/wfg/ - Warhammer Fantasy General: Making New Friends edition

Where are the female giants?

>>54716704
Around, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to see them.

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>>54716704
Not portrayed because titanic saggy tits aren't amenable to general sale.

Does Fantasy have any stringed instruments that are readily available? I'm making a 40K Ork Klan that is focused around rokin' and moshin', kinda based of Goff Rocka's only on a much larger scale, and I'd like to work on a fantasy counterpart.

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>>54716813

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How do dwarf grudges work exactly? Do they they always have to end in violence, or can there be paid a tithe to settle the grudge with the dwarfs?
Also, does anybody have some good dwarf art?

>>54715652
literally fake news

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>>54716867
Depends on the grudge. Sometimes you can pay an old debt, other times you can do a favour. Some grudges can only be settled in blood, however.

>>54716867
There are definitely examples of Dwarfs demanding monetary compensation in the lore but the costs are typically astronomical.

>wychelf
>wardancer
>shadow warrior
Can you survive the foursome?

>>54716927
I die well.

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>>54716927
I hate what you all have done to me

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>>54716927
I pinch.

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>>54716927
I WILL TRY.

>>54716594

Agreed, they have good comedic potential. I just wish writers would use them for something other than stale "musk of fear" jokes.

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>>54716704

>>54717097
>Squeekskratch resisted the urge to squirt the musk of fear

Not sure which was worse in the G&F books - that in the early ones or Ulrika in the later ones.

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>>54716670
>your screenshot becomes a OP image on a completely different board
That's new.

>>54717190
it was a good screenshot.

>be bretonnian peasant and lose limb for lord
>get a single copper coin he immediately takes back for taxes
>happy
>be empire peasant
>get paid for my work
>can travel around
>unhappy
Chivalry wins again.

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>>54717230

>>54717344
bane will never be serious again.

>>54717344
>those dubs

>>54717358
He was always a large man in a funny mask. /tv/ didn't help much though.

>>54717344
>those dubs.

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>>54717097
https://www.scribd.com/document/320490990/Krask

Unsurprisingly it was in my history.

plz dont bully

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>>54717349

Yeah I might aswell do that:


If anyone's interested regarding the success of me trying out a large unit of forsaken (which I jammered on about a couple of threads ago) I played a game today with my WoC vs Empire.

It went much better than expected and allthough I lost the game (fucking Watchtower am I right?) I pretty much massacred his army. My Forsaken, with the assistance of a Chariot of Nurgle, was quite helpful and took out a decent block of Greatswords in two rounds. The real champion of my army was however my Chaos Lord. Armed with the Hellfire Sword he pretty much singlehandedly took out a Steamtank which he followed up by putting some real hurt to a unit of 10 Knights of the Inner Circle and a block of 40 Halberdier men.

Here's the armylist I was using:

++ Standard (Warriors of Chaos - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.8.0.) [2498pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

- Army Size: Army (0-2999 points)

+ Lords +

Chaos Sorcerer Lord [379pts]: Barded Chaos Steed, Lore of Nurgle, Mark of Nurgle, Wizard Level 4
. Magic Items: BRB - Charmed Shield, BRB - Dispel Scroll, BRB - Talisman of Preservation

Chaos Lord [384pts]: Barded Chaos Steed, Mark of Nurgle, Shield
. Chaos Mutations & Powers: Flaming Breath, Soul Feeder
. Magic Items: AB - Hellfire Sword, BRB - Talisman of Endurance

+ Heroes +

Exalted Hero [217pts]: Barded Chaos Steed, Battle Standard Bearer, Halberd, Mark of Nurgle
. Magic Items: AB - Helm of Many Eyes, BRB - Dawnstone

+ Core +

Chaos Chariot [125pts]: Mark of Nurgle

Chaos Chariot [125pts]: Mark of Nurgle

Chaos Warhounds [30pts]: 5x Chaos Warhound

Chaos Warhounds [30pts]: 5x Chaos Warhound

Forsaken [378pts]
. 18x Forsaken: 18x Forsaken of Slaanesh

+ Special +

Chaos Trolls [210pts]: 6x Chaos Troll

Chimera [275pts]: Flaming Breath, Regenerating Flesh

Chaos Knights [345pts]: Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer
. 7x Chaos Knight: 7x Ensorcelled weapons, 7x Mark of Nurgle

++ Total: [2498pts] ++

How cheesy would you consider it?

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>>54716850
>getting curious and listening to Viol music

So good.

>>54716927
No, but I don't need to. I'll die well.

>>54717358
He used to be a straight up super-luchador.

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>>54717344

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>>54716670
That is not Durthu UNACCEPTABLE!

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>>54717358

>>54717393
>>54717652
the fact that he was played by a manlet and the plane scene will forever be a part of human heritage.

>>54717793
It was impressive how they managed to have every single shot have something wrong with it.
That takes a special kind of skill.

>>54717733
Genuinely took a moment to make sure this wasn't Loss.

>>54717290
The bretonnian peasant is happy with their lot because, for them, there exists no other lots and the very possibility of such is as foreign to them as willingly and happily fucking a human is to an elf.

The empire peasant, as you said, gets paid and can travel around. As such, they are made keenly aware of the fact that they are at the bottom of the shitpile.

Ignorance truly is bliss.

>>54717915
It's kind of scary if you think about it, even if I think GW never really thought too deeply about it. It's got a North Korea-esque feel to it, only if North Koreans were actually happy.

>>54717915
>willingly and happily fucking a human
Well there was that one time.
Actually it seems more bretonnian peasants are raised to knighthood than elves treat human like people. Let alone fuck them.

>>54717915
>>54717953
In general, Bretonnia is also safer, has better weather, and has more fertile land. Even with many lords being shit, Bretonnian peasants do alright.

>>54718007
Not to mention all their magic shotas get kidnapped by fairies for /ss/ with elves.
Oh wait that's a negative point, kidnapping children.

>>54717733
look at that smug beastman

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>>54718007
Bretonnia to me is in a weird spot where I'm not sure if it's amazingly, completely fucked up but still somehow working, or a relative paradise despite everything around it fucking up.

I think that's part of why so many people like it - for all the ways that it's backwards and cruel and wrong, you can point out a lot of ways that it's good or kind or awesome.

>>54717978
Is Kerilian an Asrai weirdo for treating Kruber and Sienna as almost equals?

>>54718036
I dunno, having an elf keeping me as a sex pet seems like a pretty good deal, even if I am eventually sacrificed to bring their gay furry king out of his winter slumber.

>>54718122
Yes. Humans aren't people, they're just dumb oafs that breed fast and can get in the way of danger.

>>54718167
do they actually sacrifice magical shotas?

>>54718193
They sacrifice adult males, there just also happens to be a bunch of little boys who live forever in Athel Loren.

>>54718193
What else would they do? They're too slow and weak to provide enough fun to hunt.

>>54718111
I think it's important to note that Bretonnians are not stupid, and will circumvent the rules of chivalry shamelessly. The 'no cannons save but over water' rule? Put a bucket under the gun. The 'no mercenaries' rule? Hire 'shepherds' to watch a single sheep, 'lose' money in the paymaster's tent. Women want to fight? You fool, that's no woman, I've known Ser Renault all my life.

I imagine even the tax burden varies greatly. A lord is entitled to nine-tenths, but it seems likely that a smart lord would "generously" gift back a large portion of "his" right.

>>54718122
Yes, but especially for saying Bardin would be welcome to visit Athel Loren and apparently meaning it. That is absurdly rare.

>>54716867
You can pay off grudges but very few go for them. I don't even know if the writers remember you can pay gold instead of blood.

>>54718193
I don't think it's ever actually made clear. It's hinted in End Times that males kidnapped are used as servants, and there's another bit of lore where apparently they're made into Grail Knights larping as Silver Helms, at the Lady of the Lake's beck and call. The sacrificial idea is new to me, and I don't think I've seen it hinted at in any lore, but I wouldn't be surprised by it.

Probably fair to say that it's a mix of all three, because there's probably been generations upon generations of boys to work with, and the silvery Grail Knights are implied to have been kept around for hundreds of years, and the servants could easily also be so with how Athel Loren can fuck with time, so even if a lot are sacrificed you wouldn't have to lose out on the other two.

>>54718193
Truth is, we don't know, hence the jokes. They might be used for breeding stock (for Bretonnian humans, not elves), they might be used in the ritual to awaken Orion (Asrai are dickish enough for that), hell, the 'sex pet' gag might even be true.

>>54718007
>>54718111
Never forget that Bretonnia enjoys the full backing of one of the most active and present gods around. That's not a small thing to have and the Lady isn't at all miserly with her gifts and blessings. One must earn them, as is only right, but they exist and seem to be both potent and reliable.

