedule will help me build gradually, and finally (and maybe most importantly) I figure every new shitter and many old players will be building primaris forces. The problem is, I don't wanna be tossing more Death Guard into the mix if there's already a flood of them in 40k nowadays.

>>54903464
Whoo.....can I ask, are all these dudes chapters? I don't recognize them easily by name alone. I just know I also like the Exorcist guy because he's an Ogryn sized marine who smashes demons with a hammer.

I finished Black Legion but there is a scene that puzzled me.

The CSM were told of the changes of the Imperium how the Imperium now started to worship the Emperor as a good.

The revelation caused some of them to enter a state of shock. Some of them raged smashing stuff, some of them hysterically laughed, some of them cried tears of blood from the intensity of their emotion, some of them actually doubled down and vomited, and some did all of them at the same time. Also it was raved that the Word Bearers won. They eat dirt and ash in the Eye but they won anyways.

I don't understand any of this. Why did the Emperor being worshipped as a god affect the CSM like this? What do they mean that the Word Bearers won?

>>54903732
Only girls are playing death Guard and Primaris are played by 12 years old. At least locally

>>54903719
>2017
>This Meme
__kys_____

>>54903758
>t. delusional orkfag who probably unironically refers to himself as an "orkbro"

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Are there IW that blame the Imperium for Olympia's destruction even though it was them who destroyed it?

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I'm thinking of adding a Haemonculus and pals to my Kabal, but I'm not sold on the current model. The fifth ed one is neat but hard to find. Do you think a suitably converted and tricked out Acothyst could fit the look?

>>54901089
>>54900230
>>54900238
If the IG was the main Imperial army and space marines were the elites like in the fluff then they'd be interesting.

But the setting is completely oversaturated with marines so it's made super soldier warrior monks boring.

>>54903766
Butt hurt Marinefag

>>54903774
Blaming other people for shit you did is Chaos 101

>>54903766
>t. unpainted Marinefag who cant handle 120 Boyz even with his new codex

>>54902907
bump for more replies

>>54903785
>>54903793
What's wrong, orkniggers? Did I strike a nerve? Go on, scream WAAAAAAAGH out loud like the autists you are.

>>54903778
This! I used to play marines, but after decades of my army getting constant updates and new shit while my opponent got nothing. It got boring fast

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on a scale of 1-10 how much do you love ducnan?

>>54903804
>t. assblasted taudar player who cant handle losing

>>54903804
I play Inquisition and SoB.
People want to face me. There is something different than facing the same army in a different colour scheme over and over again

>>54903654
Uh-huh. That's why there's four Death Guard kits already leaked, because they definitely will release the codex without models.

>>54903817
>2 thin coats/1 thick one

>>54903697
A guy in my city has never lost a game of 8th with his imperial guard. We all know his list is bullshit, the numbers are clearly wrong, he has too much shit.

We told him that if he wants to play someone he has to give the list in advance so we can verify it. We haven`t heard of him in weeks.

>>54903778
>If the IG was the main Imperial army and space marines were the elites like in the fluff then they'd be interesting.
The thing is people would still want to play purely marine forces because by and large the public finds the elite supersoldiers more interesting than the rank and file grunts.

>>54903829
First I'm a marinefag, now I'm a taudarfag? Make up your mind you fat greasy fuck.
>>54903833
Ah, I see you're into cuckolding. Cool.

>>54903804
Have you tried Bolter Drill?

>>54903817
I prefer ross.

>>54903856
>plays marines
>calls other cucks
Oh BOI!

>>54903856
>im a marinefag
Oh sorry, let me fix that
t. Gravbike/skyhammer/gladius spammer who can't handle the thought of his snowflakes losing to some green retards

>>54903856
>enraged autist lashes out at everything in sight while mad he cant just win with his formations anymore
How many times are they going to rerun this episode?

