/srg/ - Shadowrun General

Suggestion:

When shooting a burst, divide the dice pool by the amount of rounds you want to hit. Eg., when making a simple burst, divide the whole pool by three. Each round would be judged separately, and would deal full damage upon hitting.

That would be the perfect way to make burst firing both realistic and useful. Thoughts?

>>53678663
Sounds good, I hate how people just spray and pray all the time and just one bullet always hits by chance and all the rest just disappear without doing anything. Maybe add some sort of suppression effect on top of that to make 10rd burst something to actually consider?

>>53678663
>realistic
who the fuck cares about realistic? If you want realistic fights use "Ops and Tactics". Realistic =/= Good

>useful
in what way? If a character is good enough to considerably kill with normal bursts then changing to your method won't improve it. And if not then it makes no difference either
Also you increase the amount of rolls significantly, making the game slower. Fights are already a slog, no need to make it even slower

>>53678745
>who the fuck cares about realistic? If you want realistic fights use "Ops and Tactics". Realistic =/= Good

I do. Just because you want to run your pink mohawk campaign doesn't mean that everyone else enjoys that. I'll take a look at that book though, maybe it's something I'll enjoy.

>Also you increase the amount of rolls significantly, making the game slower. Fights are already a slog, no need to make it even slower

You would do much more damage to a single mook, dispatching them in a single round. It would increase lethality by a lot, making firefights shorter.

>>53678584
I'm not sure how much Shadowrun cyber can advance without straying into Eclipse Phase territory. Shadowrun already has conciousness transference, human-like drones, AI's, etc. I suppose easier full-cyber conversion would be nice.

The next great leap is probably bioware computers, based on research from technomancer dissection. Will we see bioware smartlinks in 6th edition?

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>>53678808
>I require Realism™ in my game about cyborg Trolls and Elf wizards stealing from dragons.

Is 7+1d6 enough initiative for a combat specialist in 5e? I noticed there weren't initiative passes to worry about.

>>53678849
Yes. Shadowrun is a great setting because it blends realism with fantasy elements. No reason to throw realism out of the window just because there's magic in it.

>>53678981
Absolutely not. You get one 'turn' a round per ten initiative points. As a regular runner, you therefore want at least 11 guaranteed points of initiative (two turns), and as a combat runner you probably want more like 21 (three turns).

>>53678988
>Yes. Shadowrun is a great setting because it blends realism with fantasy elements. No reason to throw realism out of the window just because there's magic in it.

this

>>53678808
>You would do much more damage to a single mook, dispatching them in a single round.
Chummer, currently Sammies already do this
And no, your method would actually deal less damage
Average Sammy: 12 dice, lets say here 15 dice
Average enemy: Dodge of REA+INT, so usually 7-9 dice, okay armor means 12 dice

Normal:
Sammy makes a burst, firing 3 rounds, the enemy gets a -2 bonus on dodging
so it's 15 dice vs. 5-7 dice meaning on average 3 net hits for the sammy
enemy then rolls 12 dice, average 4 meaning he takes (damage + net hits) -4, so usually Damage-1. With a damage of 11P they would already be dead, with a damage of 9 they'll be close to dead. This assumes that they have no AP or special ammunition, which can lower the needed damage

Your version:
Sammy makes a burst, firing 3 rounds
he then rolls three tests at 5 dice each, averaging at 2 hits if he's lucky
enemy rolls 9 dice, averaging 3 hits, each time
so on average none of the bullets hit
If they hit they get most likely 1 net hit
enemy then rolls 12 dice averaging 4 hits
so the bullet (if one hits) does on average Damage-3. You'd need 13P to kill them, if you hit at all

And this is just small bursts. If you go to 5 bullets you only get 3 dice, unlikely to hit anything not stationary

>>53678988
>Shadowrun is a great setting because it blends realism with fantasy elements.
>Shadowrun
>realism
What stuff are you smoking?

>>53679079
Noted, Thankfully i asked. Improved Reflexes 3 good enough? Is there other stuff?

>>53678981
Is that a joke?
Re-read the rules about initiative. You get one 'initiative pass' for every 10 that you roll when determining initiative in combat. 7+1d6 will only get you two passes 50% of the time. You will go last and only go once. In otherwords, you suck at combat.

>>53679135
Noted, 10+4d6 now with optional adrenaline boost x5 sound better?

>>53679108
There's Adept, Mage, Cyber, and Bioware options to improve initiative. Most doesn't stack with each other.

Improved Refkexes 3 is a solid option that should do well even in high karma campaigns. Onless you visit places with a high bakground count, then it turns off. So maybe have some combat drugs as a backup.

>>53679098
Oh, and just as an addendum
This is the reason Dual wielding is disliked by most players
not because it's (un-)realistic
not because it's a bad concept (it isn't)
or because it might not fit into the lore (it would)

but because you split the dice pool, meaning that unless you are a hyperspecialized adept build with like 30 dice in that weapon you ain't gonna hit SHIT

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>>53678584
be careful when your significant other has been celebrating their new augments and is feeling frisky, as they are probably not aware how fragile you are compared to them now.

>>53678988
I must have missed the realism somewhere between the Native Americans successfully taking over half the North American continent instead of being nuked and bioweaponed, and magic bug ghosts possessing people.

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How large of a firearm can I dual wield? Machine Pistols? SMGs? Sufficiently Modified Assault Rifles?

5e, I can't seem to find any information on it.

>>53679307
depends on your size
IIRC there is a penalty of -2 if you wield a two handed weapon with one hand if you are not a troll
but the bigger problem with this is >>53679207

How do I determine the success of actions that aren't opposed and/or don't have any mention of threshold in the description?
Just use the success table?

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>>53679307

>>53679098
Two hits with decent AP would translate to way more damage than a single hit with more net hits. You'd just have to be extremely good to hit with multiple shots, which is the exact point.

>>53679408
if no enemy dice pool is given or no threshold set then you need just one hit to succeed. More hits make the result better

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>>53679220
>not getting at least the basic Bone Lacing so you can keep up
Alternatively, follow user manual and unplug the extensions before regular "maintenance".

>>53679247
>I must have missed the realism somewhere between the Native Americans successfully taking over half the North American continent
They used a magical nuke, didn't they?

>instead of being nuked and bioweaponed
I thought nuclear weapons had some trouble going off in the Shadowrun universe. Bioweapons are indiscriminatory, and using them in close proximity to your own population centres is an extremely bad idea.

>and magic bug ghosts possessing people.
That's fairly standard.

>>53679307
I don't think there's an official rule, because who needs to know about combat mechanics when you can spend time making rules about seven different types of swimming. Fucking cgl.

>>53679442
you'd need to be autistically good to hit with more than one shot
remember, if you want to fire 5 bullets against an enemy with 9 dodge, then on average not a single one will hit. With three bullets they will hit just barely.
even using AP weapons won't do shit if you can't actually hit them
and you need on average -3 AP to cancel one of their hits

>>53679485
>Bioweapons are indiscriminatory

In 2012 they were. Today with CRISPR it's easy to imagine smart bioweapons 20 years in the future, that can propagate as a harmless flu, and activate a targeted lethal mode if the target has the select DNA.

SR probably has a corp doing the same thing with magic.

>>53679307
From 4e, SMGs and smaller can be one-handed, but ask your GM just in case.

Like the other chummer said It'd be a -2 penalty for each weapon you'd be firing with one hand, unless you're a Troll.

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>>53679561
>that can propagate as a harmless flu, and activate a targeted lethal mode if the target has the select DNA.
FOXDIE?

>>53679632
Or Manticore.

>>53678663
No. There's a reason attacking the same target multiple times in the same IP is disallowed. It's significantly imbalanced.

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>>53679307
Not sure how I feel about that edit.

How do I know I'm prepared enough to start GMing my first session?

>>53680066
Fear and anxiety have been replaced with terror and mania.

>>53679965
I don't feel like it is. You can already attack different targets multiple times, disallowing the same against a single target is simply retarded.

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>>53678584
Check out the rings this company makes/sells and does custom.

https://www.proclamationjewelry.com/

They look pretty shadowrun to me.

pic unrelated

>>53680523
Her face reminds me of Anzujaamu.

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>>53680523
>Check out the rings this company makes/sells and does custom.
>https://www.proclamationjewelry.com/
>They look pretty shadowrun to me.

