/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>53929772
>Would you ever play a game set in Asia?
Sure, as long as it uses the normal rules and not Kuei-Jin and such.

>>53929772
>Would you ever play a game set in Asia?
Asia sounds pretty boring. American games only plz.

>>53929772
Read a W:tF actual play set in Hong Kong once, seemed pretty cool.

Thousand Years of Night is out.

>>53929993
hand it over then nigga

>>53929993

Post it!

>>53930335
>>53930452

I don't have it, I'm just saying it's out. I'm not even going to buy it, I'm not running a Vampire game.

Sacred cows likely to see slaughtering block in 5e:

>ravnos
>tzimisce
>assamites
>giovanni
>salubri
>samedi
>daughters of cacophony
>kiasyd
>gargoyles
>sabbat as playable faction
>paths of enlightement
>Tremere
>Lasombra
>golconda being achievable by PCs
>potential for crossovers
>fun

>>53929993
>Thousand Years of Night

Judging from the Table of Contents on Drivethru, it includes crossover material or advice for every major splat except for Werewolf.

Did woofs do something to offend the Vampire developers or are they never in the same league as an elder?

>>53930586
Will tell you when I get there.

So I want to run a Sabbat Game for my new group who mostly do D&D shit. So beyond how to start, with a shovel to the skull and them waking up recalling unlive burial and tearing their way out of the ground and destroying some other poor fuckers in a frenzy, i'm stumped on where to start.

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Has anyone tried running a WoD/CofD game using another system? I don't mean Pathfinder or some shit, but probably something generic (Fate, Gurps, etc.) As it is I really like the setting but having used the mechanics I don't think they align very well with the thematic philosophy of the game (I think this is less true in the newest edition, but still).

>>53930585
>fun
You are probably right. Fuck you, nuWW.

Also, where can I get the M20 Book of Secrets?

>>53930629
>i'm stumped on where to start.

Once upon time, a Sabbat pack happened upon Girl Scout camp...

Extra fun: the pact is composed of Nosferatus, Samedis and Gargoyles.

>>53930586

In all likelihood, it's either a matter of wordcount or the Werewolf dev being too busy.

>>53930787
Perhaps the freelancer who wrote werewolf part decided not to be a cuck and asked for fair salary.

>>53929993
Are the Elder Disciplines any good?

>>53930826

>fair salary
>the concept of a salary at all, let alone fair
>the tabletop writing industry

Oh you sweet summer child.

>>53930877
UNBRIDLED FORCE
(VIGOR •••••, DOMINATE ••)
Such strength as Kindred of many centuries has exceeds the
boundaries of his own flesh and bones, begging to be unleashed
on the unsuspecting mortal world. Through the twin irresistible
forces of his physique and personality, his will imposes itself
on the world effortlessly.
This Devotion costs 4 Experiences to learn.
Cost: 5 Vitae
Dice Pool: None
Action: Reflexive
Duration: Scene
For the duration, the vampire may perform feats of raw
strength at a distance by simply exuding force with his gestures.
He can push, pull, throw, or lift any object within (Blood
Chapter Three: What We've Learned Along the Way 77
Potency x 10) yards/meters that he normally could without touching it, so long as he can perceive it, and can make Brawl attacks the same way. No fine manipulation is possible, but he can use his Vigor Discipline to increase his Strength as normal for the purposes of this Devotion. He still must have at least one hand free to direct this force. The vampire may not use this power at anything less than his full strength — he can’t gently slide a bookcase aside, deposit a person lightly onto the ground, or pull his punches.

>>53929772
Just finished a Lost game set in Tokyo, was fun having my oni thug break faces in.

Also, would be interested playing a game set in India.

>>53930951
Nice, stupid super powers that don't really do anything are my favorite.

>>53931488
I have you covered
SPONTANEOUS IGNITION
(CELERITY •••••, RESILIENCE •)
The vampire touches her target, causing minute vibrations so
fast as to be imperceptible. In seconds, her victim ignites, while
her Resilience protects her from the same fate.
This Devotion costs 4 Experiences to learn.
Cost: 6 Vitae
Requirement: The vampire must touch her target.
Dice Pool: Dexterity + Athletics + Celerity - Stamina
Action: Contested; resistance is reflexive
Roll Results
Dramatic Failure: The vampire sets herself on fire.
Failure: The vampire’s victim feels an uncomfortable heat,
but does not combust.
Success: The vampire’s victim catches fire at the torch level
for both size and heat (see Vampire: The Requiem Second
Edition, p. 103). For each success rolled beyond the result of the
victim’s resistance roll, move either the size or intensity of the
flame up on the chart by one. The flames burn for a number
of turns equal to the vampire’s Blood Potency, but the victim
can try to extinguish them sooner by taking instant actions to
smother them or put them out with water or a fire extinguisher.
Each instant action spent combating the fire reduces it in size
by one level on the chart. If it burns for more than one turn, it
can ignite flammable objects in the victim’s vicinity.
Exceptional Success: The vampire enjoys the benefits of a
larger and/or hotter flame, as above.

>>53931543
>Dramatic Failure: The vampire sets herself on fire.
If I ever failed the roll I'd take the beat every time.

>>53931543
Any interesting Protean devotions, Anon?

>>53931589
BONES OF THE MOUNTAIN
(PROTEAN ••••, RESILIENCE •••,
VIGOR •••)
The Gangrel who lets his Beast run in wild places and sleeps in graves of loose earth for centuries comes to know the patience and endurance of the natural world, which far outstrip those of even the oldest Kindred. Millennia of wind and weather may erode the mountain, but they’ll never bring it crashing down. With this Devotion, the vampire becomes the stone itself.
This Devotion costs 5 Experiences to learn.
Cost: 3 Vitae, plus 3 per additional turn
Dice Pool: Stamina + Survival + Protean
Action: Instant
Roll Results
Dramatic Failure: The vampire convulses with the pain of an uncontrolled change, transforming into a motionless statue in a contorted pose. She can’t move, act, or speak until her next turn, and must roll to resist frenzy when the effect wears off.
Failure: No transformation takes place.
Success: The vampire transforms her body into animate stone, which lasts until she stops paying 3 Vitae per turn. For the duration, she benefits from all active effects of Resilience and Vigor each turn without additional Vitae expenditure, and adds her Protean dots to her effective Resilience. All her unarmed attacks deal lethal damage. If she takes lethal damage in her rightmost Health box, she may reflexively activate Unmarked Grave at no cost regardless of the material’s Durability.
Exceptional Success: The vampire also becomes immune to the Knocked Down Tilt for the duration.

There is also one that lets you turn into mustard gas

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>Oh, don't worry Anon, VtES is chill, there's no nasty combos like you have in M:tG

>>53930586
>Thousand Years of Night
>crossover material or advice for every major splat except for Werewolf.

Woofs always get screwed.

>unacceptable Vampire Privilege

>>53931948
Material on other splats in antagonist section is mostly story and ST advice anyway

>>53931972

Woofs don't make good story material?

>werewolf tears...

A Thousand Years of Shite

I want the vampiric powers that kills mages

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>>53932016
Vamps and Woofs are forever friends

>>53932050
>I want the vampiric powers that kills mages

I believe Metaplot Armor(tm) was only available in old WOD Masquerade.

>>53932056
>Vamps and Woofs are forever friends

Vamps are never really friends with anyone, even other vampires.

>the undead can never be trusted

>>53932164
True. Antagonists section describes some sort of creature called Inamorata that appears to vampire as his loved one and if drinks her blood he goes crazy

what does the crossover section say regarding Vamps and Mages?

