Warhammer 40000 general /40kg/

FIRST FOR LAND RAIDER DRIFTING

Voidravens are seriously expensive, but that 72" bombing run tho...

I really hate how convoluted these points systems are now. I've built and checked my list over 4 times now and I'm still finding errors.

There's a ton of typos/missing entries/wrong values plastered through these books, too. At least for tyranids.

Maybe the complexity was in part made to push an upcoming list builder app? I might just give in and go to power levels now...

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Soon to be the most annoying unit of 8th edition

Necros are now the new WAAC-fag toy

>Black Knights are 50 pts per instead of 40
>14" range with 18" plasma that doesn't have to Get Hot
>Cover isn't its own save, so now they can have a 2+
BUT
>Jink isn't re-rollable, and is now a 5++, why even bother if they have to be shot with a Plasma Cannon before it's even advantageous?
>Darkshroud now costs 128 pts per instead of 95
>Icon doesn't add to any save, instead detracts from enemy hit rolls. Meaning MEQs hit on 4+
>Doesn't protect itself any more
>instead of FnP, Ravenwing Apothecaries are Techmarines for meat, and cost 97 pts per instead of 70. And are also a separate Elites choice.
>Plasma talons are Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire

How will (You) generate psychic powers, and other random effects like DE combat drugs, in 8th edition?

http://www.strawpoll.me/13087618

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>>53552700
36 points each including the gun

Had a few hours breaking down the changes in the DE index to see what's been buffed and what's been nerfed making like for like lists on paper and 7th ed Battlescribe.

I'm struggling to determine why you'd take Hellions over Reavers ever still or what roll Hellions are meant to play. Anyone help me out?
Stats I was using to compare

5× Hellions 85 (92)
Stun claw 7
10 poison shots at 18"
11 attacks on the charge
+1 wound per 6 rolled by heliarch
5 wound squad
14" movement and [Hit and Run]

3× Reavers 90 (124)
Grav Talon 5, Heat Lance 25, Agoniser 4
2 (4 in rapidfire) poison shots at 24"
1 heat Lance shot
7 attacks on the charge
4+ roll for mortal wounds on any model within 1" of grav talon
6 wounds total
16" movement

>>53552698
It's because you are playing an NPC army

>>53552700
>>53552734
>drop anything with a Heat Lance/Melta next to it
>deletes then unit in a single turn of shooting
lmao

>>53552749
>attacks on the charge

You do realize you no longer get an attack for charging right ?

>>53552698
I guess maybe GW thought that the points costs would only be used by hardcore tournament players, and so it's okay to expect those sort of people to crunch numbers. It sounds like everyone's ignoring power levels and using points, however.

>>53552784

Yeah bad habit, I just mean the profiles have that many attacks

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Fish of Fury is back!

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Do we know what the first codex will be? I'm assuming Primaris.

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>Aspiring Champions with double bolt pistols are a thing now

Woods - Get cover when the entire unit is inside
Ruins - Get cover when the unit is inside
Crater - A model gets cover if it is inside

How many people are writing these rules?

So many fucking typos. "Supa rokkit" vs "Super rokkit". What the fuck Gdubs.

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>>53552637

Who is GW trying to fool with these Space Marinelet heroes (can manlets be heroes)? Who would even pick these up if they weren't a Japan only release with the Primaris Marines on the way?

Which chapters make heavy use of terminators and dreadnoughts? I would prefer no special snowflakes

>>53552813
Primaris
Nurgle
Primaris
Nurgle
Primaris
Newish faction
Primaris
Partially new faction
Nurgle
Primaris

>>53552786
that's cause power level is kinda dumb for anything but narrative play where you agree on a scenario beforehand and build your army accordingly
marines are cheaper than fucking scouts

>>53552749
Did you mix up Hellions and Reavers? Because that comparison makes Hellions look better.

However Reavers are more tanky, with a better toughness and save. Being multiwound models they are also less vulnerable to morale. They can also move 24" in a turn.

Remember, kids! By naming the Sept faction keyword <Wu Tang Clan>, and the Craftworld keyword <Wu Tang Clan>, they now share a faction keyword and can ally as separate detachments!

>>53552725
How is Plasma Talons being Assault 2 a downside? How is having a straight-up 5++ bad when *everybody else* has no link at all? And the Icon still works on itself.

>>53552856
NICE MEME!

>>53552749
>>53552853
Reavers have 2 roles for me now
>Fast, tough unit to intercept a charge and tie something up for a bit
>Character/TEQ hunters

So has GW issued a formal statement about their whole ruleset getting leaked and everyone fucking hating it?

>>53552875
You're being very cute, anon.

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>>53552841

White Scars

>>53552875
nothing yet, and dont expect anything

they want to pretend nothing is on fire

Hey can anyone tell me where the datasheet for the thousand sons Exalted Sorcerers are leaked?

>>53552875
>hating it

You might be in the minority there, son. All 20 of the guys in my area are stoked about this release. Its brought 2 old players out of the dark since the rules were leaked.

Even our tau players are happy with the balances.

>>53552875
They did say theyll be updating with codexes... and what a sad day it is when i want to go back to codex creep because at least then things were somewhat balanced.

>>53552875
Not everyone hates it, Anon. Just a minority.

>>53552875

im just shocked that people have been this stupid and believing theyd get functioning armies

>>53552875
If AoS has shown anything, going by people's first reaction would be a dumb thing anyway, let alone knee-jerk reactions of internet nerds that do nothing but shout about doom & gloom.

>>53552725
The fag from the last thread.
Cry even harder, mr Deathstar.

>>53552875
well i dont hate it but im pretty disappointed, its quite obvious they didnt playtest enough based on the games ive played. there are SO many ways to abuse the rules.

>>53552875
does everyone hate it?

I haven't been checking this shit lately. how do you qualify "everyone hates it"? is it causing massive butthurt on facebook and dakkadakka etc. or something?

So how's the timeline looking?
Lacking some ork interaction, I haven't really followed The Gathering Storm too closely.
But Rowman woke up at 5 min before midnight and some shit went down before that huge warp storm emerged, right?

At what point in time were the primaris marines manufactured?
was Cawl working on them the whole time in secret? Or did they just finish them after Rowboat woke up and now that they've brought them out some few ten to hundred years have passed since The Gathering Storm?

>>53552875
>everyone
>not just a couple of loud morons that fail to realize that all armies have changed

>>53552916

AoS has gotten better, but people's first reaction to it was absolutely correct.

Narrative play my ass!

>>53552916
aos was dead for a year until they released all the tomes and the handbook.
so i guess we wait a year to play? great idea, so much fun will be had!

