Warhammer 40,000 General /40kg/

The swarm has wings and it is beautiful

second for world eaters

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Cute numarines are still cute.

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Anyone still disappointed with morale?

So many units just ignore it that you can't reliably build an army around it.

Death Guard have bell guy and icon of despair together for -2 which is pretty decent... but who cares lol, commisar, mob rule, 2 CP...

This is like the 3rd time we have had this edition

>Dark Eldar Wyches prevent opponents from leaving combat with them unless they win a rolloff

How important is this ability? 4 games into 8th, 3 of them with Wyches, and this still hasn't come into play a single time.

>>53782242
We were duped as usual. Thing is, much like vehicles being more durable, people don't want to keep removing their hard earned models all the time. It's upsetting to see half your army die turn one when you spend months making and painting those models.

>>53782242
As a nidfad, the only disappointing thing is Synapse' range

>>53782260
It's more important versus shooty armies. What armies did you play?

Is it possible to build Yvraine without her dress?

>>53782260
As a Guard player, leaving combat is a huge buff for us because we can fire guns after we leave with an order. That cripples strategies for us.

>>53782242
Yep they some how made it even more worthless. After 12 games I've actually use the moral rules 5 times.

Rest of the time either something ignores it, mitigates it to the point of being ignored or our right never happens

>>53782260
It's like Tartaros Terminators being able to sweep. It pretty much never comes up.

>>53782260
Depends on their opponent.

It's pointless vs 30 strong boy/gaunt mobs but Shooty units with Fly will hate it.

>>53782285
It does seem to make certain units unviable.

>500 conscripts

Ez game.

>500 cultists

RETREAAAT

MY SPLEEEN

>>53782242
I was brainstorming an eldar army that relied on leadership penalties. With the Harlequin Death Jester, you get to choose 1 specific model everytime a unit the jester attacked loses a morale check.

I'm finally to that happy mental space where I'm no longer thinking of my units as 'these seem neat', 'i used to run this and it was good', or 'anti-x', but as broad concepts.

Like 'a static firing base', 'a solid core moving up advancing forward', 'arrives places places to disrupt my enemy', 'hunts things down'.

Don't know what triggered it, but now I can finally start really list building.

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>>53782178
Not using China maid girl as OP image.

>>53782282
No idea, you can probably find the instructions online (pdf or photo). Alternatively look up the sprues and see what you can do?

>>53782285
As opposed to armies that just ignored morale entirely and only ever used ld in case of Mind war?

>>53782282
You'd have to trim a bit, but you've got enough leg under there that you should be able to manage

>>53782320
They only time moral matter in 40k was when 3rd had all the armies in its rule book. After that there has always been moral ignoring armies

>>53782313
Is she supposed to be an employee or something?

Where is it that has girls in maid costumes selling warhams?

>>53782354
Hong Kong.

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Reposting here...

Wondering if it's worth taking two weirdboyz with Da Jump as insurance? They aren't that expensive and if one of them blows up with perils you've got thirty boys (or whatever) sitting around in your back-field with no purpose.

Also, what's the best (matched play) strategy for Da Jump? You only get to use it once per turn, but it's moderately reliable with the Waaagh! Energy rule. The first unit is likely to get to it's destination turn 1 or 2, which is good, but every further unit gets less benefit from it. You probably need at least a few hundred points of orks being thrown up the board every time to justify the cost of the weirdboy(s) and that probably means 30-strong blocks of shoota boys, because I don't see much else which you would want to get close but don't mind trading fire with the enemy for a turn at 9". I guess as the game moves on, you will want smaller and less valuable units to use it on, so maybe the best choice is something like 30 shoota boys, 20 shoota boys, 10 shoota boys, 10 grots or something?

Alternatively, have the weirdboy teleport himself once he's sent the first couple of units and try to use smites or move the units again. With two weirdboys you can chain the effect to have one teleport the other who can then smite as soon as he arrives.

Also, what's the best number of models to use with Waaagh! Energy? I think about 30 for +3 seems fine, as perils only does a maximum of 3 wounds and the weirdboy has 4. Every turn he fails to use Da Jump, you're effectively wasting the units which are waiting to go, so you need to have a decent chance of success.

>>53782313
Man GW really knows how to target its audience. Soon they will be sending out qt traps selling Slaanesh stuff

>>53782363
In Match Play its 'attempt' not success.

If you fail once you can't try till you get it again.

>>53782320
I thought I remembered New Games Workshop™ saying the Morale would matter in 8e.

Played about a dozen 8es so far. Never came up.

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>tfw every army I want to play is either too expensive to collect, too hard to paint, or overplayed already

why live senpai

>>53782392
what matchups have you had?

>>53782392
They also said that armies will be capable of scaling with the number of psykers.

>>53782396
Which armies?

>>53782242
the -2 doesn't feel so much against hoards. For them even with out the ignoring, it's killing 2 more fairly weak models.

Full ten man MEQ squad you just killed 5 of, now it's killing 2 extra space marines.
Bullgryns, now even if you just kill 1 you have a decent chance of killing a T5 W3 unit.


Moral doesn't do what it used to do. Completely ignore the commisar, mob rule ect for now. It's not what it used to be.
before moral was a bigger deal for small units. Lose 1 or 2 models and you might lose the unit. Now small units don't worry about moral most of the time.
Now 10+ man units are where moral comes up.

But 10+man units are appealing now, because less units let you get first turn.

>>53782414

All of them! Every army I could nake fits into one of those categories.

>>53782396
Must be hard being a picky.

>>53782437

It fucking sucks.

might have to get a dark apostle to stop my cultists running away as much

feels fluffy man

>>53782242
Mob rule isn't a blanket immunity; your defence against morale losses goes up at the same rate as your vulnerability to them. Kill 19 orks out of a 30 ork mob and you can still do the rest in with morale. Just need to concentrate your firepower and know where the critical point is between no morale losses and overkill. Ld modifiers are basically a free kill per -2, which isn't that bad.

But yes, is general the morale rules seem badly thought-out. There are still a lot of units which ignore them and they don't seem to have grasped that they encourage MSU play even more.

Also, they have a really 'gamey' feel to them which I'm not terribly fond of. Same as the new character rules. Feels more like a card-game than a wargame.

>not posting newest thing

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/13/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-adeptus-mechanicus/

>>53782409
Not him, but I have faced Guard, orks, nids, tau, mech and marines

Even me playing with SoB pretty much never had to use the moral system in the book.

