/srg/ - Outside the Sprawl

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Anchoring from last thread.

Are there any sourcebooks about Knight Errant procedures and "company culture"? Im writing up a few stories about the knight-errant investigation into my runners.
T. the jewlery store massacre anon.

>>54635282
There might be something in one of the books about the corporations, otherwise what I'd do is use some CP2020 sourcebooks to get a basis, then Shadowrun-ify and tech-update them. Protect and Serve mixed with the Arasaka section of Corpbook 1 (I think), probably.

So, /srg/, just finished a sidequest session, where all that needed to be done was a small smuggling run to increase my Contact's Connection.

Wound up getting shot at by sorority themed chicks, ran a semi off the road, all while I had to beat the clock and make it to my date with my gf on time.

Then the elf decided to fuck with my date, seduced my my girlfriend and they both wound up getting pregnant by my orc

>>54636061
>they both wound up getting pregnant
I do not see the problem, now you have two gf

>>54636421
No, now he has two baby mommas, that's a whole bigger problem.

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Any of you trogs have any neat ideas for some small gangs?

Pic kind of related, I've been trying to come up with a name for this gang of magical girl wannabees.

>>54636695
He can just go to a local health mage and have her cast fetus deletus. Problem solved.

>>54638526
Now I'm thinking of high Cha Black mage who learns slay fetus to avoid unwanted pregnancies.

>>54636061
Congratulations, anon. You increased your Contact's Loyalty, too! That's at least a 3 or 4 Loyalty right there.

You're also going to be getting the Dependent negative quality in about 9 months.

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Help me anons, I'm doing something foolish.

I've got a technomancer with Skillwires 4/Skilljack 4. What are some good skills to buy in chip form?

>>54635206

From what I understand the world of Shadowrun outside the sprawl is like a wonderful and wild mix of Mad Max, Borderlands, and Stalker.

So, question, anons:

An androgynous elf, with 8 Charisma and 6 Con (Seduction) along with a number of points in Disguise and Impersonate, takes the following Cyber and Bioware: Modular Connector (Groin), at least two different Modular Cyber Genitals (one for each gender), Breast Implants 2.0, LED Hair, Skin Toner, False Face, Elastic Joints, Sensitive Skin (multiples to cover chest, upper back, and butt), Tactile Sensitivity, and Tailored Pheremones augmentations, in an attempt at making them as sexy as possible to as many people as possible.

Would you allow this in your game, or is it too Magical Realm?

>>54639082
Combat skills, and skills that you can use outside the Matrix in general.

>>54639110
If they were a former bunraku doll, maybe. I'd have to know more about their combat skills to say yay or nay at my table.

>>54639117
>Combat skills
Since combat will obviously be secondary for the character, I didn't know if that was a good idea because it precludes using edge to make shots count when you really need them to do so.

>>54639110
>in an attempt at making them as sexy as possible to as many people as possible.
Disallowed for this line, banned for being creepy permavirgin. If the character was supposed to be a cyberware-based disguise expert, that's one thing, but it's just fetish bait at this point.

>>54639125
Agility 6, Automatics 4, Smartlink in their glasses with an automatic pistol.

>>54639143
>Disallowed for this line, banned for being creepy permavirgin.
"I want to be as sexy as possible to as many people as possible" isn't a viable character motivation? I mean, look at what people do to themselves with plastic surgery IRL in the pursuit of better looks.

So, question: if a character has Custom Fit armored clothes and the Body Sculpt Adept Power, do their clothes resize to fit them as a result of the magic? Reading the RAW, it looks like Custom Fit clothes only stop fitting you if your physical Attributes change, and the Body Sculpt power explicitly doesn't change any of your stats, just your appearance.

>>54639541
Not that guy, but he never said it wasn't a viable character motivation.

He just said it creeped him out and you come across as a permavirgin who can't into social cues and will try to ERP where and when it's unwelcome.

You aren't gonna fit in at every table, you may as well accept that right away.

>>54639541
>isn't a viable character motivation
Not really. You've already got 9001 types of cosmetic 'ware, go be a whore somewhere else. It's pretty fucking shallow for a reason why you're committing deniable ops instead of standing on a street corner.

A desire to be attractive can be an interesting facet of a larger character, but as the main driver it's basically only there for the character to try and fuck everyone for validation, which is boring af.

>>54639581
Realistic answer: no, as a bit of bulking out/shrinking would ruin a very close tailored fit.

But this is Shadowrun, so I'd just wing it and allow it unless playing an über-Black Trenchcoat game where the players expect and want to play around such 'details'.

>>54639600
>>54639655
Related question: would it allow you to morph the appearance of any cyberware your character has installed?

>>54639707
Not him, but I'd severly limit it or even prohibit it
Cyberware is part of your aura, but not a natural part, which makes it harder to modify it. I'd personally prohibit it changing the ware

>>54639707
No, not at all.

>>54639581
By RAW it's allowable that Custom Fit still fits because it doesn't explicitly prevent it, by what the power fictionally does and what a custom-fitted piece of clothing is, no. The clothes would never resize, that's beyond the purview of Body Sculpt, and if you want to argue that the same Executive Suite fits a human woman and a wakyambi man you're a very silly person.

>>54639803
>The clothes would never resize, that's beyond the purview of Body Sculpt
They're inside the Adept's Aura, right? That's why you can Assense someone through their clothes.

>>54639899
It's the body that resizes, not everything in range of the aura. Which is why ware doesn't resize, or why when you attack someone with a powerbolt their clothing isn't affected.

>>54639899
>While the total body mass does not change dramatically, the body (skeletal bone and muscles) can be elongated, shrunken, or otherwise altered to appear like another metatype or a metavariant...

Just because something is next to you, doesn't mean it's magically a part of you.

>>54639707
I'd rule that because shifters can shifter with deltaware, you could feasible change deltaware to some degree, it would depend what exactly you wanted to change.

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Are there any specifics on the testing procedures for kids/adults to see if they are Awakened?

The best I can find are oblique references to a 'Dumas test', and that testing is generally done to school-age children to catch them early. No specifics on what the test actually is or how it's administered.

>>54641222
Step 1: bring mage along
Step 2: have mage assense kids
Step 3:???
Step 4: Hire/acquire any awakened kid.

The only ones that can got through such a net are technomancers, since detecting Resonance require one hell of a godly roll. Detecting 'mere' Awakening, anyone capable of astral sight can do in its sleep.

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>>54641455
But the Dumas test goes back to '27 when such things were very primitive, and even nowadays there aren't enough spare astrally perceptive individuals to cycle through every classroom in every village, town, and sprawl in the world, especially when there's lots of other demands on their time and talents. It's implied that testing is all-but-universal if you have a SIN, but that's hundreds of millions of children being searched by tens of thousands of mages.

>>54638719
Nah, the Contact was not the one that got GREENED. It was our mage, who is a Jap pop star.

>>54641930
It's not like sending a mage over for one day each year to just take a look at the kids in a given school is some kind of extreme logistic effort; like organizing a class photo shoot.

Sure, you'll miss a couple sick/skipping/the mage bungling his assensing; but you'd bag most of them easily.

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>>54639082
bump. And say what you want about Complete Trog, the art is pretty good (even if the people doing art for the stories appear to have only read them as thirdhand tweets).

>>54643627
Yeah in general 5E has done well on artists (maybe they actually got paid), but I can't help seeing thick whiskers (or like a moustache of sorts) on her face in that picture unless I look closely.

>>54637084
Nico Nico needless

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>>54644215
And for people who are supposedly writing a book all about orcs and trolls, they have no clue what the fuck they are supposed to look like. This is supposed to be orc actress Kat Berg.

In my current campaign the party went to an area of Alaska that had been terraformed by inter-dimensional invaders. The air was mostly breathable since the terraforming had been halted by UCAS and CSA militaries but some of the critters from the invaders dimension still wander about.
Really they're monsters from DND I've converted.
Works better than I thought

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>reading CT
>suddenly 4 pages on Spanish history to catch us up with them in recent years

Anyone have any interesting house rules or bending of the rules? Our GM likes to make faustian deals with us.

As an example, a few sessions ago I decided my phys adept sam really Really needed a weapon focus (damn spirit nearly ruined the previous run and TPKd us. Couldnt rely on just the mage.)
Asked my low loyalty/high connection contact for a good place to get my katana enchanted. Dice were rolled (poorly on my part) and my GM asked if i wanted a "double-edged deal." Contact said he'd do me one better and told me of a dojo with some secret forbidden chi technique to make any blade a force 4 foci. With the help of our decker I was able to sneak on in and grab the scroll suspiciously easy. Turns out contact tipped the dojo off as to who stole their shit immediately after and then hopped town. Turns out its Triad run. Turns out, the technique also makes the blades fragile and gives it a 50% chance to break after each swing.

TLDR:
>Ask contact for katana foci, roll poorly.
>get info on secret weeaboo technique instead.
>steal secret scroll, contsct snitches me out to dojo.
>have the Triad constantly trying to ambush me at home
>any blade can be a focus but 50% chance of breaking.

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>>54645668
Sounds like a good reason to buy 10 survival knives.

>>54646019
>incisions/lines on the arms and head
>cybernetic looking eyes
>adept

>>54646318
It might be a ruse. Like dressing the tank up in wizard robes.

>>54644878
That was one of the few good parts of the book.

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>>54646318
>not getting cosmetic scarification

It's like you don't even punk

>>54646513
anon, he has lights in his arms
which counts as an essence costing ware
are you willing to reduce your essence for being easier to hit?

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>>54646531
Counterpoint

>>54646531
Just some really tiny lights with a sticky coating on the backside. No harder to apply than a pair of googly eyes.

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So do the Street Samurai follow the bushido code or is it just their name ?

