/STG/ - Star Trek General

If someone was to buy or somehow by legal means acquire an old ship or small number of old ships and go around handing over information to promising looking primitives and managed to uplift quite a few of them what would the UFP actually do to them and their new friends?

>>54586206
Give them a stern talking to at worst, likely. The Prime Directive is, as far as I'm aware, strictly a Starfleet thing; it doesn't apply to civilians and it sure as hell doesn't apply to non-Federation individuals/species. They wouldn't like it, but it is unlikely they would be capable (in a legal sense) of intervening.

>>54586206
Since the UFP is basically the space EU, probably give them a sternly worded letter, try and condemn them but fail because a few member worlds couldn't be bothered, and then ignore them.

>>54584592
>inertial dampeners or no, going from relativistically static momentum to 100s of times the speed of light in an instant isn't good for your shuttle or your health.
Inertia isn't the problem, since a ship at warp isn't actually going that fast, relative to the space-time around it. It would be the crazy space-time geometry differences immediately around the ship that would probably be bad for a shuttle, if it didn't have a way of warping space-time itself.
Which fortunately it would, since that's how even impulse engines work.

I don't know if anyone else ever read the old novelization of Balance of Terror, but it talked about previously encountered Romulan ships.
It mentioned them as being cylindrical and I was wondering if they were made up of a single nacelle.

>>54586865
Romulans would have had Vulcan derived ring ships before the nacelle era.

>>54586910
It was written back when the Romulans were supposed to have built their early empire without warp drive.
Then they decided to change that with Enterprise so I was considering designs that combined elements of both.

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>>54586865
>>54586910
>>54587068
There's always this... thing. It's been rejigged a bit to operate as a drone ship, so maybe it looked more cylindrical before that?

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>>54586865
the Museum has them following a similar but different design trend to the human vessel of the era; tube-like is there but not the same as the space-dildos.

Best bridge?

>>54589754
Excelsior under Sulu

>>54587974
"Chowder."

Presumably the fleet intel guy who named this thing was awfully hungry.

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Tell me about that Star Trek novel/novel series that you'll never write, /stg/

>>54590527
Story about a science vessel just off fucking around the edges of the Alpha or Beta Quadrants with the occasional return to a starbase for maintenance. Little to no combat, only rare first contact shit.

The focus would be the character interactions and the slow descent into near madness each mission out brings the crew since it will be months before they see another human face save that asshole from Engineering who banged Ensign Dennis and then skipped out on going steady with her because he decided to try and go after Lieutenant T'Lis and other shit like that.

>>54589754
It's shit for practicality, but I can't not drool over VOY's bridge and interior design overall

>>54590609
>wanting a Star Trek Soap Opera
How far we've fallen

>>54590527
A crew of older warhorses on an Excelsior, the USS Perseus, who were totally prepared for the Klingon Cold War to go hot in 2293. Flash forward a decade later to 2303, and the Federation is experiencing a period of nearly unprecedented peace/detente ... with the major factions. Without a pair of big boys forcing everyone to keep their heads down to prevent getting turned into catspaws, the Medusae Sector has turned into a flashpoint of military juntas fighting over resources. For every one put down, another two pop up. The theme would be a mix of world weariness/the transition to a peacetime Starfleet as the crew realizes that fighting these little juntas isn't doing anyone any favors and this would have been the future they chose.

My ideal end to the series would be a 2370s look at the area from a formerly junior officer's perspective as the Medusae sector is now an island of peace in the middle of the Dominion War.

>>54590527
I had an idea for a story set after the end of Voyager called "All Quiet on the Laurentian Front."

The premise was that the Federation was at war with the Klingon Empire. We follow the crew of the USS Chieftain, a Nova class starship that's being used as a force-recon ship by Starfleet intelligence. The Klingons have, all of a sudden, gone quiet. It's up to the Chieftain to figure out why.

I actually wrote an amount of it, before I adapted the idea into my own setting. I've since refined the story to such an extent that it's essentially an entirely separate narrative.

>>54590679
"Number one, im home!"
>Que laugh track

>>54590924
I mean, you do know that Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis suggested a sitcom called "At Home with the Rikers" with that kind of premise, set on the Titan. With Worf as the stern uncle and babysitter. Right?

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>>54589772
This.

>>54589754
I'd like ENT's more if it was properly full of extras like the TOS bridge. Always felt a bit empty even though it was all cramped up.

>>54590961
As a matter of fact i didn't know.

>>54590924
Soap opera, not sitcom. So it would be more like.

>"Oh I love you, Chell"
>Bolian looks guilty
>"But I'm actually in love with the captain"
>*Que dramatic music. "Dramatic" as in east ended drums or some such

>>54590961
Jesus christ, I can't decide whether this would be horrific or glorious. If I remember some of Titan in Beta Canon correctly, it would make great sitcom material if you got rid of all the holier-than-thou preachery.

>>54591046
>"Captain! I think im pregnant and you're the father!"

>>54591115
>dramatic 5 second scan with a tricorder later
>"No, this is not my child. But rather, it is Ensign Ricky's"
>"But he's been dead for five years and I never slept with him!"

>science officer:
>"Captain, I believe he may not be dead but merely out of phase and displaced in time, and the corpse we saw was merely a time-echo"
>"that doesn't explain how he got me pregnant"'

>>54587382
This uses interior nacelles because it doesn't have to worry about giving the crew super-cancer

>>54591273
>"True"
>Dramatic reveal
>"It was I."
>"Ensign Ricky!?"
>"No, i am his identical twin, Billy"
>"But it still doesn't make sense! When did we ever have sex?"
>"Last week while you were stranded on the holodeck and your brainwaves got scrambled, i helped you and we got romantically involved. Unfortunately, as soon as the holodeck was fixed, your brain patterns returned to normal and your memories were locked out of your mind"
>"But, why are you then here, Billy? Why are you aboard this ship?"
>"It was originally to avenge my brothers death, but as i learned that he was simply out of phase, i have worked since then to create conditions on the holodeck to bring him back to phase"

>>54591340
>After bringing Ricky back
>"I am sorry but it really is my child, not Billy's, you see, Billy was rendered sterile years ago by a radiation leak that I caused by accident. Consumed by guilt and knowledge of Billy's burning desire to have a child, I was also there during that time on the Holodeck, having realised the adjustments he had made only worked on de-phasing particles that left my body".

>>54591521
>Billy points a phaser at Ricky
>"You idiot. I'm not your brother. I'm a Tal Shiar agent here to stop you from ever reporting your stolen Romulan secrets."
>Billy hesitates
>"But I can't kill you. For you see I'm in love with the mother of your unborn child! The feeling I experience on the holodeck were real. And she would never forgive me if I hurt you."

>>54586245
>>54586264
>>54586206
That could be quite fun. A bunch of retired officers and civilian spacefarers who consider the Prime Directive to be a huge heap of moral cowardice shit for the UFP to hide behind and pontificate about how enlightened they are to let others grub around in pestilence and scarcity.

Maybe they found what was once a nice sort of idealized and romanticized 1940s minus the wars in the grips of an outbreak of hyper-ebola or super black death or some shit and the UFP refuses to do anything even covertly because "lulz muh cozmic plan eks dee".

So a small private convoy consisting of two patched up Pioneers, a half dead Daedalus, an Oberth stuffed full of cargo containers in the hollow space and what might have once been an NX but now has a bolted on secondary hull underneath the saucer and an antiquated Vulcan ring drive strapped on the back where good honest nacelles should be.

Their mission? Cure the epidemic and help the poor bastards rebuild something of their lives as one galactic neighbor to another. Because fuck the UFP bureaucrats who can't see past their 27B Stroke 6 triplicate forms.

By the time Star Fleet turn up they are already setting up treatment and study centers across the planet, the masquerade is broken, the primitives know they are not alone in the inky blackness.

And that's where the game would start.

For now the primitives think that the UFP is alright because these wonderful spacefellows are from the UFP and have not told them that the UFP were content to watch them die because lulz lesser peoples.

To complicate matters the nausicaans followed the Star Feet ships and as this is now no longer an uncontacted world Star Fleet don't feel obligated to protect it from Space Somalians because lulz not our problem again but for different reasons.

So it's time to defend a plague ravaged semi-post-apocalypse world from Space Marauders with antique barely functional ships and mostly 1940s weaponry.

>>54591752
And then everything blows up in their face and it turns out they've ruined everything despite their best intents, thus proving why the Prime Directive exists in the first place, right?

>>54591921
Not unless they truly fuck up and revert to murderhoboing.

Beaming down to a world suffering a super plague, cooking up anti-plague, distributing it freely and evenly and assisting in the rebuilding with super spaceman know how to rid a world of pestilence, famine and internal armed conflicts so that all can live free and happy is not a bad thing. It is being the neighbors Mr Rodgers believed we could be. Are you going to be the one to turn your back on Mr Rodgers?

Bonus objective could be trying to convince the UFP that adhering to the Prime Directive like sacrosanct holy writ to the exclusion of common sense is he sort of dogmatic death of reason thinking that they are supposed to be against.

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>>54591921
There are so many complications I can think of if following that path.

Perhaps not ruining everything but certainly a constant, hard battle to keep what seemed like doing the right, compassionate thing from horrifically distorting. Potentially generations of continual work ahead of any group that tries to solve something like that through direct interference.

>>54592095
>>54591752
keep in mind just about every captain in every series (barring archer) has had to deal with this sort of nonsense and the general consensus on the Prime Directive has been 'you can't just uplift people willy nilly but its moral cowardice to allow a species to go extinct/be enslaved' etc.

usually intervention by another species is an excuse to get involved for instance.

>>54591921
>thus proving why the Prime Directive exists in the first place, right?

I can't remember but has that ever actually happened? All the episodes I can remember are of the "Starfleet could effortlessly avert catastrophic but won't, until at the last moment some loop hole lets the Enterprise intervene after all or sneaky crew member or passenger does it and gets a stern talking to about how terrible it is that they saved countless lives with minimal effort and no negative repercussions ever made evident.

>>54592152
The later shows totally fucked up the Prime Directive. TOS was pretty adamant that Starfleet and UFP personnel do their utmost to not interfere with the development of a species, unless one of two things happened. First, that the Culture was sufficiently advanced to send a distress call into outer space asking for some sort of help or could detect the UFP ship and make contact. The second option was if the planet/culture was already "contaminated" by an offworld species, however Starfleet couldn't provide Warp technology or any that the locals didn't already possess. Tl;dr: Noninterference without cause. Later on, the writers dropped the second and third words without thinking about the ramifications.

>>54592244
pretty much, Kirk was more reasonable about it. If he encountered a species dying of a super plague he'd assess whether or not they were at risk of going extinct and if they were he'd have Spock and Bones build some kind of antigen bomb and set it off in their atmosphere to spread the cure around the planet. No contact with the species, they get to survive and develop, and the prime noninterference directive isn't violated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQcLLfzzKWA&t=906s

>>54592095
>>54592152
I'm getting tired of people acting like the Federation is completely reprehensible because of one terribly-written season 7 TNG episode and taking one season 2 TNG episode completely out of context. It's like arguing that all forms of transwarp are stupid because Threshold happened.

