/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

How would you rule plunging attacks, guys?

>>54661511
With an iron fist.

Describe your question in more detail and I may be able to give more than a joke answer.

>>54661468
>Picture

How the fuck would you even get into this situation?

>>54661468
Baator and Acheron, though I'm not sure if the latter is still in 5e.

So I had a buddy telling me that Human variant was OP and I probably should allow only the regular one for the campaign I'm about to run

thoughts?

>>54661630

Or just allow everyone a free feat at level 1, just ban SS, GWM, PAM, etc. until their first ASI.

>>54661630
Compare it to half-elf and draw your own conclusions.

>>54661630
True but feats are awful without variant rules and some classes are awful without feats.

>>54661630
I personally don't care for dealing with Feats at early levels so I don't use variant humans. That first free feat choice can do a lot to change the game. It makes any character who hasn't taken Alert seem defective by comparison. I guess I could just not allow feats like Alert or Lucky. But even then I would still not allow the variant human with their free feat pick.

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>>54661554

It all started with a badly-timed bald joke, anon.

>>54661511
The situation may grant advantage I guess. I wouldn't give someone bonus damage or advantage just because they can jump high though

>>54661733
Feats are (almost) all really fucking strong and I think variant is too good for anything level 1 and maybe even the variant ASIs. Should have to actually give something up/spend some hard PC currency to get them.

>>54661643
What feats are those may I ask? I'm pretty new and don't know the abbreviations yet.

>>54661643
magic initiate or whatever too, except that it doesn't make sense OUTSIDE a level-1 background feat position.

>>54661785
Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master

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>>54661468
>What's your favorite plane of existence, barring the Material Plane?
zendikar

does 5e have a octogirl race?

So should poison really be considered evil and illegal in D&D ?

Just like magic or weapons it's a tool that can be used to kill someone in their sleep or cripple an orc chieftain that wants to wipe out a village, whether it's good or bad depends on the application.

>>54661805
>magic initiate or whatever too, except that it doesn't make sense OUTSIDE a level-1 background feat position.

???

>>54661200
DCs can be any number, but why do all examples use steps of 5, then?

DCs are usually only 'any number' when there are modifiers that give a more exact measurement i.e. spell save DCs where it becomes slightly better with each stat-up.


Using a system of fixed sets of 5 DCs makes things less arbitrary, a player can agree that if they beat DC 15 they've achieved a task of medium-hard difficulty so the only potential (even if unspoken) argument is 'Is this a medium-hard or a properly hard skill check?' rather than 'Whether I succeed or not depends on whether the DM feels like the DC being 13, 14, 15, 16, 17... Who the fuck knows, they're just going to pick a random number.' and the DM could justify it by 'Well, it's DC 10 base and then +2 for this and +3 for that and +2 for this so DC 17' but it's much better to just say 'No, it's DC 10 base but the guard is racist so it's +5 so it's DC 15 instead.'


There is no reason to use DCs inbetween factors of 5 other than in cases like spell save DCs and because you like really overcomplicating things in ways players will never understand and you get off to that somehow.

>>54661785

Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, Polearm Mastery, don't forget Crossbow Expert, either. All the good feats that make martials competitive with casters, basically. Hold off on allowing them until level 4.

>>54661868
magic initiate is stupid powerful, 2 free cantrips and a 1st level spell (w/ 1 dedicated spell slot per long rest).

>>54661860
Poison is an element of nature and even then what's poisonous to others is food to someone else. Poison has no alignment.

>>54661805
Characters who really want that feat can pay a fee and attend a school or have an apprenticeship with an NPC caster to get it. It doesn't have to be something they MUST have done before 1st level.

>>54661860
It's always been frowned upon for metagame reasons: because it would be a pain in the ass to have PCs constantly poisoning and re-poisoning their weapons, which they will do unless you give them a reason not to. They won't even have fun doing this, because it's not what the game is supposed to be about, but they will do it because it's optimal and there's no reason not to. It's the same reasons why poisons are traditionally so weak in D&D.

>>54661860
>>54661941
>>54661952
Pest control is vital so poisons are like knives in terms of toolness. Applying it to weapons has always been completely retarded outside the obvious payload-delivery types (blowguns, grenades, etc)

>>54661943
For some, it's like a dip in multiclass tier character direction though. Majorly painful to wedge in mid-campaign.

>>54661860
evil, no.

illegal, that depends. you compare it to weapons and magic, but both those things have been outlawed in many places IRL (or heavily restricted).

>>54661874
How about DMs want a little nuance with these numbers that ultimately mean nothing. Example: This lock is a particularly sturdy and well crafted one but still not quite master level, DC 17.

Another example: Jumping the chasm 10' would normally be a simple DC 10, however the goblins chucking javelins and rocks from behind you are making things slightly more difficult, DC 13.

Leaving everything arbitrarily be divisible by 5 at all times just gets boring for me, the DM and too predictable(=boring) to the players.

>>54661985
lemme go ahead and poison these grenades

>>54662006
>pre-refrigeration agrarian society
>banning poisons
That's how you get basement rats you know.

>>54662032
lol you know what i meant

>>54661985
>For some, it's like a dip in multiclass tier character direction though. Majorly painful to wedge in mid-campaign

then it must not be that important to the player.

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Can a good alligned character steal? I'm making a rogue thief, but somehow I can't imagine a burglar with a conscience.
Should I just stick to looting old tombs perhaps...

>>54662017
thorn whip scales with level, shillelagh scales with WIS. Wildshape scales with class level.

In what way does this not scale?

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>>54662049
A "good" character can do a lot to justify theft in their minds.

>>54662049
Ever heard of Robin Hood, the literal example of a chaotic good character?

>>54662049
Robin Hood stole and murdered people in the name of good

>>54662049
Consider the tax man potentially bad example

>>54662104
Isn't that more Lawful Neutral?

So all this talk of how many feats to cut. What about not playing with feats at all? I'm cutting some magical classes in my setting too before any martial get too triggered

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>>54662049
Stealing from the rich is canon Good.

>>54662073
>>54662017
oh and druid can (more easily than other classes) use shields/weapons for foci so war caster isn't vital.

>>54662116
Maybe he genuinely cares for the betterment of society. He's taking that tax money to pay for a public orphanage and shit.

>>54662126
If you're doing that just cut all the combat feats, none of the flavor feats are OP and add a lot of...well character to PCs

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>>54661771
>Feats are (almost) all really fucking strong
Yeah, they are so strong that half of them have to give an ASI to make up for how shi- I mean, how (((good))) they are. Athlete and Actor are jokes of feats, no one would give up an ASI for that shit. That's why they give +1 to Strength/Dexterity and +1 to Charisma, respectively. They aren't even real feats. The feat system in 5e is shite, meant to pander to grogs who don't want to deal with feats despite the fact that 5e is so much different from OSR that none of them are playing it anyway. They should have just nutted up and included feats in the fucking game. Wouldn't have been that hard. Shit like Blade Master and Fell-Handed are quite literally contradictions of 5th editions entire fucking design philosophy. What the fuck, Wizards? You say you want bounded accuracy and simplicity of mechanics, then you delete all the bonuses and replace things with advantage and disadvantage where a battlemaster's aid another maneuver is useless with the barbarian's reckless attack (whereas in older versions they would stack), then you go and contradict it by releasing a fucking Weapon Focus feat? How schizo and weak are you? What a joke. Just what a fucking joke. This edition is just as much of a mess as 3.5 was, there's just less of it. That's it. 5e is simpler, and only has two good ideas: proficiency, and size-based hit die type. That's it. Feats suck. Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter are the Power Attack of 5e, they are non-optional if you want to deal out damage as a martial. Grappler and Tavern Brawler are good for the latent homosexuals on /tg/ who want to make a dwarf fighter to strangle people to death. Cause that's not fucking gay at all. And Lightly Armored? Linguist? Come on, you aren't even trying, Wizards. Why not break with tradition and make major/minor feats, or do something like feat points, do something interesting for fuck sake.

>be dwarfen cleric riding a mule while our party gets attacked by wolves
>ride towards wolves with mace ready
>DM intervenes: you cant attack or cast spells while mounted
>okay.. I get off the mule and cast guidi-
>DM intervenes: dismounting counts as your action

What did he mean by this

>>54662009
>How about DMs want a little nuance with these numbers that ultimately mean nothing.
That what I mean about 'because you like really overcomplicating things in ways players will never understand'

Your players shouldn't give a fuck about the exact workings of the lock. They just want to know 'is it a hard lock or a medium lock'. Anything inbetween is pointless semantics and seems far too arbitrary.
'Well, I've decided that this civilization isn't good enough to use DC 20 locks in this place but they don't feel like being DC 15 either so I decided to put it in somewhere inbetween'
Your players won't complain because this whole thing is a minor issue, but considering you don't tell your players the DC usually, you want your players to be able to roughly guess the DC so that their success doesn't feel entirely arbitrary 'because the DM decided to represent a fluidity in lock difficulty'.

The goblins raise the difficulty to DC 15. You're not telling the players that, but you can say 'the difficulty is up one step'. This means that the players have more reason to actually get rid of the goblins than 'oh there's some small addition that you've no way of guessing'.

>Leaving everything arbitrarily be divisible by 5 at all times just gets boring for me, the DM and too predictable(=boring) to the players.
The players aren't here to have fun playing guessing games and you're not here to tell them 'you see a DC 15 lock' but 'You see an average lock'. So..

>>54662182
why the fuck can't you cast while mounted? You're sitting the fuck down, should be easier to cast.

>>54662175
>(((good)))
You're mixing up your memes, buddy. This should have multiple quote marks around it: """good"""
Parentheses is indicating it's Jewish, which makes little sense in this context.