>>53932232

Without even having read ATYoN, I have no doubt it provides further evidence of the need to eradicate all vampires. They are a pox on humanity.

>be buddies with a mage
>call for help if faced with a vampire infestation
>be thankful for mage supremacy

>>53932232
Innamorata (with 2 n) is an Italian word to describe a female person that is in love.

Surely they have fantasy on WW.

>>53932317
Ech nothing particularly interesting. Surprisingly it focuses on Tremere and such and idea of stealing vampire souls for power and immortality

>>53932024
doobie boop

>>53932317
Some mages find Vampires to be something mundane science can't explain. So some are known to try to dissect vampires to see what makes them tic, take their vitae to further fuel their powers and even steal the power of elders that are in torpor.

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>>53927118
>Because vampires, with their mortal and sleeper allies, could wipe out mages

Nope. In an all out Crossover war. Mages win.

>>53932554

whoa :O does it explicitly mention the Arcana interacting with the Vampires?
Something like "Death 4 can steal vitae and turn it into mana" or something like that?

>>53932721
Whole crossover section is one page per splat mate. And half of it is fluff piece

The first time I saw Dominic, he was a boy of three, chubbycheeked
and quiet, his dark eyes following my every move as
I doted on his mother. I saw him often as he grew, and as he
was a smart child, one day he asked me how it was that he grew
older and his mother grew grayer, but I never seemed to change.
He went away to school, his world travels financed by the coin
his mother earned running my household and minding my affairs
during the day. I intended to name Dominic her successor, but
he never returned home, instead remaining abroad to study.
When next I saw him, a man in his late thirties, I spied the glow
of a mage’s nimbus about him, and wondered what the sudden
narrowing of his eyes meant when he looked at me.
He should be well into his nineties now, but doesn’t look a
day over forty. I can no longer see his aura. I’ve heard whispers
about him, how people around him tend to go missing. Or
how, when they’re found, they’re shells of their former selves.
Dominic visited a few months ago. I discovered his mother’s
ledger open on her long-abandoned desk, pages torn out. They
held the names of my colleagues. The name of my childe. I’ve
not heard from her in weeks.
A friend of mine in the Lancea et Sanctum looked into him,
and came back to me with a single word. One that makes my
cold blood go even colder: Tremere.

>Avatar is the guiding force that drives you toward enlightenment. Arete is the mage's actual power. With Manifest Avatar/Avatar Companion, your Avatar might be your sworn nemesis. You would still be able to cast magick fine.

>>53932556
>But would someone else using your body? Because you didn't actually address anything said.

Dominate 5 doesn't work on supernaturals, period. If the Mage is mundanely or magically persuaded to do something, he could use his magick just fine.

The basic assumption that the Avatar could cockblock a mage from casting without actually abandoning him is ridiculous.

>>53930831

And all of those specific simulations of the Spheres can/will eventually be outdone by superior improvisations and inherent tweaking capabilities.

>>53932771
Anon, mages are mortals, it was confirmed even by DaveB some threads ago.

>>53929772
https://blog.white-wolf.com/2017/06/15/v5-pre-alpha-the-curtain-rises/
Please change the cliffnotes to the actual pre-alpha link for the next threads.

>>53930629
I would suggest giving them a mentor with a bit of authority who gives them a shot to prove themselves. E.g. there's a Toreador that's causing Sabbat trouble by pulling strings in the mortal world, she is hosting a small and posh gallery opening downtown at this address. If you make it, I'll show you the ropes.

If they do, he sees a bit of potential in them and slowly starts talking grand scheme of things and such.

>>53932824
>Avatar
>Arete

Dave has no power here

>>53932715
So the Seers would win in a global war in two days according to DaveB.

Why are they so lazy?

>>53932824
Guess that's an edition difference issue, then. V20 specifies mages as supernatural creatures.

>>53932932
Dominate 5 speaks of a "Mortal" target
Mages are mortal in all sense of the word.
If you want to interpret it in a way that makes them not mortal, you are free to do so, but that's not the objective truth, we can blame it on the doubtful definition.

>>53932985
Humans can still be supernatural. Mages in Ascension are arguably more human than their Awakening counterparts.

>>53932980
This was a question on "what happens if Sleepers don't trigger Paradox."

>>53933016
>>53933011
>Vampires cannot possess one another in this fashion, as even the weakest Kindred’s mind is strong enough to resist such straightforward mental dominance. Only through a blood bond can one vampire control another to this degree. Supernatural creatures also cannot be possessed in this way, although ghouls that have drunk from the vampire using Possession can.

>>53932715
This actually sounds like a cool setup for a game, if you take some liberties with it: Play as underground Cabals of resistance fighters, struggling to get by and take back anything they can from the Seers

Maybe give the Oracles have a bigger play in keeping the Exarchs busy so everything doesn't just get fucked immediately

The hardest parts would be justifying any hope left to keep people fighting, but hey, its a World of Darkness after all

>>53933112
Which edition is this?

>>53933112
Remember that time when LaCroix used Dominate on you?

Yeah, writers can never agree on anything.

>>53932761
>A friend of mine in the Lancea et Sanctum looked into him,
>and came back to me with a single word. One that makes my
>cold blood go even colder: Tremere.

Damn, those mages are real assholes...

>>53933182
But when he used Dominate on you that was a lower power, not the Rank 5 one

>>53933207
What i find weird is that said tremere was around for quite some time(elder mentions he should be 90 now) and he was staying around the area if he kept running into each other. How did no mage in the local consilia noticed

>>53933165
V20

>>53933182
he doesn't possess you? He gives you a command, which is something that works theoretically with every creature with a rational brain

>>53929772
Kindred of the East can make for fun games, so yes. Played a wu that worked in Chongquing and tried (without much success) to monitor the influx of other supernaturals

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>>53930671
my group uses a homebrew system for our game. It works well but we have a really good dynamic so are less reliant on rules and stats and prefer to just tell a story together. GURPS would probably work the best because I agree that the mechanics of CoD and WoD are not great. In fact I think CoD is worse

>>53932985
mages have never been sups.

>>53933373
Gurps. Kek, gtfo.

>>53933443
How does that make you feel? Humans being more powerful than actual monsters?

:^)

>>53932985
page number now or stfu

>>53933373
you are perfectly welcome to be wrong

p380 v20
>Since mages are mortal, they often
hide in plain sight, conducting their business daily until they are ready to take on the Kindred.

People spewing false info should hang themselves.

>>53933636
it took like 2 seconds to txt search mage and check facts....

>>53933636
mortal =! nonsupernatural. It just means you can die.

>>53933636
normie in life

batman in their spare time

mages yeah

>>53933611
>>53933443
Doesn't >>53933112
>Supernatural creatures also cannot be possessed in this way, although ghouls that have drunk from the vampire using Possession can.
pretty directly state that even ghouls count as supernatural creatures? Ghouls, who can go back to being totally mortal if they don't get their fix.

>>53929993
Has anyone bought this yet? I'm trying to figure out if it's worth spending money on. If it's another Secrets of the Covenants I won't bother.

>>53933715
X20 is retarded? those things have never been true in any other edition.

>>53932715
If the Seers and the Exarchs outright win if the Abyss closes, why do the Exarchs want the Seers to maintain the Abyss?

v20 also says " A mage is no
match for a vampire in a straight-up fight, however,
so wizards often lay traps and scheme, much like the
vampires themselves"

who the fuck wrote this?

