EDH/Commander General

>>53466788
>What was your first Commander deck like?
Garbage.

I wanna die, should I get back into WoW or pick up commander MtG? I wanna spend money on either of these

>>53466788
it was mizzex precon and it sucked dick

>>53466924
commander is fun if you have a good group

i dont know how fun wow is but in 2017, i'm guessing not much

>>53466924
Should play ffxi instead it was always the better game, you know 15 years ago when those games were playable.

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>>53466788
It was a pretty fucking shit BW enchantment deck. It didn't have a commander that supported the deck, just something that allowed me to play those colors.

I have learned much in those two years.

Picture unrelated, but it's something going into my Sygg deck for giggles.

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>What was your first Commander deck like?
>Kaalia
Introduced my meta to EDH. Oppressive.
>Ghave
I was the only serious EDH player. Oppressive.
>Angus Mackenzie
Wanted to seem less oppressive. Oppressive.

3 years later, nothings changed but the commanders.

>>53466788
First one was Breya combo. It technically still works but there's more fluff in it than I'd like. Should probably just tear it apart at this point.

>>53466924
Which ones do your friends/local play group play?

>>53466946
Yeah, the deck was pretty awful out of the box. Still, at least it was easy to properly upgrade.

>>53466788
My first deck was an incoherent Karametra deck with an excessive amount of unhelpful equipment, specific cards I liked but are definitely not good (who runs Giant Growth in EDH? Hold the Line is jazzy, but not reliable, etc.), not nearly enough lands and no rocks.

Took a few tries for me to get into the swing of things.

Did the release of BW Daxos inspire a return to the deck? Lord knows the Atraxa release brought my attention back to Ghave after years of it collecting dust.

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>>53467127

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How.
How the fuck does someone build a Meren deck and not know that Meren can put cards in hand.
How did these people even get through primary school, let alone get to the point where they know the basics of Magic

>>53467211
I once built a Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius deck and got up to casting Curiosity on it in a game to realize that I had confused it with Firemind.

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What are some good Gruul combos?

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>>53467255
Gruul no like puny combo
True gruul smash!

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>>53466788

Taigam is mai husbando

Help me pick my reboundable game winning spells, /tg/!

>>53467255
Making every land you control a Mountain, and then unloading all your basics with a Valakut and 2 copies out

>>53467255
Conspired Tooth and Nail
t. Wort

>>53467144
Neither :((((

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>group, although composed of old friends, has recently picked up a habit of holding grudges and making griefy decisions because of them
>got ultra triggered last session over some massive dick moves (potential storytime)
>had a genuinely shit session because of it
>decided that i need to showcase that i can be a dick too
>start theorycrafting a skithiryx deck out of my old monoblack remnants
>put together a list that can typically kill a player turn 4-6 and still hold out afterwards thanks to monoblack's abundance of mana, draw and control stuff
>would cost me 30 buckaroos, including shipping, to buy

should i pull the trigger? obviously not a lot of money but i still don't know if i want to put together a deck just to annoy the people i'm trying to have fun with

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>>53467271
You may have a point there >>53467309 >>53467328

Anyone know good sources for custom playmats?

Have you guys ever seen Defense of the Heart go off?

>>53467308
reconnaissance, time warp, call to mind

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>>53466788
>What was your first Commander deck like?
Never played magic before, but my DND playgroup convinced me to buy a precon deck
So it was oloro
First solo deck was vorosh the hunter, it was just bulk because I thought paying money for cards was dumb and was convinced that all cards were equally good.
That deck only won one game that involved waiting till it was 1v1 and death watching my opponent's Serra avatar and then killing it

>>53467520
Huh. Does */* count for less than 2 for Alesha?

>>53467550
I don't believe so, I'm almost 100% sure it checks lifetotal in every zone

>>53467503
You need call to mind and one of its lookalikes, but yes.

You can also use Maze of Ith as an 'alternate' for recon.

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>>53467308

>>53467182
Problem is that I just care more about the game more than they do, so no matter who I run, it's generally better than theirs. I don't wanna be cancer, I just am.

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I needed a low power deck and i chose this.
this is my deck so far
any ideas to make it not shit?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/657357#paper

>>53467386
Honestly, play the one that's has the higher potential for a social scene. If you wanna hit up a LGS, go for Magic (cuz solo MtG isn't a thing, unfortunately). If guilds are more your thing, do WoW.

>>53466788
Ezuri elves and it was POOP. I still have an elves deck because they hold a special place in ny heart but unless you get a nut draw that deck is doomed to second place in most games.

>>53466788
>thread question
2015 Boros
My suffering has not ended, but I've begun to enjoy it.

help me cut creatures from my saproling-devour-themed deck

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/eat-your-veggies-2/

>>53467439
Have you guys tried talking it out first? Arms races are bad enough as is. No need to add malice on top of it just cuz people are having communication problems.

>>53467255

Malignus+Xenagod

Your "combo" is just punching someone in the face as hard as possible

>>53466788
Darigaaz Goodstuff, great beatdowns with him, ramp, tutors, then I met Prossh.

>>53467766
>Borosachism

Go all out and add in black for that sensual self-harm.

>>53467660

It exiles itself, it can't Rebound. People have commented on Extra turn spells, but only a handful of those don't exile themselves, and most are expensive to purchase.

>>53467503

Reconnaissance seems good enough to try.

Call to Mind and Relearn could also be useful.

>>53467778
I feel like hitting the guy who does grudge plays with a 10/10 infect flier on turn 4 would be more fun though

>>53467730
Put better removal like Decimate in.

>>53466788
>What was your first Commander deck like?
It was Sharuum.
I played in a group that usually played 4-6 player games, so I was a giant pillowfort with a few combos. Nobody ever bothered to attack me early game even though I almost always won at the end.

>>53467918
Just make a Malira deck. Don't try to win, just make it around summoning Malira, protecting Malira, and laughing at your opponent.

>>53467977
due to my sleep deprived prose, you misunderstand me. i meant that i will be the one who will hit him with the 10/10 infect flier

his grudge play was land destructing me, bringing me from 6 mana to 4 mana when i had 1 hand card and no nonlands on the board. every single other player had at least twice my permanents and hand cards. his reasoning? i destroyed his mana doublers earlier

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My first deck was Teneb, he was brand new and exciting. Deck was actually pretty good with Recurring Nightmare, Protean Hulk, Survival and a bunch of neat fatties.

