/STG/ - Star Trek General

first for Dukat did nothing wrong (except for sparing the Bajorans)

Second for Pah Wraiths being farmed and sold as personality upgrades for overbearing women.

>>54820224

Why do you hate bajorans so much?

>>54820340
What would a Pah Wraith farm even look like?

Reminder that the Nebula is best shipfu.

>>54820392
An Arboretum tended by Keiko O'Brien.

>>54820346
Because they are the worst race in Star Trek and manage to dampen the spirits of the best show in the franchise. However, like Dukat, I wouldn't mind smashing Kira, so there's that going for them.

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>>54820438
>the worst race in Star Trek

I see that you have been so fortunate as to have been spared from seeing the Kazon.

>>54820512

Or the Kobali.

So I was wondering if you fellas would help me with some original species for my campaign. The idea is that those rascally Iconians or however the fuck they're spelled subtly influenced these guys to be unconscious guards/maintenance crew for one of their relics just by existing, which is starting to come off the rails as the federation's able to explore this reach of space thanks to an ion storm receding.

Here's what I've got so far;
Gas Men, encounter suit wearing antagonists who have been raging against the explorers in the reach because the hydrogen scoops everyone uses for fuel is literally using their dead (maybe breeding clouds?) unknowingly. Kind of a classic trek misunderstood antagonist, I was thinking of making them distantly related to the Breen explaining the heavy suit look.

Migratory bovine like species that live in big ships. They have advanced deflector technology that lets them live a fairly pacifistic life, and are able to calculate probability to such an extent that it seems like prophecy. They're fairly fatalistic because of this.

>>54820438
I dig the Bajorans. I think they're very much to humans what humans were to vulcans, a younger race with an energy that could revitalize the stogier parts of the federation.

>>54820529

Ok you have a legitimate point. Damn necrophilia.

>>54820512

However, are the kazon really worse? Also, that image is pure cancer and isn't helping your arguement.

>>54820532
More dudes:
A machine race that's obsessed with 'upgrades' that come from some great automated refinery on their world, with the youngest models worshiped for their innovation and advanced processing ability and older models struggling fiercely to scavenge the parts that'd make them socially relevant again.

Sasquach-like aliens who grow their whole lives, and fossilize as they age. The mountains that dominate their homeland are actually the oldest living members of their species, hibernating for hundreds of years between brief periods of activity. Maybe they even build ships out of some, great living cairns that let them slowly take to the stars.

Energy beings that inhabit electronics and speak in a strange mathematical patois. They're obsessively curious and tend to fuck with visitors because their very nature tends to screw up technology.

I've got a few VERY rough designs left, like a species that projects themselves into space instead of traveling it, but I'm interested in feedback or even just some ideas for naming these guys.

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>>54820562
Kazon were supposed to be a threat but came off like a joke. A bad joke. An old, tired bad joke about Klingons.

And they just kept turning up for two years being just shitty henchmen for a cartoon villain and nothing more.

Not seeing how that image is cancer either, given it's a fairly decent shoop as these things go.

>>54820623
Really, you don't think a shopped sidecut on an unattractive actress isn't cancerous?

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>>54820655
Sidecuts looks fine as fashions go as long as they're not on people who are outright ugly, or just fat. That goes for most fashionable haircuts though. Still, it's better than anything with a big forehead covering fringe or one of those looks that just builds the hair up on top like it's a cake decoration.
And she seems reasonably attractive enough, not fat or oddly shaped or with a big man-jaw or whatever.

So in short: no.

>>54820224
>>54820340
>>54820346
>>54820395
>>54820438
/thread

>>54820555
Mostly I liked that were more fractious than other races we had seen up to that point. Besides the Klingons and, eventually, the Cardassians, we hadn't really explored a society that was neither unified or utopian.

I liked how the civilian government was more or less staving off a military and religious coup for most of the first few seasons. Hell even the religious orders who've basically just had confirmation that their gods are real can't get over their own infighting for long enough to seize authority.

>>54821255

The best thing about Bajor and the Bajorans in general is that their problems can't be solved with a speech and a warp away. They're an ongoing situation with many people who have differing ideas about what the future of Bajor should be, and the Federation is not supposed to interfere with that process beyond taking over the station and providing assistance.

And then Ben Sisko is apparently the Messiah, and no amount of waving the Prime Directive in people's faces is going to make them stop believing it. There's religion, politics, terrorists, etc. It's a very exciting setting.

The biggest misstep is that they don't show the counterpoint to all the zealots and terrorists, which is that the vast majority of Bajorans want to live in peace, worship in peace, and generally just move on with their lives. But we don't see them because it isn't exciting.

As a result, we see the best of the Cardassians in contrast to all the bad things they supposedly did, and the worst of the Bajorans. I don't think that this was on purpose, but just kind of a thing that happened over the course of the series.

>>54821399
This is a good way of putting it, though I'd argue Kira very much is the best of the Bajorans,

>>54821491
Kira had her arc. She started as the worst of bajor and over time learned that things were more complicated than sitting in a cave plotting to kill spoonheads.

>>54821491

I agree, though in Kira's case she's a main character. I probably should elaborate: We don't see very many Bajoran guest characters who represent the best of their people. Arguably, Bareil, maybe the guy who raised Odo. I can't honestly think of many others who aren't zealots, terrorists, or former terrorists of some stripe.

>>54821601
Shakaar is a pretty good one. He goes from a leader of a resistance cell to a quiet farmer to leader of Bajor simply because he's unsatisfied with what the Provisional Government was doing.

>>54821653

True. I'd forgotten about Shakaar. It's still a very short list.

>>54820623
I mean on paper a fleet of feuding space gangsters could be a cool idea. they just needed something they never really got.

>>54820413
So there was a Pah Wraith farm on the Enterprise D? No wonder Troi crashed it into a planet, the ship was literally cursed.

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>>54821399
Looking back at DS9 it's actually quite interesting how little they did with the Emissary thing for half the show.

It wasn't forgotten entirely, but that Sisko went and spoke to their gods was, well that was it for the most part. Only quite late on did he start actually having to deal with visions and stuff.

That we see more of the worst of the Bajorans nails it. We do see some good from outside the main characters but it's not as distinct as when we see something we don't expect to be good, like when Quark occasionally catches a case of being a decent person against his better judgement (and suffers for it in some way usually).
We do see plenty of Bajorans just getting on with stuff, often being characters who are clearly good-guys (like with Ro and Sito Jaxa over on TNG) but when it's Kira it just blends into it being because she's a main character rather than the mascot for her entire planet.

It's all too easy to see Winn as the mascot character for them instead because she's so distinct and memorable.

>>54820532
>Gas Men
GAS MAN!

Nobody will get this.

>>54821898

Nah. Troi crashed the D because she's incompetent. She's always been some form of incompetent, stupid, or useless, they just made it painfully obvious in Generations.

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From the TNG tech manual, where they got the idea to have that sequence in the first place.

Troi didn't crash it. Just didn't manage a best-case landing, given they were punted by the drive section exploding, forcing them out of orbit and into the atmosphere.