Federation allows for violations of the Prime Directive in extreme situations so long as the captain and crew do their best to minimize interference. Remember that it was mentioned Picard had violated the Prime Directive something like 9 times by the time Drumhead happened, yet he's still considered one of the finest captains in Starfleet history and worthy of commanding the Federation's flagship. It's extremely easy and within canon to write the Federation as being reasonable when it comes to extreme circumstances. So if some kind of plague happens that will cause everyone on a planet to die, do something like going undercover and covertly slip the cure to a medial facility with nobody noticing who you really are, instead of flying in like a bunch of space gods bringing your magical healing to the masses so you can be worshipped.

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>>54589754
I'm a big fan of the Yesterday's Enterprise version of the Enterprise D bridge. Practicality be damned, i think it looks good.

>>54592494
I like the idea of more consoles. By all accounts, the 24th century UFP ship has the ability to shift functions across the entire bridge, so I'd like it for spare seating and fighter coordination. Imagine a Galaxy class that traded the science bays in the saucer for enough bays to launch 72 Peregrines?

>>54592336
...did they make a trek series focused around a marie sue?

>>54592537
I remember seeing an RPG supplement back in 2001 for a Galaxy class set up as a carrier with extra space set aside for more craft.
Mind you it was supposed to carry a scaled down version of the Defiant class.

>>54592418
Fucking. This.

>>54592418
I hardly see how it's an unfair to judge the PD to be shit in TNG when the two episodes written to show it as a main plot point show it, or at least TNG era Star Fleet's dogmatic adherence to it, to be shit.

That's even without going into RIker and his muh cosmic plan.

>>54592809
Because you're judging the Federation by your own headcanon. There is no dogmatic adherence. Exceptions are permitted. For every one episode where the plot is adhering to the Prime Directive, there are half a dozen more where the Prime Directive is violated for reasonable reasons, with the captain and crew suffering no repercussions because the dogmatic adherence you claim simply does not exist.

"There can be no justice so long as laws are absolute."

>>54592881
>There is no dogmatic adherence

Except when that atmosphere of a planet was blowing off and they could have save a fair few hundred of the locals and helped them settle on some other world.

Instead we get Picard standing on the bridge refusing to do jack shit pontificating about how noble and righteous they are to be doing nothing. Worf's less cowardly brother tried to do something and managed to save a handful but it's probable that there isn't enough genetic variety in a single small tribal group of what looked like 20 individuals at most to perpetuate further than a few generations assuming that they can learn to survive quickly on a new world.

This would have happened a 2nd time with Data's friend's people but Picard was swayed by feelings rather than making a conscious moral between right and wrong.

>>54593059
Which just brings me back to my point: you're judging based on one poorly written episode when the rest of the franchise says otherwise. Why must that one single episode be what you rigidly adhere to? Why not Justice or Who Watches The Watchers, or any of the other episodes where exceptions are made?

>>54593103
Because neither of those episodes were high stakes.

One was effected a single village of what were probably the regressed descendants of Vulcan castaways and so the PD shouldn't have applied for the same reason it didn't for Masterpiece Society and Up The Long Ladder.

The other would have resulted, at worst, in Wesley getting killed. No loss there.

They were not extinction level events.

>>54593207
The stakes are completely irrelevant. Plenty of episodes have broken the Prime Directive. The Federation has been cool with it because of extreme circumstances.

You shit on Pen Pals because you think Picard is "muh feels" but the fact is at the end of the day they violated the Prime Directive to save an alien species and the Federation was fine with it. You cling desperately to one single episode because it's the only one that appeases your headcanon.

>>54592494
Wait, where did you get that picture? I've looked around for a decent model of the YE bridge before, to no avail.

>>54593283
I'm not clinging to anything. If the crew of Picard's Enterprise is meant to be the best of Star Fleet then we can assume that their captain's interpretation of the PD is the best that a Star Fleet officer can have.

In Justice he fight tooth and nail to save a single person. Homeward he just stands there and lets a world die.

In Pen Pal's he absolutely does get an attack of muh feelz as he had just told Data to turn the radio off and then the little girl says that she is scared and he changes his mind. I'm not saying he made the wrong decision, I'm saying his method of reaching it was bad.

In the episode with the drug dealers lolz can't help an entire planetary population with it's withdrawal pains because muh PD. An entire planet of crack addicts going cold turkey. Holy shit the death count is going to be in the millions at least. And this was a spacefaring society.

The application of it is all over the place, adhered to strictly when it's extremely detrimental to do so and broken/bent for more trivial things.

>>54593568
>If the crew of Picard's Enterprise is meant to be the best of Star Fleet then we can assume that their captain's interpretation of the PD is the best that a Star Fleet officer can have.
Yet there are plenty of episodes where Picard and/or members of his crew disagree with official Federation policy. Why? Because everyone is mortal and flawed. But the Federation is still ultimately well meaning. They're fine with problems being solved as long as it's done with as much care as possible.

>>54593687
Then I'm probably just annoyed at the inconsistent writing and lack of any sort of forethought the writers were putting into making it seem cohesive.

>>54593825
So's everyone else when it comes to inconsistent writing. But it's simple to try and stay consistent with the broader picture instead of nitpicking over individual episodes. "DAE THE FEDERATION WAS EVIL/INCOMPETENT ALL ALONG!?!?!?" just strikes me as lazy hack writing when there's a thousand ways you can explore the Prime Directive without going down that route.

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>>54586047
Recommend Arrival, it's basically if a certain spoilery book were a good Trek episode.

>>54592244
>>54592292
Kirk also convinced Landru to self-destruct, setting a precedent that a stagnant culture can be fucked with.

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Second attempt at a fast short range scout ship.
After previous feedback decided to base the main hull off the Sydney class this time.

>>54591752
>and mostly 1940s weaponry.
On a personal basis these seem to be largely superior to beam weapons.

>>54594189
Would be fairly amusing to see a nausicaan raider looking at a revolver, or revolver like weapon, and thinking "fuck it, I've tanked a Feddie stun setting before now" just before a chunk of lung exists the exit wound.

>>54592418
>and taking one season 2 TNG episode completely out of context.
The one where they can keep that planet from blowing up without anyone knowing but they don't until Data inexplicably contacts one of them?
That shit was inexcusable.

>>54593322
Stage 9. Its a virtual model of the Enterprise D

>>54594427
Just rewatched Yesterday's Enterprise. God what a fucking good episode. The internal changes to the Enterprise. The subtle addition of a gun holster to the standard uniform. The design of the Enterprise C.
But most importantly, the changes to the characters. The obvious antagonism between Picard and Riker. The absence of Troi. The subdued, detacthed Crusher. The lack of social development for Data. That's some really good writing and direction.

>>54595932
>The absence of Troi.
Excuse me while I laugh my head off because I never noticed her missing before.

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Anyone have pic related for TNG?

>>54596229
>TNG

You watch every single episode

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>>54596229
Here you go.

>>54596264
I already have, I just like the little spoiler-free synopses.
>>54596279
Thanks fampai.

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>>54596292
I have the rest, here they are.

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>>54596318

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>>54596319

>>54596336
Oh fugg, I don't have the Animated Series one.
Does it even exist?

>>54596366
It does not. I'm about 50% done with a full Voyager one and, honestly, it's a bit harrowing. I have no intention of doing one for TAS so if anyone else wants to bear that cross, feel free.

>>54596455
I'll do it, but I'm a bit more forgiven than these seem to be.
I liked the Mudd episodes, for instance, and think he's not a bad guy.

>>54596472
*forgiving

>>54596480
>>54596472
Oh, and I've never used photoshop in my life, so I'll just link to a Google doc with the info and someone else can do it. It's only two seasons.

>>54596319
I would suggest bumping Dramatis Personae up to okay.

Move along home had a decent premise. It's a shame they couldn't do anything better with it. The fact that the actors hated it didn't really help matters.

>>54596769
Nana Visitor was okay with it.
Ironic considering Kira's attitude.

>>54596769
Dramatis Personae should be "the one where Sisko gets his weird clock sextant thing."

Ran my first session of ST:A. One player had to drop out before it started, but it ended up going really smoothly. Was running a combat oriented mission out of the USS Thunderchild, players were the boarding crew and commanders of a fighter squadron.

>>54597247
Update: We just found out that all four players, by sheer coincidence, chose the "grew up on a farm and rebelled" origin.

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Right So the Star Trek one shot finished up.

Dramatis Personae:

Commander Air Group Surin
Summary: Vulcan Rebel who rejects her culture and joined star fleet.

Lieutenant Junior Grade Ankh
Summary: Tellarite scientist/medic, cynical. Survivor of wolf 359

Lieutenant Commander Scharn
Summary: Andorian Engineer, by the book.

Lieutenant Stone:
Summary: Human Security officer, good old boy, wold 359 survivor, carries a sword everywhere.

Now, we're all crew members on the Thunderchild; an Akira Class ship refitted to be a combat vessel. Two fighter groups which consist of ten fighters and a support runabout.

Our mission opens with Ankh and Stone on the Runabout Valkyrie (painted up with a shark's maw and a pinup aft). Lieutenant Henke is moving the ship in onh what appears to be the U.S.S. Majestic, interference is strong and its hard to maintain contact with one another.

Commander Surin is nearby in her peregrine with her fighter wing. The Majestic is nearby a Galor that's been split in half, the region is dotted with subspace transmitters which are jamming everything.

Stone tries to hail the Majestic, no dice all power is down. The Galor tries to respond, sounds like the cardassians are warning the fighters off.

Eventually Surin loses patience with the interference and vaporizes the nearest subspace jammer.

Stone manages to contact the Galor but the cardassian he's talking to promptly gets Phaser'd.

Keep in mind they can't talk to the thunderchild due to more jammers, they sent some fighters back to talk to the ship and by now they come back and tell the party that the Majestic reported to Starbase 47.

So there's some arguing, is the ship a projection? What's going on here? Stone wants to shoot the hangar off but Surin overrides and scans the thing. Ankh figures out its missing a repatch of Duranium armor the real Majestic should have.
>>54597476
excuse you I embraced being a Farm Boy, I just decided to move away.

>>54597476
Did you tell them that you can't stand it because you knew they planned it?

>>54597539
so around this point we board the ship, Ankh stays on the Runabout to play mission control and Surin and Scharn are buzzing around in the fighter.

Stone hits the mess hall and finds six feddies in a firefight with cardassians, they manage to notice the dozen or so starfleet personnel in EVA suits. A female Vulcan asks if Stone and friends are 'with her' and gets a widebeam stunblast to the face for her troubles, so do her friends.

The Cardassians demand stone and friends come out without weapons, they need to be checked you see. Stone tells one of his men, Donovan, that he's in command if he dies and places his rifle on the floor before advancing. The cardassians ask him to take his helmet off. He does, they check the back of his neck.