>>54903849
To be fair, guard are very good this edition and the amount of shit they can field for 2k is ridiculous. There were stores near me that actually imposed a model count limit to make turns quicker and so guardsmen dont patrol around the sun at 1000pts

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>>54903870

>don't enjoy playing the game
>don't know what is balanced or how to play without assistance
>just like painting
>just pick which units looks cool and endlessly mod them with green stuff and third party kits

am i autistic

>>54903870
Its loke comparing God to Jesus

>>54903875
>>54903882
LOL! Orkfags just can't decide which boogeyman to use! Hilarious!
>>54903886
7e is fucking cancer. No thank you.

>>54903893
>>54903893
I like you more everyday Peach anon

>>54903695

>I've seen dozens of games where an opponent loses because he paid more attention to the Simon says cards than what I'm doing

>And I've seen dozens where someone won the game because he paid more attention to the Simon says cards than his opponent

There's an extremely important distinction you missed there.

I said "than what I'm doing". You simply said making better use of the objective cards.

You can pay attention to what your opponent is doing, maintaining overall target priority and board control priorities -And- read your cards at the start of the turn.

If you only obey the cards and are shit at target priority and board control, if you focus on your objective game to the detriment of the actual wargame, then against a halfway competent opponent you'll get outmaneuvered, outkilled and boxed in pretty much every time.

>>54903895
>adhering to rule of cool, even when you don't play
Nah, you good

>>54903907
Not even orkfags. Even marinefags are tired of retards like you.

t. Marine player since RT time

>>54903907
>>54903907
>7th edition is cancer! But so is 8th!
Why dont you just sell your army already

>>54903895
>am i autistic
Only if you don't show us what you're working on

>>54903895

You could be! Has nothing to do with the painting though.

>>54903923
Get a load of this, it's a fucking orkfag writing the words "MARINE PLAYER" on a plastic mask and wearing it! Fucking kek
>>54903926
Um sweetie, stop putting words in my mouth anytime. If you were as good at losing weight as you are at this then you probably wouldn't be a virgin anymore.

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New Deathwatch codex when? Primaris flyer when?

I want Primaris Deathwatch (pic-related, not my model), and the Repulsor is too slow.

>>54903619

Gimme my Tau codex. I want to build a buffmander again.

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>>54903895
So long as you're having fun you're doing it right my man

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>>54902907
The flamers are really good against light infantry, but they basically turn your suits into expensive kamikaze units.
Fusion blasters are worth it too. They almost always make their points back if you priortize targets.
The basic crisis suit philosophy (backed by math) is that you either want all of your attacks to hit (flamers) or you want the few attacks that do hit to shred their target (fusion).
All of the other weapon choices are too expensive and have tough times with armor and multiwounds, and that doesn't pair well with your suits which only hit half of the time anyways.
Broadsides are cool but compete with hammerheads, which are more accurate and higher strength.
Get more firewarriors do your fireblade can buff more troops. Remember, they get to rapid fire twice because of him. 4 attacks per firewarrior!

>>54903955
See this is why everyone ends disliking marine players. Do us a favour and stop playing and commenting the game for ever

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Asked this last thread, is there a common store that sells Plasticard? Gotta make my Throne Howdah

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>>54903975
Deathwatch is a meme codex just like GSC

>>54903993
LOL, orkfag STILL resorting to his boogeymen to "win" the argument. Your salt fuels my laughterz

>>54903442
Yah. Broadsides are cool but until they get a buff of some sort you should only use them in casual games. Plus, it's like 50 dollars for the model. You get way more out of the SC box.

>>54903983
>This many acronyms
My head hurts

>>54903854

It would be cool if there were specific rules about having a combined imperium force. I don't play imperium so maybe you can already do that and I just don't know about.

Something like a bunch of conscripts, some guardsman and like 3 squads of tac marines tearing shit up.

>>54904024
>It would be cool if there were specific rules about having a combined imperium force. I don't play imperium so maybe you can already do that and I just don't know about.
>Something like a bunch of conscripts, some guardsman and like 3 squads of tac marines tearing shit up.
You can in this edition no problem, though if you don't juggle your detachments right it can cause you to lose out on Chapter Tactics and the like. If I expand my Marines I'll probably do so with a couple of Imperial Auxiliaries like motherfucking Eversors

>>54903975
Hopefully not this year. We've had enough space marine bullshit already.

