Shadow Wars: Armageddon General/swag/:

Fürst..

Holy crap I got worried when I showed up and there was no SWA. I thought it had gone out of style.Or GW had already dropped it.

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Anyone using Necromunda gangs to fight Kill Teams? Its a lot of fun and the gangers are pretty competitive.

>>53072897
So I know it's 4chan but even I thought we were better than that level of retardation.

In any event, I agree with OP on the GSC units, but only in the event that GW actually releases the Abberant kits so I'm not spending 30$ friggin dollars on 4 dudes. I completely fucked up not grabbing those guys for 12$ last March.

Anyway, other units

>Tau
-Kroot, obviously (or give them their own faction, whichever works)
-Vespid, they got all the urban terrain rules already, good mobility
- Battlesuit hardcapped at 1.
- Firewarriors/Breachers because what the hell were they thinking

>Eldar
-Rangers
- Warp Spiders just because that would be really fun to play
-Spiritseer since we already have Wraithguard/blades.

>CSM
-Obliterators so my Iron Warriors can go maximum siege warfare.
-Heretek. He could buff ammo rolls or supply alternative rounds, I dunno.

>Inquisition
- Even more gear
- Even more, even weirder gear.

>Necrons
- Flayed Ones, maybe here they won't suck.
- Wraiths because they were made to terrorize SWA
- Trayzn as a 1-man KT like Marbo or an Eversor who excels in trolling the living fuck out of your opponent.

>>53072868
GSC should have acolytes rolled into their default roster with metamorphs as the acolyte specialist.

Then have magus and aberrant as special operatives.

Also patriarch as a lone operative.

>>53072910
It's being overshadowed by 8th edition ravings.

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>>53072868
Chaos Space Marines, Alpha Legion. All marines have undivided for +1 Ld.

Aspiring Champion: Plasma Pistol

Chaos Gunner: Autocannon, Photovisor

Chaos Gunner: Plasma gun, reload

Chaos Cultist: Autogun

Chaos Cultist: Autogun

Chaos Cultist: Autogun
Goal is to get a couple of bolter marines early on then start pumping points into giving them all laser sights, camo, etc. Will play the cultists fast and loose. If they die, they die. If they live, awesome, they're around for next game. As campaign goes on I'll probably get more and more ballsy with them as I try to just let them die to make room instead of having to retire them (don't want the lower ranks getting all uppity and thinking he can start his own band elsewhere) break tests won't really effect me much as I have LD 10 on the leader and LD 9 on the regular guys, so I can afford to be really aggressive with the cultists and brave bottle tests if need be.

Really torn on the Aspiring champion though. I really don't think I should be throwing these guys into melee, but we get a big benefit to killing enemy leaders in combat and we do get some nice close combat gear. If I did spec him for close combat, what would I even give him? Plasma pistol/fist or plasma pistol/power sword? I honestly just want to give him a scoped bolter and call it a day, but it feels like a bit of a waste to keep a model that is potentially that powerful sitting in the back.

Lictors were made for this game.

So, how are wyches now that the game has been out? I got caught up in the hype and forgot that people might have actually played them.

>>53073516

Haven't played them myself but we have a league going on here and they are kicking ass.

honestly, i think the call of the prometheum sprawl rules should be more of a thing, like it'd be super easy to use it to make, for example, a commissar or tempestor prime your team leader for a guard team. 15 points for each characteristic advance, 25 for each skill. call the commissar's fear me but follow a skill or have it replace voice of command completely if it's your leader or something. wham bang zoom, commissar leader for +30 points if replacing voice of command, +55p if not. wanna attach a commissar, upgrade a veteran guardsman trooper to commissar profile, pay for fear me but follow as a skill, +85p (and bending the rules slightly by upgrading LD twice, but that's not that big of a deal in this specific case).

>>53073552

What's the general layout? Are poison chain hooks as good as they look? I was probably going to have a whole team of poison hooks, pistols, and one or two Shardnets

>>53073573

The guy running the has been putting chain hooks with venom on the normal mooks and Shardnets on the leader and specialists.

>>53073621
also, reading the gladiator weapons rules... looks like you can carry other things (like a blast pistol on the leader) you just can't mix your pistol and the gladiator weapons when doing close combat. is how it reads to me

>>53073621

That sounds about right. Shardnets are brutal, and i was going to use them in my 40k games anyway. He use pistols?

>>53073643

Yea, that's how they are in normal 40k, too. Honestly though, GW dropped the ball here. The only gladiator weapon that Venom Hooks don't trump in virtually every way possible is the Shardnet + Impailer.

>>53073643

That has been the general consensus here as well.

>>53073665

I'm not really sure. I haven't seen him use them at least.

>>53073707

Damn. Oh well, I'm 90% certain my draft list included them anyway just because they're useful. I basically traded a single model to give my whole team pistols

One of players in my LGS made a good point yesterday:
does weapon with S that doubles T of target, gets instant death rule (like in 40k), or it works just like any other target?

>>53073665
The rend 3 has to be a typo.

>>53073788
It qualifies for high impact I think.

>>53073795

It might be. I don't know.

It works like any other target. Granted S7+ does count as high impact and causes models to be taken out of action on a five or a six. But there are no rules for instant death... yet.

>>53073788
No, there is no instant death in this game.

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Any of you guys fluffed out your warbands yet?

These gentlemen are Inquisitorial initiates, former Armageddon Ash Waste Militiamen who've been seconded by my unnamed Inquisitor for use as meatshields.

My Inquisitor is part of an Ordo Xenos taskforce to defeat the Greenskin menace, but he has a secret agenda to find out the origins of planet Armageddon.

>>53074291
Why does he have an Abaddon-style topknot on his helmet?

>>53074369

Ork top-knot taken as a trophy.

>>53074402
So it's literally a flesh-eating squig, forced to gnaw eternally on an armor plate? That's cruel. I can dig it.

There's a SWA campaign at my FLGS that I'm thinking of joining. I want to make a Craftworld Eldar Kill Team but I'm not really sure what to go with. Should I pick up a heavy weapon or fill the field with Guardians? Melee or Ranged? Any advice from other Eldar KT players?

>>53074402
>ripped a hair squig out of an ork's head and stuck it onto his helmet

nice

>>53074291
I'm the kind of guy who loves letting the unit write it's own stories, but that's because I'm a guard player at heart. Honestly surviving from mission to mission is an achievement.

I am working on a bit of a fluff idea for my Nid and chaos teams though, at least to justify them being around Armageddon.

Nids it makes sense that some kooky black market trader smuggled them in as pets for some crazy ass noble. Nids escape and decide to get to work on luring the swarm to a planet absolutely teeming with biomass.

As for my chaos team, they're an alpha legion kill team. I could honestly say they're here to steal some hive ganger's lunch money so he goes postal and kills the planetary governor's janitor so he's 2 seconds late to his office and it would work.

anyone uses cawdor gangers as inqusition acolytes ?

>>53074508
>>53074434

Cheers, if I was better with GS I'd make it more squiglike.

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>>53074291
I'm reading up on the rules still, so the fluff for most of my warbands is going to have to wait till I figure it all out. But I do know the fluff for my 'nids...

We were underground all along!

>>53072868
Rule link doesnt work. It tells me that the encryption key is wrong.
What the hel

>>53073123
one thing you dont understand retatred american fuuk is that this game is supposed to be small NON elite squad with few exceptions (GK - Harlies and so on) Adding thing like obliterator - warp spiders and so on is just a way of reducing the size of warband in question or gimping rules for those models. I know that brain raised on humbugazz cannot understand that but pleas bluewhale yourself ...

>>53074291
>Any of you guys fluffed out your warbands yet?

Not really, but my warband is gaining fluff the more i play it

>sniper gets 3 plasma shot in the face and gets kicked out of the game
>roll a 6, he gains fear
>he's probably burned and a good bit of the gas mask has melted on his face turning him into the ig equivalent of darth vader

>>53074291
>>53074508
Guard mould lines guy here. My team where originally deployed in the forrested area outside hive Acheron on recon duty, hence the forest camo pattern on their fatigues. Upon returning with intel they recieved a new assignment in the innards of the hive.

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>>53075495
Is this some epic level trolling? Is Ivan becoming an even bigger faggot than usual?

>>53076757
He seems to have decided that the best response to a bad post is a worse post and really went all out.

>>53075754
>camouflage not just a logistics fuck up
Come on now.

>>53076940

No it's still a fuck-up. Outside of Hive Acheron is Desert.

>>53076940
Well, they're veterans and recon troops so why can't they requisition special equipment?

>>53076975
Not everywhere. Read the fluff and look at the map in the rulebook.

https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ShadowWarArmFAQMay2017.pdf

New Faq up

>harlequin cannot go through wall, but can jump up ladder.

>Pistol Melee clarification for retards that keep asking.