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>>54716670
Will Araby look like pic related?

>>54718248
Lady schbitchface. Just cover her land in fire and at worse she'll be upset because you broke her toy.

>>54718289
Quite likely. Just needs a sign that says "SETTRA, WE DIDN'T DO IT" on their borders.

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>>54718289
Needs more slaves.
Araby is skaven tier in its needs for slaves.

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>>54718222
That kind of rule-bending shit because reality doesn't always fit with the rules always gets me hard as fuck when I see it in a setting, and it's a really good thing to have to help explain any apparent stupidity. It still sucks that you can't get mercenaries for the Brets on the tabletop, but I guess that's a sacrifice you have to make.

As far as taxes, I know that sometimes lords will allow Herrimaults to steal back a portion of the taxes, or the villagers will manage it themselves and claim outlaws stole it - the lords will chase the outlaws. And I know that if a lord is in debt, a rich merchant will 'gift' him a trinket of some value as part of some festival, which will quietly be returned to the merchant and regifted another year. Or something like that. I can't find the lore on it offhand, and it seems like a confusing scenario to my mind.

>>54718122
>>54718192
A lot of people love their dogs fiercely, others adore their cats or dote on their horses. But going so far as to treat them like people, real, actual people, is a step too far for the vast majority of us and those who do so are invariably seen as weirdos. Fucking them is unthinkable for nearly everyone even if we know some sick fucks go around doing it.

>>54718248
Myrmidia actually teaches people how to fix their own shit.
Winning battles through superior planning and firepower >>>> elf wankery.

>>54718289
That looks like Ind if anything.

>>54718289
>obvious hindu gods
No.

>>54717915
Actually, the peasants of Quenelles are known for traveling, at least within the Duchy. They encourage children to grow up in one village, get married and move to another village, then finally wind up in another village for their forage. They're not exactly worldly, but they're not going to think the world ends outside their village, either.

>>54718443
Dogs and cats don't have their own civilisation and aren't sapient. Plus love doesn't always have to be sexual in nature.

>>54718451
Yeah, that's definitely Ind.

>>54718417
There are even Grail Knights who pose as Herrimaults so that they can go after politically powerful lords that are corrupt, or worse.

>>54718480
>Dogs and cats don't have their own civilisation and aren't sapient
To an elf the same can be said of humans.

Qucik. Redpill me on Asrai. Are they really fuked up or are they having a great time with hunting human children, fighting beastmen and chilling in Athel Loren?

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>>54718469
Okay

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>>54718289
Kushan is an indo-greek kingdom, so maybe, if you cut out some of the indian stuff.

Araby is in a bit of a weird place in the warhammer world. It's nowhere near Ind and it's also nowhere near Kislev, despite the Middle East having cultural ties to both Russia and India.

>>54718537
>chilling
But yeah they have it good. Except when hordes of undead, beastmen, or orcs come by.

>>54718222
>The 'no cannons save but over water' rule?

Doesn't exist.

>>54718528
Only if they're ignorant of the definition of civilization.

>>54718528
No, it really can't.

>>54718528
>to an elf
yeah. the high elf cuck that got shot down with his dragons and his forces crushed by the empire sure felt glad that he hadn't lost to sapient foes.
>>54718554
>indo-greek-steppenigger culture
>cut out the biggest cultural component.

>>54718590
>caring about the inferior human version of what they consider culture

>>54718634
Well, it'd be pretty fucking weird if Araby was Indian themed despite Ind existing.

>>54718634
>the high elf cuck that got shot down with his dragons and his forces crushed by the empire
Where was this?
I want to read it.

>>54718676
That's exactly the point. There IS a culture. Elves may consider it inferior, but to deny its existence would be inane. Cats and dogs do not have sapience or a culture.

>>54718683
They'd have closer ties to Cathay (China) because of their constant trade.
Maybe some of their culture and tech rubbed off.

>>54718528
Come on anon, there's only so far that people can possibly imagine sapience above or below them. Elves aren't really on that higher a plane of existence than humans, not in the same way that humans are above dogs.

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Can any Dwarf rival pic related's beard?

>>54718634
Just as I'm sure the hunter that found himself being eaten by a tiger felt glad he hadn't lost to sapient foes. The reality of things is utterly irrelevant because the only thing that matters to the elves is what the elves believe about the matter.

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>>54718748
Challengin' a dawi's beard? That's a grudgin'.

>>54718715
>There IS a culture
No there isn't, it's just humans.

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>>54718676
>elves don't have floppy hats, giant codpieces and artillery.
>call others uncultured.
Reminder that artillery adds dignity to your battles.

>>54718554
They're obviously Al-Andalusian, or Moors. Ummayads, Almoravads, whatever you want them to be - they were distinct enough from the rest of the Islamic world for most of their history, and the latter group came from the native people rather than from Arabic outsiders.

So imagine that the Arabyans got bits of Tomb Kings culture, and then the Tomb Kings seem to completely collapse and turn into a horrible undead land. You still have some of their ideas about study and higher culture, but they're no longer culturally dominant so you develop your own traditions, such as something vague about a One God that was probably just reverence for a past ruler that got kicked up a notch.

You know, you could just cite some sources on how elves view humans. Just saying.

>>54718766
Only the difference is that the elves lost to an organized and effective military. You cannot have that without civilisation which again requires sapience.

>>54718771
Oh yeah, harvesting crops, art, and education all just happen naturally.

Typical ignorant elf.

>>54718821
>eating grass
>smearing shit on the wall
>howling like monkeys
You have as much culture as an annoying cow.

>>54718791
>bowl cut
>cultured
Empire confirmed for trash plebs

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>>54716927
I'd die

but I'd probably enjoy it still

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>>54718770
With a big enough hat, Ganishka can make a great Chaos Dorf.

>>54718846
>>54718846
I bet the elves were doing the howling when they got outgunned by a battery of nuln great cannons.

>>54718862
you have to go back over the other side of the grey mountains breton

>>54718865
Just get all three pregnant and you're good.

>>54718806
Elves could be aware of all of this and still find humans and their civilization vastly inferior to theirs while viewing the idea of fucking them as disgusting deviance done by sick individuals.

>muh guns
That's some high tier autism.

>>54718795
Some of the early background specifically mentions that they're the equivalent of the Ottoman Turks. Then again, that is really old background.

I wouldn't mind if they were a bit Berber/Tuareg inspired, although it's obvious they have some proper Arabic and Persian influences too.

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>>54718903
at which point the entire comparison to cats and dogs falls apart.

>>54718907
More like long ranged autism. five centuries of carefully practiced bowcraft isn't a match for heavy artillery.

>>54718918
ottomans you say.

>>54718907
Don't forget the rockets, those are important too. And the mortars and cannons.

>>54718907
The Old Ones made the mortal races. The Nuln Gunnery School made them equal.

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>>54716670
Still waiting for Tomb Kings.

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Oh no! In the biased army book of [race] they BTFO [other race]! How will [other race] ever recover?

>>54718941
>at which point the entire comparison to cats and dogs falls apart.
It wasn't perfect by far, but it does prove that we are more than capable of loving and caring deeply for things that are not us, *without* treating them like us in any fashion, believing them our equals in any way or wanting to constantly fuck them. This is possible and in no way needs elves to view humans anywhere near the same as they view themselves.

>>54719064
>>Settra is unrecruitable because he does not serve even the click of a mouse

>>54718987
Equality is a fraud, especially in warhammer.

>>54718846
Man, elf scientists really suck at keeping up with the times. No wonder elf society is so backwards.

>>54719155
Most hit on 4's and wound on 4's.
Pretty equal.

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>>54719209
Comes with the territory when your magic is so advanced that you don't really need scientific breakthroughs every few years. Also doesn't help that you live on a paradise island.

>>54719086
Except that if cats and dogs had any kind of sapience and society, however crude, there would be no moral imperative against fucking them.

No one is saying elves need to view humans as equals, just that its impossible to compare them to animals because sapience is a thing that exists.

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>>54719251
>Comes with the territory when your magic is so advanced that you don't really need scientific breakthroughs every few years. Also doesn't help that you live on a paradise island.

>>54719251
Which would work great as an explanation if elves weren't actively engaged in trading with humans, warring with humans (both against them and as allies), instructing at their universities, and basically participating on human civilization at a fundamental level.

>>54719251
It's not even like elves are too dumb to grasp gunpowder. It's a conscious decision to not use it. All their other arms are still beyond human capabilities.

>>54719280
>someone compares high elves with the empire
>bringing up lizardmen
Literally why.