A real life Ares Macrotechnology ring

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>>53679220
>be dwarf lesbian
>meet girl online
>avatar is elf qt
>arrange to meet irl at soyburger restaurant
>get to the meet point
>elf waifu is twelve foot chromed troll
>pic related by next morning

Not complaining, it was just a surprise to hear someone sit down then look up and see bewbs the size of my torso

>>53679593
what dog breeds are these?

>>53680969
top seems to be a Shiba Inu
bottom seems to be either a fat or deformed Shiba Inu

>>53679467
>unplug the extensions

what does this mean?

>>53679467
very regular

>wonder at how people get 40+ soak dice
>realize you somehow have 43 out of nowhere
woah
So this is the power of cyberlimb trolls

Can someone give me that spiel about why people get augged in shadowrun? Its like 'Just a little bit faster' and stuff, I swear i've seen it more than once so I assume its in a book somewhere

>>53681441
Check out Run Faster p.56-7, might be what you're looking for.

>>53680556
You think she looks like a plastic cockroach?

>>53681441
Hypercompetitiveness is a bitch.

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>>53681505
Mean.

>>53681311
Cyberlimbs and armor tanking is one of the most fun builds in the game. Get in the middle of things and then tell your teammates to chuck grenades at you. Take no damage.

>>53680403
Taking opponents out instantly because you can shoot them multiple times in the same IP is not balanced. Which are you, an idiot, or arguing in bad faith so you can game the system?

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>>53678584

Do your characters have any tattoos or markings they regret?

>>53681818
Its pretty easy to get them removed, But neither of them have any. One is too uptight and the other is too busy seeking thrills.

Why does the description for 2e elves make them seem like sexual predators?

>>53680523
oh my god they have an atlas shrugged ring. If I ever become a corrupt corporate executive, I need to wear that.

What is more useful for a TM, WIL or LOG? I'm trying to decide which to max at start. LOG seems good for most matrix tests, but WIL seems useful for resisting damage from using my complex forms.

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>>53678584

What are good throwaway guns and burial guns in shadowrun?


throwaway gun- a reliable cheap and effective gun that you can dump after using so that its hard to trace it back to you, Or you have it to toss to your chummer who's gun jammed or died, or to arm someone who needs to be armed right now.

burial gun- cheap reliable gun that you can stash behind drywall, bury in a yard or on the side of the highway or in a park in a place where you can dig it up because shit has hit the fan and you are leaving or on your way to lay low and were cut off from your weapons. if you forget where it is or someone finds it and takes it's not the end of the world because it's not some rare or highly expensive gun.


pic shows some potential IRL burial and throwaway pistol and carbine.


for SR4 I've been looking at the following (mostly based on availability and price) and would like your input

Gun Name (book pagenumber)

pistols
Colt America L36 (SR4 317)
Cavalier Deputy (Arsenal 23)

Tazer
Yamaha Pulsar (SR4 317)

shotguns
Remington Roomsweeper (SR4 318)
Remington 990 (SR4 321)

SMG
Sandler TMP (Arsenal 25)
AK-97 Carbine (SR4 318)
HK MP-5 TX (SR4 318)

assault rifle
AK-97 (SR4 321)

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does anybody know books that have simple cheap one tube, break action, grenade launcher?
>>53681979
>atlas shrugged ring

no he's still holding the earth up in that one.

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why do some people pronounce the word yes as "yee"
or
"yizz"
or
"h-yizz"
?

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Post matrix avatars
Did your runner make it themselves or pay a professional?

>>53683258
Not sure one exists. The only grenade launchers I've found in 5e are in the core rulebook, and there's only two of them, and both aren't one-shotters. The Ares Antioch-2 fires in SS but still packs a mag of 8. Guess companies don't want disposable tubes that scumbag can pick up later and convert into mortars like what happened in Vietnam with throwaway LAW rocket launchers.

>>53683387
Lingo.

>>53683438
>>53683258
Talk to your GM, You aughta be able to get an antique or something if you just ask.

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>>53678584
I know what mask is being worn on the next bank job chummer.

>>53683258

I wouldn't be surprise if those are something BUILT and sold on the black market for cheap.

>>53681025
>either a fat or deformed Shiba Inu
It ate a bee

So creating a shaman, would it be possible to avoid getting combat spells and rely on stuff like euphoria/opium den, and trid phantasm ?

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>>53684185
Utility is often more effective than combat.

>>53684185
The combat spell that most people consider necessary is a direct damage spell like Stunbolt, because its one of the options to deal with fuckhigh soak pools. Most other combat spells are generally worse than guns, grenades, etc (they definitely have their uses though, don't sperg out on me Mages).

Using combat "trick" spells are a lot like combat decking. With preparation and/or creativity it can be effective, but its often worse than just shooting a fucker outright. Part of it is that its up to the GM to create combat encounters where creativity is rewarded rather than a numbers slugfest. As a current Shadowrun GM I'm guilty of this.

Regardless of their combat potential, utility spells like Trid Phantasm are incredibly useful, often more than combat spells.

>>53682888
Depends. If stealth keys off log, then log. Otherwise wis. You can boost hacking with sprite aids but defense pools are all you and you essentially can be killed from a call center in India finding your icon one day.

>>53683951
how can you tell that's a shiba into and how can you tell it ate a bee?

>>53685372
Because it's an ancient picture on the internet captioned with "lol my Shiba Inu ate a bee"

>>53680595
As He died to make men holy,
let us die to make men free

>>53686069
thanks.

>>53684185
At chargen it's best to take 0-1 combat spells and taking utility spells for he rest, you'll get more mileage.

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>>53683421
>Post matrix avatars

>>53683438
what about the older editions?

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>>53680644

That's adorable.
More stories of this couple please.
we need more anecdotes and stories of shadowrunner relationships.

>>53681970
because it was a magical time
with sexual predator herbivore elves, litter birthing carnivore orks and dwarves that knew every other dwarf
and of course the fact that a meta could be allergic to their own ware

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>>53686677
One of my contacts is a drone mechanic with an unhealthy obsession with anime and anthroforms. All her drones somehow manage to look miserable.

No, capcha, I'm not a robot. Thankfully.

>>53687819
Interesting.

>All her drones somehow manage to look miserable.

please explain what you mean, because I don't understand. Does she build or modify them to hunch or have face plates that depict being miserable?

>>53687819
Who's that dapper motherfucker in the alleyway?
What the fuck is that cat doing?
What's up with that chick's back and crack situation?

What's going on?

>>53688246
Her butler.

He wants to play and his mouse-bot has wound down.

She was bending over her robot, which strains your back, and she's sitting further than upright to relieve the tension.

I hope that helps.

>>53688246
her butler
playing/trying to get the chick to play
high butt crack and flexible back?

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>>53688257
>>53688265
>her butler

Wait, mechanics have butlers? Or is she just a based rich girl who gets her hands dirty?

>tfw captcha tells you what to have for dinner

>>53688317
>Wait, mechanics have butlers?
if they can afford them, why not?

>>53688073
Rules state that every drone with a pilot rating 4-6 slowly gains it's own personality. She so abused her anthroform drones that they became depressed, hunchbacked and gloomy.

Of course she never noticed this, even when her AI-infected toaster tried to organise a miniature revolution against her deviant rule.

However damned good mechanic. Terrifies my E-ghost character though.

>>53679632
Or Syphon Filter.

>>53688412
As so she's a abuser instead of a lover.
That is very sad.

>>53681741
Of course it is balanced. Why would it not be? The enemy can use the same rules, so it only increases the lethality of the system.

If the rules have to be so arbitrary as to disallow hitting a single target twice while allowing hitting multiple targets once, the rules have to be fixed.

Why does this thread die so frequently?

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Hrm. When using Interrupt Actions like Parry, Riposte or Block, do you add the full dicepool of the relevant skill to your defence test, or is it just the actual skill levels and other bonuses?

>>53688668
Not enough arguments about the verisimilitude of boobs, according to recent threads.

>>53688668
As much as the truth sucks, most of us don't have time to shitpost 24/7, omae.
Heck, I'm about to enter an abandoned arcology site or something in freakin' Chicago of all places, I got more important things to worry about here!

