/osr/ - The Old School Renaissance

Continuing from the previous thread:
>>53963866
>Attacking Enemy Units on page 52
The only kind of damage mentioned here at all is the damage against heroes.

>look at the table on page 59
Only brings up the regular damage of a single unit.

It basically looks to me like a unit has the same number of hit points, and does the same amount of damage, regardless of how many actual creatures is in the unit: you could have ten ogres or hundred ogres and they'd do the exact same amount of damage and be able to withstand the exact same amount of punishment before all falling at the same time. Basically their actual numbers cease to matter entirely.

This can't possibly be what the truth of this is, but there's just so big walls of text here with no easy-to-read sum ups that I'm forced to ask here about it and probably make myself look like a complete moron in the process.

>>53965864
>What's your favorite OSR adventure that no one ever talks about?
I'm fond of Assault on the Tower of the Gibbelins, Fiend of the Spired City and The House of Rogat Demazien.

>>53966434
>Assault on the Tower of the Gibbelins
There's an adventure about Gibbelins? Does it go whole hog with them at the edge of the world, or does it just borrow their name or something?

Are there any good short adventures that'd fit for a two-player group of about level 4?

>>53967008
>two-player group
Have them run multiple characters.

>>53966874
It's exactly what it says on the tin. The PCs have been lured to the tower on the other side of the river that encircles the world and now they have to figure out how to burgle the Gibbelins without getting murdered. This is hard.

>>53967008
>two-player group
It'll be much easier for you if you just let them run two or three PCs each.

>>53967104
>>53967108
Thing is, it's an established campaign and we normally have a bunch of more players, but this time around several of them will have to skip a game day, leaving us with just two guys and their characters.

I was just wondering whether there'd be anything we could do with half a party without having them possess the rest of the PCs or writing in a bunch of one-note extras.

>>53967163
>or writing in a bunch of one-note extras.
If you don't even like the idea of using hirelings, I'm blank for suggestions, sorry.

>>53967199
Wouldn't hirelings be just zero-level NPCs? I don't really see how a small army of those, or the lack of one, would make a difference.

>>53967108
>It's exactly what it says on the tin. The PCs have been lured to the tower on the other side of the river that encircles the world and now they have to figure out how to burgle the Gibbelins without getting murdered. This is hard.
Sounds awesome! You got a link? The only result google gives me is this very thread.

>>53943173
Not a bad idea. I know a lot of people don't like splitting the party, but thieves/rogues are also pretty useful for that because of their self-sufficiency (although they do still have the problem where they are good at scouting ahead but need to use a fucking torch that all and sundry can see from miles away).

>>53963097
There was some OSR supplement about this I saw on RPGnow called By This Axe/By This Poleaxe (depending on the exact details of the mass combat). Looked pretty alright. One of them is free too I think.

>>53963180
>I really liked the idea, but in longer play I find its combat jarring on a philosophical level - if I wanted it to get lethal, I can't just declare an attack and drop a d20 vs AC. Every time I deal damage to PCs, I feel too responsible instead of delegating the hit resolution off to the game's rules and dice.

Just make some guidelines for yourself to follow instead to leaving it all up to whim. Like 6- always means you deal damage (maybe plus something else). That can really help make the unpredictable nature of GM Moves more palatable to traditional gamer types.

>>53967008
Just run them through a level 2 module. 2 guys at level 4 is about equal to 4 guys at level 2, or so says their hit dice. It's also fun to go beat up low level monsters as a high level guy occasionally because it shows you that the game isn't just a treadmill - you actually are getting more powerful.

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Daily reminder that magic-users choose a different path. Instead of cowering away from the darkness, they revel in it. They see the forces of magic as a new frontier to explore, a new tool for the attainment of power and knowledge. If it blackens the soul to equal that of any devil, it is but a small price to pay.

>>53966011
Nah, you've got it.

>Units engaged in combat make attack and damage rolls just as characters do.

It's basically scaling one creature up to a whole unit of creatures. If 1 Ogre can do 1d10 to a 1 HD militiaman, then 12 Ogres can do 1d10 to 100 1 HD militiamen. It's better than having hundreds of Hit Dice and damage dice.

As for their actual numbers, it's not really a problem. You get down to the last man or the last ogre and they can still do the same damage as if they were an individual creature. You can see half hit points as half the unit being wiped down, so morale checks.

After all, a high-level fighter down to 1 hp still does the same amount of damage. It's just an abstraction.

Anyone willing to give some insight on a custom class I'm making in ACKs?

>>53969196
Don't ask, just post it

>>53967163
>OSR
>Not using hirelings

>>53967163
>>53967214
They could be allies of any level, paid or not.

Give them a couple new characters to control, more or less justified by the context of the adventure.

It'd be a fun way to try out a new character, and there could be various rewards based on whether the new PC's survive.
>If the mysterious wizard dies, you get his spellbook and a wand with a few charges
>if he survives, you may ally with his coven and have a resource for magical research or a place to lay low.

If you don't want to introduce new characters, run a mystery scenario or something that doesn't particularly rely on combat. Perhaps there's an enemy that's easy to kill, but difficult to catch.

>>53969196
Drop it like it's hot.

I like reading custom stuff, especially when it's thought out.

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>>53969251
I posted some of it last thread but didn't get any feedback. Here's what I got so far. Any changes or critiques would be desired

Class Category - Eremi Mercenary
Hit Dice: [d4]
Fighting: 2 BP [1000 XP]
Attack Throws: +2 per 3 Levels
Weapon Selection: Narrow [+ 2 CusP] [+300 XP]
Armor Selection: Narrow [+3 CusP] [+450 XP]
Fighting
Styles: Two-Handed Melee & Two Weapons [+1 CusP] [+150 XP]
Damage Bonus: +1 per 3 Levels
Cleaves: 1 per Level

Thievery: 1 BP [+200 XP]
Divine: 1 BP [+250 XP]
Arcane:
Prime Requisites: CON & DEX
Saving Throw Progression: Fighter

XP Requirements for each level:
2nd - 2500 XP
3rd - 5000 XP
4th - 10000 XP
5th - 20000 XP
6th - 40000 XP
7th - 80000 XP
8th - 160000 XP
9th - 280000 XP
10th - 400000 XP
etc.

Total CusP: 6
CusP:
-Acrobatics
-Darkvision 60r
-Fighting Fury
-Alertness

Skills:
-Move Silently
-Hide In Shadows
-Backstab

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>>53970517
Eremi Spell List:
1st:
Raze (Blast) - 1d10 per Level, Maximum 4d Damage, Elemental (Fire), Targets 1 creature, 5" diameter sphere, attack throw required to hit target, Range 150', Instantaneous, Saving throw avoids spell, Source divine [Cost 8.6]

Warmth (Healing) - Cures 1d6 + 1, Targets 1 creature, Attack throw required, Target self, Instantaneous, Beneficial effect, Source divine [Cost 7.5]

Scorching Fists (Blast) - 1d12 per Level, Maximum 5d Damage, Elemental (Fire), Targets 1 creature, 5" diameter sphere, Attack throw required, Range 0", Instantaneous, Saving throw reduces spell effect by half, Source divine [Cost 8.6]

2nd:
Smokestep (Transmogrification) - Current form becomes gaseous, Target self, Duration 1 turn, source divine [Cost 13]

Hearth (Healing) - Cures 2d6, Targets 1 creature, Attack throw required, Range 0", Instantaneous, Beneficial effect, Source divine [Cost 20]

Solar Flare (Harming) - Inflicts Blindness, Targets 1 creature, Attack throw required, Range 60", Instantaneous, Saving throw avoids spell, Source divine [Cost 19]

3rd:
Tongue of Surt (Blast) - 1d10 per Level, Maximum 4d damage, Elemental (Fire), Target by Area 60" long x 10" wide cone, Attack thow required, Range 0", Instantaneous, Saving throw reduces spell effect by half, Source divine [Cost 23.3]

Starting Equipment:
Crimson Gargoyle Leather Suit, Smoke Scented Sable Robes, Charcoal Desert Shemagh, Khyber Sword with Bone Handle, Red Steel Sabre, Traveller Boots, Waterskin, 1 weeks Iron Rations

>>53970550
>Gargoyle Leather
wat

>>53970709
Fluff piece from the setting. Got the inspiration from Dark Souls with the Gargoyle drop items.

>>53967163
Temporarily promote favored hirelings to characters.
Or start up a character tree/stable/whatever.

Frankly, they should have one of those already.

>>53967163
>without having them possess the rest of the PCs
Never, ever allow characters to die while their players are absent.
That's the epitome of begging for a hissing fit.

