/osrg/ OSR General

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>>53122114
>Of all the OSR blogs you actively follow, which do you like the least?

http://soogagames.blogspot.ca/
Into the Odd is good and the posts are useful and the system even has worthwhile things to steal, but the setting and most of the posts just aren't useful for my games. I'm vaguely annoyed by this. The content is very good but I can't /use/ any of it.

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>>53121827
>Paint cans aren't the right for any job besides holding paint.
As any 2efag could tell you, the paint can class extends the bucket group.
And buckets have many uses.

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>>53122347
Oh dear god it's spreading. Why couldn't dragon banking make the jump instead?

>>53122429
A dragon's bank would make for a neat dungeon.
Goblins a la. Harry Potter seem obvious, but what else? Coin golems? Other bankrobbers?
When you return to the surface, do you put the loot in your account at the same bank?

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Alright, let's crank up the shitposting. What about 2hus in OSR games?
>Reimu is a specialty priest
>Marisa is a dual-classed thief/wizard
>Meiling is a monk
>Sakuya is a throwing-kinfe specialized fighter with the inherent ability to use time stop
>Cirno is the strongest fairy in existence with a whopping 9+9 HD and cannot die as long as the concept of cold exists

>>53122507
>coin golems

I've always found adding "X golem" to X themed dungeon was always really lazy and kind of unimaginative

>It's the temple of manos, the hand of fate. better watch out for the hand golems

>We're going into the tomb of the snake, better watch out for the snake golems

>Those fish people are gearing up for an attack! Watch out, those barnacle golems sure hit like a truck

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>>53122814
Coin golem are really more of a Gotcha! than a monster.

>Plumbing the depths of a dungeon golem? Beware its fractal might!

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>>53122814
>>53122983
Coin Golem of the First Blue Dragon Bank (BDB)
Stats: as a purple worm, except no stinger, and the effects below

Damage: takes half from slashing or bludgeoning. Immunity to piercing.

Swarm Composition: the Coin Golem operates more like a sci-fi nanomachine swarm than a monster. It will form bodies as needed. Each round, it can spend 6 points on the following abilities. Effects are cumulative

1 point: increase move speed by 10'
1 point: leap a 10' gap
1 point: fire a ranged coin blast attack at a target (30', 2d6 bludgeoning damage, Save vs Dex negates)
2 points: giant coin fist (extra d6 damage to a target)
2 points: convert 1d100 gold, silver, or copper pieces carried by a target into more coin golem. Gain the same 1d100/10 HP.

Wants: to protect the depositors and deposits at BNB. To swallow (crush) someone.
Behavior: as a giant flowing headless snake of coins. No, not a snake, a swarm of flies. No, not a swarm, a cloud. Not a cloud, a fist.

Blind, but can sense vibration very well. Will send out coin feelers that will tremble in the air.

>>53123126
>Swarm Composition: the Coin Golem operates more like a sci-fi nanomachine swarm than a monster. It will form bodies as needed. Each round, it can spend 6 points on the following abilities. Effects are cumulative

Pretty sure there was a monster like this in Final Fantasy 3 - quite literally just a swarm of "haunted coins"

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>>53123141
>Pretty sure there was a monster like this in Final Fantasy 3 - quite literally just a swarm of "haunted coins"

I don't want to sound dismissive, but this comment is literally useless to me, and probably to anyone else.

It's not an original monster idea, obviously. But is there anything from FF3 that you'd want to steal or add or contribute or hack or otherwise /do/ something with, in relation to this idea? Any criticism you'd like to offer? Any other ideas you can riff on?

>>53123126
I was just going to do
>Fight as troll. Always regenerates. Loses 1hp/50gp restrained (HELD seperate) from it's bulk, otherwise immune to non-magical weapons.
But sure, what you've got is nice and spiffy.

I could imagine using what you've got as the core of a chase based dungeon.
The God that Crawls would be a good comparison; but honestly, I always think of the Sumberged Castle from Pikmin 2.

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>>53123369
>The God that Crawls would be a good comparison

I've been meaning to rewrite TGTC as an actual... more usable dungeon. Not sure a coin golem is appropriate (the damn thing is literally worth its weight in gold, so the players will want to kill and loot it, not run from it).

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I think the lack of sleep is starting to get to me. I just had a vivid hallucination of Werner Herzog as a lich, following a party around and narrating their actions.

>>53124067
I think I just got inspiration for my next villain - An ancient lich who starts shit just so he can view them in a crystal ball and narrate their actions to himself simply because he is bored.

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>>53124119
Also had an idea for a theater in the centre of a city. You pay to view plays, or scenes via giant scrying mirrors made of falling mercury. You, and a dozen other audiences across the empire, can all watch the same live play taking place somewhere else. Or you could all watch the execution of a criminal, the outcome of a battle, or a grand tournament and feast. The technology is new and the fumes cause madness.

>>53122114
>Would you rather explore corridors or an empty room?

Corridors, for they can lead somewhere.

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I made a simplified "interesting treasure" table. It's not fancy but it's quick.

>>53122114
About TroveGuy

Early last month TroveGuy stopped talking in the Discord server that he regularly spoke in. A few weeks later he returned and apologized for being gone. Since that day he's vanished again and is assumed to have moved on.

>>53124471
>and is assumed to have moved on.
By who? He said hi in the discord the 20th of April, and I haven't seen anyone talking about him much since. He's often online in the discord, just "away".

What will you reincarnate as? http://luduscarcerum.blogspot.fi/2011/06/custom-reincarnate-tables-2-all-of-them.html

>>53125174
An Ettin apparently.

>>53124153
I like it. Is the toxic aspect known? If so, are the signs of poisoning considered an affectation of higher-class or a grotesque form of social climbing depending on someone's social set?

>>53122114
Is there any good random encounter tables in the trove? Im looking but I can't seem to find any.

>>53125611
Nevermind, I found the right folder.

>>53125641
Tell me the folder too. I love random tables.

>>53125174
A choker.

This is a neat table.

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>>53098753
>>53101623
>>53108096
>>53111023
Still waiting on an entry for location 3.

OSR blogs poll, URLs taken from the Pastebin:

https://www.strawpoll.me/12856929 (1/2)
https://www.strawpoll.me/12856933 (2/2)

#3 The Never-Was

"This place is a message, and part of a system of messages, pay attention to it!
Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.
This place is not a place of honor, no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here nothing valued is here.
What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger.
The danger is in a particular location. It increases toward a center. The center of danger is here, of a particular size and shape, and below us.
The danger is still present, in your time, as it was in ours.
The danger is to the body, and it can kill.
The form of the danger is an emanation of energy.
The danger is unleashed only if you substantially disturb this place physically. This place is best shunned and left uninhabited."
- Expert Judgment on Markers to Deter Inadvertent Human Intrusion into the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant

Ancient societies toyed briefly with temporal weapons in their darkest conflicts before the threat of wholesale destruction convinced those in power that such technologies were not worth the risk. The fallout from these weapons, when they could not be disposed of, was stored in places like this one. The containment of histories, presents and futures that never were or could be allowed to be are locked here under aging wards of this terrible purpose.

Those who stray through this area report bizarre encounters: pitched battles of bygone armies frozen in time, places where entropy flows backwards or stutters in loops or meetings with other versions of themselves. The landscape shifts here, many don't come back at all.

At the center of the flat, sometimes featureless plain grows a spur-tower of obsidian glass like a looming two dimensional reflection. Stretching taller each year it is a symptom that the containments are failing.

Shit, forgot to link.

>>53126319 intended for >>53126009

>>53126009
You're pdfanon, right?
If you are, I hate to bother you again but I realized I did a pretty severe lexical error in the description for #2. Would it be possible to fix it? I'll put the errors and how it should be changed in the spoilers below:

"A tower of tungsten lays buoyant in it," should be "A tower of tungsten stands vertically in it,"
"A titan made of semi-molten rock lays sleeping" should be "A titan made of semi-molten rock lies sleeping"

>>53126319
>someone else thought of using this
I'm using that guide for a dungeon location in my planetary romance game.

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>>53126319
>>53126338
Done and done. Hope this is good enough; if any additional changes are needed, I'll be sure to make them.

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>>53126681
You're better than a hero, anon. You're a goddamn swashbuckler. Thank you for compiling the whole thing.

It's great seeing /osrg/ get shit done.

Hello fellow tg'ers.

I've been looking all the morning (european guy here) for a d30 sandbox companion's pdf, but I'm out of luck today. I'm humbly requesting it, if any of you happen to have it.

Thank you fellas.

>>53126681
>>53122114
Has /osrg/ ever tried to make a campaign world together?

Is DeltaDnD's Book of War and Book of Spells in the treasure trove?

>>53127384
I think people are a bit scared of sharing it around here. The people who made it took down our trove several times a couple months back, so we had to remove it from there. I don't have it so I can't share it sadly.

>>53127417
I have a feeling that wouldn't work, people are too scattered and have such different design philosophies that I can't see progress being made. It seems like we work better as seeders. Ask for a map or dungeon to be stocked, or for a table on some specific thing to be made, and someone will probably produce something.

>>53127627
Well thank you anyways :)

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>>53125174
Fat bitch v2 (fensir)

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>>53126945
Aw shucks, you're making me blush.

>>53127627
Yeah, that makes sense. I suspected any attempt to be a bit wonky. It would be cool if we could group the different contributors by their philosophies and have them put something together for a singular continent, but organizing that alone would probably fall flat.

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>>53127824
>filename

>>53127384
Like the other guy said, the guys who made that are faggots. Ask in the PDF share thread, maybe.

