/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

Hey Faglord, where's the question?

Chris Perkins has said structurally the next adventure we're getting is like Curse of Strahd (in his interview on Encounter Roleplay).

He's also said there'll be a unique t-rex in the adventure. That the main villain will be unsympathetic but it's underlings will be multidimensional and multifaceted characters.

>>53567121
Sounds cool. Curse of Strahd was great and so are Tyrannosaurs.

>>53567060
>>53567037
>>53567037

Man, that's really, really lame. I guess I won't multiclass then.

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Why does WoTC insist on making the Kobolds uglier and uglier?
When will we get the waifus we deserve?

>>53567162
you deserve nothing

>paladin is the only class that gets elemental weapon
Why though?

How the fuck does the tiefling revenant character gen work? I'm still baffled by the wording in the UAs.

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>>53567161
unless you do it in increments of 4
>>53567206
bards can at level 10 since they get the ability to take any spell from any list

>>53567103
Honestly who cares?

>>53567238
Yeah, I know. But you can say that about any spell.
However, as far as spell lists are concerned. Why only paladins?
Seems like something to give to druids, nature clerics...

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>>53567216
Effectively, you get +2 Charisma and then choose the Revenant subrace.

The UA is That Old Black Magic.

>>53567238
I guess it just stings that there aren't really dead levels to make multiclassing enticing for fighters. For story reasons, I want to switch from fighter into paladin. If I switch now (which makes the most sense IC) I lose the attribute increase. If I switch next level, I lose Extra Attack. If I switch the next level I lose another attribute increase. Too many features is hardly anything to complain about, but it makes the decision agonizingly difficult (especially because level 1 paladin features are super-garbage for level 4 characters)

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can someone link a b&w version of the player's handbook? one isn't in the trove and I'm not looking for the transcript

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Maybe this has been long since dealt with in some manner, but I've been lost in Shadowrun for a couple years and am playing catchup on D&D 5E. Doing a bit of setting building here, and I keep wanting to make the clerics and druids represent theistic and animistic faith, respectively, something like the Buddhist/Shinto interaction in Japan, say. If you look at Shinto, or perhaps at folk animism in south and southeast Asia, though, you get spirit stuff going on in inhabited as well as natural locales. Would it be dumb to cook up a druid pathway focusing on this sort of civilized-world shamanism? Has this perhaps already been done?

Is it rude when the DM set up a mega dungeon and you ignore it because you feel it too difficult for your character in the beginning. Only to comeback later with an army to kill it master and claim it as your own.

>>53567397
I have always wanted a Druid type that focuses on mans relationship with nature
I don't have an answer for you but that sounds great.

>>53567397

Same guy, unrelated question. Why are there so few third party adventures out there for 5e? Is it a licensing issue? I grew up in the 3e era and we were swimming in premade shit, so it's jarring (and frustrating for a GM who works a 40 hour week, you know?)

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>>53567162
>implying their puppy noses aren't adorable

>>53567414
i would not consider it rude, though you shouldn't be surprised when half of your forces are dead. and the other half blames you for walking them into a bloodbath.

>>53567414
Nah man, at least not personally i don't think so.
That's the kind of shit i love as a GM, as long as its not all the time.

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So the campaign I'm in is way more focused on exploration and survival than anyone realized and we don't have many people who can deal with that well. Hell, I'm one of the better ones and I'm a warlock. After a few levels, grabbing tome and stealing ranger rituals I was thinking of multiclassing into either the scout fighter or rogue. I'm leaning more towards rogue because of expertise, cunning action and movement since Wild Cunning and Guiding Hand can do a lot of what natural explorer allows. Does anyone have any thoughts on the scout fighter vs rogue?

>>53567592
Just make sure you are not lost in the forest and understand one of the many language.

What is the best way to reskin the imp familiar to be a creature of the fey? Just a beefed up sprite or pixie or something?

>>53567592
What the fuck are those things in the image?

>>53567770
morons if they think that "bow" will work.

>>53567748
>Just a beefed up sprite or pixie or something?
>pixie got SWOLE

>>53567770
Roughly humanoid shaped chunks of xp

>>53567303
is there more for running a demonoligist/diabolist wizard or is that the warlocks game now?

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>>53567748
Why can't you just have a sprite/pixie/animal familiar?

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>>53567836
So it's a Fistie now?

>>53567206
I'm told it's an oblique ref to 4e, where a sidebar toyed with the idea paladin smites could do damage based on their god's nature. For example, if you worship Poseidon, you do cold damage. Elemental weapons takes this idea and simply makes it an option.

>>53567425
^2nd this
I love how they have dog noses and muscles.

So I'm a gigantic fag and trying to build a standalone "Saboteur" class which heavily relies on grenades and other explosives as it's primary source of damage.

Is a grenade that requires a ranged spell attack that deals 1d8 on a hit and then explodes hit or Miss for 2d6 in a 5 ft sphere too much?

Currently at level one you only have "slots" for 2 grenades and you can only craft them during a long rest.

Is that way too much damage for a level 1 spell? It's less than ice knife which is what I modeled it after

>>53567419
Second this.
An "urban druid" is something I always kinda liked about shadowrun shamans.

>>53567896
Eh. I guess.
That's kinda depressing they only gave that option to paladins though.
I like the idea of being able to change up damage type on a weapon, akin to what the nature cleric has. But I think nature cleric's channel divinity is such ass.

>>53567865
>>53567303
I always wanted to see a some one play a Dr. Orpheus style warlock. Some one who wasn't evil or edgy. Just a really smart and kind, if pretentious and over dramatic, demonologist who got his power through proper research.

>>53568211
No reason it needs to be a spell attack.
Make it a ranged attack roll.
Then it deals 1d10 bludgeoning on a hit.
Hit or miss it explodes and each creature within 5 feet of the point where it explodes must succeed a Dex saving throw or take 2d6 piercing.
60 ft.

This is just ice knife but without doing cold damage. It's fine. It's also a level 1 spell.

I've actually always wanted to play a demolition expert. Can easily refluff artificer in this way. Granted a lot of its features kinda don't fit the theme though.
Would like to see it as a rogue subclass.

Are there maps for A Scream in the Night? I've looked through the Mega Trove and tried to look it up through google unable to find it. Anyone know where they are if there are any?

>>53567324
If you're doing it for story reasons, hopefully your DM will be on board and not throw you in situations where your un-optimised character is a huge handicap. Ultimately I think the roleplaying is more important than the mechanical perfection, but I understand your frustration.

Would a Shifter be a good fit for a curse of Strahd game? My group isn't too serious so my plan was to go "well I'm not like THOSE werewolves" but is a Shifter different enough from a standard werewolf that it would be incongruous?

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I'm going to have my players venture out of an underground lake and have some pretty rough fights against a Sea Hag and her minions, followed by a RP heavy Masquerade Ball two days later in-game. Any suggestions? I already plan on having a Night Hag (way too strong for them atm) attend in shapshifting disguise that they'll probably ignore because of much more interested NPCs in there, but I'm trying to get a feel for how I wanna run an RP Ball. Hag fight is just standard combat stuff with neat trinkets and magic items, nothing too out there.

>>53568480
Yeah refluffing it as a rogue or artificer subclass would work (and has been done many times) but there are many other feats I wanted to add which would be too bloated for a subclass.

I forgot to mention the secondary damage does include a dex saving throw for half damage.

I don't want the class to be dex based. It's more based on intelligence and con with a feat at level 5 to instead use intelligence for attacks and damage rolls on weapons similar to shillelagh.

The secondary grenade damage does scale to 8d6 by level 18 for the base class. At that level you have 8 readily available "slots" which increases to 10 at lvl 20 for the base class.

>fighting a stone golem to get an orb from it
>sitting by the DM
>eventually see his paper for how much damage we've done
>over 230 damage
Fucking hell. This thing only has chips taken off of it.

>>53567421
This edition has kept away from third party, for better or worse depending on who you talk to, probably because Hasbro doesn't want to wheel and deal on percentage of sales. Also the problem you see with this party places that try to make stuff balance that shit for 3.5 or pf in mind and have no fucking clue what would work in 5e.

D&D used to be bundled in with MTG when WOTC turned their reports in now they are done separate but Hasbro expected D&D to be doing near MTG level sales. To anyone who knows what the fuck they're talking about that's retarded and a pipe dream, but a bunch of suits in an office see it's not what they want so they gutted the budget. They put stuff out every now and then to hold onto the licensing for an extra revenue they might be able to grab.

Tldr: They got no cash, and no one seems to realize 3.x shit doesn't work right out the gate in this edition.

>>53567421
>>53569191
The 5e SRD has been out for a full year, under the same license that 3.5e's SRD was under. It'll take time... and with WotC's focus on adventures, third parties would rather work on their own supplementary and custom setting material than actual adventures.

You can find a bunch of adventures on the DMs Guild though, that's mostly what it's there for.

>>53568731
So make them thrown weapons? And you can use either dex or str.

It just doesn't make sense that they're spell attacks. Not unless they're somehow guided by magic.