>>53684185
Touch indirect combat spells have a potential to be really strong. They cause drain at force -6, meaning you can dish them out at force 8 without incurring any additional drain. If you find yourself in melee range as a mage, they might be worth looking at. And I tell you, there's nothing better for knocking out someone than a punch spell at force 12.

>>53688729
Just skill rating + applicable specializations

>>53688796
Where does it say that?
I would have thought full dice pool.

I got some worries, omae. Doing my first 5e game in a week and stepping out of my comfort zone of street samurai-dom I've been rocking since 3e and playing a decker. No problem, right? Well, the 'problem' is that after I chose decker, one of my asshat associates decided to change their character from a physical adept to a shapeshifter tech-rigger. Past games in other parties taught me pretty early on that a tech-anything steps all over decker toes at doing things deckers do, so I'm wondering if 5e means I'm going to have to put up with this pretender fucking in my turf constantly. Any insights?

>>53688729
Huh. Okay.

So body sculpting or implants 2.0?

>>53688855
1) In the description it says "add skill" not "add skill+attribute"
2) If you read Defender Qualities from Run and Gun the phrasing is exactly the same. So for Agile defender you would use Agility instead of Willpower and for Acrobatic Defender you would replace Will with Gymnastics rating.
If you use the reading that skill = skill rating+stat Acrobatics defender would be twice as powerful as Agile defender for the same price
3) Also it wont make sense for Full Defence to be one stat for -10 and Block to be skill+stat for -5

>>53688997
Budy sculpting, hands down. You can even change your gender with it.

>>53688796
Boo, that's what I thought. Oh well, figures. Code's set up to do what I want with that anyway, no big deal.
>>53688855
Technically, a Pistols Test is Pistols + AGI. We're all just used to concatenating it together into one thing since the linked attribute is almost always used.

>>53689001
Yeah but even if Acrobatic Defender is AGI+Gymnastics it's STILL worse than Agile Defender since it's only good for one attack instead of the whole combat turn, AND your successes are now subject to your Physical Limit because you introduced a skill into the equation.

>>53689298
Wait nvm about the one attack thing, limit still applies tho

>>53689311
Which is what? 6? 7?
If you have high enough dice pool with full defense you are guaranteed to have high enough limit

What's your runner's favourite pet?

>>53690067
Pussy

>>53690067
Other runners.
I play a lot of combat monsters who treat the faces/etc like pets.

>>53690067
My rating 6 Agent programs, Philo and Lenny.

>When the party for a wacky one shot has a character literally called Dan Eagleman who wants to reunify the United States of America and let Freedom ring
>And an extremely butthurt native bowuser who is based off of John Redcorn from KotH
Fun annecdotes include:
>Dan always calling the native (Rushing River) Running Water, at which point he's always corrected
>Rushing River talking about how the white man stole his land while Dan claims everywhere in the world belongs to America
>Rushing River pointing out the ghost dance when Dan says that deep down everyone wants to be an American
>General banter™

>>53690509
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUp62AGE9JU

>>53690572
Basically yeah.
We play this oneshot every year around e3 after getting drunk from e3 drinking games and it's always great.

Last year we ended up infiltrating a horizon studio to play as the "big bad runner team" in a trideo about an all catgirl HTR team which went pretty well until the big gunfight scene where our Sammy forgot to load blanks into his gun and blew a catgirls hand off
things got pretty loud and messy after that

>>53690638
>>53690572
>>53690509
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrjbeE90vVY

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>>53688859
It'll probably be the other way around in 5e, really. Gone are the days when you could throw down a couple thousand nuyen and call yourself a hacker. Cyberdecks and skills take enough investment that if he was edging in on your game he'd be thoroughly gimping his rigging. Instead he should be begging for you to protect his pet drones from other hackers.

I want to make a guy that focuses on pistols.
Perhaps dual wielding them, but I heard dual wielding is shit so I might give up on that aspect.

But it just seems that all the other weapons are just so much stronger than pistols. Is a pistols build viable?

>>53692149
Dual wielding is actually viable with pistol adepts. You need to push your dicepool to 20+, at which point dual wielding will give you an individual dicepool of 10ish, and it becomes a viable way to avoid hitting limits, which you would otherwise do while using only one gun.

>>53692149
Dualwielding isn't shit if you got 24 dice. What it lacks in efficiency, it makes up for in cool. If you think it sounds fun to play, go for it.

>>53679442

That's not how automatic weapons work, though. Burst weapons fire all rounds in the burst before you can perceive the weapon has fired more than once.

Then there's futuristic concepts like recoil buffering which delays muzzle climb until the weapon has finished cycling.

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Anyone have a link to the shadow run repo? Debating doing this or Cyberpunk

>>53692188
If you really want to avoid limits, you can always trickshot.

>>53692188
>>53692213

So basically I can't really play dual wielder out of character creation but afterwards it becomes ok?

Since currently the max I can get in the dicepool is an 18 at character creation, with specialization and smartlink

>>53692242
18 dice is the bare minimum for dualwielding, because you will split to 9 and average 3 hits. That's good enough to hit most easy targets, but a dedicated dodger will run circles around you. Remember, you can always put one gun away.

>>53692149
By double-tapping and hand-loading your Predator or Guardian, you can hit 10p.

You'll never reach the same damage potential of a Shotgun or Assault Rifle, but you have your advantages. Tasers are socially acceptable to carry around in decent public spaces and do respectable damage. Holdouts are very easy to smuggle. People also worry less about a guy carrying a handgun on their hip than the guy who open carries an AK-97. As long as your dice pool is strong you'll have no issue being mechanically useful.

>>53690067
My loli has a cat. Nothing fancy, just a plain old cat.

She's considering getting another cat since she's away for long periods at a time.

>>53692242
You can get it higher but it takes work
7 agi elf adept
Attribute Boost (Agility) (with 6 mag you'll have 7 dice to boost agi, so usually +2 agi for 9)
6 in pistols, +2 specialty with [Type]
6 ranks of Improved Ability (Pistols)
+1 from brand loyalty for a specific type of pistol
+1 from a non-implanted smartlink or laser sight
Badda bing badda boom, 23 dice with your pistol of choice. Could probably pump it higher if you went bioadept but that's a bit cheesy.

Non adept version:
7 Agi elf
rating 3 used muscle toner
6 in pistols, +2 for spec
+2 for an implanted smartlink
+1 for brand loyalty
+1 for reflex recorder (pistols)
20 dice as a mundane

These are also just off the top of my head, you can totally make two pistols work, and most people won't get pissed since dual wielding pistols is FAR from game breaking.

>>53692281
>>53692149
Supporting this, handloading is fucking great.
For example, if you handload APDS you can make the rounds have +1DV -4AP, meaning in a Warhawk you can be sending out 10P -5AP, or with a guardian you can be tossing out 9P -5AP with burst fire.
It's not as good as an Ares Alpha, but with two and the bonuses for being socially acceptable, it makes it useful in a lot of situations.

>>53692222
it's in the op dummy
>>53692226
Trickshots aren't as cool though
>>53692242
Play an adept and grab the pistol boosting stuff, or possibly that pistol boosting cyberarm if you're a sammy. I've got 20ish with a highly unoptimized character. And nah, 18 is ok. 9 dice in shooting people will let you kill most things, and in a worst case scenerio you can fire just one gun.

>>53692407
what is reflex recorder?

>>53692407
Bioadept ver:
7 Agi elf (5 mag)
6 skill +2 spec
5 ranks of improved ability (pistols)
Attribute boost (agility) (6d6 in this case but still averaging 2 hits)
+2 Rating 2 muscle toner
+1 Reflex recorder for pistols
+2 Implanted smartlink
+1 brand loyalty

For like, 28 or so dice. Could also fuck with cyberarms and redliner if you wanted.

>>53692505
Bioware that gives you a +1 dicepool with a specific skill.

>>53692498
>Trickshots aren't as cool though
Called shots are the best

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>>53678584
I want to see geneware and symbionts take a bigger role. It's the kind of thing that has a lot of potential.
>>53678842
>Will we see bioware smartlinks in 6th edition?
I don't think it's likely. Unless we start getting bits of grey matter in our guns.

>>53692553
>>53692498
Guys, what about
Dual wielding trick shots
If you take perfect time you get two free actions to to a multiple-attack and a called shot

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>>53678735
You could easily interpret it as multiple shots hitting; instead of one well-aimed bullet that strikes in a vital area, instead it's a spray where several bullets hit glancing blows across the armour, the arms, or other areas where multiple small injuries could occur.

