/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>53780426

reposting
>>53740826 →

I joined the game a ways in when they started; there are about nine of us, and we run it with two DMs because it's a lot to handle. We're a group of friends that have been RPing and writing together for a long time but even then it's arduous, but addictive.

The campaign was inspired by Stranger Things, because it had just come out. It began with everyone as normal humans. The lives of a group of college-age kids playing D&D in an apartment were upset when a strange monster broke in and abducted their friend. They set out to find him; a couple of kids, a cop, and a doctor from the local hospital. From what I heard they ran around town for months chasing down leads, and encountering new factions and night folk. By the time they had tracked the beast down and killed it, their friend was gone-- abducted by a powerful Moros mage for reasons unknown.

The doctor was eventually revealed to be the leader of the local vampires, one of the kids died in a motorcycle chase and became a Geist, and the mage just obliterated the cop. He also became a geist. Another one of the kids got abducted by the Fae and spent a few months in Arcadia, then came back within days in real time. Another kid hooked up with a local master-dude and became a mage apprentice. During the search they also met up with some werewolves who had moved into the area, looking for an artifact that might have been tied to the mage. Everyone agreed to help one another so that all the tasks could be more easily done. So by the time I came in, there was only one regular human left.

And then I came in, playing a redneck ex-marine who won the lottery and moved to the area so that he could find and kill Bigfoot.

>>53780837
Gradually, the plot shifts from finding the lost kid to the MacGuffins that the werewolves are looking for, though the plot thread isn't forgotten. My character comes in when the group are in dealing with a pack of Pure who are pushing the local packs out of the area. It turns out that there's a powerful artifact hidden somewhere in the town and they're an advance group sent to scout the place.

We kill the pack leader and send the rest of his pals running, but the Pure are really dead-set on finding this thing so they send in yet another pack, whose alpha is a cell phone company CEO and searches with a lot more finesse. He basically replaces the police force with private security and makes our lives a hell of a lot worse.

During this arc we find the lost kid and kill the moros guy in an epic multi-level boss fight in the sewers. The kid's alive, but in a coma, so we put him in the hospital and focus on this macguffin, which may or may not bring about the apocalypse.

we eventually locate it within a specifically designed labyrinth in the underworld, accessible only by an avernian gate in an abandoned nightclub, guarded by a nightmarishly scary guardian. We sort of go back and forth over whether or not we should leave it where it is because it's safer or whether we should just take it. We decide to leave it, but the Pure pack leader forces our hand by sending in a gang, during which one of our characters dies (a changing breeds were-raven who replaced one of the werewolves) and then occupying the nightclub with his bought out police force.

>>53780825
>How to geek the mage ?
>Can humans or other splats hope to go toe to toe with a mage, or is an indirect approach safer ?

First and foremost, it's very unlikely that a character will even know the mage is a mage. The Quiescence prevents anyone without a supernatural merit, without any exception, from remembering any supernal magic at all. Even watch a video or reading an account triggers memory alteration or loss.

And, yes, it's possible to kill a mage, although very difficult. Mages' powers are very varied and quite strong. Don't assume you can surprise them, know that many have effective insta-kill or equivalent spells that can affect an area or multiple targets, virtually all mages have one or more means to quickly escape danger, and all have some forms of reflexive Mage Armor.

If a mage escapes and seeks revenge, the assailant might as well update his will and commit suicide, for the alternative is to ghastly to contemplate.

Also, mages are very social beings and group together for mutual protection. If you manage to kill one, don't be surprised if his cabal or friends decide to retaliate. Again, magic ensures there are fates far worse than death, and your loved ones might now be targets.

If you manage to know about mages and decide to hunt them, your career will likely be very short, painful and messy. It's certainly possible, but the risks invariably outweigh the rewards.

>>53781042
We go back and forth on schemes trying to kill this mother fucker, but he's ridiculously hard to reach, and it's difficult when some of us are more willing to just murder innocents. Eventually, one of the werewolves just gets tired of waiting and goes to the guy's cell phone factory to just straight up assassinate him during the day, and we go to bail him out. It ends in a major fuck up right outside the front door, and the were-raven's player who just re-rolled a were-tiger gets her ass handed to her by the Pure's totem who is a rank 4 lightning spirit. She berserks, and my guy has to face her down in the street or she'll fucking murder the rest of the unconscious party. So I put her down, and hastily grab my pals and drive off before the cops arrive.

>>53781145
there's a fuckton more but im losing steam. We've had a Mastigos master mage at one point who got hit by a Barrett .50 cal round and basically died in one shot, and my redneck dude just got his arm lopped off by some asshole True Fae. A lot of characters have been switched out or retired or blown to hell.

The moral of the story is, if you don't have an Acanthus with you, don't fucking go into the Hedge.

>>53781106
>and all have some forms of reflexive Mage Armor.

So like

if a mage steps on a land mine or is stabbed while he sleeps

he can cast a spell and just be ok?

>>53781359

Mage Armor is not a spell, it is an Attainment. Mage Armor is a power a mage obtains when he attains two dots in any Arcanum Each of the 10 Mage Armors provides a different defense. For instance, Forces Armor provides one level of armor, including against fire and electricity, per level of Forces, while Death Armor provides an advantage similar to vampires where all damage is considered Bashing and you will not keel over when all your health boxes are full. Other armors provide significant Defense bonuses, often against firearms and surprise attacks.

Note that two dots in an Arcanum also provides access to the Shielding Practice, that depending on circumstances, can be quite impressive. For example, a Forces 2 spell can effectively render a mage immune to ALL kinetic damage - bullets, knives, land mines, etc. would all be useless against such a mage.

>Don't bring a gun to a fight with an Obrimos

>>53781634

Hm

as someone who's never played mage, this just sounds like wish fulfillment trash. What's the point?

>>53781687
It sounds impressive against street level threats, but mage is not a street level game. Bullet immunity doesn't help you when you're up against old gods clawing at the foundations of the world or sentient memes enslaving swaths of people.

>>53781968
But you're better, almost out of the gate, than 99.9% of things that exist, no? That's why it feels sort of wish fulfillment-y to me.

>>53780674
In my Changeling game, very well

>>53781999
That's true, but out of the gate they're suddenly on the radar of things much bigger and scarier than they are, things that would never have noticed them before. It's also worth bearing in mind that mage's powers are broadly applicable to only a segment of reality. Starter Forces mage that can laugh off bullets (so long as Sleepers weren't around to see him cast that) can't do diddly about a ghost sapping his life or a vampire dominating his will or a changling ensnaring his fate or a spirit hijacking his flesh.

>>53781999
>almost out of the gate

A Gnosis 1 Mage is still street tier, and can be eviscerated by a woof who is also starting out.

>99.9% of things that exist

What about stuff that doesn't exist? Like every Abyssal Intruder ever?

No Mage can be good at everything. The bulletproof Obrimos the other anon mentioned can't do much against Ghosts, Spirits, or a clever Changeling's pledge. There are plenty of nasty things out there, like the God Machine, Rank 6+ Spirits, Ghosts, or Abyssals. And of course, there are other Mages, who can do all the tricks you can do.

>>53781260
Thanks for sharing mate

>>53781687
>>53781999

Again, Mage is a higher power level game, and the standard mage adversaries are similarly powerful, if not more so.

While true that a common street thug stands absolutely no chance against a mage, never forget that your mage is not supposed to be fighting muggers and gangbangers.

There a lot of Very Bad Stuff (tm) in the CofD, and mages often deal with the some of the worst of the worst. Let the vampires, werewolves and changelings deal with the less world-ending threats. There's more than enough terrible crap for everyone.

Awakening's style and setting is certainly not for everyone, possible you included. That's alright, there's something in the CofD for everyone.

