EDH/Commander General

>>53278600
>Thread question
Making this thread

Most degenerate UGx commander?

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Hey guys! What do you think of my custom commander, which was recently allowed in my group?
I hope it's not too strong of a card!

As much as I like Glorybringer as a card, I really wish we could get some more EDH playable dragons. Balance them as bombs in limited, okay in Standard, and great for EDH.

>reanimating thunderblust with feldon
Does this do what I think it does? I had warstorm surge and where ancients tread out, so my buddy was less than happy, but I want to make sure I didn't gyp him.

>>53278696
Thrasios, no other colors needed.

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>>53278714
This is now a terrible custom cards thread.

>>53278775
It doesn't. Feldon creates tokens, doesn't actually reanimate

>>53278714
Kill yourself, thanks.

>>53278600
>What are some of your heartless plays?
Recently, I won a game with Kamahl, Fist of Krosa when I used a Primal Command on turn 3 against an opponent's Chromatic Lantern and shuffled it into their deck. He was stuck on three mana with Kaalia and had a hand full of fat. Took him off mana long enough to sweep the table (other guy was on a meme deck that isn't any good, fun though).

>>53278817
Yes, but will the token have persist, or does it stop existing when it hits the yard? No 6/1 fuck dragon at the end of my turn?

>>53278775
>Tokens can gain persist, and the ability will trigger if a token is put into a graveyard. However, like all tokens, it can't return to the battlefield and will cease to exist as a state-based action before the ability would go on the stack.

>>53278793

This is terrible. He clearly should be named "Godfoe".

>>53278851
Well shit, and I thought I was pulling some spicy plays. Guess I'll go apologize, I hit him for a stupid amount of damage to pull the win out of my ass too.

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>>53278793

>>53278780

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>>53278849
Token will have persist, but will cease to exist before the persist trigger is put into stack. Tokens can't exist outside the battlefield and will cease to exist first time state-based actions are checked whenever they move zones, whether it's graveyard, library or hand or what else there is.
>>53278832
>being this mad

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Which of these two would be best for a voltron deck?
Akiri, Line-Slinger and Tana, the Bloodsower
Gaddock Teeg

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>>53279061
>Gaddock Teeg voltron
What the fuck am I reading?

What, are you gonna buff him through sub 4 mana auras? Sub-4 equips?

>>53279061
>Gaddock Teeg Voltron
u wot

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Sometimes I wish PW could be Commanders.

Am I dumb? Would it ruin the format?

>>53279122
Yes to both

>>53279122

The gaps in Bolas's wings looked like tits from the thumbnail for a moment.

>>53279122
No, EDH is a wish fulfillment format. And yes, because they're impossible to balance around.

>>53279122
>what is C14

>>53279097
>>53279117

Akiri and Tana it is then

>>53279122
>doubling season now costs $1000

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What do I build with this dude?

>>53279122
my play group house ruled planeswalkers are allowed to be commanders, its pretty cool honestly. the only problem is emblems cant be removed and if you play right you will guarantee ult it eventually

>>53279287
i still dont understand why they didnt reprint doubling season in the last MM

>>53279293
Vorthos tribal

>>53279175
I can see it.

>>53279312
>Dovin Baan Stax
>Tamiyo Combo
>Venser Stax
Sounds awful.

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>>53278714
>>53278793
>>53278990
>>53279016

>>53279324
It's really degenerate, and will only get more degenerate as wizards prints more planeswalkers. Dollars to donuts they'll pretend it doesn't exist so they can forget about balancing around it.

>>53279377
Surely multiple instances of annihilator stack.

>>53278600
How would lifelink work on a creature like this?

>>53279417
>deals damage

>>53279334
I was thinking of just doing Grixis Control/politics in the flavor of Nicol Bolas' dickish manipulative nature.

The thing is it just kind of comes off as a Jevela deck without Jevela. The flavor is spot on though.

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>>53279377

>>53279406
they do

>>53279377
>whiter and trample
>on a card with protection from everything
For what purpose?

>>53279433
What the fuck does Tsundere do?

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>>53278793
Not if I stop you!

>>53279549
It can only attack if it was just going to attack anyway, not because you told it to. Don't act like it's doing you a favor or anything, it doesn't even like guys like you.

>>53279567
>It's like Lightning Helix! Except it's shit!

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>>53279377
found the other half to this guy

>>53279417
good

>>53279368
its really not. flipping over a PW commander put a HUGE target on your back 90% of the time

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Does your play group use the french/duel banlist? If so, how has it affected your games? I want to know if it's better or worse than the normal banlist.

>>53279888
i play french rules on some decks. it's bled over into multiplayer because games seem better that way. we often play no cmd damage 30 life or 20 life, and you'll get dirty looks for playing some stuff like sol ring and mana crypt/vault

>>53279796
What if everyone plays a planeswalker? Then who do you target?

>>53279979
That sounds legitimately terrible anon.

>>53279979

I like the duel list because I don't like fast mana cards (which I define as producing more mana than they cost e.g. sol ring, mana crypt, grim monolith). However, we use the regular banlist, and convincing an entire store of people to change their decks for a different ban list would be a huge task.

Guy from previous thread that was wanting to get the Yidris precon

Drove around for two hours going to every walmart, gamestop, barnes and noble, target and toys r us in the Raleigh NC area, and I found every 2016 commander precon except Yidris. Leaving early tomorrow morning to try again further out.

>>53279979
>instead of coming to an agreement with my playgroup we're just passive aggressive
Jesus Christ how horrifying.

>>53279417
You gain half of everyone's life. Wanna know how infect works?

>>53280053
Haven't you already paid more than $10 in gas that could've been used for the shipping cost?

>>53280053

Should have grabbed one or two Atraxa to resell.

>>53280053
Did you buy a few Atraxa precons to recoup some costs then?

>>53280088
>>53280082
I don't really have any irl magic friends to sell to and I don't feel like mailing shit to people. I assume I would have a hard time breaking even through selling to the LGS? Maybe I assumed wrong.

>>53280127
Even if you sell the singles at below market cost you'll still get a bit of profit out of it.

>>53280053
go to gametheory, they have them on the shelf right now

>>53280189
Right on I may go back and get them tomorrow morning, thanks

>>53280127

Toss them up on eBay for $60-$70, make bank. I've only seen one Atraxa, and gave it to a friend for market price. Had I seen more I'd have bought and resold them for sure. All my local big box stores have is like 4 Hug Kings, a Saskia or two, and a single Breya.

