/hhg/ - Horus Heresy General - Painting Sorcery Edition

The Geno Five-Two guys were at Warhammerfest and got the impression that the “7.5” rulebook was really just going to be 7th edition with as few changes possible. They don’t like that idea, but that’s the sense they got from whoever was giving the presentation – it feels very stopgap to them.

First for Fourth

I'm here breadanon. Didn't die but I'm working hard on my last days of uni. I'll make some new banners as promised

>>53537554
Please make "Horus Heresy" easy to see at thumbnail size.

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>>53537554
Affirmative. Best of luck with your work dude.

>>53537535
Told you any changes would be for the worse. FW can't write rules for shit.
All I wanted was 8E's save rules reeeeeeeee

Are any of you going to try 8th edition for Horus Heresy games anons? I'm so fucking tired of 7th ed bullshit

>>53537748
>I'm so fucking tired of 7th ed bullshit
What part exactly?

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Mostly done with 6 twin-claw Terminators, drybrushed and washed for maximum Slayer Sword.

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>>53537821
No transport and at 2500 points they're gonna get rekt pretty quickly. Ah well, as long as The Enemy isn't destroying my Iron Havocs it's all good.

>>53537795
Psychic phase is absolutely absurd (I usually play against 40k armies so that counts). Also it's worth mentioning that 7E is impossible to teach to new players without making them bleed from most of their holes

>>53537614
>>53537604
Any ideas for the banners? I have a couple of ideas involving ultramarine and word bearer-posting and also some classic iron warrior and alpha legion memes. Suggestions?

>>53537942
SW/TS hypocrisy and/or retardation? Something with Sisters of Silence?

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>>53537748
I'll at least give it a shot for shits and giggles. So far 8th is looking like it's actually well thought out, despite what all the shitposters keep saying.
>>53537795
Idk about him, but for me it's a lot of small things, small things that I've become increasingly aware of as rules for 8th are revealed. Transport rules, cover saves, barrage/blast weapons, there being 8million rules scattered across a few dozen different books (more of a 40k problem than 30k, but still an issue). Hell, even in HH alone, point costs for a number of units could use some work (i.e. make Tacs viable again), and there is everyone's love/hate relationship with Armored Ceramite. 7th isn't unplayably bad, but it is certainly bloated and doesn't run as efficiently as it could.

>>53537821
>>53537847
They look a little odd as a flat color, but if you wash and highlight those claws you'll be golden

>>53537847
>>53537821
Looking good man, make them some god tier bases with lots of mud and toxic shit specially made for the finest iron warrior taste

>>53538027
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the bleak paintjob but the claws, base, eyes and some of the hazard stripes need more work. A lot of that wasn't really visible after the drybrush, but really popped after I washed them.

Not sure on base theme though. Mud/trench is fairly common and might look nice with the slightly cool look they have, but I'm not sure yet.

>>53538003
>Hell, even in HH alone, point costs for a number of units could use some work (i.e. make Tacs viable again), and there is everyone's love/hate relationship with Armored Ceramite
FW could either pull 7.5E, keept to regular 7E or move to 8E and this would still be a problem they wouldn't solve. It'll always be "lol buy veterans".
Forever.
Or as long as AP3 artillery is that common and you need to bring Fast or Heavy special transports to move regular toops of 20.
Aka, always.

>>53538003
Nice mini, btw. Can we see more of that cape?>>53537821
Makes me want to edit them playing balalaikas with their claws.

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>>53537942
Shameless request for an EC banner. Maybe Loyalists (perhaps with Rylanor and Tarvitz) on one side and Traitors (Fulgrim, Eidolon, and some /tg/ daemonettes) on the other.

Some more suggestions so I'm not full of shit: IWvsIF, Night Lords with one Guardsman in the middle, an Angelus hype banner, and if you're feeling crafty, maybe even a Mechanicum banner.

>>53538064
Now there's an idea... >>53538076
I'm not 100% sold on muddy bases, but with some green toxic sludge they could look good. Stirland mud with some Nurgle Rot and green wash on parts of the rot/mud?

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>>53538136
Here you go, anon :^)

>>53538136
I was thinking of getting a lot of different legion's marines looking at a SoS while the Emperor's Children look at Fulgrim's butt at the other side. Does that please you or is it a shitty idea?

>>53538160
Make some experiments first. I haven't tried anything like that as I just use Vallejo black lava, rocks, skulls and grey paint on them

>>53538284
It tickles my fancy

>>53538405
I'm a bit busy atm but I'll do my Dreadnought's base and post pictures later of how it turned out. Keep in mind that I usually skip the bases because goddammit, I just can't visualise and execute an idea on those fuckers.

>>53537535
All that's needed is a grenade change and possibly a psychic rework.

I could see multi grenades coming back, but psychics maybe not. We'll see soon enough.

>>53537821
>>53537847
Brother, your nails are faaabulous.

>>53538520
Probably they'll return to the old Ld checks for psychic power mechanic. Like how Sevatar's original rules were written.
Everything else will be unchanged and as broken as it was.

I was mostly looking forward to 8th because everything would have to be recosted and it might’ve fixed a lot of the units we don’t see often. And not just the units, but upgrades – they’re generally cheaper in Inferno and that’s not cool. It also would’ve removed the absurd difference between Monstrous Creature and Vehicle(Walker) – seriously, why is a Castellax so different to shoot at vs. a Dreadnought? Psychic powers are obviously a mess, I’m not in love with how reserves work, and I’ve never been in love with the AP* system.

On the other hand, I like 7th’s initiative to hit, morale rules, and the way FW kept 6th edition’s only-troops-score rule. That last one has a huge effect on the game and I hope they keep it no matter which edition’s rules they adopt.

>>53538887
Regarding the difference between MCs and dreads, I like that now (rather in 8E) both suffer decreased performance as they keep losing wounds, instead of MCs bring 100% fine and then dropping dead.

How do you guys like your tactical support squads?

I think I prefer Volkite Chargers over Flamers for a mobile squad; I'd give them chainswords as well. Not sure about plasma or melta because veteran squads can do it better (most of them have to take combi-weapons, but you get that veteran skill and they weren't likely to live long anyway).

For a static squad it's rotor cannons or volkite calivers, with the latter being obviously better. You can have twice as many shots at longer range if you take a heavy support squad with culverins, but you lose scoring and that's 335 points vs. 225 for a squad of 10. It's a lot less painful to lose the latter.

>>53540623
I like them with either flamers for piling up wounds, or with melta/plasma guns for crippling MEQ/TEQ squads and being almost guaranteed to chip away heavily at hordes/MC.

Problem is in my IW list, a lot of space is taken by Iron Havocs and Assault Terminators. In the future, I might drop some of them for more support squads, more dudes in the squads and a Rhino to shelter them from infantry weapons.

I shuffled around some points on my IW list, and switched out the smaller Iron Havoc squad for a maxed squad of Seekers. While the list is now far more vulnerable to Spartans and massed armour in general, I 1) wanted my Vigilator to have some friends and 2) liked the idea of the Seekers a lot. Seeing as my army fluff is that they're a probing assault/line infantry kind of Company, artillery is kind of eeh. For larger lists I add some more FA basically, to really hammer home the "find a weak spot and hold it until dedicated assault dudes show up" schtick.

HQ:
Legion Centurion, volkite charger
- 60 points
Legion Centurion, Legion Vigilator Consul
- 85 points
Elites:

Legion Terminator Squad, 10x Cataphractii Terminators, lightning claw on Sergeant, 2x Terminators w. heavy flamer & single lightning claw, 7x pairs of lightning claws
- 465 points
Apothecarion Detachment, 2x Apothecary
- 90 points
Apothecarion Detachment, 2x Apothecary
- 90 points

Troops:
Legion Tactical Squad, 20x Legionnaires
- 225 points
Legion Tactical Squad, 20x Legionnaires
- 225 points
Legion Tactical Support Squad, 5x plasma gun
- 175 points

Fast Attack:
Legion Seeker Squad, 10x Seekers, melta bombs on Strike Leader
- 260 points

Heavy Support:
Iron Havoc Support Squad, 10x Havocs, 10x lascannon
- 460 points
Iron Havoc Support Squad, 10x Havocs, 10x missile launcher, augury scanner on Sergeant
- 365 points

Wait, even the Terminators are on foot? Who's going to allow them to assault their units? I'd replace them with Siege Tyrants, personally. Two squads of five, one guarding the Havos and another walking right behind the tactical squads. Likewise, don't count on being able to use the Seekers' "Marked for Death" ability because the target will usually be more mobile.

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>this kills the armor autists

>>53542309
Yeah, but that's a pre-Heresy army. By which I mean, pre-any Heresy-era models existing.

>>53542303
The Terminators are a combination of deterrent, bait and points fodder. I'm not super competitive and they look good.

>>53542355
Hasn't stopped them before.

>>53542358
I'd consider splitting them into two 5-man squads. Better odds of making it into combat, or at least spreading the deterrent effect.

Not sure I see the point of the Seekers. Are they really better than 5 Terminators, 20 Tacticals, or a Support squad?