What classes do you have in your game?

Do you think more or less classes make players more creative?

Do you make a new class if a player wants to be something very specific?

Do you use ability score requirements?

How important and distinct are classes in your game?

>>53970709
>Leather

>>53971425
I keep classes as few and as distinct as possible. The less there are, the more space players have to make whatever sort of a weird thing out of them: the fighter can be a barbarian or a ranger or a swashbuckler, or it could end up being something even weirder they might not even have thought of had they been constrained by more classes.

>>53969663
>run a mystery scenario or something
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/15151/roleplaying-games/game-structures-part-5-mysteries
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1118/roleplaying-games/three-clue-rule

>>53970517
>sneaky arsonists
Just call them ninja.

>>53971476
Do you let them pick certain bonuses, for example their favored weapon, in order to distinguish various "roles", or is a ranger and a barbarian effectively the same mechanically in your game?

>>53971425
>What classes do you have in your game?
depends on the system really
>Do you think more or less classes make players more creative?
eh I'd say that's too dependent on the players in question to answered with any reliability
>Do you make a new class if a player wants to be something very specific?
depends on the system, if it's something like ACKS than probably cause it's easy to do
>Do you use ability score requirements?
I'm not necessarily against ability score requirements, but the ones that OSR systems often use are too much
>How important and distinct are classes in your game?
again too reliant on the system I'd be using to answer reliably

>>53971425
>What classes do you have in your game?
I've a a rest progression tree thing, but it's basically just Fighter, Magic-User, and Demihuman.
>Do you make a new class if a player wants to be something very specific?
Absolutely all the time.

>>53971828
>depends on the system really
I'm mostly interested in the osr system you are currently running, or planning on running.

>>53971891
>I'm mostly interested in the osr system you are currently running, or planning on running.
honestly I'm kinda suffering from choice paralysis in that regard, even limiting my choices to just the ones I own in physical format I've got about 14 different OSR systems I could possibly run

>>53972146
>even limiting my choices to just the ones I own in physical format
How many have you actually run before?

>>53972267
>How many have you actually run before?
honestly none, I've had ridiculously bad luck actually DMing anything in the past, and due to a move back in 2013 I have no one to play with anyways

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I'm using a d12 spell list for starting spells in my game. And I have fucking 11.

>Transport loot and gear and shit
>Magic Missile stand in
>Slow everyone down curse
>Enemies make a morale check curse
>Curse that lowers enemy HD by one (goes to zero they get knocked out like Sleep)
>Spell that lets you avoid a saving throw
>Spell that blocks a passage or door or whatever so you can escape
>Guidance spell that helps you navigate
>Message spell so you can be clever and transmit information far away
>Slowfall/levitation stand in
>Mage hand stand in

And I need exactly one more. It's really tough to think of because all the 'cool' spells, like making dead bodies speak and tell you everything the body knew before it died, or making men made out of clay as minions, or teleportation, or transformation and all that stuff are weird spells I want to make more specific and hard to find. I want the original list of spells to be as tight, dungeon focused, and useful/"balanced" as possible with each other.

I don't want to give Wizards automatic light spells or conjuring spells to make planning and resource management obsolete. I don't want to give Wizards anything that lets them bypass locked doors or avoid random encounters because that's the Rogue's thing. I don't want to give the Wizard anything that's useful to spam because my game as unlimited daily casts, just needing time in between casts to prepare the spells again and I don't really want to encourage that playstyle.

Any ideas?

>>53972395
Spells are more interesting if they combine unrelated things.
Double up spells 1&10, 2&4, 3&9, and 6&8.
Add some very limited divination to 7.
Add speak with dead to 11?

You now have a d8 spell list. ...and need one more spell.

>>53972395
fireball fire ball
lightning bolt lightningbolt

Does anyone know how to introduce WW1 era gun types, artillery, and items like breech-loading guns, lever action guns, bolt action guns, and cartridges in Domains of War?

>>53972382
Oh hey it's me.

>having friends
>having friends with free time
>having friends with free time who are into RPGs
>having friends with free time who are into RPGs and want to play OSR

Let's just keep buying books, brother. At least they're fun to flick through and imagine what could be.

>>53972395
>Spells are more interesting if they combine unrelated things.
Oh, and make sure every spell has one glaring limitation.

Maybe that door spell can only tell you who's passed through it. Or permenantly mars the door. Or puts the answer on the side you're barring.
Maybe that speak with dead only works once per corpse, then damns the ghost. Or maybe it only works if the ghost hates you? Etc.

>>53972537
>>53972688

>Telling me to combine spell effects together when I already made effects as general as possible
>Telling me to do these things when I am the only person who ever combined Slowfall and Levitation into one spell
>Telling me to create more flavorful spells when I specifically did not want to create flavorful spells
>Telling me to make a d8 spell list but add another one to it, in which case it would be useless as a start spells list

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

>>53973097
>flavor is bad
I don't think you're asking for what you want.

>>53973253
If someone's deliberately makign a list of generic spells, the best advice is not 'make them less generic lol'

>>53973331
The best advice I can give is, "Make spells do two things and have a limitation."

You can consider it next to why you decided to make the list.

Maybe you'll refocus on an existing part of your motives/thoughts that had been receiving less attention.
Maybe you'll get a thread of inspiration from what i said that wasn't wholly related to what I meant.

You won't necessarily come away siding with me, but you will come away with something.
Or you can ignore what I've said and come away with nothing.

But that would be antisocial.
Which is odd, people go to forums to be social.

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>>53973458

>Links to the definition of the word 'Dialogue' as if to say "hur dur you're retarded u don't know what this word means"
>Gives unwanted advice on how to design spells
>"Make spells do two things and have a limitation" as if that is a reigning principle on spell design
>deliberately ignores the guidelines about why I want to make spells and acts smug going outside the box
>If you ignore me then you're antisocial, so why would you come on here lol?

>>53973458
>>53973712
for real, what a smug prick

>>53973712
Yes. You're absolutely perfect and have nothing to learn.
Which is how were able to invent the exact number of spells you wanted.
>>53973763
You've also conveyed the expression of smiling and having a nose.

>>53973850
why are you still posting?

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>>53972581
Actually, belay that question, I found some Pathfinder rules from Rasputin Must Die thing. In conjunction with the advent of guns, I want to make a response to this from the Fighter's Guild who still use melee weapons like swords, spears, and the like. I want to write up prices for alchemically treating materials like steel, cloth, and leather that change their properties into something stronger, lighter, and more flexible. How expensive would you consider the process of treating pieces of armour and the like to become shot resistant?

>>53973880
Can't say what's good for game balance but in real life it was hella expensive. Also even proof armor would be practically worthless against any WW1 era firearm above a pistol.

>>53974329
If they feel like going a tad anachronistic
>>53973880
>alchemically treating materials
http://www.businessinsider.com/air-force-cadet-bullet-stopping-goo-for-body-armor-2017-5

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>>53972395
Steal one from here, maybe?

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Building off a conversation we were having in last thread, how would you value disarming an opponent as compared to inflicting damage?

I realize this question has a number of facets -- How many hits does it take to kill the enemy? Does the enemy have a backup weapon? Does drawing a new weapon take up his turn, or can he draw and strike on the same turn? Can he just pick up the weapon he was disarmed off? -- so feel free to expound on each of the bits.

Ultimately, though, I'm looking to get some kind of guideline on something that's always been a random ass-pull for me. So how powerful is disarming? What about knocking somebody over? I'm not looking for a mechanic here, but rather a valuation (though obviously you can extrapolate valuation from a mechanic, if there's one you think yields the results you're looking for).

>>53969303
No game I've ever ran has used hirelings.

>>53975238
I think it's probably worth an attack, and it becomes more valuable at higher levels because things don't die in 1 hit anymore (so missing your sword can accumulate over multiple rounds).

Could always take a cue from Dungeon World and let people deal damage + do some kind of fictional effect at the same time. People are always complaining martial types are too skimpy anyway so the buff probably wouldn't hurt.

>>53975154
That was a good thread day.

>>53975154 c >>53973331

>>53972395
Having two different kinds of straight damage spells makes sense. Magic Missile is long range, auto-hit, so maybe splash damage at close range that people can save to avoid?

Alternately, some kind of illusion / trickery / change appearance spell.

Some kind of snare / entangle / web / flying ropes spell, that tangles people up.

Some kind of defense spell that makes you harder to hit or absorbs damage (shield, armor, blur, displaced image, protection from missiles, etc.).

Something that obscures vision (fog, darkness, etc.).

Some kind of anti-magic spell?

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>>53962315
Thanks for posting these quotes. They are most of the ones I'm including in my Estates post, oddly enough.