>>53280053
>>53280193
also i live right by gametheory, if you come on by my place ill suck your dick

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>>53278600
>4 player game on MODO piloting toshi
>opponents are hidetsugu player, talrand player, and tymna/ludevic pillowfort monstrosity
>talrand player rage quits when I hero's downfall his talrand in response to boots
>hidetsugu player, A, gets his commander killed twice and durdles for 8 turns
>enchantress player, B, drops turn one remora and gets it back out of the yard after some nice ramp allowing him to set up a tax rate of something like 9 mana to attack each turn
>board is stalled because player B won't play threats and I can't destroy enchantments in monoblack
>player A gets his 9th mountain and drops hidetsugu
>player B is explaining that he'll be in much better shape after a hidetsugu activation than A will be
>I give him the needed nudge and remind him he has no other play for the foreseeable future.
>A activates hidetsugu and I hit him with tainted strike
>B calls me a nigger loving faggot and rage quits

Loving every laugh.

>>53280026
It's so great. You still get to do stupid shit in decks that doesn't happen in other constructed formats, but the game still feels somewhat competitive.
>>53280054
There's a lot of passive aggressiveness, but I enjoy it.
>>53280050
I like the lower life total more than banlist changes, not that the multiplayer banlist isn't trash, because it feels like aggro isn't limited to voltron as much.

been a while since i posted in edhg
still playing shitty Damia discard shenanigans though i added some better control elements
Food Chain is in there for the combo as well as for those times when i end up with mountains of tokens and want to power out Sisters or Myojin
it runs pretty well at the moment but there's always room for improvement
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/damia-queen-of-the-library/

>>53280307
Sounds like a good format for quick commander games, but that's not why I play.

How do you gauge your spending in your meta? Do you choose not to spend too much more than enemy decks to keep it competitive?

>>53280214
instead of a blowjob can I just have an arcbound ravager?

How many board wipes should a control deck have?

>>53280398
We don't have a hard limit, but when people have decks around ~1000 dollars or so we start to ask them to tone it down. The real problem is that while dollar value is a rough estimate of a deck's power, it's not exactly one to one.

>>53280485
Somewhere between 2 and 99

>>53280485
Who's your commander?

>>53280531
Nicol Bolas so there's no synergy, the deck is super light on creatures

What kills your shit the most?

If you were to build a deck specifically around not being set back as much by whatever the answer to the above question is, how would you go about doing it?

>>53280485
I run 5. Only reason I don't have more is because my others cost way too much.

>>53280541
>Nicol Bolas so there's no synergy

Well, there is one synergy: Crux of Fate.

>>53280562
Ah yes, I am running that

>>53280553
By diverting resources from things that are good at safeguarding my decks against things that are not good against it due to those resources.

>>53280398
My group money gouges, generally not to be competitive to pimp decks or to just make their deck more streamlined i.e. Gaea's Cradle in a Rosheen Meanderer deck.

>>53280398

Won't spend more than $20 on a card, and I rarely spend more than $100 in single go, and I rarely spend money on singles, like every 3-4 months?

>>53280505
>The real problem is that while dollar value is a rough estimate of a deck's power, it's not exactly one to one.

Very true. I use money as a base specifically because of that. Generally more expensive decks are more powerful.

>>53280672
I like to pimp out my Johnny decks with extremely expensive, powerful cards but I'm careful not to tread into infinite combo/infinite lockdown Spike territory

>>53280700
>infinite combos
>spike
You're mixing them up anon.

>>53280541
>>53280568
You could also go the Recoil route and do "board wipes" with mass Unsummon effects and then knock them out of their hands with Bolas.

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>>53278600
>What are some of your heartless plays?

Slamming the door in Bryan's face

I jest it was probably going all out on another player because got mana flooded and the game lasted another hour and half before I won I'm sorry Noel but I felt like you needed to know how others in our group feel

>>53281192
Spike is all about infinite combos if they're reliable and efficient. There's a difference between a deck that is incidentally capable of comboing off and a "combo deck".

>>53281192
I consider tryhard infinite and lockdown to be Spike in EDH as its the fastest most degenerate way to win while making everybody playing against you feel bad.

Like playing against a Grenzo deck that has a dozen ways to go infinite on like T4

>>53281192
infinite combo/lockdown (usually) = instant win (or ridiculous nearly undefeatable position
and both of those are just what spike wants

Need input. I want to make an elf deck. Should I Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, or Emmara Tandris?

>>53278600
>What are some of your heartless plays?
Cheated out an early Mycosynth Lattice in Daretti and had enough mana to Vandalblast.

>>53281314
Neither. Rhys is a better elfball commander in either of those colors.

>>53278600
>What are some of your heartless plays?

Nevermored an opponent's General and Mind Twisted him so he would literally have to sit there and do nothing for long periods of time. Then Mind Shattered him when he got back on his feet.

Yeah fuck that guy who ruined our playgroup by spending a shitload on his deck and completely taking over one game after another. We used to have fun but his version of fun was winning by throwing money at the problem. Now we rarely get together to play because no one enjoys his horseshit.

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>>53278600
>What are some of your heartless plays?
>Playing Kamahl, Fist of Krosa.
>There's a Jenara next to me who I'm bros with, the new group hug precon, and a faggy Atraxa Superfriends.
>The Superfriends player keeps saying "Once he gets Doubling Season, you're all fucked!"
>Get annoyed by this, and am planning of murdering him first.
>Jenara slams down Elesh Norn and kills most creatures, except for Kamahl, and kills the Superfriends player's Elspeth.
>The superfriends player complains about losing his tokens and only planeswalker and insists that we're all dead once Doubling Season hits field.
>My turn comes around, I look at him across the table and ask "How many lands do you have?"
>"Eight? Why?"
>"I'm going to pay eight at make your lands into 1/1s."
>"Uhhh? Okay, thanks?"
>I point at Elesh Norn, and he just looks back at me with sadness in his eyes.
>"Oh. Okay then..."
>Every time he gets a land drop, I destroy it this way.
>He scoops and storms out of the store.
>Mfw

>>53281435
He deserved it for playing Superfriends.

>>53281289
>>53281292
>>53281308
I mean they're distinctly Johnny interactions but I suppose you can define a playstyle notable for its desire to win by playing above trash-tier decks in a causal meta.