>>54718289
Araby is one part ARABIAN NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHTS, with all the exaggerated opulence, and one part real Arabs, with all the piracy, mendaciousness, warmongering, and slaving.

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>>54719302
None of which actually prevents them from not needing a huge technological advantage, at least things like gunpowder or steam. They trade for things they don't have and for wealth, they do just fine in war and are basically a race-wide militia, teach magical techniques and theory to less knowledgeable humans.

There's also the thing about how elves perceive time differently than humans. Men are right in the middle when it comes to lifespans and need to work ten times harder to achieve something. Part of the reason why the become necromancers or are converted into vampires. An elf just doesn't need to make a steam powered mill wheel because there's magic that does it better. The human has to innovate with the short amount of time he has.

>>54719363
>>Common Knowledge: Araby
>>Araby is a land where the people will cut off your nose if they don't like your face.

>>54719251
>paradise
>there are lions there that eat elves

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>>54719395
It's barbaric, but hey - it's home.

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>>54719479
But pet lions.

>>54718692
Empire armybook 6th ed

>>54719395
you mean that elves are technologically stunted on a fundamental level. The last siege weapon they had was gifted to them by dwarfs. Elves in general are ill equipped to even siege things like an imperial fortress, let alone a dwarf karak.

>>54719395
None of that has anything to do with the original topic, though. Which was "Elves see Humans like Humans see cats and dogs."

>cathay: empire
>nippon: half-elf kurgan descendants
>khuresh: not!greece
>ind: chaos warriors, held at bay by khuresh and the monks in the mountains

>>54719539
I suppose that's one way to put it. But there are ways around fortifications, like magic and dragons. Karaks are fucking impossible to assault unless you've got hundreds of thousands of bodies to throw at it constantly.

>>54719560
See >>54719209
That's what I was responding to. The comparison between animals and humans is retarded. As little as elves respect humans, they still recognize they have civilization and culture. Until a cat or a dog composes a song or ponders the nature of the universe then this topic just doesn't work.

>>54719630
More like:
>Nippon: basically bretonnia with canno s
>Cathay: basically human horde army

>>54719648
Dragons are rare.
Magic is prone to SCHEMES.
>>54719630
>ind is full of chaos warriors
what? then how do elves trade with them? what about the fancy red metal?

>>54719718
Headcanon based on what an anon gave as an idea many threads ago.
And of the beastmen help them they can't be too wholesome.

>>54719648
Magic means shit against dwarfs and we know what happens when dragons meet artillery.

Come to think of it elves are royally fucked whenever they don't fight in open fields

>>54719743
>And of the beastmen help them they can't be too wholesome.

We know literally nothing about the cat-men. Not all men who are beasts are beastmen, after all. See the lizards, hell, see Orion. I think the presence or absence of horns would be the big hint.

>>54719743
depends on what you mean by beastmen. If you have tribes of stable humanoid creatures like chimpanzees they wouldn't really be beastmen.

>>54719800
orion is horned...

>>54719807
>Orion is the horned rat

>>54719755
Magic still works against dwarfs even though they are resistant to it, and one dragon being shot down by a battery(!) of cannon doesn't mean dragons instantly die when there's a gun around. Fighting outside of an open field isn't ideal but they can still do it. They had tunnel fights during the War of the Beard and won a fair share of them.

>>54719648
Both of those were me. I was just being facetious to the memeing retard claiming that elves don't think that humans have civilization, however primitive by their standards.

>>54717506
>https://www.scribd.com/document/320490990/Krask

Thanks for sharing. Of course the story needs polishing but the basic premise has potential even if it is only half-serious. I'm thinking of stuff like the skaven guy gathering random bits of information about humans from his discussions with the old man and trying more or less successfully to make sense of them.

>>54719968
I've been meaning to make a second part, this time while sober. Maybe.

And yes, that's the basic idea. He's getting all this information but views it through the lens of a ratman. I like to think that when the time comes for the Skaven to raze the town Krask tips off the old man so he can escape.

>>54720019
I'd be interested in reading that if you find the inspiration to finish it. Is there someplace where you upload your stuff or do you just post it in the threads?

>>54719094
>player drops a crab leg on the floor
>kneels to pick it up
>game has uninstalled itself

>>54719360
Pretty sure that description applies to Lizardmen just as much a HElves.

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>>54720113
I generally post it in these threads. I've done some writefagging in the past with varying degrees of success to the point where some people ask if it's from one of the army books so I have to tell them I made it up. Other times it's passable.

Now that I'm getting some decent amount of sleep I've started writing again for my WFRP campaign, so a bit of sidetracking couldn't hurt if I have the time for it.

>>54719807
he also regularly chimps out like a beastman, too

>>54720163
Thanks. I'm sure you've already considered it but it could be a good idea to consolidate your writings in a pastebin account or some other place. These threads get archived pretty fast and it's easy to miss good stuff unless you check them every day.

>>54718918
I admit, I'm mostly going off of their geo-location, so it may not be a fair comparison. But their shattered state might work well with some of the early Fatamid states, or the later fortress-monestaries before the Almoravids. Either way, probably won't be explored too deeply beyond vague Middle East.

>>54719067
Why were Nordlanders involved?

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>>54720268
I've been meaning to find something more permanent to keep my writings, especially after I lost the progress of a novel I was writing about the Crusade Against Araby when my laptop fried.

>>54720300
Marienburg used to be a Nordland city at one point. There's no date for this event so I can only assume it was during the time that a Nordlander was in control.

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Anyone backing Bones 4? Their Archaon is your only chance to get a non-shit Archaon now.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-bones-4-mr-bones-epic-adventure/description

>>54719324
Think about it this way - gundpowder is still rather crude yet. Empire Mortars still have a chance of blowing up, and Dwarf work is, well, Dwarfish. What the High Elves use works fantastically for them, and I can't see them using gundpowder until it's at a 19th or 20th century level - the point where, like the Chinese around the same time, they can no longer ignore it and its effects on warfare.

>>54720324
I'm pretty sure a basic pastebin account is free. In any case, let us know if you do decide to create a profile somewhere.

>>54720324
Really? I thought Marienburg had its own rulership up til Magnus' time.

What races and classes are available in WFRP?

>>54720477
Again, I can't be sure what year this is around so it could be before the Directorate or after it. If there are Nordland troops there then it's definitely before they seceded, that's all I can be sure of.

>>54720477
I think he's wrong anyway. The Wasteland used to be the Westerland from what I remember, and Marienburg was its capital.

>>54720507
https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!JVw20QKC

Pick up Career Compendium. It has all of the non-Chaos and non-Skaven careers. The races in the core game are Humans, Elves, Dwarfs and Halflings. There are fan rules for playing Ogres and some of the books have special rules for playing non Old Worlders.

>>54720518
Westerland wasn't a Grand Province, which Nordland is. Never had it's own Elector Count or Runefang. There's a reason why the Grand Baron of Nordland, whoever that may be, can't set foot in Marienburg under pain of death.

>>54720567

>tfw can't make most terrible character idea: Archaon Kenshiro

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>>54720585
Tome of Corruption has careers so you can play as a Chaos champion. You can even become a Daemon Prince, but at that point the GM should really whisk your character away and use them as an NPC in another campaign.

>>54720567
I know Nordland has a claim to Marienburg, and the Elector Count has 'Prince of Marienburg' as one of his titles. Maybe they were in an alliance with the old Marienburg noble line.

>>54720567
I wish we had a slightly better timeline of the Empire's political history.
For example, Sylvania has been both an independent province and part of Stirland at different times. And I believe that Ostermark was at one point subordinate to Talabecland.
Carroburg was part of Reikland and at some other time it was the capital of Middenland as technically the city-states (Middenheim, Talabecland and Nuln) are NOT part of their province but might as well be because they have the same ruler.

I blame the retcons after WFRP 1e. The political system is quite substantially different in that, and more interesting, I think. The city-states get their own electoral votes for instance.

>>54720721
Don't forget that the Empire has had a long civil war in its history - areas were awarded provincial status to help garner support, or conquered to keep under control - or broke away when someone wanted to put forth their own Emperor.

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>>54720769
Such an interesting time. When the votes don't go your way, just declare yourself Emperor and issue coins and decrees. Give you and your allies grandiose titles to one-up your neighbours.

>>54720810
It's something I wish could be recreated in Total Warhammer - but most other states, particularly those not on my side, will get killed off by Norscans, WoC, or rarely Brets.

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>>54720769
Yeah, and I like the quirkiness. If anything I think it's been dumbed down a little bit in latter editions.

>>54720610

Wisecracking daemon weapon?