>>53933862
Probably because closing the Abyss would result in more Mages awakening

V20 pg 135.
>Aside from perceiving emotional states, vampires use Aura Perception to detect supernatural beings. The colors in Kindred auras, while intense, are quite pale; mage halos often flare and crackle with arcane power; the race of shapeshifters has strikingly bright, almost frantic, auras; ghosts have weak auras that flicker fitfully like a dying flame; and faerie creatures’ radiance is shot through with capricious rainbow hues.

V20 pg 236.
>Thereafter, the mirror reflects images of other supernatural creatures’ true forms — werewolves appear in their hulking man-wolf shapes, magi glow in a scintillating nimbus, ghosts become visible (in the mirror), and so on.

M20 pg 330.
>Mages and other supernatural creatures

M20 pg 621.
>mages, vampires, spirits, and other supernatural creatures

>>53933636
Here's the rope, anon. You know what to do you, having tied the noose yourself.

>>53933995
they have sup powers. are still mortal.

>>53933867
They wrote that with the perspective that mages were using Discipline rules, not actual Sphere rules.

It's better for crossover so they don't steamroll over everything.

>>53933828
>Aside from perceiving emotional states, vampires use Aura Perception to detect supernatural beings. The colors in Kindred auras, while intense, are quite pale; mage auras often flare and crackle with suppressed power; werebeasts have strikingly bright, almost frantic, halos; ghosts have weak auras that flicker fitfully like a dying flame; and faerie creatures' radiance is shot through with rainbow hues.
Straight from Vampire: the Masquerade Revised. See >>53933636

Mages have always been supernatural beings.

>>53934074
still mortals.

>>53934074
>Mages have always been supernatural beings.

They're humans abusing magic. How are they not supernatural beings?

>>53933995
Mages also have an auric sense about them

More so in Awakening

>>53933295
>What i find weird is that said tremere was around for quite some time(elder mentions he should be 90 now) and he was staying around the area if he kept running into each other. How did no mage in the local consilia noticed

One must always remember that within the context of any other CofD gamelines besides Mage, if mages are to be included, it must be assumed that they are completely and utterly retarded oblivious, otherwise the setting falls apart. When playing Requiem, vampires simply have plot armor.

Also, the Tremere have centuries of experience eluding other mages.

>>53934074
Nobody is saying they're not mortal by default. They grow old and die. But they are supernatural creatures that cannot be possessed by Dominate 5, as per >>53933112

Similarly, mages are supernatural creatures when it comes to Discipline effects that give lower difficulty or let supernatural beings break their effects with Willpower.

>>53934175
They're wrongly assuming that humans can't be supernatural creatures.

The Avatar itself just isn't human.

In both WOD and CofD, mages are totally human, unequivocally supernatural, and absent magical shenanigans, also mortal. This state is also true for minor templates like psychics.

It's amazing how much Masquerade writers will pamper their vampires out of jealousy of the other gamelines.

it's also ironic that the lore behind Masquerade is what caused the metaplot to fall apart, whilst Ascension and Apocalypse mingled quite nicely.

>>53933995
that wasnt hard now was it. I couldnt care less but backing shit up with facts is where its at.

now excuse me while im tying this knot.

Is A Thousand Years of Night as crappy as Secrets of the Covenants?

Is ATYofN even close to an Imperial Mysteries-equivalent for Requiem?

>>53934234
vampire metaplot was fine. demon lore backed it up just nice. mage and werewolf have always been meh.

>>53932761
>A friend of mine in the Lancea et Sanctum looked into him,
>and came back to me with a single word. One that makes my
>cold blood go even colder: Tremere.

Why didn't the Tremere kill the vampire?

Have the Tremere gone soft and cuddly?

>>53934305
Vampires have no souls so why would the Tremere be bothered? Cant eat that shit..

>>53934265
without evening seeing it i can say:

yes
no

>>53934352

In the quoted fluff, the Tremere was implied to have been hunting other vampires, including the childe of the author, likely to perform unspeakable experiments.

I guess the vampire is just lucky he found the one sentimental Tremere.

is it me or are Charms not in Mage 2e?

>>53934485
Are they lucky?

>>53932980
Because they spend their time fighting each other. If the seer's had even a simulacrum of teamwork they'd roll over the pentacle without much effort.

Instead it's wizard drive-bys, cocaine, and vampire hookers.

Can someone share any of the historical bits from Thousand Years of Night, or maybe the new Covenant?

>>53934395
These are also dumb ass Tremere liches, for the record. Not vampires.

>>53934234
>It's amazing how much Masquerade writers will pamper their vampires out of jealousy of the other gamelines.
It's amazing how people forget who was written first.

>>53934485
I think 'Hung Spell' under Time 2 is what you're looking for. Not too sure I haven't played ascension in years.

>>53934273
>t. vampfag

>>53934576
2e is Awakening, not M20. Set Time Trigger is Time 4 to keep a spell from going off instantly.

>>53934576
Ascension was more prep heavy than Awakening. Far more held/hung options being a given.

It's rather simple in Awakening. Time 2 / Fate 2 is all you need.

>>53934630
Time is ironically the least practical way of holding spells. At least in Ascension.

>>53934565
Oh you mean wizards in Ars Magica?

>>53934688
You cannot be this retarded

>>53934712
Q: Where did the Tremere come from....

>>53934745
They came from two different gamelines in two different setting written from two different game companies than merged later on and you are double the autist.

>>53934788
Ars Magica came before Masquerade

Deal with it vampfaggot

Since we're talking about Mage. Has anybody used imbued/enhanced/artifacts. The rules in the awakening 2e are kind of confusing.

>>53934826
They are not the same setting.
If this is bait of the kind "Ha, anon took my bait and now he thinks that I'm completely retarded, my plan succeeded!"
Then good job on your pretending to be a complete retard.

>>53934905
by confusing you mean shit?

Dont bother with them, to build anything that can do anything you'll be rolling a chance dice to get it to work.

>>53934826
whats ars magica got to do with WoD? oh, nothing. ok then. carry on.

>>53934926
Er the Tremere in Ars magica in the order of hermes are the same Tremere in Masq faggot.

The order of hermes is the same order of hermes in both game lines turd? WW owned both at some point and made them the same setting....

>>53934965
no. they're not the same setting. ars magica has tons of shit that aint in WoD. Just because they have one group of mages in common doesnt make them the same setting.

Look at all the vampfags trying to prove vamp supremacy badly.

>>53934905
>>53934931

The imbued item and artifact are badly in need of a FAQ or errata. We might see some additional material in Signs of Sorcery, but I'm not confident, and if so, the book doesn't appear anywhere near ready for release.

>MFW I release DaveB will never released a Mage FAW

>>53935004
Signs of sorcery is vapourware. Shed a tear and forget about it.

>>53934998
all i see is serious case of mage induced autism.

>>53934998
>vamp supremacy

... over small human children and the elderly and disabled.

>laughing mages and woofs<

>>53933898
And if they all then join the Seers or die horribly, why does that matter?

OPP pdfs have no watermarks, why hasnt 1000 Nights been released into the wild yet you fucking bastards.

>>53930738
>Also, where i can get the M20 Book of Secrets?

Here
https://www.sendspace.com/file/apabnr

Anyone can share thousand years of night?

>>53935089
Every Mage is a problem because the Exarchs want to be the only things controlling the Supernal Realms. Every Mage is a potential rebel, and a rebel that might be able to make it to the big leagues of returning to the Supernal for a second time. Every Archmage is a threat to their dominance.