Like some questions are literally for retards. I.e Can i spend more than 1 PC for resupply despite the fucking rule said you can only spend 1.

>>53073123
An Oblit would make a pretty neat IW special operative. I'm sure it would be fine in casual games if you up the promethium cost to 2.

>>53079084
Finally.

>>53079084
>Necron are unliving.

>Tyranid with 4 bonesword get 4 parries!!!!!!

>Devourer are 40 pts and still fucking useless.

>Ravener are now 3 wound, RIP Sniper team,

>Plasma pistol melee cannot use maximum profile.

>>53079157
Eat a dick, "two bone swords takes up four arms" faggots.

>>53079157
>devourers
More options are never useless... That extra 5 points might be the difference one time in a million

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>>53079315
>Two bone sword and bone sword and lash whip get 3 parries.

>2 bonesword make up 4 arms.

>>53079359
People were arguing that using two bone swords meant you couldn't use other melee weapons because people are waac bitchmuffins. Because "pair of talons" couts as one weapon but "pair of bone swords" counts as two.

Those sad retards just got told.

>>53079388
Inb4
>My interpretation is better. The FAQ is wrong

>FAQ still didn't address that Drones don't ignore difficult ground, take fall damage, and must take fear tests

>>53079563
>playing Tau

>>53079629
I wish people would spam them more with "Should Tau weapon have 8+ ammo roll" so they include it in the Faq with a fix or just tell people to fuck off. That's the kind of retard question i want them to answer.

As long as they are writing a rules FAQ I have a doozy they can deal with:

On page 31 and 32, To shoot a ranged weapon the player performs a "To Hit Roll" of a d6 and consults the chart to see if you hit. The next section lists some Hit Modifiers based on cover and running etc. However the rules nowhere explicitly state that you apply hit modifiers to anything. Therefore the Hit Modifiers exists but are never used in the game, rules as written you roll a d6 you only use BS and consult the chart. Running/cover/range penalties etc. do nothing.

>>53080063
Fuck you, autist.

>>53080358
No, he's bringing up a legitimate concern. That concern is "How does this poster survive daily life?"

He's the reason we can't have nice things.

>>53079157
>Devourer are 40 pts and still fucking useless.
>re-rolling failed to wound rolls is useless

>>53080446
>Deathspitter be like :"I'm over here you blind niggeroid"

>>53080358
>>53080399
Lets hear your theory how hit modifiers work then.

>>53080473
The devourer is better against anything T4 or lower.

>>53080730
And not wearing any armor. And probaly will be replaced with the Deathspitter.

>>53080493
You roll the dice and apply the modifier to the roll.

Fuck, that was tricky.

>>53080817
How do you know?
Quote me the rule that says that.

>>53079388
The FAQ doesn't address that question at all and doesn't even fully answer questions about quantity of parries because you have to infer what happens if you have two pairs of boneswords because it was apparently too hard to add another sentence saying you get 4.

So that's going to be an ongoing argument.

>>53080901
I will take this fucking retard'd bait.

Page 33

>Because of the modified, it quite possible that you will end up needing a score of 7 or more to hit the target...Follow by a fucking example of Ork shooting with Hit modified.

But it's alright, keep pretending to be a retard, like seriously this is the reason they have some stupid retard FAQ that was already in the rule.

>>53081020
>Because of the modified, it quite possible that you will end up needing a score of 7 or more to hit the target.

Why would you "need" a 7 to hit? The chart goes from 6 to -3. If you modify the dice rolls, you would simply roll the dice, subtract the Hit Modifier, and consult the chart. Why would there even be a concept of "Needing a 7+" That's not on the chart.

The rules simply never state that modifiers are applied to anything, either a dice roll or to a "needed" result. The example is some non-sequiter that contradicts the rule of rolling a "To-Hit" d6 and consulting the chart.

Dumbest thing in the FAQ
>if I charged do I count as running
Did you fucking run in the movement phase? No? Then why the fuck would you count as running?

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>>53080493
>>53080817
>>53080901
>>53081020
>>53081150
Oh, look. An example. That spells out even for retards how it works. Shocking!

2D6 bell curve for 40K when?

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>>53081150
>Reading is hard.

>Ork BS is 2, need 5 to hit normally without modified

>Modifield is -1 and -1, now need to roll 7. Because 5 +1 +1 is 7, inb4 negative hit modified made you shoot better, OMG it's 5-1-1 =3!!!!!1111!!

>Dice only go up to 6.

>Rule say in these situation if roll 6, look on table.

>Roll 6, look on table, need 7+, on re roll a 4+ count as hit.

>"Oh no i can't understand it, too hard, Because I'm pretending to be a fucking retard. hurr durrr Look how retard i am people!"

>>53081277
That example doesn't make any sense according to the rules.
If the modifiers effect the dice roll, then you don't "need" anything, you just roll and subtract from the dice and look at the chart.
However if the modifier effects the "needed to hit" number, then a -2 to hit would mean that he requires a 3 to hit.

Ultimately, these are pure guesswork because the rules actually do not explain exactly how this is computed. This example actually just contradicts the only written rule for resolving shooting.

>>53081304
The rules never explicitly state in what manner the modifiers are applied to anything.

Basically just quote me the rule in the rulebook.
You can't because there is no rule. They give modifiers but never describe how to apply them. They give a shitty example that is unsupported by any real rules.

>>53081401
Now you're just being wilfully obtuse. Either that, or you're such an autist you can't go outside without a minder.

>>53081437
It's obviously some bore retard from /40kg/

Or maybe it's the fucking cheetah anon.

>>53081424
Ironically they actually do explicitly write exactly how to apply modifiers to armor, I checked.

>>53081437
My point is the rules are poorly written and just assumes some critical aspect of how to play without mentioning. Sure you can devise some reasonable approximation of what you assume they meant by the rules. My point is they should address this in the RUle FAQ since the point is to clarify vague rules.

>>53081401
I perfectly predict your retarded reply
> inb4 negative hit modified made you shoot better, OMG it's 5-1-1 =3!!!!!1111!!


>Sv mod -1 mean they gain more armor people!!!! OMGGGG!!!

>>53081489
After 2 fuckups, lol.
Even then that doesn't address the core argument, there is no actual rule for applying to hit modifiers.

Just admit they wrote sloppy rules. It's blatantly obvious.

>>53081476
The only point i see in your post is poor fucking retardism that just a waste of space on any FAQ, same as the fucking asshole that ask if they can spend more than 1 prmothium cache pre resupply phase.

>>53081517
>Even then that doesn't address the core argument,
It's just you who refuse to understand any basic, even with the example showing how it applied.

This must be the same asshole that ask if GK get free shit because they "replace" their stormbolter not "buying" them.

>>53081519
There is literally no rule in the rulebook that says to apply modifiers to To Hit rolls.

>53081565 (you)
Except that in the example to hit roll increase to 7.

You really want that (you) didn't you.

>>53081562
The example contradicts the rule for rolling the To Hit d6 and consulting the chart.

If I could recommend a change, they should call the Hit Modifiers "Negative Required Roll Modifiers", since according tot eh questionable example, the seem to be applied to the second line of the chart showing what number is "needed to hit" but in negative values, also assuming that the chart flows past the limit of 6.

>53081619 (retard) (you)
>The example contradicts the rule for rolling the To Hit d6 and consulting the chart.

Except that right above the example there are the rule for anything to hit above 6.

All they would have to do is put in a single sentence that says "Here is exactly when and how you apply Hit Modifiers:", then they would clear up everything.

It's clearly an issue because there is a clear source of confusion considering >>53080901 thinks that it is applied to the dice roll.

Instead they use vague natural language which assumes that the players is thinking what numbers he "needs" and then the Hit Modifiers are invisibly negated... They should just spell this out. Just sloppy.

>>53081670
>Except that right above the example there are the rule for anything to hit above 6.

Why would that ever come up? It's not on the chart.

>>53081716
And they made an example covering both that problem and how it work for anything above 7. You know what they should do. They should write in big letter on 1st page "Our game are not made for fucking retards" There we go.

>53081733 (retard)
>Why would that ever come up?

I just change it to (retard) for you to track it easier, at this point look like you have a severe case of dyslexia, because look like we are back to this >>53081343

There is only one no-kidding real actual cogent rule for determining whether or not you hit and it is the section on page 31 called "Hitting The Target" that says roll a D6 and check your BS and consult the chart to see the "minimum D6 roll needed to hit".
Fair enough, we have established a gameplay mechanism for determining hits. Lets keep reading.

The next section talks about some theoretical discussion about trying to shoot someone, followed by a list of modifiers, representing situations associated with a -1, -2, or +1 value, and how to determine if the conditions apply.

