/btg/ BattleTech General

>>54491799

You run the Urbie Derby. Just get enough Urbanmechs to line one entire board edge of the map. Every hex full of urbies. Run the urbies forward every turn. Anything that gets within AC-10 range gets buttraped by cannon fire and eventually with the advancing wall of urbanmech DEATH, they have to.

The enemy's choice becomes to retreat off the board edge or face the Urbanmech wrath.

Nth for requesting a link for TRO SW because I am a leecher

Haha, Urbie Hold

Can someone explain or link to an explanation of the Coleman porch thing? When the plot stopped progressing for 10 years I lost interest in CBT and don't know wtf is going on.

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>>54502533
Okay, I apologize for my bitchfit. I realize now that the tables did not paste correctly and were staggered and looked ugly. Please refer to RAW paste data to get it to format correctly.

https://pastebin.com/28FEcqjU

>>54503303

I think we need to add a pastebin for this, it comes up so often.

Short version: Loren Coleman is one of the CGL owners, and he had access to the company funds. He withdrew somewhere in the region of 850K from its finances that can't be accounted for and also had renovation work including a porch addition done at the same time.

He claimed to have accidentally mixed up company and personal money, and the head of the company was his best friend who issued a statement that it was unintentional but that's OK because it was forgiven any way so he didn't have to pay it back.

Several staff, mostly from Shadowrun because the BT guys are friends with Coleman, wound up quitting over it, including an accountant who freelanced for the SR writing team and investigated the books. She said she couldn't work for a company that wouldn't get rid of Coleman after what he'd done and Randall said "OK, bye."

CGL has, in a lot of ways, never recovered from this. The extra 850K would have let them hire better manufacturers for boxed sets and so on, woud have let them pay writers and artists on time and properly (assuming they weren't just FASA-level fuckups at that), keep Leviathans alive, and so on.

>>54502855
Why is this making me laugh non stop.

>>54503568
There was a statement made that steps were being taken to have Coleman repay this money. But no specifics were given (not surprising), and we have no way of knowing how much, if any, was actually repaid.

>>54503665

I never saw that, but given how frequently CGL has bitched about never having the money to so much as hire a professional editor for anything I seriously doubt he paid it back. Either in full, or any kind of substantial percentage.

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what ever is going on in this butt to begin with

>>54503604
Because all you would have to do is jump over them/kill one to make it to the other side.

>>54503568

That 850k would have been nice right now to pay for a lawyer instead of CGL rolling over and asking to get fucked.

>>54502855
>if one urbie makes it to the other side of the map it becomes an imp

>>54503704
It was in Randall's post he made after the news became well known and he responded on behalf of the company. It was pretty vague, which as I said is not surprising, because even if he meant it (and I imagine he did) he wouldn't be airing that kind of confidential business stuff in public. If I had to guess, I'd say the company has never seen it all returned. I wonder if Coleman is in hock to the company to this day, paying back things on a god-knows-how many-years plan.

>>54503992
>Coleman
>acknowledging that what he did was wrong
>ever
Anon, I want to believe too, but I know CGL too well. Coleman isn't paying back shit and Bills isn't asking him to because they're Mormon buddies or whatever and they just forgive each other when they steal thousands of dollars.

>>54503827
I've never seen a mech cost so many c-bills for such a low BV.

>>54504183
...That's a tank.

>>54504183

The filename is "tonk toot toot"

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>>54504183
>>54504208
I dunno why, but snppc's always make me think of foreskins.

>>54503451
I want to do missile stuff next. I have some cool ideas.

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Magistracy Shadow Hawk Guy here. Faffing around with another Bad Idea, namely turning the Thunderbolt into a Periphery Assault 'Mech. It's got great armor (for its size), but I looked around and wondered. The Magistracy makes Manticore tanks, so they've got access to PPCs and SRM-6s. I kinda went with the idea of a blend of the stock version and the Steiner model, and here's what popped up. A Manticore's main gun and SRM rack replace the Thud's big laser and 2-pack, while it manages to keep the triple mediums and LRMs. Heat dissipation improved a little, with two heat sinks added. It can run and throw the PPC and LRMs for neutral heat, or get a closer target for a pretty good mix of firepower. I had a half ton left over; thought about putting the last 3 points of armor on but decided some flair was in order, and put an extra machine-gun mount on the head. Something like how tank commanders get a gun by their hatch so they can sit around up there and watch. Have some backseater in the 'Mech be useful and shoot up things that are annoying, perhaps. It's more flavor than anything useful, but it's the Periphery.

I'm not sure how well it'd handle against a more maneuverable opponent; it outguns the Griffin at range, for example, and dramatically outguns the Wolverine up close, and has plenty more armor than both of those. It's not great, but it's probably okay for the 3SW era, especially out in the Periphery where real assault 'Mechs are rarer than good pop music. Jump Jets would be nice, but then I'd give up my heat sinks, and probably some armor as well. Maybe I should. Thoughts?

If I can find a good image of a machine gun that'd fit the angles properly, maybe I'll shop that recent Thunderbolt redraw into this version for shiggles.

>>54504462
it's basically half a stalker, then

>>54504462
Herpderp, forgot to mention. The engine's a 195; I fluff it mentally as a damaged 200-class engine that was mostly rebuilt and downrated slightly so it'd fit in the previous engine's place. Slowed the whole thing down, but the engine was cheap - 200s are everywhere in 3025, so "modifying" one slightly into a 195 rated design made sense to me. Again, it's just fluff.

>>54504478
>>54504478
Little more than half, PPC+LRM15 instead of LL+LRM10, and an extra ML, but pretty close yeah. It's the next best thing to nothing, but then again so is beating your enemy to death with a foot long frozen horse turd.

>>54504533
>; I fluff it mentally as a damaged 200-class engine that was mostly rebuilt and downrated slightly so it'd fit in the previous engine's place
wasn't that an actual rule from one of the early sourcebooks? like you could modify engines up or down by 5-10 points but got like 2 points of heat every turn?

>>54504627
Not one that I saw. Interesting idea though.

Anyone get the new TRO yet? I heard there's a few new art pieces, can you share with someone whose paycheck only comes in cash?

>>54504627
If you do it right you don't get any extra heat. That's how VEST made the Jackal engine.

>>54504646
Somebody already posted the foreword which was the most important thing. I ain't shelling out any cash if they didn't fix any of the 3039 fuckups.

Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the Harmony Gold situation? I know that decades ago some Japanese mech designs were used without permission but why is it such a big deal again? Was the issue never settled?

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done looked into old robot boxes. this ain't no joke

>>54504627
I think it was in the old solaris box set or possibly Unbound, and I don't think there was a heat penalty, actually

>>54504300
SNPPCs are the best thing to come out of the jihad.

>>54504781
Decades ago, mechs were used with correct permission. Then Playmates made a knock off madcat for their exosquad line which also included rebranded macross toys.

FASA sued them over the Madcat, then HG stepped in and countersued FASA over the Macross stuff since they had cut a merchandise deal with Playmates.

FASA made a settlement with HG at that time to remove the Unseen from Battletech rather than fight it out. HG has much more money muscle then and today since they're a real estate company first who just happens to have this other stuff on the side. Nobody knew about this since the records were sealed. All anyone knew was FASA pulled all the unseen in 1995.

Since then, HG has basically claimed they own all distribution, merchandise and image rights to Macross even though the actual owners of Macross in Japan have legally established in court that they only have redistribution rights for the original show.

In 2008 CGL got proper permission from all the actual Japanese owners to bring back all the Unseen, only to have the settlement pop up and slap them in the face despite it being based on rights HG doesn't have. So again they withdraw to keep from a costly legal fight.

This time around in 2016 CGL remade everything legally distinct but still very close to the originals.

HG decided to sue the two videogame companies basically as a rights grab and so they have a foot to stand on when the Japanese come for them when they try to make this big budget robotech movie.

CGL was subsequently brought in under an umbrella thing in the suit that HG listed as basically anyone that ever had to do with Macross mechs in America that wasn't them.

And this time, Coleman didn't even bother to show up to court so left the video game people to fend for themselves.

>>54504918
It was Solaris: The Reaches

>>54504762
I saw that one; I just wanted to see the three new art pieces.

>>54505102
>three new art pieces

What are they?

Shoutout to whoever got those TtS pdf's the other day. Kickass.

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>>54502533

Missile Update

https://pastebin.com/raw/spM3ZMQC

>>54505128
Flea (it is the MW4 one)
Galahad
Banshee

>>54505788
>Galahad
This is almost worth buying the book for alone.

>>54505788
Is it ACS's work like the Thud/Bmer?

>>54504300

you're weird, anon

>>54505945
>>54505827
I don't know, I'm waiting someone uploading it

I was the guy who download TtS expecting that someone would upload the TRO

>>54504918
>>54505072
>It was Solaris: The Reaches
Nope. You may be thinking of the 3026 'Mechbuster fluff.

Mr. Xotl, are you watching?
Does CGL plan to digitize old out-of-print source books and scenario packs?

I would be delighted if CGL sells the PDF version of "LosTech: The Mech Warrior Equipment Guide" or "More Tales of the Black Widow" at drivethrurpg or CGL store.