Either things die before it could be rolled or ignored by some rules.

The only time it was used was when someone intentionally brought big squads with no way to mitigate moral

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I've been out of the loop and haven't been able to play in about 8 months.

Give it to me straight doc, hows 8e looking? for Dark Angels?

>>53782411
they are.
One side taking 10+ psykers doesn't invalidate the other sides psykers.

Yes some armies are limited to 3 unique powers +smite. But those armies rely on HQ psykers. Were you expecting that statement to mean all Armies can spam psykers effectively.

Of the armies capable of spaming psykers:
Pure T-sons got kinda fucked, I'll admit. But chaos in general can mix in different lores, and lot of the spamable psykers are about smite anyways.
Nids, the only spamable thing wants to cast smite.
CW eldar have 12 unique powers. And the big spam lists rely on units of psykers not characters. 2 farseers 2 warlocks still seems vary usable.

>>53782391
True, but with say one 30 Boy mob nearby that Wierdboy is getting +3. Getting a 91% chance to succeed, and a 33% to perils.

If there were 60 Orks. That's a 100% cast with a 72% perils.

Depending on your Perils value your WB might be low enough that if he periled again. He'd die and Da Jump auto fails.

>my advice
If you really want to use Da Jump as a core part of your strategy. Use two. Otherwise one should suffice.

>>53782490
things got even gayer

>>53782490
decent

Assuming you start low with SM and about 500 points from the basic "getting started" box, how would you advance from there to get to 1k? Vehicles, like transports? More footsloggers? Or something different?
Assuming 7ed. And what if you're playing Salamander Codex? Any change?

>>53782409
Hodge podge, but the armies that have fought in our 8e group are as followed:

>Daemons, Grey Knights, Space Marines, Tau, Guard, AdMech, Orks

>>53782520
Get a rhino.

>>53782520
Rhino, another tac squad, a pod and some termis would make a nicely rounded force
For salamanders just paint em green and give everything that can carry one a flamer. Because fluff

Thoughts on my SM list? It's 75ts and I'm trying to keep numbers as low as possible. Has a Vamguard and Patrol detachement for 4 command points

HQ
- Captain w/ Relic Blade & Plasma Pistol
- Captain w/ Power Sword

Elites
- Chapter Champion w/ Relic Blade
- Venerable Dreadnought w/ Assault Cannon &a Storm Bolter
- Honour Guard w/ Relic Blade & Power Axe

Troops
- 5 man Tactical Squad w/ Power Sword & Plasma Gun
- 5 man Tactical Squad w/ Power Sword & Flamer
- 5 man Squad w/ Power Maul & Missile Launcher

>>53782242
Morale is bad m'kay? You don't want your army to panic and run off in a chain reaction.

>>53782225
>snotlings follow him like puppies

Will Datasheets be available for free online by GW?

what will the black mace do in 8th?

>>53782363
After getting "jumped" last game as guard, iv been trying to find a counter. Would infiltrating a couple ratling units in from of my deployment zone to keep the orks from getting within 9 inches of my important stuff be a good idea.

>>53782628
No, just the core rules

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What did GW mean by this?

>>53782563
Though about it, sounds really good. Thanks.

>>53782564
I have 2 "horde" orkz as enemies in my FLGS, ofc I will give everything (well, except maybe 1-2 melta) a flamer :^)
But thanks for the suggestions

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>>53782391
Right, the insurance is for if the weirdboy dies, not if he fails. You can just boost his roll until he's sure to pass, but he has a limited life expectancy. So use 40 or 50 boys to soup him up for the first jump, accept the perils, then do it again and risk him dying before the second unit gets through. The backup weirdboy lets you keep doing it after the first one dies.

However, given the declining return on the investment, I'm now inclined to say that it's not worth having two weirdboys. The points you save by not having unit 2 or 3 stuck around doing nothing don't seem worth a weirdboy. Probably better to teleport turn 1, then start running up the field with the others, teleporting if you can.

>>53782242
Calling it morale and making it based on "how scared are u lol" is problem one

At least in AoS 'Battleshock' is a loose term that can apply to several things.

In 40k, the only things prone to running away are Gaurd or possibly Orks / Dark eldar.

Everything else is some kind of Heroic supersoldier / eldritch horror / insane fanatic / fearless unthinking monster and can't really be seen to just walk out of the fight or it feels weird

Why are drones such a hassle to actually get?
The Tau list shoves them to you up the wazoo but actually getting the models is a pain.

>>53782663
Hmm is the destroyer hive rule so that it always hits at 5+ or that it can hit on 5+ in overwatch?

>>53782663
You can only have 1 typhus, unlike the generic scrub so you have to balance things.

>>53782641
Best bet is to keep a couple throw away units (Guardsmen / Conscripts) as a screen about 5"-6" away from your battle line. So even if he jumps he can only kill your screen, but is unable to consolidate into your battle line.

>>53782672
>at least in AoS
Sigmar club is two threads down.

>>53782479
>BOLS tier clickbait articles written by the highest levels of tourney fags that didn't even notice basic issues in the new ruleset

Why link people to shit?

>>53782663
They meant that those are point costs associated with those units? I don't follow

>>53782641
>>53782641
Why would you need to infiltrate them?

Units should be immune to morale checks when they destroy an enemy unit in close combat.
It just feels so weird having some boys run away crying after they tore off some enemy soldiers face.

>>53782719
Why even link Faction Focuses after getting leaks. It's not like they tell us anything new.

>>53782746
Sering half of your unit also be worm food does things to a man.

Flesh Tearers or Lamenters?

What do?

>>53782746
>emerge victorious from the hordes of gants attacking us.
>cheering until I realize half my unit is gone
>I'll never see greg again
>look around
>thousands more of those buggers are right there, running right for us

>>53781600
>if the model loses a wound

Does it say anything about HOW it loses a wound? No. How the fuck is this hard to understand

Use your fucking brain you stupid piece of shit

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>>53782716
We loiter here until geedubs deices to give us more sigmarines/khorne.

>40kfags think aos was the beta test for 8th
>implying 8th isn't the beta test for GHB2

>>53782260

It's useless in general because you can never strategize around an ability that only has a 50% chance of going off anyway.

>>53782663
#playtesting

>>53782765
Flesh Tearers. Much better chapter.