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>>54647201
yes, go read Run Faster

>>54647201
That is a taboo topic round here. Please desist.

>tfw you had a really fun run planned out, and your players were really into it at the beginning of the night
>you get pretty drunk halfway through and rush them through cliffnotes of the climactic parts

:(

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>>54647201
They could if they wanted to. Plenty of Street Samurai live martial lives and aspire to martial ideals, but it's not inherently true. The name is mostly a title to pick out the real deal bad asses from the average street thug.

>>54647232
Will do as soon as they deliver the book to me.
>>54647241
You're not serious are you ? Do people argue whether or not they should follow it or what ?
>>54647284
Ok, that one makes sene.

>>54647394
>Do people argue whether or not they should follow it or what ?
yes chummer they do
that is the problem
because once started the thread is then filled with nothing BUT discussion about it.

>>54647394
oh, and:
>Will do as soon as they deliver the book to me.
DO NOT BUY CGL BOOKS
DO NOT GIVE THEM MONEY
ALL BOOKS ARE IN THE OP PASTEBIN

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>>54647394
It it perhaps one of the most famous arguments on this general and it completely derails the thread every single goddamn time.

>>54647201
>>54647394

Not specifically bushido, but a Code of Honor is what separates you from the amoral mercenaries who, for a very long period of time lorewise, have been known to have a bitter rivalry. Many Mercs won't work with Street Sams because they get in the way of money making, and Street Sams won't work with Mercs because they are unscrupulous.

Some people like to have the title without the effort.

>>54647505
A person doesn't even have to be a Sam to have a proper code-of-honor. Wasn't there a whole dumb jackpoint section about how this honorable assassin guy wrecked Clockwork's fancy new drone and let the target go cause Clock wanted to geek some women who were in the way?

>>54647654
Oh yeah, not everybody with a Code is a Street Sam, but every Street Sam has a Code.

>>54647464
I'm not going to read 100-300 page pdfs of text, I'm not fucking mad. I use them for reference but I prefer physical copies at the table, always did.
>>54647448
Everyone's asleep at this time so no one is going to bother anyway. The thread is barely moving at the moment.
>>54647505
>>54647654
Doesn't code of honor get into the way of well, shadowrunning ? Having to kill people like an old security guard that's just doing his nine to five and shit.

>>54647784
Which is why Stick-n-Shock and intimidation exists.

>>54647784
Sure it can get in the way of running, its why its a negative quality. Still, that shouldn't stop someone from taking it and having a code. You don't have to (and probably shouldn't) kill the old security guard; there are other options. Chloroform, non-lethal CQC, stick'n'shock, straight up convincing him its not worth the fight.

Is this a good twist?
>building spider is highly effective
>goes rogue
>rampages through facility, killing all staff with slammed doors and vented air and autoturrets and robot arms
>runners are hired to deal with spider
>when they finally get to the control coccoon, it is a bloody mess
>something else has been pretending to be him this whole time

Where do the runners go from there? And what should the thing be that's been doing the spider work? I'm leaning towards AI, but am up for good ideas.

>>54648479
Swarm of technocritters
Now they have to take back control by using cybercombat and meat space combat on the bugs

>>54648510
>techno-roach hivemind
Burn it to the ground.

>>54648523
>Not wanting to become part of the hivemind

It's like you want to be alone forever

>>54648562
Said the bug spirit.

>>54648582
>>54648562
>>54648523
>>54648510
>technoroaches take over facility and kill everyone
>begin arranging the corpses into strange arcane patterns
>the mundane tech roaches are attempting a magical blood ritual to summon bug spirits

Is this too many twists?

>>54648603
>Final twist, it was all arranged by the janitor who got fired because the manager saw a bug in his office

>>54644555
>they have no clue what the fuck they are supposed to look like
Admittedly, that much you can brush off under various augmentations.

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>>54648603
It's not how mana works, for one thing.

A technocritter (or paracritter) isn't necessarily any smarter than a regular critter, just like a capuchin isn't smarter than a chimpanzee just because it has a tail it can use to grab things. It just has evolved to fit a certain ecological niche. The roaches don't have anywhere near the kind of knowledge to perform a magic ritual, or magic of any sort - they're still likely to scatter when the kitchen light is turned on.

>>54647201
All Street Samurai follow A code, but not necessarily THE code.

>>54648603
Better, techno bug spirits straight from the resonance.

>>54648742
Yeah, but magic nigga.

>>54648742
But what if you take 5,000 capuchins and wirelessly network their brains into a super-entity?
How many monkeys do you need to make something smarter than a monkey?

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>>54648740
Sticking horns on an orc is not an 'must be augmentation' thing. Every troll seems to have their dermal deposits scraped off (except for a few strategically placed on the arms), so which ones have horns are pretty much the only way CGL leaves us to figure out which is which.

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>>54648781
They don't get smarter, though. Just like you can't pile a bunch of ants together and watch them start performing Bach.

E-Hive is them networking and what it does is gives them a stronger Resonance.

>>54648771
>Yeah, but magic nigga.
The laziest answer, especially in a setting where magic is rigorously and scientifically studied, and we have generally clear ideas about what is possible and what is bullshit.

>>54648861
Hive organisms do get a bit "smarter" when there are lots of them, though. As in, more able to solve complex problems.

I figure actually wiring them together instead of using reacharound pherimone systems would have an even greater effect.

>>54648896
problem is:
>how would they understand magic?
>Why would they want to summon bug spirits?

>>54648913
Oh, I thought you were arguing against them being smart, period.
As for magic motives, I thought the unspoken understanding is that they were linked to bug spirits in some way due to being bugs.

>>54648931
Chummer, bugs don't like other bugs when they are the same type of matter
why would they like bugs that aren't even that?
Why introduce a potential rival?
What would they gain from doing that?

And I'm not the other anon, but I do agree that even if they were connected their brains do not work in the same way we do and are focused on one task. Even if you have dozens of vectors of type (x,y,0), you'll never be able to create a vector of type (0,0,z)

>>54648990
I gotta disagree on the brain thing, everything we've found out about neural networks is that they are scary after they stop being retarded. Which is a function of how big the network is and what it is being trained to do, more than any initial program.

Magic I can take or leave, it was sort of an idea I tossed out there. Might go along the lines of the other guy who suggested summoning resonance bugs, or possibly making cockroach filled drones.

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>>54648931
You're talking to two different people. I'm against saying they are smart, at least insofar as their actual intelligence is increased. They become more capable of solving problems, but from what I know this is not them becoming better thinkers (for example, beehives with many members are able to find better nesting grounds, but that's because they look at more areas and 'debate' them, not because the proximity of bees next to each other gives them the brains of a real estate agent).

Also, bug spirits have literally nothing to do with bugs. You can argue that they are related to the Earthdawn concept of Horrors needing to be defined before they can come into our world. Insect Spirits aren't Horrors, but they're from metaplanes on the road there. What in metahuman minds better encapsulates a soulless hivemind, bent only on consumption and procreation, then a swarm of insects?

>>54649036
>they get smarter, but not because they're better thinkers
It doesn't matter whether or not the chinese room is or is not actually intelligent.

>>54649060
It does with magic, especially conducting a ritual to contact the farthest metaplanes and striking a bargain with the spirits therein.

>>54649128
Man, it matters way less that you know what you are doing when it comes to magic. People are all the time accidentally summoning horriffic shit.
Though, it is a fair point that resonant bugs probably won't have magic.

>>54649060
It does matter whether the improvement is in scope or in power.
Is the swarm capable of things the individual entities can't, or is it just more powerful in the areas the entities are already capable of?
AFAIK they are the second type, meaning that they won't just willy-nilly summon spirits, since that isn't something they have to deal with.
Your sound analyser may be the best in the world, but it still will be confused when offered some economics data

>>54649157
>People are all the time accidentally summoning horriffic shit.
What? Where do you read that?

>>54649167
As a neural network, it'll improve in scope as it is exposed to new scope.
That's how they work.

>>54649186
That's the entire premise of how shit like bug spirits and horrors get here in the first place. Some idiot summons a thing that they aren't prepared for and don't know how to handle. Or just accidentally appears them when they weaken the veil with too much blood magic.

>>54649191
But that's not how technocritters work. Digits=/= neural networks.

>>54649231
So, what would you call a bunch of neurons networked together then, if you are arguing they aren't a neural network?

>>54649240
a hive mind
a group of processors capable of transmitting data between them to increase their calculation power.
Think multi-core processors

>>54649273
But if you get a bunch of processors together, and put them in a neuron-like setup, they increase in scope. That's the basis of modern neural network computer design.

>>54649240
I would call it 'read the fucking book, then you'll learn what e-hives and technocritters are and how they don't for any kind of symbiotic or parallel thought process, literally all they do is increase the hive's Resonance while they all individually do bug things like walk about and eat'.

I get it, you read about neural networks in a Slate article and now you're all hot and bothered, but that's not what's happening here.

>>54649298
Man, I hate it when shadowrun can't keep up with actual progress in the fields it is talking about.

>>54649293
>and put them in a neuron-like setup
which isn't given here
neuron-like setup =/= just connected
it means that each component cares for one part and the connections between them are weighted.
a hive mind is just that each part can access the information of all the other parts, which is already a massive boost. But it doesn't make it a neural network

>>54649343
What does make it a neural network setup is that it is literally running on neurons.

>>54648742
The flour makes it through the sieve, but not all of it makes it into the bowl. The more flour you use, the greater the chance people will notice you're spilling flour everywhere.

>>54649186
There's a ritual spell that can be performed by anyone and allows you to summon spirits you can't otherwise summon, with the caveat that you might summon something unintended.

>>54649359
it makes it a network based on neurons, not a neural network
or rather a network based on neural networks

>>54649388
sure, but how widely known is that ritual?

