/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

I'm playing an arcane trickster and my gm just said I could take my spells from any 2 schools of magic instead of just illusion and enchantment.

What spells/schools are worth considering? I don't normally play casters, so I'm at a bit of a loss.

My character's ideal is "I'm a thief, not a murderer", so try not to recommend spells that have no other use than to fuck someone up.

>>53448061
Oh god not this again

Ayo hol up

>>53448066
Transmutation and conjuration are always helpful and versatile, which would be useful for a thief.
Honestly, illusion is of least use to a rogue because he can already do a lot of that sort of stuff without using magic.

>>53448073
If you want something to not come up again, why drag it into a new thread instead of leaving it in the old, dying thread?

>>53448073
There are other ways of learning spells other than being a murderhobo.

Sorry guys. One more thing before I go to sleep cause more hospital appointments...

What's the recommended Read Order for all the books?

Assuming I'll be dipping my hand into DMing that is.

Starter Set Rules (I assume are the same as Free Basic Rules?) --> PHB --> DMG --> MM --> SCAG --> EE --> Volo's?

If I'm not, will the Starter --> PHB --> SCAG --> EE ---> DMG ---> MM ---> Volo's be best?

Or does it not particularly matter? Or should it be Starter --> PHB and then any order after t hat?

Thanks in advance.

>>53448066
Hold person

>>53448073
What do you dislike about the vanilla rules allowing spell learning through killing stuff anon?

>>53448066
This isn't relevant to your question, but has anyone ever tried playing the opposite ideal? "I'm a murderer, not a thief." That seems like it would be more interesting.

>>53448094
>Starter Set Rules (I assume are the same as Free Basic Rules?) --> PHB --> DMG --> MM --> SCAG --> EE --> Volo's?
This

>>53448094
If you want to be a DM, the first one is the exact order.

>>53448130
>This isn't relevant to your question, but has anyone ever tried playing the opposite ideal? "I'm a murderer, not a thief." That seems like it would be more interesting.
I ran an arcane trickster that was an assassin. Spells focused on inflicting pain and getting into/out of areas unseen.

It was fun.

>>53448130

>I'm a murderer, not a thief

So, just a regular PC then?

how much does it cost to pay a dude to identify some magic objects?

>>53448166
I'd say PCs are more of a "why not both" type situation

>>53448166
regular PCs wouldn't balk at stealing things.

I'm talking about a guy who sees nothing wrong with murder, maybe even takes pride in it, but will absolutely refuse to steal anything.

So like Krombopulos Michael but with one moral compunction.

>>53448171
Why not just spend an hour with the item, and automatically identify it?

>>53448089
>Honestly, illusion is of least use to a rogue because he can already do a lot of that sort of stuff without using magic.
Blur and mirror image are pretty decent for a rogue

>>53448139
>>53448153
Thanks lads.

>>53448027
>>53447329
That's what I mean by "play them up".

No create food and water.
Lesser restoration has expensive components added (possibly different prices for each type of effect).
Remove curse only removes one curse at a time, and is not free.
Resurrection spells cost more, or have some non-financial cost such as those mentioned in 3.x heroes of horror.

Make the ways of ignoring those issues less easily had.

Is that a bad idea for a survival heavy campaign?

>>53448340
>Is that a bad idea for a survival heavy campaign?
Ask the group if they want it. Some people are into it, some aren't

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CoS game coming up soon.

Should I conspire with my fellow players and have us all make monstrous races character sheets unbeknowns to the DM and drop them all on him at the start of the first session?

>>53448383
That's kind of shitty of you guys.

t. a DM.

Other than PAM, what can I do to get some good bonus actions on a Barbarian? Storm Herald.

>>53448383
I don't get it

What's a good module to run for new players? I wanted to run CoS, but it seems like it's probably too unforgiving for them.

>planning on running LMoP for strangers on roll20
Someone talk me out of it please

>>53448429
shield master
GWM
charger

>>53448435
Lost Mines.

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>>53448458

>>53448435
I'm doing lost mine into curse of strahd for my new group

>>53448458
No game is better than a bad game.

>>53448383
sure if you want your DM to have you all remake characters, thus wasting that session.

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>>53448524
>midori akujin

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>Only have a session every other week
>It only lasts 2-3 hours

Most fun fighter type?

Thinking monster hunter or samurai

>>53448581
>supposed to have a weekly session
>winds up being every other week because someone always fucks up their schedule the day before
>only 2-3 hours because someone has to go to bed at 8 fucking pm every day

>>53448582
Battlemaster is the only fun Fighter.

>>53448027
What's the most fun type of character to play in 5e?

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>>53448599
>Half the party didnt even show up even having one session per two weeks

>>53448599
are you my group?

Every fucking week, we start at the same time, on the same fucking day. Every god damn time "sorry guys, had to do some stuff." It's like BITCH WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR THREE YEARS NOW! HOW HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED TO SCHEDULE SOMETHING THE DAY BEFORE OR AFTER?

>>53448646
>>53448639
This is why I'm making a campaign and I don't care who the fuck shows up late or not at all. Did you have to go make dinner for gram-gram? Your character got left at the fucking inn. Were we in the middle of a dungeon last session? Your character has crippling diarrhea or something, or we're playing a completely different side-adventure right now.
>D&D Gaiden

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>>53448581
>2 sessions a week
>each 5 hours

>>53448613
Why

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>on a flying beetle in a cave with my party
>tendrils come down from the ceiling to grab most of us
>I get out of it because DM rolled a 12 and my AC is 15
Feels so good when that happens.

>>53448629
Best is always personal prefrence

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>>53448702
Why do you try to hurt me

>>53448524
>Longest campaign: over a month
OVER A MONTH YOU SAY? WOOOOOW

>>53448613
For you. Lots of players like EK. I've even heard rumors of a Champion who enjoyed the game. Couldn't verify them, though.

>>53448679
I've experienced this and while it's not ideal it certainly beats micromanaging 3 afk PCs between us

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>>53448744
>grappling against AC

>>53448751
People who like EK also enjoy playing Champion, because that's exactly what they're doing. They are playing a Champion without extra crits, and the only time they ever cast a spell is when they get hit so they can say "no that didn't hit me" or "i have resistance to that damage".

Find me an EK that doesn't have Shield and Absorb Elements.
Pro Tip: YOU CAN'T

>>53448768
obviously they were sticky tentacles that passively ensare things
you think some cave creature is just blasting sonar or staring into the inky darkness so it knows every time something is near its tendrils? fuck no
biology, son

>>53448801
But it had sonar to know you were there to lower the tendrils.
Internal logic 0/5

>>53448780
>Find me an EK that doesn't have Shield and Absorb Elements.
>Pro Tip: YOU CAN'T

Shit anon, when you're forced to choose between shitty evocation and highly synergistic abjuration what would you choose?

>>53448768
That's how most NPCs do it, usually as part of another attack.

>>53448819
No, it heard the beetle.

>>53448768
It's like that for many monster attacks.

>>53448854
Yeah, but doesn't it usually have a saving throw?

>>53448646
Good god.

If you're not ever going to show up, then you're not invited.

If I don't have at least 4 players I won't run a session. So I try to have at least 5 players, but showing up is a fucking necessity.

I'm also not a fan of when you get that player who won't build their own character or never levels them up, and expects someone else to do it for them so they just have to show up on game day and not actually do anything themselves.

>>53448879
Nope. Usually it's auto-grapple on a hit with a set escape DC if the target tries to escape later.

>>53448237
it really works like that?

>>53448885
Every god damn week:
>hey guys gonna be late today, my parents needed help moving a couch from one room to another

A.) They couldn't move the couch on sunday?
2.) Why did it take three hours to move the couch from one room to another?

>>53448891
Had to check and seems I was wrong.

>>53448935
Tell them they can't keep everyone waiting. Put their other shit on a different day. If they can't, tell them as far as your concerned they have shown themselves to have a scheduling conflict with the game and are effectively unavailable on game day, and they can't continue to make everyone wait for them, it's very inconsiderate. Either find a way to fit the game into their schedule or find another game.