So here we would expect some explicit instructions for how this list of modifiers is applied to a game mechanic. Are they applied to the To Hit d6 roll result? Are they applied to the second line of the Chart for determining "minimum d6 Roll needed to hit"? Are they applied to the Ballistics Skill of the shooter model? The rules omit any mention. According to the rules as currently written, Hit Modifiers exist as a chart but there is no way to determine which game mechanic they apply to.

Then there is a mysterious "Example" about an ork boy. They say he has a BS of 2 so he "needs" a 5 to hit. Then they claim that "because of modifiers", "a score of 7 is needed". Why? According to what rule? Never in the rules is it established that modifiers actually effect anything. So the example assumes that modifiers are effecting the "minimum d6 Roll needed to hit". But exactly why? It's unclear in the breif example how they computed this increase of the "score needed", especially since the cited modifiers are negative.

Ultimately, any careful reading of the rules must admit that they skip over the explicit instructions for how to apply modifiers.

Especially obvious given later the modifiers to armor saves are spelled out explicitly.

>53081990 (retard)
>mysterious
>careful reading of the rules
>dyslexia
Sure thing Bub.

>>53081716
Jesus christ how the hell do people like this survive life in the real world?

>Hey anon excuse me for just a second
*One second passes
>YOU HAD A SECOND, GET THE FUCK AWAY REEEEEEEEE

>>53074487
Take 1 shuricannon. And then just spam shuricat DA or Guardians. The shuricat is an amazing basic weapon.
But be prepared to be bored at the rearm stage of the game. You have very few options.
I would try to get guerilla -> scavenger a.s.a.p. Then you can buy 1 DA + shuricat without using promethium.

>>53082519
They probably get along just fine, feeding off the tears of the people they bait online.

>>53082519
No need to shitpost and be mad, just admit that GW wrote bad rules. That's not impossible.

>>53081318
Why not just play warmahordes at that point?

>>53081401
Do you need written instructions on how to take a shit?

>>53082724
Yes, also a flashlight and a map.

>>53082724
Well, I shit in my pants until I was old enough to be shown how to sit on a potty with my pants down.

>>53082576
no that's the thing though, I've met people like this in real life who really would argue about something like this.

It's perfectly clear what it's supposed to mean, maybe it isn't autistically stated to the letter how it's supposed to be but the example makes it blatantly obvious how it's supposed to be used.

There are plenty of other things that needed clarification, like climbing, flip belts, etc., but this is not it.

I'm glad for the FAQ. The plasma pistol clarification is a godsend. And I've been playing that 'Ere We Go gives +1 die, so knowing it's +1 to combat score is very useful.
>>53081990
Do you play the game or just bug people about the to hit rule? Because you were doing this last thread too.
The modifiers modify the to hit roll. That's why they're called modifiers. There is nobody who has played this game who has any confusion on this point whatsoever.

>>53083118
I'm pretty sure he's doing a satirical bit to mock people who force GW to FAQ the most retarded questions in the world. or hes retarded.
but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt

>>53083184
The funny thing is the example claims that 12" is long range for a shoota which gives it a -1, but shootas don't have a long range modifier and 12" is short range, which is +1
They must've meant slugga i guess

>>53082833
So are you old enough to understand the rules in the rulebook as presented to you now? Or are you gonna keep shitting your pants for a couple more years?

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Man you guys sure bitch a lot about a rules system that is an exact clone of Necromunda. Have any of you noobs ever played Necro or am I just too much of a grognard to understand the pokemon generation?

Its fuking eazy to beat all the 40K fags by using gangs with basic equipment and some simple tactics. After 17 years of 40K I can understand how people don't understand basic tactics anymore.

>>53083237
It depends. Do sharts count?

>>53083263
What factions have you been using? Post lists? It would be a good way to try to get this thread back on the raild

>>53072948
Got any more signs?

>>53083416
Yeah let's get back on track. I'm a 40k newbie and I have not played any necromunda or shadow war but here is the list I'm thinking of right now:

CSM

Aspriring Champion
- Boltgun
- Bolt pistol
- Krak grenades
- Photo-visor

Chaos Space Marine
- Boltgun
- Bolt pistol
- Krak grenades
- Photo-visor

Chaos Gunner
- Boltgun
- Bolt pistol
- Krak grenades
- Photo-visor

Chaos Cultist
- Autogun

Chaos Cultist
- Autogun

Chaos Cultist
- Autogun

The plan is to upgrade the gunner's weapon and recruit more and more cultists in a campaign for more bodies on the table. I would prefer a list with 4 CSM and 4 Cultists but I haven't figured out how to fit them in with the equipment I want yet.

>>53083520
What Marks of Chaos are you taking? You get one each for your champion, marine, and gunner

>>53083520
Gunner cannot take a Boltgun

>>53083520
Taking the Boltgun and the Bolt pistol seems kinda overkill to me, I can't imagine a situation where you'd need both. If the pistol is for hand-to-hand you might just want to get a sword instead. And 3 krak grenades might be a lot too.

So the FAQ says nids specifically can't swap weapons around after the campaign starts. This means the other factions are free to do so? I didn't realize this, is this true?

>>53083539
Undivided. They're Iron Warriors. I cut that from the list description but forgot to add the mark.
>>53083549
Welp. Guess I'll cut the krak and add a plasma gun then.
>>53083573
I don't like the idea of ammo failing on the bolter then having to fight with a knife for the rest of the skirmish, at least with a bolt pistol I can use it both in close combat and as a backup. I was thinking three krak grenades to be able to hurt pretty much anything I might face with any of my marines.

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>>53083602
Yeah it says so specifically in the Rewards of Battle section

>>53083602
Within role restrictions, yes.
You cant swap a weapon to someone who normally couldn't buy one.

>>53073123
>Warp Spiders just because that would be really fun to play

Agreed completely. They don't have to be good, I just want to blink around all over the place on all that sweet new terrain.

Are pistols good for a GSC killteam, even if I don't plan on doing much melee? Bolt pistols seem real good for the points, and squeezing in autopistols seem pretty ok

>>53083808
Every single guy can buy a bolt pistol, which is pretty much in all ways superior to a shotgun and are cheap as fuck.

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>>53083416
To prove a point I have been running the worst gang possible (Goliath). I've been doing pretty well against Orks, Harlequins, and Marine Scouts. I have a lot of experience fighting Orks from old Necromunda gangs but the Harlequins kind of play out like Spyres. It isn't that difficult to fight kill teams you just generally need to avoid HtH and use a lot of fall back tactics. Flamers help, especially against Harlequins. Necromunda gangs have cheap juves to use for probing and meat shields. But most of all they have heavy weapons which allow them to punch back against the more well equipped kill teams.

>>53083925
shotgun does ignore all cover though, which can be useful
>>53083936
wait are you playing a necromunda gang against swa kill teams?

>>53083520
Your kind of heavy on equipment for your marines. You could use about 3-4 more cultists.

>Third War for Armageddon
>no Black Templars
I want a Kill Team with Initiates and Neophytes. What the fuck.

>>53083808
Pistols should always be your primary weapons. Autopistols all the way, take it from a Necro vet.

>>53083956
Only blastshot ignores cover. And at ranges greater than 4" it is -1 to hit, so effectively at 4"+ it only ignores partial cover.

Whereas the bolt pistol is +2 to hit at 0-8", which essentially means it ignores cover at that range, can be shot at 8-16" without penalty, plus it has a better profile.

>>53083925
Can you get Manstopper shells for a shotgun? If so that is the best way to fight Marines.

>>53083974
I would like to take more cultists but because they're listed as new recruits I can't take more of them than my marines.

Now considering either plasma + reload and no kraks or 4 marines with bolters and 4 cultists with autoguns for changes to my list.

>>53084021
Pistols over bolters? Why is that?

I'd like a Deathwatch Killteam to be a thing. I'm tempted to run CSM and just sub in Killteam marines but with my luck my local groups would be ass-pained over it.

>>53084038
No. Manstopper shells don't exist in SW:A.

Shotguns are basically worthless.

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>>53083956
Absa-fucking-lutly, It's fun as fuck to boot. It a lot more versatile way to play but you don't get as much cash as kill teams.

>>53084047
People who get ass pained over you refluffing a list using the actual rules are retards. It'd be like if people thought using skins in League of Legends was cheating

>>53079084

>GSC Lasgun is now 25pts

I told you that 35pts was a typo.

>>53084047
You don't get to be butthurt about proxy models so long as it's still WYSIWYG.

>>53084078
Great mini.

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>>53084044
Pistols +2 to hit at short range and they are cheap and reliable.

>>53084047
There's nothing that says a Killteam can't fall to Chaos like any other renegade space marine.

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>>53084047
There is so much butt hurt going around now that everyone can jump into 40K on the cheap and the Necromunda community has been piling up house rules and mods for years.

>>53084147
Alright. I'll go put together a new list and post it here in some minutes. Would you say 6 models is not enough bodies on the table and I should go for 8-10? Or is 6 fine.