>>54821699
Shakaar was very forgettable in general. Despite his position as First Minister, he rarely ever appeared on the show. He spent more time being a vehicle to further drive Odo's growing attraction towards Kira than ever really doing Bajoran government things. Not to mention he was largely bland overall. Bareil was at least introspective and had his dynamic with Wynn. Shakaar never really had a character outside of "Kira's boyfriend".

>>54822607
I forgot Shakaar wasn't Bareil. That's how much of a non-entity he is.

>>54820655
Hey. Hey, anon. You there.

You're getting upset about a hairstyle because you've conflated it with a sociopolitical ideology that you don't like.

>>54822797
Seems pretty fair to me, people are getting upset over moustache styles when they are similar to certain peoples from the past.

>>54822797
Hardly. It's unattractive to have a hairstyle where half your head is shaved while the rest grows long. It has nothing to do with ideologies, it just makes the person wearing it look like an idiot. Hold on to that conclusion though, I hear kneejerk futures are rising.

>>54821927
I admit I don't get it.

>>54822607
Shakaar is in 2 episodes. He's mentioned a bunch over the course of the latter seasons, seeing as he's First Minister. In his 2 episodes all we really learn about him is that he's a charming man and he'd really rather be growing crops on his farm. The problem there is that he's given no goals or end game. He's a passive character as he's essentially dragged into the plot. That'd be fine if he appeared in a dozen more episodes and grew into his role, but as it is he's eminently forgettable.

Whereas Barail has numerous goals that are made clear throughout his appearances. He wants to stop Winn, he wants to become Kai and he wants to establish a proper peace treaty with the Cardassians. Those are tangible objectives that drive his character. And that makes it easier to relate with him in the short term.

>>54823253
Actually, if you think about it, Shakaar is a pretty good example of Bajorans overall. Aside from their priests and military, the Bajorans are pretty goddamn passive. It took 50 years for them to make the Cardassians throw up their hands and go away despite an active resistance movement. And even then, the most proactive members of their military after the provisional government was formed felt their best option was a coup attempt led by Frank Langella and that guy from Wings, rather than work with the Federation until they were back on their feet.

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Say, howsabout a little storytime? My treat!

Here's a fun little offering from Star Trek: The Manga - Volume 1. Yes, really.

>>54824092
We get a Kirk the size of a barn door?
Yes please!

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Re: the sidecut issue... Yeah, they're pretty fugly imo. The only time I've seen one done well was when Vulvatron (formerly of GWAR) was rocking one, and that's only because she actually did something with the big gap where her hair should've been.

But hey, it's a fad and it'll die out soon enough to be replaced with something just as stupid. I just want the pixie cut to make a comeback... is that so much to ask?

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Fun fact: I always wanted to storytime this on /co/ for April Fool's, but a) I never had the time and b) I'm not sure I'd have gotten away with posting a manga, even an OEL manga.

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I even considered storytiming it on /a/,
but I KNOW they'd never let me.

>>54824210
>Her body is a mixture of mechanical implants and organs form nine different species
Aboard U.S.S. Deviantart nobody can hear you scream.

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Another factor keeping me from posting this on /co/ is the fact that this is the only scan of any of Tokyopop's Star Trek manga, and it's kinda ass.

>>54823319
Personally I think the religious crap that was Bajorans major hat for most of early episodes was the reason why people hate them. It' gave them that holier than thou-vibe that is annoying in real life religious people, now imagine that in fictional people you are supposed to like.

>>54824496
And then add Winn Adami to that picture of religious nutjobs bombing schools just because it doesn't conform to their believes and you can start to understand how much viewers don't really like Bajorans outside Kira.

I get the idea they had with Winn as this antagonist and bad guy, but when she is the basically the face of anything relating Bajor in general, and being the smug shit she was, it's no wonder most people stopped caring shit about Bajorans at that point.

>>54824746
Who saw that one coming from a mile away ? It's the genesis of the Borg

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The only reason I posted this was because somebody was asking in the previous thread if there were any TOS era Borg stories
>>54824797
Honestly, when I first read this the twist hit me like a sock in the jaw.

>>54823253
>Shakaar

They were thinking of having Li Nalas fill that role, but they weren't sure if they could convince the actor to come back for future episodes.

>>54824824
Well it's better Origin story than some of the other writers have come up with.

>>54824250
Pretty much my thinking but with more of a dose 'Oh here we go...'

>>54824159
The sidecut is basically a cyberpunk fashion, I mean we're at the right time for it but nobody's got the chrome in place.

>>54822853
kek

>>54824159
>spoiler
mein negro of superlative taste

>>54821927
>Nobody will get this.
A nice cup of steaming cold tea.

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>the ultimate evolution in martial-arts

>>54825962
Truly, man has reached his apex. The battle-q-tip surpasses even the great philosophers for artistic merit.

>>54824705
>bombing schools just because it doesn't conform to their believes
To be fair that part of a larger plot to kill Bareil.

>>54824376
>relativistic time dilation
Has this EVER been referenced in the main canon? It's obvious from the way tech and travel works in Trek that time and space are absolute rather than relative.

>>54826069
The rules of the Alcubierre-White warp drive essentially dismiss relativistic issues by moving space around the ship rather than moving the ship through space. So, in theory (and in setting), there should be no time dilation while using a warp drive.
But then, using the Alcubierre-White model, there should also probably be a cataclysmic release of exotic radiation at the exit point of the warp bubble, so it's all really just whatever suits the story.

>>54826151
I thought the deflector dish deflected the radiation away pretty much as fast as it accumulates and thereby prevents a ship from becoming a planet-smasher.

>>54826259
Well then boom, there you go, problem solved by "science"

Anyone ever design their own ship for a game (or just for fun)? How hard is it?

>>54826305
I don't find it hard, but then I've designed hundreds of ships for different settings.
Unless you mean full designs with deck plans. That shit is a lot of work for full sized starships.

Wish I could find the plans for that Runabout sized yacht I did for a guy's Star War game. Did you want a ship designed? Always interested in making new ships.

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>>54826305
I've been working on one, concepting it is all I've done since I'm shit at actually drawing and stuff. Surprisingly this is very, very similar to what it would like so that's what I've been using to help me with the design and concepting.

>>54826069
It's covered in the TNG tech manual but for the most part, not a big issue except if sustained cruising at impulse.

>>54826305
I just came up with a name that hadn't been used before - USS Busiris.

I thought it was neat.

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>>54826537
I see somebody liked that one. Here's the framework.

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>>54826305
I've been playing about with this design lately. Not for a game though, and it's changed again since this image. Working on learning how to use what tools I have better currently.

I've also got an idea for a very light ultra-fast transport in my head that needs to be put into image form.

Honestly I think the drawing is the hardest part. Fluff and stats is easy.

>>54826151
>>54826259
Well, since the alcubierre drive was formulated a long time after Trek introduced Warp Drive, the latter was originally just meant to be a "normal" method of FTL travel, causality be damned. The deflector (shields) was/were supposed to push away anything that'd fuck up the ship at (supra-)relativistic speeds, and the main dish sweeps stuff out of the ship's path none of which would be needed in an alcubierre drive.

>>54826151
Yep, and also any course corrections or adjustments to the bubble would need to be sent from bridge to engineering faster than c, which complicates things.

>>54826463
What goes into designing a ship, exactly?

