/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>54794147
>Salty, matey
Nobody does, our uncommonly talented pair of trolls are just really good at turning things into a dumpster fire.

>>54794147
>Why do people get so salty over Mage abilities?
They just want to be the best at something for once. I can understand getting mad at always being definitively bested, as childish as it is.

>>54794147
Here's an 100exp. Feel like you've won the game yet?

>>54794147
Because people want crossover, and mage supremacy shits on any crossover.

>>54794209
Good. People who want crossover are stupid. Why on earth would you want crossover? Splats should only ever guest star as NPCs in another splat's game, tailored to fit that splat.

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Question because I've gotten confused recently. How and Where are ghosts formed in CoD? If I understand it, then ghosts are formed after a person dies within Twilight. The soul's passing into the afterlife leaves an imprint on the ephemera thus creating a creature with a personality and memories identical to the original person.

>>54794234
I fully agree. I made my vampires significantly more stronger for my Mage games to have them as NPCs. Just mashing two games together is stupid.

>>54794209
This is actually true.

Without a mage in the game, most of CofD works well together. Everyone has stuff they do well, everyone has weaknesses and things to worry about. Everyone has rivals and foes, and sometimes those problems overlap. But with enough skill, and everyone working together, you can have a lot of fun.

Then Mage comes along, and with three dots in the related arcanum, they can usually do what a dedicated character of the other type specializes in.

Literally, one of the selling points of nWoD/CofD is how it allows you to play in this giant sandbox, without worrying about a metaplot. All the games use the same system, and therefore they have stressed in every single book how different creep types are not alone, there are other things out there, having their sometimes related problems.

But then they keep making Mage take a piss on that.

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>>54794209
Beast is the only good crossover splat. All the other splats irrationally hate each other.

>>54794259
Now tell them how it's secretly a superhero splat.

This bullshit was started because some moronic asinine thought Celerity could
>1. Somehow mentally gather what the Mage was planning on doing
>2. Defend against being spontaneously combusted, admirably.

Yes, they/he/she/it was an utter and unfathomable idiot.
Yes, the Magefags screeched a mighty screech

Could we please just drop it?

Just this once?
Please?

>>54794269
Wrong anon. Don't put words in my mouth.

>>54794273
You were the first person to bring up celerity.

You officially restarted it now. Congrats.

>>54794278
Then stop using the same arguments.

>>54794259
You're not supposed to cross the Templates in the playable sense. They're meant to be used as NPCs.

If you seriously thought balance was a focal point for the development of CofD, you thought wrong.

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>>54794273
FUCK OFF superhero fag

>>54794287
That was an opinion, not an argument.

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Your standard Moros

>>54794293
Than how come all the other splats are relatively balanced with each other while Mages are a complete outlier and far above anything else?

>>54794259
>implying player crossover was ever a goal of these games outside shitty attempts like beast and at some point in the future crossover chronicles
>implying that splats don't all clash thematically and have little reason to actually be associating on a serious level
>implying mage has to be involved with your silly monster mash for some reason
2/10 got me to reply

>>54794299
Now tell them how this belongs in D&DG.

>>54794293
I mean, except now they have made several books with information on how to crossover.

A whole book of alternate time settings, with built in crossover.

Are developing a second of said books.

A whole splat dedicated to crossover.

And are going to make a crossover dedicated book.

But naw, not a focus at all.

>>54794303
Fear of the logical conclusion of you ideas means there is a flaw in your conclusions

>>54794318
>what is demon
>what is mummy
>>54794324
Don't forget that was why they made one system early on in nWoD development, even explicitly stating it in dev diaries!

>>54794318
You think Demon and Mummy are balanced with the other splats? You think Hunter is, or Geist? You are delusional, my friend.

>>54794318
Mages, Mummies and Demons are above and beyond everything else. Archmages even more so.

Likewise, Hunters are below much and more.

Balance was never a priority, the devs have said this before.

>>54794318
Except Mummy. But they also didn't seem to expect anyone to play Mummy.

If they did, it might have been good.

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>>54794314
Your alternative Moros.

>>54794329
Actually it is because your conclusions have no effect on how I'm going to run my games. So having an argument about it would be pointless.

>>54794338
Mummy is good. You just have to play it much more like a WoD game was 'intended' to be played - all very personal, not much power wank at all. Then you go berserk and empty a small office building or something because they stole your mystic undies, then back to the personal aspect.

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>>54794259
>>54794318
>>54794324

>>54794364
DaveB is an asshat.

No one cares what he says except his personal cult.

Every time he is quoted, it is him saying something so idiotic that you wonder how he still has a job.

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>>54794332
>>54794333
>>54794334
>>54794338
Nobody fucking plays mummy and demons are only super Op if they go Loud which shouldn't happen once in a perfect game. Try again superhero fags

>>54794364
You know what FUCK YOU and your SHITTY FUCKIGN MAGE GMAE

balance should be a exist but no you have to storm in here and piss all over everyone "CELERITY IS USELESS HURR DEE DURR DURR" go fuck yourselves

>>54794324
You seem like you have good points, but you really don't. The Dark Eras books will have the potential for crossover, of course, but that doesn't mean player crossover is a focus. Beast actually does very little for crossover beyond trying to give a reason for it to happen at all, and the Crossover Chronicles will suck.

>>54794299
Strange seems like a weird example of a Mage.
In the comics he's a pretty high-tier Mastigos, but the MCU version of him is as close to street level as you can get with a Mage.
https://youtu.be/Iw1DTDSlQRE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jGkGBsvm_0

>>54794372
The only reason why he got hired was because he was a fanatical mage the ascension fanboy and sucked off it's writer.

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>>54794394
Classic Dr. Strange is Archmage levels of bullshit

>>54794384
>>54794385
This isn't even impressive. A tip, you'll be taken more seriously and not immediately dismissed if you actually articulate like a normal person instead of a raging autist.

You know what OWOD did right? All the spalts hating each other all the time, to the point of instantly getting in a fight with each other should they ever meet. Of course, there were exceptions to this. (The Carnival, Blood Treachery etc....)

>>54794387

Wait wait wait...

>Will have potential

The book is already out, numbnuts. I've read it. Crossover is pretty big in there.

Beast was specifically stated as being made for crossover, that was part of the devblogs and all that.

And then you're just like 'the crossover book will suck'. Good to see that time magic is working out.

>>54794372
>Every time he is quoted, it is him saying something so idiotic that you wonder how he still has a job.
Like what?

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>>54794314
Wonder Woman obvious Mastigos. chains and ropes + mental lasso

>>54794412
The only thing oWoD did right was end.

That didn't even take. An eternal failure.

>>54794424
No, the author just had a thing for bdsm.

I'm serious.

>>54794415
>Crossover is pretty big in there
Examples of player specific crossover stuff, please?

>Beast was specifically stated as being made for crossover, that was part of the devblogs and all that.
And in practice how much does it do? Can you show me?

>And then you're just like 'the crossover book will suck'. Good to see that time magic is working out.
It's a little rough, but accurate.

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>>54794394
>Strange is only a high tier Mastigos
Try again wod fag

>>54794443
I was going to say 'yeah no duh, everyone knows that'. But I'm on /tg/, not /co/. My bad.

>>54794443
Not saying he/she/they didn't, but it still fits the path really well.

>>54794462
It's /tg/. Even without quests you can still find everything from poorly researched arguments on quantum physics to poorly disguised specialised fetish pornography. It's pretty easy to lose track of where you are.

>>54794237
But guys, am I right? Does this make any sense?!?!

>>54794470
He.

>>54794237
It's never really been discussed. Maybe in Geist, but I'm not a hundred percent certain on that and Geist as a gameline scares me.

Most theories involve them being an echo or the actual soul, yeah, bound by some strong emotion or desire. Demonically tainted ones like father lollipop from inferno are different, but there needs to be some serious pull for them to stay.

>>54794237
>maybe this will work
I'm playing a Moros, so now this question is mage related. Spam to your heart's content.

>>54794324

How would one rank the lines based on how strong they are then? Or even better, how does one rank them based on compatibility/?

>>54794545
Go back about two threads using the OP links. We had a million of those rankings.