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>>54649339
This isn't Shadowrun not keeping up, this is you not understanding what technocritters are.

The Resonance isn't 'raw computing power that makes you smarter'; access to it, or lack thereof, has no bearing on intelligence in any way, or any sort of ability to find and parse specific data. All that Resonance scores do is that they allow beings to interact with the Matrix without needing mechanical intervention.

When you give that to a metahuman, they can turn it to their advantage because they understand the complex rules by which the Matrix and society interact. When you give it to an animal with a brain the size of a pinhead, they notice a new food source.

>>54649359
stahp

>>54649396
>sure, but how widely known is that ritual?
As common as you want and / or need it to be for your game(s).

>>54649396
So you're networking neural networks together, eh?
Almost like some kind of neural network.

>>54649403
It's pretty clearly an example of shadowrun not keeping up, though.
If it was keeping up, it would realize how networked neurons work.

>>54649424
No, because they aren't networking. So you have the neural networks of individual bugs in isolation, existing within physical proximity to each other.

>>54649424
anon, I am slowly suspecting that what you may lack is a neural network

>>54649442
Man, that's even stupider than essence.

>>54649487
Shadowrun's like that.
Most of it is "no, it doesn't make any sense, but roll with it because the writers quit two editions ago".

Basically, change it as you see fit when you run into stupid bits like these.

>>54648990
>Implying that the janitor that created them isn't a Bug Shaman working with some mad scientist

>>54649540
>created them
???
AFAIK there isn't a way to create technocritters, same as you can't create paracritters, technomancers or awakened

>>54649577
My bad, I didn't know that technocritters were animal technomancers.

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>>54649615
This better be your first post in the thread.

>>54649615
>I didn't know that technocritters were animal technomancers.
have you been arguing in this discussion without knowing what a technocritter is?

>>54649648
First post on the subject of technocritters. And I may have shortened it incorrectly. I should have said Matrix accessing animals.

>>54649650

I posted the one post with the assumption that technocritters were cybernetically augmented.

I know better now.

>>54649510
You can, however, breed technocritters, due to their tendency to have a huge amount of them in a swarm.

>>54649727
goes to
>>54649577

>>54649727
For bugs, sure - throw a few thousand darts and some will hit. Most technocritters aren't insects, and they haven't specified what the rules are for inheritance of Resonance talent in people or animals until Slamm-0! and NetCat's kid inevitably turns out to be one. They've had a lot more time to study Awakened inheritance, and even there it's pretty much a shrug.

>>54649750
well, that, and technocritters just sort of naturally assemble in swarms anyway.

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>>54649801
Stop conflating digits and technocritters, please. Also, afaik there's nothing saying that they are naturally drawn to cohabitate, other than the likely evolutionary pressure for hives with a digit:normie ratio to succeed.

>>54649917
Well, except for that whole pile of rules indicating they may be massed together, and giving rules for that.

>>54649917
Man I know what a technocritter is, but I've never heard of a "digit".

>>54649962
Digits are technobugs
So what he is saying is that technobugs assemble in swarms, but other technocritters (such as technomice, technocats, technosnakes, etc.) don't

>>54649985
I am almost certain other technocritters do.
Or at least, the rules strongly imply they do.

>>54650020
do you mean swarm as in a group of critters or do you mean the actual swarm POWER, that allows them to increase their RES by the swarm size?
Because AFAIK only Digits get the Swarm Power

>>54650046
I've seen crows with it.

>>54649950
There are rules for what happens if a creature with E-Hive is near similar creatures (their communal Resonance goes up, leading to the aforementioned evolutionary pressure because they are more likely to succeed). It says nowhere that these things have to be close to each other, or are even likely to be found close to each other, only the off-hand mention that one digit is pretty useless to a shadowrunner.

>>54650020
The only creatures that have E-Hive, and thus benefit from having a number of fellow Emerged animals with them, are digits (bugs) and rooks (birds, especially corvids). Dolphins, dogs, all kinds of pack animals don't have that power.

http://www.spoon-tamago.com/2017/08/01/nature-is-reclaiming-fukushimas-abandoned-areas/

>>54648479
Why didn't the people hiring the runners just call the HTR?

>>54650726
The same reason essence exists.

>>54650774
It's actually a legit question. The SCIRE had space for runners being employed by Renraku because they needed to keep people from noticing what the fuck was going on in there, which sending in squads of uniformed goons would not allow (first response was Renraku soldiers, until they worked out what was happening).

If there is a malfunction that kills an entire facility, why would they need deniable assets there? You send in your own guys to find out what the fuck happened, because maybe what happened was a bunch of shadowrunners hired by someone else are in there wrecking the joint. And if they already know what happened (or at least think that it's a rogue spider) they have no reason not to handle that in-house. Have him hauled out and, depending on corporate attitudes, shot and buried in a ditch, or publicly tried and degraded so that his family must work forever to remove the shame.

>>54651264
Forgot to mention: Official Renraku and UCAS troops were there right up until the end, publicly guarding the facility and rescuing people (or at least acting like they were trying). Runners were used by the Japs to try and cover up what the problem originally was, to extract persons and materials that could implicate upper management and the corp at large in this or any other shady activity, or work from other people to gather data or rescue VIPs.

>>54651264
I didn't say it was illigitimate, I said it was handwaved.
I mean, I guess we can try to come up with non-handwave reasons.

Technomancer splat when? Has there been any update since the Fading errata?

>>54651404
You compared it to Essence, which isn't a handwave so much as it is a game mechanic that is also grounded in the fiction. And every run should have a reason why it's being contracted out to freelance mercenaries who aren't even on the bottom rungs of society, but legally on a whole other ladder.

>>54651432
>Technomancer splat when?
Half past the last thousand times the question has been asked.

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>>54651432
Possibly going to be a new Matrix book in 2018 that will include the content from Echoes and Mirages, but until that happens or something changes, TM book is dead.

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>>54651432
>>54651444
>>54651477

I'm playing my first technomancer now (second generation Arcology survivor, teenager from a scarred family situation who thinks the haters might be right, that Deus tampered with her at the germline) and it's giving me some insight into them for trying to houserule a fix for them in lieu of the book.

What do you guys do, if anything, to balance technomancers?

My situation is doubly complex in that I've been reducing gear and deck costs to closer to 4e levels, largely because I have a hard time buying the idea of all these independent hackers running around with quarter-million plus nuyen hardware. Thus, I probably need to boost technomancers even more.

So, I'm thinking a significant reduction in drain for complex forms; what other things would be easy to implement and helpful, though?

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>>54652260
I mean you could tool around with/approach your GM with Ends of the Matrix. The rules for technos found therein are pretty... interesting (in a good way).

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>>54652260
The problems with technomancers aren't necessarily problems with technomancers themselves, it's more of an endemic issue with the Matrix itself. I dodged around it by replacing the matrix system wholesale with the Ends of the Matrix variant that basically turns deckers and technomancers into mages and shamans, casting spells to do shit.

Some people have posited that a good fix would be to give technomancers discounts to cyberware, but that'd mostly just create gun bunnies that happen to have a resonance score.

Reducing drain for complex forms doesn't really help either, it just means that your TM's going to burn a bunch more time casting spells before they do the actual hard work of hacking.

Honestly, they just need a complete rebuild. I'd kind of like to see something that justifies the fear people have of technomancers, like they get bonuses according to the number of devices they have slaved to their living persona or something but the devices take Matrix damage over time, so you've got technomancers co-opting people's shit in order to get more powerful, but it all explodes in a fiery mess after a few days so they leave behind this swathe of destruction in their wake. No sure how to balance it or make sure it doesn't become two hours of 'watch the TM hack all the toasters at costco before a run'. Maybe they can use them as reagents or something, that'd be neat.

My last Shadowrun campaign ended on a sloppy raid on a Bioware clinic. The characters split with the loot, but we put the game down that afternoon and have moved on for a bit. I've been considering what the next thing will be. Thinking of a sequel campaign, but considering some settings. What is Shadowrun's Vancouver like?

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>recoil stacks until the character takes a simple or complex action which does not involve shooting
>the very next page, their example takes cover as a simple action but keeps his recoil modifier
Don't they proofread their shit

>>54654096
No. It took you that long to realize it?

>>54654143
I'm not inclined to think too badly of people who write things down.

>>54654096
Recoil continuity was errata'd from requiring a complex action / full action phase without firing a weapon. Also, the examples are notoriously bad.

So, character idea:

She was born in one of the Azzies "dryad farms" and taken away from her mother when very small to be trained as a honeypot spy/assassin akin to Black Widow from Marvel. They cybered her up with the stuff from >>54639110 along with a Simrig and Implanted Commlink, neutering her in the process of installing the Modular Connector for the cyber genitals, then started brainwashing her with tech (including Programmable ASIST Biofeedback machines) and magic; as a result, she's no longer capable of remembering what gender she was prior to her neutering. They then gave her a course of hormone therapy designed to lead her to develop an androgenous appearance designed to be able to appeal to as many people as possible.

During this process she began having increasingly erotic dreams of being visited by a succubus, that eventually led to her Awakening as a Speaker's Way Adept following her first mission (gathering blackmail material on one of the CEOs of Aztechnology's subsidiaries). Additionally, her magic seemed to have compensated for the lost Essence by causing her to develop the Totemic Mask: when she starts to use her magic, glowing heart-shaped "tattoos" start to appear on her body, and then when she really gets going, ghostly horns appear sprouting from her head as bat wings and a spade-tipped tail sprout from her back.

Realizing how much more effective her Adept magic had made her (Improved Ability (Con) 4, Facial Sculpt 1, Body Sculpt, Improved Reflexes 1, Kinesics 3, Voice Control 1), the Azzies refrained from adding any more cyberware to her, but instead used blood magic to bind her under the command of one of their blood mage managers, who used her both for his personal pleasures as well as for the official company business.