>>53692572
And if you take Strive for Perfection and Sharpshooter, you can negate most of the penalties for trickshots. But I'd say we're dangerously close to cheeseland here.

Do I have to play an inhuman monster if I make a character with 0.3 essence or something?

>>53692644
Absolutely not. Your social limit is a bit down, but you don't have to be a monster. It's only if you take cyberpsychosis you have to be a killbot.

>>53692644
No. However, people with low essence are at a higher risk for things like superhuman psychosis, cyberpsychosis, and disassociation.
Some people suffer some effects but control them.
Some people suffer almost no ill effects.
It's up to how you play your character, how long they've had the implants, how and why they got them, how they deal with it, etc etc
The mechanical difference between 6 and 0.1 essence can be fixed by wearing an expensive suit.

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>>53680027
More nekkid=more better.

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>>53683258
You could use the rules for underbarrel grenade launchers.

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>>53688317
>mechanics have butlers?

Not all anthrodones are for sexe, anon. There is absolutely a knockoff of the S-K secretarybot with a Tim Curry skin. He butles.

>>53692888
Do they have a Pennyworth edition? So I can be cyberbatman?

>>53688627
>>53600420

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rate pls, about to have my first game tomorrow.

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>>53692943
You can, but only if you take Distinctive Style, Prejudice (Radical, Common: Criminals) and whatever best represents daddy issues.

>>53693119
Say what you will about that show, but the batmobile was neat.

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>>53693072
Did you not do any of the gear? No smg, drugs, anything like that. Can't rate half a character.

Cybertechnology is the skill for designing cyberware, and there are no rules for that. Unless you really want that skill for fluff reasons, ditch and put the points in Con/Etiquette - you need to be able to lie and stand in a room without spaghetti.

not even going to get into a dryad with cyberlimbs

>>53693196
I've been told not to worry about gear and weapons for now since we'll be doing some sort of tutorial mission and we can equip ourselves after that with the reward.

Adept Ways good or bad ?

>>53692554
Techno's don't need gray matter in their guns or metal in their bodies. That's the point.

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>>53693277
Tell your GM that you're going to be shit at your job unless you get some drugs to deal with your initiative issues. Looks like you planned for that, but without them you're going to have a hell of time trying to do any sort of melee. As well, you're going to want to bump up your WIL to 5; you only get WIL/BOD bonuses at odd numbers, and if you are going druggie more is better.

>>53693301
But technos don't follow any of the other rules of the Matrix/Tech. If they get to the point where they can replicate techno powers with bioware in a person alone, then we're a skip and a jump from doing the same with magic. Also it invalidates technomancers as a concept, which they are unlikely to do.

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What does the stack option do?

>>53693605
Stack stackable armor.

>>53693647
This is from adding ammo, though.

>>53692623
Or it's several bullets hitting in one spot, weakening the armor until one finally punches through.

As happens with most body armor.

>>53692219
>Burst weapons fire all rounds in the burst before you can perceive the weapon has fired more than once.
No, they really don't.

>>53693764
In SR they do

>>53693883
No, they really don't.

>>53693892
chummer, even with burst fire (the smallest one) you can fire 9 bullets in 3 seconds, if you have the initiative booster, just by getting 3 IP
this means that a highly enhanced sammy with a normal weapon can fire 3 bullets per second, just with burst fire
Full Auto (10 bullets) means 30 bullets per CT, or 10 bullets per second
tell me, can you tell the difference between one bullet and ten bullets per second?

And again, the only thing this depends on is YOUR SPEED, not the gun, so apparently every FA capable gun could theoretically fire 10-13 bullets per second (depending on your IPs)

Yes, in SR they fucking can

>Yolo Pascal
yes captcha, I don't think SR thinks a lot about physics

>>53694486
>tell me, can you tell the difference between one bullet and ten bullets per second?
You definitely can. The crack of a single gunshot starts quieting down after far less than a second, whereas 10 fired continuously would constantly be making supersonic cracks/bangs from the gasses escaping.

>>53694486
Also, firing 10 bullets per second is nothing extraordinary, almost any automatic small arm can reach that.
>The M4 carbine has a firerate between 700 and 950 rounds per minute, which is ~12-16 bullets per second.
>The Uzi has a firerate of 600rpm, or 10 bullets per second
>The CZ-Skorpion (what the black scorpion machine pistol in SR is based on) has a fire rate of 900rpm, or 15 bullets per second
>The AK74 has a firerate between 600-650rpm or about 10 bullets per second

>>53694486

Yes, that's why weapons who fire bursts 'you can't feel individual bullets in' do it in less than a few hundredths of a second, before the recoil from the first round can impact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN-94

>>53694486
>tell me, can you tell the difference between one bullet and ten bullets per second?
Are you kidding? I can tick out 5 rounds in a second with just semi-auto, >>>/wsg/1728972 related, 19 rounds in about 4 seconds.
>Yes, in SR they fucking can
Legacy guns exist in shadowrun universe, and I can tell you for a fact that they don't shoot fast enough for no recoil to register to the shooter.

>>53694486
Actually you'd be hard pressed to find a fully automatic small arm that COULDN'T fire more than 10 bullets per second.

>>53688729
Holy shit, is that North Korea's military? They look like the fucking Rockettes.

>>53695023
>for no recoil to register to the shooter.
that's what RC is for

>>53695124
We're not talking about RC, we're talking about recoil not even coming into effect before all rounds have been fired. Modern weapons have RC (stocks, the kriss vectors internal system, etc)

>>53694552
>>53694645
>>53694989
>>53695023
>>53695084
huh, didn't know
but the designers most likely didn't either

t. nogunz

>>53694989
It's not just that the AN fires fast, it also has a fancy recoil dampening system. The whole barrel moves backwards to eliminate felt recoil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtMssTSnRHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJxpncKswEg

>>53695124
No it's not. RC doesn't mean the recoil is eliminated, it means you are able to control the recoiling weapon.

>>53683190
Krime boss. Gunheaven 3. Forget the page # tho

>>53695165
It's also prohibitively expensive and far too cool for this timeline.

>>53695165
Yes exactly, it has to fire all the rounds before the recoil spring fully compresses and transmits felt recoil.

Arguably easier to do with electric ignition and caseless rounds since you don't have to worry about ejecting brass, but still has to be done in hundredths of a second, not tenths.

>>53695164
No worries anon.
Some weapons have a surprisingly high rate of fire
For example, the Kriss Vector has an RPM of 1,400 and it's a submachine fed with 30 round magazines, meaning it can empty a magazine in about 1.3 seconds.

>>53695223
I agree with you on everything except this:
>>Arguably easier to do with electric ignition and caseless rounds since you don't have to worry about ejecting brass
Ejecting brass is not a bottleneck in the cycle of a firearm, it's picking up a new cartridge from the magazine. Since the bolt has to move back far enough to pick up a new round, it can also fling out a spent casing at the same time.

The advantage of a caseless cartridge is the savings in weight, not making the action cycle faster.

It's true for electric firing since there's no need for a mechanical spring to deliver a shock to the primer, but the time saved in that is altogether negligible.

>>53695238
Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv33pCUkLRM

Hell of a shotgun.

God damm it
How does anyone play AI ever
This rules are impossible to use

>>53695382
Take all your ideas about being a superhacker AI and roll them up into a BIIIIIIG ball.
Got em? Okay, good.
Throw them in the trash.
Make an AI cheerleader who has 13 cha at chargen and can upgrade their cha to literally unlimited levels. Give your buds +7 dice to any action with leadership(direct), make security guards into drooling idolfags in seconds with 21 dice in performance(Dance) with a trid projector, and make everyone in your party gain +5 initiative from shouting "mina! Gambare!" over comms

>>53695474
I did
Tried to build something like a face that is not leadership in jar
I was disappointed
The attempts and suffering continues

>>53695474
Reminder that all AIs should be yandere.

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>>53695585

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>>53695585
>>53695619
Tsun- or Kuu- works better.
Yandere loses lots of it's appeal when you make them omni-present being unbound by physical limits by default. Because the glory of yandere is in having those limitations and overcoming them through grit, creativity and dedication.