>>53466788
My first deck was Sydri, Galvanic Genius. It was fun, no fast mana or tutors, just big artifacts. The thing my friends complained about the most was the lifelink deathtouch darksteel forges that Sydri made. I think the only combo I had was some Sharuum Sculpting Steel combo in the 99.

>>53467738
sounds cringey to try and insert myself into a commander group, I might go the safer route and choose WoW

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>>53468054
>Recurring Nightmare, Protean Hulk,

I mean, I know Hulk is unbanned now, but still.

>>53467870
>People have commented on Extra turn spells, but only a handful of those don't exile themselves
Savor the Moment, Plea for Power, Temporal Manipulation, Time Warp, Capture of Jingzhou, Walk the Aeons, Beacon of Tomorrows, Time Stretch

>>53468131
Walking into an LGS and asking if anyone wants to play isn't cringy; it's expected. That's what the store is for. Check to see if they have an EDH league or tournament scene. They're more and more popular these days. Hell, just walking in, watching some poeple play, and asking if you can catch the next game is the standard way of going about getting a group.

>>53468270
Don't forget about remand

>>53468142

Neither were banned at the time.

>>53468301
Those are extra turn cards that don't exile themselves. More than those that do (Temporal Mastery, Temporal Trespass, Expropriate, and Part the Waterveil) and I also shouldn't have included Beacon of Tomorrows, as it puts itself back in the deck, but still, there are plenty of options.

>>53467255
kiki + conscripts is mono red but gets the job done

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>>53468386
new guy combos with him too

>>53468270

Problem is, most of them are very expensive (to me). I also kind of dislike taking extra turns on a multiplayer game: it just makes the game boring for the other players.

>>53467255
Probably something you can do with earth craft and red tokens/untaps

>>53467255
>>53468474

i used to have this gruul wort combo deck that didnt have any straight up "i have these 2 cards in play so i win" combos but any time i got to untap with wort in play it was pretty much gg, all the cards in the deck either made tokens, made mana, or drew cards, and many different ways of turn tokens into mana or turning tokens into cards

>>53468446
>5 mana is expensive
Fuck outta here Spike, this is a Timmy only thread.

Is EDH a good format for someone who has next to no MTG experience? And where should I go for beginner resources? I know the basic mechanics but not things like how each commander plays and such.

I'm almost tempted to scrap together a janky Breya token deck with Panharmonicon, Marionette Master and other artifact token generators and sac outlets.

>>53468784
Honestly, just ask here. People are going to be dicks to you, but there isn't really a "Big Book of EDH Generals." Use EDHrec to get an idea of what commanders are played, the majority is pretty good at picking out what's good from what's bad, at least in general terms. And yes, EDH is probably going to be better as your first format than any other except maybe Pauper, just because you can make a half decent deck out of cards you have lying around.

>>53468839
>>53468784
Or cards your friends have lying around, or cards your older siblings have lying around, or that your dad gave you in a big box of his old stuff, or that you found for 5 bucks at a yard sale.

>>53468680
He's not much of a spike when his second sentence is all about his concern for the other players.

>>53468839
Well I have maybe 200 cards from a 5 dollar grab bag I got at my lgs and most seem useless so I'm more or less starting from scratch. A friend of mine suggested buying one of the 2013 Precons, Mind Seize iirc, but wouldn't buying singles for a real deck be a better deal/stronger as a whole or is that particular Precon great or something?

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>>53468439
Oh fugg I want that in Zada

>untapping Krenko and making a fuckbillion more Goblins for second combat

>>53468948
The only thing that's particularly good about Mind Seize is that it includes a card that's about $25.

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>>53466788
It was like any other person's first deck; I had like seven archetypes that didn't work together at all and the bigger the creature's CMC, the better it was. Pic related, tribal shitshow...

>>53468948
Mind Seize is the Jeleva 2013 Precon. It's not that great. Jeleva is commonly regarded as a Tier 1 commander, but that's almost entirely because of her Grixis identity. As >>53469033 says, the only good thing about it is True-Name Nemesis.

As for buying your deck card by card, that's good once you've got a handle on EDH, but your first deck is most likely going to be shit, and if you drop money on singles you're going to end up with some buyer's remorse. The only thing that you can buy without that is staples, like Sol Ring and Command Tower which should go in just about every deck, but those are in all of the precons.

I'd recommend giving a serious thought to what color combination or what playstyle you'd like to play around with, and also to always try out your decks for a few turns in a program before you buy cards.

>>53468948
precons are a good start for someone who can't into deckbuilding at all. though you can make some seriously powerful decks for cheap if you start from scratch.

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>>53467255
This combo requires a lot of pieces but my favorite is:

Borborygmos Enraged enchanted with Keen Sense/Snake Umbra + Abundance

Every time you discard a land and bolt a player, you can name land off the Abundance trigger, reveal until you hit one, draw it, then discard to bolt a player. Rinse and repeat. Equip Grafted Exoskeleton for spice.

>>53469174
who fucked up that card like that. thank god it wasn't a card thats in demand

>>53469142
>>53469161
I'm fine with net decking if it's cheaper and better so I don't have to be the greatest deck builder right now. The playstyle thing I'm unsure of, when I played Yugioh I preferred lockdown and mastubatory combo decks so either or both of those styles.
Or some huge solitaire combo that ends in a lock.

>>53469243
You should buy the Derevi precon, Evasive Maneuvers.

>>53469243
Buy the noWhite precon, it has a ugly ogre motherfucker as the main commander.

I think Scion was my first CMD even though i made a proxy Athreos to see how CMD works so i think that don't count

>>53469243
how cheap are you willing to go? because here's my breya deck and it's pretty much the definition of masturbatory combo. it is also 200 on tcg, which is not that bad comparatively.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/breya-grave-combos/

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>>53469199
anon believe me, there are lot more worst cards to be defaced

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Building this dude. What's some good self-mill in grixis? I got some wheel effects and entomb/buried alive, is there anything else I should take note of?