>>53552786
I feel like they tried way too hard to appeal to a casual crowd they'll never have?
"Oh who would ever take time to do all that math? Who is that patient? Certainly not our players, who had to paint, build, detail and assemble tiny plastic men that cost two arms and two legs!"

Speaking of casual, though, whatever happened to those kid-friendly pre-primed models they said they were going to push? I never heard and more on them, and never saw any except a tac marine and chaos marine box.

>>53552916
AoS killed fantasy. Not sure if thats a knee jerk reaction so much as rigor mortis.

>>53552875
>t. man who wasn't around for third edition

>>53552786
Of course we are. Power levels are mathematically provably fucking broken. Even more so than the god awful points values.

>>53552921
>was Cawl working on them the whole time in secret?

Yes

Rawbooty told him to wake them.

>>53552920
No, but some people have declared everything broken and beyond salvageable, like how Tau are now unplayable as a faction and how Berserkers are the worst unit of all armies. You know, reasonable assessments after glancing at the rules once.

>>53552898
>Even our tau players are happy with the balances.

What a crock of shit. Tau players are losing their minds. Have you seen Advanced Tau Tactica? It's like they have regressed tot he Mont'au. Sad!

>>53552955
Oh yeah, that guy who said they were dead as a faction.

And who the fuck said that about Berserkers, I'm sad I missed the sperging.

>>53552920
Some sites have banned discussion of it because the reaction has, in some communities, been so bad GW was complaining it was causing bad press for them i.e. warseer.

GW is afraid that knowing things about their product will make people not want to buy it. Think about that for a second.

>>53552934
AoS was played in that year as well, quite a lot in fact, it was just that the GHB fixed the one glaring issue by getting rid of all the fan-made balance systems and introducing an official one.

>>53552988
Proofs?

>>53552898
Have you not seen the people saying theyre burning their armies?

>>53552955

well thats dumb.
They have removed all artifacts, spells, faction rules and supplement units/rules, and all formations of course.
This edition was created when AoS was created, this has been the plan all along. Make a game for any casuals so they can have higher turnover with starter packs and then sell a shitload of extra codexes and supplements that they earlier could only sell once every few years.
Now its gonna be a yearly thing because "balance".
And the shit-turds are just gonna gobble it all up.

>>53552998
Heres the thing about a website deleting everything and banning further discussion... it doesnt leave much proof.

>>53552988
I have serious trouble believing that.

>>53553016
No, proof that GW told them to. Someone would have proof of that.

>>53552997

pretending that Aos was well received is delusional. its taken so much PR money to get back the money they lost on that release theyre probably still paying for it.

>>53552988
I think GW is more concerned with the fact that if everyone has already all the rules and can print them as many times as they want nobody would ever buy their rulebooks or indexes.

>>53552838
They seem rather proportionate though

>>53553014
>And the shit-turds are just gonna gobble it all up

Sure am! This edition looks great.

Also, shit-turds, really? What a redundant insult.

If every army is nerfed then is anyone actually nerfed?

What are the auto include tyranid units?

Biovores, exocrine, OOE, hive tyrants w/guard, lictors, carnifex, wariors and what else?
How to equip them?

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Warhammer Community just released a video showing the design process and interviews with the writing staff for 8th ed.

https://youtu.be/zNLGXJVpZhE?t=10

Anybody know of any good 40k podcasts, just getting back in.

>>53553034

ohno someone enjoying a less involving and interesting game! Ohmy is my face red now

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>>53553046
got me

>>53552902
>because at least then things were somewhat balanced.
>somewhat balanced.
>balanced.
>BALANCED

B A L A N C E D

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So with the new weapon rules, if an Aspiring Champion replaces his bolt pistol with a second bolter or a combi, doesn't that mean he gets to fire both bolters each shooting phase? So long as it's not a pistol or a grenade, a model is said to be able to fire all of its guns.

It's like getting a free storm bolter, since bolters are free.

>i can no longer buy 3 wraitknights and have my whole army list for the next 4 years
>woe is me this game is crap now

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>>53552637
Stupid question about making army list, do you have to pay for the wargear the base model is equipped with?
Pic related, would it cost 150 points or 192 points?

>>53553035
Necrons were grossly buffed, so the premise doesn't really work.

>>53552846
Is this by weeks or by months. I just want Morty

>>53553060
Yeah, let that be a lesson, Anon.

>>53552811

Whatever, I'll just deepstrike my guys from behind since they no longer scatter.

>>53552902
so these are the people who complain about the new ruleset

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>>53553046

>>53553079
Yes. For matched play, the basic cost of a model is without weapons. You have to add in the weapons on the profile.

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>>53553079
You have to pay. It's the same deal with IG vehicles coming with HBolters, or Deldar raiders coming with dis cannons.

If a unit's cost includes its wargear, it will say so on the points sheet (like Assassins do). Most, however, will say "without wargear."

>>53553079
In general, yes.
You pay the points for the base model.
You look at what gear it is equipped with.
You look at the point costs of said gear.
You pay for that.

>>53553078
ssentially this. Note like that, barring legitimate complaints like "the blast rules do not represent a large blast correctly, the math is wonky" or "this is slightly overpriced", the biggst complainr ar th netlisters.
See this faggot. MUH SAVES >>53552725

Fuck them, honestly.

>>53553014
>This edition was created when AoS was created,
Source: My Ass

>>53553079
192 points
it clrealy states (wargear not included) at the top of the point costs , the occasional exception being named characters but those are in a diffrent tab

>>53553100
This is one of the stupider design choices I've seen, and I teach design at a school where the kids take my class to avoid doing gym.

>>53553071
Can't do that, the AC loses both the pistol and bolter if he wants special equipment.

>>53553071
yes, if theres not a "instead of" or "replace" text in the wargear text you will have both and can shoot both

>>53552902
The cognitive dissonance is strong.
I am curious, anon, which army did/do you play?

>>53553113
Okay.

>>53553100
>>53553099
>>53553106
>>53553112
Well, that's incredibly fiddly... Thanks

>>53553046
fuckin got em

>>53553044
Hive guard with impaler cannons look pretty good too.

can someone clarify: are commander aura affect commander himself?

>>53553080

>implying guard weren't also insanely buffed

Hope you're ready to see 250 conscripts on the table, each 50 man blob with a commisar, and getting frf,srf orders every turn to literally rape baneblades, imperial knights, and land raiders
And that's just half of their army.

>>53553113
Is any of your kids a GW game designer, by chance?

>>53553125
If you are required to take those items, why not include their points, and reduce the cost of alternate replacement items?