However, don't presume that the different PC splats are balanced against one another. If you do, you'll be very disappointed.

>>53782248
Quick question. I hear Prince of 100 000 leaves is rank 8 entity. However for someone that does not read mage outside of fluff how does abyssal entity of given rank compare to say spirit or indigam of same rank?

>>53782173
>The bulletproof Obrimos the other anon mentioned can't do much against Ghosts, Spirits, or a clever Changeling's pledge

Hold on..., are we going to have to now discuss the versatility of Prime...?

Nevertheless, we are indeed in basic agreement. The nature and threat level of mage antagonists are generally much greater than the other splats, including other asshole mages.

Another point to consider is how mage groups are often much stronger than the sum of their individual parts. While certainly true that werewolf pack and similar splat groups can be quite impressive, a cabal with mages of multiple Paths quickly tend to eliminate any and all perceived weaknesses given the vast breadth of the Arcana and their ability to provide such benefits to other friendly mages.

For instance, you really don't want to be a ghost, spirit or changeling, or even group of such beings, fighting an Obrimos who's also pals with a Moros, Thyrsus or Acanthus.

>>53782142
There is also the Hellmenth.

>>53781999
It's a roleplaying game, anon. It's inherently wish-fulfilly.

People play Mage to imagine being a character fettered only by their creativity. People play Vampire to let go of humanity and mortality. People play Werewolf because they lack the courage to just let their dogs fuck them.

It's all wish fulfilment.

>>53782407
What if he has a cat and still plays woof?

>>53782321

Rank is often a bad indicator of comparable power level among different entities.

A Rank 8 Abyssal entity is a universe-ending threat.

Luna and Helios are Rank 8 Spirits, and they probably would not fare well in a direct conflict with the Prince.

>>53782419
>What if he has a cat and still plays woof?

Only those infused with the Abyss care for such terrible and selfish creatures as cats.

>>53782419
Then they are a sick son of a bitch, and you bid them good day.

>>53782422
I see. And how do things like Scelesti, Tremere, Mad and such rank against normal(no frills) mages. I understand that banishers are normal mages who just got one case of bad awakening

>>53782321
The Prince is a sentient alternate timeline of Very Bad Things, that, if fully recorded, will replace the timeline of Earth with itself, casting the world and its history into the Abyss.

I'm a bit spotty on my Rank 8 Spirits, but I'm pretty sure that Luna has been stated to be capable of making everyone who sees the moon insane, and inventing new races of shapeshifters. A fully manifested Prince can tell her "you are fake news," pimpslap her into the Abyss, and replace her with his own anti-moon.

>>53782712
And I understand that Prince is jut one of number of such beings(Annunaki)?

>>53782566
A Scelesti will favor a subtle approach, because every other Mage has a "kill on sight" policy for them. As for what they can do, on top of whatever magic they have, it depends on what kind of Abyssals they can summon.

A Tremere is basically a Moros with Death dots who can eat souls to prolong his life.

>>53782836
That is correct

>>53782856
Man Abyss is some scary shit

>>53780674
whats the "core book" for this setting?

Something logically equivalent to the PHB from D&D.

>>53782889
Everything that is not is in the Abyss. It's a roiling pit of stillborn universes. One of my favorite abyssal intruders is a set of mathematical equations that gradually rewrite local physics as they're solved.

>>53783006
What about Lower Depths? I understand there isn't a lot of material about them(Duat from Mummy and Inferno are LD from what I understand). From what I understand they fall into(from mage perspective)

>Meh dimension without one arcana
or
>Fuck if I know
categories?
>

>>53782836
Yeah, but most Annunaki are too busy sleeping. The Prince is the most proactive of them.

>>53783097
>What about Lower Depths?

The Lower Depths tend to be more a catch-all category for the near limitless number of places that don't fit neatly anywhere else, and are not considered part of the Supernal or Fallen World (Material, Shadow, Underworld, Astral). You can make any individual Depth as bad as may suit your chronicle. The Strix from Requiem also come from a Lower Depth.

Mages like to categorize everything, particularly that which they do not fully understand.

On a related note, as of 2e, I'm still not sure whether Changeling Arcana and the Hedge are part of the Fallen World, Lower Depths, or their own special category entirely.

>>53783097
Pretty much. They're alternate realities, cysts growing on the fabric of the reality. A couple threads ago an anon suggested that Changeling Arcadia could be a Lower Depth, as a world without Truth, by lacking the Prime Arcana. There's not a lot on them, though.

>>53783146
>Yeah, but most Annunaki are too busy sleeping. The Prince is the most proactive of them.


They just want you to believe they're sleeping.

Don't ever let your guard down, or you'll be sorry.

>Cthulhu beckons...

>>53783243

The Lower Depths are not alternate realities, that would be the Abyss. They are definitely not the same.

Anyone have any interesting Nimbus ideas?
I'm sort of drawing a blank for my character because I'm not really sure what they should look like other than "strange misty things".

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>>53783572
Hmm I looked through my art folder and only found something like this

>>53783572

What's your character's Path and Legacy, if any?

>>53783572
What's your Path, and what's you most used/highest dot Arcana?

>>53783720 >>53783729
I'm playing a Thrysus from an Indian proximi family who describe themselves as being descended from Gods (at least I think so.) And they actually have some proof to back up that claim!

This family is pretty important in the Silver Ladder and are sort of everywhere in the background.

>>53783869

Which Indian gods? Use that for inspiration.

>>53783939
Asura.
They claim to be descended from Asura.
I was thinking of going all multi-armed, multi-headed monster thing but none of the example character's seem to have that sort of nimbus.
It's all a swoosh of color and fog.

>>53784061
>t none of the example character's seem to have that sort of nimbus.

You can choose any nimbus you want. Don't feel limited by the example characters, particularly now that the nimbus has a greater focus in 2e.

The mage's nimbus can be as simple as images of Asura transposed on the mage when casting spells.

>>53784061
Look at some of the 1e examples of Nimbuses, there's way more variety. Start out with it just being the outline, maybe a couple extra ghostly arms and have the Asura form grow more and more defined as you get more Gnosis.

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>>53784315 >>53784467
Alright then I will go ahead and develop this nimbus idea further. But just incase the ST will not allow it, I'll also come up with a billowy-fog nimbus as well.

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>>53784061
So a more spirity version of this?

A couple questions about casting spells.

Say I can see a car and I want to flip the light switch in the car.

Do I target the car or the switch I technically can't see?

Can a forces spell bypass the password on a device like a phone?

>>53785182
Yeah that's pretty much what I had in mind.
Perhaps a little bit more monster-y as an Asura I think should be.

I'm trying to make a vampire be friends with my mage. I used mind to charm him for the story but I want him as an ally. He's a nosferatu who can control rats and turn invisible if that helps. I don't know much about vampires. It's owod/mage20 so vampire20 rules if it matters.

Also there's a chance he's blood bonded to a bad guy, but we're gonna kill that guy hopefully. If not, is there a way to break that? Just in case. Thanks

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>>53785108
>>53785182
Something like this might work too.

>>53785578

Hey, I remember that book.

Shadow magic fucking sucked.

>>53785723
Eh, it was ok. True name magic, now...

>>53785809
My 3.5 group was sure Truenamers were OP, on account of them actually believing the "ALL DAY CASTING" meme and thinking 10d6 at level 15 was absurdly high damage.

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>>53785578
THIS

>>53785230
>Can a forces spell bypass the password on a device like a phone?

Easily. Forces 1, or 2 at most.

As for the light switch in the car, if the switch is part of the car, just target the car. Easy Forces or Matter spell.

>>53788160
>bump

Forces 2 ?

>>53788240
Time 3, Temporal Summoning.