He's clean, he orders his men to do the same. They find purple spines sticking out the back of the neck of each of the starfleet personel who just got stunned.

Nueral parasites, as Donovan watches in shocked silence Stone promptly disintegrates each one with his phaser rifle. Stone tells the man to 'get his head in the game.'

Around this point two people in EVA suits attack the runabout, the pilot Lieutenant Henke gets stunned. Ankh and Stone have been in contact, Ankh is keeping track with Stone, the tellarite holds his own and manages to catch one of them with a phaser pistol blast that should stun him but the man just stumbles.

The other tries to engage in CQC but gets pushed out the airlock and sealed out. His partner tries to blast the door down and Ankh blasts his phaser rifle, the man falls down, heavily burned.

He contacts Stone.

"Disintegrate him and break contact with the ship. Quarantine protocols are in effect." Ankh almost argues, but he follows orders.

Around this point Scharn detects that the Fake Majestic's fusion reactors are firing up, the Miranda is coming to life!

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>>54597690
So Ankh is busy playing mission control for Stone, Scharn is scanning the Miranda and trying to find their shields because Surin doesn't want to give the ship a ghost of a chance in a fight.

Scharn pulls up an obsolete design from an older refit, instead of finding a shield generator point to strike Surin finds a fusion generator.

Now normally starfleet vessels have their structural integrity fields on at all times, but for whatever reason the Nueral Parasite crew had turned this ship off, completely one hundred percent. It went from 0 to 100 in nothing, which is why when surin blasted the ship's fusion generator she set off an explosion that tore it apart.

Back to Stone and Ankh, there's maybe thirty 'Spoonheads' left, the nueral parasites can't turn them, and it seems the entire planet is overtaken by the parasites. So the parasites are trying to kill them. Stone immedietly sets up defences and has Ankh do overwatch, everyone but the 30 or so cardassians in the messhall are dead and the infected are moving in to assault the hall.

Stone orders him to beam out the infected into space and disintegrate them but he's forgotten runabouts can't do point to point transport. They're stuck transporting two people at a time every six seconds. So instead he and his team weld the messhall door shut and start transporting the cardassians out. While they do that Stone works on turning every spare weapon into a bomb.

The door is turning red, then orange, then white it melts and dozens of skittering monsters come crawling inside...only to be vaporized when a pile of federation and cardassian weapons explode.

The room is silent save for the sound of people beaming out. "Take me last!" declares stone.

"I anticipated that order." states Ankh. Around this point the stand off breaks, only the starfleet personel remain, all of them in EVA suits, all of the infected are dressed similarly.

>>54597833
One of them throws a grenade but it gets blasted by a phaser beam from Stone. Containment breaks, the grenade goes off full force and the coridor shatters a few corpses drift off into space. More starfleet are teleported out and soon Stone is left trading phaser blasts until finally he's pulled out as well.

Just as it seems the group can breath a sigh of relief the other fighter wing and Thunderchild finish off the last few subspace beacons.

"Return to ship, Starbase 47 just went black."

and then the session ended.

This episode will be a two parter from the looks of things.

>>54586047
So I'd like to essentially run a game of Aurora or Bridge Crew using STO. I know on lower difficulties it's relatively forgiving and it seems like splitting boff powers and other basic ship functions gives each person quite a bit but not too much to do. For a party of 4-5 people how terrible/great of an idea is this? Im thinking Captain, Tactical, Engineering, Science, Helm, with everyone but the captain getting a peripheral USB'd to the main computer whose input goes to a projector.

>>54598013
Bridge Crew was designed for 5 people to split roles. STO was designed for 1 person to do everything. Terrible idea.

>>54590870
>I actually wrote an amount of it, before I adapted the idea into my own setting. I've since refined the story to such an extent that it's essentially an entirely separate narrative.

Please post the pdfs bro

>>54597878
Starfleet never figured out how to extract the parasites from people?
I know they couldn't at the time but there were a lot of advances between season 1 TNG and when they started fielding Akira's.

>>54590527
It was going to be set in the distant future where Cardassia allied with the Dominion.

Then season 5 of Deep Space 9 came out and Cardassia allied with the Dominion.

>>54589754
Unpopular opinion: Kelvin Timeline Enterprise's bridge is sexy.

>>54600239
Too lensflarey for my taste.

>>54600239
Would be good if we could see it clearly

>>54591752
>So a small private convoy consisting of two patched up Pioneers, a half dead Daedalus, an Oberth stuffed full of cargo containers in the hollow space and what might have once been an NX but now has a bolted on secondary hull underneath the saucer and an antiquated Vulcan ring drive strapped on the back where good honest nacelles should be.

You know what would be fucking sweet? A game where you get to design you own Trek ship and crew. STO and it's ship customization doesn't quite cut it and the ye olde game that was made of this was utter shite.

>>54596497
That's more or less what I did for the Enterprise one. Made the grids in word, coloured them using font/background options and then screen capped each season. Then I just popped them together in GIMP.

>>54590527
I have one. Whole plot figured out and everything. Just writing it up.

>>54599824
Its early DS9 era and no one saw hide nor hair of the things since then as near as we can tell. Next session we'll probably have a little down time to check on the ship's data stores on the things.

>>54603706
Question! Is your GM planning on using STO or Beta (hue) canon for the Parasites? Because both are pretty lame, but the Beta one more so. They're genetically altered Trill symbiotes that got kicked out for being pretty bloodthirsty. And some other stuff.
Hell they infected Shakaar because Beta writers are ass at respecting characters that aren't from TNG.

>>54603731
dunno, we'll see. I'm Stone's player who rolled up special commendation and transporter accident during chargen. Had him fight borg with a saber he made at the academy and get 80% of his nervous system fired teleporting out of the dying Saratoga. Has a prosthetic one now. I assumed he got a memo at some point on the threat they pose.

We'll see next session probably.

>>54603652
>>54590527
Never thought of a name for it. Just off the top of my head, let's call it "The Wrongs we Justify".

The story follows a Junior Lietenant around the time of the Narendra 3 incident. The Enterprise C has just been lost, but as a result peace negotiations are progressing smoothly.
Our protagonist, let's call him Adam, is aboard the USS Belisarius, an Excelsior refit, patrolling the border. He is a tactical officer with very little room for advancement on board. Sullen at the prospect of being stuck at Lt.jg for the foreseeable future, he looks to volunteer for any action that might get him commendation.
His opportunity comes when the Belisarius discovers Federation border colony ransacked. All of the colonists are missing. After some recriminations between the captain of the Belisarius and a Klingon governor, Starfleet Intelligence gets involved.
Refusing to give up too much information, the Intelligence officer (an Andorian) asks for a shuttle and some Volunteers. Apparently, she knows where the colonists are and has a plan to rescue them. Adan volunteers in a heartbeat, alongside 4 other crew members.
Once away from the ship, the Andorians tells them to get into civvies. They're going to dump the shuttle at the nearest neutral port and aquire a larger, non-Starfleet ship.
Over the course of the story, it is revealed that the Orions have taken the colonists to sell as slaves. The Andorian's plan is to pose as buyers and then steal back the colonists.
Adam is initially hesitant at the actions required of him, as are his crew mates. They sell Starfleet tech for information. They steal, they cheat, they threaten.
As the stakes are raised (some nasty shit happens to the colonists), Adam becomes more comfortable with this. He begins to become more distant to the other crew members, who remain appalled at their underhanded tactics. The Andorian, however, begins to trust him more as someone that knows what has to be done.

>>54603880
It is made clear that the crew were only along to act as potential fall-guys. Starfleet Intelligence is prepared to burn some low-level officers in order to avoid a conflict that would jeopardise the peace negotiations. Eventually their opportunity presents itself. A wealthy Orion slaver has decided to flaunt his (surviving) Human slaves by publicly parading them. Adam and another crew member (let's call him Lee) will have to sneak into the slavers compound and disable their transport scrambler. The others will mark the colonists from the on looking crowd while the Andorian beams them aboard their ship.
Everything goes tits up and, while they save the colonists, the ground team are themselves cut off. Adam and Lee avoid capture. The others aren't so fortunate. Believing the Andorian has left them to die. Adam comes up with an extremely dangerous plan. One that Lee does not approve of. Adam wants to release a large quantity of Neurazine gas into the atmosphere. Prolonged exposure will kill everyone exposed. Adam intends to walk into the Slavers compound, find their crewmates and save them before they experience permanent brain damage. Lee refuses to go along with it and the two fight. Adam kills Lee unintentionally.
He carries out his plan and manages to get rebreathers on his crewmates before they die. They are then rescued by the Andorian, who returns for them.
Adam admits what he has done to the Andorian, as the others are still in a torpor.
Rather than reprimanding him, the Andorian says that she's impressed by his resolve. She offers to cover up Adam's crimes in return for him joining Starfleet Intelligence. He accepts, only now beginning to regret his actions.

>>54603884
As a sort of epilogue, we get to see Adam's career after this. Upon their return to Federation space, Adam is hailed as a hero. He is quickly bumped up to a senior rank and becomes a mission controlled for Starfleet Intelligence.
Over the next 25 years he becomes increasingly disillusioned with the Federation. He's paranoid of the civilian government. He's frustrated when the Federation makes peace with inferior adversaries.
He finds the several officers share his feelings on the matter. Some of his Intelligence buddies introduce him to a man with some very interesting ideas. A one Admiral James Leyton.
The final scene takes place in a holding cell. Adam, still in uniform, sits alone. Leyton's coup was a total failure. Adam expects he'll spend the next few decades in a cell like this one. He is visited by an old friend. The Andorian. She chastises him for sloppy execution and for trusting the wrong people. With several high up member of Intelligence now on their way to penal colonies, she's become one of the highest ranking Intelligence officers in Starfleet. She offers him salvation for his loyalty. Adam wants no part of it and refuses. The story ends with Adam finally being sent to prison for his crimes.

>>54603087
I'd be down for that. Would be rather interesting to see what kind of ships people make.

Personally I would make a deep space science vessel with a very durable hull and over-powered shields but almost no armament since they are supposed to be as peaceful as possible. Total complement would be around 900 including civilians with a number of lounges, arboretums, holodecks and more so people have shit to do to keep their mind off the fact they are nowhere near anyone else really except the stray vessel that is hopefully peaceful.

Is the Modiphius RPG out yet? I didn't think it was out for ages, and their official site has a pre-order page... but the link for the PDF version says it'll give you a link there and then to download it.

And does it cover TOS-era as well? I thought it did from the pre-release stuff, but everything on their page and for images suggests TNG-era only.

>>54603087
>>54604171
>so many phallic ships

>>54603886
Star Trek i feel should always end with a nice not or at least something to look forward to, the only thing id change would be maybe he retires instead or gets booted to some head of security or defense of some colony in the middle of nowhere that no one cares about and nothing ever happens on that he can just disappear in his old age.

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Still doing up kitbashes. Any requests?

Wondering if I should have a second small deflector on the underside of this thing's saucer, or move the torpedo launcher farther forward?