>>54904007
I play Ultramarines.
Fucking kys already

>>54903817
>Blush from the makeup department
>Nothing to hide his dark circles

Further evidence of GW incompetence.

>>54902907

Another start collecting is a good idea. Just need to start filling out your force. At 1000 points you're going to start seeing light vehicles. You might want to think about some missile pods or fusion blasters instead.

>>54904050
Still wearing that autistic plastic mask? Orkfags truly are living in another world.

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>>54903870
>>54903842
>>54904056
blasphemy

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>>54904088
Dude looks like he's been huffing paint. Then again considering his job maybe he has.

>>54904039

Fuck thats cool. I might need to do this myself...

>>54904079
Still assblasted that even marinefags hate your kind?

>>54903774
>>54903792

Even loyalists do it. Iron Hands in 8th ed lore absolutely detest the Raven Guard and Salamanders chapters because they believe that they let Ferrus Manus die.

Do I kit out my Tzaangors with blades for the - 1 AP or pistols for the shooting phase? Or should I have run cultists.

>>54904120
Fucking hilarious, how your best retort is "FELLOW MARINEFAG HERE". And the best part is, you don't even know if I'm a marine player at all. LOL.

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guilliman nerf when?

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>>54898241
Show me your guardsmen! I'm in the mood for IG.

>>54904142
who else but a marinefag would defend them?

>>54904140
yes

>>54904142
Only a marine player would be butthurt about this.

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>>54903908
Won't be Peach much longer, bro

>>54904158
Defend what? I haven't defended marineybabies at all. You got so lost in me shitting on you orkchildren that you actually thought I started defending marinebabies. LOL
>>54904168
LMAO, if you say so orkyboy.

>>54904008
>>54903983
>>54904060
I thought about this list. Should I drop the support turrent for the third FW team? 20 more points for drones would be handy I think

T'au Empire [56 PL, 998pts]

HQ
Cadre Fireblade [3 PL, 58pts]: Markerlight, MV1 Gun Drone, MV4 Shield Drone

Ethereal [4 PL, 66pts]: Honour blade, Hover Drone, MV1 Gun Drone, MV4 Shield Drone

Troops
Strike Team [4 PL, 79pts]: DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ SMS, MV1 Gun Drone, MV36 Guardian Drone
- Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
- 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [4 PL, 79pts]: DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ SMS, MV1 Gun Drone, MV36 Guardian Drone
- Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
- 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [4 PL, 71pts]: DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ SMS, MV1 Gun Drone
- Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
- 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Elites
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [11 PL, 207pts]
- Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Flamer
- Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Flamer
- Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Flamer

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [11 PL, 207pts]
- Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Flamer
- Crisis Shas'ui: 3x Flamer
- Crisis Shas'vre: 3x Flamer

Fast Attack
Pathfinder Team [8 PL, 104pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone
- 9x Pathfinder: 9x Markerlight
- Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol

Dedicated Transport
TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 127pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon

[56 PL, 998pts]

>>54904019
>TEQ
Terminator Equivalent. Tough 4 with 2+ armor.
>ATS
Advanced Tracking System. -1 AP for all attacks.
>AFB
Airbursting Fragmentation Projector. Weapon choice.
>Reddit
The guy made a python program that simulated 10,000+ dice rolls to create more "real-world" data rather than just relying on dice averages.

>>54904178
>he still thinks I play Orks

>>54904171
Nice, looking good man!

>>54904192
Just the Tau ones confuse me, and why havent we been using simple programming to simulate dice rolls.... are we actually the autists and not the reddits???

>>54904215
LMAO, you're fooling no one orknigger. Go back to bitching about how awesome you are for intentionally playing a shitty army.

>>54904233
Chinaman returns?

>>54903836
DEATHWATCH not Death Guard

Deathwatch are the tacticool Xenohunters.

DEATH GUARD are the rotting sons of Morty in service to Nurgle.

>>54904245
Chinaman is an autistic marinebaby lol. Why are orkniggers so reliant on boogeymen to "win" arguments?

>>54904246
>Marines
>tacticool
Inquisitorial Storm Troopers are the only tacticool imperial faction. So tacticool that one has seen them since 4th

>>54904259
Yep definitely one of our assblasted autistic

>>54904266
You forgot Raptors

>>54904277
LOL, orkkiddy so shitter shattered that he didn't even finish his sentence. SAD.

