Shadow War: Armageddon general /swag/

I played my first couple of games today as part of a campaign and actually won all three of my games due to bottle tests. I'm guessing that's typical, but none of us really came close to completing the objectives. Last game was a four-person free-for-all and I was getting fucked up until it was down to me and one other player, we just slugged it out until he bottled out.

Question guys, I want to do an inquisition killteam since I have some coil models to use for it. Do I go for snipers, storm bolters, or a mix on my acolytes?

>>53226063
Assume that the snipers will have toxin rounds.

>>53226063
probably a good idea to have one sniper at least

>>53226063
Run a toxin sniper. Having some long range cover to support your short/midrange team can help a lot. Maybe consider two later on, since stormbolters do get ranged sometimes, and auto-wound helps vs crap like Nurgle Marines.

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Thanks to the anons from last thread, I have built my Ork kill team! Paint soon!

Going to play a campaign on Monday and see how they do.

what's a good mark of chaos to use that isn't nurgle that will actually be useful

>>53227852
Nurgle > Slaanesh > Undivided > Tzeentch > Khorne

Is the arc rifle worthwhile for a Skitarii team? I'd take a second plasma caliver, but you only get one in a box. S5 AP- doesn't look any better than the galvanic rifle's S4 AP1.

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Any word on rules for Imperial Knight teams ?

>>53227852
>>53228252
>implying Undivided isn't great for bottle tests
>implying Khorne isn't perfect for building a 4 dice CC monster Champion

They all have their uses.

>>53228396
The leadership from undivided is more to stop your guys panicking as an inconvenient time and 4 dice isn't that useful, you only need enough to roll that 6.

anyone got the link to the better version of the pdf posted recently?
(not the one thats in OP)

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Is it better for an Inquisition Kill-team to go Initiate-heavy for numbers or spend more on a couple of kitted-out Crusaders with power sword & board?

>>53228786
Melee inquisitor + a crusader bodyguard for objectives and then losts initiates for ranged support.

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>>53228888
>Those quads

Your word is law, Inquisitor...

Is it a good idea to recruit a naked gunner and then in my next game use my rearm bonus to get them a weapon?

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Finished painting my space marine scouts today, they are old school metal scouts too.

Originally they were all orange tiger striped, but had to strip them all and repaint, only kept the sergeants cloak for nostalgia reasons.

Hopefully they will play well at my shop.

>>53228947
Depends what team you're building. I'm assuming your Sisters so my advice is it might not go too well. I tried a similar thing and it can put you pretty far behind most crews spending all your points on one character while your opponents are getting extra bodies or gun gizmos.

You're better off giving them a weapon at the start, even if it's something that isn't a Heavy Bolter.

>>53225637
Some kind anon posted the standalone rulebook pdf a few threads back, worth replacing the scan in the OP with it desu

https://mega.nz/#!m9BTkKCC!7k0JPHqH0hQpcdV9ZjX5CqrHIRR-ujkDsrVKdmDKrcc

>>53228947
Which team? something like Tyranids can do it well, Tau are better off without any guns, guardsmen rely upon them for any actual killing power.

>>53229015
>https://mega.nz/#!m9BTkKCC!7k0JPHqH0hQpcdV9ZjX5CqrHIRR-ujkDsrVKdmDKrcc

thats the one i was after, thanks!

>>53229041

Sisters. I already have a Flamer and a Simulacrum.

>>53228598
You need enough to roll a couple 6s, fuckers can parry you know?
Trip 6s would be devilish, now parry this mr 2 swords guy, but doubles are almost always good enough.

>>53229315
A gunner with a basic weapon/another flamer's not a bad idea, then. I'd dodge the simulacrum until you have a bunch of bolter bitches with red dots rather than having it from the start, so as to gain the maximum from your kinda hefty investment-50 points is a lot at start, whereas if you play four games in a night the investment pales by comparison. Does four bolter girls, two flamer specialists and a leader fit in 1k?

Is the plasma pistol a better option than bolt pistol for my Aspiring Champion (MoT)? Or is it better to use the bolt pistol and get inferno bolts?

>>53229476
Plasma pistols are great, High Impact, 18" range.

>MoT
Why? Khorne, Nurgle and Undivided are all better, if you're in a situation where that 5+ Invuln becomes applicable you're fucked anyway.

>>53229592
Had a box of rubric marines, got some cultists for cheap and now I've got my first killteam. Figure they gotta be tzeentch as they're all blue and stuff

>>53229608
Rubrics are different to MoT marines. There are no Rubrics in SWA, same way there are no Berserkers, Noise Marines etc... I mean that being said your FLGS might not have a problem with you using Rubrics as ornate Tzeentchian marines, but also keep in mind that Rubrics are bigger and that may disadvantage you when it comes to cover. As an eternal servant of Tzeentch it also rubs me up the wrong way.

>>53229625
Yea I didn't mean to imply I would be playing them as Rubrics sorry. Figured they were close enough to regular CSM but didn't know the models were bigger until my brother bought some normie Marines.

Unfortunately no FLGS but me and my bro will be playing within a week or so. Got a box of immortal/deathmarks should be in tomorrow and once they're painted just gotta finish terrain. I've started painting everything and my autism compels me to not play the game until everything is painted

>>53229404

It should, but you'd need the drop a few red dots.
I was lucky in my last game where I rolled marksman for my leader as an advance and +1 BS for a Bolter sister because of "What doesn't kill you.."

>>53229625

>What is "count as"?

>>53229733
>what is low model count that pretty much negates the need for counts-as

Getting your hands on one box of standard troops isn't hard.

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Thoughts? Just worried about a possibly low model count when it comes to such squishy dudes.

Veteran Sergeant: 205pts
Boltgun, Power Sword

Veteran Guardsman: 100pts
Chainsword, Laspistol

Special Weapons Operative: 195pts
Grenade Launcher w/ frag and krak

Special Weapons Operative: 135pts
Sniper Rifle, Toxic Rounds, Camo Gear

Veteran Guardsman: 75pts
Lasgun

Veteran Guardsman: 75pts
Lasgun

Veteran Guardsman: 75pts
Lasgun

Veteran Guardsman: 70pts
Shotgun

Veteran Guardsman: 70pts
Shotgun

Anygood?

Plan on playing Steel Legion in a local campaign so touch limited on models I can use. Few weapon swaps aren't beyond my ability to convert though.

>>53229768
Are you really complaining about using rubricae as MoT marines? This is next level autism.

>>53230063
Did you even read my post? Go on, try actually reading properly for once.

Can you still Hide if you are Downed??

The rules are pretty unclear

>>53230083
There's nothing saying you can't.

>>53230115
It says they can 'do nothing' except the 2'' move

>>53230140
Oh right, I was reading the Hiding rules. Well, there you go.

>>53230140
Why is this confusing? They can do nothing but the 2in move.

>>53229625

This is the most autistic shit I have ever heard. Rubrics, Noise, Plague, Berserkers etc etc are all still Chaos Space Marines, just because they're a bit flamboyant doesn't change that.

>>53229592

Access to Inferno Bolts

>>53230356
>This is the most autistic shit I have ever heard.
You haven't been here long I take it.

Right now the contest is between To-Hit modifiers don't apply to anything guy, the guy who pastas a retarded autistic post he made on yaktribe that got 0 replies there and the dude who plays with his cat.

>>53229945
I feel the chainsword and seismic cannon are kinda a waste. I would go either a second heavy stubber, or a mining lazer if you think you're going against nids. Also consider giving your hybrids/initiates bolt pistols

>>53230564

> and the dude that makes lists of autistic shit that happened so he can regurgitate them to get some sort of leg up on an internet message board

You missed one out...

>>53230615
Seismic cannons are not a sensible weapon or an efficient use of points. They are, however hilariously powerful.

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>>53230615
>mfw bs4 bolt pistol hybrid that I'm going to dump stealth skills on
If he gets infiltrate the rape will never stop.

>>53230638
Which one of the people listed was you?

>>53230220
Buuuuuut Hiding is something you can just declare as part of a move.

So can they declare it as part of the 2" crawl move?

>>53230638
I know the term is used pretty flexibly here, but I don't think remembering recent events is autistic.

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>>53229946
DUDE! I was going to do steel legion too, if i can mix them with an inquisitorial element or storm troopers.

If it were me i'd consider not giving the Sgt a boltgun AND power sword. You have to commit to either melee or ranged to avoid wasting half your time every round.

Heres an idea for the shotgun conversion.

>>53230660
>Not rolling guerilla on all your dudes so they all have scavenger and you get +150 points to spend per game then

Cobbled a bunch of Orks out of an old Black Reach box and some spares, how's this look?