>>53552734
around 1 mortal wound per shooting phase is kinda shit in my opinion and even if it does not hit the target you must wait to the next turn to move to detonate the mine and with the new rules even a guardsmen squad can split lasfire to cover almost every mine you can launch and pop them on a +4 +2

>>53553135
Yes

>>53553079
You have to look in the back of the index for points costs of weapons. It says right there that the model's cost does not include weapons, so yes, you also have to pay for base wargear. Although a lot of stuff like bolters and chainswords are 0 points.

>mfw a helbrute is almost 200 points now

I just checked the chaos index and shit seems all out of whack. On one hand, a lot of things got more expensive, but on the other hand, some things got cheaper which would have made them balanced in 7th (like the plasma pistol is now 7 points). I don't really know how to digest this shit, these new point levels all seem so bizarre and arbitrary, but maybe it will be alright. But the points costs are inflated so hard now that 2000 points is the new 1500 etc.

>>53553140
No they don't let kids do stuff like that, obviously, anon.
It's not advanced enough.

>>53553135
Unless stated otherwise, yes.

>>53553154
fair enough

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>>53553126
Not really. If you had just read the point sheet, it says clearly that model's point cost Does Not Include Wargear. It's different from what you're used to, but not fiddly.

>>53553151
Flash Gitz - 27 points a model.

Go look at that statline.

>>53553143
because then you would have to have multiple lists for every Piece of gear, depending on which unit can take it and how many points it will cost for either of them to buy it.

I can see why they did this, then again, I can see why one wouldn't want to do this just the same.

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>>53553134
>impaler cannons

old and busted, being heavy you will lose BS, making the enemy roll for anal circumference while moving is better I say

>>53553143
Because then those alternate replacement items would be undercosted for other units.

>>53553135
in aos models are confirmed to be within range of their own abilities , i'dd expect the same to be the case in 8th

>thinking about getting into 40k with the new edition
>try watching Long War podcast about 8th
>its a bunch of tourneyfags
>all they do is shit on open/narrative, power levels, maelstrom missions
>NO ITEMS FINAL DESTINATION FOX ONLY level of faggotry
>one of them has trailer trash sideburns and vapes constantly

Is the whole 40k community this awful?

>>53553134
Somebody said you can only take hive guard in units of 3, not 6 for matched play, is this correct?

>>53553143
Because you also have the option to change them, like an Hbolter into Hflamer or dis cannon into Dlance. It's far easier to have a base model with added gear than a base model that doesn't match yours and then need to play "how to adjust it" games to find your final cost.

>>53553174
If only there were some kind of datasheet, where all the things available to a unit could be listed alongside their points values...

>>53553169
No, I mean how many pages you have to flick through to get all base cost of a model. 3 pages to get the cost of 1 basic variant of a models is more than needed.

>>53553181
Can be, but no, not all of it.

>>53552897

no one has exalted sorcerer leak?

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Of the HH books, wich is the one our favourite edgelord messes shit up in Imperium Secundus?

>>53553176
Well, I know this is a pretty fucking left-field suggestion, but you could always stand still to shoot your 36", no-LOS-required gun.

>>53553196
Well, I won't argue with you there. Base cost should have been included on the unit sheet instead Power Points or whatever, and there's literally no reason in this digital age to not have wargear costs right there on the sheet too.

At least they were kind enough to throw all of a faction's costs - for units, guns, and everything - onto one page, so if you know what you have already, totaling their points is very easy.

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>>53553200
>>53552897

>>53553200
nvm found it...

>>53553218
2 steps forward, 1 step back I guess. Anyway, thanks for the clarification

>>53553169
>but not fiddly

Not that guy but this new codex, sorry "index" layout is autistic as fuck, literally what the hell am I reading.

They didn't include base wargear in the unit points cost because . . . why exactly? It makes no damn sense, what is even the reason for making people do an extra step to calculate the shit their dudes always come with anyway. The old codexes where it just says "replace weapon with x for y points" got it right, this new shit is just convoluted for absolutely no good reason. A total number of 0 people are going to play with power levels so that whole datasheet clutter just adds to the unnecessary bloat and page flipping and remembering arbitrary numbers.

I want to be optimistic but there is an assload of dumb design in this new index paradigm.

>>53553193
And then you'd have to remake the entire datasheet if you wanted to rebalance the points costs. Now GW can just release an updated points table instead. That was the whole point of moving over to the new system.

>>53553181
Yes.

>>53553225
thanks man, it was so far down i thought theyd forgotten :/

>>53553136
50 conscrips all within rapid fire range (which is highly unlikely) will only do like 4 wounds/turn to a t6+ sv3+ model

>>53553235
see >>53553218

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>>53553205
>stand still
what?

If your selling your army I feel you need to take a step back, calm down, grot your teeth and start thinking.

You nerfed my Leman Russes to crap? Very well, GW I accept your challenge!

First: two battalion detachments. I need every command pointI can grab for this.
Next: 4 Tank Commanders. Pask is (relatively) cheaper and BS2+ so he's an auto take.
3rd: Troops with heavy bolters, maybe some conscripts. Minimum tax is 48*3*2=288 points. Not a problem.
Elites: grab a techpriest, a platoon commander, and a commissar for each detachment. Buffs all around. If I can fit it, a mecvet and/or mec-command squad with babysitting PC.

The tanks will be BS3+ rerolling 1s with commands, with Pask as the exception. Gunna run them all as vanquishers because double fuck you GW I want big guns. Pask runs a battle cannon though, because I'm using the command reroll to get 4-5 practically guaranteed d3 damage hits per turn. Each tank is 212-222 points.

Is this a viable army? Eh, won't know. Is it playable? Yes. I can land an average of 6 shots from four vanquishers at 48", with Pask only boosting the damage output thanks to Battle Cannon bullshit. It should be enough to screw up anyone's day.

I can't get over Inquisition being able to use any Imperium vehicles. Like, its not a bad thing and its pretty fluffy, but I just can't get over it.
I can't wait to load up a Nighthawk full of acolytes.

>>53553243

It's not at all unlikely to be within 12 inches of an enemy on a stadard tabletop.

>only 4 wounds

Considering how cheap they are, how impossible they are to get rid of, and how much damage they can do, it's obviously worth it if you look at the points cost.

>>53553275

wtf is a night hawk

>>53552932
My narrative ass play!

>>53553243
3.7 with FRF!SRF!, but who's counting?

...Holy crap that's weak. Is there no way to get rerolls for IG yet?

>>53553235
You use the points during army creation and you need 2 pages. The datasheet with the available options and the page with the points. You add these up and write them in your list.
How is that hard again?
In previous editions you had flip pages to check what options you had available (list of x weapons with points) and the point of the unit itself.
If anything it removes clutter because now it keeps pointcosts where it belongs: pregame. Once the army is done you only need the datasheets and have every unit or weaponstat on them.