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>>54720868
It could have worked like in Knights of Honor, where if you declare yourself Emperor of Europe and the other 10 most powerful nations do not accept you they all declare war. Empire has offices, so if you could play the other provinces and move your leader from 'Elector Count' to the 'Emperor' slot, you run the risk of pissing off the rest of the Empire.

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>>54720915
You can get a sword with a daemon bound to it, so quite possible. Or just one that's really pissed at you and swears that it will one day break free and ravage your mortal form.

>>54720915
>Sorry to CUT and run, but we've got to SPLIT WAKKA WAKKA

>>54721039

One liners and puns everywhere.

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>>54716670
Endhammer

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Endhammer

>>54718471
That should also make them the least inbred peasants in brettonia too.

>>54718111
I actually ended up turning Bretonnia into Toussaint from Witcher III in my home game, if only because it takes the same sort of chivalric fairytale aesthetic without making it unnecessarily grimdark or too overly idealistic and the technology level doesn't require nearly as much bullshit handwaving to explain away.

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>>54721440
Personally I take the "nine tenths" taxation law as a guide, something that lords are allowed to do in times of strife to build up a proper war chest. Most lords do not do this, though some corrupt ones will take advantage of it.

>>54721480

Climatic cinematic final battle. Skeleton extra playing an armored foot knight is having so much fun that he decides to force a cut and reset by looking directly at the director's camera with the cheekiest expression he can possibly muster.

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>>54721576
>>Said extra was later fired but remarked that, despite being blacklisted, it was totally worth it.

>>54721620

Also the extra in the bottom left broke character.

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>>54719630
Cathay, when an army was kitbashed for a White Dwarf article, was actually based off of the Bretonnians.

Could easily make sense considering China had a lot of essentially peasant levies and relied more on overall strategy than skilled soldiers.

>>54721834
What type of cavalry did the Chinese have historically?

>>54721834
I remember that. There was an army showcase on the GW website before it was turned into a catalogue.

>>54720893
I'm still a little jealous of it, as a Bretonnian fan. The Empire has a long, detailed history, civil wars, and strong identities to its provinces, and what does Bretonnia have? Twelve battles at its earliest history, some Erranty Wars against foreign foes, and a brief fight against Mousilion a couple of times. Even with the bits of personality given to its duchies, there's still a strong sense of overall Bretonnian patriotism.

I don't really understand why GW didn't make their history a little rougher for them. It's not like real-world France was united half the time or even most of the time, even when you ignore English influence.

>>54721870
I would imagine that Bretonnia has been fairly united due to the fact that their Goddess is real and to the large sense of loyalty of the peasants

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>>54721870
Bretonnia is like the Canada of the setting. There are a lot more well known races and nations, and Bretonnia is just kinda there. I think the strongest aspect is the uniting force of the cult of the Lady. Imagine Europe if the Pope had complete and legally binding control over the various princes. The Fey Enchantress can do whatever she pleases and it's law. The King can do whatever he wishes but he's still subject to her whims. Dukedom acting up? Boom, excommunicated and now has the rest of the country raising arms against it.

The Empire is, unsurprisingly, an empire made up of different ethnic groups who hold the human pantheon in different standings. Each of them revere Sigmar in one way or another, but the cult of Sigmar is more dominant in the political landscape than it is in the religious one. Ulric has more sway in the north, Taal in Talabecland. Myrmidia is gaining sway in the south. Bretonnians worship the same pantheon, minus Sigmar, but the main religion is unquestionably the Lady.

And as >>54721939 mentions, she takes a very active role in the lives of her subjects. Maybe not the peasants who tend to venerate Taal and Rhya, as well as Shallya, a bit more because it's practical, but everyone worships the Lady and cannot deny her influence on the entire nation.

>>54721870
The problem is that Bretonnia only got nailed down in fifth edition while Warhammer was in its cartoony phase.
And then the sixth edition version gritted it up appropriately and that was the last big thing that ever happened to Bretonnia.

In a way, retcons are quite useful for political history because it means someone has to come along later and reconcile the two versions. Which is pretty much how the Solland thing happened.

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>>54721939
>>54721998
I'm not arguing that's not so - in fact, that's probably why Bretonnia has patriotic feelings and a strong dare I say nationalistic identity anyway - but it can be a little boring compared to the Empire. The Lady has a much stronger presence than Sigmar does in most of the Empire, but while that is obviously a strength, it can be hampering when trying to justify anything like a civil war or a question of succession. We don't even know why a few kings were deposed, or why it seems like some things messed up at all.

I don't know, I know that this is probably something that a lot of people like about Bretonnia, and it's not like anyone complains that the Dwarves, various flavors of Elves, and Tomb Kings rarely ever (if at all) had civil wars or such things. But it can end up very boring if Bretonnia has always been united and no outside force has managed to seriously threaten its existence, with its big brother the Empire taking a much more prominent role in the fight against Chaos and various Greenskin Waaaghs! There's little deeper to Bretonnia beyond what you initially get - chivalry and medieval stuff - and nothing deeper like what you can wrangle out of the Empire to give them more depth and a little creativity in designing a unique army.

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>>54722046
That is another good point, and maybe the Brets would have been helped out if they had gotten some of the lore changes that had been made in 7th and 8th. It would be hard to dislike a deeper look at Bretonnia's history with some more depth, even if it seemed to go against its overall themes of unity. Or maybe people would have hated those like they hate the changes to Dark Elves or the introduction of demigryphs, I don't know.

I just feel like more could have been done, more should have been done, and Bretonnia didn't deserve the lack of attention it got. It was never the unsalvagable idea that it feels like GW eventually wrote it off as. Only Chaos Dwarves suffered more.

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>>54721998
first of all never ever compare bretonnia to can*da again. second of all estalia is the country your describe. its huge as fuck and is just never mentioned or does anything

>>54722174

Isn't Estalia Spana though?

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>>54722090
I feel like it's writing an idea so sound that it backs you into a corner. Having the requirement that all Kings must be Grail Knights means that you'll always have a sound leader who can fight with the best of them, but also means you can't have a corrupt one who leads to story conflict. It also brings up the issue that while the Fey Enchantress can relieve a king of his duties, she doesn't need to have his own knights strip him of his honour and give him the boot. Grail Knights swear a vow that supersedes even that they give to the King. She could simply say "Get out of the chair" and he'd leave. Unless said king was just a proxy? But that wouldn't make sense.

Personally I think that Bretonnia should have taken on more of its magical side to break up the unity of its nationality. Bretonnia came from one tribe, so they're separate but still similar. It really needed something to set the various dukedoms apart aside from the personalities of their first Dukes.

>>54722174
I'm from Canada and I've noticed that we're largely forgotten in media. Both nations have proven themselves but still toil in obscurity beside their more famous neighbour.

>>54722149
If the addition of the Cytharai are an indication of what lore Bretonnia could have been introduced to, I think it might be a good thing it only got a 6th edition book.

>>54722205
>Isn't Estalia Spana though?
his post had nothing to do with the culture of the country you fucking idiot. do you think canada has knights?

>>54721862
All types really. Depended on the dynasty too.

Cataphracts, light cavalry, medium cavalry, horse arches.

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>>54722212
>I'm from Canada and I've noticed that we're largely forgotten in media

its because you literally dont matter. do canadians not realize this? you have no military, no population, no good land. you just nuthug americas northern border

>>54722205
>Isn't Estalia Spana though?

and canada is going to be cathay in a decade

>>54722224

Yes, but only up to 1919.

I'm trying to see if I'm remembering this correctly but didn't 8th edition have allies?
Because googling it only gives me 40k, even when I put -40k in the search.

So if the Border Princes united into a stable nation, how well would they fare? What would their culture likely be?

>>54722331
Fantasy Poland/Hungary .

>>54722283
>>no good land
Anyway....

>>54722331
If it survived ten minutes after their first king died? It'd likely be a mishmash of cultures with Byzantine politics. It would probably take a century or two for them to develop a culture of their own, if they were free of influence from other nations.

>>54722308
real knights asshat

>>54722331
>What would their culture likely be?

american

>>54722331
Very divided considering it's a bunch of independent city states vying for control.
Lots of pork barrel economics, and competition. And backstabbings.

>>54721862
If we're talking about Ming China, as far as I can understand (with very cursory knowledge) they relied mainly on large amounts of infantry and archers, professional volunteers. They didn't seem to make a distinction between mounted infantry and cavalry, and used tactics like having two groups, one of cavalry and one of mounted infantry, charging together and having the infantry support the cavalry proper, with the cavalry softening up the enemy with various ranged missiles. There was also repeated charges if there were several groups of cavalry, and using light cavalry for raids against Mongols.