>>54794237
Close, but not quite. I'm not totally clear on the how, but a ghost isn't identical to the original person, unless his corpus is in really good shape, which barring a Mage restoring it for him, isn't likely. The imprint stuff is pretty accurate, but the ghost won't always be coherent, or intelligent, or whole, etc.

>>54794237
Ghosts are *not* the actual person in question, no matter what they say, believe or act like. This is made clear by the fact that you can have ghosts form from someone that is very much still alive. As well, a person, dead or alive, can have multiple ghosts running around.

God Tier
>Archmage

Semi-God Tier
>True Fae
>Incarnate Beast

Overpowered Tier
>Prep Mage
>Loud Demon
>Fresh Mummy

Higher Tier
>Mage
>Sin-Eater w/Boneyard
>Demon
>Mummy
>Beast
>Sin-Eater
>Werewolf
>Changeling

Lower Tier
>Promethean
>Vampire
>Surprised Mage
>Prep Hunter
>Hunter

>>54794545
Rank them based on compatibility?

Easy to merge:

Geist (They deal with ghosts, ghosts are almost always present.)
Vampire (Vampires don't operate in daylight, but most creeps try not to anyway. They can deal with some spooky stuff using their powers)
Werewolf (They deal with spirits well, spirits are as ever-present as ghosts. They also touch some other spooky stuff if they have to.)
Promethean (While they can't stay in one place for a long time, they can fight anyone's antagonists pretty well, and they naturally want to belong.)

Okay Compatibility:
Changeling (Nothing stopping them from working with people but their own paranoia. But they don't bring a lot to the table when it comes to fighting other people's problems)
Demon (While they could help anyone out, their problems are unique, and they scare too easy.)
Beast (Sure their powers are built to be compatible. But playing with one is like playing with a Kinder in DnD, why do that?)

Low Compability:
Mage (Wankers)
Mummy (Either they are in maximum big balls mode and they throw the balance off, or they aren't being played because who cares.)
Hunter (They want to help, and tier 2 Hunters CAN help. But if they are Tier 2, they are probably also looking to cut your head off first chance they get. They are built to not be compatible in that they want to murder everyone else on the list)

I forget anyone? I'm sure I did.

>>54794605
God Tier
>Archmage

Semi-God Tier
>True Fae
>Incarnate Beast

Overpowered Tier
>Prep Mage
>Loud Demon
>Fresh Mummy

Higher Tier
>Mage
>Sin-Eater w/Boneyard
>Demon
>Mummy
>Beast
>Sin-Eater
>Werewolf
>Changeling

Lower Tier
>Surprised Mage
>Promethean
>Vampire
>Prep Hunter
>Hunter

ftfy

>>54794592
Well, holy shit. How does a person spawn a ghost while still alive? You have like my total attention. Please tell me that if a person goes through a decent amount of drama in a small amount of time that the emotional stress will spawn that ghost.

>>54794636
The other person will be able to answer better.

But say, for instance, you die and get brought back in some way. Magic, vampire stuff, whatever. You can easily have a ghost of yourself running around.

>>54794636
Not him, but Death 5 allows you to create a ghost, and model if after a person if you want.

>>54794636
One of the few constants for Ghosts is that you need to be a dead man to make one. We really don't know much else. You've got ghosts who are basically fa/tg/uys - completely apathetic, happy to sit in one place and be ignored - and homicidal maniacs who froth at the mouth as soon as someone comes within sightline.

One game line has a small section reading "Ghosts are born of death, the remnants of humans who
have perished in sudden or traumatic fashion. Many ghosts are
shattered, insensate phantasms locked into an eternal replay of
their deaths, but others are spiteful terrors fully cogent of their
lifeless torment and eager to share their misery. Ghosts are
common wherever humanity is to be found, clinging to physical
Anchors of their former lives, but they are drawn through Irises
to the Underworld."

And that's it. Geist goes a bit further into it, but it basically says that if your life was incredibly shitty and you are *not* at peace with it, yeah, you'll leave some form of ghost as your soul vacates. Wether that's you, your soul or a ghost. But ghosts are the second most common supernatural entity in the world of dakrness, so god only knows there are probably some living varieties.

>>54794273
Still waiting for text saying spellcasting is concealed just because a mage doesnt use a rote mud rack or high speech, provide text to say its concealed and I'll let you away with it otherwise casting without rotes or high speech is still noticeable

What's your favourite variety of nwod blood sorcery? Why?

>>54794795
Magic isn't noticeable if the Mage wills it so.

It would defeat the purpose of coincidental magic if it wasn't.

>>54794147
Shouldn't that be *autistic counting*?

>>54794795
So the order of events is:
In Initiative Vampire wins(likely wins barring Time shit, that dice roll can still fuck ya) because Celerity, Vampire sees Mage doing weird hand signs and speaking in a fucking strange language. From there the Vampire using that information must decide whether to fucking jump the Mage or run like hell out of sight. Unless the Vampire has seen this shit before, he isn't likely to know exactly the effect of the Mage's hand dance but could still act on undead instinct.

>>54794836
>coincidental
the is no coincidental in awakening
failed argument
try again

I think I get it now. This is some sort of weird digital homeland for you. You just like it because it gives you a sense of belonging, community, even though it's through a screen. Like conversing with someone while wrapping in a doona. And when it's quiet, you start trolling. Anything to make it lively again. Fucking phoneposter.

>>54794795

>>54794836
The Mage could simply Will the magic, but it's often much weaker and unreliable. That dice pool is so fucking low. However considering that the Nimbus of a Mage flares whenever they perform strong magic, I wonder if the Vampire's own Predatory Aura wouldn't be irritated.

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>>54794795
>>54794893

>>54794259
Demon and Mummy aren't anymore crossover friendly. But since no one plays either we really don't get much shit posting about Demons curb stomping vampires and woofs.

>>54794831
Theban. I like Coils too, but I don't really consider them to be sorcery. Gilded Cage and cruac are also neat, but Theban is cooler.

>>54794795
It doesn't work like that. Supernal magic can be detected by mage sight, but otherwise you're shit outta luck. It's on you to prove that vampires have a mage sight equivalent that allows them to detect Supernal magic.

>>54794880
Mages are better in Initiative, assuming they're Acanthus or have an inkling of Time / Fate.

Most Mages aren't going to make their spellcasting obvious.

>>54794849
>"Two! Two entitled magefages! Ah ah ah!"

Count Count is still a Malk to me.

>>54794952
Brace yourself for more autistic screeching.

>>54794795
>Mages can cast spells in a single turn without making any outward sign.

Page 115 of Awakening 2E

>Magic is the act of transforming will to power. A mage needs no more than that, just the ability to think clearly enough to form an Imago is enough to work magic.

Page 119 of Awakening 2E

>>54794979
I'm buckling up as I type.

>>54794979
COWER FOOLS! MERASMUS IS HERE!

>>54794954
Well part of that is because Demon's balance is super weird.

Against normal mortals, Demons are OP. While I love Demon, I actually hate how much their powers read like GM fiat passed off to the players. It is annoying to ST, because Demons can just speed the plot along with so many powers that are just straight answers.

But outside of going loud, their other powers are sort of standard, last I looked.

And if the Demon goes Loud to fight say, a War form werewolf, the clock is ticking more for the Demon than the Werewolf. Because the Werewolf just gained new allies in the angels that are going to show up soon and wreck the Demon's whole life.

Going Loud is an awesome thing to show off when talking about the game, but the uses of it are narrow. If you have a player Go Loud and it isn't to A) Escape a terrible situation, B) really really wreck up stuff GM stuff or C) Take down the big bad because the fight isn't going to go their way... they have probably screwed up.

So bringing it up in a White Room situation isn't really genuine.

That said, I love Demon. I think it doesn't get talked about enough here, and I wish it was more popular.

>>54794990
Get out of here, it's not Halloween.

>>54794880
>In Initiative Vampire wins

But does he really? If anything, Mages hope you attack first on account of how Mage Armor functions. You waste your move and die.

>>54794970
Most Mages aren't Acanthus.
>Most Mages aren't going to make their spellcasting obvious.
Well that's the trade off, you're either covert and have a weaker/less reliable spell. Or your overt bring down the wrath of Supernal Angels because dear fucking god that Vampire has fangs! Yes there is a wide range of actions and responses between these two extremes, but that's why I don't like assuming things before I see it at the table.If a Vampire is paranoid or the Mage is stupid, it throws the equation way off what we expect.