>>53695583
Well, you could also pick up that hologram drone or an arthroform drone to be a physical face as well.

>>53695585
Reminder that all AIs should be cute and naïve until they learn about the harsh realities of the world at which point they become cynical and jaded and willing to do anything to protect the few things they love. Consensual or not..

Guns on mages. Discuss.

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>>53695583
The classic: https://pastebin.com/u687vu13

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>>53695819
Important part of your cover. Carry an SMG and don't look like the mage. Then again why even play a mage if can't put on your robe and wizard hat.

Oh god
I just had a dumb Idea
Allergy(Severe, Bullets)
Dumb, or THE dumbest idea?

>>53695819
Depends
Are you trying to stand out as a high and mighty, better than you wizard with a robe, staff and pointy hat? In that case guns are so uncivilized.
Are you smart enough to realize that geek the mage first should be the fifth line of the shadowrunning creed? Grab a rifle and look useful like everyone else. Also, if you're gonna carry a rifle, might as well be able to use it

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>>53695777
The AI is actually way more physically limited than the typical schoolgirl. Are you devoted enough to risk GOD just to hijack a random delivery drone and have it crash into the girl standing too close to your beloved? Are you able to prove to everyone that he is yours and yours alone in 15-minute bursts, dodging Overwatch and the rightful owners of the physical bodies you're hijacking, before you retreat to your home node? It works way better to explain why they are driven to violence; if they can only really get out for short periods, need to reboot after extended periods on the ground, and are otherwise deaf and blind to what their beloved does, that inspires paranoid jealousy.

So long as no-one gives them a drone to use permanently, AI are entirely dependent on a meatspace partner.

>>53695819
One mage I really want to play sometime is a pyromaniac who has a focus built into his flamethrower and pretends all his spells are in fact just cool flamethrower tricks.

>>53696266
I wanted a pet AI in my cyberdeck, and was sorely disappointed I couldn't have one.

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>>53696479
Get an Agent with some personality.

>>53696594
I did, but it's not the same as having a pet AI capable of complete independent action with a range of capabilities.

>>53696903
People aren't pets. If you want to have two characters, ask your GM if you can play two characters. Then he slaps you.

>>53696903
>>53696951
>>53696594
Or just see if another player would be interested in being your AI bud in your cyberdeck who sometimes dumpshocks you as a prank bro

>>53696951
>AI
>people
Evofag, please. I code it, it's mine, plain and simple.

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>>53697305
>implying you can code an AI

You couldn't code a microwave. Besides, kids are made directly by people but are independent entities. A punk should be fighting for the rights denied by the corps, dragons, and other bullies in their ivory towers, not encouraging the powerless to eat each other.

>>53696161
How many dice can you expect to throw at a gun test though? I can get behind the idea of having to blend in, maybe even having one as a last resort when you have too much drain, but is it even worth the skill points?

>>53697343
>coding a microwave
Baka, that's hardware, like kids. Discorporate entities are spirits, nothing more, and therefore have no rights.

>>53697391
I'd say including a smartlink in the glasses you should strive for 6-9 dice, just so you can do Suppressive Fire with 2-3 hits

>close 40000
captcha, this is SR not 40k

>>53696145
How would that even work? Are you allergic to bullets as a concept, or some specific part that is magically a part of every bullet?

>>53697711
He's allergic to the propellant residue. He can't be around guns that are firing without a gasmask or chemical seal, and the residue on bullets causes complications if he's shot.

>>53697733
Wouldn't that be Allergy (Gunpowder) ?
Though lead allergy is a thing.

>>53697733
Then wouldn't that be Allergy (Smokeless Propellant)?

>>53697784
>>53697803
Sure, why not? But I'm not the guy who originally suggested it. Just suggesting a way it could work.

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>>53697803
>>53697733
Honestly Allergy(Severe, Smokeless Propellant) would be something I'd totally allow at my table. It's certainly a creative way to justify a character wearing gasmasks all the time at least.

>>53698124
I'm the guy that proposed it
It was meant as a joke, you know? Deadly allergic to bullets, especially if they are inside me

Probably allergic against the actual bullet (as in what gets propelled). So touching a bullet at the tip would trigger the allergy, especially if that tip is moving at great speeds into my body

>>53696479
Just take the AI as a contact, and tanke the dependent quality to represent you having to pay it's way.

>>53698170
Yeah, problem is it's neither a good joke nor an allergy if it's something that everyone reacts poorly to.

>>53696903
>pet AI
>>53696951
>People aren't pets
AI aren't people. Animal grade intelligence AI definitely aren't people.

>>53698461
But street sams with 1 log are considered human. What difference in mental capacity is there between them and an animal intelligence grade AI?

>>53698498
The difference is in lineage. People are born, not made.

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>>53697641
Honestly corporeal entities should have less rights than spirits.

>>53698523
>People are born, not made.
(META-)HUMANS are born. PEOPLE are made

>>53698498
Logic 1 is not mentally incapable. Logic + Intuition form intelligence. Logic by itself grades academic and technical potential.

Protosapient and Xenosapient AI are not equal in general comprehension and human response to a (meta)human, regardless of Logic rank.

>>53695172
>Krime boss. Gunheaven 3. Forget the page # tho

I don't have Gunh(e)aven 3 or 5th edition for that matter. what I've seen online suggests that its cheap, though there are better guns chat are cheaper, and not particularly reliable, though it does have some recoil compensation.

What makes this a gun you could bury or stash somewhere without maintenance, then pull out and have it ready in a moment or two, to reliably go bang and probably hit what you are aiming at if you do your part ?

>>53699062
>I don't have Gunh(e)aven 3 or 5th edition for that matter.
CHUMMER
OP
PASTEBIN
MEDIAFIRE
BOOKMARK IT

>>53695340
>Hell of a shotgun.

there are no shotguns anywhere in your post anon.

>>53699082

I don't currently want to dump a bunch of rulebooks from something else for an edition that I'm not playing in.

But thank you for trying to help people get access to books.

>>53699141
Lurk more.

>>53698523
AI are also born in the sixth world through fragments of deus.

>>53699022
I've seen street sams with lower mental scores than the textbook example of a dog. If a dog is smarter than a street sam, then why is the sam even considered human?

>>53699339
>If a dog is smarter than a street sam
That's where you're still not picking up what's being laid out in front of you. A dog is not smarter. It simply has a higher Logic score and no Sapience.

>AI are also born in the sixth world through fragments of deus.
And programmed.

>Not to mention the AIs we have programmed and then set loose to program other things and develop personalities that will allow them to accomplish tasks the programmers could not have envisioned, making a world we are practically guaranteed not to understand. By design, these beings will develop parts of the Matrix that are completely foreign to us, unexplored and unknown.

>>53693605
Don't have access to the code at present, from memory it adds the quantity to the first stack of existing items that you have. Unselecting it should create a new stack of items.

What's the one character you most enjoyed playing?

>>53699082
He's playing 4e. Something something reading comprehension.

>>53700087
yes, and I pointed him towards the place where he can get the books and read it

>>53700087
Gun Heaven is for 4th and 5th dumbass. Reading Comprehension.

I'm making an NPC with a low magic score, but there's quite a few spells that specifically rely on Force of the spell and not net hits, meaning normal limit breakers like edge and reagents don't help with improving the spell's actual effect.

What options does a low-magic character have to boost a spell's Force beyond the default Magic x 2?

>>53700409
In 5e?
Reagents
LOTS of Reagents

>>53700427
Sorry, yeah, I meant 5e.

Are you sure? Here's what the book says what reagents can do for spellcasting. (p.317)

>Spellcasting: In a pinch, you can spend reagents to set the limit for Spellcasting. Rather than using the spell’s Force as the limit, use the number of drams of reagents spent.

Based on the wording, it doesn't seem like reagents replace the spell's actual Force. It only replaces [Force] with [Reagent] for the skill test so mages can make use of their dice. I'd be happy if I was wrong though.

>>53700622
>>53700640
OH, you mean actually increasing the FORCE, not just the limit?
Dunno about that. don't think that's actually possible

>>53700179
That ain't reading comprehension, that's just not lurking more.

