Fresh topics edition Last thread: >>52785622→ >S

I see a lot of people shitting on Guards viability, but out of six games played so far I've only lost two, and they were both bottle tests first round games.

Taking a commissar makes this a non-issue - with so many bodies there's fuck all most other armies can do, even against Harlequins I've come out on top twice. It's a hard slog for them when they have four or five models to eight or nine++

Anyone else playing Guard and loving it? They're definitely not as underwhelming as in straight 40k.

>>52799788
I thought about taking their 3 gunners at the start and giving them all plasma weapons. Would you say that's viable?

>>52799788
Do take in mind that 80% of the posters here never play a game and only look at the rules on the paper to decide what is 'balanced'

It's even worse with Shadow War since it's only been out AND people are directly using the experiences with Necromunda.

Is there an established paint scheme for Freebootas? I'm thinking of painting my Orks as them.

>>52799802
I went two plasmas and a flamer, the guys are pretty squishy even with carapace so the extra points are better spent on a recruit early in the piece.

The flamer doesn't get fired often but if you can get him to a good location the flamer on overwatch has thus far managed to guarantee me control of that area of the board.

Your mileage may vary though, the plasmas are great weapons. Boys before toys is definitely a thing here.

>>52799810
That's a good point, I've been swinging these guardsmen around since 3rd so I would hate to see anyone turned off by angry nerds on the internet.

From what I've witnessed nearly every game has been a good matchup, except playing against that fucking eldar turret thing fuck that haha.

>>52799830
Reds blacks and browns mostly, but not really in any kind of standard way. Post pics when you get to it!

>>52799788

I'm hopefully going to get my first games in with my guard tonight.

How do you find they stack up against other armies which can take three specialists? Skitarii get the same stat line as us but with better armour, while GSC can get more dudes.

>>52799918
I actually haven't played either yet, there's a GSC list in one of my campaigns I'm hoping to play next week but no one has brought Skitarii.

I went down to Eldar and Grey Knights, but have come up against Space Marines, Harlequins, Tyranids, and Orks.

Good luck my dude, let us know how you go!

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>>52799830
Freebootas are a diverse lot, from Goffs who want the bestest fight, to Evil suns who want to ride the fastes kroozers, Deffskulls on the cuttign' edge of lootin and Blood axes that see freebootin as a less judgemental of their kunnin' ways.

Most are Bad moons in it for the money, so yellow//gold is big with them, they are also a luck reliant lot so blue tends to feature.
Also yeah black.
Other colours apply as well though that tends to be klan markings or just snazzy decor.

Only Klan that don't really go all in for freebooter are Snakebites who like their swamp and distrust spaceships (though a few are the opposite and jump at the chance of ANY novelty), of course you can always include some Press-ganged "savages"

'Ere Kaptin Badrukk, da Freeboota king, he's yellow on the inside (no seriously, he supposed to wear a gold-plated power armour under the coat.)

Towards the end of the last thread, some folks were talking about Warriors with more than 2 pairs of Scything Talons. Problem with that is, how do you think that actually happens? They can't physically do that.
If you're going to go off of the,
>>A fighter with two pairs of scything talons adds 1 to its Weapon Skill in hand-to-hand combat.
>>A fighter with three pairs of scything talons adds 2 to its Weapon Skill in hand-to-hand combat instead.
I'll stop you there and direct you to the Ravener, whom starts with 3 sets of Scything Talons.
>>Wargear: A Ravener has three pairs of scything talons and a chitin carapace.
>>It may also do any of the following:
>>Exchange one pair of scything talons for a pair of rending claws.
>>Take a pair of spinefists, a deathspitter or a devourer.

The clause of having 3 or more is LITERALLY only there for the Ravener.

>>52800183
Are people really that stupid? Maybe they should look at the miniatures from time to time instead of blindly looking at the text in a PDF

>>52800213
It's been 15 years since 40k players last had to think, it's just been RAW/RAI/FAQ arguments.

>>52800218
yeah I noticed that, the whole Harlequin flip-belt discussion had shades of that as well.

The question is never, what makes sense and is 'fun', but what can I get away with or how can I deny my opponent advantages...

>>52800239
Makes me glad my meta is very reasonable, they unilaterally agreed that genestealers have flesh hooks no matter what the rules say.

>>52800239

>The question is never, what makes sense and is 'fun', but what can I get away with or how can I deny my opponent advantages...

Honestly, I saw it the other way. With one side arguing 'The rules allow this as-written, it should be fixed' and the other arguing 'No one would reasonably allow that' and just not getting what the others mean.

>>52800270
But some of the scenarios that are being argued about are very hypothetical and not based in any form of experience. People need to discuss less about rules and play more, and then discuss those specific experiences instead of 'potential scenarios' that might not be relevant at all for 80% of the players.

>>52800287

Eh, I'd disagree with that. White room talk is very important for finding edge case scenarios that may not turn up in regular play but still might require fixing.

>>52800287

>But some of the scenarios that are being argued about are very hypothetical and not based in any form of experience.

I think that covers '90% of everyone talking about anything in these threads'. The game is barely out, almost no one has had enough time for a full campaign.

>>52800270
That was just in the end. In the beginning the discussion was "blargh clowns can teleport omg op" vs "idiot, that can't possibly be what's intended".

Then once the "teleporting clowns" muppets calmed down, the discussion became "does this need clarification?", which it clearly does since a bunch of people couldn't interpret it in a sensible way. :)

>>52799852
>>52800041
Good to know. I was thinking about buying some conversion bits, but the fact that the bits come from two different manufacturers is a bit of a pain. Is there a good place that sells both spellcrow and maximini stuff online?

>>52800396
Ebay stores that buy from both and then re-sell at mark-up..