This goes double if you're not friends with them outside of gaming.

>>53449014
not the DM, sadly.

Which maneuvers should I take as a battle master? I'm gonna be the party's tank and main source of melee damage. Should I go sword and board or two handed weapon? It's my first time playing a fighter

>>53449045
Ugh. Talk to your DM about it and tell them how frustrating it is to everyone else.

Is the one holding up the group the dm's girlfriend or something?

>>53449073
Trip, if your party is heavy on melee.
Parry, if you're the only thing approaching a tank.
Disarm, if you think you'll be fighting plenty of humanoids.
Riposte, if you're the big damage dealer.
Lunging, if you're Bugbearmont.
Pushing, if your DM will facilitate your environmental shenanigans.
Precision, if you want to spam GWM / Sharpshooter.
Menacing, A L W A Y S .
Commander's, if you have a Rogue.

>>53449090
nah we're all bros, but shit some of those assholes are unreliable. Problem is, when one asshole does it, fine we play without them, when two assholes do it, or when one person actually has some real life shit to deal with (hey it happens) then we get screwed.

For the few times that i did run a game, we started promptly at 3, anyone who wasn't there, wasn't there.

>>53449137
>tfw I was about to type this out verbatim again
Thanks, bro.

>>53449150
I'm thankful to you for making it in the first place.
Especially since it's very æsthetically organised.

One of my players is fond of the Catapult spell, which raises a question in my mind - I was thinking of using a Flesh Golem next session, and their damage immunity says they're immune to B/S/P damage from nonmagic, non-adamantine weapons. Does this immunity extend to bludgeoning damage from the spell?

RAW it seems not, but I'm not sure if that makes much sense to me. On the other hand, it already gets advantage on the save, and there's not a lot of options to hurt the thing since there's only one magic weapon in the group (though two have access to Shilellagh).

>>53449273
>and there's not a lot of options to hurt the thing since there's only one magic weapon in the group (though two have access to Shilellagh).
there's always fire anon, good ol' fashioned, american fire.

>>53449303

Fair point; the golem doesn't ignore fire damage (which it did in 3.5 even if it Slowed the golem).

To those who were less than impressed by Wizard's efforts, how would you design the classes or what would you keep or change?

>>53449392
Sorcerer getting unique magic.

>>53449392
Sorcerer getting more meta magics

>>53449392
All martials have access to maneuvers
Barbarians-access to some melee AOE/CC
Monks-d10 hitdice, give them choice in stats (class powers choose between one of two stats)
Sorcerer-spell points by default, sorc exclusive spells

>>53449479
>melee AOE
Isn't that stepping on the rangers toes?

>>53449137
Thanks m8!

>>53449392
Giving sorcerers a smaller spell list

>>53449533
Not him but fuck rangers

>>53449533
>Isn't that stepping on the rangers toes?
Doesn't everything?

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>>53449392
Barbs don't need to hit or be hit every round to maintain Rage. Fuck that noise.

Sorcs get a few more SP and can spend one to change the elemental typing of a spell; major energies (fire / lightning / acid / cold) can be exchanged for each other, negative / positive can be exchanged, but force and thunder are stuck as-is. Sorc-only spells.

Fighters have an ASI at 10; Extra Attack x3 moved to 18, an actual capstone given at 20. Some kind of general utility ribbon that isn't linked to archetypes, given at a relatively low level (5-8) so they can fucking do something out of combat.

Monks to d10 HP, Charger for free at some point.

Remove Pact of the Blade from Warlocks so those fuckers stop trying to melee. No one wants you in their party. STOP. "Required" invocations that buff Eldritch Blast given for free. EB scaling fixed so none of this "lol I took one level of Warlock and now I have the best damage cantrip in the game at full power forever" shit.

Rogues get the Thief's Fast Hands by default. Replace the Thief's thing with something else.

Remove Bard.

Ranger spellcasting operates like a Paladin. All spells are known, and you can choose to memorize X each long rest. Why the fuck do they have one of the shittiest spell lists AND the shittiest known/mem/cast scheme?

Wizard players must wear a post-it note on their forehead that reads "DON'T LET THIS FUCKER GET AWAY WITH EVERYTHING" or their spells don't function.

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>>53449558
>Remove Bard.

FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS

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>>53449558
>Remove Bard.

>>53449558

>Barbs don't need to hit or be hit every round to maintain Rage. Fuck that noise.

You probably know this, but just in case you don't, it's important to note that a barbarian doesn't have to hit. He just has to *attack* (or take damage). So you can miss your attacks all day as long as you're making them. And it can be any attack, so if you keep some darts or javelins ready, you can throw one to keep your rage going if you can't get to an enemy, and the damage isn't horrible since you can use your Strength on it.

>>53449417
>>53449466
For example?

>>53449547
Why?

>>53449558
>Barbs don't need to hit or be hit every round to maintain Rage
I recently found out that they only need to make an attack (which can also be a grapple or shove attempt) in order to maintain rage. Makes it a lot more bearable. This also means they can throw a rock or weapon or whatever at an enemy at disadvantage just to have it persist if they're too far.

>>53449392
Remove sharpshooter
Remove GWM
Make all martials do slightly more damage to compensate

>>53449659
>as I turn the capstan to open the portcullis, I verbally attack the concept of trickle-down economics and let our foes know that the Laffer curve was debunked the day it was scrawled on a napkin

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>>53449600
>>53449639
Bards are stupid and casting spells by strumming your banjo is retarded.
Sorcerers, wizards and druids already represent the archetypes of magical prowess and bards just get magic "because".
A guy whistling real good shouldn't be able to rain down meteors.

I feel like letting all martials use battle master tactics, but I feel like that would dissuade people from fighter even further. Is there anything else I can give battle master to make him better, or is this just a bad idea all together?

>>53449695
>(You)

>>53449600
>>53449639
>Bardfags falling for such an obvious Vicious Mockery
This is why I have the most (You)s

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>>53449702
>A guy whistling real good shouldn't be able to rain down meteors.
Fuck you.

>>53449716
>not playing a Path of the Proletariat Barbarian
THE TRIBULATIONS OF THE WORKING CLASS FILLS ME WITH RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION AND A DESIRE TO SEIZE THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION

>>53449702
>Not wanting to play a lone ranger like character who uses a hand crossbow, knife, and a harmonica to use magic

It's like you don't want people to have fun

>>53449704
Make him a goddamn battle master and let them switch up their abilities on long rest?

>>53448027
Dragonlance is an absolutely shit setting, made all the more unbearable by its insufferable designers.

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>>53449751
If I'm a lone wanderer with a harmonica and a hand crossbow, I don't need magic to fucking kill you.

Anyone here run Princes of the Apocalypse? And is it good?

>>53448458
Buy some friends off the internet, keep them in your basement and force them to play dnd for food.

>>53449738
fuck off commie scum

>>53449776
No, but it's very fun to ready your bolt, pluck a string or whatever instrument, and turn them into a cactus. And then shoot them.

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>players never, EVER seem to loot enemies or rooms

Is this normal?

>>53449776
>tfw you'll never keep your lovin' brother happy

>>53449479
>All martials have access to maneuvers
Can we stop with this meme
Some people don't like maneuvers and you should have the option to play without them.
However, every martial class should have an archetype with maneuvers.

>>53449816
I have players like this.
I just started doing shit like placing doors in front of them that were locked and had the keys on a guy they would enter combat with.
They just try to break down the door with a hammer

>>53449702
You are the only retarded one here.

>>53449831
having access to them doesn't mean you need to use them anon, let other people have fun.

>>53449831
>Some people don't like maneuvers and you should have the option to play without them.
They should keep champion and battlemaster separate, for choice.

>However, every martial class should have an archetype with maneuvers.
This, definitely this.
All of the martial classes should give an option where an archetype involves maneuvers.