>>54794998
Demon is boring as fuck and better off as a book or movie. Not to mention you can't even use all the good stuff because lol cover. Demon is like Ascension paradox level antifun

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>>54794998
>Going Loud
I have a gif for that!

>>54795016
>Most Mages aren't Acanthus.
1/5 of all Mages are. Now add in the other Mages that took Time or Fate as their third Ruling. Or just the ones with that decided to learn it for their own benefits.

No single Arcanum is uncommon.

>>54795016
You're really overblowing things here.

>>54795021
What tier would the Mask be in?

>>54795016
There is no fucking trade off. It's as covert as you want it to be. It all amounts to your creativity.

>>54795042
if anything he's underselling the mage autism

>>54795064
are you retarded?
>>54795016
>covert and have a weaker/less reliable spell. Or your overt bring down the wrath of Supernal

>>54795089
Gee, I think the retarded one here is you. You're labouring under the assumption that Mages have rainbow sparks shooting out from their fingertips.

A spell can be as powerful as it is covert.

>>54794457
So an archmage with questionable wisdom?

>>54795100
What are Yandras, and why would I ever use them?

>>54795089
>Wizard covertly brings down the empire state building, having all its beams shatter by sway of Fate / Matter shenanigans

Weaker and less reliable indeed.

>>54795116
Since when does using Yantras make a spell noticeable?

>>54795138
When you're literally using High Speech, or making a hand sign mantra, to focus the Imago making the spell more powerful and reliable. I'm not saying that you can't make a spell covert or that you absolutely need to do the weird song and dance. But if you aren't that powerful or that clever in the moment, the situation changes. There's a reason these tools are still in use in the present day, because they produce reliable results in spellcasting. This is why I don't like these white room arguments. The character of the mage and the vampire are often the things that throw off all these theories made in sanitized think tanks.

>>54795116
You mean a spell has less potency? That doesn't keep a covertly cast spell from being powerful, and of course you can allocate Reach to make the spell have Advanced Potency.

>>54794958
I like the 'opposite ends of the scale' thing that Cruac/Theban has going on with humanity. Merges is sort of neat.

Damn it feels good to be a Mage

>>54795190
White-room arguments are silly, yes.
Especially with Mages, because they always win.

Vampires are arguably the most likely to die(again) in white-room scenarios.
They're not the strongest splat, generally speaking.

Throw a Mage and a Vampire in a cage, the Vampire will die.

>>54795021
That would.. actually work really well. If you could convince your ST to leave off on the mechanical aspects of your demon form for that.

>>54795235
Nobody wins in a White room because the white room only exists in people's minds. And magefags can't into their splat ever being at disadvantage.

>>54795238
What if the Mask was something that gave a human the opposite of a Cover? Let them take on the guise of a Demon?

>>54795292
It's really hard to catch a mage at a disadvantage. It's not impossible, but contingencies are contingencies.

>>54795299
Our ST has the books, but I think there's a pact that gives mortals access to a demon's power. So it could work.

>>54794605
Here's a better and factual one

God tier
>Archmage

Semi-god tier
>Mage

Shit tier
>everything else

Lower than shit tier
>vampires

>>54795320
Okay, let's throw off Time-Fate off the table. How do you do contingency as Thursday, for example.

>>54795299
I once was working on a fan Hunter conspiracy that was like a spy agency (Archer, 007, Mission Impossible, whatever), and their Q was an angel that gave them weapons that were like Demon powers.

>>54795320
Okay, let's throw off Time-Fate off the table. How do you do contingency as Thyrsus, for example?

>>54795208
It's all moot anyway without using a rote mudra or high speech the mage is only doing like 3 bashing or 4 lethal or agg with mana with shit dice pools otherwise, not exactly spontaneous immolation in my book

>>54795208
Advanced potency does not do what you think it does anon

>>54795358
Have your body running at peak performance, all the time. Make yourself immune to toxins. Form hardened bone plates under your skin. Cast an indefinite spell over your body to give you Wolverine-tier regeneration. Create a fetish or two to gain the powers of spirits. Bind a familiar to you and scry through it using your powerful sympathetic connection. These are just off the top of my head.

>>54795407
Aren't most indefinite spells either a bad idea or impossible?

>>54795377
What constitutes a solid dice pool? How many?

>>54795407
Eh. Wolverine tier regeneration is going to need you to suffer a dicepool penalty of -22, so I think you're probably safe on that one. More if you want the other reachy-bits.

>>54795420

...No?

>>54795420
Getting an indefinite duration spell requires 2 reach, 1 mana and a -10 penalty to your dicepool, no matter what other things the spell needs.

>>54795320
The problem that most people seem to have when placing a Mage up with anyother splat, is that players have as so much flexibility to build their character. No two mages in a hundred has the same strengths, weaknesses, or abilities.
A Mage really strong against dealing with Demons or Spirits could just as easily be weak against really fast lightening throwing monsters. Until people get more specific with the type of character they put up, it's safe to assume they're just making shit up to fit the situation rather than putting fourth any kind of situation or premise to work with.

>>54795436
Yeah, like I said last thread. Every post, the hypothetical mage in a white room scenario gains a new arcana dot. People keep making up the best mage to answer a given scenario, because the mage in the scenario is never locked down. It makes the whole conversation pointless.

Honestly, if people aren't discussing a particular statted out mage, I'm just done replying to the wank.

>>54795436
>>54795468
Then why don't you assholes get more specific? If you ask how can a Thyrsus prepare, you're the ones leaving the scenario wide open to whatever a Thyrsus can do.

So if a Mage Awakened with Astral Adept and a dot of dream, would they be able to start learning properly from their Daimon - or at least enough to push them forward to the point they could learn alone - even if they were the rankest of Nameless, without a single possible tutor inside of 500 kilometres?

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>>54795468
You know what, have a drink on me, Anon. You have the right idea

>>54795107
He is way above an Archmage dumbass. Not to mention he doesn't give a fuvk about consensus or paradox

>>54795541
He's obviously a True Fae

>>54795565
Are you trying to start something?

>>54795502
>at least enough to push them forward to the point they could learn alone - even if they were the rankest of Nameless, without a single possible tutor inside of 500 kilometres?
They'd basically be reinventing the wheel at that point, but they'd learn because that's just what Mages are built to do. They'd be just as obsessed with mysteries as any other mage as well as hold some seriously strange and/or wrong views and conclusions for how stuff works. A Mystagogue might just find those views downright adorable.

>>54795583
Given the way magic 'works' and the way some legacies are supposed to view it, some of the views might not be so invalid. Mage is weird. There's a few core beliefs and then everything is in a big sack that might contain everything or nothing. Current edition especially reminds me of Lev Grossman's the Magicians, or possibly the Scholomance quest on AK.

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>>54795572
Near limitless and unknowable powers that are brought out due to the needs of the meta-narrative he exists in. I mean there's a case there to be made.

>>54795407
Indefinite spells are hard to cast. At low Gnosis, you can't hold too much of them. Not to mention that contigiencies you mention are perfectly countered by just about any other splat.

>>54795614
The Mask itself could also very well be the catalyst for an extremely powerful demon of Pride and Lust (from Inferno, not Descent)
I don't recall, is there an extensive mythology around the Mask ? Because the sin-demons get their powers from being named and having a mythology built for them by humans

>>54795407
majesty, lol. i now has a hulked out cutie ^,,^

>>54795565
Archmages are more powerful than True Fae though.

>>54795653
It's Loki's mask. Anyone wearing it has a pile of their personality traits magnified or patched over. And gains his power.

So Ipkis became a mischevious, mostly good hearted prankster despite the shitfight that was his life. Durian became a flat out demon. The dog started devouring people and pissing on things. You get the idea.

>>54795617
>perfectly countered by just about any other splat

Not really. Other Mages? For sure.

>>54795689
Damn, missed the part about baby level Gnosis. Try again some time.

Reminder that Demons have at least one power that can outright kill a number of people equal to the successes rolled.
No resistance. No contesting. No shielding.
One roll and you off an entire cabal.
:^)

>>54795806
Only works on sleepers dumbass

>>54795904
No it doesn't
Sorry magefag, you just got shot dead

Can Banishers be cured?