>>53079084
Zero tau errata

I guess my drones are alive.
>why, why was I programmed to feel pain

Also stealth suit cover is still a mystery.

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>>53084073
Why don't we just use the Necromunda open market? Especially with a factions like CSM and Orks.

>>53084205
Next month they'll release more errata:
>Tau Kill Teams
>Remove Tau from game

>>53084205
model your drones to not be flying and have arms and legs, faggot, your shit isn't wysiwyg

>>53084226
It would require a fairly substantial remodeling to work properly

>>53084121
Only the worst fags get angry over proxies, especially in skirmish gaming. You still need a fig to represent the profile but literally anything holding a gun will due.

It's always 40K players bitching about proxies. And they are the ones that could use colored beads to play their dumb shit game.

>>53084137
Not mine, but my all time favorite.

How are you guys handling equipment swaps?
I imagine most are too small to magnetize, and that blu-tack is frowned upon.
Assuming wyches are decent in 8e I'd like to use em there, too, which adds to wanting to be able to WYSIWYG.

>>53083118
>The modifiers modify the to hit roll.
Not according to the rules.

>>53084147
Here's my new list, I'm not going to bother removing the points this time if that's okay.

Iron Warriors Chaos Undivided (1000)

Aspriring Champion 225 (250)
- Bolt pistol 25

Chaos Space Marine 120 (145)
- Bolt pistol 25

Chaos Space Marine 120 (145)
- Bolt pistol 25

Chaos Gunner 130 (250)
- Melta gun 95
- Bolt pistol 25

Chaos Cultist 40 (70)
- Autopistol 15
- Axe, flail or bludgeon 15

Chaos Cultist 40 (70)
- Autopistol 15
- Axe, flail or bludgeon 15

Chaos Cultist 40 (70)
- Autopistol 15
- Axe, flail or bludgeon 15

>>53084316
SW:A stipulates that things needs to be modeled appropriately for how they are armed. I think that is a fairly good rule in general, you should be able to look at a dude and get a good idea of what the fuck it is.

With deathwatch, which are dudes in power armor armed with boltguns, it's super fine to proxy them as another force which is dudes in power armor armed with boltguns.

>>53084348
http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D101-N52
tiny, tiny magnets in the arms

alternatively pins and tiny amounts of glue

>>53084203
There is nothing special about a Necromunda House Gang. Are you not familiar with them? If you're facing Kill Teams I would take a heavy armed with a flamer but a Heavy Stubber and some extra frag grenades does the job.

In skirmish gaming it isn't as much about the builds as it is about the tactics you use for the scenario.

>>53084268
No it wouldn't, just use the outlaw trading chart and have your Cultists or Grots work outlaw territories. that would give you actual credits that you could buy things with.

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Getting these guys painted is killin' me. Getting the other people in my group to get ready for a game is killin' me. Making terrain for Shadow War in general is killin' me. but I'm so excited

>>53084515
No, no experience with Necromunda unfortunately. I only know 7e kill team where I get creamed using CSM if I don't load up on a horde of cultists, hence my worries about not having enough bodies on the table.

If a flamer is my only special weapon won't I run into problems in missions where I need to destroy objectives? What elements would you consider to be absolutely essential in any kill team or house gang list?

Shas'Ui - Pulse Carbine, Photo-Visor, Clip Harness - 195

Recon Drone x2 - 220
Pulse Drone - 50

Cadet - Pulse Carbine, Photo-Visor - 95
Cadet - Pulse Carbine, Photo-Visor - 95
Cadet - Pulse Carbine, Photo-Visor - 95
Cadet - Pulse Carbine, Photo-Visor - 95
Cadet - Markerlight - 65

Specialist - Pulse Carbine

First Game - Raid
>Table is set up by 3rd party
>Pick my side
>don't realize how long of a range opponent has
>walk right in to the killzone of his fortified building
>30" shots everywhere
>my guys go down after 2nd volley
>force bottle test
>fail
>leader is left behind and captured
>his side mission gives him an extra 100pts

Second Game - Rescue Mission
>opponent rolls lucky on spotting distance the same turn I'm moving my drone across open ground
>get spotted
>don't have the range or shots on any of his guys
>pinned down, only as able to bring 5
>reinforcements come and he rolls the same side I'm on
>downs two guys
>charges one and m cadet fights him off
>auto-fail bottle test and leave leader to die

Campaign is off to a good start

>>53084403
Modeling is fun but playing is funner. No one is going to be pissed if a lasgun is an autogun. Last campaign I played someone used Star Wars figs.

>>53084579
Territories do not exist, credits do not exist, having soldiers who are part of actual military forces work territories does not make sense dramatically more so with some factions. All of the factions having access to the same equipment does not make sense. 95% of the equipment and weapons in the game does not exist in necromunda.

Just using the rules from necromunda would constitute a major modification to the base rules and require you to basically throw all the SW:A campaign rules in the trash and without modification you'd have tyranids with plasma cannons.

So no, you can't just chop two things in half, slap them together and have them work correctly.

>>53084752
This, you could make a system for randomized gear-buying that looks like the trading post, but it would be retarded to try and just port the system straight from necromunda.

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>>53084640
HEAVY STUBBER, a lot of people say the original Necromunda was built around this weapon. Use it to punch across the board and control the high ground. Grenade launchers can be fun also and give you a lot of ammo versatility. A lot of the heavy weapons in Necromunda are there for shock value but now they will actually be effective. I like the missle launcher because you can switch between Frag and Krak missiles. All Gangs require a healthy mix of shotguns, autoguns, and lasguns. Juves use Stubguns and Auto pistols.

If you fighting Kill Teams with Gangs:
Give you shotguns manstoper shells
Give your Autogunners - Frag Grenades.
Keep your Lasgunners on overwatch in back as normal.
Give your juves dum-dum bullets
As soon as you can afford it give your leader a Meltagun.

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>>53084752
I would love to throw the SW:A campaign rules in the trash I suggest everyone does so immediately. That is exactly what the SWA campaign rules are, TRASH.

The tabletop rules and point costs are identical and pose no barrier for gangs to enter into a campaign. If Kill teams like Orks and CSM want to participate in the territory and market system I think they can do so because Necromunda has a system built for this kind of thing called OUTLANDERS.

>>53084851
Why would it be retarded? They are identical tabletop and point systems and we already know they work.

What is retarded is that people aren't putting this simple shit together already. Get out of the GW brainwashing and use some creativity.

>>53085073
>Why would it be retarded?
Because tyranids with plasma cannons.

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>>53084752
Obviously Tyranids don't work territories or shop at the market, but GSC sure do.

Kill Teams are military units that are apart of large military hierarchies. They have supply chains and chains of command. They don't function autonomous like Necromunda Gangs or Inquisimunda Warbands. But it would be appropriate for some factions to dabble in the Underhive environment. Orks, GSC, CSM, have the capacity to function a lot more autonomously than other factions and might have the ability to function as Outlanders.

>>53085073
Copy-pasting rules from necromunda into SWA without taking into account the differences between the setting and the difference between gangs and killteams is the opposite of creativity.

>>53084881
Okay because I play CSM I've tried to take the essence of what you said and apply it within the restrictions of the current rule set for CSM kill teams. This leaves me with a 4 man kill team that fills the major points of the roles you outlined.

Alpha Legion Chaos Undivided (1000)

Aspriring Champion 225 (300)
- Plasma pistol 50
- Chain sword 25

Chaos Space Marine 120 (180)
- Bolter 35
- Frag grenades 25

Chaos Space Marine 120 (180)
- Bolter 35
- Frag grenades 25

Chaos Gunner 130 (340)
- Heavy bolter 185
- Bolt pistol 25

I like the fluff of this, they are alone when they arrive on Armageddon but as time passes they recruit more and more cultists to serve their ends.

>>53085237
You could make it work, obviously. But you'd have to sit down and retool it fairly extensively and also append all the killteams to explain how they work. It would require an actual homebrew project.

It's not just a matter of "Use the rules from necromunda".

>>53085148

If that is the hill you want to die on then this conversation is a waste of time.

I'm pretty sure a Genestealer cult is going to be able to dig up 5 creds to buy manstopper shells. This is a fair way to accommodate that in the setting.

Outlander territory, scavenging, trade, and rare trade. A whole system already work out for this that is tried and true.

Or we can go back to shotguns being useless because you can't buy the right shells for them.

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>>53085238
You're a tool.

>>53085396
As in fairly extensively do you mean 1/2 a page or a full page of obvious rules and restrictions.
Such as our stupid pensions for Tyranid hive warriors trying to go shopping in this thread.

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>>53085396
Yes it is OBVIOUS you could make it work. If you bring common sense into it, it might even work beautifully.