>>53128584
Will do. Thank you.

>>53127417
Lurkers aside, we have like 45 regulars.
The threads hit 60, but that includes tourists and people with multiple devices.

Anyways, of those 45 like 20 sometimes post content.
Bearing on mind disinterest or not being online, you can get like 5 people collaborating. Tops.


Your best bet is to make a system ambiguous thread (or pick a more popular system), then convert afterwords.

>>53128257
They've got the noses and everything.

Does OSR have any good rules for firearms or explosives anywhere?

>>53129555

LotFP has some good ones for early firearms. I recall seeing another set of rules talked about here that were in like a magazine, but Ican't remember the name of it. Maybe someone else will chime in.

>>53119984
I took a look at this. Neat. The opening paragraph is a bit awkward when you're talking about levels and flooding. I get what you mean though. I'd add a small table or different ways to summon/otherwise come across a leviathan.

I like the generation table and layout for the organ dungeon a lot, feels medieval medical, especially the blood/bile separation and side organs. I'm inclined towards adding another few weird organs that don't make sense to mortals but that's more my game tone.

Haven't crunched the numbers on the odds of rolling 1-6 twice in a row for empty organs, but you could probably just have that be one roll with a different range. It would make that smoother.

I'm not sure about oxygen percentages. Part of me likes it, and if there's air supply equipment it adds another resource management part to the game and gives you weird organic breathable treasures and parasites to make deals with. But it also seems like it could become more of a chore with the current %. Not sure though, more of a feeling.

I'd give the Sea Beast Heart some sort of attack, or maybe charm person, or something. Also ways/rules for cutting out through the side of the beast.

Looks cool though, I'm definitely going to use it and keep an eye on your blog.

>ways to summon a leviathan
>Construct an arcane wind chime made from sea witch bones and suspend it from a buoy in a storm
>Dump 666 inscribed barrels of chum while sailing the middle passage
>Recite the forbidden verse of the Rhyme Of The Ancient Mariner with no land in sight on a becalmed day
>Preform the savage ritual taught to you by the coastal hoodoo off the shore of an erupting volcano

>>53129555
>>53129609
You're probably thinking of Hack! Firearms. It's pretty good.

>>53129825

That's the one!

>>53129555
ACKs™ - Guns of War

>>>53122925
This. I love 4chan. It's incisive and direct. Anonymity helps, ofc. If I wanna talk about, home brew and play a were dolphin where else am I going to go, seriously?

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>>53125607
>I like it. Is the toxic aspect known?

Only to alchemists, who write angry letters to local churches and nobles and are ignored completely. The madness is spreading like a cancer, but people still attend. Ushers in white masks discreetly remove anyone who disturbs the performance.

>>53126945
Seconded.

>>53124398
Any thoughts on this table?

>>53124398
I like it, though I feel compelled to point out that it tells me to roll a d50 to determine a number ranging from 1 to 100. Also, shields aren't weapons.

>>53129825
>>53129879
I can't find either of these in the trove.

>>53130203
Hack! Firearms is in supplements>misc.

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>>53130142
Bah. I'll fix the d100 reference. And shields belong in Weapons for convenience.

>>53124398
I like the d100 treasure table. I don't like that something has just as much chance of being priceless as being worth 100 gp. I'd say make that a 2d10 table and rearrange the results for how likely you think things should be worth.

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>>53130348
My logic on that table is that it's for when the GM doesn't know the value offhand.

In a referee-type system (players vs. rules, GM to moderate), you'd want a much more robust and balanced table. This is more like a... memory aid, for narrative plavers vs GM's world campaign.

So ideally, I'd know how much a given treasure is worth, because a 1,000 gp treasure would unbalance the party and a 10gp treasure is getting ignored or left behind. For situations where I /don't/ know or I'm in a hurry or I need a rough idea of the 10s digit of price, I wrote a table.

>>53130447
But even if it's just a memory aid, there being a 5% chance of the thing being priceless is kind of crazy. You say yourself that a 1000 gp treasure would unbalance the party, so shouldn't there be a bigger chance of a standard, balanced value being rolled?

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What's your favorite "iconic" giant?
What's your favorite "obscure" giant?
What's your favorite "weirdo" giant?

>>53130674
Fire giants
Cyclopskin
Formorian

>>53130674
Frost.
Verbeegi.
Are there other weirdos than formorians at all?

>>53130731
>Are there other weirdos than formorians at all?
The spelljammer versions, the athasian versions, polarweres, and shadkyn? Plus any others from retro-clones.

>>53130674
Answering myself
>Fire giants
>Voadkyn/Wood giants
>Shadkyn/Wood giant werebats

>>53130674
>iconic
Storm Giant

>obscure
Shadow Giant

>weirdo
Fhoimorien Giant

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>>53130647
>being a 5% chance of the thing being priceless is kind of crazy.

Think of it as a 5% chance to use the table, followed by a 5% chance of a priceless item.

And priceless can mean a lot of things. Unless one of the PCs is an expert in ceramic work they might not recognize the piece. They might sell it for a fraction of its true value. It might attract a horde of treasure-mad lunatics once it does sell. It might be "acquired" by a local lord for free. It might be smashed during a chase.

>>53130447
>narrative player memory aid
I'm probably one of those. Hot opinions coming up. I tend to use more detailed random tables to make list based memory aids for region encounters, random treasures etc and then put them on an index card. As is, the table in a spot where it isn't small enough to keep around just in case, and doesn't have enough meat to be inspirational. For an interesting treasure table that's suppose to be evocative find having a noun/verb/power set up works better.

I like the egg part though. That's cool. A table with random magical eggs would be great. Egg shell textures, colours, requirements for hatching, nests, contents and use for magic rituals would be great.

>textures
>1.Perfectly smooth
>2.Dimpled
>3.Metallic
>4.Wet & sticky
>5.Thorny
>6.Arabesque
>7.Angular & geometric
>8.Gritty
>9.Glued back together
>10.Dented
>11.Flower petals
>12.Hatching

stuff like that

>>53122114
Did any of the zines carry solo adventures like the BECMI tutorial?

Does anyone have a download of Empire of Imagination? The Gygax biography from a while back?

Can anyone summarize the differences between the deluxe and free versions of Godbound? Is it just the art and stuff?

text w/o comment

LEVEL 1
Halito (Little Fire) Inflicts 1-8 fire damage to a single target
Mogref (Body Iron) Reduces caster's AC by 2
Katino (Bad Air) Puts a group of animal or humanoid monsters to sleep*
Dumapic (Clarity) Tells you were the stairs are and what direction you face
LEVEL 2
Dilto (Darkness) Raises the AC of a group of enemies
Sopic (Glass) Caster's AC is reduced by 4
LEVEL 3
Mahalito (Big Fire) Inflicts 4-24 fire damage to a group of enemies
Molito (Sparks) Inflicts 3-18 damage damage to a group of enemies
LEVEL 4
Morlils (Fear) Reduces the AC of a group of enemies
Dalto (Blizzard) Inflicts 6-36 ice damage
Lahalito (Torch) Inflicts 6-36 fire damage
LEVEL 5
Mamorlis (Terror) Reduces hit% of all enemies
Makanito (Deadly Air) Attempts to kill all air-breathing enemies > 40 HP
Madalto (Frost King) Inflicts 8-64 ice damage
LEVEL 6
Lakanito (Vacuum) Kills all air-breathing monsters in a group
Zilwan (Dispel) Dispels (kills) a single undead enemy
Masopic (Crystal) Reduces party's AC by 8
Haman (Beg) Appeals to gods for help**
LEVEL 7
Malor (Teleport) Teleports the party to a random location on the same level
Mahaman (Beseech) A more powerful version of Haman**
Tiltowait (Ka-blam!) Inflicts 10-150 damage to all monsters

*Sleeping monsters cannot attack. They are easier to hit and receive 2x
damage from physical attacks.

**Haman and Mahaman can only be cast by a level 13+ character. Caster appeals
to the gods for help, consuming 1 experience level. If the gods help, one of
many things can happen:
-Silence all enemies
-Magic becomes more effective
-Dialko (softness) on the entire party 3 times
-Madi (restore) on entire the party
-Kill all enemies
-Protect the party
-Teleport monsters
-Restore the dead

>>53132254
(You) w/o comment

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>>53132254

>>53131960
None off the top of my head. Have you looked at Black Stream's solo heroes/Scarlet Heroes? I've had a good time using it to convert modules to solo play.

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>>53129740
Thanks! The Empty Room/Monster/Guarded Treasure/Treasure % is based on the Table V.F. of the Dungeon Master's guide pg 171. Whenever I use the original percentages for populating dungeons I would get an uncomfortable amount of empty rooms, so I just re-rolled the contents of the empty rooms.

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>>53131503
>Hot opinions coming up.
*fans self* Ooh Mr. Darcy...

> I tend to use more detailed random tables to make list based memory aids for region encounters, random treasures etc and then put them on an index card.

That'd be handy. If you want more detailed treasure tables of all kinds this PDF has you covered: http://angband.oook.cz/steamband/Treasure.pdf

And it's very good and very useful and very... slow. I wanted to build a table I could glance at and then riff on from there. I can fill in my own verbs and powers for something like this pretty easily. I usually keep a word cloud on an index card that helps me return to core ideas for a dungeon or setting.