>>53782173
>No Mage can be good at everything. The bulletproof Obrimos the other anon mentioned can't do much against Ghosts, Spirits, or a clever Changeling's pledge

This is running with the assumption that the respective Obrimos hasn't ventured beyond his/her two Ruling Arcana.

Which is usually not the case with Mages.

>>53781634
I'm looking at the 2E book right now and I'm not seeing anything that could possibly render you immune to all kinetic damage with a Forces 2 spell.

>>53788640
>Hes too stupid to understand creative thaumaturgy

>>53788640
It's how the specific Practice functions.

It's pretty straight forward.

>>53788640
It's not in the example spells, but an Arcanum-swapped version of Alchemist's Touch can render you immune to kinetic bashing damage, and decrease kinetic lethal damage by potency.

Then you apply a reach option extending that immunity to lethal, and the reduction to aggravated.

So it can't quite render you immune to "all" kinetic damage, but it can render you either immune or resistant to almost all forms of kinetic damage.

>>53788863
Mage shouldn't be THIS privileged

fucking mary sues

>>53782566
Scelesti are mages of varying types that are willing to consort with The Abyss. The main threat of them is whether they have any abyssal entities with them. Often they also have strange abyssal attainments from their left handed legacies.

Tremere are mages of any path that think to themselves "what if vampirism is an arcana?" And they then proceed to learn legacies that allow them to eat souls to extend their lives and increase their Gnosis. The main threat of tremere is what happens when you lose to them, because if they are potent enough you can kiss you soul and awakening goodbye

>>53788863
Yeah, see, my ST would look at the description for Alchemist's Touch, which specifically mentions damage coming from the intrinsic property of the material, and then tell me to fuck off, or make me roll at fuckoff levels.

Do your STs just let you go hog wild or something?

>>53788640
Alot of people push stupid shit into the shielding practice, like shielding yourself from death means you cant ever die, or shielding yourself from gravity means you fly off into space, however shielding oneself from kinetic energy which is under the purview of Forces is a valid application. Mage armor protects from general harm, shielding protects from specific harm.

>>53788933
>Do your STs just let you go hog wild or something?

Probably not. Because anon is properly utilizing the mechanics.

>>53788933
The other Anon meant using Creative Thaumaturgy to make a Forces version of Alchemist's Touch that protects you from kinetic energy.

>>53788897
You obviously don't know what that word means.
So stop using it.
Power =/= Sueism

>>53788933
And the intrinsic properties of matter should be any difficult to the intrinsic properties of different forms of energy?

How else would you fluff a Shielding spell that protects against a certain form of energy?

>>53788933
Take a breather, friend.

Mages are truly phenomenal.

Could a Master of Fate take on a True Fae?

Or would Archmastery be mandatory?

>>53789019
I understand that. But my ST would apply a limitation to that spell that would require either more reaches or just not allow the spell to entirely make you immune.

>>53789133
Then your ST is intentionally dumbing things down.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

>>53789133
You still need a high Potency to resist things like getting shot with a fifty caliber.

>>53789119
True Fae are Rank 7 entities per Imperial Mysteries. Yes, you want to be an Archmaster, preferably with Fate 7 so you can Excise their powers.

>>53789239
True Fae =/= Old Gods of the Thistle

At least by current 2e canon

Still a good indicator of their relative power

>>53789301
>At least by current 2e canon

What did they change and where did the change it?

>>53789119
The thing about Archmages is that they can potentially match -anything- given enough prep time.

One could even triumph over a rank 8+ entity after a certain point.

>>53789358
The Old Gods of the Thistle are denizens of the Supernal, and as of 2e the two Arcadias are no longer tied.

Supernal Arcadia isn't even a 'place' to begin with, unlike "true" Arcadia.

>>53788931
Meh, just steal a sleepers soul and attach it back to you. Fuck them, you'll have your magic back. Thats assuming you survived after soul removal.

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>>53789372

Could an Archmage take on Luna?

>>53789395
being non places was a stupid idea, look at all the books (atleast one) they could write describing the supernal realms.....

>>53789432
I disagree! Current Supernal is best Supernal.

It's actually engaging and makes the most sense thematically speaking. Especially in contrast to the Abyss.

The Supernal is everything that IS
The Abyss is everything that ISN'T

>>53789481
I'd argue the abyss is more like everything that 'CAN'T'

>>53789426
Yes. He then gets pimp slapped by the Siddhas of Spirit who are pissed off that he is messing with the Shadow so much.

>>53789743
Indeed, the fact that chantries become wendings when a archmaster dies, mean that shit they can die. who knew? (you'd never know this from 99% of the posts about em)

Legacyfag here.
Finished my exams.

Who's got an update request for me?

>>53789914

Lords of the Inanimate

>>53789863
Much harder than it sounds though. They just get sent back into their Golden Roads.

A mild annoyance to them.

>>53789426
Luna is a motherfuckin' god

Archmages can't do shit to her/him

>>53790241
No, they can reflexively return to their golden road, but dont auto return if somehow killed outside. They can also be killed inside their golden road too.

>>53790310
That's even worse

Mary Sue wizards

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>>53790295
She can try and contest it, but if she fails...
Luna just become the Rank 0 Spirit of a tasteful arrangement of petunias in a hand-made clay vase.

>>53790339
whats worse is people not being able to read the fucking books and spewing drivel like "send back to their Golden Roads". No wonder people think all sorts of wierd shit if people spew utter bullshit.

In the unlikely event of catching a mage in a situation he cant act, then its better than him just returning to his golden road on death. I cant think of a situation where he couldnt act reflexively easily but it might happen....

>>53790295
>una is a motherfuckin' god
>Archmages can't do shit to her/him

You *really* need to read Imperial Mysteries again.

"Motherfuckin' gods" are precisely the types of antagonists dealt with by archmages. The limit on archmages is not so much can they do something, but whether other archmages will try to stop them because of the Pax Arcana.

>>53790405
Luna also has transfiguration in "Making you super insane" so you better pull of your shit (and find the Quintessence for it) before she gets to act. If she gets to act first your fucked..

>>53790439
Luna isn't omniscient.
But yes, it might turn into a case of first on the draw, if the Archmage doesn't prepare for that.

>>53789220
>You still need a high Potency to resist things like getting shot with a fifty caliber.

No, you need the basic Forces 2 spell with a single extra Reach to immunize the mage from all lethal kinetic damage (and Potency aggravated). This is well within the capabilities of a starting mage, no less a more experienced wizard or someone with the appropriate Rote.

>>53790459
Which is the whole point, prepared archmages can do virtually anything but finding the quintessence for it might involve something stupidly hard or inconvient. Luna on the other hand can just spend her infinate essence and get transfig like abilities within her purview.

Depends whats in Luna's purview as to what she will or will not know, also she has thousands of spirits beneath her, plus furries etc. She might not be omnisient but not all archmages are either.

>>53788573
>running with the assumption that the respective Obrimos hasn't ventured beyond his/her two Ruling Arcana.

Those types of assumptions have resulted in the death or far worse of many a mage's enemies.

>>53782907
Depends on the edition.

For OWoD, the Monster the Thing are the core books and all you need to play (Vampire the Masquerade, Werewolf the Apocalypse, etc.)

For 1e NWoD, you have the World of Darkness core book, then each Monster the Thing is its own 'this thing' core book that builds onto the WoD core. For 1e NWoD, you need both the WoD core and a monster core to run, because of the build on top of rules.

For 2e NWoD, you're back to each Monster the Thing, plus CofD core, being the core book. You only need the individual books, like Vampire the Requiem 2nd Edition.

>>53790524
Thats creative thaum as there is no written example, but yes i agree with it, not sure what the reach is for but yeh.

