/5eg/ D&D Fifth Edition General

Is the Vitality system any decent?

Tell me your favorite 5e character you've made

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I'm pretty new to 5e/dming. How would I go about making a playable skeleton character?

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>>52925801
Which class/subclass is the most fun to play?

Martial: Battlemaster. Combat manuevers should be something all martials get, but since they don't Battlemaster is amazing.

Caster: Sorcerer. Yes, they're inferior wizards, but learning way fewer spells actually ends up being better for roleplaying in my experience than always having the perfect answer for bypassing every encounter ever.

Gish: Paladin. STOP TRYING TO TURN WIZARD AND WARLOCK AND SORCERER INTO GISHES YOU AUTISTIC FUCKS, THE PALADIN IS ALREADY THE PERFECT SPELLSWORD RAWWWWWWW *autistic screeching*

>>52925937
Other than spookifying the Revenant?

>>52925937
Your players probably shouldn't be asking you to homebrew something for them if you're new.

>>52925964

Paladin getting a Knight of the Arcane Order subclass would be nice. Add some iconic arcane spells to it and give them a few D&D 4e Spellsword tricks.

My party has a horde of magic items, at only level 6. They've just been roaming about, scouring dungeons and quests and stealing and etc, shipwrecked by a dragon and spent like two weeks shipwrecked before teaming up with a dragon to kill the other dragon

They're all super well made characters, sharpshooter fighters, PAM Ranger, all that. They all do a bunch of damage

Their main motivation is to collect the shards of a super powerful sword so they can control a shadow dragon

What the fuck should I do with this campaign

>>52926001
Have things go horribly wrong.

>>52925964
I truely think Battlemaster is the most overrated thing possible. I don't get it. I find Barbarians more fun because at least their limited ability makes more sense and effects a whole combat rather then one attack.

Caster I agree. Druid is also fun a hell.

Gish I don't mind Sorcerer getting abilities and Paladin has very specific roleplay requirements. Honestly with all the options we have now there's a way to build any flavor of Gish so they don't need to make anymore.

>>52926051
They already have, what could I do

Is Revised Ranger stupidly strong?

Primeevil awareness seems like the perfect ability, complete tactical recon up to 5 miles, 1 minute cast, no resource ??, and also that shit with animals, and adv on initiative and vs people who have yet to act, it seems fucking awesome

So in a setting where dwarves essentially have iron bones, would giving them resistance to bludgeoning damage, but electrical attacks and spells having advantage vs them/dwarves having disadvantage vs electrical saves be balanced/reasonable?

>>52926069

Obviously someone else has been doing this for decades and they are trying to intervene. They're a powerful wealthy investor and keep hiring hordes of bounties hunters to take the party out and retreice the peices for him.

So like, samurai jack I guess. Hell, could even make the shadow dragon the antagonist because he doesn't want to be controlled.

>>52925937
Don't, tell your player he can';t be an undertale character.

>>52926069
You must go further. Is the power of the sword well known? Maybe some other groups or cults start showing up more often the closer they get to completing it. Or better yet, if there are notorious big guys have them plausibly find a way to impede your parties progress. I'd say straight up have them jack the sword and have the party find a new solution but that might be too dickish.

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>>52926057
Battlemaster IS overated, yes. However if I'm playing a character who's spent their whole life training in the ways of physical combat, Battlemaster is the only class that lets me pull off tricks like disarming or tripping an opponent without taking a huge penalty for it.

If I want to play a martial, I want some cool tricks at my disposal that reflect my skills and experience with martial combat. It's a shame that none of the other martial classes in the game really let me do that...

Like I said, combat maneuvers should be something all martials get, just like all casters get spells.

>>52926113
Don't forget making all humanoids your favored enemy. The amount off stuff you get at level 1 is absurd, it needs to be spread out so you can't multiclass and just get 1 level in ranger and get a ton of free shit.

>>52925801
>Which class/subclass is the most fun to play?

Martial: Open Hand monk, just knocking shit around, being able to take hits and the end all save or die.

Caster: Dragon Sorcerrer, allready equiped as a full elemental-caster and has free mage armour so you can play it as a Dex based Gish as well.
Thematic if a bit lacking in features due to sorcerrers only having metamagic as their main class features.

>>52926001
mordenkainen's disjunction
Throw bigger stuff at them. Powerful wizards, traders, and archeologists have the peices and don't know what they are.

Do they role play at all, or are they just murder hobos?

>>52926057
>Druid is also fun a hell.
I have played a wealth of characters, and nothing beats a moon druid.

Pretty much just as good as a land druid, but with the ability to turn into a beast of your choice, which adds an enormous amount of flexibility to your options.

It is amazing how much fun I've had with my two moon druids. I thought I loved my Paladin and bard, but damn, the druid just overwhelms you with options, to tye point where I cant see myself picking anything else unless I have to, or have a cool concept I want to try.

My current favourite is an Elf Moon druid. Fights using a Longbow, supports with magic, and transforms into something if things get too close, or a now just isn't a viable weapon in the current fight.

What would be the best option for a Spear fighter who uses the spears both at range (throwing) and up close?

>>52926123
Baron Blackthorne, lavishly wealthy Human nobleman who has spent his life and fortune hunting the sword, as he believes it was originally wielded by one of his ancestors.

Sends hitman of increasing difficulty at the party and actively searches for pieces of the sword

Definitely a vampire sorcerer too

I made a reply in a different thread the other day and have been getting progressively more worried about my situation. How would you guys go about converting a Binder and/or an Illumian from 3.5 to 5e?

>>52926132
Except they can do those things and casters get better debuffs but martials can do them all day long. Plus Barbarians and Rogues do them better then Battlemaster at the cost of damage.

Really it comes to the fact people ignore this.

"This section includes the most common contests that require an action in combat: grappling and shoving a creature. The GM can use these contests as models for improvising others."

If you want to punch the Wizard in the throat to silence him for a turn, the DM should work with you. If you want to try and smash a shield with your Warhammer, the DM should work with you.

Really most of the best things you can do are included in Grappling, Shoving. Personally if a player wanted to shove someone into a barrel I'd give them damage on top of the movement from the impact.

Really the issue is too many DM's treat environmental hazards as really weak and in white rooms shear damage output will always win.

>>52926195
I wouldn't, scionics are stupid and terrible.

>>52926190
Uhh do you have the spear master feat

>>52926212
Neither of those are related to Psionics though, and UA has its own Psionics doesn't it?

>>52926195
>Binder
Reflavored warlock (with the invocations and spells being bound spirits) or a reflavored mystic.

>Illumian
Making races in 5e is one of the simplest things to homebrew.

>>52926215
No UA allowed I am afraid.

>>52926203
Yeah I have never seen a GM not allow all sorts of actions like this. My GMsaid that Battle Master options get the superiority die on top of the manoeuvre, but without needing it (except in a few select cases), because most of the manoeuvres is something everybody should be capable of.

>>52926239
>>52926230

Oh, sorry, jerk then. I thought I remembered both those things being scionics related.

>>52926203
>the DM should work with you

There's the problem. Most DMs are not familiar with the rules enough to even know that Disarming and a lot of other variant attacks/actions are even things. Most DMs are not as open to a lot of more creative actions martials can take. If it's not explicitly spelled out in the rules or it's not something they directly had planned, it's not very likely to work well.

I've run into it a lot because I like to try to play creatively with my character by using items or the environment and it ALWAYS ends up being a waste of an action at best or an active detriment to my character at worst.

I'll throw a pot of oil into a campfire that's surrounded by goblins and it won't do any damage. I'll throw a grappling hook to grab a shark that has less Strength than me and have to make a contested check to not be pulled in by it. I'll have to roll Athletics to lift something that's less than half of my lifting capacity.

My DM isn't even a bad DM, he just doesn't know a lot of those rules and he doesn't consider that stuff that I enjoy.

>>52926203
It'd be kinda cool to have some sort of table for level appropriate improvised action damage and effects, just so when I improvise an action with the rogue I don't deal like 1d6 fire damage.

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Continuing off the last thread this is what the weapon starts as and I only have plans of upgrading it twice. How does this sound? After 20 living creatures are slain with this weapon the weapon will become +2, will reveal Azathoth's holy symbol, and will gain the ability on the wielder's command to blind the wielder. Then need to slay 5(?) more living creatures while blinded to reach its final state.

>>52926315
Seems cool.

It does feel like it needs a lot of effort. Even 5 kills is difficult, and the meta gaming part is problematic.

If the player is not aware of the amount of kills required, being blinded feels like a huge detriment that may or may not be worth it. If he is, it could spark a lot of negativity if he isnt given the kills, as he really needs them asap. You'll probably need some resources to help him not have a permanent disadvantage.

Pull also need to figure out what the necesarry kills are. If it is just kills, you'll likely end up with players restraining the enemies, tying them up as a helpless prisoner, and THEN blind him to give him the kills.

You'll need to do something extra to avoid just hampering the user, with the promise that it *might* be worth it later down the road. If this is intended for a Warlock, even more so, because a Warlock isnt exactly the most efficient fighter in the first place, and further hampering him isn't good for his overall contribution.

>>52926265
Exactly. You don't need to give all martials dice. You need to give them actions.

Same as those skill feats that gave you actions. If you want to intimidate someone and frighten them for a round in melee, you shouldn't need a feat because anyone skilled at intimidation should at least be able to try it in exchange for 1 attack.

>>52926282
They really should've made "If a player wants to try an action that's not here, figure out a check for it" right at the front of the combat section. It's the kind of thing that people play the game for over video games.

>>52926287
That could actually be a good idea. I'm more of a fan of letting players try these actions as one of their attacks. If a Rogue wanted to throw a flask of oil or drop a chandelier on someone I'd probably let them Sneak Attack on it. It's inflicting your normal damage + a 1 turn status effect, not OP at all.

How do you handle multiclassing in your games? Is it simple as a player saying they're going to take a level in x class? Or do you put more into it?