Boss Nob - 160 pts
Slugga - 10 pts
Choppa - 10 pts
'Eavy armour- 25 pts

Spanna Boy - 70 pts
Big shoota - 150 pts

Spanna Boy - 70 pts
Big shoota - 150 pts

Boy - 60 pts
Slugga - 10 pts
Choppa - 10 pts

Boy - 60 pts
Slugga - 10 pts
Choppa - 10 pts

Boy - 60 pts
Slugga - 10 pts
Buzz-choppa - 15 pts

Yoof - 30 pts
Shoota - 25 pts

Yoof - 30 pts
Shoota - 25 pts

>>53231017
Big Shoota Spannas benefit greatly from red-dot laser sights.

>>53228643
If I end up making another SWAG thread, I'll add this to the OP

https://mega.nz/#!m9BTkKCC!7k0JPHqH0hQpcdV9ZjX5CqrHIRR-ujkDsrVKdmDKrcc

>>53229625
>buy rubric marines plastic kit
>make CSM killteam with Mark of Tzeench and Warpfire ammo
>exalted sorceror model for Aspirant
>tzangors for cultists

Seems Changey enough

>>53231188
Ooh, nice! Who or what would you recommend dropping in order to afford one, or should I hang on until I have some prometheum to flog?

>>53231386
yup, just use the AOS tzaangor melee weapons and you're golden.

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>>53230831

Yeah the only reason he has the boltgun is I had points spare and not much else to spend them on. I suppose I could give 2 guys camo gear.

Are you annoyed that IG can't use missile launchers? I was, these two guys are great and it's a shame not to use them.

At first I thought you could represent a missile launcher by giving a grenade launcher a telescopic sight but you can't do that either.

>>53231492
I don't think they could be bothered to come up with rules for heavy weapon teams.

>>53231600

Then don't, just give them access to heavy weapons like everyone else.

I understand why they built the lists around the miniatures but it does lead to some discrepancies. It's like the old house weapon lists but about 100x worse.

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Genestealer cult gang is coming along. Painting is a real slog, still being new to this. Having 9 armed members right off the bat seems like it's gonna be pretty strong.
thankfully nobody plays nids in my group

What is a good way to build a Space Marine Scout team? Running Dark Angels (So Angels of Redemption I guess), if that matters.

The original plan was:
- Scout Sergeant with Chain Sword and Plasma Pistol, and frag grenades. Also Camo gear. 305 points
- Gunner with Heavy Bolter. Camo Gear included. 295 points.
- Scout with Camo gear, photo visor, Sniper rifle and Toxic rounds, plus a bolt pistol. 200 point.
- Scout with Camo gear, photo visor, Sniper rifle and Toxic rounds, plus a bolt pistol. 200 point.

Good/bad?

>>53232417
4 dudes seems bad. You have a ton of toys but no boys. What's gonna happen to you at mid range/close engagement? 0 bolter dudes seems bad

>>53231389
eh, you don't have anything obviously bad so it's all up to what you want to prioritize.

>>53232417
Too much points spent on gear, not enough bodies.

>>53232417
literally the moment one of them goes down you're on the clock to bottle, its why 5 guys is kinda standard because it moves it to 2 guys.

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>>53232417
Just one sniper would be good, hold off on the Heavy bolter and just start with two Specialists with Bolt Pistols, that way you can buy the Heavy weapons down the road. Two noviates, one with a bolter and the other with a shotgun would round out the list. I played the start of my first campaign yesterday and this is how my list looks now after winning 3 out of my 4 games.

>>53232417
Drop the tox rounds and photo visors on the snipers, save it for later upgrades. Same with the chainsword on the sargeant until you give him some kind of melee skill. Use the points to get another scout with boltgun.

>>53232351

>Not just buying a box of actual genestealer cultists.

Why?

>>53233491
I'm poor as hell, and got 2 boxes of DV cultists for really cheap
You're welcome to buy me a box if you want

>>53228286
I got tabled by Skitarii Rangers with Galvanic Rifles and Plasma Calivers. You know what i didnt see? An arc Rifle. Ive fought three Skitarii lists, lost every time. I never saw an Arc Rifle once

>>53233527

I guess two cultist boxes is half the price, but the actual Hybirds have a nice collection of spare bits you can use.

>>53228322
Anon, i...

>>53233621
Don't get me wrong, I plan on getting some eventually. My next purchase is gonna be a Goliath truck, and I definitely plan on slapping those 4 dudes on bases, then after that getting an actual Neophyte box

>>53229009
Wait. Did you buy some from a guy at Eclipse in rolla? Dude with curly hair?

>>53233587
Yeah, figured as much. Not sure what else to spend spare points on though.

>>53233940
Photo visors anywhere you can. The thirs skitarii guy had loads of trouble with my axe cultist because he kept ducking around cover and the GRs had a motherfucker of a time hitting him till he got a chance to eat one of them

I found some half painted wolf scouts.
Whats a good begginer build? I have 5 bodies on me right now, and loads of dwarf bits to customize.
Id like to go a bit melee

>>53234053
Did he not have an omnispex?

Yeah, visors and dots are probably the way to go. Still annoyed that I'm supposed to buy two extra squads just to get special weapons though.

>>53232449
>>53232694
Hmm.

How does this sound:
Scout Sergeant; Camo, Plasma pistol and Assault Sword

Scout; Camo, Bolt Pistol and Assault Sword

3 Scouts, Camo, Boltgun

Scout, camo, sniper, Toxic rounds.

6 guys instead, now has only 1 sniper, and 2 close combat guys.

Better?

>>53234617
Well, according to GW you are/"OH IT'S SO CONVENIENT AND THEY ARE NEW AND YOU GET A LOT OF STUFF TO WORK WITH".

You could also just buy the bits on e-bay or whatever.

I feel you though. It's definitely less of a hassle to just get what I was probably gonna get anyways for 40k and use some of the bits for this. Especially if I magnetize.

>>53226817
>Orks
>CZ

My negroid brethren. How do you like that one? I'm saving up for a P07, hoping to get the fancier models someday when I have a nicer job.

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Due to some extremely poor luck with key Kill Team members dying, I'm re-rerolling my warband and opting for GKs instead. Haven't seen these lads on the table so firsthand advice would be appreciated. Because of our houserules I potentially have an extra 100pts if I burn a promethium cache.

r8 m8s

Justicar
Knight
Knight w/warding stave
Gunner w/psycannon

Possibly relevant info: strongest warband in the campaign at the mo is probably the full sized kill team of 20 Orks, we also got two Skitarii teams that turtle to fuck, one has a lot of plasma, the other has the sniper. I don't care so much about winning, just don't want to get anally destroyed. Any tips?

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Went with the boys over toys rule.
Tell me what you think?

Inquisitor: power armour, boltgun, power sword, plasma syphon - 330 pts

Crusader: Power Sword, Storm Shield - 185 pts

Acolyte: Chainsword, Bolt Pistol - 115 ts

Acolyte: Storm Bolter - 120 pts

3x Initiates: Boltguns - 85 pts each

>>53234938
Avoid plasma like the devil

>>53234797
>not enough special weapons to cover the unit's basic options
>convenient
Thanks GW.

I expect to buy them anyway for 40k, but it's still shit. Plus I don't really want a load of unpainted minis lying around taunting me. And buying a couple of plastic guns off ebay sounds like a faff.

>>53234944
This makes me wonder about a similar issue, because lets say you equip guys with cheap weaponsa t first and then spend points later to upgrade their guns, however yoa re not reimbursed the cost of the cheap guns when you throw them away to get better guns, so is it better to just buy best-in-slots right off the bat and not waste points on cheap shit?

>>53235104
I...don't know?
Please don't ask me. I've not even played a proper game yet, just trying to get my dudes outfitted.

>>53230762
Are you that guy that was talking about taking skills on models in a new kill team?

>>53230083
Honestly if you're down and you put your model face down or whatever 9/10 times you're probably not in LoS to be shot at.

Are Tesla carbines better than Gauss blasters for immortals? They have sustain fire but none of the minus to save modifiers. Should I have at least one of each? Deathmarks are shit right?

They'll be up against a CSM team first so maybe the blaster would be nice?

>>53235414
CSM actually have enough armor for the rending to matter.

>>53231492

Looks a lot like an RPG to me, so might as well my dude.

>>53231386
>Play with whatever you find lying around
>Teabag knight
>Bottlecap champion
>it's fine because Tzeentch changes them to functional forms to move and shoot
Checkmate, GW

Why can the sisters of battle leader take a plasma pistol and not an inferno pistol?

Regarding a down model hiding, the rules are vague.
The hiding rules say that "the player simply declares that their fighter is hiding", and that "they can do this before, after, or even during that fighter's move." It explicitly says they can't hiding if they run or charge because "their sudden burst of speed does not give them time". Notice also that the counter is a "Hidden" counter and not a "Hiding" counter, since it's just a circumstance the fighter is in rather than an action being performed.

On the other hand, the Downed fighter can "crawl 2"... cannot do anything else". So is a CRAWL different from a MOVE? Does the play declaring that their fighter is hidden count as the fighter "doing" something? Who knows.