What is there actually to hate about 30k Roboute? From the books I'm getting the impression he's really trying while everyone seems to be upset(jealous?) of or about him for some reason.

Especially after Calth and Nuceria he seems to be Punished Roboute.

>>53543057
Mostly it's that he was adopted by a wealthy and powerful family. Definitely had the easiest upbringing and was very close to his adoptive mother. Alexander the Great inherited his position too, so it doesn't guarantee you'll grow up soft.

Then we see Guilliman think he knows better than everyone else when he writes the Codex Astartes. It's entirely possible that he does, but that's not a move that makes friends. That's what kept him from being Warmaster - he didn't have the people skills that Horus had. Imagine him trying to tell Angron where to go next.

Oh, and he seemed a little too eager to build a new Imperium of his own.

But it's not the same hate as in 40k at all, with its terribly written Mary Sue fluff. This is just friendly ribbing.

>>53543194
well he wasn't eager to build an empire seperate from the Imperium, he was trying to build THE Imperium. He didn't have people skills with other primarchs because 17/20ths of the primarchs had even less people skills. Roboute was doing exceptionally well with regular humans. And Angron isn't really a good example, since in he was a braindead retard who didn't comprehend or care what the Great Crusade was even about, beyond bloodshed and slaughter.

Just downloaded The First Heretic to listen to on my commute to work tomorrow, lads. What should I expect?

>8e's core rules seem nice
>but the leaked army lists look like shit

>7.5 will probably be slapped together and the army books poorly proofread
>despite this, will likely be more balanced overall
>yet smaller communities and harder to expand/start multiple armies (plus it's like 3 factions)

Why can't we have FW just write everything with 8e core rules and vehicle facings? Pls?

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>>53543473
Heresy

>>53543594
because you touch yourself at night

>>53537543

>tfw big guns never tire

>>53543685
but anon, I only touch myself during the day

>>53543304
He was the logistics expert. The accountant. The nerd. The other primarchs were jocks. Of course they weren't going to like him.

If you mean that we, the players have a problem with Guilliman... I don't see it, other than bitterness from the UM getting too much attention in 40k that former players bring with them.

>>53543727
its always night somewhere anon.

and slaneesh is always watching you...

>>53543746
Sexy.

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How viable is a "Pride of the Leigon" list with Death Guard where I take lots of Death Shroud and use Crysos Morturg to infiltrate? Am I going to need transports for every group of termies I don't infiltrate? Or can I foot slog them while the infiltrated squads proceed to fuck shit up?

>>53543808
>Am I going to need transports for every group of termies I don't infiltrate?
If they're not shooty, yes.

>>53543473
First Heretic actually made me really dislike Lorgar where before I thought he was mildly ok.

I just found a youtube channel - complete with patreon - where a guy essentially reads out the lex and wiki entries on things, mispronouncing almost everything in a thick accent, while the videos just scroll though ripped art, and he has thousands and thousands of hits on each video.
Fuck this hhg, let's start a youtubes victimbucks ripoff scheme of our own.

>>53544481
Please share, this sounds like it's worth a listen.

And yes, please start an in-universe fake news channel. Report the Siege of Terra from Erebus's point of view.

>>53544518
It's called onemindsyndicate, he's knocked dozens of the things out in the last two months from the looks of it.

>>53544481
This wasn't nearly as funny as I thought it would be. I thought it would be intentionally bad but this is just stupid.

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>>53543685
THE BIG GUNS NEVER TIRE

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>>53543735
>Tfw you're the chaddest Chad to ever Chad but your logistician brother has to offer you the throne of his auxiliary empire or he ends up looking like a traitor, and you not only want to ditch everything and go to Terra to help the real Imperium, but can only wonder how Roboute skipped Rangdan and other important events because his main priority was to be the fall back plan. As if he knew this was going to happen.

>>53544481
This is my favourite HH lore channel. Done from the perspective of an in-universe chronicler. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el1Pco48ud0

>>53543735
I'd honestly say that ol' Robbie was the Preppy, and Perturbo was the Nerd (he even had bouts of nerd-rage).

>>53544891
Does he also just read out lex and wiki articles verbatim?

>>53544894
rob is the good nerd, pert is the bad nerd

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Solar Aux question, was MaSade ever given a model?

If not I guess I'll just use pic-related?

>>53544990
>>53544891
Never mind, I checked, it's a bit of that but mostly reading out black book fluff over screengrabs of same. Better quality than the first and at least he isn't asking for money for reading out something someone else wrote over a slideshow of other people's pictures.

>>53545055
So far, just like every FW guard character no.

it bugs me, maybe they just don't find the idea interesting or worry they'll be too generic?

>>53545055
Nope, no model for him.

>>53545101
>>53545105

Eh, fuck it: I'll take any excuse to break out the Big M.

I don't think there's anything explicitly post-HH about his model, either.

>>53545156
the chest aquila isn't exactly kosher, but I guess that depends on how loose you consider the definition of "aquila"

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>>53545101

Didn't Aevos Jovan get pic-related? I don't think he's a generic medicae (the Fabius Bile-esque stitched skull cap in particular).

>>53545175

Really? I thought it was a common symbol before, although the symbolism/interpretation changed after the HH.

>>53543304
>And Angron isn't really a good example, since in he was a braindead retard who didn't comprehend or care what the Great Crusade was even about, beyond bloodshed and slaughter.
He knew exactly what the Great Crusade was about: Exerting the Emperor's control over the galaxy as a whole, through force where necessary or expedient.

In a way he understood it better than the Primarchs.

>>53544624
Idk it's like listening to Boreale read a FW book, complete with all their writing cliches.
>>53544481
>Fuck this hhg, let's start a youtubes victimbucks ripoff scheme of our own.
How?

>>53545175
>>53545255
The aquila with upswept wings is how the Palatine Aquila is usually defined. The Emperor's Children were the only LEGION allowed to use it. No word on non-legionnaires.

It's likely that for a human to wear it he'd need one of the following:
a) the Emperor's personal favor, like if he did something noteworthy on one of the rare occasions when the Emperor was present as well, or
b) he's a pompous ass

Either one is fun and fluffy.

>>53544814
>Tfw you're the chaddest Chad to ever Chad

That does sum him up.

>>53545368
Chill. That's not a Palatine Aquila in the first place, just a regular Aquila.
And MaSade is described as wearing an ambulator frame, which is a life support exoskeleton like Kor Phareon's, if the name didn't give it away.
I love how, at his granddaughter'em funeral he declared the Agathon rulers' inaction as open treachery to the Emperor and gunned those fuckers down Punisher style.
He'd be good friends with Dorn.

>>53545671
>Chill. That's not a Palatine Aquila in the first place, just a regular Aquila.
What's the difference, if not the sweep of the wings?

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>>53545686
Mostly the angle of the base and how it forms a diamond with protusions at the sides. Lots of straight lines.

>>53545671
>Chill. That's not a Palatine Aquila in the first place, just a regular Aquila.
that's why i said it depends on how loose you consider the definition of aquila

I'm an old hard liner, and 30k stuff with any aquila on the breast sets off a little autism alarm bell in my mind.

>>53542309
>Pre-Heresy Death Guard
>Mortarion is a daemon prince

I AMMM TRIGGERREEEEDDDDDD

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>>53546533
For the record, before HH1 and HH4, how did you think Mortarion was like?
I'm going to tell you how I didn't think he looked like.
I didn't think he had a bathtub for a backpack.

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>>53546560
>how did you think Mortarion was like?
Well, I thought he had a GODDAMN MASK!

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>>53547117
This is best Mortarion.

>>53546560
This is the worst Primarch model by a mile. The weapon is super awkward looking and the pose is stupidly static.

>>53543808
Pride of the Legion is generally a fairly awful Rite of War. Do whatever you can to not play it because it has gigantic drawbacks.

>>53544417
The manner in which he pisses away Argel Tal and his most loyal legionaries is despicable. Selling thousands of people to daemons to sate your curiosity makes Horus look like Vulkan.

>>53542309

Why would Mentors trigger me?

>>53547961
>This is the worst Primarch model by a mile.
But anon that's not Lorgar

>>53546560
Something about the legs on that model rubs me the wrong way. Not sure if it's the space-age armour with fucking exposed chainmail at the joints, or something off with the posing. Or both.

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>>53547961
>The weapon is super awkward looking
Such are power scythes
>and the pose is stupidly static.
Because he's using a two handed weapon
That's why Fulgrim is jumping with a one-handed sword but Ferrus is swinging the hammer with both feet on the ground
Also, worst model is Lorgar.

>>53542355
No excuse. The armour Marks still existed in the lore. Convert or go the fuck home, faggots.

>>53548310

The coolest shit weapon is the pole-flail.

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>>53548370
O boi.
This is like the Caedere weapons I read in my british science fiction.

>>53548068
>>53548310
Lorgar is a close second but nobody looks as bad as this goofy retard.

