/osrg/ OSR General

How does a southern witch doctor find a voodoo doll and some monster skulls from the northern subarctic mountains?

>>52919709
>What level is Merlin?

About 13, give or take.

>Are Magic-Users a race?

According to Harry Potter, yes.

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>>52919745
Imported.
Summoned.
"That's a good question."
Souvenir.
Migratory.

>>52919871

That image is retarded.

I have been reading over The GLOG that Arnold made over at goblinpunch and I am loving it. Has anyone actually used this to run games?

Would love to hear from people who use it. Specifically what you think about it, have you changed anything, and if you think it works well for long term campaigns.

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>>52920027
Skerples has been running and brewing for it. He'll pipe his blog in a minute, but I've beat him to it:
>https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/search/label/session%20writeup

>>52920022
https://boards.fireden.net/tg/thread/52449385/#52458176

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>>52920027
Well hello there!

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-glog-review.html

I like it. It works. It's disorganized as hell so be prepared to do a lot of copying and pasting and hacking, but it's really delightful, especially for new players.

I'm only 3 sessions in, so I can't comment on long-term staying power, but Arnold's game has been going on for ages.

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>>52920114
> He'll pipe his blog in a minute, but I've beat him to it

Son of a bitch!

>>52919745
I was under the impression that voodoo dolls are just ragdolls with extra bits sown into them like hair, blood, skin, fingernails, etc. of the subject the doll is linked to. They could probably make one out of anything cloth like.

Monster skulls could drift down stream from ancient glaciers, wash ashore along the coast to bleach, emerge from tar pits, stitched to the face of the ogre chieftain, or just being inside monsters waiting for a foolish adventurer to try and relive them of it.

>>52920132
>>52920114
Thanks! And that OSR Summoner class is fucking sick

>>52919709
>Robin Hood statline
Would flip Wis and Cha (he's pretty reckless, but clearly good at gathering a band) and probably boost Int (wily) but that's a pretty good line otherwise.

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>>52920278
Thank you. It's a neat one. Check out the Generic Cleric as well (Arnold hasn't written his version yet).

My wizards are also slightly different than his. There are a few tweaks I've made along the way.

I feel like any movie on Best of the Worst is a good candidate for OSR inspiration, especially the sci-fi and fantasy titles

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>>52919709
Hey guys, I made a thread about it but it got no traction, so reposting here.

I'm currently in a Pathfinder game, and I've convinced the DM to let me run a B/X campaign next. I've been wanting to try the system out for a while, but I have a couple questions.

Firstly: AC and thac0. Should I keep them as is or should I change them up so that higher is better? If I changed it would we be missing an integral part of the experience?

Secondly: what kind of campaign should I run? I know old school has a reputation for being deadly (and I come from GURPS, so I'm totally fine with that), but I'm not sure how Pathfinder babbies will deal with it. What's the best way to kick off this rodeo in your opinion?

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>>52919709
> What level is Merlin?
Started as archmage 18 LVL but lost levels as he got younger.

> ACKS arrives in mail yesterday
But it's not the endgame I was looking for, anons. Someone please write one.

And who asked for these classes: "blade dancer", "dwarven vault guard", and "elven night blade".

>>52921300
>Should I keep them as is or should I change them up so that higher is better?
They're about the same amount of effort to use,
Normally I'd say, "you shouldn't" but only because updating /everything/ is more work that using THAC0 forever.

That said, I would consider ascending AC for ease of transition for your "new" players.
THAC0 is really easy to wrap your head around, especially after using it two or three times, but some people set out not toe learn so...

>If I changed it would we be missing an integral part of the experience?
Ha. That's a joke, right? They play exactly the same.

>what kind of campaign should I run?
Establish expectations from square one. "Don't write a backstory, that's what your early levels are for" and all that.
Before they even generate characters, make sure they understand how fickle the dice will be.

>I know old school has a reputation for being deadly
Bear in mind, it's not deadly for the sake of being deadly. It's deadly for the sake of feeling risky.
If your players are doing everything right, they should only lose like out of every 10 characters per session (mostly from combat).

If your player DO NOT WANT a sense of risk to spicing up their rewards, DO NOT make it risky.
>What's the best way to kick off this rodeo in your opinion?
Sit them down together out of game, and talk about expectations. If they aren't picking up what you're laying down, start them at level 3.
Don't force them to like the things you like. If they can appreciate aspects of the system, they will latch on by themselves.

>>52921381
You forgot to describe B, cuntenheimer.

>>52921381
>dwarven vault guard is a class

You know, that sounds to me like a guy with a stable, honorable, respected, and most importantly, well-paying position within Dwarven society, and one of the last guys who would throw it all away to run around with a gang of human murderhobos.

>>52921381
>But it's not the endgame I was looking for, anons.
What kind of endgame were you looking for?

>>52921300
>thac0
Technically THAC0 doesn't exist in B/X

>Should I keep them as is or should I change them up so that higher is better?
If you're gonna do that why not save some work and Basic Fantasy RPG instead?

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>>52921626

He likely wants it to be authentic, as strongly implied by his post. And why should he use your favorite retroclone over any of the dozens of others, anyway?
It's not like switching to ascending AC is hard to do.

>>52921783
>your favorite retroclone
Please, I have better taste than that.

>>52919709
>What level is Merlin?
36

>Are Magic-Users a race?
Yes

>>52921547
That is why I renamed them Dwarven Wanderers in my game, removed the Craftpriests, and kept the Delvers as is.

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>>52921541
The label is /right next to/ the room.

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There's nothing wrong with including a catfolk race in your games. If your players are good, you'll have no problems.

https://youtu.be/2ueZo5i6GPg
>>52922138
Away with you, furfaggot! Skerples has already filled our "toeing the line" quota."
How would you even stat it? Refluff dwarves?

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>>52922267
>monstergirls
>furry
Don't make me break out the chart.

Anyways.
>+1 DEX -1 WIS (curiosity killed the cat!)
and some combination of
>falling damage reduction
>bonus unarmed damage
Maybe climb walls and move silently as a thief of X level (or a bonus if they're already thieves).

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>>52922138
I'd rather have mice, otters, hares, and badgers as playable, though I feel like any Redwall game would require a random feast chart.

>>52922138
Go back to /pfg/

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How do you old-school gentlemen feel about new players getting into OSR games?

>>52922676
But I don't like minmaxing.

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>>52922364

Hide behind charts all you want, it won't fool anyone.

>>52919709
>What level is Merlin?
kinda depends on which version, some are barely magic-users at all(at least by D&D standards), while others would be pretty high
>Are Magic-Users a race?
depends on the setting

>>52921381
>And who asked for these classes: "blade dancer", "dwarven vault guard", and "elven night blade".
cause while ACKS recognizes the need for well defined core classes(Fighter, Mage, Cleric, and Thief), it also recognizes that not every character concept fits into those 4, thus classes like the Blade Dancer(which is basically a Specialty Priest in concept) and the Racial Classes(which strike a very good balance between how BX usually handles non-humans and how AD&D handles them)

>>52921547
they explain it in the Vault Guard's description, PC Vault Guards are ones who have been sent on a pilgrimage outside of the traditional Dwarven territories to bring back gold and glory to their homes

also I definitely really dislike this idea that's become more and more common in the OSR community that the only people who would take up adventuring would be insane homeless morons

>>52922138
agreed, I see no problem in allowing access to non-human races by the players, almost always any issues that come up involve specific players(often because they're idiots), so they're the problem to be solved not the race

>>52922788
>also I definitely really dislike this idea that's become more and more common in the OSR community that the only people who would take up adventuring would be insane homeless morons
BUT DUDE """"GRITTY"""" """"REALISM"""" LMAO

Anyone here running or have run a West Marches game? Looking for any advice I can get on it. From organization, prep, world building, player advice, even fun keyed locations. I'll take it all.

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>>52921300
>Firstly: AC and thac0. Should I keep them as is or should I change them up so that higher is better?
It really doesn't matter. It's all just different ways of solving the exact same math problem. A fair number of retroclones have adopted ascending AC systems, and while people may prefer one or the other, few of them reject ascending AC as being poisonous to movement.