>>53469381


>>53469390
mesmeric orb is a great mill card. conjurers closet to keep up to one creature you unearth every turn

>>53468948
I'd consider buying one of the current run of Commander precons if you can find one:

Breed Lethality
>Atraxa $18
>Reyhan $8
>Deepglow Skate $7
>Kalonian Hydra $5
>Crystalline Crawler $4
>Scaveging Ooze $3
>Reveilark $3
>Sol Ring $3
>Cauldron of Souls $3
>Duelist's Heritage $3
>Ash Barrens $3
>Underground River $3

Entropic Uprising
>Vial Smasher $11
>Yidirs $10
>Chromatic Lantern $9
>Thrasios $8
>Wheel of Fate $5
>Waste Not $4
>Kydele $3
>Burgeoning $3
>Chaos Warp $3
>Curtains Call $3
>Sol Ring $3
>Ash Barrens $3
>Reliquary Tower $3

Invent Superiority
>Breya $12
>Bruse Tarl $6
>Solemn Simulacrum $4
>Magus of the Will $4
>Master of Etherium $4
>Daretti $3
>Baleful Strix $3
>Silas $3
>Sol Ring $3
>Ash Barrens $3

Open Hostility
>Conquerer's Flail $8
>Ravos $6
>Tymna $5
>Stonehoof Chieftain $5
>Lighting Greaves $4
>Iroas $4
>Sol Ring $3
>Ash Barrens $3

Stalwart Unity is the only one that doesn't have much in the way of top dollar cards, but it does have a fair amount of $2-$3 so that it's still easily above MSRP.

>>53469390

regular looting effects are solid like faithless looting and careful study, im also big fan of thirst for knowledge and compulsive research, more so than normal looting because they keep my hand full while i pitch only the fatties

you can never go wrong with fact or fiction. in my sedris deck, my playgroup has started giving me 0-5 fact or fiction splits because its impossible to come up with piles that dont benefit me

i also have a foil sphinx of uthuun (aka sphinx of fact or fiction) that puts in work for the same reason. i love to discard and reanimate him in the early game to set up my hand and gy for later when sedris comes down

one underrated guy i like is combustible gearhulk. my sedris deck has lots of 6 mana fatties and such so people cant really afford to choose the mill option, there's too high a chance that i dome them for 10 and put a fatty in the yard, so im getting an easy draw 3 whenever i trigger him

this might be an unpopular opinion but i actually dont recommend running teferi's veil and sundial of the infinite in sedris. it IS sweet to be able to keep things you unearth, but it feels like too many moving parts for me, i prefer to just unearth etb effects that are so good i dont need them to stick around, such as bogardan hellkite, duplicant, rune-scarred demon, etc. because that way all my cards are good and effective even if sedris is offline. it just feels terrible to have win more jank in your hand like sundial when your opponents are trying to shut down your main game plan

on the other hand, conjurer's closet, ghostly flicker/displace and such DO seem worth it because they can value ultra hard when your unearth game is going but they dont suck and rot in your hand when things are slower for you. you can ghostly flicker your bone shredder and mulldrifter in the early game, and later on you're unearthing an inferno titan for 3 damage, swinging for 9, and then flickering for another 3, and keeping your titan for next turn

>>53469516
Thanks a bunch for the advice. In addition to Conjurer's Closet, I'm also liking Mimic Vat. Getting to re-unearth stuff seems pretty sick.

>>53469390
Don't just self-mill, take advantage of Grixis' array of fine "Draw, discard" or similar spells to fill your graveyard.

>Ancient Excavation
>Breakthrough
>Careful Study
>Cathartic Reunion
>Compulsive Research
>Drastic Revelation
>Faithless Looting
>Forbidden Alchemy
>Frantic Search
>Ideas Unbound
>Izzet Charm
>Probe
>Pull from Tomorrow
>Pulse of the Grid
>Read the Runes
>Shattered Perception
>Thirst for Knowledge
>Tolarian Winds

>>53469569

mimic vat is insanely good, and it also has the side benefit that grixis's removal options are slightly weak to enchantments and you can use mimic vat to get reclamation sage and acidic slime triggers from your opponents' decks

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>>53469390
This is looking like it's going to be extremely good in Sedris. Not only does it reduce it down to 1B for every Unearth, Sedris and other Zombies can dig for fuel.

>>53467774
Honestly, you're probably better off focusing on Rith or Ghave as a commander. Most of the fungus cards are just too slow to actually pay off unless it's psychotrope thallid in a Rith deck. Between Rith and Ghave its really down to playing combo with Ghave vs something more punchy with Rith.

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>>53469671
It can also become combo-mill in the right circumstances.

>>53469493
Stalwart Unity is great for tearing apart to make a Zedruu or Phelddagrif deck, and that's really about it.

>>53468446
>>53468680
>>53468881
I read that original reply as anon meaning expensive as in money, not mana cost.

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>>53466788
My first commander deck was Devour for Power. I havent rebuilt jello man since

Is chrome mox worth playing in commander ?

>>53466788
First commander deck was Hazezon Tamar warrior tribal. It ran a bunch of just generally lackluster warriors just to stay on theme. It could win, but it was only so-so at ramping, tutoring, and consistently getting out the pieces it needs to go off. I have of course massively updated it over time to what it is now. Save for a few expensive cards, or anything strictly better that gets printed in the future, I consider it finished.

>>53466788
>What was your first Commander deck like?

Intet Dragon Tribal. I just crammed a bunch of dragons into it, most of which were just big flying beaters. It was... well, the initial version definitely did not play well.

I've refined it multiple times since then, and it's gotten much better. All of my dragons either do something when they ETB or when they attack/damage, plus the mana fixing is much better. There are a few cards I still need to replace, but it's a pretty solid deck and wins more often than not since its last revision. I actually won tonight with multiple combat steps from Hellkite Charger and Commander Damage against a very good Trostani deck.

>>53470122
no, imprinting your shit is dumb
run mox opal or diamond before chrome

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>>53466788
I've been mostly playing 1v1 back then. My first paper deck I've built was picrelated, because I couldn't afford Thrun at the time. It was blasted to all hell by control players, I've never won a match. Then I've built Mizzix - same shit. Then I did a mono-black control and it started to get much better from there, as I've built a collection of older cards.

It was all ~4 years after I've started playing EDH on Cockatrice, so all the losses to pimped out decks did hurt

>>53469961
All these Mimeoplasms, which could be bringing joy to a dozen of players

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>>53470235

Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond are both very good.

>>53470122
In competitive metas: obviously
In non-comp metas: If your deck has enough card advantage.

It's a powerful card in my Tyma/Sidar Death and Taxes deck but I've got heaps of 2 drops and card draw out the ass.

sidris anon here, did a test game with sedris and it performed really well
decklist for those who might want it: https://deckstats.net/deck-13230397-f6e9da0e0dba50e273e3837610998f0b.html

>>53470528
Can't navigate that list for crap, so does it have a Sindial of the Infinite, Conjurer's Closet and Teferi's Veil in it?