>>54662183
>>54662009
So, there really is no point. It's already bad enough trying to guess whether the DM thinks something is medium or hard if they don't outright say it, without you putting on all sorts of minor modifiers that nobody has any way to guess the level of.

You want to give your players as much information as possible without overloading them with information and also with only telling them things they can acquire (and leaving some for rewarding players with information)
Setting DCs to weird numbers only obscures information from the players, and again, while this is a very small point that your players won't complain about it's not a good thing.

>>54662182
Your DM sounds like a fucking moron

>>54662200
t. never ridden a horse in their life

>>54662221
you're just riding them all wrong.

>>54661874
How about there are different DCs for the same reason there are different ACs and different ability bonuses. Check out how wood, stone, iron, steel, mithril, and adamantine all have different AC. This trap is DC 16 to disarm because it was made by a CR 5-8 creature with +3 Int. It's DC 18 to sneak past the Dire Wolf. It's granularity.

>>54662221
I mean, the PHB literally describes clerics casting spells from fucking pegasi. A mule shouldnt be too far fetched

>>54661468

Motherfucking Outlands, Including Spire and Sigil.

>>54662182
Your DM didn't read the fucking rulebook, that's what it means.

>>54662267
Can you elaborate? Maybe I don't understand the Outlands very well, but they don't seem particularly interesting to me.

>>54662182
Means your DM is a moron and needs to read the fucking book. There's a little section on mounted combat. Relevant highlights are: mounted combat is a thing; it costs movement to mount or dismount, but only one per turn.

>>54662182
>Once during oyur move, you can mount a creature that is withing 5 feet of you or dismount. Doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed.
-PHB, Mounting and Dismounting, p. 198

Probably subtle hint from your DM, that he didn't read PHB. Pretty nice of him, giving you such obvious red flag, don't you think?

>>54662237
How the fuck do players work out that the lock was made by a CR5-8 creature with +3 int?
They don't. They 'might' be able to study a wolf and realize 'oh, it's about CR this and dexterity this' although obviously in-game you'd just have it as some books 'monster difficulty rating' and 'it's nimble'.

It honestly would be better if it was DC 15 to sneak past a dire wolf or DC 20, but the way it clashes with player mechanics (Possible proficiency+wisdom) gives you ground to show the calculations that make it DC 18 which makes it less arbitrary, at least.

I'd say ideally all monsters would have spell DCs that are multiples of 5, other things such as passive perceptions as multiples of 5 and so forth, but the monster manual is kinda at odds with the main game with all sorts of things such as NPCs having way more health and players running off of death saves instead.

>>54662404
They've all got their own internal systems that are consistent at much greater precision than your shit.

>>54662417
>much greater precision

Is dungeons and dragons a science?

No, it fucking isn't. This is why we removed shit like pathfinder feats for tiny boosts to things or 4e where there's so many numbers that you need an electronic thing to handle your numbers at high levels, because only the big boosts really matter and anything less is your DM being so pedantic it takes away from the experience.

>>54662237
>>54662404
This is such a disgustingly high level of metagaming that everybody involved should feel ashamed.

>>54662128
>Stealing from the wealthy to support the needy
is canon Good

>>54662457
There shouldn't be any metagaming, and that's why you do it like this.
'This task may be difficult' could imply it's a DC 15 or DC 20 task. Your players can guess that.
If it could be any number instead, for all the players know the DC is 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21... If they roll one of those numbers, it feels that their success is more 'because the DM allowed it' rather than 'The DM has some incredibly intricate mechanism behind the screen for calculating the exact DC of everything when it comes to stuff they made up on the fly like the lock of this house we suddenly decided to investigate'.

>>54662491
It's called taxes, anon.

>>54662175
Thanks for the new copy pasta

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>>54662175
>(((good)))

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What do you think about a dex based Eldritch Knight, tg?

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I'm running my first campaign for six friends this Sunday. Doing the 5e starter set stuff.

Please send help

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>>54662566
That he could be Strength

>>54662569
Won't be hard.

>>54662566
About as good as a dex based fighter, really. Nothing wrong with it, great synergy with two levels of Bladesinger if you feel like making your spell progression needlessly confusing for the sake of the best AC in the game and never getting any feats ever.

>>54662457
>This is such a disgustingly high level of metagaming that everybody involved should feel ashamed.
If it helps you any, I'm the one that questioned "all DCs are divisible by 5" and I do feel a bit ashamed to be arguing about it. It's obviously just examples, so this other one >>54662496 must be trolling.

>>54662566
It's okay. They should probably multiclass into rogue at some point though.
Since GFB/BB makes less attacks the rapier isn't quite so bad because you're not going to use GWM with a GFB/BB attack. Then you can use a shield and stack up the AC as you expect from an EK.

Though shield+rapier prevents you from casting the shield spell. Better get war caster. That gives you booming blade reaction attacks at least.

Though it kinda has lack of synergy with shield master (worse athletics checks and already using your bonus action) which means.. Eh.

Overall it works, but don't expect anything grand.

>>54662614
>must be trolling
Once again, I don't see how obscuring information by making DCs more fluid and arbitrary improves the game in any way?

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I'm new to D&D. I understand there are lots of different editions. Do people like playing 5e? Is it better than previous editions?

>>54662642
If you want to tell the players the DC, go ahead. You're the only one in charge of obscuring your information.

>>54662623
EKs implicitly can't use a spell focus can they?

>>54662211
>>54662555
Well the feats ARE good. if they weren't, no one would want to sink all that money into the 5e books, as well as the D&D dice bag, D&D miniatures, D&D spell cards, etc. I know a couple who plays at my local store who has all the D&D swag, must have sunk like 300 bucks into it. What a joke.

>>54662569
Read the rules and the adventure multiple times. Improvise when you have to, but if you actually read the books you'll be better-equipped to do it, and you'll have to do it less often.

>>54662668
5e is the biggest the game's ever been. People like it and it is better than previous editions in many ways.

>>54662670
There's a difference between 'Not telling your players the exact information but letting them guess' and 'Not telling your players the information but giving them no way to guess', and it's not 'That you tell all the players the exact DCs' because this is a roleplaying story game.

>DM reads 10 paragraphs of adventure book description in one go
Does the book actually insctruct you to do this? It's so hard to keep track of things.

>>54662684
I dunno if it's "biggest" cause d20 was open beyond straight up D&D but it's fuckin big. Generally good too.

>>54662680

I've been reading a lot, but I suppose I'm slightly intimidated that I have to DM for 6 people my first time. I sort of assumed some of them would be busy...

It'll be exciting, and hopefully I can keep the story moving.

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>>54662569
Read the book. Get enough of a grasp on the characters that you know how they'd react to things happening that aren't given parameters by the book.

Try to make sure your friends understand that you are trying to present them with a story that has boundaries. If they want to go off and not follow the main quest, as new players are wont to do, allow them, but make sure they understand before the game starts that they're unlikely to find anything fantastic outside of Phandelver. I made that mistake and my players ended up flying around the sword coast doing all manner of nonsensical things, which would have been fine if I had any idea how to DM, but I didn't.

Don't be afraid to put your foot down sometimes

If the players seem like they have no idea what to do or where to go, throw them a bone. An NPC giving them a hint, or even just OOC reminding them of something they're forgetting.

The most important rule is have fun.

>>54662491
>>54662513
I think this only proves that good/evil axis of alignment is about intent, not consequences or intrinsic qualities of act itself.

>>54662756
Most non-adventurers are so inconsequential that they're ruled non-aligned. Their devotion to gods is for material and afterlife benefits not cause they're truly dedicated to causes. That's what adventurers and shit are for.

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>>54662668
>Is it better than previous editions?
It's simpler than previous editions, which in /tg/ groupthink means it's good.

5e has a lot of good ideas. Proficiency brings all your numbers into a single bonus, even if it increases way too slowly for the sake of "bounded accuracy" which 5fags love to spout about without understand what the fuck it actually is. You get Dex to attack with light weapons instead of Str, which makes sense; but you get Dex to damage as well, which doesn't. Yeah a kobold stabs at you with a dagger he's good at hitting cause he's agile, but it takes special training to know where to hit. It's just 5e trying to pander to every kind of build with zero effort, because even something that vaguely resembles a feat tax is bad bad no no territory.

In 5e, everything is damage. Shit like the basilisk, cockatrice, bodak, and mind flayer might as well not exist, because the abilities that made them scary either require you to fail three saves in a row, or are just straight damage. Yeah that basilisk that you had to fight blind cause it'd turn you to stone if you met eyes with it? Nah it just deals petrification damage bro, you have 75 hit points cause you're a fantasy superhero in a world literally MADE OF MAGIC, so you'll be okay. Also all the cool spells are nerfed into oblivion to protect poor mr. fighter's precious fee-fees.

5e also makes sure all races get bonuses to their abilities, not penalties, because if any race is even 5% worse at their class feature then that's rayciss. How dare a dwarf bard not be as good as a human bard! They might as well just remove racial stat changes and give each race a little feature or ability, because at this point it's just a way of inflating stats, which now hard-cap at 20 (remember that bounded accuracy meme?) so it's really counterproductive to keep them in. But they are a sacred cow of D&D, and 5e is terrible at slaughtering those. But then again, 4e was happy to slaughter sacred cows, and it sucked.

>>54662744

Thank you. These posts are good. I want to give them freedom, but freedom within the frame of the campaign. I suppose I'll just have to try and see. I've read the free rulebook twice and I'm reading the campaign. I doubt we'll even get to finish the first dungeon.