Picture the Exarchs as the most paranoid and powerful dictators ever. Now imagine there was this type of threat that could potentially go nuclear at any second, destroying work that transcends time in the amount of work it took and potentially ruining your death grip on the power you have and already have to share with 9 other fuckers who are only your allies of convenience and who you only work together with because if you didn't then nobody would have minions.

>>53935208
Exarch X is the Exarch of chickens, he doesnt anybody else ascending and fighting him for it now does he..

>>53935208
Don't forget the 11th whose gone silent for as long as anyone can remember and whose agenda and power is unknowable and unimaginable even by the standards of an exarch.

What's the new Covenant?

>>53935310
Or worse: Intruding on his territory

Theoretically if there are more Archmages there could be more Exarchs vying for positions that could sap strength away from the big 10+1

Or worse: MORE ORACLES FIGHTING FOR MORE AWAKENINGS

>>53930629
>>53932926

I would also introduce them to what being in the Sabbat really means early on, set them up for a Blood Feast celebrating the crowning of a new Archbishop or somesuch:

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Auctoritas_Ritae

If you really need to drive home the point that they aren't in Kansas anymore.

>>53930759

Check your Bad End fantasies at the door, amigo.

Killing children is absolutely horrific, and it's your job as storyteller to make sure the players understand that.

>>53935208
>Every Archmage is a threat to their dominance.
Based on the stuff Dave was talking about, no more non-Tetrarch Archmages are ever going to be a thing.

>>53936268
Just like there was supposed to be no more mages: The Symbol of "There is always a Chance" is rather resilient

>>53936244
fuck off, kids are the worst. Little bastards.

>>53936244

I would also add that killing on that scale would bring federal-tier law enforcement and Hunters down on the coterie in short order, even in WoD.

>>53936171
Shovelheads -> Enter Mentor -> Chance to prove yourself (mission against a few ghouls, some mortals and a social Camarilla member) -> Creation Rites -> Feast -> Sabbat politics/general world explanation -> Baby Pack's First Quest (some more well-prepared cammies who will also try to manipulate the party into joining their side).

Should be a good primer to VtM Sabbat.

>>53936407
The sabbat dont shit where they eat, so im assuming that this is in Cam territory and they will be long gone by the time the feds show up n shit, and it'll be the cams problem to solve?

>>53930585
What makes you think any of that?

>>53930951
It's like Flick from OWoD.

>>53936612
Cos they all retarded shit

>>53936699
>fun
>retarded

>>53936421

The first mission could be to capture some kine to use for the blood feast. Keep the coterie in the dark as to what the captives will be used for until it is too late. Good test of their characters: give them some options for victims. A single mother walking home after dark, an old rich man sleeping on a park bench, two young lovers parked by the beach, etc etc.

>>53936699
that's just, like, your opinion, man

>>53936389

It's too bad your parents didn't think as you do, if you catch my drift.

Do you guys let your players use alternate arcana to raise skills if it makes sense?

e.g. Using Life magic to improve brawl or intimidation, Fate to improve firearms or subterfuge, etc.

>True Fae treat Beasts with deference and cordiality
>Antediluvian vamps respect Beasts
>the God Machine straight up fears Beasts
Truly they were Mary: The Sueing

>>53938385
no

might aswell let then fuck your wife too

>>53938479
Umm, where did you even get all of this?

Antediluvians aren't even a CofD product.

>>53938562
I'm surprised 1000 years of night didn't appropriate the term.

>>53938562
there might be pre flood vampires

>>53938625
>pre flood vampires

That would require the CofD to accept a biblical historical view, something explicitly rejected in the setting.

Ain't no Antediluvians in Requiem. Stop getting your hopes up for an Archmage tier Template.

It's not like they could even properly challenge Archmages in old WoD.

>>53938809
need 1000 nights to make sure of that

>>53938809
Sorry to burst your bubble but 6-10 Disciplines are easily a match for the Archspheres.

>>53938870
1000YoN isn't going to be a tier 4 guide for vampires, as repeatedly stated by the devs.

Imperial Mysteries is all we have for the moment.

>>53938809
A vampire from either Irem or the time period before the gauntlet fell could technically be refereed to as an Antediluvian fairly easily given the symbolism of a flooded destroyed earth.

>>53938876
You're diving into dangerous waters, Anon.

This has been done before.

>>53938876
what are you smoking...

Well I can see this thread is about to go to shit.

EVACUATE THE THREAD

off to /gif be back soon

Anyone got 1000 Years of Night yet? I'm curious about the 'elder Devotions' and such.

There's a crossover section in this new elder book.

I want to know more of this

>>53939157
Crossover is universally garbage and you know it.

Has anyone here ever played a crossover game that was anything but?

>>53939157
Someone should copy and paste the Mage part of it. I'm curious too.

Some were left out though. Like werewolves.

>>53938385
I only let them increase skills via Mind, and perhaps Time if you're re-writing your backstory.

However they can boost themselves with Conditions if appropriate, such as using Life to boost intimidation, athletics, and brawl through provoking biological reactions and so forth.

And Fate can already grand universally applicable Boons and improve equipment bonuses, so I don't really see much point letting them improve skills as well.

Did M20 drop the Lions of Zion craft?

>>53939157
It's one page per splat.

>>53939238

seconding - what does the mage part say besides the fluff text?

>>53938385
I do. It's never been an issue.

>>53939440
>It's one page per splat.

... except werewolves.

>woofs get no respect

>>53939440
Copy and paste it.

NAO

>>53938876
Someone's never heard of Big Bang Bubble Gum...

How has the nWoD/CofD Werewolf the Forsaken 2e changed over the first edition. Are the changes as significant and positive as those of MtAw 2e?

>>53939879
Considering they're actually good in combat now? I'd say so.

>>53932824
M20 states otherwise, and Dave B's word means nothing for the nWoD mage lines, he ain't running that show, too lost in his magic world to write anything new, so he instead just rehashes the same old ignorant new age shit he centered his magical world life around.

>>53940094
>DaveB's word means nothing for the nWoD mage lines
Despite the fact that he quoted the writer's bible at us, and is still the primary dev for the entire gameline?

>>53933011
Didn't someone official already state that all the splats are "mortals" for the sake of disciplines like this?

>>53940094
>Dave B's word means nothing for the nWoD mage lines

Are you confusing DaveB with Phil Brucato?

DaveB is the developer for CofD Mage, and his word means quite a bit concerning his own game line.

>>53940094
v20 says mages are mortal m20 says they are supernatural.

Nothing stopping one from being both.

>>53939879
they are better at combat now, not as essence hungry, and their powers scale a lot better

>>53934485
Forged by Dragon's Fire is revised and has everything about charms, talismans, etc.
>>53938876
>10 dice of soak can battle with unmaking reality on a whim
Holy shit dude, you know nothing of spheres

>>53940120
Looked it up, he's simply saying that they shouldn't by Mage style guidelines, not that they don't. And intent there is rather clear to be talking about normal humans, not any splat with the ability to die. By that definition it works on everything that's not a Mummy.

>>53940177

In both M20 and Awakening, mages are mortal, supernatural, and most importantly, supreme.

>>53938479
>the God Machine straight up fears Beasts
Where did you get that from? The GM is happy building Infrastructure in the Primordial Dream. Its the Beasts who are unnerved by it.
>Antediluvian vamps respect Beasts
Wrong gameline.

Not defending Otherkin: the Sue, but this is just a bad post.

>>53940211
dominate 5 in requiem 2e doesnt have the "doesnt work on supernatural" nerf in it anyway this is purely a oWoD argument and therefore who cares.