>>54826945
Dunno about other people's methods but usually I start out with an idea of a ship that does X thing but not Y things, and from there work out what that means in terms of size, equipment, crew and so on. Then get into the detailing stuff of the actual shapes, maybe a rough internal layout.

The what it doesn't do bit I feel is rather important because ship design is a series of tradeoffs unless you're going all out and making some boring super-ship.

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>>54826945
-make your ship as big as possible
-stick as many nacelles, pods, weapons, and greebles on as you think are cool.
-use only existing ship pieces, but move and distort them around however you want
Most importantly, NEVER EVER think about scale, use, or logic in your design.

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>ywn wrestle a pudgy-faced vulcan qt into submission

>>54826069
The real answer is just don't think about it. There are roughly defined rules for all these things and you can generally assume that if it's not brought up, it's not happening.

>>54827257
Experiencing Bij pretty comprehensively right now, lads

>>54827219
Yeah that works too.

Also the FASA method which is much the same but:

Draw a ship that looks ok from one angle, usually top-down. Everything else? Just fuck that shit right up.

>>54826305
>>54826945
>>54827058
>>54827219
>>54827433
For fuck's sake lads, why did we have to jinx it?
>https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10599254

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>>54826945
I may not be the best person to ask as I often over think things. I tend to come at it from a number of different directions.
Depends on the setting.
>commits sudoku

Usually vying for the top spot for first consideration is form vs function. Balancing "Things to make us go" vs the look. Are there stylistic considerations with who you're building a ship for?

In the case of federation starships -or many trek ships- the function is a big part of the form. You need bigass warp nacelles on there somewhere.
Impulse engines also need to go somewhere that won't be blocked by other parts of the ship. Warp nacelles and pylons can get in the way in that regard. (Enterprise B fails this one hard but you can always say those extra impulse engines are for when the saucer is detached.) Voyager does this right imo by keeping them at the very back.

Deflector. Needs to go on the front, or have line of sight to the front, to keep dust from tearing you to bits at high speeds.

After that engineering for your warp core and related power systems, and finally crew quarters, and non engineering related functions. Things like defenses can be tacked on later since most federation starships are meant for going places first, shooting things second.

Towards that end Star Trek has made shaping ships around these important parts remarkably simple. At least with federation ships.
By moving parts around or changing how they line up vertically, it becomes an easy process. With the basic location of major parts down you can throw in things you want to add. Shuttle bays, etc, what have you.

Even with this simple setup you can already see the basis of a starship taking form.
>cont.

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>>54827634
Here we see that apparently Voyager is a really lazy form of starship design.

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>>54827458
But that's not ship design, that's ship outfitting explicitly for STO.

>>54827634
>not depends on the system

>>54824870
Especially the novels. FUCK YOU, DESTINY, THE CAELIAR WERE TERRIBLE.

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Serious question /tg/. are the Pakleds a success or failure of a civilization? Discuss!

>>54827976
>"serious" question
>bait picture

>>54827976
Pakleds as portrayed in the shows are very clearl and obviously the result of a pre-warp culture being contaminated by interference from a warp-capable culture. They have the tech but have no idea how to use it properly. They're capable enough to muddle around with it so they don't immediately blow themselves up, but once shit fails they're fucked because they have no idea how it really works and how to fix it.

>>54827888
The thing is, the centrepiece of Destiny (m-muh caeliar, m-muh perfection, m-muh borg) was shit, but the stuff that it built on was pretty good.
>Whatever happened to the Columbia?
>Janeway fucking dies
>Literally the entirety of Voyager's crew go emo for various reasons
>Dax Adventures Volume III

>>54827976
Pakleds are a failure of translating the idea of a seemingly dumb but actually just using simplistic language antagonist to screen and combining it with a plot where everyone is an idiot and how they're idiots is repeatedly called out, making it worse.

>>54828111
They were better in DS9 anyways.
>In the background
>not talking

>>54828111
They also were not supposed to be smart, one of the dangers of giving primitive cultures space age tech. The original concept is that the coded message to Geordie was supposed to be complex and make references Geordie would get. But everything in the episode was just so hamfistedly handled that we never saw Pak'Led on screen again, even in episodes where they were plot relevant.

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>>54828295
>we never saw Pak'Led on screen again,
Na m8, they were all over the place in the background on DS9. They apparently did routine trading with Bajor.

>>54828865
I'd bet real money they were also involved with Quark's small scale smuggling. Probably entirely unwittingly.

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Reminder that the best Star Trek video game is a fucking Newgrounds flash game that no one had managed to surpass in ~10 years

>>54829177
New Horizons is getting there.

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>>54829177

you shut your goddamn whore mouth.

>>54819716
I just realized that those ships resemble the Jedi star destroyers from RotS with the bridge removed and wings added.

>>54830057
BotF is great, but that game really could use an upgrade. It barely runs on modern systems.

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>>54829177
Bitch please.

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Step aside, best game coming through

>>54826537
Goddamn, the more I look at it, the more I like it. This just screams "Cheaper than but just as versatile as the Nebula/Miranda and slightly faster as well".

>>54833615
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bmycssdaIA&list=PLDrUT1o3U33IjtAkWvz4p2urg5pdMchID

>>54826537
Pretty much an Ambassador saucer and nacelles with a Nebbie pod on top-all my favorite components! All she needs now is a Centaur-style Excelsior shuttlebay at the front of the saucer, but on the underside-she looks small enough to land, and it could have a big ramp inside the clamshell door.

However, I can't help but feel that she'd be better off with just the ventral nacelles and the mission pod lowered to where the dorsal nacelles were: all mass would be in line with the center of thrust from the impulse engines, it would meet Roddenberry's nacelle rules, and overall just be sleeker/lower-profile...

>>54834193
A little inelegant, but nothing some filler won't fix.
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/02d44a98-9153-4fec-9927-a2849cd9747b/Apollo-class-Light-Cruiser-WIP

>>54820562
>>54820623
>>54821737
Kazon would have worked best if the writers had just played up the Rhodesia/Zimbabwe angle they had going on with the Trabe.

>>54834888
>Kazon would have worked best if the writers were competent
No shit.

>toned-down emotions creating minds more disciplined than any pure-blooded vulcan could hope for at the cost of the trivialities of reduced strength, toughness, and calculative intelligence
Human-Vulcan relationships are the most logical course.
What're the Vulcan and human versions of blacked? Ponned and Rootbeered?

>>54834924
All I know is that for Cardassians I'd call it Nor'd

>>54834957
Gettin' summa that spoon poon.

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>>54834976

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>>54835011
>betazoid pussy

>>54834924
>Have kids with a Vulcan
>forced to put up with ridiculous Vulcan rituals
>partner is an insufferable emotional recluse that only wants to be intimate once every 7 years
>kids end up hated by both Vulcan and human children
>if they don't end up like Spock then you'll feel like a failure

Yeah, nah. Imma stick with non-terrible species, thanks

>>54829177
This desu. Whatever happened to the unity one that the folks down at Infinity Corner were meant to be making as a semi-sequel?
Broken Mirror III?