>>52800311
Yeah but it does skew the conversation. Why not start with things that are relevant to people actually playing? I understand arguing edge cases for a game that is already out for a while since they might start turning up more often.

Those hypothetical issues might turn into memes and 'accepted truths' that hardly have a basis in fact.

To use an example, some of the tacticas on 1d4chan are written by people who haven't played that army (by admission in the article itself). And yet, those resources are often used as a first place to start informing yourself. The spread of misinformation or irrelevant information thus starts at the source.

It's like the pre-emptive banning of the Harlequin kill-team. I'm not saying GW has a good track record with game balance, but why not evaluate that in an actual campaign first?

>>52800424

I think the difference is that this isn't really misinformation like 'This is a bad unit' so much as actual information about the core mechanic of a faction. It's hard to discuss them as a faction without discussing how this is interpreted.

>>52800424
I'm all for play test but the friendless no-gamers will of course vomit their standard "Anecdotal" response and continue jerking off to theorycrafting.

>>52800424
Yeah I don't really take the harley whiners too seriously, considering quite a lot of players with different teams have claimed it's not all that bad through the threads here.

>>52800391

Sensible isn't really the same thing as 'What the rules say' so it ends up 'How far does your local group go with houserules' as that's what said interpretation is.

>>52800441

How did theorycrafting become such a dirty word on /tg/? It's a cornerstone of game design and done before playtesting to identify initial problems.

On a side note, the computer game of Space Marines, Tau and Tyranids goes free today, including the Brood War expansion. :)

>>52800444
If a rule doesn't make sense it needs to be interpreted. There's nothing sensible about interpreting the rule as harleys being able to teleport.

>>52800455

>Tau
>Psionic race with melee as the basic troops.

You don't seem to be capable of being more wrong.

>>52800461

Yes but that does make it houserules. Sensible houserules but houserules.

>>52800454
Right, and it's also the reason for post game release discussion on what went wrong, without taking into account that playtesting before release most likely have been conducted, and without having conducted playtesting of your own that confirm your fears.

Honestly, I generally don't like the design of the Harlequin kill team (Way more special rules than any other faction/ignore a lot of the games base rules. Would have done well as Eldar/Dark Eldar spec ops) independent of power level as I don't consider them a well designed team. They fill basically the same area as Raptors/Stealth Suits in the 'Fuck you terrain' assassin special model after all.

>>52800462
Haha, I'm just basing it on their likeness. I know it's not a carbon copy.

>>52800454
Because of the armchair generals that declare playing is superfluous, all games are determined at deployment, so rolling dice and setting up models is for chumps.

The ones that find a much better use of time is arguing about their hard counters that are always in their army, on the board, in range and always succeeds their dice rolls.

>>52800469
It's also RAI.

>>52800472

Yes but that doesn't make it any less valuable than playtesting. Playtesting is good for finding issues that you were not expecting but theorycrafting is what you use to find out why it's an issue once playtesting has pointed at something.

>>52800482

Yeah but on the same token we have the people who bitch that the game is broken because they bottled turn 1 because they set up everything in the open and thus it's the game's fault that the other guy is playing an OP group. Both have a lot of use.

>>52800484

I'm not disputing that. However, RAI is houserules rather than the default. That's kinda the entire point of RAI, houserules to get closer to what was intended rather than how the game actually plays.

>>52800455
>Protoss are Tau
>Not Eldar

Got a load of this catastrophic pleb.

>>52800494
It's completely useless for post game release discussion *without* additional playtesting. My point is that prior to the release of the rule set it's valuable because the discussions complement actual playtesting. But once the rules are released it's completely pointless to discuss theoretical lackings in said rules without at the same time playtesting.

>>52800454
Because a theory is normally vetted in practice. And that hardly happens anymore in Warhammer threads. Assumptions, become facts, become basis for further assumptions.

File: ShadowWarAdeptusArbites.pdf (137KB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

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Updated this with better wording for some stuff. Also scrapped chainswords in favor of a more fitting melee weapon.

>>52800502
I disagree. RAI is common sense. RAW is "not being able to read between the lines", or "autistic" as it would be labeled here on 4chan.

>>52800524
Dude, they look like Tau visually. That's all I was basing that on. I know they don't play like them.

>>52800532

While I'd dispute that. Math is very easy to check and that's a form of theorycrafting to help identify if something has issues.

Like an example from this very game: Genestealer cultists pay a surcharge on las weapons that the imperial guard do not, despite them being almost identical to autoweapons. It's pretty easy to theorycraft that las weapons are horribly overpriced for genestealer cultists.

>>52800551

>I disagree. RAI is common sense. RAW is "not being able to read between the lines", or "autistic" as it would be labeled here on 4chan.

And do you expect everyone to read between the lines in exactly the same way? The issue with common sense is that it's inherently subjective. It often overlaps but it's assumptions and subjective. RAI is changing from the actual rules of the game in favour of what you believe (As the writer hasn't said either way most of the time) to be correct.

I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying that it's houserules and the default state of the game is also worth discussing.

>>52800558
>Math is very easy to check

Yes. Checked by *playtesting*, but it's not checked. Hence it's pointless to discuss.

>>52800575

You can check math without playtesting. That's what actually running math tests and probability is for.

>>52800573
Again, it's common sense. People using common sense to interpret a rule in the most common sensical way will more often than not arrive at the same conclusion (possibly with minor differences that can easily be resolved by a compromise). That's what common sense is. Common sense is something that doesn't develop in humans until about the age of 25, so no, I don't expect everyone to be able to use common sense when interpreting the rules.

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>>52800455
What game?

>>52800581
That doesn't make it reality though. You have to apply it for it to not remain theoretical.

>>52800593
Starcraft with the Brood War expansion is released for free today.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/starcraft-goes-free-today-with-new-patch-its-first/1100-6449431/

>>52800596

The issue there is that playtesting is taking only a single probability set. Playtesting can give you very anomalous results.