But generally, as far as I understand, it was the early Qing dynasty who would really make good use of cavalry, the Manchu being really close to Mongols.

>>54722174
Estalia is a bunch of city states - in fact, six of them - Novareno, Bilbali, Obregon, Avila, Magritta, and Cantonia. And these kingdoms all fight among each other and their neighbors and with the odd Orc invasion or Vampire fuckaround or pirate attack. What do you think they're going to do in that sort of situation?

I really hate when people bring up Estalia like it's some big empire that doesn't do shit - that would be like complaining that Tilea isn't refounding Rome.

>>54722331

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

>>54722331
It'd be weird for them to unite, since most Border Princes are from different cultures and very independent...I imagine they'd form some sort of confederacy or loose alliance of sorts, like some of the German states after the medieval HRE collapsed, or perhaps the successor states to the Byzantine Empire that still loosely cooperated against larger threats.

If you had to force them all into one united country, I'd probably say something like the Austro-Hungarian Empire and how all those various ethnic groups were uncomfortably squished together under one group's overall rule.

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>>54722380
>I really hate when people bring up Estalia like it's some big empire that doesn't do shit - that would be like complaining that Tilea isn't refounding Rome.

whats with you dumb niggers? cant you read? the posts have nothing to do with the culture of the country. it was about how much attention they got from GW and in lore, which is almost zero

>>54722430

>5-1

>>54722430
>that image
Really out of date considering we're getting fucking Norsca.

>>54722430
It's more the 'does anything' part that bothers me. There were anons a while back who insisted Estalia was going to end up like a fantasy Spanish Empire.

>>54722465
Warriors of chaos.

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>>54722465
I would be disappointed if there will be no Kislev, there is virtually no Ivan Terrible Russia represented in fantasy.

>>54722465
Maybe they'll get rolled into another faction, like the Fimir?

>But the Fimir never had their own army book!

They at least had different units and their own leaders. As far as I can tell, with Norsca it'll just be Fimir.

I wouldn't be too surprised if they got worked into an Ogres DLC. Not outright in the same army, but the Ogres could conquer the Chaos Dwarf lands and use them and Hobgoblins as auxillaries, or the Chaos Dwarves could take Ogres as slaves or hire Maneaters.

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>>54721480
I'm not even sure what you're talking about actually.
I meant the feel and look of Bretonnia, rather then finding some random in-universe way to justify it. Truth be told I rarely ever use settings or games without houseruling and reworking them just a LITTLE, so changing Bretonnia into a very similar but visually upgraded setting that keeps the general themes without the multiple editions of corporate bullshit, retcons, and various forms of writer favoritism or dislike GW slathered on there appealed to me.

>>54721862
Pretty much any kind you can think of.
They had more horse archers then Europe (horse archery is a quintessentially Oriental form of warfare, practiced by seemingly ever culture west of Greece in large numbers), but they had heavy and light cavalry too.

>>54722531
That would mean little roster, CA shown they want to make Forge World models.

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>>54722476
While not a terrible idea, the Empire thing that is, I found the cult of Myrmidia being turned into an oppressive regime retarded and even a bit insulting, because Spanish Inquisition. It makes sense in the Empire that the cult of Sigmar can take things in the extreme to fight Chaos, but Myrmidia? She's literally a warrior scientist. Take what works and use it. Doesn't work? Fix it. She's not a god for fanatics.

>>54722545
It's part of the Peasant's Vow. They must pay 9/10s of their earnings to their lord. I understand the need to update them, and I feel that Bretonnia should at least be around a War of the Roses level of technology, I just felt that the tax law, as written, is too grimdark to be believable. It should be a last resort and nothing more unless someone wants to exploit the law as it was written centuries before.

Toussaint was comfy as fuck.

>>54722545
I haven't played Witcher, so for all I know I'd love Toussaint and desperately want Bretonnia to be that, but to me, replacing Bretonnia with it is just that - saying that you don't like Bretonnia and putting something else in its place, instead of trying to work with Bretonnia and its lore. I've seen people do the same thing with High Rock in TES. I get that they're all similar and perhaps a little hackneyed, but it's still going 'I don't want that, I want this.'

Okay guys, I think I might be retarded. How the fuck do multiple attacks work in 2e WFRP? The book says you can only make one attack action per round, but then you have careers like Witch Hunter that add 2 to their attack stat. Is the book referring to regular classes and just forgot about certain careers getting extra attacks?

>>54718007
>Even with many lords being shit, Bretonnian peasants do alright.

Aren't they canonically miserable, filthy, malnourished pathetic wretches? Or are Bret fags salty about those novels that show how shitty their Knight lords are?

>>54722614
>It's part of the Peasant's Vow. They must pay 9/10s of their earnings to their lord.
Ah. Yeah, your economy basically not existing because your money moves only between two places and usually takes the form of food WOULD leave your economy stunted.
>I understand the need to update them, and I feel that Bretonnia should at least be around a War of the Roses level of technology
At least.
>I just felt that the tax law, as written, is too grimdark to be believable. It should be a last resort and nothing more unless someone wants to exploit the law as it was written centuries before.
Yeah, I'm one of those guys who doesn't care too much about that sort of thing.
Not because it's not interesting, but because it's not useful for adventures and not useful for GMing and not useful for players and nobody really cares about it except guys like us.
My worries are more along the lines of "is this too stupid" and "does this fit thematically" and "is this useful for adventures". I'm a practical guy.
>Toussaint was comfy as fuck.
I love how it encouraged knighthood and knights by turning knights-errant into a self-motivating monster-hunting bandit-killing wandering police force that you could muster in times of war without needing to keep too much track of them.

I also liked how knighthood wasn't based off of some ridiculous samurai-style restrictive social caste thing when even in real life it wasn't that strict about it.

>>54722795
>I also liked how knighthood wasn't based off of some ridiculous samurai-style restrictive social caste thing when even in real life it wasn't that strict about it.
This is part of why I hate the 6th ed codex. 5th ed Brets might have been a bit too "generic Arthurian" but at least it made sense. Your basic knight can be a noble, but it can also just as easily be any random peasant brave enough to protect his village. It isn't about birth, it's about valor.

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>>54722792

>>54722792
>Aren't they canonically miserable, filthy, malnourished pathetic wretches?

No. Under shitty lords or in Mousillon, yes.

Read Knights of the Grail.

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>>54722771
Swift Attack is what you're looking for. It's a Full Action and you make as many attacks as you can, unless you're attacking with a ranged weapon that takes longer to load.

>>54722795
I'm also practical, but you'd be surprised at what my group brings up in WFRP. It helps that I and another foreverGM have been in the hobby for over fifteen years, so we have a firm grip on the lore and are very passionate about writing believable plots while also indulging in some over the top shenanigans.

My problem is that, if you came to a village that had to give up most if not all its material wealth, you'd have a rebellion on your hands. All the time. Even if you had a household of knights, you'd still be impossibly outnumbered and get pulled from your saddle and stabbed in the face. I just can't reconcile that without houseruling and headcanon'ing my own timeline with my group.

>>54722795
I've tried basing the Bretonnian economic system a bit more off of real world France, specifically the 17th century France that I'm loosely familiar with from a few books. It's not as advanced as say, the British, still relying on farming peasantry for a large amount of its economic income, but it's serviceable in the right hands as long as the debts don't climb too much, and trade and limited industry was still possible. Voltaire even made a point about peasants actually hiding some of their prosperity so they'd be taxed less, which seems fittingly Bretonnian (if the village is well off, at least).

>>54722625
Once I had a nail stuck in my hand for over an entire day due to shit that happened at work and I actually managed to work around it successfully the entire day.
I did not keep that nail in there just because I managed to do it though, nor do I have fond memories of that fucking nail.
And yes, it IS me saying I don't like Bretonnia as-is. It's a bit like saying I liked Chinese food (because I do), but then every single dish of Chinese someone serves me is extremely well-made but always incorporates a big steaming pile of human feces onto the plate.
A good idea that I love is not the same thing as a good execution, and when a fictional thing that doesn't interest and isn't useful to me is there for me to make use of and change as I see fit, I do so.
I don't see the reason to be "loyal" to something like a fictional setting that doesn't appreciate loyalty and gives nothing back for it, especially when the closest equivalent to being loyal to said thing is being loyal to GW's "vision", despite them being a money-grubbing gathering of clueless fuckwads who regularly exploited and insulted the intelligence of their own customer base because most were too stupid to care.