I have to deal with one shitty player who tries to pull bullshit 24/7 and really doesn't get into the game. He treats it like skyrim or some other video game. So the restriction in my games is that you have to have an in character reason to want to multiclass and you need someone willing to teach you.

>>52926265
Spear would probably be Monk or a Cleric. Tempest Cleric would be thematic.

>>52926432
i dont allow multiclassing whatsoever

its never been a problem at my table

>>52926426
>That could actually be a good idea.

I wonder why D&D hadn't done that before.

It did. In 4e.

>>52926432
Classes are just grab bags of abilities.

>>52926446
4e's issue was it wasn't at it's core in anyway related to D&D (More so then 1e, 2e, 3e and etc.).

If they called it something else like "Heroes of the Nentir Vale, from the makers of D&D" it would've done better.

Also it had it's own mechanical faults and the style of combat wasn't for everyone. Personally I dislike having my at-will powers when most of them could be called actions. Fun game but the core gameplay isn't what most people look for.

What's a good, unusual way to tackle a Dracolich?

We're a team of 6-7 at level 5/6 and we'll have some support, but the DM has been a dick all campaign and keeps sniggering about how we're going to suck against it, and I want a decent way to go about killing the thing.

>>52926446
>classes are just grab bags of abilities

But shouldn't your abilities fit your character?

>>52926190

Variant human Shadow Monk 6/Battlemaster Fighter
Grab the Spear mastery feat.
Grab the Lunge and Precision maneouver and make melee attacks from 15ft away.

>>52926432
If you can give me a good reason why you're taking the level I'll allow it. Even if you retroactively make up "I was always a fan of magic and studied it a little in my free time, finally got some basic spells working" it's fine.

As long as you can give an answer when Bill asks since when can you cast spells.

>>52926471
It's all in presentation. 5e's classes are literally on the same level as 4e essentials, except with a lot of the good ideas removed from the core system.

>>52926482
But I decide what fits my character, no?

If I envision my character as a magical knight, I would be just as justified with going EK as Bladelock, as Paladin/Sorc or AT/Bladesinger multiclass, depending on the specifics.

>>52925937
Stick to the core Rules until you understand them.
To make a playable skeleton take a human and give him some mostly cosmetic traits.

>>52926421
I do want it to require a lot of effort, but you do have a point about the metagaming aspect... hmm It's not made for a warlock it's made for anyone who would attune to it and reach the designated kill count, at the moment it's in the hands of the party TWF assassin. I'll keep thinking about some ways to buff the upgraded version, the final version gives blindsense and might do an extra 1d6 acid damage.

Neither the DMG nor the PHB have rules for what statlines hirelings are supposed to have, just costs and determining loyalty.

I'd use the NPC profiles in the back of the monster manual, but they're all over the place in terms of CR that I still don't know what the equivalent of an "average" mercenary hireling getting paid 2gp a day looks actually like.

>>52926519
if you have to justify your multiclass you shouldnt be multiclassing lol

multiclass builds are always abusive a mechanic and therefor should be banned in any sensible game

>>52926549
>if you have to justify your multiclass you shouldnt be multiclassing lol

>If you have a reason for thing, you shouldn't do thing

You sure sound like a wise individual

>>52926432
It only becomes an issue when dealing with multiclasses into Warlock, Paladin, or Clerics for me as these require some RP reason to me and I usually ask why would their character want to do this.

It worked out once with the party Barbarian... then he double-crossed the party and joined the BBEG so now they hate him.

>>52926482
Don't be a petty bitch.

I tried to play a martial Warlock noble. His background was that of a stuck up, superiority complex asshole, who tried to become a Paladin, but ended up as a Warlock. I got to level 3 Warlock, and said I planned on taking a couple of levels of fighter. The GM flat out said "don't power game, it doesn't fit your character" - despite the original goal for the character was being a fucking Paladin.

Maybe, just maybe, you just jave no idea what you are talking about. So shut the fuck up, and dont restrict your players "just because", because you are actively ruining character concepts with this kind of bullshit.

Disallow UA multiclassing, obviously, but not standard PHB classes. If some asshat is pulling out 7 books and UA PDFs to make his character, then you can start questioning his choices. When he is sticking 100% to the PHB, you are just screwing with your player for no good reason.

>>52926519
Once again the biggest reason most people dislike 4e. Not everyone's the same. Personally I much prefer the way 5e handles checks, combat and bounded accuracy but I'd still play 4e over 3e any day.

4e had some good ideas for things but I think 5e does a lot better at keeping things manageable by the DM.


Also one of the main reasons people will not be fond of multiclassing Sorcerer Paladin over EK is because while they fulfill the same concept one's a balanced option and the other's a really good option. It becomes harder to balance encounters around a character with the burst power you can bring to the table.

Not to say you shouldn't ask but if a DM tells you no then there's a real reason he said so 99% of the time.

>>52926432

I was playing a rogue
I wanted to multiclass fighter and used my character's previous military training, and my newly begun adventure leading me to retrain as the excuse.
Later, I got a wizard girlfriend in game and decided some cantrips would be useful, also the level 2 divination thing, so I began to study on the road.

As a player I try to make it fit, as a DM I wouldn't really care how they do it, mechanics are for fun and it's all part of the particular character's plan for power anyway.

>>52926549
Are you actually retarded?

>>52926549
>multi-degree careers are always abusive of a system and therefor should be banned in any sensible career

My party is just muderhobos who never even kinda RP, all we do is kill stuff and search dungeons

>>52926544
I'd say scale it with the party and the costs. Skilled hireling, make them CR equal to average party level, maybe -1. Unskilled, half party level.

I don't know if that works out well, but it feels reasonable.

>>52926573
Except... it's an optional rule. Your character there was fine and really your DM shouldn't have shot it down but ask before hand if he's fine with it.

There are plenty of broken things you can do straight out of the PHB and if a DM wants to not have to examine every character sheet then he might say "Guys it's easier if you don't multiclass so I'm not allowing it". It's safer to assume you aren't using any variant rules unless you ask beforehand.

>>52926596
OK

>>52926573
>The GM flat out said "don't power game, it doesn't fit your character"
I love this. Its pretty rare to find a DM who's willing to run the game and your character for you.

>>52926617
How is your campaign anon

>>52926573
Not going to lie. That character sounds like the worst person to adventure with and I can't imagine any situation outside of being forced the party would keep him around.

Your build was fine, but when you actually describe your character as an "Asshole" over "Hard to get along with" then there's an issue.

>>52926613
Except the Arcane Trickster was allowed a level of Wizard. So I think it was fairly safe to assume I could pick a level of fighter.

And even then, yeah, it is an optional rule, like feats, and point buy. If you mean to tell me you aren't using any optional rules, alright, you are the most boring GM ever. If you are using a ton of other variant and optional rules, but arbitrarily disallow multiclassing, you are being an annoying little faggot. The only thing this accomplishes, is being annoying to your players. Nothing else.

>>52926574
>Also one of the main reasons people will not be fond of multiclassing Sorcerer Paladin over EK is because while they fulfill the same concept one's a balanced option and the other's a really good option.

Sorc/Paladin isn't any more OP than EK. Hell, EK gets action surge, making its burst often better than the paladin's. And he doesn't miss out on/delay ASIs and multi-attacks

Most of the time people see a multiclass and assume it must be stronger, when instead many times it's just a different approach. Paladin/Sorc is much better at using spells offensively than the EK, whose best use of spells is using them defensively. That's all.

>>52926653
ur such a bitch lol

go to reddit and give ur sob story there no1 here gives a fuck faggot

>>52926630
Been on pause for a couple of weeks across Easter. We're not murderhobos, but our DM is awful. I think we're about to have the big final battle - trying to work out how to kill a dracolich at lower levels. Any murderhobo tips?

>>52926637
>background
Reading comprehension, yo.

He got a hell of a lot more humble when he made a pact with a fiend, got thrown out and cut off by his family, and was forced to live on the road.

He was still a noble whose backstory was pretty much "I was training to be a holier than thou paladin". His asshole attitude was the reason that didn't work out for him.

He had also been using a Longsword for the first 2 levels, despite not being proficient in it, to work towards the goal of getting a class that actually made him proficient.

>>52926686
It really sounds like you want to be playing something other than D&D to be honest.

>>52926681
>ur
>lol
>reddit
>no1
I am actually getting cancer reading your posts. Holy shit, stop posting you subhuman thrash.

>>52926653
No, it annoyed you because one DM made a mistake. I personally allow everything but the DM was probably not familiar enough with the system to judge power levels.

Plus the it's the DM's game. He's taking time out of his life to do it and has to do more work then other players, there's nothing wrong with running a game the way you want when you're the one making it. If you really dislike his rules then simply don't play at his table, no one forced you to.

Also from a fluff perspective how is the level of Fighter adding something to your Warlock Pact of the Blade doesn't?

>>52926657
The real issue with Paladin and any fullcaster is the amount of smite damage he can do can be overwhelming. The trick is to make wider groups and it harder to take long rests but when people aren't as confident they have the right to say no. Once again if you don't like their rules don't play with them

>>52926148
Hey at least the New Favoured enemy feature should be left as is.

>>52926710
>The real issue with Paladin and any fullcaster is the amount of smite damage he can do can be overwhelming. The trick is to make wider groups and it harder to take long rests but when people aren't as confident they have the right to say no. Once again if you don't like their rules don't play with them

I'm not the guy you think I am. I'm an unrelated anon.

Paladin multiclass delays multiattacks/ASIs/Channel divinities/Auras for smites advancing faster. It's mostly a fair tradeoff.

It wouldn1t be enough for me to not play with the group if they banned multiclassing, if I liked the group, but it would annoy me if their justifications would be shitty.

>>52926704
>le epik grammar man

kys faggot

>>52926737
Exactly. It's trading versatility for the ability to do some other things.