>>53449816
Sometimes we will forget to loot people after a lot of 'they have nothing but mundane weapons and armour that won't fit you and is too heavy to carry around on them'

>>53449779
I think PotA is the perfect blend of open-world adventuring, high-end world-changing stakes, and dungeon runs. A lot of the other campaigns are too much or not enough of one or the other, but PotA bounces you around from place to place while you level up and then tosses you into 2-3 actual fucking dungeons where you can have ye olde D&D-style adventures complete with resting in the middle of the dungeon and poking shit with a stick. It's great, in contrast to something like SKT where you do ONE giant dungeon (and there's no point to doing more unless you want loot) and get your ass kicked because it's a bunch of fucking giants and half the character builds you can make are invalid against guys with 2-3 attacks who hit like trucks.

Recommended. Doesn't get enough love because everyone moved right on to obsessing over Death House and CoS.

>>53449831
>Some people don't like maneuvers and you should have the option to play without them.
If you gave every martial class maneuvers, you would have the option to play without them.

I can play a Wizard without ever casting a spell. Just don't fucking use maneuvers?

Why does 5eg have such a hard-on for maneuvers?

>>53449884
That sounds... fucking awesome.

Some of my friends are nudging me to give DMing a shot so I was thinking of trying some of the lowbie material from PotA without letting them know the source. Then, if they ask for moar (and I hope they do) it will make for a nice reveal.
All this is assuming I'm not a shit DM of course.

>>53449936
Because they're fun and give martials something interesting and U S E F U L to do in combat beyond "i hit the guy with my sword"
I mean, I can do something other that hitting people with swords as a Fighter, but it's not going to be worth my while unless my DM goes out of his way to facilitate me.

>>53449661
Examples of meta magic:

>Wide Spell: Turns a single target spell into an AOE
>Concentrated Spell: Turns an AOE spell into a single target spell
>Retyped Spell: Changes the damage type of a spell to a damage type of your choosing
>Recalibrated Spell: Changes the saving throw of a spell to another ability score of your choosing
>Brutal Spell: Turns a non damaging spell into a damaging spell
>Homing Spell: Allows you to hit a target with a spell without line of sight
>Stunning Spell: Adds the "stun effect to the casted spell
>Charged Spell: Allows you to delay a spell and increase its power for every turn it's delayed
>Charging Spell: Turns a spell with range 30 or greater into a melee spell attack that moves you forward until you either hit something or reach the spell's maximum range

The sky's really the limit which makes it a damn shame that meta magic feels so bare bones.

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>>53449884
POTA fucking sucks, it's just one dungeon crawl after another.

If your group is a bunch of drooling retards when it comes to roleplay, you MIGHT enjoy this disjointed, uninspired mess.

>>53449950
This is why I usually climb giant monsters, or aim my weapon at different parts, just so I can get different reactions from the DM.

>>53449884
>can't Monk it up in SKT because every giant will resist Stunning Blow
>can't play anything that uses knockdown or grapple or disarms because they'll always pass their checks
>there's like 3-4 fights in the whole book that aren't vs. giants, a kraken, or a dragon, all of which laugh at any environmental shenanigans or martial CC you attempt

>>53449861
>>53449896
That's the dumbest argument in history. Having access to them means you have fewer things elsewhere because of this thing we call "balance."

>>53449984
joke's on you, my group took over that water cult's hideout and the keep above it on the river and turned it into a base of operations which is attracting workers and warriors from across the valley as we rebuild the ancient dwarven kingdom of besilmar under the rulership of our dwarven battlemaster

>>53449558
I'd agree about Warlocks until Hexblade became a thing, now they are playable.
>Remove Bard
Remove yourself.

>>53450004
Exactly. That's why no spellcasters get Extra Attack. Preach it, brother.

>>53449990
at least rangers get to do more damage ;^)
>pick fiends in OotA
>everything we fight is an aberration

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>>53450031

>>53449950
I'd be interested to see them expand the basic combat options beyond Shove. A lot of what made them useless before in 3e/PF was that they took your whole turn to do one, but 5e already changed that by making them a substitute for an attack. Also, you can move and get a full attack this edition.

Disarm is in the DMG, but other things could be added back in too.

>>53448027
>>Resources Pastebin:
>http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck
That spell sorter in the link seems to break when adding new spells. Is there another version out that fixes that or anything?

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>>53450031
B-but they could have extra attack and n-not use it!

>>53450071
I'd like a Muting attack that stops spellcasting with a verbal component for a round if a spellcaster fails their Conc. You know, knocking the wind out of someone or karate chopping them in the throat.

There's no good martial option for shutting down a spellcaster unless you're a Monk. Not everyone has a focus that can be disarmed, and you can have like 20 goddamn component pouches on your person if you really want. There's nothing in the rules that say grappling stops somatic casting, either; I'd expect good DMs to let you hand or arm lock a caster and stop them from doing their magical motions, but in something like AL or against a total fucking grog he's not going to let that fly.

So the Noble background gets 3 commoners to help in out of combat stuff, but the knight replaces one with a squire, since squires are training to become a knight themselves, they would have to get into combat eventually.

After some time do you think he would turn into a standard fighter hireling and take part in combat?

>>53450031
sure, if you exclude the casters that get extra attack.

What is a high dpr mystic?

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Ok two thing:

1) For an upcoming campaign we're only going to be fighting things bigger than us. Will a crossbow battlemaster do the job and are there specific maneuvers that'll be particularly good?

2) How do I stat things well? I want to create a statblock for pic related (poptop from Starbound) but any time I make a custom monster it comes out shit.
This also applies as I want to DM a game and pretty much all of the monsters will be custom :/

>>53450149
Psionic Weapon for the +Weapon and Smite-like attack, that Stone and Earth thing that lets you throw your weapon, and the Bestial Fury deal that just adds extra damage.

ABSURD amounts of bust damage until you run out of PP.

>>53450128
By the point the squire is capable of fighting, they should become an NPC instead of a class feature.

>>53450125
I agree in general, but it's hard to think of any "muting" attack that wouldn't realistically also be deadly (or give the opportunity for a kill). It's part of the reason called shots aren't a thing anymore.

>>53450187
I think he's saying that a squire would need to do some fighting in order to graduate to knighthood, therefore he should be helping in some combat scenarios.

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>>53450149
Probably soulknife memes?
Immortal is the true patricial choice though.

>>53450153
If you're fighting things that are bigger and STRONGER (physically) than you, like giants, a lot of your maneuvers go out of the window. You can't really rely on stuff like Trip, Disarm, or Pushing against creatures with Athletics skill and +7 strength mods. Maneuvers can still be useful, but you're gonna be spamming Menacing (not useful if the big things are also casters or have high Wis) and hoping there's a Rogue in your party that you can empower with Commander's Strike for double Sneaks. Goading Attack also becomes a viable choice now if you're at range, because big shit without a ranged attack has to chase you down or resign themselves to sucking against the rest of your party.

Chris Perkins on why 5e was designed the way it was designed:
>Their are mathematical underpinnings to everything in 5E. We used mathematicians on staff to make sure we weren't building a bad rules model, but we had to balance that with the expectations of the fans and certain legacy aspects of a 40-year-old game.

Do you/your DM/your players keep track of weight and carrying capacity?

It seems like an awfully big effort for no good reason

>>53450272
>casters have always been the best so they should remain that way
There you have it.

>>53449957
Good shit; we may even see some of that in the next PHB if they actually decide to give the sorcerers more love.

>>53450218
Yes that's what I meant, my only concern is by the time that a squire would be confident to go into fights, the PC knight would be fighting things that would eat his commoner-statted squire in a round or two

>>53450272
>Their are mathematical underpinnings to everything in 5E
>Adds sharpshooter, GWM, PAM and crossbow expert

>>53450290
Absolutely not.

>>53450310
Just say that he's been the knight's squire for years prior to the campaign starting so this adventure is as much a test for the squire as for the knight.