When he died during the Azzie/Amazonia war, she promptly adopted a different identity using her shapeshifting magic and cyberware, and then fled the country, eventually wind up [wherever the campaign is set].

Thoughts?

>>54654589
The exemples wouldn't be needed if their explanations weren't even worse. The addiction rules are nigh-incomprehensible.

>>54655348
The addiction rules are a fuckup unto themselves, where it seems someone took the advanced addiction rules from 4e via twitter dictation from a parkinson's victim, filled in the gaps with random words, and then pushed it past CGL's obligatory blind editor-in-chief without even pretending to get it checked.

Nothing to do with examples, though.

How much fun could I have with non-lethal bullets full of movie blood?

>>54654773
Depends on few questions
>are you a virgin?
>are you the anon making oni tsundere street sam?
>are you imagining anime trap whos eyes go heart shaped and drools with mentor mask activated, you fucking weeb?

>>54655516
Not as much as with paint grenades filled with ultraglide

>>54655562
>are you a virgin?
I'm a wizard.
>are you the anon making oni tsundere street sam?
I make a lot of characters, yes. Don't get to play most of them.
>are you imagining anime trap whos eyes go heart shaped and drools with mentor mask activated, you fucking weeb?
No. She tends to adopt whatever her targets find most appealing, so unless her target had a trap fetish, she wouldn't be a trap. She'd wear clothes appropriate to whichever gender she was currently using.

Also, her Mentor Mask is more like the Pleasure Runes from Monster Girls Encyclopedia (but temporary and glowing rather than permanent tattoos - she might get some permanent tattoos as a Qi Foci as she gains money/karma from adventuring, but none at chargen), combined with the moment from this video where Scanty and Kneesocks have glowing wings and tails:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxRR6J1ZYAw

>>54655830
Your raiting is:
Allowed for play only on F-list

>>54656091
>Allowed for play only on F-list
>F-list
>implying that I would ever play with furries

>>54656132
you're not better than furries

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>>54635206
>What weird and wonderful places have your runners been to out of the Sprawl lately?
Our main combat character is an ork who grew up in a small, isolated village in what used to be SE Alaska, near Juneau. She was descended from several dozen orks who fucked of innawoods when Goblinization first hit, and in the generations since then (her Great Grandmother was in that Goblinization generation) they'd had zero contact with the outside world.

With hatchets and bows, they had limited farming and a lot of subsistence hunting, but they did well for themselves. Automobiles and electricity were like mythical creatures and magic to the younger generation - poorly-understood concepts that they'd never experienced, and which none of the founders had any real scientific understanding of.

In the mid-60s, while the rest of the world was dealing with the aftermath of Crash 2.0, they got hit by gang/cult of ghouls working under a wendigo. The village was destroyed, and the survivors fled south and west. They got nabbed by men on horses with metal armor, dragged off to something halfway between a Swords & Sorcery gladiatorial pit and a post-apocalyptic scrap city. Someone had carved out a small kingdom in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, in the Salish lands.

Eventually, she Awakened as an Adept and managed to flee. Got involved in banditry, treasure hunting, and other adventuring. Eventually, though, her orbit brought her in out of the post-apocalyptic fantasy world of the wild and she landed herself in the barely-comprehensible Seattle (after a brief visit to the Tir).

Half of our runs out into the wild lands have been to settle scores for that character. Helping their old bandit gang escape from the Salish. Freeing the rest of her people from slavery. Hunting down and killing the wendigo's cult - several of its current ghouls being her own family members.

I'd like to try a game like that focused on Bumfuck Asia someday.

>>54656285
Arguably worse than furries, because you can see those cunts coming when their buttplugs dangle out of their pants.

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>>54639110
>LED Hair
Fiber Optic Hair isn't realistic-looking color-changing hair. It's this. It's transparent strands of glass when inactive, and glows in the colors and patterns of your choosing when active.

>>54653610
>What is Shadowrun's Vancouver like?

Full of Chinese.

>>54647784
>I'm not going to read 100-300 page pdfs of text, I'm not fucking mad. I use them for reference but I prefer physical copies at the table, always did.
It's not about preferring pdf or hard copy, it's about do not give CGL any fucking money. They steal money from their writers and intentionally release poor titles just to keep the cash flowing in. They don't even pay for editors for their books.

They're a bad company, and by paying them you're paying the people stealing from the folks actually writing the game you like.

Don't give CGL any money. Do not buy their books. Or, if you must buy their books, try to find them second-hand, so that CGL doesn't get any of your money from the purchase.

>>54656132
Just going to put this out there, but most characters on f-list aren't furries.

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>>54657170
At some point you should pay attention to things that have happened in the past half-decade or so. Check some dates.

>>54657109
>Full of Chinese.
So just normal Vancouver, then.

>>54657228
I'm not talking about the embezzlement - I'm talking about them refusing to pay freelancers, refusing to hire editors, and so forth. They're continuing all of their shitty business practices - doubling down on some of them. It's just nobody's stealing directly from the company coffer itself to pay for home repairs anymore.

Maybe you should be paying attention to what's been happening.

>>54657309
Aside from the fact that they paid the freelancers years ago, and the people who had publicly said "we haven't been paid" went out and said, "We are now paid." They do have several editors working for them; they're just bad at their job, because Hardy sucks as a line developer.

You can say that they're bad at running an RPG company and I'll agree with you all day, but coming up with stupid and easily proven false lies like not paying their editors is retarded.

>>54657099
>This hair is not only available in every imaginable color but is programmable, allowing for patterns, designs, or scrolling effects that nature could never manage. From sparkling stars in a nightscape of black to an explosion of neon colors to a scrolling advert for your favorite hair salon, the only real limit is one’s imagination.

This isn't your 2017 fibre optic hair. Also, there's stuff in Hard Targets if you can't handle FOH being a variety of things.

So, some house rules I was thinking of using. Anyone willing to point out any unclear wording, unthought other results, or just critique my bad taste in pithy names?

1. It's a Complex Dance: Melee attacks can now be made with a simple action in addition to a complex one. If you make a melee attack with a complex action, choose a target and an Interrupt action. You can gain the benefit of that Interrupt action against the target at a discount of 5 initiative. If the target was the same as the target of your melee attack, the discount is 10 instead.

2. Give Fixation a Worth: If a preparation that has had Fixation used on it is used, all the karma invested is regained. If the preparation is destroyed, roll edge. Each hit preserves one karma, to a max of the karma spent.

3.Only Professionals Get Flashbacks: Basically "I Know A Guy" but for disposable gear or situations. The edge spent determines the quality of the gear or situation. 1 Edge gives jury-rigged junk that is better than nothing or allows 'setting up' a situation that negates some expected penalty by a point. 3 Edge gives actual gear worth 5k, or a situation that can negate a larger penalty entirely or give a two die bonus. 5 Edge can give gear worth more than 5k, but it is jury rigged or otherwise limited in use. Edge spent on this is tied up as per "I Know A Guy".

This last one is a bit plot related, so it's less likely to change.

4. Soul of the 2050s: When mostly filled with standard and alpha grade cyberware, people can live even after reaching 0 Essence. Negative .01 is only technically livable for a runner. Any lower is a quick death sentence on a runner's lifestyle and a slow one on more sedate people.

Do you guys populate local BBS and Datahavens with posts?

I'm currently running a game with some new players and I'm shitposting with myself to keep them abreast of current events and adding flavor to Dallas. as well as populating the shadows with a handful of people that could give them a helping hand or a punch in the face if they're hired to run against the PCs.

What's the Shadowrun equivalent of a $100 mosin or grandpappy's old double-barrel shotgun?

>>54658997
Marlin 79s is the cheapest shittiest rifle.

>>54658997
AR-15

>>54658997
>grandpappy's old double-barrel shotgun
It's not a double-barrel, but the cheapass shotgun that your grandpa used for hunting varmints, hellhounds, and tresspassers is the Defiance T-450. It doesn't get cheaper than that.

>$100 mosin
SVD. Only 800 nuyen, it hits about as hard as a decent assault rifle and comes in unopened military surplus crates from a nationstate that hasn't existed in decades - just like a mosin.

Neither of these are properly good guns. For just a little extra, you can get firearms that outperform the shit out of them. But both are either at or near the bottom price-in-class, and both perform perfectly decently as a weapon, if not compared to a combat shotgun or whatever.

>>54658997
>>54659349
>Get SR Mosin.
>Install weapon voice mod to have it shout "A NUUUU CHEEKI BREEKI" with each shot.
>Annoy friend and enemy alike with your slavness

>>54657067
i like it. it is fresh to me.

>>54659625
Lacks armored tracksuit

Have you ever posed as a johnson and hired your own crew because you wanted some help for your personal business but didn't want them to know?

>>54660788
Like, in real life?
Because I do have a thing I want done involving an experimental anti-mosquito laser grid.

>>54661153
>experimental anti-mosquito laser grid.
these already exist and aren't experimental anymore

>>54661286
I thought they were still experimental.
When did they stop being experimental?

>>54661320
since their widespread use in african farms?

>>54637084
Techno. Barbarians.

>>54661352
They want to use them in Africa. As far as I can find, they're still testing photonic fences, and have not licensed the tech for commercial use as recently as 2016 (the latest article I can find, which points out that earlier publications jumped the gun because they took the company starting down that path to mean that a deal was signed), with field trials planned for the third quarter of that year.

https://www.fastcompany.com/3059127/what-happened-to-the-mosquito-zapping-laser-that-was-going-to-stop-malaria

>>54661352
I had no idea. not doubting you but are there any sources out?