>>54506482

Heya. I can't give an official answer really, just what I think I know from seeing others post about it over time. The plans are there, but in a very low-priority, get-to-it-when-we-get-to-it sort of way. They were pretty active about it when CGL first started up, but it died off. I gather it was a time-intensive process, since without the digital files for most of the books it involved cutting up old ones and scanning them in, and the guy who did that is either gone or moved up and on to more important things.

Best post about it on the OF, for the most accurate info. Plus, actual signs of interest may help spark something.

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TFW Coleman is your favorite BattleTech writer, but as a businessman he's pond scum.

>>54506539
I understand the current state of PDF conversion. Thank you for answering.
Since it is rather troublesome to order out-of-print books with premier from Japan, I thought it would be convenient if PDF version was sold.

Although the case caused by HG will be serious, I hope that CGL will do its best. I am supporting as one of Japan's BattleTech fans.

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>>54506577

>>54506577

XIN SHENG XIN SHENG

Hey /btg/ I'm trying to put together a campaign for some friends of mine. they've never played Battletech before, so I'm trying to reduce the crunch as much as possible. My idea right now is to run in an AU of the FWL where they're mercs under the patronage of a Duke. Doing this would let me just give them jobs, with the assurance that they will get paid when the job is done. I'm also thinking about just giving them support personnel without having to hire them/pay them (this will be handled by the duke).

My biggest question is how should I go about reducing all the other crunch associated with a campaign? Specifically managing ammo, and repairs. These guys are used to being murder hobos, so I have no doubts that having to manage their supply lines will greatly aggravate them. Is there a way I can just magically top them up after every mission? Should I even do that?

>>54507759
Tech level would be DA if that matters at all.

>>54507759
Make it be Duke Humphreys of the Anduriens and have them as one of those subcontracted merc units used to buff a raid. Have it be the Defenders of Andurien hit Betelgeuse en force or something.

Grinding loot on Capellans in the 3rd War is ancient GM tradition.

Bonus, the DoA are big on combined arms so being able to have cheap forces available to reinforce the PC's mechs or need rescuing is a lot of fun.

>Warrior House Die Die Horribly's face when two lances of Pegasus hovercraft zip in

>>54507759

For my campaign I handwave anything that's standard armor or ammunition, unless there's specific plot need for a crunch there. It's specialty ammo and armors (like Ferro-Fibrous, or Thunder LRMs) that I make them keep track of. Players are generally more amenable if you make them keep track of "special" stuff.

>>54507891
>>54507939

Well, fuck. That's no fun. Only people the Mariks are really fighting in the DA are the RotS, the Wolves, and themselves. All the dukes/duchesses in those operations also die horribly or marry old hags by 3150. I say dukes cause Lester is a Prince and best boy.

Oh, have them get contracted under the Regulans and have to fight those Oriente fucks and their pet clanner scum.

>>54500613
If anyone cares, the OF thread's open again.

>>54507759
>>54507891
Ok, first, maybe don't be in the Dark Ages. This isn't a "the DA is bad" post but a complexity one. The DA has a TON of high-tech shit running around on battlefields, with ewar fucking everywhere. If you want to reduce the crunch, set it during the Clan Invasion and place it in the Periphery as hired guns working for a Periphery state like the Taurians or the Canopians to go police their backwoods of pirates and bandits and shit. That will give you a reason to keep the tech low and the crunch simple. Since it's an AU, you can have the Clans send out a deep-strike force to that side of the sphere once the PCs have the game under control and are ready for the bigger challenge.

I do agree with making them a hired force under some force that handles the logistics for them. Maybe put them on a planet with a strong army presence, but the army is all tied up with orders to defend locations and can't go after bandits/deserters/pirates in the outlying areas of the colony? The PCs can return to base for ammo and repairs anytime they want, but when they're in the bush, they're on their own. Make 'em track repairs/ammo when on the hunt but at first they just are taking care of stuff nearby the base and always return for repairs/ammo at the end of missions. Later on, as you ramp up, they go deeper and deeper afield, forcing them to bring supplies with (conventional vehicle support units maybe?) or to go without for awhile. Make an entire plot point about it: the further they go after these pirates or whoever, the more work they have to do to keep in fighting trim.

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>>54508021

I don't, but thanks, I guess?

>>54507939
>>54508003
>>54508062
It's going to be super AU, with absolutely no clans, and vastly different politics. I might even just create my own setting and use battletechs system in it. These guys have no appreciation for lore of any sort and I don't want to limit their mechs by what they can salvage.

I just want for there to be some level of actual choice when it comes to customization when it comes to tech level. Game play crunch won't be too bad. We'll be using megamek for that since we all live in different states.

>>54508141
Ok, you're deep enough into the weeds for me to be unable to assist you. MegaMek will handle all the crunch for you and you can just have their employer handle the bookkeeping. Not sure what else you need really.

>>54508249
Well the idea of only topping up their ammo and repairs when they head back to base is pretty good. As is the idea about only tracking their specialty ammo. Do you have any suggestions about how to construct their lance? Should I start them out with all mediums?

>>54508314
Starting out with mediums, lights, or heavy vees for fire support is good fun for hunting pirates.

>>54508314
Construct a lance that is made of generalists. Don't give them a focused lance, that'll push them into doing only one thing (e.x. don't give them all bugs or all archers or something). Do something like a 55-ton trio lance with a Thunderbolt in there for kicks. That'd be nice and solid as a starting lance of good mechs that can dunk on pirates with little issue.

Remember that the OpFor should have pre-damaged stuff and really shitty stuff, like "no turret Rommel" or "one-armed Commando" level of bad. Keeping their OpFor shitty will keep their mechs in working order well.

>>54508382
Is there a general BV guideline to take into account when designing OpFor's? like 30% less or so?

>>54508435
Depends on what you want to happen? Like, do you want it to be a pubstomp for the PCs? Do like 50% BV in OpFor. Do you want it to be easy but not a cakewalk? 75% BV. Tough but fair? 100% BV Uphill battle but winnable? 125% BV Fucking impossible fuck you for even trying? 150%+ BV

It also depends on what you take *with* that BV, relative to what the PCs have. If you take all armor bricks that are slow but tough, a 55-ton trio lance will have trouble burning through their armor fast enough to win without casualties. This is much more art than science here. Generally, edge on the low end of things until you have a good feel for the PCs tactical acumen and their lance's capabilities.

>>54508435

Well, if my GM is anything to go by, they fucking ALWAYS have a longbow

>>54508435

I generally do either percentages, or at least 1k BV below my players. Enough so I'm at a disadvantage and I'm kept on my toes (just because I might be better at an even fight doesn't mean I can't push myself in these battles), but also enough that it's not a cakewalk for my players.

>>54507759
Duke of Thermopolis could be fun. Pre-Wolves, it's a contentious part of the Lyran border and has its own 'Mech factory.

For simple repairs, my suggestion is:
-Any 'Mech which retreats off the map before the end of the final turn gets 100% repairs for free.
-Any 'Mech which is shut down or voluntarily powered down at the end of the match gets 50% repairs for free.
-Any 'Mechs still on the board and powered up at the end of the match can only be repaired from their stock of salvage.

>>54507891
That complicates things a little. For simplicity's sake, assume they can barter one ton of special armor for one ton of any other kind of special armor, one ton of special LRMs for one ton of any other kind of special LRMs, and so on. If a particular kind of equipment seems overpowered you can make them roll to see if it's actually available.

>>54508377
>lights
If they lose their 'Mech, and don't salvage a replacement in that same battle, maybe give them a low-end light in the following match, and then have a proper replacement arrive from their employer the match after that.

>>54507759
If you haven't seen it, the Chaos Campaign rules are pretty low key, especially if they're a company or under. Much less effort than accountantech. You can just take scenarios from any of the books and refluff them. From that I'd show which ever murder hobo is most inclined to math nerding and show them how to do it, make them the logistics officer.

If you want to go really fast and lose, I'd have each mission be on a scale of major victory, minor victory, minor loss, major loss. Major victory is worth 2 points they can bank, minor victory is worth 1, losses are -1. Points are a mix of salvage, prestige, supply and other logistical concerns. Repairing and rearming a lance costs 1 point up to being half crippled, 2 if its over half. A new mech costs 1 if there's enough of it to salvage, 2 if its new. Start them with 2 points. Its not pretty but it basically works.

Let's get this thread humming along.

Post Nova Cat pics.

Mechs, characters, paint schemes, wallpapers, etc.

What's your favorite Nova Cat mech?

Do you think the Clan will be reborn or will they remain Spirit Cats?

>>54511404

>What's your favorite Nova Cat mech?

The Nova Cat.

>Do you think the Clan will be reborn or will they remain Spirit Cats?

Please keep them dead. So tired of "wiped out to the last, lol" followed five seconds later by "ACKSHUALLY, this small group survived, has inherited their legacy, and has rebuilt them" in BT.

>>54511404
Always been fond of the Sphinx personally. And the Morrigan is just too cool(name and idea wise...though it could do with better looks) to not like.