>>53470122
Run Chrome Mox if you have enough card advantage. Otherwise run Mana Crypt or something.
Run Mox Diamond if you have enough card advantage, and especially if you like pitching lands.
Run Mox Opal if you run plenty of artifacts.

>>53470381
"Very good" in the sense that cards like veil of autumn, and chain of vapor are very good. That is to say, amazing in competitive environments where the first 3 turns of the game are the most important.

In "normal" commander they are merely OK. Chain is outclassed by rift here, despite it costing twice as much. I would rather run 1 CMC dorks than chrome Mox, and some of the 2 CMC rocks.

The kind of person that Mox is good for is also the kind of person that would never be in a position to ask the question.

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>>53469390
This card did serious work when I had a Sedris deck. I need to rebuilt it at some point, it was fun. I prefer looting over self-mill with him as you can play a bit more like a control deck and just discard the fatties whilst drawing more counters/removal.

>>53466788
>What was your first Commander deck like?
Progenitus Goodstuff.

I only built casual 60-card decks before getting into EDH so that deck was utterly messy. It had gems like fucking Scute Mob and Cao Cao in there.

>>53469390
>good self-mill

I can't say it's good, but Mirror-Mad Phantasm is self mill.

I'd like to make lands.dec, but I'm not a huge fan of landfall (except the best goodstuff ones) and I'd rather like to focus on the utility lands themselves. What are the best general choices for this? Titania, Noyan Dar, somebody else?

What's with the price spike on Reyhan, what's going on?

>>53471793
Child of Alara, accept no substitute

>>53471813
Maybe for use in a Ramos deck?

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My first EDH deck was an Arjun deck. It was pretty ambitious since I was pretty new to Magic at the time and my friend had been playing his entire life.
We played on an online programme in a 1v1v1 and I destroyed one of them with my combo before decking myself due to being a moron.

>>53469493
>invent superiority
>solemn
nope

>>53472135
did you play a card draw doubler? because that'll fuck you up

>>53471813
Duel Commander, Reyhan + Vial Smasher

>>53466788
My first commander was Niv Mizzet, it was pretty bad.

I remember my first game trying it out against a friend it was 1v1 and I got isochron scepter + boomerang on turn 2.

I still have my Niv Mizzet deck and it is one of my most powerful decks now, and super pimped.

>>53472217
Wasn't the memecombo Vial + Thrasios? I don't see how Reyhan fits the big picture

>>53472265
Vial + Thrasios is multiplayer.

Reyhan is better for the new super aggro 20 hp 1v1 format.

>>53472265
It was actually Vial+Kraum for Grixis Control.

>>53472265
You are right, disregard other posters. There is absolutely no reason to run any other combination

>>53466788
>What was your first Commander deck like?

meren, i bought the precon and 2 others for my play group like a year ago so we could try out the format

>>53466788
I bought Meren's precon and proxied almost all the cards to make a cutthroat combo deck, quicly found out how unfun it was to play so i reverted it back to his precon state and worked up from there.

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i'm making a deck that runs phage the untouchable and is capable of throwing her out on turn 2-4 to swing at a guy, wish me luck

I always hear how people have some decks for 5 or 7 years. How do you even do that? I've spent more time chasing different wizards for my Azami deck than I've spent playing, because the theme was growing old and I took it apart. And that's one of the decks that has been around for ages.

>>53473296
helps to have a healthy meta in your play group. you should be constantly tuning and changing your decks to deal with new problems in your meta

>>53469390
Loot or Tutor To Grave, don't just selfmill. Entomb, Buried Alive, Gifts Ungiven, Intuition, Merfolk Looter and friends, that sort of stuff.

While I'm on the topic of Sedris, here's your top-end tech of the day: Teferi's Veil and/or Sundial of the Infinite

>>53473296
Because I have 12 different EDH decks.

So a few get moved into the "never take apart" category, if I'm tired of playing them I just play other decks for a while.

>>53473393
But the core concept gets old nonetheless

>>53473480
Are they made of suboptimal stuff, or do you own multiples of pretty expensive cards? I can't afford to have more than three decks, because they start to overlap and require generous swapping of cards. Don't even get me started about the mana bases

>>53473661
Let's just say I have four cradles and over 100 fetch lands.

>>53473727
Well, that figures. I still don't have a single one

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How do I build atraxa without being a complete faggot?

>>53473793
Evolve/bolster +1/+1 counters aggro

>>53473793
Phyrexia theme deck

What's the best counterspell in EDH and why is it Rewind?

>>53473839
That's a really weird way to spell Mana Drain

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>>53473839
That's not Pyroblast/REB/Guttural Response

>>53473839
That's not Mental Misstep

>>53473839
I don't think that's how you spell Swan Song...

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>>53466788
still my favorite to this day
jank combo and throwbacks to the good old days

>>53473459

>gifts ungiven

if only

>>53474065
Yeah, banned, fuck my shit.

>>53474120
>>53474065
Last week a guy at my LGS tried to cast a Coalition Victory the turn after dropping his commander (Scion).

Was pretty funny watching his reaction as we explained to him that card was banned when he thought he had won.

I want a deck that would abuse forced discard, messed draw and sacrifice effects (like Braids, Contamination, Gibbering Descent, Kuon, Descent into Darkness etc) on creatures, artifacts and enchantments. Black is a must, but what else? I guess it needs some reliable token makers. Also would it be good enough without MLD sorceries and tax effects?

>>53474258
Nath seems up your alley. Nath + Sadistic Hypnotist will shred everyone else's hands whilst making you a bunch of elves to sacrifice to something like Attrition

>>53474258
Nath of the Gilt-Leaf

Token generator and discard in one.

>>53473839
>>53473859
>>53473872
>>53473883

These must be various foreign language translations for "Disallow"

>>53474354
>>53474352
Sounds good to me. Do I go mana dork/elf lord/coat of arms route, waste not/discard effects or silly stax artifacts?

>>53474430
Whichever one you think would be the most fun for you. Personally I don't like elves so I'd go with a mix of discard and stax.

>>53474400
>1UU
Ew.