To me a Spike plays decks that win, like Food Chain Tazri and Storm.

>>53281516
You're a fucking moron. FCT is an infinite combo. You know what else wins? FCP, another infinite combo. CVT, another infinite combo. Go eat an ass.

>>53278600
>Heartless Plays

>Nicol Bolas Control
>Just sitting on a mountain of mana and nothing else, convincing my two friends not to attack me
>Thromok player, who is admittedly pretty new to Magic, goes to call my bluff, plays his 25/25 general, sacs his Fires of Yavimaya and attacks.
>I Quicken into Phthisis and throw his worm back at him

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>>53278793
>>53278990
>>53279016
>>53279377
>>53279433
>>53279567
>>53279739
are we still doing this?

Are tribal decks always vanilla Timmy shit

>>53278600
A guy once went all out with his Thromok deck and wiped out the table. He came for me during his next attack step, made it something crazy like 80/80 and proudly said "gg?"

So I tapped 3 and played Tribute to Hunger. My shit cards come outta nowhere

>>53281819
Tribal is inherently Johnny. You pick a theme and you stick with it, you're expressing yourself through your choice of deckbuilding constraints.

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>>53281819
>vanilla timmy shit
>he's never ran sponge tribal

>>53281846
I'm sorry, but as a Johnny the idea of just shoving every "Bird creatures get +1/+1" into my deck is NOT expressive or interesting deck building.

>>53281819
ya like >>53281846 said, its johnny af. sometimes vorthos

>>53281876

Well too bad, that's the kinda shit you have to do when you're making your Kangee deck

>>53278600
>playing oloro in a star format commander game (look it up)
>teamate to my right plays blood moon, which totally screws me over
>only thing left I can do is play aetherflux reservoir and threaten anyone willing to attack me with certain death while hoping the blood moon player dies.
>Karametra player tries killing me with a card that practically reduces my health from 56 to zero, thinking Dragonlord Dromoka protects him.
>Pull that trigger without thinking twice

>>53281876
>Deck Artists

>The Deck Artist also builds decks but in a very different vein. The deck artist isn't trying to find anything or demonstrate anything. The Deck Artist is trying to use deck building as a form of self-expressive art. These are decks that do things like embody the elf culture or represent Empire Strikes Back or play in a way that makes the opponent appreciate the uniqueness of the card choices.

>The Combo Player and Offbeat Designer are showing off what they are doing. The Deck Artist shows off how they are doing it.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-revisited-2006-12-18

Take it up with MaRo.

>>53281876
Nah, tribal is a Johnny thing. Spikes will play it if it's good tribal (druid tribal is Johnny, while merfolk is spike in legacy). And Timmies will play it if it's big shit like beast tribal.

If you think +1/+1 shit is the only mechanic linked to tribes you are probably too stupid to be a Johnny.

>>53281956
Don't forget wizard tribal, wizard tribal is super Spike with Azami/LabMan.

>>53281956
This.
Tribal can be Spike, Johnny or Timmy.

It all comes down to the reason for building it.
>I build Merfolk because of the results
>I build Goblins because they're fun and wacky
>I build Dragons because they're Big and Cool

>>53282023
The difference is that Spike and to a lesser extent Timmy will ditch their tribe for the next big thing. I've met someone who refused to run Purphoros in his Krenko deck because he's not a goblin.

>>53282023
>I build Eldrazi because _______

>>53282069
>I like cosmic horrors
> T. Johnny

>>53282069
>Holy fuck, 15/15
>t. Timmy

>>53282069
>...I am an insufferable cunt.

>>53282142
>T. Spike

>>53281819
No. Depending on the tribe, it can end up being very Johnny at times. For instance, Johnny appreciates all the synergy between cards and the way they interact with each other. Zombies for instance can be very Johnny with myriad combo potential and interesting ways of stringing effects together.

I'm trying to make a deck for each monocolor, but I find green to be incredibly boring. The only two potential monogreen commanders I've seen thus far are Titania and Reki. Which should I build? How do I make monogreen interesting?

>>53282704
Neither. Build Omnath, Locus of Mana. Sacrifice him with Life's Legacy and Greater Good, bring him right back but draw your entire deck in the progress, cast Vorinclex, cast Mana Reflection, get out Nykthos and Karametra's Acolyte, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Asceticism, Yeva, Nature's Herald, Dosan the Falling Leaf, and smash face.

>>53281545
>Some infinite combos are spike, therefore all infinite combos are spike
Fucking goon.

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>>53278793

>>53282809
>Spike doesn't play infinite combos
>Spike plays things like Food Chain Tazri
Fuck off Bryan.

>>53282824
Some tier 1 and 2 decks revolve around infinite combos, infinite combos are not inherently Spike.

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Anything neat you can do with this guy that isn't just teferi's puzzle box.dec?

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>>53282816

>>53282923
Storm and "shuffle your library" tribal

>>53282704
>not building Yeva drawgo

Name one thing (card, playstyle, Commander, etc) that you ALWAYS consider bullshit.

>>53283088
Bitching about things

>>53283088
The Great Aurora
Any chaos card

>>53283098
Good answer.

>>53283088
People that play a fetch, fetch and then pass without doing anything drives me insane.

>>53283088
Iona. It's just not fun, especially for monocoloured decks.

>>53283088
Winter Orb/Static Orb/Hokori, Dust Drinker effects. All it does is slow the game to a painful crawl. Thorn of Amethyst, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, and Grand Arbiter Augustin IV manipulate your curve, you can play around Gaddock Teeg, Leovold, and other hatebears, but if you tap out and they get down one of those cards it's just a long slog to get the mana and remove it.

So on a lore level, who's ready for a return to new phyrexia with a red/black good-aligned urubrask praetor commander? Think about it, Elesh norn killed sheoldred, and urabrask accepted the Mirran refugees. This is a perfect set up for a red/black (because red is the color of freedom, and black is the color of personal ambition, this is the perfect contrast to modern phrexia) urabrask and green/white or green/red Melina as the heroes and green/blue/white phyrexians as the villains.

It's the perfect upset of color expections, bant as the villains and rakdos as the heros

>>53278024
High tide

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>>53278793

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How is picture related in commander? I've been wanting to try it out for some time, but the only deck I have with red and white is Alesha and I'm not sure it'd synergize very well with it.