>>54795919
Not really. Their awakening can be undone, but never will be unless they're going for a threshold seeking. Weapon was a banisher for north of 45 years and still stayed one - if he could have been cured, he would have been.

>>54795918
I don't believe you

>>54795806
Which power is this?

>>54795940
So you can't make them like other mages? They'll always be sour apples?

>>54795806
That would only kill Extras.

>>54795950
>I don't have an argument
You going to cry? Tumbler fag?

>>54795918
>. A demon
can automatically sense whether Merciless Gunman would work;
if the demon risks exposure by using it or the opposition has
resources that the demon isn’t aware of (if they’re vampires,
for instance)

Change if they're a vampire with if they're a mage and you can go cuk yourself. Also down and dirty combat only.

>>54795962
Short of ST intervention/an imperial game, yeah.

>>54795984
Mages are the definition of has resources the demon isnt aware off!

Demon be gone, n shit up somewhere else.

>>54795984
Yeah, this makes sense. I know of no reasonable ST that would simply put Mages as nobodies you could mow down with Down and Dirty, unless your ST has a real hard on against Mages.

>>54796002
>>54795984
At least try to make it look like you're not responding to yourself.

>>54796015
Thought id clarify it for the stupid fags who would miss the obvious.

>>54796033
Ie (you)

>>54795984
Mages take lethal from firearms just like sleepers, while vampires take bashing
You just got shot ... again :^)

>>54795958
Merciless Gunman

>>54796056
Kinetic shield bitch. Please try harder.

>>54796056
Actually with death mage armor they dont.

>>54796056

2/10 bait

>>54796093
Are you the same fag that got kicked out of last week's game? Did you really think you were hot shit adding points to your sheet? Did you think the ST wouldn't notice? and the shouting crying begging. Jesus get your life together

>>54796080
Oh but the raw text doesn't say anything about the bullet actually having to touch you
You just die

>>54796171
Now this is just hilariously stupid. Do your characters also live without air, because no book mention they need air?

>>54796194
Huh... I'm actually not sure if Demons need air.

I guess covers have basic needs, but at once Demon's are complete masters over the actions of their bodies...

Naw, pretty sure they need air, they would have mentioned it otherwise.

So what's the deal with Dracula in Blood and Smoke? If you listen to the Brides of Dracula in Secrets of the Covenants, It sounds like he's just turned into a frothing madman with no higher consciousness. Like they're just poking him and squeezing until ideas for coils come out.

>>54795984
Fine than I'll issue the ultimatum that the mage must spell the word weather out loud and when they get it wrong they immediately turn into a pillar of salt.

>>54796194
The Demon is using the concept of the gun as a killing tool to rewrite reality and end a life using the supernal code of a gun
That's what hacking reality is like
You should know, since you're a mage ...
Point being : you die

>>54796236
We're already turning these magefags into pillars of salt

>>54795919
A better question would if you could *cure* the Mad.

>>54796252
Demons don't have access to Supernal magic. Your 'gun' issue was also debunked.

>>54796281
You can cure the Mad. But that's Imperial magic.

>>54796281
>debunked
In you head maybe ?
Stop being so bum-burgled and accept your defeat

>>54796306
Merciless Gunman can't be used on major Templates, my friend.

>>54796306
Great use of synonyms! Try some others next time, like queer, fag or chocolate thief!

Can Sleepers Awaken from seeing blatant displays of magic?

>>54796360
No

>>54796360
Nope, they just go insane.

>>54796323
It can if I say it can.
>>54796327
I prefer butt-pirate.

>>54796360
Only if a blank badge is using their final attainment, and it tends to result in a pack of fucking lunatics more than anything.

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>>54796327

How do Ascended Mages acquire Quintessence for their Imperial Spells? They can't leave the Supernal, so do they send their Ochemata instead? How do they bring it back to them?

>>54796632
Supernal realms aren't a place, you are not in them ever

This is crazy, but can a Kinfolk Mage have Personal Totem? And/or get benefit from it?

>>54796795
No. They might be able to form some sort of relationship with it and gain a reciprocal benefit, but mechanical benefits? They lose it on Awakening. The closest thing to a Supernatural with a totem is the Dead Wolves bloodline, and they're pretty fucked.

>>54796632
I don't think Supernal entities require Quintessence. Spawning Ochemata is an eight dot Practice, and Ascendants can crap out an infinite amount.

The Watchtowers even. An Awakening is an Imperial spell at its core.

>>54796632
>can't leave the Supernal
That's just a theory. Also, with Arcana 10 they can do whatever the fuck they want, as long as it doesn't break the Pax Arcanum.

>>54796821
Also, Imperial spells can create Quintessence.

>>54794293
>If you seriously thought balance was a focal point for the development of CofD, you thought wrong.

Well I'm so sorry that I thought the 2nd edition of NWoD would have the same design considerations as the 1st edition of it.

>>54794405
>The only reason why he got hired was because he was a fanatical mage the ascension fanboy and sucked off it's writer.

Dave was hired because he was a talented fan of WW books for some time, and has now written for every CofD gameline sans Hunter, and is the developer for both Mage and Deviant. I believe on MattMc (developer of Beast) has written more for CofD.

Dave mentioned that he was chosen as Mage 2e's developer because people were so impressed by his actual play threads. TPTB thought he was one of the few people who "got it" and had the ability to professionally express it in a fun and playable way.

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Dave's Wisdom of the Day

>Magic Batman

>>54796360
Yes, but it's so exceedingly rare that it's illegal anyway.

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>>54797481

>Kill The Batman

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>>54797876
Too busy snorting coke off a vampire stripper's ass

>>54796383
>It can if I say it can.
Well the book explicitly says that it does not instant kill during stand combat, only 8-Again, so enjoy your goofy homebrew.

>>54797390
Hello Dave

>>54798305
Only Dave would call another anon Dave

>>54798346
We're all Dave here.

>>54798370

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF1chLj1fro&list=RDJF1chLj1fro#t=8

>>54796213
>Huh... I'm actually not sure if Demons need air.
They need air under a Cover, otherwise it looks weird.

Without a Cover though, well, to quote a monster called Kevin: "Don't actually /need it/, as such, what did you have in mind?".

>>54796261
I think It would be funny if there was an Obrimos Matter Ruling Legacy that was dedicated to this.

Unfortunately the only ones who have gotten to the Final Attainment turned into beings of pure light instead, which wasn't quite what they were after.

>>54797876
We already know that Swole Jawa is a Life Ruling Moros Arrow, but what about the others?

Would the Cult of the Unwritten Book be a good example of a Scelesti group?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Unwritten_Book

>>54798370
Everyone's dead Dave.

>>54798546
Gay Egyptian Warlock is probably a warlock with a spirit based legacy.
Swole Jawa is probably an Obrimos Perfected Adept with a few dots in Death who spends his time fighting ghosts in the underworld. Thus the getup.
Grorious Nipponese Businessman is probably an Brother of the Demon Wind.
Elderly bald gentleman is some sort of cosplayer who broke in. Or an uncrowned king, I guess.

What is post-editing development?

Does anyone know if the Geist books on the mega folders are the original or the 1.1 version?
If they are the old one, does anyone have the updated version?

>>54798581
There's a dialogue between a scelestus and a regular mage somewhere where the scelestus says that "The Abyss doesn’t care if you deal in handshakes or rape. Minds break before the glory of the Beyond, and breaking minds opens the Lie-bound heart to that glory. It’s a means, not an end.".

So, yeah, but shift some of their motives a bit from "destroy the world because we want to". They look like they'd be a pretty serious group - probably the equivalent of a Scelestus Order. Especially with the resources given. Maybe requiring some sort of fate based legacy for induction, trying to replace the world with a new, abyssal destiny.

>>54794623
Best chart I've seen in a long time.

>>54798961
>Maybe requiring some sort of fate based legacy for induction, trying to replace the world with a new, abyssal destiny.
They probably used their version of Fate to write a copy of Nurnheim from their patron Annunaki into place in Germany. FW!Nurnheim was destroyed in 1945 by combined Pentacle and Seer action, but because the Cult got Nurnhiem into the timeline that means the agents from the Abyssal version can still stage attacks on the Fallen World.