>>54835182
>>partner is an insufferable emotional recluse that only wants to be intimate once every 7 years
I think you're misinterpreting pon farr. They seem to have sex outside of it, going by Amok Time.
But yeah, putting up with the rituals does sounds tiresome.

>>54835208
I want to know how they can have these bonkers rituals and still call it all logical, unless they've some kind of cultural blindspot for them or know that they're not logical and do it because they legitimately enjoy them.

>>54835237
"Logical" to a Vulcan seems to mean "culturally acceptable," with displaying emotion not being within this.
I think it's generally implied that the rituals are designed as safety-release valves so Vulcans don't eventually go postal. Well, except pon farr.
Fuck it, the Romulans had the right idea. Vulcans a shit, Simon Tarses a cute.

>>54835237
>>54835285
The thing with the Vulcans and the rituals is that they work, stupid as they are, so it's only logical to keep on doing them.

>>54835444
They do in real life as well for many people. I personally cannot attest to it, but my best friend does meditations and always seems to be really relaxed afterwards (I personally think it's placebo but who cares, right?)

>>54835237
>cultural blindspot
Vulcan culture makes no sense. They claim to be logical, yet they keeps taking actions which are clearly not beneficial to their species as a whole. Logical interaction with non-vulcans would consist of xenocide to prevent them from potentially posing a threat and free up their planets for colonization if they were too technologically primitive to ensue MAD. Why would a vulcan see a non-vulcan as a person?

>>54836211
The Placebo effect can be a very powerful thing, as long as it works for them, that's perfectly fine in my opinion.

>>54836633
lol that sure went places.

>>54835285
I mean, "if I do this thing it keeps me chill all year." is pretty logical to me.

>>54834510
That's pretty neat.

>>54834193
Another option on the nacelles is to spread them out a bit more. If they were placed so that centre is in line with the phaser strips, I think it would look more balanced.

>>54837079

He is probably one of the people that keep insisting that Federation is a Evil Organisation and it does shitty things out of malice instead of incompetence.

Which kinda scares as STDs "main character" seems to be aimed at them, being edgy human with Vulcan adoptive parents.

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>>54834193
>>54834510
>>54837400

Main engineering is where the saucer shuttlebay used to be, there's a replacement hangar (stolen off an Excelsior and backwards) at the bottom of the saucer, and the sensor dome is replaced by the Nebbie pod (Galaxy doesn't have one, it's OK)

>>54837079
In a post scarcity society the last scarcity is the living space.
That's why federation seeks new worlds so they could colonize them as well as ally with other species, but what do you think will happen once every planet is terraformed and made suitable for life to one species or another and every star has as many space stations and orbital habitats as they can sustain?
Or let's go straight to the dyson sphere question, what then when you have a galaxy of dyson spheres?
Eventually there will be fighting over living space.

>>54838631
A Galaxy full of Dyson Spheres represents a Kardachev Type 3 Civilization, from there you continue on to Type 4, ie. doing the same thing to every galaxy in your universe.

>>54838631
You do realise how huge ass fucking big just our Milky Way Galaxy is. It would take hundreds, shit thousands of years to run out of space and then we would be talking about society with population in the hundreds of trillions or even more.

>>54838802
If you have no meaningful competition, nobody is going to stop you from reaching it eventually.

>>54838631
Well, we know from Trek history that numerous civilizations have risen and collapsed and while we have seen glimpses of Trek's future we haven't seen too far ahead in the grand scheme of things so maybe, just maybe, the federation collapses in a few thousand years, many races die out catastrophically and thus new races need to rise up and use the shattered remains of the previous civilizations to try their own hand at the whole "boldly going where no Pakled has gone before" shtick?

>>54838878
You are small. You think in small terms.

There are infinite parallel universes. Just travel to the earliest Inhabitable point time in one and set up there.

>>54839176
True, but like I said in >>54838709 , That's where you would go after passing Type 4 (Dysoning the entire universe), Type 5 is where shit gets interesting.

>>54838515
Sensor domes are more an old tech thing, the later era has had them largely replaced sensor pallets (certain small rectangular detailing bits you can spot on models) and larger arrays (indentation bits round the rims).

>>54827257
I guess bloodplay is still a thing in the 24th century
>>54829177
25th Anniversary for the PC would like a word with you.

>>54827257
That's not a vulcan. The cut on her abdomen isn't green.

>>54838631
Doesn't matter, humans eventually become Q or whatever

>>54841389
They forget about that more than they remember. Same reason we see red Klingon blood nearly all the time.

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>>54842337
For Klingons we see them with with red blood far more than pink though.

Not making any point, just sayin'.

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>>54835237
>>54836633
Logic is not scientism, or science, or always making the best decision for your own interest. It is a system of reaching consistent conclusions for the current situation, starting from a certain premise. So, if you start from different premises, two perfectly logical beings can come to different conclusions using the same logical rules. Vulcans seem to highly value order, and being logical will even order the mind. Just because meditation and incense is not "scientific" does not make it illogical: if order in your thoughts is good or desirable, it is logical to meditate and use incense if that gets you the mental order.

>>54842837
Nebbie a fukken cute

>>54842337
Pink blood was invented only for Undiscovered Country so they wouldn't get a higher rating due to the massacre with blood floating all around. Less gory if it's just a bunch of Pepto-Bismol splattered on everything.

>>54843616
I think we could make a pretty good case for the Klingons having pink blood because they need to take so many antacids to deal with the crippling stomach pains that come from a raw meat and alcahol exclusive diet.

>>54827257
Yuri goggles on.

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>>54843700
Star Trek has more canonical yuri than most other scifi series. Thanks Dax.

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>>54843804
Needs more.

...For science.

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>>54845958
Looks like the Reliant from Star Truck.

>>54843804
The 2nd best Dax kiss

>>54847178
What was the first best?

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>>54819716
I'm not sure Janeway understands the Prime Directive.
>warp-knowledgeable species explicitly asks for assistance
Even Picard saved that ugly girl's planet because she asked.

>>54847693
Prime Directive includes meddling in the internal affairs of a warp-capable species.

>>54847876
Obviously exceptions must be made for requests and provocations by the affected species or Picard would have been court-martialed for every second episode of TNG, especially the ones where he acts as the Arbiter of Succession.

>>54847920
Of course, but Janeway's schtick is that she's an inexperienced captain 70 years from home and she's unsure of where to draw the line. A seemingly benign request can result in that species using Fed tech to subjugate others, not to mention that might be resources they can't afford to give away.

>>54847920
I know it's TV logic (main actor can't leave the ship) but it always bothers me that Worf had like three separate chances to rule the Klingon Empire and never took them.

>>54848006
Pretty sure it was just one when he killed Gowron. When he killed Duras he was still disgraced and Gowron was declared Chancellor due to no living opposition.

>>54847998
>Of course, but Janeway's schtick is that she's an inexperienced captain
ENT had Archer develop from a bumbledug to a hardass, I suppose I'd be more forgiving of Janeway if I hadn't heard about her inconsistent characterization.
>>54848006
He'd be dead in a week and he knows it.

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>>54829177
>>54832896
>>54833615
You present some mighty champions, but this discussion is not complete without Bridge Commander.