>>54662684
The game has constantly been getting bigger since it was created. Increased cultural awareness (i.e. Stranger Things, Big Bang Theory, Critical Roll, anything with Felicia Day and Will Wheaton, as well as internet memes) are driving the inflation of the player base more than D&D 5e's rules. Sure 5e is easy to get into and has less complex rules, but that doesn't mean the game is good, necessarily.

>>54662668
Like all the editions, 5e had strengths and weaknesses. Its biggest strength is that it's beginner friendly, and likely is the best choice for a newbie such as yourself.

Downsides vary from lack of mechanical depth present in previous editions to some character concepts being completely impossible given the rules as written.

Try it. You'll have fun.

>>54662668
5e is very popular. Some people don't like that it doesn't have as many "splatbooks" (books of extra options for player characters) as previous editions.

4e is the most divisive edition. It was widely hated when it came out, and to this day only an angry, defensive minority like it. It was the most balanced, but it accomplished this by making every class exactly the same. It's very slow and video-gamey, and it's the one edition where minis and a grid are mandatory.

3e and 3.5 are also very divisive. They did well and they have a lot of people who look back on them fondly, but they had their problems. They had the most splatbooks and the most game-breaking interactions between splatbooks that were never made to be used together. Spellcasters, especially clerics and druids, were very overpowered, and doing damage was usually a waste of time when you had some kind of spell that would end the whole fight on its own.

Anything earlier than that can be lumped together into old-school D&D. It lasted a long time and it has a nice focus on doing as much as you can without rolling dice during play. It had the most randomness in character creation, and the dice could really screw you over or bless you with a super-being. As far as balance, everything was either powerful at low levels and unplayably weak at high levels, or vice-versa. Some people consider that balanced enough.

>>54662700
>Not telling your players the information but giving them no way to guess
No one is talking about this except you. If you think the DC is between medium and hard, it's not impossible to guess anyway. So I guess I should say that literally no one is talking about that.

>>54662668
I like 5e most. It is reasonably simple and... DnD-ish.

If you like truly epic stories and love grid based combat, check 4e, though.

>>54662817
Spotted the guy whose only experience with 4e was the session he made up in his head after reading posts on 4chan about it.

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>>54662789

>>54662789
It can still happen. I've had two players petrified and one guy get his brain eaten by an intellect devourer. He's now playing the intellect devourer and the other players still don't know.

>>54662789
>you get Dex to damage as well, which doesn't. Yeah a kobold stabs at you with a dagger he's good at hitting cause he's agile, but it takes special training to know where to hit.
I'm guessing "training to know where to hit" is part of strength, then?

>>54662825
It's not impossible to guess, but it's harder to guess, and there's no reason to make it harder to guess because you want players to be able to guess because if they can guess correctly it means the players have worked out information for themself.

Nobody talks about this sort of shit because it's a very minor point that usually won't be brought up because the difference between doing things in sets of 5 and doing things otherwise is quite minor, but sometimes even the minor things matter.

>>54662850
It's literally what proficiency is. Stop responding to this guy, it's obviously trolling

>>54662817
>Spellcasters, especially clerics and druids, were very overpowered

LOL no
>implying 3.5 cleric can fly
>implying 3.5 druid can deal damage
>implying 3.5 druid has any good lockdown spells
>implying cleric has any good kill spells
>implying armor proficiency even matters against a wizard
>implying AC even matters in high level 3.5
>implying wizard doesn't beat the shit out of cleric, every single time

>>54662817
>>54662828
Old school stuff had dedicated adventure modules and organizations and stuff so from an organizational perspective it's probly larger than D&D is now. If they made a splatbook dedicated to converting the old adventures OR re-released some of the old modules (not sure about licensing/copyrights) in 5e it would be fuckhueg. 5E is spiritually closer to the old school than anything since 2E (in style, not rules). I like the direction its going in.

d20 devolved into rules lawyering and miniatures and all that silly shit that was designed to sell books/accessories. Not cool but it allowed non-D&D games to get in on a similar ruleset and made THEM better for it.

>Give me back my 1/2E adventure modules and settings please

>>54662844
>theoretically a character can still die to this
>my players are retarded so these monsters are still scary
>anecdotal evidence is okay when used to support the general groupthink

>>54662850
If I hit you with a sledgehammer when I bench 200lbs it's going to fuck you up.

>>54662837
This is what I mean when I say a minority of people get bitter and defensive about 4e. Like people who live int he woods and think that the Civil War is still on, there's always someone ready to try to keep fighting the Edition Wars.

>>54662877
If I'm quick and accurate enough to hit you in a more vulnerable area it's also going to fuck you up.

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>>54662850
>I'm guessing "training to know where to hit" is part of strength, then?
No, you stupid shit, Strength determines the power of your hit, i.e. increased force = increased physical trauma.

>>54662856
So proficiency should add to damage with Dex-based weapons instead of Dex itself? Interesting idea, but it breaks down at higher levels. That's okay, Strength becoming a shit stat is totally okay! You can still pick up heavy things and smash doors and still be useful! Until the wizard gets knock and unseen servant. Or just buys a fucking cart and horse.

>>54662569
Besides what other people said already:

It's a Forgotten Realms module, so names suck. If you can't memorize one, come up with something short. Better an elf called Chris then Nhamashalel Larongar or some shit your players can't remember.

In fact, that's your motto: short and to the point. I DM'ed my first game for 6 people. Then I got to 8 on my third session. It's very simple: you have about from 10 to 30 seconds of their attention, and 30 is really reaching it.

Don't bother them with exposition. Only things relevant to the game right now matter. Have fun. it's just a game. First sessions are terrible, but they're great anyway.

>>54662873
Your unnecessarily universal blanket statement that "damage is everything" and "people never die to anything else" was just begging for counterexamples. Don't get your panties in a wad just because you generalized wrong.

>>54662852
You are only speaking for yourself. Some people just say the DC instead of saying the DC in code so the players are supposed to feel good for figuring it out. Others just don't talk about the DC at all. And none of this has anything to do with whether DCs are indended to be a 30 point scale or a 6 point scale with lots of empty space.

>>54662668
>Do people like playing 5e?
Yes

>Is it better than previous editions?
No edition is better than the others, they are
just different and appeal different people

At what point does it become pointless to increase AC more?

>>54662858
Different guy but in a regular game, I think it's easier to keep a wizard in reigns than druid/cleric which is why the guy mentioned them as the worst.

Also player AC definitely matters in high level 3.5, have you ever played it? It might not seem like it in theory, but in actual games whenever power attack comes into play, every piece of gold invested into AC is worth it.

>>54662858
They were both overpowered, but you're an idiot if you can't admit that clerics and druids were more so.

>>54662931
30, I imagine. Since it's the "hard-coded," max DC.

>>54662931
It becomes increasingly harder once you get into the 20s. That said, it's basically always worth it if you have it. You don't run into "you can literally never avoid this" until you go up against CR 20+ monsters.

>>54662901
Yeah except that requires special training faggot. If you pit two untrained men against each other in melee combat, the stronger one is going to win the majority of the time. He is bigger and tougher and can put more force behind his blows. That is why Strength is superior to Dexterity as a baseline. You don't see fucking Jackie Chans winning 90% of fights. Agility is important for dodging blows, but you're not gonna see some tiny 20 Dex dude beat the shit out of The Rock without some special training involves, represented by, I dunno, a feat or something? But that's a big bad evil feat tax and since that was bad in 3.5 that means it will be bad always. And since feats are so rare in 5e there's no way that that's even viable. So the way it is works fine, it's just that in concept it's retarded. Especially since it means a kobold savage with 9 Strength deals the same damage as a 13 Strength fighter with a shortsword.

Or better yet a fucking cat with 18 Dexterity who would wreck shit by this dumb-ass system of doing things.

>>54662910
>So proficiency should add to damage with Dex-based weapons instead of Dex itself?
No retard, the proficiency is the to-hit. Which is what we were fucking talking about when anon said
> but it takes special training to know where to hit

But I've already taken the bait so I guess you fucking won now, congrats

>>54662882
To use the metaphor, those people in the woods only think the war is still going because folks come around to shoot at them every day. Only now it's some jackass in an SUV instead of a soldier in uniform.

>>54662919
Except a DPS monster is still king, hp are blanket invulnerabilty because almost nothing except conditions get past them. No, people don't die to anything else because the only thing that kills in 5e is getting to 0 hp. And power word kill. Which is hp based, lol.

>>54662931
As you infinitely increase your AC, the DM will most likely eventually respond with increased attack bonuses or more AC-ignoring attacks, which you might ignore but will make things a shitshow for the rest of the party. At least that's the effect I noticed in my own game, it started taking place around 24+ ACs.

>>54662971
>Yeah except that requires special training faggot
P R O F I C I E N C Y

>>54662950
How do you get a 30 AC?

>>54662882
When you refute the arguments dozens of times, you turn to just snark. So lurk more, faggot, and do your own research, because I've done it for you multiple times.

You can start with the time I said that keywords on skills can make or break a party.

>>54662997
You can still die from ability damage, too.
>land 1 poison/disease hit
>proceed to run circles around STRMonster for 2d6 days
>win

Does anyone have the "Weird West" Update from The Middlefinger of Vecna?
We are starting a western themed game soon, so it would be great if someone could share it with me

>>54662858
There's a reason CoDzilla is a term.

>>54662925
For all we know I'm speaking for a lot of people who haven't realized that this incredibly minor point actually improves the game. It's not easy to tell.

And yes, I'm not talking about whether the DCs are intended to be on a 30 point scale or in multiples of 5, because that's already obvious enough that it's 'whatever the fuck the DM feels like at the time' but the real question is what the best way for a DM to do with it is.

>>54662126
>So all this talk of how many feats to cut.

You're not cutting feats, simply not allowing players to pick the best ones at level 1.

Don't cut feats unless you want a party of nothing but Bards and Wizards.