>>54795235
Assuming the mage is one built for fighting. Mages obsessions are about the mysteries though, and if they're played right, a lot of them might not be combat focused at all. Especially if they're just PCs who are starting out as rank neophytes. In fact the ones going all out on the hurr durr I build myself so I can practice of shielding against every possible thing that can hurt me are the basement dwelling idiots because they've hamstrung themselves at doing what mages actually care about.

>>54799119
There you go. And the 'real' Nurnheim is some sort of abyssal emanation realm, with the Annunaki squatting in the centre like some great impossible tumor. People not doing things in the real world are resident in Nurnheim, with your induction into the legacy determining the districts you can enter. The further into the Legacy you're inducted, the closer you can get to the Annunaki until the sixth attainment where you're licking whatever passes for flesh on the thing and residing in some huge impossible mansion made of its destiny-flesh.

>>54796080
Not a spell.

>>54799195
Dude if I was a fucking mage in WoD and I knew about all the other splats and fucked up shit you better believe I would try to learn all the shielding practices

>>54796632
Ochemata is a terrible word. It sounds like a Mexican dessert treat.

>>54797876
Mages are not superheroes.

They are supervillians.

And all this shit is why I adhere to a strict supernatural segregation in my games. In some games, some supernatural types don't exist. It's just too much retardo to integrate everything.

>>54798614
But who is the sword? An paradox entity that has taken the form of an object from this reality, but because of the power of its reality warping nature, the mages around the table don't realize it's a sword that hops around, talking to them, joining in their anti-batman plans, perhaps even leading the group?

>>54799195
You... don't really understand how Mage works. Mages don't need to be "built for fighting" to be dangerous in combat. The ones who do, the ones who take combat based Legacies like Tamers of Fire or Brothers of the Demon Wind, are just that much more dangerous in a fight. In no way does being able to cast a two dot Shielding spell prevent you from being able to cast Knowing and Unveiling spells or use Mage Sight, or otherwise investigate. Why would it? And right out of character creation you can be a Disciple in one of your Ruling Arcanum, and you can even have Gnosis 3 if you really want it, as opposed to starting with Gnosis 1. Can you guess at what rank most people say Mage starts funking up crossover games?

>>54799378
>The ones who do
My bad, meant the ones who are.

>>54799196
>>54799119
What would work as a secondary arcanum? I'm thinking the primary one is all about 'patching in' pieces of the Nurnheim world-destiny, like a scrap book. Not complete pieces, but stuff like grave misfortune to represent that someone wouldn't exist in the 'new world'. So they're using that destiny line to bring them closer to what they'd be in the 'new world' - dead, or never having been born.

So for the secondary: Space, with the ability to 'skip' along the destiny line a bit, maybe go directly to Nurnheim instead of tracking down an iris? Matter, to better demolish the world for the Annunaki? Prime?

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>>54799368
So you're saying Doctor Swordopolis is actually a warlock who got stuffed into a sword at some point, like a lich?

>>54799451
No. A gulmoth that just for some goddamn reason looks like a tacky fantasy art sword.

>>54799378
take your meds, you are having a fit

>>54799451
>So you're saying Doctor Swordopolis is actually a warlock who got stuffed into a sword at some point, like a lich?

Makes sense.

Now, who's got the Armoire of Invincibility...?

>>54799426
>Prime?
I'd agree with Prime.

After all, Prime is a representation of the captial T Truth, and what better way to remove something than to make sure it was never True?

>>54799525
Alright. Well, for the primary attainment: I'm thinking, in order, quantum flux, warding gesture, grave misfortune, chaos mastery, Pariah. The first three with their reach to duration. One of those is one reach over, so I'm thinking they need to perform some sort of obeseince to the Annunaki of Nurnheim to start the duration off on the first two. At that point the effects are just constant, an effect of being immersed in that fate. Third one is trying to 'patch over' their fate. Fourth one is actively trying to replace them with their Nurnheim double, which might well not exist. Fifth, well, Pariah. Wicked abyssal fate, blah blah. Thoughts? Also thinking some minor physical changes for the people following the legacy. Something to indicate that they're really from a cold, stillborn destiny. Maybe just make them (and nurnheim) seem like something out of a silent film set in the eastern european winter?

>>54799195
>Assuming the mage is one built for fighting.

What mage isn't built for fighting given inherent abilities like Mage Armor or the vast versatility of the Arcana, particularly once a mage is at least a Disciple, something easily attainable, if not expected, at character creations.

Those mages who dedicate themselves to more martial Mysteries and pursuits, such as the Adamantine Arrow or legacies like the Perfected Adepts, are just that much more frightening.

Use the Dresden Files as a comparable point of reference. Most every mage of the White Council is more than capable of defending themselves and is perceived as a serious threat by other supernaturals, but the mere presence of Warden is often enough to make some supernaturals get the hell out of Dodge rather than incur their wrath. Those being capable of taking on a Warden are a threat to every local supernatural.

>>54799622
>Maybe just make them (and nurnheim) seem like something out of a silent film set in the eastern european winter?
This seems like it could work.

I think that, aside from a few select Agents (Fear the Sky, The Hoodmen, Whispering Jack, Dry Bachelors, Pale Policemen, the Bellmaster and the Archons) the rest of them are created in the Fallen World as byproducts of the Fourth Attainment of the Legacy attributed to the Cult.

What kind of comparison is there between CtD and CtL Changelings in terms of power level and endgame campaigns? I only have experience with CtL.

CtL changelings have cheap and versatile contracts made even cheaper to use with catches, pledges, tale crafting, entitlements, mantle, and other stuff. On top of that, their "resource" is very easy to obtain and recover. They can't really beat other supernaturals in a fair, straight-up fight, but they're really good at stacking the deck in their favor.

On the other hand, I hear from others that CtD changelings are kind of pushovers compared to the other WoD supernaturals, can't really throw their weight around much, and have a harder time replenishing their power once spent. Does CtD amount to playing otherkin larpers, or is there something to them worth playing for players who want to become badasses?

>>54795688
If you read the comics, it's a lot more sinister

>>54799857
How so?

>>54799845
Well, my quick-and-dirty, no fluff workup is that they perform some sort of destiny ritual to commune with the annunaki. As long as they've done that, they can channel the destiny of It for X duration, probably advanced:

1st: Quantum Flux, beneficial, on the mage. Secondary, a 'sense' of which way to go to find an easy access Iris to Nurnheim. As it goes up, they can choose which 'district' of Nurnheim it dumps them in - slummy exterior, glorious impossible interior.
2nd: Warding Gesture, on the mage, to represent their immersion in the destiny of Nurnheim, as well as cloak nimbus. Reach to duration for both, post ritual.
3rd: Grave misfortune on a target. Secondary attainment: Also afflicts them with one shot of Aetheric winds, with reach to destroy mana. If the target doesn't have mana, or the spell burns it out, it starts doing damage again. They get warm fuzzies from the Annunaki for feeding it.
4th: Chaos Mastery, 1 mana, aggravated damage from reach. Trying to 'patch in' their new destiny. With requisite prime, also hits them with Apocalypse, reach to fatesight. Shows the the impossible Nurnheim destiny, with the abyssal resonance treating them as though they were a sleeper.
5th: Pariah, reach to duration. WIth requisite prime, the target of Pariah also 'uses' Hallow Dance, suppressing, reach to instant/duration the moment they enter a Hallow, for the duration of Pariah. Any hallow. The legacy initiate then gets a bonus to regain mana on oblation pools within Nurnheim equal to the rating of the hallow.

Thoughts?

>>54799845
Couldn't quite work out how to do the fourth attainment creating them, unfortunately, so just focussed on 'patching over'. Maybe multiple varieties - everyone gets the same first benefit, but you've got people with prime, then others with spirit/life/mind who bring impossible beings into the Fallen world, etc.

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>>54799378
>>54799778

He understands things better than you do.

>>54800186
I don't understand what point you think you're making with that post.

>>54800328
FATHERS THRUSTING COCK!

>>54798581
This is the Dave reference I want.

>>54798581
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Unwritten_Book

Thats so fucking weird, i had never heard of them before but had the red word cult need to wait for a baby to be born with writing all over it in my game. Spooky.

>>54799225
Creative Thaum exists asshat.

Read this in another thread but works for Mage.

As a mage go up to a splat and say "Would you like some help and for me to make you a magical sword?", when they agree turn them into a sword, they wont get their withstand because they agreed.