>>54904280
Marines immediately remove the cool part of tacticool

>>54904186
Looks great!
I haven't had a lot of luck with the turrets personally (5+ BS will fuck you without fail), so trimming points to cram in the extra five Firewarriors you'll have leftover from the SC boxes may help you capitalize on the Fireblade buff, (unless you're proxying some of the Pathfinders with your FW surplus).
All pulse weapons work off of the Fireblade, so your gun drones get the extra shots as well.
With as many Pathfinders as you're running you could consider taking weapons on the crisis suits that benefit from the level 1 and 2 markerlight buffs. You have decent anti-light infantry attacks with the FWs and Devilfish, so the the suits should try to fulfill a different role.
You could also take Seeker missiles on the Devilfish. Mortal wounds come in handy against big vehicles and monsters.

>>54904310
Mostly due to oversaturation

>>54904186

My 2c is:

Aim for reroll 1s with the markerlights so cut out the markerlights on the shas'uis. The fireblade and the pathfinder team will do a great job getting you just enough markerlights.

Split the pathfinders in 2 teams of 5 so you can deploy them on different flanks and have markerlight coverage across the board.

I would cut drones and turrets on the strike teams and use the points to bubble wrap the crisis suits in drones. Take saves on the suits from 1 damage or low AP weapons and palm off lascannon wounds to the drones.

Triple flamer spam is hilarious against infantry heavy armies, but Tau are great smashing infantry anyway. I'd consider using them to fill a different role, which is why I brought up missile pods and fusion blasters.

Honestly, it's a fine list for an early cut. I think you would learn a lot by playing it as is and going from there.

>>54904186
This >>54904343
Maximum shield drones for your suit teams no matter what.

>>54904309
Still assblasted how sad.

>>54904378
LOL, the orknigger just keeps going! He's on his march to have the last say because he has nothing better to do with his life! Hilarious!

>>54904343
>>54904364
So shield drones are usable again? When I was lurking some time ago anons said they are shit in this edition

How the fuck do you deal with 2 units of dark reapers?

They fucking take my storm raven in 1 turn before I can even do shit.

>>54904423
>>54904378
>no u
>no u
both of you please just fuck off

>>54904439
The errata'd them to have FnP

>>54904462
I already did. He still trigger by some phantom Ork

>>54904474
Wot Oomies Boss? Is Dey Ere?

>>54903682
For me it's AdMech. I've never seen an AdMech player that wasn't cheating.

>>54904151

He is a primarch, a demigod... Although he shouldn't be allowed in games under 2500 points imo

>>54904439

It's worth checking the FAQ for how saviour protocols work. Personally I prefer gun drones just because they vomit out shots on overwatch, but I think shield drones are the better option.

>>54904455

Just don't play vs aeldari or ynnari or any other "-i's"

>>54904474
>some phantom Ork
I'm gonna make them give back our WAAAGH!

>>54904508
What about Celestine in a SoB only army?

>>54903359
I currently run this and it's excellent. It isn't even that expensive, considering the firepower. 107 for lord, 125 for each raptor group. Champs have dual pistols in mine to save points + rule of cool.

Anyone got any tips on defeating Death Guard?

My Primaris and Tac Marines are struggling against most things except Poxwalkers

>>54904455
Two Stormravens, Teleport Termies blowing them away , Deep striking Assault Marines , Target saturation, ditch the Stormraven and use the points on other things 3 Landspeeders, Drop Pod assault.

>>54904570
heavy bolters

>>54904570
Play SoB, melta spam the shit out of everything

>>54904557
I play Guard with a sprinkling of inquisition and non-Sister ministorum. I always feel a little bad when I bring Celestine, but I think she's so cool. An Imperium demon prince. She just seems so frustrating to fight.

why the fuck is the only plastic warboss available as part of a set instead of just being sold by himself

this is bullshit GW I'm not buying the shitty resin one

>>54900238
people actually believe this

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>>54904186
>Tau "Empire"
Citation needed

>>54904259
>when you have no argument anymore so you repeat the same "lmao boogeyman" fallacy 7 times

>>54904706
>T'au
Citation needed

>>54904631
I know it's confusing but this is 4chan, not GW's facebook page.