>>52921300
>I know old school has a reputation for being deadly (and I come from GURPS, so I'm totally fine with that), but I'm not sure how Pathfinder babbies will deal with it.
If you want to lower the death rate, don't make people die at 0 hit points. Give 'em until they reach -10 or something. Hell, even if you just let them get to a number of negative hit points equal to their level, that'll help out.

>>52922695
Feeling really good about that.

>>52921481
>toe
*to

>like out of
like *1 out of

>risk to spicing
risk *spicing

>>52922364
>+1 DEX -1 WIS
>>>/out/

>>52922788
>depends on the setting
If vital context is missing, supply your own context or discuss the context-agnostic merits and demerits.

>>52922364
>+1 DEX -1 WIS (curiosity killed the cat!)
it should be +1 CHA -1 CON (Catgirls are slim and cute!)

>>52921562

ok thoughts...

64 pp softcover "Dungeons & Dragons Endgame Rules" to go with Moldvay and Cook. Henceforth B/X/E will be the /osrg/ approved™ rules set. Cover art by Otus with the warrior and the sorceress putting down the asshole wizard who was spying on them. The dragon was pissed too, so maybe he gets some of the action.

The D&D Endgame Rules allot 16 pp to each class. The fighter endgame is a boardgame like Risk but actually fun to play and none of the bullshit about drawing cards.

The magic user specializes in something like demonology or necromancy that will be the death of him in all likelihood.

The thief launders all of his stolen loot and goes legit and takes up honest trade. If he wants too. Most of the rules will still be about pimping prostitutes and smuggling drugs and shaking down shopkeepers.

The cleric learns some debased stuff about her religion. E.g. if she is a priestess of Athena, she learns there is no goddess Athena, and the sect is ruled by a medusa, and that all of the previous high priestesses have been turned to stone and stored in the inner sanctum, but they can be stone-to-fleshed if need be, or they can be consulted thanks to the talk-to-statues spell granted to all priestesses of the Medusa once a day.

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>>52923369
At this point, the nature of the game has changed significantly. OSR rules sets, even turned into Risk, might not emulate the game and tone you want. Heck, RPGs might not even emulate it.

There's a reason it's called "retirement".

>>52923369
>>52923682
What about the demihumans?

>>52923711
What about the demihumans.

>>52923806
>>52923711
Don't elves just go wander off into the forest and sort of fade away into part it instead of just aging to death?

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>>52921481
>>52921626
>>52922963
>>52922982
Cool, thanks guys. I think I'll just leave the rules as is for now.

I've settled on the idea of a West Marches style game since I think it'll let us bring more of our friend group in. On the one hand the guy who wrote the original specifically recommends against old school systems. On the other hand, old school systems seem perfectly tuned for a "get gold through the most expedient, possibly cowardly route possible" style of play.

Any thoughts or experience with this?

>>52923825
>wander off into the forest and sort of fade away
No. They hitch a boat (or hike?) to not!Aman.

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>>52923825
>wander off into the forest and sort of fade away

No, they eventually accumulate enough ennui to metamorphose into Cosmic Boredom Butterflies, and flap off into the ether.

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>>52924027
>Cosmic Boredom Butterflies
Stats or it didn't happen.

>>52924111
>psionics are because of a githyanki psi-nuke
>halfling invented magic and started a worldwide genocide campaign
>humans and half-elves get to turn into super special snowflake dragons

Dark Sun was a strange setting.

>>52923968
Also, follow up question: what's /osrg/'s stance on rolling stats? Obviously arrays are heresy, but what method do you guys prefer? 3d6 down the line, or something a little more... potent?

>>52924189
Yes?

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>>52924111
I'm bad at this. Terrible paint drawing anon is better.

Cosmic Boredom Butterfly
HD: number of hours the session has been going+1d6
Stats: standard Elf stats +2 in all categories
Movement: flight, but at walking speed
Size: big. Like the size of an unfurled tent. Most of the creature is wings.
Appearance: a huge butterfly with gossamer and silk wings (brightly coloured, rippling like the aurora) and a tiny withered torso, with a dozen folded-up finger-legs and an elf's shining face.
Wants: nothing
Abilities: Zone of Boredom (30' radius, Save any time you take an action or decide, nah, fuck it, why bother), Lay Elf Eggs
Eats: the remains of abandoned projects (ethereal proboscis, sucks them out of your head)
Appears. Alone, or in swarms of d20+5 or d100+10

>>52924189
Honestly? It's tamer than Wilderlands of High Fantasy.

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>>52924193
Personal preference: 3d6 in order, reroll 1 stat based on your character's race.

>>52924193
3d6 straight down the line for OD&D/LBB.
4d6 drop lowest for 2e (it places more value on attributes).
3d6, possibly with some rearranging, for everything else.

>>52924193
Everyone gets a free 15 to assign wherever the fuck they want, then it is 3d6 in order for all the rest.

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>>52924193
>Obviously arrays are heresy.
As long as everybody doesn't have the exact same numbers, just rearranged (which seems overly artificial to me: everybody's top stat is just as high, everybody's second highest stat is the same, etc.), I'm cool with it. Then again, I'm probably not in the mainstream for OSR when it comes to stat generation.

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Enjoy 1d20 different realms, and 1d6 ways to make the trip to each one; purposeful or otherwise.

http://www.occultesque.com/2017/04/portals-inter-dimensional-travel-made.html

>>52924339
I do something similar but with a 14 instead.

>>52924489
Now for the real challenge: Find how many planeshifts can you induce simultaneously.

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>>52924782
Still a fan of this oldie.

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>>52924805
>Encounter. Two parties of druids working to build the Large Dolmen Collier, a huge track of logs and stone that will roll two Dolmen Gates through each other, smashing two planes together and creating a 1) paradise 2) catastrophe 3) gigantic forest of hypertrophic trees, expanding a mile per day 4) a new flood, druids love water too.

>>52924805
A wizard makes 19 simulacrums out of ruby and attempts to do them all at once.

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>>52924929
By the time you've carved 19 simulacra though you'll be blind by ruby dust and addled by mercury fumes. Even if you could remember how to fuck you wouldn't know why.

Your eyeballs would be worth a fortune though. Ruby-tinted, red and shredded. Put them in alcohol to make a tincture that lets you seduce gemstones through rock.

>>52925039
"I sidle up to the hunk of tiger iron and say: Hey bby, want sum fuk?"
>She frowns disapprovingly
"cmon bby lemme smash"

>>52925039
>and addled by mercury fumes. Even if you could remember how to fuck you wouldn't know why.
I-is that... a Discworld reference?

>>52924489
>none of the planes are actually a spaceship
I can only give this a 19/20.

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>>52925122
Nah man, you've got to seduce gemstones like a greasy hollywood producer. "Baby, I'm going to make you famous. Ever been to a coronation? I've got this princess who'd /love/ to meet you."

Maybe fuck a jeweler in front of the rock face, to get them in the mood.

>>52925140
In my campaign, the only spaceships are piloted by illithids. 25% of their fleet is in orbit,
the other 75% have all crashed and are now buried in the underdark.

It would be fun to planeshift to one of the planets they're previously terraformed, though. A giant, squishy, brainmass of a planet that floats through space projecting psionic radio waves.

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>>52925140
>I-is that... a Discworld reference?

Oh shit, I've been found out!

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>>52925184
lemme smash

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>>52925199
I also know that you're Skerples.

>>52925190
Where do your illithids come from?

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>>52925247
They are starspawn, birthed in the emerald waters of their living vessels that ply the unseen winds of space.

They're clones grown in vats of mind-goo.
They can't recall their home, but they know their mission is to terraform as many planets as possible into giant brains to join the illithid cluster-conscience.

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>>52925247
>I also know that you're Skerples.

Big shock.

>>52925213
No Ron, your tailings are small

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>>52925307
But Beryl, lemme smash

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>>52925342

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Favourite monster from Veins of the Earth?

I've got to say, the Archaeans (and their bees), the Fossil Vampires, the Olm, and the Pyroclastic Ghouls have really impressed me so far.

>>52925524
I've been rationing it as a reward for doing coursework so I haven't finished yet, but I like the idea of a roving horde of Cholerids fumbling around in the dark while the PCs are crammed into an overhead nook for safety while they sleep.

>>52924213

That's not really hard to do, Wilderlands has shit like candle shops run by powerful djinn.