Just when you hit for 1d10+4d8 damage and then 1d4+4d8 newer people generally think you've made the most OP thing ever. Without realising that's all your best resources gone. Once people know what they're doing they should realise that.

>>52926698
It sounds to me that he's been roleplaying his character while his DM was being a fag who only selectivley applies his own standards towards players he doesn't like.

It's a That DM situation.

>>52926113
Strong? Yes. It's a top tier class now and some things need to be weakened. It's not the most OP thing out there though.

>>52925937
There's a skeleton race on page 282 of the DMG.

>>52926710
>Also from a fluff perspective how is the level of Fighter adding something to your Warlock Pact of the Blade doesn't?
Not "a level" - several.

It adds martial abilities. It makes him more durable, and grants access to combat manoeuvres at level 3.

It adds a lot of options and makes him a proper fighter. The idea is to keep them mostly even, likely ending in a 11 Warlock 9 fighter.

Or that was the intention anyway, until the GM shit on it for giggles.

>>52926573
I screw with my player because he's a 500lbs lying, cheating bastard who thinks he's playing skyrim. He's a lard ass who doesn't RP, wants to make edge Lord characters and play out his fantasy of being a 6'2 blonde nordic faggot. So when he comes to me and begs to be an oath breaker or multiclass into a bunch of retarded shit or lie about the rules I tell him to get fucked. He's only at the table because me and the other players get a laugh out of bullying him.

>>52926586
That works fine. What I have a problem with is someone saying they're an established fighter and then suddenly they decide they want to start taking levels in druid. Why? I ask "because I want to shape-shift dood" the fat cunt replies.

>>52926840
Your DM does sound like he was pretty shit but just keep it in mind and make sure to tell the DM before the game if you plan to multiclass. If he says no then you either play something else or find a better DM.

Hey 5eg, is the Rock Gnome's Tinker trait overpowered? My DM said it was and wouldn't let me use the music box option until I multiclassed bard. I tried to counter with "does a dwarf need to be a fighter to swing an axe?", but then the DM simply stated that dwarfs were banned at the table because they were worse than kender.

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super new to the game and already stuck on creating a character, could someone explain how hitpoints work in very very simply? preferably explain everything in this image such as what hit dice are an how to level up hit points?

>>52926878
Either you're a troll and just dicking around (It is that time where you all wake up) or your DM's a shit and leave the game.

>>52926761
You first sempai.

>>52926890
I at first thought the DM was insane, but the players share the DM's opinions and a couple of them DM for other games, so I thought I was the odd one out. Maybe I'm the only sane one. I don't know.

>>52926938
They're all retards. Like should have a carer retarded.

>>52926887
read the book

>>52926887
When you create your character, you have hit points equal to the highest roll on your hit die (in this case a 6) plus your constitution modifier. When you gain a level in a class, you gain another hit die, roll it, add your constitution modifier to the roll, then add that total to your hit point total. For example, your wizard has a d6 hit die and a CON of 13. at 1st level, you have 7 hit points (max roll + CON mod). Then you gain a second level in Wizard, so you now have 2 hit dice, both of which are d6s. Roll your new hit die, and add your CON mod again. Let's say you rolled a 3. 3+1 from the CON means an additional 4 health putting your new max hit points at 11.

>>52926710
>The real issue with Paladin and any fullcaster is the amount of smite damage he can do can be overwhelming.
How can you be so wrong, while still being sort of right?
The issue isn't the smite damage - fuck thy mother, get one of the smiting invocations and you'll smite for WAY MORE DAMAGE - but the number of encounters per day.
Any full caster will dish out outrageous damage, if he can just burst everything out in one encounter. As a martial, the PalaSorc can step back to martial fighting, but that's weak, and only good for throwaway encounters, like a cleric can just bless+cantrips and still be a valued member of the team encounter after encounter.

Check the fullcasters'privilege, keep to 6-to-8 encounters per long rest, with 2 short rests in between, and those smites won't be 'too much', they'll be used only on crits or in critical fights.

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Fuck dude! Is that a motherfucking Undertale reference!

>>52926887
At lvl 1 the class determines your HP and thereafter each level you gain in it you get HP as the class perscribes.

Example:
You play a Monk with a +2 Con modifier.
The Monk at lvl 1 has a HP of 8+your Con modifier which is 10 HP in total.
At lvl 2 you add 1d8+Con mod HP Or 5+Con mod HP to that.
So if we go with the 5+Con mod method you end up with 17HP at lvl 2.
Repeat this simple adition each time you level up.
If your Con goes up by a +1 modifier you retroactivley UP your HP for each level in that class by 1.

Hit DIce are the dice you roll when you rest to recover HP.
The type of die depends on the Class (1d6,1d8 or 1d10) and their number depends on the ammount of levels you have in that class.

>>52926973
i dont get it because i dont play faggot trash games

kys undertale fag

>>52926952
Unrelated to the question, but the topic is interesting.

Who actually rolls for HP?

I usually run it as you gain the stated number + con mod. After a rather unfortunate situation where we had a Monk with more HP than the Barbarian, we settled on that instead, to avoid having that kind of situation again (the Barbarian literally never rolled above a 2 on his d12, which Really adds up in the long run.

>>52926952
great, explained it really well, thanks man

>>52926993
You roll for your HP, but I can understand houseruling the average plus CON especially after something like that
>>52926996
No problem

>>52926993
our dm has only run max hp and its worked well for us

>>52926973
There are several meme shit tier feats.

Elves has Always Strike First from WHFB.

>>52926993
>A paper tiger Barbarian

The player can choose to roll the HP die or take the perscribed HP.
So you can risk it rolling that 1d12 or take the 7 HP as perscribed in the class description.

>>52927014
Nice and simple, i like it. Does he send tougher baddies at you guys to spice things up since you all have so much health every now and then?

>>52927014
That might actually be a better solution. HP never gets too out of control anyway, and it makes your hit die really mean something.

>>52926968
I agree it's not too bad. I said it's overwhelming for DM's.

See, when you can quicken BB at level 5 (2 Paladin/ 3 Sorcerer) you can burst suddenly for 8d8+4d6+6 damage easy, and then do it again next turn for 2d8 less. That's an average of 56 damage and next level it goes up another 2d8. It'll keep getting bigger as well.

I'm not saying it's OP or anything because other classes can do the same shit. However that much damage can easily wreck a boss.

New DM's don't realise a character bursting that hard is reasonable and have issues. The trick is to make sure to throw enough encounters at them that hitting that hard isn't worth it all the time.

>>52926993
I roll on my Sorcerer. I have +5 HP per level from Race and Class so a low d6 roll isn't too bad.

>>52927032
Yeah, he likes making tough encounters, and we usually run low/mid level campaigns. In our current one that's been going on for about a year and a half now combat has been really rough on us since our party is a barbarian/fighter/2 rogues/wizard. Absolutely no healing and totally unforgiving.

So I have been playing a lot of Pillars of Eternity lately, and the Health -> Endurance mechanic is growing in me.

How would you most reasonably translate this to 5e? Say your maximum health is 3xHP, and when you hit that, you take critical damage of some kind?

It allows permanent injuries from really painful attacks, or if you just keep trying to patch up the same guy over and over again.

3 times your HP max seems fitting, as it potentially allow you to regain a lot from short rests and healers kits without any problems, and only comes into question if someone is spamming heals on the same person forever, or if someone does something really stupid.

Case in point, someone dropping out of a magical airship, taking 82 points of damage out of his 22 hit points, and just getting an instant healing word from the cleric on the ground. No penalties at all.

What do you guys think? Any adjustments I should make, or some options I should include?

>>52927086
Sounds fun. I just DMd a game where the Wizard was used as a hand grenade to deal with some orcs. He got a little big forhis little britches and ended up running into melee to Burning Hands a group of 8 but he rolled low on damage and just pissed them off, pretty bad idea considering the party of 6 had literally no healing

>>52927107
Vitality rule. It's actually really good.

>>52927107
>Case in point, someone dropping out of a magical airship, taking 82 points of damage out of his 22 hit points, and just getting an instant healing word from the cleric on the ground. No penalties at all.
>What is Massive Damage

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>>52925801
I'm currently playing a Goliath with 16 STR our game is using the variant encumbrance rules

So let me get this straight my carry capacity is doubled due to the racial and is 480lbs yet I'm encumbered at 5x my STR so 80lbs.

Whats the point in being able to carry that much if I'm weighed down by almost nothing?

Am I being retarded?

>>52927107
In theory, HP were supposed to be your endurance, and hit dice your health pool of a sorts (actually, your HPs while you still had hit dice to sped = endurance, your HPs when out of hit dice = health), but that got fucked up when spells got to heal without spending hit dice.
You could have spells only heal if you spend an hit dice, and then either heal the spell amount or heal the hit dice amount, but that would be WAY deadlier and untested, you should probably double the amount of hit dice for everybody and make 'damage sharing' abilities more common.

>>52927122
God bless, our wizard had a similar issue versus some orcs just last session. He was a good ways away but hadn't thought of just how fast orcs can run someone down and they had gotten pretty pissed off at his aoe spells, he nearly died.

>>52927168
He didnt nearly died he DID died.

>>52927143
5x STR is 80 and then it's doubled to 160 I'm pretty sure. Think of it this way, the rogue can likely carry 40lbs.

>>52927143
If you're using encumbrance, you've got to remember the first thing that soldiers had to do upon contact with the enemy
>drop your packs
all your shit, you can get it back later.

>>52927131
Alright we forgot that.

Still, the amount of times we have a "give a hit point to the downed guy, can't heal him enough to avoid getting smudged by that Ogre doing 10+ damage every round." Is way too high.

>>52927163
I am not a fan of using the hit dice for that. I dont mind healing magic, I just need a cap somewhere. Even with divine healing, if you've taken 300 out of your 30 hit points in damage over the course of a day, you aren't "fine" because someone used a healers kit on you. You are a mess, and everything hurts like hell, if you are even capable of staying conscious.