The core of the damage output comes from the blast explosion, the 1d10 is just whether or not you smash the person standing the space with it for an extra "thunk," right?

This means they'll still be int based if the saving throw is 8 + prof + int.

>>53569191
Just started playing a few months ago so forgive me.. but is it really too much work to just convert the stats of creatures in 3.5 modules to their analogues in 5e?

>>53567073
>UA talks about Mystic and Artificer as closest to getting official support
>Both are in bad need of tuning
>Say they are close to finished
I sincerely hope they mean that they've already done some tuning, I'd hate to see either reach legal in their current states for both reasons of being bullshit strong, and having features that flat out suck.

>>53567206
Stone Sorcerer, Hexblade, Forge Cleric and Bards can all get it as well.

>>53568422
I won't lie, Nature's the one domain where you'll likely not use up all CD's before resting because it's so situational.

On the bright side they can pick up Shillelagh to be pure Wisdom and have a weak at-will absorb elements.

>>53567865
Just play a Conjurer and use the demon summons? Cast a lot of Fire spells? Say you were taught by a fiend?

It's mostly a fluff thing. All Wizards can be refluffed into being a bit more demonic.

>>53569273
Not really, but you're mostly encouraged to find a stat block in the 5e MM because the DMG guide to making one is a fucking mess, also that is the vast difference in power levels of the two games. Also disregard the CR guide even the publishers say they don't use it because it's meant for bare bones games only, no feats, standard array, no multiclassing and a four man party of the same level with low access to magic items.

The problem is these companies make the things that would work in 3.5 or pf and say it's for 5e. Kobold Press is notorious for this, so no people don't want to bother buying shit they're going to have to fix anyway.

>>53569281
Don't worry WotC will disappoint us, either they'll nerf mystic into the ground, or leave it mostly as is and it'll be fucking strong as hell for the game range they think everyone plays.

Artificer they'll either throw it a small bone that doesn't fix the issues and call it good or make it broken as fuck.

If I have advantage on the same stat as my spell ability modifier do I get advantage on my spell attacks and checks made against my spell DC?

>>53569405
No not at all to my knowledge

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>>53569367
>Also disregard the CR guide even the publishers say they don't use it because it's meant for bare bones games only, no feats, standard array, no multiclassing and a four man party of the same level with low access to magic items.
And here I am dreading what to throw at my group when the ball gets rolling.

>>53569395
I expect as much, we're playing a game right now with an Artificer and they need a fair amount of home-brewing to make them even remotely comparable to anything decent. We had to stop a Mystic after a few sessions, they are simply way too good in their current form.

Slightly ironic really, we thought the Hexblade would be problematic, turns out that UA is pretty well balanced(unless you go EB turret)

>>53569395
I honestly would rather they make Artificer strong enough to have people screaming it's broken and them nerf the fuck outta the Mystic.

Mystic's seriously some D&Dwiki level shit, it has good ideas but the execution on it's just so fucking bad. Should've at least been 2 classes.

I rolled an EK for the campaign I just died in. My DM let me get some magic items to catch me up, and here's what he let me "buy" with points I rolled for.

Shield +3
Scale mail +1
Ring of Protection.

So my AC right now is 23, meaning if I cast shield I have 28 AC.

Did he fuck up? Should I have him fix this? It seems hilariously broken.

>>53569405
What the fuck's giving you ADV on ALL rolls made with your spellcasting stat?

>>53569448
Do you want to eventually ruin the game for everyone else playing with you because you made an OP tank? Or do you want to be a reasonable person.

>>53569448
Eh, it's not too bad. EK is a really good tank and level 7-11 it has good damage. Rest of the time you'll be the lowest damage dealing Fighter on average. So it kinda evens out.

You can still be hit with Saves, Shoves, Grapples and etc. Plus your AC will never really get better.

>>53569426
It takes practice, the way I handled it when I started is there are "waves". If the situation allows for reinforcements to show up they most likely will if the party absolutely face rapes the enemies, not due to bad rolls on the enemies part.

Always be flexible and realize that PCs are alot more durable this edition, the first couple levels are shaky and can go either way but with time you'll get it down.

For boss fights either never leave them alone or give them legendary actions and resistances. The action economy in this edition is King and a single bad will loose to a party everytime because of it unless the party just botches all their rolls. Sometimes a big bad having both isn't bad but play it safe is my policy.

Also if an encounter is just too much on accident don't be afraid to fudge the numbers in the party's favor. By that I mean the party isn't just having bad luck it's you accidentally made an encounter way too much.

>>53569468
We're lvl 9, if that matters. The DM is pretty heavy handed when it comes to magic items for us to get, and his puzzles are very, very enigmatic. I'm certain I'm going to die from some bullshit like my 3 previous characters did.

I just feel like if I'm running around with 23 AC I'm just not going to feel any pain. Sure I won't be doing a ton of damage, but at the same time, that seems like a really big mistake on his part to let me use a point per level + (had to roll 2 d6) on a shield, yet have RoP cost 4.

>>53569465
Shifter (Wildhunt) gives you advantage on all Wisdom checks and saving throws while shifted.

I'm theorycrafting it with the spell Ensnaring Strike. The trapped creature needs to make a strength check against your spell save DC (Wisdom).

Although I guess it wouldn't matter anyway since to benefit I would need to impose disadvantage on its strength rolls.

>>53569434
My main issue with mystics is they are really good at everything. You can literally build them to do almost anything and if you do it right will be better than most of the party till ~10, which is where even WotC says most games end around.

>>53569441
I'm hoping they threw all them out there to try and see which ones work and which ones don't then they'll just trim some and touch up the workable ones.

>>53569367
Is this why I keep running into games where our party consistently faces enemies who deal an average 30 damage per attack at level 3? Because the DM is trying to compensate between editions?

For example last session we had a TPK after some enemies attacked us on sight and we eventually drove off their leader mid combat.

The leader then returned with reinforcements after we had finished fighting off his remaining goons and basically starting 1 shotting our party.

After the fact we were told we weren't expected to have tried to fight him in the first place. Am I tarded or is this just bad DMing?

>>53569518
No it still wouldn't matter, advantage on checks and saves doesn't mean advantage on attacks because it happens to be the same stat.

>>53569560
>Average 30 damage per attack at level 3

Jesus Christ what kind of DM does that? I get consequences but throwing things that practically one shot party members with no real chance of doing anything is just bad. I guess you could run but still that seems excessive to me.

>>53567748
I went with making it a satyr-like creature.

>>53569257
Yeah basically you roll 8 + proficiency + int modifier for the ranged spell attack, if you "hit" it simply means you landed the grenade in close proximity to them, so they take extra damage. If not.. your aim was a little off.. the grenade still explodes and they take damage, less if they Dodge fast enough (via the dex save) but they still take some damage cause it's an explosion.

I think it makes sense without having to implement dex based thrown weapon attacks. Dex just seems to be overused in general.

>>53569560
>some enemies attacked us on sight
>we weren't expected to have tried to fight him

Kinda shit DMing. He should've given some sign that you should have run away or something. Made it very obvious. Having enemies attack the party and expecting the party to just turn tail as a first response is a poor expectation.

>30 damage per attack
The fuck.
Enemies are usually balanced in one of two ways.
They either deal a ton of damage, and have low health pools, AKA glass canons (these can be good for making the party feel threatened at first).
Or they have pretty large health pools with several attacks that don't do much damage on a hit.
And of course, if we're talking bosses they get legendary resistances/actions to actually feel like bosses.

>>53569604
Ok so I'm not alone.. that 30+ average damage was just the secondary posion effect if u failed a con save if that makes a difference

>>53569629
>I think it makes sense without having to implement dex based thrown weapon attacks. Dex just seems to be overused in general.
They could also use their strength.

I'm wondering though, you don't expect them to only use grenades for fighting right?
They will likely invest in dex or str anyway to use with some other weapon.

>>53569560
Bad dm'ing. Unless you blatantly fucked up and shit in a kings face or something equally retarded you should never be slapped up side the face with impossible odds.

>>53569671
Was he using fucking assassins against you or something? Cause that shit alone is CR 7 iirc, while CR isn't good for budgeting at level encounters it sure as shit will fuck up things far below it's level unless the players are damn good and built to break shit.

>>53567135
>>53567121
Dinosaurs are flipping rad, I can't wait!

>It's another "the DM forgot to give his super marysue OC ranged attacks so we can kite it with one person" episode

Are the dmsguild Artificer and Mystic different from the initial UA releases?

>>53569733
Not yet, no.

>>53569671
>>53569702
Either way I digress like >>53569701 said that's just bad DMing. Unless the DM explained before the game "hey encounters and enemies are set from the beginning so if people try really hard to warn you away from a place there might be shit there you have no chance against."

>>53569674
Nah I have it setup so grenades are quite limited. At lvl 5 you may use int for your attack and damage rolls but only 1 subclass is proficient in martial weapons.

I suppose I could make the class more strength oriented, but I don't want it to suffer from multiple ability dependencies.