>>53548310
>>53548068
I like Lorgar's model

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>>53548292
Looks very exposed because the underarmour was given detail. For other primarchs and characters bending their legs, there's only fold of a darker rubber-like undersuit beneath the armour.
Plus, chainmail seems to be the style they picked for the DG. Remember Mortarion made his armour on his own. Not that he needs it anyway, a Sallie blasted him with a meltagun once and his armour began to melt on him, so he bisected the offending marine.

>>53537535
really intelligent source right there

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Working on my IF Moritat. Anything you'd add?

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Also working on an IF Master of Signals; anything else to add or change?

>>53548584
Now that I think about it, it's not just that. Like Magnus, the legs look really spindly, and in Morty's case, the armour plates also look too rigid, like they weren't actually made to fit a human body (or superhuman, whatever). Other models in the Space Marine range manage to pull off the smooth, fixed armour plate look, but he doesn't, despite his armour clearly being based on elements of both Mk II and IV.

>>53549888
i'd use a model that isnt so blatantly iron-handy, for starters
i get that immortals are great conversion fodder, but thats just lazy

>>53549888
>>53549900
Your resin appears to be partially cream cheese.
Aside from that I like your poses for being slightly different, but objectively they are undynamic and boring. However how you paint it could totally make that irrelevant.
I'm not entirely sure about your parts choice but again, painting can obliterate that.

>>53549959
>Chunky MKIII

Didn't know the Iron Hands had the exclusive rights to that anons armor

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>>53549971
Thanks!

Also not sure why my resin is so weird looking. My latest FW order has some weird shades to it; especially on my Deredeo

>>53550031
>extensive cybernetics
>the martian ribbed pattern all over the legs and chest
it doesnt look fisty mang, thats the truth

>>53550031
He's right. The extensive gear pattern looks strange. If he was a techmarine I think you could get away with it.

>>53550112
>>53550060
Not the anon with the Moritat, but that model doesn't have any bionics or anything like it. It just looks like reinforced battle plate or artificer armor.

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>>53550163
It doesn't need bionics to be IH. Only the IH and Mechanicum use the cog-wheel as an aesthetic design, so it looks out of place on an IF unit. Unless he gets creative with it, it'll look a bit weird.

>>53547117
So when he took it off, did he die?

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>>53550192
Fists can get away with it due to the crennellation-like effect imo. He just needs to paint it well. Without the model being canary yellow and with a Fists logo it stands out.
And although it isn't raised IH style, I do always think of the old IA Fist with his crenallated line up-armoured suit.

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Also started work on my Praetor; thoughts as well? I know he needs plenty of cleaning.

>>53550391
The helmet's too bald. Need something

>>53550391

IMO, rotate sword downward a little, turn head other direction, and get a badass shield bash pose. Unfortunately the cape won't follow that motion.

>>53550046
>that fucking left missile pod

The sprue was connected there, wasn't it.

>>53550391
Twist the head to look forward, try to swap the sword to a downwards hold. Make it look like he just took a titanic hit to the shield and is about to gut a motherfucker. Also >>53550405 is right, give him something on his helmet, the dogface doesnt suit him as it is

>>53550391
Very dynamic, though he's doing a video game emote; think about why you'd be raising both your sword AND shield like that, and if it isn't that you're blocking incoming fire while turning around to wave forward troops which means your model will be presented on the tale shield forward and head looking back at you) you have a rule of cool pose.
Not that there's anything wrong with rule of cool if that's your thing. It does look cool. Personally I'd try and make it a bit more realistic.

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>>53550505
>think about why you'd be raising both your sword AND shield like that

>>53550391
>tartaros helmet in cataphracti armor
What did you mean by this?

>>53550586
That tartaros helmet is baller?

so concensus is the gauntlet on a custards tribune?
such a shame, spear looks badass

>>53550615
Spear is better for immediate unit slaughtering and most challenges.

Gauntlet is made for when he's in a squad or high toughness models/vehicles.

I've run both and Spear is more versatile

>>53550586

You mean just like all Justaerin terminators?

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>>53550615
>>53550635
how'd you guys model your paragon spears? I just finished mine tonight and used the haft of the vexilla pole and glued one of the daggers to it and painted it all power weapony. I like the result but I'm sure you professionals on HHG did other stuff.

>>53550635
hes my unit for dealing with primarchs or similar mainly.
I've modeled up 3 Haeteron with gauntlets to run around with him. should i give him the spear you reckon?

>>53550692
Spear for sure.

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>>53550688
I just used this method and casts of Ixion Hale's spear

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Copied the tutorial from earlier and made my own Spears. How do these Pyrithite spears look with the Paragon Spear?

>>53551297
i love em. look good.
what loadout of spears are ppl using in troops?

>>53551530
Personally I will run one or two Adrasite Spears in every squad of five and try to squeeze in 5-6 per 15 Custodian squad models. If I run Pyrithite I never run less than 2 per squad and will occasionally run full squads of them to hunt vehicles and Terminators.

>>53551579
trying to build a2.5k tac list. what should i be looking at?

Any suggestions for Imperial Militia Grenadier proxies? I'd love to use something more interesting than Cadians, but I'm also not interested in spending Auxilia levels of money. Scions would've been nice if they weren't 5 to a box, and the alternative Guard regiment models are either old enough to drive, or have only 8 lasrifles and a heavy weapon team (which is a bitch for filling out squads), and have few to no additional sculpts for weapon options. Anyone know of decent alternatives? Preferably based in America for shipping purposes

>>53551880
One Tribune, three squads of Custodians, one squad of Sentinels, two Caladius, one Achillus-Contemptor, and two Coronus.

I run this list frequently and it's very fun while also being really versatile. Make sure two of the Custodian squads have Melta Bombs and also place a Solerite Power Gauntlet or two in the Sentinel squad. Dread should have the spear and make sure the vehicles get extra armor.

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>>53550112
>Only the IH and Mechanicum use the cog-wheel as an aesthetic design

>:(
Damn it Trollkator stop baiting fellow IW

>>53550615
>>53550635
Never leave your Praesidium Shield at home boys.

>>53551929
Skitarii look pretty good, as do the Genestealer Cult Neophytes with a quick headswap (Skitarii Vanguard heads fit nicely and look good).

If you're cool with third party, one company (I think Anvil Industries, although I could be wrong) does some "gothic void troops" which they sell whole and as bits if you just wanted the heads or something, plus a whole bunch of fairly cool ersatz 40k weapons. I have no idea where they're based, though.

>>53551929
What you want is Dreamforges Eisenkern stormtroopers, 20 to a box for fifty AUD and they look baller as fuck

>>53552040
They do look baller, but I wouldn't suggest them. I have a box, and they're kinda big for militia proxies. Not to mention they look kinda skinny for 40k.

I'd suggest looking at Warzone Resurrection troopers, though they might be pushing the size limits too.

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Let's get started, shall we?
Skittle provided for scale. Sector Mech walkways are a little big, but can be easily cut down.

>>53551998
Tbh, I have been looking at Skitarii as an option, though they would require some trimming, and ideally some other bits. Do you think people would throw a fit over them?

>>53552112
ooh ooh ooh, walk us through the projected process. That thing's been through so many theoretical iterations i'm not sure what the endgame is any more, other than 'flying biologis whale-bird/manta'

>>53552112
Finally! This has been much anticipated

>>53552132

Resin is about 1.5cm thick, at least on the bottom, so it should withstand a little filing and careful cutting once my saw arrives.
Sector Mechanicus long walkways, cut down to just the middle strip along the spine, and those submarine airlock doors from the Incinerator built onto the sides above the fins. Probably going to replace the eyes with a cybernetic, and the tail is being converted with some Stormraven Engines.
Jaw comes off so I can build a small bridge compartment into it, although obviously it's not scaled quite right for it to have an actual interior.

Re. weapons, still trying to figure out how to get a TL Lascannon turret that doesn't look grossly oversized each side of the door, although I'm toying with the TL Cognis assembly from the Ironstrider cut down and attached to some top and bottom wiring. Missile racks are probably going to be 3 into each side of the bridge, Heavy Bolters over each door and one on the engine pylon.

Still not sure what to do about the assault ramp, although I'm leaning into building it around the base of the tail.

Then armour up where possible, add assorted cybery bitz and Cogs Mechanicum where it looks nice, then done.

Also, I just discovered that not only does it have pads to stand it on things, it also has two holes I can use to make a stand for it, so it can come off for Landing Pad purposes and display. Nice little bonus, there,

Historical question. In ancient Greco-Roman culture, what difference was there between forward-backward helmet crest and left-right crest?

>>53552245
Would you consider adding some stubby wings to it and doing some weapon mounts on them as some weapon-pylons?

>>53552249
>Historical question
>In muh 30K
> REEEEEE

At least write what you need the knowledge for.

>>53552274
Probably not, I kind of dig the whole airship thing and that would just make it look like a really terrible Stormraven. It's not quite as big as the actual Stormbird, but it's not like anyone is going to exactly struggle to draw Line of Sight to the floating whale covered in guns.

>>53552123
bitta hacking and you can merge skittles and cadians quite easily, enough to sell them as something that's neither at least.