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>>53698168
And a definite motivation to get a good Lifestyle

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>>53699481
So some are born and some are made. Some metahumans are born, some are made in vats for spare parts. WIMPs aren't people because they're not sapient. Many AIs are sapient; the thing you quoted specifically talks about how they are so sapient that they are out there creating their own personalities and world to live in, inaccessible and incomprehensible to metahumans.

>>53692281
>>53692462

What is this handloading?

I was already planning to load by hand, since you can place bullets up to agility right? which is more than enough for my revolver.
But do you get some other bonus to handloading, or is it a special skill or something?

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>>53701165
Handloading is making your own ammunition. Rules in R&G or Hard Targets, iirc.

>>53700664
Right now, the only workaround I see is using a liberal interpretation of Power Foci.
>Power foci live up to their name. They are very powerful foci that temporarily increase your effective Magic rating. That means they add to your Sorcery, Conjuring, and Enchanting dice pools, along with any other test where Magic is involved.
>temporarily increase your effective Magic rating

If you treat Power foci as an augmentation, then its rating would be included in Magic x 2 and let the mage cast stronger spells. It's a solution, but I dislike how bland power foci are. It turns a low magic character into a low magic character in name only, if that makes sense. That's why it'd be great if there were other options to increase effective Force even if it meant something like a drastic increase in drain.

>>53701218
sounds cool. I hope its not too complicated. I assume it makes use of the armorer skill? If so thats great because I had already picked it out.

>>53701274
>temporarily increase your effective Magic rating
Read exactly what it says following this.

>That means they add to your [...] dice pools

Power Foci are not augmentations to the Magic attribute.

>>53701165
>>53701218
It's in Hard Targets, p189. Adds +1 DV or -1AP to ammo you craft with armorer skill. The bullets cost 10% more than what you can normally buy, but the time and thresholds to craft are really low. You'd easily be able to craft enough bullets for your whole team between missions if you want. Make sure to have a contact or two who can provide the necessary materials. Your GM might have their own ideas on what crafting materials for futuristic bullets are and restrict where you can obtain these supplies, so a dedicated contact is a great buffer in case the issue ever comes up.

>>53701510
Almost there. For crafting materials they cost 110%. To buy they cost 125%.

>>53678849
Guns still work like real life in shadowrun, fuck you and your horrible argument

>>53702296
No, they don't. They're heavily abstracted for gameplay purposes.

>>53702296
If two people hold the trigger down, the one on drugs makes the gun shoot faster.

>>53702447
>makes the gun shoot faster
The speed of the bullets and the rate of fire does not change. Higher initiative lines up shots and pulls the trigger more often.

>>53702692
That's why I said hold the trigger down. Having a higher initiative magically gives you a higher rate of fire. Recoil can't be used as a justification either because as an in-game mechanic it only affects your ability to hit the target.

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>>53703171
Because one person got their gun on target faster than the other person, and over the couple seconds that a turn lasts, were able to deliver more shots on target due to having their finger held down longer, ie before the opponent.

>>53703171
>Having a higher initiative magically gives you a higher rate of fire.
Nope. Repeating it will not make it so.

>That's why I said hold the trigger down.
SA, that won't help. You get one shot off per trigger pull.

BF, that won't help. You get three shots off per trigger pull.

FA, that will help, but is already covered by the rules. You get six/ten shots off that you can keep an aim on, or twenty that you spray and pray.

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How can I convince my group to take a vacation to a warzone? I've got the money for some serious dakka and the urge to just fuck shit up without worrying about a KE manhunt afterwards. and maybe I can jack a helicopter while we're down there, and the ride never has to end

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>really like the NPC crew we have, personalities, their backstories, their connections and how they've helped our crew a tremendous amount
>am actually sad that a few months down the road, the campaign will end and it's possible we'll never see them again

The only bright light is that a few might get to be reused if I end up playing the kid to my current character.
Provided he doesn't die like the basic bitch he is, of course. The life of a runner isn't always a long lasting one, even if your character wants to get out.

>>53704577
There's a rumor of cache from years ago. Decent chance it's still intact. Jewels and other collectors items of value.

>>53700640
Cast spells that care less about force and abuse reagents and edge.

Use direct combat spells, physical manipulation spells, and extended detection spells.

Illusions don't care as much about force as base, and only a certain few of the Health spells do.

>>53705061
Which spells would they be?

>>53705366
For Health it's mostly the attribute increases and Stabilize. Those have force minimums to actually cast. There are definitely some others I'm also not remembering.

Oh, and there's a small number of other spells that also do care, but are in the categories I mentioned. Mostly AoEs (but even 3 gives a fairly good area) but also a few others.

I'm GMing something especially stupid, and I need to figure out how to stat thrown jars of orichalcum-laced moonshine. Does Shadowrun having anything resembling a Wild Magic table?

>>53705594
The targets get a -2 dice penalty for looking shiny and smelling like a still, at least for most people.

If the targets would approve of waste, being drunk, or ostentatious shows of wealth, the penalty becomes a bonus.

(Even laced with orichalcum, it's just booze. Unless there's something else to work on the magic in the ori, it's going to just look pretty.)

>>53705609
Fluorescing Astral Bacteria, maybe?

>>53705619
Depends on the strain of FAB. Assuming that you've got an alcohol tolerant strain that's more inline with the common strain, then it would just result in an even shinier, glowier drink.

A FAB-III-alike, however, would be dangerous because it's based off the dangerous one. It'd possibly grow a little off minimal activation of the Orichalcum (and thus possibly last longer), but would be fairly 'safe' for mundanes and mages that remembered to take the right precautions. Dual natured stuff and spirits would rightly call the stuff poison.

>>53705652
Yeah, orichalcum molotovs seem like a dumb idea in general.

>>53705711
On the other hand, molotovs made from booze that somebody put orichalcum in to show how much of a rich bastard they are make more satisfying molotovs.

It's like fighting with a stack of hundreds of somebody else's money.

>>53705594
Crack open a copy of Parageology, and consider some of the minerals and their effects. There's way more than just Orichalcum to fuck about with.

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>>53704577
Wars put land under "new management" which means an opening for corps to secure assets. A corp that is third party to the war wants you to go in and stake their claim for the macguffin (minerals/artifacts/people).

>>53699481
>A dog is not smarter. It simply has a higher Logic score
It has higher mental stats, it's smarter. This isn't hard, you know.

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>so-called American Indians, AIs, and shapeshifters come from genetically mediocre stock!

>>53706018
Not him but it's not that simple. To accurately represent the intelligence of creatures ranging in intelligence from chickens to humans to dragons, the scale would have to be bigger than 1 to 12.

D&D's 1 to 30 system does it better.

>>53706376
You could easily say that log 1 + negative qualities mean lesser intelligence. That doesn't work because dogs have a log of 2, when 1 is the minimum.

>>53706018
... A dog has no Sapience critter power. Therefore no matter what its mental attribute array is, it is never not animal level intelligence.

Get with the system, anon. It's really simple, and I'm a little embarrassed by how hard you're failing here.

>>53706582
It has no sapience, no sense of self.

But it's still better at problem solving and 'smarter' than the 1 log streetsam.

...Do you have 1 log? I think I see the problem here.

>>53706597
Really framing yourself as the dimmer bulb / bait, anon.

>But it's still better at problem solving and 'smarter' than the 1 log streetsam.
>Sapient critters are self-aware, capable of making their own choices, and are generally at or above the level of Homo sapiens.
Non-sapient animals cannot approach problem solving from an rational perspective, as the street samurai can. No self-awareness, no critical decision making.

You need Sapience to be considered Untrained in skills you do not have, and to learn new skills by your own choice. RAW. Otherwise you are Unaware in all skills you do not have.

>Intimidation 4, Perception (Smell) 5 (+2), Running 5, Tracking 6, Unarmed Combat 5
Dogs automatically fail all skill checks, but these.

Logic rank does not compare against having Sapience, or it's equivalent - being a PC-capable race.

>>53706953
>Non-sapient animals cannot approach problem solving from an rational perspective, as the street samurai can. No self-awareness, no critical decision making.
"Me smash guy computer guy points out" is the extent of critical thinking a 1log street sam would be capable of. How's that different from a dog?
>You need Sapience to be considered Untrained in skills you do not have, and to learn new skills by your own choice. RAW. Otherwise you are Unaware in all skills you do not have.

Being able to figure out how to operate a lever to get treats is not a skill check, and the street sam would do worse in that test.