>>52925524

I love the Alkalion.

>>52923825
>>52924198
What happens to ancient goblins?

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>>52926225
They die and rot. Goblins never stop growing, but their physiology doesn't support a mass larger than, say, a compact car.

You can get a grotesque Goblin King for a while, unable to move, legs snapped like twigs, breathing by the effort of a dozen slaves. But someone always slips up. Or poisons them. Kingship is always a lifetime position.

But if somehow a goblin has food and power and isn't killed, possibly as the result of magic or a curse or accidental exposure to something weird, it can grow to be a hideous giant, tumour-riddled and blinded by rolls of fat. It can't even crawl. Other goblins will wall it away or burn it out of spite or cannibalize its flesh or roll it into a chasm.

>>52921541
>B: Restroom

Go wash that foul mouth of yours

After playing Fighting Fantasy: Robot Commando, I am now convinced a barbaric fantasy setting about loincloth clad swordfighters on a planet full of dinosaurs could be substantially improved if their culture also anachronistically allows them to build cities, computers, and most importantly giant mecha. Said giant mecha are used for everything from herding dinosaurs to fighting their alien enemies with missiles and lasers.

Which OSR game would be best for depicting barbarians in giant mecha fighting dinosaurs and aliens?

>>52921381
>sign directs you to bathroom
>bathroom door is hidden
Who's bright idea was this? /s

>>52926502
OD&D+CHAINMAIL

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>>52924027

>>52924899
I like this

So 2nd edition AD&D made surprise and initiative rolls into d10s rather than d6s. Was this a good or a bad call, and why?

>>52921381
Vault Guards are literally the B/X Dwarf. Blade Dancer is an alternate Paladin for a more sword-and-sorcery world (or if you want to play Xena), and Night Blade is an alternate Elf.

ACKS gives multiple racial classes as a compromise solution between race-as-class and race+class. I honestly think it's a pretty good solution and you're free to keep things the same as B/X by only allowing the Elven Spellblade and Dwarven Vaultguard.

>>52926846

I can only imagine the increased amount of spells and combat options led to the choice to make initiative slightly more granular. It's plausible felt surprise and initiative, being so closely tied, should operate off the same die. Which would be odd given that the ad&d editions on the whole lived and died by subsystems.

I think it's a decent call. Feel like d6 allows for that spontaneous and simultaneous feeling, but sometimes spreading things out a HAIR helps when some drastically different options are happening. Sort of a compromise between 1-6 and 1-20. Been meaning to experiment with 1-12, myself.

>>52926333
I'm guessing conversion to Lichhood and other forms of corporeal undeath are common among the more magically inclined Goblin Kings(or ones who have a particularly potent magic user under their thrall)

>>52927008
>ACKS gives multiple racial classes as a compromise solution between race-as-class and race+class. I honestly think it's a pretty good solution and you're free to keep things the same as B/X by only allowing the Elven Spellblade and Dwarven Vaultguard.
exactly, one of the reasons ACKS is one of my favorite OSR systems

So, how do you play OD&D *without* Chainmail?
There's no initiative/turns, no missile ranges, no individual tactics or situational modifiers.
The idea of a super light system, but this sounds basically.. freeform.

>>52927008
I don't understand the point, all it is is that it's a race-and-class but pretending it's race-as-class. That's just wasted space instead of having the intuitive system that race-and-class and race-as-class has. It also makes it much more difficult to hack your own races and classes into it.

>>52926502
Don't. Just don't. It's a stupid ass fucking idea and you should feel bad for having had it. If you can't understand why, there's your problem.

>>52927151
one of the later OD&D supplements included a replacement combat system

>>52927246
>It also makes it much more difficult to hack your own races and classes into it.
actually not at all, ACKS includes a system in it's Player's Companion expansion on how to build new classes, and it details how to do so for the 4 non-Human races ACKS included classes for up to that point(Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Thrassian), and has expanded upon that system in later publications, ACKS is probably the one of the easiest OSR systems to build classes for because of that

also I'd argue that the variation of Race-As-Class system that ACKS uses is very intuitive, as it allows for races to come off as more unique without bringing up the old issue of "Why do all Dwarves play the same?" which in my opinion at least has always come off as incredibly hokey, especially in any of the ways people have tried explaining it(especially since it almost always leads to incredibly bland humanocentric settings)

>>52927382
My sole problem with it is that gnomes are my favorite race and it's made them kinda useless as presented. The gnome trickster just doesn't have a party role. It's not a good fighter, it doesn't function well as a rogue, plenty of choices are better than it in social situations and it's a very poor magic user. All the racial illusions abilities don't save it from uselessness.

And it's not like the game doesn't have good hybrid classes other than that. Elven Courtier may not be specialized in anything but is a very potent combination of abilities, for example.

>>52927246
I'm not overly familiar with ACKS, but as a fan of race-as-class, I don't mind the idea of each demihuman race having a couple of choices. The good thing about race-as-class, other than just keeping things simple, is that it sets demihumans apart by making them unique. So elves feel different from humans, and don't just end up feeling like you're slapping pointy ears and an attribute adjustment onto whatever class you're playing. And if you've got unique classes for the demihumans, then you've successfully set them apart. Ideally, a particular demihuman race's class options should have a theme running through them, so that they can give a common identity to race to which they belong (rather than just being two arbitrary classes that just happen to be stuck under the same rubric). I don't know enough about ACKS to really evaluate the demihuman classes, other than to say that I'm not a big fan of all of the names (which seem incongruent with the very basic names of the classes from Basic).

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>>52926502
well Godbound, Stars Without Number, and Colonial Troopers all provide rules for Mecha and/or Power Armor in some form or another, so might want to take a look at those, as for lasers and other science-fantasy weapons, besides the previously mentioned games, I'd recommend taking a gander at Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, it has some of the best rules for guns and other more unconventional weapons that I've seen in an OSR context(the just ended kickstarter for two new expansion books for ACKS might also be useful once they come out)

also ignore >>52927258 he's at least one of a troll, moron, or just plain asshole if not all three at once(not to mention obviously having no imagination)

>>52927420
well that's one of the nice things about the class creation system, you can whip up a more useful class for the Gnome with a little work, also check out www.bythisaxe.co among the many new things for ACKS it comes up with are 3 new classes for Gnomes that all feel pretty interesting

>>52927456

>I'm not overly familiar with ACKS, but as a fan of race-as-class, I don't mind the idea of each demihuman race having a couple of choices.

I'm not much of a fan of Race as Class but that's a plenty acceptable middle ground IMO.

My main issue with Race as Class is it feels limiting to the culture. Like you force every race to only play to it's stereotypes while humans sit there going 'Man, I can do anything'. Having say 'Elven Ranger, Elven Bladesinger and Elven Magi' lets you have classes that feel distinctly elven without is being 'Hi, I am ElfMcPonce. I am legally required to be good with nature, spot secret doors, be a spellslinger AND a swordmaster to cover all the iconic elven things'

...though it does make me wonder. How would you do Human with Race as Class rather than the usual 'Humans get classes'?

>>52927498
>How would you do Human with Race as Class rather than the usual 'Humans get classes'?

Bard, or 3rd edition factotum.

Someone that knows a little bit of everything but will nearly always lose to the more specialized demihumans in their area of expertise. Jack of all trades, master of none.

>>52927382
>and it details how to do so for the 4 non-Human races ACKS included classes for up to that point
Isn't the system just race-and-class then?

>also I'd argue that the variation of Race-As-Class system that ACKS uses is very intuitive, as it allows for races to come off as more unique without bringing up the old issue of "Why do all Dwarves play the same?"
That wouldn't make it "intuitive". What I mean is that, let's say a player is going to make his first character in ACKS. Let's also say that he's into race-as-class. He'll tell the DM "I want to play as an elf" and the DM tells him "Okay, what kind of elf?" which, in the players mind, just signifies that it's actually just race-and-class. Another new player, who likes race-and-class, is also making a character. He tells the DM that he wants to play an elf fighter, but is told that he can only play a night-blade. He asks what that means and the DM tells him that it's what you have to be if you want to be a fighting elf. That player will see the system as having race-as-class. The players now have different ideas about what this means and have to read several more class pages to see the differences, when the old games only had a few for either showing the elf class stats or the elf stats + fighter stats.