>>53962504
>Filthy mainlanders actually believe that generic high fantasy medieval tokenism is based off the psychopathic evil french elite instead of the far more noble, good humored, and egalitarian society of the Britons

I... don't think we're taking about generic high fantasy medieval tokenism? I don't think D&D is that at all, even if it says it is. And yeah, the Britons were arguably slightly better at not being insane, but it's not really a contest. It's like watching two people play "bite the earlobe" while mud wrestling. You don't really care that one of them has a degree from Harvard.

>>53975243
>No game I've ever ran has used hirelings
Same here. It's not like I don't see the use, but it makes for a less interesting, less immersive game in my opinion.

>>53975307
>I think it's probably worth an attack, and it becomes more valuable at higher levels
Under what conditions? Is it a matter of the disarmed guy taking a turn to draw an inferior weapon? (Loses a turn, and probably does -1 on -2 damage per strike on average?).

If he can draw a new weapon and strike on the same turn, then it seems like disarming is considerably worse than dealing damage, unless the target is really high level and you can expect a long fight.

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>>53975414
>>53975243
Out of curiosity, have you ever seen the movie "Flesh and Blood?"

>>53975488
Nope. Fill me in.

>>53974329
This sort of proofing would essentially be considered magic, so there's not much of a real world comparison other than the hight tech stuff like the other Anon posted.

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>>53975513
See, they made a 2h8min summary of it that you can download and watch. It even has special effects.

Or if that doesn't work, I hear looking it up on any of the different internets might work.

>>53975537
You're a cool guy, anon.

>>53973458
lol i came into this thread to say that you're retarded

>>53971623
That's what I was going for, yeah. Anything else you recommend I add or subtract?

>>53976429
Replace backstab with causing disease.
Also give them some sort of "distant distraction" or ventriloquist spell.

>>53976250
You came to this thread to samefag.

>>53975537
How well do your Necromancers get on with the church?
What sort of deals do they cut for their Doom?

>>53975238
In many cases it's tantamount to defeating your opponent, so it would have to be calibrated against those cases. (It's also very hard IRL compared to e.g. just killing somebody with a sword.) Knocking someone prone should be easier, for instance.

Personally, I don't even like to run disarms as a technique; I see them as more of the end result of subdual. Once you've gotten to the point of completely shutting someone down, THEN you can take his weapon away. (As also mentioned last thread, if someone has an image or PDF of the Strategic Review article about OD&D grappling, now would be a good time to post that. I thought I had it myself, but I can't find it)

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>>53977988
tl;dr
>Roll to hit as normal and then each side rolls their hit dice.
>Whoever wins has control, whether that means pinning them, shoving them, etc.

>>53977988
Hmm. I wonder if there's some workable system whereby people get easier to disarm as they get more wounded. It makes sense from a balance perspective (the more wounded somebody is, the less of a point there is in disarming them seeing as they don't have that many hit points left) and a logic perspective (somebody who's hurt and worn down is going to be easier to outmaneuver). If nothing else, you could just give a bonus if the target is at half-life. If you were doing something like this d6 system >>53965246, maybe you could let the person have the better of 2 rolls if the target was at half or less life.

>>53978132
>tfw just realized that in Chainmail combat, armor is completely irrelevant in melee between Heroes and higher aside from any magic bonus it has
I think I like it better, tb h.

>>53978132
Thanks, bruh. For some reason I keep imagining the rule Gygax outlined as much more complicated than it actually is. Some sort of brain damage from literally every other edition of D&D having terrible grappling rules, no doubt.

>>53979222
I'd blame the "inarticulate high school dropout with a thesaurus" prose.

>>53979302
Gygax wasn't responsible for the shitty grapple rules, kek.

>>53979302
Probably. Freakin' Gygaxian prose. The thing is, it's not even really that bad in this case; the main flaw is that he put a bunch of the actual rule text in the combat example.

>>53979320
The SR grappling rules are not shit, and definitely Gygax's work; all of the early SR content was. (Notice how the one thing that isn't has Blume's byline.) >>53978132 is issue #2, ever; it's way before they hired Kask on to do that job.

>>53967008
Pick any level 4 adventure and use Scarlet Heroes.

I, personally, absolutely suck at running hirelings, we all forget about them and it's not fulfilling so it's either a big group or SH for me.

Are there any recorded sessions of typical OSR around? I'm thinking about running some Moldvay or DGC for my group and could really use some examples from GM's point of view.

>>53980497
>recorded
I'm not aware of any good ones, not much of a podcast guy myself, but if you search RPG.net of all fucking places for "Fellowship of the Bling", it's a pretty good chronicle of Moldvay Basic, written by the referee, with fairly good notes on how it was run.

>>53965864
Does anyone know of a way to backup the trove or make a new link for it? Some jackass on another chan posted the full link in a busy request thread.

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I've always really enjoyed how HD works with most things in OSR games. I like how bigger monsters with more HD are stronger not just from health but other forms of stat inflation, and I like it can be manipulated in some way; spells that lower HD for instance can do more then just lower max health.

However, I'm not a fan of how higher levels monsters rarely miss and rarely get hit by characters without good to-hit progression. Obviously Wizards and Thieves shouldn't be the best at fighting but making them unable to hit anything is kind of lame. Secondly making them too good at hitting things makes AC scaling a problem since you can't just scale AC as easily as health. Additionally, big huge monsters even with this can't kill players very easily if they don't get a shit ton of multiple attacks or how obnoxious save or die venom or petrifcation rays or whatever.

So in my game I considered the follow change. Instead of getting bonus AC, they don't get any bonus defenses. Having all that bonus health is good enough. But what monsters do get is a bonus to their basic damage equal to HD-1. This means that big high level monsters still have similar chances to hit, and are based on the individual MONSTER instead of just being a flat bonus. Also this means that even high level creatures can still be hit reasonably by characters that aren't that good at fighting.


Technically this makes them dangerous because a big ass HD 8 giant sword demon thing will be doing 1d6+7 damage every time it swings, but I think it makes the creature really dangerous without being obnoxious. If anything this means that big creatures just make armor MORE important since their chance to hit. Maybe you'll actually consider getting some armor on your Thief or Wizard character if the DM lets you, and makes shields more useful.

Any thoughts on this? This obviously doesn't apply to every game but I really dig the concept, at least for my own.

Is An Echo, Resounding in the trove? I can't seem to find it.

>>53975154
"Candlefist" is still one of my favorite things to come out of /osrg/.

>>53980717
If you have a Mega account, there's an option to mirror it.
Otherwise, you'll have to wait to download the whole thing.

Speaking on downloading the whole thing, do you can download whole directories as archive files IIRC.

>>53977722
I might do the distant distraction spell, but why the suggestion of replacing backstab with disease?

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How do we fix the Charm spell?

>>53982132
It was fine in Men & Magic.

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>>53977781
Necromancers are Outlaws. They are banned by the Church and will be burned if found.

Common people have a slightly different view. Necromancers raised several kingdoms in the past, and while they are connected with slaughter and oppression of the living, they are also remembered as wise kings. It's commonly believed that only those who died "in their sins", that is, without extreme unction, can be raised. They might be correct.

Necromancers can travel to Hell to cut all kinds of deals. There are many souls that should be in Hell that remain in among the living. Ghost Rider them into the ground. There are cities that need to be warned. There are dead that have been forgotten, or dead that are pained by their memory among the living. Emperors, tormented by their sins, might beg you to cast down their monuments and burn their history books.

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>>53982132
You're going to need to give a little more information. Your questions is as vague as possible right now. Are there specific systems, contexts, or rules you want to examine?

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Is there any custom made Fiting-styles like the 5e D&d to OSR ?

Preferably that isn't just a stat boost like +1 dmg with 1-hand weapons ect.

>>53983984
That type of thing is an ongoing item of interest here. Anon made a LotFP Monk class recently which I thought was good, a good mixture of static bonus stuff like "armor-breaking fist" and more active techniques.

So I'm working on my own houserules. Maybe you guys have some answers to some difficulties I'm having.

One of the big problems I have with D&D is that the abilities scores don't mean anything beyond fluff. A guy with 13 strength isn't actually any less strong than a guy with 15 strength if they both receive the same bonuses. They can both do the same sort of feats in the world.
Into the Odd's solution for this appeals to me, making all saves based on the three consolidated ability scores: Strength, Dexterity, Willpower (essentially 3.5/4e's Fortitude, Reflexes, Will) So that when you roll a save or try to do something skill-like, you just try to roll under your ability score.