>>53782785
Great Hobbit Battles 2?
Please no, I don't want my favorite GW game to get even worse.

>>53782668
remember that if a weirdboy survives, since they're basically guaranteed big numbers they can start dishing out the big smites. d6 mortal wounds is nothing to sneeze at. Also if you have a painboy for your army you can use him to heal the weirdboyz while still giving fnp to the boyz.

>>53782765
Lamenters are cool

>>53782242
>Anyone still disappointed with morale?
As an Ork player, that's a big fat NOPE. Given how low the average boyz Ld is and the fact things like 'Eavy Armor are no longer around to give foot-slogging mobs a have decent save, mob rule keeps my 30 boyz from freaking out over losing 3 guys because some guy got a lucky shot as they're running toward him from the other side of the table.

>>53782475
>But yes, is general the morale rules seem badly thought-out.
Not really. The rules balance it so armies with low natural leadership don't end up getting wrecked like they constantly were in previous editions but at a much higher rate because GW kept the same shitty leadership as before.

Then again, 8e's probably going to require a lot of adapting to new strategies on all sides, based on the battle reports I've seen...

>>53782799
>units have bs 4+
>can't strategize around them hitting things with guns

>>53782641
Depends on how deep you want the buffer, but in general, yes, denying deep strike by blanketing the table with units and pushing the envelope of that denial zone with special deployments seems like a decent strategy.

Note however that the ratlings must be deployed at least 18" from the closest ork unit, so you might not be able to push the line very far forward. Still, every extra inch counts. Your opponent also has the option of waiting until the ratlings have been wiped out by shooting, which isn't tough. That buys you time though, which is generally good when you outrange your opponent.

Ratlings are really in the competition for single most useful unit in the game now.

>>53782748
I almost feel like GW realized that the FF articles were shit and released the rules early to ensure people understood the new edition properly.

>>53782720
the issue is that Typhus is 20 points cheaper than the lord of contagion (remember, lord of contagion still has to buy a 45 point plague reaper, meaning he costs 184)... and Typhus is strictly superior, stat wise and ability wise.

>>53782432
Necrons

Cheap because almost everything is plastic
Easy to paint
Underplayed

>>53782821
As H.G. Wells once said "it is only an insane man that would entrust his life to the flip of a coin".

>>53782693
No
Overwatch always requires a 6 to hit, there are no modifiers allowed

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Thoughts on Missile Launchers for Sentinels? D6 shots makes up for the -1BS on the go and then once you're parked then S8 shot is pretty good. Still does D6 damage like the Lascannon.

>>53782242

I watched a batrep yesterday where a marine player lost like ten models and three squads in just turn 1 from battleshock.

Ironically it mostly seems to be Marines that are the most at risk, because even with ATSKNF leadership 7 is hard to succeed on if you lose even just three or four models.

You think moral doesn't matter because you're looking at horde armies and thinking that that's where morale should come into play. In reality it's MSU armies that suffer the most from it.

>>53782838
Ah. Well that seems poorly thought out

>>53782282
Yes, you can. Both legs are fully modeled, though you'll need to cover the small hole on each hip where the dress attaches (I'm planning on using hellion pauldrons on mine). You can also leave off her headdress thing with minimal effort. Biggest thing is her corset, which might look a bit off when she's just got the cat suit look (that one is all personal preference, though).

>>53782799
Assume theyll succeed it and that having them stay in melee is a bonus for you

>>53782850
Their Vehicles are kind of a bitch to put together but at least they look unique.

Anyone have advice on killing 40-60 genestealers with broodlords as space marines?

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>>53782933
Forgetting this little unit?

>>53782933
FRFSRF a couple conscript blobs at them?

>>53782933
Long range weaponry and screening chaff

>>53782821

The Vanquisher is shit precisely because it has only a single shot at BS 4+.

Way to shit on your own weak counter-argument, lol.

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Any good roster for 750pts CSM? I just dont know what to get. Everytime i build shit with only 1-2 units who did their work
Last time my termies died after they teleported to 9 at enemy, sorc failed to warptime them, they get 3 wound from overwatch and charged by jumped on table vanguard veterans. And they killed whole squad at 1 round of fight with 4wound on overkill

>>53782953
>as space marines
>conscripts

>>53782883
I think they seem pretty good as a versatile option, with a hunter killer as a way to double your firepower when stationary when you need it.

>>53782663
it means that the lord of contagion is more powerful

>>53782974
<IMPERIUM>

Lots of dakka and lots of running away

>>53782966
Seems fine.

I'd get a rhino or helbrute to get some armor on the board.

>>53782883
Frag missiles are garbage against every target in the game.

A frag missile fired by a moving sentinel averages 2 dead gaunts every 3 turns.

>>53782963
>conscripts are shit because you can't even think about strategizing around hitting enemies 1/6th to 1/3rd of the time

>>53782999
Sentinels don't really put out a lot of damage.

>>53782988
>Being a <Faction>fag

>>53782178
Can any Nid players here give me advice on using Carnifexes in 8th? I used to just run them at tanks and hope they make it, but now they can't really do much against large models. What is their purpose now?

>>53782966
>750

Who plays this format ??

>>53783030
>muh fluff

>>53782878
No, it hits on 5+ even when firing overwatch.
Unit entries override general rules.

>>53782933
Rapid firing storm bolters. Land Raider Redeemer. Any mass dakka you can muster.

>>53783024
Then don't use them if your hope for damage is killing 10 points of gaunts over the course of the game with a 60 point model.

>>53782974
<didn't read 8e army building rules, still posts.

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>>53783043
>not playing for the fluff

>>53783041
I play with my friend. Cause we newbies

Nothing new today?

>>53782886
> because even with ATSKNF leadership 7 is hard to succeed on if you lose even just three or four models.

I'm going to disagree pretty strongly here, because the math doesn't work out.

To lose a model off leadership 7 (should be 8 take the damn sergant and remove him last), you need 8 on the result.
That means a 5+ if you lost 3 models. That's a 1/3 chance without ATSKNF, but a 1/9 with it. Pretty low chances of losing a model.

Where it comes up is if you lose 7 models of an 10 man squad. Even with the sergeant left, you are very likely to lose models (25/36 chance to lose at least one), with a 25% chance to lose the whole squad.

ATSKNF does a lot to midigate low-mid chance of losing models, but stops working at high chances to lose models.