>>53450316
could be worse, could be Paizo and their "If a fat nerd isn't able to do it in 5 minutes, it's clearly impossible for a superhuman."

>>53450296
>casters are the best in 5e
Wizards are good but not ZOMGLITERALLYGOD.

>>53450368
Yes, but they're more fun.

Also, why we're getting shit all in terms of products
>What has changed the most between the way WotC approached 4e, to the way it approached 5e, and why did the latter see such a larger degree of success?
Chris Perkins >We release far fewer products and give them much more tender love and care than we did during 4E's run. People have time to get excited about a product and try it out before the next one shows up.

>>53450368
>he isn't level 28 inhabiting the body of Tiamat with full caster clones of himself on standby

>>53450361
Goddamn was that baffling.

>>53450397
they started off well enough, but quickly lost their god damn minds.

instead of maneuvers martials should all get ki points and elemental disciplines like Wot4E monk.

>>53450433
...I could see that working, something like stamina points or something.

>>53450296
Barbarians can have >60 DPR by level 5, but sure, casters are OP if it makes you feel better.

>>53450433
Well memed!

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>>53450376
Yeah right, my next question would have been
>Does the leash Hasbro uses chafe? Because let's be honest they thoroughly made you their bitch.

Is seeking power and dominion over people inherently evil if you're willing to kill to get it?

>>53450412
We just finally clued in to what they really are.

>>53450467
Yeah

>>53450433
>instead of maneuvers martials should all get ki points and elemental disciplines like Wot4E monk.
we want GOOD things, anon.

>>53450455
>Barbarians can have >60 DPR by level 5, but sure, casters are OP if it makes you feel better.
casters can remove enemies from this plane of existence with one spell.

>>53450467
What part of that doesn't seem evil to you?

>>53450467
>power
Nah
>dominion
As their lawful ruler without conquering them? Nah
>if you're willing to kill
Y E S

>>53450461
To be fair, most of 5e's supplements have been absolutely top notch quality.

>>53450481
The potential reasoning behind it. The whole taking control of the chaotic to enforce order meme for example.

>>53450455
>Barbarians are good at two things staying alive and damage
>Casters have spells that do all that and more

Wew lad.

>>53450508
>>53450478
>replying to obvious bait

>>53450483
What makes killing for power inherently more evil than killing for gold?

>>53450516
i am a very lonely person.

>>53450516
No not every fucking retarded post is bait

>>53450245
Kthx, I was probably going with menacing and goading (especially as the latter fits my character) and pick up precision at level 7, but it's good to get a second opinion

>>53450522
they're both evil bro

>>53448435
Lost Mines is genuinely one of the best introductory adventures in the history of D&D.

>>53450558
So every person in every D&D party is evil?

Kensei or Open Hand?

>>53450585
Open-hand is a stun-bot and nothing else. Kensei is only slightly better.

>>53450572
They are called murderhobos for a reason.

>>53450572
No because not every character's motivation is money or power.

>>53450600
>any party that has ever had mercenaries is a party of murderhobos
fascinating

>>53450594
Aren't all monks stunbots?

>>53448555
Though of that group, that character looks like the least awful. To the point where I wouldn't be surprised if they were even alright to group with.

>>53450572
>killing for gold
Evil
>fighting for gold
Not necessarily evil

>>53450620
>killing for gold
>Evil
What if you are a bounty hunter?

>>53450620
>Kill these bandits for us and we'll reward you
Evil?

>>53450572
It depends who you're killing. "Killing for gold" is pretty blanket.

>>53450635
So in that case, what about killing an incompetent politician with the aims of taking his job and fixing shit?

>>53450629
There's nuance here.
>be deputized as de facto law enforcement for gold
Not evil
>accept a contract to kill alleged criminals without proof
evil

>>53450613
Open hand moreso because they don't have many other options than just using baked in melee to stun. Other archtypes get quasi-casting.

>>53450628
You don't have to kill to be a bounty hunter.

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It has been a little while. Since I posted this here and maybe some new eyes will be willing to look over these.

These are designed for a pretty high magic campaign are there any changes you would make?

Don't worry I won't post this next thread.

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>>53448027

I'm DM'ing a tolkein / discworld esque 5e campaign right now and gave one of my players an evil bow. Problem is that I haven't statted it yet because I haven't been able to figure out what to make it do. Suggestions anyone?

>>53450665
if you are killing to acquire personal power it is evil.

>>53450665
>The witch that lives in the cave souht of town killed my child! Slay her and I'll reward you handsomely!
If you take this quest, are you evil?

>>53450653
That's still murder. Evil.

Your intentions don't matter, only the action. You don't get to torture someone because they're an evil king vs. an innocent peasant; torture is still bad.

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>>53449702

>>53450628
If the Bounty Hunter is hired to kill the target, they're being deputized as law enforcement (in a theoretical sense). Which isn't evil in itself.

If the law allows for contracts to be taken on people without proof of a capital crime, then the law is evil and accepting the contract would be an evil act (because you either are aware of the law's injustice or are ignorant, which is incredibly irresponsible for a bounty hunter).

If the law doesn't allow it, but you're still hired, you're an assassin taking a hit contract, not a bounty hunter.

I think I have plenty of shit in my notes tonight, /5eg/. Should be a fun session for the players.

Prove me wrong, show me there even MORE I can put into these notes

>>53450707
Killing any human that doesn't attack you first is murder. Half of all D&D adventurers are evil, by your definition.

>>53450702
Well we go there and see if it's true or not, if it is then deus vult. If not apologize for bothering her and leaving.

Are there any cool multiclasses for a War Cleric Archer? I was thinking about 3 in Ranger for Horde Breaker and the other abilities, also I did consider a level or two in Monk for the Unarmoured AC.

>>53450722
>Half of all D&D adventurers are evil, by your definition.
yes. and?

>>53450730
So why aren't half of all character alignments evil?

>>53450723
You go there and there's a witch. She says she didn't do it. You walk away? Don't kid yourself.

>>53450737
>So why aren't half of all character alignments evil? because no one actually pays attention to alignments.

>>53450702
Killing an alleged witch with no proof of her guilt is evil.

>>53450737
>You go there and there's a witch. She says she didn't do it. You walk away? Don't kid yourself

Now you're just pretending to be retarded, you investigate fuck nut.

What's the best way to add a kingdom subgame to 5e? Is there a better option than using PFs ultimate campaign guide?

>>53450722
Morality is not objective. Deal with it.

>>53450766
>if you call me out then you're retarded
Hang yourself.

>>53450791
That's precisely what I was arguing, you fucking imbecile.

>Setting up a Major plotline where an NPC has to go into the Feywild and Shadowfel to bring daylight back to a specific area.
>Want the PCs to help her and make a campaign around that
>No idea what Relics I should invent or how I should go about it
They just met the NPC briefly, and it's going to happen in the backround if the PCs decide they want to just go murderhobo in another Hex, but it seems like it could be a good questline. Whole gimmick is she's going to be the God of Thieves Chosen One, and if the PCs help a specific Faction enough they'll get a ceremony that the NPC will accidentally walk into and be named Champion. Any ideas? God is going to be a modified version of Mask.

I'm also a little annoyed this is incredibly reminiscent of what apparently Persona 5 is like, but I've never played it.

>>53450722
Well, yeah.

>>53450791
It is in some D&D settings, most notably the standard for 3-5E. yeah they tried to sell 3.0 as being greyhawk or whatever but we all saw how that turned out

>>53450770
>PFs ultimate campaign guide
Why would you use that? It's notoriously terrible.

>>53450750
>>53450737
>>53450747
>>53450722
Actually, i think as per dnd alignments, killing evil is objectively good as well as killing any wrongdoers.

>>53450750
But

>>53450722
>>53450707

It doesn't matter if she did it. You said yourself. Killing her for any reason besides by accident in self defense is evil.

>>53450795
So the only thing you worry about when trying to find the truth is just ask the accused?

I'm sorry you weren't pretending neck yourself and do us all a favor.