And let's see. After:
-Animist Wizards
-God Eater Paladins
-Unique Death Conditions
-Tomb of the Serpent Kings Session 4
-Tomb of the Serpent Kings Map Level 3
-Prismatic Dragons
-An example of cave building using Veins of the Earth
-Star Wars stuff

I'll add in
-Egg Table

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>>53133480
I dig. The empty rooms count seems more like a thing for larger dungeons, because they're handy to have space to breath, but the sea monster innards aren't as large. I'll make a leviathan and see how it looks. Might end up making the empty rooms the unidentifiable organs.

Sea monster dungeons have been on the back burner for a while. Basically since I saw the Matt Kish illustrated moby dick.

Are there any better random charts and tables for diseases than what AD&D 1e DMG offers?

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saw Talislanta pop up here a while back so i'll share this >>53133443

>>53130674
Iconic-Hill/stone giants
Obscure-Sand giant
Wierd-Monster Movie Kaiju

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https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/05/osr-unique-death-conditions.html

All powerful creatures should have unique death conditions. Why do vampires get to have all the fun?

>>53135145
Speaking of vampires:

http://blogofholding.com/?p=7111
http://blogofholding.com/?p=7171

Not all vampires should turn into bats, not all vampires should be allergic to garlic.

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>>53135265
Ooh, useful. Especially when combined with: http://rememberdismove.blogspot.ca/2015/05/vampire-generator.html

>>53135145
i entered the link, read that and got hooked on the minor angels and paradox angels articles.

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>>53135433
Good to hear. If you liked those, check out the Summoner class or the articles on Elementals.

>>53135449
right now im reading the entities article. are you the author? should be really good to play a game with you.

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>>53135525
I am. And I appreciate the sentiment, even though I don't run online games. Hopefully some of the nonsense I write is useful to you in your games.

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>>53041321
At the price of being facetious, here is the /real/ Fire-User class.

>>53135757
Now if only I could read that.

What is your favorite module of A) Original B) Basic C) Advanced 1st edition D) advanced 2nd edition E) your favored OSR systems each F) overall?

>>53135265
>>53135362
See this kind of stuff grinds my gears
>my vampire is JAMES BOND except he turns into a FROG and is repelled by BARE FEET isn't it WEIRD

Congratulations, you've traded the generic stereotype for pointless weirdness, what's the next step of your master plan?

>>53136257
>favorite module of A) Original
Tegel Manor
>B) Basic
X1 Isle of Dread
>C) Advanced 1st edition
I6 Castle Ravenloft
>D) advanced 2nd edition
WGA4 Vecna Lives
>E) your favored OSR systems each
I am not sure what you mean.
>F) overall?
Either LotFP or BFRPG

>>53136594
>I am not sure what you mean.

I mean take all the OSR systems you like to play, and list your favorite modules for each.

>F) overall?

This also means your favorite module of the whole lot, rather than the OSR systems you like.

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>>53136623
Oh, gotcha.
>E) your favored OSR systems each
LFP0038 World of the Lost
>F) overall?
LFP0038 World of the Lost

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>>53136718
World of the Lost is underrrated as fuck.

>>53136257
>OD&D
Is there even such a thing as an OD&D module?

>B/X
B4 The Lost City

>1e
Either In Search of New Gods (Gamemaster) or Keep for Sale (Dragon magazine)

>2e
I like lots of pieces of 2e modules that actually like the majority of. Maybe Adam's Wrath because of the great thematic dungeon.

>Labyrinth Lord
Smoking Pillar of Lan-Yu

>DCC
In the Wake of The Zorkul

>Heroes & Other Worlds
The funnel adventure in Cauldron #1

>>53136257
>What is your favorite module of A) Original
Caverns of Thracia
>B) Basic
Haven't played
>C) Advanced 1st edition
Dark Tower
>D) advanced 2nd edition
All shit
>E) your favored OSR systems each
Rappan Athuk (Swords & Wizardry), Stonehell (Labyrinth Lord), Well of the Worm (DCC)
F) overall?
Stonehell or Dark Tower

>>53136551
Post about how cool it is, ask for input and ignore criticism?

>>53136888
>Is there even such a thing as an OD&D module?

Yeah, that Vampire Queen thing that was the very first module was for OD&D.

>>53136257
>A) Original
I'm pretty sure Temple of the Frog is the only one of these that actually exists, so that by default.

>B) Basic
B10.

>C) Advanced 1st edition
G1.

>D) advanced 2nd edition
These are uniformly dogshit, like Anon said.

>E) your favored OSR systems each
This is unfortunate phrasing because I really don't favor LotFP as a system, and none of the others has very good modules IMO. But supposing you just want to know our favorite OSR modules, A Red and Pleasant Land and Castle of the Mad Archmage (Which I don't think is tied to a retroclone, it's just AD&D IIRC) would be my choices.

>F) overall?
Overall it's Paul Jaquays' JG modules -- Caverns of Thracia, the Book of Treasure Maps and Dark Tower -- followed by some of the other JG classics like Tegel Manor.

With few exceptions, though, adventure modules have never been the best products for D&D or in fact any RPG. All of my favorite works are settings and tools, like the CSIO, Wilderlands, Vornheim, Carcosa, the JG Castle, Village and Island books, and of course the classic Ready Ref Sheets, or texts ABOUT the game itself, like the FFC. (I guess that counts as a setting too, though.) Al-Qadim deserves a mention as well, as the best of the settings from the 2E era and honestly, probably the best TSR setting period. I love Greyhawk, but there's not a lot of meat in the Folio, even though the maps are stunning.

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>>53136551
I'd agree in most cases, but Vampires and Dragons both have enough folklore variants and sub-variants that I'd say almost anything could fall under those headings. Transform into a rat? Be afraid of garlic, or salt, or a woman with red hair? All traditional methods and all equally incomprehensible.

If you're running a game where tropes are very important, then by all means, don't mix it up. But with historically savvy players, saying "this vampire turns into a snake and fears white clothes" is going to get you some knowing nods of "Oh, right, folklore, of course."

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>>53137437
My issue with it is that vampires (and dragons) shouldn't be rolled up using random tables. They're not mooks, they're closer to NPCs (or at least they should be). So, let me take frog vampire guy.
>grew up in an abusive household
>loved a girl but she didn't love him
>cursed for eating the flesh of a bullywug/kuo-toa/frogling witch
>can extend tongue like a frog
>turns into a man-sized or normal-sized albino frog
>can summon swarms of blood-drinking but otherwise mundane frog
>lair is cave accessible only by diving into a pond
>praising him keeps him at bay
>can only leave his damp lair on humid or foggy days or takes damage
>can only be slain by finding his true love and having her kiss him on the lips/hug him

I plan on running either LoFP or DCC soon, which is easier to set up if I've never GM'd before?

>>53138418
LOTFP by a long shot

>>53138436
Thanks, I better get reading then

>>53138418
LotFP. Also, be sure to get a few of the modules. I recommend No Salvation for Witches, World of the Lost, Vornheim, Carcosa, The God that Crawls & Tower of the Stargazer.

>>53138579
I dunno why nobody ever includes A Single Small Cut in the list of recommended LOTFP adventures. It's one of the betters by a long shot.

>>53138878
Can't recommend what I don't own personally

>>53132856
Thanks for the help!

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>>53138011
Tables are useful for both classic approaches.

As a referee: I rolled that a vampire is in room 26. What attributes does it have?

As a GM: I want to put a vampire in yonder castle. Dracula has been done to death in Ravenloft. What other features could it have? Let me roll on / pick from this table.

>>53138878
calling it an adventure is a bit generous
more like an encounter

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Oh jeeze, last post was 2hrs ago and we're on page 8. Anyone awake?

Haven't got a lot of feedback on my Unique Death Conditions article>>53135145

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>>53135795
It's a shittier, but more prestigious, Magic-User. Just like the Illusionist.
Unlike the Illusionist, a few of the Pyrologist's spells are above the curve.

They're also allowed to be Clerics. Which is a thing OD&D normally bars MUs from doing.

>>53141024
The bit about keeping the vampire's head across a river is neat, I guess?

I'm honestly not a fan of setting specific stuff. I have my own settings.
Settings posts are the least cumbersome framework to deliver food for thought, and you've been pretty good at that, but this... isn't.
It's too concrete. There's no pomp of mystery. It doesn't activate my almonds.

Setting content either needs to be ambiguous enough to filch, or nebulous enough to muse.

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>>53141168
That's fair. I guess the goal was to make people think about giving powerful creatures death effects in their setting and then give a few examples.

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Also, I'm going to post my Chromatic Dragons before I put them up on my blog, to get some preliminary feedback. You might find some of the content boring but I hope a few lines are useful. At leas the art is good.

Once, there was one dragon, or one kind of dragon. It's unclear. The stones remember it. They say it lived before the Authority created the moon and thousands of years before mortals showed up. The Sunlight Dragon was immortal, invulnerable, and one of the most terrifying things the Authority had ever created. It devoured primordial trolls. It devoured everything.

The stones aren't sure what happened next. Some of them say that primordial trolls built a giant prism of completely normal, nonmagical matter. Some say that the Authority himself interposed His form (the most perfect conceptual triangle) in the Sunlight Dragon's flightpath.

The Sunlight Dragon (or Dragons) was split into 8 Chromatic Dragons, and ever since their descendants have bounded around Creation, still powerful, still immortal, and still immensely proud, but they are flawed and incomplete creatures. All dragons love flattery, and all dragons hoard things, but no two dragons are alike, just as no two sunsets are alike.

Some dragons have made alliances with the elements. The terms of these alliances are inscrutable. It is unknown if dragons have allied themselves with the winds to allow them to fly, or if they fly under their own power. The winds always change the subject.