Hey, what's a good space marines list to get into this game at about 875 points?

>>53783030
Playing Imperium units with other Imperium units.
It has been a thing since before 3rd

How new are you?

>>53783060
I read the army building rules.

I know you can use marines and conscripts in the same list. I do not intend to buy a guard army, I have a marine army. And soon codexes will be out which will limit you to just taking marines.

>>53783036
I've been running 3 screamerkillers with adrenal at tough infantry and skimmers basically. They do petty well. Also thresher scythes went bad once you hit a blob

>>53783036
Cheap distractions

>>53782933

Primaris lieutenants and sternguards full of flamers / heavy flamers

>>53783092
Why would the codexes limit you to playing just marines?

>>53783098
If you get charged from 9 inches away, or if they pile in or consolidate into you instead of charging, you don't get to use flamers.

hey guys im playing a 1109 point tournament, whats the best space marine army with those points??

>>53782966
2sec boy

>>53783111
Because that's how the keyword system works?

This is based on the AoS system, and the AoS system has you put more and more restrictive faction keywords on your army for benefits. They already said that they'll do that here too.

If you take an army that's just Raven Guard for example you'll get special Raven Guard rules. If you mix in conscripts you don't get shit.

>>53783121
What's with the weird number?

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Alright. On a scale of 1 to wtf, how would you rate this?
I'd have to trim down the emblems on her armour and fill the gaps between her torso and upper leg armour with green stuff.

>>53782966
what kind of army?

>>53782933
Thunderfire cannons
Heavy bolters
Flamers / Heavy flamers
Hurricane bolters
Stormbolters

STANDARD ANTI INFANTRY GUNS WORK
FFS

>>53783111
Because that is the entire point of a codex to focus on one army
Because the current rules are just a quick slapdash hold over until we get the real shit
Because [SM hero] won't give buffs to [Guard blob]


Are you a retard? be honest.

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>>53783153
Why?/10

>>53783148
Its totally normal where I play

Next week we are playing 633 points

Whats the best army for 1340 points???

>>53783155
Little magic and a few armored boxes. And something with combo as termies at 9"+warptime

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>>53783153
Been done.

>>53783180
Why would a SM hero not give buffs to guards who probably think that SM is a living legend?

>>53783153
no

>>53782974

Conscripts are better than marines now
Just remove your marines and throw them out, obsolete trash

>>53783021

How did I know you were going to bring up conscripts next? Anyway.

>I'm too stupid to understand how multiple chances mitigates bad odds
>I'm too stupid to realize that rolling 300 dice will result in more successful 4+ rolls then rolling one dice

The deepest bait.

>>53783196
>>53783153
>saint like pure waifu of the emperor goes into battle with the armor of absolute territory, just like my animus!

>>53783092
>>53783111
if we use AoS as a sign, new codexes will limit you to *Primaris* marines. Check out that cool AoS codex that lets you take an empire army... [which doesn't exist: they will live in their "index" equivalent for ever since they got brand new units we call sigmarines]

>>53783221

Who would want manlet marines anyway

>>53783209
Oh, so it's just a sample size thing for you? Well then, over a thousand battles, you can reliably expect half of the squads engaged with wyches to not be able to fall back, and half of the vanquisher shots to hit, etc, etc

>>53783170
It takes 4 heavy bolters per turn to kill 3 genestealers.

A thunderfire cannon kills 2 per turn.

Flamers have a short range and there are ways for the tyranid player to completely ignore them such as charging from 9 inches or engaging without charging.

How are you fielding enough storm bolters to make a dent? It takes 4 storm bolters rapid firing to kill 3 genestealers. What models are carrying them?

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>>53782966

>>53783196
Dammit.

I thought I had something.

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What's the best way to expand this army?

>>53783080
What chapter?

>>53783195
coming right up.

>>53783273
Get some more bodies. 10-20 Tzaangor have -1 rend they are pretty gud and nice models.

>>53783247
Who would want marines anyway?

I have over hundred marines and not even play them. Why? Because the bloody things come in everything!
Even the starter set for fantasy had a booklet for marines for fuck sake.

Play GW for a couple of decades and you'll get enough marines to play with them just by buying other stuff

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>>53783268
Oh, you've got something. Someone else just had it first.

>>53783273
an AT hellbrute Lascannon/missle launcher

>>53783219
40k is an anime. Deal with it nerd.

>>53783273
What the other guys said. You need bodies and armor/anti armor

>>53783305
I've seen you make this comment or similar in several other threads. Are you just waiting for someone to give you a (you) for your seinfeldian observation?

What's the deal with marines? They come in everything!

hahaha, my sides, hearty keks!

>>53782577
Merge the detachments i to one battalion detachment for extra command points (2 more). Consider als getting the tactical sergeants a fancy gun, because you don't pay extra for them.

>>53783305
I'm still waiting for Age of Sigmar and 40k to turn into just one game.

>>53783263
I heard 2 talons on DP is very good choice and i think 1 manifest/deny is too small, cause i want to buff allies and other shit. And how to properly use cultists? I played with them only 1 game and all 10 they just died after 1 round of shooting 15 scout-snipers and taking a morale test

>>53783080
just get the Primaris side of the 8E starter box. thats about 1000 points, and about the same cost of the start collecting boxes (which are about 500 points).

Alternatively you can get Betrayal at Calth or Prospero Burns for a ton of marines (3 tactical / devastator squads plus terminators plus some other stuff)

>>53783305
>Who would want marines anyway?
People who play them? Unless you're asking why play marines, in which case the question is phrased horribly.

>>53783356

GW is just putting everyone into power armour in AoS so they can do it. Siggies, Chaos, and now Dwarves. I am waiting for Elves to come out (never ever lol) just to see what they will look like in power armour.

>>53783209
>I'm too stupid to realize that rolling 300 dice will result in more successful 4+ rolls then rolling one dice.
different anon, and while this is true it doesn't actually explain the point you are trying to go for. Variance and the law of large numbers

The law of large number is that as the sample size increases to infinity, the average of the sample will move towards the statistical average.

The average number of success for one die on 4+ is 0.5. This is nonsense as the result for 1 die, you will either get 1 success or zero. The difference between the sample average and the statistical is 0.5 100% of the time.

Rolling 4 dice, the average successes is 2. With the average success per die being 0.5.
The actual result will very from 0 to 4, with average successes per die being between 0 and 1, but likelyhood of getting a difference of means at 0.5 is 25%.