>>53450807
Ah. Yes, my bad. I skimmed the post and thought you were the same guy expanding on your position.

>>53450829
You're the one who accepted the job with zero evidence.

>>53450824
>Actually, i think as per dnd alignments, killing evil is objectively good
but killing an evil thing without knowing it is evil is objectively neutral (you killed a thing, bad; thing was evil, good.

>as well as killing any wrongdoers.
wrongdoers is too subjective. You can do a good thing and be a wrongdoer in lands where laws are unjust.

>>53450854
>Accept a job
>Investigate into it
>Find out job is bogus and the person you're sent after hasn't done anything
>Go back and confront job giver for attempting to have you kill an innocent

Holy shit so hard

>>53450818
I've heard bad things about *all* kingdom building rules I've ever heard of. At least ult. campaign is vaguely d&d compatible. Plus I own a copy already, and my players have used it in Pathfinder.

What would you suggest instead?

>>53450887
>Don't even bother asking the accuser for details to prove their accusation, instead assuming guilt and forcing the accused to prove innocence
wew, you sound pretty evil to me

>>53450874
Idk about the first bit. I think the action can only be one or the other. Killing an evil thing is always good, killing anything else is bad unless out can be proven to be fall under the first.

Although this is exactly why i don't use the stupid alignments when it can at all be helped.

>>53450467
By standard 5e alignment terms, no.

If you are truly doing it for selfless reasons.

>>53450874
>but killing an evil thing without knowing it is evil is objectively neutral
Fuck that noise, it is Evil. If you know a person is a mass murderer and you kill it then that's Good, depending, but if you kill him because he looks off that's an Evil act even if you did Good overall.

>>53448552
I actually got that reference

>>53450149
Psychic Disruption at level 5 for the AoE, then change it to Psychic Assault, or Mastery of Weather at level 9 for the AoE stun.

The AoE is above par, and the single target is below par.

>>53450904
>That doesn't fall under investigate

Wew lad

>>53451091
>j-just pretend I didn't say to investigate at the witch's cave only after she denied doing it
lmao

>>53448027
Any Tempest Cleric players here? Thoughts on the archtype, magic items and builds? Being Zeus sounds pretty appealing.

>>53451100
I dunno about you guys, but if someone breaks into my house (as murder hobos on a mission tend to do) I'm probably not gonna ask too many questions before I try to defend myself.

i don't really have time to get into a whole alignment argument with you clowns but let me lay it out

forgotten realms, the setting most of you are in, uses objective morality
your intentions are irrelevant, there is no "greater good"
someone at the dawn of the universe decided that these actions will be good and these will be evil and that's that
killing isn't evil, but murder is. note that you can't really "murder" things that are "always evil" or attacked you first; you're doing the world a service and acting in self-defense in those cases

this is cosmic law so eat dicks

>>53450737
Something similar happened in a game I'm in, now we have a source of rare reagents and someone to fence all these necromancer goodies we keep finding to.

Has anyone here ever played a trickery cleric? I feel like people just forget it exists

>>53451146
>forcing the witch to act in self-defence
>forcing you to kill her despite being innocent
evil

>>53450686
Drawing the bowstring has a chance to hurt them maybe? Could do bonus damage to the target when this effect happens. No idea on numbers, but they're hopefully not getting hit overly much as an archer so they probably have some hp to spare.

>there are seriously players here who just kill intelligent humanoids before they cause trouble, IF they ever even cause trouble
>and even in the case of known troublemakers, they just murder them in the road or some dank lair instead of bringing them back to civilization to be tried and judged
Ya'll motherfuckers need justice.

Do you guys think a subscription service a la Pathfinder would work for the 5e D&D game? Why or why not?

>>53451162
Yeah, that was my point. Once you break into her house all armed and whatnot, any investigation is no longer an option.

>>53451223
I don't know anybody who is willing to pay for a Pathfinder subscription. They just buy individual products they want.

>>53451247
Maybe subscription was the wrong word. I meant monthly periodicals like they do. I think they have four or five going now? Someone's buying them.

>>53451223
I literally have trouble understanding the concept of a subscription service for a TTRPG. Is it cheaper? The fact that there's so many pieces of garbage that there's one a month without delays is frightening.

So no, doing the exact opposite of 5e's marketing strategy wouldn't be a good thing.

>>53451159
Played one in a one shot, was a lot of fun. Opened up the sneaky playstyle and there's something fun about being a holy liar. Not too sure if I'd stick with one in a long term campaign.

>>53451159
Their features aren't awfully good but their main strength is their spell list.

>>53451266
It's worked for Pathfinder for, what, going on ten years now? It's hardly some unproven concept.

>>53451297
>Worked

Yeah all those options that are traps and you have to was through other wise you're useless. No thanks

>>53450012
Pact of the Blade worked before, but it was a narrow build.

>>53451297
Why would you market to stockholme syndrome victims instead of focusing on your core consumer base? Isn't this how every MMO after WoW died?

>>53450828

There's different people responding here. I was >>53450750

But not the other two.

>>53451318
Its limited but they are amazing Boss killers and if your campaign takes a fair amount of short rests they can nova the fuck out of larger targets for absurdly high dpr.

>>53451324
>Isn't this how every MMO after WoW died?
But they didn't.
Everyone forgets that before WoW, all it took to be a successful MMO was a ~100k subscribers. Just because WoW hit over ten million doesn't mean that an MMO that only gets 500k subs is bleeding money. It's a failure compared to WoW, but not compared to every other success before and around it.

MMOs aside, focusing on a small number of people who are willing to spend bajillions of dollars on your product is the current big market strategy. Look at all the F2P shit with microtransactions and mobile game shovelware. They boast millions of users, but how many actually pay for anything in the game? Just about none of them, except for the guys who are hooked and dumping tens of thousands of dollars into the product. They're called "whales", and if you can land a bunch of them it doesn't matter how many other users you have except to build hype and attract more whales. User counts are your advertisement; whales are your revenue.

>>53450686
The bow was made from the tree grown from the ashes of a bard whose name never entered legend because he sucked. But the tree still wanted to be a violin bow, and its dreams were crushed when an apathetic wizard made it into a over-embellished war bow for some rich elf family's spoiled scion as part of a magic item commission to pay for the wizard's debts to extraplanar brothels he spent great sums in a futile effort to avert his attention from his own magically extended midlife crisis. Nonetheless, the tree bow thing still wanted to be a violin bow, and so in an effort to make music, rubs itself up against each arrow in such a way that a discordant cacophony echoes for miles around, alerting everyone to its presence, ruining the archer's aim, and reminding itself that it will never be a violin bow. It has no other magical properties, it's just a very shitty bow.

>>53450686
I'd go with it gets stronger with every kill it makes and eventually begins trying to influence the character's actions after so many kills. Getting more incessant as time goes on until it finally gets enough kills to transform into a badass monster to fight or the character stops using it.

>>53451255
Oh. Yeah, people buy a lot of the individual adventures, for sure. 5e could definitely put out monthly multipart adventures. Pathfinder does two 6 part adventures a year.

Pathfinder actually has subscriptions, where you get new products in a product line every month, at a bit of a discount (still more than Amazon charges though!) - and I don't know anyone who subscribes to it.

And most people I know who do buy adventures, just buy the ones that look interesting.

But sure. I would buy 5e adventures if they came that way, assuming they looked good. I much prefer full sized books over periodicals though. I just wish they'd put out more of them. 2 or 3 a year would be great. You're damned right I'd buy a bunch of those. Give me 15 lvs in that, 15 lvs in Halruaa, 15 lvs of Moonsea, 15 lvs of Dalelands and sembia and whatnot, 15 lvs of ancient aryvandaar or Arcorar or myth drannor or crown wars. 15 lvs of ancient Netheril. 15 lvs of city of shade. 15 lvs of waterdeep sandbox guild conflict. 15 lvs of menzoberranyr drow backstabbery.

And that's just Faerun, but I would buy the shit out of those.