This is a symptom of a larger problem at GW, they write their rules using natural language, instead of codifying keywords. They don't use exhaustive state-based cases, instead they evoke some minds-eye theater to justify game concepts. Finally they break up important rules scattered throughout the book, making it easy to overlook special cases. So this leads players to assume they grasp the full rules, according to their interpretation.

>>53235788
Just use legos or pennies. The gameplay is the same.

>>53230615
I played a GSC player that said mining laser was hot garbage, he played a whole campaign with one and never got to use it since people would take it out before it could get into a good range.

What's the deal with bolt pistols? More expensive than autos and that range, I mean I'd be keen to buy them as sidearms in a resupply but I don't want that as primary.

>>53235844
Bolt pistol plus Hand-to-hand gets you +1A.

>>53228322
Of course there are

You just use them for terrain

>>53230762
No, Hiding is an "action", like Charging, Running etc. You only get one action per dude and that's stripped off them when pinned or downed.

>>53235815
No, this is not a problem at GW, it's a problem in your brain. Plenty of their rules are poorly or ambiguously written, and they should probably catch more of them. But natural language is perfectly adequate for the task.

>>53235104
Pretty much yeah. Consider what you can upgrade later and what would be wasted. A leader can make do with the default Assault Blade so you can upgrade to a power sword later; when you buy a plasma pistol for your Leader, his bolt pistol can be given to a trooper as a backup weapon if his main gun jams, or palmed off to a new recruit. Tossing a shotgun because you can afford another Sniper Rifle now is just wasteful.

>>53235927
Show me in the rules where hiding is an "action".

>>53235946
It causes ambiguity and is not explicit and clear, and causes players to rely on assumptions to make the game playable, this is categorically a problem of rules.

>>53230615
Mining laser are 24" range lascannon, it is fucking terrible.

Anyone got tips on painting the shadow war scenery? New to table top games. Think I've got down painting the models but never done a scenery.

>>53236077
Big primer, big wash, big drybrush, don't sweat the details.

>>53235815
This is not ambiguous, you are just a dipshit.

>During their movement phase a fighter who is down can crawl 2", but other than this the fighter cannot do anything else.

Hiding is something other than crawling 2"

>>53235844
It's a 24 inch range, I don't really see how this would be a problem. Especially if you're doing a mostly pistols list

>>53236008
Natural language is not always ambiguous. "Cannot do anything else" is not ambiguous.

The rules are there to facilitate fun, not to describe a well-defined simulation.

>>53236158
It's a heavy weapon.

>>53236152
This conflicts with the description of the hiding rules where hiding is something that the "player declares".

So arguably hiding is not something that the fighter "does".

Would it be wonderful if GW bothered to write rules that had clear bolded keywords that corresponded to game states? Then there wouldn't be the possibility of this interpretation.

>>53236182
So? Literally have it sit there and cover for your dudes if you think a high wound model is gonna come through a certain path. Use it to blow the fuck out of an objective. Get creative.

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>>53236077
>>53236101
I'm new as well but did basically what this guy said on my own, was going for it to be quick and not super detailed but I'm happy with how it looks.

Pic is lame, doesnt show the rust speckling I got on there. Since the pic I've drybrushed the sharper corners and it makes the details pop alot more. Took about 2-3hrs for the piece and only a few minutes to layer the spray primers over each other for the base.

>>53236203
Of course it's something the fighter does. Who the fuck else is doing it. The player causes it by merely declaring it - they don't have to roll or anything.

>>53236203
>This conflicts with the description of the hiding rules where hiding is something that the "player declares".
No it does not. The first sentence of the hiding rule is:

>A fighter can hide if they are behind a low wall or column.

Hiding is a thing that a fighter does. A fighter that is down is explicitly prohibited from doing anything other than crawling 2". A downed fighter cannot hide.

>>53236203
It also says "A fighter can hide," which suggests it is in fact something that the fighter does. Also, you can't go on overwatch the same turn you hide, meaning it is something the fighter is doing.

I agree that there are various ambiguous rules (the FAQ has done a lot to help with this so far), but this isn't one of them. The rules say pretty clearly that you can't do shit if you're down

>>53236261
Literally all of the language in the second paragraph of the hiding rule (the first paragraph of actual rule) refers to hiding ad something that the fighter does. It is very obviously the case that a fighter who is down can't hide any more than they can shoot or charge.

>>53226817
Drill your ba.. oh wait nvm.

>>53236008
I put it in quotation marks because it being an action is implied. There's no list of actions, that's just what people call them.

The rules stipulate that you can't do them by saying you can do nothing but a 2" move. That's pretty cut and dry, stop trying to interpret things as you see fit.

/swag/ just let these retards argue with their play group about their shitty interpretations, don't waste your finger strength

>>53235915
So? They're going to die like bitches in hand-to-hand anyway

>>53236158
Single shot heavy weapon. At least a seismic is Sustained 1/2, which is important for BS3.

>>53230564
My bet is on the guy playing against his cat.

>>53233689
Honestly cant remember. I got them years ago in a market by a beach in some country town In Australia

>>53236490
Hit modifiers guy and the new "downed fighters can hide" guy are probably the same person.

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How does this look for a starting campaign list?

I am thinking of getting more boys on the table first and getting more of the special weapons later.

In my group I will be against space marines, guard and inquisitors.

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Any of you anons used this site yet? Seems to be quite useful for organising kill teams throughout campaigns
shadow-war.zone

>>53237527
What site?

>>53237715
Its in the previous post my dude, shadow-war.zone

>>53237527
Saw the GSC didn't have the full roster of special weapons; only grenade launchers were listed.

Bummed me out, seems good otherwise

>>53234944
Someone please give me some feedback here? I honestly feel like I should kit my dudes out more.

>>53235812
Because "balance". There's weird stuff like that through every list.

Does the restriction on the amount of new recruits only apply during the initial kill team creation or throughout the entire campaign?

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Thought I'd show off the fruits of my labors. One more to weather, then sealing tomorrow.

>>53238746
It pretty much just means you can't do it on purpose.

>>53238749
Very nice, I like how it came out.

>>53238099
In my opinion you should be taking more advantage of plasma pistols on troops and initiates. But I constantly play tyranids so my perspective of the meta is skewed.

>>53239070
I could swap a few of the boltguns over. Converting the minis is a bitch though.

Does the Skitarii SWAG-bag (this: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skitarii-Ranger-Kill-Team) have Ranger and Vanguard heads or just the Ranger ones?

>>53239208

For refrence here's my starting list, little of everything but focusing on short range, which is where the faction shines. And converting is the best part of an inquisition warband mate!

++ Kill Team (Inquisition) [1000pts] ++

+ Leader +

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor [295pts]: Digital Weapons, Power armour
. Needle Pistol: Toxic rounds

+ Troopers +

Inquisitorial Acolyte [125pts]: +1 BS
. Sniper rifle: Toxic rounds

Inquisitorial Acolyte [115pts]: +1 BS, Plasma pistol

Inquisitorial Acolyte [120pts]: +1 BS, Storm Bolter

+ Specialists +

Crusader [185pts]: Power Maul, Storm Shield

Crusader [160pts]: Chainsword, Storm Shield

++ Total: [1000pts] ++

>>53239248
I belive they are just bundles of the normal boxes so yeah they'd have all the bits.

>>53239385

One of the pics on the site is literally Vanguards. Derp, sorry about that!

>>53237527
Is this supposed to make teams easy to share?
http://shadow-war.zone/battle-killteam/202/julius-s-fabulous-adventure

>forget to add marks to the last few because it doesn't copy marks for some reason
>not allowed to correct it
reeeEEE

>>53238746
Does it say only during kill team creation? No, it's there to stop naked recruit spam.

>>53239723
But the rules say models have to be WYSIWYG, unless you've modelled th to have no weapons it would be illegal to field them as such.

>>53240156
You're an idiot lmfao

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Friendly reminder to farm shitty teams like tau for skills and advances before taking on real teams.

>tfw no Militarum Tempestus team

I just want my tacti-cool dudes to not be brought down by unwashed guardsmen

>>53240947
How would they be different from carapace hotshot guard? Not that I'm saying specific rules for MT wouldn't be cool but you can get pretty close gear wise with IG.

I got out of 40k a while ago but my group has been getting into SW. Thoughts on this list?
— Astra Militarum — 1000 points
Veteran Sergeant —
Special Weapons Operative — Plasma gun (80), Red-dot laser sight (20)
Special Weapons Operative — Sniper rifle (40), Toxic rounds (20), Telescopic sight (20)
Special Weapons Operative — Heavy flamer (100), Camo gear (5)
Veteran Guardsman — Shotgun (20)
Veteran Guardsman — Shotgun (20)
Guardsman — Lasgun (25)
Guardsman — Lasgun (25)
Guardsman — Lasgun (25)

I mostly went with a mix of weapons because all I have right now is a box of troops and a command squad box. I was reading that 3 plasma guns is the way to go but I don't really want to track down the models for them. I have a flamer mostly cus i think its cool. Am I gonna get smashed?