>>53283402
>Elesh Norn killed Sheoldred
She was suspected to have killed Sheoldred, but then Atraxa came out. Go read her lore, Sheoldred helped make Atraxa, along with Elesh Norn, Jin-Gitaxias, and Vorinclex. Urabrask stayed out, which is why Atraxa is WUBG. It's possible that Sheoldred, or some of the other Thanes, are still working against Elesh Norn in secret, and I'd enjoy that as well, but for now Urabrask is one Praetor standing to the side of the other four.

>>53283512
It's awful, just like almost all Boros cards except for Sunforger. It's a 5 drop that does nothing until your next turn and has no protection.

>>53283512
Ignore the other anon. If left unchecked it can and will win you the game by itself. It's just a matter of protecting it.

>>53278600
knocked a player from 40 to 0 on turn 5 after she convinced another player to try and knock me out of the game on his next turn.

>>53283518
Considering the two kings were part of Theros' ancient history by the time we rolled around in Standard, the Commander series can't really be trusted for setting a timeline. Theoretically, Atraxa could have even been created while Karn was still on the throne, since the lore for her mentions she was captured and compleated at the culmination of the war and the Phyrexians officially won the war a bit before Venser saved Karn.

Admittedly though, even when they said Elesh Norn seemed to have killed Sheoldred, they were deliberately ambiguous and never confirmed the kill.

>>53283536
Enchantments are the least vulnerable nonland permanents by default.

>>53283637
>she

>>53282816
Storm is in mono white and gideon isnt in red you fag.

>>53283729
(You)

>>53283729
Yes anon, women play magic as well.

>>53283741
Did you notice it's also a hybrid frame on a gold card? Pretty sure they're leaning heavily into the "terrible custom card" theme.

>>53283741
His planeswalker deck is white red

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>>53278793

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>>53283741
None of what you just wrote makes any sense.

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>>53283821
>playing with women

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>>53284036
i play with women but i don't have that option

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>>53284036
>not being a woman

>>53284062
I want to touch right's feminine penis

>>53284067
But anon i'm a little girl i still have to go through puberty

>>53284036
>being r9k trash

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>>53284088
no touching of feminine penises plesa

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>>53284088
Too bad. Now you get to play with big dicked, top bara bears who have stripped down for some good, wholesome EDH.

>>53279122
>tfw starting out playing commander last year with a friend, we both started playing magic during theros

>we decide to make decks from scratch

>his commander is Elspeth, sun's champion
>he tells me planeswalkers can be commanders (thanks c14)
>he wrecks me every match
>complains that it's a shit format and that we should get back to playing siege rhino standard.

>>53284280
Did you call him out on his bullshit?

>>53284388
Yeah, he told me it was my fault for not reading up on the rules

>>53284430
What a fag

>>53284280
>friend
Fix that shit.

>>53278990
That one is a masterpiece though.

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R8 my new project that I'm working on for 1v1 commander

What is best for elfball.dec?
Frealyse or Oldzuri?
Nath feels too much like stax i don't really like him.

>>53284495
You have three banned cards in your list, and are going to get blown the fuck out by aggro.

>>53284280
>Roommate is convinced that Omnath means mana doesn't empty from his mana pool
>even when he uses it

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I'm putting together a GAAIV deck in response to my boyfriend being a power gamer and I want to give him a serious challenge in our multiplayer games. The other people we play with may as well be durdle-dum and durdle-dee, so they're not going to be stepping up their game anytime soon.

>>53284495
Meren is such a ridiculously broken commander that even the biggest spikes at my store, who don't have any qualms stuffing their decks with 200€ cards, refuse to play it. I played around with the preconstructed Meren deck for a while and eventually took it apart, because it was just too easy.
But what do I know, maybe 1vs1 commander is completely different and she is totally fair there.

>>53284564
anon...

>>53284564
What's the problem?
>green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end.

>>53284607
>as steps and phases end
Normally mana empties after every phase. Omnath prevents this from happening for your green mana. That Anon's roommate apparently believes that his mana now never empties, even when he spends it.

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>>53284580
Stax is unfun, go spellslinger instead.

>>53284594
Meren can be fun as long as you don't play combo or stax and instead use her for pure value purposes

>>53284626
Thank you for translating.

>>53283457
This one is amazing

>>53284630
I have other decks for fun anon. This deck is for a different kind of fun.
So what are some cards, combos/interactions, and the like that I should be thinking about when trying to make the most oppressive/painful deck possible?

>>53284594
She is actually like tier 3 at best and just really frustrating in a casual meta where no one knows what graveyard hate is.

>>53284601
>>53284607
>Uses Green Mana to pump Omnath
>Spends that on spells, Omnath is still pumped
>Point that out
>He says that his Mana doesn't empty period
>Also he reads howling mines and other such effects as drawing 2 cards instead of one on upkeep and one on draw, which leads to him getting perplexed by cards that say you can only draw one card a turn.
I've just stopped playing mtg with him so I can avoid fights

>>53284723
Bring him to your LGS to play, when this happens call one of the abitual magic players or the shopkeepers and make them point out the rules he's wrong about. If this doesn't work then you might want him to be tested for clinical retardation

>>53284723
You need to play magic in a place with many other players. People avoid arguing about rules they don't understand when there is the danger of getting embarrassed in front of two dozen other people that actually know the rules.

>>53284762
>>53284776
He complains about WotC changing the rules and is convinced the way he plays was correct until Wizards changed everything around. It'll just upset him, he'll say it's bullshit and no one will have a good time.

>>53284828
I sincerely doubt he'll act this mich retarded in a public place. Try it, worst case scenario he'll out himself as an unrecoverable douche in front of people and you might make new friends to play with.

>>53284828
Have you tried breaking down and crying while explaining?

>>53284828
You can look up the rule history of every card on the internet and prove him wrong on this. But I get your point, he would just move the goalpost and claim someone explained it to him like this.

>>53284723
>He says that his Mana doesn't empty period

thats some critical thinking there, ask him if he thinks that's balanced.

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What is a good alternative to Daretti as commander? I like my red artifact deck, but Daretti is too powerful and a one card combo machine is really lame.

>>53285294
Slobad

>>53285294
Daretti is super weak though.

Slobad is probably what you're looking for.

>>53285300
>>53285314
Slobad looks good. But is Daretti really weak? One time I won with my Daretti deck, even after everyone else piled on me. Another time some guy with a really expensive Daretti deck won the game on the 5th turn after he cheated loads of stuff on the battlefield.