>>53553292
Stormeagle variant

>>53553296
Get 50 command points and use them all on your conscripts

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>want to start a Chaos marines army
>Slaanesh is my favorite, but no models for them
>all regular Chaos marines are 11 year old sculpts and manlets also
>It's also Nurgles turn, and more than likely it'll be Khorne marines next because GW constantly jerk Khorne off at any chance

Life is suffering

>>53553317
Can't you only use a given strat once per phase?

That said though, CP are easy as all fucking hell to get with IG now that platoons are gone. We're going to be shitting out CP. I feel like we won't even need commissars to handle our morale at this rate.

>>53553319
AoS is going to get Slaneesh elves if you really want to be a degenerate

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>>53553319
Fulgrim and the EC soon, brother, have some patience and the glorious Third will be here soon.

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>>53553319
>mfw world eaters player

>>53553296

>weak
Those 50 conscripts cost 150 points, and with that many wounds to chew through, they're incredibly hard to get rid of.

To kill off 250 conscripts (less than half the points of a full army) you'd need about 150 space marines shooting unmolested for 6 turns straight.

Jesus fuck, icon of flame is so terrible.

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If an Attack Squig is free, why would you ever not take one? Why even make it an option? Your model is significantly weaker without it.

>>53553338
For significantly less points, a squad of HWT and lascannons could tear a t6+ model a new one.

If I wanted to be immovable, I'd just take necrons. Their new RP is completely out of this world.

>>53553035
Well yes - now everyone is nerfed. I don't know the original of the term exactly but now everything is weak like a Nerf gun.

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>>53553319

>mfw death guard player

>>53553070
Who are these people who thought 7th was balanced? What armies did they play???

>>53553237
You mean like the codexes they plan on releasing...?

>>53553319
Because you call them Manlets. Slaanesh doesnt like it when you talk shit but act all gibsmedat anyway.

>>53553289
it's gonna take a while to get them all in range though, and they'll presumably be taking shots all the while
they're gonna be a great unit sure , but there are counters , gotta keep that commissar bubblewrapped !
>>53553296
there's an order that allows you to reroll 1's but obviously that means giving up FRFSRF so why you'dd ever do that on anything but plasma squads is beyond me
also yarrick gives you a 6 inch reroll to hit's of 1's (and all failed to hits if shooting orks)
harker also allows catachans within 6 inches to reroll 1's

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>>53553319
Our time will come, brother.

>>53553181
No. Watch Wargaming Minions and Miniwargaming Instead.

>>53553358
Yes. With the new system you can just release a new points table if things need to be rebalanced, instead of having to put out a whole new codex.

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>>53552970
>What a crock of shit. Tau players are losing their minds. Have you seen Advanced Tau Tactica? It's like they have regressed tot he Mont'au. Sad!

Rules look great Gue'la. On the internet everyone is a pessimist.

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http://www.strawpoll.me/13087891

Alright chaps, lets take a head count. Who preferred 7th.

>>53553350

>For significantly less points, a squad of HWT and lascannons could tear a t6+ model a new one.

150 points of lascannon teams do 2 wounds against a T8 Sv 3+ model, and get blown away way way easier.
Hell, losing a single model can make you lose the 3 team squad with a bad leadership check.

>>53553357
For some people, the rose-tinted glasses drop down the instant something is updated.

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Why the hell is any of this a thing? Any of it?

>>53553382
Except they ARE going to be putting out whole new codexes. They've said that. That is a thing that will be happening.

>>53553330
Sauce?

>>53552875
It was just mentioned on twitch/warhammer, they said they know they leaked and people have seen them through "nefarious means" but they still won't answer any questions about things they haven't officially announced.

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>>53553319
>mfw Night Lords

I cannot believe its actually normal in this game to launch a new edition and have no support for so many factions.

Its like if Fifa launched with every non-champion league team filled with nameless reserve players.

>>53553365

>it's gonna take a while to get them all in range though, and they'll presumably be taking shots all the while

I've already spent hours running the numbers.
It basically doesn't matter.
They just have too many wounds for a tank of the same point cost to do anything, and they get so many shots that they win most encounters I ran.
Even in the encounters they lost, they did way more damage than conscripts with lasguns have any business doing to vehicles.

If there's a counter, I'm yet to see it.

>>53553388
>Was
>8th not even released yet
>All armies have stopgap rules so that everybody can play
>Just like the slim, bland 3rd edition codexes
>"Was"

Also funny how first 7th surged, but not long thereafter 8th started trucking ahead. More proof that the grumpy grognards with a stick up their ass sideways are the quickest when it comes to complaining about something without giving it any thought or chance.
top kek

>>53553403
Yes. And if it's unbalanced, it can be fixed easily, instead of letting the army stay broken for years until the next codex comes out.

>>53553423
>projecting this hard

>>53553006

I've seen Chris-chan saying a lot of stuff but I don't take it as an indicator of what the American public wants to do.

>>53553402
fear of list sprouting around exploting said rules

like an army specialised in deep striking that comes down only at the last turn with enough alpha strike power to turn the table on the objectives alone, or the occasional unbalanced psychic power getting spammed to no end now that you can choose it.

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>>53553415

>Night lord players
>complain when their special armywide rule is fear
>complain when they don't have it

>>53553423

>All armies have stopgap rules so that everybody can play
>Just like the slim, bland 3rd edition codexes

I hope you're referring to the army sections in the back of the main rule book

Could a servo skull potentially retain the personality of the person it belonged to? An inquisitor with a wisecracking servo skull sounds cool.

>>53553434
><standard 4chan reply no.6>

>>53552853

Why does it make them look better?

>>53553415
I'm the Slaanesh fag and I'll agree with you. I wish more Chaos renegade marines that don't like Chaos would get some representation

>>53553423
>people who feel emotions have invalid opinions

spoken like a true autist

>>53553448

How does a skull retain a personality?

>>53553448
Sorta a thing in vaults of terra

>>53553447
The first few codexes in 3rd edition were dogshit as well. That's why "3.5e" is common parlance.

>>53552700
>taking biovores over an exocrine, which is a fucking engine of destruction now

Say I have something like a frag missile, that is HeavyD3, do I make a single roll to hit then make D3 rolls to wound, or do I make D3 rolls to hit?

Having a discussion with a friend over which it is, and we can't actually find anything in the rules to definitely say one way or the other.

Regarding targeting, are vehicles held to the same rule as infantry? I.e if there's a bunch of guard in front of a baneblade do I have to shoot them first or is it like the example of Magnus the Red; 10+ wounds Is target able?