One of the main feats of the class is the ability to impose disadvantage on creatures every encounter (1 disadvantage per 1 encounter) there are other limited abilities to do a good chunk of damage and blow out doors, floors, and walls - but raw at will damage isn't exactly the point

>>53569764
What I'm saying is that it doesn't need to be str or dex dependant. They can make a choice between which they want to use (likely based on their weapon of choice, or if they want to be fast, etc..) between str or dex.
I'm just saying it doesn't really make any since that you make it into a ranged spell attack.
Again, because the explosion happens on a hit or miss, the 1d10 is very inconsequential for the most part.
Making it a spell attack seems inconsistent with design. That's all I'm saying. Now, if these are some special magical grenades that "lock on" to a point or something, that's different. But if they're purely mechanical. I think a toss should reflect that. Just my opinion.

>>53569741
Nah.. basically here's what happened:
Questgiver:
>>"Clear out my warehouse.. don't use fire spells cause it's a firetrap"
>>Attacked on sight by wererats
>>Chase off leader through a back tunnel
>>Take 2 rats hostage and bind them
Next session, level to 4, but does not take effect until next long rest
>>Questgiver comes back
>>Questgiver interrogates rats
>>Leader walks through front door with backup
>>Cleric initiates combat in surprise round
>>Bound rat breaks free and 1 shots questgiver
>>Leader procedes to 1 shot half the party
>>TPK
>> "I thought you guys would talk it out"

???

>>53569804
Nah they aren't magical.. it's just difficult for me to interpret the initial damage is all.

Using the Dex or strength roll seems to say to me that if you "hit" the attack they take the initial damage due to the force of a grenade physically hitting them.. which just seems stupid.

I interpret landing a spell attack based on intelligence to mean that you are smart enough to create a more potent grenade therefore dealing more damage.

>>53569904
If you don't want to have any kind of "thunk" of the grenade hitting someone, then remove it entirely.

Rather, only include the dex save based on intelligence then.
>half damage on success

That's perfectly reasonable.

>>53569842
Fucking classic That DM level shit right here.

Anon, does your party smite evil?

I sure hope they do...

I'm currently creating a setting, a western theme with a litttle bit of mad max in there and I'm currently working on factions to populate the continent. The list I have is:

>Human/Dwarf Alliance: The new settlers, ~5-6 decent sized settlement, basically the main "civilization" in the new frontier
>Elves: Basically native Americans, tribal nomads, though mostly friendly with the new civilizations, (aside from Drow) the majority keep distance. There are exceptions, like some elves working in towns as hunters, crafters or diplomats.
>Three different bandit factions fighting for control of the larger desert area. One with a pirate theme, one with a full Western bandit theme and one I haven't fully thought of a theme for.
>Gnolls: More primitive bandit types, brutal with cruder technology. One major settlement, where other races can go as long as they are careful not to anger anyone. Gnolls aren't entirely stupid, bloodthirsty beasts and are somewhat intelligent, though still not particularly friendly. Can speak broken common.
>Lizardmen: Swamp cannibals. 99% hostile, unless you can convince them you're worth more alive. Don't speak common tho
>Kobolds: Split into two rival factions, metallic 'bolds in the desert, following a Brass dragon, and chromatics in the swamp following a Black dragon. Metallic bolds have been gifted metal work from their leader, and tend to wear bright scale mail armour and spears, with a full military tradition type thing going. The chromatics are more tribal, using poisons, weapons of bone and guerilla tactics.
>Yuan-Ti: Mayan civ, somewhere in the jungle.
>Tabaxi: Desert gypsies/merchants, basically Khajit ripoffs, not a huge amount of.
>Another group of humans in the northeastern grasslands, the Kingsman, who shun the new technology (guns, vehicles etc) and live a "primitive" existence in their castle. Plate armour, swords, archers and wizards. Basically a normal classic fantasy faction.

Is this too many? Should I add anything/change shit?

So. Last session for a month or so. Was also the first session of a new campaign (players insisted). Went...interestingly. Party is now trapped in a city lost in between Time and Not!Time and surrounded by an army of golems that think they are a slave rebellion.

What do?

>>53570193
Every setting needs halfings.

>>53570293
Riding velociraptors, or equivalent.

>>53570293
Honestly, I've never liked halflings or gnomes, usually if someone wants to play them I have them as either half human, half dwarf or half dwarf half elf.

Speaking of not included races, goblins and orcs are either parts of bandit groups or in lower class parts of the cities.

>>53570193
Gnomish scavengers interspersed between the 3 bandit factions. Master blaster types.

>>53568435
That is a wizard.

>>53570346
I actually like to replace Halflings with Goblins.

>>53569395
>WotC will disappoint us, either they'll nerf mystic into the ground, or leave it mostly as is and it'll be fucking strong as hell for the game range they think everyone plays.
Only the second scenario is disappointing.

The first is good. What's the problem exactly? Are you just some power gaming faggot who wants all the utility and jack-of-all-trades, master of all?

Let them be super versatile and able to fill in every role, but to a poor extend. They should be somewhat able to do roguish things, but be shit at it compared to a rogue, melee combat like a fighter, but be shit in comparison, and so on.

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>>53570310
Velociraptors are fucking small.

>>53570445
That's another thing, nobody has actually wanted to play a halfling or gnome in my campaigns so far. for example, >>53570359
I already kind of had goblins in that sort of role.

>>53570447
They already are a more versatile rogue, but since they lack expertise they don't come close to surpassing them. While they definitely need to change specific disciplines, the general way it works doesn't need nerfed at all, unless they want to strengthen specific niches in the process.

Nomadic Mind is horribly designed, but it's also the single worst discipline, outside of its batshit focus.

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>>53569395
Nerfing mystic to the ground would literally be the best possible outcome aside from removing the class completely. I was so fucking dissapointed that it recieved enough positive feedback to get continued development. Ever the community is retarded, or Mystic is one of the developer's "pet" classes and they're shoving it through anyway.

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>>53570346
>>53570359
Reminder to never trust gnomes.

>>53569434
Honestly Hexblade seems underwhelming. I haven't tried it in an actual campaign yet but judging from the abilities it seems like Fighter 1/Blade Warlock X performs at about the same level.

Now if the Hexblade could add his Cha modifier to two-handed weapons, that'd be a different matter since you could go for GWM. It's weird that they even add an invocation for a 2H weapon (Curse Bringer) but fail to make it compatible with Hex Warrior.

It's obviously better than straight-up Bladelock though.

>>53569448
Shield costs a spell slot though, and those only regenerate per long rest. Assuming 2-3 encounters per long rest that means you've got like 1-2 turns of avoiding damage per combat, IF you're only using your spell slots for Shield.

Besides, your damage will be lower than that of a Battlemaster or a Champion so it evens out.

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how do you guys make humanoid boss characters? the monster manual has a few like the archmage but it's limited in different humanoid bosses. i'd hate to make a boss like i would a player character because it's so damn time consuming. i need a rogue-ish boss by tomorrow

Why is the ranger so fucking bland, /5eg/?

Everything they do can be done better by others.

>>53570649
they remade the ranger in unearthed arcana

>>53570634
All you need is their HP, saves, and a few special abilities. Just like any other monster stat block.

>>53570649
Ranger has never known what the fuck it's supposed to be. It wants to be super archery fighterman, but it also wants to be roguey guerilla fighter with edgelord dual weapons, but it also wants to be psuedo-druid nature man, but it also wants to the guy with animals, but it also wants to be the guy who's really good at killing one specific thing, but also throws a temper tantrum about being underpowered if fighting anything else.

Ranger was a mistake, so were Bards and Mystic. Classes that try to do everything don't belong in a team-based game.

>>53570681
Would they work better if they were like a "nature rogue" archetype? They are both classes geared towards exploration rather than combat after all.

>>53570681
Nah, bards are at least fun with their skillmonkey shit.

Rangers are simply dull. They always kinda were, but in 3e they at least had something going for them, being in between fighter and rougue.

Now though? If I want a raguey guerilla fighter I go with assassin or even scout rogue. If I want to be super archery fighterman, I go with fighter. If I want druid nature man then I do druid. In fact, isn't there like a more fighter-ish druid subclass in one of the UAs?

>>53570554
Its very powerful, the ability to crit on 19's, smite for 10d8 and reduce movement, along with a suite of decent abilities like the near overpowered 50% miss chance on your hex'd target leads to an incredibly effective gish. If they could CHA-mod with the 2-hander I'd call it OP.

They are basically better paladins in terms of smiting.

>>53570681
>Ranger was a mistake, so were Bards
>Bards
>a mistake
Go fuck yourself.

I dont even play bards, but I God damn love to have one in the party. They can literally do all the shit the rest of us can't, and are unsurpassed as buffers and debuffers.

Literally the best team character you can possibly have, and you think they don't belong in a team based game?

>>53570719
In my personal opinion, yes. The animal companion stuff, favored enemy stuff, and all the magic stuff should be dropped completely. Make them a martial class with good skills, just more geared towards exploration and survival rather than thievery stuff like rogues are.