>>53285423
No real way to generate card advantage, is attackable, and even being left alone doesn't really give Daretti a win state.

A turn 5 win is also really slow when you're talking about expensive decks.

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Anyone had any experience switching out Xenagos for Samut, Voice of Dissent? As much as adding another color with much of the same deckfunctions sounds, it doesn't seems that worth it. Best I can come up with is that you'll get some fun cards like new Odric, Heartless Hidegutsu and Mom. Seems more combo-y than Xenagos, but on the plus side not everything ends in 1 hit.

>>53284580
Go to edhrec.com, view GAAIV as a commander, click the advanced filters box, type in smoke stack, winter orb, thorn of amethyst, or any other mean card you've seen, select the most hateful things you see on the screen, stop asking people on a Bhutanese carpet weaving site to spoonfeed you deck tech.

>>53285516
Oh yeah drop a combo commander for a 5mana do-nothing card so you can be in the single worst tricolor combination in the game.

How do you guys feel about Druids' Repository in a Hapatra deck?

>>53285423
>No real way to generate card advantage
What? His +2 is card advantage, it filters your deck while dumping shit into the gy. And guess what his other two abilities do? Yup, synergize with the graveyard.
>is attackable
I'll give you that, though generally he's played with stax, tax, and mld to get rid of anything that'd touch him.
>and even being left alone doesn't really give Daretti a win state.
Again, what? Game plan with daretti is fast mana rocks to drop him early, drop mld and/or stax effects to remove any opposition; then filter deck into your hand and graveyard with +2 occasionally using -2 to pull out more stax, utility artifacts, beaters, or rocks as needed; once you ult, it's game over unless there is a very well timed tormods crypt (which is unlikely because of tax effects) and even then you have the upper hand.
>A turn 5 win is also really slow
Yeah it is, that's why Daretti is a top tier 75% commander, people need to know that rather than trying to ramp the first 3-5 turns you need to hold mana for counter spells, artifact, or graveyard hate and hopefully drop an early clock to keep daretti down.

If I'm being overly autistic, sorry, I'm just not seeing how you come to those conclusions with such an easy to build around commander. He's like a mono red artifact Meren.

>>53285646
You responded to the wrong post.

>>53285767
Fuck me, I meant >>53285458
That's what I get for ranting while tired, thank you for the assistance.

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I started building Noyan Dar earlier this evening, and I wanted to ask here if anyone might have some tips for me. Maybe some odd interactions or something. I feel like vigilance will be useful, and I know there are a few cards that can untap all my creatures in white, so thats extra mana in the second main phase.

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>>53285895

Thank me later.

>>53281574
The guy couldn't have attacked, unless he attacks before saccing Fires

>>53281435
That sounds sad.

>>53282824
Playstyles can't be Spike at all, Spike cares about winning, he'll play craw wurm.dec if that has the best winrate.

Combos are distinctly Johnny, so is storm. Foodchain Tazri is a Johnny/Spike deck.

>>53282704
Say it with me lad:

S E T O N D R U I D S T O R M

>>53283324
Sometimes I have to play a turn 2 winter orb in my monobrown deck if I don't have enough ramp to get Kozilek online fast, your tears only make me happier about my choice.

>>53284544
What are you talking about? There's no banned cards there.
I'm more confused about Mayor of Avabruck

>>53284114
I want /a/ to stay

>>53285646
>say he doesn't generate real card advantage
>generates virtual card advantage
>he definitely generates card advantage!
Can you fucking read?

>generally he's played in bad deck
>this somehow makes him good
Excluding stax but he isn't even good stax commander compared to Derevi and Teferi.

>all those assumptions on when he ults, not if
He won't, but even when he does the strongest state he provides is one where you're looping valuable artifact creatures like Wurmcoil.

So to sum it up, in the color of shiity wincons, no card advantage and no tutors Daretti is a shitty source of virtual card advantage, shitty card selection, and an overall shitty wincon while underperforming at stax and reanimator strategies compared to basically anyone else.

>top tier 75%
>tormod's crypt is unlikely because of tax effects
Both of those statements are oxymorons. Just because he wins in your Craw Wurm meta doesn't mean he's good.

>>53284580
I want the gays to leave.

>>53286204
Card advantage is having access to more cards right? Looting generally isn't card advantage because you don't gain more usable cards, just choices about which cards you want to trade for wild cards. If you have a trash for treasure as the -2 and your deck is artifact based then you don't mind dumping a mycosynth lattice, tangle wire, krark clan Ironworks, etc for later. His +2 reads "move two cards from your hand to your second hand and then draw two".
To boil down my argument on this point: milling or looting effects on decks centered around graveyard recursion engines are card advantage effects.

I wouldn't play him as anything except stax because I don't think there's enough synergy for a beer league style deck. I have feldon for that. I'm unsure what you mean about him being played in a bad deck, stax is not a bad deck...
And yeah, teferi and derevi are both better, especially if you're in a high power (tfc, pfc, etc) meta. I never claimed otherwise.

Yeah, I didn't say when he ults, I just outlined the basic game plan, not magical Christmasland plays even. Obviously games have variance and you're not always going to win, but you've got a strong chance at being competitive if not oppressive in most metas. And I don't run wurmcoil, it's too slow of a wincon and doesn't provide enough value for my strategy; myr battle sphere is my preferred wincon, each turn round increases your damage output by 32 rather than 9.

Top tier 75%, first off, my claim is that of the decks generally accepted as 75% (usually beating decks in casual metas but generally losing to top tier cEDH decks) it is strong (if my definition of 75% is off just let me know and we can talk about that). I find it is strong against these decks due to attacking their resources before their game plan can get on the road. Brago, Meren, probably Karador (haven't personally played against one), and selvala are all fair game imo.

Why is Tinker banned again?

>>53286204
>>53286742
Cont.
Tormod's crypt or other cheap graveyard hate needs to be played out of opening hands because generally my first mld is followed by a tangle wire, smoke stack, winter orb, thorn of amethyst, lodestone golem, etc that make casting grave hate difficult (not lodestone in the case of Tormod's, duh). And I run null brooch, REB, and pyroblast to help protect myself, obviously it won't work every time, but I'm not saying daretti is how to win every game, just that he naturally allows for a strong game plan with very specific weaknesses (well timed interactions in the form of counters and grave/artifact hate) that are easily planned for. This allows for what is imo, dynamic game play with enough strength to be fun for me and enough openings for opponents to play around.