Template weapons were kinda cool desu
I'm sad

>>53553110
is that dow 2 martellus?

>>53553461
by keeping the brain bits safe
at least for the most part

>>53553474
One of the few things that kept it from just being math hammer.

>>53553447
What it's like is the 3rd edition rulebook army lists.

>>53553389
>150 points of lascannon teams do 2 wounds
wat
i did the math 150 points of lascannon teams ( 144 for 6 lascannon teams to be precise assuming the 4 points ppm for them isn't a typo ) do 5.8 unsaved wounds against t8 3+ save and can do so from across the map, unlike conscripts who need to get 50 guys within 12 inch to do 3.7

>>53553443
my army is half raptors

literally can't even field it in 8th

>>53553472
d3 rolls to hit.

>>53552841
Iron hands use a ton of dreads. Not sure about terminators. I know their Gorgon Terminators in 30k are decent. And the fluff is that the wearer is cybernetically fused to the armor.

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>>53553415
>They tease about Night Lords in their daily spoilers
>No Night Lords rules

>>53553467

Mostly just the IG and Chaos ones.

>>53553483
Alright

>>53553472
You need to determine how many attacks a ranged weapons has before you know how many dice you need to roll to hit

>>53553473
Only units with the Character keyword and less than 10 wounds can't be targeted unless they are the closest unit in the shooting phase.

>>53553474
yeah it was fun to shoot a big green piece of plastic from my flamer dudes, now they just feel like glorified bolters. it does help prevent shitty players from cheating though.

>>53553481
Yeah, added a bit of strategy and diversity. I don't understand the choice of removing them

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>>53553388
Well 8th edition certainly has it's fans, but it's far from unanimous.

>>53553472

I'd assume you roll a D3 to see what number of shots your firing, then roll to hit with that number, then roll the necessary number of wounding dice. I assume this because otherwise it makes hitting with randomized shot weapons succeptible to all their shots missing if your fail to hit on the first roll and that would be shitty as dicks m80.

>>53553389
5.83, actually, from 144 points of lascan HWT (x6). Since we're including orders, it's 6.48 wounds when rerolling 1's to hit.

And for a mere 114pts, 6 autocannon HWT will deal four wounds even against T6. 4.44 if rerolling 1's to hit with orders.

And for 165 pts, 3 armored plasma sentinels can do other fun stuff.

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for sale in my area. beautifully painted

>>53552841
probably the most famous terminator-heavy army is dark angels deathwing.

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>>53553319

>just want to build a nice undivided Black Legion army
>shitty Abaddon
>shitty Chaos Marines
>shitty Havocs
>no Chosen

>>53553508

I see so I can't screen my venoms with a wall of 4 wound razorwing flocks? Finding less and less use for the beasts as I think about them...

>>53553493
Yes you can.

Outrider Detachment.

>>53553520

Very cool!

How much?

>>53553494
>>53553508
>>53553516
Thanks folks, that was the side I was arguing so I'm glad everyones got my back.

>>53553484

You did the math wrong.
6 lascannon teams equals 6 shots at BS 4+
3 hits.
Wounds on a 3+ for 2 wounds.

>>53553515
I think it's more a case of 7th edition having its enemies lol.

7th edition can go burn in hell for all I care.

>>53553388
I had no idea there were this many shills.

>>53553532
It's such bullshit honestly. I don't know why GW insist on hyping up chaos as a threat when they all look like malformed marinelets that look garbage when put next to any other model

>>53553545
of which 1/6 are saved and they do 3.5 damage on average a piece
so 5.8

>>53553545
They do D6 damage each though, so unless you're firing them at basic infantry they'll do way more than 2 wounds.

>>53553502
raptors got nerfed as well
lmao

Its pretty hot right now but I'd like to paint on the balcony. How much will the sun fuck up my paint?

>>53553518

> Since we're including orders, it's 6.48 wounds when rerolling 1's to hit.

Who said we were including orders?

How do you get 6.48 wounds from firing 6 shots?

I don't know what I should think about the changes to psykers.
I liked having all these Psychic abilities. I played eldar in essence because they are really cool to play as a psyker-warhost with all these different powers to try... now all I have is 6 powers for my craftworlders and 3 for my harlequins. These three mind you are way less cool than the shit the shadowseer could pull in 7th.
I like the mechanic chance but the lack of powers is really sad.

>>53553388
>voting on a system that isnt released vs one that has been out for 4 years

>>53553552
Anybody who bought or buys from GW is a shill. If you gave them any money, even in a roundabout way, you are enabling them.

>>53553264
This army sounds, would create quite a nice match against some horde army as the horde closes by and the battalion manoeuvres to not be outflanked / deal with deepstrikes

>>53553502
>Word bearers specifically mentioned under the legion rule explination
>No word bearer rules
>Word bearer rules likely to suck ass when/if they come because summoning is dogshit and that was all they got in 7

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>>53553576
>isnt released

>>53553505
Space marines, eldar and dark eldar also received significant rules updates and expansions to their completely lacking initial codexes over the course of the edition. Orks too, if you count the speed freaks variant.

Whenever anyone fondly remembers 3rd edition, they're thinking of its latter half. Initially it was received quite poorly.

>>53553567
There's this new stat called damage, anon.

>>53553520
>We've ALL seen some shit

>>53553567
>Who said we were including orders?
well if the conscripts don't get FRFSRF they get bumped down to 1.7 unsaved wounds per turn
and we're also forgetting to calculate in the point cost of a commisar in this whole thing
>How do you get 6.48 wounds from firing 6 shots?
they do d6 damage per shot

>>53553576
>isnt released

>>53553567
Because 3.7 includes 50 conscripts using orders to get Rapid Fire 2 before getting into range, granting 200 shots. Without orders, those conscripts are only scoring 1.85 wounds in the premise even within rapid fire range.

And you get those wounds because each lascannon deals D6 damage - or an average of 3.5 damage.

>>53553569
Things like psychic powers are just on hold untill the codex is released. Then GW said they'll expand the armies with more warlord traits, psychic powers, strategems, FOC, relics ...

>>53553556

Especially when a single set of sculpts (a Chaos Marine kit) could be made into both Chosen and Havocs with literally one extra sprue for special weapons.

I was especially ticked over no Abaddon model during the whole Gathering Storm arc. It's finally his big moment...and the Eldar and Imperium get a bunch of fancy new character models.

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>>53553576
>isnt released
you... don't have 8th ed yet do you anon...