Plus from a practical standpoint the Empire had been changed in many small ways repeatedly since Bretonnia's final concept crystallized around 5e but Bretonnia largely hadn't changed at all mostly because GW didn't give a shit. I don't see it as "betraying the setting" but more like "doing GW's work for them because they were too lazy to do it".

>>54722846
In a way that still exists, it just requires the intervention of the Damsel or the Lady

If a witch lady says "this is a knight", that nigga is now a knight, and if you don't like it you can go suck a cock.

The problem of course is that a peasant will be malnourished, likely have had developmental problems because of it, have had very little training and absolutely no understanding of the courtly manners and rules they are now expected to follow.

By the same token I can see a peasant knight succeeding by just pretending to be a very aloof questing knight. Don't speak to anyone, get some rube to say you've taken a vow of silence until you have found the Grail. If you've got the weapons, armor, and horse at that point, whose to say you AREN'T a questing knight? Another knight maybe, but how will they test you?

Trial by combat or valor of course. And when you kick that fuckers ass (because you inexplicably know how to fight I assume), no one can gainsay you because trial by combat is basically approval of the Lady - because clearly whomever won had her favor.

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>>54722888
POOR
MALNOURISHED
BENT BACKED

stay mad frenchie

>>54722976
Isn't this 8e era shit?

Even if it isn't, I prefer the RPG's take.

>>54722956
Plus knights were heug as fuck.

>>54722976
>>Hey, you hate Bretonnia, right?
>>Yeah
>>Write a book about them.

>>54722984
No but it was just as infuriating.

>>54722846
It was trying to make Bretonnia more grimdark in the laziest possible way basically.
>>54722900
>I just can't reconcile that without houseruling and headcanon'ing my own timeline with my group.
Fair enough. I practically change the entire section of the setting for similar reasons.

>>54722976
I've heard good things and bad things about this series, and even anons who use it as a major basis for their understanding of Bretonnia. I'd love to get a more in-depth look at it from someone.

>>54722997
Probably speaks at a flaw from GW - they didn't know what to do with Bretonnia aside from stick to the Medieval theme. Judging by the fact that originally it was making use of some historical wargame minis for their fantasy universe, maybe they never knew.

>>54722937
>Once I had a nail stuck in my hand for over an entire day due to shit that happened at work and I actually managed to work around it successfully the entire day.

Why the fuck would you even do that?

>>54722995
>>54722976
Still cracks me up that in the novel about Bretonnia they have an Imperial character just to show how shitty Bretonnia is compared to the Empire

>>54723034
It's a long story involving an idiot and me being stubborn and needing money and somebody getting fired.

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>>54722997
I feel like someone told the writer
>>Bretonnia is too Disney, we need to bring it down to earth
and the writer threw a pot of ink on a Bretonnian knight, but instead of making the shining steel a bit darker it just stained it. I could understand the idea behind it but the execution was flawed.

>>54723031
It has a few good points like Bretonnians having access to plate armour, if you can afford it, but some really, really bad ideas that overwhelm the book. Sir Reolus was a total Chad but still likeable.

>>54723038
>>I hate Bretonnia...
That's literally a line from the book. I think Anthony Reynolds wrote that in a drunken haze and the editor thought it wasn't out of place and it got published.

>>54723031
>Probably speaks at a flaw from GW - they didn't know what to do with Bretonnia aside from stick to the Medieval theme. Judging by the fact that originally it was making use of some historical wargame minis for their fantasy universe, maybe they never knew.
They run their business like a business with creativity being something attached to merchandise rather then actually integrated into it. Bretonnia did not sell well and was not as popular, and thus nobody there cared.
Later faction fluff was written by grown-up fanboys carrying biases from when they were children they never let go of (always a bad creative combo) and the main office (who treats fluff as a tertiary concern at best) just didn't care enough to correct them.

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>>54723081
I thought Brets did have plate armor...just, you know, not Gothic plate like the Empire. They were still in the transitional period. Breastplates are hidden under tabards, but greaves and gauntlets are obvious.

>>54723031
Good things and Bad things sums it up. It basically portrays Bretonnia as an almost dysotopian place that runs on double-think, but because people are still human the rules get bent and they survive. It's really good on the fight scenes and showing the power of the knights in combat, but it also takes every opportunity to take the piss out of Bretonnias culture and economic system.

It's competently written though, and even includes elements from classical literature - hopefully as an homage. I'm primarily speaking of Chuld, who is the scoundrel/comic relief character. Despite being a peasant, a coward, a tubby bastard and a scoundrel he survives every step of the way by his wits and being remorselessly unscrupulous.

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>>54722888

>>54723115
I mean from an army standpoint. It's presented at large as a Crusades era army, with greathelms and mail coats. Bretonnia in WFRP does have access to plate, but in lesser amounts than the Empire. I just appreciated the fact that a rich family could kit their sons out in the best armour they could afford.

>>54723134
The final duel was the best fight in the entire library.

Also that fucker letting the pegasus knight fall to his death. That's stone cold. Didn't he start in the book begging for his life?

>>54723159
>>I just appreciated the fact that a rich family could kit their sons out in the best armour they could afford.

Even if one of the sons was a total CUNT.

I forgot to add that to my post.

>>54723134
How do you feel about the story overall? From what I understand, one of the major villains is Merovech, as a vampire. It surprises me a lot how vampires are set up as villains in Bret stories so often, when they're far from Sylvania and all.

So is there a name for the Empire, other than well, The Empire? Like how even though Bretonnia is divided into it's Dukedoms, it's still called Bretonnia.

>>54723134
>>54723226
Book 1

To give a further breakdown, at the start you begin with two knight chads who are best bro's forever, doing chad knight bro things - going to tourneys, dueling rivals, making hueg political and social mistakes that necessitate pulling their asses out of the fire. This romp is set against a backdrop that shows the Bretonnian peasants as crushingly impoverished and stupid.

In the backdrop we have DARK SECRETS and Beastmen rising in the woods, and it turns out that Chadprotagonists daddo had a secret first son - who was born a twistling, and instead of being killed it was abandoned in the woods to die to keep things hush. This child was found and raised by the beastmen and became a mighty chief, to lead the herd against his biological fathers lands, goaded by an evil hag witch.

The knights race to confront the Beastmen and we get a war scene that takes pains to once again tell us how dumb, malnourished, and poorly equipped the peasant levies are next to the knights, complete with an Imperial Captain (whose there on some sort of diplomatic endeavor to provide an outsiders view) providing snarky commentary and trying to whip them into proper fighting shape.

Things go pearshaped, there's some fighting and killing, it turns out the person behind it all was actually Chadknights waifu, who was working with the witch in secret so her and Chadknight could be together and he could inherit the land. The book ends with a sorrowful and somewhat more mature chadknight banishing her from his presence, his father dead, his mentor dead, and his lands somewhat ravaged.

>>54723277
The Empire of Man is one (a little stupidly) thrown out a bit. The Empire of Sigmar seems the most fitting to me.

>>54723159
That was pretty cold and it surprised me Chold got away with everything. But the guy did deserve it.

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>>54723226
Mallobaude isn't a vampire, which you confuse with another mad Mousillon knight and former Duke, he just failed the final test.

And it doesn't surprise me when Bretonnia is such a martial nation, the Blood Dragons can easily set up shop and duel a bunch of young nobles to powerlevel.

>>54723277
It's technically the 'Empire of Man' or 'Sigmar's Empire'. Keep in mind that Bretonnia is named after the founding tribe, which each dukedom comes from, while each province has it's own founding group and culture.

>>54723314
You commit no crimes if nobody sees it. I could at least respect that. I still hated him, but I got it.

>>54723326
No no, I was under the impression that it was Merovech, not Mallobaude.

>>54723301
>>somewhat more mature chadknight banishing her from his presence
Fucking christ, I've been on benders that have resulted in better character development than this cunt. Remember the rival? That guy was right the whole time.

>>54723355
Ah. Wrong guy, Merovech was the source of the first Mousillon rebellion. He helped stop the Red Pox but had horrific nightmares in which he was Landuin, the first duke, reborn. He tore out the king's throat after being challenged because his court was so ghastly and drank his blood. Doesn't mean he's a vampire! Just one fucked up person.

>>54723301
Book 2

Picks up where book 1 left off. Chadknight has inherited his fathers lands but only over the blood of his family, dead via beastman invasion. His banished waifu goes crying to the sorceress she had conspired with, who goes HAHA JUST AS PLANNED and tricks the stupid bint with a spell, swapping souls - trapping waifu in her decrepit old form and stealing her sexy young body. The maidens of the lady are shown working in the background with a grail knight to prevent the culmination of a prophecy that would see a Champion of Chaos ravage Bretonnia. Meanwhile, a powerful Norscan chief readies his tribe for an attack on the coast, seeking his own prophisized heir - which he is obsessed with, because no woman seems to be able to bear him a son.