>>53286796
First turn Blightsteel Colossus, seems fair.

>>53285569
Haste and untap-shenanigans could work though

How do I build Onezuri Twozuri Newzuri Bluezuri? Just dorks and token generators and proliferate triggers?

>>53287065
sage of hours

>>53286910
It's only turn 1 if you have other degenerate shit like mana crypt and sol ring.

>>53287233
Funny how mana crypt and sol ring play nice in metas not populated with autists but tinker doesn't and never did.

>>53287065
Don't even bother with the proliferate triggers. Literally just token shitters and cards that benefit from having counters. Very boring deck because it absolutely folds when ezuri is not out.

>>53287267
tinker can end the game in one turn in the right deck.
Crypt and Sol ring just provide ramp. Yes they can ramp into big plays, but never turn 1 game enders

>>53287302
Funny enough, you can ramp into turn 1 wins with them, so that's not true.

Also consider that tinkers way to get turn 1 game enders only works with fast mana.

I wonder what the actual problem card is.

>>53286179
MTGO has its own banlist for commander now.

Sol Ring, Mana Crypt and Gaea's Cradle are banned because gofast

>>53287292
Well that just makes it basically the same as my Vorel deck.

>>53287233
>what are Lotus Petal and Moxen

Hi EDHG anyone can help me with my first EDH Deck? http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-05-17-white-commander/

Is Commander vs. on Youtube normally that fucking bad? I figured it would be the easiest way to introduced some friends to commander but the lot of them are so incompetent I might be better off teaching my friends on my own

>>53287973
They used to be good, but now days u have better options like "Game Knights" Form the command zone in youtube.

>>53287932
First step for help is to set the deck on not private.

>>53285895
consecrate land, terra eternal and indestructibility are good enchantments to have

I need some help with wincons or generally big threats I can put in my Alesha, Who Smiles at Death deck. Preferably some creature that can be reanimated with Alesha and isn't an infinite combo.

I'm running Master of Cruelties and I'm looking for other things that can pose a similar threat or grow to become one. I've been trying to run Ignition Team, but it's not very evasive, doesn't have trample and becomes worse as people get knocked out of the game. Other than that it fits the bill of what I'm looking for since it can become gigantic and be cheated out with Alesha.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

>>53288124
noosegraf mob

>>53288059
Sorry for that heres the deck http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/monowhite-voltron/
>>53287932
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/monowhite-voltron/

>>53288143
I'm actually running noosegraf mob and it seems to work very well. Not sure if I should go for more token generators or something else.

>>53287973
They have started doing really fucking stupid theme days. And they are forced to play with new cards which might be kinda shit.

And they have an extreme badwrongfun bias so they don't even play with certain cards or archetypes.

It took 6 seasons for one of them to play a prison/tax deck.

Also random deck days are the worse because they have to play with deck they often don't know how to pilot or enjoy.

>>53288167
>32 lands
>3-4 manarocks

>>53288124
since you want something that can grow big, maybe taurean mauler?

>>53279445
Obviously the wither is for fight shenanigens and trample is to get through Fog Patch.

>>53283512
It's a Stax card and it's insane in stax.
Grab this and then either Smokestack or Descent into Madness and just laugh as your opponents sacrifice all of their permanents.

>>53288281
Not the guy posting, but I've never been super impressed by Mauler. It usually only gets to be a 7/7 or so before it gets hit by a stray Wrath, and until then it's just getting chumped. It's cheap, but it has no evasion and no protection.

>>53287973
Watch only the McDarby vs West videos, they were better hosts and knew how to play their decks. They didn't play a huge range of decks tho.

>>53288281
Growing big was just an example. Since Alesha can only reanimate creatures with power 2 or less I thought it'd be nice if they were small while in the graveyard and then grew while entering the battlefield. I just want things that can end the game, since that's what I've been struggling with. I've been considering tree of perdition to lower people's life and then beat them with my weenie creatures, but I'm not sure how well that's going to work either.

>>53281683
So you cycle Resounding Silence or Wave. Job done.

>>53288575
Oh wait it has defender. Resounding Wave it is, then.

>>53285895
To Arms, Teferi's Response, and Abzan Falconer. Your 2 best boardwipes will be Planar Outburst and Tragic Arrogance, due to the single phrase "Nonland"

>>53287755
>degenerate shit like
>shit like
>like
Learn to read.+

>>53288167
You could add vehicles and play wrath of gods effects to kill everything while they aren't creatures. What is the point of Worldslayer? Also I don't see Mentor of the Meek that useful in that deck.

>>53288637
>Lotus Petal
>legal Moxen
>degenerate
Don't you have praetor MLD post to be created?

>>53288124
In terms of abusing the whole 0/0 thing, Drakestown Forgotten and Spike Cannibal can get pretty big sometimes and there's always Pentavus, of course. Triskelavus and Triskelion are also fairly useful and work similarly.

Angel of Invention is both versatile and fairly threatening. Arashin Foremost can give Alesha double strike, which can make it pretty easy to hit 21 commander damage.

>>53287302
Tinker is a very strong card that becomes absurd with fast mana.

Fast mana cards are very strong cards that will elevate decent combos into an absurd territory.

The difference betwrrn the two is that Tinker is good at 1 thing, and becomes even more degenerate with the right support, while fast mana makes everything that is even a little strong absurdly degenerate.

It's pretty obvious which is stronger, there's a reason why the power nine is mostly made up of fast mana.

>>53286057
Thats some good value.

>>53288090
I hadn't seen Consecrate Land yet, nice add.

>>53288618
To Arms! is the kind of shit I want. Abzan Falconer seems pretty great. Right now I only have a Wonder for flying support, so it will be a good backup for sure.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

>>53288734
To be fair, the Power 9 also scale way better in multiples than most cards.

A hand with 4 Tinkers is 3 too many. A hand with 4 Mox Sapphire means you win.

>>53288709
Thanks. Several cards there that I had never seen before. I'll definitely see if I can make some of them work.

>>53288908
Sewer Nemesis is another option for something that Alesha can hit that's bigger than it 'should' be.

>>53288660
They are degenerate retard, there's a reason why lotus petal is run in every t1 deck. Just because you only use lotus petal to play your voltaic key so that you can give your juggernaut vigilance doesn't mean that other people don't know how to use it.