The likelyhood of getting a difference in means of 0.5 with 300 dice it's 2/(2^300). Which pretty tiny.

>>53783348
>implying he is wrong
Beside the knight and air cash grab game only one 40k board game didn't come with marines.

If you play marines and had been playing this game for more than decade, you eventually get tired of them.

Ok so reading the chaos index and don't see khorne daemonkin, did they just remove them or are chaos daemons and csm one now?

>>53783402
I wasn't implying he was wrong, I was implying he enjoys repetitive tasks a little too much.

I don't like marines, and I haven't even played this game yet.

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>>53783363

>>53783422

Yup. Just use the Khorne keyword.

>>53783387
You being to question Marines popularity after you see how they show up in everything.

Wonder if GW ever sat down and think why they sell so well? Is it because people actually love them or is it because more than a third of our model line are just marines?

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>>53783398
>dryads in power armor
Huh.

>>53783036
Dakkafex and Screamers for infantry/elite smashing mostly.

>>53783034
>spray silver
>red and gold details
>black wash
>drybrush highlight silver
>get a shitty flat-looking mud-covered parody of a miniature

>>53783432
Point taken.
He might be very annoyed that we have more marines releases before anything else, again.

>>53783402
>Beside the knight and air cash grab game only one 40k board game didn't come with marines.
Oh Christ not this again. How many times does this "marines are in everything" claim have to be proven wrong for morons like you to shut up?
Off the top of my head non-marine games include:
>gangs of commarah
>necromunda
>Inquistior
>the knight game
>2 out of the 3 skycloud attack boxes.

And more over, why does it bother people that GW puts it's best selling product in things? That's just good buisness. It's like complaing about 2000 AD featuring Judge Dredd in most issues,or Microsoft focusing on Halo, buisnesses focus on what makes them money.

>>53783251
your confusing samples and subsamples.
Which is really bad when sample characteristics effect each other, thus making subsamples differ from between samples.

This isn't a fractal pattern. Things change across level of magnification.

20 dice from a unit in one attack will always use the lower variance of the 20 dice, the individual variance of each 2 dice subsample will not effect tactical decisions because no actions happen and no decisions are made between subsamples.

2 dice attacks across 20 games will be effected by each 2 dice subsample, because actions and decision are made between the subsamples.

>>53783436
Thats really looks pretty good, but i dont understand real effectiveness of nurgle and undivided icons and giving champion melee+pistol in squad that mustnt fight in melee

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>>53783449
Dryads won't get shit, their release is done and over, Ogres in power armor are possible

Skaven in power armor however already exist

What's the current consensus on Guard armies at the moment?

Seems like it's going to be quite hard for them to get 3 troops for a battalion detachment.

Anyone have the rules for shadow war? I can't find them in the mega

>>53783480
>Necromunda
It does not exist Shadow War has marines in its starter
>Inquisitor
Does not exist and it had marines

Also the air battle games was made to sell the shitty supplement. Hell can you even call the Knight game a game and not just a way to get Knights?

Also this >>53783448 how much is due to popularity and just spamming it everywhere we have no fucking idea

>>53783444
So i can only use units with the keyword khorne?
Like can i take a bloodletter and a chosen?
I'm so confused with army building in 8e.
Can i take choas daemons and csm in the same army without allied detachments?

>>53783529
500 conscripts, a few commissars and as many swarmlords as you can fit

>>53783525
I thought they already made dryad marines
>see sylvaneth

>>53783529

>a single infantry squad counts as a troop this edition
>its going to be quite hard for IG to get 3 troops

really activates the almonds

>>53783356
>i can mix necrons with my tomb kings
>use my lizardmen to fight space wolves
>stormcast fighting tyranids

Im okay with this

>>53782225
I now wish to make a chapter of these. Have it so they were made with vulkin gene seed and took to it too well. The absolutely useless sods run around trying to tame xenos like pets but fail miserably because all they know how to do is shoot things.

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>>53783525
Warpath already has space ratmen.
But Age of Sigmar at least is good for a laugh now and then

The masque of slaanesh used to be so cool. And now it's a +1 to hit. What the fuck happened?

>>53783556

Oh right I didn't know that, so do they not use platoons anymore? Can they still amalgamate squads?

>>53783547
read the core rules.
Under battleforged, and match play.
Everything about army building is there.
It will be faster to read than asking your question.

>>53782850
>>53782924
Also, while they're easy to paint, they're not so easy to assemble. Whoever decided to put the sprue contact points for the head on either side of the jaw deserves a slap.

>>53783522
the main reason is because im bad at rounding up an army. which nurgle banner?

>>53782673
You get them from literally buying anything but alien auxilaries. At least two for every infantry unit, 2 per suit (crisis and up) or 2 for every 3 stealth suits. 2 per vehicle. Back in the 4th edition we used to joke that you always had extra unassembled drones in your bits box, no matter how many you assemble they just keep appering.

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>>53783571
>Endriniggers
>These models exist

>>53783579
read the rules, it's quicker than typing out your questions, follow up question, and follow follow up question.
These aren't the confusing parts of the rules, they are very very easy to understand if you read to be book first.

>>53783600
-1 ld in 3". Icon of Despair

Wait so you can take guardsman on their own now? no need for a command squad/commisar?

>>53783621
Well, you'll need an HQ of some kind. And Commissars are never a bad idea.

>>53783621
Yes, learn to read.

Are you actually retarded?

>>53783621
see
>>53783610

>>53783547
you can take anything with the *Khorne* keyword in the same army. Some things have a "pick whatever keyword you want" like Chaos marines and Ork boyz. This lets you run the <mark of chaos> Khorne keyword or the Khorne klan in the same army.

there are naysayers who say this doesn't happen, of which you can't run Khorne demons in the same detachment as chaos marines with the mark of Khorne
>those people are also wrong.

I'm really fucking sick of seeing 1000 point or under lists running Ahriman. It's triggering my autism in 10 different ways

>>53783547

Just go read the fucking rules.

>>53782746
Maybe it's them fighting to the bitter end and when the immidiate battle eases down and the adrenaline starts dropping they kinda die off or become incapacitated due to shock, stress, torn limbs, broken bones, concussions, lacerations and punctures.