>>54605685
add a nebula pod to the top between the engines

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>>54603731
Holy shit that's awful.

>>54596279
The Outrageous Okona isn't bad. It's Star Trek taking the piss at Star Wars, and especially Han Solo.

>>54606663
>The Outrageous Okona isn't bad.

...How do you sleep at night being so wrong?

It's painful to watch bad comedy, and holy shit there's a lot of failed attempts to be funny in that episode.

>>54586245
Pretty sure the Prime Directive applies to civilians, or some similar law. At the least I don't think Nikolai Rozhenko was a member of Starfleet, but Picard still chewed him out about the Prime Directive for what he did with regards to Boraal.

>>54592138
Picard stood by and watched a planet die.

YOU PEOPLE may have forgotten "Homeward", but I haven't.

>>54590527
Mr Rogers Visits The Enterprise

>>54607345
During the height of the Romulan War, an accident brings him to the future, he negotiates peace before returning to his own time...but not to his own world.
He was Organian all along.

>>54590527
>The tale of bio augmented crew who have gone on an adventure aboard a stolen Feddie frigate to find a treasure of a dead Nausicaan pirate
>A pirate who left it all there in one piece

>>54590527
Young Picard on the Stargazer. A new Lt. (jg), he's one shuttle pilot of the dozens on the ship. He didn't train for this, but it was either this, or be a science nerd that has no real prospects for promotion (as Picard isn't a super genius), so he took what he could. There will be several adventures (I'd format it as a short story anthology), with Picard rising up the ranks, eventually becoming the flight deck controller and Second Officer.

>>54590527
Romulan war battlefleet adventures.

Or

Post-Dominion war political shenanigans

Or

Porn
Really weird porn.
Because fuck it, it would fund a patreon no problem, and it works for Chuck Tingle after all.

>>54590527
I call it Voyager But Not Shit. TOS era Miranda class vessel is taken to the Delta Quadrant by the Caretaker along with a Tholian ship. The Tholian commander, in an attempt to better interact with the crew, creates a quick grown carbon based lifeform made from shuffled DNA from a variety of species who serves as his mouthpiece via a cybernetic link but also develops a personality of his own over time.
Similar adventures and encounters for the crew, but without an insane woman as captain.

>>54607345
>Well, if ye must know, my middle name's "Fencourt", alright?
>...
>Mine's "McNeely"

New Star Trek Continues, featuring John de Lancie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VEZH8bqytA

>>54590527
Shinji and Asuka get flung forward in time by Q after EoE so he has time to clean the place up and repair the timeline before the Borg, Ent-E, and Vulcans show up. Q basically leaves a note with them addressed to Sisko saying "this is for punching me :^)"

>>54596229
>mudd's women
>bad

What the fuck senpai.

>>54609478
Yeah, I'm not sure why that rec list has such a downer on Mudd episodes in general, really.

>>54609478
Maybe something to do with the whole selling people wives, the beauty was in you all along and the drugs do nothing ending, the pretty mediocre actresses who spend most of the episode being whiny, the asshole miners...

I can certainly see why it'd be taken as a bad episode.

(also those women were not hot enough to be convincing at what was going on but that may just be me)

>>54606756
Well as I understand it his whole expedition was equipped from Federation science departments, they seem to do studies on developing alien cultures all the time. Starfleet being the Interstellar arm of Federation they where probably involved in it aswell.

>>54610164
The women not being all that hot is probably due Mudd having slim picking on women who would want to be brides to a bunch miners in backwater planet.

>>54610164
In terms of skeeziness in TOS episodes... okay, it's still up there, but Carmel makes up for it. I was more ticked off by the fact that their being "ugly" just meant they had messy hair.

>>54607582
This sounds like it'd make for a great new series, except they'd fuck it up something awful.,

>>54603731
GM here. I'm not familiar with either of those as I neither read the books nor play STO.

Besides, if the players could just look up the solutions in secondary material where would the fun be?

>>54610860
The only redeeming feature of the Beta canon version is the revelation that the Trill council are keeping the knowledge that symbionts are pretty compatible with the symbiotes, like closer to 5 in 10, causing massive social upheaval. Also, that various Trill scientists were illegally altering records to hide incidents like the crazy host of Dax to prevent the Federation finding. All winding up with an attempted orbital bombardment of the Trill homeworld because FUCK YOU SYMBIOTE MOM AND DAD.

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>>54610804
I mean the actresses chosen.
Saying that '60s lighting, hair and costuming didn't help. But still, they just seemed like the kinda skanks I'd see hanging around a club on a Friday night getting wankered on cheap fruity booze. Not people who are apparently hot enough that it causes them to be a problem for the crew. Now if they were young Diana Muldaur tier hot then I could believe it...

>>54599958
How fucking old are you?

>>54594189
>>54594281
Tommy guns blow big exit holes in Borg drones. 1940s tech would stomp all over the Nausicaans on the surface. Starfleet never used projectile sidearms for crew or MACOs because of the risk of punching holes in critical systems like the hull, the warp core, the conn, etc., and that remains valid, so you'd probably see aggressive use of transporters to force fights on friendly terrain.

>>54611908
>>54594189
Starfleet phasers can anal rape any form of firearms. Starfleet refuses to use projectiles not because they're too powerful, but because they're not nearly versatile enough. Starfleet can set their phasers to stun, "heavy stun", kill, "delete everything in this room" and plenty of other settings.

>>54612088
The point remains that WWII SMGs, carbines, rifles, and even pistols will kill the shit out of any humanoid in Trek short of a Q.

>>54610164
>Maybe something to do with the whole selling people wives
It isn't human trafficking, Mudd was just acting as a broker between men who wanted wives and had money and women who wanted money.

>>54612253
Well yeah, people don't magically get immune to guns just because it's the future.

>>54612694
>Implying people in this day and age know the difference.

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>>54605767
Here you go. I might have the pod up a little too high, but much closer and they'd be touching the Nacelles.

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>>54605767
Now you've got me thinking of ways to add Nebula pods to things.

If we were to give the Miranda a bit of an upgrade, would this be a good idea or a bad idea?

>>54614990
Not the anon who requested the pod, but fuck it.

Add a second torp pod on the underside. And if you can find one, get a saucer with a rounded arrowhead look.

Nothing super angular like a prometheus, but a little bit of nose.

>>54614990
Also, what program are you using to do this? I might want to give it a go.

>>54614990
>>54615321
It feels a bit oversized for a pod.

>>54615344
I'm just using autoCAD but it can be a bit of a pain to put different ships into it at first since the official ship stats can vary quite a bit from what the modelers were using.

Even had a bit of trouble with the Nebula. Though I may have just done a poor job with the Galaxy earlier and it's screwing with my parts sizes now.

>>54615321
Looks solid to me, I'd like a side view if you have one.

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>>54615491
Made two options for Nacelle placement, in line with the saucer, or down a bit.

These nacelles are obviously way too big for a Miranda hull but figured I'd stick with them since the added pod was so big.

>>54615920
The lower design is very Andorian, I like it. Seems like a solid Refit-made-of-bits-laying-about to me.

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>>54616009
Well if you enjoy protecting the hull by keeping the nacelles in the way then okay.

>>54593967
>abbott and costello at montana

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>>54615334
>And if you can find one, get a saucer with a rounded arrowhead look.
So like the Early Intrepid design sketches?

>>54596279
I can't believe how much TNG jumped in quality from S2 to S3.

>>54616416
It's pretty fucking notable. S2 was... a season, at least. It's got a few good episodes (Measure of a Man is legit one of the best things ever aired on TV) but it's pretty shitty overall. Meanwhile, S3 is just solid all around, with lots of really good episodes and only a few mediocre to bad ones.

>>54616290
They like small cross sections and either armored nacelles or using them to shield the hull, yeah.

>>54616366
I'm not exactly a fan of Voyager's design but damn, these are definitely worse than what we got.

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>>54616366
>checked

Close. Something more like pic related would suit the Nebula's lines better.

>>54614990
>How many layers of "fuck shuttle pilots" are you on?
>maybe two or three my shipdude
>you are like a little baby, watch this

>>54617808
Fuck shuttle bay doors.
We'll BEAM them into space.

>>54617862
You say this like it isn't a good idea.

>>54617157
I like that look a lot. It's like a massive Sabre.

>>54617893
It isn't a good idea.

It's a GREAT idea.
Just think of how much more secure you've just made the ship by eliminating the largest ingress/egress points on your vessel.
Can't board a vessel very well when the most obvious and sensible/easy way doesn't exist. You're left with either getting teleported aboard during battle (not the easiest thing to do) or getting a cloaked shuttle close enough undetected to EVA onto the hull. If the latter, you're stuck looking for a hatch or cutting your way in. And both of those options carry a huge risk of detection.

Fuck shuttle bay doors.

>>54617969
I had this idea years ago for launching fighters in close combat. By randomizing the range and location of the launches you reduce the chances of a squadron getting shot down before they can engage. Of course, launching in tactical range is a desperation move anyway so might as well beam fighters into space.

>>54618118
And if you want to do that safely, you'll need to have shield generators that cover smaller sections of the hull so you can drop a small section that you can transport to/from and raise it when done while keeping the rest of the vessel safe.

And if you're going that far, you might as well depressurize the hanger bay once every shuttle/fighter is buttoned up and ready to go so if someone tries to beam in while that bit of shield is down, they either lose that boarding party or have to fight in EVA suits, which reduces their fighting ability.
Couple that with increasing the grav plating of the hanger to 3 times standard during beam out and they're not going to do much of anything.

...I've put too much thought into this.

>>54618171
Better then all the time I spent trying to work out the mechanics of fighting at warp. The engagement times still give me nightmares.

If a bunch of people who owned ships (cargo haulers, private prospectors, independent ferrymen and the like) all clubbed together and decided that it's time to finally do something about the space pirates and "privateers" that predate on them what would the UFP do? Would they do anything?

>>54618996
Watch them and worry about them turning pirate themselves.

That said, "no space pirates" was part of Roddenberry's original vision for Trek, supposedly.

>>54619046
But also let's not for get that Roddenberry and his Vison/Box was the death of good writing and when left to his own devices unchecked gave us some of the worst of TOS and season 1 TNG.

>>54619082
Good point, good point. But why isn't Starfleet cracking down on the pirates in the first place?

>>54619172
Starfleet probably doesn't accept any of that shit happening within its borders. What goes on outside of them, at starbases outside of their borders and in neutral space, isn't as clear cut. Quark had a smuggling business that suffered more from Odo than the UFP contingent cracking down on travel to and from DS9.

>>54619172
Because that's too much like a military and Star Fleet isn't a millitery (no seriously U Guiz totes not a military).

Also those Ferangi Privateers are not part of the official Ferangi Merchant Navy and so writing a letter to Feranginar does jack shit. Add to that that they are customers of the Ferangi Financial Empire and so get their ships serviced by the Ferangi but the Ferangi won't let Star Fleet ships past the border except for cargo ships, it's their border they can dictate terms and if the UFP ignores them then they are violating the sovereignty of another nation with which they are not officially at war and that's bad. Also on the few occasions that "totally nor pirates" get captured outside Ferangi space they are returned to Feranginar for trial and punishment. Then they use the loot to buy themselves out of prison, get a new ship on mortgage and go back to doing what they were doing. All the while the UFP won't do anything because the Ferangi government haven't done anything "illegal" and haven't declared war.