>>53570634
takes literally 15 minutes to throw together a rougey boss

you don't have to create it all the way like a normal PC

>>53570761
Bards shouldn't have pulled from Ranger/Paladin spell list, since some of their spells aren't balanced in accordance with their spell level.

>>53570761
>Unsurpassed buffers and debuffers
>"I have no idea what wizards or clerics are, and playing one or two games makes me an expert so I'm going to state my uniformed opinion as fact."

OK

>>53570780
Bards were supposed to be the "half arcane" class, like Paladins are the "half divine" and Rangers are the "half primal".

But they got full casting for some reason, and I don't know why.

>>53570761
Everything bards do is also done by other classes. Allowing them to perform the roles of multiple classes only devalues the classes they're stealing from, and creates a character who's thematic focus is "LOL I DO EVERYTHING! WHY? BECAUSE I CAN PLAY MUSIC, LEL!"

>>53567263
Because paladins are the magic swordsman class.

>>53570810
But anon, Warlocks are the arcane half casters.

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>>53570761
>>53570810
Bards should have been closer to Red Mages from Final Fantasy. Instead we got a full-caster who just lifts stuff from every spell list in the game and doesn't really have an identity of it's own, mechanically or narratively, aside from tying music to the whole thing as some kind of weak justification. As Bards stand right now, they're just wizards with more spell-access who also have a ton of skill proficiencies.

>>53570846
Warlocks have an entirely different mechanic (and still technically get access to 6-9 spells).

>>53570846
Warlocks are still technical full casters with mystic arcanum. They just got the short end of the stick this edition of being the 1-2 point wonder of goodies and a retarded mentality that because short-rest=refresh=lol2slots

>>53570893
What is the inherent difference between a level "5" spell that is stronger than other level 5 spells, and a level 6-9 spell?

>>53570752
The smites cost spell slots, though, no? 10d8 is great but at low levels you're extremely limited to how often you can use this since you've only got 2 spell slots until pretty late.

It doesn't feel like it's that much more useful than, say, Armor of Agathys which at level 5 deals 15 damage per hit (which can be very potent if you're combining it with something like Blade Ward).

On the other hand it is true that a level 5 Hexblade also gets 6d8 x 2 extra damage per short rest which is a lot...But a Strength Bladelock using a Greatsword gets +10 damage on each attack without expending spell slots. But it's also true that nothing's preventing you from going Strength Hexblade. But that requires you to have high Str, good Cha, good Con and 14 Dex (for your medium armor).

I dunno. I guess it's a bit of a toss-up for me. But the hexblade's flavor does feel a bit weird.

>>53570909
Get the DMG and read the "tiers of play" section.

Spells are given levels specifically based on their potential to manipulate the world and the course of a story. Level 5 spells aren't necessarily "weaker" than level 6+ spells in terms of sheer power, but they are more limited in the degree in which they can change the rules of the game, so to speak.

>>53570933
Nigga, i understand all that, my point is that existing exclusive spells are stronger than their spell level indicates, and that there is no inherent difference, outside of bard secrets, in a paladin with access to higher level spells, and having spells that act above their suggested power via spell level.

>>53570911
If you are taking the proper amounts of rests you should the 2 slot meme isn't a problem at all. If you crit(which is likely) you can dump 20d10 magical slashing damage up somethings asshole, that burst is relevant all the way up until 20 and is way more effective than a measly AoA that will get swiped off you with one attack most of the time.

The easiest way to address their shortcomings is a one dip in fighter, gives you pure gravy in a fighting style, heavy armor prof, and a con save, and second wind.

STR Hexblade gets 2d6+STR+CHAx2 per round with the option of blowing somethings face off for additional smite damage.

Hexblades are nothing to scoff at.

>>53570947
>If you are taking the proper amounts of rests you should the 2 slot meme isn't a problem at all.

The suggested amount of rests is 1 per 2 combat. That leaves you with 1 slot / combat until, what, level 11?

How the fuck is this not a problem?

>>53570962
You are the magical equivalent of a fighter. You get "extra attack" and it scales with your primary stat. Your non-cantrip spells are your extra features, versatility slots that can be used to fuel a trump card in a pinch.

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>>53570947
>>53570962
Reminder that originally short-rests were going to be 5 minutes without combat, but 3.5aboos whined and complained that it was too similar to glorious 4e's encounter-power game design.

>>53570962
Because you have strong melee damage to back it up until you get your slots back. How is this hard to understand? Not like your "fighter" chassis just up and disappears if you don't have slots. You'd still be doing 2d6+STRx2 per round with added options for cantrips like GFB or BB.

>>53570971
Oh yeah, having Hex up every fight is a "trump card" not something that's actually expected. Good to know.

>>53570783
>wizards or clerics
>even half as good as Bards at buffing and debuffing
Ok.
>>53570813
So Paladins shouldn't exist because Clerics and fighters do, Rangers shouldn't exist, Barbarians shouldn't exist, warlocks shouldn't exist.. .

Literally 80% of the classes has a ton of overlap. That is a terrible reason to want a class removed or changed.

>>53570863
Wizards have a better core spell list.

Bards functions as the full caster middle point between arcane and divine casters, and that is good, with far less offensive options in their spell list. They also serve as the charisma based caster compared to the Int of the wizard and wis of the cleric.

Compared to the sorcerer, they are the utility to the raw power the Sorcerer (should) have. The fact that sorcerers are terribly executed is not a point for this discussion.
Options are good to make a varied amount of character options.

>>53570986
Hex is the damage equivalent of battlemaster maneuvers. You are "expected" to deal that extra damage as needed, just like a fighter.

>>53570978
Short rests are fine as it is. Our group usually takes one or two before every long rest, though our sorcerer keeps blowing all spellslots in the first encounter.

>>53570987
>Wizards have a better spell list
Bards literally can steal spells from EVERY SPELL LIST.

If you have no idea what you're talking about, just say so instead of trying to save face on a fucking anonymous image board.

>>53570987
>Literally 80% of the classes has a ton of overlap
Most classes have an overlap with one or two things. Bards overlap with fucking everything

>>53567324
>there isn't dead levels
>that's really lame!

>>53570719
>>53570767
Better yet, make them a fighter subclass geared towards exploration. Drop the druid stuff and instead make a more fight oriented druid sublass for those who want it (like a druid spellsinger or hexblade or something along those lines).

Make the fighter-ranger excel is exploring, give it the option of switching between archery and melee and maybe even some favored enemy stuff. Maybe just rework the monster hunter and scout fighter subclasses to one.

>>53567324
>there aren't really dead levels
And somehow it's a bad thing?

>>53569140
Golems aren't supposed to have that much HP

Although players aren't SUPPOSED TO CHEAT EITHER

So we went from

>If you are taking the proper amounts of rests you should the 2 slot meme isn't a problem at all.

through

>Because you have strong melee damage to back it up until you get your slots back.

to

>Hex is the damage equivalent of battlemaster maneuvers.

So actually 2 slots is not just a meme, but it's alright, because you are a shitty fighter anyway.

Warlocks are bad, but it's okay, because the only people who play warlocks are edgelords, and they deserve to suffer.

>>53571095
You are a better fighter though all the way up until they get their meme-attack. The addition of a CHA mod to your attacks is huge, and baleful hex allows you to crit on 19's. You get their feature for being a hexblade.

>>53571095
2 slots isn't a problem BECAUSE of those factors.

The warlock has issues, but its mostly tied to how fucking awful the invocation system is. A handful of mandatory choices, with some of the only 5e trap options sprinkled in.

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Hey guys, I'm playing around with the idea of an elven archer. As an elf, with what build could I do the most damage with a single arrow... without assassin or warlock?

>>53571120
Do other rogue subclasses count?
If not, perhaps Arcane Archer?

>>53571120
Assassin Rogue.

If you use UA, get that elven accuracy thing

>>53571120
You want a fighter - pretty much every archetype works for you. Arcane archer, sharpshooter, champion, battlemaster are all fine archers, but your real strength will come from fighter's shitload of feats - you want Sharpshooter and Elven Accuracy.

>>53571107
Hexblade is a UA fix.

Fighters are also better fighters on account of having better armor and action surge.

>>53571112
2 slots IS a problem because it's not 2 slots as much as "you can hex". The rest of the spell list is basically so niche, it may as well not exist.

>>53571151
>fighter's shitload of feats

Am I in /3eg/?

>>53571160
The entire fucking conversation is about hexblade numbnuts, not bladelock. Action surge competes but doesn't overtake the hexblades features, you are still a better fighter in the long run with smites and other casting options. Especially when you hit the mystic arcana.

Currently preparing to play a lore bard, as a first time being a full caster, what are some mandatory/good spells to pick early? Playing a con-man type, ex-potion (snake oil) salesman who has lost his license, and now lives in his empty cart with nothing to move it. The spell list I have (level 4, so 7 spells +3 cantrips)

Vicious Mockery
Mage hand
Prestigiditation

Healing Word
Cure Wounds
Charm Person
Dissonant Whispers

Hold Person
Invisibility
Enthrall

Am I missing anything important for level 1-2 spells? Was considering picking up either fear or hypnotic pattern when I hit level 5.