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>>54511404
>Do you think the Clan will be reborn or will they remain Spirit Cats?
I think they'll be stuck as spirit cats as additional flavor to the Sharks/FWL's clan protectorate. or possibly rolled together with the Fidelus/Smoke Jag remnants as the RotS's clanner faction.

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>>54511404
Who was that guy obsessed with Ian Davion that got his ass kicked by Alexi Holt? Him and his dead boss were pretty cool guys. Santin West was basically a Regulan in a Clanner manletmental body so he was interesting.

Never really much cared for any of the rest of them.

Nova Cat is a pretty cool mech. I like the Supernova too.

Fuck them for tearing apart the Lexatech LAM island supercomplex though.

>>54511464
>Clanner scum already own two thirds of the planet Marik and have been setting up shop for nearly twenty years

Disgusting.

>>54511509

>tfw you think the cats slagging the LexaTech plant is like the one (1) good thing they ever did

>>54511915
>people that worship the Star League destroying apex Star League technology because it didn't happen to fit their military rather than mothballing it

Never made any damn sense, honestly.

>>54511915
>tfw when you forget about the Cats siding with the SLDF for Operation Bulldog.

>>54512010
See this man here? This man understands the one good thing they did.

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>>54511404
Really like the Sphinx.

Hoping they don't get reborn though. They had a good run. Time line isn't going to advance ever again so there's that too.

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>>54512206
>Time line isn't going to advance ever again so there's that too.

It literally just did like yesterday.

>>54512284
Neat. I'm still suspicious I'll be dead before ilkhan comes out, but damn if that wasn't a faint glimmer of hope I just felt.

Anyone here got a Black Knight BL6? I'm considering making the BL9 variant with the hatchet using a Space Marine's power axe. Are the hands of a comparable size to do a straight hand swap, or would I need to do some cutting and drilling to fit it on the mech's hand?

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>>54512584
The dude from the Sword and Dragon pack has a custom machine that has the same external appearance as the clanbuster. I think it only comes in the lance pack though.

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>>54511404
All I have to offer.

>>54512007
you mean
>people who worship their unique twisted version of the Star League destroying Star League tech because it doesn't fit into their revisionist history.

Its like ISIS destroying anything that they don't agree with.

>>54512769
And yet the Falcons kept the twin fortresses of Apollo.

>>54512284
I can feel the butthurt eminating from Clanners over the 2nd Star League forces beating the snot out of them, I mean it's 200 years after and they are still fuming over about it.

>>54512885
What I can't fathom is how they actually won. How did clanners actually pull together enough troops not just to conquer the Inner Sphere but to occupy it too?

Probably something to do with 3rd Gen Battlemechs that make the current set look like primitives, but I still don't see occupation happening without some kind of giant homeworld nofunallowed fleet of warships. And even that can't make you keep the peace on two thousand worlds.

>>54512946
You seem to be under the illusions that
A):battletech writers understand scale at all
B):Insurgency happens/matters at any time when it doesn't fuck over factions the writers hate/boost the current Genocidal Face faction

So, with all the Harmony Gold bullshit coming back to haunt us, my guess is that the new BattleTech game is going to be in development limbo/hell?

Figures; just when I was getting hyped up for release...

>>54513055
Doubtful. HBS artwork looks NOTHING like what HG is saying it looks like. This has been going on for months and hasn't stopped shit as far as HBS is concerned.

>>54513016
It's ironic that Stone did the most counter-insurgency stuff and was also the cruelest mofo around for doing so.

"Wow, the robes really did fix up Caph. Look at the trees and dinosaurs. Don't like the Republic, eh? Hope you like living in a little plastic dome under a sulfur sky."

"You, xenophobic dome people. Don't like all the new arrivals? That's okay. They hate being here as much as you hate them being here. But saying mean things about the Republic, can't have that. Off to the killer biological atmosphere of Markab with you. I'm sure you'll love all the sun and WIDE OPEN SPACES."

>>54512007

Granted it would have made more sense to retrofit the plant, but I have literally never had a good experience with LAMs and that coincided with FASA salting the fields as far as their use and existence went.

>>54512010

Nah, that was fuckin' retarded.

>we sldf now :0)
>oh shit the other clans hate us for being traitors
>fuck oh fuck they're killing us and taking out shit
>eeryone run to the inner sphere
>wait dammit the inner sphere hates us
>well let's go piss off da burrs, what could possibly go wrong

>>54513108

You underestimate how petty HG can be. They pulled the same shit back in '09 with IGN's trailer of Mechwarrior 5.

What makes you think that this time it'll be different?

>>54512946
Who syays they have? We have very little info. I can easily see any Clan, but especially the Falcons, taking Terra and immediately proclaiming a new Star League even if it doesn't encompass the whole IS.

>>54513142
I doubt they even care to include the IS as a whole; the original Star League didn't, so why should this one? The Houses each made their own armies from combined SLDF machines and their own in-house productions, and warred and prodded each other with no permission anyway. So why operate on a different wavelength now? Plus, the Clans are hardwired into the "exclusive club" mentality. It's only natural to extend that to their version of the Star League.

>>54513130
Because HBS doesn't have a warhammer in any of its art?

>>54513186

I think the argument for going after HBS is that they are benefitting by using the art assets of MWO even if none of the designs they intended to feature are from RT/Macross, and also that Weisman being involved in any capacity with stuff that links back to things that look like the old Unseen (let's be honest, they do to the layman whether the legal definition is different or not) puts him in breach of the confidential settlement and fucks over everyone involved.

HG knows they can wave their dicks around consequence-free unless Topps or MS want to get involved, and neither have shown any willingness to do so. CGL folded like a cheap suit and accepted a ruling in default that they were fully in breach, after all.

>>54513184
>Cockfalcons take Terra
>Declare themselves ilClan
>Pick up all their shit Wolf-style and set up Clanner Central in Prefecture X
>Throw up the Wall so nobody can crash their party
>Declare a new Star League and circlejerk for a hundred years while sending raiders through the wall and expanding the coverage, one conquered system at a time
>by 3250 they're about at the old borders of the Terran Hegemony

I would be 100% okay with this.

>>54513220

Lacking an edit function, it appears some of the 'Mechs named in the suit for MWO imagery were going to be used in the HBS game that Jordan was a part of, which puts them well within the remit of going after him for not honouring his prior agreement by using infringing designs for stuff he's involved with.

This all just seems like an incredible shitshow. PP images should have just been retconned, something that gets more clear every time HG goes after BT owners.

>>54513220
>CGL folded like a cheap suit and accepted a ruling in default that they were fully in breach, after all.
Honestly Coleman is an utter crook but HG are vastly bigger crooks, so I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they engaged in some fuckery with the summons for this one

>>54513328
Apparently, that king of thing can be overturned as long as SOME kind of legal representation for CGL shows up ASAP.

>>54513328
>kevvy S signs their papers as """" Loren Coleman """"
Wouldn't put it past them, honestly

>>54513328

He didn't have to appear, he just had to retain counsel. CGL comprehensively failed to respond to the suit, which is why the judge did the legal equivalent of "fuck it, you can't even be bothered to show up to the game, you lose."

He's also friends with other parties named in the suit and involved on at least some level even if it's just close observer with the HBS stuff so there's no way he could have been blindsided and missed the whole thing.

My personal read is that CGL basically knew they were pushing the envelope on what they could do on the theory that "legally just different enough" would protect them from HG's wrath, but that if they were ever directly challenged they wouldn't have the cash to fight it out in court. Though that is just what some rando on the series of tubes is saying, so take it with some salt. Still fits with what I know about CGL' practices in other areas which amount to "fuck people around as much as possible for the lols/to save money, and only do what you should be doing if you get forced to" however.

Honestly the thing I hate the most about this lawsuit is that I can't pick a side. Both are fucktards of the highest order and I want them to lose. OTOH, if this is the last Jenga piece for CGL, I doubt BT is gonna survive it.

>>54513296
>PP images should have just been retconned
No way. I at least got some decent Dougram mechs again out of all this.

>>54513402
I could believe this is a retarded play on CGL's part to try to get Topps to do it for them, tbqh

>>54513409

The PP art could have been better, and a re-Plogging or FD METAL BAWKSES could have fixed the major issues. Those, rather than the Unseen images, should have been re-imagined and re-worked if they were going to do anything.

But really we're in this situation because they keep trying to show the Unseen even though every time they try they get slapped. I've seen brain-damaged rats learn faster about this sort of shit, companies have literally no excuse especially after the Art and Fiction debacle.

>>54513402
Perhaps what Ben Rome said on Facebook is true. You can't game life. And I don't think CATALYST will survive much longer unless they get money from that D&D thing they're doing. Does the license go back to Topps?

>>54513438

If I were Topps, this would be my response to CGL:

https://youtu.be/85V1Xewv20k?t=8

The company's a turducken of stupid and has been for most of the time I've been playing the game.

>>54513469
Most assuredly, though I suspect that IF topps DID go in on this, it would be purely on the concept of "well, if we DO win this, whichever non-retards we hand this to next would make a lot more money if they have those iconic designs handy"

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>>54513451
>a re-Plogging

That was TRO:3085. Also, HG don't give a shit. They'd still do it anyway. Remember the FD PP Warhammer 9S from the cover of Masters and Minions? It's basically identical to the MW5 Warhammer which was obviously based on the PP and that got C&D'd.