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Just finished my Killteam, I'll probably do some detail work later, and I'm going to rebase the marines on some decent bases, and probably take their bases to rebase the cultists on.

>>53239248
Pretty sure the bundles don't save you any money. And make you spend most of it on special operatives.

Plus at least in the case of Skitarii, you still won't have all the guns (plasma calivers) you want.

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>>53225637
I was thinking about running a Inquisition killed team and I was wanting some advice on building a list, here's what I have so far.


**++ Kill Team (Inquisition) [1000pts] ++**


**+ Leader +**


**Ordo Xenos Inquisitor [400pts]:** Boltgun, Camo gear, Carapace armour, Digital Weapons, Frag grenades, Power sword, Storm Shield


**+ Troopers +**


**Inquisitorial Acolyte [130pts]:** +1 BS, Boltgun, Camo gear, Frag grenades


**Inquisitorial Acolyte [130pts]:** +1 BS, Boltgun, Camo gear, Frag grenades


**Inquisitorial Acolyte [130pts]:** +1 BS, Boltgun, Camo gear, Frag grenades


**Inquisitorial Acolyte [105pts]:** +1 BS, Boltgun, Camo gear


**Inquisitorial Acolyte [105pts]:** +1 BS, Boltgun, Camo gear


**++ Total: [1000pts] ++**

>>53242620
Is that a naked Sergeant?

>>53242666
Yeah. Rearm After first game but with the special rule for the faction hes just there to direct the fire.I wasnt sure what to give him.

Getting my feet wet after a 20 yr absence. Currently cleaning and painting Tzeentch and have roughly 40 Pinks, 20 Blues and little flame guys. I also have several Flamers and 2 flaming chariots, plus some dozen screamers, old and new. I have several old Tzeentch sorcerers and heroes, a herald and two spawn.

Can I get a good 1000 point army out of this under the new rules? If so, ideas?

>>53243108
Daemons don't have rules yet

>>53243108
I think you're in the wrong thread. You probably want /40kg/. But they will just tell you to wait a few weeks for the new edition to appear.

>>53242659
Take power armor on your inquisitor dude, that -1 intitive from carapace is a fucker.

>>53242659
You need high Str, boltguns alone can't deal with everything. Also don't spend so much on your Inquisitor, he's still a single wound model.

>>53237012
Yeah they don't seem as aggressively stupid as the guy with the cat.

>>53243428
Three wounds

>>53243433
It is quite amazing how stupid some people are. Even when they are looking at the rules that quite clearly state what they can and cant do, they'll gladly go through a 50 post chain, just to keep on insisting that GW haven't made it *enirely* clear, even if literally nobody else agrees.

Not sure if it is some kind of refusal to admit they were wrong.

>>53242659
>>53239333

Honestly, I think the best starting =I= Kill team is something like this:

Inquisitor with Storm Shield and Toxin Needler (since it's both a good melee weapon and a decent ranged one, auto-wound is huge).

1x Toxic Sniper Acolyte
3x Stormbolter Acolytes
2x Bolt Pistol Acolytes

And that's it. Stormbolters are so much more powerful than most other weapons aside from the comparable plasma pistols. The sniper can be another storm bolter or plasma guy if you want. But the bolt pistols are placeholders for close range meatshields.

After the first game, get a fully kitted Stormshield+Sword+Gun Crusader to act as team pointman.

>>53243433
I think hitfag and hidefag are trying to make a point about GW's way of writing rules rather than actually gain any advantage. And they aren't entirely wrong as they can be poorly worded and unclear. It's just not that big a deal. They're just autists.

Catfag is taking a rule that's explicitly intended to extend the emotional attachment to Your Guys and using it as a calculated way to win games. He's an cunt.

>>53242620
Plasma guns are mostly good on paper. If you listen to the players rather than the number crunchers, toxic sniper, heavy flamer and krak gr. Launcher does most of the work. Plasma gunners become targets immediately.

>>53243701
Except that hitfag downright try to be a retard (also had severe dyslexia) when GW write an example how all the hit mod suppose to work. Even to the point that Hitfag take a fucking shot of cocaine and declare that - hit modified actually make target EASIER to hit.

>>53242649
Very nice.

>>53242727
A lasgun? A little versatility in situations where he isn't shouting orders.

>>53242649

Pretty cool anon, digging the purple. Emperor's children?

>>53243801
Catfag tho. He's either incredibly stupid, or as anon just said, a cunt.

>>53242649
Drill out your barrels tho.

>>53243801
He's trying to be a rules lawyer and failing because he isn't very good at it. Same with hidefag claiming you can't call something an action because it's not a precisely defined term.

They're autists because they think rules need to be precisely written with all terms defined like a mathematical proof. They can't understand why that isn't necessary, so they point out places where it's not true as examples of poor writing.

>>53243789
Being, a player, plasma is GOAT. My leader was MVP with his plasma pistol last game. With the presence of shit like Nids an d Necrons you just can't really not have something high Strength.

>>53243701
>And they aren't entirely wrong
Yes they are.
>as they can be poorly worded and unclear.
These aren't. These are crystal clear, no room for interpretation. When a rule literally says "you can crawl AND NOTHING ELSE" then you never have room to argue that you can, in fact, still hide.
>It's just not that big a deal. They're just autists.
I think the words you are looking for are "dyslexic retard".

>>53243971
>>53244097

look we get that they're wrong you don't need to keep harping on it.
you're not contributing anything to the thread.

So as I found out that I literally dont have any models that match the kill team models used, I plan on starting an entirely new army. No Space Marines, I am not getting scouts, as they'll never be part of my army.

What should I go for? What is fun and interesting with actual options? Preferably the ability to be good in both CC and shooting.

Nids seems to have a lot going for them. Grey Knights look like a viable choice, but I don't particularly like Grey Knights as a faction.

I also hope to pick something that doesn't require too many packs - preferably, 1 pack would be best if possible, 2 is acceptable.

Any good recommendations?

>>53244071
Krak tho. And plasma pistol is a different business since it doesn't take up a special weapons operative slot. We were talking about plasma guns however.

I'm gonna play against my arch-nemesis 40k player. You know, the kind of guy from who you can expect really shabby rules, and he loves to use lists known for having a 99% win-rate on websites.
So yeah, I'm looking for heavy advices on my own list :

Tyranid Alpha
2x Pair of scything talons
Acid boold, Extended chitin carapace, Flesh hooks

Tyranid Gun-Beast
2x Pair of scything talons (yup)
Extended chitin carapace, Flesh hooks

Tyranid Gun-beast
Venom cannon & scything talons
Extended chitin carapace, Flesh hooks

I expect him to try to counter my list as soon as he will see it (with Astra / Inq). So I plan to take the most advances of my first mission against him, probably with an other Venom Cannon before adding more bodies.

>>53244110
>not contributing anything to the thread
Since you acknowledge that they are in fact wrong anon clearly contributes to raising awareness of the fact.

>>53244184
Do you own a lot of bits? If so you can easily get away with a single squad box purchase. If not, or you want to get into a faction that you don't have a lot of bits for, then two boxes will take you a long way. For example with cadian AM you'll go a long way with a box of shocktroopers and maybe a box of command, or a few of the old metal cadians if you aren't averse to that.

>>53244184
Nids, because nids. A box of three will get you started and be good at shooting and great at melee.

Inquisition get storm shields and inquisitors and plasma pistols everywhere

Orks have boys, and nothing but boys, and therefore can be good at shooting through weight of dice and excellent at melee

>>53244245
>Krak tho
Expensive for what they are and can't replicate a plasma gun's Sustained. Yeah, I can vouch for the plasma gun as well, that chance at multiple shots makes it a beast.

>>53244184
To be honest, if you have marines, just go with Grey Knights.

They are loads of fun, has a lot of options, and can get away with a very simple setup (even just plain guys with psybolts are more than enough in most cases)

Try get the normal power armour, so your standard dudes should fit. Paint a few of them grey if you want to, to make them look closer to grey knights if that's an issue.

>>53244426
Still it becomes a target. So while plasma is good in itself, your opponent, if they have any sort of tactical thinking ability, will try to take it out as soon as possible.

>>53244426
Expensive? Both cost a 100 pts (with sight for the plasma).

>>53244643
That's why my plasma is in the center of my team, try getting through an outer layer of cultists and an inner of marines first.

>>53244648
>(with sight for the plasma)
Then the plasma far outperforms the krak launcher.

>>53244643
No more than any other effective special weapon, i've found. Plus,if you're guard/CSM you have meatshields aplenty to take the shots

>>53244680
While you'll be rolling to see if you hit your own units you mean?