>>53550316
>crusade armour
>mk viii with some extra panel lines
Damn, some of those old IA illustrations don't even pretend to have involved any research on the artist's part.

>>53552287
Roman theme for the Legion, Great Crusade era. I just want to know if there was any difference due to rank (Praetor and Centurion for example) or purely personal preference so I can decide which style for who.

>>53552351
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galea_(helmet)#Helmet_crests

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>>53552531
The basing theme I'm thinking of for my IW, from >>53538481
>>53538405
>>53538160

>>53537748
Yea, me and the other 30k guy in my group already agreed to do homebrew 8th rules for our legions. Since everyone else wants to go to 8th there aren't many options if we want to keep our armies as legions.

>>53552564
>>53537748

I'll probably go 8th as well. Rules will be available for pretty much everything, and points costs for most wargear. The main thing that will be needed are a handful of tweaks to adjust the costs for units in the legion list, but that shouldn't be difficult and I imagine that numerous homebroews of those will pop up. The biggest headache for me is what will happen with AL rules around things like screwing with reserves. Perhaps what I and FW actually need to do is just run 8th with 7th's reserves rules.

>>53552679
I would say we want 7e, but with 8e MC degradation and save modifiers. Fuck their idiotic blast system, though, just turn stuff like Peltast and Seekers and Mortars into D3 shots and keep the fun stuff. Also keep vehicles dammit. In 8e they're boring bullet sponges as far as I can tell, and there's nothing you can really do about them or innovative ways to use them because no facings.

>>53552679
Reserve rules might be a bit of a problem, but I guess it should be fine unless our gaming groups are dicks about it. I'm not familiar with AL rules, but adapting SoH legion rules should be pretty straight forward (except for Edge of the Spear, maybe).

>>53552730
>there's nothing you can really do about them or innovative ways to use them because no facings.

huh? howre they any different than 7th? they can still ram, they can fight in assault, they can be used as cover and they're are still weapons that do more dmg against vehicles, such as haywire.

whats your complaint?

>>53552890
The lack of facings means there's no benefit to flanking vehicles, or assaulting them from an angle, or positioning them to get maximum fire arc while still keeping front armour positioned right. They're indistinguishable from Monstrous Creatures to the point they gave the Admech robots the Vehicle keyword and nobody noticed.
You just point AV weapons at the giant brick of high T wounds and just hope you can kill it before it kills you, since other than getting more guns into range there's no real way to approach them tactically. They can only be used as cover if they completely block LoS, because the only things that grant actual defence bonuses is Area Terrain. Driving your tanks backwards is just as effective as driving them forward, since you can disembark from wherever.

>>53552890
Without vehicle facings a lot of tactical nuance is lost.

>>53552965
oh, armour facings.

sorry but the reality was that tactics came down to deepstrike some melta guys on the rear.
the only other place it really be an issue is for knightS and ppl whine about them anyway.

I've no problem with armor facing going away, it doesn't add as much to the game as ppl think, it also made no sense to me thematically and wasnt balanced across factions

>>53552972
ppl try to claim that, the reality on the tabletop was placing your front towards what you thought was the highest threat while still being able to shoot to your maximum or while still racing ahead to deliver units.
neither of these were in reality that deep or really added that much to the game at all.
in mosty situations the 'tacticool' response was put melta in the rear... rocket science

>>53552730
>>53552965
>>53552972

>Without vehicle facings a lot of tactical nuance is lost

Is parking a gunline with their rear armour against the table edge really tactical nuance though? I agree that they could have maybe given some vehicles a -1T from behind kind of bonus, but along with the blast and template rules I'd say they're trying to get rid of the kind of micromanaged placement and spacing that can bog a game down. Now it doesn't matter if your troops aren't perfectly spaced two inches apart, and you won't be having arguments about whether a vehicle is turned a few degrees one way or the other. I recognise that 8th is aiming at simplifying the whole playing experience, but that's a good thing.

I've seen multiple ppl claim that dedicated transports are scoring in 30k.. can someone tell me where that's it in the rules?

>>53553082
>>53553042
>micromanaged placement and spacing
i.e. tactics?

I'm all for slimming down the bloat of 7th ed, but for vehicles it really did make a difference, since there could be real tradeoffs in positioning-you could drive around the corner and expose your sides but fire your sponsons, or you could stay in cover and force the enemy to shoot at your armoured front. I do like the loss in effectiveness as damage is taken, but having a leman russ roll backwards at an enemy is dumb. And any table where you can have vehicles sit at the edge of a table and lob shots to the other side doesnt have enough goddamn terrain, don't use that as an excuse.

Blast rules and vehicle facings are the only things from eighth i dont like, everything else is baller.

>>>53549888
>>>53550046
>>>53549900
>Recast shite

>>53552564
Tell me of these homebrew LA rules.

>>53551969
what's the role of sentinel squads? and which units use the coronus?

>>53553339

I get what you're talking about, but I don't think it's that much of an issue. 8th will bring in other tactical nuances which we haven't really figured out yet, and losing a bit of the complexity is a small price to pay in return for a more streamlined game.

Can't agree about the blasts though. Placing a template might be entertaining in its way, but in practical terms rolling a dice to determine the number of hits isn't that different and it's an awful lot faster, especially given that players won't have any reason to spend twenty minutes every movement phase making sure that their models are spaced perfectly.

dedicated transports ate NOT scoring in 30k, correct?
unless the mission states otherwise?

>>53554166
>players won't have any reason to spend twenty minutes every movement phase making sure that their models are spaced perfectly.
Hey you're right. Now how will people protect themselves from blasts? Staggered and spaced formations had a reason to exist and now you better keep your models hugging each other forever, using the millennia old protection of "lol don't get shot".

>>53554218
I would think so, otherwise drop pods could score while squads can use only one krak grenade to try to kill them.

>>53553339
>>53553082 #
>>53553042 #
>micromanaged placement and spacing
>i.e. tactics?
no, the idea of tactics that didn't translate into the table top as such, it just meant time consuming positioning that in reality was dumb and NOT REMOTELY thematic or cinematic

>>53554166
If i'm lobbing a medusa shell, for example, and i miss, that shells still gotta hit something. If i fire a cannon into a seething mass of gaunts, even if i miss the one particular grouping i aim at, its still gonna turn a big area into powder and finely dissociated tyranid. The only time i've been annoyed at templates is when some asswipe brings nine quad mortars, and thats a problem with quad mortars being insanely boring to play against, not templates in general

>>53554254
yes because in real life spreading out a certain amount protects you from getting shot huuur duuur

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>>53552305
Yeah consider this idea >>53552274. Four or six whale flippers with missiles or some wind of weaponry. Genevolved whale grown to your liking, like commercial bananas

>>53554307
Less people in the blast area means it still causes the same damage hurr durr.

>>53554298
what? no! if you MISS then you miss. if you hit d3 and only roll 1 then your shot clipped the edge of the house and wasnt a true good shot, if you hit d3 and roll 3 then you smashed into the middle of the pack

>>53554273
>positioning
>NOT REMOTELY thematic or cinematic
Go read some actual ww2 literature about tank warfare, you twit. German tanks were the best of the best, despite their many technical faults and lack of supplies, because the allies had nothing that could penetrate a Panther from the front, while the Panther could penetrate a long .75 through the front armour of a Sherman at 2.5 kilometres. This is saying nothing of the Konigstiger, which would only be damaged by anything the allies had by shooting its rear armour.

>>53554344
you just proved our point... when reality clicks you can come back

>>53554349
Who said anything about houses? I'm using the example of multiple units in close proximity-If i'm shooting into an area with eight units nearby, and i miss one target, then i might hit another unit if theres another unit there to hit-under eighth, if i miss the shot just vanishes into mid air without doing anything. Thats fucking stupid, an explosive doesnt just whiff into nothingness because the firing solution was three meters too far to the left

>>53554365
no thanks I'm not into that boring shit and the majority of ppl i speak to aren't either... its the odd older player who had the weird ww2 fixation that then moved onto 40k probably like you, that cares about how ww2 tanks worked

we're talking about shit here that hovers, fires multiple laser weapons whilst moving, can transport super soldiers in power armor and whose own armor lols at your ancient historical welcomes

welcome to the future wheres only war... not armor facing you sad ww2 obsessed weirdo

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>>53554369
>I claim moral superiority nananananana you can't defeat me +1 trlolol
Right, powerful arguments.
Face it: now units have no reason to not be in base contact at all times, while the best defense to escape templates has always been "be in a disperse formation".
>>53554349
>tfw you're in BL's trademark rock concert formation but the guy rolls a 1 and only 1 dude gets hurt
8E

>>53554365
> WW2 allies panthers something ramble
this isn't a WW2 tank simulator anon

>>53554365
time to play flames of war ?

>>53554472
Im not saying it is, im saying that armour facings were thematic for, y'know, armour.

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>>53554437
>welcome to the future wheres only war... not armor facing you sad ww2 obsessed weirdo
Reminder that technology in 40k-30k is still WW2 with a different topping, and where the tactic most commonly employed by humanity is still digging trenches.