As for the Nausicaans they have no laws to break and every one of them that owns a ship and gets off their shit world is a law unto themselves. Their attitude is "if you want to do it then try to do it and it's up to the other person to stop you". The only way to do anything about them would be to invade their homeworld, occupy it and impose some basic law and order and accountability. But that would be Imperialism and the UFP would really not support that.

So then it falls to private citizens who have had enough to do something. They save up, arm their ships as much as you can arm up a cargo barge, maybe buy some decrepit old Andorian Navy rust buckets from the obsolete storage yard and get them kind of working and go on an purge.

It would more than likely start with the smaller "trading posts" that are totally not pirate bases and escalate from there.

>>54619285
I imagine Ferengi pirates are far more uncommon than the early seasons of TNG would suggest.

>>54604754
I prefer a saucer to be nice and round. >>54614990 Something like this would be badass actually for the ship I have in mind actually!

On the subject of Homeward, the episode with Worf's brother and the Prime Directive as an evil thing moment, I would like to present a view that I feel hasn't been represented in these threads during the numerous arguments on the subject. We're going to look at the maths and circumstances of the situation and why, in most situations, the Boraalan species is doomed.

Let's establish a few basic numbers to begin with. According to the ship spotter guide and DS9 technical manual, the crew compliment of the Galaxy class is 1000. According to the technical manual, the absolute maximum evacuation capacity of the ship is 15,000. The Minimum Viable Population for terrestrial populations is given as roughly 4,000 people by general estimates. This number can be reduced significantly through pre-screening of a population to avoid recessive genes and prior genetic relation.

So lets look at the way things went down first. Nicolai saves a village of Boraalans. We're taking about maybe 50 people, give or take a dozen. Simply put. It is impossible for the Boraalans to have enough genetic diversity to avoid inbreeding and eventual infertility. It might take a century, but the Boraalans will die out.

Now let's look at the alternatives. Let's say that Picard orders that they beam up 15,000. Given the circumstances of the Boraalans, as well as the risk of cultural contamination and time constraints, we have to assume that they would be forced to beam aboard naturalised communities. And then watch as a significant portion of those Boraalans commit suicide, or worse, become hostile to the crew and percipitate the destruction of the ship. Let's assume, from what we see of the Boraalans that they are a predominantly pacifistic species and that latter option is a significant outlier. And we must accept that the 4 onboard Holodecks will not be sufficient to store all 15,000...

>>54621036
I would estimate that they could support ~200-300 people in the holodecks while the remaining 14,700 would have to be kept in general quarters and cargo bays. This, incidentally precludes the viability of using only the Holodecks

We saw with Vorin how they would react to learning the truth, the damaging effect of such extreme culture shock. They are a pre-industrial, pre-contact people who have just learned that their homes and everything they had have just been destroyed. Vorin could not accept this, despite assurances that his people would go on. The loss of their history and culture was too great to bear and he killed himself.

How many of the Boraalans would react the same way? How many would end themselves rather than live on as a shell of their people. I would suspect that that number would be quite high. So, the gamble that the crew have to make is that the Boraalans won’t kill themselves in such high numbers to pass the MVP limit. And that the resulting population has the right mix of sexes and genetic diversity to be sustainable.

>>54621043
Finally, we must look at their new home and the threats it poses to a new species. Let’s say that roughly a third of the Boraalans survive the journey. 5,000 people. Well over our MVP line. A potentially viable population. A population with no natural immunity to local bacteria and viruses. In Star Trek we see that a lot of diseases can species-hop between species that have developed on entirely different worlds. The Boraalans likely have no practical medicines to deal with these afflictions. So now the question is how many will die to these diseases before a local remedy can be developed for them. If that number exceeds a fifth of the population, as it very well may, then we are right back to our initial prognosis, only on a longer time scale. When Boraalus started to die, their species’ fate was effectively sealed. Unless the Federation set themselves up to protect and curate the Boraalan survivors (who might hate them, at this point), they have little-to-no chance of long term survival. Does that make leaving them to die right? I don’t know. But I suspect the Federation isn’t new to this problem. And they are content to leave their laws as they are, with the knowledge of what that means for people like the Boraalans.

As for my own stance on the topic. I’m not sure, honestly. I suspect that it would be much easier to put this episode down to bad writing (but where’s the fun in that?). Feel free to make me into a strawman for your arguments, though. And make sure to randomly capitalise some sentences when you do so, that way people know you’re serious.

>>54621066
Or you could accept that there is no perfect solution just bad solutions but none, in my opinion, so bad as just standing there and watching when you could be doing something. It might not work, but at the very least you can say that you tried.

The UFP had been violating the privacy of these people for years by that point, certainly long enough to know what can be used to sedate them. Fill the cargo hold with knock out gas and beam them into it, have the medical staff supervising the removal of Boraalans from the cargo hold and moved somewhere safer, doesn't have to be pretty, they just have to survive. Enterprise can hold 15,000 people who are conscious and active. These people are going to be unconscious for the trip there so maybe we can up that limit a bit or keep it the same who knows but the minimum of 15,000 can be met.

Whilst they are asleep find the world Worf's brother was going to settle them on. Find the nicest section of the planet. Check out the local wildlife for what's safe to eat and what is not, check for super-ebola and shit as and make a vaccine well with super UFP science.

See if there's any possibility in hiring telepaths to brain raping some exodus memories into their heads.

Have Worf's brother and the other voyeur experts on these people infiltrate the tribes (or at least maintain the masquerade) and pass on the survival training for this environment.

Set up some camp sites complete with camp fire and a prepared meals, beam them down and let them wake up. their last memory was of setting up camp last night after a long journey to get away from the storms of their homeland.

Maybe some will have confused memories but in 50 or 60 years it's just going to be old granddad's bullshit stories.

Cultures survive, species survive and masquerade upheld.

>>54621752

This, frankly. The only thing I would add is that the Federation is now involved for the long haul, because they're responsible for moving these people, which has some ramifications, like sending ships every once in a while to check on them, and possibly give them booster shots or whathaveyou.

Ultimately, cultural contamination is going to take place. You can't just transplant a bunch of small communities to a new place without them developing in ways that they would not have in their native environment.

Eventually the masquerade has to come down. But maybe not for a few generations. It's messy, complicated, and no one is satisfied, but at least everyone is alive to be dissatisfied.

>>54621066
15,000 people is our max? Okay.

1) Beam aboard 15,000 and immediately knock them unconscious as they are beamed aboard. Keep track of who belongs to what village so as to not screw up step (3).

2) Keep them unconscious for the entire trip to the new world and whilst in orbit. Use the replicators and Starfleet Engineering to build settlements on the new world using local materials not exceeding the level that the Boraalans could theoretically build themselves, but don't bother trying to make it look exactly like the Boraalan's homeworld since they're not going to be fooled anyway.

3) Beam the Boraalans down to the new world, keeping the groups from (1) together so that no one ends up in the wrong village. Let them wake up on their own and figure stuff out for themselves.

Maybe it was an act of the gods. Maybe it was dark magic, or maybe it was good magic. Whatever the Boraalans decide happened, at least they're alive.

>>54621752
Oh, hey, someone already posted exactly what I did. And it was the solution I had the very first time I watched the episode. When I was 10.

For years I was wondering if I was some kind of genius or something for thinking up this solution, but nope, it turns out it was obvious!

Man, fuck the UFP sometimes.

>>54622195

Really, fuck TNG's writers. They seem to think moral cowardice is a virtue.

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MST3K's motto seems fairly appropriate right now.

>>54621752
>>54622172
The Enterprise can do precisely none of those things in the amount of time and resources they had to work with. They could maybe pull it off with a dedicated colony transport ship, but the Enterprise is not a miracle "do everything" ship.

>"hurr durr you should still try"
Part of Picard's job is the unfortunate and tragic realization that they simply cannot save everyone, no matter how hard they try. "You can make no mistakes and still lose. That is not a failure, that's life." The Enterprise simply could not save more than a small village, and that village is going to end up dying out in a handful of generations. The only thing Worf's brother did was prolong their suffering. There is no "moral virture", it's simply an unfortunate tragedy, and no amount of kicking and screaming like a toddler screeching "but they can still tryyyyyy!!!!" will change that.

>>54621066
Here's the real question:
How would the other major powers of the quadrant respond to the same scenario.

>>54623554
Except that they just pointed out what should be done, how it could be done and within the Enterprise's capabilities.

Also the Enterprise was a do everything ship, that was the point of the Galaxy class.

>>54623588
Klingons and Romulans: no shits given, wouldn't even be studying them in the first place.
Cardassians: might have been studying them, maybe using them for forced labour but likely again giving no shits if they had to up and leave them to die.
Breen: probably would have caused the environment problems deliberately.
Ferengi: they've nothing of value to be worth taking from them so no shits given over a bunch of worthless primitives.

>>54623638
Except they can't actually do that. They only had a few hours until the planet was completely uninhabitable. They cannot transport that many people in that amount of time, even with using every transporter room. Then you want to knock them unconscious. How? Is that even possible with the technology they have? Then you need medical personnel to look after them, which they don't have enough of. Can't just put them all in stasis because they don't have that many stasis units.

No, the Enterprise is not a miracle ship that can do everything with its almighty god powers. The whole point of the episode was that it was an impossible situation, and all Nikolai did was save a doomed village to a painful extinction because of his own short-sightedness and emotion.

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Can someone help a nigga out: Me and my friends are getting bored with Attack Wing, too simple, and I was looking into more detailed starship combat games. I basically am now deciding between the old FASA "Star Trek: Starship Tactical Combat Simulator" and the Amarillo "Star Fleet Battles/Federation Commander". Has anyone here played both and can provide some compare and contrast feedback?

>>54623588
>Klingons
Laugh at the silly Boraalans for evolving on a shitty planet.

>Romulans
Note the speed at which the native population dies. Abduct several live specimens to catalogue their genetic structure.

>Breen/Tholians
Shrug. Maybe take some slaves to work to death.

>Cardassians
Save as many as possible to turn them into a sustainable slave race.

>Ferengi
Hard to tell. Might take a few to sell as slaves. Might save some and set them up as a client race. Might just watch it happen and leave.

>>54623750
>Breen: probably would have caused the environment problems deliberately.

What's the Breen's fucking problem again?

>>54623588
The Federation is literally the only notable group that would bother giving a shit in the first place.

>>54623799
They have at least 2 cargo transports that can transport people. They have 1 dedicated people transporter. They have replicators capable of making anaesthetic.

Maybe they wouldn't be able to get a full 15,000 but if one man could do what he did covertly then maybe more than a few dozen could have been saved in the hours/days that they had.