Math however, can give you the actual probabilities of things happening, rather than it just being 'Well in this case, X happened'.

Are the rule difficult to understand ?

>>52800612
That's why they complement each other. As I previously said. One without the other however is fairly useless.

>>52800616
For some.

>>52800622

Eh, I'd say that same to same theorycrafting is fine without playtesting. Comparing two completely different things (Like a melee weapon and a ranged weapon) without playtesting is very difficult and likely to fail to produce anything of value but same to same (A melee weapon to a melee weapon or two ranged weapons with a similar purpose) is fine.

The issue comes when people go 'I am going to theorycraft only this exact factor, rather than going for a holistic approach to it'. Like comparing a weapon you can't move and shoot with to a weapon you can move and shoot with. Yes, the former may be more efficient at shooting if you only mathhammer it's offence as you are ignoring factors.

tl:dr - A lot of people theorycraft badly and it annoys me.

>>52800616

It's got a few grey areas (Can you choose which fire mode for plasma pistols in melee?) but the core is pretty easy to understand.

>>52800612
That's why you need to playtest is multiple times.

Theory/Math is for the quantitative testing
Playtesting is for the qualitative testing

>>52800646
Well ok, that I can agree with. But as you say, and with which I agree, people are not capable of taking into account all the little details that add up in a holistic approach. I suspect that's in part the reason for people complaining about Necrons for example. Or any other faction for that matter, that have been complained about. Because I've read through all the threads and seen players of pretty much every faction say their faction isn't too bad. Yet some theorycrafting people show up and start to complain about a faction being underpowered or whatever. So what's the difference between the two? The former has experience from playtesting it and the latter has not.

>>52800666
This. You locate a potential problem with theory/math. Then you test that in application over and over to see if it's actually a problem that breaks the game.

Just locating potential problems and complaining about them without testing them in application however is what most theorycrafters here seem to be doing.

So, orks, melee or shooty or a bit of both?

I'm leaning towards shooty because it fits in with the conversions I want to make but hitting enemies in cover on 6s doesn't sound great even with sustained fire

but maybe I'll just do melee boyz with shooty yoofs providing cover fire

>>52800655
Compared to the 40k rules how hard are they ?
Because I had a hard time understanding the core rule of the 7th edition

>>52800716

Orks are switch hitters. An ork with a shoota is still a viable threat in melee (What with 2 attacks and +1 on charges they'll kick the crap out almost everyone but clowns if they get the charge) and they get ranged weapons other armies would love (Shootas are amazing).

You want choppy and dakka to be properly orky.

>>52800716
I think you can get some shooty in there. Orks can shoot a lot even though not good. But taking advantage of their melee power is something that you should do imo, even if you don't focus completely on it.

>>52799788
I've been loving the Guard, I started with two plasmas and a toxic sniper. Only issue I had was game 2 tau ambush bottled me out first turn, but we've filled out the roster since then. I've been really enjoying the names and narrative I can give this small team of developing vets.

>>52800716
Shoot the choppy, chop the shooty.

Between sustained fire and simply having more grunts you'll be throwing, on average, 4x more bullets than the other guy, which easily balances out the lousy BS.

>>52800748
>2 attacks, +1 on charges, AND a buddy
>against clowns it's 3 buddies
If you can bring your numbers to bear even the clowns get scared.

So I found my old Necromunda rulebook and I was just wondering, are there major departures from the core rules to SWA?

>>52800883

Yeah. The issue with clowns is that whole 'They all cause fear'. You'll get your leadership bonus but it makes each charge a bit less sure.

>>52799772
About ready to make a commitment to purchase, but before I do:
Are Deldar fun to play?
Or will I just wind up frustrated and want to change army, if not quit?

>>52800914
83% to pass each test?
Unlucky dice happen and nothing is certain in the game, but it's not that bad.
I still consider the harlies as the underdog.
They can't win without engaging at all, but if they engage they'll do some damage and go out of action. It's a bad match for the long-term wellbeing of the orky team, but even worse for the harlequins.

>>52800968

Oh yeah. Not saying it's a bad option. It's one of the best options but it adds a bit more uncertainty.

Guy in 40kg dropped this

https://mega.nz/#!0tcUTSLI!CbZfDWqYYe0C2sIDLNlHCh1Wj9I6uihERaaGEb6wk3c

SWA rules scanned neatly.

>>52800910
A few to-hit modifiers are different.
A few familiar weapons are different. Notably Plasma got even better (no recharge on max power) and shotguns got awful (no manstoppers or bolts)
The meta is obvs a lot different with a lot more BS4, T4, armour, and cover-downgrading gear around. Actually scratch armour, armour's still shit.
Pre/Postgame is HEAVILY gutted. Can't tell if i appreciate it because this isn't Necromunda where you care about losing 3 fingers, or if I hate it because I really want to be rolling on d66 tables and scragging bitches over a vents system.

>>52800183
People are literally morons. The only model that the "if a fighter has more than two pairs of arms" rule can ever apply to is a ravener, since warriors have exactly two pairs of arms, no more, no less.

A warrior with two boneswords or two pairs of scything talons gets +1 attack dice for having two hand-to-hand weapons like every other model in the game, but gets no further bonuses whatsoever for additional weapons.

>>52801112

>Can't tell if i appreciate it because this isn't Necromunda where you care about losing 3 fingers

I appreciate that part imo. I think that they could have done a bigger table though without going heavy on permanent injury though. Permanent injury is harder to justify with most factions that have either excellent medical options or just don't care and heal super well.

>>52800910
Well one of the main things I've noticed gone is the underdog rules, which I think make necromunda one of the most balanced skirmish games ever made.

Now it feels like there's less motivation for new teams or teams that have been unlucky to face more veteran teams, which can kill campaigns prematurely.