>>52919709
So, will soon be playing a 2e dark sun campaign. I did play some adnd long ago when I was a kid, but I'm afraid that I don't remember much of the system.

Facing the daunting task of reading both the players handbook in its entirety, as well as the dark sun supplement, I wanted to ask you guys if there's a way to make this a bit easier on myself? Is there a more streamlined guide for adnd online?

>>52927514
honestly the scenario you described seems only possible with a group of literal morons

>>52927515
purpleworm.org/rules

>>52927498
>My main issue with Race as Class is it feels limiting to the culture. Like you force every race to only play to it's stereotypes while humans sit there going 'Man, I can do anything'.
I understand where you're coming from, and it certainly can be a limitation, though there are defenses that can be made for it. First, the racial class doesn't define the entire race, just PC adventurers. Second, in a human-centric world, where northwards of half the characters in a party can be assumed to be human, it makes sense for something like half the classes to be human. And that's what Basic gives you. You have 4 human classes, and 3 demihuman classes. So it's a reasonable split for a human-centric world (or at least a human-centric area of the world). For a non-human-centric setting, unfortunately, it's rubbish.

>>52927533
So "read both books"?

>>52927532
Well, arguing about whether race-and-class or race-as-class is the best is pretty moronic too. Even more moronic to make a "compromise" system and act as if the whole thing is solved.

>>52927509

That wouldn't be a bad idea. My thoughts (For the 'Each race gets a couple of options) were:

Human Knight: No, you are not the virtuoso with a sword that an elf is. No you are not as tough as the dwarf is. You are however a fantastic battle leader, good fighter and more cooperative with your allies. You flank better, you protect your allies better and you inspire them to greatness.

Human Bard: The true jack of all trades. A little bit of magic, a little bit of swordplay, a little stealth and a good amount of using them with flair and cunning.

Human Sorcerer: In contrast to the other two, this one isn't much of a jack. Humans don't have the long lives of the other races to learn a wide variety of magic. So instead they find the sort of magic they are best at and they monofocus it like a motherfucker. No, the human doesn't know 3 ways to open a lock with magic. He does however Fire well enough to reduce it to slag. Then throw more fire when the orcs turn up. Then impress the locals by throwing more fire.

Going with a bit of a 'Live fast, live hard and die young'

>>52927555

Yeah, a lot of my issues I think come from running into Race as Class when more than one person wants to be the same race. Like 'Hey, let's play elven siblings...oh, we basically play exactly the same'.

It works a lot better when you don't expect more than a single of a given non-human in a group.

>>52927514
>That wouldn't make it "intuitive". What I mean is that, let's say a player is going to make his first character in ACKS. Let's also say that he's into race-as-class. He'll tell the DM "I want to play as an elf" and the DM tells him "Okay, what kind of elf?" which, in the players mind, just signifies that it's actually just race-and-class.
I can't really speak to ACKS in particular, but the issue could be addressed in an intuitive way.
--high elves are pretty much straight fighter / wizards
--wood elves are ranger-y and have more druid-y magic

--mountain dwarves are your typical fighty dwarves
--hill dwarves are more skulky and tinkery

Etc. And even if you prefer not to go with a subrace approach, the concepts are still pretty obvious, and you can simply rename the classes (elven hunter, elven adept, dwarven champion, dwarven varlet).

>>52927589
>Like 'Hey, let's play elven siblings...oh, we basically play exactly the same'.
You'll have different stats and different spells. How much more customization do you want in an OSR game?

>>52927657
>How much more customization do you want in an OSR game?

Maybe I'd like mine to be able to use bow really well like Legolas, while my brother's more like a spell-casting trickery fairy?

>>52927819
Then play AD&D, and use race-and-class. You'll play a ranger, he'll play a magic user.

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Does this sound reasonable? (yes it's a wip)

>>52928177
Explain the system to me.

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>>52928197
You roll d20+mods as usual. Then lookup your roll in your weapon's row. Follow that column down, that's the AC you hit.

It's a variation on chainmail's M2M table, using on Rythlondar's crunch.

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So I found a write-up I did for a kobold race in Swords & Wizardry Whitebox a while ago. It's probably a bit too powerful for what kobolds actually are but I intended it for an all-kobold game anyways.

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>>52928197
>>52928301
And here's the crunch, if anyone in interested.
The GM says it's AC 15 and you have a sword? You need 13+
Fucker with plate+shield, AC 18? You need 15+ on your flail.
Etc.

>>52925893
>Wilderlands has shit like candle shops run by powerful djinn.
Speaking of, can you give me a reference to that candle shop -- name/street? I keep seeing people mention this djinn, but I can't find him in my copy of the book. I know of the wine guy who's actually Balder, though.

>>52929718
Sounds less like the City-State and more like Rallu. That shit's commonplace in Rallu.

Maybe Valon...

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>>52926826
We all do.

>>52927498
>How would you do Human with Race as Class rather than the usual 'Humans get classes'?

>>52927498
>How would you do Human with Race as Class rather than the usual 'Humans get classes'?

I should probably so a better write-up but I did a sketch a while back: http://buzzclaw.blogspot.co.nz/2016/07/human-race-as-class.html

What reason do you guys usually have for demihumans being involved with humans at all?
In LotR they came together because the fate of the world was at stake. Why would they come together in a standard fantasy campaign?

>>52930556
After LotR things just sort of escalated, everyone wanted to be an elf or a dwarf, orcs were beaten up all around instead of just having been gathered around this one dark lord, and as a result the whole thing of them being separate completely died out. People missed the point. As such your question is kind of a moot as well, unless we went right back to the Tolkienian roots.

>>52930556
Greed.
Lust.
Exiles.
Outcasts.
Fugitives.
Fetishists.

>>52930556
Well, in my setting which is set in 1640 Europe but with crazy ass magic having appeared in the 1620s, demihumans came into being from some other world (fucking witches went crazy, yo) and some have seized some land away from various powers and such because wars were already draining resources elsewhere or, in some cases, were ceded control of lands in exchange for fealty and conversion. Some are now integrating slowly with the worlds various cultures, others are not trying to but some of them are now trying to deal with the crazy ass humans around them.

>>52927657
>How much more customization do you want in an OSR game?
honestly really dislike how Customization is automatically considered to be a bad thing by most of the OSR movement

>>52930556
depends on the setting really

>>52930952
It's not *bad*, but there's a reason why people are into Basic D&D. It's quick to set up and just get going. A desire for more customization leads to AD&D 1e and 2e which isn't bad, but it's not what people assume you play.

>>52931162
Speaking of which, I'm reading through the Rules Cyclopedia at the moment, and I'm really conflicted.

Do the weapon mastery and skill system rhles add anything? Or are they just pointless cruft?

>>52931440
They allow some customization but I usually only add the weapon mastery rules and scrap the skill system.

Looking to become a better DM. I've only ever run pre-written adventures, so I'm pretty sure my style is "railroady as fuck." Any good sources for expanding muh skills? Learning to do sandboxy he's crawls and improving better?

>>52932084
Hex not he's

>>52932084
What system are you running? Convert X1 The Isle of Dread and run it if needed.

If running LotFP, use World of the Lost or Isle of the Unknown instead.

>>52932118
Mostly run 3.0 (I know.... ) but looking to start DCC or B/X.

>>52932163
See >>52932118
Drop D&D 3.0 and get with the OSR ASAP

>>52932287
Yeah I'm tired of all the 3.0 bloat. I want to run a game where players can actually do shit.

>>52932322
DCC wouldn't be a that terrible choice to go for, in my opinion. It's fairly similar to 3.0 mechanically yet still far closer to OSR. Players can certainly do stuff, albeit maybe still a bit less than in other systems.

>>52932386
That's what I'm leaning towards. It has a hackmaster sort of aesthetic, but looks playable.

>>52932084
>>52932163
For now, pick modules that are not "railroady as fuck."
>http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/dnd/dungeonmaps.html
Once you have got a sense for that, try designing a dungeon.

No need to go to hex crawls, the paradigm shift would throw your players for a loop.
If you do want to try it out, wait until you are more comfortable with "exploration" -centric play.

Rec. me a primer on medieval wargaming.
I've seen mantioned Terence Wise, "Medieval Warfare" but can't find a pdf.