>>53553585
>>53553602

>2 days of leaks is the same as a game being out and people playing multiple games

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No one is a match for my POWERFUL LIMBS

>>53553562
>>53553558

Alright, so you still did the math wrong.
Rerolling 1s on a 4+ to hit is a 7/12 chance to hit.
So (7/12)*(2/3)*(3.5) times 6 shots total is 8+(1/6) wounds

>>53553515
>30 votes
wew

>>53553589
And they're forgetting the monster that was the 3.5 chaos space marine codex.

>>53553613
You haven't played any games? Our local stocker has been running games since the Indexes arrived.

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>havoc launcher was nerfed and has no AP now

why'd they have to do that man

I will stay positive though. HL is 1 point cheaper for whatever reason. Plasma pistols are 7 points and can be used in CC so they seem alright now.

>>53553615
>Not the sexy bloated stomach version

>>53553624
best codex ever

>>53553625
How's it going?

>>53553576
>isnt released
Anon, the entire fucking edition leaked.

>>53553454
>>53553443
>>53553502
I would have been tolerant if GW gave all the Chaos marines access to Primaris-like troops.

A generic 10 man kit so we could start building something for the new era while using existing shoulders/helmets for conversion to our favored legion.

Instead its
>Loyalists... and Nurgle.. BUT NOONE ELSE >YOU HAVE TO WAIT BECAUSE REASONS

Why leave out so many?.. i dont fucking get it.

>>53553480
>>53553448
The skull is just the chassis for a drone.

>>53553615
>Ballsack in one hand
>Dick in the other

Sometimes it seems like the model designers like to try what they can get away with. Just like the numarins captain with a bone on his boner.

>>53553607
God, I hope so.
I want my Telepathy, my Daemonology and my Divination back goddamnit

i guess its time to suck it up and buy some scions and a taurox

>>53553634
Broken as fuck. Tyranids and Dark Eldar wipe armies off the table by turn 3.

Most people I know have gone back to 7th, because it's not a GW store and we're allowed to do that.

>>53553605

Those weapon teams also die at the drop of a hat, whereas clearing off 50 conscripts is incredibly difficult.

>>53553576
>isnt released
>isnt
>released

>>53553633
If you played CSM, sure.

You'll probably hear Eldarfags claim that their 7th edition codex was the best ever for years to come.

Nidbros, what units are you currently excited for?

I'm honestly surprised at Exocrines and Biovores being great. I know the vast majority of stuff is excellent now (even pyrovores aren't fucking shit, what the hell) but I'm curious what you're looking forward to.

That and I'm trying to fill the rest of the 500 points in my 'nid list and want to hear what other people think.

I tried to make a 1000 point list using the models I own, take a look!

DELDAR Out rider Detachment

HQ: 342 points
Archon w/ Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Phantasm Grenade
71p

Sslyth x4
176p

Venom w/ 2 splinter cannons
95p

FAST: 338 Points
Scourge x5 w/4 haywire blasters
118p

Reaver x3 w/ caltrops, blaster and agoniser
114p

Reaver x3 w/ caltrops, blaster and agoniser
114p

TROOPS: 211 points
Warriors x10 w/ splinter cannon
85p

Raider w/ disintegrator and shock prow
126p

ELITE: 95

Trueborn x5 w/ 2× dark Lance
95p

What do you guys think?

>>53553625
my local is a GW so we're not getting shit until saturday when the official preorder starts

>>53553589

SM and eldar only had an initial codex.

>>53553607
How about special rules?

>>53553556
>>53553611

My favorite part was when Guilliman was revealed and had a dead Black Legionnaire on his base. Hilarious irony that gud-looking Chaos models are now just part of a loyalist base.

>>53553666
If someone playing Nids or Deldar offers you a game, decline.

If someone playing Guard or Orks offers you a game, don't bother, you'll win.

>>53553664

P.s this list comes to 994 points in 8th whereas in 7th it was 956 points. I think reavers and venoms will fall out of favour due to their high cost...

>>53553275

I can't get over not being able to give my inquisitor power armor or my acolytes at least carapace

And then they go and make acolytes 3 wounds each which is probably better than a 4+ save and the 2+ Look Out Sir is better than a 3+

So I don't know how to feel

Except any non terminator Ordo Malleus inquisitor might as well just take Coteaz and rename him since he's a straight upgrade for laughably little cost

>>53553664
Swap out the Haywire for Blasters or Dark Lances and take the Talon instead of Caltrops and you'll be fine
Just don't expect to hold on to Objs

>>53552921
Guilliman got Cawl to begin work on them back in M32 iirc because he knew that things could and most likely would get worse and with progress stagnating he wanted elites ready for when shit really hit the fan. It took Cawl thousands of years to get a viable improvement over the current geneseed that wasn't heavily detrimental to it's recipients. He orders call to bring the first batch online when the warp storm happened.

>>53553184
Anyone?

>>53553662
Mawlocs are still absurdly cheap for what they bring. Mortal wounds and then an unreasonable number of attacks because you're one inch away that forms a giant distraction for people to shoot at all for just 105 points.

Carnifexes are cheap again too.

>>53553688

Why swap haywire out? They have a bolter equivalent profile against infantry I figured they're the best all rounder

>>53553680
mfw playing scions and I've been getting nothing but buffs in 8th

>declining matches

or i could not be a raging fag and just play them to see where they are and arn't strong

inb4 tyranids are the new tau

>>53553676
That's nothing compared to how much time there was between the excellent looking Thousand Sons rubric remains in the Thunderwolf sprue, meant to be glued on a base, and the actual release of plastic rubrics.

That was just rubbing salt in the wound.

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>>53553615
>None can stand before my FOURTY SHOTS

Flesh-hive is gonna be the shit, brilliant counter to anyone deep-striking in

>>53553667
>forgetting craftworlds
>forgetting the entire index astartes line of rules expansions
>forgetting all the expanded rules and errata in white dwarf people had to photocopy/cart around with their books
they did not only have an initial codex

>>53553698
It's more the fact that this Ed so far looks to make Darklight weapons king
In terms of power it goes Darklight > Heat > Haywire = Poision > Shredder/Stinger

My 2k list is dripping with high -AP

>>53553607
Anon trying to reason that is a bit pointless right now. People have seen all the indexes, they think that is ALL the ed (like >>53553635
this autist) and they have cast swift judgement. Everything is doomed nothing is saved burn your armies feel the butthurt.

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>>53553650
Okay? They're still attacking from 48" away instead of 12", they aren't slogging around 6" a turn while most things are much faster, and I'm not worried about a small horde of genestealers jumping on them and ruining the effective potential of 180-fucking-points of models (with commissar) instantly.