>>54513466
Yup. Topps can (typically) retract it at anytime, of course, but if CGL ceases to exist as a corporate entity then their licensing and contracts revert back to the proper owner. Literally, they're just borrowing the IP and promising not to damage it.

...Oopsie.

>>54513563
Though, Topps still has incentive to fight this particular suit considering how far HG is going with the "every giant robot that isn't us is infringement" thing

>>54513598

IDK about that. Some of the HBS images they're complaining about don't look anything like what they say they do but that could be legal bargaining- OK, we'll let go of them if you admit your Warhammer looks like our Tomahawk, sort of thing.

They also haven't had a run at Michael Bay or GDT.

HG are a bunch of colossal shitlords and IP squatters but the majority of what they're saying does appear to the lay person to be correct. Stuff like the Phoenix Hawk, Archer, and Warhammer (some of which are slated to appear in the HBS game) are just way too close to the Macross/RoboTech designs they're based on, especially since this will be handled by a jury rather than splitting legal hairs over how many minute points of difference there might be.

>>54513108
If the Beta any indication, there may not include Reseen in official release later.

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>>54513402
>Honestly the thing I hate the most about this lawsuit is that I can't pick a side. Both are fucktards of the highest order and I want them to lose.

>Not knowing the best scenario.
>CGL forced to pay up by HG, has to file for bankruptcy to cover the expenses.
>HG forced to pay up twice the amount to HBS and PGI.
>Funnel the CGL's portion of their fortune to the HBS, go bankrupt over the PGI portion.
>No more CGL, no more HG, Macross is free to actually start selling shit in Eastern and South Eastern Asia (let's not kid ourselves, they won't just bring it over here just like that), HBS is unharmed, PGI receives their due in making this happen, SRW finally allowed to ship their games to the west with English subtitles (know why SRW 5 is the first one to have an official translation? They tried to break into the market in 2000, but all their previous games have Macross in them, HG sued).

>>54515361
Yeeeaah, it's never happening. It isn't possible to "bring down" HG through this stupid suit. They're professional marauders in a system built to benefit professional marauders, by professional marauders. As long as it's an IP case in an American court of law, the side with better connections in the legal circles is winner by default. And guess who that is.

Can someone post up the new BattleMECH manual for us poor people?

>>54512010
I like the Cats but I recognize that siding with the SLDF was a mistake.

Could the entire Snow Raven fleet at its peak defeat a single Leviathan II?

>>54517753
>Sacrifice a few ships to demonstrate elsewhere and lure it away
>coordinated strikes to destroy Da Bears infrastructure needed to maintain it
>now bears too afraid to commit it for a long time

Short answer is yes.

>>54517753
>wait till it's on drydock
>blow it the fuck up, along with the shipyard
Really makes you wonder why the WoB didn't do it while the battleship conversion was underway

>>54518469
They had other stuff going on, like not fucking dying in droves to the Coalition.

>>54518505
would have been a smart move during their opening wave of surprise attacks, though

>>54513296
>PP images should have just been retconned, something that gets more clear every time HG goes after BT owners.
HG is pretending that an Atlas breaches their claim to all Crusader-like imagery. This shit-show was going to happen no matter *what* imagery they used.

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let's get some quad appreciation up in here.

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>>54520718
I love the unseen Goliath and Scorpion.

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>>54520886

>>54517753
Certainly. The Ravens would overwhelm the Leviathan with superior ASF numbers, and then a constant stream of marine - and even mech - insertions once the Lev's own ASF escort is reamed. Further consternation for the Lev would be that while its ASF bays carry 150 fighters each, they only have 4 doors each, ruining deployment and rearm capability and essentially rendering the fleet incapable of sustaining a war of attrition. Furthermore, it has a complement of "only" 250 battle armor or marine infantry. And once the insertion operations complete the objective of destroying sufficient numbers of the 30 AMS systems, there will be nuclear missiles.

Now that I think of it, considering how mech-centric the carry capacity of most "ordinary" warships in the Raven Touman is, the battle would probably look rather goofy as the waves of mechs slowly plummeting at the Lev would rival the missile salvoes in count.

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>>54520718
Badger badger badger badger~

Civil War
Iron Guard
vs.
Reserve Cluster 405

Download your ticket today!
https://mega.nz/#!pQEjSZLS!IkMLkQCK362uQ1nv279AojMbjCQVTGu_NU8FQFQTVXQ

>>54520886
Ah yeah, Scorpion's my fav mech in Battletech (despite it's numerous issues).

>the battle would probably look rather goofy as the waves of mechs slowly plummeting at the Lev would rival the missile salvoes in count.

Scrubs never heard of the Daedalus Manuever

>>54521455
I am 12 and what is this?

>>54521611
Its a Battalion vs. a Reserve Cluster

>>54521455
its for MekHQ

>>54521311
Not as maneuverable as I would like, but that thing would be a bitch to take down.

What's an A. E. S.?

>>54520886
What is that from some anime?

>>54521455
That House Marik's Iron Guard?

>>54521789
Actuator enhancement system. -1 to PSRs and melee rolls, I think it was.

>>54521836
Fang of the Sun Dougram, where we get the Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Scorpion, Goliath, Wolverine, Thunderbolt and Battlemaster mechs.

>>54521857
Now that is interesting. Makes mechs more like labors from Patlabor a bit. Thanks.

>>54521897
I'm sure this is common knowledge, but really? Some mechs are from anime? Are there any from Gundam Wing or Mobile Suit Gundam?

>>54521897
>>54521857
Sorry, it was -1 to melee attacks and actually -2 to PSRs. So the Badger's in all green despite the hardened armor. Good luck knocking that bugger down.

>>54521929
None are from Gundam, AFAIK.
Locust is from Crusher Joe and then there's the Macross ones (the one's Harmony Gold is so pissy about)

>>54521189
This begs the question, just how fast and nimble are specialized space variants of 'mechs - like the Shadow Hawk IIC-7 - in zero gravity? How do they handle rules-wise? How do they measure up to ASFs?

Also, does anyone have a record sheet for the mentioned Shad IIC around? Couldn't find one, but I'm interested.

>>54521929
What he >>54522076 said, and in an old scenario book Spider and the Wolf there is one mech from Southern Cross and another from Genesis Climber MOSPEADA.

>>54521961
Can you have AES for just one arm?

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>>54522371
>How do they measure up to ASFs?

I'm amazed no one has bothered to improve the Schrek. It's one of the most potent direct fire support vehicles, but it's been greatly crippled by a paltry amount of armor, something the Armor variant quarter-attempts to rectify.

Are they really uncommon enough to not justify a Light or XL engine swap for more protection? The lore on them said they were often cannibalized for fusion engines and working PPCs during the SWs. Could even make a LPL version for "precision".

>>54522701
The real deal is that after the Helm Core was found, building new fire support 'mechs makes more sense than sticking PPCs into a less mobile vehicle.

>>54522701
3/5 is too slow to really wanna be using LPLs.

>>54522371
The record sheet for 3055 Shad IIC isn't in the OP's folders?

>>54522752
A 'mech has uses, yes, but even vehicles are useful after the Helm Core. Remember that even the standing armies of the IS still use vehicles overwhelmingly in their standing armies. Even after the technology to manufacture new ones is reintroduced, a vehicle is still cheaper and easier to build, and requires a lot less training to pilot competently.

>>54522769
Fair point. It was one of those off-the-cuff ideas.

>>54522701
Schrek is dreck.

>>54522840
Why is that, chum?

>>54522835
>A 'mech has uses, yes, but even vehicles are useful after the Helm Core. Remember that even the standing armies of the IS still use vehicles overwhelmingly in their standing armies. Even after the technology to manufacture new ones is reintroduced, a vehicle is still cheaper and easier to build, and requires a lot less training to pilot competently.

Someone made their own version of the Schrek months ago. Two PPCs were replaces with LB-10X with a lot of ammo and armor. That's as far as I know. The stats might be on the booru but I don't think it's tagged yet.

Hey /Btg/ question here.
I'm running a mmHQ campaign with some friends and I've been wondering if theres a way to build custom scenario's and win-conditions, the program must be generating them somehow...right?

>>54522835
Yeah vehicles are still used, but fusion engines are still better used in 'Mechs over vehicles.

>>54511464
God that might be my favorite mwo mech design, the huntsman looks a million times better than it's original look

>>54520437

They're doing that the way a seller would name a high price to start negotiations. What they're really after is the Unseen and they can look magnanimous by agreeing to "only" accept a lesser price later on. This is a standard technique for any civil suit.

>>54522371

'Mechs in space are terrible. Don't even bother, just use ASFs.

>>54523524

Like I said, HG is petty as fuck. Fucking MWO Atlas doesn't even LOOK like what they're claiming!

>>54522502

>Can you have AES for just one arm?

Yes. Stacy Church's Zeus-X does it for the H-PPC arm, IIRC, and there are other examples.

>>54517753

Yes, but the Lev would take down at least some of the Raven fleet in return, especially if it slings nukes.