>>52932163
Why not go with OD&D? Get delving deeper from the trove and give it a look.
It may be way too simple (and swingy), but it's quite liberating. Stats are almost binary (I'm Strong! +1 to damage!) there's no initiative, etc. It's still fairly tactical, depends on how you(r players) play it.
BX is a good choice too, the right amount of crunch.

Whatever you play, just 2 tips: approach it without expectations, and play it RAW at least once.

>>52932459
Thanks for that link!

>>52932524
Getting a mostly new group, but only one player has experience and he is along with my dislike of super crunch. I'll take a look at Delving Deeper. So many games I haven't heard of!

>>52920519
Feng Shui seems like a better fit.

The Mummy (the Brendan Frasier one) is still the most OSR movie ever made.

>>52927246
>all it is is that it's a race-and-class but pretending it's race-as-class.

No, it isn't. An Elven Spellblade is neither a Fighter nor a Mage. Similarly, a Dwarven Craftpriest is not like a human Cleric. A Dwarven Machinist has no analogue at all.

>>52932574
Newbies will love it, it's so natural that feels freeform.
-Stats are 3d6 in order, modifiers are -1, +0 or +1
-Str modifies melee damage, Dex ranged to hit, Con hit points, Cha reactions and the like
-There's elves and hobbits and shit
And that's pretty much it. Remember to roll reactions and morale, and you're good to go.

If anything, you'll have to take care of balance, since the monster/treasure tables are SWINGY and balanced for large parties. But it can't get easier: 1st levels enter 1st dung. floor, where they fight 1HD critters. All damage is d6 and all HD is d6. It's a numbers game.

>>52933370
God I really like the idea of that. It's so straightforward and boiled down to its elements.

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Hello /osrg/, it's two column dungeon notes guy.

I tried to make my descriptions less prose and more compact. I've attached one page from it.

If you read it, does it look like the right amount of explanation and the right amount of summary?

>>52933809
Have you read Stonehell? It follows a style similar to what you're doing (with the map on the left page, then terse descriptions leading on to the right page).

>>52933932
No but I'll definitely check it out! The one-page dungeon layout seemed intriguing. Also didn't occur to me to look for reference material, thanks.

>>52933809
Better. Some suggestions-
>Kobold chieftain and 3 body guards. HD 2. hp 8, 4, 3. Chainmail + dagger. ML 8, or 6 if leader dies.
Unless you aren't familiar with Chain AC and dagger damage, obviously. But I like having it easy stats written like this, descriptable. Even the lizard couls use 'AC as leather', it'll give you a clue for its description.
HD can be sumed into 2 since you'll be using it here only for attack bonus / xp reward. Personal preference.
Oh and pre-rolled hp is always a good idea. You could also pre-roll their treasure and note it with their XP -- but I like how light are your stats.

>5. Infinite scroll room
Try to keep all the rooms in one block, you might miss the last bit since it's in the other column (and it can jump to another page). If you use Word/LO/OO there's an option for that, 'keep paragraph with next'

BUT... where's treasure?

Why does LotFP use AC 12 as it's base line? Doesn't that just make it unnecessarily likely that people miss each other in combat?

>>52920027
>>52920132
I'll ask you guys something: Considering the party HP range is more static, would you say usiing d6 for monster HD would make sense?

>>52934207
Right now I have rooms with treasures later in the dungeon, but I might wanna note down some loot for the kobold chieftain and guards?

>>52934315
Welp, if you play btb it's a good idea, because even individual treasure it's retarded slow to dice.
You can simplify and say something like 'each bloke with pokets carries d10 gold, bosses d100'
Also remember to give them assorted tools, torches, random keys, stuff like that.

BTW, I can't tell without a map but it sounds a bit linear from the description.

>>52934226
There are combat options that can mitigate it some (Parry, Press, and Defensive) which makes being a Fighter more worth it.

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I've read about Western Marshes today and I thought to myself "boy that would be a neat thing to try running". I then realized I never read any wilderness adventuring rules in my life. Normally when I want to research a game mechanic I go back to 1974 and continue from there, but lately I've been feeling like maybe it would be easier to just ask what game did it best and ignore all the stepping stones.

So /osr/, recommend me some robust wilderness adventuring rules.

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>>52934392
I like the idea of just rolling the treasure. Much rather just keep note of how much treasure I've given out and how much levels of worth are left in the treasure rooms.

This is part of the map, it's a little linear but there's some loops. Helps me since I'm not super experienced.

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>>52933809
You could trim it down a bit, but I would feel comfortable using it as you've written.
Only things that really miff me are the inconsistent "bodyguard" and "body guard" and the missing centipede stats.

Separate from your formatting, I'm not a fan of the entrance. It branches quickly, but not in room 1. It's almost like room 1 isn't part of the "dungeon"...

>>52934526
Having actually seen the dungeon, the sheer number of dead ends is a bit disappointing.
The /one door/ that goes inward being barred makes sense, but a secret door in 4's pit and/or a second door in 5 would be a nice touch?

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>>52934616
I'm open for changes. Where would those doors lead? I could probably keep the rooms and just redraw it with some more sprawlyness.

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>>52934616
I'm already boarding on autism,but I'm not about to repost this /again/.
>Hidden passage (brick wall, push a brick).
*Hidden passage (push brick).

>Old bed and table S. Door has bar.
*Old bed + table S. Door bars.

>>52934207
>you might miss the last bit since it's in the other column
H-hey...! Speaking of which...

>>52934526
>I like the idea of just rolling the treasure.
At some point you've written too much and cluttered your page, but there's generally no harm in pre-rolling things.
Oh, also: Where is the Wandering Monster table?

>>52934782
This is just one page of about 3, not a one-page thing. I'll work on it, thanks for reminding me though.

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>>52934775
>Where would those doors lead?

>second door in 5
Trapdoor (not a trap or hidden, just a door in the floor) leads to a hidden door in room 7 (comes out under/behind the statue).
>secret door in 4's pit
Upward slope that opens to room 11 (no door, juts a passage way). Rafters of room 11 connect the passage to the opposite wall, joins with a (ventilation?) shaft in the roof of room 11.

>>52933932
>>52934039
So I checked it out. It really does compress information well, the rooms are described with just one line each.

>>52934989
Thanks. I think I get the idea, multiple paths to the different rooms, multiple ways around obstacles. Might take a look at some other dungeons, make a small like 12 room one or so and just run it and get more experience.

>>52935123
I don't think your layout is *wrong* at all -- but it takes a lot of backtracking to navigate. It's actually a quite logic dungeon, inhabitants will defend it easily. Smart players will bribe/extort a mook for info/a map.

Anyway, don't overthink it. And be a cool anon and post it after you have playtested it!

>>52919709
>What level is Merlin?
Whatever you want him to be
>Are Magic-Users a race?
If you'd like them to be

I need a decent (but simple) table for food-stuffs: effects ef eating raw things, frozen tundra things, weird dungeon things, hunger, thirst, etc.
It doesn't need to be super realistic or gonzo, just functional shit so I can add scarcity and survival mechanics.
Mostly for running B4 under BX, but also wilderness exploration.

>>52931162
I don't think Customization has to lead to AD&D, I think it can work just fine with BX/BECMI/RC D&D, it's just a matter of how you handle it

>>52936307

The big problem is that the more mechanical customization and stuff you tack on, the slower chargen becomes, which is bad news in a highly lethal system where you are liable to be making new characters a lot, and especially mid-session.

>>52936413
honestly I wouldn't mind reducing the lethality of the game as well, never been that fond of it outside of DCC's Funnel system

but then I'm one of those people who are mostly interested in the OSR movement for the simpler systems when compared to WOTC editions(and thus ease of modification), the sheer amount of content(and the cross-compatibility most of it has with each other), and the fact that some of the most interesting stuff in the industry is being published as part of it, not for any of the "Philosophical" reasons many people are in the OSR for(basically if you've seen Meet The Engineer, my approach to problem solving and RPG's is from an Engineer's one, not a Philosopher's one)

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>>52936735

>reducing lethality

I'm fairly fond of the attached. It's a very pulpy/sword and sorcery solution.

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>>52934234
I like using d8s because of the action economy. A party of 5 can do 5 smart things in the time it takes a creature to do 1 smart thing. Hasn't been a problem so far, but we haven't had a ton of combat encounters where it mattered.