Kraks are still d3 wounds. They're comparable. I definitely wouldn't say plasma outperforms krak launcher.

>>53244734

more shots is better than more wounds, plus you OOA on a 5+ and can pin nids and harlies

>>53244734
It's a 1/36 chance to hit your own unit, it's pretty much impossible. Plus, you can space them out enough that only one or two shots in the game are at risk of that.

And yeah, Sustained outperforms single shot any day.

>>53244314
Only marine bits. Not sure if that bus good enough. I play Red Scorpions normally, so I have a ton of marine and terminator parts and bits, but nothing that really helps me in kill team.

>>53244384
Might go for the Nids then. Isn't 3 models kind of a high risk though? Seems awfully dangerous since you'll be testing for Bottle at the first casualty.

>>53244734
Take a plasma gun and a melta gun/heavy flamer.

Melta does everything the krak made launcher does at less rang bute without any of it's downsides.
Heavy flamer for overwatch, it's ability to toast harlies and d3 wounds.

>>53244752
>more shots is better than more wounds
Depends on your bs of course

>>53244794
I still disagree that plasma guns are the be all end all special weapon.

>>53245186
See, you have a sound view of this. Some people argue that you automatically win everything if you field all plasma on your specialists, while the truth is that while sustained fire high impact is nice, versatility is nicer.

>>53245162
>Seems awfully dangerous
True and that's a risk with all elite factions.

>>53245208
I never argued such a thing, I was just countering claims that plasma is useless and krak is always better.

>>53244184
For cheapest you've got GSC (One Neophyte box and one Genestealer box will probably do you fine, can still expand options with another Neophyte box later) or Dark Eldar since the Wych box is dirt cheap.

For most fun, Chaos are interesting and competitive or yeah, Nids are pretty damn strong.

>>53245230
I just don't value kraks ability to do multiple wounds at long range, I'd rather have the shorter range melta.
High impact
Causes more wounds
And... I'm pretty sure you can put a red dot on it?

Of course, you can take krak and frag on the launcher and it becomes a great jack of all trades.

>>53245208
High impact
Decent range
Good strength
Good ap
Multiple shots
Fairly cheap

Plasma guns have a lot going for them.
They're a great all rounder that serves well against any opponent.

>>53245268
I never said plasma is useless though (nobody did). I said other special weapons can be equally useful.

>>53245382
>pretty sure you can put a red dot on it?
On melta?

>>53245405
Well in the end it obviously comes down to your local meta.

>>53244488
How good are Grey Knights though? I have considered just using that because of the standard power armour, and because Storm Bolters aren't exactly bad as a base. They also seem to have a lot of fun powers, and a lot more fun options than regular marine scouts in general.

It seems a bit risky though. 4 models should be the goal, something like:
Justicar with psybolts
3 grey knights with psybolts
Sprinkle with a mix of grenades to taste.

Lots of ability to harm most things in the game. Their 3+ armour makes them fairly durable, but I still feel like a plasma gun will just make you bottle on the first turn most of the time.

I am almost tempted to say; bring a leader and 4 grey knights. That's points. It gives you a solid setup for the first game, and after that, you can just go nuts with psybolt ammo and whatever you want for upgrades. Purely S4 and -1 armour will hurt, but at least sustained fire can help in terms of dice rolled.

>>53245268
So a strawman then? Since nobody made any such claims.

>>53245536
They must be armed with additional weapons tho

>>53245362
>Genestealer
GSC might be a fun option... I have genestealers from the old Space Hulk game, I assume those should do just fine.

The models look kind of... derp. Might just be me, they just have some really dumb looking faces.

>>53245551
That they do... my mistake then. So no 5 man gang from the start. Feels bad.

Maybe just throw warding staves everywhere for a cheap "fuck you" to anyone trying to engage in close combat? Might help keep enemies from engaging, which lets your storm Bolter do more work.

>>53245459
>>53245540
See >>53243789
Claims all other specials to be better than plasma.

>>53229946

Just realised the points are wrong.

I'd had a few beers, that's my excuse.

>>53244251
Should I throw away all the juicy Flesh hooks and the Acid blood for putting some weapons on the Alpha and the unarmed Gun-beast ?

If so, can we say that the Deathspitter is arguably weaker than the cheaper Devourer ?

>>53245632
>>53244251
The alpha is middling to alright, i would take adrenal glands long before taking acidblood though. Acidblood involves fighting something dangerous, and thats not the way to win-you take out the weaker elements of an opposing force and wait for the enemies danger-dudes to bottle out. Adrenal glands are excellent for getting from point A to point B, and nom-nom-nomming the dudes not covered by a heavy weapon ASAP.

Unless your meta is exclusively khornate CSM/GK/Harlies, the talons on your alpha will last you until you have four other kitted dudes, and five nids is insanely more threatening than three with a big penis-gun.

The powergamer choice for nids at campaign start is to run with an Alpha, a Gunbeast and two spawn, all with talons, then immediately buy a venom cannon and then a third warrior ASAP

>>53245536
>plasma gun
Autocannons, anon, autocannons. Had a grey knight player nearly flip the table because I pinned two Grey Knights and put another straight out of action with a single salvo.

He actually ended up calming down and having a fun game, mostly thanks to the +1ld pregame effect meant he kept passing Bottle tests.

Thinking of starting off my Sister crew with a heavy flamer for fluff reasons but now that I'm putting the list together, she's coming in at 200pts just for her and the gun alone, when I could squeeze in another 2 sisters, and the flamer is not the longest range weapon.

Is it worth the risk guys? Have you had good experiences with the weapon?

>>53245761
Close-range weapons like flamers are extremely risky because you open yourself to assault. You can guard corners very well though, so there's that.

>>53245720
Yeah that too.

I mean, how do you properly do this?

4 guys in 2 and 2 teams seems like the most sensible thing, but I can't help but feel you'll be blown off the table before you can even blink. Are they really tough enough to stand up against most of the other armies?

Compared to Nids, they really dont feel that elite to me. Or am I wrong here?

>>53244251
Good luck and hopefully he doesn't bring Krak Grenades to bear against you. That's the only thing that really ruins my bug's lives.

>>53245761
The way a local dude got around the early-game restrictions with his sisters was taking a grenadier novice and a bolter specialist, then giving the novice the bolter when the specialist sister upgraded to a heavy weapon. Now he has a full squad of bolter bitches and nothing can close with him without being shot off the board or flamed to shithouse by the heavy flamer/combiflamer. I think his initial team was two troopers, two grenade novices, two specialists and a leader

>>53245570
I understand if you read it that way. I don't though. The discussions in the past (having read through every swag thread here since release) shift between a few people recommending new players to just get plasma all over as the solution to everything and other people (who clearly have actually played the game) shrugging and saying they use a variety of special weapons. I read that comment as making a point against the former. The comment doesn't say plasma is useless. It says other weapons are better. I read that as "a variety of weapons without plasma are better than just plasma" and I agree with that.

>>53245771
True, I reckon that might work out well then. The board we play on is basically like a hive city slum with lots of alleyways and corners so that might work well.
>>53245798
I'd do that but Sister Specialists can't hire Bolters, only bolt pistols.

>>53245777
Hug cover like crazy, block LOS wherever possible. Stick together if you can, 2-man teams can be pinned pretty easily (at which point neither can help the other get up), a group of 3-4 close to each other less so, unless you way fuck up and they get a good grenade throw off.

Grey Knights are monsters in close combat. Beware of 4-dice Chaos Champions and 3x Parry Tyranid Warriors, but anything else you can win a combat against and land even one hit is pretty much guaranteed to go down thanks to Hammerhand, at which point you slit their throat since 90% of close combat is 1v1 duels. Your advantage is that Storm Bolters are pretty fucking good and you can reliably Pin enemy models and keep the fire off you while you close range. Don't get bogged down in firefights while opponents bring their High Impact weapons and fancy sniper toys to bear.

In small teams your absolute priority is trying to keep each other in support range so you can help pinned fighters get up at the start of your turn since you need ALL your men in action. Obviously it doesn't work out 100% of the time but most players don't think about it very much and end up with chunks of their team doing nothing for turns at a time.

>>53245816
>[every other special weapon] does most of the work

How is that not saying that plasma is useless? If every other weapon apparently does that majority of the work, why should I take plasma at all?

Also you say that people have been recommending plasma a lot, but from what I've seen most of those recommendations have been for Chaos, who don't have any great alternatives such as a krak launcher.

>>53245949
I have heard the plasma recommendations mainly for guard. Oh well.

The comment brings up a few specific examples. It doesn't say "all other special weapons". That's why I assume it's used as an example. I might be wrong, but I take that to mean "any combination of different special weapons can do the job better than just fielding plasma across the board".

>>53245949
>>53246185
Same guy here. In the end we're just arguing pointless stuff here, since we obviously agree.

About to get into this after a couple of mordheim campaigns with my m8, we start with skirmish as a way to ease him into trying out bigger battles and we can't decide between shadow wars and kill team. What do you guys suggest is better after trying them out?