I mean Space 3 + Forces 2 makes a ban that will stop ALL forces not just kinetic afterall

>>53783222
>I'm still not sure whether Changeling Arcana and the Hedge are part of the Fallen World, Lower Depths, or their own special category entirely.

Has DaveB, DavidH, Rose or any other OPP developer hinted at an answer in 2e?

Reminder that an Archmage of Spirit can give himself rank 8 Influences to counteract Luna's own.

This is also 2nd edition. Archmages are going to gather Exceptional Successes with ease.

Good luck, Luna.

>>53790524
Though to throw a bone in to people who can't think of ways around it, a Mage who knows this may either resort to non-kinetic damage (such as flamethrowers), or use their own abilities to enhance their damage into Agg and pump up its potency to push through.

Or they might bring along some Sleepers, so that your defensive spell eventually fails as Dissonance kicks in, when the Sleepers are incredulous that you can take an anti-tank rifle to the face without wincing.

Or you know... Use Dispelling with Prime 1, Forces 1, or Prime 4 to suspend the operation of your spell long enough to riddle you with bullets.


The best way to approach it isn't to bitch and complain about something being overpowered, but find ways around it for when you need to. But let them have a little bit of fun first.

>>53790551
Prime 3 is enough to turn a shotgun into a weapon that can kill all manner of ephemeral entities.
Motherfucking Ephemeral Enchantment.
With the Reach option to make it an entity's Bane.

Hilariously enough, a starting Obrimos Mage can take Prime 3, Forces 2, with Rotes for both Kinetic Blow and Ephemeral Enchantment.
Which grants him the ability the ability to cast both spells on himself, and throw coins at Spirits, dealing agg damage, and stunning them.

>>53790649
except kinetic blow says "This only works on the subject’s unarmed attacks".

Last i knew throwing coins isnt a unarmed attack.

>>53790597

I fully agree that another mage could work around kinetic immunity, but few other splats have such versatility or knowledge of mage capabilities.

Note also that assuming a parallel to Alchemist's Touch, a mage could spend more Reach to immunize himself against other forms of energy like heat and fire.

Further, Dissonance only kicks in after the scene. It will not help those Sleepers much at all.

Lastly, our hypothetical Obrimis will not be sitting around like an idiot with his magical thumb up his ass while he's being attacked, immunity notwithstanding. An Obrimos has a myriad of very effective offensive options (I'm a big fan of having fun with gravity). Simply, a conventional melee, weaponry or explosive assault against an experienced Obrimos is little more than suicide by mage.

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>>53790590
The Astral, Shadow, Underworld, and Hedge are all part of the Fallen World.

>>53790592
This is what I don't get. Why is there even an 'Archmage vs Luna' debate when the former can just become a superior god without actually becoming one?

>This is also 2nd edition. Archmages are going to gather Exceptional Successes with ease.
More like something that needs to be addressed. No god is going to Withstand an Archmage with such a dicepool to draw on.

>>53790717
You should probably read the final Reach option then, hombre.

>>53790728
*a prepared mage. He needs to have cast the shielding spell. Now alot of people on this board seem to assume mages are retarded and wouldnt do that. And there have been many arguments along the lines of "Why would a mage cast x spell every day blah blah."

But still, if prepared a mage can be a powerhouse, but unprepared or caught by surprise (not every mage has time, at least at first) then they can be dealt with.

>>53790717
>except kinetic blow says "This only works on the subject’s unarmed attacks".

Use Reach options to allow the bonuses to weapon attacks. That's why the Anon suggested the spell as a Rote, to get the extra Reach.

>>53790728
It very likely is.

However if that Obrimos is Wise, he will likely try and extract himself from the situation to avoid potentially causing Paradox, or Dissonance and Quiescence in any potential bystanders.

Also potentially to avoid having to kill a Sleeper.

>>53790768
>But still, if prepared a mage can be a powerhouse, but unprepared or caught by surprise (not every mage has time, at least at first) then they can be dealt with.

Mages are the best at improvisation. Even when unprepared they're going to be formidable.

>>53790773
touche.

>>53790768
Only a Mage that's starved from Mana for some reason or is pants on head retarded doesn't put up a day long Mage Armor as part of their morning routine.

>>53790841
mage armour only lasts a scene for 1 mana now dude with no option to make it last a day

>>53790861
Speaking of which can one do a reflexive action if one cant do a normal action?

Say when surprised? Could a mage reflexively put his mage armour up? The fact its called a reflexive action and the mage doesnt get one suggests that he cant put it up before getting surprise shot/hit by a car blah blah right?

>>53790861
Man 2e really is shit.

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>>53790439
>>53790526
I'd say Luna could tackle a pre-Transfigured Archmage.

Quintessence is hard to acquire, sure. But once it's up? Permanent, absolutely permanent.
Luna won't be able to match a wizard entitled to the power of "! can command all spirits using my will and my will alone!"

She's beefier than most, but she just doesn't match the wizard who's actually specialized to slay actual gods.

>>53790902
Nope, 1e ritual casting is shit, havign 110 dice to do whatever you want is stupidly pants on head retarded. If your players havent yet got wards n shit of double or tripple digit figures potency yet then they are shit.

2e curbs that but also doesnt take much of the power of mages away from them by adding other stuff.

>>53790841
>>53790861

Still, I would assume most mages cast one or more appropriate Shielding spells on themselves daily considering wizards are certifiably paranoid bastards.

They can always cancel the spell if they need to cast something else and don't have enough spell control.

Better safe than sorry. Never forget that the CofD has some really bad folks out and about.

>Don't trust vampires, incinerate them

>>53790900
According to the rules, reflexive actions can be taken at any time and doesn't take your turn in combat.

So if you're aware of the attack, even for the slightest fraction of a second, you can activate Mage Armour.

So a bomb goes off? If you're at groud zero, then you can't activate.
If you're far enough away that you hear the explosion before it hits you, you could activate Mage armour.

Someone shoots you in the head from 2 blocks away? You're dead before you can activate.
Someone grabs a knife our of their bag glowing with lethal energies and goes to stab you, even if it's not your turn, you can reflexively activate Mage Armour.


This is a major flaw of Mage Armour, and yet ANOTHER reason people should consider using intelligent forms of Shielding, or perhaps Weaving.
Matter 3 can turn any clothing into a bulletproof vest as a spell, as well as the "use matter to affect attacks" applicaiton of Mage Armour.

>>53790861
Why use Mage Armor? It's amazing because of its reflexive nature.

You use the Practice of Shielding for day-long protective maintenance.

>>53790946
Yep, but then they are stll human. People leave the house every day knowing it'll rain without a umbrella. I assume some mages might do the same. It'll weed out the bad ones quickly though.

>>53790902
>Man 2e really is shit.

Did you miss the earlier part of the discussion about the badassery of Arcanum 2 Shielding spells?

Mage Armor is just bonus failsafe to the Mage template.

>>53790961
Mage armor can defend against bullets.

Same with Celerity.

>>53790961
>Someone shoots you in the head from 2 blocks away? You're dead before you can activate.

Nope. it activates. It's supernaturally reflexive.

>>53790999
Some can. Others can't.

>>53790999
if its up. I was talking about putting it up...

>>53790556
thanks!

>>53790981
>Yep, but then they are stll human

No need to be nasty.

Mages are nothing like the filthy sleeper monkeys.

>>53791030
It's reflexively put up. Spend Mana and you're fine.

>>53790961
>So a bomb goes off? If you're at groud zero, then you can't activate.
>If you're far enough away that you hear the explosion before it hits you, you could activate Mage armour.

You get that light travels faster than sound, right? If you're facing the right way, then you should be able to get a reflexive action.