>>52936735
>reducing lethality
0hp = ko, bleeding out and lose 1 pt of Con.
Unless attended (anybody can do this), death after combat.

>>52934234
Monster should be scary and lethal.
If you want a less-letal game, consider simply using average hp (4 or 5 hp per HD) instead of rolling it for each critter. It takes away lots of deaths caused by 'crap rolls', and players get a better grip on how leathal are certain enemies.
Don't tell players about this, obvs.

Any good small low-level crawls set in a forest?

>>52935190
I'll do that! If not for any other reason that to upload more stuff in this sweet B/x font. (Souvenir-Light)

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I come with a request: I'm looking for a specific web-based random hex map generator. I remember little of it, but it had at least 4 theme settings: fantasy, fantasy underworld, post-apocalyptic, post-apocalyptic underworld, and had a setting that could only be on/off and was called "iron walls" for games taking place entirely inside a habitat spaceship. I faintly recollect the background color of the selection dialog was black.

Does anyone know which one I mean?

>>52937181
http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/

>>52937223
You're a goddamn wizard Anon. Any way I could return the favor?

>>52937267
Just run the best damn game you can for your players.

>>52937309
In your name, Anon, I will form a group and run the best damn game I can.

>>52933809
You might want to flesh out that feather a little better. How long does it take? How portable is it? (Do you need to desk, or just the feather?)
It reads like it's infinite scrolls (1 at a time), right at hand, forever. Which is bonkers.

There's... some restraint to it (if the scroll goes missing the feather stays "jammed."), but it still feels like too many resources for effectively nothing?
If it's not portable, there's the extra cost of WM checks as you run to/from room 5, but making it not portable is a bummer since it's interesting treasure.

Labyrinth Lord uses Gold standard, no? So if I run a labyrinth adventure in LotFP, for instance, I would want to reduce the treasure values by a factor of 10? (1gp=10sp?)

>>52937815
Yeah the idea was to have it just work in that particular room, so there's access to the force pull spell (look at an object, read spell, comes flying at you) in the dungeon and then you get one home as a souvenir. Haven't given it more thought than that.

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>>52938060
Silver standard a best.

>>52938105
How do you switch to silver standard if you already started the game on gold standard?

Best I've figured out is to just remove all gold from loot piles and replace it with ten times the silver coins.

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>>52925524
I really like the Spotlight Dogs. They speak to me on a personal level.

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>>52938202
Wouldn't worry too much about it. The "Silver Standard" just means "most of the time, we track stuff in silver pieces".

But in the real world, you've got different bills and coins all over the place. If you found a wallet with 2 20s and a 50, and the next day, found a wallet with 5 10s, you wouldn't freak out.

The main concern is to ensure the Player Purchasing Power = Loot = Leveling balance is maintained.

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>>52933932
So I tried out copying some of the room descriptions from the first level in Stonehell into the two column format I have.

Really dig this, gives a lot more sense of what a nice compressed description should look like.

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>>52938244
Is it because nobody looks you in the face, or because you have trouble telling butchers from florists?

>>52938249
Yeah that's mostly the thing. In LotFP 1 sp = 1 xp. So I want to run it with the balancing it was intended to have.

>>52938060

Yep. Swap gold to be silver, silver to be copper, and copper to be the trash that it is in a gold standard game.

>>52938266
It's the pack tactics, actually. The weirdness doesn't matter so much as the mechanics of the monster, and these are a game-changer. Being followed around by a pack of them who keep you illuminated so that other, bigger things will attack you? Yes please.

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>>52938313
Sure, that works.

But I'd recommend fixing a real-world dollar value in your mind too, so that you can easily estimate costs and purchasing power. https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/currency-in-osr-games.html

>>52938335
So a treasure worth 3,000 sp would be worth 3,000 cp in silver standard. Then, you simplify this and just hand out 300 sp?

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>>52938344
I bet they get into ferocious battles with Grues.
http://goblinpunch.blogspot.ca/2016/05/undermen-grues-and-grue-coins.html

>>52938389

If you like, or you can hand out 3,000cp, knowing that in a silver standard a copper piece is worthwhile.

>>52938445
Interesting logistic puzzle if not anything else.

Bonus question; How many coins can you fit in a LotFP encumberance slot?

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>>52938609

100 coins counts as 1 regular item in LotFP. Carried sacks counter as an oversized item.

Pg. 38, Rules & Magic

>>52938367

This may be helpful for those purposes.

>>52931440
The skill system's a damn sight better than 2E's NWPs, but it's still not really necessary or inspirational and I'd only use it if you and your players really hate going without them. They're essentially an option included to make Basic play more in tune with typical early-'90s RPGs, which in hindsight isn't very praiseworthy.

The Weapon Mastery rules are kinda kludgy as fuck and ironically really restrict the Fighter in that he can no longer use all weapons as he finds them, since he has restricted slots. I'd at the very least ditch the slot thing and give Fighters mastery levels in *all* weapons at set levels rather than use restricted slots, which don't really limit power much and does limit the DM's ability to place whatever magic weapons he likes and have them be usable, instead of either catering to or fucking over players' weapon mastery choices.

Also, Weapon Mastery is a *significant* power boost for the Fighter-types, so my advice is to only introduce it if you find the Fighters are lagging behind at mid-to-high levels.

>>52932524
>>52933370
I've never played an RPG before and i'm looking for something simple to learn so i can GM and get some friends into. Seems like OSR games are good for that, right?
If so, what could be the best to learn for a first timer? Everyone seems to praise Labyrinth Lord, or the Original edition of D&D but that thing you say about Delving Deeper makes it to seem easier to grasp.

>>52938202
Off that topic, but in that vein: All prices are arbitrary.
>http://faculty.goucher.edu/eng240/medieval_prices.html

On a further tangent, that page directed me to https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/sbook.asp
Has anyone used that site before? How good is it?

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>>52938260
>Berserkers (5) are cooking “long pig“ over a small fire.

>>52938202
>Best I've figured out is to just remove all gold from loot piles and replace it with ten times the silver coins.
That doesn't make a bit of goddamn sense, that's not the point of a silver standard. The point is to run 1 sp = 1 XP instead of 1 gp = 1 XP, so just convert the gold coins to silver coins and preexisting silver and copper coins to 1/10 as many. Similarly, all prices formerly listed in gp are now sp (or if you prefer making stuff more expensive, don't even touch the price lists).

If you've been running a gold standard before you have to just tell the players that you're switching over.

Players never ever find secret doors. What am I doing wrong?

>>52939415

Have a monster use one to ambush them some time. They'll realize that secret doors are a thing, and search for them more often.

As a bonus, have the secret door lead somewhere cool.

>>52939415
Give one of the players a magical bell that chimes softly every 2d6 minutes when it is within 100ft of a secret. Any secret.

>>52939447
This, or have them find a treasure map in some hoard (these can be randomly rolled as scrolls, at least in Basic) which shows some secret door they missed in a place they've already been, and put treasure behind that secret door. Then let them try to figure out how to open the door.

If neither way works, your players may just be morons.

>>52939142
Yep, it's fairly simple, and you can always ignore rules and it won't break.
The problem with OD&D it's how it's written, and even Delving Deeper sucks a bit on that part. Give it a read and see if you understand how it goes; if not you can always try S&W which is a bit different (dumbed down explanations, but added crunch and houserules).
LL is a B/X clone, and that means good stuff with a dash of crunch. B/X is a very VERY solid game, and LL keeps most of the original stuff in place.
But it's no big deal, just grab whatever and bullshit it, it'll be fun.

Grab the Delving Deeper players book, try making a couple of characters, then read the DM book. Afterwards you could do a solo run using this http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/tool_ultimate.php (it's for B/X, but stats and everything should be very similar)

>>52939637
>http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/tool_ultimate.php
God DAMN, this is an extensive fuckin' generator. Nice, Anon!

>>52919709
Can I use AD&D monsters with B/X?

>>52939949
If you nudge the AC by 1.

>>52939949
With consummate ease.

>>52939960
Not even that -- you forget that the MM was published with OD&D (and thus Basic) ACs. It's actually *easier* to use correctly with Basic than with AD&D, at least in that sense.