Another thing that the lack of XP proper kills is the vying for power element, which would've been cool in gangs like orks for example. Where if a boy was to gain more experience than the nob they would challenge them for control of the gang, which more often than not left one of them dead or kicked out (and in necromunda that meant other gangs could recruit them), but the other with a big boost (IIRC the lowest thing a surviving leader could get from the challenge was +1 LD).

>>52801144

>Another thing that the lack of XP proper kills is the vying for power element

That one is hard to justify for most teams other than orks sadly.

>>52801133
I think I'd have been fine with the 1d6 chart if it didn't feel like 50% of casualties walked away with Frenzy or something. I don't think there's any -ve stat penalties at all, only increases through the advances table.

>>52801154
Murder elves would appreciate it too I think, but yeah it would be fairly niche in the grand scheme.

>>52801156
>>52801133
So.. would it be better or worse to run Necromunda with SWA teams, or SWA vanilla?

>>52801156

Oh yeah, I meant that the game doesn't have permanent injuries like necromunda (Which I don't really see as a bad thing) but yeah, a bigger table would have been very nice.

I'd have likely gone with (if I was designing it), injuries having a duration. After that amount of time you've either healed or you've gotten an augmentation to fix you up.

Also helps prevent the 'Well, this guy has been buttfucked into uselessness. Might as well get rid of him' that necromunda sometimes has as I'll admit I never found that very fun.

Too much Frenzy is a pain though, especially for anyone set up for short range shooting. Better hope you can shoot further than you can charge.

>>52801175

Eh, both have upsides and downsides. Not all necromunda rules make a heap of fluff sense in SWA but they are more expansive.

>>52801175
SWA vanilla. There's enough 40kids calling this "Necromunda 2.0" instead of a Kill Team game as-is.

That being said, friends don't let friends play Tau. Everything else seems reasonable but Tau somehow got BS3-only dudes with no camo gear, no photovisors, and a (only) basic weapon that's arguably worse than their (only) pistol weapon.

I am having so much fun thinking up crazy ideas for teams, but I wish GW had allowed for more variety in models. Maybe the HoR rules have just spoiled me.

>>52801243

Do you mean homebrew or modeling?

So when is the rules going to be reprinted?

>>52801247
For example: I want to play Dark Eldar, I get to bring Wyches. No Warriors, Wracks, Reavers, Mandrakes, Hellions or Incubi, even though all of those could be used to make a cool and thematic force.

>>52801312
I homebrewed a Kabalite force since I had a squad of finished squad of kabalites that I'd love to use.

>>52801194
It *is* the latest in a series of standalone skirmish games from gw though. Started with Confrontation. Then Necromunda. And so on. This is the latest entry in that genre.

>>52799810
Also that everyone's speaking from anecdotal local meta experience.

Some people are playing with one other person and between the two of them may have a major skill imbalance. Some people are playing with eight other people and between the eight of them have a major skill imbalance. Some people are playing with three other roughly equally skilled people but one guy made poor decisions in his initial list build when they didn't know the rules well yet. And that's not to mention which armies may or may not be represented in said groups.

>>52801279
Preorder for the printed book starts on the 22nd, and carries on about a week into May so soon-ish?

>>52801337
I hope the rules in the book include more options, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up.

>>52800616
Yes. The rulebook is poorly written, often implying things without outright stating them, or stating them in a roundabout way without clear examples. Like a math professor who can't remember what's it like to not understand math.

The (nonexistent) section explaining how pistols in melee work, for example.

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>>52801376

I doubt it, the idea (And one that isn't really a bad thing) seems to have been 'You can play with a single box of models' rather than it being mostly for people with a heap of other existing models. Which is good for getting new players into 40k.

It does, however, mean that options are lower than they could be.

>>52801436
It just seems dumb, because now I can only buy specific boxes. I would have legit bought a couple of boxes to start a Dark Eldar team, but Wyches are my least favourite unit.

>>52801554

>It just seems dumb, because now I can only buy specific boxes. I would have legit bought a couple of boxes to start a Dark Eldar team, but Wyches are my least favourite unit.

I think a lot of it is well...they down't want someone who's never played 40k before to have to invest too much money in it. Keeping start up costs low to broaden appeal.

Not all armies line up with that though, as Necrons simply couldn't make a full force out of one box.

>>52801567
I think the idea of one box of miniatures and one rulebook and now you're a wargamer is a strong approach, and one GW should embrace. I just think they should expand the rules so anyone can walk into a store, pick a box they like the look of, get the rules and play. Right now you can only do this with select boxes.

>>52801436
>the idea (And one that isn't really a bad thing) seems to have been 'You can play with a single box of models'

Not that anon, and I get this, but they did such a shit job it's staggering.

Necrons don't get scarabs, despite desperately needing some variety. The boxes chosen or not chosen don't make any sense - Tyranid Warriors, but not Kroot? They didn't do anywhere near as much as they could have with non-modeled upgrades to compensate.

>>52801063
Oh, that's a thing of beauty, it is. Hopefully whoever makes the next thread notices this and puts it in the OP.

>>52801554
You would. Because you already play their games. You're already "reeled in". What >>52801436
pointed out, which is in fact an important thing for the hobby in the long run is that the game in part is designed to get people who don't already play into the gw hobby.

>>52801622
Exactly. I hope GW sees that there is a both a real market and an entry point into their main products here, if they can be bothered to write up the rules.

>>52801644
To be honest, I haven't bought a GW product in nearly a decade and SWA is bringing my back. I going to the FLGS to play my first game in over 4 years. Feels good man.

I've been bitching for years that scale creep has been killing 40k, and if GW is even looking at turning the ship around I want to support that.

>>52801622

I think they went with 'Have a force for each army' over 'Represent every single box'. They might expand more in the future.