>>53085505
>I want to use rules from a different game in this game
>What do you mean it's dumb for necrons to suffer from starvation?

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I'm figuring this game out, thinking it may be a good pick up game or something to play with people who have not played wargames before (or children), as the rulebook says 2' x 2' table can be enough and I already have a ton of terrain and Guardsmen.

What would a typical kill team for the following be: Guardsmen, Sisters of Battle, Scouts, Tau and Orks?

I figure a box of Ork Boyz would probably be enough for a kill team (with maybe some extra resin bits to spruce them up and use all the weapons), but I'm not sure yet if that would be the same with a box of Firewarriors or a set of 5 Sisters. Also I don't know if I should get a box of Scouts and one sniper second hand; it seems like getting 5 sniper box is a waste of money. Guardsmen are less of an issue as I used to field them in full 40k and I have them equipped with a variety of weapons.

I'd like some variety in playstyles too and I figure those armies would offer enough. Or should I opt for Eldar instead of Tau? Scouts I'm least crazy about (aside from giving me an excuse to model Cyrus).

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>>53085238
The playtest are coming in and the Gangs are holding their own against Kill Teams. I guess 40K players aren't so bad ass after all.

>>53085505
And you are a fool

Quit the bickering already.

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>>53085646
Orks are a great place to start for this kind of game system. They are a lot of fun. Don't forget to get some extra Grots.

Guard more resemble the traditional way this game is played. Marien Scouts kind of fill the same profile that Adeptus Arbites did in Necromunda.

The whole system is a clone of Necromunda and makes for quick action packed games.

I think your table specks are wrong, go for 4x4 most times.

>>53085646
You can go boys or you can go toys for pretty much any list, so what the list looks like is entirely up to you. Most lists are capped at 10 models, so if you can imagine 5 or 6 dudes of each faction, you can begin to imagine what a basic team for each faction might look like. Also, feel free to use battlescribe to throw together some lists and get a feel for them

>>53085661
Gangs are outright better than the "normal guys" kill teams. The starting equipment is a little weaker, but they get more advances, have access to more equipment and are much less restricted with regards to who can be armed with what.

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>>53085684
He's the one not being reasonable. SWA is clone of ORB Necromunda. How dare I try to compare or merge the two games?! Seriously?

>>53085771
I'd say that was a general request to everyone engaging in unproductive discussion.

>>53085771
No one gives a fuck about your homebrew merger rules. Shut the fuck up.

>>53085800
He's not suggesting homebrew, he's suggesting just using the rules straight out of necromunda, hence starving necrons and tyranids with plasma cannons.

Anyway...

Can I get some feedback on my list? >>53085301
I can also change the leader's chainsword to a plasma pistol reload, I just gave him the chainsword because I had 25 points left over.

>>53085820
He's trying to make up rules merges. Making up rules is either cheating or homebrew.

so which is the better ork clan if you're going for a mix of shooty and choppy, bad moons (ferocity, muscle, shooting) or blood axes (combat, stealth, shooting)


ferocity seems like the better skill for melee boyz, but stealth has some interesting stuff

>>53086156
Shooty > Choppy

Unless you're WS5 you don't belong in close combat.

>>53085903


holy shit you're not going nurgle like everyone else


drop the nades in favor of laser pointers for one,

>>53086182

orks are ws5

on a charge since the combat bonus is doubled

>>53085732
>>53085736
Alright... So typical points limit is 1000?
Playing around with battlescribe it looks like I'd be at 5 Scouts or Sisters or 7 Boyz usually. So typical 40k boxes would be a bit overkill from the get go.

>>53086280
The points limit is 1000, period. See the building kill team rules.

>>53086280
Most people will tell you to go boys>toys when you first start your team, and pick them up more gear after your first couple missions. I wouldn't exactly call it overkill, since over the course of a campaign you're going to be picking up more dudes/gear

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>>53085903
You need more cultists. And this isn't 40k. You aren't guaranteed victory simply through your list composition. This type of system depends on scenarios and the tactics you employ.

Try to stop thinking about the game in terms of kill team fight scenarios. A lot of the scenarios only give a random or limited amount of your Kill team in initial deployment. Sometimes two or three troops could be holding out while reinforcements randomly enter the game.

Your tactics are much bigger indicator of victory than you list composition. You do need balance in your lists and a quick path to defeat is over specialization. You're always better having a mix of arms and avoiding point concentrations. Try to pare troop combinations in twos and threes. These will have the best chance of entering as reinforcements. The heavy and a bad ass should for your hold out team. Give your hold out a shotgun/flamer, laspistol, frag grenade and a sword. Try to use your leader as a reinforcement in case your holdouts get isolated and beat down.

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>>53085800
Its the same system as Necromunda. Go play 40K .

>>53085820
????? Plasma cannon?

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>>53085940
ITS THE SAME FUCKING SYSTEM! It's called a bloody expansion!

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>>53086286
Thats funny, the point limit is the same in Necromunda. And the points for all the equipment is the same, and troop costs are similar.

Holy shit this is Necromunda!

Maybe SWA will work PERFECTLY in Necromunda?

Maybe every hive in the Imperium is a similar shithole with similar worker houses fighting each other (they could even be the same standard worker houses of the Imperium!).

Suddenly a whole campaign system emerges for military kill teams fighting in a hive populated by gangs and various warbands.

Wow, wouldn't that be cool?

Holy shit this sounds easy to pull together.

>>53086246
Nope! I try to start building a list with a fluff idea and then I try to make it as effective as possible. In this case I think Alpha Legion recruiting cultists would be really fun.
>>53086329
I would only have no cultists in the first game. Even if I lose I can start recruiting cultists in subsequent games and I don't mind playing at a disadvantage.

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>>53085745
Don't forget their income averages about 45 cred/points compared to the standard 100 kill teams get each turn. That is a big difference.

The gang injury chart is far more deadly as well.

Kill teams get a guaranteed advance every game but it is much more variable with gangs. Kill Teams can get an advance out of their injury chart as well and this isn't quite the same story for a ganger.

Basic weapons are pretty vanilla. There is a little flare in the pistol list but most gangers have a pretty standard equipment list. After that it is all pretty random. It can be powerful but it isn't anything you can plan for.

Gangs don't get Underdog or Giant Killer Bonus when fighting kill teams.

When gangs get Promethium Caches they can use them as Isotopic Fuel Rods but this benefit is only marginal and the byback on the rods is only 25 creds.

I would put gangs at a disadvantage but again this game is built on tactics more than lists and the Necromunda community has 17 years of experience under its belt.

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>>53086739
You know the fluff of your idea might even be more plausible. The Marines breach the hive and set about their way to recruit and make contact with cultists to aid the campaign of terror.
This tactic might be the way to go but I would play conservatively for a few games and don't hesitate to voluntarily bottle out as soon as you can. You need cheep numbers in this game to act as bullet screens and start the mixing process.

>Make GSC Team named The Warriors, all named after the cast from the movie
>Leader is Cyrus
>Is literally the first casualty of the campaign, dies first match

Infuriating yet appropriate

>>53086525
>Holy shit this sounds easy to pull together.
Why don't you go ahead and write that up then?

>>53086385
>all the videos and internet sites describing the difference between the game from necromunda.
>it's the same REEEEEEEE.
Please die quickly so you don't spread your idiocy any longer

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>>53086918
Keep fighting bro, this game is built on comebacks.

In Necromunda I always use the back of my gang sheet as my graveyard. Opponent, date, circumstances of death. It builds the history of your gang quickly.

>>53086994
It's cool this happened a couple weeks ago, I never got to share the story, I thought it was hilarious that the guy named the character who dies at the beginning of the movie died at the beginning of the campaign

>>53086918
CAAAAAN YOUUUU DIG IT???

>>53087131
Really wanted to say that after krumping a git with his power maul...

>>53086918

Fucking HELL now I want to do a bunch of kill teams done up as different gangs from The Warriors.

>>53087170
>Counts-as-ing power mauls as chainswords for that baseball gang

Hhhhhhhnnnnnnnnggggg

I'm thinking about doing a Sealab 2021 themed Kill team, but I can't decide what would work best, I'm thinking either Inq or Guard. GSC would require too many models

Play elite Inquisition as Danger 5.

Remember, Kill Abaddon.

>>53087517
this

>>53086525
I'm with you man, I'd happily help work together both systems to work together fully. There are already some great homebrews for orks on yaktribe that could be adapted for their creds system, nids could work similarly.

>>53086974
Can you fucking read? Jesus christ it's the same god damn rules you retard. Read them!

>>53088116
>Jesus christ it's the same god damn rules you retard
Except they aren't.

The game is 95% necromunda, but it's not necromunda.

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>>53088061
I don't ever think nids should be earning creds. But Genestealer cults have a storied history in Necromunda culture. Most people believe House Delque to be a Genestealer cult.