>>53554436
no under 8 if you miss then you miss.. if you hit but roll a 1 on your D6 then your deviated shot scatters and only hit the edge of the unit. but if you roll a 4 or 6 or whatever then you smacked into the pack in a good way.
your brain is just stuck in there only being one method ofgameplay mechanics of translating action and portraying it onto the tabletop

M-maybe if we stop replying he'll go away?

>>53554519
what? some similar cosmetic or desihn aesthetic between ww2 tanks and 40k tanks is purely because the designers were unimaginative... even i agree with armor faces should stay but that's where any similarities end

>>53554544
Right, you're a twit who's ignoring my point or incapable of reading comprehension, good to know. I understand exactly what eighth's blast mechanic is, well before you reiterated yourself for the third time. I'm saying its a bad system that's worse than what we currently have, and now you're going to say i'm an idiot who's stuck in the past and my brain is inferior to your brain because your interpretation of explosions in a board game is more good than mine.

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>>53554605
>that's where any similarities end
Not for guardsmen. At best it reaches Vietnam tier, but you have ti bring your own music.
FIX BAYONETS!

>>53554452
to escape a template? do you not realise how dumb that sounds? you're brainwashed by bad game design.

i for one am looking forward to hiding huddled together behind a tank to maximise los cover

>>53554545
awww look at the little sheep

>>53554630
confirmed. brain washed.

>>53554579
when will scanon return to us, purging the unworthy from amongst us?

>>53554630

It's a trade off. The blast template system was more 'realistic' perhaps, and the possibility of scattering onto a nearby unit is entertaining, but if losing that means that we get to speed the movement phase up tenfold then it's a worthwhile exchange.

>>53554630
8th's blast system is good and removes a lot of headache arguing over positioning of templates and scatter direction, but what's retarded is flamers autohitting flyers D6 times each.

>>53554636
>wut r elysians
>wut r harakoni

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>>53554651
Ah, found the redcoat :^)
>>53554766
This, to be honest. Using tempest bolters would be fucking madness
>>53554782
Kek

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>>53554782

>>53554766
Possibly because i play in a relatively relaxed area at least compared to hellholes like australian metas, the only time i ever saw people doing exact spreading of models is at tournaments. Most of the time it was just people keeping their dudes approximately at the right distance while they placed them. If you had people doing precise equilatrally 2" spreads of their dudes, i can see why it'd be a problem.
>>53554782
This too, thats bloody retarded. It's only really dumb against high-power flamers like GK incinerators and the hellhound gun though

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>>53554804
Gotta tell you, deepstriking isn't what the Guard is known for. And aren't Harakoni more like stormtroopers, with them wearing carapace?

>>53554807
so far we have unrelated comparisons of 30k to ww2, vietnam and now the revolutionary war, none of which bear any resemblance to grimdark.
why don't all these anons just go play nice somewhere else and leave the futuristic war to us real historical gamers?

>>53554519
>technology in 40k-30k is still WW2 with a different topping
40k tech is based on (public knowledge of) cold-war tech in the 80's

People didn't have accurate information of cutting edge military technology in the pre-internet world. Wikipedia didn't exist, google didn't exist. You had to buy the heavily censored and often completely inaccurate specialist manuals yourself to get that information.

>>53554927
People always dig up Krieg and use it as the standard template of Guard, even when they got their entire own rules with their own unit formations and even their fluff says they're a bit simple in their way of fighting.

Tallarn are all about tank combat, ambushes and outflanking the enemy. Catachans are guerrilla jungle fighters. Mordians and Valhallan all about infantry standing tall. Vossies are very high-tech with basically master-crafted lasguns and very good training to boot. None of them are known for digging trenches and bombing the enemy with WW1 artillery.

Need some actually Horus heresy timeline, please

>>53554998
Then it's even dumber to relate it to real life mechanics if there's the risk of your imagination coming shorter than stuff already developed in the past. It's sci fi, they're literally allowed to do whatever they want, yet they were still found wanting.
When (If) the IA books are re-released in 8E flavour, you'll see the tank specifics are still inferior to post 80's designs, due to copy pasta.

>>53555086
>yet they were still found wanting
wanting, how? 40k has never been about how awesome imperial technology is to modern technology.

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With the announcement of HH remaining in 7th I sit here, staring at my Hetaeroi, and I just can't muster any enthusiasm to finally paint the bastards. Motivate me, /tg/.

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>>53555062
It ain't here. It ain't here.
This is edition war, war son.

>>53555181
Edition is temporary, models are forever unless you're brettonian

>>53555181
FW will release a 7.5E fix to the 7th edition
FW, being FW, will shit up the things in general for most armies
But your army is niche, which means you'll be relatively less shitted than others
And you already have better thanks than the AdMech and better infantry than pre-Inferno armies
Victory! :^)

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>>53555181
They are the Emperor's own Companions, hand-picked from amongst the finest gene-crafted warriors, scholars and philosophers the species has ever known.

The Emperor expects, Anon.

>>53555181
Where are those swords from, blood angels?

>>53555559
Sanguinary Guard, I think.

Anon, did the Taghmata Omnissiah participate in the Great Crusade? Becouse i can`t find anything example of Mechanicum-related Compliance or other such stuff. Only Rangda Genocide and Titan Legions in each Exp.fleet

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>>53555722
Sure thing. In the SW exemplary battle you can even see other Mechanicum troops without 30k rules, like Sicarian Infiltrators.

>>53555722
Yeah, they participated a lot. Mostly where Forge Worlds and their vassals like Hive, Agri and Knight worlds were concerned, but they did a vast portion of the regular work too, probably more than the Astartes after they'd linked up with a few more Forges, but obviously they aren't in the "who is best Legion" competition so it doesn't matter as much. Each FW made to comply would normally attend to its own domain then stop until it had everything under control, aside from Xana who had their own little empire and could start helping fairly soon.

Also Titans sometimes come with a massive array of Mech supporting forces aside from the Secutarii, since they just ask the Forge World for dudes and they jump as high as required for the God-Machines.

>>53554332
I have to remove the tail fins anyway to fit two of the three engines on properly, so I can use the ends of them to make the top of two of the fins. Probably a good idea there, anon. I was just thinking that trying to give it actual wings was probably a bad idea.

First order of business, though, is to get my mask and a tub of water and remove some of the paint with some sandpaper, since after checking with my knife (inside the mouth, which is coming off anyway so no damage done) the resin is under a couple layers of paint that was obviously not properly THIN. I don't need it ALL gone, since it's being rattlecan primed and repainted when all is done anyway, but I need enough on the areas I'm working on gone to get a good bond with the greenstuff and superglue.

So stage one is to flay the whale. I'm mean.

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>>53555289
At least at this rate the Sisters may live on to carry the torch

>>53557209
You don't even need to remove the paint, just sand it so it's rough enough to adhere to. Still requires a mask, of course. Flay away.

>>53556104
What do you mean by "regular work"? Because you can't seriously be suggesting the Mechanicum conquered more worlds than the Legiones did.

>>53557712
There's a fuckton more Mech than there are Astartes, and the Astartes took a more specialist role after the very beginning of the Crusade and were mostly sent in to trouble spots, IIRC, because there are so few. Therefore all the standard human planets that didn't resist, just needed a little political reorganization or had shitty military were often dealt with by the Army or the local Mechanicum, so to start with no, but later on easily considering how many Forge Worlds were helping at that point.
Hell, if there was a Reductor covenant nearby they may not even need help with serious resistance.

>>53557712
It's complicated - we don't know what proportion of Imperial (as opposed to Mechanicum) compliances involved space marines vs. regular humans. You could not-too-unreasonably assume that many, maybe even most Great Crusade battles involved humans accompanied by a small Mechanicum contingent but no Astartes. There were a lot of the first two compared to legionnaires. But it's all supposition.

Will we get a miniature for Arkhan Land?

>>53553252
they are not, it specifically mentions that ded transports aren't scoring in the section where they explain how scoring works.

>>53554307
congrats on figuring out on how to lessen the shrapnel impacts of explosions?

>>53557942
We have to get rules for him first, badass as he is. I expect a Taghmata/Reductor Lord of War who acts like the Iron Hands tonk dude, he starts off in his grav-spartan and buffs the shit out of everyone.

>>53557827
Except a single company of Astartes are more than sufficient to break the back of most enemies they'd be likely to face. That's what they do, smash the core of the enemy resistance and move on. When they stall, that's when you bring in larger formations of Astartes, Mechanicum and Primarchs etc.

>>53557861
I suppose that depends on how you define work. I'm not the kind of person who believes Astartes are the be-all end-all, but their entire schtick is that they're some of the finest soldiers in the history of mankind, capable to devastate foes even in small numbers. Beating the odds is sort of what they do.

>>53558103
Most human compliances were probably peaceful - show up with a giant fleet and giant army (numbers are more important than effectiveness for this) and cow the planet into surrendering. Whether that's work or not is up to you.

Against xenos, I suppose compliance means genocide so you want marines at the forefront, though the Mechanicum is good at that too. Humans are fine once the initial resistance is broken.