>>54658513
Thanks, one of my players has a high-edge street sam so they'll love 1 and 3. Here's my extremely brief human shield homebrew in exchange-

>net hits on a clinch test count as automatic successes on defense tests against ranged attacks
>ranged attacks that miss by less than or equal to the clinch's net hits strike the human shield instead
>character controlling the clinch can move 1 extra meter per net hit

>>54660718
>not avoiding enemy bullets by squatting under their trajectory
It's like you haven't downed an entire bottle of vodka in the past hour or something.

>>54661419
I have a mighty need for a "Murder everything with wings" laser field. People need to get their shit together and get these things out on the market.

>>54661478
Maybe that guy was right to hire a runner team.

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>>54652923
>>54652260
I'd agree with Yekka here, technomancers need a full rework.

To me I'd devellop them away from their current form as just "Mages but on the matrix" because it limits them. I'd go away with drain entirely, instead opting for something that uses CM as a resource. Take CM from a device to use a complex form, the more strong the form, the higher the CM cost. The idea could merge with hacking as a whole, you could use your own devices to cast complex forms, or you could hack hostile devices and essentially drain them of their CM to boost your own devices or cast complex forms. I think the issue with my idea here is that we remove the personal threat

One of the path that might be interesting to see is how differently they can affect devices. For one I would give technomancers the ability to affect cyberware and then possibly biology throught technology. One of the interesting thing in Ends of the Matrix to me was the brainjacking ideas and concepts. It would make them truly terrifying since Datajacks and DNIs are extremely common and are thought to be near-unbreachable. The idea would be that a very strong technomancer could cause targeted amnesia, extract data directly from the brain or in some very very extreme case, cause bodily harm throught electrical current. The idea with cyberware would be similar, they could lower initiative of cybered up characters using wired reflexes, temporarily cause reducement of efficiency of a certain cyberware like pain editor for example. The idea wouldn't be that they'd "brick" the cyberware" just cause it temporary malfunctions. Some very very extreme complex forms would allow partial destruction, but the cost would be equivalent.

I like the idea of them using other devices for power and then having them explode but it kinda pigeonholes them quite quickly. A technomancer should have a wide range of choice as a character, if you make them all the time cause harm, then it very quickly becomes antagonistic.

>>54661655
The problem with Technomancers is that they're literally been written out of the lore - and they were barely in it in the first place. Every time there's a section in anything on Technomancers, it's always some, "Oh, shit, right, we have to give Technomancers some content' bullshit, and it never touches any other part of the setting in any way.

Take 'ware as an example. 'Ware is touched by most other parts of the setting, and vice versa. Its interaction with magic - from enchanting, to essence loss, to Health spells. Its interaction with Decking, where security, wireless functionality, and so forth latch on.

But Technomancers? Technomancers only interact with 'ware insofar as they're piggybacking off of Deckers' stuff.

They could be written completely out of the setting in a way that no other Archetype could be - the only thing you'd even lose is Horizon would no longer have its shady Technomancer labs and Clockwork would be less of a cunt.

The problem with Technomancers isn't in their mechanics. It's that they're completely tangential to the setting in a way that no other archetype is.

>>54661859
>The problem with Technomancers isn't in their mechanics. It's that they're completely tangential to the setting in a way that no other archetype is.

Amen!

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>>54661859
Yeah so by giving them more comprehensive mechanics that affect a lot more things then maybe they'll become more important to the setting.

Part of the reason they're so much on the side is their recent arrival. Prior to Crash 2.0 they didn't exist so it's hard to make them as relevant as Mages or as Cyberware which has existed for half a century in game.

If you make Technomancers capable of fixing the massive CFD fucking CGL thought would be fun, and then make them a human counter to AIs in the grand scheme of things it's fine.

I think both are linked here, if technos are only like special deckers, it makes sense that they're left to the side from most of the world, if you make them the next step in human-machine evolution, then you're talking something interesting.

>>54661859
Honestly, thinking like that I'd rather just give deckers a skinlink ware/quality option and make it safer to have a deck in your head. Perhaps have a quality that is a virtual deck in their brain meats, the more levels of it the better a 'deck.'
I don't think a whole lot of people are into technomancers because sprites, they are into being able to hack with your mind.

>>54662011
Which you already do when in VR/using DNI.

>>54661859
I think another problem is actually mechanical neglect combined with extreme echo dependency. A lot of really vital stuff is put behind echos, and any time they want to expand a technomancer's capabilities, its put into an echo.

This means that a technomancer at this point needs like 6 echos to even get started at a good point.

Their fading values are bonkers, but there is enough there for them to work as an archtype if some shit was taken out of echos and put into qualities, complex forms, or even given to them for free.

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>>54661859
I'd argue that technomancers, and the Resonance in general, seem to be core to where CGL wants to take the setting. Remember that they were the crux of the last big metaplot event (Crash 2.0), which set the stage for the modern Matrix.

As well, CGL seems to want to take things to a more wild world, for want of a better term. The UMT paradigm is breaking down as mana revs up, Infected are getting more feral and powerful, nanites have been rolled back to prevent the whole world from being so easily dominated by technology in way that nanosystems allow, and the Matrix is now built on so many dead layers, which are so globally pervasive, that technocritters are coming out in force, as are protosapient AI. The Corporate Court are the only people angling for globalization to continue, and they explicitly have to do it in secret and with misdirection because regional powers could throw them back.

All the pieces are in place if 6e decides to push the setting into a less stable, more balkanized and more unpredictable world.

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>>54661967
>>54662083
>>54662090
Listen, what you have to do is go back to the beginning and ask: What is it that sets Technomancers apart from Deckers?

And the answer isn't just that they can hack with their mind - hack without a deck. It's that they hack naturally. They hack the way someone reaches out an arm. They just think it, and it happens.

They Hack on the Fly.

For Technomancers to have a real place in the setting, you need to place Technomancers and Deckers on two different timetables. Have Technomancers the guys you go to in order to hack on the fly, and Deckers the guys you go to in order to pull off tricky data intrusions.

Technomancers are the guys who can think a doorway open, turn off the enemy's guns, and amp up cyberware - both their own and others'. They're the guys who think a thought and, like magic, technology responds. Direct, intuitive, messy, and simple.

Deckers, then, are the guys who case a location's servers, give themselves' credentials, and play puppet-master with its automated security systems. They're the guys who line up the perfect intrusion and steal the data without a trace. They're the guys for when there's time for planning, legwork, and a controlled approach.

That'll give Technomancers their place. Their place, mechanically, on the team - they're the guys who are tech-wizards - technomancers, making technology respond with a whisper and a thought. And their place in the lore, as people who can get technology to jump up and respond with shocking speed and ease, but without the clean precision of carefully-designed hacking software.

Anything else is just a clumsy, lazy patch job that doesn't actually address the real problem - the problem being that Deckers already fill all of the Matrix roles needed, and that technomancers getting the same shit done but with 'complex forms' and 'sprites' doesn't actually give them a new role, just a pointless paint job.

>>54662188
The problem with that approach is that it turns Deckers back into pizza time for the rest of the table. In a party-based game, you cannot set up different characters to operate on different timelines.

>>54662223
>The problem with that approach is that it turns Deckers back into pizza time for the rest of the table. In a party-based game, you cannot set up different characters to operate on different timelines.
Then the problem is unfixable, and technomancers will never have an actual niche.

>>54661153

No not in real life. Also, that "in real life?" joke hasnt been funny for clise to a decade.

>>54662231
No, it means the solution you proposed is not workable. It doesn't mean you write off everything and walk away because there are no possible solutions to the problem.

>>54662231
>Then the problem is unfixable, and technomancers will never have an actual niche.

That isn't true. 5e gave technomancers a niche, they get to break fundemental rules of the matrix while being delicate and poor at direct choices, where as deckers get to be super tough and competent at basic hacks.

Its just 5e did it bad.

>>54662258
Exactly, the ego on this guy.

>>54662188
Yeah, thanks but no, hell no fucking no thanks! Pizzarun is gone, and fucking good riddance.

>>54635206
SWEET MOTHER OF SOYKAF there's Shadowrun threads here?

I thought you guys were all nerds who sucked ass

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>>54662188
>>54662223
>>54662256
>>54662282

While the timeline idea is unworkable from every aspect, the idea functions all the same.

Deckers have to deal within the framework of the matrix and a host.

Technomancers don't have to. They don't need to hack the host to open doors, or disable cameras, they just have to see them or touch them.

The idea here is to make both desirable in situations. A decker sees the big picture and has access to everything from afar, this includes data that is in a host but not physically there. He is the master of the Matrix and understands how and when to breach it to his own credit.

A technomancer doesn't work within the Matrix, he bends it. He doesn't require the Host to give him permission because he creates his own permissions but to do that he must see it or at least feel it via one of his direct senses. A technomancer is the guy you want as part of your entry team, the guy who can solve problems on a much smaller timescale than a decker, but with less finesse and stealth. When a techno uses a power that bypasses a host it's not clean or stealthy, it shows up as [ERROR] for the host and the necessary response or protocols are followed. While a technomancer could be as good as a decker for pre-planned job, that's just not how he interacts with the matrix, sure he could use a deck but the resonance doesn't work throught that and it's alien and weird to him.

The Resonance needs to be better defined imo so that we can use that as a separation tool between decker and technomancer. They should have two different toolkits just like they do now, but they should have more in differences than in common, and so far just having the same Matrix actions fucks that idea entirely.

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>>54662188
>>54662231
I get what you're saying, but I'd go a different direction with the division between the two.

For me, I'd make one the Cybercombat archetype, and the other the Stealth archetype.