The Ravens in the Dark Age would have to commit and be willing to lose most of their fleet to take one out though. And it would probably HPG the Lev III for help during the fight which means a dead Raven fleet and laughingbears.jpeg as the final result.

>>54523721

So? It's not being petty, it's a standard negotiating tactic. Both generally in sales terms and in legal battles.

What they're actually interested in can be summed up as "Stop fucking using images that infringe on our IP like you promised to do in that course case like twenty years ago and which we've still had to send a C&D over since, dumbasses" and maybe some damages if they can get them. Which, notice, CGL has entirely capitulated to because they know they're fucked and can't defend against the suit. They haven't had to go after MWO or PGI yet.

Like I say, you reach as far as you think you can for your opening move. If you're repping a client who was in a car crash, you go for a payout of 100K to start when you know what you're going to get is closer to 75K, the opposition lowballs for 50, eventually you meet somewhere in the middle.

The middle, in this example, is "yeah, these images are too close to the HG-owned originals."

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>>54522875

I'm not whoever did that, but here's my idea for a Schrek. Get your armour as close to max as possible, and use ballistics and missiles instead of energy weapons because a tank has to sink 100% of its firepower, so 30 heatsinks makes PPCs just weigh too fucking much.

>>54523832

Except that HG doesn't own shit. They have a license for distribution. Nothing else.

The only problem is that CGL is so fucking flat broke they can't fight in court and so lose by default and we the players get fucked.

>>54524000

TBolts aren't that great, I'd go MMLs and some MRM 30s or 40s if you want to scare the fuck out of some 'mechs.

>>54524047
Thunderbolts (both the missiles and the mechs) are fucking rad as hell and you need to shut your whore mouth.

>>54524060

The 'mechs are great. The weapons being solidly BTFO'd by AMS makes them poor.

I still think it sucks, they rocked in MW3 when they were immune to AMS because of their size. But in tabletop, they're just lackluster.

>>54524047

I like the headcap potential, and poking giant FUCKOFF big holes in things. AMS isn't common enough for me to care about the one drawback of the Thunderbolt missile. I wanted the TBolt 20, but didn't have the tonnage for it, and the whole point of my rebuild was to actually get the tank the armour to be a fucking tank instead of a cardboard box with PPCs.

>>54524047

out
out with you
begone, fool

>>54524028
>Except that HG doesn't own shit. They have a license for distribution. Nothing else.

This may be your opinion and might even be correct. However, HG has a court ruling that says otherwise and Jordan Weisman agreed that he and anyone else dealing with BT IP would be bound by that ruling in perpetuity.

ATM HBS/PGI's best defence is basically "well, you knew about these images for five years and did nothing, why start now?" because it is *highly* unlikely that HG will allow legal decisions made in another country to be introduced to the court or that the judge will find them more compelling than Weisman saying "Yes, I agree that HG owns all this shit and I promise never to ever do that again."

>>54522701
>I'm amazed no one has bothered to improve the Schrek.
Does the Alacorn count?

>>54524260
Do we know *why* Weisman said that shit? Like, he knew that was gonna come back to bite him in the ass one day, right?

>>54524286
They made him agree to it in order not to be sued into the ground forever.
Also FASA REALLY was not into planning for the future

>>54523524
>they can look magnanimous by agreeing to "only" accept a lesser price later on. This is a standard technique for any civil suit.
Sure, but that doesn't mean they're after the unseen. What they're really after is expanding their copyright beyond its original bounds, and pushing their competition out of the market. They'd be trying the same thing with a PP retcon too.

>>54524417
>copyright
"Copyright" isn't the right word, but you know what I mean.

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>>54524286

What >>54524342 said. In that agreement he also said that anyone who held the BT IP would be bound by it forever, which is what fucked CGL over with the Art and Fiction book and why they seem to have noped the fuck out of this case- the designs are too close and they know they were relying on HG's benign neglect, which has ended.

HBS/PGI might have been able to claim they didn't know about the agreement since they weren't party to it... except that Weisman has been involved with both, and he definitely knew.

I think HG are a bunch of dicks, but as far as this case goes, what they're saying, allowing for things like the Atlas looking like their whatever being standard tactics to strong-arm the other side a bit, is pretty much spot on.

Everyone connected with BT IP needs to stop going "Oh, they're just known for being an overly litigious company, what could possibly go wrong if we use designs that look very, very similar to theirs to the point that pic related is the only defence" because HG *will* bring the thunder in court and you need to be an extremely rich company to have the defence team needed to beat them.

>>54524417

>They'd be trying the same thing with a PP retcon too.

They didn't, though. They gave no shits about the PP images because they legitimately were different enough, which is precisely what got the grogs grabbing their torches and pitchforks in the first place.

The Reseen and original 25 Years of Art and Fiction stuff were just too close. HG C&D'd the latter and allowed the former to go on just long enough that they could hang CGL enough rope to hang themselves, and CGL being CGL did just that.

The computer game side is the only one with a leg to stand on and their best argument is "But why come after us now, huh?"

If either side had more than a single brain cell the smart thing do do would be what happened with Chaos League and Blood Bowl all those years ago.

HG are too petty and HBS/PGI too small or incompetent for that though.

>>54524342
So basically, HG threw more money worth of lawyers at them then they could handle and they folded, figuring it would be someone else's problem in the future.

Fucking bastard. Stand and fight, it's the only way to beat shit like this. HG will just do it again and again until you beat them at this game. PGI and HBS at least have some money and might be able to take HG to task (how much cash could HG possibly have, they don't sell anything anymore, just sit on rights).

>>54524561
>They gave no shits about the PP images
Are you an actual IP lawyer? Because, to my plebeian normie eyes, it looks like the inciting incident here is the creation of the video game content, with CGL as collateral damage.

>>54524698

If they had the legal mojo to make him sign an agreement like that, they most likely had the legal mojo to take FASA by force and/or levy such heavy fines that Weisman would lose everything any way.

Lack of foresight and never learning from the past have always been an issue for the BT rights holders/owners but I can't say I blame Weisman for folding at the time. The really dumb thing is that they continued to provoke HG in the years since even though CGL's not as successful as FASA, couldn't/wouldn't hire high-calibre lawyers, and have the giant millstone around their neck of the original settlement.

>>54524819
How does Topps not get involved here? They are licensing BT to CGL, why don't they take up the charge here? No way HG could take down Topps in court, so why doesn't Topps go crush them and tell them to fuck right off?

>>54524850
Cost benefit analysis. CGL's holding of the BT license may not be making them enough profit that it's worth spending the dosh on a legal team to bail them out of this.

They may just be waiting for CGL to go under and give the license to someone else. Or let it die.

>>54524872
If so (and that sounds believable honestly), why doesn't Topps just take it and tell CGL to fuck off? Companies don't usually work by laziness, if Topps wants the license back they can just take it and tell CGL to get lost. Like, what is Topps doing here? Either they have a vested interest in CGL not dying, in which case they would take up the defense, or they don't, in which case they should take their IP back and let CGL flounder and die. Just letting CGL dick around doesn't make much sense.

>>54524794

CGL was doing Reseen images for the SW era, anon. HG has done precisely jack and shit about PP for over a decade and only got involved when Randall smugly told everyone he had the rights sorted and they could show the old images/images very close to the old images (I forget which)in 25 Years of Art and Fiction, which HG slapped down. I believe they did sort out stuff like the BattleMaster at that time though.

Then they decided to do the Reseen recently with their SW and Combat Manual work, with designs hewing much closer to the originals, and HG stomped their shit hard.

The Phoenix versions were different enough to pass scrutiny, be it of the plebian variety or in court. The new ones were relying on "technically correct, the best kind of correct" arguments about points of difference that would only ever be settled in court in the hopes that HG wouldn't push things to that point. But hoping that HG won't go to court is fucking retarded, it's like their entire reason for existing.

As I said via Red Foreman earlier, "The reason bad things happen to you is that you're a dumbass."

They know about the existing settlement and that HG has the full weight of the law on their side, but they keep fucking around with them any way expecting this time to go differently. HBS/PGI other than Jordan I can buy being legitimately ignorant, but "I didn't know" rarely holds up as an argument in court.

Is this game "Your Dudes"-friendly? I see it's already got a lot of fluff and lore behind just about every minute detail of the setting, but are there enough blank spaces in the galaxy to homebrew an original battalion?

>>54524794
Hey, >>54524794 (and >>54520437) here again. Just wanted to clarify something:

>>54524561
>because they legitimately were different enough
Again, as a plebiean normie (albeit one who's read the old lawsuit files on the web), I think you and I disagree about where the agreement between HG and JW draws that line.

>>54524939

Nobody else who wants the BT rights has the money to outbid CGL. Nobody else who has the money wants the rights.

Topps pretty much just sees the BT rights as free money. They aren't using the rights and don't intend to, so they might as well let some other schmuck give them some cash for them in the meantime.

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>>54525024

See pic.

Nobody can seriously argue that the two actually look alike beyond being bipedal combat robots, which is not a viable argument. The rest of the Phoenix redesigns were likewise different enough from the originals.

HG didn't even bother to make the argument.

If you are still banging on about the Atlas shit, I refer you to my earlier statement. That is not an argument HG expects to win, it's something they're throwing in there so they have room to negotiate down to what they actually want.