>>52939949
>>52939960
>>52940009
but some AD&D monsters have psionics anons

>>52940048
Attach the power write-ups and nick the "psionic attacks upon non-psionics" table from Eldritch Wizardry.
Frankly, you should have stolen that as a sanity system even without psionics.

>>52939890
You'll love this, then http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/tool_delve.php

The only problem is that they don't generate btb (donjon does). You have to tune a bit treasure and monsters, and even then it's still quite 'tame' and stingy

>>52934467
Working on a West Marches game myself.

http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/17308/roleplaying-games/hexcrawl

Is a good place to start.

>>52937000
Wormskin

>>52940195
That one doesn't look nearly as ultimate.

For real, what's the difference between them? Skimming over it the main thing I can detect is that the "ultimate" version lets you leave out the tiles of artists you don't like, and choose whether it's all cavern, all dungeon, or both?

>>52940009
>It's actually *easier* to use correctly with [whatever] than with AD&D, at least in that sense.
Oh, speaking of which! You (>>52940048) should fix the psionic monsters, they got converted wrong.
Mindflayers have the correct number of PSPs. Everything else needs (listed PSPs * 2) + 4/ability + 10/combat mode.

>>52940587
ffs man give it a go.
It generates a fucking megadungeon. First a vertical cut then populates each floor individually, based on general specs, floor type and outside visitors.
It leaves you some stuff to figure out, tho -- inserting level connectors for example.

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So I've found the people in /osr to be usually of a better quality than the rest of /tg.

Out of curiosity, would any of you happen to be interested in a game of Hackmaster 5E? Already have a group but could use one more reliable player.

>>52940967
>It generates a fucking megadungeon.
Shhheeeeeeit.

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>>52939415
Thematic clues.

They find an open secret door behind a tapestry. There's treasure in the secret room.

The next time there's a tapestry, you bet they're going to check it.

Just saying "I search the walls" is fucking boring. Reward players for paying attention.

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>>52934467
Have you tried this? If that's a redundant question I apologize.

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What are the first signs that the War has gone wrong?

>>52943547
Better question, why are they luring that out?

>>52943547
Bodies don't stay dead, entire battlefields merge into one pissed off spirit of war.

>>52939231
That means they're eating human flesh.

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>>52943718
Are you being facetious?

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>>52943639
You can't get accurate prophecies from the living. If the Authority can't see the future, no one can.

But the dead are infinite and patient and wise, in aggregate. Feed them books and still-living witnesses and tempt forth answers with infants, and see if they will offer wisdom concerning the likely course of future events. They can't see what will happen, only what might happen.

>>52938856
That's a pretty clever way of doing economy.

>>52943799
He's correct tho

>>52943825
Necromancers do all the "proper" divination?
As a faux-etymologist, I can get behind that.

>>52943857
I was aware. Hence the image >>52939231

>>52943841

It's one of my favorite bits from Vornheim. And there's a lot to like in that book.

>>52943799
No it means I googled the word and the internet told me it's a colloquial word for human flesh.

>>52943868
Zak does clever stuff every now and then.

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>>52943865
>Necromancers do all the "proper" divination?

Yup. Most Wizard schools can scry the present, and a fair number have ways of seeing into the past. Illusionists have ways of seeing /alternate/ futures, but never the one that's going to occur, or the ones that clearly indicate what's /not/ going to occur.

Necromancers - the proper kind, the actual "speak with dead" kind, are incredibly powerful. They've got access to a giant dead think tank or quantum computer or whatever you want to call it.

>>52943919
>llusionists have ways of seeing /alternate/ futures,
Seems pretty useful for prediction trading, once you set up mirror world phone-tree.

>>52943869
My take away is that you don't watch Futurama.
https://youtu.be/X4RuB3gT8t0

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>>52943965
>Seems pretty useful for prediction trading, once you set up mirror world phone-tree.

Illusionists try it from time to time. It seems like one of those great ideas. "What if we contacted our mirror selves, and got them to contact their mirror selves, and so on, and so forth, and started to share information? We'd be rich! Wise and rich!"

First off, most of the information is garbage, and there's no way to filter it. Second, you only need one doppleganger, minibeholder, or evil illusionist to ruin the entire scheme and if you expand the scheme far enough, you'll inevitably get one.

>>52944057
Storerooms worth of Scry Relay Chat logs would make for some interesting dungeon loot.

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>>52944100
The bash.org of a parallel kingdom.

Anyway, it's a neat idea, like I said, but it tends to lead to city- or tower- exploding disasters. Illusionists are less stable than alchemists. At least alchemy only blows up physical objects.

I'm throwing together a 1st level LL game for some people that have never played an RPG before. I know people always recommend Lost City and Tower of the Stargazer as good starter modules but I've never been particularly thrilled by them. Are there any other good adventures out there there that'll make a good 1st impression?

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>>52944400

I wrote a "Learning Dungeon" for people in exactly this position. It's basic. It's adaptable. It's designed to teach new players all sorts of useful things.

https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/03/osr-learning-dungeon.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/04/osr-learning-dungeon-level-2.html

>>52944447
>not posting the third level
>not posting the Animist either

>>52944447
Needs more loops.

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>>52944472
Oh please. By the time new anon gets through levels 1 and 2, levels 3 and beyond will be posted. Besides, it's a great starting point. Who says my ideas after that are any good?

>>52944502
If absolutely nothing else, you write good food for thought.

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>>52944501
We'll get there. Level 3 is all about loops and using the dungeon's terrain to help/save you. The entire level is more-or-less a cloverleaf. There's a passage to the surface, a secret passage to the clay warrior room, and all kinds of weird side-passages. The first 2 levels are linear just to make sure the new players don't get completely fucked over. After that, and considering there's a dire Basilisk, 2d20+10 goblins, a mummified snake-man wizard, a pissed-off flame elemental, and skeleton jellies on Level 3, the relatively straight segments of 1 and 2 are going to be a blessed relief and a somewhat safe retreat.

>>52944555
I appriciate you doing these introduction dungeos. I think we all can agree upon a good first dungeon being absent in the osr community, with how often it comes up as a question.

>>52944501
I think you could a small loop that leads out of room 6, into 2 other mostly empty rooms and then back to room 6? Just introduce the concept of loops, not what they're used for. Teach that you get to choose what way to go. Maybe have a secret entrance into the real tomb, that's there for particularly observant players?

How to A) have crits B) keeping the surprise! factor without making them retarded meme material C) keep them low-powered?

>>52940216
Which issue?

>>52945800
Have a chart based on type of weapon with 10-20 results each with one being literally "You hit for regular damage" to keep them on their toes. No auto-deaths. On a natural roll of a 20 (19 or 20 for Fighters who are 3 or more levels above the enemy's HD), have them roll on the chart for the appropriate weapon. MUs don't get their own chart because they already have massive spell lists.

>>52946078
That sounds quite nice actually. I could do a d12 table for this. Any ideas for how hardcore should be the entries?
In my game permanent limb lost is kind of taboo-- but otherwise anything goes.

>>52946145
Well, I would have said the lower end rolls be pretty generic ones like double damage, normal damage but the enemy takes a penalty to all future attacks, etc. leading up to loss of limbs. I guess you could just simulate it with long-term penalties to attributes and stuff.

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>>52946145
>In my game permanent limb lost is kind of taboo
Booooo!

>>52946203
If PCs do stupid shit it'll happen, but otherwise I'll never impose it on them. Losing one limb can be cool and that but at some point you start looking like a wriggling potato rather than a badass adventurer.

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>>52946239
Then they gain character! Like this fine fellow!

>>52936908
I like your approach here. I struggle bringing together more than 2-3 people together for a game, so reducing the die may work well to bring it a tiny bit more in-tune to the experience.
>>52936991
To be honest, I'm leaning towards it because I got a bunch of d6's around at all time, but not as many d8's
So when a fight breaks out, I can just easily grab the necessary quantity of dice, roll them on the table, group them together for each monster, and when they get damaged, I can just remove dice or rotate them to a different number.

Them being scary and lethal shouldn't be directly related to their HP. They can still rend your flesh with a single well-placed blow. And the truly scary critters have more impressive defensive and offensive capabilities than just HP.

>>52943547
When you forget who you're fighting or what you're fighting for.