>>53474430
A focus on discard and stax, but with a few elf lords (particularely the ones that tap for tons of mana) to take advantage of the elf tokens

>>53474354
>>53474430
>>53474533
i'm a different anon who's also been theorycrafting nath

is he really that interesting to play, though? seems like the only two possible outcomes are locking out the board on turn 4-5 or getting hatefucked to kingdom come

>>53474578
Yup, guy at my LGS tried to make a stax nath and that was typically the outcome.

>>53474597
yeah that doesn't sound too fun.

i think i'd rather build something grindier instead, something that starts slower, doesn't draw as much hate but still seeks a board state where it's the only deck that can do anything.

any recommendations? i was kind of thinking of nu-liliana but she seems a little too janky

>>53474637
Savra? She was one of my first generals and I had fun with her but then Meren came out and completely overshadowed her.

>>53474578
>>53474637
I've played a few games with him before, but it mostly was against optimised 1v1 decks which were faster. I guess border of interesting lies around Leovold - you get an effectively costed commander and the best colors, but he is so easy to go degenerate they had to ban him. With Nath I went elf tribal route, because I liked the colors better than monogreen, but it wasn't too flashy, because people kept messing with my board. Slowly bleeding opponents out seems viable, since Nath is a stax engine in itself - in a command zone, no less.

Why should he draw hate I don't quite understand. People can spend removal on him, but that is about it.

>something that starts slower, doesn't draw as much hate but still seeks a board state where it's the only deck that can do anything

The thing is, are your opponents dumb? It seems to me that you can only really win in EDH with politics and explosive plays, explosive play in that case being a hard lock and politics will never work for stax. I tried to build this list with Endrek Sahr and a lot of gorgeous cards, but they weren't backbreaking enough and Sahr is just a 2/2 that is always collateral damage.

>feel confident about my 100 card deck
>browse some cards and end up adding 40 new to the deck

send help. idk what to cut

>>53474850
Post list

>>53474850
...the cards that have the same functions as the ones you added? The really bad ones that you thought were "spicy" but are actually just overconditional trash?

So what are some Edric wincons a part from labman and craterhoof?

I'm actually wonder how good Ghave is and is it worth dismantling my Karador for. Easier option is Mazirek and a harder one is Atraxa, but I think the middle ground is best. Never tried him, but he looks like he is able to do quite a number of combos, which may lead to game sequences like "draw card, play land, pithing needle naming Ghave, go". Blue effects in Atraxa are useful, though she isn't as good of an engine and 4 color manabase can fuck you over imo

>>53474906
I builded Ghave and can confirm that the fucker can combo with even the fucking table, sleeves and air around it. I ended up dismantling it and building a more tame +1/+1 deck with Atraxa since my group didn't like him at all.

>>53474889
triumph of the hordes

overrun

psychosis crawler (kinda)

biomass mutation

>>53474889
Your opponents conceding when you draw 10 cards every turn and cast the 6th extra turn spell in a row.

>>53474931
I think manacost on his abilities is the most holding back factor. How do you go around it? I can only think of Ashnod and Doubling season out

>>53474970
Earthcraft.

>>53467255
Aggravated Assault + Savage Ventmaw

>>53474970
There are a bunch of cards that make him go infinite usually you need something that sacs/taps creatures for mana, something that puts +1/+1 counters on creatures when they etb or die and something to double tokens/counters, with ashnod you don't even need the doubler or the +1/+1 counter generator, one of them will suffice and give you infinite everything in the first case and infinite mana + infinite etb/death triggers in the second case.

>>53473839
Mana Drain is the best. Disallow is a close contender for its flexibility. Cryptic is a solid third for it's ability to be a wincon but I would never run in 2+ color decks. Swan Song and Arcane Denial for 4th and 5th.

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>>53466788

Is pic related the best Mono-white Commander?
Is pic related the best Voltron commander?

He looks fucking strong on paper.

>>53475258
Summary dismissal then for maximum flexibility

>>53475278
No and hell no. Neither of those card types is an effective mana investment and the gnome doesn't do anything on his own

>>53475278
The best mono-white commander is Linvala Keeper of Silence in a 1v1 against another mono-color deck.
:^)

Daily reminder that if you run Blood Moon effects and/or MLD you deserve to die alone and no one will remember you existed.

Also I'm not mad or anything.

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>>53475393

>>53475356
>>53475278
Fuck, can't even get my shitposts right. Iona, Shield of Emeria.

>>53475258
>Cryptic is a solid third for it's ability to be a wincon but I would never run in 2+ color decks.

It's no harder to hit than Grave Pact. I guess it all depends on just how exacting your mana base is.

Gonna start playing some casual EDH with my Legacy play group. I'm terrible at EDH because I can't into multiplayer and politics very well. However, I don't think we are making are decks very cutthroat. Just trying to have some fun when we have downtime.

I kind of want to make Oloro because I like the passive lifegain. I figured I'd make some sort of controlish deck but I'm not really sure what cards are good enough to play. Does anyone have any links to decent Oloro lists?

>>53473113
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=50129

>>53470381
Chrome Mox is weaker than the other two.

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Recently built ayli orzohov deck any staple stufff or tech i need to know

>>53475698
Same loss of hand advantage as Mox Diamond for less colors, and Mox Opal is going to be easy to use in any deck where you run it.

>>53475762
So you're agreeing with me? It's also exiled vs pitched into the GY

>>53475789
Yes.

>>53474637
>i think i'd rather build something grindier instead, something that starts slower, doesn't draw as much hate but still seeks a board state where it's the only deck that can do anything.
Glissa

>>53473113
How do you get her from the command zone to your hand?

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>>53476551
A card was literally printed to assist with this

>>53476551
It's not a Phage deck, it's a deck with Phage.

>>53473826
Working on that at the moment.

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Just to double check as I am not 100% on the rules, will rings of brighthearth work on xenagos, god of revels or is it just strionic resonator that works with him?

>>53476762
>rings of brighthearth
Are looking for activated abilities, xenogas is a triggered ability.

>>53476762
Xenagos is a triggered ability on entering combat.

>>53476551
Torpor Orb or Sundial of the Infinite can help

>>53476762
use strionic and than rings to copy the strionic ability

>>53476945
We have a winner.

>>53472135
i had a old deck that was UR mindmoil burn/mill that ive been wanting to covert to an edh deck. originally i was going to head with timor/lumia to wipe the board all day, but that was before arjun which is pretty much teferis puzzle box as a commander.