>>54525030
This is probably depressingly true. I feel like we as a community should come together, pool a bunch of money towards it, and buy the rights from Topps so we can do it ourselves. We can't be any worse than CGL (because that is literally impossible).

>>54524988
>only got involved when Randall smugly told everyone he had the rights sorted and they could show the old images
I recall it being the original images, not new designs.

>I believe they did sort out stuff like the BattleMaster at that time though.
I'd take that with a grain of salt. I've never heard anyone make that claim who didn't sound like they were just assuming CGL would get their ducks in a row.

>Then they decided to do the Reseen recently with their SW and Combat Manual work, with designs hewing much closer to the originals, and HG stomped their shit hard.
Anyone have a timeline of when the Nuseen art started appearing, and when CGL seems to have gotten the C&D for it?

>>54525148
>If you are still banging on about the Atlas shit
No, only my first post was about that. The other guy is the one banging on about how HG are wankers.

>>54525269
I mean, am I wrong about HG being wankers? They are, that's a certifiable fact. I'm mostly just still wondering what Topps's role in all this is/should be.

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>>54525013
Yeah, a lot of listed units are just names and you could always make your own merc unit.

>>54525178

For the BLR, as far as I know they've never had any trouble with the Dougram stuff and just pre-emptively removed them along with the Unseen and VMI designs so they knew everything was in-house going forwards. Expecting basic competency from CGL has been a frustrating experience in the past but at least on that I'd like to imagine they got their shit together.

For the Nuseen, the case was filed in March. We started getting in 2015 but HG may have been waiting until they could show a pattern of CGL not adhering to the agreement- IMO the Warhammer in CM:M is too close to the original and then they followed up with the Wasp and Phoenix Hawk in CM:K with more to come.

There may not have been a formal C&D there, or even with the 25 Years of Art and Fiction shitshow, that might have just been a letter from HG to CGL saying "stop doing that" which had the same effect but wasn't, legally speaking, an actual C&D.

>>54525269
>>54525302

Oh, they're definitely wankers. But "your honour, the plaintiffs are doodieheads" won't help them now. The law is on HG's side.

Topps' role in this is the same as MicroSoft. HG doesn't want to wake the sleeping dragons, and also can't really have a go at them any way because they didn't do anything that might be infringing, HBS and PGI did.

Unless Topps was named directly, Topps is only going to go "Kek. You bought this on yourselves" and watch from the sidelines, possibly with popcorn. MS, ditto.

People asking for/hoping that that parent companies get involved might as well be believing in Santa Claus. It doesn't work like that.

In theory MS or Topps could decide to be nice and shell out for a defence, but why? They're not being targeted themselves, and the money they make from the deal would be significantly cut into if they did that, if not gobbled up entirely and cost them more on top. There's no benefit to them even if they win because someone else is using the rights, and HBS/PGI's relationship with the computer game rights is the same as the BT rights with Topps. No-one else who wants them can afford them, no-one else who can afford them wants them.

Reminder that HG is first and foremost a real estate company. That means they have the money to burn in court. Robotech is literally a side project for them to trot out every once in a while to make some extra embezzlement cash.

>>54525394
So there's gaps between the 25 Years of Art and Fiction (which would've been 100% direct copies), the MechWarrior:3015 trailer (a videogame thing) and the present video-game incited lawsuit? That's not grounds to infer the reseen would've been any safer.

Pity CGL didn't roll out the nuseen early enough for PGI and HBS to adopt them *after* HG's window for action had elapsed.

>>54525506
>The law is on HG's side.
You keep saying that, and every time you do, I'm going to feel obliged to disagree.

>>54525720
Mechwarrior 3015 was a reseen Warhammer and it's the one that stirred up the most shit. So proves your point really.

>>54525753
If you'd like to disagree, please elucidate your reasoning, I'd love to hear it and it looks suspiciously like HG has the legal chops to back up them being wankers.

Now, maybe I don't know all the details, but if HG is arguing for the Unseen again, how exactly would this affect the game in a way that the previous FASA suit hasn't?

>>54525720

I don't think it's necessarily incited by the video games, HG seems to keep a weather eye on CGL as a matter of course and this just coincided with the video game crowd fucking up in ways that made them vulnerable to a court case.

The Reseen have never been an issue, if they were going to make it one they would have in their complaint. They went after other images.

Look, FWIW, I think HG does not morally or legally own the IP it claims to, but this has literally no bearing in a court of law. They can show that they believe they do, that a previous court ruled they did, and that at least some of the parties to the suit agree that that they own those rights. This is their ace card and is what has the potential to really fuck up the defendants.

CGL just folding may actually be the wisest course here. Fighting HG before hasn't worked for them. Yeah, Hasbro did it, but Hasbro was a juggernaut to HG the way HG was to BT and is to PGI/HBS. I can't see this going well for either of them and I don't understand why anyone's legal department didn't raise their hand before now.

Well, aside from CGL. Their legal department, if they even have one, is probably some junior secretary at a divorce law firm who volunteers one day a month.

>>54522638
that was such a good movie

>>54525900
What movie was it?

>>54525948
last star fighter

>>54525948
The Last Starfighter

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Can someone convert the VTOLs from Avatar to BT?

anybody up for MWO?
I finally got my drop deck sorted.

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>>54525753

They have a previous judgement on their side, anon.

Jordan Weisman literally signed a document saying that he, and anyone else who might hold the BT rights in the future, agreed that HG owned all the rights to every kind of use of RoboTech/Macross imagery and that he, and any other owners of the BT rights, would never infringe on those rights again.

HG have, as stated, made a habit of winning such arguments.

>>54525797

Not re-seen, pic related. Which might even be another arrow in HG's quiver, being able to say the Unseen were redesigned in ways that didn't infringe on their property only for CGL to later go back and start using imagery that was too close for their comfort.

>>54525824

Mostly in one of two ways. Grog rage at loosing the old art (again) and if they decided to try and defend the case but lost. The documents aren't specific about what they want/wanted from CGL, they may have just wanted a C&D/Injunction/whatever you call it and for them to stop using Newseen images.

Impotent grog rage isn't going to do much, nor is having to ditch art. Both may be frustrating for CGL but have *way* less potential to finally wreck the company than committing to a court battle. I think their best bet is to let PGI and HBS try to tank HG and, in the unlikely event they do win, file another suit arguing their images should be OK based on the precedent that was set by the earlier case.

>>54526034

Yeah, just slap some mguns and rocket launchers on a 20 tonner.

>>54525986
>>54526000
Ok, just watched the trailer and it looked fucking terrible. Sell me on this movie, since that gif upthread looked neat and I'm always down for a good sci-fi romp.

>>54526050
>Not re-seen, pic related.

Do you even own a real copy of TRO PP? Each entry has like four different variants of art, including the MW3015 style one

>>54526080
I meant for the Scorpion, Sampson and Dragon types.

>>54526085
The movie is from 84, so yea the CGI and all didn't last.
It's a lot of fun, it's a kid who's good at vidya, ends up going to real space war. So it's kinda like every little boys dream. It's cute, if you like 80s stuff it'll fit well.

>>54525382
Bitchin'. I'm sort of imagining a FedSun battalion based off a Knight Errant theme. After their base was torn apart due to an internal schism during the FedCom civil war, the remnants now just cruise around between the red and green marches, going wherever there's fighting to be had. And of course, if they ever find the half of their unit that broke off to side with Katrina, words (and shells) will be traded regarding their stolen mechs.

>>54525797
I'd forgotten that! Thanks.

>>54525801
Well, anon's argument for HG having the weight of law on their side (see >>54524988) basically amounts to the belief that the PGI/HBS lawyer is incapable of making the technical points understandable and favorable to a jury of plebeian normies. That's a belief I do not share.

I think there are other flaws in HG's position, but I'm reluctant to elucidate them. I assume HG's lawyers have already considered anything I could think of, but competent people do screw up once in a while, and there's a low but non-zero chance they're monitoring the thread; likewise, the PGI/HBS team seems competent, but talented people do screw up once in a while, and I don't want to take the small but non-zero chance that they're monitoring the thread and I infect them with an attractive but ultimately wrong idea. I hope you find my cautious paranoia understandable.

>>54526113

Yeah, I know. But the ones in PP bore less resemblance to the MW trailer than the MW trailer does to the Tomahawk. Unfortunately all I can find is low-res shit copies of the original trailer right now but if you look at the feet, leg structure, torso layout, cockpit, and arms they're much more like the Destroid than they are any of the PP art.

YMMV, but if that trailer was enough to get yanked due to IP infringement, what the fuck did they think was going to happen when they had FD shit out multiple designs that looked even more like their Robotech/Macross progenitors?

>>54526140
Dragon is a bit large to try and recreate with BTechs construction rules. Samson is gonna be mguns and small rockets, Scorpion is gonna be lots of rockets.

So yeah, just make small vtols with mguns and rocket launchers. It's simple enough for you to do yourself.

>>54526229
>I hope you find my cautious paranoia understandable
I see your position and politely disagree with it. I know why you hold it, you explained yourself well and clearly, but I don't believe that Harmony Gold is aware of this thread or would care even if they were. PGI/HBS I suspect is more aware but they would likely trust their lawyers and not random fuckos on the 4chins.