>>53558103
>Except a single company of Astartes are more than sufficient to break the back of most enemies they'd be likely to face.

Yes, that's the entire point. But because there are so few of them and the Primarchs are rolling with at least ten thousand most of the time, they can only be in a very VERY small number of places relative to the goal of occupying the entire bloody galaxy. Therefore it's probably logical to assume that they other factions can handle the vast majority of the work themselves, and keep a force of astartes on each warzone to deal with any substantial resistance that stalls the warfleets at all. Unless something massive like the Rangdan show up then you've got little cause to have an entire campaign prosecuted by nothing but Marines, because there usually IS something like that going on and you'll need at least a couple Legions mostly there.

If you split the Legions into companies and tell them to go ham on every front at once, they're going to take far greater attrition, too, since there's few enough that you can't alpha strike every single dangerous thing on a planet at once and they'll go down if anything surprisingly badass shows up that a larger force could deal with. Unification Earth had warriors that could match them, it would be strange if none of the Xenos or Uncompliants didn't.

If all you need to do is take over a sector of farmers, peaceful outposts and the odd Forge or Hive, then you can probably leave it to the Mechanicum or the Army, especially if showing the cogboys they're working with the authority of Mars is enough to stop them fighting. So the Mech and Army each probably took far more worlds than the Marines, but encountered way less resistance on most of them.

>>53558302
>there's nothing whatsoever in the lore that says the mechanicum took more worlds than the legions
>but clearly they did
Why do people do this? Just claim their headcanon is gospel?

Would a world taken by the Mechanicum not become a Mechanicum-controlled world? In M41 it seems like there aren't that many of them, just a cluster of vassal planets around every forge world (most of which existed before the Great Crusade).

>>53558350
because infering from the size of the mechanicum and the number of forge worlds (tonnes more then the 20 legions) it is natural to presume that in a empire where each world has to provide soldiers for its armies that there simply is too many fleets, too many armies for the astartes to actually play a large part of the great crusade. the astartes and the primarchs are the thin line that goes where the army and mechanicum cannot break through like in legion, while waiting for those situations the legions are formed primarily around their primarch and strike forces are then detatched to forces who ask for aid.

>>53558350
Did all the "probably" in that little bit go over your head? I didn't claim it was gospel, but it's what I think makes some sense from the fluff I've read. If there's anything that explicitly states that the 2.5 million Marines took more of the entire galaxy than the Army and Mech that do have the numbers, I'll accept that even if it looks a little weird.

>>53558440
It's possible I'm splitting hairs here, but your comment strikes me as somewhat odd. You're first saying the Astartes didn't play a large part of the GC because there were quite few of the, and then go on to say that they broke the back of every/most major foes encountered.

>>53558537
sorry if I was unclear, I'm saying that the army and mechanicum did most of the work and whenever they faced opposition the local forces could not break themselves, the call for astartes went out. the astartes themselves stuck to their own expeditionary fleets while waiting for the call of aid, most likely some expeditionary fleets were either sent on vague enough missions that they never returned to the main fleet, while others like the deathguard almost always returned to their primarch after the aid was given.

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>>53558461
That's just it though, the Astartes take, the Mechanicum, Army and Navy hold. Unless you're IW. Then you're bitter enough to multitask.

>>53558461
HH book 1 explicitly says in the first few pages that the space marines were the crusade's killing edge, while the imperial army were second-line troops mopping up afterwards or holding "as best they could" when marines weren't available. The mechanicum were "just as vital" as the army, so still a tier below the marines, though it does single out the titan legions as excellent "city burners and world breakers".

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Reading the HH Prequel Magnus book atm, Master of Prospero

There's a hilarious bit where Imperials are trying to evacuate religious cultists from a dying world even though they don't want to lead. The Thousands Sons are all "FUCK EM LET EM ROT" but get lectured by PERTURABO of all people telling them to do what is right and save as many as they can.

McNeil really has a unique view of Perty

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There are Mk II-ish legs I can use to make Mk II Ravenwing bikers, but are there arms? I'll use FW marine kits for the torsos, backpacks, and heads, but arms are a problem. The Outriders come with a 40k Scout Biker sprue so that's pretty awkward to use. The jetbikes aren't so bad - they have Mk IV arms, which are incorrect but I'm not sure too many people would notice. (Would they?)

>>53558649
I know right. But in all fairness, Perturabo was known for spending militarymen, not civilians. Furthermore, he had a fucking amazing logistics system, so he'd know how important civilians are.
After all, the main resource the Imperium has is people.

>>53555086
>>53555176

The point of (pre-hispeed internet) Imperium tank design is to bring out the romanticism of WW1 and WW2 tanks along with some aspects of those wars. It was never meant to show some sense of vision or superiority compared to what exists today. Fuck, the most recognizable transports in the Imperium are either literal metal boxes or metal boxes with extra angles.

>>53558631
>>53558630

>killing edge
That's the point. A lot of the time you don't need a killing edge at all to induce compliance in a whole bunch of worlds by looking scary and then asking nicely, so the Marines still did the difficult fighting, If you need Marines, of course you're doing a "best you could" fight, that's a tier above what you're equipped for or there'd be no need for Astartes. They kept the Crusade moving, hence their importance in a history book describing how awesome Humanity is, but they didn't individually go and induct every world other than the problem children unless they were the Word Bearers or IW/IF/UM. Hence, more compliances, WAY less danger and fighting.

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>>53558736
>Fuck, the most recognizable transports in the Imperium are either literal metal boxes or metal boxes with extra angles.
You say it like it's a bad thing and you wanted a Coronus transport

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>>53558777
I for one welcome our new dildo-shaped overlords.

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>>53558631
Which is nothing we didn't already know.

Astartes break the enemy and move on - I think I'm quoting either the Malodrax book, but they "Hit planetary targets hard and move on". They lack the resources to hold large territories.

The Army mops up resistance and garrisons conquered worlds. As time passes they also fight alongside the Legions (certainly the Iron Warriors made extensive use of Imperial Army and later Penal formations).

Mechanicum produces all the exotic stuff other worlds are incapable of, and if they "compete" with, say, power-packs they outproduce entire systems on their own. When they're able, their forces are capable of providing excellent support. I'd say that, if you put both on an infinite empty field to slug it out, any Forge World would beat any Legion (because numbers + technological edge + Titans 'n shiet), while any Legion would defeat any/most Forge Worlds by themselves in a "real" fight - assuming the Legion is attacking the Forge World, they'd be packing serious firepower with their gathered Legion fleet, including Exterminatus-tier weapons AND the authority to use it/giving zero fucks (depending on Legion and whether they're loyal or traitor), and remember that only a small portion of the full might of the Forge World would actually be involved in the fighting. Also, a Primarch spearheading the assault.

Basically, Mech win fair fight, Legion win war cuz fighting only a small part of the Mech and also tactical advantage - bolter marine > the average Skitarii by a significant degree.

At least, that's how I interpret the available lore. thoughts?

>>53558671
If you can find the bits, the GW Ravenwing Command Biker box uses MkII arms for each of the bikers.

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Considering a bit less than 2.5 million marines and how Primarchs have a 40000+ marine entourage in their main legion fleet, that'd leave about 400 marines assigned to each of the 4500 expeditionary fleets.
But we have accounts of some of those fleets having more marines to spend than a single 40k chapter, while others presumably were merely company sized.
Furthermore, these marine battlegroups not always were accompanied by human elements.
This would mean there was always a need for yet moar marines and the supply couldn't keep up with their demand, just like volkite chargers.
Expeditionary fleets were always in need for marines, and this can only mean there were unlucky ones that had no marines at all.

I'd say this would be the classic FW vagueness scenario:
>The galaxy is so big everything happened. Fleets without marines, Marines without fleets, combined arms fleets, independent explorator Magi, Rogue Trader Crusaders (yes, they are mentioned in the HH books). Hell, even Pirate Marines. Avast HH6, brothers, argh!

>>53558858
Remember though that conquered worlds would be garrisoned by the Imperial Army, but their existing military would be shipped off-world for the crusade. And they weren't conquered by a world-full of Army, so the numbers of mortals weren't spent but rather replenished by those worlds.
Thus there would be a need for marines but a surplus of mortals, and demand would grow exponentially while offer could only double at best.
Who wouldn't want marines to fight alongside with...the problem is, are they available to (You)?

Remember that story (Call of the Lion) where Astellan finds a planet with Earth-like military and they're already shitting themselves with the presence of spacecraft over their cities. And did Astellan's fleet had mortal regiments?

Overkill is simply an indicator of resources badly administered.
Unless it's against xenos.
Fuck xenos.

Also, we're arguin because FW is bad at numbers, just keep that in mind.

>>53558736
>It was never meant to show some sense of vision or superiority compared to what exists today.

You mean other than Rogue Trader rulebook saying "yeah, it all looks like cobbled together shit, but it's way beyond anything we have today and sophisticated AR and HUD displays are so mundane there's no point in even bringing them up."

I mean, this is a world where high-powered direct energy weapons, cybernetic and stuff are commonplace.