>>54662945
Nah I was just memeing about the AC. CoDzilla just pisses me off because I fell for the venerable druid meme and it sucked ass, constantly were wanting a wizard in that party, and the cleric had good spells but not half of what we wanted. Depends how you define power to be honest.

hey anons. Is it broken if when my players get an ASI to allow them to also pick up a feat for free? Or would that make them to OP?

>>54661812
Broken as fucking hell.

I had a DM once who suggested that SS and GWM's bonus damage should be 2*proficiency bonus rather than a flat 10. Makes them more balanced at lower levels and gives it an actual buff at higher ones.

>>54663013
Minmaxing and cover bonuses.

>>54662997
>>54663020
And in that vein also exhaustion! Exhaustion death is interesting.

>>54663013
An absurd amount of epic boons improving ability scores on a monk or barbarian I imagine, though both could theoretically have more than 30 at that point. Realistically it's not something that would ever happen in a game that isn't trying to be ridiculous

>>54663006
Do you not get Dex to damage with a weapon you are not proficient in? No, you still do. Hence the SPECIAL TRAINING. Proficiency means you know how to use the weapon, cockbait. That doesn't mean you know how to maximize your dextrous nature to stab at weak points. Dex to damage is fucking stupid in the first place, it creates this line of logic that leads to "lol Intelligence adds to damage cause you are smart and know anatomy and know where to hit lololol" bullshit.

My player the other day used twin spell and then quickened spell to cast Eldritch blast 3 times, because he is lvl 5 he got 6 rolls. Reading the rules now it seems like quickening EB is possible but not twinning it(at lvl 5 and beyond when you get the second).

I am reading it right, right? I am new to 5e(this is my first 5e game) and the player is an experienced veteran.

I know a lot about running monsters but until recently I didnt even know what a monk or a sorcerer was.

>>54663036
Although it should be self evident that your suggestion does not improve the game, as an example, this would mean 10PP has the same effect as 14 PP, because perception DCs will only be 10 or 15, and a lock you cannot open at level 1 with +5 bonus on thief's tools could never be opened unless you actually raise your dexterity because the only DC higher than 25(possible) would be 30 and proficiency only goes up naturally by 4 points as you level.

>>54663020
Oh yeah, the 2 to 3 things in the game that actually have ability score damage. Sure. And they are all weak as fuck.

>land 1 poison/disease hit
>proceed to run circles around STRMonster for 2d6 days
>win

What are you talking about?

>>54663134
Are you actually retarded or are you just pretending?

>>54663109
You mean at 1st level? Not really - but maybe consider banning these >>54661643 - at least 'till the 4th level.

>>54663013
3/4 cover, plate+2, shield+2, ring of protection

>>54663109
It doesn't matter, 5e characters are OP already. The 20 ability cap means you are just making them end up maxing secondary ability scores later on anyway. Also if you roll for stats it's fucking meaningless anyway.

>>54662042
>That's how you get basement rats you know
How else would adventurers get their starts?

>>54663170
Explain how your other post had ANYTHING to do with my point that Dex-to-damage should require SPECIAL TRAINING, and your stupid-ass irrelevant response of "proficiency" typed out with condescending spaces that had nothing to do with it because you still add Dex to damage whether you're proficient with the dagger or not. So your logic is fucked.

>>54663099
I uess it's true that 3.5 druid becomes awful when you start (ab)using splatbook spells or do some minmaxing bullshittery. I had the very same player play druid twice in the campaign, first time he was weak or perhaps even sub-par, the second time he did some optimizing and I actually had to ask him to tone down a little because otherwise I'd have to kill his party while trying to match his power.

>>54663155
But expertise doubles your proficiency bonus.

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>>54663110
2*proficiency seems so little for a -5 early on.
3*proficiency would probably be an OK trade though...

>>54663013
The other day I was added to a roll20 game.

I started at lvl 1 because the DM said "I'm an old school DM", only with starting equipment.

The lvl 5 paladin had 27 AC. 25 plus shield of faith.

Some DMs like to give magic items like they are candy.

>>54663203
By YOUR logic of special training to use dex, you could get special anatomy knowledge to use int.

>>54663154
Your analysis seems to be correct, yes.

>>54663203
A more accurate attack dealing more damage makes perfect sense. Saying that requires "special training" is over thinking it at best

>>54663235
>27 AC
Did he have a +3 shield and +3 full plate? AT LEVEL 5?
Leave the game, the DM is an idiot.

DM's, how do you guys handle player movement out of combat in a dungeon? I'm new to playing/DM'ing and my group on roll 20 move their tokens around the dungeon like kids with ADHD. I'm thinking about making it a point to tell them to: propose an action/movement, get my ok, then move their piece.

>>54663155
>perception DCs will only be 10 or 15
Are you stupid?
The DC for passive perception is a stealth check

Can someone give me a quick rundown of why the gods can't interfere directly with the material plane in the Forgotten Realms? I know it has something to do with Ao the Overgod but can't find an article in the FR wiki that describes this in more detail.

>>54663215
You're (anything but a rogue) so you can't expertise thief's tools. It's an example of how lacking granularity affects the players.

>>54663187
No rolling for stats. using stat arrays. And from what I've played 5e characters are drastically underpowered compared to other editions. unless you're an arcane spellcaster everything feels really nerfed and dumbed down.

Currently playing a cleric and I fuckin hate how they're basically shit now. though that could be the fault of my DM and the CoS module....

>>54663235
Also, that is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of "old school DM."

>>54663245
That's fine.

>>54663250
So the more you exceed the AC by, the more damage you deal. Dex should have nothing to do with it.

>>54663223
But if you consider the fact that "you can't pick sharpshooter/gwm at 1st and 4th level" is a very reasonable houserule, the 2*prof sounds like a good middle ground. It's useless at first, but you can have it a little bit early at least. Also SS cover ignoring and range extension is amazing as well.

>>54663272
1) That is MY point.
2) Traps don't make stealth checks.

>>54663277
I'd say just play by RAW for now, man. Adding more feats isn't going to help make it better. Pretend this game is nothing like 3.5, because despite /tg/'s "hey 3aboos why don't you like this game it's just like 3.5" crowing, it's nothing like it. It has more 4e heritage than anything else, seeing as 4e ALSO had feats.

>>54663284
>Dex should have nothing to do with it.
Why though? You're just drawing lines in the sand

These threads are really good at convincing people that 5E isn't worth playing because RPG players aren't worth being around for longer than an hour.

Honestly, that would explain all my RPG experiences.

>>54663296
wait... you'd still restrict it even in its nerfed version?

i cant follow the /5eg/ memes tonight

>>54663305
Using passive perception to see traps is boring and idiotic

>>54663319
Because Dex already adds to attack. If the accuracy of the attack by itself should add to damage, why not include the ENTIRE attack bonus (i.e. training and magical enhancements) in margin of success to determine damage?

You'll say "cause that's dumb" and then you'll be the one drawing lines in the sand. Which is all that this argument actually is, by the way.

>>54663260
The game was so bad on so many levels that I played the whole session giggling like a girl. It was every single horror story mixed into one game, from sex/rape themes, powerful DMPC, cheesy story, a Drizzt clone in the party, gross miss interpretations of rules, homebrewed guns into the game, homebrewed horrible rules, absolutely broken magical items, aligment discussion mid game....

It was so ridicolous that I wont even type the story because it sounds 100% fake, actually it was so over the top that sometimes, I doubt that I lived through that.

>>54663276
So in that example only a very skilled Rogue could open the lock. A DC of 30 should be nigh-impossible.

>>54663134
>it creates this line of logic that leads to "lol Intelligence adds to damage cause you are smart and know anatomy and know where to hit lololol" bullshit.
>>54663284
>That's fine.
Well ok then. Is there room in your 4e game?

>>54663326
No, I mean I frequently see regular SS with a "can't be picked before 8th level" restriction, and I think it's not unreasonable. If you were to nerf the feat to 2*proficiency damage I believe it wouldn't need such restriction anymore.

>>54663342
>sex/rape themes
>cheesy story
>drizzt clone
>homebrew guns
>homebrew horrible rules
>broken magic items

I think we're gonna need some more details, that sounds hilarious.

Is it viable to play a character that's always disguised or is that going to make more work for the DM?

>>54663338
in D&D attack includes overcoming shit like armor. You're using your finesse to wiggle through gaps in armor rather than punching through them. The damage isn't any stronger the more you squeeze through that gap.

>>54663328
... why? All it does is make for tedium and punish bad rolls despite specialization.

>>54663338
It's no more questionable than strength giving you a better chance to hit. It's a pointless hold over from when ability scores weren't the same things they are today that would serve no purpose other than to pointlessly restrict characters.

>>54663328
You could narrate poking, prodding, dusting, and burning everything, or "roll to find traps" every 5' instead, if you prefer. Both of those seem worse to me though.

>>54663380
Because then whether or not the party sees traps is an entirely arbitrary decision by the DM. The party has X as the highest PP. Do you want them to see the trap? If so, DC < PP. Otherwise, DC > PP. It's completely ridiculous if you actually want there to be some kind of chance to find the trap or not.

>>54663357
>Is there room in your 4e game?
3.5 also included options for Int to damage. Pathfinder had widely-accepted 3rd party shit that allowed Dex to damage, and 3.5 had Book of Nine Swords abilities that allowed Dex to damage as well. As does Pathfinder Unchained. And yes, 4e let you do stupid shit like make basic attacks with Constitution. But do you know what they all had in common? It wasn't a fucking default. If you wanted to shoot arrows with the power of your inner wisdom, you had to spend a feat on that shit. Or have a class feature. Or just plain have something. But in 5e you have kobolds who deal more damage with a dagger than a city guardsman's crossbow, because they wanted to pander to "everyone has a special talent so let's let them utilize that for free even if it makes Dex a god stat" bullshit.