>Dogs automatically fail all skill checks, but these.
>It's the future, dogs can't swim! It's RAW, believe it!
No, catalyst is just lazy and incapable.

>>53707038
>"Me smash guy computer guy points out"
That's the extent of a random guy with Dimmer Bulb 3, Uneducated, etc. thrown at them until not only can they not make a roll without spending extra karma, when they do spend karma, they will (almost) never have enough dice to succeed.

>Being able to figure out how to operate a lever to get treats is not a check [with Sapience]
FTFY. Shadowrun does not do tests to breathe, tie shoelaces, etc.

>No, catalyst is just lazy and incapable.
As I consider you, anon.

>>53707077
>That's the extent of a random guy with Dimmer Bulb 3
You can take dimmer bulb 3 at 6 log and be way better off than someone with 1 log. Try again.
>Uneducated
Only refers to not having received formal education. Does not affect how intrinsically smart the person is.

>FTFY. Shadowrun does not do tests to breathe, tie shoelaces, etc.
It's a legitimate obstacle for someone with log1.

>As I consider you, anon.
Fair enough, but I don't write rulebooks for role playing systems either.

hey /srg/ awhile back i heard that there was a metamagic that allowed a mage to learn how to use a single spirit power so long as they were Astral Projecting, allowing shit like taking a spirits ability to manifest so that your Astral form can physically punch people.

If it's a real thing where could i find it? I'm in 5e, but if it was something from 4e i might be able to get my gm to let it slide.

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Does anyone know some good knowledge skills for an ex-desert wars veteran?

For a mercenary he's really tame.
He only has cybereyes, a gyromount cyberarm and tactical computer (SR2).
He probably enjoys combat way too much, though he's not your average cyborg soldier hard-ass but actually a pretty sociable guy.

>>53707102
>breathing and tying shoelaces are obstacles for a 1 log character

Is this bait? You're grossly underestimating 1 logic characters. They're not drooling retards incapable of rational thought, they're just not too good at the whole thinking thing.

To get a better understanding of your position, though, how do you believe a 1 log 6 int character would act?

>>53707434
More or less like a dog.

>>53707434
Like a well-trained dog or a low-pilot drone?

>>53707102
>It's a legitimate obstacle for someone with log1.
Nope.
>When you need to do something difficult or extraordinary, or when you need to avoid someone who has got you in their crosshairs, you have to roll the dice to determine a result.
>common tasks like eating, sleeping, and crossing an empty street—are done automatically and are kept in the background of the game.

>You can take dimmer bulb 3 at 6 log and be way better off than someone with 1 log.
Which matters not one fuck when we're talking about a guy with Logic 1.

Logic 1 tier arguments, anon. Just enough to get a reply.

>>53707434
It's definitely bait.

Wellp, I've done it. I have build the most gimmick team
I have no idea what for

>>53707587
>When you need to do something difficult or extraordinary
Exactly the point. Figuring out how to operate a microwave oven is something difficult or extraordinary when you're a cyborg with 1 log.

Eating, sleeping and walking are biological functions, they don't take brainpower to figure out.

>Which matters not one fuck when we're talking about a guy with Logic 1.
When you're someone with log 1 and all those negative qualities then you're even worse off than a dog with 2 log.

Let's put it like this:
Log 1 = down's syndrome
Log 1 + negative qualities = down's syndrome with lobotomy.

>>53707625
So post it.

>>53707630
>Figuring out how to operate a microwave oven is something difficult or extraordinary when you're a cyborg with 1 log.
No it is not. Neither is driving under everyday conditions.

Let's put it like this:
You're wrong.
Logic = academic & technical performance
Low Logic = poor performance
Low Logic & Intuition = unintelligent, but can perform with practice, repetition, teamwork, and/or equipment (kind of how I imagine you would eventually get it right if someone tattooed this on your forehead)
Low Logic & Intuition + Negative Qualities = functionally incapable

>>53707652
>No it is not. Neither is driving under everyday conditions.
Sure, in the shadowrun universe, where cars are in gridguide and you can just sit there, doing fuck all.

>Low Logic & Intuition = unintelligent, but can perform with practice, repetition, teamwork, and/or equipment
Or training. Like dogs.

What was your point again?

>>53707671
>Sure, in the shadowrun universe, where cars are in gridguide and you can just sit there, doing fuck all.
Sure. Except without the gridguide, you're still not rolling for a sunday drive.

>>53707683
Except if you're a character with 1log 1int.

>>53707685
See >>53707652
>You're wrong.

>autistic argument over what a low Int character is realistically capable of
>in a game set in a future where orks and elves steal shit from corporations run by dragons and the internet is a deadly video game
>in one of the most notoriously power-gamey systems
Big dumb troll good at smash things but not go matrix.
What is permit? I just shoot big gun.
There. Done. 1 Int.

>>53707790
Even big dumb troll with Log 1 / Int 1 and Unarmed Combat 6 can roll 7 dice to find a not-so-well-known martial arts dojo or tell you about unarmed combat related trivia, will have a few actual knowledge skill points to throw around, and can perform simple tasks up to and including driving without using dice.

Unlike non-sapient critters.

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>>53707296
Doesn't ring any bells. Were you maybe thinking of Conjure Ally? That's the closest thing I can think of.

So is this the 4th or the 5th time the autists are arguing over 1 log characters?

>>53707890
The log 1 arguments will continue until morale improves.

>>53707890
>Has difficulty counting
Maybe you ought to get that log 1 checked out

I'm currently making my first character. Is there any reason to go for alphaware over standard other than saving a bit of essence?

>>53707841
That's what I meant.
It's stupid to start an argument over how a 1 Int character should struggle with every day life in a setting as silly as Shadowrun.

>>53708059
alphaware is also more difficult to detect by cyberware scanners

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>>53707935
Moral Improving commencing
500 nuyen and bottle of grain whiskey for everyone who stops being miserable asshole and cheers up

>>53708059
It's mainly for eventual power creep.
At some point you run out of essence and then you might want to consider upgrading to alpha to have more room for additonal ware.
Then you move to beta and eventually agree to a devil's bargain with an evil megacorp of your choice to turn you into a cyberzombie abomination.

Aside from that it looks nicer and impresses the ladies more than your noisy, second-hand military surplus cyberarm cased in rust-coloured bakelite.

>>53703748
>You get six/ten shots off that you can keep an aim on
per initiative pass
of which you can have between 1 and IIRC 5 or 6 (if you REALLY minmax)
so one person can fire 10 bullets per 3 seconds (1IP) another 30 bullets per 3 seconds (3IP) and possibly 50 bullets per 3 seconds (5IP)

And how many bullets you can fire does not depend on the weapon or the ammunition, but purely on the person firing

>>53708186
How the hell do you get 5 initiative passes, with the whole "nothing stacks" thing?

>>53708212
move-by-wire 3 + Accelerator

>>53708212
with a LOT of minmaxing
IIRC the lowest INI he could roll was 31
he was Fast

>>53708186
Which is when your DM laughs at you and introduces you to the concept of 'mechanical limitations', where it doesn't matter how fast you pull a trigger if the weapon itself can't cycle any faster than its rate of fire will allow for.

If you're going to dump that much effort into a Initiative that high, the only moving parts should be you.

>>53708326
>Shadowrun is totes realistic guiz! See, I even have houserules to prove it!

Baaaait.

>>53708326
>its rate of fire
I wasn't aware weapons in SR had a defined rate of fire beyond FA/BF/SA/SS.

>>53708355
It doesn't, it's just realism autist being realism autist.

>>53707873
Maybe? Conjure ally does give me a few ideas.
It mostly came to mind because i'm trying to build an Explorer, the aspect mages whose one trick is that they can Astrally Project, and figured that someone whose pushed their Astral form so far that they're almost spirit-like would be kinda cool.

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>>53708355
>>53708392
I don't know about 5th ed, but in older editions all firearms had a hard cap of 10 bullets per combat round (15 for super machineguns).

It's also common sense.

Doesn't stop all those muchkins from arguing that they should be able to magically squeeze more bullets out of their pea-shooter though.
They also love to forget that recoil carries over into their next intiative passes.

>>53708659
>I don't know about 5th ed
Then stop talking about it like you do, there's no bullet cap in 5th edition. Common sense would also require more of an explanation for nukes not working than 'lol magic', but that's the 6th world for you.