Tau got pathfinders rather than Kroot as they are (A little) more versatile a force.

>>52801436
Yeah, this is what putting me off switching from Heralds of Ruin to SWAG.

It's pretty obvious the extra kill teams were just whatever the studio guys wanted to run in their campaign.

I'd love if they did a proper expansion book with fixed lists.

I'm trying to make a GSC but make them look interesting, so far all I've got is a head swap.
I'm trying to focus more on heavily on the mining aspect but Im kinda stumped on how I can convert them into something more individual.

>>52801123
The really fucked up part about tyranid warriors having 4 arms but getting no benefit from it at all is that there are already rules for models with extra arms.

If you have an extra arm and use it to hold a third weapon you get +2 attack dice instead of +1. Or you can use it to hold a basic weapon at the same time as two hand-to-hand weapons and keep the +1 for having 2 hand-to-hand weapons.

A tyranid warrior with 4 arms which are each holding either a lashwhip or bonesword should subsequently get +3 attack dice and one with 2 boneswords and a gun should get +1.

But they fucking don't because GW are incompetent.

>>52801709
I would love to play HoR but noone around here wants to.

>>52801710
I'm hoping the unexpected hype will get them to really invest in the game.

>>52801698
Holy shit. You sound exactly like me. I've boycotted gw for decades because of their politics, and I dislike scale creep even though I'm a painter first and gamer second.

>>52801730
>If you have an extra arm and use it to hold a third weapon you get +2 attack dice instead of +1

Where in the rulebook do you find this?

>>52801820
Oh sorry I forgot to say. It's a necromunda rule.

>>52801801
Scale creep is shit for painters too bro. I don't want to paint 40 identical troopers, but I'll paint 8 slightly customized troopers with all the love I have.

>>52801911
mutieladz

>>52801436
i've gotten like 3 of my fantasy mates into buying 40k because of this game

>>52800739
The rules are more uniform across the factions and there's less models to move around so games go faster.

7th edition is simply roll to hit, roll to wound, roll saves though so maybe this is a bit harder.

I'ma leave this HQ scan link hrrrrrr

https://mega.nz/#!tPBg0QQT!jo6mhnTh4SR4A-lOLYs-74Cd7gmbO5VVxZTefLS7WtI

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>>52799918
I've played ~6 games against Skitarii as Guard, but haven't faced GSC.

Facing Skitarii you will either stomp them or they will stomp you. It's often about who can get into the ideal position first. The Skitarii sniper is just flat out better than the Guard one, but it's expensive and Skittles players like to spend a lot of points in one basket with them. Their regular guns also tend to be better and render your armor almost worthless.

Guard overall aren't horrible, but they definitely aren't great. They are, however, super fun!

>>52799772
You forgot one link.
http://minibattlebitz.com/blog/

>>52802352
You're late. >>52801063

>>52801714
Use chaos cultist model bits.

>>52802563

That's sort of what I expected, although I'd imagine guard have a slight advantage on the campaign scale of things, since they can replenish lost troops etc. for far less cost.

>>52802563
>The Skitarii sniper is just flat out better than the Guard one
well yeah it also costs a shitton of oilbucks to get one
it's like saying the lascannon is just straight up better then a lasgun
it costs about 6.5 times as much , doesn't have a silencer which leaves him open to retaliation 100% of the time as opposed to 50% of the time
it's main advantage over the guard one stems from being able to take a photo visor but the trade of is you spend a hell of a lot more than you would on a guardsman with a sniper

>>52800551
>Dude, they look like Tau visually. That's all I was basing that on. I know they don't play like them.
GIGANTIC CONICAL HEADS.
STRANGE LIMBS
NON CLOVEN FEET
MELEE UNITS
DARK VERSIONS OF THEMSELVES
I don't want to hit a guy when he's down but come now anon

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>>52802707
>well yeah it also costs a shitton of oilbucks to get one

Which is why I put

> ...it's expensive and Skittles players like to spend a lot of points in one basket with them.

>>52802668
Guard are pretty good in that respect. The only army that I hate playing against with them is Harlequins, which are just flat out overtuned. Facing them it's basically just hoping you get REALLY good rolls or take minimal losses before the loss.

>>52802615
>Including a blog in the OP.
Are we on Tumblr?

>>52800551
>Dude, they look like Tau visually. That's all I was basing that on. I know they don't play like them.
Blue skin, THEY ARE TAU GUYS! Even though it's all magic, teleporting and organic shapes.

How can you live with being this much of a pleb?

>>52802865
And it's not even an official one. It's just some random site that's complaining about the game.

>>52802889
it doesn't sell anything relevant either. It's just shitty webshop with a blog attached to it which complains about shipments. Like why the fuck should it be included in the OP? OPs are for resources, not for >>52802615 shitty webshop.

>>52802909
What's funny is they're complaining about shipments when the third party sellers got PREFERENTIAL treatment when it comes to selling the game. They could order as many as they want while official stores got the leavings.

I will agree that GW messed up majorly with the game's sales setup, I can't see any reason why it deserves a spot in the OP.

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Update on the Fire Warrior team.
I picked Mu'Gulath Bay sept because they have hive world experience and I liked the color.

Still have 5 MORE to paint not including the Etherial.

>>52803003
And then they were all blended by clowns in your first game.

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>>52802735
You really don't see any resemblance? Do you honestly think they look more like eldar visually?

>>52802885
How can you live with getting so wound up because someone said Tau and Protoss look similar?

>>52803082
>Not acting with extreme prejudice against plebs

Anon, where the hell do you think you are?

>>52803051
Tau look less similar to protos than they do to humans. The only major similarity is that they are wrinkly and don't have noses.

And I don't think that was the point he was making either. The general aesthetic of protos equipment and technology is entirely dissimilar to that of the Tau.