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Red Dragons

Disposition: Wrathful, Short-Sighted, Impatient, Cruel
Common Hoards: Swords, Shields, Corpses, Coal, Crippled Knights
Elemental Alliance: Fire


Red dragons are warm enough to boil water. They glow like a coal. They are the slowest and dimmest of the dragons, but they are also the most ferocious. They delight in combat. Most have scars and embedded weapons. They sometimes bite limbs off knights or particularly interesting warriors and keep them as trophies. Red dragons that are allied with fire elementals have glowing guts and breathe gouts of choking fire. Those that rely on their own power breath rays of pure heat, invisible and utterly deadly. They live in caves, accumulate food and worshipers, and occasional rise to destroy a city and devour the army sent against them. Dragons allied with fire elementals must devour fuel. Coal is the most common, but there are legendary dragons who grew enormouly powerful by devouring pure troll oil.

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Orange Dragons

Disposition: Lustful, Curious, Vindictive, Ostentatious, Insecure
Common Hoards: Beautiful People, Artwork, Books, Gemstones
Elemental Alliance: None

Orange dragons are beautiful, even in their war-forms. They are natural shapechangers and shift forms as easily as a human putting on clothes or armor. Of all the dragons they love flattery most, and will even reward artists who create works to suit the dragon's whims. Once a work has been admired it is added to the hoard: a vast raft of paintings, a nest of sculptures, a library of poetry, all fixated on one topic; the dragon itself. They build palaces in impossible locations. A bored dragon might change itself into a human, visit a city, and show off its form and skills. They take lovers, become patrons of the arts, live for decades without aging and then, one day, take offense and erupt into their furious war-form and savage and entire district. Orange dragons are not as smart as they think they are. Pointing this out is unwise. They do not breathe any elements or rays but most learn to cast spells.

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>that feel when trying to get an IRL game of lotfp going at my local store and no one shows up.

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Yellow Dragons

Disposition: Greedy, Secretive, Manipulative, Obsessive
Common Hoards: Coins, Deeds, Lawyers, Ascetic Monks
Elemental Alliance: Stone

Yellow dragons are the world's greatest bankers. They live for centuries. They are risk-adverse to the point of mania. If you miss a payment, they'll fly over your city as a gentle reminder. They have vast reserves and minds like machines. No one is sure who first taught yellow dragons the principles of loans and interest rates. It's possible, as they claim, that they invented the idea. They live in great marble and granite halls, hollowing entire mountains to make mazes and vaults. Their ancient alliance with stone elementals lets them fly through stone as if it were water and makes a bare vault a deathtrap for thieves. Some breathe sand or cannonballs of stone. Ancient yellow dragons can reduce a city to rubble in a few hours. They assemble (and pay) legions of accountants and lawyers, and keep property-less monks as curiosities. Creatures who willingly resist temptation amuse them. The greatest Dragon Banks conduct themselves like nation-states and grant knighthoods and honours with the solemnity equal to any mortal kingdom.

You can read about dragon banks here:>>53121962

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>>53141831
Don't give up anon! You can do it.

Green Dragons

Disposition: Envious, Melancholic, Decadent, Spiteful
Common Hoards: Animals, Prisoners, Rare Metals
Elemental Alliance: Acid

Green dragons made a poor deal with acid elementals. They can breath horrifying clouds of caustic gas, or spray concentrated streams of acid that melts plate armour in seconds, but the dragon's skin is coated in acid sludge. Their bodies are living toxic waste dumps. Mortal creatures burn near them. Green dragons secretly resent their condition, but are too proud to alleviate their misery. Instead, they poison farmland and rivers, watch animals die in their presence, keep prisoners and taunt them, and seek metals able to withstand their caustic effluvia. They live in slick tunnels, often half-filled with sludge or water, and but conduct themselves like kings in exile. You can offer little to a green dragon. Some alchemists have bred slave races for them in exchange for mercenary services.

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Blue Dragons

Disposition: Gluttonous, Quick-Witted, Fickle, Wise
Common Hoards: Sunken Ships, Spices, Raw Ingots
Elemental Alliance: Water

Swimming as fast as they can fly, and flying faster than any bird, blue dragons are a well-known terror along the coast of some nations. They can grow large enough to swallow whales whole. They sink ships by accident or by design, dragging the wrecks to the bottom and building wooden cities in the cold and sunless depths. No creature is more feared in Creation. From the bottom of the sea to the highest clouds, nothing can escape the predatory gaze of a blue dragon. But for all this, the dragons are not cruel or vicious monsters. They choose their targets with care. They can be reasoned with, and even bribed with herds of cattle or barques of fish. Their alliance with water is not always a calm one. While the dragon might call rainstorms or whirlpools, water elementals sometimes race ahead to warn sailors and fishermen. The can breathe jets of water but prefer to use their teeth and claws.

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Indigo Dragons

Disposition: Slothful, Contemplative, Domineering, Distracted
Common Hoards: Music, Furs, Slaves, Magic
Elemental Alliance: Lightning

Rarely encountered in Creation, the indigo dragon is a sticky, indolent creature that dwells in forgotten temples, disused catacombs, and collapsed cities. It rarely attacks outside its den. Indigo dragons are involved in passionate affairs with lighting elementals, and the strain of the relationship distracts them from most concerns. They can charm with a glance and set armies of slaves on half-mentioned tasks. They use magic only to make their lives easier. In battle, they are terrifying foes. They breath torrents of lighting, a crackling wave that can kill an entire army in one pass. Most consider it a blessing that these dragons rarely find the need to use their arsenal. Above all else, they prefer to be left alone but they will pay to have annoyances, from flies to mountain ranges, removed.

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Violet Dragons

Disposition: Proud, Maniacal, Ascetic, Predatory

Common Hoards: Bones, Buildings, Crowns, Historians

Elemental Alliance: None
Of all the chromatic dragons, the violet are the most delighted to merely exist. Other dragons validate themselves with hordes or flattery. A violet dragon knows exactly what it is; perfection. This maniacal self-obsession drives them to live on craggy mountaintops or unadorned caves. Carved stone would only weaken them. They collect buildings of other races to mock, along with the crowns of deposed kings, books of fallen empires, and the bones of the famous and the powerful. They attack on a whim and retreat beyond retaliation. Their fangs cut soul and flesh alike. They breathe an invisible, deadly light that sets the air on fire and sings like shattering glass. Those struck by the beam of a violet dragon go blind or develop hideous skin lesions. Violet dragons can fly through the upper air of creation and bask in the light of the sun without ill effect.

(The beam of an indigo dragon is like the beam from Shin Godzilla, except mostly invisible and made of not-brightness. You know those purple LED christmas lights that look a little weird, like they're brighter than they ought to be? That's how a Violet Dragon looks on a good day.)

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Octarine Dragons:

Disposition: Unknown

Common Hoards: Unknown
Elemental Alliance: None
Also known as comets. Scrying and interviews with stones that fall from the sky indicate that comets are gigantic dragons the colour of pure magic. No one knows where they go, or why they do not visit Creation's surface. Scholars believe that an octarine dragon's presence would usher an age of madness and death across every land.

>>53126681
thanks for making the pdf, and thanks everybody for ganging up on this
>It's great seeing /osrg/ get shit done.

>>53135757
I knew about this when I posted it. The thing is that it doesn't feel good at all. You are a MU+, and MUs are already pretty lame.
I never felt like Magic-Users *Use Magic*. They are just reusable scrolls of perfectly predictable one-shot tricks.
Plus all the pixelbitching about equipment and restrictions ffs

How do you handle investigation in your games /osrg/? Silent Legions supports generation of broad structures and the moves and counter-moves of opposing organisations, but I'm wondering if there are any other alternatives.

If you wanted to provide the opportunity for players to go digging through old archives, questioning the descendants of the original builders or figuring out the provenance of artifacts to learn clues about the history, layout and composition of a dungeon they plan to assault, how would you go about setting it up?

whats everyones thoughts on Basic Fantasy roleplaying? too simple? or is there no point when everyone who wants to play olschool already has the old books of the original systems?

>>53129555
I like the rules Fantastic Heroes & Witchery has for them

>>53137437
>I'd agree in most cases, but Vampires and Dragons both have enough folklore variants and sub-variants that I'd say almost anything could fall under those headings
agreed, same with the terms Goblin, Troll, Giant, Witch, and Fairy

Why are familiars so shit?
http://www.frontiernet.net/~jamesstarlight/FindFamiliar.html

What do think of "popcorn initiative"?

The idea is that the player (or DM) who acts first in a combat round does their thing, and then they get to decide who goes next. They can decide that one of the other players goes next, or one of the monsters. And then it goes on like that until the round is over. The interesting thing about it is that it isn't always the best idea to just let the rest of the players move immediately, because that would result in the monsters attacking en masse.

Would this work in an OSR system?

>>53126026
Anyone read Don't Split the Party? He has some good stuff on character classes....

>>53130674
>What's your favorite "iconic" giant?
HIll. Parties underestimate them
>What's your favorite "obscure" giant?
Jungle. No one expects an arrow the size of a telephone pole in the jungle
>What's your favorite "weirdo" giant?
Verbeeg. No idea why

>>53135757
Lew Pulsipher's pyromancer looks like this, but a hair better. I'll see if I can dig out a copy

>>53136257
A) Caverns o Thracia
B) Isle of Dread
C) Ghost Tower of Inverness
D) Assassin's Knot
E) Original games
f) AD&D 1e

>>53136888
>Is there even such a thing as an OD&D module?
Judge's Guild, baby

>>53143455
Try it

>>53126681
This is very nice, but it's kinda weirdly formatted and hard to read! I'd prefer a two column one.