>>53708659
>I don't know about 5th ed, but in older editions all firearms had a hard cap of 10 bullets per combat round (15 for super machineguns).
Older editions also had a flowchart that took up two pages instead of rules for defaulting on skills. Your point?
>common sense
If any of us had any goddamn sense we'd be playing a less terrible game.

>>53708659
>common sense
>CGL

Pick. One.

>>53708659
>They also love to forget that recoil carries over into their next intiative passes.
which is why people get enough RC so there is no recoil to put over
as long as your RC (1+STR/3+Weapon RC) is equal or higher than 9 you don't take any recoil
which means that a normal human with STR 3 needs a Weapon RC of 7, which is doable

Oh and previous editions weren't much more realistic in total (metas being allergic to their own ware, being able to make weapons and vehicles that were op, etc.)

Honestly guys, if you are this triggered by unrealistic weapon mechanics, why do you play SR?
Why not play something like GURPS or "Ops and Tactics" and just add the SR setting (which is also batshit insane)?

>>53708687
I'm not the guy from: >>53708326

I just wanted to point out that it's been a thing in SR since the start.
It might exist in SR5 too or they might have forgotten to include it.

Nukes are a really dumb comparison as players generally don't have nukes at their disposal, so the reason why they're not working is entirely inconsequential, while firearms are ubiquitous.

There's really nothing you can say that doesn't make you sound like "B-b-but I can shoot as many rounds per second as I want because the rules don't say I can't ...".

>>53708732
Yeah, but recoil is cumulative while RC doesn't refresh until your next round, so you'll quickly run out of RC if you keep squeezing that full-auto with your 5 INI passes.

>>53708784
Sure you're not. That's why you have the same ignorance of 5th edition. 'Might or might not exist'.

The book's in the pastebin. Read nigga.

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>>53708326
>>53708659

I'll bite. This one's for (you).

An M16 has a cyclic fire-rate of 700 rounds a minute, which means that you can fire 11 rounds a second on full-auto. Which means that you can dump an entire 30 round magazine in less than 3 seconds. This is considered to be fairly low on the when compared with other automatics such as the MP5 (800 rounds/min) the FAMAS G2 (1100 rounds/min) or even the MG42 (1200-1500 rounds/min).

Now does that mean that the weapons can handle that many discharges for an hour? Hell no, the MG42 would literally melt its own barrel, and had to have 3 barrels and a bucket of water so that they could use it continuously. Since there are absolutely zero rates of fire established for any of the weapons, we can assume that the fire-rate of every automatic weapon is high enough to be a non-issue and that the materials used in creating the barrel and the mechanism are resistant to heat.

Now I'm not saying that Shadowrun is sooper realistic guiz, but considering the fact that there is magic, robots, fully-working cybernetic augmentation, handheld miniguns, injecting one's conscious into the internet, and that Ares invented a way to shoot a 10 meter long tungsten rod with the help of electromagnetic acceleration from space so quickly that it can hit the Earth in 18 seconds means that it's within the realm of possibilities.

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>>53708865
>sure you're not

>>53708186
>>53708326
Seeing a fire rate of 50 bullets per 3 seconds is perfectly possible considering rate of fire on firearms TODAY is generally a minimum of 600rpm (10 bullets a second) and usually more (~900 in the case of the M4 for 15 bullets per second, and in the case of the Vector, 1,400rpm for 23bps) so there's no reason to believe that a firearm in the sixth world could not fire just as fast, if not faster.
The differences between being able to fire more than one long FA burst is target acquisition moreso than it is the fire rate of the gun.

Hey
There was a talk about being able to make custom override file that would place notes with the description on every item
Did that go through ?

>>53708784
A fire rate cap of 10 bullets per 3 seconds makes absolutely zero fucking sense in game or from a realism point of view.
That would mean that fully automatic weapons have an rpm cap of 200, with 300 for LMGs, which is fucking laughable even by our standards today and is roughly a third of the baseline (you really won't find anything lower than 600rpm unless you REALLY try)

>>53708924
Except an M16 has no full-auto capability, just semiautomatic and 3-round burst. You never come close to achieving a 700 rpm cyclic rate, it'd shatter your trigger mechanism and bolt carrier cotter pin to even try, so you won't, in fact, ever fire 11 rounds a second from an M16. It simply isn't designed for it. It's not made of the right stuff for it, because it wasn't ever meant to do it. So saying that you can dump an entire mag of an Ares Predator 2 in less than a second just because you have a finger than can fuck a trigger well 60 times within that second means you're going to break your gun trying to force it to keep up with you beyond the scope of its mechanical capability. It doesn't matter if YOU can handle it if the weapon can't.

It's the same mechanical limitation issue that the engine of an M1A2 Abrams tank could, in theory, reach a speed in excess of 200 mph on-road speed, except that the tracks of the tank strip off at 80 mph, well beneath the engine's actual capability. A mechanical limitation. It doesn't matter that the engine can handle it if the rest of the vehicle can't.

The rules, obviously, disagree, though they did in the past, which is fine and dandy because it means the bad guys get to do that same shit back to you, but it would have been nice to have had someone on the Catalyst team not be a nogunz piece of shit and consider the ramifications of their copious errors in judgment when it comes to firearms, and no, I don't buy for a moment that whatever titanium/polymer/ceramic whatsamahigger material they're using is capable of mass production to allow for such blatant fuckery at the cost of what the book prices them at.

>>53709093
Do you really expect realistic numbers from a game that has been unable to learn the difference between clips and magazines in over 25 years?

>>53708659
In 3e it was 10 bullets per combat phase, which is not the same as a combat turn.

Now max core only initiative in 3e was Reflexes 10 (if you were a super elf) + 6 for Reaction Enhancer 6 + 3 for WR 3 + 4d6 also for WR 3. So 19+4d6, a range of 23 to 43 or 3 to 5 combat passes in a combat turn.

So if you were that build, you could fire off anywhere between 30 and 50 rounds in one combat turn for 3e assuming you had a full auto weapon, at least that many bullets in it, and decided to go a full ten shot full auto burst on some poor target or targets.

>>53709129
>it'd shatter your trigger mechanism and bolt carrier cotter pin to even try
see
>>53708924
>but considering the fact that there is magic, robots, fully-working cybernetic augmentation, handheld miniguns, injecting one's conscious into the internet, and that Ares invented a way to shoot a 10 meter long tungsten rod with the help of electromagnetic acceleration from space so quickly that it can hit the Earth in 18 seconds means that it's within the realm of possibilities.

SR plays about 60 years in the future. Who's to say that material science won't improve?

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>>53709090
I haven't implemented it yet, no. I'll put some more work into it once I sort out the last of this attributes issue.

>>53708784
>There's really nothing you can say that doesn't make you sound like "B-b-but I can shoot as many rounds per second as I want because the rules don't say I can't ...".

Being 100% correct about how the rules work in both function and intention is the only thing one needs in a discussion about the rules, especially if the proposed "fix" to the non-problem is both worse than the original rules and less realistic.

>>53709129
>Except an M16 has no full-auto capability
The initial M16 was designed with fully automatic fire in mind and did not have burst fire capability.
That was added in the M16A2 for reasons that troops would waste ammunition, not that the gun would tear itself apart if you magdumped.

You're also ignoring the plethora of other firearms which have both fully automatic fire AND a higher rate of fire than 700. Such as the MP5, AUG, FAMAS, G36, etc

>and no, I don't buy for a moment that whatever titanium/polymer/ceramic whatsamahigger material they're using is capable of mass production to allow for such blatant fuckery at the cost of what the book prices them at.
You can say that for literally any drone, VTOL, self driving car, augment etc in the entire rulebook.
It's 60 years in the future, and while there were a huge amount of setback events there is an entire megacorp specifically geared towards advanced weapon development, with handheld railguns being a viable man portable weapon. How is it realistic to assume that materials science and manufacturing through use of nanobot 3d printing hasn't reduced the cost of production for advanced materials at all?

>>53709198
>can fire 10 rounds per combat phase
Doesn't matter how many turns you have, when you can only fire 10 per phase.

>>53704736
>>53705955
I mean as a player character how do I get the other PCs to leave running for a bit for mercenary work. Your suggestions are good, but more 'stuff for the GM to hook a party with.