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>>53571120
>most damage with a single arrow
Ranger or bard

>Warlocks
>Underpowered
>When they can shove enemies with every hit
>When they can get wizard's ritual casting utility
>When,with hex their damage is pretty decent (Still not like a ranged fighter's but that's okay)

Warlocks aren't great but they aren't terrible. They're just one of the weaker casters. Still less of a disappointment than sorcerer.


If you use hexblade, it's probably the most powerful warlock archetype whether EBing or in melee, so I'd call it an acceptable class at that point.

>>53571120
Paladin. Walk up and stab someone with the arrow and smite.

>>53571171
Unlike 3e, feats are not actually a meme this time around.

>>53571202
Cure wounds is a meme spell, don't pick it. Healing word is more than enough.

>>53571245
What would be good to replace it? Hideous Laughter?

>>53571202
Heat Metal is nuts and will fuck up anything with armor

>>53571270
Yes. Tasha's hideous laughter is absurdly good.

>>53571287
Should have said this in first post, but I'm not looking for any damage spells other than vicous mockery, the character is a fuckin coward and would much rather avoid combat/use his magic to disable opponents instead of trying to defeat them himself.

>>53571236
yes, but unlike 3e, fighters don't get more feats than other classes

>>53571337
They get more ASI which means more feats.

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>>53571337
Nigger, you what?

>>53571349
>>53571352
I'm dumb as fuck, carry on.

DM's running a campaign where magic is against the law, unless you get outside the borders to outer areas. Would it be feasible to use sleight of hand to hide Verbal and Somatic components of a spell under other gestures/doing something else to distract? I want to play a bard but I'm mildly worried that magic might be more of a liability. Like for example Enthrall, would it be possible to use that to distract a crowd without them knowing I cast anything? What about Charm person? (i know they know once it wears off, but you get my point.)

>>53571245
Unless you play in a game where the DM realized death saves are a shit system.

>>53571442
arcane trickster has something along those lines iirc

>>53571463
Cures would still be bad in those games; they take an action and only work in melee.

>>53571480
You're not wrong, but

The fix I've done as part of removing death saves is to buff the spells that get you out of death saves. I did a 'if you heal someone with cure wounds / healing word / mass healing word they get temporary HP for a round equal to healing'

I haven't really had any healers to test that yet but it seems like it should work as an emergency 'don't die' thing whereas prayer of healing is a better out of combat healing.

>>53571002
Thats not the same as overlapping with them, what the fuck are you talking about.

>>53571028
No they don't. They are like a vastly less versatile Mystic that won't actually be better than any other class in their specialty.

Bards are great casters, but Clerics and Wizards are better.

Bards can attempt to do a fighter build, but a fighter will be vastly better.

They can make a ranger kind of character which is worse than a ranger.

They can be a combination of them, and that is their strength.

Wizards can be the best ranged damage dealers, while also being the most battlefield controllers, that can also do reasonably well in close combat with Bladesinger, and do anything a Rogue does, but with more reliable magic.

A Warlock can steal rituals from any class, or smite like a Paladin, even with a ranged weapon. That potentially makes them act like a Ranger/Paladin combo with a better caster scaling.

Druids are also full divine casters that can tank better than barbarians with wildshape, do almost whatever they want in terms of sneaking, outclassing the Rogue by miles, fight in melee extremely well because of a wisdom scaling weapon, and still be a potent healer and supporter, simultaneously doing what Barbarians, Rogues, Clerics and Paladins do.

If you dont see the overlap, you are an idiot. And if you actually think Bards do EVERYTHING then you have never actually played a game, and just assumes something based on your retarded theorycrafting.

>>53570468
>utility and jack-of-all-trades, master of all? Let them be super versatile and able to fill in every role, but to a poor extend. They should be somewhat able
It doesn't help that the alot of people screaming to Nerf the mystic into the ground are autists that hate the idea of psionics despite it being in dnd since 2nd ed.

>>53571442
Somewhere in the book it says it requires forceful gesticulation and making sounds with specific pitches and tones, so I might let you roll, but with disadvantage and/or against a high DC.
And still, it only takes one dirty peasant to scream BLOODY HELL THAT'S A WIZERD for the whole crowd to pick up what's going on.

>>53571550
Just because an idea has been around for a long time doesn't mean it's a good one.

>"It's been around since 2 edition!"
Boils down to a nostalgia-faggotry argument that's just as autistic as the people crying for a nerf. Actually, it's more of one, at least the people crying for a nerf have arguments besides "HURRDURR IT WORKED A DECADE AGO!"

>>53570483
I like Psions fuck you

>>53571550
I have no problem with the concept.

It was just made to look like dandwiki tier shit. Literally makes me think of a retarded 14 year old, who is homebrewing his special snowflake class that does everything the bestest ever, becauae fuck you I am the main character REEEEEEE

>>53571582
I play a mystic it is far from op it just needs some tweaks and its good to go.

>>53571583
Liking a class doesn't mean it's healthy for game balance. I like playing shooters where I have the rocket launcher and my opponent only has a pistol. That doesn't mean it's a good or balanced game.

The "I like X so X is good" argument is one of the weakest arguments you can make for any situation ever, once you identify the complete lack of substance in such an argument.

>>53571583
You've had your fun with a shitty UA then.

You would still be able to play it. If it is suddenly a problem because "I AM NOT THE STRONFEST WTF", then you need to neck yourself you faggot.

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>>53571593
It needs alot more than some "tweaks".

Just off the top of my head:

1. Simplicity. Psionics adds an entirely new, parallel set of magic to the system that all of 5e has used to date. Any players or DM that wants to use psionics has to learn an entirely new set of "spells", "casting" rules, and interactions with existing rules.

2. The new interactions conflict with (nerf) the existing balance/usefulness of several parts of the game including spells (Counterspell), at least one feat (Mage Slayer), and every rule or feature that triggers or interacts with "spells" (since Psionics is explicitly not spellcasting). This steps on the toes of those races, abilities, classes, and feats that interact with magic or the existing spellcasting system.

3. Expanding on 2, lack of interactivity. 5e combat (and even social encounters to a degree) are inherently about altering your behavior as a reaction to the the environment, the NPCs, and your party. Before Psionics, when a magic user tried to alter a social or combat situation with magic, everybody present had a chance to see it and could act accordingly. The only exception to this rule was a sorcerer investing build resources and class resource to Subtly cast a spell (and even in that case they still have to be touching a focus). Psionics gets to completely bypass this pillar of the game for free- no investment required. Every discipline or talent a Mystic uses gives no indication it is about to occur, no way to prevent it from being "cast", and little indication of who or what caused it. This near-immunity moves the game away from interactivity to a space where Mystics simply get to do magic while others must always try to cast.

>>53571593
>Mystics are totally balanced, they are meant to be able to anything better than literally everyone else!

>>53571561
It does mention "the chanting of mystic words" and "a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures". Couldn't chanting be done under breath, or even as a bard be weaved into words as it were, and an intricate set of gestures be disguised under other, flashier gestures (i guess this could also be a performance roll idk). Like, for enthrall, it has a verbal and a somatic component, but the verbal component is literally the "distracting string of words", and the gestures could kind of be hidden underneath other movements, described as a part of the casting.

I guess this is kind of based on DM and I should ask him instead, just figured I'd ask 5eg first.

>>53571608
Our attempt at using a psionic resulted in us altering point 2 and 3 to literally be "like usual magic."

Detect with arcana, counterspell works, castings are always visible and audible like spells,and anything that works against spells (mage slayer and anti magic some for example) also works on psionic powers.

Because fuck your special snowflake bullshit.

It still wasn't balanced, and despite much whining about not breaking 80% of the established caster rules, the psionic still outperformed the entire party in almost all situations.

>>53571645
>I had to make a homebrew to fix a thing so that thing is totally balanced and OK!
Almost as weak of an argument as "I had fun with X, so X is balanced and healthy."

>It still wasn't balanced.
I'm glad you're able to see this.

>>53571561
>And still, it only takes one dirty peasant to scream BLOODY HELL THAT'S A WIZERD for the whole crowd to pick up what's going on.
This has always bothered me.

As a GM I have never had much success with crowd reactions. If I have to call for an opposed roll against a crowd, 20 people means there is an extremely high probability that at least one will roll high enough to spot you, unless you are a Rogue with expertise and "I can't roll below 10" on their check.

If you use passive perception, it is even worse. Under normal stealth circumstances, even a crowd of a 1000 people have no chance of sporting the same rogue. He cant roll low enough to ever be spotted by common people, who Will never have 20+ in passive perception. In fact, most stealth oriented dex classes are almost by default impossible to spot for the average commoner.

If you go by "natural 20 is always a succes", you get the issue of having large groups ALWAYS notice you.

Stealth is the example, but this applies to any roll. I can't figure iut how to do this properly. Give crowds a bonus or something?

>>53571668
??

I am talking AGAINST psionics.

I fucking hate the class and hoped it would be removed entirely. Now I just hope it gets gutted.