I would buy every one of those, up to four full length adventures a year.

>>53451372
Unless you get shut down by your parent corporation which happens all the time when coasting for low revenue for a long period isn't what they want.

>>53451309
>Pathfinder's garbage character options somehow have to do with whether monthly adventures are a good idea.
Did you not learn to read as a child?

What would be some good monsters to place in a dungeon below a temple? The temple was Ilmater's, but cultists in the dungeon worshipped the Queen of Blood. I was thinking 3 levels, first one with a large mess hall with goblins, third level would be undead cultists in the last room. I'm not sure about level 2 or the rest of level 3.
This is for a level 2 solo character with maybe some help from an NPC or two but not necessarily. They're also pursued by their rival (also level 2) seeking to bring them into custody.
The PC will be tasked with retrieving a statuette of the BQ for an employer.
I'll be happy to get any additional advice on the dungeon (traps, loot, layout...) - it's my first time DMing (well, second session). Cheers!

>>53450096
Now that's a trap option I can get into

>>53451484
They have monthly a monthly splat book subscription as well, anon.

>>53451377

This is fucking gold, thank you

>>53451223
The modules don't come out in installments, there's no point of a subscription service unless it's digital or they provide pdfs.

Mystics can swap disciplines when they level up. Can I swap the bonus disciplines from my Order to disciplines from a different Order?

>>53451652
No. Your Order is decided at level 1.

>>53451652
RAW yes IIRC, though there's typically not a lot of reason to since there's at least 2 good disciplines for each school.

>>53451106
It's pretty fucking great, people often underestimate how good getting Max damage on an AoE once per short rest it and the level 1 is probably one of the better ones. I highly recommend getting PAM if you can for when you can send people flying away from you at higher levels so you can OA if they move near you.

Only issue is that Clerics don't get some of the best Thunder/Lightning spells. You get enough to be effective though.

Personally I think it's better then other melee Clerics because it can also cover Light Cleric pseudo-Wizarding pretty well.

>>53451159
Probably some of the best spells. Polymorph, Dispel Magic, Dominate Humanoid and Pass Without Trace are all ones you'll use a lot.

The abilities aren't the best, level 6 is pretty much shit. Invoke Duplicity is strong though.

>>53449392
Make sorcerers work like lore wizard, maybe they choose a particular element and get more later on
Monks are d10 HD and get rogue ASI, maybe another step in their martial arts die (or maybe one subclass is more fighting focused and that one gets the bigger die)
Rest is pretty good

>>53450686

After being inspired by some of the stuff here I've ended up with this (which I like):

+1 Longbow: 1d8 Piercing Damage

Bloodline: Activate when attacking to take 1dN damage (where N = 4 + 2*(the number of times this ability has been activated this combat)) and deal an additional 2d8 Necrotic damage to the target (if the attack hits).

Resonant Flesh: Once per day you may touch the bow to your wounds and it will infest them, bolstering you with its wicked roots for a short time. Use to heal 1d4 + 19 temporary hitpoints, these hitpoints are lost after 1 hour.

>>53451664
That answer doesn't make any sense. Did you misread my question?
>>53451695
I know, but I'm working on a 3rd level Mystic for my next session, and I was hoping I could have Nomadic Arrow, Nomadic Step, Psionic Restoration, and either Psychic Phantoms or Telepathic Contact as my character will only speak telepathically. I won't use Occluded Mind at all as I've heard it's basically broken as fuck right now though. Don't wanna piss off the DM by making enemies believe death is a fantastic thing so they commit suicide.

>>53451652
Yes. You can replace one discipline you know with a different one of your choice when you level up.
You learn two disciplines from your archetype, so you know them, and can change one when you level up.

All other classes that let you do something similar, like replace a spell you know, don't have expanded spell lists that automatically give you the spells, leading to odd questions like that. The closest one is Warlock which is an expanded choice, so you could pick a pact spell, then replace it.

>>53451708
I think my DM won't have a problem with me retooling some higher level spells like those in Elemental Evil into the class later. Good to hear its good stuff. Their channel divinity just seems way powerful.

>>53451571
Yes they do, but it's been made clear (as in he was asked and he clarified) that by "subscription" he's not referring to the actual subscription services (which he didn't even know about), but just the idea of official ~96 page monthly adventures for 5e.

>>53451638
I think he's asking about if people would buy more adventures if they came out in monthly installments like for Pathfinder.

Personally, I'm not a fan of adventures in installments. I find them a pain to use, and for Pathfinder I tend to only buy them now if they're collected in a hardcover.

I would, however, be very interested in more frequent 5e adventure releases.

Remove the lore wizard, instead have all sorcerers use that class as their chassis. How does this work?

>>53451918
They have a subscription service, people are talking about monthly splats creating bad character options. And then there's you saying that no one is talking about the splat books when it's quite clear that's what the person you responded to was talking about.

>>53451932
Nah, then we wouldn't get the amount of quality adventure modules we get in 5e.

>>53451948
How literal is this question? An archetype isn't fit to be a chassis for a class.
Sure, adding something would be cool.

>>53451960
He responded to a question about monthly adventures with an answer about monthly splats.

I thought >>53451223 made it pretty clear in >>53451255 that he meant the adventures and such, no?

I mean, he might have meant the setting books and gazetteers about factions and such, but those are mostly not character options anyways; everyone tends to buy them for the setting fluff, not the few options; and those few options aren't any worse than what's in the hardcover books, so they're not the reason that Pathfinder has a lot of shit options.

Hello all, I am going to be playing in a 5e game next week and I was thinking about party composition. The DM implicitly banned party members building their characters around party balance or something. Now that's good and all and I respect his decision, but the thing is I don't want to end up with a party of four wizards or all fighters or something equally shit as I have been in that situation before and it really isn't fun to be eaten by a horde of rats because you didn't party composition properly.

For that reason I am planning on starting as a class that is relatively flexible and can take on multiple roles (note that we are starting at level one). For that reason (as well as I have good character ideas for them), I am drawn to Bard and Druid. However, I'm not sure what role would be worse not to have.

I guess what I'm asking is, assuming a radically unbalanced party where the majority of the party takes up one archetype, what would be more important to have? A tank (Moon Druid)? A Killy McStabstab (Valour Bard)? Both Druid and Bard have decent AOE spells and healing IIRC so I'm not worried about that too much. Anyone have any thoughts here?

>>53451970
Why? It's not like they're made in-house. They're all farmed out anyways. Kobold Press, Green Ronin, etc.

WotC doesn't make the adventures.

>>53449558
>Remove Bard

WAIT, WAIIIIIIIIIT, WAIT YOU MOTHERFUCKER!
We challenge you to a roll off~~
Give you a chance to suck a troll off~~

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>>53452036
Mystic.

>>53452036
Make a Druid and if you need melee then go Moon Druid, if you need a diverse caster then Land Druid and if you need a healer/supporter then Shepard Druid.

It's good you're starting at 1 so you can see what you'll need though. Bard requires pretty different ability scores if you need to cover a role of then Support Caster, while all Druids just need Wisdom and Constitution.

>>53452052
Are you actually retarded or pretending to be?
CoS, SKT and Tales were all made in-house, the adventures lacking in quality were all outsourced, or in association with Wizards like OotA.

>>53452069
I'm confused, what do you mean by Mystic? Someone who buffs others? Someone who does AOE damage?

>>53452100
>what do you mean by Mystic?
Maybe the class called Mystic?

>>53452100
Yes.

>>53452082
Yeah that sounds like a good idea, thanks Anon!
>>53452123
I am a clever man.

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I found this chart for easy monster stat blocks, but its 4e. Is it close enough to use for 5e? Or is there a 5e equivalent somewhere?

How do you deal with a DM who cancels your weekly game ~3 hours in advance, 4 times in a row?

My DM's letting me chose the creatures I summon with Conjure Animals, I know it's a quick way to piss off all other party members but I do want to use the spell.