>>52927107
I had an idea: When you take damage that reduces you to 0 hit points, or take damage while you are dying, your hit point maximum is reduced by an amount equal to the leftover damage. This reduction lasts until you finish a long rest. What do you guys think?

>>52927345
I dig it. Means you can't death tank and gives a sense of being wounded after tough battles.

>>52927329

>I am not a fan of using the hit dice for that. I dont mind healing magic, I just need a cap somewhere. Even with divine healing, if you've taken 300 out of your 30 hit points in damage over the course of a day, you aren't "fine" because someone used a healers kit on you. You are a mess, and everything hurts like hell, if you are even capable of staying conscious.

That's what 4e Healing Surges were for. They represented your allover endurance (Hence why failing endurance tests could cost you some healing surges) where HP represented your ability to keep going right now.

Someone on 100% HP but 0 surges is tired, fatigued but still got fight in them. They are ready to give a shaky smile and charge the guards but they are clearly on their last legs.

Someone on 1 HP but full surges is badly on the back foot. They are staggered and confused and overwhelmed but if you give them time to recover and wipe the blood out of their eyes they'll be fine and ready to go.

Magic can heal your wounds to an extent. It won't restore your vim and endurance. You'll still be just as damn tired as you were before, even if you can move again.

How much do you keep your fighting to core rules, and how much do you allow unusual tactics?

Like if a player said "I aim my bow at his hand and try to shoot his weapon out of it" would you run with it or not?

Personally I like letting the players try whatever occurs to them and ruling for it on the fly, it feels more immersive.

>>52927397
That's in the DMG and a real rule

>>52927397
>>52927408
The Disarm attack option from page 271 of the DMG, for any of those wondering.

>>52927408
>>52927433

Only in the example provided.

Aimed attacks get dumb with "I aim an arrow at his eye to kill him fuckin' instantly".

>>52927397
>>52927487
True. If the player wants to create a temporary condition like disarmed, knocked back, or prone, then it would be contested attack rolls or ability checks as a special attack or action, no damage. If the player wants to permanently cripple the target, like an arrow to the eye, then they can only do so when they land a critical hit or reduce the target to 0 hit points.

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So what was the verdict on the Artificer? Is it worth playing if the GM only lets you create canon magical items? How about the gun route, Is that any good?

>>52926123
>the shadow dragon is a shapeshifter too
FOOLISH ADVENTURERS

>>52926973
row row fight the powah

>>52927654
The Thundercannon has the same damage progression as the rogue's Sneak Attack.

>>52927107
>when the player character loses more than half their total HP from a single action, they sustain a critical wound. Roll on the appropriate table below, sorted by the source of damage. (If several causes of damage, the DM picks which result applies.)

Then make the tables.

>>52927654

The gun is...weird. The Artificer is a class based around shit tonnes of magic items but there is no ability to actually make a magic gun for yourself.

It honestly needs more casting to make better use of it's own features as it has too small a spell list and too low level stuff to access quite a few creation sort of spells or a lot of buffs that would be nice to hand off via your class feature.

That and it REALLY needed something to say you can make new magic items if your old ones get destroyed/lost as the class can permanently lose class features and that kinda sucks horribly.

>>52927654
It's basically an Arcane Trickster with some better stuff and some worse stuff. Perfectly usable though.

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>>52927107
see pic. the fall should have killed that motherfucker.

>>52927731
>character loses more than half their total HP from a single action
And no character ever for got to level 3 without a serious injury ever again.

>>52927745
It should be a Half-Caster with some unique spells and after a long rest swap one of your class magic items for another one.

>>52927748
Read the thread mate.

>>52927751
Most critical injuries can be fixed in dnd with relative ease. The top of the chart should probably be temporary by default, negative stats until long rest. Limbing until long rest. Disadvantage until long rest. Bleeding until medical attention has been provided.

>>52927757

Yeah. That is my judgement.

It's a bit all over the place as it didn't quite have a coherent vision of what it wanted other than 'Artificer!'

I'd have likely have scrapped the whole 'Needs your bonus action to reload' thing on the gun and just made the shot types (Extra damage/template etc) only apply to your first shot in a turn. As it doesn't multiclass well if you want to make a rifleman or a sniping rogue.

Oh yeah: And let you pick medium/small size animals for your mechanical companion. As right now the animal options are seriously, seriously limited and if it's not going to scale it should at least let you have a mechanical hawk to scout for you.

What Find Steed mount would be fitting for a Dragonborn Paladin of Bahamut?

I can't quite find a good option. Warhorse just seems too good to pass up, but it feels... inappropriate.

Or should I just ask for a reskinned warhorse?

>>52927787
If I could be fucked I'd try to make a redone version and fix some things. Might do up a pdf tomorrow of it and see if I can fix it.

>>52927804

That would be cool to see. I like the ideas behind the artificer, I'm just not sure that the end result makes them mesh well into a coherent class.

>>52927798
Warhorse that looks like an armored Allosaurus

Is there an easy way to get a list of all cantrips that

a) don't involve attack rolls or saving throws
b) don't need concentration
c) have a casting time of one action?

>>52927969
There's not that many cantrips anon, go read them and screenshot those you need or whatever.

>>52927969
PHB:
Blade Ward
Druidcraft
Mage Hand
Message
Prestidigitation
Spare the Dying
Thaumaturgy

Elemental Evil:
Mold Earth
Shape Water

>>52927969
I don't remember any cantrips having concentration.

>>52928059
Create Bonfire and prestidigitation has a concentration component, off the top of my head.

>>52928059
Player's Handbook:
Dancing Lights
Friends
Guidance
Resistance
True Strike

Elemental Evil:
Create Bonfire

>>52928102
>>52928109
Hah, serves me right for not going over the list for so long. Guess the concentration just never stuck out to me.

Cheers.

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I feel cheated, /tg/. I'm playing Hoard of the Dragon Queen as a Barbarian. It's my first campaign ever and I'm having a lot of fun. Spoilers ahead.

We're at the end of the first chapter, where this big, badass Dragonborn comes out and demands to fight the keep's strongest fighter. That's me, level 3 Barb. I go out there, exchange trash talk, and begin the fight. Thanks to my Rage and a few good rolls, I manage to deal almost 60 damage to this guy in two rounds. I say almost 60 because I don't remember exactly how much, but it was more than 55.

Anyway, he hits me three times in one turn, bringing me from 37 hp to 6. I realized later that the DM fucked up and didn't take into account my damage resistance, I should have been at 23. Still, I take another swing and he catches my hand and lightning breaths me to 0 hp.

Now, I'm pretty pissed off. Not because I lost a fight I was supposed to lose, but because I should have won. I couldn't sleep this morning so I decided to look at this motherfucker's stats. He has 57 health, which I very easily could have dealt already, or would have dealt on my next hit. Also, I was never given the chance to roll the DC13 Dex saving throw, which I would have had advantage on.

Am I right to be mad about this? It's been real-world weeks since this happened, so there's no retconning, but goddamn it I feel cheated out of a massive victory.

>>52928144
You are right to be upset. That's sort of the point of the encounter, I think (HotDQ is trash).

You are not right to look up the stats of an enemy, and drawn conclusions from that, since the DM can just change the stats on the fly.

>>52927107
>If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points... If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death. (phb 198)

ANY damage after they hit 0, not damage taken the turn after they hit 0. That includes the same damage that took them to 0 in the first place.

>>52928167
I have to agree. HotDQ was being written before the core rulebooks were finished, so the module is inconsistent with some of 5E's rules and design philosophies, as well as just being plain sloppy. It didn't help that when I was going through it the DM was stubborn and immature.

>>52928219
Congratulations, you are the third person to point it out.

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Hey /5eg/

Running a dialogue driven character building session soon. What kind of background questions would be good to ask besides the obvious ones?

They already know what classes and stuff they are. I need questions for backstory related things.

>>52928421
Define "the obvious ones".

Passive checks for recalling information with Intelligence skills, is it a good idea?

>>52928453
no thats stupid

>>52928144
Isn't it a level 1 encounter?

>>52928468
Why should remembering information be luck based? Wouldn't you either know the information or not?

Also stops the issue of everyone make an Arcana Check to see if someone knows. You can safely and easily rule they don't understand the runes on the wall rather then one of them randomly knowing.

>>52928511
Not him, I'd imagine you'd need to account for recalling from memory and not actually dredging up useless or tangential information.

>>52928511
You know a lot of things, but can you recall everything you know on demand?

Is giving a creature immunity to +1 (or +2 or +3) attacks and limited magic immunity up to 7th level spells a bad idea?

>>52928446
I'm doing it in the form of a bard getting material for a song, so they will be pretty straightforward.

>What made you decide to be a (class)?
>What was your life as a kid?
>How did you find yourself here?
>Do you worship any powerful deities or beings?

Etc.

>>52928453
Sounds good to me. Passive checks for information the player might not ask for but is pertinent nonetheless, active checks when the player does ask.

>>52928552
Are the characters facing it level 20 or have some way to ignore the immunities?

>>52928511
Something like Eidetic Memory as a feat should give an bonus to Int and call for passive checks for Int skills.

>>52928572
They'd definitely be level 20 and likely to the other question.

>>52928581
Then why bother

>>52928587
That's, like, just your opinion, man.

>>52928573
You mean like.. Keen Mind..?

>>52928511
Isn't rolling represent recalling information at the exact moment?

If you are in a rush of combat (running,dodging, casting spells), you might not be able to recall of the detail of a dragon or vampire weakness.

Hell, most of the people can't even recall PHB's rule during combat in a make-believe game.

I agree that there shouldn't be a check outside of combat though.

>>52928623
What's keen mind?

>>52928654

You have a mind that can track time, direction, and detail with uncanny precision. You gain the following benefits:

• Increase your Intelligence score by 1, to a maximum of 20.