>>54839664
But the Ambassador still had one, so I need to justify a contemporary vessel based on that spaceframe lacking it.

someone tell me my idea of using intrepid class ships in wolf pacs is a bad idea.im obsessed with it. all lt cmdrs lead by a senior cmmdr.

>>54848062
>turns out the robots asking for help are crazy saberhagen berserker dudes
Well fuck me sideways.

>>54848203
Why would a ship nominally lead by a captain have a LTC in command? Also, why the hell would you be using a science vessel in any sort of wolf pack tactics? That's like using a fleet of icebreakers to try and bumrush a missile cruiser.

>>54848254
thought they were fast border patrollers.

>>54848203
Intrepid class ships are meant for solo work for long range science (or possibly recon and black ops) missions, which is why they're fast, have tons of firepower and sensor power, bioneural computers, the aeroshuttle, and landing capability, even before the ludicrous shit Voyager tacked on. If you want a wolf pack of smaller ships you want Peregrines or Delta Flyers.

>>54848292
What? No. That's not their job. The Federation would likely be using Miranda and Soyuz classes vessels to do the task, and probably the kitbashes from Wolf 359 until the hulls were mothballed or scrapped.

>>54847920
>especially the ones where he acts as the Arbiter of Succession.
K'mpec blackmailed him into that role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDDygzBT7Fo

>>54848384
Looking back, K'mpec selected Duras and Gowron because he suspected either of killing him, but nobody else who could oppose them, so even if Picard discovered which one killed him, the only one left would be somebody shitty enough to be suspected of such a thing.

>>54848218
That was one of the biggest "oh shit" moments in early VOY. How'd you like the episode overall?

>>54848218
...and that's why the Prime Directive applies even to warp capable species.

>>54848577
Best one so far, though the robots where slightly over-emotive.

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>>54836633
>>54837079
>>54838631
>>54838802
>>54838878
>>54843158
The point is, a perfectly logical civilization would make /pol/ look positively accepting and nice by comparison. All resources being used by aliens could alternately be used by your species.

>>54848828
Again, you are confusing logic for something else. A perfectly pacifist system can be perfectly logical, just like a perfectly self-interested system (which is what you are suggesting) is also perfectly logical. Logic is, again, just a system to get conclusions and determine actions based on a certain set of rules: if A then B, if A and B then C, etc. Following the rules is logic. That's why the Vulcans are so butthurt about illogical races: they don't follow their internal rules. They could deal with the Klingons, because the Klingons follow their own sort of logic, at least on a civilizational level. Humans, on the other hand, will just go with the flow, having little consistency in their individual actions, let alone as an organization.
Vulcan logic is a philosophy designed to get rid of all the chaos that comes with emotional decision making. They tried that, and it led to nuclear war, almost destroying their civilization, and possibly their species. It's a system to keep things rational, to take out the passion inherent to their species. If logic were just one thing, they wouldn't need to study the writings of Surak and meditate over a lifetime, but just do Philosophy 120.

>>54847429
Kira on Ezri

>>54848539
Kinda explains how fucked the Klingon Empire is by the end of DS9, if that's how their political class has risen to the top.

Do you guy ever find yourselves getting annoyed by episodes that with slight tweaks would be noticeably better? Or at least a little less bad.

Like Rascals. Have the Enterprise damaged and evacuated down to a skeleton crew and suddenly the takeover is way less insane. Still fairly insane but a lot more excusable.

Or Pen Pals. Change the thread to can get they fix the problem without being noticed because they don't want to be getting people all oh shit divine intervention happened on them. Turns out sort of but not nearly as well as if they can get away with obviously saving everyone's ass, Data's call gets them out of the jam by just saying that they can go all in.

Or numerous occasions just with an arse covering of saying the proper specialists people will be on their way; science, engineering or diplomatic teams and so on when the ship's just buggered off at the end of the episode where there's clearly more to do.

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>>54838515
Damn the Nebula is big.

My Apollo came out looking a little different because I'm using Probert Ambassador parts.

>>54855315
Yeah, I feel like a lot of episodes that get flak for inconsistency or bankrupt morality could be saved with pretty minimal changes.

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>>54856847

Homeward:
Enterprise turns up at the last moment because there was barely any warning about shit going down, manages to pull the scientists out.

No citation of prime directive, clearly defined for all concerned that they were unable to do anything rather than just implied; episode now just mediocre.

Samaritan Snare:
Have Riker listen to Troi and Worf and compromise by giving Geordie a security detail and maybe another engineer or two. Don't make the Pakleds look like they ride the short bus even if they sound it. Have the security detail fail anyway (just stunned though because eh why not). Less obvious 'outwitting' the Pakleds.

>>54855315
"Dear Doctor"
>Archer orders Phlox to give up the cure
>Phlox refuses, deletes data
>Archer throws Phlox in the brig until next week when we forget about it

>>54855365
And has a secondary hull with even more internal volume to boot: I know most people love the Nebbie, but I've always felt that she was too bulky to be a SMALLER version of the Galaxy-class.
Even if she's supposed to be half the Big D's size, she *looks* the same because a completely unaltered Galaxy saucer was used for the kitbash; given the chance, I would:
>extend the hangar coming off the back of the bridge platform to the edge of the saucer
>remove the secondary hull entirely, put a big impulse engine where the neck used to mount
>mount the nacelle pylons where the original impulse engines were, with the flat lip between them forming a deck around the back of the saucer like the Ambassador outside the entrance of the hangar

>>54829177

Starfleet Command would like to get in on this discussion.

>>54829177
Link please?

>>54848311

Or Defiants. The ship actually built from the keel up as a warship.

>>54856847

The problem is, of course, that those episodes CAN'T be saved by minor tweaks. They were written, filmed, and aired as is. So that's the end of it. We just have to accept that Trek has bad episodes, that occasionally a fine character is written out of character in an episode, or that the scenario makes little sense.

>>54858808
A Defiant wolf pack would be to an enemy fleet what a wood chipper is to a rotten log. I have to assume there's one such squadron guarding every major system of the Federation after the Dominion and Borg incidents.

>>54858051
Dear Doctor:
They give them the cure, unsure if it will work, promise to send someone more capable given they're just an exploratory vessel with very limited resources.

Incidental call-back a couple of seasons down the line: turns out that it sorta worked, but the Vulcans didn't want to help because of the chronic assholitus they suffered at that point. Instead Andorians came in because being passionate about one-upping the Vulcans and stuff and finally fixed it themselves, gaining a little bit of respect for Archer's bunch for even trying and getting as far as they did with the crap all they had to work with.

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>>54858899


That is the point anon. If we're going to wolfpack, we should be doing it right.

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>>54858404
Like so.

>>54859029

That one just kind of looks naked.

>>54858808
If I was the man in charge of allocating the dockyards after the Dominion War you bet your sweet ass every single one would be stamping out Defiants until 300 minimum had been constructed.

Given that everything from Miranda onward seems to have been built to be potentially upgraded indefinably the UFP will be eternally grateful for the MURDER SWARM you commission for possibly centuries to come.

Biggest hassle will be staffing them with trust worthy and reliable crew. Star Fleet may have to start employing from outside institutions to do the grunt work on the ships. I can imagine the Andorians requesting, even demanding, the right to get first dibs on the warships.