>>54898241
Is it bad to wish for Magus return and redemption, taking the role of master of the golden throne, letting the Emperor regen?

>>54904731
It's not like the "Facebook" knows anything

>>54903115
Why do people hate the SW so much anyway?

>>54904603
>spend $2k on another army so you can win and maybe have fun

>>54904763
>furfag
>hate
Gee i wonder

>>54904747
Yes.
Only the Thorian release plan is permitted.

>>54904763
People love star wars, anon.

>>54904763
Lele yiff in hlee furfag exsdee.

>>54904765
No one said it would be easy.

>>54904778
whats that?

>>54904763
Because they are the chadbro chapter whose biggest contribution was beating up the nerd chapter that knew better than their dad.

If Horus is the first primarch then why are the Dark Angels the first legion and not the Lunar Wolves/sons of horus?

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>>54904609
This is why I don't spam conscripts. I KNOW they're overpowered but I'm not going to take something that people don't have fun fighting.

Meanwhile the Tau player at my LGS has no qualms about bringing his commander-spam into games know full well how stupid it is.

>>54904763
I don't HATE them, but I dislike how cheesy they are. I know it's a meme but the whole "Wolf wolfing wolfen" thing is really stupid.

>>54904771
It's a hard thing to balance, taking what you love and what is overpowered. When it's one in the same, what can you really do? I really love Celestine and want to bring her fairly often, but I've only brought her twice and each time she was stupid hard to kill and the opponents groaned the whole time.

>>54904803
fair point

>>54904821
>hating on chadbros
Beta cucks detected

>>54904508
I'm fine with him being super powerful, but he should cost like 600pts. he easily 1v1's knights, and almost doubles the value of any unit around him.

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>>54904763
gee, I wonder.

>>54904823
Horus was the first to be found, the number one was Lion.

>>54904811
Stop sacrificing thousands of psykers every day to keep him nailed to his corpse, set him free to reincarnate (or ascend to godhood)

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How does the tyranid hive mind work in regards to genestealer cults? If you join, would you get to join your consciousness to the hive mind as a kind of background afterlife?

>>54904869
The Primarch regresses back to regular level genestealer intellect when they arrive

And he and all the cultists go into the digestion pools and die

>>54904859
Woudlnt that take a while as well?

>>54904826
How is a T3 model hard to kill? Do you only face marines or something?

Anyone can bring her down in melee or shooting

>>54904880
I mean patriarch not primarch

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>>54904821
It's not so much being alphas, it's more the fact of being alphas while pretending to be honorable and noble when they are anything but that. It would be different if they were alpha as Fuck but actually were direct about it instead of constantly saying things that contradict themselves every two seconds

>>54904869
It doesn't.
One the hive mind gets in range the purestrain genestealers all leave in a hurry, come crunch (or munch) time cultists get no more afterlife than your bacon or the pure humans.

>>54903983
Doesn't the Fireblade give you +1 shot for a total of 3 per model in RF range?

>>54904192
Got a link to the Reddit post?

>>54904869
The might be the standard afterlife lie the cult uses as it partyline. But it's all but stated that once the Hive Fleet arrives, your free will is subsumed to serve the needs of the Hivemind. After conquest you are then nommed and your biomass turned into things far more useful than a stupid hybrid cultist.

>>54904892
Well with her faith she can move 24 inches, so it's basically a surprise charge. Even though she's T3, 2+/4++ saves are still pretty strong against a lot of things. Since I try to be nicer, I don't bring the girls along, but they make her even more durable.

>>54904912
This is what I dislike about them.
>We are the E's savage executioners, bloodthirsty and unrelenting.
>But it's a guise, we are most honorable and restrained of warriors who are noble and proud

You don't get to Nanking an entire planet and then say

Nah man its jokes, we cool. See you on Terra home slice!