>Someone shoots you in the head from 2 blocks away? You're dead before you can activate.

The tried and true Kincaid method of wizard removal.

>>53790421
>>53790310
>No, they can reflexively return to their golden road, but dont auto return if somehow killed outside
Page 252 of Mage the Awakening 2nd edition:
>Rather than meditating into the Astral, archmasters meditate out of themselves; an archmage’s seemingly physical body is no more crucial to him than a mage’s dream form.

>>53791015
>Nope. it activates. It's supernaturally reflexive.

Really? Do you have a page cite or Word of Dave link?

>>53791066
It's literally in the book. It's reflexive to activate when spending a Mana point.

>>53791048

Found the Mystagouge. Lets give him a supernal swirlie.

>>53791053
>The tried and true Kincaid method of wizard removal.

Of course, Dresden was part of the plan and was effectively committing suicide.

It's not so easy with uncooperative mages and assailants who aren't half-demon super-soldiers.

>>53791053
If you can think faster than the difference between the speed of light and sound, given your distance, perhaps.

>>53791098
>It's literally in the book. It's reflexive to activate when spending a Mana point.

That doesn't mean it ignores the rules about being surprised.

>>53790981
Mages are human. Sleepers are not. They merely look human.

>>53791130
It doesn't matter. It reflexively defends if you want it to.

These are wizards we're talking about. Bullets aren't going to be as effective.

>>53791130
If you are surprised you cant take an action. Reflexive or not.

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What's stronger than Luna? Could an Archmage tackle those things too?

What about the God Machine?

>>53791140
>Mages are human. Sleepers are not. They merely look human.

Those Abyss- tainted baboons really are a pain in the ass.

I bet if we vivisected a few more, we could begin solve the problem.

>>53791267
Meh Angels have minds. Mages have Mind Arcanum. If the god machine has a Mind then its fucked.

Anything with a mind is fucked by a archmaster of mind. Probably by a master of mind to considering he can nearly always ignore withstand...

>>53791266
This is why Shielding is so perfect.

Surprise attacks just won't hamper Mages when its up.

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>Calling your game the official video game
This is going to suck, isn't it?

>>53791114
>Of course, Dresden was part of the plan and was effectively committing suicide.

Can you still be called co-operative when your part in the plan had been wiped from your mind and you had no way of knowing it was coming?

That situation plays out the same whether or not Dresden called Kincaid. You want a mage dead - high powered rifle from a long distance off, problem solved.

>>53791116
What IS the speed of thought anyway? And how much time do you need to qualify as a reflexive action? I know we're being pedantic here, but at what point does a mage stop being able to get a reflexive action? Could a Mage argue that being hit by a bullet would give him enough reflexive time to stop further damage after the initial impact?

We need two threads.

One for the magefags to sperg out in, and one for everybody else.

>>53791381
We need something new to talk about, OPP needs to release some books!

Then mages can shit all over them too.

Celerity can reflexively dodge bullets.

Pretty sure Mage Armor can intercept them as well

>>53791301
You can' affect Rank 6+ entities with your magic if you aren't an Archmage.

>>53791390
I'm actually dreading the release of Changeling 2.0

Just watch all the Acanthus asshats crawl out from their holes to shit it up.

>>53791392
Some do some dont. Some give you armor or downgrade damage.

>>53791378
>What IS the speed of thought anyway?
That's the problem with the storyteller system, and something to discuss on a case-by-case basis with the GM.
Ultimately, it should come down to "what's fun".

>>53791267
If the question is "Can an Archmage handle X?", the answer is always yes. They aren't infallible, and the other cosmic level powers have their own metaphorical nukes pointed at the mages, but yes, if an archmage wants something obliterated and damn the consequences, they have the power to do so.

>>53791425
System wise a reflexive action is just something you can do that doesnt use up your normal action. If you cant take a normal action then you cant take a reflexive action.

>>53791267
While stronger than Luna, the God-Machine might have actually been created by an Archmage in order to help it reaffirm itself as a rightful god.

It really makes you wonder just how much influence Archmages REALLY have over the World of Darkness.

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>>53790902

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>>53791411
We don't even need to wait.
The Komodo Exarch has already stated that Fate 3 can shit all over anything a Changeling can come up with.

>>53791435
The answer is yes there will be one that can but all cant. They need to be prepared and it be in their purview. You arnt going to get one mage with every arcana at transfiguration levels (though somebody will argue at that point you might aswell have)

>>53791411
It'll be beast level bad and beasts will also now have something to shit over, so they will come out of their holes and shit it up too

"Hey changeling, you suffered alot, allow me to show you real suffering that i get to eat too"

>>53791400
>You can' affect Rank 6+ entities with your magic if you aren't an Archmage.

Rank 6+ spirits are only immune to certain Spirit / Death / Mind spells.

>>53791482
Aye. Not trying say all archmages can pull off a given feat of magic, just that it falls within the umbra of things archmages are collectively capable of.

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>>53780674

>dildo thread on /k/

>two people post pictures of the same dildo

>'ey we should meet up'

>go to a public place

>bring your dildo

>dildo fight in an ice cream shop between two hammy gun nuts

>>53790748
>The Astral, Shadow, Underworld, and Hedge are all part of the Fallen World.

Thanks. Dave has already answered so many questions that the Mage FAQ should have been little more than a copy and paste exercise.

It's unfortunate that the FAQ and other promised material will likely never be released, and Signs of Sorcery probably will not be published until GenCon 2025.

>>53791390
OPP is kill.

>>53791559
Oh goddamnit

Not you again.

Cry me a river

>>53791425
Its a Wits + composure roll to see the attack coming and if you get 'defense' / can take reflexive actions like going prone or activating mage armor.

Could an Archmage kill the infinite amount of True Fae within Arcadia?

>>53791559
Dave one posted the FAQ>>53791604
was pretty much done 8 months ago. So yeh its never coming out.

>>53791604
One probably could yes.

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>>53791411
>I'm actually dreading the release of Changeling 2.0
>Just watch all the Acanthus asshats crawl out from their holes to shit it up.

Who needs to wait for the release of Changeling 2e?

>>53791604
>Could an Archmage kill the infinite amount of True Fae within Arcadia?
An RAW example of something you can do in the Supernal Realms:
>Destroy every member of a major supernatural template.

>>53791604
The True Fae are innocent at heart.

Why would you want to hurt them?
They don't know any better

>>53791456
Not even bait, just really dislike just about everything 2e.

>>53791625
>Dave one posted the FAQ was pretty much done 8 months ago. So yeh it's never coming out.

Was there any explanation why it wasn't released other than spite?

>>53791686
Even getting rid of that stupid Vulgar/Covert mechanic that meant a Mind Mage could do whatever he wanted with no consequence, while a Force or Matter Mage got to eat a Paradox every time they wanted to blow their nose?

>>53791707
Naughty misbehaved magefags keep greedily demanding gifts from Santa Dave

It's pretty simple

>>53791666
>The True Fae are innocent at heart.

Then when you kill them, they'll go to a better place.

>Let God sort them out

>>53791666

Fae wuz gud boyz dey dindu nuffin

>>53791726
>Naughty misbehaved magefags keep greedily demanding gifts from Santa Dave

Dave's the one who promised the FAQ (and antagonist and legacy material).

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>>53791604
>be fate 9 archmage
>go on epic trek
>acquire quintessence
>cast transfiguration
>permanently enchant self to rewrite narrative
>become the living incarnation of fanfiction
>walk into arcadia
>rewrite how the wyrd functions
>no more true fae

Done

>>53791707
This was 8 months or so ago so probably the delay is due to OPP being tards & Dave's problems he's had recently.

Was before his spite post about not wanting to release it because somebody asked where it was and a argument over paid/unpaid work happened.