>>54800186

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mage-the-awakening/1052047-the-view-from-the-ground-a-sleepwalker-s-perspective?p=1052658#post1052658

>>54800553
The Morrison run of Doom Patrol was pretty out there.

You had things like Orqwith, a Parallel Parasite universe inhabited by creatures called Scissormen who cut people out of reality and spoke in collective rhymes.

And the Brotherhood of Dada, which is the closest thing to a Scelestus Cabal in the whole run.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Dada

>>54800186

That hypothetical Time 2, Fate 2, Prime 1 Acanthus might not be the "most broken thing in the CofD," but that newbie, straight out of character generation, mage is more than capable of defending himself against other major splats, no less regular humans. It doesn't matter if he needs to fight a vampire, werewolf or changeling, he'll still more than likely ruin their day.

Notably, as that same character advances and spends experience on Arcana, Gnosis and supernatural merits, his power level will almost certainly increase at a much steeper rate than other supernaturals with comparable experience.

An experienced mage "optimized" for combat (whatever that really entails given the versatility of the Arcana), should be a terrifying threat to a member of any other splat.

>>54800956
That Acanthus is actually weaker than a char gen Mage. They get six dots to put in Arcana, not five.

>>54800986
increase time or fate, probably fate to 3 and that'll sort it.

>>54799900
Not him, but you remember the mechanics who get mufflers stuck up their asses?
In the comics, they get mufflers stuck so far up their asses their heads go muffler shaped and they die super dead.
In the comics, the mask turns people into less "zany cartoon hero" and more "zany homicidal cartoon agent of chaos".

>>54800888
The Dadas are fucking fantastic.
First Doom Patrol story I read, and I loved it.

>>54801131
Actually that anon misquoted. The Acanthus already has Fate 3, and then Prime 1 and Time 1 in Dave's post. I would say increase Time to 2. Then they can reflexively activate Time Mage Armor and be Neo from the Matrix.

>>54801588
You still only allocated five points. 2 in Fate, 2 in Time, 1 in Prime.

>>54799329
I have vampires, werewolfs, mages and hunters. I dislike demons, prometheans and changelings both add a unique dimension (and I prefer my games to be mage-centered), and geists are just unique Possessed.

>>54801825
gtfo you otherkin faggot

>>54801846
You seem to be mistaken - I am not fan of the Beast.

>>54801572
And, if you think about it, they'd make perfect sense as a bunch of Mage Antagonists.

Probably not all at once though, there are some that could work as members of said Scelesti Cabal (Mr Nobody, Agent !, Fog, Sleepwalk and Love Glove), and others that could work as more general encounters (Frenzy, Alias, Sleepwalk, The Quiz and Number None) and The Toy would work well as an NPC for an investigation.

>>54801957
...Why did I put Sleepwalk in my post twice?

Hello /wog i am running a forsaken 2nd game and one of my players wants to craft a fetish that is silver chain to capture and restrain a pure werewolf.

What level of fetish could acomplish that?

>>54801995
>What level of fetish could acomplish that?
A "holding hands." level fetish of course!

>>54801957
So Mage = supers

>>54802061
From what I know of it, Doom Patrol is more in line with old pulp weird sci-fi and horror comics than classic superhero stuff. I could be wrong, though. Not an expert.

>>54802061
Not quite what I was going for.

I was just trying to explain ways to use the Brotherhood of Dada in a Mage game.

Alias the Blur, for example could be Time 5 (Unmaking) Living Spell, or it could be a creature from a world in the Lower Depths without Time.

>>54800888
I forget which issue, but early Hellblazer has a great mystery play where Constantine becomes a glorious beach mutant. Work well for a banisher awakening, Thyrus.
>>54800956
I know you're tolling, but have you even read the book?

>>54802243
>I forget which issue, but early Hellblazer has a great mystery play where Constantine becomes a glorious beach mutant. Work well for a banisher awakening, Thyrus.
Speaking of John, where is the afore-mentioned Mastigos on the Wisdom scale?

Favorite Hunter compact and conspiracy, aaaaaand go!

My favorite Compact is the Barrett Commission. Because among game concepts, nothing says 'you're in for a good time' like playing a bunch of lobbyists protecting the big wigs of the world from vampire lawyers. Like, the concept is so ridiculous, but at once answers the completely normal question of 'why aren't creeps controlling XYZ?'

There are heroes who don't wear capes, they wear suits.

My favorite conspiracy is VASCU. But that's mostly because I can't get enough of shows like Criminal Minds and Law & Order. So having a hunter group that is like that + psychis is perfect. If I could play a VASCU game, I would at the drop of a hat.

>>54801995
You'd want a Talen for that rather than a Fetish. fetishes tend to be flat bonuses. One from a spirit with an Influence related to binding. I'd say a 4 dot, for 'create'. Failing that 'Binding' influence, an elemental earth influence to forcibly bury them to the muzzle.
>>54802301
I haven't read all the hellblazer books; they're sitting in my big pile. But I'd say he sits above 5. He routinely does things that would drop him, but he's obviously got an Obsession of "increase wisdom" going and tries to act like a reasonable human being. So when he accidentally forcefeeds a baby soul to demons, he's doing decent things on the side to help mitigate it.

>>54802348
Conspiracy: The Malleus - partially the religious thing, but mostly the idea of the local priest breaking out a warhammer and murdering your ghoul neighbour during a sunday sermon on "Casting the first stone" for trying to catch/eat the postman.

Compact: the Illuminated Brotherhood. It's hippie scooby doo. Who doesn't love the idea of a pile of hippies stoned out of their fucking brains trying to scoobie doo their way through an encounter with a spirit of murder?

>>54802356

I hadnt though about an earth spirit, thanks mate. I dont think he will want to use a talen because of their 1 charge thing.

Having to negotiate each time seems like a hassle.

So i am thinking of the moral choice being a rank 4 earth spirit and the amoral choice being a rank 2 pain spirit to boost the pain of the silver chain like that fetish from night horrors to temp him to loose harmony

>>54802356
>I haven't read all the hellblazer books; they're sitting in my big pile. But I'd say he sits above 5. He routinely does things that would drop him, but he's obviously got an Obsession of "increase wisdom" going and tries to act like a reasonable human being. So when he accidentally forcefeeds a baby soul to demons, he's doing decent things on the side to help mitigate it.
I like talking about the more "niche" comic stuff in relation to the World of Darkness...like Earth-33 of the New 52!

It's clearly an Annunaki, not just because of the concepts of Anti-Life and Anti-Death, but also because it's home to the Empty Hand and its servants.

I think it would be pretty obvious that this Universe was stillborn because it's Subtle and Gross Arcana were subject to the Supernal equivalent of putting the batteries in backwards (it has the Gross Arcana of Spirit, Death, Fate, Prime and Mind, and the Subtle Arcana of Matter, Forces, Life, Time and Space.)

>Hear about Doom Patrol.
>Think it looks cool
>Go to favorite dubiously legal comic website
>Oh sweet it has Doom Patrol.
>Literally every page is corrupted and doesn't work
>FuckMyLife.jpg.png

>>54802348

>hunter lobbyists protecting corrupt execs

Nice. Especially when the PCs realize that the corporate schmuck they are protecting works for another Vamp and they decide too burn down the whole rotten structure. Needless to say Bernie Sanders is a reocurring NPC that helps them.

>>54802348
>'why aren't creeps controlling XYZ?'
I always thought what Seers do just what. And Mammon rising above Hegemony exactly because controlling the corps starts to pay off more than controlling the government.

>>54802787
I'm not sure if Sandman counts as 'niche', but I quite like it for most things. The brief look we get at hell works alright for Inferno. Death as a rank 6 psychopomp from the Astral? Sure, there are some ways for dream spirits to get physical. You get the idea.

>>54802900
Yeah, like most Hunter stuff there is no way there isn't just another man behind the curtain every time you win. But that's why the vigil is about that candle against the darkness. The hunters realize the world is screwed as time goes on, and eventually they will either lose, realize they have been the demons, or worse.

But in the meantime, they will try. Because that's just what humanity does.

>>54802937
Seers, Elders, Pure, the rivals from the big three love to be large and in charge.

The Barrett Commission is vampire focused probably because Seers are more subtle about what they do (though mostly because they are from a Vampire hunting splat). But in the end you have to imagine they deal with all three if they run into them.