Stupid Sexy Hag then uses magic to meet up with said chief, the stars align and they get down to pound town, which gets her gotten with child. However, when she tries to double cross them and make off with the baby, the chiefs shaman tricks her and reverses her spell, sending her back into her old body and the waif back into her original - just as peasants start stoning the witch to death.

(incidentally, the Norscans are really well done in this)

>>54723398
Not trying to insult you, but could you look at this Lexicanum page for a sec? I'm confused now.

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Merovech

Though I would personally prefer the idea that he's not a vampire, since that kind of makes his madness and fall a little cheaper.

>>54723476
The Bretonnians meet the Norscans in battle and it... does not go well. Because they vainly refuse to make use of their trebuchets to smash up the invaders, they decide to charge out and meet the Norscans head on - Chadknight even gets shit talked for daring to suggest they use their goddamn heads. Sure enough, they charge out gloriously, and when their morale wavers, they lose the ladies blessing and get their shit wrecked. However, Chadknight and his companions, including the grail knight, and his long lost sister who is now a maiden of the lady, do manage to attack the chieftans camp in the confusion where they find and rescue chadknights waifu - being very confused as to why she is there (except for the Grail Knight and Maiden, who know what is going on)

They're forced to retreat to a watch-keep along the coast, where the Norscans siege them in. Norsca chief is obsessed with getting his son and orders a full attack over the wishes of his Shaman bro who wants to take their loot and get lost.

Meanwhile, Chadknight is figuring out his waifu is now teen pregnant. Waifu, being pregnant with an incredibly unnatural chaos baby, is now swollen with child and understandably freaked the fucked out and has no idea what is going on. After the baby is born (yes, this is an unnaturally shortened gestation, chaos fuck you), she becomes hysterical as it starts to torment her psychically. Chadknights Bro slaps her to put some sense into her, and she slips on the stone floor and breaks her neck.

Yes, I am serious. It's fucking hilarious.

Chadknight is horrified, and this is the last straw on what was an increasingly strained relationship between him and his bro. But the Norscans attack before they can have it out.

>>54723538
The Bretonnians put up a good defense but are getting their shit pushed in. In a last bid of desperation, the Grail Knight challenges the Chieftain to single combat - if they win, they fuck off. If they lose, Chieftain gets his son. This is against the wishes of the Maiden of the Lady.

What follows is the much praised best fight scene very, just a really well choreographed and described duel between two swole mother fuckers, and everything hangs in the balance.

The Grail Knight loses, quite dramatically getting decapitated, light pouring out of his neck hole. Exultant, the Chieftain claims his son and immediately the tribe fucks off, taking their spoils and heading for the ocean, leaving the disheartened Brettonians alive, but broken.

Chadknight heads home, unable to even look at his bro anymore after everything that has happened, and too PTSD to go back to being a normal noble. Instead he appoints a trusted old friend of the family to look after his lands, forswears his titles and becomes a questing knight to pursue the grail, as he's begun receiving visions. Broknight hooks up with Sir Red Armor, a minor character from the first book who was this mysterious fellow in crimson plate who wrecked everyone at the tournament, but never took off his helmet. Sir Red Knight, who is almost certainly a blood dragon, tells Bro Knight he enjoyed their duel very much and asks if they'd like to travel together. With that bit of foreshadowing, the book ends there.

I never read the two novellas that complete the story.

>>54723476
You failed to mention how Chadknight became an even more unlikable character. Somehow that was possible with a purehearted knight fucking the main character's sister, while another woman watched, and Chadknight could have been hit in the eye with an arrow and I would have been relieved.

>>54723496
Merovech was mad, but was never implied to be a vampire. He was just fucked in the head.

>>54723538
I'll wait for the next part because the DUEL is the saving grace of this book. It's literally one of the few instances my blood got pumping because I had no idea what would happen.

>>54723595
When I say Chadknight I mean the main character. I feel as if he matured quite a bit over the course of the story! At least by the end of book 2 he's not such a cocksucker anymore, being too PTSD to go back to his old life.

The sister fucking part amused me, if only because I liked the little bit about Maidens of the Lady being completely exempt from societies rules and expectations of a woman. They basically go around fucking whomever they want, and Grail Knights are often their "Companions"

>>54723590
I stopped at the same point. All the good characters were dead or fucked off. I found it quite noble that even though Sir Reolus probably would have won two times over, the Norscan had mutations that compensated, the Norscan held himself to the letter of the agreement. Even his convert 'son' was in disbelief that his father left the island. Such was his respect that he allowed the body to be taken back and buried.

>>54723635
I mean the same thing. Calard just became a more unlikeable person as the story went on.

>>54723662
I feel like Calard grew up though. Wasn't Calard the MC?

>>54723662
I didn't really stop, just didn't have the books. I remember wanting a third novel to finish the story since it seemed inevitable he was heading for being a Grail Knight.

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>>54723662
I like the idea of that, since it hearkens back to the early battle for L'Anguille. It could be argued that it's a flaw of the book to rely on repeating old Bretonnian lore, but no one can really argue with stories that present both the 'good guys' and the 'bad guys' in equally badass ways.

>>54723700
Calard was the main character but I could never get behind him. He could have been good but he turned out to be a total cunt and an alcoholic.

>>54723743
He cleaned up his act by the end of the 2nd book I thought. IIRC he was hitting the wine pretty heavy after losing his waifu though, yeah.

>>54723796
He takes the Quest but that's about it. I haven't read it in nearly three years.

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Settra's golden age of conquest has begun! Where in the Old World would be his first target? What would the nations of the Old World try and do to stop him? How far would the massed undead legions of Nehekhara get before they were stopped, if at all?

>>54723830
The Border Princes.

Bretonnia would fortify its coastline and the Empire would make Averland a fort state.

Depends on the amount of bones Settra could fling. I could see him re-conquering the Border Princes, parts of Tilea and souther Averland at best. Sigmar himself found a Nehekharan tomb.

Last night I put together a Total Warhammer army list for a Kislev faction. I'm bored. Give me another one to do.

>>54723907
Do Araby next.

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>>54723925
OK

>>54723907
A fleshed out Middenland?

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>>54723925
>sand niggers

pls no

>>54723907
Tilea

>>54723977
>Middenland
>literally just "Black Forest: The Germaning"

Middenland is as empire as you can get without being in Reikland

>>54724029
But they get their own kind of Ulrican-themed flagellants, and uh...I guess that's it, aside from the Knights of the White Wolf.

>>54723996
>pasta niggers
pls no

>>54724079
Knights Panther, too.

>>54723996
Well, there is a mod for Tilea and the Border Princes already, though i'm not sure about it

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>>54724098
More than a few, but they just unlock the faction.

>>54724083
Mario and Luigi Tilean heroes when? Bowser saurus oldblood when?

Tilea would be interesting as it would require it's own new mechanic, as most of their forces are mercenaries.

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>>54723907

>>54724109
No there's a full faction mod out there. Something somethings Southern Realms

Ok, Tilea or Araby?

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>>54724083
no one gives a shit about you inbred camel fuckers

stay in your own county and stay in your own games mohammad

>>54724135
I'll say Araby, but I imagine that's harder.

>>54724116
I once did Ocarina of Time in WHFB
>Wood Elves are Kokiri
>Dwarfs are Gorons
>Lizardmen are Zora
>Master Sword is a Runefang or magic weapon
>Megaton hammer is a rune hammer
>Chaos Lord Ganondorf becomes Daemon Prince Ganon

>>54724181
Who are the Hylians?

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>>54724146
No can do Captain Lou Albano, gotta get whitey to toil my soil while I rape his women.
It's good to be the sultan.

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>>54724216
Thought of doing Brets but the bombs, ranged weapons & shit made me go with Empire. Given the massive range of items Link uses, a jack-of-all-trades does better than heavy calv. The Bow was something the Wood Elves made, the Sheikah were the Nagarythe High Elves for magic/stealth & because the Dark Elves were too villainous. I think Epona may have been a Bretonnian horse.

>>54724289
It fits, hylians are just humans anyways.

>>54723031
>I've heard good things and bad things about this series

Pretty much all of the bad stems from the fact that >>54722976 could legimately be Reynolds gloating. Every other source pretty much agrees that Bretonnia is a mix of good and bad.

Any rulesets out there structured like oldhammer rather than trying to be 9th edition?

A Retroclone if you will.

>>54723996
>>54724146
Please keep your shit in /pol/, we don't go there to talk about Bretonnia, and noone here gives a fuck about your hatred for 'fantasy arabia'.