• You always know which way is north.

• You always know the number of hours left before the next sunrise or sunset.

• You can accurately recall anything you have seen or heard within the past month.

Source: Player's Handbook, page 167

>>52928511
>Why should remembering information be luck based?

It isn't. You should remember the shit yourself. Take notes if you have trouble.

>>52927798
A Guard Drake with dumbed down scores to match in CR level to a warhorse

>>52928651
>ok so i want to stab the vampire with my garlic infused wooden stake
>sure, roll to remember the weakness
>1
>sorry you have to use your sword

So I developed a stupid puzzle. Well, it's not so much a puzzle as a door.

>delving deeper into the cave, the cramped tunnel gives way to a large, ornately designed atrium with a pit bisecting the room. On the opposite of you and the pit that is 10 ft wide, the dwarvish mosaics point toward a large stone doorway. There is a pedestal in front of you, the dwarvish runes are faced but you make it: what is the reverse of Dow-The last letter in the word appears to be missing.

I throw a torch over the pit.
>The torch immediately plummets into the pit, not even making a foot past the ledge.
Wod wod wod, not working
I'm going to jump across and activate my ring of jumping
>you get a running start and make a mighty leap, as you reach halfway across you begin to slow and descend. Rapidly.
So? Where am I
>falling, for a long, long time
OH hey DOWN! Lol so reverse is UP!
>stone begins to form a bridge over the pit
what the fuck, is my character dead? in that retard puzzle
>eventually you will starve
Fuck you

>>52928552
Previous editions had creatures immune to weapons below a certain level, but also often had an exception to that immunity. You could have a creature immune to +1 or lower weapons, but take normal damage from silvered weapons, or a creature pure of heart, or a make-believe sword imagined three times then once in reverse during on the night of the winter equinox, or honey badgers. For spells you could have something similar, like being affected normally by abjuration spells, or spells cast from scrolls drawn from the skin of a virgin elf, or spells channeled through honey badgers. The point was that low level characters could fight the thing if they prepared for it, but higher level characters didn't have to fret over the immunities of comparatively trivial monsters.

>>52928871
Or you could just play the Honeybadger race like seriously what the fuck WotC why did this make it through playtesting

>>52928829
> garlic
you already failed your knowledge roll

>>52928552
immunity to magic weapon? what? Why would you give player loots to make them feel more powerful and then take it effect away from them? That's just a bad game design and not fun.

>>52928927
Yeah, the ones over here are allergic to lemons.

Fucking lemons! Where the hell am I supposed to get a lemons in the middle of the steppe?

>>52928651
I consider knowledge checks to be attempts to access knowledge they have always had, not recall under duress.

Ideally you only have to make a knowledge check about a specific topic once, but if you roll a 1 on knowledge skeletons that just means you've never bothered studying skeletons and have no knowledge. until that changes, every skeleton you encounter you'll know nothing about.

>>52928837
You're right, that is stupid.

>>52928977
Please read PHB, especially on intelligence ability check before continuing your (wrong) assumption. PHB clearly state that it's the ability to recall infomation.

Or go back to /pfg/.

Actually
> using critical fail on skill check
Just get out.

>>52929053
I didn't imply a critical fail, I implied a 1 on knowledge check without proficiency and without any attribute bonus.

But I will double check the PHB, just seems stupid to be able to roll knowledge about something 100 times.

>>52929084
Just like other ability check (like climbing), if you are in the situation where you can keep rolling the same thing over and over (like outside of combat), then you shouldn't call out for a roll in the first place.

>>52929196
So if you have Knowledge (Dragons), outside of combat you know everything there is to know about dragons? Since knowledge is untrained does that mean everybody in the world knows everything in the multiverse?

>>52926478
Well what size and what colour

Really a dracolich is out of your league at level 5/6. And you'd need to destroy its phylactery anyway

>>52928977
>I consider knowledge checks to be attempts to access knowledge they have always had, not recall under duress.
That's like, the exact opposite of what the skill check is for

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>>52925916
Made but haven't played yet would be the Goliath Barbarian who married a diplomat or minor noble (depends on what the DM will allow) but is adventuring because his wife's station or house is in jeopardy due to the marriage. Deciding the best course of action is to go out and become a famous hero to help bring stability to his home and so he can be the hero his daughter always sees him as.

Everyone of my friends has made characters that have no family or are on "I don't care" terms. Once someone else DMs I'm making something different.

>>52929256
With a party that size a single Dracolich should be very hard but doable, might wipe most of them if it doesn't knock them out at the least. Plus Dracolich phylacteries only let them rez if it gets touched to another adult dragon's corpse, it doesn't regen a new body

>>52929256
>>52929297

Don't know yet. We only know that the enemy forces are commanded by a dracolich and it's likely to be at our next battle, and that it's weak to fire.

We might have some level of control over the battlefield if we get there first, we know where it's planning to attack.

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I heard that 5e is balanced towards expecting something like 3 short rests for every 1 long rest.

Is it possible to balance encounters more towards expecting a long rest between each encounter (I might have to do it considering the setting of my campaign)? Would it basically mean making every fight a big epic one?

>>52926993
Our DM lets us roll for fun, but take the standard / average of the roll is less than that. This applies to character creation and hit dice.

>>52925916
His name was Henk. A half-orc Barb that was your typical dumb and angery hit things hard man. ALmost one-shot a young adult red dragon at level 10 as well as nearly one shotting a djinn in the same session. It's the only time I've gotten to use him but i've been wanting to give him more of a story to make him turn up as a BBEG in a campaign just because of how hard he wrecked face.

>>52929314
Sure.

You are fucking a lot of classes very hard, and should probably tell people to not play those classes. Monks, certain fighters, warlocks, etc. Are all examples of classes that are weaker, but make up for it by getting a lot of use out of short rests.

You are essentially nerfing them.

If you do go through with this, at least give these classes 3 times the resources they'd normally have. That puts them on par with stuff like regular spell casters.

>>52929362
This.

You essentially can't balance the encounters around it, because the issue is in the classes and how their mechanics work.

Take everything that refreshes on a short rest and tripple the amount of uses/points/whatever. That would be my suggestion at least. I do this when a party begins forcing long rests instead of just taking a short rest. You'll probably havw a wizard faggot complain, but whatever.

>>52926993
1st Level = Max
Level up = Roll, take average if you roll less than average

Max HP at every level is fun too though, can make things a little tougher.

>>52929269

So then does that mean that, when not under duress you have perfect recall and a complete understanding of every topic.

Can someone explain how to add short rests into the adventuring day? My players will typically visit a location, say a bandit camp, clear it out and return to town. Is this an "incorrect" way of playing?

>>52929443
Make more complications pop up along the way. Pretty much drain their resources to where a short rest is actually beneficial.

>>52929362
>>52929395

Thanks. I'm not trying to take away player choice in classes, so I'll go the route of buffing them if necessary.

>>52929443
That's fine. Short rests happen in our games mid dungeon if a combat goes poorly, when the party is worn or out of resources, or wen they need to just sit and strategize about something. You could just see them as your 3 meals a day, bathroom breaks, whatever. If a short romp in the woods doesn't require a short rest, then don't bother with one. But dungeons and stuff should be big enough to see them at least once, I would say. Whatever keeps the whole party involved and useful.

>>52929314
Yes but like the other guy said, you should account that many classes need short rests to stay competitive. What I generally do is allow for moments that you can short rest, a short rest is one hour and unless they stay in the same place where they killed a goblin patrol I the chances of not having the full benefit of a short rest is as unlikely as if they were traveling. And at worst they'll just get another visitor at the end of their short rest, hopefully letting them know that resting is good but not in the same place you murdered some guys.

>>52929460
>>52929473

Thanks, makes more sense looking at it like this.

>>52929314
That is a game editing project where you would want your entire group involved in order to properly workshop it and experiment. Figuring out how to properly change the game to fit your purposes would pretty much become your game.

I'm looking to get into D&D, played 2 sessions with my RL friends and really enjoyed it but not sure if it's going to last or not. Where else can I get my D&D fix?

>>52929443
That sounds like a super slow and uneventful day.

First, Throw an encounter at them on the way to the bandit camp. Some scouts maybe, if it has to be related to the camp. Short rest before engaging the camp.

Make them short rest after clearing the camp, and throw another encounter at them on the way back.

Make a third encounter during the evening, after they got dinner for their third short rest.

Short rests are just small breaks. You stop for lunch or dinner, and that is 2 short rests already.

As someone who mostly GMs, I'd give my players a ton of penalties for just skipping short rests. This is your daily breaks. Nobody Take a well to going at it from sunrise until sunset. Maybe that 20 con barbarian, but the rest of the bunch, especially the casters, will need a seriously good explanation for how they can be physically active for that long in a row.

Not to mention straight up not allowing people to spam long rests. This isnt a fucking video game, you can't just rest 8 hours, be active for 2, and then sleep another 8. That's not even allowed by RAW.

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>>52929478
I think I should've clarified why my players aren't getting any short rests between encounters.

My intention is not to utterly deprive them of all short rests, my intention is that getting a good night's sleep is easily and readily available, because the campaign is mainly going to take place in and around heavily urbanized zones. In other words, after every fight, I expect the players to be able to retire for a good night's rest unless I give them some kind of time-sensitive task to do (and I can't do that for every single quest handed to them).

TL;DR The problem I'm having with balancing encounters isn't deprivation of rests, it's overabundance.

>>52929426
Do you, after maybe participating in a form of schooling, have perfect recall and complete understanding of any topic?
Do you roll a die and suddenly regurgitate the contents of the library of Alexandria?

>>52929213
> knowledge (dragon)
GO BACK TO FREAKING /PFG/ ALREADY

I AM MAD.

> Since knowledge is untrained does that mean everybody in the world knows everything in the multiverse?

You can't recall stuff that you don't know about. Go read the PHB already instead of using your retard logic of the previous system.