>>53791763
>Fae wuz gud boyz dey dindu nuffin

There really is nothing worse than Ghetto Gentry.

Once they move in, the property values on your sanctum nosefive.

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Updated to 1.14, now with Lords of the Inanimate.

A stupendously cute Legacy about caring for your items until they generate Spirits (or just using Magic/Attainments), and then being the best of friends with them.

Of course, other people might not think it's so cute when you mow them down with your friendly Awakened SMG.

In terms of the new Attainments, I added creating willing Fetishes, contractually binding Spirits into Golems, and understanding more about your gun, so you shoot better.

Any other requests?

>>53791806
>OPP being tards

I don't know who's worse, RichT or SwedeDracula.

Why antagonize the Gentry when you can just create your own 'better' Arcadia using Fate 9 like previously mentioned?

Actually, would the Pax even care about the Gentry? They do nothing but play in their little sandboxes at the edge of reality.

>>53791896
They're intimitely tied to a major section of the Supernatural population.
Such that without them, another source of Fate-related magic is either gone, or at least substantially decreased.
That could quite possibly have relatively major flow-on effects for the rest of the world.

Sure they might ruin souls such that there can be less Awakenings, but that's not enough cause for Archmages to attempt to cure vampirism or the lineage of father wolf.
And many people with with the Gentry willingly.
Making it their own fault, from a distanced, Archmaster-type position.

>>53791947
>And many people with with the Gentry willingly.

?

>>53791837
Martin has done nothing wrong. Everything they're doing will be awesome.

>>53791896
True Fae tea time is a favored pastime of archmagi

Do the Gentry ever try to kidnap mages or other major supernaturals, or only regular humans?

>>53791962
The Gentry, the True Fae, frequently convince people to come into Arcadia with them.
Either through wagers, or contests of strength or wits.
Others are just sold to them by privateers.

So yeah, some people just don't leave well enough alone, and think they can win a bag of gold from a strange, enchanting women with shining eyes and a smile you can get lost in that might be slightly too sharp.
It's even more enticing when she says if you lose you've just got to come home with her.

>>53791981
Only regular humans.

That being said, I imagine an Acanthus (be it mage or archmage) would/could understand a True Fae well enough to actually befriend them.

>>53791981
Only regular humans. I think its stated explicitly somewhere in the Changeling source-book

>>53791964
>Simplified LARP-y sheet/mechanic changes and gay feeding mechanics as well as gutting the political play
Disagree strongly, hes done plenty wrong.

>>53791981
Gentry can't get dick from a Mage's soul, however there was something mentioned in one of the 1e Changeling books about how they turnd some Mages into nasty monsters.

And Imperial Mysteries mentioned the "old gods of the thistle" who sometimes kidnapped Mages to drink power from their souls.

Up to the GM how he interprets that, though.

>>53792037
Old Gods of the Thistle are no longer the same as the Gentry

>>53792017
>could understand a True Fae well enough to actually befriend them.

True Fae don't do "friendships." They are fundamentally unable to feel affection for anyone else, and if they seem like they do, its all an act.

>>53791896
Large scale cosmic fuckery can lead to bad shit. Nobody wants to be that guy that feeds all of Arcadia to the Abyss, or alters how Fate works, or any other number of bad things that can happen if you delete a fifth of the universe.

>>53792048
Yeah. I get that.
However there's no reason that you can't also say that the Gentry can't do something similar.

They are supposed to be essentially Rank 6-7 Gods within their home realm.

>>53792050
Wrong. The True Fae aren't malevolent in the traditional sense. Their mindsets are skewered. Love and hate is the same to them. Likewise for friends and enemies.

If you can wrap your head around that and use it to your advantage, then a bastardized form of friendship can be formed.

>>53792082
I liked how it was described in 1e.
Their Virtue and Vice are essentially swapped.
They get only transitory fulfilment from fulfilling their "better" side, but extreme satisfaction from being a total cuntbag.

>>53792117
I thought that was geists?

>>53792379
Can't it be both?
It's a good way to represent individuals with a human-like, but antithetical morality.

>>53791833

Tamers of Wind for best waifu character

or

Fallen Pillar for GG Allin-esque antics

>>53792030
>>53792030
Dude, you've never played a LARP. None of the mechanical changes would be easy to do in LARP, specifically the Hunger mechanics.

>>53792441
>Simplifying traits down to single stats per category
Is exactly how MET rules for OWoD were you dumb fuck. Clearly you've never played in a LARP.

>>53792462
True, that IS like the MET version. It's also the single 'LARP alike' thing. Stop being such a fucking drama queen.

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What's the Geist metaplot? Like what do sin-eaters even do? Vampires have survival and politics, werewolves have spirits, mages have ascension. What propels a Sin Eater plot?

>>53792527
The feeding mechanic is awful in its own right, it turns the most boring part of the game (feeding) into the core mechanic and all the elder's leaving turns the most interesting part of the game (politics) into fucking nothing.

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>>53790526
>prepared archmages can do virtually anything
That moment when you realized that archmages are just infinite prep time Batman

>>53792600
You can have politics without elders. That just requires structure.

>>53792661
If I didn't want Elders controlling the Jyhad I'd play fucking NWoD.

>>53792719
My biggest problem so far is that VV is looking like diet CoD. I already have Chronicles if I want to play that, I don't need another version with even simpler rules.

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>>53792618
>That moment when you realized that archmages are just infinite prep time Batman

>Kill The Batman

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Could I use Life•••• to turn myself into a space marine minus the armor/weapons?

>>53793358
If you knew what you wanted, yes.

>>53792582
Enjoying your second chance at life. Also, whatever your Geist wants to do.

>>53793422

>Using knowledge instead of imagination

NEEEEEERRRRDDD

>>53781687
That's the kind of thing that is the meat and gravy of what Mage players want. It's all about the power fantasy, and the gameplay is about dressing it up and letting each player stroke their imaginary dick to climax while preventing any one player from feeling too threatened by any other, as all of the handjobs are dealt out.

>>53793986
>Vampfag who has never played Mage

>>53788666
I am too. Explain this one, because it seems like it's actually stretching the rules beyond recognizability, in the blanket statement form we see it being stated as here.

>>53795239
Fine.

"Protection
Most commonly with the Practice of Shielding (••), a spell may grant protection from forces under the Arcanum’s purview. These spells usually provide blanket immunity to natural or mundane phenomena, while protecting against a number of supernatural attacks equal to the spell’s Potency. Such attacks must win a Clash of Wills to affect the target."
Creative Thaumaturgy rules on page 126

So ultimately, the spell should even completely protect against non-Supernatural Agg harm of the specified kind.

However instead I reflavored the Matter Alchemist's touch into applying to a specific kind of energy instead.

>>53795239
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Forces_(MTAw) It's pretty simple, you look at what you can do with the dots you have, and make an Effect based on those guidelines.

>>53795239
>>53795336
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Ars_Mysteriorum There's the other half of it.

So been reading left-hand legacies yesterday. Anyone did their own Tremere houses? Or even played Tremere game?

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>>53791359
I hope not, but probably.

>>53793986
Pretty much yeah
t. Mage player and compulsive masturbator

>>53791359

Hang on, has there been some gameplay footage shown at E3?

>>53792423
Added Tamers of Winds.
Not my favorite Legacy really.
Their entire purpose seems a bit pointless given the enhanced capacity of Prime in 2e.

*edit*
How fucking hard is it to upload a goddamn pdf?

>>53798388
Right, this shit just ain't uploading.
I'll try again tomorrow morning.

>>53795239
>Explain this one, because it seems like it's actually stretching the rules beyond recognizability, in the blanket statement form we see it being stated as here.