Some kill teams are just in the hive to invade and fuck things up. It is different than the "MO" of a gang (or an Inquisimunda warband) but there isn't any reason the two can't fight each other.

Gangs and Kill Teams can fight all day they just operaterate differently in the post battle campaign sence.

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>>53088156
Wow, just fuck off dude. Fuck off.

>>53088212
What a convincing argument you make.

>>53088212
>>53088250
Children. You've been going at this far too long.

>>53088116
If you think this game is exactly the same as necromunda you really should not be accusing other people of being illiterate.

>>53088195
Well "creds" are still the currency, it's just other ways of going about getting it.

I think working out a system of gaining it for corrupting the planet may be interesting, develop some sort of system where the brood is rewarded by the hivemind for certain actions, with taking over other players territories being where the main money is. Tyranids balance could actually be having few ways of generating creds but cheap equipment - after all, it's not like they can buy much if anything from the usual necromunda equipment.

>>53088365
Tyranids ought to gain "credits" based on KIA members of their opposing team. Biomass gotta come from somewhere

>>53088195
Because kill teams are kill teams every one of them needs to have their own individual equipment list that they have access to outside of common items that can be obtained through sifting though the black market.

That either means keeping the existing equipment and points system (which is god-awful) or making up a new one (which is effort).

Things like tyranids and necrons should probably function much more differently than others post-game, like spyrers.

>Tfw the old minis you have don't get all the options in SWA.
>Tfw your gorkamorka boyz can't use their kannons as shotguns, and you can't use burnas.
;_;

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So now that we know 100% that SWA and Necromunda are clone systems we can begin to use material from both systems interchangeably and learn from the large body of community built expansions like Inquisimunda and Ash Wastes.

This pretty opens up the whole 40K galaxy to skirmish gaming and allows for competitive campaigning with players everywhere for a marginal entry cost.

Further, by putting irregular humans in this combat system and linking it to the elite forces of the 40K galaxy it has provided a plausible baseline for the entire rules body. This combat system now becomes an actual tactical representation of the technology and methods of the 40K setting. It goes a long way to suspending disbelief and credibly acknowledges that gaming outcomes are built on player decisions and not broken rules sets or troop types.

In other words, if you lose it's your own damn fault. Your victories will be built on the decisions you make on the gaming table not in the broken lists you build or the elite troop types you buy.

I know this is going to be difficult for a lot of 40k players to deal with.

>>53088586
But anon, your glorious gorkamorka boys have simply recruited new gitz to their mighty waagh, and nicked their loot while they were at it!

>>53088606
datz right, bozz.
suckz ta have to redo sum ov der wepunz, tho.
And da zoggin' ban on trukkz.

>>53088618
Just do what I do, pretend the trucks got krumped at the start of the match and use em as scenery/cover

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>>53088468
>Things like tyranids and necrons should probably function much more differently than others post-game, like spyrers
I think all kill teams function like spyres. They are outside military forces. They don't function autonomously like gangs or warbands. And when their objective is complete they leave just like Spyres. The Spyre profile fits most kill teams perfectly. I would be down with giving kill teams the symbolic territory just like spyres. So if a gang kicks their ass hard enough the seized that territory. Then the kill team will just roll another random Outlaw territory to represent their base camp.

>>53088631
datz a brilliant idea, bozz.

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>>53088631
You should go on YakTribe and download @Blooddonors vehicle rules. It's got everything you need to build and use vehicles in Necromunda and SWA

I hope this pdf works.

>>53088587
7/10 Not quite as autistic as the guy who doesn't understand to-hit rolls.

>>53083992
Play chaos with mark of khorne and cultists. Bam.

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>>53088997
A lot less autistic than 40K players.

>>53073726
I play wyches in my league wyches and the chain hooks with venom are godly. Try not to bother with the recruits, and save pistols for later in your league. You have to remember to hide, force the aponent to come to you, charge with everything when the get in range, because otherwise you will be shot to death by every faction out there. Play the mission and try to bait your aponent seriously you have to hide more than any other army. You have the charge range to really utalize it as very free have high initiative to spot you. Remember to play the mission. Keep your girls in pairs or triples to help test for pinning early.

>>53073814
It is not. Wyches are the meleeist army, thier weapons reflect that.

DESU when I think about how you can use Gorkamorka orks and Necromunda guys in Shadow Wars, I usually think: Use the points cost (or slightly modified points cost) of the NecroMorka guys and put them in Shadow Wars. Blam. Done. They get 10 teef or 100 credits or whatever each time they battle just as for anyone else in Shadow War. If you want to do a different campaign system then sure, but for making a team, equipping them, and the rules of battle, it's not hard at all to just use what's there, maybe with slight modifications, with the new Shadow Wars ruleset.

>>53081000
>it was apparently too hard to add another sentence saying you get 4.

They was assuming people are not too fucking retard to figure out that Pair of Bonesword and Bonesword+lashwhip get 3 parries so 2 pairs of Bonesword would get 4, naturally.

So what's this "argument" are on about? 2 pairs of Boneswords get 2 parries?

Luckily i am the head organizer at my LGS so any retards that come up to me with retard argument like that, i will just tell him to GTFO.

>>53089584
It seems obvious that 4 boneswords would then get 4 parries for sure.

But it doesn't solve the thing about pair of boneswords being 1 weapon or 2 weapons, or if you can use 2 pairs of boneswords/4 boneswords in melee with a warrior.

>>53089584
>They was assuming people are not too fucking retard
Given some of the other things in the FAQ, that seems like a strange assumption to make.

>>53089584
If you're the lead organizer of your LGS and you type sentences like that I'm amazed you can manage to play at all.

>>53089734
And you're probably the one that i kicked out.

>>53089584
Lash whips and boneswords don't have "pair" profiles, which in the case of every other weapon in the game indicates they are separate weapons and you can only use 2 weapons at once in close combat (unless you have 3 or more arms, or in the case of tyranid warriors, pairs of arms).

>>53089784
I'm glad to see you didn't manage to capitalize that I.

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So a friend gave me an incomplete set of the DV Chaos, so that I could do a SWA gang as a little side-project. Had the idea of basically making a Black Crusade party, so each marine belonging to a different chapter and shit, makes more sense to have some cultists trailing along too.

Made this list limiting myself to WYSIWYG but there is of course wiggle room for dropping something out and equipping the others with gear/grenades/sidearms etc, so rate?

>>53090010
Weapon reloads generally aren't useful. Pistols of any kind > shotguns and you don't have a lot of mans.

>>53090010
Why you give Undivided mark to a not-leader guy.

How easy would it be to build a KT out of the Chaos side of DV or a single box of Ork Boyz (and a huge bits box of Orks and Ironjawz)?

>>53090081
>don't have a lot of mans
Seemed a fair few, they're all running pretty minimal weapons, no gear or nades and no heavy weapon so that kinda seemed the maximum mans I could do.

Could replace shotgun cultist with a autogun/autopistol and melee, though I really like the shotgun dude model.

>>53090104
I've been slack and haven't read the rules thoroughly, but isn't it Necromunda logic of bottle tests using highest leadership? They have to kill three dudes there to get me to roll at Ld8.

>>53090181
Pretty easy to do either.

>>53090195
Awesome. I'm going through the rulebook for the first time now. I'm thinking SWA would be a great introduction into 40k for my gf

>>53090191
>highest leadership

That's why you gave it to leader, he'll be Ld10.

>>53090204
You have 0 heavy weapon from the DV box. Literally all your guy are using Bolter (and a plasma gun if you use marine as chaos)

Well at least you have plenty of Cultist

>>53090250
That's okay. I was gonna let her use Chaos, I always play Orks.

>>53090250
Then when he dies, bam Ld8, which would suck. Plus he gets a bonus for killing another leader in hand-to-hand and is modeled with a power sword so makes more sense to make him Korne.

>>53090284
I'm assuming you mean "down" and not "die", If the leader is dead it's probably a disband for a new team.
Why do you let the Leader down? Protecting the leader and the specialist should be the top priority for most team. He get reward for playing risky but that doesn't mean you have him charge in head first and die.

>>53090262
If you're playing with your GF, you could lessen the WYSIWYG a bit more than usual.

Or even better, you can help her kitbashing the weapon

I've been looking over the Craftworld Eldar list for a bit, trying to figure out what might work best. Here's what I've got though I would definitely appreciate any suggestions. As well as any advice on tactics from others who play Eldar Kill Teams.

Craftworld Alaitoc Kill Team (1000)

Dire Avenger Exarch 240 (335)
- Diresword 60
- Shuriken Pistol 35

Dire Avenger 100 (145)
- Avenger Shuriken Catapult 45

Guardian Defender 80 (120)
- Shuriken Catapult 40

Guardian Defender 80 (120)
- Shuriken Catapult 40

Guardian Defender Gunner 90 (270)
- Shuriken Cannon 180

>>53090447
i'll stick the Exarch with shooting. That twin gun is a beast.