>>54663382
I think he's of the mind that restrictions breed creativity and making all classes work the same is boring.

Which is a fair cop, even if I disagree with his hatred of dex added to damage.

>>54663382
See >>54663364
Strength aims straight fucking through obstacles rather than around them. Overpowering what would have been a parry/deflect into a hit.

>>54663397
You don't have to fucking roll every 5' you idiot. You only have to make one roll until circumstances change, just like you would for stealth. Or do you roll that every 5' too?

>>54663155
>this would mean 10PP has the same effect as 14 PP
A creature wouldn't have 14 PP in the first place. It doesn't improve the game to have weird PP numbers other than to have creatures consistent with monsters.
This would only matter for the players as they want their +2 ASI to wisdom to actually mean something and it does this by raising their passive perception by 1 to, say, 14. For a monster, the monster doesn't care because it's a monster.

>and a lock you cannot open at level 1 with +5 bonus on thief's tools could never be opened unless you actually raise your dexterity because the only DC higher than 25(possible)
And that's fine. So, suddenly thieves start to be able to open 20% locks they weren't before rather than 5% more locks per level - But firstly that's more meaningful to the player 'I now have the ability to open more locks!' rather than 'I now have the ability to open a tiny few more locks' and secondly...
Secondly, do you let your players repeat the skill check over and over and over? Because if they do, then sure, it's a bit odd. Otherwise, it's only a 5% chance of opening the lock and the next +1 they get will boost that to 10% - a doubled chance of success. They've only just learnt how to deal with such locks.

>>54663328
>Using perception at all to see traps
>Not already giving the players the various hints that there could be a trap and then letting them realize it for themself or ask for a check to investigate or whatever

>>54663413
There's nothing creative about finesse weapons all sucking ass without a feat or whatever

>>54663338
Because it results in different mathematical results. You could make a system that uses degree of success as damage, or as a factor applied to damage by weapon, but D&D does it this way instead.

>>54663404
That seems to be a weakness of traps, not PP. Traps basically only exist to make rogues feel good. I imagine if you include traps, they'd all be DCs the rogues can pass.

Or you could just include traps that make sense for the setting and use the appropriate DCs from the book. That way it feels more natural.

I might be playing devil's advocate here, but lately I've been pretty down on the idea of traps.

>>54663203
>getting this booty-bothered over meme spacing
This is some good quality autism yessiree

>>54663360
Really it so fucking bad that you won't believe me.

It is like you take the most obvious bait in /5eg/ and multiply it by 10, now I understand how subhuman some people who play this game can be.

I think I have a screenshot of one player sexually harrassing a girl player (who left 5 mins in), I mean the whole game was voice only but when she stopped replying one guy kept writing a few more things. I showed it to my brother while it was happening.

Right now I am not at home but I can show later ( I am in a train 50 mins away from my place)

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I briefly brought up wanting to build a bladesinger in a previous thread but forgot to follow up on it. Any tips besides "read a guide"?

>>54662674
Right. Gotta have a component pouch according to RAW

>>54663413
>Which is a fair cop, even if I disagree with his hatred of dex added to damage.
I don't hate Dex added to damage at all. I played Dex-based melee characters throughout 3.5 and even tried to do so in 4e. I hate Dex added to damage by default, so that little goblin and kobold shitters deal more damage than my fighter's crossbow despite having 7 Strength. It's fucking ridiculous.

I mean, if you're fine with all kobolds and goblins being jackie chans, and being able to pick up a rapier they've never touched before in their lives and skewer you with it, that's fine. Strength to attack is also fucking retarded, I agree. If I had my way, Dex would determine to-hit and Strength would determine damage. Although really, if you've ever been in a "real" swordfight (i.e. LARPing) you'd know that being strong is still a huge advantage, but that's another argument.

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>>54663431
>A creature wouldn't have 14 PP in the first place.
Literally what?

>>54663454
Traps can do things other than damage, they can change the environment and alert enemies and stuff. The 10-foot-pole method of trap springing isn't always going to save you from the results and disarming can be as clever or as brute forcey as the DM/rogue can manage.

>>54663435
The idea is that a dex based character should never just be hitting people with a sword and passing, that's the fighter's job.

This is an extreme argument, but you get my point. Me being as useful in combat with High Cha or something and way more useful than the Fighter outside the combat is what creates problems.

>>54663352
It cuts out the middle space between "I can do this" and "only the best of the best can do this." The "if only was a little better" or the player's "I could do this next level/ASI/Prof increase."

>>54663494
It would be changed to 15 instead. And I doubt anybody would cry about it unless they studied the monster manual hard. Nobody's going to read the monster manual to realize their stats should give them exactly 14.

>>54663437
>but D&D does it this way instead.
Yes, and D&D used to not let a child with 5 Strength deal more damage with a knife than 150 fps crossbow bolt, but now it does.

>>54663469
I'm only "booty-bothered" over it because you were wrong. Your arrogance just made it even more annoying.

>>54663485
I was more thinking along the lines of blurring your focus into your somatics for implicit war-caster-ing. It's not exactly against RAW but not explicit except for a few hintish tweets.

>>54663475
Blur out the names and post it. I am bookmarking this post, I will check later on.

>>54663516
Good to know you're autistic, anon

>>54663404
The players are in charge of providing light and setting travel pace, each of which can be -5 for the purpose of spotting traps.

>>54663502
But a dex character might be a fighter! This is exactly the sort of argument that makes the whole concept flawed

>>54663534
It's autistic to try to calculate everything to specific DCs inbetween easier values.

>>54663500
>traps can do things other than damage
Word. My favorite trap I've sprung on my players just produced a fog cloud with no damage and no follow up, it just reduced their visibility to fucking nothing and caused the entire party to simultaneously shit their pants because they thought something horrifying was gonna loom out of the fog and wear them like a condom any moment now.

>>54663532
I only have that one particular screenshot though it won't prove any of the other things I said.

But I will.

>>54663500
Fair enough. I haven't looked at the DMG in a while. Haven't DM'd in a while either.

My DM kind of sucks right now (he's trying his best, though!), so it colors a lot of this conversation.

>>54663422
>You only have to make one roll until circumstances change
Then you're going with "punish bad rolls despite specialization."

>>54663322
You need to find people who have offline personality as well.

>>54663363
Depends. It is probably easier to just hide your true identity, than to pretend to be someone completely different. If you don't care about the target identity, you can grow the beard, change haircut, change your clothing style and manners and you could be reasonably safe without much problems for DM. Otherwise... i don't know? Could you elaborate?

>>54663572
So you can never fuck up?
Does your fighter never miss an attack?
Does your rogue never fail to pick a lock?
Do your enemies never fail your wizard's spell saves?

This is literally the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard.

>>54663269
Don't use the grid for anything other than combat.

>>54663586
You should never be able to fail to see evidence of a trap if you are not time pressured in a room with a trap.

The adventurers should be assumed to take plenty of time to search for traps without having to 'ask can I roll perception in case you put some bullshit invisible trap that murders a guy again?'

Players should only have to ask to search for traps when they're time pressured.
Perception already has a billion other uses and hiding information from your players makes the trap all the more bullshit.

>>54663431
>Secondly, do you let your players repeat the skill check over and over and over? Because if they do, then sure, it's a bit odd.
There's rules for it, if they have the situation where they can try again, and it isn't just rolling again.
>Not already giving the players the various hints that there could be a trap and then letting them realize it for themself or ask for a check to investigate or whatever
>You have to read my mind, or just roll a check anyway.
>I don't know what I'm doing anyway since I obviously don't play, DM, or read the book.
Just fucking kill yourself, faggot.

>>54663640
>Players should only have to ask to search for traps when they're time pressured.
THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT YOU FUCKING MONGOLOID
WHEN YOU MENTION "ROLLING EVERY 5 FEET" THAT MEANS YOU'RE FUCKING TRAVELLING. TRAVELLING TAKES FUCKING TIME

>>54663657
>reddit spacing
Fuck off

>>54663657
Arda? Like, the world of Middle-Earth?

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>>54662183

They are here for to play fucking games that's the whole fucking point. And yes I literally tell them "You need to beat a DC random number". Then they roll the dice and we move on from there.
The only time I don't tell them DC's are for things I roll for them or for stealth checks.

>>54663646
>You have to read my mind
'There are odd holes in the walls'
>You have to read my mind
>Listening to speech is reading someone's mind
And the check is optional. You don't have to make the check to realize what the odd holes are, the check only helps you if you're stuck.

>>54663274
Jist is that over-interacting with the planes kind of fuck shit up in a metaphysical sense. Since a lot of gods would pull stunts that could mess with the balance, Ao decided he'd slap their shit in if they got out of line.

>>54663542
Sure, but that's a relatively new idea, isn't it? Weren't older dex based fighters generally bad?

Are str based fighters really bad in 5E? That would make sense with what I'm hearing so far since Dex affects AC and is a much more common Saving Throw and Check.

>>54663680
Hey man that's just how my notepad file I used did it
>>54663687
oops, I knew I had heard that name from somewhere before. Ill have to rename.

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>>54663657
>Dragonborn
>Goliath
>Kenku
>What the shit is a Kenku
>In Arda

>>54663554
They aren't in-between. They're just values. And calculating them is just one option. You could throw darts, trust your gut, or just make a decision.

>>54663640
>You should never be able to fail to see evidence of a trap if you are not time pressured in a room with a trap.
So are you arguing for using PP or saying that traps are auto-find? Because both of those arguments are stupid. If you're using PP, then difficult traps become impossible to find even for someone who is specialized, which goes completely against your argument. And if all traps are immediately discoverable, then there's not even a point to having traps.
Traps need to be traps. Sometimes you will find them, sometimes you won't. Some traps are just too well hidden for even someone making a thorough search to find.