One thing that strongly motivates me to go kill team is being able to choose between a greater variety of models (why do craftworlds eldar have the most boring choices?) but there's enough choice in shadow wars to start out anyway.

He's probably going to go GK with some models he had around so I was thinking that it would be fitting to pick chaos, any suggestions for us both?

Bought the game not too long ago, and I'm planning on starting a Tyranid Warrior kill team (I play 'nids in regular 40K). Any tips/advice for someone starting out? Shooty or choppy? A few highly elite units or more less powerful ones?

>>53245917
Good advice, thanks.

I was thinking of sticking warding staves om Everything, because it makes them borderline impossible to kill in close combat. Is it really better to go for the more expensive options and hope for a few wins? It just seems terribly risky, even with hammerhand. Ws4 isn't really that impressive.

>>53246338
>A few highly elite units or more less powerful ones?
By which you mean, 4 bugs or 3 but with a ranged weapon?
I'd go with 3 with the barbed strangler, with 20 orks (possible as a starting team) against you the large blast will work overtime.

>>53245697
Thanks for your wisdom Anon
>take adrenal glands long before taking acidblood
I guess you're right
>The powergamer choice for nids at campaign start is to run with an Alpha, a Gunbeast and two spawn, all with talons, then immediately buy a venom cannon and then a third warrior ASAP
My concern with two Gun-beast at the start is that it seems really hard to recruit an other one over a campaign (cost over 200). For the big penis-gun over a New-spawn, I thought superior range and movement gave me a lot of pressure on unwary players. Also, rushing 2 Gun-beast with no toys to play with was a bit weird.
Also, I gave a lot of Biomorphs for the sake of wysiwyg. I want to have fun with greenstuff, sculpting extended carapace and the like. Hard to paint an acid-blood over an already painted miniature...
But maybe I don't put enough bodies. Not sure it's more safe to have one more buddy. If I rush only for close combat, my opponent would just have to turtle and prepare the sauce for xenoburgers.

Are deathspitter worth anything compare to the cheap Devourer ?

>>53246522
Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm planning on magnetizing the Warriors I build for this system, incidentally, as I'm planning on heavily individualizing each Warrior and it'll make more sense to have a few models with swappable arms than loads of models representing all the different options. I generally prefer permanent assembly but oh well. In any event I might try running different lists to see what works.

>>53244251
Drop flesh hooks and replace with adrenal glands, try and fuck around with your biomorph layout to try and make room to buy a Deathspitter for your alpha.

First game put an advance on your alpha to try and get scavenger, that way you can buy warriors and don't have to dick around with new-spawn.

>>53246602
How would you magnetize all the shit up, for it looks right ? What tools do you use to achieve such a cool thing ?
Everyone brags about magnetizing things, and it works for, say a tank-turret. But for a miniature, I never seen something feeling right.

>>53246656
It's trivial to magnetize tyranid warriors. They're big with premade arm holes. You just drill a hole in the bottom of the arm hole and glue a magnet in there.

So, Grey Knights.

How does this look?
Justicar w/ falchions
2 grey knights with falchions
Grey knight Gunner with incinerator and falchions

5 points leftover, but whatever.

Gives me a (comparably) good amount of bodies, who can do quite well in both shooting and CC.

Would Warding staves be better? Not sure if I can use those points for anything worthwhile, but it would be trollworthy against melee armies.

I feel like I need a melee weapon on my incinerator guy, because the ammo roll after every shot will almost for sure make him lose his gun during the average game, and I want him to continue to contribute at least a bit.

>>53246711
Close combat is a trap.

>>53246739
Yeah, but you are literally forced to take HtH weapons.

>>53246785
How awful.

The only kill teams GK can credibly fight in close combat are already so weak there that close combat weapons are basically irrelevant.

>>53246336
I prefer SWA just for the further depth of the combat system to be honest.

>>53246916
What if we tried to use SWA rules and kill team lists? Not sure it would work since, like mordheim, the smaller scale of SWA means that many cheapish stuff in 40k gets a much higher price as it gets more relevant.

>>53229041
>Tau are better off without any guns
What? Can anyone explain this to me?

>>53246487
Actually, I'm an idiot. GK's don't need to stay close to each other because they have ATSKNF which allows them to try and negate Pinning at the start of the turn regardless of whether there's friendlies within 2".

Pretty much every other standard KT member has WS4 or worse and unless they're specifically built for close combat they're only going to have one Attack Dice which you can Parry if they beat you. Your advantage is that the Justicar has two Attacks and if he wins the combat by even one hit it's really going to hurt your opponent if you have the Nemesis Sword and Hammerhand, while you're likely to tank anything that they slip through. Grey Knights should run twin Falchions for the extra Attack and Parry spam to ensure your opponent rolls dogshit and you win combat, again utilizing Hammerhand for multiple re-rollable wounds. Anything you're worried about beating you in combat, just hose down with Storm Bolters to either kill or stunlock it. If it has friends nearby hurl Frag Grenades and pin the lot of them.

>tl;dr brutalize shooty and light CC infantry with Parries and far greater damage potential in close combat
>kill/stunlock heavy CC specialists with shooting

File: MagnetChamp.jpg (297KB, 1650x700px) Image search: [Google]

297KB, 1650x700px

>>53246602
>>53246656
>>53246691
Magnets are fun! There's even a tiny 2x1mm magnet pair in the head and neck so I can repose his head. Marine models are EZ mode for magnetizing though.

>>53245470
Nope.

>>53246895
Well... parries make them more difficult to take down, but the warding staff makes them a total bitch to kill. 3+ invul makes it very unlikely to take them down in close combat for more foes, and makes a lot of the expensive armour piercing options irrelevant.

We already finished our first mini tournament (first to 15 caches won), and my grey knights exclusively had warding staves, which made everybody, even the melee heavy Nid, completely ignore armour modifying weapons beside the cheaper -1/2 weapons.

>>53246739
>>53246785
>>53246895
They can hold their own against anything up to pistol+sword Chaos Marines through a mixture of superior toughness and armour save and D3 Wounds per hit via Hammerhand. Anything better you should be gunning down with Storm Bolters.

That's the whole advantage of Grey Knights, every one of them is on the upper end of CC power while simultaneously hauling around a bolter with sustained fire for anything they don't feel like fist fighting.

>>53246988
Quite impressive, really !
Must say, I love the chain, really chaos-ish.
I'm about to give it my first try this week. What kind of magnet would you use for a Tyranid Warrior ?

>>53247069
Wait, have you run the math for a fucking swarm of 3-4 orks on each knight too?
There's a skill that would let them ignore being dogpiled on, but until they roll it... well, a swarm of orcs against a knight holding the bridge is a classic image, isn't it?
And the knight falls.

>>53235812
Works the same against infantry just counts as dude.

>>53226817
Why are there no 40/k/ threads?

>>53247047
A melee nid player should only ever be using scything talons regardless. They're both the cheapest and the best option for a bug with no gun. That has nothing to do with warding staves.

>>53247110
Wait, how did a swarm of boyz get past an incinerator and a hail of sustained fire bolters? And 1 game in, they'll likely all have +1 S on said sustained fire guns. S5 -2 Armour will tear through Ork Boyz no problem.

>>53236203
>This conflicts with the description of the hiding rules where hiding is something that the "player declares".
>So arguably hiding is not something that the fighter "does".
Bruh.

>>53246938
Honestly just stick with the SWA lists, as weird as they are they seem to have some attempt at balancing to them.

>>53247142
Oh. Well his explicit reason was "No reason to go higher, everything has bullshit invul saves anyway.".

The harlies won the tournament. I got a close second though, would have won if I rolled better on my last win.

>>53247171
Don't.
Fucking.
Start.

I am kinda curious: do people try to hyper specialize their guys, or do you prefer to make them more balanced?

Like, all skills in 1 group, or split thrm out over several?

>>53247174
I guess I'll try all the cool eldar stuff in kill team then, now I'm off to chaos.

>>53247110
>anything better you should be gunning down with Storm Bolters
So instead of charging in like a retard, in that situation you should be opening fire on the Boys and almost certainly downing at least one of them and probably pinning another from just a single Storm Bolter. Or hurling a Frag Grenade and pinning the lot of them.

I mean for fuck's sake if you've gotten within the paltry 4" range an Ork can make a blind charge from without ANY opportunities for you to shoot at them you're a fucking idiot.

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>inb4 bottle tests

I want to know if anyone's tried loading up their dudes while buying them rather than just putting bodies on the field and equipping them later.

This is my test list for just that. The regular bolter boy is 200 points so I can always buy one with a cache. If I get more points in a mission for some reason I plan on buying a second gunner.