It's not a "militarized Star Fleet" (because staf fleet is, like, totes not a military you guiz for realzies) it's just patrol boats and boarder guards making up for the last 150 years of insufficient investment that contributed to the latest bunch of received ass beatings.

>>54859029
I really don't like the look of that.

>>54858404
>I've always felt that she was too bulky to be a SMALLER version of the Galaxy-class.

You and me both. Nebula needs better visual cues that the saucer isn't the 2-ish million ton fat bastard the Galaxy has, like the nacelles look bigger compared to the saucer, along with the usual stuff of known size like the bridge module.

>>54859029
Needs to tuck those nacelles in under the saucer more, they're too far out.

>>54846386
Tell me more of this "star truck" I attempted to find info in the databases but am having difficulties

>>54859434
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3v461f

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>>54859472
>making fun of Doohan's obesity

>>54848062
Yeah, Worf is way too, well, honorable to be High Chancellor.

Klingon politics is pretty fucking samurai in that they're very into honor until it is slightly inconvenient and then the rule is "don't get fucking caught'.

>>54850399
Yeah, it's important to remember that every time we tap into a Vulcan's emotions we get a damn good reason why they repress the shit out of them. Remember when Picard mind melded with a sick Surak and just spent the rest of the episode screaming?

>>54848006
>>54848056
Worf becoming Chancellor would've been so much better of a cap to his character growth. The outsider who's been fucked around with all his life ends up ruling the Empire by right of combat because he's more Klingon than anyone else. Can still have Martok as his General.

>>54860842
It makes you wonder how the Betazoids survive contact with them considering their total lack of respecting privacy.

>I'm bored. Oh hey, I'll just rifle through ensign T'Nisa's grey matter for the rest of my shift OH GOD WHAT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH PLEASE I'M SORRY PLEASE STOP I'M BEGGING YOU AAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!! OH GOD WHY, WHY, WHY!

A few days late when the screaming has stopped and the doctor lets the idiot psychic out of the restraints she walks into the mess hall to see ensign T'Nisa siting all prim and proper in the seat she has sat for breakfast for the last 30 years. She looks up over her reading PADD and makes eye contact with the deer in headlights paralyzed Betazoid. "Did you like what you saw?" she asks in her habitual soft, flat voice, her expression a century old deadpan. Betazoid runs out of the room sobbing. Vulcans take their privacy seriously.

>>54861016
And now I know what my first fanfic will have for its B Plot

>>54861016
>>54861049
A Vulcan of all people would have some protection against telepathy wouldn't they?
Shielding their thoughts against outside intrusion?

>>54861320
They could have been making a point. Maybe they are sick of the Betazoids just waltzing in like they own the place and looking at things they have no right to look at, private things that hold value both joyful and sorrowful and are neither for other to know or see. And Vulcans can't remotely attack psychically, to get into someones head they have to grab their face and hold on.

When there is a Betazoid on board the ship to every Vulcan it's a constant siege with no relief from their privacy transgressions and no way of fighting back. Humans have it worse in that they have no defenses at all to speak of but also don't usually come to real harm from the trawling unless something truly horrendous is dredged up. But for a Vulcan there is always a risk that the clumsy intrusion will knock down a wall and that is a very real problem.

And they don't understand that no means no.

It's more expedient to just to let them see what's in there, just once. Once is usually enough. After that no more problem.

If they respect the most basic notions of privacy there is no problem at all to start with, the injury is entirely self inflicted.

>>54861016
>>54861474
Considering the Betazoid exponential sexdrive, they may get turned on by the dark behind the wall and think the Vulcan is being flirty.

>>54861518
Not unless it's pon far season.

Picard looks inside Surak's head and turns into a weeping gibbering wreck screaming about people he has never met.

A member of the race of Delta Quadrant Betazoids who dealt in black market violent thoughts looked inside Tuvok's head. He received a full Event Horizon sequence I think they actually snuck in a few frames from Event Horizon in there if they did then holy shit I don't know how they managed that and it ended with Tuvock sadistically beating the shit out of him and loving every minute of it.

Unless the Betazoid is into snuff porn and being the murder victim they aren't going to have a good time.

>>54861320
ENT actually established fanfiction.net style psychic sex bonds as canon. Mate bonded Vulcans (or humans bonded to Vulcans) are immune to the sexual shenanigans of Orion women.

>>54859070
>>54859184
>>54859196

>https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/d101a83e-6ec3-4f6f-a448-3c368037d8af/Nebula-class-Redesign-WIP
Feel free to change it as you please.

I reshuffled it even more to use less "new" (scratchbuilt) components: the original saucer hangar now connects it to an inverted Galaxy "neck" and uses the doors for the neck bays, and the "pod" is mounted where the secondary hull used to be; still haven't put a big impulse engine where the separation point was, but will eventually...

>>54861686
>>54861518
>>54861474
>>54860842
Picard melding with Sarek was specifically to transfer Sarek's instability to him. Other times we see mind-melds and the human is no worse for wear.
Hell, Archer gets the neck pinch and can coach mind-melds because of his.

>>54863286
Wait, nevermind, because he was Sarek for a little while. I believe my point stands regardless.

>>54863358
*Surak
Fugg

>>54848203
>>54848254
>>54848311
>>54858808
>>54858899
>>54859099
>We need small, capable, powerful ships for swarm tactics since that was the only tactic even remotely successful against the Borg.
>But the hilariously upgunned mirandas we had kept in reserve for that all got slaughtered by the Dominion, so it still needs to be quite tough.
>It also needs to be good enough for border patrol and other combat-but-not-quite-war operations when needed.
>The Defiant is a bad enough dude, but it needs to be literally tethered to a starbase because of how tiny and overpowered everything inside it is.
>Hell, large numbers of any combat ship'll be a pain to run, at least logistically - we'll also need smaller numbers of less aggressive ships to do our usual shit in peacetime.
>Plus, we still need to at least PRETEND to not be a military, and a literal pocket battleship is not good for that public image.
>Splitting the wolfpacks down into small groups, each under the command of one captain, helps keep shit organised in terms of the chain of command.
>Staffing them might be an issue, but we've got so much tech on our hands right now it can be almost entirely automated if we really have to.
Oh look, we just invented the Prometheus. Fuck you /stg/ for doing nothing but shit on her in perpetuity.

>>54863498
It's because it's still a dumb idea that brings more problems than it solves.

The actual solution would be the Sabre.
Small but with decent armament. Some extra facilities beyond that. Not as tiny as Defiant.

>>54863616
Not him, but what problems are those? I've always seen it shot down over it being overengineered, but does nobody remember how Starfleet engineering is literally sorcery?

>>54863498
The Multi Vector mode is still a maintenance nightmare that doesn't actually solve any problems, and actually adds more, because if a portion suffers crippling damage that prevents it from going to warp as well as rejoining the whole, you've just wasted drydock time because your ship can't function properly. The Prometheus would have been better as a design that worked out all the kinks of the Defiant and then added more engine power and guns to make the thing a pocket dreadnought.

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What sort of technology might another warp capable society have that the Federation would be willing to trade replicators for?

I'm having trouble thinking of one due to how OP replicators can be.