>>54663715
>Are str based fighters really bad in 5E?
Not at all. In fact, STR fighters are the default due to heavy armor and better weapon options. Generally you only go DEX for a fighter if you're specializing in ranged weapons.

>>54663646
Also
>There's rules for it, if they have the situation where they can try again, and it isn't just rolling again.
It tends to vary a bit by DM but if you're saying that they can't keep rolling then you're agreeing that the change from +4 on a roll to +5 on a roll isn't 'You can now open all the DC 25 locks' but 'you now have a very slim chance of opening a DC 25 lock'. Which is a bigger jump than 'You now have a very slim chance of opening a DC 24' lock when locks could be DC 23, 24 or 25 but I dare say it's actually better that the player only then gains the ability to open such a hard lock, whereas before going from +4 from +3 wasn't exactly meaningless as it increased their chances of opening easier locks by 5%.

Anyone have a good ratio for converting 3.5 monster Strength to 5e? For example I'm trying to convert a Blaspheme (which is a medium undead brute with 28 Strength) to 5e but 28 is almost as strong as a tarrasque. Same with a winterwight which as a 52 Strength which doesn't even exist in 5e as far as I know. I want to preserve as much of the original stats as I can (like # of hit dice even if it changes CR) so that there is a "link" to the original monster, but some of these Strength scores are just too high. Plus I already have to improvise Con scores for the undead.

>>54663657
>thoughts?
Mostly just use the enter key half as much. I don't really see why a setting would specifically need fly removed, and it really isn't needed in terms of balance. The alert change is pointless and retarded. I don't really think lucky or GWM need a ban aside from listening to too many GWM memes (you should also probably remove SS to be consistent at least).
I'm assuming the multiclass and teleport things are the setting parts you were talking about, but the multiclass restriction would basically make druids worthless and sorcerers only exist to min-max with paladins and warlocks.
Also was wizard the only class you left out? If you think they're too OP they're basically the same as bards in that respect, but class balance debate aside there's not only subclasses that benefit from int

>>54661511
>plunging attacks,
?

You mean lunging attacks or reckless attakcs?

Spend a bonus action to extend your range by 5ft or give your self advantage on 1 attack roll.
Cant use it more than once per minute.

>>54661816
Nope. There are aquatic half-elves, but you would have to homebrew something up.

>>54663435
Maybe greatsword shouldn't deal 2d6 fucking damage then. Maybe ability score bonuses shouldn't be so fucking high. Maybe the game should take the lessons it learned about bounded accuracy and apply them to damage as well. D&D 5e: the edition where your fighter can't hit worth a damn but at least he deals a shitton of damage when he does.

>>54663702
If that's how you want to do it, then sure.
It's a slight unnecessary complication to have to come up with some exact DC rather than the players being able to easily agree 'yes, this is a moderate difficult task so it's DC 15' rather than 'maybe this is a DC 16 actually? Or a DC 17?' Not that the players actually would question it out loud or really care much, but I did say this whole farce is about a minor point.

But overall if you tell everybody the DC then it mostly doesn't matter because the players know the odds before they roll it and don't need to guess at it.
Being forward about the exact mechanics of a roll has both upsides and downsides so it depends on the sort of game you're doing.

>>54663703
In this example, the perception portion is telling them that they notice the holes. But maybe it's dark so it's impossible to see the holes. Or maybe it's just dim, shadowy, or they're in a hurry so they don't notice them anyway. Or maybe you just ignore perception, travel pace, and light because you're a lazy faggot

>>54663576
Planning on playing a Yuan-ti Bard and don't want the peasantry to know I'm a literal snake charmer.

>>54663842
>D&D 5e: the edition where your fighter can't hit worth a damn
Seriously what the fuck are you talking about

>>54663820
I think he means attacking while falling from above your enemy: jumping out a window onto a guard, leaping from a balcony onto a critter, hopping up a pillar before dropping down, etc.

>>54663665
I didn't mention that
I'm just someone else throwing their bone in the bonefest

>>54663729
I'm not saying you automatically find the trap.
Harder traps you will get less evidence of them being there, but you will get some evidence.

Traps aren't just 'roll perception and if you fuck up well have fun getting speared by a trap' but more of a puzzle.
You get evidence that there may be a trap, and the party decides what they do to work out how the trap operates/if it is a trap and not actually something good.
Also with knowing there's a trap there, they can use that trap against their enemies or they know that an enemy could try to push them there and they feel silly when an enemy pushes them onto the trap because it's their fault, not the fault of the perception dice that didn't feel like telling them stuff at the time.

>>54663796
>It tends to vary a bit by DM but if you're saying
I'm saying there is a rule in the fucking book and you should know that if you're gonna GM.

>>54663532
I just realised I just took a phone pic(yeah yeah I know but if you are talking in whatsapp this is the easiest way)

Blurred: his and her name.

This happened after the DM told us all the half elves were sex slaves in his homebrew and the guy kept calling her sex slave and to sit on his lap, he typed that after she stopped replying.

>>54663884
Oh that.

I'd rule it as 2d6 damage for every 20 ft you fell before hitting your target.
>Monk player gets to one-hit shit by dropping from outer space.

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>>54663905
Stupid phone I forgot to add

>>54663871
>16 Dex rogue has better to hit than 15 Strength fighter with Greatsword
>rogue can take expertise in rapier and have twice the to-hit bonus of the class who is supposed to be good at hitting

>>54663848
>In this example, the perception portion is telling them that they notice the holes. But maybe it's dark so it's impossible to see the holes. Or maybe it's just dim, shadowy, or they're in a hurry so they don't notice them anyway. Or maybe you just ignore perception, travel pace, and light because you're a lazy faggot
I already explained this. If they're time pressured or it's dark or whatever the fuck they will be punished for recklessness and they will know that. They will know in that case they can roll perception, but they also know that if they roll perception they won't be able to dash this turn or deal with that enemy or whatever because they're too busy ensuring the party's saftey.
In the case of it being dark, the players just have to put some damn light on.

The players are punished for a reason in these cases: You are running for enemies and nobody took the sacrifice of losing an action to check for traps or it is dark and you did nothing to light the room up.
The players are being punished in other cases by 'You failed a perception roll so the trap hits you roll a dex save' which isn't the worst thing ever but for DMs who prefer more OSR style gameplay it's shit.

>>54663905
>>54663935
That works. Holy shit, that is autistic. Was this character being played by a real girl, too? No wonder I've only seen 2 women playing D&D at my FLGS in its entire existence.

>>54663842
This is just rambling at this point. You're clearly trying to make a point, but that's the only thing that's clear

>>54663946
>rogue can take expertise in rapier
LOL
Read the fucking book you dipshit

The spell Zephyr Strike from UA, is it balanced or too powerful?

>>54663772
Oh. Cool. So there is a limitation (I didn't know armor and weapons could have minimum strength required).

Then that guy can go suck it. The kobolds don't get to wear armor.

>>54663946
>rogue can take expertise in rapier
FFS. Read a book.

>>54663903
And if I recall right the rule in the book leaves it up to the DM to decide, 'Oh, no, you can't roll this again because you already found you have no knowledge of this you'll have to go to a library to find out' whereas the DM could also decide 'once enough time has passed I'll let you try again if you want to ponder on the matter'

And in particular, locks have no reason you can't just try to pick the lock again, usually. It's not as if all your thieves' tools break or if you're lock picking as an action you spend 6 seconds trying to pick the lock and then decide 'nope, this is impossible, I'll never be able to open this'. In that case to stop people repeatedly making checks I'd just say that each time they make the check the time required to do it goes up a step - it takes a couple of minutes for the next check, then half an hour for the next, then even longer on the next.

>>54663969
I'm sorry if you have to take a feat to deal the same damage with a rapier as a fucking spear. I'm sorry if game balance is that fragile. I'm sorry that 3.5's "trap options" and "feat taxes" and other assorted buzzwords, scarred you to the point that you strawman anything that vaguely resembles them, and make stupid arguments for a 5 Strength kobold child dealing the same damage with a dagger than a 10 Dex guardsman's crossbow, even though he has a better to-hit and thus is more accurate than the kobold child is. I'm sorry that you have Wizards of the Coast's cocks so far down your throat that you can't see why that is retarded.

>>54664024
Most people say you fuck up a ... fuse? That can't be the right word.

Like, you somehow make it completely unopenable. I don't know anything about locks.

>>54664009
>>54663990
>and your proficiency with thieves' tools. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies.

I can attack with thieves tools at a +7 at first level and since Dex adds to damage I can deal more damage with them than a guardsman's crossbow. Nice going 5e.

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How does this stack up as a Barbarian Archetype?

>Path of the Skinwalker
>3rd: Gain a natural weapon attack while Raging ala Alter Self, can use Bonus Attack to attack with natural weapons
>6th: You can double your movement speed for one round and make an attack with advantage, on hit becomes a Shove, gain Exhaustion for 1 hour after Rage ends
>10th: You can take on the physical appearance of the last person you killed, as though using Alter Self, as well as basic surface memories, gain special movement if had any
>14th: Gain Permanent Wings, Fins, or Digging claws, detect invisible or concealed creatures within 30ft

>>54664045
3.5 and Pathfinder haven't retroactively vanished you know. If you like garbage that much why not just go back to them?

>>54664072
I like how instead of admitting how wrong you are, you're just doubling down on being a complete retard. You're not making anything look bad except yourself.

>>54663962
It was an actual girl

Where is Crypt of the Death Giants in the trove?