Literally never even hinted at Psionics being remotely balanced.

>>53570986
That said, Hex is another spell slot, so if you choose to Hex you can only smite once more.

>>53571725
Baleful hex is a long rest feature not to be confused with Hex the first level spell.

>>53571725
>I can do +1d6 on all of my attacks or 4d6 once!
>what riveting gameplay!

>>53567103
The question is does anyone have a thousand tiny deaths pdf they want to share?

>>53571742
It's not really about being riveting or not. If varied was the norm the Champion Fighter wouldn't exist. Playing a typical melee class also just accounts to choosing a method that deals the most damage (usually GWM or shield shove + advantage attack or something) and spamming that every time.

>>53571737
I assumed that's what the other guy meant though. Maybe I misunderstood.

After watching some critical role today I'm curious how many of your characters deal with mental issues? What are some heavy flaws some of them have or have developed in their lives?

>>53571612
They can do most things, and do them slightly better than not being trained in it at all. Nomadic Minds Focus is the biggest offender, but the rest of Mind is so ass you lose nothing by banning it.

>>53570863
Looking at the spell selection of my party's Wizard, he could have played a Bard and had more skills, more proficiencies, more HP, and Bardic Shit without losing out on anything he's cast so far.

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So if you haven't heard the news, WoTC """adjusted""" Mystic and Artificer, then put them on DM's guild to crowdsource archetypes.
I'm gonna ask a question here - does anyone see any actual adjustments? Because Artificer is as bad as it was.

>>53571929
No adjustments, and they've said they are happy with where they are so enjoy one incredibly gimped class, and one horrifically overpowered one.

>>53571696
Roll for the whole crowd as one entity, maybe with advantage, and describe a rogue's failure as just one person noticing him and alarming the crowd.

>>53571897
My current character is a mystic that hears voices, it really messed with some of the other characters early on since some of it was real, some was delusional.

I do play it as getting mostly good advice too, it helps me play high int, but not well schooled.

>>53571929
Did they make any changes at all?

>>53572001
No, they just promised we'll get a new version of Mystic sometime in the future.

Because you know, after 4 failed attempts already, they fucking refuse to drop the idea even though it's obviously garbage. Mystics were made for Dark Sun, a setting in which normal magic is rare to non-existent in the hands of the players, so it works there. It should have never been brought out of Dark Sun and forced into the universal list of classes.

>>53571926
What kind of shitty wizard is that?

What the fuck is he doing?

>>53572041
Literally everything a good wizard should be doing, focusing on control, buff, and debuff spells. You didn't think playing a wizard was about doing damage, did you?

>>53571929
Nice, so it will remain permabanned for being a bullshit class.

Good to know, then I'll never have to deal with it.

>>53571608
>Simplicity
This is absolutely no different than if Druids had not been in 5E at the start and were added last month.
>oh my god they have new spells, I'll have to learn all this shit
It will be true every single fucking time they add more spells to the game. This isn't a legitimate complaint, it's a thinly-veiled whinge.

Psionic casting rules are easier than spellcasting rules anyway.
No verbal, somatic, or material components. No foci. No need for carrying additional items or special exceptions for martial classes that need to cast with shield and sword in-hand, no worrying about juggling your equipment.
No fucking spell slots. You have a pool of points and subtract from them, that's it. You don't have to memorize how many slots you have per spell level at each character level. All you've got to know is what your maximum PP-per-cast rate is (and that changes infrequently) so you know which powers within a discipline you have access to.
No faffing around with a different learnable/known/memorized system and spell lists for each class. Wizards don't prep spells the same way Clerics or Druids do, and any rhyme or reason behind this ("Arcane is different from Nature/Divine") falls apart because Rangers are Nature casters following the Arcane system. Pick X disciplines and go.

Arguing that Mystics are too complex is like whining that Champion Fighter is too hard and involves too many dice rolls compared to Battlemaster or EK "because crits".

>>53572041
There's not really a whole lot necessary to the role of utility Wizard (the thing they're bast at anyway) that's missing from the Bard spell list, and Bards can always grab some of that anyway.

>>53572049
>far more spells available and not limited to a handful of known spells
>Super good class features that makes you significantly better at your preferred school
>Lore. Fucking. Wizard.
Wizard has a far greater spell list, having a few non-bard spells isn't a gamebreaking ability like you think it is. It does grant them versatility, whih is not the same as being *better*. It is being *different*, which is the fucking point of having different classes.

If he wanted to play a bard but picked a wizard, that's him being a retard. Don't blame the system for that.

>>53572087
So you literally didn't actually read anything beyond the first line and/or you completely failed to miss the points of the arguments.

If you have no idea what you're talking about, just say so.

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>>53572087
It's not about simplicity, it's about everything in the game working one way, and a special snowflake class having it's own set of rules that completely contradict how everything else in the game works, you fucking grognard. Learn some reading comprehension or get over your fanboyism for you psychic anime class.

>>53572122
I chose to respond only to one of the points.
For all you know, I may agree on the other points or hate Mystic just as much, but find the first point fucking stupid. Because it is.

>>53572087
>Arguing that Mystics are too complex
Your reading comprehension is shit.

The issue isnt complexity. It is part of it, but the issue is that they introduce a class that just disregards all the established rules, and anything from before its existence just doesn't apply to it for completely arbitrary reasons.

If you can't see why this is a problem, you are retarded, or possibly a WotC rules writer.

Why are casters so triggered by the Mystic? Is it because their precious Wizard finally has competition?

>>53572186
And yet you're still wrong and have no idea what the argument being made is. Just stop posting, your bait is garbage, if it's even bait at all.

>>53572200
Casters are because they do everything better, and smart players are because once again, they do everything better.

>>53572200
Forever GM here.

I hate them because of how badly they break the balance of the game.

>>53572200
>Wizard
>Having competition

No, Wizard still blows Mystic out of the water by the time it gets level 5 and 6 spells.

The problem is that before level 10, Mystic literally does everything in the game better than every other class in the game.

>>53572212
He's right though. You're clearly triggered for some reason and it's making you irrational. You're screeching that new things shouldn't be new.

>>53572122
>complains about too much complexity
>then complains about the lack of feats, counters, indicators, and other interacting effects which would make it more complex
????????

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>>53572241
Here is your (you), thanks for confirming.

Once again, you're completely missing the point, but I suppose 4 people telling you that doesn't matter when you're just trolling.

>>53572229
>>53572233
>>53572236
Wow that really didn't take much effort at all to catch these triggered wizards, huh?

>>53572261
See >>53572236

Also add in that the people who play Mystic are weeaboos trying to emulate anime 8/10 times.

>>53572258
>once again
More than one person is calling you a retard. You're so enraged by the Mystic because, ironically, you're the snowflake who wants to be the bestest at everything and the Mystic steps on your toes

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>>53572284

>>53572160
You mean the Warlock? Or maybe Monk?

>>53572272
>getting so desperate that try to imply Mystic is a weeb class
Wew that is one enraged Wizard

>>53572258
And now you're whining "samefag".
Must really burn you up inside that the simplicity point is shit or wasn't presented properly the first time.

If someone writes a post explaining that the sky is blue because God painted it with a brush and another guy comes along and talks about Rayleigh scattering, wavelengths of light, and the make-up of the eye, you don't get to say "shut up we were really talking about why birds can fly how the fuck did you miss the point"

>>53572300
I accept your concession of defeat. I'm glad you were able to admit that you're wrong and are in fact just a triggered caster snowflake.

>>53572272
Joke's on you, I got all my weeaboo emulation with Shadow Monk

>>53572309
I don't like wizards for the same reason, DESU. They just have slightly better flavor when they're doing everything better than everyone else.

>>53572272
Most of the Mystics i run into are playing it for Psylocke, Professor Xavier, or Jedi esque characters.

>>53572321
Not that anon, but where did he ever accuse of samefagging? I'm confused, did it suddenly take on a different meaning?

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How well does low magic work in 5ed? I was looking to run a thieves guild type game, focusing on heists, robberies, second story work, blackmail and political corruption. More average joes and less dragons and wizards.

>>53572339
>they studied books vs they studied the mind
Aye lad, dripping in flavour they are.

>>53572339
>Wizard Flavor
>i studied magic for two years but how or why isn't important
>i'm still a complete dumbass despite my massive Intelligence
>killing a few goblins will inexplicably teach me the great arcane secrets behind FIREBALL which remain mysteries to even those most dedicated scholars who've spent decades researching the arcane in their towers
>no, i didn't memorize any CC, why would we need that? surely Fireball will take care of these four hill giants

>>53572373
Fine really, only shortcoming is healing but you can easily circumvent that issue with potions and so on. Had fun a while back with a couple sessions where we were a mundane group of fighters and rogues doing small scale hijinks.

>>53572364
He was explicitly told that 2 people were responding to hom, but he to continue to levy shit like "once again" (it was my first post replying to him) and "4 people replying to you " when nobody else had replied to me.

t. Not the guy you're replying to but the one who was accused of being a samefag

>>53572374
>wizards
>studying books
If "having a spellbook" wasn't an intrinsic part of the class, 95% of Wizards wouldn't have one. Bards and Sorcerers and Clerics get by just fine without them.