Alright /edhg/, I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more. I've always tried to play fun and quirky games with my friends, and it always ends the same way: We all hide behind our massive fields too afraid to swing at each other until one of us draws a combo that kills the whole table, and it's usually one of them, because I feel guilty picking on any one of them before they have aggressed me. Last night was the last straw, when one of my friends knew I was going to destroy all the enchantments, so he made nice eyes at me, and on his turn he used his enchants to make himself invulnerable while he blew everything up and killed us all with our own monsters. WELL NO MORE. The gloves are coming off and I'll be screwing people from turn 1 as often as possible. I was hoping you might be able to recommend me a commander and some support cards capable of either A) Protecting me from three people simultaneously while I slowly pick them off. Or B) Actively rewards the entire table for swinging at each other indiscriminately.

>>53476945
>not animating strionic and equipping it with illusionist's bracers, then copying it with rings, then untapping it with voltaic key and doing it all again

>>53477190
Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist.

>>53477190
>people building big, hard to disrupt boards
Stealing effects.

>>53477196
Where's your Panharmonicon? Where is your Prototype Portal with an imprinted Sculpting Steel? Where's your Doubling Season and Clock of Omens so each of the Scultping Steel token Panharmonicons can untap the Prototype Portal and make more? Where's your Mycosynth Lattice so you can make token copies of Doubling Season and use those token copies to untap and create more token copies?

If you aren't copying your triggered abilities at least 4,294,967,296 times, what can you really say you even accomplished? Step it up, anon.

What's a good deck to play just to have in case some beginners join our game so they don't feel like they got wrecked and where I wouldn't have to pull punches and baby them?
I was thinking maybe one of the precons that's not meren, atraxa, breya, or ydris .

Possibly phelddagrif but I'd need a good decklist

>>53477190
ruhan. low cmc commander that you can cast earlier than t4 with the right lands/rocks before everyone else gets going. you have enough cheap counters/evasion to make sure he stays on board and land direct hits. assault suit gives him more attacks while making sure he doesnt hit you. the vow enchantments will ensure you cant get hit by him if someone decides to steal him for some reason while giving buffs. also remember to use stuff that targets any creature in case you want to buff ruhan while he isnt under your control.

What are the best looting creatures if Jace, Vryns Prodigy is out of my price range?

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>>53477190
also what >>53477223 said, stealing shit is always good. personally i prefer memnarch or sen triplets when i wanna be a nigger

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>>53477190

>>53466788
It was the precon mono black deck but i replaced the commander with sheoldred.
I am still thwumping people with it to this day.
God damn it feels so good to just let kill spells go

Coul wizards print a card that read "as you cast this card move it to the bottom of the stack below every other card cast so far this phase", and what, if anything, could such a ability be tacked onto that would actually be useful?

>>53477783
Casting Hex is the best feel

>>53477814
>"as you cast this card move it to the bottom of the stack below every other card cast so far this phase"

Why?

>>53475278
My favorite Mono White is Isamaru Hound of Konda. I used to play him all the time for 1v1 before my decks got stolen.

I've just started trying to get into magic and I want to try out commander. I've pulled 2 Hapatras, so I'm taking that as a sign that I need to go snakes. Would that be a good card to build around or would I just be viewed as a scumbag for amassing a billion snakes and doing infinite damage shenanigans?

>>53477905
She's pretty legit, one of the best from the new sets, with a lot from Amonkhet that a new player can build with

>>53477190
Grenzo, Havoc Raiser, and force them to attack each other.

>>53477905
You could be a scumbag and turn into a sac fest and burn people with blood artist.

Or you could make it scary by using beastmaster's ascension and other stuff like Druids' Repository for free mana and Eldrazi Monument to make things even worse.

>>53477814
Doubtful. There's one card in the entirety of Magic that directly acknowledges the stack, and it's pure jank.

>>53477814
Wizards doesn't like explicitly referencing the stack in rules text. Also, no, that's retarded. Anything that would accomplish could also be accomplished by just waiting for every spell on the stack to resolve and then casting it. The only interaction it would be relevant for is something so unbelievably narrow as to be basically unimportant, like if you have Undead Warchief and someone casts a wrath, you'd be able to cast a Zombie with Flash and that ability for the reduced cost without it eating the wrath too.

>>53478438
which is it?

>>53477905
Use blood artist AND beastmaster ascension stuff.

>>53477905
i have an infect hapatra deck that everyone hates which gives me endless joy. hearing everyone collectively grown when i pull it out is literally the best thing ever. i recommend that

>>53478438
>>53478492
Actually it's:
>Every card with Split Second (reminder text)
>Every End the Turn effect (reminder text)
>Ertai's Meddling
>Grip of Chaos
>Kaervek's Torch
>Lightning Storm
>Torrent of Lava

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>>53478492
Not sure what he's talking about, since there are a few cards that mention the stack outside of reminder text.

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>>53478609
But yeah most of them are jank.

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>>53478634

>>53478557
>Ertai's Meddling
These actually seems incredibly useful in some decks. A soft counter, that prevents them from recurring it/spelltwine etc.

>>53473793
I honestly haven't seen anyone make an atraxa deck that was super gay most of them are really slow and only win games that let you ramp/draw/tutor for the first 4 or so turns
So depending on your meta she might not even be a problem

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>>53478557
Ertai and Torrent don't explicitly mention the stack, but they do assume you know how it works.

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>>53478681

>>53477830
>Casting pox is the best feel

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>>53478665
You're usually better off using Delay. The only advantage Meddling has is that it doesn't give haste to creature spells once they resolve.

>>53478681
>>53478706
Check the Oracle Text, anon. You're behind the times.

>>53477814
>>53477847

If this ability was on a creature with Flash or an instant that creates tokens, it could subvert wraths. It would be extremely niche.

Alternatively, on a Time Stop, it could possibly make the card slightly cheaper, albeit worse.
Example: Sort-of-but-not-really Time Stop, UU3, Instant, Delay (This card cannot be cast unless there is another spell or ability on the stack, and does not resolve until all other spell and abilities on the stack have resolved. If multiple spells with Delay are on the stack, they resolve in the reverse order in which they were cast.) End the turn.

It's a Timmys worst nightmare kind of ability.

>>53478716
Meddling can also hit spells that can't be countered, but yeah, the advantages are small.

Odds of Skithiryx reprint in Commander 2017?

I need the card but paying the full price right now seems like a waste if it'll drop by 50%

>>53467550
Only if you have 2 or less life.