>>53940364
Mind 2 lets you defend against stuff like that.

>>53940559
defenses can fail. I believe Mind Shielding only lets you Clash of Wills it

>>53940609
>implying anybody can match the will of the Awakened

>>53940559
Thats obvious, the point is that masqfags and ascensiofags were arguing if their dominate works on mages because it cant be used on supernatural thing.

Obv awakening and 2e better rules mean we dont have that argument because fans of CofD are refined individuals and not raging homobeasts like oWoD fags.

>>53940143
Holy christ I am...

My bad, sorry, just worked a 26 hour workday.

>>53940671
Requiem players know they are the lowest powered splat.

>>53940689
Teeeheee

>>53940682

Phew, DaveB been a little cantankerous recently, but even on his worst day he's nowhere near Phil's cosmic level of douchiness.

>DaveB's still in the doghouse until he releases the FAQ and Signs of Sorcery

>>53940689
>Requiem players know they are the lowest powered splat.

Nah, vampires can sometimes push around changelings, most of the lesser templates and, of course, the teeming masses of sleeper human filth.

>mage envy

>>53940914
>mage envy
Of what? Fate shuts down the fairies hard. There are so many ways to manipulate the Sleeper masses, that its not even funny.

>>53941041

No, vampires are envious of mages.

>>53941060
you put a comma in there for no reason.

So for mage the awakening what do i need to make fully functioning clones of myself?

>>53941060
One day sooner or later the mage will die. A smart vampire will live forever, no magic needed

>>53941232
>A smart vampire will live forever, no magic needed

True, but a smart mage will also live forever - although magic will be needed.

On the other hand, a smart vampire will eventually die - even if it's with the heat death of the universe.

A smart mage can get around that.

Also, question for Vampire lore enthusiasts - does starlight other than from our sun damage vampires?

>>53941217
As in Mind and Body?
Practice of Making, for both.
Your created self will not have a Soul.

Additional bodies for your same mind?
Life 5, Mind 4.
Additional bodies "share" your soul, so don't go mad, but likely only one of you can use your Soul's spellcasting abilities, attainments and the like at the same time.

Fully capable sub-selves with their own souls?
Life 8

>>53941262
I believe there was a space supplement that said vampires are only weak to the sun of the planet they are embraced on (and also can't daysleep unless they are on that planet).

If not, that was how the GM did it in the space game I was in

>>53941320
>vampires are only weak to the sun of the planet they are embraced on (and also can't daysleep unless they are on that planet).

I have to admit, I like the imagery of a Vampiric space-shuttle with a layer of terran dirt for the vampires to sleep in while exploring the empty vastness of space, searching for new species to consume.

Are CoD vamps able to survive on synthetic blood? Or does the vitae they consume specifically need to have something of a soul once attached to it?

As an Archmaster could I create a pocket dimension where I am omnipotent over all things?

Only in there of course.

>>53941271
So how exactly does being soulless effect things?

>>53941357
>Are CoD vamps able to survive on synthetic blood? Or does the vitae they consume specifically need to have something of a soul once attached to it?

I dont think its ever explained, but I'd say it has to have to come from something that is or was alive

>>53941365
Practice of Dominions.

>>53941357
Its not really blood that vampires are eating when they drink from humans. Blood is just a consequence. Imagine it more as when a vampire bites into someone they are tearing off small chunks of that person's life.

That said, they could totally breed rats or rabbits aboard a ship as long as the mission won't take more than 50 years and the vampires start at BP 1

>>53941414
Has White Wolf ever come out with a Far Future splat for their setting?

>>53941490
oWoD was the far future exalted.

>>53941490
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/World_of_Darkness:_Mirrors_-_The_Infinite_Macabre

Yup

>>53941478
There is Invictus Oath that allows vampire to skip paying for getting out of the daysleep as long as he does not feed. So if he whitholds using disciplines(those that require vitae expenditure) he can go for as long as he wishes

>>53940689
Combat optimized vamp can kill woofs, I think.
Claws of the Unholy + Swarm Form + Coil of the Wyrm is powerful combo against most of them.

>>53941478
>Sir, we're scanning their vessel. Scanners are reporting hundreds of tiny life forms scattered across their ship.
>Armaments?
>Their vessel has no significant shielding or weaponry to speak of.
>Heading?
>Seems like she's drifting in space, sir. Best guess is she's a derelict with some vermin roaming wild.
>Eh, she might still be worth some flax in scrap. Put a round through her, void her out and send over a search party. Better to be safe then sorry, eh?

And then the fun begins.

>>53941546
Long awaited "Dad Space"

>>53931619
holy shit that's scary

>>53941590
Dampened slight by the vitae cost. It's more of an emergency move imo.

>>53941357
>I like the imagery of a Vampiric space-shuttle with a layer of terran dirt for the vampires to sleep in while exploring the empty vastness of space, searching for new species to consume.

That reminds me of the classic movie, Lifeforce.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeforce_(film)

Ok so after spending some time with ATYoN

>Better than SotC
Yes.
>Is it like Imperial Mysteries
No. Focus is mostly on player and ST advice and playing elder characters
>Fluff
Art is kinda meh and story bits are alright. Haven't found anything cringe worthy so far


Regarding new rules you get
>Make your new elder
>New devotions like the ones posted at the top of this thread
>New coil that centers around vampires territory
>Some new rituals
>PIjavica, Akhud, Julii and Hollow Mekhet return
>New covenant is shit if you are not running a lot of strix and even then it is more of a coterie then the real deal

Antagonists gives you
>Meh reincarnations of vampire loved ones whos blood can drive you crazy
>Bunch of angry vampires
>Lamias and Empusa with are totaly not vampires I swear
>Jewish Golem
>Immortal african guy that needs to consume vampire essence to prolong his life(Insert obligatory We wuz kings joke here)
>Cult of heart eating guys with blood magic

Crossover
>Crossover is mostly short fluff bit and ideas of how two splats can interact. No mechanics here. Mage bit focuses mostly on Mages seeking immortality

>>53941721

How are the descriptions of attributes and skills above 5, and are those rules applicable to other splats besides vampires?

I get that being a Vampire sucks a million cocks, but holy shit do they ever play that up. Every benefit comes with two downsides.

>>53941696
>classic movie, Lifeforce

Definitely not Patrick Stewart's finest moment.

>>53941679
yeah. you could survive some pretty fucked up shit with this though.

>>53941751
Attributes are purely from fluff standpoint. Skills:

>Preternatural Skills
If a character with five dots of Investigation is akin to Sherlock
Holmes, what can players expect a character with more to
accomplish? Skills at this level of refinement look more like
philosophies than simple abilities. The elder can apply the
fundamental principles of the Skill to broader situations and
extrapolate its usage into the esoteric. For example, a vampire
with preternatural Academics may see familiar historical
patterns in the way a fight progresses and predict her opponents’
actions accordingly. If a player who purchases six or more dots
in a Skill offers enough justification and the Storyteller agrees,
she may spend a Willpower point to do one of the following:
• Substitute that Skill for another within the same category on
a mundane Skill roll. This substitution may only affect one
roll in an extended action.
• Identify someone on sight who has at least three dots in the
Skill, or pick one out of a crowd.
• Add half her character’s dots in a Mental Skill rated at 6+,
rounded up, to his Initiative for a single turn.
• Dictate the target of a Storyteller character’s next action if
her character has a Social Skill rated at 6+ and it’s at least
twice the Storyteller character’s Composure.