>>54863666
>if a portion suffers crippling damage that prevents it from going to warp as well as rejoining the whole
it doesn't matter because each part is capable of operating independently which means they can just tractor the damage part to starbase for repairs and then go on smaller-scale missions in the meantime, whereas if a single ship the size of a Prometheus suffers catastrophic damage to a third of its mass, chances are it can't do shit.

>>54863696
The super transporters that those guys had in season one of VOY

>>54863721
The secondary warp cores on the Prometheus class are rated at like Warp 5, and the sections aren't meant to do much more than shoot things, which isn't all of Starfleet's mission. Meanwhile, standard vessels can reroute systems and at least limp home, and use less dilithium overall. We'll just have to agree to disagree, because this argument is a round and round one.

Personal opinion irrespective of any possible qualities, MVAM is from the absolute worst show in Trek canon, and feels like it was added so the stupid viewers could go OH MAN THAT'S SUPER FUCKING COOL, rather than do something that the UFP would do in VOY. I'm arguing fluff, rather than my opinion on because of that.

>>54863696
Dilithium supplies. Reliable cloaking detection. Any of the super travel tech Janeway destroyed. Anti Borg weapons.
Plus, replicators still need retarded amounts of power and or conversion mass, they aren't actually a magical make anything box.

>>54863498
>>The Defiant is a bad enough dude, but it needs to be literally tethered to a starbase because of how tiny and overpowered everything inside it is.
The obvious solution is to attach a pair of Defiants to EVERY starbase, and a full squadron to the big mushroom starbases like Spacedock. Border patrol should be carried out by Akiras and Galaxies that can carry their swarm with them at high warp.

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>>54864082
>and Galaxies that can carry their swarm with them at high warp.
I hope this idea isn't too crazy.

>>54864159
I don;t think that's needed, I think the big dudes can just extend their warp bubble.

>>54864159
Socket a pair under the saucer, on either side of the sensor pod. Might even look reasonable.

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>>54864223
I was thinking more on the lines of this. Just make it latch-on docking bays on the underside of the saucer, replaces a lot of bulk with hangar space.

Reminds me of back when in the X games you could attach an M6 type Escort to an M2 Destroyer.

>>54863842
Keeping in mind when that episode happened the Federation was knee-deep in the war against the Dominion and was throwing all kinds of shit at the wall trying to see what could work.

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>>54864159

>>54864159
Sweet fucking christ that is bad, awesome, terrible and OP all at once.

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>>54864159

>EMH is the first character to get any
I've found the secret to finding love.
Get really, really good at something, look groomed but not overly so, and act like an ass with occasional flashes of humor.

>>54861016
I mean betazoids probably have plenty of psychic protection, Troi suffering from being the Team Psychic aside.

That said, hot. I think we've found the plot to Vulcan Love Slave 2.

>>54865418
Alternatively, be a computer program allowed permission to modify your own program, so you can simply program yourself to be a sexual god.

>>54865418
>voy chart basically says no one should watch beyond threshold
>3/4 of the following episodes are fuckin' gold

>>54864159
UNLIMITED PHASER WORKS

>>54864159
>Yo Dawg...

>>54865613
what did he mean by this?

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>>54865671
I have no idea.

>>54864223
I had started looking at how many would fit on the top of the saucer of a normal galaxy. Then I thought, wait, why not cut notches in the saucer like docking bays on a station? It's certainly big enough.
Could dock for repairs, torpedoes, shore leave to use the holodecks. And like that other anon suggested, hitch a ride at higher warp speeds.

Doesn't mean its not crazy.

>>54864159
C'mon, you can fit another under the fantail and one more on each side of the secondary hull...

>>54865831
I think we've inadvertantly discovered the next big thing in carrier design.

Is star trek attack wing still going? Worth going into at all?

I like X-Wings system a lot and I know it's the same just with trek stuff. Anything interesting about it?

>>54866169
So we just re-invented the PF Tender from Star Fleet Battles/Command.

Just the PFs have Cruiser level weapons.

>>54866169
>>54865831

Well, carrying compact warships does make a hell of a lot more sense in Star Trek than fighter craft.

However I think a craft other than the Galaxy would be better. I mean Galaxy is a good base for being huge, but I think this can be made more efficient.
A big dock ship in the same line though would also be really handy for just moving these 'system patrol craft' and the like around between systems. Defiant already has decent range, enough to cruise for more than two weeks.

Maybe there's a way to cram Defiant tier armament, speed and shielding into an even more compact package for when endurance isn't so much of a problem, because they're expected to operate within just a few lightyears of a base/ship rather than having to cruise for at least two weeks unsupported? Pack 4-6 of those into a moderate carrier rather than going all-out and well shit, there's a great little bundle of joy for any system that needs defences.

>>54865831
>>54866169
>>54866360
I mean, the Galaxy WAS designed as a mobile starbase, so...

>>54866351
>>54866360
>>54866419
Wait. I'm brainstorming here and just had a thought.

What if we make a Defiant THE mission pod for the Nebbie?

>>54866351
>Just the PFs have Cruiser level weapons.

And cruiser level protection. That's the real key, I mean fighters can carry a handful of torpedoes and might have an ok Phaser bank, but shit like the Defiant can tank hits like a pro with both shields and armour, but to gain that cruiser-tier firepower it sacrifices its all-round armament as well as range.

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>>54866502
That feels like going from a crazy but actually not crazy idea into entire Defiants are the new Miranda rollbar/Nebula mission pod that gets added onto every other fan design.

I mean... OK, but come on, not everything needs one.

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>>54866147
Wanted to restrict changes to the saucer to make it easier to swap out. That way the drive section could return to service doing other duties if there is no need for a carrier. Otherwise, yes.

>>54866360
>Maybe there's a way to cram Defiant tier armament, speed and shielding into an even more compact package for when endurance isn't so much of a problem
If you reduced the crew accommodations even more that'd cut 10 meters off its length.

>>54866502
You could easily fit two on it.

>>54866419
I think we can all agree this is only half as crazy as rube goldberg saucer separation

>>54866646
With a fully loaded up and manned Nebula having two Defiants ready to push someone's shit in at a moments notice, you could secure every populated Federation system from damn near anything except a full blown invasion.

I mean fuck, it'd be what? About 550-600 people on the Nebbie plus another 100 for the two Defiants? And this Nebbie is in full Dominion war spec. No families or superfrivioulus crap.

>>54866787
You'd want some of the happy fun time facilities and a double set of holodecks just for crew morale. Tom Paris lived better in prison than Defiant crews did aboard ship.

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>>54866502
Though it's the perfect size for the Intrepid design study model.

>>54866898
Take out 2/3 of the quarters, make people hotbunk all 3 shifts (since they are only aboard during alerts anyway) and skip the micro warpcore for a bank of supercapacitors. You can have all the niceties aboard the mother vessel.

>>54866787
>>54866898
Crews themselves would live aboard the Nebbies with only a skeleton crew needed for each Defiant. Since they're only being sent out when needed and attached to the Nebula when not, they don't need to worry about self-sufficiency and maintenance.

In fact, you could cut out the entirety of the crew quarters and facilities except maybe a sickbay and load it up with even more dakka.