Deckers would be the Cybercombat guys. They use their decks to crash in hard and loud, punching straight through defenses, and having their Decks be both a weapon of digital destruction and a big layer of protection that Technomancers simply don't have, because they hack with their brains. It's not that they're incapable of being Stealthy, mind you - the same way that a street samurai can use his Agility to sneak, a Decker will still be able to do quiet hacking, and just like a digital street samurai the Decker might even use their Cybercombat to preemptively silence an alarm the old-fashioned way instead of just not tripping it in the first place.

But compared to Technomancers, they'll be the big, loud, quick, and dirty cybercombat, Brute Force motherfuckers.

Technomancers, on the other hand, are the subtle ones. They're barely understood, barely detectable, and their digital powers are great at going around and circumventing security measures entirely. Where Deckers are great a brute forcing and cybercombat, they're great at hacking on the fly without raising even a single alarm, slipping in and out as if they were a natural part of the system - like magic. Of course, they're much more vulnerable than a Decker if and when the Blackhammers start flying, because they don't have the Deck as their sword and shield.

Compared to Deckers, they'll be sleek, quiet, precise, and efficient tech-wizards.

5e tried to pull that divide off and failed horribly. Deckers are better at both types of hacking, Technomancers are shitty Deckers with shitty spells, and that's not fixable without throwing the entire subsystem out and starting again from scratch.

But the divide should be cybercombat/loud vs hack on the fly/quiet, not fast vs slow.

>>54662405
The issue is that the way matrix stealth works deckers are superior at it.

In fact, deckers only can use cybercombat at all BECAUSE matrix stealth on a deck is so powerful, they can cloak up and hulk smash a host without being attacked.

You don't need to reinvent the god damn wheel. Technos aren't an unusable mess, they are just kinda undertuned.

>>54662454
>Technos aren't an unusable mess
I strongly disagree.

>>54662459
Thanks for proving you never played one?

They work fine like 70 karma in, which isn't a ton, but its more than it should be.

People bitch because out of chargen they don't function, not because they never work.

>>54662476
>They work fine like 70 karma in
That's like 10-15 runs into a campaign, you moron.

>>54662487
What kind of shit GM doesn't give you 10-12 karma per run.

70 is maybe 4-5 runs max

>>54662487
Its more like 7-9, but its still proof that they have all the tools they need, its just that the tools are horrifically undertuned or too heavily gated.

It doesn't take a fucking genius: If they work at a certain point once they buy certain things, just move those things to chargen rather than trying to reinvent the entire archtype.

Give technomancers skinlink, wrapper, and bootstrap free, reduce the fading values of their powers so you don't need resonance upgrades to use CFs, and move some echos to CFs and they become perfectly fine.

>>54662509
>>54662521
Hold the phone, my GM gives us 7 karma each. Is 10-12 the /srg/ approved amount?

>>54662509
Even at 12 karma per run that's still after you've completed 6 full runs. That's halfway through an entire campaign - easily 18 sessions in.

If an archetype requires advancement of any kind in order to function, they're an unusable mess, because Shadowrun only gives out Karma every 2-3 sessions (per-run) and even then, it gives tiny amounts compared to how much things actually cost.

>>54662560
No, your GM is giving the normal amount. They're getting way more than is typical (because normally it's so low that advancement is borderline nonexistent).

>>54662560
Yes. In fact the CRB is very generous with karma, and stingy as fuck with cash.

>>54662565
The point wasn't that "They are fine, don't change anything."

The point is their core tools work, the archtype works, it is just its set up in a stupid way where stuff you NEED isn't stuff you start with.

You don't need to totally re-write the entire fucking matrix, just make sure technos have what they NEED at gen.

>>54662560
>>54662565
I give 12 karma per run since my run usually last 3-4 session. They are bonuses and maluses depending on the type of play and how it went.

>>54662521
Technomancers don't need free echoes at chargen, mechnically they are just fine, if a little suicidal at chargen. I mean I did just fine against an AI by summoning a L10 Fault Sprite to help me fight it.

>>54662587
It isn't that generous. The core book run rewards are still pretty bad. I generally go with 10k of nuyen and at least 7 karma for a relatively easy run, unless it was literally a ganger bash or something in which case 6k 4 karma is fine. Using "RVP" where 2k=1 karma and letting players trade it using working for the man or the people also helps out shadowrun a ton.

>>54662626
Some of the echoes are just quality of life buffs. They don't get stronger at chargen with skinlink, they just become easier and more comfortable to use.

Little adjustments, that just even out their early game power, not a total rework back to pizzarun.

>>54662626
>mechnically they are just fine, if a little suicidal at chargen
They really aren't.

>>54662654
Not that guy, and I agree with you, but I think that anon is saying they are playable out of chargen, which they are.

It is just way less fun than it should be.

>>54662667
>>54662654
Yeah I mean playable as in you're not completely useless.

I found that Technomancers are actually incredibly fun at chargen if you have another decker in the party, it makes Matrixrun way faster and way more efficient.

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>when you have a shit ton of supplies you carry in a bag and most of your skills went into rural specalizations
>when the team's vehicle breaks down off the grid and you have to boy scout them back to the city

Doesn't always happen, but when it does, fuck yeah 14 survival (woods) dice are awesome

>>54662907
Remember also that the sprawl includes two massive wilderness districts, one high class, one barrens.

>>54662719
Having a techno and a decker makes the matrix play less of a pizza break room since at least two members of the party are engaged.

>all this technomancers vs deckers
>not just playing a technomancer decker that gets a Machine Sprite to live in their deck

>>54654773
>When he died during the Azzie/Amazonia war, she promptly adopted a different identity
That sounds like a really fucking shoddy brainwashing job. You'd think the "no breaks on the immoral actions train" AAA company of the world would do better.

>>54663289
Why not just have two deckers then, since they do the same thing but with different flavors?

>>54662090
>I'd argue that technomancers, and the Resonance in general, seem to be core to where CGL wants to take the setting
Then you've forgotten how CGL has bled decent writers - decent writers who wanted technomancers more than the hacks who've remained. Just look at recent comments from Bull to get a feel for where CGL as a whole is at with technomancers.

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In 5e, how do I play the most lethal decker possible? I want to build a decker whose primary goal is to kill or maim enemy deckers or just totally fry enemy gear/computers.

>>54662283
Just because it was done previously as a whole minigame just for the decker does not mean a whole minigame is required for the decker to have their legwork/slow burn hacking.

I'm not versed in SR:Anarchy even the slightest, but I hear narrative control allows you to establish previous legwork during a run, rather than splitting it into legwork phase and run phase.

Why are there so few Shadowrun GM?

>>54666498
There's not very many GMs for anything really.

>>54666498
Its a difficult system.

>>54666498
Because the GM has to handle the physical, social, astral and matrix elements, keep all relevant rules in his head and try to create a run that is both hard enough to challenge the players and interesting enough that they don't zone out

>>54666630
>I want to do something in the physical world.
Roll your pile of dice equal to your skill+attribute
>I want to do something in the matrix
Roll your pile of dice equal to your skill+attribute
>I want to do something magical/on the astral plane
Roll your pile of dice equal to your skill+attribute

Like yeah there's modifiers you're gonna have to learn for a lot of different occasions, but most of those modifiers you can determine on the fly if you have a grasp of the system and test difficulties.

>>54665830
Cybercombat comes down mostly to your logic+cybercombat, and deck quality.

Unlike most other aspects of the matrix, your deck quality is critical in cybercombat because your matrix stats are more than just limits, they are in dice pools as well, and in the case of dataspikes your attack pool is effectively your weapon and a good deck is the difference between wielding a matrix holdout and a matrix sniper rifle.

A strong, DR 3 deck can easily land dataspikes that smack people for 12 lethal. If you seriously want to fry brains you need a DR4 deck however.

>>54666630
>not using a customizable-insert GM screen
ISHYGDDT

>>54664897
>You'd think the "no breaks on the immoral actions train" AAA company of the world would do better.
Something that you've got to understand about all corporations, even the AAAs, is that every project and every branch is trying to come in under budget in every category possible.

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Mildly off topic, but this is the closest thread i could find.
How well would the rules from Ends of the Matrix work if they were translated into Cyberpunk 2020s ruleset?

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>>54667800
Is it true GeMiTo is the worst sprawl in the sixth world? Where can I read about it?

>>54667356
So what you're saying is that to be a lethal decker, you're gonna have to be more of a wallet warrior than usual?

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>>54667723
I mean despite possible budget issues, if they spent years and thousands (possibly millions) of nuyens to create a brainwashed slave soldier, and it all comes down to "If this guy dies you can just run for it." that doesn't make much sense. It's just kind of a (very) shoddy backstory in my opinion. The guy either has to tone it down or elaborate for it not to sound completely impossible.

>>54667829
Sixth World Almanac has a paragraph on it, and i would try Shadows of Europe as well.
Theres also In The Clutch of Dragons and Storm Front (both 4e) for details on Alamais making it his own fiefdom/hunting grounds for a year or two.

>>54667829
A good answer is this >>54667852

But there's basically no in depth info at all aside from just that. "It's shitty". If you speak german there's some info on Shadowiki which I think is compiled from all various sources, but it's not much. If you wanna play in GeMiTo prepare to build it yourself.

>>54667849
Brainwash them too much, and you've gotten yourself a mindless drone with no personal initiative. Good for fuck toys or low-ranking soldiers, not so great for spies or assassins that need to act on their own.

>>54668143
Yeah you don't want a spy or assassin to be a mindless drone. That's why you use memory reprogramming. Delete their old life and implantat a new one which carries all the events and information that would lead them to sympathise with your agenda.

There's even rules for it.

yekka make a new release of chummer please we've been on 193 since FA got out

>>54667829

Feral Cities in 4e has a short writeup I believe

>>54662521

I know Skinlink's in Data Trails, but where are Wrapper and Bootstrap?