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>>53941396
It explains it on Pages 97-98
Essentially you start off unable to regain Willpower from rest, and your Virtue and Vice are swapped in effect. Furthermore any Viceful act is a sin against Falling Wisdom, or an Integrity Breaking Point with a -5 penalty.

When you hit Wisdom 1, you become Enervated.
You can no longer regain Willpower from your Virtue, and any application of your Vice decreases your permanent Willpower by one dot. Mages also lose a point of Gnosis every time this happens.

When your Willpower hits 0, you become a Thrall.
You can't spend Willpower, you get no Defense in combat, cannot spend Experiences, and gain the persistent effects of the Broken condition.
Which imposes a -2 on all Social rolls and those involving Resolve, and suffer a -5 to Intimidation.

Mages casting spells while soulless automatically trigger Paradox with a minimum of 1 die, and the pool gains the Rote quality. They cannot contain Paradox, or enter the Astral. Once you hit Thralldom, you can no longer cast spells.

If you can regain a soul however? The situation rapidly reverses. You lose all those Conditions, and eventually your Willpower and Gnosis start coming back.

So long story short? If someone destroys your soul?
Take. Someone. Else's.
Kill a Hobo for his if you have to.
You NEED to get a soul again.

Thankfully though, as a Mage, someone needs Mastery of Death to remove your soul.
Which MANY Reapers will have.

>>53941777

I guess ATYoN didn't adopt the rules for attributes and skills above 5 from Imperial Mysteries.

>>53941839
Well different splats and Imperial Mysteries despite being largely accurate in 2ed is still 1ed book. Dunno if above rules should be applied to other splats thou

>>53941839
For the love of god. ATYoN was never going to be the Imperial Mysteries of Requiem.

Where have you been for the past half year?

>>53941839
Was Imperial Mysteries the one that introduced retroactive skill points?

>>53941888
>ATYoN was never going to be the Imperial Mysteries of Requiem

And I wasn't remotely suggesting ATYoN was or should be an Imperial Mysteries-type book for Requiem.

I simply observed that ATYoN didn't use the few paragraphs of suggested rules for attributes and skills above 5 found in IM that would have been perfectly appropriate for vampire elders, including under 2e rules.

>>53941829
Why five dots? Isn't that flat out destroying/creating territory?

Why not four?

>>53941890
>Was Imperial Mysteries the one that introduced retroactive skill points?

Yes.

>>53941916
Because you've got to Unmake the grip with which Gnosis holds the Soul in place.
That's what it says.

>>53941365
>create a pocket dimension where I am omnipotent over all things?
Space 9

>>53941417
>Dominions
I don't see this working unless you used it on some very 'mutable' place.

Any way to become a physical (not an incorporeal entity) Lich without the Death Arcanum?

Would Life and Mind be sufficient enough for such an endeavor?

So how exactly does a Mage cast magic without a soul? Or as a ghost for that matter? I thought the connection to the supernal was from your soul.

>>53941974
Sure. But even ethical lichdom means you're probably going to be looked at w/ suspicion by every other mage in the area.

From a gameplay perspective I don't think I've ever seen a PC keel over from old age.

>>53941721
Can you describe that Coil? It sounds interesting.

>>53941974
Sure, Mind and Spirit can both transform you into Ephemeral Entities.

>>53941980
Soulless Magic is your Gnosis desperately trying to dig into where a Soul once was, and tearing its way to the Supernal, violently fracturing reality around you and dragging power through the Abyss.

Ghost-Magic from a Mage's Ghsot isn't Supernal Magic at all, but Ghostly Ephemeral Influences which have the same purview as Supernal Magic, but given the disconnect between the levels of Influence, and the Practices, are both weaker, and in certain ways more reliable.

>>53941960
1 word: chantry

>>53941721
share it faggot

>>53942066
You're not absolute in your Chantry though. Not like a True Fae within Arcadia for instance.

Anon wants to be supreme in his/her personal bubble.

>>53942093
Aren't you nigh omnipotent within your golden road?

>>53942093
wtf are you talking about, ofc your absolute in your chantry, if your not absolute there (in your own soul) then where the fuck else are you going to be.

Ass bandit

>>53942043
Coil of the Quintessence

@If another vamp kills or feeds in your domain without you allowing it you know it. You don't know who did it but you can lash out at him anyway and when you meat him face to facew you know it
@@If someone tries to resist your feeding in your domain he has to spend willpower
@@@Fire is weaker near you. Also in your domain you can clash of will someone who throws around supernatural fire to douse it out
@@@@Wherever you are sleeping in your domain you get safe place and haven equal to half your BP and you add a dot to your normal haven when you are in it
@@@@@you know people vices and you regain will power when they do(in your domain again)

>>53941721
>Crossover is mostly short fluff bit and ideas of how two splats can interact. No mechanics here. Mage bit focuses mostly on Mages seeking immortality


Are they really dusting off that old chestnut?

>>53942144
>It’s unclear whether any mages have achieved true immortality,
but a few of the most powerful have attained something like it.
A mage who can cheat death for centuries runs a good chance
of crossing paths with certain elders over and over. Sometimes
he might only seek information or favors, but a wise elder will
be waiting for the day the mage comes to steal his soul.

>>53942106
>>53942108
There's nothing indicating that an Archmaster is a narrative fairy within his/her own soul.

>>53942171
>Similarly, archmages can constantly sense >the interior of
>their Golden Road (and any Chantry within it) >and may
>cast spells targeted at the inside with no >extra Arcanum dot
>requirements.

Also go check out the write up of the archmage who is literally creating a new race inside his chantry...

>>53942126
>and you regain will power when they do

So, wp for each point of Vitae from something beneath Blood Potency restriction is valid feeding strategy now. Based Ordo.

>>53942355
If you wanna be a god king in your own realm, make that realm your own soul.

Otherwise you are retarded.

>>53942369
Eh sadly it's not that great but coil is still solid stuff
All the domain’s darkest secrets and most shameful indulgences
belong to the Dragon, filtering to her through a weak form of
blood sympathy she shares with the whole city. She may pay one
Vitae whenever she interacts with a denizen to immediately learn
his Vice and any Conditions he currently suffers that reflect
ignominious secrets, such as Guilty, Leveraged, or Notoriety.
Once per scene, whenever she observes a denizen gaining
Willpower from his Vice, she gains a Willpower point as well.
At the Storyteller’s discretion, major events within the domain
that cause emotional responses in a large number of denizens
may trigger the vampire’s blood sympathy.

>>53942411
just how do vampires spot people regaining willpower via anything?

is this something only vampires do? Can normal humans do it?

Wtf is this pish.

>>53942171
Well, an Archmaster could technically steal the capabilities of the Gentry by deploying Dominions within the deepest fathoms of the Wyrd AKA Arcadia.

Her Chantry would basically become her own personal slice of Arcadia, narrative supremacy included.

>>53942434
Good question. I guess you just get it when someone nerby does or something

>>53942158
>Headdesk.jpg

>>53942463
vampires have souls now do they? Who knew?

obv not this author...

>>53942470
They always had in requiem?

>>53942485
not as a mage would define a soul at least.

>>53942355
>may cast spells targeted at the inside with no extra Arcanum dot requirements

What does this mean exactly?

>>53942470
>>53942561

A soul's a soul, even if it's weak and warped like the Kindred tend to have. It's less a spiritual aspect and more like a metaphysical organ, and most supers have one, save for Prometheans (there's just fire in there), Beasts (replaced with a Horror), and if I'm not mistaken, Sin-Eaters as of 2e, implied/theorized by the scant info we have about Geist Second Edition.