But then this turns into another problem I have with D&D: binary pass/fail outcomes.
I prefer the Reaction chart, where there are five degrees of failure or success rolled on 2d6: 1. Complete castrophic failure. 2. Normal failure 3. Success with Complication 4. Success 5. Overwhelming success

So my problem is, how do I create a system in which each unit of any given ability score matters, and isn't a binary pass/fail check?

>>53984273
R e f e r e e s J u d i c a t e A c t i o n s
s n o i t c A e t a c i d u J s e e r e f e R

>They can both do the same sort of feats in the world.
No, they can't.

Does anyone know if there's a way to get the Barrowmaze Complete ZIP file? I understand there's one with illustrations and even handouts the book mentions.

I'm planning to buy it, but since in Latin America things are 3x more expensive, i'd like to give it a few sessions first.

Yes, the PDF is also expensive as hell, supposedly he author thinks it is a GEM of the OSR and so he won't ever consider making it a bit cheaper...

I hate being from a poor country

>>53984546

Yeah, okay, that's great and all but please feel free to tell me what a person with Strength of 13 can't do that a Strength 15 can without relying on, "I'm the GM, because I say so." Give me some guideline to follow, because otherwise why even have stats rated between 3-18 and not just use the bonuses themselves?

Responding with "Because I'm the GM" isn't an answer.

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LotFP = Darkest Dungeon
DCC = D&D: Chronicles of Mystara
AD&D = Legend of Grimrock
Gamma World = Caves of Qud

>>53981786
Oh gosh, thank you anon.

>>53984731
Lift heavier shit?

Attributes exist to inform a player's persona and to help refs make decisions.
If you don't use them for those, then excise them from your system altogether.
>just use the bonuses themselves?
Everything else, bonuses included, is just bells and whistles.


> Give me some guideline to follow,
>"Because I'm the GM" isn't an answer.
I'm not going to say playing OSR, as a character, isn't for you.
But if you can't make a gut call, running OSR probably isn't.

>>53984731
>why even have stats rated between 3-18 and not just use the bonuses themselves?
Because 3d6 bell curve and class requirements

>>53985052
DCC?

>>53985226

False dichotomy. Just because I want more clear definitions of what each level of an ability is capable of does not mean "OSR isn't for me". This would be like me saying OSR isn't for you because you like making "gut calls" so why even have any rules systems at all? It's stupid. If you have nothing to offer, say nothing.

>>53985354
Dungeon Crawl Classics

>>53984731
Clear rubble in fewer turns?
Scare off chumps at level 1?
Stall for time playing tug of war with an ogre?
Be able (or unable) to hold up a heavy gate?
Wrestle a rhino?

>>53985373
>so why even have any rules systems at all?
The rules exist purely and solely to handle what you can't (or don't feel comfortable) fairly and consistently arbitrating.

>>53985373
Half the appeal of OSR is lightweight rules with a lot of room for houseruling and homebrewing, so if you want a sturdy system which can handle all situations without the DM stepping in you are better off looking elsewhere. Although for your question I think all D&D editions are about the same in treating different strength scores which don't get to be different modifiers

>>53984273
Make or use a formula for how much shit you can carry based off your str score instead of the bonus. I'm pretty sure this is already a thing, forget which encumbrance system though. It can give you a number/weight as max that you can use to help eyeball if they can lift a gate, boulder, etc.

I wouldn't worry about it as much, but I can see how having a model/units of measurement is a thing some people want and can even aid people learning how to wing it later.

What's your favorite treasure table?

>>53986011
AD&D puts that on a table.

>>53986106
The really good one. You know the one.
Someone else will post it soon.

>>53986011

Yeah, Strength is actually an easier one to model granularity, but Dexterity, Wisdom? What does a jump from 13 to 14 mean for those?

>>53986110
>I forget which encumbrance system
>its ad&d dood
well shit

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Well that took way too long...

Here are some notes for using the Three Estates in your OSR games. There aren't many rules, but there is a lot of (hopefully) useful, gamable info to prime your brain-parsts: https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/06/osr-three-estates.html

Also, here's bonus 1d100 table of medieval professions. These things are always useful: https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/06/osr-1d100-actually-medieval-professions.html

Does anyone have curse/blessing/random event tables?

>>53986146
Wis 13 is Gutei's apprentice, wis 14 is Gutei.

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>>53986258

>>53984731
Attribute checks are a thing. "Roll directly vs. your [attribute] to accomplish this task." With strength though, I commonly favor 1d6 + strength vs. a target number to accomplish something (with the target number being 3 higher than the strength score you think should be able to pull off the task most of the time). For certain tasks which shouldn't have much variance (can you lift something heavy, or win an arm wresting contest), I either just set a strength score with no dice roll (the higher strength automatically winning in arm-wrestling, and flipping a coin if the strengths are the same).

>>53986316
>I either just set a strength score with no dice roll
...or reduce the dice size to a d4 or fudge die or something.

>>53986291
Thanks

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>>53986258
>>53986367

These might also help.

>>53986267
Is wis 15 Tenryū?

anyone have an adventure for a 1st level party of two? two friends want to play LL but I don't want to outright murder them or burden them with managing an army of hirelings.

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>>53986258
Page 3, Mutations table (upper right corner).

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>>53986796

>>53986796
You can give them multiple characters without giving them hirelings.

>>53986106
I really like Courtney Campbell's Treasure. Infinite Trinkets is a lot of fun too, but its more oddities and curios the players have to figure out how to use.

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>>53986796
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/06/osr-tomb-of-serpent-kings-megapost.html

You can run this with 2 players very easily. This guy did it: http://throneofsalt.blogspot.ca/2017/05/play-report-tomb-of-serpent-kings.html

And although both of the characters died, they did die foolishly. You could probably learn from their mistakes and makes edits accordingly.

>>53987018
Henchmen are a favorite of mine, and unlike hirelings will grow like PCs, and have their own motivations and goals. Good chance to use loyalty, morale, and charisma stuff, with two mostly equal NPC companions.

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>>53982355
Since Hell is apparently a place people can just go to in your setting, what's it like?

Your whole "God is a busy modron" kind of gave me the feeling that Hell would just be another world, but with only jackasses and poor people.
Is there a Church in Hell to subdivide into further double Hells and semi-Heavens? Or is to Hell a godless place where he need sort no further?

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>>53987298
>Since Hell is apparently a place people can just go to in your setting, what's it like?

I haven't decided yet. Generic devils, for sure, but I think that they are just as righteous as angels. Their job is to tempt you into sin and ensure you show up for punishment on time. The Adversary was created by the Authority to oppose /people/, not his will. In theory. Haven't really done much thinking about the subject.

When you die, only your soul goes to hell, and souls are kind of stupid. You store most of your memories in your meat.

However, you can also tunnel there or build stairs down. There might be people living there who aren't even condemned.

I don't think there's a church, but there are prison wardens.

>>53986981
>>53987146
cheers

>>53987274
i do have some premade henchmen for miscellaneous games, but never considered letting them develop alongside the PCs. i'd hate to have one become an awesome-at-everything dmpc

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Hi /osr/. I'm about to start designing level one of a gargantuan megadungeon that my players might be dumb enough to stumble into.

I'd really appreciate all the resources you can think of for megadungeon/regular dungeon design, be they blog posts, PDFs, recommendations from the trove, or whatever else.

Thanks in advance.

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>>53987763
I post a bit about dungeon design here:>>53987146

These posts are also important: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/tag/jaquaying-the-dungeon

>>53987763
TheangryGM's series on megadungeon design is a good starting point. Some people take issues with his very strong positions on "right" ways to build a dungeon, and his articles tend to assume a more modern 3.x or 5e game with skill rolls and such, but they are an excellent starting framework.

TheAlexandrian also has a number of good articles on dungeon design in general. His article on "Jaquaying" the dungeon is a pretty useful read (after Paul Jaquays, author of a number of Judge's Guild dungeons that feature multiple entries and exits)

>>53987802
That series on the Alexandrian is a must, really opened my brain up about how dungeons (or any building that PCs are exploring, for that matter) ought to function.

I remember reading it for the first time one night while in my school's dining hall and crossing out and redrawing maps I had in my notebook, realising I'd been doing the whole damn thing wrong.

>>53984273
This genuinely just sounds like you want to make D&D over into Apocalypse World, so maybe just play that instead. That being said:

>One of the big problems I have with D&D is that the abilities scores don't mean anything beyond fluff.
Remove them, then. For the game to work smoothly level should be the primary determinant of ability. Notably this:

>making all saves based on the three consolidated ability scores: Strength, Dexterity, Willpower (essentially 3.5/4e's Fortitude, Reflexes, Will) So that when you roll a save or try to do something skill-like, you just try to roll under your ability score.
is a terrible idea; don't ever do this. Having saving throws not be based on level will lead to shit genuinely going wrong in your game. It doesn't work, it has never worked, and everyone who tried it fucked their shit up. It's the "jumping Grand Canyon on a bike" of D&D.