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>>53143908
I think it would work well in Stonehell's two-page format. Overall map and features key on the left page (plus maybe some supplementary stuff like the power plant table), full room descriptions on the right.

Are LotFP products worth hoarding for the resale value?

I saw the Grindhouse box set in my FLGS for £30 and thought it was too expensive, then I heard on a podcast they go for over £80 on eBay.

>>53143722
Assassin's Knot is a 1e adventure.

>>53136888
>Is there even such a thing as an OD&D module?
There are a few. Mostly third-party, though. The only first-party ones are Temple of the Frog in Blackmoor and Lost Caverns of Tsojconth in its WinterCon V iteration.

>>53144097
Hmmm. Only played it with 2e. Fun

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>>53136888
>odnd module
You can convert adnd easily

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What do you think of rolling for stats, 3d6 straight down? Does you system support it, or is luck too punishing.

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>>53125174

>Roll Animals
>Roll Dire Horse

I'm ok with this.

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What do you think about evil races, like goblins and orcss, being REALLY evil, instead of "green humans with a tragic backsstory of racism."

I'm all for a good social justice, but I want stuff to kill, damnit!

There's no blog I find as consistently interesting as Goblinpunch

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>>53145174
In my world, thats where goblins come from. Orcs fester and grow in the putrifaction from large battles, especially battles which had no evil purpose.

That explains why goblins are stupid to the point of irrationality, and why orcs are evil, rampaging beasts who crave slaughter as much as any black knight.

(ps, I mean black knight as in a knight in black armor, not a black guy in armor.)

>>53145174
dude, that lantern will be a new cursed item in my campaign.

>>53145120
Been DMing for 38 years.
here is how I do it:
>have the player come over. Have food and beer waiting. Books are out
>Roll stats:
>>3d6 in order; roll three full sets of stats
>>the player may discard any set with: a 3; no stat above 8; any set where the total for 6 stats is 40 or less
>pick race; pick class.
>For hit points you may either roll randomly or take the average (rounding up)
>for starting money you can roll randomly or take the average
You still end up with characters whose stats average 11 but you're never stuck with an unplayable set of stats

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>>53145230
cool here's where I got it

>>53145174
I make them devil/demon worshippers that pass a form of curse to their progeny ON PURPOSE to ensure they grow evil.

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>>53145274
Nice

>>53145174
I've got them somewhere half in half. It's more than just a tragic backstory - it's really ingrained into their culture - but there's no reason you couldn't rehabilitate one or raise one from infancy into goodness.

It hits a good sweet spot, where killing them all isn't the sort of a martial duty, allowing you to parley on occasion, diplomance even - but if a battle does break out, you won't need to feel any bad for killing them.

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>>53143908
>>53143957
Is this any better? There's a little too much text to fit it onto two pages without it being illegibly small, unfortunately.

I also removed the "warning message" from the start of the Never Was; it's long and written in such awkward, redundant English that I'm not sure how to rephrase it.

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>>53145174

I've always been partial to beastmen. Part broo, part warhams beastmen, part whatever else you want.

They rape. Anything female and anything large enough to reproduce with. That means elf and human women for sure, but also cows, goats, sheep. Wolves and bears too, The lion and rhino beastmen are real assholes too.

Think you can stamp them out? Think again. They travel in warbands and go out to rape. There are even female ones, so you can't deny them that sweet animal pussy either. They're dumb and strong. Many are chimeric monsters; the beastman who came from a shewolf that rapes a horse will probably create a horse headed beastman with sharp teeth.

Of course, the problem with beastmen like this is you can't creates lots of different types of other monsters, and they are almost a bit TOO general, and it doesn't really explain or help make everyone hate them beyond just being extremely fertile fetish monsters.

I kind of like the idea of making beastmen in civilized society exclusively female, castrated, or gay simply because the scent of a neraby uterus makes them impossible to deal with, but that might be a little too *edgy* for people on this board at least.

>>53145624
>There are even female ones

Do these go out to rape human guys?

>>53145624
>I kind of like the idea of making beastmen in civilized society exclusively female, castrated, or gay simply because the scent of a neraby uterus makes them impossible to deal with, but that might be a little too *edgy* for people on this board at least.

Nah. It'd perfectly explain why they're so damn rare and why people prefer to kill the monsters on sight.

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>>53145673

Probably, but I would imagine they would be pregnant from the local beastmen in their tribe. Maybe a Beastwoman queen with a fetish for humans. Naturally I know you're only bringing this up because you think it's hot, but obviously the male ones are better at seeding more of their race.

>>53145699
True. I just personally love the idea of a rare duke or noble having one of these as a bodyguard, or maybe a gay one with a heart of gold that just wants to put his thick, dumb cow lips around the fighters turgid dick. Also they'd suffer some (well deserved) racist banter. Lots of fun ideas here.

>>53145822
>Naturally I know you're only bringing this up because you think it's hot

Surprisingly, not really. I'm just wondering how differently they would think as compared to men. All things considered it'd make well enough sense for them to be just as lustful.

>>53145588
Yeah it's a lil better. Stonehenge format really requires going hard with the editing knife to make the language suler concise, but I think that's an okay way to summarize what the other anons posted.

I feel the indentations could be halfed, and maybe that can move towards fitting the page 1 tablea into page 2-3? And keep page 1 just for the map?

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>>53145885

Well yeah, but realistically speaking they would be lustful AROUND other beastmen, who will already fuck anything with a functioning uterus, so why wouldn't they just get knocked up by them in the first place?

Maybe I'm just a meme, but I think having female beastmen going around in warbands "raping" human men makes them too campy to take seriously, it makes them less interesting, not more.

>>53145624
PURGE THE UNCLEAN!

>>53144041
Dick move but get that $$

>>53145965
>Maybe I'm just a meme, but I think having female beastmen going around in warbands "raping" human men makes them too campy to take seriously, it makes them less interesting, not more.

They'd have far less reason to go around, sure, but if you have a beastwoman nearby and no beastmen around and she's not pregnant, she might go a little crazy.

>>53123359
>find this comment a day later

I wasn't riffing on it dude, I just got reminded of a monster from an old as fuck RPG where the concept was literally "a haunted swarm of coins, kill it for money", and thought it was an amusing enough piece of obscure trivia that you guys would enjoy it.

Cause FF3 really doesn't have much personality to it.

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>>53146036

Sure. But she could always reproduce with like, a horse or whatever too. Same as the males. I'd imagine some kind of forced chastity belt situation or steralization of some kind for them to live among the Lawful races, so they don't reproduce and create a family of criminal rapist beastmen in the cities and towns of your civilization.

Of course, I may have been too strict with my earlier rules considering magic and religion in fantasy settings. That's always an option. Some kind of subtle enchantment that lets them control their urges or makes them sterile, or maybe they're just extremely religious converts to the Lawful God(s).

Anyway, that's quite enough about this. Though we all know the reason you're going down this line of questioning, I'll let you slide this time, you old pervert you.

>>53145624
I always find the rapist beastmen trope to be pretty boring. It makes them too human. Humans love calling other people rapists but there's no innate fear of animals raping humans. In my opinion, beastmen are good when they work like real hunter animals. Big, strong, and can kill you just because you were walking in the wrong place at the wrong time. The best weapon against them is intelligence and creativity.

>>53146180
>Though we all know the reason you're going down this line of questioning

Quite the same as the reason you'd go on about rapey beastmen, I assure you.

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>>53146270

Well, you're getting pretty close. I thought the 'turgid cock' comment would give it away.

I would hesitate to introduce any of these concepts with my players however unless I knew they could handle it. Both so they don't get "triggered" and so that I wouldn't have to deal with annoying HFY shit in the campaign. We can all agree beastmen are rapist assholes in this setting, but we don't need to murder any of the blind old monk beasts, the women, or the gay ones that work on the farm and pull plows better then the normal cows do. Just a bit of good old fashioned racial discrimination and slurs work just fine.

>when you're an adventurer and you go to a tiny fiefdom in need of assistance and they're all a bunch of beastmen walking around in clothes pretending to be civilized humans
>this nigga is their king
>pelorsfacewhen

Can you fuckers go take this rape shit somewhere else.

link w/o comment
http://odd74.proboards.com/thread/10882/chainmail-styled-wizard

Also >>53146453

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>>53146453

OSR has always been pretty edgy my dude. If you'd like a more politically correct general, feel free to follow this link.

>>53141672

>>53145174
>>53145174
>"green humans with a tragic backsstory of racism."
My orcs are terrorist pig-men who want to kill everyone because Gruumsh told them to, which isn't really tragic.

>>53146349
>>53145822
>>53145624
>gay men don't rape
You sound like either a libcuck or a gay with a very specific magical realm.

>>53146510
All the edge aside, it doesn't add much to a game, does it? There's almost no way rape doesn't come across as gratuitious - that if you removed it, nothing whatsoever would change - and, as a result of that, kind of dumb.

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>>53146529
>You sound like either a libcuck or a gay with a very specific magical realm.

Well they could be the exclusively submissive 'bottom' type of gay. The top gay/bisexual beastman would just be even more of a hated foe of humanity.

>>53146539
The discussion was about always evil/monsters you can kill without much ethical issues. I think a constantly reproducing race of rapist monsterous subhumans works, and the half animal motif lends greatly to diversity of monsters, easy characterization, and makes for a great villain one way or another.

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You guys are gay.