I don't see a problem with that little tidbit, Reapers want powerful souls, and while an Elder's soul certainly isn't a well developed Mage one, it'll do the job.

>>53942613
I'm not sure if Demons have souls or is demon whole being a "soul"

>>53942355
Except how does that make them absolute within their own Golden Road / Chantry?

They can get shot in the head, it doesn't matter.

>>53942452
I don't think you can actually do any of that.

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>having one’s blood sucked still feels good to vampires
>sucking blood feels super good to vampires

Why don’t vampires suck one another’s blood? While regular feeding only lasts a short while untill victim is exsanguinated, pair of kindren can circulate the vitea between one another from dusk till dawn.

Is mutual blood bond a price too heavy for the ultimate bliss?

>>53942634
>archmaster getting shot in the head.

Have you read anything in the last few months, its unlikely to happen mateybio.

if it was that simple half these arguments wouldnt have happened, shit Luna would have just shot one in the head.

>>53942650
Cos its fucked up, there was some text about it in one of the requiem 1e books.

>>53942651
They can't wisk themselves away to their Golden Roads to dodge the head shot.

Because they're already in their Golden Road.

What's the point of even forming a Chantry when you're not absolute within it?

It's a waste to spend a Quintessence on a silly vacation home.

>>53942694
pretty sure the forces shielding spell stopped that bullet ages ago, along with intelligent reactive spells archmages have access too you wont be able to "just shoot" one.

Archmages are pretty absolute outside their chantry, inside it they are even worse. Your only there because they let you in. If you have a gun on you they prob know about it..

>>53942739
>Archmages are pretty absolute outside their chantry, inside it they are even worse

How? They're still just super-mages within their Golden Roads. They're not like the True Fae and supreme in their little bubbles of reality.

>>53942613
>>53942624
When Demons "renovate" a live human being into a cover, the spot that their physical bodies hide is the cavity left by the absence of a soul.

One could potentially intuit therefore that if they fail a spoofing roll upon having their soul stolen it would just forcibly transform them into demon form.

As for Vamps, I'm pretty sure that the state of the vampiric soul is distinct enough from anything that Mage-derived reapers appreciate as such that it's worthless. I think the specific terms used in several places are that it is thoroughly dispersed throughout their body. You can't eat it unless you eat the whole vampire at once. There are plenty of soul eating entities out there that would be game to do that, but mages don't really have a mechanism to do so, nor much in the way of interest in it. Reapers who are descended from Mages want powerful souls in the Mage definition of powerful, which entails a superior connection to the supernal or something close to that. Vampires have even worse souls by that definition than the dog someone left chained up in their front yard overnight. Side note: Maximised animal abduction is a viable low-tier Mage build I have still never seen anyone go for.

>>53942657
>"sex" between two consenting adults, who are (or soon will be) deeply in love with one another
>fucked up

>violation of unwilling victims by sucking their blood
>wholesome fun

American puritanism at it’s best!

>>53942756
Someone literally just gave you an example of Archmages snagging True Fae capabilities.

>>53942785
Well could be that mage souls are the only ones that interest reapers. Don't think it was ever stated if souls of other supers were of any use for them

>>53942807
i cant remember the exact text but it eventually boils down to sooner or later that person is going to eat you no matter the bond.

it even had a term i cant remember, when two vamps blood bond themselves to each other. Others think is pretty fucking stupid.

Any help with what 1e book its in..

>>53942842
other supers dont have souls at least according to mages.

>>53942863
How are they going to eat one another if they have the same max bloodsuck rate?

>>53942470

A mage that has lived for a couple centuries and is still harassing vampires is incompetent. Like eating crayons dumb. Like old man tremere stupid.

>>53943033
Tremere was never an old man. He was a middle aged dumbass.

>>53943092
He had mid-life crisis? Should have bought a motorboat and hang out with teenage chicks

Can you stack transformation templates in VtM.

Such as stacking horrid form with typhonic beast form from lore of the clans and tenebrous form on top of that?

>>53930951
Am I guessing correctly that they did put this in without any sort of rules how Brawl attacks at distance work (defense/armor/aggravated damage)?

>>53931543
>Dice Pool: Dexterity + Athletics + Celerity - Stamina
>Action: Contested; resistance is reflexive
How the hell is this contested? Now it's obvious, no effort put in editing again, same as with VtR:SotC and pretty much any recent CofD material.

>>53944075
This are simple enough. Antagonist section is the biggest mess.

>>53939310
yes. Can't depict zionists positive these days and still claim to be progressive

>>53929772
I Have No Mouth, and I Must Kek

>>53944073
Depends. Probably not in most cases.

>>53942650
Diablerie related taboos.

>>53944940
>Can't depict zionists positive these days and still claim to be progressive

I had the misfortune of reading the M20 FAQ in Book of Secrets, and Brucato is an even bigger ass than I had previously imagined.

Among other unsavory attributes, Phil is a typical ultra left-wing hypocrite. He's demand and lauds "diversity," so long as nothing that is remotely considered white or western is included in positive light. He claims to want to avoid the stereotypes of that permeated the 1990's WW books, yet the "magical minority" tropes still pervade M20, just with a more contemporary self-righteous, virtue-signalling, white liberal guilt, "I'm so funny and smart because I endlessly snark about conservatives." veneer.

As always, the great irony is that many of the cultures he insists on including and highlighting in M20, would probably actually kill those who share his beliefs or have other "neurodiverse" ideas, no less groups like homosexuals or the transgendered.

>>53945253
This explicitly can’t happen.

Diablerie means drinking other vamp dry. Vamps have max suck rate 3 bloodpoints per turn, unless one deliberately sucks at lower rate (why?) diablerie can’t occur.

>>53945472
like his whining about al-Andalus and how le ebil whites suppress all knowledge of it (they don't, Phil just never payed attention in History class)

>>53945561
More then that to diablerize someone you have to make a concious effort. You can't diablerize by accident.

>>53945573
Conspiracy cucks such as this exist everywhere. Here where I live current popular theory is that we had great empire but knowledge about it is hidden by catholic church

Is there any creature/critter (other than non-hunter, non-ensorcelled, totally-normal-not-special-at-all-humans) that a changeling is actually more powerful than? I mean even cell level hunters are more than equipped to deal with your average changeling.

>>53945845
Is that true? In terms of 1e Changelings probaly had it better than both vamps and woofs(both were weak as shit). Weaker than Promies and Sin-eaters but those were strong splats in 1e

This is probably in one of the books someplace and I'm just retarded and keep missing it.
Is there any sort of guidelines on how to do semi balanced encounter design? Like what x splat should be at exp wise to take on a Rank 3 Spirit and not get completely cockstomped by it.
To be honest I never really bothered with this stuff before when GMing, I always ran cWoD and it had better rules for handwaving shit. "Yeah mooks roll like 4 dice for what they need to be good at and die at 6 damage"

>>53945884
I mean depending on what Contracts you take you can sorta munchkin yourself into something akin to a low-level mage, but even the most powerful Contracts are either ridiculously specific in their utility or straight up pointless in anything other than fluff-terms.

>>53945903
Not really. WHile there are various writeups of antagonists most of the time you will have to eyeball the encounter for your players. When I was starting up as a ST I had horrible problem with it.

My players either stomped or got stomped. Only after we all got a bit of experience in the systems encounters became more even handed

>>53934998
>supremacy
What is it about mage players that inspires this burning NEED to be the most powerful, most untouchable, most consequence-free splat?

It's been like this for fucking DECADES on the internet, as long as mages have existed as a playable gameline.