>>53559162

Weren't we discussing this in the context of design engineering? I'm not disputing that 30k's disintegrator rays aren't vastly superior to my AR-15.

>>53553824
Lol none of them are recasts

>>53554162
Defense or tarpitting. They're great at soaking hits and holding objectives.

Also the Coronus can go to the Sentinels or Custodians; keeping your versatile nature is key.

>>53559138
It should be noted that it seems like some expeditionary fleets did not have Marines with them too.

>>53559280
like the fleet in Legion.

>>53559138
Yeah, that seems about right. If you want to construct a reasonable 40k campaign you have to pretty much construct the numbers from scratch, though, since GW and FW give sod all. I once calculated how much a single Forge World could produce in terms of goods value and it was something like ninety Earths, without any of that being mundane stuff like food and basic amenities other places can produce that's an absurd amount of high-tech equipment. I've given up arguing over it unless you have a clear number from fluff, like that one DG who got rushed by 150-odd scrubs (malnourished women, children and injured, but crazed zealots all) and they beat him to death or a basic thing like "2.5 million soldiers is way too few to conquer the galaxy".

I will remark that it adds a little touch to battles as Militia or Mechanicum to rip the Emperor's Finest up with a tiny fraction of your available forces, especially when they bring along deathstars or similar and then lose to dime-a-dozen Myrmidons or hordes of cultists. Of course, this tends to be a pitched battle, which is where the strategic mobility and independent nature of the Marines does them little good and they tend to do the worst unless they're the IW or similar and had time to prepare and bring along plenty of heavy ordnance.

>>53559187
Ok. Sure. I don't think anyone would claim a Russ is a superior tank design. But it doesn't have to be. It's made of SCIENCE! and can to toe to toe against ancient alien death rays.

I'd like to imagine DAoT rhinos and predators were the 3rd world colonist tanks, while "core worlds" without the need for STCs got all the awesome stuff attributed to the DAoT.

>>53559503
It'd explain why Custodes stuff looks so wildly different. The Emperor remembered that ine time he saw a fly space-taxy and slapped some guns on it.

>>53558883
Thanks! So far I'm only seeing arms that aren't holding onto handlebars, but I need to dig deeper.

>>53559503
My headcannon is that the Leman Russ is an STC designed for poorly-equipped colonies so they could build cheap-ass tanks in quantity. The pinnacle of human technology was more in line with the tanks the Custodes get, but only the most advanced worlds could build them and not very many. Farm colony XY3449 or whatever was given a design that could be assembled by the same machine that churned out tractors.

Let's not forget that a ton of human and alien civilizations were wiped out - many of them would have been weak enough to struggle against the mediocre armor of a Leman Russ. Only the most powerful were left.

But I have to assume that the Land Raider and Baneblade have better armor than GW's fluff reports. Probably a similar thickness and weight as modern tank armor, because there are practical limitations, but a better material. On the other hand, physical armor is likely to max out well before weapon development does.

>>53559693
The ones on the bars are too, they might just be listed as something else. Or, as is frequently the case with bits-sellers, it might be part of a lot.

>>53559805
>CSM
>In muh Heresy

Child, you know not what you do.

>>53559187
we were discussing it because ww2 obsessed weirdos are trying to defend armor facings due to "its just like ww2"

>>53560308

tbqh WW2 vibes are entirely the point of playing Imperium heavy armor units

if anything, it was dumb to apply facing values to xeno hover vehicles like Eldar Grav tanks

>>53560308
This triggers me so hard. It isn't "just like ww2", it's a fundamental part of how tanks are designed. You put the thick armour where you expect to get hit, and save materials by doing so. All vehicles in 30 and 40K do this, except those that are just a sheet of cover over the engines and other internal parts, like the DEldar Raider. You don't need to be obsessed with WW2 to use common sense you quarterwit.

>>53555289
Or you have Slann, other than the dead mages. I have 5 cold one riders and almost 20 foot.

>>53560530
No, no, Anon. That's too complex and can only mean you're a WW2boo. After the cold war armour facings were replaced by simplicity and even if you are on your own you might suffer D6 hits, so cuddle with your friends and your anti-air flamer.

>>53560530

Thats how armor design works in reality because there is no need to create a vehicle which can eat tank rounds in 360 different directions. There is such a need in the grim darkness of the future, which is partly why Imperial vehicles are mostly boxes or varying shapes of pentagons and hexagons.

Also, pointing a warhead at the rear of a MBT equivalent does not automatically guarantee that MBT blowing up into paper confetti. But it does in 40k because muh ww2.

>>53560674
>There is such a need in the grim darkness of the future
You can make that argument for marines, but not for armies that tend to fight with a well-defined front, like the Imperial Guard and (presumably) the earlier Imperial Army.

Even more marines, the fact that Mk III armor exists suggests that they had plenty of situations for which better frontal armor made sense.

>>53560674
There is no such need in 30/40K. What sort of stupidly wasteful idiot would design such a thing? The entire point of Land Raiders is that they've got maximum armour everywhere, and I imagine it's part of why they're so rare

What was the best name for any Primarch weapon?

>Gorefather and Gorechild, of course

>>53560790
Why does Angron have a manlet axe?

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>>53560790
Left and Right

>>53560741

The Astra Militarum more or less adheres to the same tactics of its 30k forebears, without accounting for the fact that they were configured to support Astartes. Thats partly why the Imperium has been deteriorating ever since the heresy (no innovation, can't mass produce a tank that isn't a better piece of a shit than a Leman Russ on a galactic scale, etc). Thats also partly why Guilliman is authorizing new vehicles designs in m42.

>>53560752

I imagine that was one of the objectives behind the tactical dreadnought armor project. And in pre-HH fluff, Land Raiders were widely used by Militarum throughout the Great Crusade because they were so reliable. They were used as naval submersibles for fucks sakes. It wasn't until after the Codex Astartes that Land Raider production was reduced significantly.

>>53560850
9/10.

>>53560850
>using faceapp on primarchs
Don't pretend you didn't use the genderswap option, post results.

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>>53561035
Sorry anon, I'm not the creator. I just downloaded it after it popped up a dozen or so threads ago.

Have this instead. Same difference right?

Historically, heavy rear armor has been rare - what we called heavy tanks were generally well protected on the sides as well as the front so they could drive into enemy territory and take shots from all over the place. I see Land Raiders doing that, and Baneblades.

The Panther weighed as much as some heavy tanks but it had average side armor (it was all up front), so in terms of role it was thought of as a medium tank. Just a big, well-armored one. Medium tanks were expected to act in quantity, with infantry support to keep bazookas and other man-portable weapons from getting them from the side. The Leman Russ and Predator are more in this vein (or Sicaran, if you want to call the Predator a light tank).

The Leman Russ is likely limited by engine output and fuel efficiency (or output when using nonstandard fuel). That was a factor during WWII - they kept trying to add armor as weapons got better, but at some point the engine couldn't really it (the suspension too, but in the far future of humanity they can probably deal with that). Again, these are STCs designed for ease of production rather than quality. The Sicaran and Malcador tanks had good engines with plenty of reserve capacity, but if they're gone in M41 then they must've been on borrowed time in M31.

>>53560941
>It wasn't until after the Codex Astartes that Land Raider production was reduced significantly.
I think the fall of Anvilus IX late in the Heresy had a lot to do with it.

>>53561119

Post-HH "upgrades" to the Land Raider design more or less show that Land Raider production can still be possible on a wide scale because of its design versatility - its just that only 10k warriors in the universe will have any use for Land Raiders, so there isn't a real need to ramp up production over 10k years. Circumstances change in m42, but thats another story.

What's the cheapest way to get legs for different MK sets? I have a set of MK 3 legs to put on my plague marines, but I want some Mk 4 and 2 as well for alittle variety (and to match the upperbody armor

>>53561249
Buy BaC for MK IV.

>>53561249

This

>>53561381

eBay prices for Mk3/4 squads are based on the box sets which are stupid expensive. You're better off buying the bulk box set.

>>53561381
did preheresy deathguard use MK IV now that I think about it? I think I heard they mostly used MK III or only MK III

>>53561488
everybody used everything in various amounts, except for beakies, which was primarily RG and AL

>>53559838
Or the Russ the Imperium uses is very different from the original design. Just like the Macharius is based on some pre-Heresy tank, but only fragments of its design remain and the rest is just cobbled together from other STCs. Or many other STC designs the Imperium has, which are mere fragments put together with Martian SCIENCE!

Custodes vehicles are made on Terra by some of the few non-Admech workshops that have advanced tech (probably non-STC, since why would you need a copy of Technology for Dummies on the cradle of human civilization?) but not enough resources to mass-produce their stuff.

Weren't bolters Terran design, which is why Custodes use them instead of the more advanced Martian volkites?

>>53561488
All Legions used all marks to some degree. Considering the DG predilection for prolonged infantry assaults, MK III was ideal since it offered increased frontal protection, like in the tank discussion.

>>53561466
That's what I said, buy the box kit and sell what you don't want.