>>53477160
It's a really fun deck and you feel like everything is according to keikaku when you start to push your deck in and out of your hand to discard and redraw.
It takes a lot of fine tuning though and can be countered easily and doesn't deal well with early aggression.
I'd say it's pretty good for people not expecting it to fucking pop so quickly when you have all the pieces in place but for people expecting it you've really gotta play smart.

>>53479041
Low.
If it were going to be in the dragon deck, it would seem likely the person who spoiled the fuckton of Legendary dragons in it would have included it in their spoiler. That and they haven't printed anything else with Infect in a Commander precon, so I don't imagine they're fond of highlighting the nature of Infect in EDH.

>>53476926
>tfw Gripping Topor Orb in response to her casting or Stifling the Sundial ability
Phage is cool, but way too fragile and dangerous. Not to mention blinking her leads to issues, especially if she's not your commander.

>>53467456
They sell them on Amazon, Anon. You just have to email them the picture you want first, I may buy one soon.

>>53472135
How do you build this dude? Storm? He looks fun as fuck

>>53467456
>>53479255
Inkedgaming does custom mats and is currently doing a 20% off sale for Memorial Day.

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thoughts on pic related as an alternative for urborg? it costs like 20 cents instead of 15 dollars

>>53479415
I wouldn't dedicate an entire card or spend mana on Urborg. It's good because it's basically a free effect.

>>53479415
It's an alternative yes, but same as Magus of the Coffers there's a reason Urborg and Cabal Coffers cost as much as they do, and it's because they put down a degenerate effect for no mana.

>>53479415
Huh, another card where oracle text implies other effect. Reading that card, I would assume that Maze of Ith and Arena wouldn't get the effect, but apparently they are "mana-producing" enough that they get the effect

>>53479566
i know right, i was confused at first as well until i read the oracle.
>>53479444
>>53479438
urborg is indeed the better card, maybe i should treat myself and spend that extra cash. I just dont wanna go too deep into my first deck

>>53479257
Here's a pastebin of my list from untap.in
https://pastebin.com/Mu0rEDiM
I'm not the best so I think most EDH players could improve on this deck if they wanted to play it.

I usually focus on getting stuff like Layline, Dream Halls, a draw doubler and Mindmoil or Arjun down then start throwing out damage with Psychosis Crawler or Niv; recycling your discard into your deck again using Elixir of Immortality.

If all else fails you can always try to draw into Laboratory Maniac and just deck yourself.

>>53479603
What deck are you building? There's really no reason to get Urborg, unless you play more than 1 colours or you're hell bent for playing Coffers or any of the mana doublers and are worried if you can get enough swamps anyway.
Urborg is a pretty good card, but it's not necessary in any way

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>guy plays Nevermore
>names the mono-red guy's commander

>because he dropped a Wheel last game

EDH players never cease to amaze with their pettiness

>>53479816
I learned that hating on people for what they did in previous games is a good way to get on their "do not play with" list.

I got smacked around last all day Friday for playing Haptra and casting BSZ for 6 (netting me at least 12 sneks in the process) in the first game I joined in.

>>53479816
i remember that picture
fucking jazz man, it's INTENSE

>>53479816
This is why we just play 2v2 commander. Less politics, less saltiness. Just 2 teams fighting each other.

We dont have to deal with the post game "he focused me!!"

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>>53479913
Big Jay makes all the ladies and gents need new pants

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>>53468054

>>53480114
Holy shit

>>53468054
Why are they bullying him with hot dogs?

Why does "casual EDH" mean "anything other than literally the best deck in the entire world" to some fucking morons?

>>53479691
gonti. since it's my first deck i might be including shit i dont need. i have 130 potential cards (excluding basic lands) atm and according to deckbox.org the price is like 700 bucks.
i know i will not include crucible of worlds and dark depth so that's 100 dollars just there

so i need to cut down to 100 cards and try to keep an affordable price, hence why i was looking for urborg alternatives

My first two decks i made at about the same time. One was Horde of Notions elemental tribal the other was grimgrin zombie tribal. Both very budget and long disassembled

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>Buy a single EM booster for shits n giggles
>Crack a Foil Top

It still hurts

>>53475393
Daily reminder that if you're greedy enough to complain about Blood Moon, you deserve to get pegged by Ruination or Wave of Vitriol the turn before you would have done something cool every game for the rest of time.

>>53480566
>Search your library for a card, reveal it, and then shuffle your library.
Gets me every time.

>>53480566
>look at the top card of your graveyard

makes me kinda sad desu. there's some instersting cards that care about graveyard order but im not sure if i can play them since graveyard order isn't really a thing anymore

>>53479816

>Player comboes the table with Sisay on turn 3
>Next game, as soon as she's out I just Song of Dryads her ass because if she lives he wins
>He gets mad at me, why would you ruin my fun because what happened last game, yadda yadda

Sometimes these guys are fucking retards I swear

>>53473793

Infect

Just hit each one once with infect and start proliferating

>>53480251
Why does "competitive EDH" mean "anything other than my 7 average CMC Myojin of Cleansing Fire deck" to some fucking morons?

>>53472217

Every 1v1 list of 5-0's has Vial+Kraum

No mention of Reyhan. It's just speculators trying to buyout cards since the print run of C16 was too small. Same thing happened with Breya when she was 20$ 2 weeks ago and now is like 11$.

Artificial Inflation

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>>53480251

>Oh, it's not competitive, It still lacks Tabernacle and Timetwister
>mfw

>>53480827
You can, you just need to tell people you are first, because most people are used to casually reordering their grave even though you aren't really supposed to in EDH.

>People not realizing just how insane Reyhan + Ishai is

When will you single-commander plebs learn?

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> What was your first Commander deck like?

Pic Related and I still play her to this day.
Second commander I build was Trostanni and the first I bought was Jeleva's (Mind Seize)

>>53481320
>Get out my 7 CMC combo
>Get hit with any removal whatsoever
W E W

>>53481398
>Being a combofag

I beat face with a 21/21 flying bird.

>>53481417
You get hit by a Swords to Plowshares and cry.

>>53481457
>What is swiftfoot boots

>>53481467
Not instant speed.

>>53481320
>Play +1/+1 counter tribal
>Bring out Grimgrin
>Swing with your Hydra and Ishai
>They try to kill Ishai, you sac it and put it's counters on Hydra
>Or they try to kill Hydra, you sac it and put it's counters on Ishai
>Either way when you hit them they die.

Is Path to Exile worth if I'm packing removal like Swords to Plowshares and a decent amount of counterspells? I'm in UW.