>>54724434
Warhammer ancients?

>>54724173
Well, for Tilea, what i'm imagining is a militia/mercenary system. Troops are not trained per say, but hired, excepting militia.

So a Tilean settlement would have military buildings that would provide garrisons and allow for the training of basic militia troops.

ex.

>Infantry
Pike Militia: Melee Infantry, Anti-Large, Defense vs Charge (Large), poor morale
-
Spear and Shield Militia: Melee Infantry, Anti-Large, Shielded, Defense vs Charge (Large), Poor Morale
-
Sword and Buckler Militia: Melee Infantry, Shielded, Poor Morale
-
Halbred Militia: Melee infantry, Anti-Large, Armor Piercing, Poor Morale
-
Archer Militia: Missile Infantry, Good Range, Poor Morale
-
Pavaisse Crossbow Militia: Missile Infantry, Decent Melee Combatant, Shielded, Poor Morale

These would be relatively cheap, but not being proper soldiers suffer from poor morale, and are more for bulking out an army with cost-less (more on that next) troops or providing defense. However, they receive a bonus to morale when they're garrison troops, negating their leadership penalties.

Tilean soldiers are hired. So I think, rather than trained, they ought to be hired like regiments of renown. The counter to this is in addition to their signing fee and maintenance fee, initiating a battle also costs money (similar to an agent action). If you don't have the money to pay them morale drops, and if you go several turns in the red they start deserting, or even desert and form a rebel army and go raid the nearest down, becoming essentially a barbarian faction until they accumulate a certain amount of gold. Defensive battles wouldn't incur cost because fighting for their lives falls under "upkeep". This makes them particularly cost effective for defense.

For mercenary units, you can take them right out of the Dogs of War, particularly the Tilean regiments.

>>54724488
Another possibility instead of per battle cost is to make mercs contracted, so they function as "summoned" units and only last a certain number of turns. Once that contract is up they vanish and you have to hire them again. So you can build an army almost instantly, but also lose it instantly if your contract runs out.

>>54724452
Not exactly, something akin to 3rd or 4th edition

>>54724434
why not just play 3rd

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>>54724601
Why not just stab yourself in the balls?

>>54724695
You already have the best rules for WHFB available to you, and you're asking for some shitty home brew pretending to be those rules

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I noticed the hunched-over dude on a leash has Chaos symbols burned or tattooed onto his back, but has what looks like religious icons attached to his head and face.

I believe the picture is of an Estalian expedition, so I wonder - do the Estalians believe that with a little help from Myrmidia, they can reverse the taint of Chaos, or control it?

>>54724706
Because I'm drunk and petty. I'm not a perfect person.

>>54724721
I don't see an eight pointed star, I see five at best. Even if it had eight points that's still a symbol of the Colleges.

I would the hunch guy is a remnant of a previous venture into Lustria.

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>Myrmidia is commonly portrayed as a tall, well-proportioned young woman armed and equipped in the style of the soldiers of the southern Old World.
>well proportioned

Where were you when your diety of war had rocking tits?

>>54724862
>>54723996

wtf I want to be a knight of the blazing sun now

>>54724721
>>54724747
Mutant slave with a good sense of smell?

>>54724947
No more hiding. No more running.

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>>54724933
They're pretty much the best order, being concerned only with practicality and talent above all else. Their knights focus on learning and skill, and give no fucks about nobility, and are said to be the best tacticians in the Old World.

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>>54724976
the black and gold armor is pretty nice to

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>>54725018
SWAG KNIGHTS
GETTING SHIT DONE

So sad that You-Know-What boiled it all down to SIGMAR VS CHAOS outright ignoring the other mythologies and dieties of the old world, of which Sigmar was just one (small) part

>>54724976
too bad you can't buy their models anymore

>>54725044
Especially since in setting Sigmar is an Imperial Cult and it could have been argued not a real god like Ulric or Taal

>>54725044
Part of the cool shit about Warhammer was the complex mythologies and religions. It added character to various locations, and is always great fodder for characters. It also helps that the religions themselves are to some degree up to interpretation, allowing some variance in types of character. A Myrmidian could be anything from a tactician to an artist, an worshiper of Taal could be a hermit, a huntsman, or even an urban merchant who doesn't want to forget the thrill and danger of the wild from his youth.

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>>54725018
I made a few of these guys the other day!

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>>54725253
Or you could worship lesser gods like Handrich.

>>54725418
Nice models I really like the parchment.

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>>54725418
That's real good work anon!

>>54725433
Ah, you mean the venerable Affairiche.

I'm a little sad that Knights of the Grail shoved the Bretonnian version of Handrich out and focused more on Ranald, especially since Handrich is an oddity in having a different name wherever he's worshiped. But that's easy enough to switch out in your own games.

>>54724243
This picture makes me think of a question: what sort of plays and musicals would you see in the Empire and other human ĺands?

>>54726562
Drachenfels play.

>>54726562
A lot of military songs like Prussia.

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>>54726562

>>54726598
>The Night the Skaven Crept In/Children of the Horned Rat

SKAVEN DON'T EXIST REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

seriously though

Seriously

the setting would be better if Skaven didn't exist.

>>54723590
Isn't this Egil Styrbjorn's backstory?
I remember it quite well

>>54724721
I always thought it was a pigmy or other native they use as a guide


by the way, the chameleon skink in that art still amazes me

>>54726598
Holy shit where did you find this

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>>54723907
Border princes, you have a lot of room for imgination since we don't know what units they use. Maybe good archers and hunters since it's quite a forrested and untamed land

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>>54721576

>>54718488
That's pretty fucking cool

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>>The entire regiment stood in awe as those fabled lances struck against the thick waterbeast hide shields.
>>They tore through them like hot butter. "Holy Sigmar!" remarked one of the rankers. "Don't blaspheme!" said the priest. But none of them could take their eyes away from the
horror that unfolded before them.
>>The infantry was routing.

>>54721480
Somehow this picture completely lacks dynamism. The red knight in the middle looks like he's stopped his horse in front of the skeletons and is just vaguely poking them with his lance.

>>54727140
According to the RPG books the border princes are mostly made up of mercenary armies so you'd probably get a decent mix of Tileans, free companies, irregulars, all sorts of stuff really.

>>54722888
>>54722976
Both of those are Black Library sources and thus don't matter in a conversation about fluff.

>>54724354
Reynolds wrote the latest armybook, he should understand Bretonnia better than most.

>>54724721
That's a map he has tattooed to his back.
Note the scribe behind him consulting it and making notes.

I think the implication is that the gimp is the survivor of a previous expedition and has gone insane.

>>54727603
>Black Library sources and thus don't matter in a conversation about fluff.

You know that elitism ruins general discussions, yeah?

>>54726718
You can have songs about things that don't exist, anon.
Here's the lyrics:

“Now sone,” spake the father
“Will you to work?
Will you go doon in the well
Or will you stay here and shirk?”
“No fear,” spake the sone
“In bed I shall lie
For there be rats in the well
And if they bite me, I’ll die”
And the father cryed:
“Rats! Rats!
You should give thanks to the Gods that it is only rats!
For fate is a strumpet, and life is a curse
And if it war’n’t the rats, it would be something worse!”
“Now sone,” spake the father
“Be ye working today?
For the cows are at milking
And a-needing their hay”
“Not I,” spake the wastrel
With a piteous wale
“There are rats on the rafters!
And rats in the pail!”
And the father cryed:
“Rats! Rats!
Give thanks to the Gods that it is only rats!
For fate is a strumpet, and life is a curse
And if it war’n’t the rats, it would be something worse!”
“My sone,” blew the father
“Ye will come to work now!
Get the seeds up and garnered!
Hitch the horse to the plough!”
“None!” cryed the boy
“For down there in the mud
There are rats by the hundreds
And they’re hungry for blood!”
And the father cryed:
“Rats! Rats!
Give thanks to the Gods that it is only rats!
For fate is a strumpet, and life is a curse
And if it war’n’t the rats, it would be something worse!”
But the boy he was stubborn
And staid in his cot
And his father, a-sighing
Returned to his lot
And there all alone
The boy slept owt the day
Till the Skaven crept in
And stole him away
And the boy cryed:
“Rats! Rats!
Sweet merciful Shallya, let it be rats!
For fate is a strumpet and life is a curse
And I no longer fear rats now I know what is worse!”
—Popular tavern song in Wissenland

>>54726956
It's from the Entertainer's Career Booklet for WFRP 2e. I remember when it was being written there was a thread on the BI forums where they scoured every Warhammer book they could for mentions of songs.