>>54802953
Or the dudes they protect are actually worse. I mean a Vamp at the very least would try to maintain a style that allows for continued high population density. A normal exec might fuck up stuff even
even more than a Vamp.

>>54803025
I honestly think this kind of Campaign would work best with Vamps. Seers are to abstract and OP.

>>54803025
I don't think that Elders or Pure can be a competition to Seers. Mainly because capabilities of elder mages are just greater than capabilities of elder vampires by an order of magnitude. Or several.

>>54802243
>I know you're tolling, but have you even read the book?

Are you seriously suggesting an Acanthus with Fate 3, Time 2, Prime 1, lacks the ability to readily defend himself in combat with other template supernaturals (or given his Arcana spread, avoid such combat entirely)?

>>54803092
As an antagonist in a campaign, they can just be as strong as necessary. You can just use the Witch powers given in the witch hunting book too.

Plus, not all Seers are that powerful. They have help from Exarchs in the form of this and that, but they are mostly just mages working for dickbags that give them gifts.

>>54803071
Well yeah. But that's part of the Hunter crisis isn't it? Like, do you protect the dirtbag exec just because he isn't a monster?

Sure the vampire runs a tight ship and makes sure his employees are paid well so there are no problems... but he is dead, he is inhuman, he MUST be destroyed.

Better the devil you know, or whatever.

>>54803110
Well, given that you originally said Fate 2, yes, yes I was. Fate 3? Yes. At best, he could toss shared fate on someone and hope it wasn't withstood, or that the other person wasn't more durable than he is.

>>54803160
>just mages
That's more than enough.

>>54803160
>mages
>help from Exarchs
>Not that powerful

What???

>>54803187
>At best, he could toss shared fate on someone and hope it wasn't withstood,

As you earlier suggested, it might be a good idea to read the rules. Fate 3 and Time 2 are more than capable of offering a defense to a mage, including Mage Armors from both Arcana. The most obvious defense available for these particular Arcana is avoiding the threat entirely.

>>54803228
Give me something direct, not just "lol read". Fate doesn't give a direct way for this mage to avoid their fight. Time 1 offers the chance for divination - but that can't account for deliberate attempts to avoid someone.

>>54803187
The anon misquoted Dave, who stated the hypothetical Acanthus as having Fate 3, Time 1, and Prime 1 here >>54800186

It's also been noted that this Acanthus is weaker than a Mage you can have right out of character creation, with only five dots in Arcana instead of the given six. Even so Divination is still a Time 1 spell the Acanthus can cast as much as they want.

>>54803346
Sure. You popped that in above. It still can't let them avoid something forever, and the answers are limited to yes/no. Even with reach, it's limited to a single sentence.

>>54803372
>It still can't let them avoid something forever,
They won't have to. The other side of the fence has denounced these sterile white room discussions, so let's take into account extenuating circumstances. And let's just call this Acanthus Timmy, for the sake of simplicity and since the poor guy always seems to be on track to meet with a terrible fate.

Timmy is an Acanthus, with Time and Fate as Ruling Arcana. He can cast spells from his Path as many times as his heart desires for no mana, including Divination. And in keeping with the rules, let's bump him up to Time 2 so he has the full six dots for any starting character.

This means he has one free Reach for Time 1 spells, if I'm not mistaken. And since he is of course in his Sanctum going through his morning routine, he doesn't need to allocate it to instant casting. He can ritually cast it using any and all Yantras he may have, receiving a number of answers equal to the spell's potency. The descriptor of the spell doesn't say the Reach only gives him ONE more specific answer, so he gets a sentence answer for any specific questions he may feel like asking with the questions available to him. Given his ironically awful luck, he looks for danger, and how and why it's coming his way.

And he finds it. Turns out something dangerous is out for Timmy's blood. He knocked over its motorcycle at the bar the other night. So now Timmy has to choose what he'll do. He can stay in the safety of his Sanctum, call up his Cabalmates and pool their strength, using Divination to get the drop on this thing, or he can even go a step beyond and call up his Mentor for a favor, getting a much more experienced Mage on their side. Good thing Timmy's player took that merit, huh?

>>54803729
If you just want to move the goalposts, okay. I don't want to talk about it anymore. You win! Congratulations! I subscribe to your point of view!

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>>54803778
>be broad and discuss only what any mage could potentially do with magic
>people whine about it being too vague, muh gnosis 9 mage with all arcana at 10
>try to be more specific and take more factors into account for the scenario
>get yelled at for 'moving goalposts'
I tried.

>>54794234
because each splat gives us good templates to use for Npcs. this allows you to make the world deeper without having to homebrew every single monster again.

>>54803907
I mean, good on you.

I just can't even remember what you two are talking about, and I guess I just didn't care?

Was this the 'mage thrown in a cage' one?

I guess this line of conversation is just too boring to attach to.

>>54804064
That's alright, I understand. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you can find a discussion somewhere that you're interested in.

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MAGE'S are invinsible and invunarable. It is stupid and pointless to try and argue a battel aginst them.

>>54804149
That seems like a really cumbersome way to be carrying things. Guy should look into double items, or a pouch imbued with Secret Room. Or a backpack. Backpacks are dead useful.

>>54804116
Anon, discussions are shit when it is assumed that everything within the possible umbrella of a splat is on hand, all the time, with no chance of failure (and without the ST laying the almighty "No" on things that stretch boundaries).
Mage arguments treat things that CAN happen as things that WILL happen. It's the same problem as 3.5 caster theories that fail on practical face, every time.
I wouldn't give a shit if the functionally useless mage conversation did not outright dominate this thread, and I honestly wish the entire thing would spin off into it's own circlejerk.

>>54804149
This is why I would play a Mage like Seekers from Huntik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyaU4PlM1KY

Though I'm not sure if a Titan would be a Ghost, Spirit or Goetic Demon.

>>54803160
True thats the Hunters dilemma I guess. But I mean on the really large scale a Vamp is interested in Stasis and a well developed Humanity. Even for a Hunter cooperation with these beings might be the best solution.

>>54804420
I'm sorry you feel that way.

>>54804474
A monster could poop rainbows and subsist by eating away people's bad dreams so they are never unhappy.

Cooperation with them is never the solution.

Hunters are the ultimate HFY.

>>54803729
The only problem with that approach is that ritual casting on Gnosis 1-2 takes 3 hours, which is hardly "daily routine". It is far better to take Time 3 instead of Fate 3 and enjoy your 3 free Reach for Divination (and having Shifting Sands).
Otherwise, this is the way to play Acanthus.

>>54804502
The autists apology.
I will point to this thread, and the many before, as proof that Mage is cancer because it destroys all semblance of reasonable discussion, and drowns out other splats.
I wonder truly how similar to 3.5 the situation is, like with all the talk about Mage, few of the people who prompt it actually play it.

>>54804563
And those who play it find out fast that whiterooming and actual play is entirely different things.

>>54804563
I'm sorry you feel this way. But hey, at least you have the benefit of actually playing games, right? You can discuss whatever you like with your group.

>>54804522
Too bad hunters are weak as shit and even leeches can mop the floor with them. Heroes are what hunters should have been

>>54804615
If you could control your autism, you might actually have a group yourself.
>>54804585
That applies to everything.
What is first contact?

>>54804522

>Cooperation is never the solution

Have fun getting assraped by Monsters. Why not working together in a situation of mutual benefit.

>>54804669
At this point engaging the magefags is pointless. Imho most of them don't even have a group and being autistic here is the only way for them to experience the game.

If ego-maniacal, narcissistic, paranoid and obsessive mages can work together constructively in a cabal, surely regular humans can to fight horrible monsters.

>>54804744

Mage is a game where the pc's are designed and intended to fight cosmic level threats. Mage 2e was explicitly not designed with consideration of game balance among the other lines as a priority.

Isn't really so shocking that even inexperienced mages might be able to handle themselves around splats designed for more street-level play?

>>54794262
>all splats irrationally love Beast

>>54804716
Because the moment you give a vampire an inch, they take a mile.

You might not like that executive who fights to lower wages, and doesn't give benefits.

But the other guy is literally an undead blood sucker who has only lived as long as they have by draining the essence of human of beings. They have probably directly killed countless people, and would kill many more to continue their endless unlife.