>>53572373
Not at all, 70% of the classes and abilities in the game are magical. You're better off playing a different system. I'm not even trying to do the whole "have you tried not playing DnD" meme, but if you're looking no/low magic, you really are better off playing a different game.

>>53572404
>dude if wizards were sorcerers they'd be way more flavourful
>proving that wizards have much better flavour than mystics
Oh right

>>53572373
It works up until level 5s and 10s. Spells that solve problems like sending and scrying break the low magic setting in their current form because they solve a lot of problems.

If you wanted a true low magic setting go into the DMG and use the even longer rest rules. Where eight hours is a short rest, and a week of rest is a long rest.

>>53572404
Can we talk about how Wizards needing a spellbook is unnecessary and counter to 5e's overarching design goal of simplicity? Why does this ONE CLASS need a special snowflake book to put all of his spells in? Why is he the only one that has to memorize from this book?

Clerics come fully-stocked with knowledge on the details of and prayers involved in the casting of every spell available at a level, and they "know" all of them. The average Cleric, and especially the STARTING Cleric, has more magical information swirling around in his head and more spells at his disposal than the Wizard. While the Wizard has more complexity if he learns every fucking spell, that's just not going to happen, and even a level 9-ish Wizard is unlikely to know even half of all the first and second level spells. The Cleric doesn't need a book to do all of this. The Cleric doesn't even need to carry around a Bible or other writings about his faith; it's just assumed that he's memorized it all from Sunday school. And even if you do want to say that clearly a Cleric would carry a Bible, explain fucking DRUIDS. Are they carrying around a piece of bark with all the magical wisdom of nature carved into the back?

>>53572429
>implying "has psychic powers" isn't more flavorful than "owns a book"
Anyone can go buy a book, silly. And there's multiple classes that have arcane spellcasting.

>>53572399
>>53572438

So keep it low level, limit the magic in the world and dont throw magic at the players unless they have access to it as well.

>>53572415

I asked in a couple different threads and 5e was recommended. My biggest problem is finding people who want to play something that isnt 5e or PF

>>53572479
doesn't the wiz have lot more spells in his list?

our DM did houserule that the wiz can scribe spells into the book for free and can do it fast, I guess he can't be assed about it

>>53572502
5e is more than fine for it, but like its been stated before, don't expect to go long term. Even if magic was a focus playing pure martials gets old pretty quick for a lot of people. It'll depend on the strength of your ability to keep things interesting in the world more than anything.

A well laid-out heist game can be super fun though.

>>53572501
Are you disabled? That was entirely the point of my post. Mystics are more flavourful than Wizards.

The party will be visiting Elturel soon. What are some sources I can read? Does anyone have any decent maps?

They won't have too much free time to fuck around the city but I'd like to spend at least a session there. Even if it's just hanging out in a tavern and drinking.

>>53572514
The Wizard does have a larger spell list, but he doesn't have any of those in his book. All that's in his book is what he knows, which is pretty much fucking nothing at first level. Every two levels, the Cleric or Druid learns EVERY SPELL ON THEIR LIST for that level; the Wizard learns two.

Even if the Wizard finds spell scrolls or buys them in town (not that he'd have the money to do the latter in most cases), he's going to know fewer total spells than the Cleric or Druid at any given time unless the DM isn't just feeding you, but force-feeding you.

>>53572479
Clerical magic is memorizing the right prayers and having a god that's willing to reward that prayer with a magical outcome.
Wizard magic is studying and learning how to hack physics with weird gestures and words and requires actual intuition, research and a gigantic book to keep all of your world-hacking scripts in because god knows that it's too complicated for you to hold in your head at all times.

Wizards (and potentially bards) are the only class(es) that don't get their magic given to them by an external source or inherited through a bloodline. So yeah, they learn through hard mode and require a book to keep their spells in.

>>53572528
>guy called you silly
>you call him disabled
???
that escalated quick

>>53572577
>someone is actually crying that the fucking Wizard of all classes is underpowered
>this person was very likely crying about the Mystic being overpowered

>>53572598
He called me silly thinking I was advocating for the Wizard when I wasn't. That makes him (You) disabled.

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Who /newdice/ here?

>>53572566
I vaguely remember a novel set in the region, back in 3e times

>>53572479
It doesn't have to be a book. It could be a sack of stones with runes on them.

>>53572577
I dunno man, I'm playing my first campaign in 5e as a wizard. We're only level 4 but I'm already the single most important and powerful member of the party.

>>53572622
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MDJNE93

I was actually going to go buy them literally right now.

As a Lore bard, i have 2 proficiencies from Half Elf, 3 from being a bard and 3 from being a Lore Bard. Can I change one of those to be a potionmaking kit? My background gives 2 proficiencies + 2 other kits I need

>>53572727
If you like the colours go for it, they're good quality dice. I mainly wanted more for DM'ing so it's easier to roll high monster health/damage.

>>53570634
LEGENDARY ACTIONS

>>53572373
Only if you play at low levels.

What's your favourite underappreciated monster? I wanna spotlight some of the lesser known cool monsters.

>>53572754
The Roper

>>53572622
Those yours? I really like the blue and purple ones. I got a set of borealis die recently

How is the UA Samurai fighter archetype?
What is a good name for a samurai>

>>53572653
>not tattooing your spells on your torso so you can never lose them

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>>53572771
Yeah, they're the set linked to here
>>53572727
The only ones I'm not keen on are the white

>>53572813
Same here, the white ones look whatever but the rest are pretty.

>>53572813
>>53572771
>>53572738
>>53572727
>>53572622
Any advice on dice-bags or the ones that come with these okay? I guess I'll ask if anyone has a travel bag for all their dnd stuff to.

>>53572769
Last week we almost had a TPK with a roper.

PCs walked in a new chamber with half HP on everyone. The Roper grabbed them and reeled them in and bit whoever was attacking him. There were a couple of kobolds there but they were mostly just a nuisance. That was a horrible fight for the players. And they're all LEVEL 7! I wasn't expecting that from such an easy monster.

The module has a group of 3-4 levels face a Roper but that's pretty much impossible.

When will WotC release some of the UA stuff as official? Do you guys think the revised ranger will make the cut? I love rangers but the phb one is borderline useless

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My party split on a Bag of Devouring from amazon
then we drafted to see who would get first pick and so on
I ended up with Faerie Fire, Philosopher's Stone, and Jade Oil
really wanted them astral echoes tho (at least me brother got em)

>>53572622
>>53572813
well the colors look pretty good.

checked the link. They don't ship to where I am -_-

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Making a Land Druid based on racial territory, Coastal Water Genasi, Mountain Goliath or Underdark Svirfneblin sound most fun?

>>53572859
the dark ones seem like they wouldn't be quick readable under non-photoshoot/normal lights

I like Drowskin, Boiled Bile,Diamond Dust, Bubblegum, and especially the Cloud Drop

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>>53572839
You get 7 bags with these, they're made out of a soft-ish velvet and close with a draw string. Each bag is big enough to fit one dice set.

My two original dice sets are from chessex and came in pic related. I usually just put all of my stuff in a bag with all of my books.

>>53572883
That's a shame anon, hopefully you can find another set you like

Just a quick question: Meaning to run 5e for the first time and since Im kinda lazy I wanna go with one of the official campaigns. Been looking towards Hoard of Dragon Queen but I heard its bad. Which one is the best to start with?

How do we buff mystics? Class is too weak as it is, damage or power points should be increased imo. Maybe they shoud get an extra attack

>>53572883
https://www.amazon.com/Wiz-Dice-Bag-Devouring-Polyhedral/dp/B01KP4T6TQ/

Here's a link to the Bag of Holding anon mentioned earlier if it helps.

>>53572935
>Holding
Ha, meant devouring.

>>53572917
yeah it sucks. I have 2 full sets and 1 "set" of assorted dice.

I don't want to have hundreds of dice in my room but the linked ones were pretty cheap and they looked beautiful. I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

>>53572778

Jack.

>>53572921
LMoP is awesome.
CoS I hear is the best.
People like SKT.

Am running HotDQ right now, and I'll say skip it. It's not great as written and requires a lot of improv and modification

>>53572657
What kind of party is that? It's been my experience that low level casters are absolute shit most of the time.

>no modifier for cantrips
>few spells
>few spell slots
>not a lot of interesting class abilities yet

At least the Fighter can hit stuff from level 1 onward. The Wizard has a few shots to do 3d6 damage and if he rolls bad on those he'll be shit for a while until the next long rest.

Once they start being able to cast a few spells every encounter they're great though.

>>53572913
Cloud Drop was one of the top favorites while we were drafting for the dice. I would def have gotten Diamond Dust but someone snatched it before I had the chance.
Muh Faerie Fire turned out to be surprisingly really nice, will post pic in a bit
King's Ransom is the absolute worst of the bunch, ugly piss yellow
I'm still surprised a bunch of people liked bubblegum, but maybe I'm just being homophobic

While on the subject, all players in my group have their sets of dice with some extra from me and 2 other so we have more than enough.