>>53783645
> Khorne demons in the same detachment as chaos marines with the mark of Khorne
You can cause <chaos>

>>53783580
i have but i'm still confused, just cannot find the detachments
Basically atm all i can gather is it's the same as 7e with the detachments

>>53782663
The LoC comes with no weapons after you've bought him in points, you have to actually equip him with the,
That's why he has the same power points

>>53783679
Keep reading. It's in the rulebook.

>>53783543
>just spamming it everywhere we have no fucking idea
Maybe if you're retarded. Vanilla marines are the most popular faction, and it's clealry not because they're in everything because if we count only the boxes that includes vanilla marines only the amount of boxes drops dramatically.
The "there only popular because GW pushes them" claim also flys in the face of the fact that marines have been popular long before GW put them in everything, they've been number one pf 40k factions since RT. It also flys in the face of the larger trend through out sci-fi for marine like things to be popular, which supports the idea that marines are popular because people like things like marines. And moreover, the assumption that people just buy the box set and play what they get is idiotic, most people don't buy a boxset for things they don't want, and those that do buy boxsets often sell what they don't want on Ebay, and even if they do keep them that in no way means they play them (which makes the idea thst people play marines just because they're in everything highly questionable) as the guy who says he has 100 marines has attested to.
correlation is no grounds to claim causation.

>>53783543
How bitter you must be.

>>53783694
Please ignore this
i think i missed what you meant

>>53783700
Marines were the posterboy in RT.
Your move Guliman.

>terminators still shit

>>53782867
Yeah, but flip 200 coins, and you're pretty sure at least one was heads

What is your local GW manager called?

Mine is called Matt.

>>53782963
>not only giving tank commanders vanquishers
>Shiggy

>>53783724
T-they're not shit! If they're in an open field against a small amount of GEQ, they totally kick ass!

>>53783733

Stephen.

>>53782432
Then the categories are inherently worthless to you, pick what you like or, take the top few choices and choose between them randomly.

>>53783721
>marines were posterboy in RT
they were also crimson fists and given those guys would necessarily popular by virtue of being the poster boys shouldn't we have had a surplus of ancient CF and in 3rd old black Templar armies?

>>53783721
But they weren't in every box. The fact that marines are the closest thing to the protagonist in the fluff is and entirely different (and far more likely) reason for marines popularity than "they come in everything."
I'd be a fool to dispute the claim that marines taking front and center stage in the fluff explains, at least in some significant part, why they're popular.

>>53783258
Waiting for an answer, I want to see your way of using storm bolters to kill genestealers point effectively.

>>53783679
pg 240-246.

Ask for page references, rather than a thousand rules questions.

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>>53783648
>I just return home from a demo for this guy
>first time he plays in 8th
>he brings Guilliman

>>53783733
I don't have a GW manger my FLGS is run by two blocks called Andre and John
solid dudes

>>53783700
This mad about marine spam that he has to write about how they are not spam.

Cheetahfag would love this

>>53783752

Hi Glasgow.

>>53783724
What game have you been playing? termies have been doing great for me. Maybe you're just a shit player?

>>53783696
Went full retard and missed out the pages
So basically what i understand is if i had a blood letter the rest has to be either keyword khorne or keyword chaos or both keywords?

>>53783399
Until you factor in orders which buff the rolls in any number of ways, and that lasguns can now kill anything
>butthurt eldar player detected

>>53783769
Why wouldn't he? There's nothing obviously wrong with doing that, as a newbie at least.

>>53782577
Woah wait a minute, honor guards and champions are independent characters now? And I saw someone's guard list where it just listed Commanders for 50 points a pop. Pls spoonfeed

>>53783778
Hey.

I'm in Pollok. You?

>>53783780
More like my opponent, faggot

>>53783529
So far haven't lost as guard. Armored guard and Mechguard are gonna be huge. Haven't tried blobbing yet. Infantry squads are now just cheap command point filler, might be a good idea to throw a sniper and heavy bolter in with them and let be

>>53783754
CF are marines.

>>53783815
What do you mean? What exactly makes you think termies are shit?

Will renegades, lost and the damned ever get their own rules?

I apologise for being dumb, but can someone spoonfeed me on reserves?

I think I can put 50% of my units in deep strike, measured in purely number of units, not points involved, is this right?

So I could tax spam something cheap and do more deep striking?

>>53783836
Only in forgeworld, so you'll never be sure if you can play them in a new store.

>>53783576
W8 for the codex fellow brother of Slaanesh... Then complain

>>53783808
Independent characters no longer exist, just characters. They can't join units, they are just floating out and about as their own unit.

However, they can't be targeted unless they are the closest unit. They can however be targeted by sniper rifles and possibly something that has a special rule to allow it.

Guard Commanders are 30 points now base. Platoon Commanders are 20 points. Commander can do 2 orders that auto pass, but are only 6 inches and Platoon Commanders can only do 1 order.

>>53783814

Eaglesham.

>>53783839
Yes.

I think its based on deployment though, so something in a drop-pod counts as one thing. Same with something in a rhino.

>>53783576
Masque does a lot more than +1 to hit dudebro

>>53783258
>muh mathammer
Off yourself

>>53783769
You should have taken him outback and beaten him with the model, then run over it.

>>53783828
I'm also a different anon from autismo.
I don't care if they are marines but by the nature of your reasoning, if marines are only popular because they are pushed by GW then there should be a surplus of the specific chapters that were pushed no?

Honestly i think it's a kid thing, they see them and go that's fucking coolio.
I had the same experience when i was an aklebiter and saw tau come to think of it, CF were still being sort of pushed back then

>>53783853
Wanna fight?

>>53783754
CF and BT are marines.

Marine conspiracy! They killed fantasy so they could make ground marines!

>>53783783
how do either of those thing change law of large numbers and variance decreasing with sample size increasing?

>>53783862
You're right, we shouldn't use dice averages to determine this dice based game.

Last game my predator's two heavy bolters fired into a genestealer horde and killed 1 model. Since we're not allowed to figure out dice averages, this is what I'm using as the baseline for all heavy bolters, 2 heavy bolters kill 1 genestealer.

A bit confused, so with power upgrades like weapons are free?

>>53783850
Interesting. Command squads are just nixxed?

>>53783890
Yes, power level takes wargear into account so that you can field whatever you models have on them at the same power level.

If you want more detailed balance use points.

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>>53783875
I don't know what you're trying to say here.