>>54904825
But what's the source

>>54904439
They were good, then errata fucked them (instead of taking a wound that they can save with their 4+ inv they just take a mortal wound), then another errata helped them (5+ FnP so they can still save that mortal wound they take for your characters).

>>54904508
Make him OP, fine, whatever, let marine players have their sues, they're the ones that keep GW alive. But cost him appropriately.

>>54904963
How about sucker punching Prospero, and even bringing the Sisters of Silence which is the biggest and sleaziest most unhonorable thing ever

>>54904763
Their 5th edition codex nearly dropped their space Viking theme and went full retard with wolf-wolf-wolf stuff, most of their stuff was renamed to stupid crap like wolf claws, unimaginative and dumb stuff was added including dumb shit like grown ass men riding on giant wolves and Logan grimnar being pulled in a santa sleigh by a team of wolves.

Prior to this codex they were on the same level as any other non-codex compliant original chapter but more popular.

>>54904821
>the nerd chapter that knew better than their dad
magnus please

>>54904773
>>54904791
>>54904853

Honestly I get it's le dank maymay but it doesn't feel like they're as deserving of hate over all the wolf shit as they get. Sure it's overused, but it seems a fairly arbitrary line to draw. Unless my calendar is off a decade or so and hating on furries is still fresh and topical.

>>54904570
Plasma

>>54905002
Magnus sucker punched Propsero desu

File: 20170714_105049-1843x1037.jpg (383KB, 1843x1037px) Image search: [Google]

383KB, 1843x1037px

Calling fellow Nidanons. Really want to buy myself a toxicrene because for some reason i think he is cool as fuck and his rules look awesome. However does it actually play as well as it looks on paper. Also any other anons who have plaued against feel free to enlighten me.

>>54904963
Didn't they change their party line between 30k and 40k because of Prospero and shit?

>>54905029
I heard it's bad

>>54905029
>i think he is cool as fuck
do it yo

the lash whips are a pain in the butt to transport anywhere though

>>54905017
People got mad about it because they used to just be cool space Vikings with very human acting marines. Read the Ragnar Blackmane omnibus. They were fallible but relatable.

This was flipped on its head when wolves became always right all the time super heroes who are obsessed with wolves

>>54905044
Fair enough m8, in what way was it baf though?

>>54904959
Without the girls Celestine dies just as fast as a bloody PE.

>>54905029
Never seen one because both monsters in the kit were trash for 7th, and Carnifexes are the rage in 8th
>>54905037
party line?

>>54905056
So does that mean just her alone isn't OP?

>>54905057
party line
noun
1.
a policy, or the policies collectively, officially adopted by a political party.

How's this for a Your Dudes pitch?

>the remnants of the dudes who sided with Huron during the Badab War who, instead of becoming Red Corsairs went in for the Long War and became Black Legion.

>>54905047
>>54905057

Yeah I heard that i just never played 7th. Havent played since 3rd/4th. Also transporting that model looks like pain but im not botheres by it to much.

>>54905080
Even with her twins she is just a distraction.
She is not a Magnus or girlyman that win games just by existing. She wins games because your opponent is retarded and wastes a lot of power to kill her

>>54905049
That's fair.

>>54905083
Oh,
When I googled it all it brought up was the WA State Department of Licencing downtown

Maybe they did? I dislike the wolves so my knowledge is limited to 'wolf wolf wolfwolfwolf Codex' and 'Burning of Prospero' which just made me disline them more

>>54905050
It has 6 attacks at ws4 -1, and d3 damage. All of it's ranged attacks are super short range. By the time you get into any sort of range it will be wounded and hitting on even worse odds.

For it's price you can get like 2 carnifex that don't degrade with similar attacking stats.

>>54904171
Holy shit, they truly are peach no more. Good work!

>>54900722
For a long time it never linked them. Then someone tried for like a month, and every now and then someone links the previous. It's only necessary when there's major leaks.

>>54905093
>instead of going on to become the bland warband, they decided to join the blandy-bland warband
wow.

Just make your own freaking warband. Also it doesn't make sense when your technically-Renegades are allowed to use Veterans of the Long War but other Renegades aren't allowed to use it because they're too young.

What's the best melee army?

>>54905165
Orks or Nids