And we were talking about fast man, and lotus petal and the legal moxen are exactly that.

>>53289051
>Lotus Petal is run in every t1 deck
Lotus Petal is nowhere near degenerate on its own. Putting you up by +1 mana for exactly one turn is not "degenerate", it's barely even GOOD.

It's used in those decks because those decks, specifically, want to combo off as fast as possible. It's not even in all of them- a Lotus Petal doesn't help Food Chain Tazri much, because while it can get out a theoretical Turn 1 Food Chain, that does you zero good without bodies to feed to it.

Lotus Petal is a piece in a deck where +1 mana for one turn is the difference between losing and winning. It's not "degenerate" in the sense that any deck you jam it into is immediately better for it. Most decks would get WORSE.

>>53289051
>They are degenerate retard, there's a reason why lotus petal is run in every t1 deck.

The reason being "I made that up".
Go take a quick look at MtGTop8 or MtGGoldfish in the Commander sections and you'll see Lotus Petal is not only not "run in every t1 deck", it's barely played at all.

>>53289151
I had a friend with a pubstomp Animar deck and it was like pulling teeth to convince him to pull Lotus Petal and the Spirit Guides. He'd bring up the handful of times that he'd used them for a turn 1 Animar, and conveniently forget all the times he drew into them on turn 5 when they were completely and utterly blank cards.

>>53289051
>1 free mana for one turn is degenerate
It's literally only played in Storm and Doomsday, because 1 mana usually is super valuable, for you aim to win as fast as possible.
Chain of Vapor, Gush, Predict and Probe are also all played in most of them and they're far from degenerate

>>53289051
>1 free mana for one turn is degenerate
It's literally only played in Storm and Doomsday, because 1 mana usually is super valuable, for you aim to win as fast as possible.
Chain of Vapor, Gush, Predict and Probe are also all played in most of them and they're far from degenerate

>>53288030

yep, game knights is alright. Well edited and the players aren't just durdling around to try and make a longer video

>>53289051
Shit like Jelava/Yidris storm or Zur Doomsday runs Lotus Petal because it runs a very low mana curve, mulligans very aggressively, and cuts lands to put in more combo pieces. It's not common except in decks that are already degenerate.

Can anyone tell me some cards that are great for reusable recursion? I'd like to have a couple cards in my deck to get my thragtusk, reefworm etc back to my hand. (Can't be white, preferably a cheaper card $-wise)

Stuff like Genesis, Golgari Guildmage, Malevolent Awakening. These are the only three I have in mind but if anyone has better options let me know!

>>53288660
I used to think that land destruction had no place in casual EDH... But now I realize I had a warped view of casual EDH. I used to think that cards like Sheoldred, Jitte, Ulamog, a few God enchantment creatures, etc all had no place in casual EDH.
Nowadays I realize that these things are fine for casual EDH, but with that realization I've also realized that Land Destruction should be fine as well. The truth is that if someone is playing mono red they not only can't take care of powerful enchantments but they have very few ways to take out creatures with over 7 toughness or indestructible creatures. So are you going to tell me that they should either A) get very lucky or B) willingly lose the game because they have no options?
No, neither of those choices are acceptable. The truth is that land destruction is the most powerful tool in Red's arsenal, not using it puts mono red players at a supreme disadvantage. If you feel like you're allowed to use supremely strong creatures "because they can be removed" or supremely strong enchantments "because they can be removed" then I feel that I'm allowed to use supremely strong land destruction "because you can run mana rocks".
And just as you say "Well you should run more removal!" I say "Well you should run more mana rocks!" and then you can say "Well I do but they aren't in my hand right now!" and I reply WITH THE EXACT SAME SENTIMENT towards removal.
So at the end of the day I say this; If the point of casual edh is still to win, which it obviously is if you're running $20 powerful praetors, then I'm going to do what I can to win, which is to keep you from being able to play those praetors.

>>53289523
Thragtusk is kinda shitty in EDH, bro.

As for B/G Recursion, what ISN'T there? Deadbridge Chant, Sheoldred, Whip of Erebos (kinda)

>>53278990
>costs 4U

Gets me every time.

>>53289523
There's a reason why every green deck out there runs Eternal Witness. It's just so good. Need it more than once? Flicker it.

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>>53289523

>>53289871
Perfect! Thanks anon.

>>53289603
>>Thragtusk is kinda shitty in EDH, bro.
Kinda underrated actually, since he provides boardwipe insurance. He's usually inferior to Wurmcoil however.

>>53288584
Or just cast Final Judgment/Descend Upon the Sinful. Shit, even Innocent Blood or Crack the Earth kills it.

>>53279287
>doubling season is banned in the format

Can I just say that I'm fucking amazed at how long my Vial Smasher stays on the board in any given game? No one ever wants to use single target removal on him because he's "just a 2/3", so the only time he dies is to board wipes. Which admittedly happens often in any EDH multi match but holy shit he usually does at least 25 damage spread out before he dies for the first time in a game.

Quick question- If you get a token copy of prototype portal, can you imprint something different onto the second prototype portal?

Can you prototype portal a prototype portal in commander to get infinite prototype portals?

>>53285569
>single worst tricolor combination in the game
That's not Jeskai though.

>>53279122
I'm still very much hoping that the Archenemy Bolas has the "can be your commander" line.

>>53287417
Honestly though, had Leovold been banned and Top unbanned in MTGO, I'd adopt their banlist for IRL too.

>>53285895
There's two white enchantments that I found when building an awakening deck.. Let me look them up real quick.

Found them.

Sacred Ground.
Equinox

They're both SO broken if you can get them out in a land creature deck. Equinox literally counters wraths/board wipes by tapping a single land. Sacred Ground returns all your lands to play (not as creatures, but whatever) in the event of a board wipe.

>>53290064
You can already have Bolas as a commander though.

>>53290028
That's a stupid statement.

I need spicy tech in esper colors that trigger off of discarding a card, already have drake haven, faith of the devoted, telekinetic bonds, spirit cairn, and astral slide.

Not stuff off of opponenenta discarding.

>>53290082
>Top unbanned in MTGO

It's stupid to complain about the Top ban. It's necessary just because resolving Top is even more time consuming in Online than it is in Paper.

>>53290167
Might as well ban Sylvan Library, Mirri's Guile and every single repeatable scry effect in the game.