Post W-A-N-D-S

>>53146607
Making villains rapists is the oldest and stalest trope in the D&D fandom. You'll do a good job shocking normies but it's old hat for people into RPGs.

And you've provided absolutely zero reason for people not to go around indiscriminately killing every gay cripple agender elderly beastman they see so your idea is shit on two fronts, much as your analogies are.

>>53146669
I thought those were q-tips from the thumbnail.

Good for casting spells with earwax candles I suppose.

>>53146510
>The degenerate magical realm that is /pfg/ being "Politically correct" and not edgy.

>>53145624
>extremely fertile
Spin it the other way.
Low chance of impregnation compensated by their many attempts.

>>53145267
I've had Wonders & Wickedness sitting on my hard drive for a while now but never actually bothered to read it until now. This is some bretty gud shit.

>>53147310
Typically fertility and lust go hand in hand. Elves and dwarves reproduce slowly and also don't much care about such attempts at all, while goblins are both really fertile and fuck around all the time.

>>53146607
>the exclusively submissive type
You get those with straight people, too.

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How do you run Dark Tower?

I mean I love the premise and the maps and the atmosphere, but what's the point with putting kobolds and shit on the first level when the party would have to be around level 10 to stand a chance with the dungeon at all?

>>53148000
>kobolds and shit

RP and local colour.

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Well this thread took a nosedive...

>>53142165
>How do you handle investigation in your games /osrg/?

It's not a major part of my games. Knowledge emerges through gameplay and discovery by choice, not by making an Int roll in a library. OSR games aren't really designed around investigation structures. They're trying to do different things.

>>53142622
Oooh, good point.

>>53143455
>Would this work in an OSR system?
Sure, seems sensible.

>>53145186
> There's no blog I find as consistently interesting as Goblinpunch

It's always top-shelf stuff.

>>53146539
>All the edge aside, it doesn't add much to a game, does it?

Agreed. My question would be "why"? If a GM explained this to me, I'd think, "clearly, this is either their fetish, or they are trying and failing to work in some other theme".

I mean... how would the players even discover this info without it coming across as /really/ magical realm? Infodump? Kidnapping? No matter how you look at it, people are going to raise eyebrows at your table and go "ok dude, what about it?"

You might want to look into... other websites entirely, if this is where you're getting your RP jollies.

>>53146669
Archaen chromium wand. 5 charges remaining. 30' range. Coats 1 target in a 1" layer of chrome.

>>53148902
>I mean... how would the players even discover this info without it coming across as /really/ magical realm? Infodump? Kidnapping? No matter how you look at it, people are going to raise eyebrows at your table and go "ok dude, what about it?"

Personally I handle rape as something that -might- have happened but is never shoved at anyone's face. Like the party might find some captive women in an ogre lair that they could rescue and take back to civilization, and unless they start asking for more details, that'd be the end of it.

And frankly, someone being like "Did they rape you?" is kind of a dick thing to ask and probably wouldn't make any difference to anything anyway.

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https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/05/osr-dont-you-know-theres-war-on.html

Is there a War in your setting? If not, why?

If so, maybe these tables and ideas will be helpful.

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>>53148972
>And frankly, someone being like "Did they rape you?" is kind of a dick thing to ask and probably wouldn't make any difference to anything anyway.

It's also amazingly unmedieval. It's... not a question you really ask. If it could have happened, there are 2 possibilities. The perception that it /could/ have happened is enough for people to take steps accordingly (call of diplomatic marriages, raise armies, burn monster strongholds) or it doesn't matter. The reasons are split along class lines. If the person is important, everyone assumes the worst and acts accordingly. If they're not, nobody cares either way (except immediate family but again, who cares?). There's no need to ask.

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>>53146196 Then take it in the opposite direction.
Beastmen, visibly far more beast than man, are the infertile product of bestiality.
You can often find large families of them near creepy hermits, but hordes only turn up around cults.

>>53143455
I can't see how that would actually function. Barring circumstances where you need the enemy to rush forward in order to be in range or something, it seems like it's always going to be to your advantage to have all your team go before the enemies.

>it isn't always the best idea to just let the rest of the players move immediately, because that would result in the monsters attacking en masse.
But if you let the enemy go sooner, they will still attack en masse, only, you know, sooner... before everybody on your team has had a chance to go.

So as far as I can tell, this is basically team initiative with the option to pass the ball if you really need to. Except for the guy who goes first, who has to act? Unless he can hold his turn, but at the point people can hold their turns, you're down to team initiative where (only) folks on the team that goes first can hold their turns. Not that there's anything wrong with this, mind you, but the term "popcorn initiative" seems to imply something more... different.

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>>53149250
"This is why you don't fuck sheep, son."

Makes a twisted kind of sense. Cultural taboos exist for a reason.

>>53146510
There's a difference between ragar style edginess and just stupid neckbeard fetish shit that doesn't add anything to the actual game you play with your friends that also have lives outside of gaming.

>>53150294
>D8 random cultural taboos, for weird humanoids, podunk dirt farmers and inbred nobles
>1. Do not drink liquids while eating a meal after sunset, that is how demons get in.
>2. No monocrome clothing on men. It makes them too emotional.
>3. Potted plants left outside after dark must be burned as soon as possible to release trapped starlight.
>4. Handling two different types of domestic animal in one day is forbidden to prevent mutation.
>5. Corpses must not be buried facing the rising sun to prevent solar undead.
>6. No marrying of siblings unless the father, mother and all other siblings are deceased.
>7. No burnt offerings except on islands in case the offering is offensive. It will be contained by the water.
>8. Uncovered and unused iron will be confiscated and thrown off the bridge. Religious weavers creating markets for their wares.

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>>53150906
>>3. Potted plants left outside after dark must be burned as soon as possible to release trapped starlight.

That seem... quite impractical. Satur has a better solution.

>>53151040
I was more thinking to keep the plants from turning into lovecraftian horrors from that one time when Angus left his geraniums outside and the stars were right.

Made me think of communities with large indoor greenhouses with blessed/stained glass to prevent starspawn weirdness and a local force of zealots who go around inspecting crops that have to be outside for taint. Burning what they find. I'd call them the Scarecrows.

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I know a lot of people don't like the author's writing style for pretty good reason, but I'm so hyped for AS&SH 2e that I can hardly contain myself. The copious amounts of Robert E. Howard and Clark Ashton Smith I've been reading haven't helped matters.

>>53151040
Satur seems pretty fun tho. Like it would have a following of aggressively expansionist farmers.

How should GMs allow players to map dungeon progress? Asking them to draw it based on your descriptions seems a little clunky.

>>53151322
I use dynamic lighting in my Roll20 maps, which pretty much makes the whole thing null.

The players can see what their party can see, after all. Most of the time getting lost isn't much of a possibility in that case - which in turn means that not being able to see what your party sees, and having to draw it based on DM's descriptions, actually makes shit far more difficult than it should be.

>>53151322

See the example of play from OD&D.

>>53151322
I don't ask them to make a map, but I suggest it. Gives them another thing to do, argue over, make notes on, stuff like that. Then you can compare maps later, its fun.

Its a weird meshing of player skill and character knowledge but that doesn't seem to bug me or my group. If you wanted to you could take a look every now and then, get the mapper character to make an int roll under, or a dungeonering skill roll etc. and give them hints/fix up their map if they succeed.

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>>53151162
First, the default pseudo-medieval D&D setting doesn't have a lot of flowerpots. Too much subsistence farming. Now if they were farming cucumbers or something, it's less of an issue. True fact. Big wheeled carts full of cucumber plants go out during the day and come inside at night. Cucumbers year round.

Greenhouses existed but they were rare and used mostly for curiosities.

Anyway, it's evocative and interesting if we can figure out a way to phrase it so that crops aren't covered. Maybe "flowering plants"?

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Do you like more 'normal' fantasy settings or more crazy weird gonzo settings?

High fantasy? High magic? Low fantasy? Low magic?

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>>53151322
I ask them to map it, but I also use a very straightforward design system that allows for quick mapping.

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>>53151533
My players asked for a normal setting, so that's what they're getting. Medium magic, low fantasy, medium but consistent and predictable weirdness.

>>53151533
Low fantasy, low magic, mostly normal but with a bit of gonzo here and there. It's the best way to have both gonzo and magic feel special and weird whenever they show up, rather than being diluted and losing their effectiveness.

>>53151527
I tend not to worry about keeping too close to medieval orientation, its pretty much borked from the get go demographically, gp, monster diets, etc.

The entire crop by acres or in huge rows with slave galleys wheeling them inside cathedral greenhouses seems neat to me. But yeah, if you want to go more towards realism, flowering plants, or maybe just non-edible plants. As a way to keep people from having too many leisure/hobby plants and distracting them from proper consumable Saturian farming.

>>53151533
Shit gets pretty weird in our games, more scifantasy cosmic pulp mashed into post apocalyptic grit.

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>>53151576
This 100%

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>>53151698
>I tend not to worry about keeping too close to medieval orientation, its pretty much borked from the get go demographically, gp, monster diets, etc.

Oh yeah, if you're running things by any of the older books, it's not really medieval at all. Ah well.

>The entire crop by acres or in huge rows with slave galleys wheeling them inside cathedral greenhouses seems neat to me.

This I can get behind. I might add it to my Garden Wizard class.

>>53151359
THAT ISN'T THE QUESTION. That's nice and all but for fucks sake, don't answer someone's legit question with "well I do it in a completely different way"

>>53151555
I agree to this, it gives it a more board gamey feel that I enjoy. The map gives you something central to put your focus to.