>>53783894
I think they just have a commander with some veterans rather than specialized guys who come alone.

>>53783894
Read
Your
Rules

>>53783894
Command squads are now Elite choices. 4 models with the same options as before. It's ridiculous now. You can fit any amount of squads in a transport as long as you don't exceed capacity, so technically you could take 3 Command squads in one Chimera and have them all kitted out with a special weapon. 12 Plasma Guns jumping out and rapid firing.

What happened to the tyranid guy on stream to be BTFO so much?

>>53783906
>getting mad that people aren't reading a ruleset that hasn't been released yet

>>53783793
A newbie should bring basic stuff.
Some tacs, some assaults, some termies, a dread and some vanilla characters, to understand the rules and how an army works.

Only after that you can appreciate and understand the value of special characters.

As a matter of fact, he stole my initiative and charged turn one with Guilliman, which killed a lot of my stuff. He now knows the rules, but nothing more really.

>>53783894
NO THEY ARE STILL THERE AND THEY ARE GREAT.
my medic personally saved my heavy weapon squad twice.
it was great

>>53783862
casuals are fucking cancer
>>53783889
just ignore the retards
>>53783918
there's a link to all the rules in the OP

>>53783918
>complete copy of rules available

>>53783926
shut the fuck up dummy

>>53783894
They're basically Special Weapons Squads, but 4 max with 4 Special Weapons hitting on 3+ vs 4+

>>53783917
I just came in too, I wonder what happened.

Do space marine chapters have non scout snipers?

Would it be unfluffy/heresy to paint a vindicare assassin as whatever chapter and field him as a space marine sniper

>>53783859
Oh yeah, it also does -1 to hit defensively.

Compared to "-5 to WS and can only move/run/fall back/charge d3", -5 to BS and no overwatch, and an S1 AP2 Ignores Cover hit per model in the unit", it's way more boring.

>>53783940
shut the fuck up dummy

>>53783944
THE FUCKING DEATHWATCH HAPPENED MY DUDE

FOR

THE

EMPEROR

>>53783920
No, newbies play whats awesome.

Guiliman is huge and looks great. So of course he's going to bring that.

Just because you think he should play bad units doesn't mean he has too.

>>53783959
Must have been a shit Tyranid list and shit player. Deathwach are trash.

>>53783902
Me neither. It came out lame and stupid sorry

>>53783864
Well we have Primaris Marines. Maybe if they just sold them as new marine models it would have been GW being GW, but making "Super Space Marine" doesn't feel right.

If we go full autistic and paranoid Primaris and the Ultramarines vs chaos focus would be like GW saying "Why are you not playing with marines?"

>>53783920
Wait, so the newbie brought an effective unit, did well with it, but he's somehow dumb for doing so?

This just reeks of salt.

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Look better?
Read over the rules for hive guard, is it true you can just walk behind an MC and shoot through them given you don't need line of sight for their weapons?

Do we have any links for the new indexes? I don't see them in the PDF libraries in OP.

>>53783968
lol hordememe retard pissing himself as the near future of getting blown the fuck out opening weekend starts to reveal itself to him

>>53783947
>Do space marine chapters have non scout snipers?
Not per the Codex Astartes

>Would it be unfluffy/heresy to paint a vindicare assassin as whatever chapter and field him as a space marine sniper

I'd think you'd be better off taking a Scout / SM and kit bash the fuck out of it and use him as a Count As

>>53783980
the books called chaos, imperium 1 & 2 and xenos 1 & 2 are the new indexes

>>53783950
>it's way more boring.

That's a feature, not a bug.

Welcome to 8e. Where if you want flavor you have to wait for your codex.

>>53783976
you always could

>>53783889
different anon, but you shouldn't use dice averages naively to make predictions.

First you need to remember the statistical rules and characteristics beyond averages. Like the law of large numbers, variance, maxes and mins, etc.
Then statistical assumptions. That when using multiple samples, those samples are from populations sharing the same characteristics. etc.

Then the assumptions used when translating the reality to the model. the geography of a gameboard can be modeled by geometry, but the full geometry is almost never used due to the complexity even on something like a gaming table. Abstraction can lead to flaws.

You've mostly been good, but once you get stuff like how many turns you can shoot, charging from over 9 inch, engaging without charging, etc, the statistical model starts breaking down.

>>53783976
How did you named units?

>>53783926
>casuals are fucking cancer
Holy shit are you WAAC fags that assblasted over the new rules already?
Good luck selling those riptides on ebay.

Seems we got Deathwatched instead

Truth be told, the Nid player was pretty shit

>>53784011
That's hilarious
>>53784017
Left click the name like 5 times

>>53783989
As we can see here, a Marine and timid homosexual player clutches onto his hope that his army will not be trash.

But he doesn't realize that it's already trash and you can't fix it.

>>53784023
>lol look at my shitty list and terrible gameplay do you wanna play with me I'm using power levels only
your existence is a fucking burden, fuck off back to the kids' table where you belong, the adults are trying to play

How are Deathwatch faring in 8th if they can BTFO the Nids? I've not really seen anyone talking about them.

>btfo
Nids confirmed shit again

>>53784024
It was the same with the Guard vs Custodes. Both the Tyranid and Guard player brought garbage and made stupid choices.

>>53784024
Context?

>>53784049
>No mention of list
>No mention of gameplay
>No mention of power levels
Strawman harder faggot.
I hope the guy who buys your riptides then gets a refund on his purchase and keeps the models.

>can't watch replay because "lol only available to subscribers"

Is GW so fucking money hungry that they'll charge their customers to be advertised to? Holy shit.

Does anyone know what the rules are for jump packs in 8th?

>>53784023
I just have to wait.
These 9 cheap riptides I got second hand will secure my dominion in a decade.

>>53783970
What's the point of a demo if you just bring the big character but don't know how the rest of the army works?

I brought a little bit of everything to show stuff, but still, he has now no idea what he can do with his tacs, dreads and transports and how they are different from 7th

>tfw want to make my own marine army
>tfw keep holding off because I'm not sure if regular marines are gonna get squatted

>>53784067
Tbf. Even the Primaris vs. Death Guard had questionable tactics.

>>53784105
They will be. It's less of squat and more of a fade.

>You'll end up being less supported than SOB.

>>53783881
>this much autism

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>space marines are iconic, their helmet is a stylized skull and their armor evokes musculature and strength
I just realized marines are stormtrooper ripoffs but without every soldier having a plasma gun that doesn't explode.
Though this is probably like Columbus finding America in tier of discovery.