Should I try to keep my summons to 1/2CR and above creatures? So that I'm not creating a swarm of wolves to clog up initiative?

>>53452284
Depends on the reason. Ask him if he actually plans on ever running a game again

>>53452271
No don't use that. At best, the level of a 4e monster may give you a start for what sort of hit dice to give a 5e monster, but seriously, the 5e DMG has plenty good rules for it.

How many martials does my party need for Crusader's Mantle to be better then Spirit Guardians on a War Cleric?

>>53452089
>Tales
I guess.

>SKT
>Quality
Skimmed it, didn't seem very good, didn't buy it to play.

>CoS
I was under the impression that was outsourced.

>I go look it up.
Apparently they hire other people to do the writing, while giving them some direction and serving as the editors, according to Rich Baker, writer of PotA.

So, they are outsourcing them, but they are at least somewhat involved in overseeing them.

Which ties back in pretty well with "they could have more adventures coming out than they do without them being terrible, because the WOTC team are not the ones doing the writing".

>>53452271
DMG has a quick reference for monster stats (DPR, HP, and Save Value) for custom monsters by CR.

File: DDAL06-01_A_Thousand_Tiny_Deaths.pdf (3MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

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Here's A Thousand Tiny Deaths

>>53452271
There's a table in the 5e dmg that will work for 5e, but it is slower and more involved to use than the 4e ones were.

>>53452271
The easiest way to make monster stat blocks is to just add and remove stuff from existing stat blocks. See the Phoenix example in the DMG.

Any tips on Homebrewing Creatures?

I wanna make a bunch of monsters for my campaign.

Animated Paintings, a Bread Golem and a Wine Ooze.

>>53452331
Any martials are technically a huge loss of party potential. Spirit Guardians is always better.

>>53452333
Under the impression SKT was lacking in quality because you only skimmed it or that CoS was outsourced means you're a fucking literal retard.

Not with CoS or SKT, where the lead designer and writer was Chris Perkins, you autist, or Tales.

You are a literal retard.

>>53452386
>>53452331
Not always better, the less enemies there are the better Crusader's Mantle will be.

If there's only 1 or 2 big guys (Which is pretty common) then it's probably the better option to max out that damage rather then make it a bit harder for him to walk.

>>53448599
I work nights so my group starts early in the day and we end early in the afternoon so I can get some sleep before my shift.

>>53452285
Always use flying snakes and roll it as one attack for their composite die. They've got the most potential for harm while still being easily removed.

>>53452419
Ignoring accuracy (since that gets really complicated, and is a highly variable discussion), you need to hit 3 attacks on a single monster to roughly equal the damage output of Spirit Guardians on that monster.

Typically, a fight will have about as many monsters as there are party members (it's better balance, and more engaging that way, in my experience). So until your martials have 4 attacks in an action (because you probably don't have as many martials as you have enemies, with a mixed party), Spirit Guardians will be better.

>>53452504
>>53452419
Also, Spirit Guardians scales with higher level spellslots, and Crusader's Mantle does not.

Spirit Guardians IS the better spell.

>>53452089
http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2768-Who-Makes-WotC-s-Adventures
>"There's the two-part Tyranny of Dragons campaign produced by Kobold Press; there's Princes of the Apocalypse, from Sasquatch Game Studios; and there's the imminent Out of the Abyss, from Green Ronin publishing. All of these are official, hardcover adventures produced for WotC by third party companies."
>"when I asked Kobold Press' Wolfgang Baur about the process, he told me that "the 5E adventures are produced as a combination of studio work and WotC oversight." He went on to describe it in a little more detail, highlighting a to-and-fro between the companies -- "we'd do some portion of the work, then we would get feedback from WotC on Realmslore, or story beats, or mechanics. Then we did more of the design, and got feedback from swarms of playtesters. Then we turned over another version for feedback on the art and layout. And so forth. It was iterative..." So collaboration clearly takes place all the way through the process. He describes Kobold Press role as "the heavy lifting in design, development, and editing" with WotC having "crucial input and set the direction for what they wanted"."

I wasn't able to find the information on who the author is for CoS or Yawning Portal; but it's pretty clear that WotC contracts out the writing to other groups. While they may have a hand in the production of the product, they're not making it in-house, and it's pretty reasonable to asset that they could therefore contract out more adventures to be made.

Of the ones I've read, OotA, while not perfect, seemed the best of the bunch. Out of Curiosity, what makes you say CoS and SKT are so much better?

And Tales is really a different sort of book, not an Adventure Path, is it not (I haven't looked at tales yet)?

>>53450096
If that's what most traps look like, I understand now.

>>53452523
In most situations, yes spirit guardians is a very good spell. I'm not going to argue that. The issue is most powerful enemies will have a high Wisdom save compared to AC which never scales too high, as a third level spell there are situations where it's better.

Also against something like a Dragon I'd much prefer the extra damage on attacks compared to a 30ft. aura he can leave. Crusader's Mantle also works with Ranged Attacks so you can open up a fight hitting with it from a pretty big distance with Longbows.

9 times out of 10 your 3rd level slots should be used on Spirit Guardians, there are situations where Crusader's Mantle is the better spell though. The main one being boss fights below level 10ish.

>>53452541
That was never the issue, you literal retard. I have literally said Wizards does so and those are the ones lacking in quality.

CoS and SKT are both by Chris Perkins, who is the lead designer, if you are able to read and able to comprehend the meanings of those words.
Takes is also inhouse.

Out of curiosity, have you bothered to actually read them other than skimming and shooting your mouth off?

Kobold Press's Dragon adventure is widely regarded as the worst of the lot. It should've had more input and feedback from Wizards.

>>53449417
>>53449661
Sorcerers should function vaguely similar to psionic characters

Spell list is the same as wizard
Spells are spontaneously cast not prepared before hand
Spells cost power points not spell slots
Increase caster level for the spell using PP
Limit number of points you can use at once based on class level to prevent dumping all points on one spell
Power points can be spent for using meta magic like effects

Just going on the idea that a sorcerer's power comes from within rather than study, worship or pacts like other classes that must in some fashion prepare what spells they are going to cast before hand utilizing some device or entity.

It's always irritated me that a sorcerer still chants and gestures like a wizard and still requires material components. The differences between wizard and sorcerer as they exist are way to few and insignificant/uninteresting.

>>53452408
>SKT Not Lacking in Quality, you must be retarded not to like it!
It's yet another megadungeon, but with giants!
Megadungeons get old. That's mostly why I skipped it. This isn't my first time playing D&D.

>The lead designer was Chris Perkins!
Okay. Good for him. So those two weren't outsourced. A quick google search didnt give me any information about who wrote those, and I didn't care to try to dig further.

>Tales
Is a bunch of converted modules from old editions, which are disjointed and not an adventure path. I mean, I'm not saying it's a bad book, but it's not an adventure path, and is therefore irrelevant to whether or not WotC could farm out more writing to put out adventure paths at a quicker pace.

Or hell, if it's so important to you that they don't use freelance writers or subcontractors, hire more designers to do it. Maybe bring back some of the ones they laid off, or some of the novel authors they no longer use.

But you're going to need to explain yourself if you want me to believe that CoS and SKT are soooo much better than PotA and OotA that the only option is to have Chris Perkins do everything himself.

>>53452089
What's wrong with OotA?

>>53452634
Yes, Dragons is the worst of the lot. I read it and noped right out. PotA is by Rich Baker, who has written all sorts of stuff for WotC in the past. I gave it a fairly thorough readthrough. OotA I've given a very thorough reading, because I'm intending to run it soon.

SKT I only skimmed, because skimming led me to realize I wasn't interested in another megadungeon adventure and what I was reading in the plot just didn't sell it to me.

CoS, I gave a read and it looked good. I picked OotA instead primarily because it was 1-15 instead of 1-10.

I will agree with you that Kobold's Adventure is bad. I don't like most of their stuff. Didn't like their stuff for Pathfinder either.

Nobody is claiming ToD is good. It's not.