>>53247337
>I mean for fuck's sake if you've gotten within the paltry 4" range an Ork can make a blind charge from without ANY opportunities for you to shoot at them you're a fucking idiot.
+1

In the small tournament where I played Grey Knights, the Ork player was the least of my worries. I only had to more around a bit, or focus one side if he tried a pincher move, and it was fairly easy.

Okay not entirely true, Tau was so free he quit the tournament after losing 7 games in a row, with no chance of even getting close to a victory. But Tau has their own tier, placed far below the lowest tier, so they cant really be compared.

>>53247548


wait, a swag tournament? Like 1000pt battle only?

>>53247548
What make Tau so bad? Is it just the ammo rolls?

>>53247201
Bit of both. My Trooper CSM just get boltguns and grenades for general purpose shooting support but Muscle skills can catch players by surprise looking for an easy CC kill.

Surprisingly I don't roll Shooting skills for my Autocannon Gunner because fully half of them are useless to him. He's a fucking great candidate for Guerilla skills, literally all of them are good.

Meanwhile my Champion is built for mauling shit in CC and that's where all his skills go.

>>53247548
What's wrong with tau? I thought they'd be good since they're all about shooting in a game where
>melee is a trap

>>53247635

Probably something to do with their shooting not being all that good thanks to BS3 and short range

>>53247548
>>53247610
I'm starting to think it's the Tau players themselves are legitimately shit at the game as well as their poor strengths.

>lines 3 pathfinders up on a rooftop ledge and guffaws about having overwatch on a promethium cache
>I come at an angle outside their overwatch cone and hurl a frag grenade
>all three fail their initiative tests and fall off the rooftop
>two are wounded from the fall and the third is pinned with nobody around to help him
>Taufag transmutates into a pillar of salt

>>53246954
their basic weapons are better than their special weapons for the price with bs3

>>53247542
No cultist meatshields? I don't dig it.

>>53247824
I have none painted

>>53247719
That's sad, rail rifles look cool.

So there's no point in taking specialists in a Tau squad?

Dang, I just noticed they don't even have access to red dot and telescopic sights. I thought they were supposed to be a high tech faction? I mean, even Orks have red dot sights. What the hell.

>>53247601
Just a campaign of sorts. Considering the quick games, it took a week to get like 15 games each.

>>53247610
Bad... everything.

Like, I can't explain it, but shit Toughness, laughable armour, and terrible guns. Yeah pulse is alright, same as GK psybolters without sustained fire, and their special weapons... Yeah those are strong contenders for worst weapons in the game.

And calling them a shooting army is a joke, they are terrible at shooting, and their special rule is a trap. If they bunch up to overwatch, you mow them down with sustained fire weapons or grenades.

>>53247711
He actually played really good. He is normally a guard player, with a love for the Pathfinder models. But since he is about as good as orks at shooting, but with generally worse and more unreliable guns, it just didn't work out for him.

>>53247883
>Dang, I just noticed they don't even have access to red dot and telescopic sights. I thought they were supposed to be a high tech faction? I mean, even Orks have red dot sights. What the hell.
SWA Tau are not 40k Tau.

Here, they have the worst tech, and most unreliable weapons in the game.

>>53247635
BS3, short range, no gunsights. They're borderline unplayable.

>>53247907
>>53247889
Well crap, I was considering starting a Tau squad after painting my IG because I like the minis, but it looks like I would be in for a bad time.
Are drones any useful at least? Is there a way not to get totally annihilated when playing Taus?

Oh, and no camo either. Woohoo.

>>53247991
What if you houseruled to give them camo and sights? That's stuff they use.

>>53248321
They'd probably be okay.

>>53248078
I am of the opinion that Tau aren't as bad as some people claim. They're just hard mode to play. They have a pretty strong basic weapon, and combined with abilities, if used right, can be powerful. I lean more towards most Tau players simply not capable of playing them right.

>>53248078
Drones are slightly better. T4 4+ is fairly durable, but BS2 is... not good. Burst cannons are a lot better though, but don't get your hopes up.

>>53248358
Yeah, hard mode, but with no reward for being good at them.

Their best gun is a psybolt Bolter, which is terrible on BS3. As a Grey Knight player I easily outshoot them with storm Bolters alone, I am significantly more durable, and will kill them easily in close combat, even more so than we used to. Add on in the gunner with actual good guns, and the Tau are fighting an uphill battle.

Strength in numbers help, but only very slightly- 10 guys allow for 10 bs3 shots. I have 4 Bolters guy who spit out 4d3 shots. That is an average of 8. Same gun profile, but I am far and away more durable than them.

And I have an incinerator.

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Finished one of the Acolytes for my Inquisition warband. Fluffing this one as my Inquisitor's interrogator.

>>53248850
needs shading

Played the first game of our store's campaign last night.

My orks (The Green Machine) against a dude's CSM (Back in Black).
He won the mission roll-off and chose the Raid. I rolled a fucking 1 on my deployment, so I stuck my Spanner up on a staircase with a view of the whole field to act as a sniper and my nob in the terrain maze near the loot token in case he rolled the objective for it.

He deploys two of his dudes (his MoT leader and MoN flamer specialist) on buildings to support his two Khornate marines, who deploy in the maze to try and get my nob.

First turn I nail his leader with my Ork Sniper, land 5 hits and 4 WOUNDS. He saves them all and passes every fucking I test to fall off the ledge. He is pinned (at least), so there's that. I move my nob into cover and wait for the Khornate marines to pop into charge range.
His turn, he just moves dudes through the maze and stands his leader back up. Around this time he realises his specialist is kind of stuck on the building because there's no ladder on the terrain and he doesn't want to take an I test to get down.
My turn I roll up 3 reinforcements and roll up two shoota boyz and a slugga kid behind his leader and specialist. My nob charges the first of the 'zerkers. My sniper pins his leader (again), but he saves the wound (again) and passes the I test (again). This is a running theme. My new shootas have slightly more luck as the proceed to pin the specialist and the guy fails his I test, falling to the ground. Unfortunately, the smelly fart saves the wound, so he's just pinned on the ground right next to my boyz. My nob then proceeds to roll 2 1's and a fucking 3 on his combat, and gets murdered in the first turn.
His turn begins. At this point I learn that he had the "kill my leader in combat" objective and he proceeds to try to exfil. His first zerker is close enough to move off the edge immediately, but his second zerker can't quite make it. He stands his specialist and leader back up.

>>53248889
But other than that, it's okay?

>>53248909
yeah just stick on a few washes then layer it will be perfect

>>53248909
>is my unbased miniature with no shading or highlights of any kind okay?
Two steps above unpainted plastic.

>>53248926
Thanks, I'll try my best. Painting's always been a bit of a chore.

>>53248956
>tfw you never base stuff

Painting them green or brown is the best I do, too much stuff in the backlog

>>53248965
Please proceed to the temple of Duncan for re-education.

https://youtu.be/zQkMA1NLFMg?list=PLEaPE4sLDA7ucJ0dkiVZSW6ghZUNGFHIW

>>53249004
Jesus christ, how horrifying. Why bother even painting them if you won't finish the job with even some simple basing?

>>53248892
My turn, I roll another 3 dudes in. This time I bring in a shoota boy, a double choppa boy, and a one of my shank yoofs. I block off the zerker's escape route as I bring them in. My sniper takes another shot at the leader, and the same shit happens, only this time I fail my ammo roll and scream at the heavens. I pump some shots into the nurglite guy with one of my shootas, and once more FAIL the ammo check and fail to wound. The other guy does similarly, but doesn't ammo roll. At this time, I realize that I can't charge him and smack my forehead. I do pump some shots into the zerker, which all miss, and fire a single slugga shot at the leader, which fails to wound, but DOES make him fail his I test and fall off the building. He passes his armor save, though, so I've still got to remove him from play the fun way.
His turn rolls around. He charges my yoofs with his zerker and promptly gets murdered by a shank boy, but not before knocking out my double choppa boy. His dudes stand up again.
My turn. The last of my boyz roll in, but I make a tactical blunder. I rolled them up next to the specialist instead of cutting off his leader's retreat. I DO succeed in killing the specialist (although not before we had to figure out how flamer overwatch works in this game, since the Wall of Death rule is never mentioned in the book; we figured he automatically hits and pins one of my guys using the flamers profile to resolve the wound, but he could only choose one of the two guys charging him to do that to).
Now his turn rolls around and he charges my slugga boy, nixes him in combat, and consolidates off the board.

>>53249004
You're subhuman and will be first against the wall come the revolution.

>>53249004
>they make textured paint you can just paint the fucking base with to base the miniature
>basing is too hard
You're disgusting.

So Errata says Tau can have 13 dudes with 10 guys and 3 drones. Their Burst Cannon drone also has 2 wounds now. Will this make them better than bottom of the garbage tier?