Note also that in 2e, an intentional decision was made to remove artificial speed bumps and limiters to the Arcana and Practices. No longer would any form of "game balance" restrict what an Arcana should be able to do at a given Practice because it might be too powerful.

The Forces 2 defense against kinetic damage is modeled exactly on the Matter 2 Shielding spell "Alchemists Touch." Not only are the rules not being stretched, they're being applied in an entirely consistent and intended manner.

You appear to believe that the rules are not being followed simply because the Forces 2 effect is so powerful. Such considerations are no longer applicable in 2e. If the kinetic defense bothers you, you might have missed how, unlike 1e, Forces mages can now also do things like control gravity and radiation at the any dot level so long as the effect is available with the appropriate Practice. Other Arcana are no different, particularly revised Matter and Life.

Lower level mages have definitely received a power increase over 1e, and more experienced mages are terrifying.

What spells and attainments available to a mage could allow them to perform autofellatio ? Bonus points if they can do it 24/7
It seems like this truly is the final frontier for them, now ?

What Professional Training Asset Skills would a private eye have?

>>53799291
er:
investigation & either intimidation, socialize, streetwise or persuasion?

What is limit on Platonic Form? Can you create platonic nukes with 2Reach option? Are there even stats for them?

>>53799940
Your not "making" nukes without the "making" practice mate and even then radiation n shit is forces in 1e so probably the same in 2e. Hell its probably Forces + Matter. Good try though

>>53799940
Nuclear explosions are an Archmaster thing, so no.

>>53798915
Life or Space.

>>53783572
nimbus don't have to be visual, in can be an electrical sensation in the skin, the smell of ozone or blood, the feeling that you are about the make a great discovery, the sound of a song which title you can't remember.

>>53800040
Well, kinetic energy is also Forces, but you definitely can beat someone with PF-hammer.

>>53800131
Direct creation of nuclear explosion with magic - yes. But MtAw isn't MtAs, bombs aren't magical things here.

It sounds like m20 book of secrets just went out to backers. Does it save the line? (probably not) Any other opinions?

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>>53780674
Help, I want to play nWoD 1.0 but all my pals are oWoD-fags and Roll20 does not provide.
Got introduced to WoD by it but never got to play it much.

Anybody knows some sites to pick up games?

>>53799940
>>53800459
Did you read what Platonic Form says in the description?
>The object created must be a simple object or tool no greater than Size 5 (swords and gemstones are allowable, guns and cars are not)
And the +2 Reach effect:
>The effect is Lasting (though the tass still crumbles if all its Mana is expended or absorbed).
What part of that made you think you can get a nuke?

>>53801039
Probably you read outdated version.

>+2 Reach: The Mana construct can be a complex device.

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>>53800665

Could anybody share M20 Book of Secrets?

>>53801101
more magical special children. I thought we had left that behind us with C20

>>53800149
Would Time allow you to blow yourself from the past/future as well ?

>>53801101

This has been a thing for a while in mage.

Are DtD demons unaffected by thirst, hunger, fatigue, poison, disease, suffocation when in demonic form? I know that injury and the like follow them when in Cover, so a demon poisoned in Cover A and switches to Cover B is still poisoned. But if said demon does a full transformation, are they affected by poison, thirst, etc. and can they become affected?

What complicates this is that Flowers of Hell says that "hunger, thirst, fatigue, and so on" fall away in demonic form. But other books have a disease that seems to affect demons in either form and new Modifications that make a demon immune to poison, hunger, fatigue, etc.

Question - If a mage uses Correspondance 1 to detect exactly where a vampire's heart is, how much easier should that make it to stake his ass?

>>53803143
Reduce difficulty by successes on the spell casting probably.

>>53780674
>How did Atlantis work in your games?

Its considered for nutjobs on the orders to go on about Atlantis. You get the same weird looks as if you were wearing a tinfoil hat and talk about the lizards who are behind the government.

>>53780674

The Diamond of Atlantis is or was a group who claimed that they practiced "Pre-Human Magicke" and served a role similar to what Threat Null serves, except for the Traditions.

They engaged in acts of magick meant to forcibly awaken people and sabotage modern infrastructure. Somehow, the Technocracy and it's operatives seemed unable to acknowledge their existence.

Rumors of their connection to the Rogue Council have been denied by the Sphinx on several occasions, at least until the Sphinx went silent.

The Diamond remains a subject discussed by the Reformed Council of Nine, although they haven't been seen since 2015.

>>53803684
Why would they think it's weird?

>>53794258
I've been playing Mage since 1E, with shifts to dark ages, sorcerer's crusade and back and forth, and Awakening (first edition, haven't run a 2e campaign yet). I know what players want, and how to manage them. It's masturbation/power fantasy. Get over yourself and learn to laugh at it, and enjoy it for it all the more.

Is the All-In merit for the Atariya actually any useful?
I'm struggling to find a situation where it could be super handy. I know the point of it is a huge risk, but spending three merit points AND a willpower for a big chance to fail just doesn't seem worth it.

How sad is that goat boy brucatto was able to shit a FAQ for m20 before the komodo dragon?

>>53804895
What?

>>53804895
Goat fucker had other people put on the book because he couldn't do it on his own.

>>53805013
Is it any more playable now?

>>53805045
What parts of M20 were unplayable?

>>53805045
Is over 1100 pages of books spread across 3 titles with no one book having all the rules for any part of the game playable? With more parts still not available, we technically haven't even had the complete core book delivered for M20.

>>53803976
>Why would they think it's weird?

"Listen, you see all magic practices are wrong. Magic came from an island, called atlantis, in which people gained magic from the bones of dragons. They got a super advance society of mages and it all fell down because babel storyline".

"Atlantis?....like aquaman, namor or the disney movie?"

"NO! ITS NOTHING LIKE THAT, this is superserious. They had this advance society that organize themselves per the parts of a dragon. The voice, the claws, the wing .....and"

"the dick? Did they had a dragon dick order?"

"STOP IT, WHY WONT YOU TAKE ME SERIOUSLY!?"

"Because what you are saying is boring bland and smell of poorly writing new agey wank material."

>>53804903
>What?

The new M20 Book, book of secrets has a FAQ section talking about some design choices and rules interaction. Something that Dave Brookshaw the developer of mage awakening said he would be doing but hasn't because a mixture of personal issues, the FAQ that OPP doesn't pay him for that and made him work a on a shitty new game about playing a Cheiron project reject.

>>53805245
Atlantis is for Mage the Awakening, not Mage the Ascension.

>>53805245
>Because what you are saying is boring bland and smell of poorly writing new agey wank material
Just like Mage in general.

>>53805064
>What parts of M20 were unplayable?

What parts of M20 is playable is a better question.

>>53805312

Yup, i am talking about Mage awakening. That how i handle it. Nobody believes in atlantis except nutjobs because is a fucking stupid setting element.

>>53805345
Ok, that is a fair way to handle it.

>>53805345
So you don't like it yourself, therefore everyone in your game has to feel the same way?

>>53805316
Is the vampfat mad he got turned into a lawnchair?

>>53805409
Yes, because he is a storyteller, and he ultimately gets to decide which parts of the cosmology are true. Also, in 2e, they got rid of most of the "Atlantis" silliness.

>>53805416
Fuck you nigga, I play Werewolf.

>>53801101
Could you use these and to play a magical girl game in Mage?

Just got back from joining a new game where the Ventrue presence monkey has presence'd/blood-bonded everyone and their dog (or, in this case, werewolf alphas).

When I got back, I checked the book and messaged the ST to say presence only works when you're actually in their presence (presumably in a scene with them). Any other way around it, or I'm I stuck trying to avoid him like the plague for a year?