>binary pass/fail outcomes
These are practically never a problem in practice. Most problems and challenges in D&D are ones you either bypass or don't. For the few that aren't, notably combat, there are more complex resolution mechanisms capable of giving a graduated outcome.

Also, you stole this directly out of AW. So just play that if it's crucial to you.

>>53984273
One interesting thing I recently saw in Veins of the Earth is a "failure table", where a failure on a skill check results in rolling a d20 and comparing the result against each of your attributes in a specific order. As soon as you fail one ability, you suffer the consequence listed. If well written, the matrix creates consequences for failure linked to your "weak" attribute.

The major way this is used in Veins is on climbing failures - when you fail a climbing test, you do the attribute matrix test and suffer a consequence related - an intelligence failure means that you actually misjudged the length of rope required, while a charisma failure results in a complication that fouls up someone else on the climbing rope, and so forth.

You don't necessarily have to implement the exact same thing, but the key idea here is to provide some sort of method where attributes don't necessarily have a greater impact on your pass/fail chances, but rather on *how* you fail, or what the consequences of failure are.

>>53987763
Courtney Campbell's Treasure and Empty Rooms pdfs are good (and free).

Philotomy's musings on creating an old school dungeon and dungeon as mythic underworld are handy too: http://www.grey-elf.com/philotomy.pdf

>>53988005
>>53988089
Will check both these out, thanks! I saw the Campbell PDFs in the trove, but weren't sure whether they'd be useful right off the bat when I'm trying to concern myself with graphic layout.

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Best low-prep module to run for LotFP that isn't Tower of the Stargazer of DFD? I have 2 new players tonight and want them to get the grim vibe, but my other 2 players have ran in those adventures.

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>>53987400
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2017/06/scrap-princess-plays-fourth-edition.html

>>53988189
Sometimes I find going content to layout can help shake things up from the usual layout to content order. In the end the layout and content should both work together, so the order you do it in doesn't necessarily matter as much as you might think.

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Can anyone give some tips on running different types of quests that can generally be arranged as Protect, Search, Explore, Capture, and Slay? Like protecting a caravan from highwaymen or searching for villagers that went missing near the holy spring?

>>53988260
I found Forgive Us easy to run with minimal fuss. If they fuck up it probably unleashes an apocalypse but that's kind of lotfp's thing. Monolith From Beyond Space & Time looks straight forward enough too, if high fatality even for lotfp, but I haven't had a chance to run it.

>>53987886

>Also, you stole this directly out of AW

No, I took it from OD&D's Reaction table, dumbfuck.

is there a better formatted version of the arduin grimoire out there somewhere?

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>>53987400
>>53938531
Your whole adversary shtick reminds me of a post from a thread I saw a while back.
Can't seem to find it now.

The jist of it was "the Crusades conquered hell, but have since gotten extremely corrupt."

And one of the things they were doing was licensing devils to weed out temptible mortals.
But, like, really poor management. So tons of unlicensed devils or devils bribing their way into the secret police.

>>53987763
"Campaign Source Book and Catacomb Guide" and "The Alexandrian" are both worth your time.

>>53980866
My concern would be that low AC enemies means they can be swarmed by hordes of xbow hirelings or attack dogs or what have you

>>53965864
'oughta add this to the tools pastebin
http://fantasycities.watabou.ru

>>53989099
The buttons correspond to 6, 10, 22, and 27 but you can actually send anything from 6 to 40 in your GET request.

ex; http://fantasycities.watabou.ru/?size=40&seed=2

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>>53987400
>I don't think there's a church, but there are prison wardens.
now you got me imagining Hell in a D&D setting to end up being Superjail

actually thinking it over, a mini campaign where you're all inmates at Superjail and have to try to escape it would probably be pretty fun

>>53989099
>>53989183
Added it to the pastebin!

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>>53988367
Pretty much. "I don't know and at this point it's not relevant".
>>53988952
I think that's Arnold K's system, as written.

>>53965864
>>53989099
Should add rolesrules.blogspot.com to the blogs pastebin too while you're at it.

How did Stars Without Numbers become so popular?

>>53988986
Will check them out, thanks!

>>53989570
Probably Swan Song. It seems good and I wish I could enjoy it, but watching people play RPGs for hours on end is boring to me.

I just hope it doesn't forever shape the future of Stars Without Number, because it really is a neat sandbox game all by itself.

>>53989570
>How did Stars Without Numbers become so popular?
probably because it was the first in depth OSR Sci-Fi game, which led to a ton of people adopting it even most of it is honestly mediocre at best

>>53989291
Now added! Need more blog descriptions, several are still missing some.

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If any of you haven't read the original Salic Law, it's worth a quick scan. It's very, very short but full of great content and flavour for an early medieval game.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/medieval/salic.asp

>Title XIX. Concerning Magicians.
>1. If any one have given herbs to another so that he die, he shall be sentenced to 200 shillings (or shall surely be given over to fire).
>2. If any person have bewitched another, and he who was thus treated shall escape, the author of the crime, who is proved to have committed it, shall be sentenced to 2500 denars, which make 63 shillings.

>Title XXX. Concerning Insults.
>3. If any one, man or woman, shall have called a woman harlot, and shall not have been able to prove it, he shall be sentenced to 1800 denars, which make 45 shillings.
>4. If any person shall have called another "fox," he shall be sentenced to 3 shillings.
>5. If any man shall have called another "hare," he shall be sentenced to 3 shillings.
>6. If any man shall have brought it up against another that he have thrown away his shield, and shall not have been able to prove it, he shall be sentenced to 120 denars, which make 3 shillings.
>7. If any man shall have called another "spy" or "perjurer," and shall not have been able to prove it, he shall be sentenced to 600 denars, which make 15 shillings.

As for currency value, there are 40 denars to the shilling and probably 12 or 20 shillings to the solidus. If you're using fermi-estimated currency, think of the values above in silver pieces and copper pieces.

>>53989183
>The buttons correspond to 6, 10, 22, and 27
It randomizes from a span, actually. My first click on Large Town gave me a size 38 city.

That aside: does this save down in any convenient way? I don't want to have to copy the URL forever to use every time I want to look at a city in my game. If I can't get hardcopies this is effectively a neat toy for my purposes, not a campaign tool (unfortunately, I liked the look of most of the ones I got and the area tooltips were a nice touch).

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Please roll your charisma bonus in d50s to find out how many Indulgences you sold to the peasants this week.

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Does /osr/ prefer points of light, or points of darkness?

>>53990833
>no 22
>no 50

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>>53990849
50 I'd accounted for, but how the fuck did I miss 22?

This is why I do writing stuff and not math. One minute.

>>53989735
I'm not the author but for rolesrules the biggest thing he's done is a 52 page homebrew OSR game (plus some tables for themed content, tricks/problems generator, a new method of hexcrawl encounter generation, a few good dungeons/adventures, and a bit of game philosophizing). Turn that into a summary statement as you please.

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>>53990856
>>53990833
Fixed. My shame is immense. Soon I will commit honorable sudoku.

>>53990169
>As for currency value, there are 40 denars to the shilling and probably 12 or 20 shillings to the solidus. If you're using fermi-estimated currency, think of the values above in silver pieces and copper pieces.

What does Fermi have to do with coins?

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>>53990943
>What does Fermi have to do with coins?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_problem

10 denars / cp to the shilling / sp, 10 shillings / sp to the solidus / florin / gp

And 1 denar is ~= 1 modern dollar in purchasing power.

>>53990981
> 1 denar is ~= 1 modern dollar in purchasing power

Where do you get that idea? I've been looking for methods of measuring medieval and early modern purchasing power parity for a while. So far I've got a great resource for what medieval currency is worth relative to other medieval currencies, but I haven't been able to find more than a couple isolated and unsubstantiated lists of prices on completely non-representative goods from seemingly arbitrary years.

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Working on a 'eating good in the dungeon-hood' thing. I've got a mockup of the sort of material that's going to be in it and some formatting that I'm testing.

What would people like to see included in this, and what looks bad?

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>>53991020
Like I said, fermi estimation.

I can go down to the grocery store and get a small cooked chicken for 6 bucks. I can buy a fat capon in 1250 for 6 deniers.

http://machaut.weebly.com/money-in-the-middle-ages.html

So clearly, I'm on the right order of magnitude. It's not 100 deniers or 1. It's "about 10". The other values listed in that article (here, for example http://www.maisonstclaire.org/resources/pricelist/pricelist.html) are in line with that.