The fatcat just wants more money. That's just the American dream. Never trust a vampire, not even if they promise the world.

>>54804803
I am not complaining about that.

''''''Somehow'''''' mage discussion always ends up in pointless dick Measuring and cancerrous magefagging though.

>>54804669
I've had groups before, and I know better than to argue like this with people I actually know as opposed to numbered posts on the internet I'm liable to never encounter or know I've encountered. The reason why I don't have a group right now is because I recently moved. And I hate to go against whatever preconceived notion you have of me, but while I like Mage, it's hardly the only game I play, or have played. I got into these games through Bloodlines a little while after it came out, and Vampire was the only game I played or was interested in for a long time. Would it also shock you to learn that I don't always play magicians in other games?

I suggest you make sure your hands are clean before you go pointing fingers. You aren't exactly making any helpful or substantial contributions to the thread either, throwing 'autism' around like it's your word of the week to someone who isn't even arguing with you or being hostile in anyway.

>>54804823
Imagine all the ways they could have made that mechanic just work as a fluffy thing. Like, if Beasts were known as helpful, known to help fight against bigger problems because it messes up their meals. But other creeps trust them because they don't fight over the same resources... that would be something.

But instead it was just penciled in. 'Hey, everyone likes you for some reason. They see you and instead of hating you, they are like 'hey here comes a nice guy'.

wtf

>>54804744
You mean like the 3.5/PF threads?
>>54804803
Y'know, I heard the same excuses in CWoD for all the math not making sense, some choices being absurdly broken and game warping and others being broken and functionally useless RAW and RAI.
Sorry, man, it doesn't fly, and those cosmic level threats don't game into play until you break the PS 5 cap every game I have seen that made it somewhere has.

>>54804823
>Demon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yGfQak-q9M

>>54795345
Mage Armor is now reflexive.

>>54804845
I hope you realize how hypocritical you're being.

>>54804874
Mage Armor is hardly a contigency. Most of them even aren't that useful.

>>54804856
Amusingly enough, one of my closest friends has autism, and you type exactly like him and carry the same "I am objectively correct and anyone who disagrees is wrong" smug mindset.
I'm not calling you autistic because it's an internet insult, I'm calling you that because you are acting exactly as I expect an autistic person to act.
Shit, look at Touhoufag's posts one day, yours are just like his.
Further, this thread is autosaging, and my contribution, if I could, would be to wipe the 200 posts of mage nonsense that took over the thread.

>>54804839

>Just making money

That includes the ugliest things you can imagine. A Vamp would probably hestitate to do things that fuck up the environment long term because he will 'live' too see the consequences. A fatcat won't.

>>54804926
I think the problem is that they don't stack.

>>54804929
>"I am objectively correct and anyone who disagrees is wrong"
Where are you even getting this from?

>>54804894
Nah my man. I stopped enganging in magefag hate. I just tried helping a fellow wod Player.

>>54804946
What? The vampire is dead. He doesn't care if there is smog, or you can't see the sunrise at the beach.

>>54804929
>200 posts of mage nonsense
Hey, 5% of that Mage Nonsense was actually constructive!

Like the stuff on on converting major Doom Patrol enemies for the World of Darkness.

>>54804845
Because what passes for trolling here is fags from other splats making baseless claims about Mage without having even read the books.

>>54805009
And then of course more whining when sources are given.

>>54804992

>A Vampire doesn't care if the ecological basis for his ONLY source of nourishment is destroyed.

>>54805009
My man if your first instinct is blaming the other side instead of admitting that your side is guilty too that shows enough.

>>54804961
Autists frequently can not understand different points of view other than their own on a psychological level.
An argument that counters an autist's personal thinking is assumed wrong unless you exhaustively disprove even the most erroneous logic.
Shit like
>I'm sorry you feel that way
is an autist's apology, their arrogance and belief they are right making them unable to actually mean it genuinely.

>>54805087
I think you're attributing a lot of kindness to vampires that just doesn't exist.

Like, a vampire could have a bunch of humans wears rags in a nuclear bunker, kept alive with doomsday rations for decades.

Outside of like your Ventrue, a vampire's prey doesn't need to be happy. They just need to be alive.

In that way, the fact that humans are like cockroaches, and will find SOME way to survive, means they don't really have to care about the environment. Humans may not survive the erosion of the environment in a happy way, but they will still be here.

Plus an elder vampire (like the sort that the Commission is probably worried about) is so old that he is probably an ultra-conservative, and thinks global warming is a myth.

>>54805139
I said that because it is how you feel, isn't it? Unless you're going to try to sell your opinions to me as fact. I also genuinely meant it, and I was trying to be polite and not argue against your opinions, which you are entitled to. Just like I'm entitled to mine. I also realize that my opinions aren't superior to or more valid than yours. I was literally emphasizing with you, because as I said Mage isn't the only game I play and I can understand how it can be frustrating not for other splats to get much discussion in favor of one you don't even play.

What more do you want from me, asshole? You sound like you just want me to say "You're right, I'm wrong", and calling me an autist because I won't.

>>54805315
My opinion is that mage discussion objectively hurts the WoD threads, subsumes the topic and pushes out discussion of other splats.
You feel otherwise?

>>54805394
We got in some good Hunter discussion this thread. I just hid all the argument stuff, and this thread wasn't as bad as usual.

>>54805442
All 189 posts of it?
The only non mage discussion was the blurb about hunter and the earlier discussion about ghosts.

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I can't wait till the crossover chronicle nerfs the shit out of fucking mages.

>>54805394
>You feel otherwise?
Yes. Not Mage discussion per se, but rather shitposting. It's not only magefags who do it, you know? We have faggots arguing completely irrelevant politics yelling /pol/ and tumblr, vampfags making ridiculous claims like one did last night, werefags raging because they can't claw everything to death. And of course, posters like you, who in such a mind-boggling display of hypocrisy perpetuate cancer while simultaneously decrying it.

>man you guys aren't mages the worst? they totally ruin these threads
>let's keep posting about how awful they are, that'll fix things

Brilliant. Very mature. Do magefags shitpost? Yes. Do they shitpost more than anyone else? Recently, they actually don't, unless you count all Mage discussion as shitposting and any other splatfag shitposting as discussion, in which case you're suffering from a very heavy bias and I'll refer you back to your own definition of autism.

Grow the fuck up. I find it very hard to believe you even have a group, being the incredibly whiny and insufferable cunt that you are. You're as cancerous as any magefag.

>>54805476
I'm desperate for anything I can get. This is honestly the only thread I still go to on /tg/ besides the character art thread.

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>>54805563
What's wrong with the Star Wars thread? Hate Space opera or something?

>>54805544
>I'm 4chan
no shit dude

>>54805579
I love Star Wars.
I don't know enough about Star Wars to interact there. Like, I know some stuff from the games, from the movies and cartoons, a few comics. But I don't read the novels, so I'm that annoying guy in the corner going 'MEMBER WOOKIES?!' while everyone is discussing Chiss superiority fighter designs.

>>54805168
>nuclear bunker
I had a ghoul who bunkered down in an animal shelter. Never left the building. He ate the strays they brought in and the junk food from the vending machine. He showered where they groomed the pets. If you need a nuclear bunker, you're trying too hard

>Black Dog is back
>Black Dog is back specifically as an OGL for fan-submitted extreme content for oWoD

This can't go wrong, ever.

>>54805315
>What more do you want from me, asshole? You sound like you just want me to say "You're right, I'm wrong", and calling me an autist because I won't.
Have you been on 4chan before? that's all we do

>>54805664
>This can't go wrong, ever.
...I'll fetch the custard,

>>54805006
>95% is shit posting
way to strive for mediocre guys

>>54805717
Man, give us some credit!
5% relevant content isn't mediocre, it's abject failure!

>>54805746
It doesn't help that most Mage Players are of average intelligence, some of them even slightly below!

>>54798045
You don't understand.
Mages are mooks.

>>54805776
mages are mortal after all

>>54805769
Well superhero comics always go for the most common denominator

>>54805168

>a Vamp could just live in a nuclear bunker

Niqqa Why the fuck would a vamp accept a world without comfort? The world that would result would be riddled with food insecurity (for the Vamp too) and devoid of comfort.

>>54805769
>>54805832
How is this retarded shit allowed?