>>52925823
Yes

>>52929528
Ty senpai, I'm still pretty new at DM'ing so I'm still trying to improve in a few areas.

>>52929579
Oh whatever knowledge (nature) involving dragons, you knew exactly what I meant. I've never played pathfinder.

I did read the player's handbook section, it says nothing about the stuff you know, just about recall. If the roll is only about recall, and knowledge skills are untrained, and we're using your no roll outside of combat rule, that would mean everyone in the world knows everything and has perfect recall unless they're in combat. And that's stupid.

>>52929553
This makes daily resource casters massively powerful.

You can either make everyone cast like them (basically, triple the number of uses of everyone has of all of their short rest skills) OR make everyone cast like Warlocks.

>>52929553
Then just make short rests 10-15 minutes long.

One long rest per fight heavily favors classes that can go nova with all their resources in a single fight, like every caster outside of Warlock.

>>52929659
>Then just make short rests 10-15 minutes long.

I'll probably roll with that, as it's something I'm familiar with doing for 4e. Thanks.

>>52929553
Steal the wizard's spellbook.

>>52929628
>that would mean
No, it wouldn't.

>>52928421
>>52928561
Bumponthis

>tfw whenever I ask /5eg/ a question is gets washed out by some pedantic argument

>>52929708
Yes it would because if there is no base knowledge the character has the default is nothing or everything and nothing would be useless. At best the whole description of how it works is poorly worded, at worst it doesn't work at all.

>>52929767
No, you're wrong.

>>52929787
Ok. How and why am I wrong? Explain it to me. Clearly the book can't do it.

So I'm killing Variant Humans AND racial stat bonuses, because I think it's stupid that if you want to play, say, a Barbarian, there's never any reason to go Gnome, or to be a Dwarf Wizard unless you want to wear armor and shit.

What's some shit that can define Humans as far as racial features go that isn't just "hu hu you learn shit faster" like extra skill or tool proficiencies? I know there's the whole "never give up, never say die" spirit but making them hardy bastards steps on the toes of Dwarves and Orcs, who I'm intending to be the races that don't give a fuck.

So spitball some shit at me. I've got
>Once per long rest, you gain advantage on an attack roll, saving throw, or skill check
from that racial feat UA baked in now which is cool I guess but all the other races are swimming in features and Humans are just like, whatever.

How do you differentiate humans?

>>52929213
>>52929628
>>52929767
For someone arguing about knowledge checks you don't seem to have rolled very high.

>>52929767
DC 21.
How will you reach it?
Also!
Read the damn DMG.
>>52929765
Phoneposting, I have some ideas I'll type when I get on my PC.

>>52929814
Didn't you just eliminate every non RR purpose of race?

>>52929825
Apparently the DC doesn't matter outside of combat according to >>52929196

>>52929841
>non RR
RR?

>>52929860
it's a /pol/ thing

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>>52929814
>So I'm killing Variant Humans AND racial stat bonuses, because I think it's stupid

I think your obsession with optimization is stupid.
My campaign is all variant humans of different cultures. One of them took Athletic, the other Keen Mind, because they are not min-maxing asshats or the equally bad "no one should be inherently better at anything than anyone else", as if an Icelander shouldn't have a racial bonus to strength higher than Japanese, even if both are fishermen.

You've clearly decided to go with your own watered-down races, and now you want us to make them special again?

>>52929847
So you ARE dumb.
Ok, I'll explain.
Take a d20.
An untrained person has to training, so no proficiency.
Let's assume it isn't a gifted individual and go with 10 int.
So, now you have all the time in the world to roll the d20.
You can, with enough time, roll every number within the 1-20 range.
But never a 21 or higher.
>>52929860
Sorry, RP. Phoneposting is bad.
>>52929876
Wat.

>>52929913
Was that so hard ya smarmy prick?

>>52929806
You are wrong because you are assuming rules where there are none. You are also wrong because you are stating that there are only All or Nothing options with no in-between. You are wrong because for whatever reason you think that since Nothing would be useless it cannot be Nothing, but that Everything is not equally as poor of an option. As long as you continue thinking like you do, you cannot be taught regardless of the source.

>>52929952

Yeah, making assumptions to fill in holes I see in the wording. Rules should be explained clearly and in detail. It's easy enough to understand >>52929913 if you've been doing this forever, but not if you're new. Shows how shitty a community this place is when people start being assholes right out of the gate instead of just giving an answer when they know it.

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Myself, I go with skill Proficiency being necessary to bring up the most esoteric bits of lore or technique.
Thus anyone can roll INT (Arcana) to know that Were-Jaguars are vulnerable to Obsidian, but it requires proficiency in KS Arcana to roll a check to know that they must visit the spring known as the Jaguar's Mirror every new moon to maintain their powers.

But that's just how I roll.

>>52929814
There is never any reason to Gnome. Conceptually the race is fucking absurd in any setting that contains halflings.

>>52929913
As far as eliminating non-RP purpose, I'm still giving the races a bunch of features.
Elves still go into a meditative trance instead of sleeping and can hide in light foliage or mist,
Dwarves still don't give a shit about poison (plus weather extremes) and know a lot about stone and metal,
Gnomes >>52930044 basically fart magic and are also the only race with subraces (but based on cultural castes instead of genetic differences) with one of 'em being the leaders and tinkers and the other being a servile peasant caste that lives innajungle and does all the labor while trying not to get eaten by tigers,
Halflings are Gnomes who ran off and eventually become fucking Mongolians.

My goal is that if anyone's going to min-max race and class, they're doing it for features rather than the baked-in stat increases that say Orcs are good martials and Gnomes are good Wizards and Mystics.

>>52930010
Where the fuck do you think you are? This isn't daycare.

>>52930010
Bring the smarmy prick, I'll tell you you managed to stumble an almost every button on /5eg/hate-board.
It looked like you were being purposefully obtuse, even if you were just asking.

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>>52930056
>My goal is that if anyone's going to min-max race and class
You can't mechanically make shitty, unimaginative players build characters in a non-shitty imaginative way.

The path you are going down is just going to put off players period.

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>>52930056
Oh and additionally, the fact that you are coming to Munchkin central for advice, tells me that you lack the skills, talent and experience as a DM to sell this concept to prospective players in the first place.

>>52929814
At that point you may as well just convert the racial features into feats.

>>52930162
>>52930104
>talks about a campaign where everything's variant human
>applauds his players for taking stat-boosting feats instead of GWM or Sharpshooter and holds this up as an example of imagination
I think you've lived up your ass for so long you've grown accustomed to the stink of your own shit, avatarfag.

>>52930056
Sorry mate, that's the kind of thing you need your player's collaboration to pull off. You will just have unhappy halforc barbarians and unhappy elf wizards.

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>>52925801
>Which class/subclass is the most fun to play?

Thief. Unquestionably thief.

>>52930209
What the fuck.

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>>52930209
Go ahead, let it all out.
All the pent-up frustration of not actually playing in a running campaign, let alone a good one.

Am I right in saying the PC Lizardman knows how to make a shield, but not how to use one?

>>52930251
You'll need to tell us more.

>>52930251
Don't YOU know how to make a shield, Anon?

>>52930251
You can be a blacksmith and not be proficient with a Halberd, you know.

>>52926446
Didn't Pathfinder have it's own version also, called Dirty Tricks?

>>52929628
> that would mean everyone in the world knows everything

This is the part where you get it wrong. You are still thinking the roll is representing "knowledge the character know" and not "recalling" stuff.

Whether the PC or NPC learn and have knowledge about X topic is depending on the DM. If they don't know about it then they don't get to roll because there is no chance of success.

>>52926267
Psionics.

>>52930305
I have to ask, why correct a 7 hours old post?

>>52930337
>he doesn't get paid per post

>tfw your characters die so often you've stopped caring about them
I'm either really shit at the game or the DM hates me

>>52930371
Have any of the other players at the table lost characters?

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Roleplay tips for a Lizardfolk youngling who's tribe was slaughtered and was found by a group of Adventurers?

a buddy of mine is playing a priest who is guiding me on the ways of civilization. "you can't eat the dead and turn their ribs into shields buddy"

>>52930486

The flavor text for them in Volo's Guide to Monsters is a good place to start.

>>52930480
One or two, but nowhere near as much as me

>>52926613
>There are plenty of broken things you can do straight out of the PHB
Uh... Like what? Paladin/Warlock? If you call that broken, oh boy.

>>52930550
Is it usually in a combat, or is it in some kind of "rocks fall, you die" type of thing?

>>52930260
The stats of the Lizardman in Volo's guide say it can make a shield with the Cunning Artisan feature, but doesn't say it can use it. Is it assumed or is it an oversight?

White plume mountain

Had a lvl 7 warforged samurai die.

>clear the two wings
>going to the third
>come up to conductive hallway
>further down the 90 ft hallway you get, the hotter metal becomes.
>the first character to walk down the hallway was a barbarian who kept chucking his axe
>the second was an artificier who put all of his buckles and gun into his bag of holding after burning his hands
>the warforged samurai up until this point insisted that his outer skin was metal and he was a terminator/iron man and bought platemail to reinforce his frame
>he does not take off his full plate armor, which I ask him about twice
>I tell him that as he gets further down the hall the armor and his body glow with heat, and he takes 7 fire damage
>he continues
>34 fire damage, and he's suffering a level of exhaustion and falls to his knee
>his entire body is bright orange and red, his body feels wobbly, he has to crawl if he continues forward (this is where he is KO, but I let him continue, I let him know this)
>he continues the last 10 feet, getting hotter and hotter, refusing to turn back
>he finally gets to the end but suffers 45 fire damage, and dies
>I flavor his death as he gets pat the hallway, but his arm slaughs off, he falls to the ground and his body is completely molten as it falls apart partially melted on the ground before slowly cooling


He thought that was the coolest death, played the terminator 2 theme, and in his death throes he told the party to live on without him giving a thumbs up before his hand cooled and set

>>52930605
A Vegan can make a pretty good steak. Doesn't mean they can eat it.