>>52803033
Lets see the batrep then.

>>52803112
I know where I am. That doesn't mean I can't think it's ridiculous to get your underwear in a knot over a fucking irrelevant comparison because "40k in mah heart 4ever" nerd rage. The point of my original comment was to point out that starting today you can get the game and expansion for free. But some muppet just had to go apeshit over the fact that they're not similar at all if you look closely. Spare me your elitist "I know more about plastic soldiers than you" bullshit. Thank you.

>>52803154
That was a hypothetical, anon.

>>52803145
I never said anything else. I called Terran Space Marines, Zerg Tyranids, and Protoss Tau, got called a pleb, explained that I meant they (Protoss and Tau) look similar, not that they are similar. Then this nerd rage shitshow started.

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>>52803204
>>52803177
>being upset about being called a retard on 4chan.

>>52803204
What you said was dumb and now the conversation is dumb. You did this.

>>52803236
Do I seem upset? I'm just slightly annoyed at having to recap the conversation for several people who are too wound up to scroll up.

>>52803240
I.. I'm sorry. I'll go stand in the shame corner now.

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>>52803051
>You really don't see any resemblance? Do you honestly think they look more like eldar visually?
Yeah i really don't, see any beyond, blue skin and not being able to smell their own farts.
Tau faces are literally flat human faces with a grafted vagina in the center of their heads.
anyway if you pull back that protoss head on the left, it xenomorphs out. Coming to resemble the battle helm of the eldar though honestly they remind me a lot of the mudokon, with skin tone, number of digits on each limb, big cone heads and scrunched up face.
also the protess appear far more dexterous than the cloven footed tau but that's far from the point.

Tau equipment is blockier, more modern, more WEEB. while protoss maintain a mix of organic looking curves and forms along with mystical design underlining it.
their personal Armour is form fitting and dexterous and while everything is blizzardized it's got a more organic and alien look to it over all.


>>52803204
look man i was trying to give you a far shake, ain't going to kick hard.

>all weapons ads divided into one of the following broad categories
>except tyranid weapons, because like morons we used lore terms to describe their weapon categories instead of the actual terms used in the rules so there's no restriction on non-specialists buying bio-cannons

Just played my first game, managed to beat Harlies with my Dire Avengers. Got some skillups and I have 200 points to spend. I even had fun.

>>52802563
What do you do if they mass overwatch across the map in heavy cover out of your range and you have to go across open ground to get in range of them with most of your guys.

>>52803342

Buy some more god damned terrain.

I just finished with the Mantic industrial battlezone stuff I bought and am now starting on a GW Imperial Sector + extra Manufactorum box.

>>52801730
Using old necromunda rules in SW:A
>There really are morons posting here.

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>>52803342
i suggest running
> and you have to go across open ground to get in range of them with most of your guys.
you fucked up your table, you aren't doing it right.
there should never, ever be a corridor that can allows you to see from one table edge to the other.

>>52803373
Did you actually read what you responded to?

>>52803409
No man, i deliberatly skipped your last line of text so I could call you a moron in good faith.

>>52803326
>bio-cannons aren't either special or heavy weapons so anyone can use them

Wonderfuk, you can swap weapons between models freely during rearing so even if you can't buy Bio-cannons for anything but Gun-Beasts there's nothing to prevent you just trading their guns to whoever.

>>52803457
My phone is the reason I made this many typos.

I think it's fair to say at this point that tyranids are the most fucked up kill team.

>>52803479
It leads to some proper wonderfuk spelling mistakes.

>>52803457
>Wonderfuk
I'm gonna use that from now on to signify just such a situation.

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>>52803510
No, that title belongs to the clowns and their clown-fiesta.

>>52801123
Now I don't want to call you dumb, but the only thing stopping a warrior from having 3 pairs of arms is imagination, some bits and some glue.
>The is not a single rule stating that Warriors can not have 3+ pairs of arms.

>>52803538
I at least think clowns are like that on purpose.

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>>52803567
Everything that is semi-immune to pinning is pretty fucked up.
At least tyranids doesn't get free climbing without penalities, factionwide harder to hit buffs, factionwide 4++ save, factionwide fear and weapons that automatically wound on 2+ or/and ignore enemy armor.

>>52803591
This is more of a balance issue than the tyranid "these rules are nonsensical" problem.

>>52803605
Oh yeah, you're right on the money there.
A passive that only effect people with 3 pair of arms, no rules clarifying how many arms a bio-engineered beast can have maximum.

Doesn't help with the syntax of the paired weapons either.
If boneswordCount =1; parryCount=1; elseIf boneswordCount =2; parryCount=2; else parryCount=0

"But more boneswords gives you more parries, right?"
>Only GW truly knows.

>>52803591

Even outside of balance. Like lets assume they are perfectly well priced for the shit they get.

They are just not a fun warband to play against as they are either overwhelmingly good or ignore large parts of the game.

>Terrain making it hard to move about rapidly? Fuck you, Magnets. Entire army can run up walls.
>Pinning on a hit even if you survive? Fuck you, Miracles. They are immune to most pinning.
>Armour penetrating armour? Clowns give not a fuck, they just dodged it.
>Melee? Basic clown troops will kick the shit out of even Grey Knights, the other elite army and are super fast to let them be the one to pick the charges. Let alone if Violent J gets into the fight.

They just play WAY too different a game to every other army and have way too much stuff baked into it rather than being optional gear.

That, more than balance concerns, is my issue with fighting Insane Clown Posse. They redefine the game more than even Grey Knights or Nids.

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>>52803673
>worship the glorious 4-armed emperor
>4arms does nothing

That old two-armed chump gets all da luck I tells ya.

>>52803715
Not single arms, PAIRS.