I think the struggle with an eldar team is have to be wary of the number of your guardian, because they're forced to sit out of next mission if they promote. So you need to have some spare Promethium Cache to call in the Special op when that happen.

>>53090447
The diresword is really not that good. All the multiple wound models have high as fuck leadership.

>>53085148
But tyranids can't change equipment

>>53090552
Wow, I thought the Guardian upgrade was a 'may' thing rather than a 'must'. That's pretty annoying actually.

>>53090559
Getting rid of the sword and switching to twin catapults frees me up 30 or so points. Do I get my Exarch a Shimmershield or bump one of the Guardians to a Dire Avenger?

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>>53086286
Ok, so example lists would be:
Cadian vets:
- Sergeant with Bolter (Telescopic sights), Frag grenades and carapace armour
- 3x Veteran with Lasgun and Frag Grenades
- Veteran with Shotgun and Krak grenades
- Specialist with Sniper rifle and camo gear
- Specialist with Grenade launcher (Frag + Krak) and Carapace

Ork boyz:
- Boss Nob with Power Klaw, Shoota, 'Eavy Armour
- 3x Boy with Shoota and Stikkbombs
- Spanner boy with 'Eavy Armour and Big Shoota
- 2x Yoofs with Shoota and Choppa

And it looks like all I'd need to buy would be the Boyz box, which is pretty inexpensive. And, well, some pirate ork bitz to make them Freebooterz, because why wouldn't you.

>>53091168
An ork starting team with only 7 guys is plenty bad. Need to be at least 9 or 10. The power Klaw are overkill and the thing that need the Klaw you simply can't touch on first game (Tyranid). Not to mention taking shoota will deny you the 2 weapon bonus for the nob.

You need at least 2 box of boyz to have a full 20 boyz team.

>>53090317
So again, shaky on how these rules work, but I'm assuming like Necromunda a leader down isn't an automatic lost game? In which case yes I would like another Ld9 to cover for him.

>>53091207
You don't lost the game, but if your leader is down before your trooper, you're playing it wrong. This literally apply to every single kill team in the game. You could have that guy with the undivided mark, now with nurgle instead standing to block bullet for him.

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>>53091205
>You need at least 2 box of boyz to have a full 20 boyz team.
You mean over a campaign?

Ok, so how's this for starter:
- Ork Boss Nob with 'Eavy Armour, Choppa, Shoota, Slugga
- 4x Boyz with Shoota
- Boy with Slugga and Stikkbombs
- Spanner Boy with Big Shoota (Red Dot Laser)
- 2x Yoofs with Slugga and Choppa

Note that I'll usually be pitting those lists against each other, not playing them with randoms at a GW store or anything. Like I said I see this game as something to play with kids in the family or non-wargaming friends before I drop Infinity on them

And also I like tinkering with minis, so I'll probably bloat the ork box with Spellcrow pirate bitz. Add these and a bunch of pirate legs and pirate hat heads and I'm gonna have more and interesting looking orks out of that boyz box.

>>53090734
Yes they can, moron.

>>53091285
hmm. i need help making a genecult team. i've got access to the contents of one DWOK and one neophyte hybrid box

>>53090734
Tyranids can't switch weapons between individuals. In this context the tyranid player would buy the hypothetical plasma cannon, put it on a dude and then that guy would not be able to trade it to a different tyranid.

If tyranids couldn't change weapons at all (which is explicitly not the case) then they'd literally be stuck with whatever base gear you bought them with.

Errata forbids using high plasma setting in cqc. What should I give my Champion instead?

>>53091335
Orkz have a limit of 20 man, unlike most team that can only have 10, (or sometime 15). And they benefit greatly from outnumbering the enemy with mob rule.

Maybe you didn't know but Yoof are one of the best recruit in the game, cheap af and have the same BS as every other ork, stick them with shoota would be your best bet. I'll stick some boy with the melee job instead. Luckily they have the rule that limit your number of recruit so people can't roflstomp you with mass yoof,

>>53091365
A plasma pistol is still great to pair with a CC weapon.

>>53081188
Because harlequinn players are cunts and need to have their brains bashed in with a tablet with a pdf of a FAQ on it.

>>53091425
how do jump packs and flipbelts work now?

can you run or charge with them? is ony the vertical portion of movement limited by your move stat?

>>53091386
I used to run bolt+plasma, Cypher-lite. Now. I don't know. I might just go Inquisition instead.

>>53091458
>how do jump packs and flipbelts work now?

Same way they always did HUE HUE HUE.

"They can move in any direction, including straight up or diagonally up. They cannot end their move in mid-air. They cannot move further than their Move characteristic."

>>53091337
That would be more than enough to make every possible combination of gear.

I'll start with one specialist with a heavy stubber, while trying to get as many body as possible with the rest of the point (all of them need autogun each tho).

The leader can be armed for melee later when you have the spare point and decent WS/Skill.

You could change your list if you know the opponent you're facing beforehand, like Webber are good vs Harlequin, Mining laser are good against Nid/Harlequin...

>>53091509
The problem with webbers is they are extremely short ranged and have accuracy penalties and GSC already shoot really badly. The mining laser is cool, but costs the Earth.

If you actually need to kill tyranids a grenade luancher with krak grenades is pretty much the most cost effective option.

>>53084137
Arms are mounted too low though. If he extends them he'd have his hands down by his knees like a gorilla.

Anyone had time to test out Sisters of Battle lists?

I'm thinking this maybe for my start:

Sister Superior (this loadout mainly because I have a model with this)
-Combi-melta
-Chainsword

Sister
-Boltgun

Sister
-Boltgun

Sister
-Boltgun

Sister
-Boltgun

Sister

Gunner
-Boltgun

My plans are to have the unarmed sister hang out for the first game, then my first rearm I'm going to buy the gunner a multi-melta and donate the bolter to the sister.

>>53091747
I played against them several times, they pretty much just got gang raped over and over.

>>53091747
Gunner cannot buy bolt gun.

>>53091766

The issue they have is that the bonuses they get are super situational and the non-special weapons they get are rather mediocre.

If each model could decide when it wanted to use the faith power it would still be very fiddly but it would be a lot easier to actually use. Right now it's hard to find a single round of the game when all your guys wanna shoot if terrain is being used properly.

The 6++ doesn't stack with the 6++ you'll get for the other guy having red dot sights.

Only having bolters is kinda painful for a shooting army when bolters are not a very good ranged weapon for the price.

That and skill-wise they kinda suck. Combat (And half of Ferocity) is worthless on WS3 A1 models.

They are not unplayable but they rather lack any real upsides as a faction.

>>53084348
Like other anon said, tiny, tiny magnets. There are really tiny ones available. I think the smallest ones I've seen on Hasslefree minis.

Or pins. If you can find a drill bit that perfectly matches the dimensions of the wire you use to pin, you'll only need to glue the pin in the arm and the hand can be pushed onto the pin and stay there because it weighs so little. This depends on where you want the modularity to go though. If you make the whole arm replaceable you'll need something to stop it from spinning, so either magnet and pin, or two pins.

>>53091855
>T3 battle-nons in power armor
What's not to love

>>53084658
I'd be annoyed if someone had a lasgun that was an autogun, because then I would have to either remember that, ask them for a copy of their roster, or ask them every round what each of their units was carrying. Now, while autogun/lasgun might matter less, when people start to not care about the wysiwyg rule is when people eventually go "mmyeah I didn't have time to model a mini with a flamer. Is it cool if this guy with a boltpistol counts as my flamer guy?" and then stuff gets messy fast and arguments and bad feelings ensue. The rule is there to make it simpler for players to at a glance see what a unit is armed with, and to avoid situations where you miscalculate because you for a moment thought a unit was armed with a pistol and suddenly they spout fire in your face.

>>53089293
The issue isn't with how good it is in a vacuum but that paying 20 points for a venom hook is strictly superior to paying 30 points on a specialist for razor flails.

The weaker option is more expensive and limited to fewer models. Something is wrong.

>>53091888

I'm mostly talking mechanically. But you do run into the fact that they don't stack up well in comparison to chaos marines.

Yeah, a chaos marine is 30 more points but +2 Toughness, +1 Init, +1 WS and +1 Str really puts in in the marine corner. They fall less, have a chance in melee and take hits from most weapons vastly, vastly better.

It also doesn't help that basic Battle Sisters have exactly one build: Boltgun, done.

>>53089634
>>53089832
Fuck off, retard.

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>People trying to make SWA into necromunda
I decided to do the opposite of that and started making a gang kill team.

Gonna try and homebrew up a Lost and the Damned/Cultists only type team.

Anybody put much thought into it? At the moment I'm imagining similar to GSC max 15 models.