>>54668820
One of the Echoes let's you duplicate a program. You can take it multiple times. That's the one you want.

>>54668820
Wrapper is a core program. Lets you change your icons to violate normal matrix rules about them needing to honestly represent your device.

Bootstrap is a Data Trails program. It lets you use the reformat device action to permanently change how the device operates upon its next reset.

Both are pretty vital to matrix play, not in the same sense smoke and mirrors is vital in that its a huge dicepool bonus to run silent, but in the sense they are both really important fundemental programs for doing certain things (Hiding in areas where you can't run silent, and doing certain hacks at all respectively) and thus technomancers should just... have them.

Tell me /tg/ is alchemy worth it? I wanna run a tacticool mage with a bunch of sustained spells to keep his team connected, & protected, witha lot of sensory stuff too. In combat i dont want him having to take even more drain with all his spells running, so i figure a tacticool mage would have a bandolier of baubles that could be used instead of spells. If alchemy sucks ill have to go wih guns but id rather not.

>>54669031
FA almost saved it.

Almost.

>>54668820
>>54669025

Oh, they're programs; I was looking for echoes and not finding them

>>54669031
I liked the idea of trying to play a bandolier alchemist. But the fact that you have to prep your stuff the same afternoon you want to use it kinda put a damper on that idea.

>>54669031

Sustaining foci could get you some of what you're looking for. Can't say I know too much about the alchemy but I've heard it's underpowered.

>>54669126
Sustaining foci are terrible and should never be taken. You are using at least 1 force of foci to negate a -1 penalty, meaning other types of foci are better in almost any context. Power foci are better at negating sustaining penalties than sustaining foci even if you intend to cast buffs and do physical actions, because the power foci helps offset the penalty by more.

>>54669031
Use psyche and power foci. Psyche reduces the drain penalty to a -1 per spell rather than -2, and a power foci is a global +1 on magic rolls.

Drain penalizes actions. Drain resistance is not an action.

This is literally the most broken combination of items in the game, and is entirely responsible for mage supremacy.

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>>54667083
Does it even fit the lore properly?
>>54668613
Releases are supposed to be stable, there are existing issues with essence and karma costs that I need to fix before I want to push a release, but I'm in a bit of a funk and lack time to push through it at the moment.

>>54669207
>Does it even fit the lore properly?
I'm uh... slightly confused on what you mean. It might be because it's past 6am.

>>54669199
Where can i find psyche? & is focused concentration any good then?

>>54669537
Psyche is a core rulebook drug.

Focused concentration is traditionally considered not good, but its not terrible like a sustaining foci.

Is there anything wrong with using a Metalink Commlink if you arent trying to do matrix shit? Is there anything every character should be usig his commlink for?

>>54669121
Have you read FA?

>>54669578

I'm a big fan of cheap, disposable commlinks.

>>54669578
Metalinks are a good disposable comlink (Though many people don't realize that there isn't as much utility in that as they might think, because comlinks aren't really tracked on the matrix, icons are) but are terribl for a primary comlink.

You want your comlink to either be as strong a defense as possible, or to be the comlink from data trails that has an agent on it so it can manipulate your devices for you. Using a metalink as a primary comlink is extremely dumb, because a comms network is as strong as the weakest link in the chain, unless there is a decker to slave to. Your firewall 1 makes it super easy for a decker to listen in on all of you, track you, or plant bootstrapped viruses in your comlink. You become a walking data leak.

The Fairlight Caliban is pretty much the standard "end game" comlink, and if anyone on your team knows hardware you can either increase it's firewall by another 1, or install wrapper on it.

A wrappered comlink lets you change the icons of your slaved devices, so suddenly running a firearm in wireless mode ain't such a bad deal if you change it's icon to be a wristwatch.

>>54669577
Kinda dont want to snort 200 Nuyen everytime i feel like going on a run. Plus addiction...

>>54669578
>>54669655
What about an MCT Blue Defender? If you're just a Street Sam that just wants to get their wireless bonuses without having to worry about getting hacked, is it any good?

>>54669607
Whats good in it?

>>54669687
Buddy how do you think the sam feels firing 10 rounds of APDS?

Psyche addition is so mild to be nearly impossible, and that is what edge is for.

Psyche is literally the most powerful thing in the game right now. You pay thousands of nuyen to bind a spirit, you can afford 200 nuyen to use THE item that pushes sustained spells into "super comically broken" on a sustaining build.

>>54669703
Its a perfectly good comlink to start with.

Most people open the game with a comlink in the 3-6 DR range, and you can spend one of your earlier run rewards getting a Fairlight with a program carrier with wrapper to make your wireless bonuses super safe.

>>54669725
Bunch of shit for making alchemical bombs better. Amusingly the islamic tradition gets discounts for it.
>>54669344
Sorry, spaced out. Was intending to refer to >>54667800

>>54669725
It has a lot of really good ideas, but balance is all over the place.

Some of the mastery traditions are sublime, others are broken, like the one that makes mind magic sustaining FREE. Or the open palm adept mastery which makes unarmed adepts basically full mages. But other stuff is really good like the ones that make you summon spirits like you are in 3e, either only able to bind but binding easier, or only able to summon local spirits but summoning easier.

The fact adepts now grant spell defense dice is amazing. Legendary. The game definitely needs more spell defense dice.

The alt reagents are sorta broken.

It gives a lot of buffs to alchemy but alchemy is still bad without extensive houserules.

>>54669795
Ive always felt just changing an alchemical preperations shelf life from hours to days would be the best fix

>>54669900
They basically did with the vault of ages but the issue is that making preps is still a pain in the ass downtime activity that takes 200 rolls, sorta like sprite binding.

The houserule I found works is just letting an alchemist auto-generate preps of a certain force in batches before the start of a run.

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>>54669578
>>54669614
>>54669655
>>54669703
I'd love to see a detailed writeup on this sort of thing if >>54625676 is still taking suggestions.
Some kind of comlink and PAN build guide.

The fact that there is a Spirit of Electric Chairs is terrifying.

The fact that it actually got named Old Sparky is hilarious.

>>54670166
Hi.

I am still taking suggestions. However comlinks are not really an interesting space.

You basically have starter comlinks (3-5), with the defender being really strong, the agent comlink, the burner metalink you hand to hobo lookouts, and the rating 7 links you either put a +firewall program inside of using a program carrier and a hardware test, or a wrapper program inside of.

Not a lot going on there.

>>54670454
There's some more program carrier tricks, modding stealth tags, optimizing PI-TAC use, practical matrix survival tips maybe. I agree there isn't as much to cover as martial arts, and it's perhaps less tightly focused.
Thanks by the way for making the martial arts writeup, it's a great tool.

>>54670454
>the burner metalink you hand to hobo lookouts
Nah. Hobos get the 20 nuyen Run Faster disposable commlink. Unless you're really into blowing nuyen on hobos, of course.

I get that there's a lot of (well-deserved) antipathy towards JackPointers in /srg/, but I have to say, the segment in Forbidden Arcana where Haze shits himself seeing Frost, Ehran, Hestaby, and The Fucking Clown all log in simultaneously was fucking gold.

>>54670950

I guess some of us are more into the neoanarchist spirit of compassion than others, forget about the utility of a long term relationship with a 2/1 hobo contact army.

>>54670791
Thanks! You know what they say! You use tools to make better tools!

...wait a minute...

>>54670959
Post screencap.

>>54670992
Psssh, we all know nuyen isn't all you're blowing on those hobos. You back-alley capitalist.

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>>54671070
Oh, and Elijah met the Horrors when he astrally entered a fovae and ended up surviving.

This is not a case of Mary Sue bullshit, fovae are *wrong*.

>>54671261
To be fair most people don't understand the horrors aren't like... Cthulhu and most SR PCs could kill a horror if they put their mind to it. PCs are at least Journeyman tier.

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>>54671261
Also, this is the only thing Hestaby said the entire time.

>>54671276
I was more referring to the whole "Surprise, fovae aren't just massive mana voids, they're worse!" thing, but yeah.

>>54671261
Jeez louise, I like the metaplanar horros boogaloo, but this writing is absolutely horrendous.

>>54671341
Bull is trying to be cool in it, of course it's horrendous.

So, anons, adventure idea:

A shockwave from Yellowstone hits Seattle, and the Renraku Arcology has just locked itself down again. It turns out that it woke up the sleeping Corporate Spirit, and it's basically Deus 2.0, now with more magic.

>>54671376
Bull is in it, period. Of course it's horrendous.

>>54671405
I've always wondered how they handle those in-character things. Do they hop into a discord chat or something and RP it out, or is it like watching the GM narrate what your character's doing for them?

>>54671403
FA kinda hands you that one on a platter, and I wouldn't be surprised if CGL follows up on it at some point.

It'd definitely be interesting.

>>54671423
Wouldn't it be grotesque to have Bull writing your PC's dialogue?

Martial arts fag here. Who would like an in depth analysis of every single weapon category and weapon in them?

>>54669578
The team's combat mage bought a shitload of metalinks to use a s burners. Unfortunately he uses the burners more than his actual commlink. No one has yet to find his real comm or it's data but since it's so rarely used there isn't much of value in it.
he runs a rating1 fake SIN on most of his burners
it's rating 1 because the identity it contains is Longdick Johnson, east-indian elf woman who's sexual preference is marked as "surprise me" the runner is male troll
Needless to say, this runner acts as the team's: Shit Lightning-rod.

Yes the metalink is good for dirty work you don't want traced back to you. It is good to leave flicked on to appease public security while your main 'link is running hidden.
But for the love of god throw it out when you are done with it.

>>54671690
Remember when I said some people overestimate the value of a disposable comlink? You are that person.