>>52944134
>Anyway, it's a neat idea, like I said, but it tends to lead to city- or tower- exploding disasters.
This seems like exactly the kind of volatile shit you want in magical treasure hoards. Stuff the players will consider stupidly valuable *because* it's a wrecking ball.

You probably get this a lot, but I didn't see it in the OP or pastebin- for someone who's never DMed OSR, what's the best system to start with?

>>52946799
You find two shipping containers of +1 small arms. Included is a dozen +3 man portable surface to air missiles. (1 charge remaining)

>>52947332
Hello anon. Any preferences about what you/your group would like to play? Did you try reading upthread?

>>52947332
B/X is pretty simple to learn and play. Just go with the Basic book for now, move on to Expert if your party survives long enough, then maybe give Advanced a look when you're up for it.

>>52947359
One guy suggested running 1e, but I've never played it myself.
>>52947366
Okay, I'll look into it.

>>52947366
So is B/X a revised edition?

Cause I got a boxed set that looked identical in 1990. I was only 9 years old, but I remember it exactly.

Lo and behold over 25 years later I see the exact same Box art on the exact same box.

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Here. SLUGS.

>>52947480
Holy shit dude, thanks. Where did you even find this?

>>52947411
The 91 version (black box) is even simpler than BX, it's what I use. Combat is broken, you'll want to allow move+attack on the same round.

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>>52945355
Oh absolutely!

I just don't think that loops are something that needs to be brought up immediately. I'm perfectly content bringing them up in session 2 or 3.

Level 1 is almost perfectly symmetrical. Symmetry = good, orderly, safe, predictable. As the dungeon gets deeper, symmetry breaks down. Level 2 /looks/ symmetrical but obviously isn't. There's a lot going on. And Level 3 doesn't have any high-level patterns to guide the players.

>>52919709
Ignoring the obvious differences between the systems, what could I do to give a Pathfinder game a more OSR feel?
>Include monsters without regard to their CR?
>Stronger emphasis on encumbrance?
>Disregard skill checks if a player describes their action thoroughly and well?

What do I use to create TSR style dungeon maps in my browser?

>>52948456
http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/tool_dmap.php
https://davesmapper.com/
for random/geomorphs.

http://pyromancers.com/dungeon-painter-online/
for drawing/tiles. There's a dropdown with oldschool D&D and B&W options.

>>52947575
It's been re released as pay what you want

>>52948603
I like the idea of that pyromancer editor, but it's kinda unwieldy and doesn't seem to have some stuff like doors (I saw pit traps and beds) or ways to number the rooms?

>>52948800
https://campaignwiki.org/gridmapper.svg
This might be more to your liking

>>52919709
there's an OSR game about space stuff right? What's the name of the game again?
How are the rules for spaceship combat?

>>52949048
Stars Without Number, the rules I haven't really looked into because I'm a wierdo who prefers making stuff to using it but they seem fairly basic, though one of the supplements adds a bit more to it.

>>52949709
>Stars Without Number
neat, will take a look

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>>52944400
Tomb Of The Iron God is a direct dungeon crawl with a focus on undead I used for first adventuring. Its already geared for LL. I liked it, had to add a few bits to make it more interactive.

I like Prison Of The Hated Pretender too but haven't had a chance to run it. Seems like it has more built in stuff for players to noodle with. Same for T1 Village Of Hommlet, straightforward enough but still interesting.

The One-Page dungeon contest has a lot of material, some of them are really good. its worth looking at.

>>52949048

Stars Without Number, White Star, Strange Stars, and probably some more I'm forgetting.

Somebody here plays re-rolling character's HD other than at level up?
For example re-rolling all your HD after a long rest or before a combat.

How's it? More lethal, less? Do players like it?

>>52947332
Best OSR system?
Probably B/X, since it's light but the rules are tight.

Best system in general?
Probably either Powered by the Apocalypse or Ryuutama?

>>52947407
>One guy suggested running 1e
One guy gave you bad advice.
The 1e DMG is a must read, but 1e is a horrendous place to start.

>>52921300
re: adjusting PF players to the possible carnage of a low level dungeon crawl--

Start out by being honest with them, and say there's a decent chance at least one of their characters will die. They can roleplay just like normal, but let the character develop through play rather than investing a lot of time and thought into backstory and so on right away. Make characters together, and make them quickly--no dithering around the table for an hour and a half with character creation.

I think every player I've had who's gotten salty about a character dying (or losing an ability or whatever) was upset because they'd invested time and energy into the character, and thus had earned plot armor.

Maybe even roll up random starting equipment to hammer home the idea that level one characters are more like gamepieces than "characters", at least until they prove ingenious enough to survive.

>>52948398
>Include monsters without regard to their CR?
That's an awful idea in a combat centric game.
Weaker enemies in mass who exploit terrain might work, but stronger enemies will tear them a new one without some good retreat* rules.
*Assuming they even consider retreating. They probably won't.
>Stronger emphasis on encumbrance?
Not a bad idea, but consider what you expect your PCs to carry.
>Disregard skill checks if a player describes their action thoroughly and well?
Ding ding ding.

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>>52949048
It's not really about space, but I'm going to plug Spelljammer.

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>>52947
>You cannot have a meaningful campaign if slug quotas are not kept.

>>52925524
Wait, where is Veins in the trove?

>>52952165
Not in there

>>52952180
Oh :(

>>52947480
>love slug

My sides have left the atmosphere.

>>52951331
>Best OSR system?
>Probably B/X, since it's light but the rules are tight.
B/X is great, but imo, ACKs improved the system a lot


>Best system in general?
>Probably either Powered by the Apocalypse or Ryuutama?
How is Ryuutama?

>>52922533
>No sables
REEEEE
I used to have a pet sable, it was named Bobby, I liked it.

>>52952203

It was posted recently, check the prior threads, or look in the previous PDF share thread.

SO... What's the deal with dwarves, gargoyles and medusas?

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>>52952320
They look like they'd be pretty close to martens, so if you have stats for those you can use 'em for sables.

>>52952402
Oh cool. Found it.

Here you go anyone who doesn't have it: https://mega.nz/#!EIcTEZIK!Z1CZUOfXwQ-ZKtaRqm34A9l2uQvqvG24WCnKW8o1bWU

Did anyone ever scan a copy of Fire on the Velvet Horizon?

>>52952409
now that you made me think about it
>dwarves like stone
>gargoyles are made of stone
>thus dwarves probably try to fuck gargoyles

>>52952409
>>52952440
Do dwarves keep stoning pets around? Cockatrice hatcheries and all that. Is saving vs petrification drug slang?

Are there monsters in D&D immune to petrification? No, really, I can't think of any.

What is the osr with more character options?

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>>52952440

>gargoyle sex

Stop inserting your weird fetishes, Raggi!

>>52952606
ACKS probably.

>>52952606
2e has by far the most options, even without all the shovelware splats.
But the implication, for any edition, is that the ref. will homebrew anything you'd like if it doesn't break tone.

5 foot or 10 foot squares for dungeon mapping?

>>52952800
10 for dungeons
5 is acceptable for houses

>>52952607
>gargoyle sex
>Stop inserting your weird fetishes, Raggi!
look man, it's not my fault it popped into my mind and now I can't stop thinking about it

is Low Fantasy Gaming good?

>>52941647
I'd be interested except already have two games going.

>>52952800
If your corridors are 5ft wide then you should seriously consider killing yourself.

>>52953387
Maybe some alleyways.

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>>52953387
Elaborate

>>52953387
my corridors are 4.9 ft wide what now

>>52951446
>>52948398

Thanks. Maybe I'll try to emphasize retreat as an option by
1. Reminding the players that there's no shame in retreating in the face of superior shit
2. Letting them find things lying around that might help them retreat (Caltrops, Marbles, "smoke bombs", scrolls of "Slow" and the like)
3. Award some experience for a successful escape

Maybe bringing in Treasure XP might encourage them to think about dungeon delving differently.

>>52953516
>1. Reminding the players that there's no shame in retreating in the face of superior shit

This is fine, as long as you allow them the opportunity and information to properly assess difficulty in some way.

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>>52953421
Choke points are nice and all, but group fights in 5ft coridoors are cancer.

>>52953421
What is going on in there? What are all those reddish brown squares?