>>53152039
The question was how to map the dungeon progress, was it not? How does that not answer it?

>>53152039
You okay?

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>>53152053
It also makes the place feel more "real".

Plus, if it's completely dark, you can hide the map. Find your way out now, bitches.

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>>53151907
>Garden Wizard
Tell me that it has veggie-golems.

>>53151533
Started as ultra-normal and turned pretty gonzo as it went.

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>>53152367
Well, they didn't before...

They're more about macrolandscaping and trees, as I've got them now. A little bit of damage, a little bit of mental stuff, but most of it's focused around sleeping/waking things.

>>53145327
>I've got them somewhere half in half. It's more than just a tragic backstory - it's really ingrained into their culture - but there's no reason you couldn't rehabilitate one or raise one from infancy into goodness.
>It hits a good sweet spot, where killing them all isn't the sort of a martial duty, allowing you to parley on occasion, diplomance even - but if a battle does break out, you won't need to feel any bad for killing them.
yeah that's how it is in most of my settings as well, they aren't inherently evil, but through a combination of instincts(much more aggresive, territorial, and predatory than humans), and the fact that many of the Beastmen cultures are toxic ones, is why there's so much conflict between them and the Human & Demi-Human cultures

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>>53151164
yeah I'm pretty excited for it too

New to OSR here, and I was thinking of trying out The Black Hack (or some variation of it). I was just wondering if anyone has the GM screen as a pdf? I know it's cheap, but I want to try stuff out before I buy them.

Is DESU a good choice for a first time OSR GM? Is it a good choice at all? I've read through it and I like it so far, but I have no idea about what's out there either

>>53152669
wait, it changes t+b+h to DESU? I've been on this board for years and I didn't know that

Does anyone else think Veins of the Earth is really overrated?

>>53152762
It's a pretty recent thing.

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>>53152791

No, anon, just you.

>>53152762

It's been a thing for about a year now, with s-m-h family t-b-h having been an annoying meme, they filtered it to be baka senpai desu

>>53152669
>>53152762
Weebmoot changed it when he took over.

The Black Hack was the new hotness for a bit. I've only looked at it. Things I liked were armour decreasing over the fight and some of the dice mechanics for resource management. Makes more sense for things like torches that have less predictable lifespans than things like arrows which you can count imo. It uses roll under stats for skill checks, which makes some people upset, doesn't bother others. There's a lot of content which can be cool but also means there's a lot to sift through to find anything good. Its looks really easy to set up, but most osr is, but it has contemporary indi design so it might just mesh better for people who like it.

I'd advise taking a look at the various primers and handbooks for osr, I think there's at least three of them that have a variety of opinions on how to do shit, but give an overall decent impression of how to run games.

glfh

>>53152834
>>53152801
Ah, I see. Thanks

>>53152911
Thanks a lot!

I was thinking about doing an adventure like this:

Low level party is out on the wilderness and finds in a basin the aftermath of a bloody skirmish after a trading deal got totally wrong.

They find small chest with a valuable treasure and go away with it.

Meanwhile, a dark oath paladin is pursuing the party because he's tasked by some unnamed character to get back the treasure.

Basically i want to do D&D no country for old men.

i'm open to advice/suggestions

>>53150906
>No marrying of siblings unless the father, mother and all other siblings are deceased.
>>>/a/

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>>53152791
I thought that it might be hype going in, but after reading, it really is that good. Almost everything is gameable. Almost everything makes me want to put it in an adventure.

Some of the stuff (3D hexmap caves, the treasure of the civilopede) aren't up my alley but that's OK. I can see how they'd be ideal for other types of gamers.

are there any 2e retroclones?

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>>53151322
Pretend you're a newspaper journalist.

If a better scoop comes out, the end of you article may get truncated to save space.
Even more importantly, you audience can and will lose interest part way through.

So front-load all details by importance.
Room dimensions will usually be your second sentence, or your first for hallways and "empty" rooms.

>>53151389
You are unable to convince me Gygax was that robotic.
It *does* demonstrate room dimensions, but it's not a good example.
While we're on the topic, plugging:>>52963109 >>52964012 >>52964063

>>53151492
>Gives them another thing to do, argue over, make notes on, stuff like that.
In this vein, larger groups can have multiple mappers.
Bonus points, it muffles the consequences of a map getting destroyed or a mapper dying.

>>53152911
>Makes more sense for things like torches that have less predictable lifespans than things like arrows which you can count imo.
Not sure exactly what is was going for, but do remember that combat is abstract. An attack roll isn't an attack, it's an aggregate minute of attacks.
You probably don't use one arrow per minute, and you certainly don't use the same number from one minute to the next.

You *could* keep track and roll to see how many arrows you use each minute, but that doesn't feel real and the system already has a usage die mechanic.

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Any comments on my chromatic dragons? I know dragons are done to death, but you can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat.
>>53141808
>>53141815
>>53141826
>>53141839
>>53141851
>>53141858
>>53141866
>>53141874
>>53141879

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How do you present an adventure hook without it being railroading?

The PCs had been hexcrawling for a while until I had them run into an NPC they had ties to who asked them to go to X town for him and complete Y adventure. It seemed like the PCs felt obligated to pick up the hook - and thus felt like the most railroading I've done in my game in a long time.

Probably a lot of you guys solely run megadungeons or one-offs, but in the case that anyone has a long-term campaign, how do you insert hooks without the PCs feeling obligated to bite?

>>53153826
So long as the PCs would be motivated to go ahead and grab that hook, I don't see a problem. Just don't do it all the time.

>>53153807
I think a lot of the information you gave us depends on how your world looks. Is this information readily available to your players? If so, how do they find it out? Will they encounter every sort of dragon in your campaign? Are dragons commonplace?

The information you have is good and there's a good amount of distinction between all the types, but it's more about the presentation of the information than anything else. If the players encounter maybe two dragons throughout the campaign, making them slightly different in a few key ways, like you have in your description, will be fun and make it seem like you're not running a stat block. If they meet dozens of dragons, your players eyes will eventually glaze over ("which one was the one that bites limbs off knights again? red or black? or was it white?") and you should therefore focus your efforts on making every dragon distinct/roleplay them all differently, like you would an NPC, rather than trying to create eight different archetypes.

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>>53153826
>How do you present an adventure hook without it being railroading?

Make it appealing to the players. Make it easy for them to feel like they've pulled a fast one on you.

NPC asks the players to go to X town and do Y thing? Make it really obvious that they could do /Z/ thing instead and get paid twice. Or that they could go to Z town and pretend they did the thing in Y town. Or that they could acomplish another goal at the same time (sell items, meet nobles, steal treasure) in Y town.

Most of the time though my players are generating their own goals by the dozen.

>>53153826
IMO just giving an adventure hook isn't railroading.

Saying "Your friend needs you to get something from the temple of Blah blah, and they'll be in trouble if you don't" is not the same thing as "You can only go to the temple of blah blah, and I will fight anything else you try as hard as I can"

>>53153948
I guess it just seemed like the players were thinking "well, we've been wandering for a while, but I guess now the DM wants us to do this thing, so we may as well do it",

I think like >>53153906 said I just need to focus on making the options extensive enough that one hook is as good as the next.

>>53153984
Whoops, quoted wrong post, meant to quote >>53153917

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>>53153826
man Mullen does the best art

>>53153807
I'm a bit confused by the "elemental alliance" and by some of the details in >>53141808.
I'd been under the impression Dragons came from outside the Authority's sphere of influence?

I like that only the Orange Dragons all shape-shift, and I like that the shape-shifting dragons use magic,
but that they shape-shift without magic rubs me the wrong way.
Do they like, fold in on them selves and flare out membranes of imitation-skin?

It's also weird that 6 of the dragons collect people.
Individual eccentrics aside, 3 groups that collect slaves is pushing it.

All in all, your Green Dragons are my favorite.

So I'm new to OSR, and I'm a little confused about 2e. As I understood, low AC was still good in 2e? It doesn't seem that way, with the core book. I was also led to believe that Wizards got not nearly as many spells a day. I apparently was being mislead. Either that, or I'm reading the wrong book.

>>53154051
I wish I'd been able to get some of those sicc prints he made before all the best ones sold out

>>53154157
>Either that, or I'm reading the wrong book.
Take a picture of your cover.

>As I understood, low AC was still good in 2e?
10 is the worst, -10 is the best.
>I was also led to believe that Wizards got not nearly as many spells a day.
High level wizards are rolling in spells. Low level wizards are poverty.

Do y'all use notebook-sized grid paper for the maps? Or do y'all draw your maps on those bigger easel-sized grid papers?

Or do you use something else?

>>53154236
Internet is full of already prepared maps, I don't really need to add to them with my shitty scribbles.

>>53154236
Isometric paper.

Which Leiber and Moorcock books should I start out with? I haven't read anything by them.

>>53154298
The first Corum trilogy is pretty great.

>>53153509
For Gold & Glory

>>53154157
>>53154157
>low AC was still good in 2e
Yes, AC 0 is better than AC 10

>I was also led to believe that Wizards got not nearly as many spells a day.
2e wizards don't get bonus spells like 3e wizards do. Spell progression is also slower overall - 2e wizards get less higher-level spells slots after 10th level but more lower-level slots. And 2e wizards only automatically learn spells at 1st level chargen, everything after that is up the whim of the DM/dice.

>>53154316
>2e wizards don't get bonus spells like 3e wizards do
>And 2e wizards only automatically learn spells at 1st level chargen, everything after that is up the whim of the DM/dice

Well, unless you're a specialist.