>>54623799

> Then you want to knock them unconscious. How?

Set ship phasers to stun.
Worked in "A Piece of the Action".

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>>54624007
They're pissed humanity created Neil Breen and not them. They've never lived it down and are taking it out on everyone in reach.

>>54624273
Careful, he might get upset that the shit writing made the heroes look like asshole.

>>54624007
Nobody knows. They're complete cunts for seemingly no reason. That's what makes them so fun.

>>54624007
for whatever reason they have a focus on conquering shit. Why they bother taking slaves when they could make robots is beyond me.

basically the answer is 'they're assholes.'

>>54624273
Even if it's guaranteed that would work with more powerful phasers from a century later (it's not) you still haven't addressed how they can beam up at least 5,000 people, let alone 15,000, in only a couple hours using the ship's combined transporters (they can't) and how they can keep all those thousands of people alive while incapacitated using the medical staff of a single starship (they can't).

Homeward is a terribly-written garbage episode, but the moral aspect is only in question if you make the Enterprise to be an almighty god ship (it's not).

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>>54615334
>>54617157
Sovereign/ Saber hybrid? Interesting.

Here's a start at least with an Intrepid hull. They are not a big ships.

>>54625623

Sorry, I didn't bother to read what the initial argument was about. Just wanted to point out that mass stunning whole city blocks is a thing.
Assuming that it's not possible with more modern weaponry is bullshit though, there's no reason it shouldn't work.

As for the transporters:
They managed to deploy a planet wide police operation using only the transporters of the Lakota after disabling the power grid in Homefront, so throughput is not really an issue.
Maybe store people in the transporter buffer after reversing their polarity or rig some holodeck shenaningans, idk.

>>54625846
>They managed to deploy a planet wide police operation using only the transporters of the Lakota after disabling the power grid in Homefront
Leyton and Sisko used the Lakota, but assuming it's the only ship near Earth is idiotic. Hell, there's even an entire massive-ass space mushroom up in orbit.

Look, the point is, even though I hate the episode, I can at least tell what the story was trying (and failing) to be. The Enterprise is faced with an impossible situation, Nikolai tries to save the day, but all he does is make things worse. That the episode was poorly-written should not be an invitation to nitpick it apart with headcanons to push some edgy teenage fanfic about how the Federation is a bunch of heartless monsters.

>>54625913
Things in the actual TV series counts as headcanon now?

>>54625993
When you have people claiming the Enterprise could pull 15,000 people off the planet in a couple hours and keep them unconscious and alive along enough to move them to a suitable planet, all without any of them waking up or noticing anything was wrong, yeah that's headcanon.

>>54625913

> but assuming it's the only ship near Earth is idiotic.

About as idiotic as assuming 24th century phasers don't have a stun setting?

> entire massive-ass space mushroom up in orbit

Was it ever so much as mentioned again after Star Trek VI?
Might have been pretty useful to have in case of Borg or Breen attacks...

>>54626104
Why are you so determined to kill an entire race, you cynical naysayer? Is the simple act of attempting to help the less fortunate so abhorrent to you that any plan, regardless of the chance of success is automatically doomed to failure? If nothing else there's nobility in the attempt.

>>54623482
How are the Rifftrax Star Trek episodes?
>>54623826
I seem to recall one of them (SFB?) was fodder for Murphy's Rules
http://www.sjgames.com/murphys/

>>54626296
"Just tryyyyyy!!!" screams the adolescent child while kicking and screaming on the floor, unable to comprehend that people aren't perfect and he can't wave a magic wand to make everything right.

"They didn't, so they must be evil all along!" yells the edgy teenage shut-in as he works on his fanfic where the Federation are the bad guys.

>>54626333
So in spite of the fact that the technology is there and provably able to attempt at least one plan that could preserve the species, I shouldn't because it's immature to help people?

>>54626396
>the technology is there
It isn't, that's the point. You cannot save enough people to keep the species going for longer than a few generations before they die out alone and forgotten. You're not preserving anything, only delaying the inevitable.

>>54626104

Well, the Ent-D has six personnel transporters (four on deck 6 of the saucer, two more on deck 14 of the engineering hull). Additionally, there are four cargo transporters that can be altered to transport people, though not at its full function when in cargo mode (they be tied into the personnel pattern buffers for a 50% improved throughput in emergency situations). These six have a range of 40,000 kilometers.

According to the TNG Technical Manual, using all six a maximum capacity provides a beam up rate of approximately 700 persons per hour. It would take a little less than a day for the Ent-D to beam up 15,000 people.

>TNG Tech Manual, pg. 109; 9.5 "Transporter Evacuation" under the subheading "Evac to Ship"

>>54626445
>it isn't
You have to to show that in any manner besides saying it would be hard to do.
>Blah blah why try blah blah heat death of the universe
Arguably railing against the inevitable, and winning, is the defining trait of being human.

>>54626483

Note also that they could probably improve that number by bringing the cargo transporters online in personnel mode and tying them in to the main transporter buffer.

>>54626483
They didn't have a day. The atmosphere was already breaking down, there was already massive storms and radiation that would've hampered their efforts. Even with using all of them at maximum capacity, they're not beaming up enough people.

>>54626104
Ent-D had 4 Cargo Bays but only 2 had transporters. If they worked like the main transporter did where each segment was supposed to work for one person then that gives us 8 people per cycle for the cargo bays. Assuming Ent-D had only 1 main transporter room it had 6 pads and 1 big pad in the middle for fat bastards. so we have 15 people per transport cycle. In the episode Realm of Fear (Barcley finds things living in the transporter episode) Gordie (or possibly Data) mentions that the transporter takes twice the normal time due to technobabb reasons and puts it at 4 - 5 seconds. So even without an emergency mass site to site beaming that's 24 people per pad per minute assuming 2.5 seconds. 720 people per minute with all 15 pads working. 43,200 people per hour.

This is assuming optimal conditions, though Nikolai managed to move an entire tribe without harm in the middle of extreme atmospheric conditions from inside a cave into a working holodeck using a hacked cargo transporter so it seems that the conditions aren't fucking with the signal too much

We know that the replicators can make matter that is pre-programmed and we know that the Enterprises doesn't set course back to the nearest starbase every time someone brings a new germ on board so we know that they have the capability to make various complex chemical compounds and mixtures. And we know that Nikolai and his coworkers have been spying on these people for years and if Bones a century earlier can detect the species of a surgically altered man in less than a second to name nothing of the medical miracles performed on the Enterprise under Picard it's reasonable to assume that they can make some tailored chloroform for minimal risk knockout. Assuming you can't use the transporter to knock someone out mid-transport

That's the immediate problem of getting them off the planet unconscious sorted even if it means that some of the crew have to wear those fashion atrocities that are Star Fleet space suits

>>54626571
If only they had pattern enhancers they could send down to the surface, and futuristic methods of radiation treatment and resuscitation...Oh well, better leave them to die.

>>54626594
Nikolai was able to move the entire tribe because there's only a handful of them, he already knew were they were, and they were sheltered from the storms. Good luck trying that across the entire planet when your sensors are being fucked with and when other people won't be as sheltered.

>>54626608
Yeah, those wonderful pattern enhancers that need to be activated manually and require 6 to cover an area of maybe 10 feet. What a wonderful fucking plan that totally isn't you just grasping at straws.

>>54626445
Each normal transporter can probably get 15-20 people a minute (they're unconscious, so it would take longer than normal), and the cargo transporters can probably do the same. There are 20 transporter rooms. That's at least 300 people a minute. In just one hour that's 18,000 people.

>>54626571

So, is it all or none in this situation? No middle ground? They had at least several hours, according to the episode transcript, but wasted it in hand wringing.

>DATA: Captain, atmospheric dissipation has accelerated over the past several hours. I estimate the planet's atmosphere will be completely gone within three minutes.

Granted, we don't know how long it took before Worf could safely beam down, or for Worf and Nikolai to beam up, and then for Picard to chew Nikolai out, and then for Nikolai to setup his "com link" thanks to the magic time warp of TV storytelling.

Minimum effort: They could have at least considered the idea, and said something like "the atmospheric distortions are too unpredictable for a mass transport like this, we'd lose as many as we saved" or "we could have, but we didn't arrive in time". Instead we got a firm "no, that's not the way we do things around here, mister".

>>54626727

I'm not even on his side, but there's only ten transporters. He's right that there's not enough time to get 15k people. My contention is that there's enough time to save more than a single village, and thus an opportunity to do more good than sit there and pontificate.

>>54626594
After that just remains the job of keeping them unconscious but healthy, though again this should, in the short term not require anything as extreme as temporal abeyance or cryo-tubes, just anesthetic and an IV drip. We can keep people alive for years with today's technology in that sort of sad state so this should not be a problem beyond the hassle of replicating that many drip bags and attaching them to the abductees.

Then is the matter of finding them a new home although thankfully that was solved in the show when the crew were faced with no other option than to actually try and do something.

After-care is the main expense in this mission in trying to teach several thousand bronze age people how to adapt to a new home. Thankfully there should be ample time as they are all asleep and shelved for some time. As Nikolai and his friends have spent years masquerading as them and taking meticulous notes (because that's not creepy) they are the best qualified for leading the acclimatization program.

Give it a few of the local years/season cycles to make sure they know what they are doing and then leave a monitoring satellite like they should have done with Khan.

>>54626732
>Minimum effort: They could have at least considered the idea, and said something like "the atmospheric distortions are too unpredictable for a mass transport like this, we'd lose as many as we saved" or "we could have, but we didn't arrive in time".
And I've agreed numerous times that the episode is poorly written, but that doesn't defeat the broader story. Again, there's no reason to nitpick just to make the Federation look like edgy fanfic villains. I'm even hesitant to humor the technical manuals because you could probably look through them to justify some other nitpicking for any other episode.

>>54626759
>not even bothering to check memalpha
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Galaxy_class#Transporter_rooms

>>54626723
A it is your argument seems to be

>it's hard, therefore we shouldn't attempt it.

>>54626800
You're assigning an ulterior motive that doesn't exist to justify your refusal to concede that the technology is suitable to the task. Looking up the specs isn't nitpicking, it's what literally any engineer aboard should already know. Add on to this the fact that the show is largely based around unlikely solutions to massive problems in a limited time frame using the technology at hand, and I have to wonder why you're playing devil's advocate with such an untenable argument.

>>54626862
Technical manuals are always soft-canon. You should know this by now.

>>54626893
And yet the things they show onscreen support this plan, see: >>54626594
Try harder.

>>54626893
Remember, don't counter the argument, attack the credibility of the sources (that a different person is referencing) with things that 'everyone knows'.

>>54626893
Hard canon would be hat we see in the show.

Which is at least 2 cargo bays with transporters at least 1 regular transporter and a 2ish seconds per transport, the ability to replicate shit loads of simple chemical substances and lots of storage space.

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I am against moving the primitives on the grounds that introducing a completely alien species into a new environment is a really fucking bad idea.

Also, fuck 'em.