Who hurt you, mage players? What is your damage? What is it that this game is compensating for in your lives that you need it to be this way?

>people caring about how strong their splat is
I mean my favorite splat is like objectively the least powerful. Literally any supernatural being with any degree of skill could kick a Changeling's ass six ways to Sunday.

>>53946153
At least they are interesting and can cover various types of games. Thou I admit Changeling never clicked with me

>>53946153
Likewise. I just never got it, man.

>>53942470

What did you think a vampire eats when committing diablerie?

>>53946666
>What did you think a vampire eats when committing diablerie?

Do vampires have damages human soul or something totally different?

File: Komodo.jpg (170KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 500x375px

>>53946666
Pork Rinds?

>>53946666
the curse?

>>53942613
I think the Horror actually counts as a soul seeing as how it can be stolen using Death alone instead of Mind or Death/Mind.

>>53941974
Permanent Veil of Moments (Time 2) will do it, but you're crippling your personal development for ever and ever.

I think it was mentioned that Life 5 can outright prevent you from aging, but if it's ever dispelled all your years return at once.

The following has no basis in the books, but perhaps with Matter and some other Arcana you could put yourself in an artificial body a'la Fullmetal Alchemist. You would never heal resistant damage, though. Prime could give you an Eidolon body, but I haven't thought what could go wrong there.

You could do a Mind transfer with Mind 5, but without Death you couldn't transfer your Soul or Gnosis. That would be -weird-.

>>53948126
>You could do a Mind transfer with Mind 5, but without Death you couldn't transfer your Soul or Gnosis. That would be -weird-.

I believe you can transfer yourself with Mind and still cast magic.

The issue with immortality is that you either have to turn yourself into something totally inhuman (spirit, ghost, goetia, etc.) or commit terrible acts abhorrent to the Awakened community (body and/or soul theft, stealing years of life, etc.).

With sufficient proficiency in the Arcana, Immortality is mechanically relatively "easy" to achieve, so long as you are willing to pay price and accept the consequence.

>Roll Wisdom...

>>53946736

>Komodos have no souls

>>53948343
>>53948331
Well, that's easy done then. Make a komodo immortal and stickytape your mind and soul to the body. Et voila. You're a mage, and a dragon.

Idea for a home-brew arcana attainment.

Greater utility attainment for Life 4 Best-master (You may add your dots in life as a bonus to animal ken rolls)

>>53948352
This is good but needs a theme song

Will Signs of Sorcery include rules or guidelines for creating new Arcana Attainments, such as XP costs, if any, to pick-up extra attainments besides the ones you get automatically listed in the book?

>>53948404
>This is good but needs a theme song

I'm thinking something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ls2SDeqltk

>>53948445
Try posting again with an offering to the Komodo Exarch. Perhaps he'll respond if we're so fortunate.

>>53948489
>Try posting again with an offering to the Komodo Exarch. Perhaps he'll respond if we're so fortunate.

I'm unfortunately posting from work, and all my Komodo offerings are on my home laptop :(

>>53948404
No theme, just whoever does the voice acting for th dragon ball z dragon yelling FUCK YOU I'M A DRAGON over and over again.

>>53948445
>Will Signs of Sorcery include rules or guidelines for creating new Arcana Attainments, such as XP costs,

Do mages really need more powers, no less inherent abilities?

I tend not to complain about "mage supremacy," but there is a point of overkill.

>MFW no Imperial Mysteries 2e update with Arcana Attainments for 6+ Arcanum dots

>>53948551
I think 2e will just be a picture of other splat players tied up in a basement, turkey-slapped by mage players.

>>53948445
No

Anyone have the Thousand Years of Night PDF to post yet?

>>53948583
If there's an Imperial Mysteries 2e, will it elaborate at all on the sponsors of 'other' templates that lurk in the Supernal?

>>53948583

Since alternative or additional Arcana Attainments are mentioned in the core, is it intended that developing them should cost XP, and if so, how much?

>>53942863
>>53942910
'Hungarian Marriage'. Ordo Dracul, I think. Gives 2 vitae for every 1 taken. Punishment: Lock them both in a metal box and toss them into the ocean.

>>53946904
Where did it say that, somewhere in Dark Eras? Because I'm playing a mage in a mixed game and was kind of planning to see if I could do a goetic summon of the Beast player's horror and see if they would benefit from talking to it like most people do their goetic demons

Ah hah, in 1e its called a "Hungarian Marriage" when two vampires feed of each other. Been annoying me all day.

Basically two vamps with third coil of blood can feed of each other indefinatly. However as soon as one frenzies and eats the other (looses control) .

>The second iteration of the cult was made up
of pairs that fed exclusively on each other. That
was more stable: instead of a critical mass in which
one weak link sent the entire chain going ape on
each other, the worst-case scenario was only a
Mexican standoff between the two mutually
adoring (but still addicted and frenzy-prone)
members. These so-called “Hungarian Marriages”
often sated their addiction on other vampires,
with the predictable result that they’d get hunted
down like rabid dogs.

It wont work without the coil since both vampires are loosing one blood point a night and need to regain it from a external source.

fucking capta just thought a guitar was a cello...

What would a spirit with an Influence in itself be able to do with each dot?

>>53948612
please dont waste pages and words on that shit, crossover shit can fuck off. See 1000' years of shite for examples of why crossover fluff with no mechanics is bad..

>>53942650
They become so obsessed with each other that they begin disregard everything else. Also, they are more likely to act on momentary whims( which may endanger Masquerade).

>>53948804
nWoD was built with it in mind. They said that at the start. Or they'd have done things like oWoD. Kindly don't start yet another fucking flamewar because people are having badwrongfun.

>>53948821
er no Dave has said that the splats are not in any way built to be balanced between themselves. Go look it up fool.

>>53948815
all it takes is one frenzy and your ass is grass.

>>53948847
Yes, because your mate is entirely responsible for the original design work on nWoD. Take your self righteous gatekeeping bullshit and jam it.

>>53948796
You mean like a Spirit of Spirits?

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72KB, 640x504px

>>53948881
Sort of. More of a Spirit of John, that Spirit who Lives on Third Street. Who also happens to BE John, that Spirit who Lives on Third Street.

>>53948875
feel free to provide evidence to back up your wildly wrong theory?

>>53948902
dont think spirits can get influence with themselves as a individual.

a dog spirit can get influence: dogs though

>>53948944
The original releases?

>>53948971
That's great, and not at all related to the question.

>>53948977
fuck off, they arnt removely balanced between each other. If that was the original design they failed hard.

As much as you want crossovers to have been in the design until you provide actual text from a designer that says so you can go fuck your mother.

>>53949007
I'm not even sure you're reading anything, or doing anything but taking in every second word.

>>53949032
All i want it proof that the original design for nWoD was that they would be crossover compatable and balanced.

I would go and search for press releases and articles from the time nWoD was announced and shit but the onus is on you to provide evidence of your "theory". If it was an original design as you say there will have been discussion about it somewhere, please show me because you must have read it to form that opinion, otherwise its all in your retarded head.

Is C20 available for public (non-backer) sale yet, and if not, when? I've seen the deluxe edition pop up for sale in a few places and the pdf for download, but not much else.

>>53949113

>>53949084
>balanced
Let's not get into that, because you're making up shit. Let's get into the part where you're talking about crossover compatibility, like I was.

Specifically: The original press releases, and an article in Variety magazine on how 'a new lin lays claim to vampire'. I'd use google. You want the bits on the storyteller system, and how it was designed to make 'one world of darkness'