How much would a decent, adventuring quality horse cost? Well fucked if I know, but I can get a used car for $1,000 that'll last for years, so let's go with 10gp.

How much does a beer cost? Well it's fairly heavily taxed here and it's no longer a staple drink so I'm going to say 2cp.

And here's the thing. By these estimates, I might not be historically accurate but I am /really fast/ and, when I do checks and pull values from actual articles and do all the conversions, I'm rarely off by an order of magnitude. Basically, medieval currency is fucked. It's way too tedious to calculate out conversion rates. Just use this estimating system and you'll do just fine.

>>53991106
>http://machaut.weebly.com/money-in-the-middle-ages.html
>salt: 2 deniers / 5 pounds
Wait, what? Salt had become that cheap already in 1250?

>>53989715
>Stars Without Number
>mediocre

All the OSR systems are so similar that whining about mediocrity is plebian.

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>>53991220
Yup. It was never that expensive. Salt being "worth its weight in gold" and soldiers being "paid in salt" is a stupid myth.

Salt was valuable, but not that valuable. 5lbs is about 2kg. I can but modern, pure, iodized table salt for $1 per kg.

So my fermi estimation works really well here. I'm pleased.

Anyway, it's not that much salt. You'd need a lot more to survive the winter on preserved meats.

>>53985052

I would say that you're a retarded faggot but you seem to be well aware that you are indeed a retard and a faggot

>>53991315
>when you finally get to the bathroom after holding it in for an hour.jpg

>>53991315
>survive the winter on preserved meats
y tho
Wouldn't it be better to fatten the animal and then butcher it during winter? After all, the meat will stay fresh longer in the cold.

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>>53991457
>Wouldn't it be better to fatten the animal and then butcher it during winter? After all, the meat will stay fresh longer in the cold.

Can't feed it over the winter. Not enough land to produce fodder to keep your entire herd. You butcher it right before you run out of fodder, which is typically just before the really cold weather hits.

So a while back, an anon was working on a unified Moldvay B/X rulebook, and someone linked to a similar project elsewhere. Does Anon know what came of the first project, or, does anyone have a link to the latter? I could construct my own, but I am feeling especially lazy.

>>53991484
Somehow I forgot about the animal feed needing to exist. I think that's the most retarded I've ever been as an adult.

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>>53971425

I use exactly 3. Fighter, Rogue, and Mage.

I know some people dislike this system, but I enjoy it because it's really easy and distinct. I made sure to wrap up a ton of stereotypes in each class; Fighters are pretty classic and hard to fuck up, but Magicians and Rogues are a little more distinct and vary more per setting and system. In the end, I made Rogues more like a mix of ranged fighters, assassins, thieves, and rangers minus magic and animals to give them a full suite of abilities. Magicians use a lite Vancian system that I'm very proud of because of how easy it is. My Fighters are probably OP, we'll have to see.

I think most people, myself included, have a lot of high hopes for their homebrew systems and games, but we've got to give them some rigorous testing first. Only then can we know for sure.

>>53991106
>I can buy a fat capon in 1250 for 6 deniers.

That was the part I was asking about, not your weird estimation thing. Price lists I've been able to find are so incomplete and incomparable to modern goods you could drive a bus through the gaps.

>>53991576
I think the complete final version of BX got posted.

>>53991611
It's in his link, bro. The source for that price is
>Gies, Joseph and Frances. Life in a Medieval City. New York: HarperPerennial, 1981. (originally published 1969)

>>53991650
Thanks. Didn't know which of those books, if any, was it. The online site obviously wasn't because it only had like 5 items in it.

>>53991627
Guess I need to start trawling the archives, then.

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>>53991627
>>53991740
I have a copy sitting on my phone.
It was updated early last month which, I think, is the most recent version?
Not done though. It still needs some editing and still uses the original pages for references.

>>53991918
You are currently my favorite anon.

>>53991969
Do me a favor and favor the Anon who made it more.

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>>53991100
Anon, this is right up my alley. (I'm currently playing a Hobgoblin chef/adventurer).

In Numenera there are mutation tables that are sometimes used for weird food when consumed. I don't know how mechanics go for Swords & Wizardry, but in our game dungeon cooking is HIGHLY experimental. Aside from alchemists who search out exotic substances for their strange properties, few if any know anything about what side effects eating dungeon creatures will have on humanoids.

Most dungeon creatures are more straightforward in their physiology, some however are magical, and still others are otherworldly or paranatural. Different remains should have different effects.

In LotFP - Death Frost Doom there is a d100 table for the "Effects of the Purple Lotus". When we attempt to prepare magical or supernatural creatures there are risks involved (think of preparing a fugu blowfish). We do a food prep roll followed by a cooking skill check. Depending on how that goes we then roll on a table similar to the one in DFD.

So depending on how safe or risky fantasy/dungeon gastronomy is in your game, there may be need for more unwanted/deadly effects as well as positive side effects.

Anybody here actually use lots of random generation during the session as opposed to prior? What sorts of things do you generate? Why do you like doing it during the session as opposed to before?

>>53965864
For the online people you wanna add portrait city to the resources pastebin? http://portraitcity.blackwyrmlair.net/

>>53990849
PoL. More unknown places to go and explore.

>>53990849
PoL for hex crawls, PoD for everything else besides stories.
Not a fan of story-centric OSR campaigns, either works.

any fa/tg/uys with black hack?
i'd apprecify (you)

>>53984273
Use ability checks by rolling below your STR score with a d20, that way even a STR 14 pc have a higher chance of success than a STR 13. That "skill" system have made every litte point in the scores matter while my group is playing.

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>>53991669
>>53991650
>>53991611
Again, you can build your own methods based on those texts, but I think you'll find that they amount to my shitty fermi-estimation method in the end.

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>>53991589
It's OK, anon, you're on 4chan. A base retarded level is assumed. :)

>>53991100
This is some good shit but I'm too tired to properly evaluate it. All I can give you now for commentary is "yes more please."

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>>53993637
Worldbuilding feels masturbatory. I try to use tailored random generation to do all the brain-work. I use it for a character's race, stats, and background. It's optional to use it for class.

I also use it for politics and so-on. Doing it in-session allows me to tailor results to the group and storyline. Plus I'm lazy. Outside of game I'm too busy building these tools to implement them. It as to be in-game or not at all. But I try to generate everything I can using curated tables.

>>53993637
I roll on random tables a lot before sessions because I have a bunch of time to prepare and choose and consider everything I roll. I don't like rolling during session because it often stops the flow of the game.

>>53993637
I mostly roll for random encounters and events, and the occasional piece of dressing for dungeons and wilderness.

>>53990924
I'm not entirely sure how this table works. Why do you use the same roll for the committed offense and the indulgence? What does rolling for either one imply exactly?

>>53972603
There's a small group of really dedicated OSR types on sites like roll20. If you really want to play, there are ways

>>53995877
DMing and playing a game there starting today. Don't tell them I'm only allowing male and female gender.

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How do you differentiate different weapon types WITHOUT just doing a simple bonus damage/to hit vs different kinds of armor?

Like Swords, Axes, Maces, and Spears just as something simple and basic?

>>53997681
Currently working on a system of houserules that does so.

Weapons have an attack bonus, a damage, and a number of attacks. Greatsword, for instance, can make up to three attacks. Yes, there needs to be a boost in starting HP to compensate.

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>>53995874
It's got several uses

1) Characters from the First Estate can sell indulgences to people who need them
2) During downtime, they can roll [charisma bonus] times on the table and generate revenue that way
3) It's also a useful list of sins for the GM.

You roll a d50. On a 1-25, the sin is speculated (and revealed to you during confession). On a 26-50, the sin was actually committed, and you can charge a higher price.

>>53986229
Looks interesting, only complaint is that it seems very tailored to your campaign so I will need to adapt most of it. Still useful though.

Also, typo - one of the "second estate"s should be a "first estate".

>>53997681
The way that they've done in OD&D forever. You make them all work slightly differently. There are many takes on it, but here's a simple one for LotFP: http://www.lastgaspgrimoire.com/always-carry-protection/

>>53965864
Is there a trove with Wormskin zine? I've heard that Necrotic Gnome stuff is good, but I haven't read anything of it.

>>53998022
>During downtime, they can roll [charisma bonus] times on the table and generate revenue that way
Might I suggest you use a weight d100 roll instead of a d50 roll?
I expect fornication is more common than murder, etc.