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>>53560850
Perturabo and Ferrus Manus used the very same weapons :^)
Pertus Manus of the Hand Warriors.

>>53561466
>eBay prices for Mk3/4 squads are based on the box sets which are stupid expensive.

Where are you buying? I bought some MkIV not so long ago and they were dirt cheap.

>>53561488
Even old art depicts plenty of DG in MkIV. Why wouldn't Horus equip traitors in the latest and greatest suit?

No legion used MkIII exclusively, it's a specialist suit designed for certain situations.

>>53561466
>>53561381
Can all of the models in that set be painted and used for death guard? are some of them branded ultramarines or wordbearers or something? Did deathguard use the lil plum shits on their helmets sometimes or did they kind of shun those decorations?

Sorry for all the questions just want my army to be pretty "accurate"

>>53561580

In my mind, they should cost no more than $20. $25 may seem really cheap for some people, and thats okay. But as a bargain shopper, my ideal price of $15 for MK3/4s on the sprue is virtually impossible and can only be achieved by buying the box set for $100.

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>>53560941
Considering the Imperial Army was bisected into Navy and Guard, and that neither of those pursue active conquests for the most part, nor any Imperial institution for that matter, and that about half their manufacturing assets were either stolen or destroyed, and that the most powerful enemies to the Imperium are actually ex-Imperials themselves that distract the Imperium so much it can't muster a crusade to extinguish a single alien species that barely shows on the map, nor a locust species that has their own version of exterminatus, then yeah, it's easy to see why would the Imperium of Man have a harder time nowadays.
It's because the enemy also has space marines, unsupported by institutions but unconstrained by regulations.

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>>53561630
Nothing in BaC is Legion-specific, though much of it looks more "orderly" Legions. Keep in mind that the Death Guard were around 100K strong by the Heresy, so some formations might have used the plumes and some not, do what feels right for you.

That said, I'd use them. DG tended to be infantry-oriented and the plumes are a nice way of distinguishing squadleaders. the only official pic I've found shows a Sergeant without plume, tho. Pic related, and post pictures! With your Death Guard, my Iron Warriors, Anon's Emperor's Children and Anon's whale-thing we'll be the undisputed masters of the thread!

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>>53561488
They can both have lots of MkIII but also be equipped with top of the line general armour, courtesy of being very close to Horus.

>>53561764
I like the plum too, so I think I'll use it for more variety. Guess I'll pull the trigger on these. Only thing that looks slightly off is the contemptor is much more decorated than the DG one on forgeworld, but that's OK

>>53561805
You could always shave, cut or scrape away the details you dislike and then use some watered-down liquid greenstuff to fill the gaps/smoothen things.

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>>53561805
For the record, after Mortarion's arrival the legion stopped using much condecorations and similar shiny bits, instead wearing non-lethal damage as badges of pride.
But for terran vets, old habits die hard.

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>>53561892
He could almost be mistaken for an IF...

I disapprove.

Which sword bits have coolest crossguard in your opinion?

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>>53561099
And now that's gone, anon. Running up to people from the front is the same as ambushing from the back, and no matter how many meltaguns you fire at it, there's no stunning or weapon destroyed now, the only way to prevent that artillery from shooting is to destroy it completely.
Meaning two meltaguns in a squad equal to pretty much a dead squad.

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>>53561948
If you are a cross-eyed Catachan perhaps. That Aquila is far too smol to be Dorn's.
Until FW releases his mini, which they promised its Aquila won't be ridiculously big.
AKA, small as fuck.

>>53562108
I said Imperial Fist you effete Vostroyan

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>>53562159
Try posting FW/BL illustrations of Fists with Aquilas modelled on their armours then, you abject Tallarn.

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>>53562232
>Be Kurdish
> Called Tallarn
>No fucking mountains on Tallarn just sand
>Triggered

You Ork-kissing Ca(na)dian. Here's your Aquila. Since you got Dorn confused with his worthless Sons earlier, I chose a pic of him from my massive folder of official artwork featuring Imperial Fists with Aquilas. There are no other reasons for my choice of pic.

>>53561630
Betrayal at Calth is all generic, though I'm not certain that legionnaires who enjoy walking through corrosive atmospheres would wear helmet plumes or those leather straps (pteruges) on Cataphractii armor. Seems like they'd melt sooner or later. Still, Cataphractii works well for DG so use them anyway. The plumes can be left off or removed - and there's nothing official about DG not using them. Maybe the Terrans did. Maybe the Barabarans did too. Your call.

The Terminator Praetor isn't a great in-game choice, so he's often used as a mere sergeant. The other Mk IV character is a chaplain but can be repurposed with some weapon modifications.

Burning of Prospero is a little different - the 30 Mk III marines are generic, as the Tartaros termies, but not the two characters and you'd have a hard time finding a use for the Custodes or Sisters. Just buy the Mk III sprues on eBay, you can often find them for $25 for a squad of 10.

I think they look good in Mk V as well.

>>53562371
>his worthless Sons
[brushes mustache]
Now listen 'ere u lil shit.

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>>53562477
My harem of TS give zero fucks about your ugly stash, glory hound.

>>53562042
You must be looking for the 40k thread.

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>>53562371
It was you who implied Garro looked anything like a Fist, you ice-humping colour-blinded valhallan. Dorn is no common Imperial Fist. He is The Imperial Fist, and the only source of VII Aquilas, and the fact that you could imply they have others besides him is uninformed at best, AL-seditious at worst.

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>>53562712
Pic related, you Ryzan Orkfodder. That works two ways, because one of the "Sections" or whatever Gorillaman made you shit out got rekt there as well.

>>53562712
>>53562795
Also you Inwit inbreds have some nerve to call other people out on being ice-humping

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>>53562712
>>53562795
>>53562893
>mfw

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>>53562795
Does it comfort you to know that the TS gunned down by the loyalists had it the best, as they never witnessed the shitfest of a galaxy Magnus' actions brought?
>>53562893
WTF are you talking about? I'm the one who posted Garro, aka British DG! I'm going to beady-eye you so hard you'll peril and all your brothers are going to get pinned.

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>>53562966
Pic related

>>53563042
I'm a proud son of the Fourth all the way. I don't know what this "being pinned" you speak of is, though I suspect it's what happens to people shot by shrapnel Heavy Bolters. My harem on the other hand doesn't discriminate.

What's a good way to deal with Knight lists? My Mech are going to be facing two Knight players once they're ready and haven't got much of an idea of how to fight them. I know Vulturax are good, but I want to play Reductor. Hoplites? Seems they won't really get anywhere with 12" range. Still deciding what to buy, so suggest whatever if there's something that won't completely take all the points.

>>53563137
If you play Mech, ally in some Iron Warriors and use the Hammer of Olympia RoW. Check out the 1D4Chan article on 30K Legions for details, but basically, your artillery will become a great deal more accurate. Moreover, IW have excellent AT Legion specific units. Iron Havocs with Lascannons are fragile but will utterly fuck anything up to and including Spartans, with luck a full squad can destroy a Spartan a turn.

>>53563137
>>53563199
Sorry if that wasn't the advice you're looking for, I play IW and they're sort of my passion, so I try to cram them in everywhere.

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Fuck I love this thing.

Can someone provide me with an italian IW banner of fascism?

>>53563199
Don't really want any Marines, honestly, but I'll keep it in mind if I ever want some converted Lascannon Servitors or something once I have a proper Mech army. Laser-guided artillery does look fun, even if the taxes are pretty high.

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>>53563458
Facism is for those too weak to stand opposition. Weakness has no place in the Fourth Legion.

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>>53563125
Kek TS harem
>>53563199
That only affects IW artillery, though.
>>53563458
No. :^)

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>>53563649
Upon a re-read, maybe they do. I was thinking about the bit of RoW bonuses not spilling to other detachments...but the Ironfire doesn't realluy specify.
I don't know.

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>>53563125
>>53563649

I'm reading Graham McNeil's 'Fulgrim' again. I still think the Maraviglia scene has to be my favorite scene. What do you guys think all that shit sounded like?
You think it was like Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music?
I like to think it was something a combination of the 1812 Overture, Beethoven's 5th Symphony and Krzysztof Penderecki's Utrenja Ewangelia from the Shining. What do you guys think or imagined?

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>>53563968
Bruva

>>53564050
>1812 Overture, Beethoven's 5th Symphony and Krzysztof Penderecki's Utrenja Ewangelia from the Shining
Not familiar with the last one, but all of that plus the opera song from the Fifth Element. And throw in one of the weirder Eurovision songs from a few years ago (also opera-themed, sort of): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV3xp5ZXSYA

>>53564137
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXGd2XPofeU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmOoekbK6YI

>>53563968
On the flipside:
>Will never be in charge
>Perturabo loses his mind
>No glory in their missions
>Mostly overlooked by the Imperium at large
>Sea Green is the best color
>Horus is the best

>>53563968
Don't forget, Brother, that the big guns never tire.

T. Leman Russ to Magnus the Red, Prospero 004M31

>>53564256
>>Horus is the best
B-but he's a traitor anon, space dad said we aren't supposed to talk to traitors.