Still, your decision to withhold your views is yours and I won't give you a hard time about it. That's what being a reasonable person is all about: reasonable agreement/disagreement.

>>54526229

Anon, I have served on a jury where everyone else voted to convict a guy who CC footage and credit card details showed was not even in the same state when the crime took place based on the fact that he "looked shifty" in court (gee shit, being accused of a serious offence makes people look nervous, who the fuck knew?) and a witness who was drunk at the time kinda thought the dude who did it looked like the defendant.

I am not optimistic about the ability of a lawyer to get a jury to side against a company who has a previous binding agreement over their heads and who is using machines that do look, even to someone who has been playing BT for almost twenty years, extremely similar.

Especially when HG has a proven track record of being able to do just that, both in judge-only cases and with juries.

>>54526327
>Anon, I have served on a jury where everyone else voted to convict a guy who CC footage and credit card details showed was not even in the same state when the crime took place based on the fact that he "looked shifty" in court (gee shit, being accused of a serious offence makes people look nervous, who the fuck knew?) and a witness who was drunk at the time kinda thought the dude who did it looked like the defendant.
I like legit do not believe this really happened. If there is camera footage of him being in a different state at the time of the crime, who could actually convict him? I hope that, if this is true, his lawyer appealed and he won based on the evidence being overwhelmingly in his favor.

>>54526375
Considering you don't even know that a jury has to be unanimous in its verdict to convict or exonerate in a criminal trial, I don't care what you believe.


Look up hung jury.

>>54526375

>I like legit do not believe this really happened

You're free to believe that. One of the many joys of jury duty is that you're not meant to indicate what case you served on. Even if you don't want to believe it, though, it's not like there aren't literally reams and reams of similar cases out there, with juries either convicting or acquitting not on the facts of the case but whether they think the defendant did it and/or whether they think the defendant should be punished for that or other (imagined, usually) crimes.

Fortunately I no longer have to serve on juries because I always get taken out in the selection stage due to my background in science. No lawyer, prosecution or defence, wants me on the panel.

>>54526436
You are right, I am not formally educated on the proceedings of criminal trials. Thank you for your information, no need to be a dick about it. It simply sounds like an unbelievable situation.

>>54525895
>that a previous court ruled they did, and that at least some of the parties to the suit agree that that they own those rights
>>54526050
>They have a previous judgement on their side, anon.
I agree that a previous court made a ruling, and that an agreement was reached out of court. Where I disagree is in what that ruling and what that agreement *mean*.

>HG have, as stated, made a habit of winning such arguments.
The Jetfire thing is not an unimportant reference point.

I agree that HG has the money and legal chops to back up their wanking, but that's different from saying they also have the weight of law.

>>54526436

Bingo. We were hung and he went to retrial. Second jury voted to convict just like the first, except there were no non-retards on the jury to point out that it didn't matter how "guilty" the guy looked we literally had a clear image of him using his credit card at the same time the crime was taking place. There haven't been any appeals AFAIK because he was running with a court-appointed lawyer as it was due to being long-term unemployed.

On my jury they just wanted to fuck someone else over and then go home because they were pissed at having to be there. They gave no fucks about the actual case at hand.

>>54526531

Jetfire only stuck because Hasbro has even bigger legal guns than HG, and no prior agreement about not using the images/making the toys.

HG has the prior agreement about the RT/M images they are complaining about. Bit of a difference.

>>54526327
I'm not saying charisma isn't a factor, just that HG doesn't have a monopoly on it.

>that story
Jesus Christ, man.

>>54526599
I don't disagree.

>>54526289
A refreshing stance, honored sir/madam. Much obliged.

>>54527057
>Much obliged.
Welcome (and it's "sir"). If someone doesn't try to make conversation on here civil, no one will. Let's all help make /tg/ what it used to be.

>>54526050
>I think their best bet is to let PGI and HBS try to tank HG and, in the unlikely event they do win, file another suit arguing their images should be OK based on the precedent that was set by the earlier case.
Pretty much this.
People on the HBS forums hail Weisman as some kind of demi-god for founding Battletech, and I'll give him credit for that, but in that time, he signed away the core of Battletech's spirit due to poor choice in words in the agreement, he put Battletech on the financial backburner while he made clickytech look like it was the only surviving remnant... and the way HG goes after him specifically you'd think he had his way with somebody's wife.

Still, being computer games, you get more money and a larger audience. CGL is a small, small fish with a nice porch. HBS is pretty small scale, but PGI has money to throw around - more than Harmony Gold does, anyway. It's no shocker that Harmony Gold's first target was HBS and not PGI, although PGI are the source of said images.
HBS BT without the macross unseen will still be playable, but MWO's going to have to be really generous about taking away unseen from people's mechbays in order to avoid backlash.

...though I can't say I'm surprised, Fool me once, fool me twice, but whenever someone says "We've got the unseen back", I see smoke on the horizon.

And no, Project Phoenix designs are insufficient. They hired the wrong artist for the job. As FCCW mechs? Sure. As SW-era mechs, they stand out like a sore thumb and do not share the aesthetics necessary to be believably part of the same era. Shimseen look well suited to the role, but for the past 10 years we've really been pushing our luck and should have simply made a new look for mechs based on stats and novel quotes. At least until through legal wizardry Catalyst/HBS/PGI manage to argue the rights out of HG's hands.

If they do, fuck robotech. That show was so badly done. Licence another company to publish all the missing macross series.

>>54527218

Personally I think PP was the time to bite the bullet and do the retcon, regardless of asthetics and what grognards wanted. I said it at the time and it's been (rather depressingly) validated at least twice since between 25YOA^F and this.

>>54503568
didn't this exact thing happen to palladium games too?

>>54527275
Would have been a straight dumbass move. PP was the time was the game was basically considered dead and only held alive by grogs who were also the ones doing demos and stuff. Straight retcon would have smothered the game. Not to mention the hatred of PP designs is what drove improvements to them over the years so they don't look so trash. You can almost see a straight progression from PP Griffin to DA Griffin to 2nd SW Griffin.

2008 didn't fuck up anything other than made Catalyst lose a little money on the plastic marauder they were working on for the 25th box set. And more importantly, it made public the FASA agreement that basically nobody knew about except Jordan.

Now is the only time an actual case fucked anything since 1995. And we got all the Dougram stuff back in the meantime. Plus the case might come out in favor of fucking HG and actually get some stuff solved once and for all.

If nothing else, this makes Catalyst get off their asses and move the timeline ahead for new mechs and new money. Battletech has been languishing the last couple years and this can be the fire they need under them.

>>54502855

Or you combine the Urbies together into something better:

Urbanmech The Sequel
IS experimental
100 tons
BV: 1,617
Cost: 9,620,667 C-bills

Movement: 2/3/1
Engine: 200
Heat Sinks: 10
Gyro: Standard Gyro

Internal: 152
Armor: 248/307
Internal Armor
--------------------------------------
Center Torso 31 39
Center Torso (rear) 12
Right Torso 21 26
Right Torso (rear) 8
Left Torso 21 26
Left Torso (rear) 8
Right Arm 17 27
Left Arm 17 27
Right Leg 21 33
Left Leg 21 33

Weapon Loc Heat
----------------------------------------
LB 10-X AC RT 2
LB 10-X AC RT 2
LB 10-X AC LT 2
LB 10-X AC LT 2

Ammo Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo RL 10
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo LL 10
LB 10-X AC Ammo CT 10
LB 10-X AC Ammo CT 10
LB 10-X AC Ammo LL 10

Equipment Loc
----------------------------------
Standard None
Flail RA
Flail LA

>>54527669
Congrats, it's a slightly more shit Annihilator.

>>54527694
Hey, it comes with 2 flails, that's something at least.

Also, pursuant to the thread's common thread of "fuck HG", I've heard that HG may be a front for money laundering Is that true? Are they Russian mafia money launders?

>>54527776

Real Estate is an okayish way to launder money, laundromats are better due to being mostly cash only without much in the way of receipts. Not because of a pun.

>>54503568
Added to the second to last pastebin just in case.

>>54527694

IT SPINS REALLY FAST WHILE FIRING WILDLY IN ALL DIRECTIONS

>>54527970
Then why aren't two of the LBXs facing rearward?

>>54527970

That's a very good idea.

>>54528052
>>54528155

flippy arms, yo

>>54528203
...Did you not even look at the 'mech in question? The LBXs are in the torsos, the arms have melee weapons.

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>>54528249

then put them in the arms

start with silliness, run with silliness (and scissors)

>>54528379

If you put them in the arms, you have to choose between firing weapons and swinging the flails.

>>54528512

iirc, you can only swing one flail at a time, so who cares

>>54528634
The guy who still wants to use the flails that are half the point of the design?

It's okay to admit you don't know what you're talking about. You've already demonstrated it.

>>54528946

nah

>>54528634

Whaaat really? That sucks and makes me sad.

>them feels when drunk playing with my old cat.
He's named after a mech.

>>54530150
Novacat?

>>54529614
Same reason nobody duel wields swords.