>>53805416
You don't need to be a vampfag to simply find Mage a terrible pretentious bore. It's like the worst of Masquerade on a loop.

>>53805409
>So you don't like it yourself, therefore everyone in your game has to feel the same way?

actually by the 3rd group of PCs on different games whose characters all agree that it was a stupid theory and nobody in their right mind would buy it. I just went with it.

>>53805466

Guide to the traditions suggests a catholic school magical girl character called "Georgina Knight"

>>53805324
With How Do You Do That, I don't have really ran into any issues. I'm curious about, say, the top 3 things?

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What were my Omens and Noumenon?

>>53805638
>With How Do You Do That, I don't have really ran into any issues. I'm curious about, say, the top 3 things?

Many issues the most glaring to me personally is that the book keeps failing to be consistent on how to do magic.

For example say i got a Psychic mage, so my focus or instrument is my mind. So if i wanted to use pyrokinesis all i would need is Forces. With my mind/concentration acting as the instrument.

Yet here comes brucatton with his shitty How do you do that? and says "no pyrokinesis needs mind because i dont understand my rules".

Driving/chasing is a mess of rules and broken beyond belief.

>>53805737
And if your powers come from spirits, the effects might need Spirit tacked on.

This is a part of the system where your focus dictates what you need to do magick. A pyrokinetic mage uses their mind to control flames, whereas a hermetic might have to go through the ordeal of drawing sigils (hard when you can't draw) or chanting the true name of fire (hard when you can't speak). Your approach to magick combined with the situation and conditions you are in is at the heart of the game.

Mage isn't balanced on numeric values, I don't know why people think that's even supposed to be a thing. Forces and Prime do way more damage than Life in a combat situation, but it's easier to kill a person with Life by giving them brain cancer.

The game is about what you believe in and the consequences of that power, not equal opportunity wizard simulator.

>>53789426
... yes but not without significant consequence and potentially not before getting fucked up themselves

>>53805885

Not it isnt. Your paradigm dictates what you need (in actions or objects) to accomplish something but it doesn't dictate what spheres you need. Sphere are mostly, even by admition on the goat boys FAQ, is the OOC system for players and DMs to filter all the effects.

Normally to do X effect you needs the same amount of spheres no matter the paradigm. Paradigm might dictate what takes more or less time or if it need an action to be perform before hands but doesn't mean you need more sphere.

What paradigm can dictates sometimes is achieve a similar effect X by different more slow means. For example: You dont have forces to fireball a building but as a shaman you can make a fire spirit start a fire. It will take time and convincing.

But same shaman could just fart a fireball if he had forces 3, while IC believing he is channeling the spirits or some shit.

And the main problem is that its makes the game kinda unplayable because parts of M20 agree with my view and other agree with yours.

>>53805885
>Forces and Prime do way more damage than Life in a combat situation

No they dont. Thats another issue.

Throwing a fireball, the most classic effect is a shitshow.

You first have to pass a Attribute + skill roll to see if it hits. With successes beyond 1 doing nothing.

Then you roll arete. Which mostly is gonna be 3 for a starting mage. And each success deals 1 soakable damage. So in best case scenario you can deal by spending 1 WP and getting all successes 4 damage.

And even then the opponent can soak.

In Mage antagonists are either people to have cool wizard battles with or deadly puzzles to solve. If you actually ran the other Mage villians like they were Mage players the game would become incredibly unfun.

>>53806269
You do know you can accumulate successes over multiple turns?

>>53806441
>You do know you can accumulate successes over multiple turns?

Hows that relevant in combat? The shitty rules on M20 doesnt allow for one to go all "FIREBALL MOTHERFUCKER" in 1 turn and kill someone and then eating all the paradox that comes with it on a somewhat lucky roll.

>>53805638
>With How Do You Do That, I don't have really ran into any issues. I'm curious about, say, the top 3 things?

M20 decided that you need Prime to conjure elements with is punitive to player and adds nothing to the game more than another XP.

>>53806511
It's an easy thing to blow up a person in a single turn as a mage.

Assuming you're not a noobie, of course. Low tier mages are weak. Higher tier mages are strong.

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Version with Tamers of Winds

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>>53806511
>>53806269
That's not how the math works.

You don't need to roll to hit when shooting lightning or fire at someone, and every success on your Arete roll deals 2 dice of aggravated damage, plus 1 for using forces. RAW this costs one Quintessance to do [a rule I personally wave].

So if I roll my 3d10 Arete, DC 6 for a Forces 3 blast of lightning at someone, and I get 2 successes, I then roll 5d10 Aggravated Damage. Most things that aren't a Prime Mage or a person with Fortitude aren't going to be able to do jack shit about that.

Add in Quintessance to lower the DC and WP to add on a success to the Arete [adding 2 more dice to damage] and its easy to nuke someone to hell.

And as far as foci goes the only thing you need is to say the fucking magic words [if Hermetic] pull out your Obliteratorinator [if Etherite], or just call it down from Heaven like Elijah [if Chorister]

>>53806556
>M20 decided that you need Prime to conjure elements with is punitive to player and adds nothing to the game more than another XP.

Brucatto is a world class douche, but in Ascension, you always needed Prime to conjure anything from nothing or an appropriate pattern sphere to transform one pattern to another. This is certainly not something novel or new to M20.

In fact, the framework of conjunctive sphere use for nearly everything was considered so annoying that it was rejected entirely in Awakening.

>>53806511
This shows a hilarious lack of experience with the system.

Four successes is eight levels of damage. Not dice, levels. And using Forces adds one extra level of damage.

Let's say we're going "all out", taking two turns and use a Prime 2 Forces 3 effect to hurl a fireball.

Since we're doing everything we can to nail the fucker, we burn 3 quintessence for -3 difficulty on a vulgar with witnesses roll, putting us at diff 5 for the Arete roll, for an average of 0.5 successes per die.

We're at Arete 3, so that's 1.5 succs per roll on average. We're going to spend a willpower on both rolls, putting us at 5 successes average.
We're going to declare that we're aiming for 5 successes. That's 10 levels of aggravated damage, +1 level from Forces.

A Garou in Crinos with 7 Stamina (4 base, +3 crinos) soaks 4.2 levels of that on average (diff 6). That is not enough to save him from getting one-shot by the fireball.

>>53806606
>It's an easy thing to blow up a person in a single turn as a mage.
>Assuming you're not a noobie, of course. Low tier mages are weak. Higher tier mages are strong.

You need arete 4, all successes and 1 wp and a very unlucky soak roll to be able to.

>>53807037
Three successes on a Forces effect is seven health levels of damage, enough to kill anyone who can't soak lethal/aggravated.

>>53807037
It's really not that hard. Perhaps you should read the above examples.

You can also cheese things by using Wonders and hung/held effects.

>>53806788
>You don't need to roll to hit when shooting lightning or fire at someone, and every success on your Arete roll deals 2 dice of aggravated damage, plus 1 for using forces. RAW this costs one Quintessance to do [a rule I personally wave].

Do you have a refference for that? Because i kind find it. What i do find it on pg 535 under "magickal attack roll"

"In certain circumstances, though, you need to hit a target who doesn’t want to be hit. Perhaps you’re firing an energy gun, swinging an enchanted sword, or flinging the archetypal fireball at your intended target of misfortune. In such situations, you also need to roll an attack to hit that person. The Effect might succeed, but its impact may go elsewhere."

Is there something like a guide anywhere about how police detectives do their work? I'm making that kind of character but I don't really know anything about police work.

>>53807178

13th precinct is a NWoD book about police work. If you want rules for it you got the investigation rules in Chrod.

>>53806788
You don't roll damage dice for Effects, unless that's something else M20 fucked up. You roll Arete and each success = 2 of the thing you're trying to get.

>>53807482