>>54664092
>an untrained kobold savage not being jackie chan by default, is garbage

Okay.

>>54664098
>>54664072
Pretty sure that's one of us taking the piss out of him.

>>54664072
quit acting like a faggot.

>>54664024
>And if I recall right
You don't. DMG, pg 237, Multiple Ability Checks.

>>54664098
fighter's still aren't any better at hitting than any other class. A wizard is a better crossbow shot than most fighters. An elf wizard has the same to-hit as a fighter with a dagger.

>>54662183
I would much rather have my DM say "It's a sturdy, but not quite masterwork lock, you can tell there was some quality craftsmanship put into it." And have some in between DC than to just have them say "it's a hard lock" or "it's a medium lock". Different strokes for different folks, don't assume everyone wants to play like you.

>>54663855
Ask your GM. I'd make it so that you can most everyday social situations, but named NPCs got to roll or something. Since they are supposed to be infiltrators, it is safe to assume they ARE able to pass, in most cases.

Obviously, Disguise self could take care of the problem as well.

>>54664130
oh look a rules lawyer

About to level up to 2nd as a warlock and instead of the +2 ASI I want to take magic initiate, I'd also be getting agonizing blast, is this a good idea? There's a lack of dedicated arcane caster in our party.

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Reformatted to hopefully lessen shitposting, this is what I think I'll stick with for my upcoming campaign

PLAYABLE RACES
Dragonborn
Dwarf (hill) (Mountain)
Elf (Woods) (High) (Drow)
Goblin
Goliath
Halfling (Lightfoot) (Stout)
Human
Kenku
Orc

PLAYABLE CLASSES
>BARBARIAN
>BARD
>CLERIC
>FIGHTER
>MONK
>PALADIN
>RANGER (Revised)
>ROGUE
>WARLOCK

*Playable, can only be taken via multiclassing, and only 1 level per other level of class taken*
>DRUID
>SORCERER

--Removed Spells--
>Fly
>Teleportation Circle
>Teleport

--Feat Revisions--
>Only the classes ROGUE and RANGER can take the ALERT feat
>LUCKY feat is removed
>GREAT WEAPON MASTER, POLEARM MASTER, and SHARPSHOOTER cannot be taken at 1st or 4th level

>>54664175
>ASI at 2nd level

???

>>54664151
>discussion of the rules
>rules are merely mentioned
>OH BOY LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A RULES LAWYER

>>54664185
>no half orc

>>54664185
>>Only the classes ROGUE and RANGER can take the ALERT feat
This is actually a good idea, might steal it

>>54664151
I only quote the rule when there's a question about the rule or it's better than whatever janky shit you're spewing out. Or to laugh at the rule if it's dumb.

>>54664175
>ASI at level 2
Read the fucking book

>>54664194
Ability score increase. +2 in one stat or +1 in two. An optional rule is to forgo the stat increases for one feat. Happens like every 4 levels for most classes (fighters get them more often)

>>54664175
>>54664194
>>54664232
4th.

My DM is starting us at level 17, with one very rare, one rare, one uncommon, and one common magic item. What race/class/magic items combo would be the most fun(tm)?

Must be AL legal.

>>54664077
Kinda cool.

>>54664216
I didn't want half anything in my game just because I didn't really write them in so to speak, I world built with the idea that pretty much all the races can't crossbreed

>>54664194
turns out I can't read or interpret words or context. I'm going to lay off the crack for the next 20 minutes.

>>54664248
>one common magic item
Well considering the only common magic items are basic healing potions and cantrip or 1st-level spell scrolls, that's not too hard of a decision

>>54664185
I am intrigued by the complete lack of wizard, in fact with the multiclass thing the only raw magic dudes you got going on are Warlocks. You going for a low fantasy kinda thing or what?

>>54662212
That's such a fucking arbitrary thing to draw the line on. I'd much rather have to face skill checks and DC's that increase by 5% than knowing there'll be a 25% difference between one level and the next. To use the lock example, there's a base chance of 50% to unlock a "medium" lock, and 25% for a "hard" lock, before proficiency and modifiers and all that jazz. Do you really not see the inherent value of being able to make the odds 30% or 40% instead? This is a simplification but you should be able to grasp the concept of granularity.
I know you were trying to say something about players just wanting to know the DC tier but as a player I'd much rather have a general idea of the range (okay, this is probably DC 15-17, 20-25, etc.) than to know for certain it's either a 15 or a 20.

>>54664253
That is fine idea, allow me suggestion, though: Take half-orc stats and say they are the orcs stats - because Volo's orc stats are quite terrible. Unless you want orc free game in which case ban them outright.

>>54664252
Thanks, but do you know if it's any good?

Trying to make a low fantasy campaign. I wanted to make armor more interesting. Wanted to see what people thought of my idea. Basically I made medium armor have more utility.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aj-Q0brDtLkUaawz_kehlpkbdFwrw0L3n2Ew1ax87W8/edit?usp=sharing

>>54662700
Nigger we've given multiple fucking examples of ways to tell your players that the DC is something between the hard 5-intervals and each time you've bitched about it being too "obfuscated". Fuck off and let us have our granularity and verisimilitude instead of trying to make us conform to your shitty 5-block mentality.

>>54664317
This. That's what I did in my setting. Half-orc stats are a lot better designed for player characters than orc stats.
This was especially true in 4e, which is when I created the setting, but it's still true now.

>>54662789
>petrification damage
Nice bait, here's your (You)

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>>54664446
I know it doesn't exist, faggot. But it probably will in 6e when they remove monster abilities altogether and change everything to damage types. It's already halfway there, why not go all the way? It'll make the game more friendly to newcomers, and that's the entire point of D&D, right?

>>54664232
>>54664242
>>54664175
I mean is it a good idea to forego the ASI on a warlock and instead take a feat?

>>54664411
If your intention is to kill off dexterity builds, then congratulations! You did it.

>>54664479
Typically not. They're equipped with most of what they need, and should really try to build their charisma as fast as possible.

>>54664479
Generally speaking, unless you are making a specific build, then you want to get your primary stat to 20 first, no matter what the class.

>>54664479
There are powergamer guides online that can tell you that information. But generally from most I've read, they don't get the feat until the second ASI because if you are using the general spread rule for stats you most likely have a 16 in your primary stat, and getting that to 18 for a +4 bonus is sometimes (sometimes) more important to you as a low level character. There are exceptions, like if you made a super heavy duty fire guy and your dick of a DM made all your enemies resistant to fire, go ahead and get that magic fire feat first.

>>54664411

>11+dex (max 2)

You need to edit Mage Armor to be a flat 13 with no dex or people will take a level dip for it

>>54664411
I really like the idea of there being two layers to armor, but I think variety rather than there being a bunch of types of mail specifically would be a better way to go. I'm not sure if damage reduction is necessarily the right direction to go, but I can't really think of a better one.
I probably wouldn't use the shield varieties personally though, since there's basically no reason to not use a tower shield

>>54664561 here
I missed the (max 2) on the light armors. That's fucking horrible and makes all light armor pointless.

>>54663554
You're getting dangerously close to "There's a 50% chance of every outcome, it either happens or it doesn't" anon.

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Hoe do I go about making the legendary bardbarian?

I wanted to make him a dwarf with bagpipes.

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> Tomb of Annihilation is still over a month away

Mike Mearls pls

>>54664593
He's basically just a barbarian with a magic sword, a gun leg thing, and bagpipes that he may or may not be proficient in

>>54664585
>>54664561
>>54664559
Ok so the max 2 was a bad Idea, ill nix that. The tower shield has 15 str requirement, so you won't always be able to use it.

>>54664633
I was wondering what bards are like and what they get at certain levels.

I was going to be mostly barbarian obviously.

>>54664655
>The tower shield has 15 str requirement, so you won't always be able to use it.
Yea... only on the characters that would want it most.

In 3e? Tower shield gave you cover - you could get more AC from it at the cost of your accuracy. Kinda liked that.

>>54664655
Who even uses shields that doesn't raise strength to 15? That would really only effect weird multiclass stuff and the rare dex paladin/fighter (that doesn't just use a bow)

Are all shadow monks coldsteel the hedgehog

>>54664700
Clerics and druids. Some bards, rangers and paladins.

>>54664755
No. Just because you play with edgelords doesn't mean everyone does.

>>54664770
But they can teleport behind you and get advantage

>>54664789
Well it's not like they're going to teleport in front of you in a fight

>>54664770
>>54664789
But is it or is it not personnel?

>>54664848
It is very personnel kid

>>54664857
psssh

>>54664077
Bumping this in hopes of getting some mechanical feedback.

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>>54663855
I had a Lawful Evil Yaun-ti Paladin with the Noble Background and three human slaves as my retainers. He had his body wrapped in bandages at most times, wore an ornate golden mask and each day was bathed and doted on by his attendants. He claimed to be the son of a distant noble, afflicted by a leperosy and for this weakness, exiled from the family but in reality he was just a Yaun-Ti on a self-indulgant party cruise across the world looking to stroke his ego and play the great hero.

The slaves were the loyal servants of the family so didn't really care much for ideals of freedom, or at least were not vocal about it. Yes they were treat as property but they were treat as valuable property to be protected. It is the duty of the strong to protect the weak, the shepard to protect his flock from the ravenous wolves of the world. It is the burden of his strength to do so and he would selflessly defend them with body and soul because he knows the pitiable creatures cannot do it themselves.

He has a strong value to luxury and extravagance which people placed on his history as nobility, he was the kind of guy who when confronted with a few homeless citizens in the church village, would rather treat them all to an extravagant feast of meat, wine and music and spend the night learning their stories and experiences rather than spend the same donation to feed them all for a month.