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Help!
reading the second succession war source book the Thunderbolt is listed as having the "Rugged (2)" quirk, what is this?

>>54530785
Two ranks in rugged. As in fucking tough.

>>54530830
what book is it in?

>>54530840

Either the BMM or StratOps.

>>54530848
Ah, i thought they were all in stratops. Its not on sarna or in StratOps.. ill check BMM.

Thankee

>>54530358
Loki. Hes' dumb as fuck and bites hard.

>>54530785
Rugged extends the time period between maintenance checks, in this case three times as long.

>>54530907
Sounds like a Hellbringer.

>>54530928
Righto, i grabbed the Battletech Manual test from the folder.

im planning on playing an early 2SW game with the new book coming out. Could you lend some recommendations for mechs to use as Cadet or Training mechs?

Easy to Maintain, or Rugged would be great quirks, low cost is nice. I would think that the mechs would have some weapons removed right? im not sure how trainee planes/vehicles work irl, or in setting.

Cheers!

>>54531022
The way training stuff works in setting is with dummy rounds and paint rounds and turning the power down on laser and particle weapons. The mech computers themselves have training programs that use all that stuff to simulate damage. So a training mode large laser will only burn the paint, but your mech will calculate if it should have punched through to your gyro or what have you and then simulate the appropriate effects.

Training mechs themselves tend to either be super cheap and common stuff or things that have a mix of everything weapon and movement wise to crosstrain pilots for various types of machines.

>>54531022
Chameleons are the go to trainer Mech in the setting, but pretty much anything works as a trainer with the mods as >>54531173 said.

>>54531022

Easy to Pilot is the absolute big quirk for those sorts of machines.

>>54531022
The Chameleon is traditional for this dort of thing, but honestly the Thud is a superb training machine as well, I actually use it for that IRL along with the Warhammer

>>54527599

The CRISIS OF TREACHERY or whatever over-wrought thing Sembieda called it? Something like it, yeah.

>>54527646

The grogs have *always* been the loudest. Not the most numerous or the most passionate. I wouldn't be surprised if CGL thought the forumites bitching endlessly about how the existence of the Reseen RUINED EVERYTHING FOREVER and WOULD NEVER BE ACCEPTED AT MY TABLE were representative of the player base as a whole, but they weren't. Not then. Maybe now, since so much of the other support has dropped away over time.

>>54527970

Last Starfighter thread best thread.

>>54526476

Man, I ain't formally educated in it either. I just try to have a working knowledge of government and judicial systems in my nation.

You know, like a responsible citizen? You sound like you might be too young to be on the board if you've never dealt with jury duty.

>>54531588
i have never dealt with jury duty, i dont even know what it really entails, im 30.

(not the anon you were talking to, but just my 10c. i dont even know how you end up on jury duty, do you need to be registered somewhere?)

>>54531725

Yeah. You have to register for selective service. If you haven't registered and been called for jury duty you're either a woman or breaking federal law in the US.

If you're not in the US, it doesn't matter.

>>54531738

Yeah, been registered and all that jazz for at least a decade, no summons yet. Dunno how they pull the juror pool, to be quite honest.

>>54531725

In Australia, it's done by random selection from the electoral rolls. If you're a citizen you should be on the electoral rolls.

>>54531725
You're required to register for civic stuff like jury duty and the military draft if needed when you get your driver's license or register to vote. It's part of all the crap you sign.

After that, if you get selected for jury duty, they send a summons to your residence. I've only ever got one once but I was in college so I got a pass. My dad is almost 70 and he's only ever gotten one and the guy made a plea deal before the final jury was even selected so everyone got sent home.

>>54531765

I get called up every other year at least and then spend a very boring series of days getting rejected due to my background in the STEM fields. I would actually be happy enough to do jury duty so long as it didn't coincide with crunch time at work though.

I did see another guy get out of jury duty be being the most loud-mouth bigot I've ever seen so that defence attorneys would always nope him straight the fuck out of the pool. If a certain number of days go past without you being put onto a jury they just send you home and make a note not to call you up again for at least one calendar year, IIRC.

>>54531765
Well, if you move between cities often you can avoid duties. You'd have to be pretty mobile though.

>>54531738
Not in the US.
>>54531768
Ah, im not registered to vote/not a citizen i just have permanent residency.

>>54531836
Probably shouldn't admit that, given how many /pol/acks are in /tg/

>>54531830

What if you move within a city constantly? A lot of people here bounce within city limits from place to place. Ownership is fuckin' expensive.

>>54531851

Whatever. He's legal, idgaf.

>>54531869
He's legal, but not in the US. And he speaks English which means if he's not in Oz or New Zealand he'll get the Euroskeptics up in arms.

>>54531851
im legal, the "Skilled worker" visa allows permanent residency so long as
a) you work for atleast 18 months in your skilled field (welding) within the first 24 months of living in australia
b) your skilled field employer at the end of the first 24 months agrees to write a letter to the government that says "he a good boy can stay forever"

i can apply for citizenship of Australia any time now.. but its $400 (iirc) and the cost isnt worth the benefits atm.

theres alot more details to it but eh, this is /tg/ not /int/
also alot of it is probably wrong because this was all damn near 17 years ago.

>>54531897
im aussie.

>>54531972
Congrats, do your best to become a naturalized citizen. Oz is a nice place.

Beware the feminists though. Worse than the dropbears, and unfortunately real.

>>54532050
>tumblbears

>>54524475
Now what are the odds that HG and Weisman aren't in bed together, luring new fools into the same trap for a shakedown time and again?

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postin' battletechs in a battletech thread

Cause the bears need ANOTHER kodiak. Fml get up off the kodiaks dick and start making good executioners.

>>54533450
You mean glads better than Executioner F? I'm not sure I can, dude. How vicious do you have to be to combine clplases, cerppc and targeting computer with a highly mobile assault platform? That thing will outfight you from 20 hexes forever, and you'll never catch it.

>>54527646
>Would have been a straight dumbass move. PP was the time was the game was basically considered dead and only held alive by grogs who were also the ones doing demos and stuff. Straight retcon would have smothered the game. Not to mention the hatred of PP designs is what drove improvements to them over the years so they don't look so trash. You can almost see a straight progression from PP Griffin to DA Griffin to 2nd SW Griffin.

If they had done it well, I think it would have gone over much better. They may not have had access to FD or Shim, but (If I'm not mistaken) they did PP after 3067, meaning that they could have commissioned Plog to have designed the mechs, instead.

Though personally, I think that calling up Duane Loose and asking him to do a final set of mechs, in order to make sure that the aesthetics mesh up properly, would have been a great choice.

...But Chris Lewis... his art has improved a little bit, but to be frank, he was NOT the guy to call to redesign all your most iconic designs, and I think that's the biggest issue. CL's art is alright for filler-content in a sourcebook, but not for redesigning the very foundation of the game.

>>54533794
The problem probably was that due to that high chance of not paying their artists, Plog and Loose probably where asked to do the PP mechs but said no due to that.

>>54533450
The Bears need more good mechs period.

>>54534785
Like a Land Leviathan?

>>54534813
Something that requires a star of mechs to kill?

>>54534813
That might be harder to make

>>54534843
Yeah.

Over-armored, over-gunned, and exclusive to them in a way as insane as the Orion IIC is to the Wolves.

>>54534852
And you have to have another Clan help make it but not get it.

>>54522638
>>54525900
>tfw no sequel

>>54534890
of course

Honestly the bears have a nice selection of mechs..or iv been playing them so long that im used to being around 60 tons...then again i love playing with BA so im used to everything outweighing me kek.
Really what we need is an assault that isnt a second line kodiak version 19. Tptb are at least smart enough to not let jellico make a mk2 executioner because of how pwn it would be.
Instead we get new levs...cause everybody is obviously reeeeing to play aerospace. Then people complain about the bears getting special attwntion for getting a new beatstick in the sky...despite i seriously doubt very if any will ever end up playing against one outside of a pick up game... Praise be to those of you who enjoy aerospace games, your very few and far between.

>>54534843
A star of Hellstars, perhaps?

>>54534947
Do you have any bear designs to share?

>>54534947
Aerospace is pretty fun, it's a shame about warships getting killed off.

>>54534970
What's the deal with them?

new thread
>>54535020

for later since we're practically there

>>54535000
Except Levs of course.

>>54535019
nothing, just a meme

>>54534947
BA is always fun, and in my experience not enough people include it.

It's one reason grogs are no fun.

>>54535051
Can't have the Bears slogging around in the mud like everyone else. Notice how even their outcasts are fanatically pro-Bear? It's like Capellans in the 3060s now.

What's your favorite Bug?

>>54535089
Locust since the Stinger and Wasp are too similar.

>>54535089
Which ever one I am taking apart with my 6/9/6 Hunchback's LB-20X.

>>54526085
It was a movie well ahead of it's time. One of the first to make fully CGI scenes that tried to look realistic (unlike TRON). It wasn't until Jurassic Park that Hollywood really got CGI down.

If nothing else it gave us the Death Blossom, which has been used extensively in scifi media ever since.

>>54535089
Wasp, SRM2 is handy for anything and dem infernos.