>>52803715
>there are multiple kill teams that have more than two arms and in regular 40k use a weapon with each hand
>no rules for multiple arms at all

>>52803741

The funny thing? They could have USED an existing rule in the book for it.

Extra Weapon. The thing Servo Arms have. You get an extra attack die but only a single hit can come from an Extra Weapon.

>>52803376
Yeah running doesn't work when they hit you so easily. I'd want to hide and sneak closer but with open terrain and not enough in the way of LOS blocking that's not possible haha.

Hopefully we'll be on better maps in the future, perhaps when I make my own terrain.

Would love to see everyone else's terrain setups. I'd appreciate it if people posted pictures of their maps.

>>52803741
>>52803759

GW probably just figured this would be a one-shot Scouts versus Boyz minigame and be done with it.
That's why the core rules don't include any speck of psychic powers or extra concepts, but they do include a game mode that is contingent on if Orks are fighting..

>>52803708
Holy shit. The way to ultimate salt. Time to hate myself and paint a ICP themed harlie band

>>52803795
If that was their plan they wouldn't have prepped the PDF factions at all.

>>52803828

Eh, the ICP stuff was mostly trying to take some of the sting out of it.

I don't hate Harlie's. I just think they were a poor choice for a warband in the same was that Chaos Daemons would be.

>>52803834
They sniffed money when they were surprised that people actually wanted to play this.

>>52803848
Im speaking mostly in mind of my LGS. I can see a army themed like that provoking much autist rage

>>52803828
Just don't get salty yourself when luck flips you off, remember, it's 125+ point for 1w t3.

>>52803834
>prepped
It's literally "Hey James what troop kits do we have in plastic?"

>>52803867

And in that case, yeah. Go for it. Sounds hilarious.

>>52803457
A tyranid warrior with hip shooting can run and fire it's bio-cannon.

>>52803894
A bio-cannon doesn't prevent you from getting +1 attack dice if you have two hand-to-hand weapons since it is not a basic, special or heavy weapon.

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>>52803342
If the enemy can overwatch and cover most of the map it means you either don't have enough terrain or the terrain was set up wrong.

Make sure there are no high places in either spawn. I've run into that issue before and it pretty much guarantees whoever gets that side the win. Also, both sides should have about the same amount of access routes and paths. (Depending on how you choose to put terrain down.)

>>52803326
Tyranid Warriors that aren't Gun-Beasts don't have the options to purchase bio-cannons though?

>>52804105
Right, but you can exchange weapons between models when you rearm with the restriction that models can only be given weapons they can use. There's nothing stopping you buying a bio-cannon on a gun-beast and then giving it to a different warrior later on.

>>52804030
yep
when i was playing infinity the general conssense was the big pieces go in the center.

set up a second line of buildings before the deployment zone covering the alleyways that would allow sight of the deployment zone and then give a bit of cover to the deployment just in case.

This again isn't fun when people can't get arround a choke hold.
Running New recuits is still a solid choice, -2 to be hit for overwatch and running. and they are expendable

>>52804126
Normally you would be prevented from doing this by the restriction on Special and Heavy weapons only being usable by specialists.

>>52804126
The way I just read it (because i want flamer cultists) is that you can't re-equip a weapon onto a model that could not take it in the first place.

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>>52804232
>>52804126

Found the text

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>>52804164
Mhmm! Get a few recruits with grenades and you have a relatively cheap body that is great for pinning.

>>52804232
Cultists can't have flamers because non-specialist fighters can't use special weapons.

Bio-cannons have no rules or restrictions associated with them at all because GW had to be faggots and not put them in any actual category, so presumably any model can use them.

>>52804328
That's true.
If you look at things like Necrons you can see that their profile is rife with asterisks and explanations that certain weapons can only be used with certain models.

Also in the model profile it is listed which model can take what.

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>>52804365
>>52804328
What the FUCK are you clowns on about?
It's stated clearly in the Tyranid Gunbeast's profile that he can use Bio-cannons.

This statement is not present in ANY of the other profiles.
>If the model's profile doesn't explicitly say you can take anything, you can't take it.

>Necrons can't use grenades because nowhere in any of the profiles is it stated that they can do so.

>>52804328
With special weapons and heavy weapons it is stated in the entry for them that they can only be carried by specialists and logically this *should* also apply to bio-cannons, but it isn't made clear anywhere if you're actually supposed to treat bio-cannons as either of those weapon types and the term bio-cannon isn't referenced by the rules at all so it's anyone's guess as to what they're meant to be treated as.

But technically speaking an argument can be made that no restrictions of any kind, nor rules that apply to specific weapons types apply to them at all, since they're a completely unique class of weapon.

>>52804419
see
>>52804413

If a model's profile does not state; This unit can take X, then the model can in fact NOT take X.

>We call that a restriction.

>>52804413
That's not the point anon, the point is that EVERY tyranid warrior can use a bio-cannon, even though they can only be bought through a gun-beast.

>>52804413
>If the model's profile doesn't explicitly say you can take anything, you can't take it.
Incorrect.

A model can't take a weapon that isn't in its factions weapon list. That's why necrons can't use grenades.

>>52804482
[Citation needed]

>>52804459
No.
A model can only use equipment listed in their profile.

>>52803311
Fair enough. Although maybe not completely fair to compare helmeted and unhelmeted. The rest of the style I agree is more eldar, but what I meant, although I wasn't completely clear, in my original comparison was the look of their faces. And in that regard tau and Protoss are more similar than eldar and either of the other two. Perhaps it wasn't the best of comparisons. Not that it was very relevant to my original post. :)

>>52804541
The rule book. Models are armed with weapons from the relevant weapon lists for their faction, which for necrons does not include grenades.

>>52804588
And where in the book does it state that a model can arm themselves with equipment outside their wargear profile?

>>52804555
That's an assumption not stated anywhere at all in the rules. The creating a kill team rules state what a model comes with and can buy, it does not say what they can and can't use.