I've been tasked to run a urban campaign while not given a lot of time to prepare for it.
I'd like to ask for suggestions for urban adventures that I can take apart and steal from.
You're my only hope, /osr/.

Does OSR not have feats? Seems kind of boring that way.

>>53999074
Reminder not to take the bait.

>>53999162
woah dude
woah
wtf

>>53999074
OSR isn't a system. It's a group of systems. Which one are you talking about in particular?

>>53998742
Vornheim and City-State of the Invincible Overlord get recommended on occasion.

>>53999263
I've rummaged through both already and stole what I could. It's good stuff.

>>53998742
Make something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_Geomorphs
For cwick fight-worthy street maps.

Maybe have a different set of tiles (with some overlaps) for each district?

>>53999074
Some games feature proficiencies or other such systems, or abilities that you gain based on background. Really depends.

Who noticed the surprisingly best melee weapon in lotfp? lance

>>53998742
Against the Wicked City has a bunch of interesting ideas, tables and the like for urban orientalist/eastern adventures.

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>>53998197
>Looks interesting, only complaint is that it seems very tailored to your campaign so I will need to adapt most of it.

I've tried to make it as generic as possible, under the circumstances. You can use it for medieval-ish games in any number of fictional settings, and while I based it off of 11th-14th century studies, you could probably go as far back as the 9th century without running into dire issues.

Typo is fixed.
>>53998713
That's a good idea. I'm thinking "roll 1d50, plus your charisma bonus of d20s" with the order adjusted.

>>53998742
Seconding Vornheim and I have to plug >>53989099 which I've been having a lot of fun with.

Focus on interesting individuals as much as dungeons/encounters. The tables in Vornheim are great for this.

So do you guys actually think that higher levels of character customization are a bad thing?

What's the deal with that?

>>54001430
It adds new layers to the balance with usually messy results, distracts you from the more organic and roleplay-heavy way of character development, and tends to be just a waste of time with the higher lethality of OSR.

>>54001430
>So do you guys actually think that higher levels of character customization are a bad thing?
>What's the deal with that?
Depends entirely on what you define as "customization". I want things fast, and I want things simple. I don't mind having a bunch of classes with interesting features, but I hate having to choose from a list of 100+ feats each time I level up, with a lot of trap options or feats that are just a numerical value.

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>>53999074

>>53999074

It has an infinite amount of feats, all made up on the spot by the player. It's awesome!

>>54002150
A cop-out. Most OSR games neither have the rules for any improvisation nor do they encourage them any. It's just the players and the DM trying to hide any flaws in their system.

>>54001430
I like customization when it happens in game.

I also like broad archetypes. Your wizard could be a Fire Mage, or a fairy tale style witch, or a savage shaman--just pick spells accordingly.

If you want your fighter to have once been a blacksmith, then we'll just agree that's the case, rather than statting that out mechanically.

Characters are all broadly similar in their mechanical capabilities, which means creative play can be more meaningful than the options you picked out of the rulebook.

>>53997681
I don't believe it's important to do so. There's a tactical choice between carrying a personal weapon (like an arming sword) or a lance (which requires both hands, and generally can't be carried around town or through a tight dungeon).

>>53998742
Yoon-suin has good tables, hooks and ideas for generating cities, political factions and intrigue. Its a weird slug man opium den setting but the tables work well enough for other places.

>>53998197
Worst case scenario, you can chisel parts off of it to build into your own thing (or to build your own thing off).

>>53997681
They're used for different things, so that's how you differentiate them.

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>>53997681
It's for Savage Worlds and maybe a bit more detailed than you want, but it could give you some ideas.

>>54001183
Well, for example - in order to be in the second estate, you need to be a knight, for all intents and purposes. You're using the GLOG, so that's fine for your campaign! But some people here (such as myself sometimes) use the seven class system, and three of those are demihumans. Sometimes even less. I've personally run a game with only two classes. Your "knight" and "fighter" would both be fighters there. So it would need to get rules for which characters can be part of the second estate, since you can't get it just from class. (Though the blog you link to does have an idea for that. Not sure if it's the one I'd use, though.)

>>54003315
Yeah, that's the plan, I think. And/or adapting my game to it, depending on the game.

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>>54004479
Sure, so just build a background table for each class or something:

Fighter - Second, Third, or Outlaw
Magic-User - Third in my system
Thief - First, Third, or Outlaw
Cleric - First
Elf - Second, Third, or Outlaw (this will vary a lot depending on how you have your game set up. It'd be kind of interesting to have an elf aristocracy in the Second Estate, if they'd come over like the Normans)
Dwarf - Third or Outlaw
Halfling - Third or Outlaw

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>>53995874
>>53998022
>>53998713
>>54001183

Ok, I've fixed this the table. You'll roll 1d50 + [charisma bonus] d20 times per week of downtime, assuming you're doing nothing but flogging indulgences to all and sundry.

Anyone want to give it a whirl?

Rolled 31 (1d50)

>>54005324
Sure, I'll bite.

>>54005357
Gotta throw a few more d20 rolls in there unless your charisma bonus is zero. You're an OK-looking fellow, anon. Got all your original teeth.

>>54005409
My current character has a charisma of 9.

He's also apparently an assassin.

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>>54005421
Nah, he's just speculating about it. 1-10 and 21-35 are just speculating about the act.

Maybe he's thinking of pushing his boss off a bridge. Maybe he's thinking of killing a fellow party member and stealing their coins. Whatever it is, it's preying on his mind. He told a priest.

He can pay 5sp or fast ever 3rd day for 2d6 months.

>>54002204
> It's just the players and the DM trying to hide any flaws in their system.
WOW

As literally the first person to ever reach this conclusion among the unwashed masses of the old school revival, you have enlightened me. I thought I had fun, but by uttering such unheard-of words of wisdom, you have shown me just how very wrong I was in doing so.

I will begin writing a comprehensive ruleset for improvisation RIGHT THIS MOMENT, in the way your blessed mind has conceived of it, so that no one ever has to bear the burden of improvising impromptu - if they want to improvise, they can just refer to my official Player's Improvisation Handbook, which will have detailed rules for every possible improvisation scenario.

The next project shall be the Dungeon Master's Homebrewing Guide, and no one will be allowed to use homebrew that is not in the book under penalty of a hundred lashings.

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>>54005654
Don't take the bait anon. That's what it's for. It's bait. To bait responses out of you. Now you look like a sad fish. Nobody wants to be a sad fish.

>>54005654
I mean, if you improvise so damn much, then what do you need the system for?

>>54004747
The activities I associate with Hobbits and the activities I associate with the first estate have /a lot/ of overlap.
Also, and don't your MUs also have a decent chunk of outlaws?

>>54005409
tg only supports one type on die per dicing

Still not really sure what you mean by
> You'll roll 1d50 + [charisma bonus] d20 times per week
you're missing a comma or something.
You've got two ideas "where to go on the chart" and "how many times to go to the chart", and your numbers blend together.

>>54005697 c >>53985461
You bet your ass we would play off the cuff if we thought we could do it without diminishing play.

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>>54006023
Right right. So roll 1d50. And then, also, roll a d20 [charisma bonus] times and read each of those results.

>>54005966
That's a good point. Hobbit monks for everyone!

And yeah, just missed putting in Outlaw under MUs. About half of mine are obligatory outlaws.

>>54002204

Nice bait mate. Troll/10.

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Ok, the Indulgence post is up: https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/06/osr-indulgences-and-clerical-services.html

Are your clerics feeling poor? Are your priests a little too devout? Inflict Indulgences upon your campaign setting.

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>>53991100
Ok, I've finally got time to review this. Sorry for the delay.

You've got a formatting error on the last part of Page 1, Column 1. Looks like the 2nd column is smushed into the 1st.

I really like your Preparation rules. Simple and effective.

>cave chickens, deep birds, dungeon turkey, goose of the Deep Roads

HONK HONK MOTHERFUCKERS IT'S TIME TO DIE

Anyway, it looks great so far. I'd definitely suggest magical effects.
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-dungeon-meat.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/some-other-classic-snacks.html

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>>54007345
As with just about all your posts, you've bungled the font.
It's extra bad though, because this time it's on a table.

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>>54007682
That's sadly deliberate. I had to shrink a few entries to a smaller font to avoid breaking the formatting.

Blogger's interface is... frustrating.

>>54007717
Would it kill you to learn a markup language, or does that somehow cut you off from the inter-connective tools of the blogosphere?

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>>54007750
Nah, you can directly paste in HTML. I'm just very, very lazy when it comes to that kind of thing. I'd rather spend an hour writing than an hour learning more than the basics. Sorry friend, I'd rather be badly formatted than slow.