But we have a rogue in the party at level 8 right now, so he gets to roll a lot of d6s. I'd love to buy a good set of d6s so he can have a separate "Sneak Damage Set".

Any recommendations? Not too expensive, nothing too fancy -- just 10 or so d6

>>53572300
Implying he's not right most the people I have seen in real life butthurt over the Mystic are Wizard players.

>>53572935
>>>53572913
That one ships but we really don't need 20 sets of dice. also 60+ liras nopppeeee

>>53572989
Yo, your secondary stat (most likely DEX, although some casters can swing STR) is the same as your casting stat at low levels. Just grab a bow or crossbow and you are only a very little behind the fighter doing the same damage at +2 (if he's archery).

>>53572622
>not just forgetting your dice every week and mooching them off someone else

>>53573063
We have like 8 members in the party, so we just split it amongst ourselves
true tho kinda pricey if you're just a few people

>>53572989
At low levels, wizards shine through utility as they can use as many rituals as they like. And they get three spell slots starting at level 1 anyway.
At low levels, moon druid is still ridiculously tanky.
At low levels, bard... Is a bit lacking, but they make up for it sooner or later with skills and assisting on skills and they can still make attacks with weapons. As can the other casters. They don't have to cast 1d10 firebolts when they can use 1d8+3 light crossbows (if they started with good dex)
At low levels, warlocks have eldritch blast so they're fine.
At low levels, sorcerer.. Is sorcerer, what did you expect?

>>53573039
You can buy boxes of d6s that are used as counters in magic or rolled in Warhammer. They're fairly cheap.

>>53572622
>cheap plastic shit
>not getting them here
https://www.artisandice.com/

>>53572514
I've got jackall for spells to scribe in my campaign. DM says he's rolling for loot and it just hasn't appeared yet. Fuck him.

>>53572601
>be loremaster
>DM makes us slog through encounters without the opportunity to rest
>have to make up for stuff like, but not limited to:
>stupid paladin casting find steed mid combat in a dungeon
>sorcerer blowing himself up
>cleric casting cure wounds in combat, even though I keep saying healing word is better, action economy etc
>can barely use alchemical casting because of the risk of running dry on slots
>party constantly nagging me for not having spell x or y
>come to /5eg/ to find whiteroom theorycrafters complaining about loremaster supremacy
whelp

>>53573122
>$261

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>>53573148
>Be loremaster
>Complain
Get the fuck out.

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How hard did you homerule spells in your game? Do you have a list you can drop to Pastebin or smth? Currently in the process of parsing all of them to weed out things that don't suit our setting's world, seeing others' approaches is interesting.

>>53573148
>cleric casting cure wounds in combat, even though I keep saying healing word is better, action economy etc
but the die is a d8, THATS LIKE DOUBLE THE HEALING

>>53573148
>Be bad at wizard when the DM actually enforces a full working day
>Probably only took fireball
>Complain that you can't burst all day long
>Doesn't use broken lore wizard combos to make full extent of the fact they were given a broken class archetype

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>>53573031
Faerie Fire looks real nice under good lighting, they look like pimp dice
Maid took my green d4, I guess she plays d&d too

>>53573116
>At low levels, bard... Is a bit lacking, but they make up for it sooner or later with skills and assisting on skills
My bard is level 14 in a party that started at level 1.

I ave made very few skills checks that wasn't stealth, arcana or perception. I have almost exclusively assisted, despite often being significantly better than the others.

The one time recently where I was separated from the group, and called upon to make a bunh of different checks, people were pretty surprised at how good a Bard actually is at skill checks. It is honestly a bit absurd.

But yeah, they start out pretty meh. Lore bard start to get rolling at level 6, but only really fully comes into their own at level 10.

>>53573148
>whiteroom theorycrafters complaining about loremaster supremacy
>loremaster is so broken they can cast spells that make the enemy fail repeat saves because of the effect of the spell

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>>53573213
Don't.

>>53573223
>mfw my level 1 claric casts cure wounds

>>53567121
>unique t-rex
That's a strange way to advertise a book

>>53573213
Polymorph is warlock-only. Some high level spells are filtered for abuse if they ever come into play like 'wish allows you to cast spells with cost components for free' and simulacrum armies.
Cure wounds / healing word gives one round temporary HP I guess

I made a 'haywire' table for something like wild magic surges but executed better (alters the spell cast rather than doing lolrandumb shit), but decided it's still too much faf and will only use it for unstable magic areas.


Really you don't need to remove most spells, just refluff them.

>>53573231
Fuck you. Half of the nagging I got to endure is literally "what kind of wizard doesn't have fireball?".

>>53573260
>try the hold person meme
>dm rules it only applies to the first save
amazing

>>53572989
Wizard is not all about damage, my dude

We're barbarian, rogue and wizard btw.

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>>53573213
Sure.

>>53573223
I mean, he's not wrong, it is double the healing
still retarded tho

As a War Cleric I keep trying to explain action economy to my party, and how they don't need healing until they're downed, but they all just want HEALZ RITE NOW

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>>53573122
>>53573188
>spending more than $10 on a single set of dice

>>53573302
>>53573231
What kind of wizard doesn't have fireball? No one else is going to be doing that much damage over a huge area. Yeah, control is better, but a fireball situation is going to come up sooner or later

>>53573302
I hope you're at least using rituals.

>>53573302
>Loremaster is fine, really!
>You just have to ignore the rules and nerf them to shit!
Okay buddy.

>>53573340
Pretty much. Fireball spam is the sign of a bad wizard, not having fireball at all is the sign of a wizard handicapping themselves.

>>53573369
>>53573340
I have to be very careful about the spells I choose at level ups because my DM has never ever given me a scroll or other spellbook.

I was thinking of running Storm King's Thunder for a campaign I'm starting soon. Does anyone have any experience with it; is it even worth picking up?

>>53573395
You can still get 4+ level 3 spells. Counterspell, Fireball, control and water breathing because its a ritual you only need to do in the morning everyday

>>53573316
This is true, but the lack of spell slots really limits them at low levels. I mean, rituals give them great utility but you did specify that he's the most powerful party member.

>>53573463
I am, they could not do SHIT without me.

Does the great weapon master feat effect the longwsord when held with both hands?

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>>53567073

You come across a mansion which contains 9 undead party guests, and 1 undead host.

Before they were undead, the host was killed and everyone else suddenly died

How did this happen

>>53573596
poison my man

>>53573584
Holding a longsword in two hands does not change its properties, so no. It's still a versatile 1d8(1d10) martial weapon.

>>53573340
The wizard in my group didn't pick up fireball at 5th level because he found a Necklace of Fireballs magic item. I still think he's retarded for not taking it.

>>53573584
No. Needs to be a heavy melee weapon, unlike Great Weapon Fighting that only needs a weapon held 2 handed

>>53573596
>good old nobles poisoning eachother at the dinner table
>but mansion was built on top of an ancient burial ground
>victim turned into zombie
>zombie bit other guests

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Thoughts on this Alchemist class?
I want to try being a Witcher using the Science of Mutation Subclass (page 9)

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>>53573641
>>53573605
The bonus attack from a critical strike doesn't say that it has to be a heavy weapon. Only the second portion of the feat seems to require that.

>>53573602
Forgot to mention that the host was killed with a blunt object.

The guests weren't though. What reason may they have for killing the host and then poisoning everyone? My guess would be to kill the host to gain access to the kitchen

>>53573345

Speaking of Rituals, I see you can cast them without having them prepared, but are you allowed to cast them in combat? Going to my first 5e session next week as a caster and don't want to be a complete dumbass.

>>53573729
Sure you can cast them in combat. Just remember a round of combat is 6 seconds.

>>53573729
You can only cast them unprepared if you have ritual caster I think, otherwise you need to have it prepared but casting it as a ritual doesn't use up it's spell slot

>>53573743
So ten rounds to cast a ritual with casting time of 1 minute. Got it.

How the hell do you break it to a chick that you aren't interested? I am GMing, and I feel like this is going to be really fucking annoying in the long run.

Some 26 year old girl, acting more like a 12 year old shy virgin, seems to be using our games as a way to get close to me, and it is annoying as hell.

I have tried this shit multiple times, and even been married once, and I am not going to bother wasting my time on this again.

Problem is that she is actually the most interesting player at the table, that actually cares about shit that doesn't give exp or loot. And she is friends with another player who will likely leave if I break this too hard. If she at least seemed to be a person you could have a proper talk to, without her blushing to death, that would have been fine, but alas.

What do? I know this is a massive long shot, but I can't be the only one +40 in here, right?

>>53573760
I don't play caster, but don't rituals increase casting time by 10 minutes

>>53573713
Yeah, but the first one alone is hardly enough to warrant the feat.

>>53573760
No, 110 rounds to cast a ritual that originally had a casting time of 1 minute unless you spend a spell slot, in which case it's 10 rounds.
Have fun with that.

>>53573774
You posted this wank yesterday. Fuck off.