>>53784131

See, that's what I'm worried about. But Primaris seem way harder to play than regular marines, because everything's so specialized.

Looked up another game of Tyranids vs Deathwatch to see if maybe those 2 were just retarded. The other game I saw was very close. Maybe Deathwatch is pretty good this edition.

>>53783769
The 25% rule, use it.

>>53784087
I know it sucks to lose game after game, but at least the people at your LGS are still willing to waste their time playing your garbage army, right?

>>53784153
They're starting off specialized. But eventually they'll add Primaris units which are flexible.

>The Marine infantry kits are too new to obsolete. They need to run through their stock and make more money before making them redundant.

>>53783969
I disagree.
The new box is no different from DV or the previous space wulf v orks or black reach or battle for maccrage or BT v DE and so on.
I've been of the opinion that it's the best choice for them to do this, marines are oddly versatile units and can be used for come to think of it half the armies of the game and that's not a mistake.

You could say it's a feedback loop, GW supports them and thus people buy more and thus GW supports them. But while there is some truth to More support == more players i don't think that this has no limit. There are diminishing returns limited by people's own interests. and outside of WAAC folk (who should be playing eldar) i don't see so many people jumping into superhuman if there wasn't some sort of psychological appeal. Much like the old women == nid players meme

I play guard for example my army's sculpts are predate 5th edition, and the ones that are not came out in 5th. I don't think we've ever had a starter set and we've gotten little non FW support. And yet we haven't faded into SoB status. We've been doing fine for quite awhile because some people want to play a conventional army.

>>53784151
>Those unpauldroned shoulders.

>>53784186
>SoB are a better army than marines
>marine codex is going to be a broken op mess
>poster boys can't suck!
>give them more models quick!

I don't really think they'll make it broken, but I give GW 4 codex release before they break 8th with bad rules

>>53784151

>Space marines being star wars ripoff

>Not the actual IG stormtroopers

Are you drunk, Anon?

>>53783263
I know I'm gonna get yelled at for this but.. where/what is this army builder?

>>53784151
There isn't an original idea or design in the whole of 40k

>>53784211
What's that? Guardsmen haven't received a Monstrous Creature yet? Guess, GW now needs to release a Guardsman...inside of a Guardsman.

In a non-homoerotic way of course. Got to keep it family-friendly.

>>53784242
They're the ones with the same dopey helmets and painted on abs.

>>53784151
>beakie's are a ripp off of star wars.
keep lauffin mate we all know it's a rip off 2000ad

>>53784245
https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#!/rosterCreator
Someone put this in the fucking OP.

>>53784099
Maybe he wanted to see how big damn heroes worked? Could you lay off the salt?

Does a more legible copy of 8th's core rules then the one in the leaks mega exist, as of yet?

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>>53784151
>I just realised [nerd-relevant IP #1] is a ripoff of [nerd-relevant IP #2]
>boy I sure do hope fans of [nerd-relevant IP #2] don't get mad about this statement teeheehee

>>53784091
I think they just have fly. So they can move above their minimum movement (probably 0) but below their maximum movement (probably 12) and can pass over walls and models. Also they can retreat and still fire and charge.

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Where is the line between a WAACfag and a regular person who is trying to make a competitive list?

>>53784211
Personally I think GW is like a video game company making realistic military shooters.
Marines are that a safe bet.

>>53784257
Nah.
I just want plastic steel legion/first borns
Maybe some plastic rapiers.

>>53784172
Who cares, it was a demo.

What bothers me is that I always was the guy that teach to new guys, and this time I don't think I was able to do a good job.

I know he will play other games and when he'll find a unit behave differently and he'll go "But anon didn't explain this to me".
Well bitch, you didn't get me the chance because half of your army was fucking Guilliman and the other half was centurion grav and some other shit.

>>53784284
Are they an asshole?

>>53784055
People seem to be saying that deathwatch got worse, this edition, assumedly because they are a low-model count army in hordes: the edition.

>>53784282

Shit. Celestine doesn't have deep strike.

>>53784278
>star wars
>nerd ip
I have some bad news anon.

File: 2268b000d46a7815e65eecb03067e2d2.jpg (73KB, 564x620px) Image search: [Google]

73KB, 564x620px

>>53784151
If Roboute Guilliman and the Ultramarines fell to Chaos would Ultramar basically be the Galactic Empire?

>>53783914
>12 Plasma Guns jumping out and rapid firing.
I kinda want to do this to be my new mech Vets but I'm debating 1 commander ordering 2 command squads firing supercharged vs just 3 standard plasma squads.

>>53784284
Net listing?

>>53783933
>Being willing to wait a week to not have to deal with the shitty scans
It's okay, I'm sure your extra four games will really make the difference.

>>53784344
The Imperium is basically the galactic empire, but less competently ruled.

How would y'all rate Kroot units in this edition? Thinking of getting some Krootox counts-as for some melee punch and tanking charges. 6+ save might suck, but good movement, 3W and T5 a piece with stronk fists and an autocannon each. Seems like a steal at 34 points a piece.

Is there any way to easily paint black marine armour? I want to play either Black Templars or Black Legion.

>>53784278
Starwars is pretty widely accepted my dude.
but yeah
i mean we all know it's a rip off of starcraft anyway
:^)

>>53783850
Stop helping people who have clearly not even made an attempt to read the rules.

>>53784344
That dreadT-ST in the background looks so sad.

>>53783585
and the legs too
goddam they are a bitch to fit on the base

>>53784387
I like talking and explaining things so it satisfies my itch too.

>>53784389
>even in death I'm I still serve

>>53784376
Black legion are easy because you've got the gold trim to break things up/make the model interesting.

>>53784282

but when I look at jump pack units they have both fly and jump pack as key words. If all jump pack does is give fly, isn't that kind of redundant?

>>53784355
>I'm debating 1 commander ordering 2 command squads firing supercharged vs just 3 standard plasma squads.

Three Command Squads = 12 PGs or 24 shots at 12". 24 shots = 16 Hits and 4 Overheats

Two Command Squads, Taking Aim= 8 PGs or 16 shots at 12". 16 shots = 12 Hits and .44 Overheats

>I'd personally go Officer to order. Either way they have to be focused, but Officerless they're blowing themselves up.