Conscripts have their place, anon, I won't argue that. But trying to use them for hunting big game and denying other sources for hunting big game is remarkably stupid. I mean, 9 models of Mortar HWT will knock out 8.75 of your conscripts every turn without Orders and assuming you pass every morale test, and the lot of them will only cost 81 pts.

>>53553662
Carnifex, Harpies, mawlocs, deathleaper maybe. (all besides classic swarmlings)

>>53553402

1ksons and daemon players have not seen this yet. They still believe they can play with magic haha

new tyranid list:
20 biovores
thoughts?

>>53553174
It doesn't really make sense to have the point cost be the same for different units either though. Like, buying a powerfist on a Chaos lord (WS2+ A4 and higher survivability) costs the same as getting one for a champion (WS3+ A2).

>>53553700
Trust me. There is nowhere they're not strong. I could make a bad tyranid list and table people.

>>53553729
you could plop a commissar into your conscripts, and just try to keep the enemy repeatedly disengaging to deny them their firepower, while you use the HWT to blast things

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>>53553402
To absolutely cuck all drop pod fags

Based gw

>>53553713
So unless I'm burning all my models right now I'm doing it wrong ?

Maybe I'm too happy that Rubrics are actually usefull for a change.

>>53553740
I look forward to it, sounds like penitence after the hilarity of respawning scions and tauroxes in 7th

>>53553735
Need HQs.

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>>53553729
And those mortars will be doing it from entirely out of sight, 48" away, and entirely without fear of retaliation.

God damn I fucking love mortars. Why are they so fucking cheap now?

>>53553741
That's the point. Conscripts have their place, but so does other stuff.

>>53553502
>>53553581
>legion rules released
>get my nurgle army, nice spread of bikes and havocs
>"Y-You Nurgle WAAC fags are going to get it when 8th drops!"
>we end up becoming the face of chaos
Drinking in the tears, tastes good.

This RICH sickly arouma of dispair.

I've been busy so I'm just now hearing about 8th edition news.

I gather that there was a bunch of nerfs. How is my Knight household list looking?

>>53553680
>just handing victory to your enemy because you're too incompetent to play your army without spamming riptides
Classic taufag

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So, as a Guard player i have two, precisely two concerns about my army right now.

1. If veterans have better BS and can stock more special weapons, and infantry squads can't platoon up, what s the point of infantry squads at all? If you want mechanized you want veterans, and if you want to bubble wrap or blob you want conscripts. Where does baseline infantry fit in?

2. If we get a codex update, please please please give the exterminator heavy 8. It doesn't deserve the nerf! YES I KNOW THIS ISN'T A QUESTION, YOU PORTED EVERYTHING ELSE GREAT BUT WHY WHY WHY DIDN'T YOU PORT MY BELOVED POMPOM CORRECTLY.

>>53553752
swarmlord

>>53553710

Alright if I drop the reaver agonisers I can afford blasters on 4 scourges, why change between grav talon and caltrops? More wounds with the caltrops no?

>>53553710
I wouldn't neglect the poison, with transports getting more expensive and large blasts getting fewer hits most of the time, we may see more footslogging infantry this edition. I'm thinking of using splinter cannons as the heavy weapon for every gunboat squad, for example.

I didn't want Primarchs before, but since I've decided to paint Imperial Fist Primaris and ally Custodes (yeah I know they're a bit gimped now) I really fucking want Dorn to lead these crusading motherfuckers

>>53553746
BURRRRRNNN THEEEEM

No seriously, just feels like some armies got their playstyle slightly changed so the old way to play them is no more or sub-par so it feels underpowered or unflavoursome for some people.

I do think that 1K sons need their own unique psychic abilities and I am hopeful they'll get something in the corresponding codex. I guess I am one of the few optimistic retards in this thread

>>53553693
>>53553732
The only thing about the mawloc I don't like is that the attacks are just strength user, AP0 and only do 1 damage. Maybe looking at carnifexes has spoiled me but does it lack melee punch?

>>53553735
Get deepstriked to death

>>53553755
I'm glad mortars are cheap now, I always fielded HWTs with them and they ended up being wasted points in all games.
I'm absolutely loving 8th edition so far.

>>53553729

>Okay? They're still attacking from 48" away instead of 12",
At least they can move without losing accuracy

>they aren't slogging around 6" a turn while most things are much faster,
Your super heavy tanks can't run from a board full of conscripts.

>and I'm not worried about a small horde of genestealers jumping on them and ruining the effective potential of 180-fucking-points of models (with commissar) instantly.
The conscripts can just take the losses, fall back, and let someone else shoot them
The weapon teams die instantly.

Did you think about this at all before posting it?
You gave another reason why conscripts are better.

>Conscripts have their place, anon, I won't argue that. But trying to use them for hunting big game and denying other sources for hunting big game is remarkably stupid. I mean, 9 models of Mortar HWT will knock out 8.75 of your conscripts every turn without Orders and assuming you pass every morale test, and the lot of them will only cost 81 pts.

Mortars have nothing to do with this. Stop deflecting.

>>53552698
A lot of stuff in the daemons codex as far as wargear just isn't costed. Burning chariots can take blue horrors for no cost ostensibly. Soul grinders and exalted alluresses can exchange wargear but their point profiles just say already included.

All in all it actually amounts to daemons getting some point reductions even when receiving ostensible buffs to units.

>>53553769
No bikes for you, though.

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>>53553773

>knight player

you roll for damage after the save roll has been failed

>>53553710
So blasters, dark lances and disintergrator cannons?

What are the bad choices in the codex, are wytches still shit?

>>53553778
some quick mental math hammer says that right now, the BC and AC are identical against MEQs, with the BC having a slight upper hand against other targets

so, it does need a buff, since it cant handle hordes better nor does it focus fire better, winning out only in reliable damage, which could be better than superior swingy damage

but heavy 8 is insane in comparison, it would be hilariously superior to the BC, and negate any other weapon in your arsenal

Codex: Q'Orl when?

>>53553778
Like always, vets hit better than guardsmen but cost more. Like always, guardsmen hit better than conscripts but cost more. If +1 pt for +1 BS and access to weapons doesn't sound like a bad trade to you, run guardsmen over conscripts. Vets, however, are elites now, so they take an entirely different slot that isn't troops.

>>53553811
>frog poster
What can I say anon, I like big stompy robots

>>53553773

It can literally be raped by hundreds of conscripts with lasguns while you pick off maybe 12-15 a turn.
You will be tabled by pretty much any list by turn 4 at the latest anyway.

>>53553820
It's all pretty good.

>>53553800
That's always been the point though, they're good at eating things but their limbs leave much to desire.