Players generally just thought he was a bit of socialite bastard at times, no worse than your typical bard, but otherwise your typical selfless defender paladin. They only started to get suspicious when he occasionally spat poison spray.

>>54664924
Seems fine, but the level 6 feature isn't very flavorful.

Any cool skill homebrews?
What combat houserules do you use?

Tfw I just can't figure out what class to play for an upcoming campaign

EVERYTHING I WOULD'VE WANTED TO DO IS TAKEN UP

>>54664961
Hm. If I specified that you ran on all fours would it be better?

Or do you have a better idea for a feature?

>>54665001
You know it's not against the rules for two players to have the same class, right?

>>54665018
I just won't want to step on peoples' toes. I like playing frontline stuff but EVERYONE IS ALREADY DOING THAT

>>54665048
Then play frontline as well. Be a sibling of someone or just someone who trained with them. Hot Blooded Rivalry yo.

>>54664633
How can you even tell if someone is proficient in bagpipes?

>>54665064
If you take psychic damage.....they're proficient.

>>54665064
If they're not proficient, it's thunder damage
If they are, it's psychic damage

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>>54663946
>Expertise in rapier
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
>inhale
HHHHHAAAAHHAHAHAHA

>>54663518
It isn't even me, I'm just a bystander who got caught in the autism splashzone.

>>54665064
If they let you march in a parade presumably

>>54664478
Yeah, this is the biggest offender is with spells like Finger of Death, which simply became Xd8 Necrotic damage, or with the spell Phantasmal Killer.

What was before a Will Save or take Psy-Damage and roll a second Fort save vs death.

Now it's a Will save or be spooked, and maintan concentration then at the end of their next turn they get to roll another save to shake it off or to take a bit of damage, a literally trash spell since they get two saves and chances to break your concentration before it does anything.

It should have been like some effects are, which are saves with a "If you fail by 5" Clause. Roll a saving throw if you fail take damage, if you Fail by 5 or more, drop to 0.

Or hell, make it a 2 layer save again. Roll Intelligence save vs Illusion, if you fail take damage and a second Wisdom Save vs fear, or fall to 0. With the amount of creatures and races that have bonuses against either Illusion or Fear, and things worth their salt have Legendary resistance, this wouldn't be too imbalanced for a 4th level spell slot, or hell they could just slay the sacred cow and say "Yeah it's now a 5-6th level spell." instead of trying to fit effects into predetermined spell levels and having to change them so drastically to do so.

>>54664994
Houserules:
Short rest durations - first short rest of every day is 5 minutes.
We also use a modified initiative system but I know better than to tell /tg/ about it.
Homebrew:
I think my own stuff is reasonable and my players may use it: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1lBecRSW
Not gonna shill too hard, though. YMMV.

>>54665006
You should definitely specify that.

>>54664659
He could likely roll as a full Valor-Bard to be honest.

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>>54663946
>great skill with fencing blades

Huehuehuehuehuehuehue
>breathe in
huehuehuehuehuehue

>>54665110
>You should definitely specify that.
Shit, my bad. I had the image in my head of the Barbarian suddenly leaping forward onto his claws and feet and just tearing off after distant enemies before his rage ends. But I derped and didn't write that.

>>54665061
This game's been delayed so many times I don't want to be the cause of it. I've stated the part before here. Standard-Human Life Cleric, PS Vampire Swashbuckler, Goliath Berserker, and an unknown-circle WElf Druid (who might not be participating).
The Cleric was Haunted One because of weird shit, the Swashbuckler was a Criminal fence, and the Berserker was literally raised by wolves. Makes rivalry difficult.

>>54665006
What if your enemies had to make a WIS saving throw (becoming immune to this effect for 24 hours on a success) to hit you instead of their ally if you're within 5ft of their ally? Shapechanging to look just like their friend and confusing them in the process. Like one of those Hollywood "shoot him, I'M the real one!" Moments.

Would look like:
>Your ability to shapeshift in combat lets you take on the surface traits of your enemies in heated melee. Whenever an enemy attacks you for the first time each turn and you are raging, if you are within 5ft of another medium humanoid the attacker must make a [DC 8+Prof+Your Charisma] saving throw. On a failure, the attacker accidentally attacks the wrong target. On a success, the attacker becomes immune to this effect for 24 hours.

Also

>In addition, your duplicitous nature allows you to easily lie without breaking a sweat. You gain proficiency in the deception skill, and if you are already proficient, double your proficiency bonus for any check you make using the deception skill.

Gives the Barbarian an out of combat usefulness, (lying, as is in a skinwalker's nature), and in-combat their class identity becomes causing mass confusion in the enemy's line.

>>54665110
>We also use a modified initiative system but I know better than to tell /tg/ about it.

fucking post it faggot

New thread

>>54665310
>>54665310
>>54665310
>>54665310
>>54665310

>>54664077
That's....actually not terrible. Here's what I would change:

Take the memories out of the 10th-level feature, but you have advantage on CHA checks against the people the person knew in life—you're naturally able to adopt their mannerisms.

If the last thing you killed was not a humanoid, you are instead able to take 1 damage resistance of the last creature you killed, as well as adopting some of their physical features when raging (for flavor/fluff). This can change the next time you kill something that has a damage resistance—either take the new one, or keep the one you have.

Make it so that the wings/fins/claws and appropriate speed changes from the 14th-level feature happen only when you rage.

>>54665224
Goliaths are all about competition and rivalry though. Be a Halfling Barbarian with a complex who's constantly trying to one up the Goliath. Eventually develop a Fastball special.

>>54661895
The power of cantrips, aka shit you get for uncommon to maybe rare wands that don't even require atunnement

>>54665394
the power to mix spellcasting classes is strong, just ask bards.

>>54665308
>>54665335
I love both of these. I think I'll adopt both changes and get back to this during the next thread.

>>54664185
No half-orc?

At the same time, you don't have gnomes and I have no issues with that, so I'm a hypocrite.

Why Monk but no Wizard?

And why limit Druid and Sorcerer to multiclass? Druid is highly formative for a character's backstory. I feel like that's something you would do with Warlock, Paladin, or Cleric as the game progressed.

If you're gonna take out Fly, Teleport, and Teleportation Circle, are you taking out Transport Via Plants and and Wind Walk as well?

The thing with Alert is a pretty unique idea, actually. Kinda like that.

>>54664317
Oh yeah, that's a good idea. Do that if you're not wanting the races to interbreed at all (which is fine with me)

>>54665463
Mannerisms and CHA advantage guy here—I forgot to mention that (IMO) you should be able to keep both the humanoid thing and the damage resistance (because I don't like people having to pick between RPing and mechanical boosts) but I'm unsure how good that would be.

All in all I think it's a sweet idea, and I'll keep my eyes open for sure.

>>54664700
>>54664655
Our group uses LightShield-Shield-HeavyShield varients, but +1-3 Shields are out 4E style.

Light Shields are +1AC and the hand is considered free for small interactions, such as casting somatic components, interactions with items such as pulling a lever, loading a sling, grabbing a potion or holding a weapon, but not using a weapon to make an attack or grappling a foe.

Medium Shields are +2 AC, the Shield-hand is considered occupied.

Heavy Shields +3AC, but offer disadvantage on initative checks and require 15STR to avoid a movement speed penalty, as Fullplate.

We're still fleshing them out and getting used to them, but so far seems okay. Disadvantage sucks but doesn't make a huge difference in the long term combat, people still don't want to go last so if you're a Paladin who wants to get a spell ready, or a Fighter who likes to action-surge to crush a high threat foe in the first turn, you might take a Medium-Shield. If you're a Fighter who likes the versatility or being dynamic with the environment then you might even favour a buckler.

Also wanted to avoid having penalties to dex on the tower shield so for example if you wanted say a Spartan-Esque character in medium-armour with a tower-shield. They work great for goblins and other "Savage" races too since if you wanted them to have a better AC but without finding an excuse why there are so many suits of Kobold-sized half-plate around, you can give em a big ass wooden shield and hide armour.

I'll talk a bit about Light Shields next post. Would like some feedback if anyone wants to tell me I'm retarded and shilling.

>>54665606
The main advantage for the Buckler unfortunately means you kind of have to be stricter on the things that it will benefit. "Well Fighter, if you want to drink that potion it's your item action to sheathe your sword and I'll let you use a bonus action for another item action to grab the potion but you'll have to draw your weapon again next turn." Wheras a fighter with a Buckler can just grab the potion freely. "No Ranger, you can't make an attack while climbing the rope since you've still got one arm holding your shield so the other is climbing, if you had a Buckler you could climb the rope with that hand and still have your sword free to strike.", "No Cleric, you can't cast that spell without putting your warhammer away you need a hand free to brandish your holy symbol and I'm not letting the "My shield has my holy symbol painted on" fly now that light-shields are avaliable, you should either use that, be more selective of your spells, or accept you can't have your weapon out at all times.".

We're considering removing Shield Proficiency and just having it tie based off Armour, but some of the issues I see are there would be no reason for a Bard or Warlock to ever not use a Light Shield, Rogues too but I guess most rogues TWF or use bows. The Light-Armor prof feat or Hobgoblin race might get some more use for Wizards as at least then getting Studded Leather and a Buckler will match mage-armour. Other Armour prof feats might see some use since it's not just better armour, but a better shield. Druids and Some Clerics will lose access to Heavy-Shields, which seems fine, but so do Barbarians and Rangers.

Mountain-Dwarves become possibly too strong for casters and rogues, since a Wizard can quite happily wear a suit if Halfplate and a Shield with their wand in one hand and sit as high as AC19.

Slings are a bit better since they can be used with a Light-Shield, which is great to see, but Hand-Crossbows get the same and they are already the best ranged option.