>>53481597
It's only worth it if you have money to waste on that shit.

>>53481597
Depends how well your opponents do with extra mana. I usually prefer to run a board wipe over Path to Exile.

>>53481632
I'm running Wrath and Cyclonic Rift, but I'm not sure if I should run any more. Maybe Verdict.

>>53481597
i mean they are like 5 bucks and its an amazing removal spell, id put it in every deck i can

>>53469381
Wat

>>53481597
i'd say yes if you feel like your swords and counterspells aren't enough, it's overall a great spell

Other than Indestructible, regenerate, hexproof, shroud, or pro-shits, what other ways are there for me to keep my commander alive?

He can't leave play so no flickering or recursion.

>>53481882
I mean, that's pretty much it. Your only other options are flickering and reanimating.

>>53481882
counterspells

>>53481903
Alright good, was making sure I wasn't forgetting anything lol

>>53481838
>>53481769
My main reason for wanting it is because a guy in my group built a decent Animar deck recently, so I have to be able to keep him from comboing off with Animar and Ancestral Statue or Tidespout Tyrant. I know I can't hit Animar himself with it, but being able to get rid of combo pieces at instant speed helps. Counterspells usually get saved for Animar though. The problem is that I'm trying to balance removal and control elements with win conditions of my own. I feel like I may have too much removal.

>>53481944
I suppose >>53481931 is right as well. The best way to keep it alive is to make sure nothing comes near it to begin with.

>>53469381
>>53481818
My friend at my LGS used to own those. Got them for real cheap. Knew the original guy who got them altered. He looked exactly how you think he looked. They still make me laugh every time the image floats around.

>>53482002
Could they be restored?

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What *spicy* cards should I include for this big bad motherfucker?

>>53482056
Anything bolas themed, doesn't mean just cards that specifically mention bolas and what not. I think Treacherous Urge would fit.

>>53482056
hot soup
get it
get the joke
woo

>>53479041
Only makes sense for a reprint if it was going to end up in Iconic Masters, which I doubt, or maybe the Nicol Bolas Archenemy, but would be too much of a flavor fail there.

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>>53482056

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>>53482056
>>53482081

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How would you change these legends to fix them? The last one is obviously too good and the fourth has you jumping through too many hoops to get any use out of it.

>>53482211
I meant the third, not the fourth.

>>53482211
>>53482233
Third is fine for how cheap it is. Fifth just needs a cost, maybe 3 so it doesn't go infinite with Ornithopter and Ashnod's. Fourth may need something to prevent it casting your entire hand of free artifacts.

>>53480114
I've been looking for that edit for months, thanks!

>>53482211
There's actually a problem with the first. It doesn't specify who controls the creature it brings back.

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>>53480827
It totally is though. Most notably Phyrexian Furnace and Corpse Dance.
There's also pic related for shits and giggles

>>53482036
If yes, with little turpentine.
Although I heard that those were chinaman proxies and not genuine

is extraplanar lens good for 2-3 colour decks?
i opened an invention one

>>53482500
Those have been around far longer than chinaman fakes. I played against those duals about 5 years ago, and that same guy had the pony power. That was way before the influx of passable chinaman fakes.

>>53482442
It doesn't technically need to. It's one of those things like "cycle or discard" where they do it for clarity. It should still be changed though, admittedly.

>>53482444
This almost seems like they added the reorder clause just so you could safely shuffle your graveyard for the first part.

>>53482526

no

>>53482526
not really

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>>53481417

>Prossh player thinks he's any better

>>53482526
Maybe for 2 color, so long as it's predominantly of 1. Not at all for 3.

>>53482741
Nigga is you retarded? He said he plays Ishai/Reyhan

>>53482100
Make a loss edit of this

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>>53482755

Sorry, I'm traumatized, literally the first thing that came to my mind

what look do you get if you play Derevi?
abusing tap/untap and being able to play her for cheap all the time sounds cool

>>53482878
People don't trust you, because Derevi is notorious for bullshit.

>>53482878
You get the "Kill you now" look because Derevi is unaffected by commander tax and if you untapping becomes a problem, it's almost fucking impossible to stop short of killing you.

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What are some self-sufficient wincons in big black mana? Typically for those situations when I'm up against only 1-2 players and I need to close things out

I don't really want to play

>exsanguinate (doesn't really win without literal tons of mana)
>dread summons (kinda random and scales with player count)
>rise of the dark realms (no synergy, would be weak)

But then I do have

>Army of the Damned
>Phage the Untouchable
>black Myojin (considering)
>pic related, considering since I run a lot of board wipes

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>>53482211
That's not even Wedgeanon's best work.

>>53483266 new thread

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Am I a scrub for thinking these babies would be a good addition to a Boros deck? I'm already running 35 lands and 6 rocks

>>53483308
they aren't very good rocks if that's what you're asking. the best thing about 2-mana rocks is that you typically get 1 mana back when you cast them. those ones don't do that. but they're not awful if you're lacking in colored mana, like if you're quickly trying to ramp up to a big devotion-heavy drop or something

you should have a ton of other, better options for ramp though

>>53480566
>Becoming an o/4 defender
>Not a 4/o
You fail

>>53483354
>hey aren't very good rocks
bullshit they are fantastic
you need that colored mana turn 3 m8
take out ever single copy of worn powerstone you own
throw them in the garbage
because they are shit compared to these

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Shirei Stax with contamination and infernal darkness.

>>53483241
Hatred

>>53467308
Doesn't approach of the second sun just win you the game if you give it rebound?

>>53486571
"If it was casted from your hand"

Nope

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>>53485755
Here's your (you), now get out. Worn Powerstone is a 3-drop that makes 2 mana at a time, hardly at all comprable to a 2-makes-1 at the same speed. The diamonds fit in budget or extremely hungry mana bases.

>>53485755
They are literally only playable if you have a 4 CMC commander you really want to drop turn 3. Since they come into play tapped, that makes all the 3 drop rocks with upside better than them at all other points of the game. You could play ingot for indestructible, commanders sphere for replacing itself, lantern for ultimate fixing, etc.

Talismans and signets are much better, and that's 15 budget rocks right there before we get into the 3 drop rocks that are just better when you don't have a CMC 4 commander that you want to run out early.

>>53485755
>2 mana tapped rocks

Nigga they are fucking awful. There a million better rocks at 2 mana. You are just a budget dellusional faggot.