>>53553778
>1. If veterans have better BS and can stock more special weapons, and infantry squads can't platoon up, what s the point of infantry squads at all? If you want mechanized you want veterans, and if you want to bubble wrap or blob you want conscripts. Where does baseline infantry fit in?

Infantry squads are cheap as fuck, meaning you can fill out a lot of Troops slots for almost no cost, and fill Heavy and Elite slots with HWTs and special weapon squads, all for dirt cheap.

You're going to have a billion Command Points, and orders that enter automatically, up to 18" if you bother with vox casters (and you should).

It's actually a huge upgrade.

>>53553785
>Unit get's hit with a MW if enemy retreats vs MW when charging
It depends on what you're using them for - i use my reaver as fast anti-chargers, T5 due to +1 drugs

>>53553820
There are no real "bad" choices
Wyches and Hellions are good - Mandrake can be amazing in large groups
Reavers and Splinter cannons got nerfed
Heat Lances now seem to be anti TEQ

>>53553778
>1.
Troop tax to get a fuckload of command points
>2.
Could be an oversight some retard in the design team did, could also be that this retard is clinically retarded and actually intended to nerf the exterminator, either way GW will never fix it. Jump on the punisher looser, we're going to BRRRRT

>>53553196
Here's a tip. Just print out your points pages. It's not all that "fiddly" after that.

>>53553800
Crowd control? if you manage to burrow again you can pop up again somewhere useful (different blob).

Also just realised it doesn't have the Swallow whole ability. which unit did have it then?

>>53553805
Wait, so daemons are still OP?
Not nerfed in to the ground?

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>>53553804
You aren't even worth talking to. Never mind, I'm going to bed.

Play with 250 conscripts, anon. No one will stop you.

>>53553834
>literally need 400 bolter shots to kill a stompa
>knight is even bigger, with more wounds and better saves
technically possible, but i really doubt you will get anywhere without lascannons to back up your conscripts

>>53553565
it will dry before you get it on the model. look like shit

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>>53553820
Wyches are amazing now for one reason and one reason only (don't listen to anyone else, their reason is not real reason).

Hexatrixes are free. Agonizers are 4 pts.

Now, run fucking wild on them, you blood sluts.

>>53553689
What always amuses me about the whole "we need Primaris reinforcement" angle is that the IG/IN are the backbone of the Imperium's fighting capability. 95% of the fighting is done by Joe Nobody while Astartes, game changing as they can be in a warzone, are too few and far between to realistically prosecute wars on the scale needed.

While Primaris is a step towards helping that, a far more effective decision in these "desperate times" would be to remove some of the compartmentalization of the IG that has been hamstringing them after Ribbit Gorillaman. I understand why it was done but he has been peeling back a lot of his initial codex decrees as of late and the IG/IN being a cohesive fighting force would fix 80% of the problems they have. Actually having regiments being combined forces instead of relying on a separate armour regiment under command of another guy to support your infantry only regiment (that may not have even been deployed in the correct place) without air coverage because the Navy commanders decided they wanted more strike craft in their Dictators instead of bringing your air support.

The IG would be capable of having what they needed, where they needed, and when they need it without rolling the dice on the labyrinthine Munitorum to shuffle every little piece around. They could retain some of the separation to cut back on the rebellion risk but this structure was designed by Bobby G during a militant downsizing in the Imperium and has been a plank in its eye ever since he got put on ice.

>>53553755
ehh heavy weapons teams are very vulnerable and a single dedicated enemy artillery piece will most likely knock all of them out in a turn
i feel like hwt are adequately priced as they are now
the future might prove me wrong though , haven't really seen what other heavy weapon team esque units are priced like for other factions

>>53553218
Well they didn't do that so datasheet wouldn't have to be changed whenever they update points. Just the few pages where points are located. Power levels on the other hand won't be updated for balance.

>>53553859
No, they are nerfed to fuck.

>>53553790
I like the Tson changes

Exalted Sorcerers are cheaper than Sorcerers and are beatsticks
Scarabs with a cannon cost as much as they did bare in 7th
While rubrics are a nice 20ppm
Diet Smite™ i'm hesitant to use because half the unit dies to the resulting perils but it's a good thing to have up my sleeve

Hopefully their rules, if they ever get them, will have a way to mitigate perils

>>53553850

I must have misread the text on caltrops; I though it was mortal wounds to the enemy when the reavers fall back as a parting gift.

>>53553883

How does this force 95% of the playerbase (SM players) to buy more models?

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>>53553319
exact same feeling bro, i dont know how im not gonna buy anything for atleast another 6months

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>>53553733
>chaos can easily take psykers with full access to 4 different tables
>Meaning while other armies are restricted to basically having 3 powers max, they can manifest as many as 12 a turn before smites

>>53553630
Havoc launchers suck now, don't bother with them.

Pretty much all blast weapons look terrible, desu.

>>53553357
>Who are these people who thought 7th was balanced? What armies did they play???

GKs and Eldar, I guess.

Brb with my army of invisible, fortuned, guided Seer Council on jetbikes.

As for imbalance, the only thing I really see hurting is melee / assault units that can't deep strike / teleport / infiltrate. A lot of good ones can. A lot of good melee units CAN'T deep strike as well, and IMO it really depends on how the terrain is set up at your LGS and what scenario you're playing as to how effective you can be at melee.

If you're playing a LGS that leaves a lot of open space or charge lanes, it's going to be harder. If you play somewhere with more obscuring / LOS blocking terrain, it'll be easier to get in. But there's still overwatch to get through, and even though it specifically says "only 6s" there didn't seem to be anything limiting the number of shots?

That would be pretty bad trying to charge an assault cannon or something getting full shots at you...

>>53553850

What makes wyches and Hellions good? I'm just not seeing it other than for Hellions that they're cheaper than reavers now.

Also what's your verdict on beasts? I'm liking the idea of razorwing chaff but the rest seems lacking

>>53553876
>people called me mad when I have my wytches and trueborn sargents agonisers
But wait, can a character climb in a transport with another squad still or does the succubus walk?

>>53553893
Guess they just made them more than a one trick pony.

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>>53553913
>Pretty much all blast weapons look terrible, desu.
Not fucking MORTARS.

>>53553275
Just the inquistors themselves though. Noone else has authority. It's more to let you "Ally" them into those forces.

>>53553685
Yeah I'm with you on that actually. The loss of options feels weird but then the buffs and the vehicles ... I think where we stand will only be figured out once play starts

>>53553910
I'm talking fluff only not marketing. You can do both just fine in universe to sell Primaris. It just would make sense to also unfuck the military as a whole at the same time.

>>53553181
Nah. Watch "Winters SEO" mate.