I'm asking you to justify your claim that CoS and SKT are great and PotA and OotA are shit.

>>53452612
Below level 10, martials have at most 2 attacks. Spirit Guardians is still superior. Remember, Spirit Guardians still does damage on a passed save. Assuming that the enemy makes ever spirit guardians save, you're going to deal 6.75 damage a round to it, which is still better than the extra damage from Crusader's Mantle on 2 autohitting attacks (5.00 per round). To make Crusader's Mantle worth preparing over Spirit Guardians, you have to create an extremely contrived scenario: A lone enemy, that the players know will be alone while preparing spells, that always succeeds on a wisdom saving throw, and is always hit by attacks. I'm sure you can contrive these scenarios, but you're really overrating their frequency. 99 times out of 100, just prepare Spirit Guardians.

>>53452601
It's not. That's the "Best Case Scenario" where traps are concerned.

>>53452773
Oh, one other point I forgot: Spirit Guardians can be used in multiple encounters, since it has a duration of 10 minutes. Crusader's Mantle lasts 1 minute. There is almost no reason to ever prepare that trash.

>>53452339
Good work, anon. But it's still odd for a D&D pdf to be what it says on the tin, and not surprise touhou futa.

>>53452773
You also have to remind everyone they have a d4 every time they attack, like you do with bless because no one wants to remember

'>>53452765
>PotA and OotA are shit.
Just saw this conversation, those are my two personal favorite adventures. CoS's alright if you're into that kinda stuff and SKT is shit.

>>53452815
Mate, the guy was talking about War Clerics. They have both auto-prepared so they can use either when it's most beneficial.

With a War Cleric casting you only need two martials to be getting 5d4-6d4 extra damage per turn out of it.

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>>53452700
How are people still bad at google?

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im playing a raven queen warlock/grave domain cleric and me and my dm are arguing about raising dead. he says i cant do jack shit with the undead, but I say i should be free to do whatever as long as i dont touch their soul. he says raising zombos is against my morals because it binds their soul to the corpse. please help support my side of the argument

birb as thanks

>>53452879

It really depends on what your DM defines as raise undead. If he thinks it's trapping a soul and putting it in a corpse to control then yes. If it's just raising a long dead body then no. Usually it's the latter though.

>>53452867
>Mate, the guy was talking about War Clerics. They have both auto-prepared so they can use either when it's most beneficial.

Fair enough. Let me amend my statement: There is almost no reason to ever cast this trash.

>With a War Cleric casting you only need two martials to be getting 5d4-6d4 extra damage per turn out of it.

Prior to level 10, no. They would have to have perfect accuracy for 2 martials to get 5-6d4 out of it. In any situation with more than one enemy, you have to assume perfect accuracy for your 2 martials to outdamage spirit. guardians (and you also have to assume that the enemies always save).

>>53452879
Who's your god? I know Kelemvor considers undead unnatrual. As I understand it Grave cleric is about upholding proper ceremony for the dead like Anubis or Hades while Death cleric is about killing fucking everything or raising the dead to kill other things until everything is dead. i.e. worshipping a death god vs worshipping an evil god.

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>>53452873
>{Pic Related}
Which does not say who wrote it at the top, like your "Lead Designer" search does, in combination with

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/curse-strahd-press-assets
>"Written in collaboration with Tracy and Laura Hickman, the authors of the original Ravenloft adventure published in 1983"
Led me to think this was another instance of WotC managing freelance authors, like they did with Rich Baker and whoever it was at Green Ronin that wrong OotA.

>>53452940
the raven queen. we've come to the understanding that zombies are fake souls, but i cant get him to budge on reviving party members despite revivify and raise dead being in the grave domain free spells

>>53452383
>Bread Golem and a Wine Ooze.
Are you trying to make a weird Christianity-themed campaign?

>>53452957
I hope you learned that you should be looking for the lead designer on an adventure, because in the unlikely event that isn't the person writing the adventure, it definitely is the person directing the one(s) writing.

Probably going to play a Support character in an upcoming game.

Do I go
>Lore Bard
>Life Cleric
>Life Theurge (DM said he gives 0 fucks what OP shit we pick)

Multiclass options
>Warlock 2/Lore
>Druid 1/Life

Any other Support meme builds I'm not thinking of?

>>53452964
I can slightly see where he is coming from, but automatons vs necromancy are two different things. Either way its sketchy to have a champion of two gods/beliefs raising dead when they stand against unnatural dead to the core.
>>53452998
Lards are top tier, Any cleric fits the bill considering you need not go full healer in 5e.

>>53452998
Nothing is going to top life cleric

>>53452964
Well raven queen doesn't like undead, but revivify returns a character to life, not unlife, therefore there's no issue.

>>53449105
Errata changed poison. It now lasts until it's used or washed off. Better off on action economy, but still damned expensive for its effect.

>>53453009
>>53453011
Should specify I mean "Support" (in combat and out) rather than just healbitch since I know you can't MMO tank in 5e.

>>53453046
Then I'd say go Lard, they are king in RP situations with their skill specialties and in combat they boost everyone else ridiculously hard while providing top tier support spells and abilities.

>>53453075
>>53453075
>>53453075

New thread, whenever you guys are ready

>>53452700
SKT isn't a megadungeon. It's a wild frontier sword coast spanning adventure with branching paths. It's something that has incredible replay value and no two tables will experience it in quite the same way. Yes it houses several possible dungeon crawls, but also relies heavily on social interaction and intrigue.

Where the ever living fuck, presumably your ass, did you pull megadungeon from? That was only meant half insultingly, I honestly want to know.

>>53452980
But in this case the Author is who I was looking for, because >>53452089 was repeatedly claiming it was all done in house.

It seems he was mistaken, at least where CoS was concerned. They may or may not have been *More* involved than they were with OotA and PotA (which I've yet to hear an explanation for why they are apparently terrible in comparison to CoS and SKT), but it was *NOT* all handled in-house, they worked with non WotC employees to do it.

And again, I'm not saying subcontractors are bad. I'm asking for justification from >>53452089
to how all the adventures with outsourcing are lacking in quality in comparison to the 100% in-house ones, which, so far as I can tell, is just SKT.

>>53452634
SKT Lead Design is also apparently Mearls, not Perkins.
>https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/10/storm-kings-thunder-is-a-performative-dungeon-mast.html

So, >>53452634, you smug son of a bitch,
What Makes a (so far, theoretically) all in-house SKT so much better than CoS, PotA, and OotA, all of which outsourced work to other people?

And I don't give a shit about Tales, it doesn't count in this discussion, for 2 reasons:
>1. It's not an Adventure Path, it's a bunch of small modules.
>2. It's not new adventures, it's conversions of old adventures from old editions.

So, since you say I'm a retard, go ahead and explain away, preferably in a way that actually makes sense.

>>53453056
Yea I'm thinking either Lard or Theurge just to see if they live up to the hype.

If I go Lard I might do some multiclass shenanigans like Life 1/Warlock 2 for bonus heals, spell slots, and EB in case I find myself needing to be DPS.

>>53453113
The module contents were heavily dungeon based (again, from skimming), and reviews and comments indicated that the stuff outside the dungeons was basically irrelevant other than for some side-loot.

Though after your post, I'm now wanting to give it another look, I'm still interested in hearing >>53452634 justify their position that non-WotC employees invariably write shit modules, providing examples that are not Kobold Press.

>>53453130
>CoS
>all of which outsourced work to other people
Fucking hell you moron, CoS was in-house.

>>53453178
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/curse-strahd-press-assets
>"Written in collaboration with Tracy and Laura Hickman, the authors of the original Ravenloft adventure published in 1983"
If Tracy and Laura Hickman are full-time WotC employees, why would they need to call them out for being written in *collaboration* with, rather that just stating that Tracy and Laura Hickman also wrote the original?

>>53453209
They're only credited as creative consultants in the book, anon. "Co-written" there is just fluff. They did no design work on CoS.