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>>54007345
Yeh, the formatting is a work in progress.

And don't worry, I plan to add provisions for magic and toxic ingredients.

Also going to break it down into 5 biomes with a 1d20 table for each rather than just a single 1d100.

I'll post an updated version in the next thread, whenever that may be..

>>53979498
When I hear "inarticulate high school prose" and "gygax" everyone's always talking about AD&D. His article in SR wasn't that offensive. I did misconstrue what you said with thinking you were talking about the shit grapple rules in later editions, of which he had no part in, however.

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HOW DO I find old school roleplaying stuff thats printed

everything is like hundreds of dollars sometimes on ebay. i just want this fucking box set but its rarer than anything

>>54010543
Lulu print-on-demand.

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I have developed a mildly cunning system to go from this map (18 mile high hexes, yes, complain all you'd like)...

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>>54010802
to this! Duchies and Counties, with proper historical messy borders, ready to go, and with less than an hour's work.

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>>54010820
>>54010802
And for reference, the area it is designed to replicate/simulate/end up close to.

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The best borders are the crazy ones with clear definitions.
But is it really that hard to draw overlapping borders?

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>>54010932
Oh, not at all. The system I'm building/using just works on filling out hexes. At the end of it, you're sort of expected to fill in squiggly borders and stuff. But it also gives you a sense of the "core" areas vs "border" areas vs "outlying" areas, which most maps don't. Just looking at >>54010831, it's difficult to estimate a density of villages or whatever.

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>>54010998
Village density tends to map to terrain type, but whatever lubes your toboggan.

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>>54010932
Also, here you go, just for you.

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>>54011035
So let this also do your terrain mapping? 2 birds, one stone. Put down rivers and mountains ahead of time, but the rest -forests, marshes, fertile plains, blasted wastelands - all gets implied and set up at the same time as your political boundaries.

>>54011156
I suppose that works if you've only got small political divisions?
>all gets implied and set up at the same time as your political boundaries.
I'm partial to the reverse of that.

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>>54011184
>I'm partial to the reverse of that.
Ah yes, but see, it could even out either way. You could just call this system "fertile/undeveloped/waste" instead of "prosperous/spare/bare" or whatever. Same end result.

>I suppose that works if you've only got small political divisions?
Well, it's designed to produce counties and duchies, so yeah, small enough.

>>54011222
>counties and duchies,
Those don't seem like they'd have much to do with terrain?

Worst OSR settings?

>>54012642
Greyhawk.

>>54012642
Birthright.

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>>54012642

Yours.

Contrasted by mine, which is the best.

What would you say is the most useable/functional book layout you've seen?

My vote goes for either Stonehell or Maze of the Blue Medusa.

>>54014345
Can't think of any other ones right now, so seconding Stonehell.

>>53965864
Where in the trove is Van Richten's Guide to the Lich?

>>54014385
TSR -> Settings -> Ravenloft

>>54014416
Danke!

>>53991596
> a lite Vancian system
would you post it? sounds interesting.

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>>54011894
What are the natural boundaries? What are the rich areas and the poor areas, and why?

Terrain does play a role in these things, especially if the counties and duchies have fought against each other.

>>54010802
>I have developed a mildly cunning system
Well? What is it? Post your system, Anon!

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>>54014677

It's in the magic system of this book. In short;
>Magicians have spell slots, start with 1 at first level, get another at level 2 and every even level after (4, 6, etc.)
>No spell levels
>Unlimited daily casts
>Takes 10 minutes (1 turn) of study time to prepare a spell
>Every odd level you get spell power, which increases numerical effects of spells usually by +1

The idea behind this system is to keep the pressure behind a Vancian dungeon-crawling magic system, but eliminate a lot of the chaff. You never get high level Wizards in other systems with a MASSIVE amount of daily spells and huge power for each while other classes lag behind, and carefully picking and choosing your spells while you explore is crucial. If you wanted to, you could fill all your slots for combat and rail them off one at a time during a fight, but you'd have to spend a long time preparing them, which means more used up torches and wandering monster checks.

Spells just get stronger now instead of being broken into spell levels, and while the spells here are obviously very basic and mechanical, there is nothing saying these couldn't be adapted into something with non-numerical effects with growing spellpower.

I want to get into fantasy cartography as a hobby. Not just slapping some shit down on a hex grid, but making nice-looking maps that could be in a published campaign setting, pretty dungeon maps, etc.

I realize this is a big undertaking, but I intend to turn it into an ongoing hobby, so where do I start?

>>54015343
If your cunning system is using Real world coast line, bruh.
I already ran a game on the asian coast.

>>54015819
They're talking about the system for placing the fiefdoms, not the map outline itself.

>>54015769
This might be useful to you:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL83FKhfEDI1J0FJhhxP3PVzM-vtTgWPKU

>>54015769
Probably not here (not saying that in a REEE GET OUT way, it's just not our forte). Cartographer's Guild is the big online community for the mapper types -- you'd have to deal with namefags everywhere, of course, but that's going to be a requirement anyway if you want to sell your work, so might as well get used to it.

>>54015175
>especially if the counties and duchies have fought
That's a fair cop.

I was thinking of higher up government carving the territory into pieces.
I've probably got the wrong image in my head, but I think of Africa.

>>54016352
African and North American borders are infamous for having been drawn up entirely on paper by detached geographers and diplomats, though. You never see that shit before effectively the 18th century, before rationalism, before large scale colonization. Hell, even the East Coast of the US has borders drawn along natural boundaries.

Even modern France has department borders based on natural boundaries, and pre-Revolutionary France... well. There wasn't a straight line in the country.

is there a legit reason why monks generally aren't allowed to benefit from AC bonus from DEX and to hit bonus from STR?

>>54017261
Probably just because they get their own equivalents.

Does anyone have good Bazaar random encounters and tables?

is there a legit reason to run the monk class when psionic fighting-men are a thing?

>>54017261
I don't remember that at all. Is that in OD&D, AD&D, or BECMI?

Favorite 2nd edition character sheets?

About to start a new campaign. I have the Imlay sheet which looks nice but is a little compact.

>>54018049
Why not make your own sheets that fit the aesthetic of the campaign? Shouldn't be too hard and would be kickass for immersion.

>>54019426
I have done stuff like that before for other games and might if I can't find a sheet I really like, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel every campaign.

>>53986267
Does that mean if for any reason your Wis is raised from 13 to 14 your finger grows back?

>>54021024
Still focusing on that finger, huh?

Picture me brandishing a knife menacingly.

>>54012642

Dragonlance

how do i start with the fantasy trip?

>>54022159
By leaving this thread. TFT is off topic for /osrg/.

>>54022189
I didn't know, but i will not leave i will just submerge in to anonymity and you cant do anything about it muahahaha. bye

>>54022388
Oh noooooooo that's fine.

Sorry if I came off harsh, breh. We've had some problems with a recurring Fantasy Tripfag in here who kept coming in solely to lose his shit at finding the rest of us actually like D&D.

Does anyone have a list of weird cults and religions I can use for weird street cults?

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>>54015819
I gots to finish writing it first!

>>54015819
Yup. Always handy to cheat.

>>54016071
Either or.

>>54016352
>I was thinking of higher up government carving the territory into pieces.
Not terribly medieval. Borders are messy before maps become a real thing.

>>54022495
This seems up your alley. Good blog in general from what I've read, if I may shill for a moment.

http://www.occultesque.com/2017/01/1d100-cults-50-weird-and-50-sinister.html?m=1

Does ACKs have some sort of info on Elemental attributes? Does it do anything noticeable at all?

>>54022427
No problem my friend

>>53984273

Make a check by rolling two d20s against the relevant ability score. If both d20s roll under the score, it's a success; if one of them is under and one is over, it's a partial success. If both are over the score, it's a failure.

>>54022998
That's pretty much up my alley. Thanks a bunch, anon!

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Wait until the thread falls off to jump ship.

>>54024648

>>53987763
This is a great resource for planning megadungeons: http://www.kjd-imc.org/hall-of-fame/setting-design/node-based-megadungeon/

>>53971425
>What classes do you have in your game?
Warrior, Sorcerer, Thief.

>Do you think more or less classes make players more creative?
Definitely less. Having only a few classes forces players to differentiate their characters in other, more interesting ways.

>Do you make a new class if a player wants to be something very specific?
As a general principle, nope.

>Do you use ability score requirements?
Nope. If you want to be a Warrior with 8 Strength and 5 Constitution, knock yourself out.

>How important and distinct are classes in your game?
Very distinct, not especially important. The classes are mainly there for niche protection; most of what makes the characters special/unique is their equipment and the shit they go through.