I'd like to buy a copy of the rulebook but with no physical copies where I live and no pirated version available I'm not sure I want to spend the money on a PDF version without knowing if it's a system I'd like to run.

Anyone have a PDF of the core rulebook? The old links expired. :(

>>54627063
See, this is a perfectly reasonable counter argument.
>>54627080
Gimme a skype or a discord or something and I'll send you a copy.

>>54627063
You can't use that argument whilst the UFP sends or allows and supports the sending out of colony ships to any planet with an atmosphere you can breathe. And has terraforming projects.

>Also, fuck 'em.
Given that Picards speech on the bridge as he watched world die boiled down to "I'm up here, they're down there, I have fancy toys and they can suck vacuum. Muh noble sorrow".

>>54623554
>the Enterprise is not a miracle "do everything" ship.
>what is the Galaxy class

>>54626806

Guess what? You should have read further:

>Galaxy-class starships had twenty transporter rooms located throughout the vessel. (TNG: "11001001") Four transporter rooms were located on Deck 6 in the saucer section, (TNG: "The Game") while two more were on Deck 14 in the stardrive section. (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint")

So, unless they neglected to mention the other 14 transporters, that's only SIX. Also, those are the personnel transporters described in the Tech Manual. There are four other cargo transporters, and 6 emergency transporters that only work one way (off the ship). That total is 16.

So, whomever wrote that is a jackass, and MemoryAlpha is less accurate and less official than the Tech Manual.

>>54626800

The only one who is an edgy fanfic villain is Picard, not the Federation as a whole. It just depends on who is writing him at the time. Mischaracterized, certainly, but somehow not the villain in this instance? No. He's definitely the villain of the story.

>>54626445
>You're not preserving anything, only delaying the inevitable.
...and he's the edgy one?

>>54626862
Look, you could make an argument that the Federation is full of evil retards because they're knowingly still using warp drive that destroys subspace. Except nobody does nor should make that argument because most people agree that Force Of Nature was also a stupid episode and headcanons advancements in warp tech as having easily solved the problem off-screen. It's the same thing here. The point of the episode is very obviously "Enterprise encounters a problem they can't solve." You can nitpick secondary sources all you want to try and prove they could save the day, but that's completely defeating the purpose when you can just rationalize a perfectly valid justification why they couldn't (sensor interference, radiation interference, atmospheric turbulence, and so on).

My argument is you're splitting hairs to justify an edgy headcanon of the Federation as being hypocritical murderers even though all other evidence proves otherwise.

>>54627260

Now, I've looked at the transcript of the episode, and while it says there are twenty, I'm betting this is either a continuity error (and includes the emergency transporters), or they had some kind of off-screen refit to provide that many transporters.

You decide. I don't especially care one way or another.

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>>54627175
Sure I can. Colonies are planned and supported, they know what they're doing.
Dumping a bunch of no-tech primitives somewhere in a hurry because their planet fell apart is just asking for all sorts of trouble.

Nah, fuck 'em.

>>54627338
I don't know why you're strawmanning me so hard, and bringing politics into a purely technical problem.

>>54627338
>even though all other evidence proves otherwise
Except all the evidence that supports the other side and makes the UFP out to be an indifferent monolith.

>>54627421
I don't know how you can continuously miss the point when it's been beaten into your head repeatedly. It's a shitty badly-written episode. Leave it at that.

>>54627426
Just because you quote Les Miserables doesn't mean you're in the right, Eddington.

>>54627446
>My argument has been trashed, better move the goalposts and declare victory.

>>54627446
But much like Pen Pals, The Measure Of A Man, Symbiosis, Silicon Avatar, The Offspring and I Borg it is the hardest of hard canon and shows the UFP to be either uncaring, have incompetent member in high places or be at least mildly malevolent when it suits them.

>>54627460
Eddington was a moron. Star Fleet couldn't afford a conflict with the Cardassians at that time, especially not for muh dirt farm.

>>54627502
It's not my fault if you can't follow a conversation chain.

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>>54627605
It's not our fault you can't recognize a problem that boils down, at it's heart, to;

Can and how we use these tools at our disposal on this problem we are faced with.

>Tools
Enterprise and all the things and people on it

>Problem
A natural hazard that a load of civilians are going to die in

>Solution
The aforementioned thing with the transporters and the chloroform

>>54627582
>Pen Pals, Symbiosis
Picard solves a problem and the Federation thinks he did the right thing. There should be no problems here.

>Measure Of A Man, Offspring
Federation has a blind spot when it comes to things that they've created. You can probably throw Quality Of Life and Author, Author in here as well. At any rate, Federation law had not caught up to the rights of artificial life forms yet, and the general cultural belief was that artificial creations are simply tools. Legal procedures helped deal with these issues, but there was no intentional malevolence.

>Silicon Avatar, I Borg
Genocide is not acceptable, Sloan. If another race can be communicated with then there's the chance of peaceable relations. Both of these episodes proved it to be true. The Borg as a faction are obviously hostile and the Federation should defend themselves whenever necessary but that doesn't not justify genocide against the Borg as a race when it was proven that they can become independent of the hive, or even that a non-hostile hive can be formed. Crystalline Entity is literally just an animal, I don't think it was ever demonstratively sentient, therefore there was the possibility of simply herding it away from populated areas so it could feed without harming anyone.

>>54627722
No, you're still suffering from the same inability to understand what the real argument is after I've stated it over and over.

>>54627779
>No, you're still suffering from the same inability to understand what the real argument is after I've stated it over and over.

No. I understand. I just think you are wrong.

Star Fleet thinking he did the right thing, or at least not too wrong a thing as to require a chewing out, does not mean Star Fleet is infallible. Or not possessed by purple grubs.

In Pen Pals Cpt. Picard was going to let a whole world die but then had an attack of the feels when the little girl said she was scared. He betrayed his principles for muh fee fees.

In Symbiosis the planetary death rate is going to spike dramatically on Cold Turkey Planet and the society of Dealer Planet is going to collapse over night. Whilst Dealer Planet can't be helped in this scenario beyond returning to the parasitic relationship Turkey Planet can by telling them that they will be fine in a few weeks at most. This will almost certainly result in a war between the two as Turkey world want to get even but that's coming regardless, all that can be done is maybe alleviating some of the panic beforehand.

In Measure of a Man they let him become an officer, presumably get citizenship, decorated him with medals and then decided he was only worth 3/5ths of the person because it was convenient and they don't care.

In Offspring they already had the precedent of Measure of a Man but then decided that it didn't apply to Lal because no reason. Also it was suspicious how quickly that Admiral manifested to confiscate a child for the Glory of the State.

Wiping out the zombie virus is not genocide, therefore wiping out the Borg is not genocide.

Kirk and co saw no problem in exterminating a planet killing space amoeba, why should killing the Crystalline Entity be any different?

>>54628050
Here's the thing; even if we assume your interpretation is the sole correct one... so fucking what?

>>54628200
It would mean that the UFP as Roddenberry's Vision™ is in certain regards pretty suspect.

>>54628287
So?

>>54628287

Let's be honest though, Roddenberry was a drug addict who deliberately screwed people over for money, used a lawyer to harass people, and rewrote scripts to the point that writers quit or wouldn't put their real names on them.

Some of his ideas were absurd and terrible. But not all of them, or there wouldn't even be an /stg/ let alone all the other crap Trek fandom has put together.

Occasionally I think it should have gone the Lost in Space route. A time capsule that was more or less forgotten and got a shitty 90s movie that completely misunderstood the show.

I guess I can just pretend.

>>54627260
Just because a particular transporter room is not mentioned doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We only know the locations of those six, plus one or two more (the cargo bay transporters that we see directly). Also, show directly trumps any tech manual, or anything else for that matter besides later episodes. (Indeed, the tech manuals specifically can be pretty wrong, just given visual data; they're just fun wankery for the fans, not something the show is actually based on). The episode in question directly mentions 20 transporter rooms (listed 1-20), PLUS some cargo transporters that are apparently closer to the top of the ship than rooms 1-4. That's what we have to go on, so that's what we have to assume is actually there. We can't assume anything else besides that those are specific rooms like any other, since that's all the episode gives us.

>>54628287
It's okay to examine any suspect areas in Federation policy. Like I said, they have a blind spot when it comes to things that people consider their own creations. They also prefer solutions that satisfy the many, even if the few need to be inconvenienced. You can explore the ramifications of that. But it's possible to do that and portray the Federation as flawed without portraying them as evil. The idealistic future doesn't have to portray everyone as perfect, but the Federation should be seen as an organization that tries its best, even if they screw up sometimes along the way.

>>54628567
>They also prefer solutions that satisfy the many, even if the few need to be inconvenienced.

Like the Baku and the fountain of eternal youth, health and long life.

Except the opposite happened there.

>>54628529

The Tech Manual was just a cleaned up version of the show's tech writing guide. In general, yes, the show trumps any other secondary source, but that's the rub: the show itself is self-contradictory, and never remembers a solution from a previous episode that can solve a similar situation.

If you want to take the 20 transporters as a solid thing, then fine. But at least some of them are one way (off the ship). The episode that mentions the 20 is from '88. The Tech Manual is from '91. One of the two sources is wrong. If the TM is wrong, that's fine. There's four transporters unaccounted for.

Are they cargo transporters? Emergency one way (off the ship) transporters? Personnel transporters? Or some combination thereof?

Either way, I don't think it matters. The argument has moved beyond talk of transporters is now just entering the true mudslinging phase.

>>54627131

Sargun#9399

>>54627131

also thank you, I appreciate this :)

>>54629135
>>54629157
Sent a thing.

>>54628610
However on that occasion Picard was acting against the interests of the Federation. Admiral doesn't-even-rate-an-Excelsior wasn't there as part of some clandestine scheme. He was there to aquire a new wonder drug that could save billions.
And all for the low-low price of displacing some non-native, post warp space luddites. To me, Picard's actions, and the actions of the crew, in insurrection are much worse than in Homecoming.

>>54629270

Remember when Picard purged the upper echelons of Starfleet command when he learned they were infested with parasites? He basically can't do anything wrong. He probably could have taken over Starfleet in the wake of that cockup.

Occasionally, Picard is the villain of the story. But he gets a pass because no one will actually punish him.

>>54629316
He got rid of two Admirals and a Lieutenant. There are dozens of admirals to take up the gap.

>>54629798

Obviously, but Admiral Berman and Admiral Pillar would never punish Jean Luc. Admiral Hastur has to be named three times to summon him, but he only eats ensigns, and thinks highly of Picard. Riker got his Mastery of Science degree signed off by Admiral Roddenberry, so obviously, that's another one in Picard's stable of command officers who would view anything he did in the most favorable light.

>http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Admiral

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Loudest admiral in the fleet.

>>54586047
>get st: ascendancy
>three factions
>ten turn order cards
>three expacs in pipeline
How many faction could ST reasonably support? Base has Klinks, Feds, and Romulans, expacs are coming out for the Cardies, Ferengi, and Borg, and the Crystalline Entity exploration card says Tholians can ignore it. The Dominion is obvious, but is there anything else? I guess they could come up with Breen and Gorn factions, but information on them seems too sparse to give them a unique aesthetic and twenty-odd tech cards.