>>53249060
So, the game ends with his win.
Sort of.
He rolls only 1 cache on the d3, and we start rolling up wounds under the benevolent eye of the store owner.
He rolls up a full recovery on his zerker, and a captured result on his specialist. He groans.
I roll up 2 full recoveries on my nob and yoof, and a head wound (frenzy) result on my choppa boy. After looking up what frenzy did, I start cackling about the flat upgrade my boy just got.

I can't remember what he did for re-arm, but I know he rolled Medic onto his leader.

For rearm I got 'eavy armor for my nob, gave my other two yoofs shootas, and one of my boyz stikkbombs. For my advance I rolled a skill on my Spanner (named Tazerface, btw), and got to choose between Armourer and Destined for Greatness.
I chose Armourer.

All in all, I figure I got the better bargain out of that fight despite losing the battle.

>>53249156
that assumes you bottle out for your first couple of games without losing anyone, and roll well on your injuries. If you can get ten tau with BS4 and various shooty skills, that'll be nasty, but still not as nasty as an endgame skit/inq/harlie/etc

Oh, yeah. The way our tournament is working is so:

Tournament is 4 weeks long.
You can play 4 games a week (has to be at the store).
Store holds onto rosters to prevent funny business.
Whoever has the most promethium at the end wins.
There will also be a secondary award for best painted team as voted by the regulars.

>>53248764
>Their best gun is
See, here's the problem imo. I have yet to see Tau players discuss tactics. It's all stats stats stats. While that does play a role you can't judge the powerlevel of a faction based on that alone, or even based on that mainly.

>>53248764
>10 guys
Tau is ten guys plus up to three drones fyi

>>53249388
Tactics are a little lacking when you have no options due to your special weapons being flatly worse than your regular ones.

>>53249510
>Tactics based on gun stats.

I don't even

>>53249113
Never said anything about it being hard, I can't be bothered to do it, and I'm not buying paint just for that.

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>>53249641
It's like you want to crap miniatures you might as well play MtG or X-wing

>>53249586
The the capabilities of a kill team and the tactics they can utilize are affected by the weapons and wargear that are available to them.

I know this is a difficult concept but just try to follow along.

>Tau players don't know what to do when they don't have the best everything right out the gate
Iconic.

>>53249586
Models with laspistols function differently on a tactical level to models with autocannons.

>>53249586
>your gun is shorter range than enemy guns
>you lack the options your opponents have to improve your performance
>your opponents outrange you, usually by more than you can move in a turn
>you lack the capability to defende yourself in CC despite needing to close in order to use your gun

Make tactics from that, friend. Or at least explain how you make up for the shortcomings rather than telling us to do so.
>>53249696
Or just shitpost furiously, that works too

>>53249681
Now you can stop overreacting, the meme has been mentioned already.

I realize it's lazy but as I said I have a full backlog and precious little time, I'm not painting now just because I'm reading up the rules for the game and making a list. One day I might go back and finish them but not now.

>>53249687
Oh I know. But those factors only limit your available choices to a certain limit. A more fitting comparison would be "do they have guns or not?" Tactics have very little to do with how powerful your weapons are, and while tactical planning factors such things in it isn't dependent on it. Rather the other way around: The effectiveness of your weapons depend on the tactics used in employing them.

>>53249850
>your backlog is too long for you to spend 30 seconds painting armageddon dust onto a base
This isn't a "precious time" issue. It's you intentionally not finishing models for whatever fucked up reason.

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>>53249850
get painting bitich

>>53249892
I already said I paint the bases, I use what I have so no textured stuff.

>>53249932
>I don't finish painting my models.
Yes we established this already.

>>53249744
Not a good comparison I'm afraid. >>53249750
I would, but I'd have to show you on a gaming table. Set up simulations sts. My point is (although I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass to make an example) that say for example a csm team has ten choices in a given situation out of those ten maybe five choices are valid tactics while not guaranteeing any massive tactical gain. At the same time Tau might have ten choices in a given situation out of which one or two might be valid tactics and just one will give significant tactical gain. Do you get what I mean?

Btw I'm not the shitposter.

>>53249994
Whatever anon

>>53249932
>I'm too lazy to use conventional basing materials
>should I buy the thing they make so you can easily base models with no additional time investment
>no I'll just leave my models unfinished
I understand grey tides when plated by people who just don't give a shit about the hobby aspect of the game, but a dude who willfully leaves his minis unfinished for no fucking reason is incomprehensible to me and somehow worse.

>>53249932
Dude, just go outside, collect some free sand, take some pva or wood glue and thin it slightly so that you can paint it onto the base, sprinkle the sand over the glue, let dry, paint with thinned paint in a colour of your choice.

>>53250169
It's not about time or cost, it's about his neurotic aversion to basing.

>>53248358
>>53248764
So how should I play them if I don't want to get blasted to pieces?
I guess I'd have to advance carefully, staying in cover, avoiding melee and having my guys cover each other as much as I can, even if it means sometimes losing an occasion to land a good shot.
Photon grenades look kinda useless since Taus are such weaklings. Maybe it can save a dude from times to times against other Taus or "baseline humans" like guards, acolytes, cultists and stuff, but against most teams I don't think it would do much.
50 pts for the accelerator and inhibitor drones sound honestly priced. 110 pts is a bit much, but the sustained fire and 2W looks like it might be worth it.
It seems to me that markerlights can basically render photo-visors useless if used right. For the same price, I'm not sure there's a point in taking photo-visors.
With ammo rolls at 4+, I don't think reloads are absolutely needed.

I think in the first few games I'd have to focus on surviving and downing ennemy fighters whenever I can without giving much attention to promethium so that I can boost my dudes stats and force my opponent to rearm instead of giving new toys to his guys. Maybe one or two rail rifles could be useful once I have promethium and bonus points to spend on them. I think 100 pts for an ion rifle really isn't worth it, if I'm willing to waste ressources for special weapons everybody find useless I'd rather spend 20% more and get 25% more range.

This is all guesses since I haven't played much, and I have no idea how useful could SpecOps be.

>>53250229
I think Tau is not for everyone. You'd have to have a special kind of dedication or knack for tactical evaluation to play them right. That's what I mean about them being hard mode.

>>53245917
Pinned dudes help other pinned dudes stand just fine

>>53249429

Tau is 10 pathfinders and up to 3 drones, read the errata. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/05/shadow-war-armageddon-your-questions-answered/

>>53250511
But that's what he said

>>53250511
Yeah?
>>53250579
Exactly. :)

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>>53249750
>>53250229
>>53250362
>go look at Tau rules
>there's a drone that adds 6" to pulse weapon range
>Taufags are bitching about their S5 -2 Rend being short ranged when they can push it out to 24" and shrek the fuck out of other basic infantry
>markerlights aren't roll-to-hit or anything, it's just negate cover for a model within 30"
>B-but BS3!
Taufags confirmed to be netlisting shitbirds who can't figure anything out unless it's spoonfed to them by somebody who claims to play on the tourney circuit.

>>53250631
Tau moving and shooting at a marked target in cover hit as accurately as stationary guard with photo visors. But with a better gun. And a bigger team.

AND they complain about having a self firing heavy bolter on a two wound chassis for a third of the cost other teams pay?

>>53250837
It's not their fault, they're just retarded.

>wahhh we get no long range scopes
You have a drone that increases Pulse weapon ranges by 6". This is slightly worse than what a LRS would do for a Pulse Carbine, but the drone is 50pts and affects an unlimited number of models within range. Babysit 4 Pathfinders and get 100pts worth of range increase for 50.

>wahhh we get no laser sights
You get markerlights. Instead of bitching about not being able to increase your BS, keep hard cover between you and your victim, Mark them for full BS3 shooting while they have to suck up a -2 penalty if they want to return fire. Keep in mind again your 15pt item lets an unlimited number of friendly models ignore a -1/2 shooting penalty, while a photo-visor costs the same and only benefits ONE model.

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Tadaaaa. A little conversion. What to you think?

>>53251596
Would fight for/10

>>53250631
I'm >>53250362
I was trying to be nice and not say "Tau players generally suck at the game". :)

>>53251596
Thin yo paints, drill yo barrels reeee

Jk. It's nice. Can imagine the table will look pretty cool with that and the light a bit dimmed.

Someone in the thread said that you can' give sights to melta/plasma, is that true? I thought you could mount them on special weapons.

>>53251757
Can or can't?

>>53251757
You can, it's just salty retards who think you shouldn't because muh WAAC

>>53251757
You can put red dot on melta, but not telescopic.

>>53251757
Can't*

>>53251757
Plasma can have both. Melta can only have red dot.

>>53251866
Mind pointing out where it says that? Can't find it.

>>53251866
>>53251919
It says it can in the book.

>>53251927
Errata/FAQ. See OP.

>>53252012
Eeehh, my group doesn't like using third party material.
I'll stick to what I can do in the book.

>>53252012
Thanks, kept reading about this errata around but didn't think it was the FAQ

>>53252067
Are you someone new pretending to be retarded, or one of the other guys back for more? Here (you) go.