>>53290194
Sylvan Library can be banned this second I would be so stoked.

>>53290130
You could already have had Borborygmos as a commander, and then they printed a new one.

>>53289998
Sure, why couldn't you? You need to get Prototype Portal in your hand though and keep track of which portal has which imprint

>>53290222
Enjoy Esper: the format then

>>53290223
Kinda ironic considering that neither sees much play

>>53290194
Both are once per turn. Top can be any time you're about to draw and don't already know the top 3 cards of your library, such as if you've shuffled or if you've drawn through them. It's also usable in any deck, and resistant to removal.

I wish Thran Dynamo were a few dollars cheaper...

>>53290293
>Both are once per turn
Both are also mandatory.
>It's also usable in any deck
Which is why I don't want it banned. I don't want to pay 5x10 bucks for a separate scry card for each color.
>and resistant to removal
Play codex shredder.

>>53288659
I have mentor of the meek also was thinking running smuggler also in the deck.

>>53290343
So you decided to just ignore the most significant issue with the card because you don't have a rebuttal for that part, right?

>>53290396
Which one?

>>53290415
Top being usable any time it would be convenient to you, meaning decks looking to make the most out of top will usually be resolving it multiple times on the same turn.

>>53290502
>meaning decks looking to make the most out of top will usually be resolving it multiple times on the same turn.
If you need to resolve Top more than twice between two untap steps, then you're just plain bad at the game. You're just wasting mana.

>>53290502
>>53290539
Of course I should note that my resolving Top twice comment relates to commander before you legacyfags jump on my throat

>>53290539
>>53290571
With tutor effects, you can easily setup scenarios where the top 3 cards of your library will be randomized between draws if the cards Top showed you aren't currently useful, or you need to sequence cards in such a way where you'll burn through the top few cards, such as moving a land to the top for the sake of Oracle of Mul Daya or Courser.

You're only thinking about Top from the viewpoint of someone looking to "use" it, not someone looking to abuse it.

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What do with oversized yidris

>>53290796
>for the sake of Oracle of Mul Daya or Courser.
So he picks up the top 3 cards for 1 mana, places a land down and puts two cards back. Is that more time consuming that the tutor that preceded it? Are you okay with fetchlands in the first two turns of every game?

>>53290814
Wipe your fetid asshole with it.

>>53290539
>If you need to resolve Top more than twice between two untap steps, then you're just plain bad at the game. You're just wasting mana.

You do also need to take into account that a significant number of Magic players just plain bad. If you let every idiot that owns a Divining Top play it, chances are good that a lot of them will be using multiple times each turn because they straight up forgot what order they put the cards in or changed their minds, and you can't just let them casually go ahead and look like you can in paper.

>>53290878
>and you can't just let them casually go ahead and look like you can in paper.
I'm talking about the theoretical application of MTGO rules in paper, so in this scenario I can.

>>53290860
Are you suggesting some sort of slippery slope scenario where me saying Top deserves to be banned for logistical issues means I have to decry every tutor or I'm being a hypocrite?

>>53290910
Then talk it out with your playgroup instead of /edhg/, you knob. If you want to talk about "theoretical applications" of rules, it doesn't fucking matter what anyone else thinks as long as the people that would be affected by those rules are agreeable.

>>53290922
How are commonplace free tutor effects commonly seen even in monocolor decks for thinning purposes not a cause of logistical issues?

>>53290947
>Honestly though, had Leovold been banned and Top unbanned in MTGO, I'd adopt their banlist for IRL too.
This was literally my initial comment. You double knob.

>>53290949
How is that relevant to the conversation at hand?

>>53291009
You're the one complaining that Top is too timewasting, or at least taking the position of that person. I say that there are much bigger timewasters to be commonly seen in the format that people appear to be okay with for some reason.

>>53290967
Can't say that sounds like "talking it out with your playgroup".

>>53291059
Well it's usually easier for a playgroup to adopt an already established archetype than to settle upon one by some kind of hair splitting agreement.

>>53289924
"A vanilla 3/3" is not very good boardwipe insurance, and the body it's attached to in the first place is super mediocre and not worth a slot. By turn 5, there's no way in hell they don't have a 3/x or bigger blocker completely shutting it off from attacking, so it's really just a 3/3 for 5 that gains you 5 life.

>>53291053
Saying "Well, these cards waste a bunch of time too" is not an argument for saying Divining Top is fine.

>>53291150
Give me a reasonable alternative for monored that I can also carry into my other decks and I will concede Top into the banned realm. Don't forget to give me a refund for it.

>>53278600
>>53278600
>>53278600

New thread up

>>53291242
Closest you're gonna get is Crystal Ball.

>>53291253

>>53291235
>>53291235
>>53291235

Here's the actual new thread. How embarrassing.

>>53291256
>costs 3 mana
>in a color for which hitting your 3rd landdrop in time is a do or die scenario
As an alternative, it's fucking shit

>>53291253
You suffer from brain deficiencies?

Building Xenagos because my playgroup complains that all I play is control. Is there any secret tech I should know about?

>>53291297
Yes, it's not a very good alternative, but you also never said it needed to cost 1 mana.

I don't know what kinda fucked up EDH you're playing where "missing my third land drop" is a real problem you have to worry about.

>>53291337
Malignus is a good one.

>>53278792
I wish this meme would die.

I'll even take "Stax is the best archetype" back.

>>53278729
That's a tough trifecta to hit, though. To be playable in Standard they either need to damn near win you the game for 6 mana, or cost 4-5 and be aggressive (which is what they've been doing- Thunderbreak Regent, Glorybringer, Stormbreath). If you go too "big", they're either too expensive to be playable in Standard/Limited, or they're too strong in Limited.

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117KB, 223x311px

>>53291387
>they're too strong in Limited
>implying wizards cares

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26KB, 200x285px

>>53278600
>thread question

Eternal dominion dualcasted 8 times. know it's baby tier, but it sure made an interesting 5v1

>>53290153
Wharf Infiltrator, if you plan on cycling creatures.

I wish Cyclonic Rift would die a horrible death.

>>53290194
Top is so much easier to tutor for and so much harder to remove, and the ability to draw a card at any time provides even more possible plays to consider

>>53290343
>the response to "resistant to removal" is an incredibly niche answer barely worth running instead of "cast removal in response to the tap ability"
Shitter detected

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146KB, 987x799px

I dont know if you guys saw this yet...