>>54631815

There's always the Mirror Universe, Orion Syndicate, Maquis, and maybe some Delta Quadrant stuff like the Kazon.

I doubt the Maquis would work as a full faction, but I've never played Ascendancy. Just got into Attack Wing.

>>54631815
Depends on how big a faction has to be for it to matter in the game, cos there's a ton of smaller powers around, stuff that usually turns up as an antagonist for a single episode but are notable enough to still be a threat somehow.

Like the ones who did the memory wipe on the TNG crew... probably should have just bought arms from the Ferengi if they were that desperate. Or the ones with the abducted human kid. Or the Orions (worked for SFB).

Problem is most lack a LOT of detail, even accounting for entirely non-canon stuff.

>>54626800
>but that doesn't defeat the broader story

I understand the broader story, but that broader story takes place in a broader universe. I understand that the episode is poorly written, but it also HAPPENED and has never been decanonized, and as a result every time I see Picard past that point I think of him - and his whole crew - as people who basically just stepped aside and watched a world die without doing a damn thing to try and prevent it even though they had at least some options - tons of them, by the lore of Star Trek.

Far worse a question then "why didn't you stay out of it?" is "where were you when you were needed?" The worst thing that could have happened if they'd tried to save the Boraalans is that they'd fail, and that just leaves the Boraalans in the same situation as before.

Just because they were trying to tell a certain kind of story, doesn't give them a pass when they fuck up the lore, the writing, and the moral.

But then I admit that I have a particularly personal hatred of this episode as Picard and co.'s actions in it are utterly reprehensible, yet Archer gets crucified in "Dear Doctor" for a far less deplorable choice.

>>54633028
>The worst thing that could have happened if they'd tried to save the Boraalans is that they'd fail, and that just leaves the Boraalans in the same situation as before.

The worst thing that could happen, and fairly easily at that, is not just fucking up them, but fucking over whatever planet they get left on too.

Honestly though the episode is pretty forgettable for me, was in that drek of season 7 where everything had to be tied to someone's relative for fuck knows what reason. Seriously there was no reason to have that dude be Worf's step-brother or whatever he counts as. Or be just one dude. And all the stuff you're on about was merely set-up. Which distinguishes it from Archer's fucking up because a: Archer is incredibly unlikable and b: the episode built up to it.

If it wasn't for SFDebris I swear nobody would even remember this shit to bother getting angry about it on Peruvian rock tumbling forums.

>>54633028
>that broader story takes place in a broader universe
>which is why I'm going to completely ignore everything else in the broader universe so I can shit on Picard because the writer for the episode didn't look up how many transporters the ship has

>>54633188
>but fucking over whatever planet they get left on too.

Which was an uninhabited one anyway. And how much fucking up can a few thousand bronze-age tech people do to an entire planet?

>>54633237
Even ignoring the broader universe, in the very episode itself Nikolai was able to beam up 50 people in one go to the holodeck. I can only assume that the Enterprise could have grabbed more if it had tried.

>>54633265
Quite a lot just looking at what humanity managed to do when it turned up some place they'd not been before.

>>54633386
Again - bronze age tech. Just a few thousand people. They're not going to do any appreciable "damage".

>>54633605
Still more than enough capability to exterminate a ton of creatures, humanity did that much with stone age tech. Just look up what happened with Australia for a nice example of that.

Let alone the biological damage they might bring with whatever bacteria and such they're carrying with them.

>>54633765
And yet still less damage than the Crystalline Entity causes within an hour of finding a new world yet it gets a free pass for some reason.

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>>54633829
I put it down to TNG trying really hard to not be TOS where they would have just tried to kill it like any other space monster.

They didn't like doing space monsters on TNG at all yet we got them all the time on TOS, and a lot of them were the better episodes, like The Doomsday Machine which is definitely a top 5 maybe even top 3 tier one.

Kinda weird in retrospect but most likely just a product of the times.

>>54619215
Yeah but that's complicated, they even mention DS9's an ideal smuggling port because it's just outside of Federation patrol space and very near WAY outside Feddie patrol space and more importantly, it's technically Bajoran.

Once the Bajorans formally join the Federation I imagine a lot of that'll dry up, though you'll always have commanders like Sisko who're entirely willing to suffer petty criminals to further other goals.

>>54634081
The idea of the Crystalline Entity as just a giant animal in space is an interesting one because it draws parallels to real life animals like bears. Yeah grizzly bears are big and nasty and 100% will fuck you up without exception and can fuck up a bunch of people if left unchecked. But at its core it's just another big dumb animal that just wants to feed and protect itself, and in that respect it can be herded around into areas where it won't hurt actual people instead of having to kill all of them.

>>54634081

The planet killer isn't a monster in the traditional sense. I can't say it's actually inspired by the Berserkers from Fred Saberhagen's universe of short stories, but I guess in some official and semi-official stuff it's been called a berserker. Essentially it's a robot weapon of mass destruction, much like the titular Berserkers.

The first Berserker story was published in '63, and TDM aired in '67, so it's possible the stories inspired the episode, but robots and weapons of mass destruction have been a major theme in science fiction since the beginning, and they could have just been really similar ideas conceived independently of one another.

>>54624007
Their whole thing is being ridiculously mysterious. They're the Breen, they do what they want.

>>54634285

That and being Flanderized by Riker's off the cuff statement "Cold as the Breen" in one episode.

>>54634316
I mean I'd say defined, really. Plus that could be literal, Sisko mentions "If anyone knows how to keep something cold, it's the Breen."-they live in refrigeration suits.

>>54634398

Or it could have been figurative, that they're distant and cruel, and don't understand things like mercy, or value nonsense like honor. But, that would take effort. Ice themed villains are more immediately obvious to audiences.

>>54634489
I mean they're not really ice themed. They have refrigeration suits but they use death rays instead of freeze rays.

The production notes say the Breen started as a running gag, a race who got a different, contradictory trait mentioned every time they got referenced. Then they needed heavies for the Dominion and had to make a species out of that and went "fuck it they're Mysterious, no one knows WHAT their whole deal is.", which I think is a pretty good hook for an antagonistic Trek species. They defy the whole exploration theme of the setting by being violently protective of their privacy.

>>54634671

Even the refrigeration suits are up in the air. That may not be what they are at all.

Incidentally, I probably should have specified that it's non-alpha canon stuff that depicts the Breen as ice themed villains. STO in particular is guilty of this, to the point that they use ice grenades, the CRM-200 is an ice beam, and their 4-piece space set lets you vent cryo-plasma from the warp nacelles.

>>54634758
>STO is retarded
In other news, water remains wet and the sky still looks blue.

>>54634758
I mean I don't MIND some shit besides disruptors and phasers. Freeze rays could be cool. I really like the idea of Breen warping planets's biomes for mysterious reasons.

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>>54634758
Yeah but that's because the STO writers couldn't come up with a good idea even if they were given it for free.
It's like their whole shtick is to have the dumbest shit, waste of the setting stories possible, far more so than even just having to adapt stuff for MMO gameplay could ever account for.

Even Voyager's most egregious bullshit is only vaguely comparable to the unfiltered utter retardation they've built into STO.

>>54634780

It is what it is. It's just a shame we don't have any good Trek games anymore (not that the old ones aren't still available and aren't good - they are, mostly, but it'd be nice to have something other than what we have).

>>54634836

I ended up going with the ice theme for my ground gear because it's useful for slowing/freezing enemies. It's dumb, but...

>>54634863
Better than the Breen novelverse crap, at least.

>>54634863

Believe me, I 100% agree with you. The Lukari arc started somewhat promising, and then took a huge nosedive. And now they've dragged poor Tony Todd and J.G. Hertzler into this mess.

>>54634897
>"Hey, you know how we killed off Martok in the backstory? Well it turns out we can't think of a single solitary story idea without dragging in someone from one of the shows, so we came up with a retarded way to bring him back."

>>54633765
So you're prioritizing some animals over the survival of a sapient species and at least some vestige of its civilization?

>>54634882
Aside from the fetishy species choices, I do like the idea that the Breen aren't a single species, but instead are the ultimate in equality multi species Federation. You're all wearing the suits, chattering in the lingo. There's (technically) no racism, and everything is ostensibly merit based. Where it falls down is that the Breen somehow out HUMINT both the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order because snowsuits hide our species hue.

>>54636129
Wouldn't be the first time Star Fleet has done that.

Crystalline Entity strips whole worlds of all life except maybe simple shit hiding at the back of caves or at the bottom of deeps sea canyons. Every blade of grass, every tree, every flower, every person and even down to the bacteria in the soil.

The argument that it is doing it for survival sake with no more malevolence than a whale to krill could be made. But then it makes course corrections to attack cargo ships out in the inky black and if it needs life on the planetary scale to survive then on a level of hunger the cargo ship isn't going to even register at all. It must have only been doing it for the entertainment value.

"oh no we couldn't possibly destroy it for some unfathomable reason, better continue to let it devour whole colonies, civilizations, species and reduce worlds to lifeless husks"

Insane doctor was insane and her reasoning was flawed but much like Picard in Pen Pals she got to the right place via the stupidest road.

>>54637697
Think of the scientific advancements that could be made form it dude.
They could probably build some massive superweapon from a lobotomized CE and then forget about it until some beta canon bullshit.

>>54634671
>>The production notes say the Breen started as a running gag, a race who got a different, contradictory trait mentioned every time they got referenced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mriU5oEko-A

You're all missing the obvious solution here. Bomb the Boraalans to oblivion and be done with it.

>>54641034
Oh hi Janeway.

>>54636295
See the problem is we already have a group that does that, the Xindi. They do it more interestingly, too.

I'm fine with Breen not being consistent, I like the idea that you see something different under that suit every time, but that should maybe be a psychic thing instead of "Xindi in boxes."

>>54631815

it's pretty much settled at this point

1. Federation (Which should be called Humans)
2. Romulans
3. Klingons
4. Cardassians
5. Ferengi
6. Vulcans
7. Andorians
8. Tholians

so there's only 2 factions left really, and one of them will be the Breen imho

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>>54642065

Borg is coming in November and will be an NPC faction, and my guess is the Dominion will be a similar "player"

Saying all that: The game is awesome and if you can get past the hefty price tag you should definetly get it :D

>>54642136
I need those Borg in my life ASAP motherfucker. I really hope there will be a few copies at GenCon like they said there would be.

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I have officially made something worse than the Yeager class.

Any kind folks out there with a link to a PDF of the core rulebook?

Many thanks in advance.

>>54642728
Still looks better than Discovery

>>54642728
now add another set of nacelles to it

>>54643040
Why stop at just one? With that much lateral hull space you could have a dozen nacelles.

>>54643040
And a Miranda's torpedo pod.

And the nacelles that don't fit the style like the Galaxy class's ones or oversized Runabout ones.

>>54641127

The right way, the wrong way, and the Janeway.

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