A Wizard with proficiency in smithing tool can make a sword (with Fabricate spell even) but they still can't use it.

Your point?

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>>52930598

who else here is /redpilled/ to fifth edition?

ex. Bless is does literally nothing, sorcerer is better than wizard, paladin is >>objectively<< the strongest class etc.?

>>52930598
It's pretty much always combat

>>52930626
Really pointless death tho.

>>52930647
A vegan can eat a steak and a Wizard can wield a sword, Anon. For that matter, a Lizardman who crafts a shield can also wear it and gain armor from it.

The Wizard and the Lizardman just suffer the normal penalties for using items without proficiency.

>>52930651
In that case, if you don't care about your characters anymore then I suggest you be an unrepentant min-max powergamer from here on out.

It's as easy as googling "5e guide [insert class here]"

>>52930650
Bless is great, though. Best buff until you can twin Haste.

So with Minor alchemy... I could transform iron or stone into balsa wood for transportation? Then I could transform them into copper for shaping?

>>52930650
What's wrong with bless

>>52930651
Character's death is a symptom. Let's look for the cause.

Is your DM using any kind of house rule? Can you describe what happen?

>>52930706
Yes. Why do you ask? Curious about actual uses for Minor Alchemy.

>>52930605
Everybody can use everything. What are you talking about?

There are nothing a character cant innate use. An elf wizard can use full plate and a Glaive if they want to. They'll get penalties, but they can use it.

>>52930486
Try to look at the trust required to make civilization work from the perspective of someone who's idea of trust likely doesn't extend much farther than the basic survival instincts of an animal. Point out how fragile it all seems and try to draw parallels between the virtues of civilization when it works as it is intended and the flaws when the systems and ideals put in place are abused.

>>52930650
Sorcerer is just best class. Why would I ever play anything else?

What class are you supposed to make a Lizardfolk?

There's so many abilities that scale with different scores (Bite needs Str, Unarmored Defenses needs Dex in order to outclass any non shit medium armor). The +2 Con, +1 Wis is nice but in point buy, the 15 you can have at best for your main stat is pretty weak. Unless you were to go Cleric or Druid both of which don't really fit the flavor of race or their racial traits.

>>52930650
>Attempting this hard to be bait

As a /pol/ack fuck off

>>52930740
No houserule. Generally it's getting coup de grace that kills me

>>52930742
I'm building a house. Turning stone into balsa could get the stuff done so much faster.

You can use minor alchemy to bypass trap and stuff though. Just turn part of stone wall / iron gate into a dry wood and cast firebolt on it.

>>52930694

you're correct that it's the best concentration buff until you can twin haste. but twin haste is also the only buff ever worth casting in combat. haste and magic weapon are the only buffs worth casting at all.

>>52930727

Bless is one of the highest damage inflicting spells at low level, however, the damage is inconsequential. The value of a spell can be measured by how much more hp you have at the end of combat (assuming you aren't timed or some other external consequence). Therefore, spells have value when they prevent damage. Bless prevents damage when an attack that would only hit with bless causes an enemy that would have hit in the future to die before it can attack. This specific incident is so rare that bless often saves 0 hp. You will have more hp over an adventuring day if you attack in combat, take the attacks, then cast cure wounds after.

>>52930792

It's not a bait. Test sample combats for resultant hp at the end of combat and see how rare it is to come out ahead of simply attacking and healing after.

>>52930790
You go whatever you want to play but other than that, barbarian, rogue, figher seems thematicaly fit.

>>52930800
> 5e
> coup de grace
That's a houserule.

>>52930819
Blam. He should hit his DM in the face with this. It's as simple as innocently saying "I can't find the rules for Coup De Grace, where are they?"

>>52930819
even if that is the case, wouldn't their dm be doing it to everyone?

>>52930790
Armored Monk using Bite Attacks.

>>52930819
>What is attacking an unconscious character
Are you dumb, or just mentally handicapped?

>>52930813

I'm just such a shitty player though. I get really frustrated when I don't make a character mechanically optimized for whatever it is I want them to do. When I fail a skill check/miss because of a +1 I skipped out on for flavor.

>>52930902

Do natural attacks count as unarmed attacks?

>>52930909
>Do natural attacks count as unarmed attacks?
If your GM isnt shit, it does.

>>52930849
I mean Unconcious does give..

> Any Attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if the attacker is within 5 feet of the creature.

which is equal to 2 death saving throws. But the question would become...

Why are you getting in melee while you're unconscious? what is your party member doing? Why don't they heal you?

>>52930819
I don't mean outright killing me when I'm down, just hitting till dead

>>52930672
Yeah. He would've been hurt but not killed if he took his armor off or used something to cool himself with

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>>52930808
>Make a post full of /pol/ memes
>Makes post combative inviting argument
>Totally not bait and fishing for (you)s

>>52930907
Not coup de grace. That term doesn't exist in 5e.
If you're coming from /pfg/ (which I would kindly ask you to go back there if you haven't even bother to read the PHB), here is the different

- You still have to roll for attacks
- Critical hit only happen at 5ft range.
- There is no "save or die" effect after getting hit

>>52930930
>Why are you getting in melee while you're unconscious? what is your party member doing? Why don't they heal you?
I have had a GM down a level 2 character with a bear, and then have a second best mail him before anyone else got their initiative, killing him with no chance of reacting to it.

We "should have played the ambush while trying to get a long rest more intelligently"

>>52930849
This sounds like one of those things where everyone (the table presumably being familiar with past editions) knows what is meant by using a term that is no longer in 5E even if the rules for that are somewhat changed now.
Like, the guy who says "THERE'S NO 'ATTACKS OF OPPORTUNITY' IN FIFTH EDITION" is a pedantic dick because everyone implicitly understands we're talking about "the attack a creature makes when you walk out of his threat range".

>>52930967

pol memes were a bait. the statement about bless is true if you value spells based on the amount of hp the provide over an adventuring day.

>>52930972
>bothered*
>difference.**
>hits or happens*
>add or remove periods for consistency*
Are you ESL or something? You think you can just come on an English-speaking Mongolian underwater basketweaving forum and try to smart off to people while making a bunch of second grade errors in spelling and grammar? And don't give us any of that, "Oh, it's my phone," bullshit, we all know your third-world ass is posting from an internet cafe.

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>>52925801
Honestly it just depends on what type of character you like to play. For me, my favorite class/subclass for this edition is probably either Old One Chainlock or Necromancer Wizard. I like playing villainous characters who join an adventuring party to fulfill his own goals but ultimately grows fond enough of the party to risk his own hide for them even against his better judgement. I also love playing characters who have minions, and both imps and undead make great minions.

>>52930972
You are being an obtuse little bitch, and you knos it.

He was referring to the act of coup de Grace. Not a rule. It is only your autistic, mentally retarded ass, that instantly assumes it is referring to a rule by name.

And then you include a pfg meme, because of course you do. Don't you have some reddit thread to vent your autistism in?

>>52930972
>There is no "save or die" effect after getting hit
This is especially funny, because no, there are no save or die effect. You just die, no rolls. Shouldn't have gotten hit while unconscious!

>>52931016
> resort to ad hominem when his argument has been disprove

Who's being childish now?
Thanks for the grammar though.

>>52931039
>disproven*
>implying everyone who responds to you is the same person

>>52931030
> You just die, no rolls.
Wrong. 2 failures death saving throw doesn't mean you die. Instant death could happen but it's really uncommon in 5e.

I need pictures of helmates

Goofy helmets

So goofy I'd impose disadvantage on cha checks

>>52930808
Hey Bless is a first level slot for maximum effect. It has its use case, particularly early on. And Sorcedins can quicken it.

+2.5 avg on every combat-relevant roll is a good use of an action unless your party is only 2 people.

>>52931078
If you reach 3 failed death saves. If you fail the first one (50% chance) or if you get hit twice. Which isn't that unlikely when there are usually quite a few enemies, or few enemies with multiattack. And with advantage to hit, you are pretty fucked

>>52925916
Pierson Haijade is a Tiefling Warlock who I based off Tom from Parks & REc but soon become his own character. In our settion we have The Void Between Worlds which isn't weighed down by time or geography, in which dwell creatures like my patron.

Pierson isn't evil per-se, he'd just been in the void for so long (probably hundreds of years) that he forgot what is and isn't acceptable in usual society. He will always do what he thinks will be the most useful, regardless of the morality - though he does take consequences into account, he's not stupid. My party all think he's a jerk but he's only trying to be helpful and make friends, he just doesn't know how.

>>52931120

>+2.5 avg on every combat-relevant roll is a good use of an action unless your party is only 2 people.

It's good at causing damage, bad at preventing enemy attacks. Burning hands, faerie fire, guiding bolt and sometimes magic missile are better.

>>52931113
Helmates sounds like a cartoon for very young children about anthropomorphic helmets.

>>52931002
this is bullshit and you know it, if bless removes a single target that could inflict damage on its next turn, it's already breaking even with casting cure wounds because it can only heal one person.

bless letting a rogue land a hit or a paladin land a hit or a wizard hold concentration on a spell already breaks even because it either saved a resource from being expended prematurely or dealt more damage than any 1st level spell could attempt to do.

bless if amazing and you are full of shit, remaining hp is meaningless as long as everyone remains on foot. using cure wounds as an example is dumb because finishing the encounter lets you access hit die instead of forcing a heal spell mid combat, and those resources are a lot more common and don't compete with anything else at what they do.

>>52930935
What have you been fighting that does that?

I mean, yes, if an encounter's entire reason d'etre is to inflict permanent damage on a party, they are going to focus exclusively on one character and look to kill them by attacking them while down.

But creatures that are fighting several enemies will generally ignore the ones already down in favor of taking out those other guys hitting them with swords and spells, because they are the threat, not the guy that's already down for the count.