>>54866936
Now THAT is a useful combo. The Intrepid has long legs and a fast warp drive, and the astrometrics lab can watch battles half a quadrant away if you know where to look. Landing mode becomes useful for battlefield repairs on long solo (duo?) missions. Imagine how much ass Voyager could have kicked with a Defiant partner ship docked in.

>>54861686
>Spoiler
They did. Three different shots, in fact.

>feds protected them and kept them out of the bloodiest war in the quadrant a few decades ago
>feds have to set up shop on their world (which is a fucking UFP member) while they're fighting off a battlefleet roughly the size of the original xbox
>FEDDIE OCCUPATION YOU'RE JUST LIKE THE SPOONHEADS GET OUT REEEEEEE

>hi hello we're still totally relevant because this gateway is just like our wormhole
>y'know, the one we didn't actually handle and just sat on our arses praying to the thing while there was a fucking war over it
>yeah so our expertise in this matter is very important and we're going to be fucking snowflakes and send our own delegate
>because fuck the UNITED federation of planets, amirite?

I'm actually slogging my way through the story missions for the first time in forever, and if nothing else, STO got Bajoran assholery absolutely spot-on.

>>54859029
deflector where?

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>>54864159
>>54866169
>>54866360
You're not cool unless you can fit them inside.

>>54868094
I dunno: Miranda and Centaur don't have a big glowing dish, although Miranda's are clearly atop the saucer on either side of the bridge...
Maybe as a bump on the top of each nacelle, or in the front of the inverted Galaxy "neck" I have supporting the pod?

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>>54868205
They could've made her so much better if they went down the "battlestar" route: pointed half-saucer bow with a groove in the rim, stretched hull with the nacelles brought close in, and chunky distinct (modular) hangar bays...

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>>54868205
>>54868330
>Seriously, just google "USS Galactica"
Countless functional-looking possibilities, and they pick this weird half-melted blob with no coherent feel: is it chunky? Is it spindly? Is it sleek? Sure, whatever...frakking Crypic.

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>>54868330
>>54868351
Jupiter is basically a Cryptic version of that. And for once, the Cryptic version looks more trek-like than the fan stuff. It's basically the logical extreme of the mono/fused body stuff canon trek has been moving towards. Kinda like a mix of the Akira and Constellation, or two NX fused, buffed up 4x.

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>>54868401
A carrier should feel MASSIVE, and that is conveyed by chunkiness or sheer volume: the Excalibur (e.g. the Ark Royal) does the latter nicely through lots of tiny windows, and the Typhon excels at the former by merely existing.
Personally, I feel that the Jupiter is just *too* sleek-I think making the hangars cutouts instead of extensions would go a long way toward improving her vibe without ruining her lines, as it would create vertical slabs of metal and hangar door/forcefield along each side for that "sod off, you little snot" vibe she should radiate...

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>>54868454
If the portion outside the red lines is cut off, she'd actually look bigger...

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>>54868454
>the Excalibur (e.g. the Ark Royal) does the latter nicely through lots of tiny windows
The Jupiter also has lots of tiny windows; it's silly to say it doesn't look massive. And those doors on the side (and the front) are big enough to launch and recover frigates (not much smaller than Defiants). It's much clearer from different angles that this thing is a pig.

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>>54868454
>A carrier should feel MASSIVE, and that is conveyed by chunkiness or sheer volume
Why? It just needs to be actually big enough to do it's job, whatever that is. The carrier in your pic is pretty small (possibly too small - fighters in Trek are pretty big), it just looks like a brick. Pic related looks pretty slick from all angles besides one; it is just big enough to do it's thing. A Trek escort-carrier (especially in STO) would still need to be a proper, fully-functional starship too, and the form should be similar visually to other ships of its space-empire.

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Is anyone at all excited for the new series coming out and it's... unique take on the Klingons?

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>>54868589

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>>54868589
Between this and the black bulbous heads with forehead ridges I could almost swear it's actually a 40k crossover.

>>54868527
I'll give you that it looks huge when shown at the same scale as other vessels, but I maintain that it is just too damn streamlined-maybe if the aft hull was just a bit more blocky?

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>>54868649
Bonus pic, with gun pits and a turret mounted.. cannon?

>>54868589
Why would Klingons need a sarcophagus ship? They treat corpses as literal garbage after they do their death yell.

>>54868937
I don't know, but I am eager to find out.
Either it'll be terrible and I'll feel validated for having called that, or it won't be and then hey, new Trek series that doesn't suck.

>>54863842
I remember it gettin mentioned in the episode that Prometheus is a prototype ship, because that's what protos are for, to test if the shit you are making the ship is actually viable for mass production.

Remember that Excelsior started off as esperimental ship about Transwarp usage and when that went bust they realised they had a decent Cruiser in their hands.

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>>54868589
Not even CBS is excited for it.

>just watched the episode where the voyager is duplicated and kim and the baby bite it
I'm not sure what people mean when they say the original Harry Kim is dead, there's no indication that the duplication created a ship ex nihilo rather than forking it as in Farscape when John got duped. Fuck that was good. Shoulda had two Tuvoks or something for the rest of the series.

>>54869271
I'd trade 3 kims for 2 tuvoks. Or anything besides any kims.

>>54869271
And the episode after has annoying asshole kids in half the scenes and aliens who refuse to explain why janeway should leave everything to them
No wonder VOY only got seven seasons

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>>54866169
>>54866502
>>54866635
>>54866646
>>54866787
Combine something like this fan design with the TOS-era Ptolemy-class cargo tug. The empty area between the warp nacelles can hold interchangeable cylindrical components and/or spacedock-style framework supports to contain multiple Defiants.

>>54864470
>>54864223
>>54864159

Guys... did we just bring SFB Pseudofighters/Fast Patrol Ships/Gunboats and their Tenders into Canon?

>>54869051

Is swear they are just doing Discovery to fuck Netflix around with. Not researching Trek I expect, but not even doing Market Research?
They are either trying to screw over a business rival with a poison pill show or this is some Spring Time for Hitler thing we're seeing right now.

>>54869614

It was still more seasons than anyone wanted. Voyager only existed because DS9 couldn't get made otherwise.

"Voyager started the deathspiral of small screen Star Trek that continued in Enterprise and will culminate in Discovery"

Discuss

>>54868654
>canon

>>54870322
this thing mounted my canon nonconsensually

New Thread
>>54871085
>>54871085
>>54871085
>>54871085

>>54870156

DS9 and VOY had decent ratings for genre shows, comparable to other fairly big name shows of the time (like the X-Files). It's actually TNG that "started" the death spiral, because the execs were continuing to chase the mainstream appeal that TNG brought to the table.

Those numbers weren't sustainable because TNG came out at a time when there were only a handful of channels, and it was syndicated, so there were a lot of options to watch it.

What killed Trek was TNG. Both the show, which produced the audience numbers chase, and the movies, which were terrible yes, even First Contact.

The last nail in the coffin was the inability to figure out why chasing TNG's numbers wasn't working, and moving Trek to a single shitty network. VOY tried to be TNG's 8th-14th seasons, and even when it good it was only barely so. ENT had two seasons where they didn't really know what they wanted to do with the show, so it was basically TNG with a new coat of paint.