>>53091943
You seem really upset, maybe people talking about rules is too complicated for you.

>>53085732
Rules clearly state use a table between 2x2 and 4x4. Only a few of the special missions, (more than two players, and one-man-army) specifically suggest 4x4.

>>53091943
>I don't have an answer, but I know that I'm angry!

>>53091966
>>53091984
>>samefag autist

>>53091902
Even WYSIWG have a certain standard and limit. And should be made clear.

Like generally, i'm okay with "count as" the weapons from the same category.

>>53086364
It's a thing in Necromunda.

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>>53092001
Nice try! Keep trying, maybe you'll post something with content in it eventually.

>>53091942
I dunno, in a starting team of Sisters being able to squeeze in 2 or so more models that aren't cultists just seems so juicy. It does however suck that SoB have been in desperate need of new sculpts for 10 years

>>53091959

15 makes sense considering they'll be on the weaker end.

You'll likely want to think of what sort of special rule you want to give the faction to help deal with those rather low stats.

Perhaps some sort of bonus if they are not in the front 90 degree arc of the target? What they lack in skill, discipline or talent they make up for in being the dirtiest fighters about?

>>53092001
>autistically screeching at people for talking about the game
>you're all one autistic samefag!

>>53091959
I put some thought into it until I realized I could literally just use the GSC rules and it worked just fine

>>53091766
>>53091855

Well shit.

I've always love SoBs as they're pure, unfiltered essence of 40k, and have a small number of models for them. I was hoping this would be a way to play them.

I guess I'll just stick to my Orks.

>>53091959
15 for sure.

>>53092027

Yeah, the SOB models really hurts them as a kill team.

In order to get a SOB with twin pistols (If you roll that skill) you need to buy seraphim, put normal SOB backpacks on them and then realise you can never use that model in any regular 40k game now.

>>53092044
>>53092021
>>"You can't beat my argument"
>>has yet to put forward a coherent argument
>>I have no point and I must post

>>53092051
Don't let these people talk you out of running your models if you want to. Just because they're not "super competitive" doesn't mean you're going to auto-lose games. Remember, this isn't 40k. This shit actually takes strategy

>>53092039

Yeah I'm thinking 15 units, with some kind of special relating to the devotions/covenants of chaos from the L&D rules.

>>53092049

Yeah, I'm thinking of using the GSC rules as a base line, and building from that to make it chaos fluffy.

>>53092051

As the person commenting on the issues with them: They are not unplayable. They are still cheap power armour and that's not bad.

They are not fantastic but they (Much like in 40k) sitting more in 'Has issues' than 'Can't be played'.

>>53092067
Literally what.

The post was "Fuck off" in response to someone answering a question. Exactly what coherent argument has to be made to refute the position of "fuck off"?

>>53092099
"Eat a dick" obviously

>>53088365
>>53088406
Maybe nids can get one extra unit for controlling a certain amount of territories? Like "When you control x territories you can recruit a new unit for y points" kind of thing? Needs balancing of course. I just pulled this one out of my ass.

>>53092099
>>if you have three bone swords and a lash whip you get three parries
>>"Nowhere in that statement does it say you can use more than two bone swords"
>>u wot mate?

>>53089634
They're two weapons. They just happen to be available in pairs.

>>53092131
See >>53092114

>>53092114
So what? Do you just not understand the posts you read or something? They were pretty self explanatory.

Boneswords and lash whips appear to be separate weapons. It is only possible to fight with a maximum of 2 weapons in close combat unless you're a genestealer cult fighter with more than 2 arms, or a tyranid fighter with more than 2 pairs of arms.

A tyranid warrior does not have more than 2 pairs of arms, therefore it can only fight in close combat with 2 weapons.

Therefore the reasoning is that even though a tyranid warrior be armed with 4 close combat weapons, it can only use 2.

Getting 3 parries for "having" an extra bonesword doesn't affect that issue at all since it is not stipulated that you need to be fighting with the additional boneswords to get additional parries.

>>53092114
>I'm too dumb to understand rules discussion: the post

>>53091335
>Ork Boss Nob with 'Eavy Armour, Choppa, Shoota, Slugga
He doesn't get bonus for having two cc weapons if he's also carrying a special, heavy or basic weapon (in this case a shoota). Why not just take a big choppa instead?

Orks get bonuses for outnumbering their opponent and has the highest max number of units in swag (20, gsc get max 15 and most other teams get max 10 except elite teams that get less than 10).

>>53092114
see >>53092176
Some people want to play as close to RAW as possible. Other people want to try and draw inferences and play what they think RAI is.

Sperging out like a faggot when someone does the one of those you don't want to do isn't cool.

>>53092204
I'm gonna build real lists when I read the rules. I'm just fucking around with list building right now and figuring out how many models I'd need to play.

>>53091950
Lower the number of specialists to 2 instead of 3 imo.

>>53091285
>but if your leader is down before your trooper, you're playing it wrong
Jesus christ dude, stop fucking giving advice. I can tell you're some 40K Mathammer retard and not an actual Oldhammer player.

Your leader is a high profile target, with 1 wound. There's no way of really ensuring his survival, especially when he is a close quarters fighter. For those instance where he is taken out of action by clever plays, I want another Ld 9 to fall back on. This isn't about the perfect game, this is about covering my ass from bad dicerolls and shit that happens in Necromunda/Mordheim style skirmish games.

>>53092176
>Imma write my own FAQ.
Do you even have people to play with? Do they hate you? I bet they hate you.

>>53092007
Well, depends on your group of course. If you play with people you trust not to be waac fags and actually be honest about reminding you that you get a bonus for this or a save for that, then that's fine. I play with a mix of people of whom some I don't know at all, some are waac fags and a few I trust. I'm usually the player who always make sure my opponent don't forget a save, or stuff like that.

>>53092260
I take it you're the kind of person who needs their opponent to tell them what the rules are because you don't actually read anything yourself.

>>53092051
This is not 40k. You *have* to use tactics. If you lose it's your decisions that caused it. SoB can definitely kick some ass in swag.

>>53092172
Why? It's like I thought when this fucking argument started a couple weeks ago. You can use all the fucking boneswords you have hands for.

>>53092176
>it is not stipulated that you need to be fighting with the additional boneswords to get additional parries
You can't be serious. Are you serious? You think you get an extra parry if you carry a sword clenched between your butt cheeks? If you have cc weapons in your hands you get the bonuses for them in melee. How can this be so hard for you and others to grasp?

>>53092209
>Some people want to play as close to RAW as possible
>play as close to RAW
>GW game

Pick one.

>>53092313
>How can this be so hard for you and others to grasp?
Because it's not actually written that way in the rules.

How is that so hard for you to grasp?

>>53092216
Well, as a base line you'll want more orks as they get bonuses for having many units. A few people have even tried the 20-naked-orks strat (nob, 9 boyz and 10 yoofs with just the squig-armour and shanks they come with) with great success. But in the end you'll want to have fun, and what you find fun shouldn't be limited by optimizing your list. This game is more about tactics on the game table than number crunching.

>>53092330
It's inferred. It's not hard to grasp that you have a hard time understanding this if you're autistic. But I really don't like to assume such things. But I'm running out of other possible explanations for why you would behave the way you do to be honest.

>>53092352
>It's inferred.
That's the exact problem. For some people inference isn't sufficient, particularly in the context of a game where the rules are arbitrary and even moreso a GW product where common sense does not apply.

>>53092380
>>53092352
Different people infer different things from ambiguous or unclearly worded rules. That's why it's important for rules to actually say how things are supposed to work and not just assume that players will all correctly guess the intent of the writers.

That's why I think the cardinal sin of SW:A was copying almost all of its rules right out of necromunda without adding any of the errata and FAQ content into the core rules, hence we had to have a fucking FAQ a month after release to explain stuff half of which there was already answers to. It's as sloppy as fuck.

>>53092423
Some People for the last several weeks were like "just use your common sense". Apparently not realizing that for some people it's "common sense" to get a penalty to hit for running against a model that didn't fucking run, for harlequins yo be able to teleport through walls and to be able to spend multiple promethium caches st once when it specifies you can only spend one.

>>53092380
>>53092423
You are right that it's not sufficient for some people, but they should be aware of their limitations if they've received a diagnosis. Thus they should trust the judgement of others around them who have the ability to "read between the lines".

And sure, people infer different things, but that's what the FAQ is for - for the creators of the game to explain what they inferred.

In the end you're taking this to extremes. It's one thing when it's ambiguous. It's another when you try to force a strange interpretation of something that's not very ambiguous and then point at it and shout "look it's ambiguous because I managed to interpret it differently from what they inferred".

>>53092527
The problem with common sense is that it doesn't manifest itself in a human until about the age of 25, so a not so wild guess is that a lot of younger people are reading these rules and going "wtf I don't understand".