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>>53154229
Here it is. This is the closest to a cover I have.

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>>53153906
> Is this information readily available to your players? If so, how do they find it out?

Traditionally, 2 methods.

1. Dragons live for a long time, and they aren't all murderous monsters. People in the area might know about them and their habits, just like they'll know and name a persistent storm or a valley. They might not know the weakness of a dragon, but they might know that Jeskalon the Yellow once leveled the city of Astacour with concentrated breath-cannons for not paying their debts.
2. A Dr. Van Helsing, devoted to slaying/bedding/serving/learning from dragons.
3. Knights love this stuff and write long, inaccurate poems about slaying dragons. All knights know the 7 common dragon colours, their elemental alliances, and their core disposition.... though not always accurately.

>Will they encounter every sort of dragon in your campaign? Are dragons commonplace?

Unlikely, but I'm planning on reusing this setting for a while. They might meet one or two, and probably not in combat (initially). The dragons will be distinct and unique but the article gives me a basis to start from... and a good crib sheet if I need to suddenly introduce one for some reason.

>>53154122
>I'd been under the impression Dragons came from outside the Authority's sphere of influence?

Nope. He created them, but since He can't change his own Laws, and He was less cautious in the early days of Creation, He often had to find ways to unravel or change his old mistakes. It's why He invented volcanoes (to bury the trolls).

>but that they shape-shift without magic rubs me the wrong way.

Sorry, I should be more clear. Dragons /are/ magical in the same way that unicorns and angels are magical. They have biologie (hearts, lungs, etc) but much like with people, they don't actually need them that much.

cont'd

>>53154402
That'd be 1e, in fact.

Although I don't think the answers to any of your questions would much change with reading the actual 2e: the two are quite similar.

>>53154429
Okay, what the hell. Okay, so I got an entire edition behind? Where can I find the actual one I want, since apparently the trove is lying to me?

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>>53154422
In the real world, the meat supports the mind. In Creation it's the other way around. Your soul/essence is more or less a spell. It lives in your body. Much like you can still drive a car with 4 flat tires and no windows, a powerful soul can keep driving the body around for years. That's how you get vampires, mummies, wights, etc.

Some dragons might learn to cast spells, which involves turning their brains into mind-guns that shoot bullet-ferret spells. But all of them are innately magical. The Orange Dragons shapechange with magic, but it's magic like rust monsters corroding metal or your stomach generating acid elementals.

>It's also weird that 6 of the dragons collect people.

The hoards are just examples. Plus, some of them pay for their people or invite them as guests. They aren't all captives.

>>53154443
08_TSR --> 04 AD&D 2nd Edition --> Rulebooks

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>>53154236
Notebook size graph paper for drafts, microsoft powerpoint for fancy images.

i know isn't exactly /tg/ related, but which D&D game is the most relatable to the OSR experience? Eye of the Beholder?

>>53154356
>giving up an entire school of magic just to marginally better at another

lol what a nerd

>>53154486
>http://pastebin.com/QWyBuJxd
Thanks, based anon.

>>53154540
>but which D&D game is the most relatable to the OSR experience?
You've barked up the wrong tree, >>>/vg/rlg/

>>53154546
>Double the spells at first level
>marginally better

>>53154540
Nethack, Angband, and Darkest Dungeon.

so I'm currently bidding on a lot of old TSR stuff on eBay(not going to link it), about ~20 books for pretty cheap(current bid is at just under 50 bucks), including most of AD&D 1E's main books(minus Manual of The Planes, and the two Survival Guides) and a bunch of adventures

so in order to finance this I'm selling some junk I've got lying around to Noble Knight, mostly Shadowrun(4e/20th Anniversary) and Star Wars d20/SAGA stuff(plus the corebook for Marvel Heroic RPG), their appraisal is $100 cash plus any shipping costs for the whole bundle(so about 10 bucks per book), is this a good deal?

>>53154616
>>53154616
>SAGA
Star Wars Saga or Dragonlance SAGA? Because the Star Wars stuff is pretty valuable now.

>>53154920
former, the books I'm selling for that one are the core book and Threats of The Galaxy

>>53155184
>the core book
I'm pretty sure that sells for $60-80 by itself. This is really the kind of research you should be doing yourself instead of asking random strangers on the internet.

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>>53155184
>>53154616
>>53155294
>This is really the kind of research you should be doing yourself instead of asking random strangers on the internet.

In an OSR thread as well, you lazy broke fuck. Come on. You're not doing yourself any favours. Maybe if you sell your books you can buy yourself a shift key and some more punctuation.

>>53152791
It's very good, and that's coming from someone who's pretty dismissive of the LotFP lineup as a whole. It has the right balance between weirdness and actually usable material while being blessedly free of the usual Raggi/Zak S. shenannigans.

>>53154402
That's Chris Perkins' house rules.

https://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/66974/advanced-dungeons-dragons-3rd-edition-players-hand

>>53155294
>I'm pretty sure that sells for $60-80 by itself. This is really the kind of research you should be doing yourself instead of asking random strangers on the internet.
eh what research I've done has been inconsistent as hell, that's why I brought it up

>>53155357
>In an OSR thread as well
I brought it up because it's going towards funding me buying OSR relevant stuff

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>>53155429
>I brought it up because it's going towards funding me buying OSR relevant stuff
So does your job, but I've noticed you haven't brought up sucking dick behind the local truck stop.

what do you think its the best OSR book for people who haven't played an RPG ever? S&W, LL or B/X?

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>>53155484
I ended up using Arnold K's GLOG homebrew and it works pretty well. Between those 3, I'd say B/X, but bear in mind that with new people it's more about presentation and teaching than it is about the system.

>>53155484
ACKs™, it's based on B/X (best edition for beginners) and has tons of interesting things

kbalanera is my Skype if anyone is interested in an old school game next week.

>>53155385
>while being blessedly free of the usual Raggi/Zak S. shenannigans.
That's because Patrick "based" Stuart was the only one involved.

>>53155357
Yo... Skerples...
I can appreciate the irony of my own post, but the worst posts on 4chan are complaints about bad posts.

>>53155528
>Arnold K's GLOG
Elaborate, I never heard of this...

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>>53155562
The Goblin Laws of Gaming
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-glog.html
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/search/label/glog

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>>53155562
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2016/05/the-glog.html

You can read my review of it here:
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-glog-review.html

Pros: short, clearly made with love, neat classes, immensely hackable, easy to teach, intutive for new players

Cons: Roll-under system infuriates some people, system is a little disorganized

All the other stuff on my blog is designed for the GLOG system, if that's useful.

>>53155357
>>53155474
Why so triggered? Is it because we didn't like your dumb beastmen?

>>53155429
>eh what research I've done has been inconsistent as hell, that's why I brought it up
I'd need more specifics on conditions, items, etc, but it sounds like you might not be getting your money's worth.

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>>53155614
Completely different person (thank god!). I just don't like people who don't do their research and come into these threads with simple questions. It's a frustrating modern trend. The internet has brought everyone together, and it's so much easier to ask for answers than to search for them yourself. People asking how to change tires on car youtube channels. People asking how to price ebay items. People asking and asking and asking and not returning anything.

>>53141808
>> The stones remember it
I really liked this line, mainly because it implies you can talk to stones in your setting.

>>Common Hoards: Swords, Shields, Corpses, Coal, Crippled Knights
That's the most metal hoard a dragon could ever have.

>>breath rays of pure heat, invisible and utterly deadly.
How would you (as a DM) communicate this to PC's?

>>lets them fly through stone as if it were water
Jesus Christ how horrifying

>>Some breathe sand or cannonballs of stone
I stand corrected that's way more horrifying.

>> building wooden cities in the cold and sunless depths
That's dope as hell. Are they any good at it or is it some crude mockery of an actual city?

Now what kind of stats do these things have?

>>53155594
>The version I wrote is called Spiked Goblin Punch, and it steals ideas from all over the place. I might eventually put it up as a PDF

please do this

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>>53155674
>you can talk to stones in your setting.
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-what-does-elemental-want.html

>>53155674
>How would you (as a DM) communicate this to PC's?
Not Skerples, but I'm vaguely reminded of Save the World in 80 Days.
The dragons in that emitted out microwave radiation.

>>53155669
I could see >>53155474 being someone else, but not >>53155357.

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>>53155739
Oy vey, I haven't looked into editing it for mass consumption in months. Let me see what I can do. Won't be quick though.

>>53155674
>I really liked this line, mainly because it implies you can talk to stones in your setting.

Absolutely you can. https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-what-does-elemental-want.html

>How would you (as a DM) communicate this to PC's?

Same as any other breath weapon, really. If the PCs are fighting a dragon they're going to assume front end = death end.

"The dragon opens its mouth and your skin crinkles in the heat. It's like walking in front of a furnace. The air shimmers and your lungs hurt. It's not fire, just heat. You're going to take damage, but you can Save for half if you fling yourself out of the way.

>Jesus Christ how horrifying

Yup. And you thought you had it cornered...

>I stand corrected that's way more horrifying.

Bear in mind that dragons also have pretty good eyesight. The first warning of a yellow dragon attack might be your hireling vaporizing when a cannonball hits them from a mile away. Another dragon might breathe a sandstorm around you and lead you off a cliff or into its jaws.

>That's dope as hell. Are they any good at it or is it some crude mockery of an actual city?

Depends on the dragon, I suppose. Some of them build dioramas. Some of them just like ships with pretty sails. Some like to take them apart and taste the cargo, looking for delicious bits. The deep dragons are covered in isopods and worms, their little court of helpers.