Comlinks aren't like phone numbers. A burner link is no better or worse than your primary link when making yourself anonymous, and your link doesn't store records of your crimes unless you shove a bunch of illegal files on it.

Nothing about your link is special or connected to you. So making a phonecall with a metalink that you just have on you makes it MORE likely for a call to be traced back to you, not less, because it does nothing special to protect you and has a pathetic firewall to resist being marked and traced.

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So, question: if I'm a mage with the Calling [Ship Spirit] ritual, and I summon a Ship Spirit, could I add in the name of the ship that I wanted to summon the spirit of, would I then be summoning a Free Ship Spirit because it has a proper name, rather than just a generic "ship spirit"?

So, for instance, if I tried to summon the spirit of the Iowa, would Iowa-chan be a Free Ship Spirit because she has a True Name? Pic related.

>>54672171
Have you tried reading the relevant parts of the rule books? Because it sounds like you haven't and want to be spoonfed.

Here's a freebie though, you can't summon a free spirit without their formula, fucktard. You get what you get, and you deserve to always get Fubuki. Your lack of diligence makes you a disgrace of a wannabe Admiral.

>>54672268
Okay, so you go visit the actual USS Iowa in a museum, or go visit the Metaplane of Ships to learn it.

Then, when you summon it, it's its own special ritual that's not related to normal summoning, or the Calling [Spirit Type] Ritual Spell?

>>54672354
Calling Spirit, and even then you'll have to pay her in Karma or services you do for her omae. Free Spirits, especially considering BBs would be Force 10-12, don't work cheap.

Enjoy being a Destroyerdad.

>>54672354
>imblying the USS Iowa Museum would have survived all of 6th World LA

I want to let players be hackers, but I don't want to slow things down with the entire matrix. I'd like the hacker to be able to run in with the rest of the team and do their shit as they go along.

I'm thinking of limiting it to AR and direct connections, which is simple enough on its own, but how do I balance the investment cost to compensate? I don't want somebody to have to put 6 points in all those skills and buy an expensive deck for something I've nerfed into the ground.

>>54672403
>Free Spirits, especially considering BBs would be Force 10-12, don't work cheap.
Well, yeah, but I'll point you to the Vehicle Spirit's Natural Weapons power.

When you really, really want that Great Dragon dead, or that building over there reduced to smoking rubble, summon a BB and watch as the dragon gets the shit blown out of it with 16 inch guns. That'd be, what, 30 or 40P damage, at least?

>Enjoy being a Destroyerdad.
Sure! That's still a 5 inch gun shooting at people. BBs are overkill against anything short of Great Dragons or actual warships. 4e had a similar gun (the GM Heavy Cannon) statted up as being 17P and -8 AP, which is still pretty good.

>>54670992
It's not like they need the extra stuff a metalink provides over a disposable commlink. Out of every hundred nuyen spent, giving one hobo a metalink means not giving four other hobos a commlink at all.

>>54672405
Yeah, pretty sure the Japs would have either sunk it or scrapped it on principle.

>>54672511
Guns aren't Natural Weapons omae, Shadowrun isn't Kancolle, and their offensive abilities would still be limited by their force.

If you're luck, they might hit like a missile or assault canon. Your destroyers are gonna hit like holdout pistols.

You're either an idiot with a far too lenient GM, or writing crossover fanfiction and should be put to the cross.

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>>54672511

If you want to run a cyberpunk Kantai Collection crossover, you're gonna need GURPS. Shadowrun spirit abilities are limited to their force, and natural weapons don't apply to projectiles you dipshit.

>>54671541
I don't see why anyone would refuse, if you're willing to dig deep and talk about all of it.

>>54672530
Having a comlink that can be recharged is pretty... you know... vital.

>>54672542
>When vehicle spirits have a Natural Weapon, it is a firearm with the typical stats for that weapon. Listed with the Natural Weapon is the type of weapon it should be; gamemasters may select which weapon from that class is used.
>Ship Spirits
>Natural Weapon (any Cannon or Launcher)

>>54672567
Here's the problem with what you're saying: there's no such rule, and you're making shit up.

>>54672559
Well my plan was to both calculate the required palming to have any given size of weapon pass a visual palming 80% of the time assuming Berwick Combo, including variations based on mods the gun can realistically take, and how many dice you need for an 70% killshot rate vs corpsec for every single weapon.

So I think I can dig deep.

>>54672575
>gamemasters may select which weapon from that class is used.

Otherwise the Vory would be summoning Free Spirit Typhoons and using magical nukes you dipshit.

>>54672583
Well I have to admit I am mostly working off memory of 4e because there is no disposable comlink in Run Faster as far as I can see, and it isn't in chummer either but a big part of disposable comlinks in lore is that they were so cheap they didn't even recharge.

>>54672596
>20¥ Prepaid commlink (cheap)

p253. I was working off memory on the nomenclature, too.

>>54672618
Basically comes down to if it is meant to be an oldschool disposable comlink (In which case it doesn't recharge and you are supposed to recycle it at the vendor you got it from so they can open it up to charge it) or is something else.

Either way, the term "prepaid" and the fact it is 80 nuyen less than a fraggin METALINK means it uhh...

It likely is not going to last anyone any serious length of time, either because of data limits or power or parts wear.

>>54672594
It's possible that nobody's thought of that yet. Vehicle Spirits are still a new phenomenon, in-world. Mechanically, it should be possible.

Also, you can't summon 21st Century vehicles, so you'd need to summon Enola Gay-chan or a nuclear submarine spirit if you wanted to summon something capable of nuking people.

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>>54672575
>>54672511
>>54672671

If you really think your GM is gonna let you summon the next best thing to a Thor Shot without some serious investment in time, karma, and nuyen you're more retarded than I thought.

And that's really impressive for a boatfucker.

"It's possible nobody's thought of it yet." Or that ship spirits would be too powerful to summon if they can do 30-40p damage?

You're not smart, you're not even exploiting the rules. You're making idiotic homebrew and trying to bullshit your way through it.

>>54672671
>>54672575

>Implying Iowa Chan would love you more than Ares.

>Implying Corp-sponsored admirals wouldn't offer better fiscal and karmic support with their wage mages.

>Implying you'll ever be anything more than a scrub that strains to summon more than patrol torpedo or destroyer escort as your big gun.

Existence is suffering.

>>54672664
I don't know what you're referring to, but this is the 4e disposable commlink I'm able to refer to. Maybe there's another entry, somewhere, that you can point me to?

>Disposable Commlink
>This cheap mass-produced commlink is designed for temporary use and anonymity. These commlinks come with a short-term MSP basic service plan and commcode, good for one week.

Now, given the public grid is free, I don't see that as an issue for a hobo. They get a week (or however long) of quality data, then however long it takes to break the commlink of free data. Considering they're *hobos* and they live on the *street*, I don't think any technological device they own is going to survive long, no matter what its normal wear and tear guarantee says. When it does break, either way it's probably going into a runflat recycler vending machine for new clothing or other basics.

>>54672714
If Ares announced they summoned and recruited the embodyment of USS Iowa or New Jersey Onee-chan I'd be a proud Ares supporter that nanosecond on.

>>54672983
As would I.

>>54672983
>>54673032
Good, good. More unwitting sacrif... I mean, valuable supporters to the hiv... I, mean embodiment of glories past.

>>54673052
You say that like warships embodying the spirt of 'Murica and military honor wouldn't be the first leading the Ares Civil War against the Hivers.

It'll be a more crazed, chaotic Operation Reciprocity once the other corps get in on capitalizing on the confusion.

Shadowrunning opportunites galore.

>>54644215
Aven the weapon design is mostly better than in previous editions
if we look away from those weird vagina joke barrle magazine guns

Triggers my /k/autism way less, as long nobody mentions the Evanator or the Arms Gladius

File: PCs given a gun design system.png (124KB, 460x597px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 460x597px

>>54673212
>Triggers my /k/autism way less
I love this picture.

>>54673320
god, I'm imagining trying to use both of those grips and the shoulder stock at the same time.
I need a cheap program that lets me play with ragdolls to illustrate how silly it is.

>>54673354
It's at least an extendable stock (I think). It must have an action like that of the Walch pistol, because there's nowhere else for the 5 17mm rounds except in front of each other. On a mecahnical level, the worst part is that the 17mm pistol round doesn't actually have any stats in SLA Industries, where that's from.

>>54673386
>SLA Industries
Isn't that a game where the PCs are exiled to a literal planet of garbage? No wonder those guns are there, because that's what they are!

>>54673411
>literal planet of garbage
Thank you for reminding me of HoL, and thanks for giving me an opportunity to unsubtly shill the best game never played.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/2j53kqbzekv3dvb/HoL.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/file/duzwb1wgtrocnsf/HoL-Buttery-Wholesomeness.pdf

>>54673411
You're thinking of Human Occupied Landfill. SLA is Glaswegian biopunk where your characters are agents of the eponymous corporation. The Farjacket fills exactly one role: For people who want a really big gun, and don't care about how accurate it actually is. It's actually not that bad, if you can deal with the gigantic recoil.

>>54673320
I don't even HAVE /k/-autism and this is making my ears bleed.

>>54673320
>The need for a compact pistol with the knock-out punch of an assault rifle has been the concern of FEN's design team for some time now.
As it should be.

Where do I find the real guns?
You know, the ones that would break a normal person's arm to fire, and are designed to kill tanks or giant armored bugs.

I don't want to be using this crappy "ammunition designed to kill things the size of metahumans" in my pistols.

>>54673483
I didn't realise we have Egyptian posters here. How's the waterproofing in The Nile?

>>54673690
Have you been watching Wicked City again?

>>54673713
No.
You make it sound like I should.

No, I've been watching startship troopers. They really could have used some guns designed to kill things bigger than people, but smaller than buildings. They had a real gap there.