Or is it a case that the baddies know the downed PC in question is going to get rezzed with Healing Word?

>>52931153
Bless gives you a bonus to saves. +2.5 to saves.

Considering that Faerie Fire is +3.25 average attack roll increase, and that it has a failure chance since the enemy gets a DEX save, the only circumstance in which it is a better call is to try and dispel invisibility.

You're full of shit.

>>52931153
bless has like a 33% on average chance of breaking even on damage than any 1st level spell attack, depending on your party composition or targets, and that number just increases with the number of turns it sticks on.

it has 12.5% chance on average of letting a concentration spell to stick, instantly breaking even with anything else regardless because it saved the spell slot.

The real issue I've had with bless is
>cast bless on three people
>every single turn they have, I need to remind them they have bless
>If I don't, they don't roll it

>>52931030
pedantic use of term is very important to D&D anon.

Don't you know how many people mix up "melee weapon attack" and "melee weapon"? How many people doesn't know that "shapechanger" refer to a creature subtype and not anyone who change form? How many people doesn't know that "duration: permanent" is equal to "until dispel"

and surprise rounds still doesn't exist in 5e

>>52931157

> if

there's that word. IF bless causes the hit and IF the enemy attack would have hit and IF the attack would do more damage than casting cure wounds heals on average. it only happens once every few combats.

>bless letting a rogue land a hit

IF you have a rogue and IF bless is what caused them to hit, a rogue is more likely to prevent damage because sneak attack is a higher variance swing.

>bless if amazing and you are full of shit, remaining hp is meaningless as long as everyone remains on foot. using cure wounds as an example is dumb because finishing the encounter lets you access hit die instead of forcing a heal spell mid combat, and those resources are a lot more common and don't compete with anything else at what they do.

Let me deconstruct this. Bless is amazing if you have the circular reasoning of your following points. Remaining hp is meaningless as long as everyone remains on foot so you don't need bless anyway because the chance it will keep someone up is in the .1%. You can cast cure wounds AND use hit dice for healing between combat and go even further. Casters will have more spell slots than hit dice and recover them faster. Hit dice and pretty much anything short of fireball hitting the maximum number of enemies can't even compare with prayer of healing.

>>52931248

>Bless gives you a bonus to saves. +2.5 to saves.

Have you actually tested that with the bayes theorem? It's basically saving you 1 hp for every time you're in a fireball.

>Dumb shit about faerie fire

It's more than a +3 increase on average and the increased chance to crit is actually what helps its statistical average over bless.

>>52931263

>bless has like a 33% on average chance of breaking even on damage than any 1st level spell attack

It actually beats basically every other spell, but it takes too long. It rarely prevents attacks, unless you are fighting large enemies with hundreds of hp. The total damage is meaningless in the end, unless you are timed.

>>52931248
also faerie fire doesn't improve it's own chances of sticking on, meaning that even if they failed the dex save, it doesn't stop them from breaking your conc. and wasting your action and slot.

he is full of shit.

if you know for sure than the fight won't last more than one turn, then stuff like burning hands or magic missile are better than bless, especially considering subpar initiative rolls. but on average, after just two turns of combat, up to 5~6 attacks with bless and a number of saves beyond our control, it outpaces any other first level spell.

>>52931289
this is a real issue, what i do is that i give anyone with bless one of my dice (usually very neon and colorful) so that they know they can remember easier that they have it. i do the same with bardic inspirations and stuff like that.
>this die is for you, don't fuck it up

What's the best way to deal with a player who makes no distinction between out of character and in character talk/actions?

Which is the best ranger conclave now with revised ranger? Are they all pretty close now? Or is Hunter still best?

>>52931344

> burning hands or magic missile are better than bless, especially considering subpar initiative rolls. but on average, after just two turns of combat, up to 5~6 attacks with bless and a number of saves beyond our control, it outpaces any other first level spell.

burning hands is a great spell. better than cure wounds if you hit 3+ enemies. magic missle is really bad unless you're in a specific situation ie. last turn to slay a high ac enemy like an orog or hobgoblin captain and 1st level magic missle can do enough damage to kill it.

bless can cause more damage over time, but it rarely prevents enemy hits.

How does a party fight an invisible enemy assuming that they have nothing that gives them a way to see it or dispel the spell?
I know you can attack an invisible enemy with disadvantage but how does that even work. Do you just have to assume the enemy's position and see if you hit something?

>>52931339
>Have you actually tested that with the bayes theorem? It's basically saving you 1 hp for every time you're in a fireball.

Forget HP. It's a safeguard against conditions like Frightened or Charmed or Hold Person that will utterly fuck you up. And reducing your failure chance from say 8 down to 6 is very much statistically significant.

>It's more than a +3 increase on average and the increased chance to crit is actually what helps its statistical average over bless.

It's 3.25 on average. Increased crit chance is good but the failure chance on enemy save from Fairy Fire is what brings it down.

Plus Bless stacks with other sources of Advantage, whereas FF doesn't.

>>52931425
>Hunter

is Monster Slayer better than Hunter, Revised or not? Don't have any real clue about Rangers.

>>52931451
>Do you just have to assume the enemy's position and see if you hit something?

Yes. In grid you need to attack the square, in theater of the mind you need a general idea of where it is.

Note that an invisible enemy in combat isn't automatically using the Hide action.

>>52931425
Tied between Hunter and Monster Hunter.

>>52927107
Just for future reference, that's 4E's healing surges.

>>52931458

>Forget HP. It's a safeguard against conditions like Frightened or Charmed or Hold Person that will utterly fuck you up.

Not even. It's only a coincidence that encounters that include these mechanics typically last long enough for the damage from bless to matter, eg, dragons, fiends etc.

>the failure chance on enemy save from Fairy Fire is what brings it down.

Yes, so you don't cast it when there are a certain number of enemies of a certain dex save bonus. That is a metagaming point, but it's also irrelevant to the relative power of bless. Faerie fire is better in more situations than bless.

>Plus Bless stacks with other sources of Advantage, whereas FF doesn't.

Yes, and that means you just don't cast bless OR faerie fire if you have an easy way to get advantage.

>>52931517
So if the enemy is not actively hiding it's assumed that the characters pay enough attention to locate it by footprints/sound/smell?
But if it is hiding well enough they just need to guess.

>>52931451
Listening for movements, noticing rocks or dust moved in the area also
>Not carrying a bag of flour or sand for finding traps and invisible guys

It's like you're new to adventuring or something.

>>52931488
Monster Slayer is better at fighting bosses/minibosses, while Hunter is the undisputed best martial at dealing with multiple enemies, and good at keeping up with other martials otherwise.

MS's issue is that Slayer's Eye is competing with Hunter's Mark, which all Rangers have access to, for what's essentially a weaker version of the same effect. Any situation in which you aren't using Supernatural Defense and Relentless Slayer (which granted, is a very good ability if extremely niche) a Hunter will be superior.

>>52931600
That gives me sort of a Vengeance Paladin feeling then. Focus on one thing, and murder it deader than dead.

>>52931182
>But creatures that are fighting several enemies will generally ignore the ones already down in favor of taking out those other guys hitting them with swords and spells, because they are the threat, not the guy that's already down for the count.
That stops the instant someone Throws a heal that brings a downed guy back into the fight.

>>52931698
Yeah, after the first one, you'd start making sure he stays down, unless you have a more pressing concern. (The barbarian comes to cover his partner and is swinging at your face.)

>>52931339
>It rarely prevents attacks, unless you are fighting large enemies with hundreds of hp.

how are you rationalizing this?

if you have several creeps with low hp, any hit that lands has a substantial effect in preserving hp, because it is changing your odds of removing a target by up to 20% is huge. even on average bless is doing 12.5% more damage per attack, having a breaking point as a function of the damage per attack of your party and the total number of required attacks to end the encounter.

as i say, if you have an encounter that will just last one round, attacking with anything is better, but if you have an encounter that will force 8 or more attacks or saving throws, bless outdoes anything else. 8 attacks could be 1 round with extra attack+two-weapon fighting or more with more reasonable attacking modi. but even following the comparison with faerie fire, the fact that it can fail and do absolutely nothing makes its average 1) beyond the player control and 2) potentially 0, even compared to advantage, if your group has stuff like marksmaship or great weapon master, that 12.5% is a huge improvement... and it stacks with other sources of advantage to boot, that could be beyond your control.

in the end i could run the numbers or you could show me your numbers and only then we'd have a meaningful way of proving this for good. regardless of it, i don't think you'll ever be able to 'redpill' anyone out of bless, because dice roll are just that, dice roll. that flat +1 of min. roll bless for three targets is enough to justify using it, specially when you compare it to stuff like magic weapon or the improved pact weapon invocations. it even compares to 1 level worth of proficiency improvements, and if you think that is meaningless then well i don't think you understand bounded accuracy.

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82KB, 600x734px

>>52931451
>he doesn't have a FightGyver in the party to throw powdered chalk, ground cinnamon, fine flour, mushroom spores, oil, or water
The last invisible enemy my party fought was an invisible stalker, kind of an air elemental thing. The Fighter threw some powdered substance in its general direction, and when it got sucked up and trapped in the creature's air currents and made it visible, he threw a torch and combusted the particulates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion

This is sci-fi / action movie 102 shit. The heroes always find the cloaked monster by luring it into an area with water or dust on the ground and watching for footprints, or by flinging something through the air that will coat it.

>>52931533
>avg. bless on saving throws is higher than proficiency in saving throws at the levels it matters
>not losing a turn or more for free is somehow not worth a spell slot
>specially when you could be saving up to three target's turns plus whatever they do with their improved +to hit

>Faerie fire is better in more situations than bless.
>can fail
>depends on enemies positions
>can fail
>doesn't do anything to ensure it sticks once it lands

>bless
>can't fail
>it's good on offense or defense
>can't fail
>makes itself harder to remove

i will call low quality bait at this point.