It is, however repeatedly stated that only specialists can use special and heavy weapons .

>>52804667
Then it is also an assumption on your part that you can use weapons outside the models' wargear profile as that too is not stated explicitly anywhere in the rules.

>>52804612
On page 100.

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>>52804562
> in my original comparison was the look of their faces. And in that regard tau and Protoss are more similar than eldar and either of the other two
and like i said before, the similarities are superfluous and small. They've got no nose and blue skin.
Protoss shit is angular, like it's being pulled back but this has carried on quite long enough
>Not that it was very relevant to my original post. :)
trust me, you don't want to bring up starcraft.
personally I dislike it and generally wish it to die a painful company rending death for what it has done to gaming and the RTS market.

In fact i do hope blizzard suffers for inadvertently creating the moba.
and proving a big company can get away with always on DRM, proving we no longer own out games just borrow it until it is unprofitable

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>>52804712
No, it says they are subject to normal restrictions.

Normal restrictions do not allow you to take other factions gear.

This is why people carry metal dreadnaughts. To beat people like that to death with.

>>52804811
Being that you must represent the weapon on the model and that certain models can't use certain weapons (specialists are the only models which can use special or heavy weapons and models may only have weapons in their faction weapon list). There are no other stated restrictions on what a model can or can't use.

>>52804811
The profiles list things that models can be armed with. They don't explicitly prohibit things not in that list.

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>>52804896
Jesus fucking Christ

>>52804896
And 40k is a permissive ruleset. You can do something if it explicitly states. You cancerous autist.

>>52804963
It's not explicitly forbidden to refuse plaing with autists.

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>>52804896
the fuck are you trying to say here.
half way through the line they say
you are restricted to weapons available to your faction.
Also fighters may be restricted to different types of weapons

>>52805021
True enough. Thank fuck i have a decent local meta

>>52803795
That is just fabrication on your part. I spoke to two gw employees about the game several weeks prior to its release and they made it clear that future support for the game depended on the reception by the community.

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>>52804896
>>52805027
I should add, the RaW isn't like girlymann becoming a superheavy walker.
this is pretty clearly not an oversight and it takes creative interpretations to allow a trooper to dip from out it's pool

>>52804896
Yes. The wargear list is just simply a suggestion.

>>52804963
That's not at all relevant since in this case you have permission to freely exchange equipment between models adherent to the restriction that certain types of fighters can use certain weapons.

It isn't any more specific than that.

>>52804896
What >>52804963 posted. The game does not mention "can not" because it's restricted by default. What it does is tell you can you CAN take. If it doesn't specifically tell you that you CAN take 'X' weapon/equipment, then you can't. It specifies the faction list for a reason, and it's also why every troop selection has "From the X faction weapon list." Because that is what you're restricted to.

>>52805081
None of this matters, because Tyrannids don't swap weapons around. They re-equip by replacing, they don't give weapons around.

>>52805104
That rule is really strangely worded. Like there's a paragraph somewhere else that's missing.

>>52801123
>>52800213
>>52800183


Not the anon from last thread, bit remember that getting 3 ccw on any warrior is not impossible, or even difficult.

You gain a bonus attack for having 2 ccw, and as a warrior, gain an additional attack of you have 3 or more ccw and a melee weapon in each arm.

Normally this applies to the ravenor's 3 pairs of scything talons (and also to the +2 WS stipulation in the scything talons rules), but normal warriors can get 3 weapons as well.

The warrior will need a lashwhip and boneswords, and any other pair of ccw. The lashwhip and bonesword have different profiles and entries, and so are separate melee weapons.

Scything talons: 1, lashwhip: 2, bonesword: 3 weapons, and all arms have melee weapons. Attacks are cycled through all 3 as the rules state for warriors.

I agree with not allowing to give warriors a 3rd pair of arms just because it's possible RAW. its like giving a specialist 2 weapons. They technically can have both, but can only shoot one, and good luck modeling your arquebus sniper with a plasma caliver strapped to his back.
There you go.

>>52805160
>>52805104
I guess it's supposed to totally replace the normal resupply rules? it doesn't say that it does that, but it's worded like that was probably the intent.

>>52805194
Pairs of arms, anon, pairs of arms.

>>52805194
You do not gain a bonus for having a third hand-to-hand weapon unless you have more than two pairs of arms.

>>52805197
This one's a doozy.

If it was really intended to replace the entire resupply phase section it fails because it doesn't include rules for anything but replacing weapons, so tyranids can't recruit at all, don't replace leaders, can't spend promethium caches, etc?

So it can't be that, so I guess it's like an addendum? But all it says is they replace their weapons with other weapons rather than adding new ones.

>>52805395
It's probably to prevent the aforementioned attempts to buy extra sets of arms.

>>52805766
Whoops! Meant to post that elsewhere!

>>52805426
It's never even stated in the rules that warriors have two pairs of arms to begin with.

For all intents and purposes related to rules a tyranid warrior only has two arms. A "pair of" scything talons or rending claws is just a single weapon held in one hand, a pair of boneswords or lash whip and bone sword are two weapons, one held in each hand.

>>52805863
It IS stated that you can carry more equipment than you can wield; example; 2 pistols, 1 knife and a basic gun.

So why should a tyranid not be allowed to carry additional equipment?

If 3 pairs of boneswords, he only uses 2 of them in the actual combat; but the third one will still give him an attack bonus per the Tyranid Passive effect.

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>>52800601
This is fake news

>>52805983
The first line of the rule says you need more 2 pairs of arms to get the bonus. The warrior would not only need 6 boneswords, but 6 hands to told them with.

And there's nothing saying a tyranid warrior has any more arms than a guardsman.

There's not even anything saying the Ravener has more than 2 arms.

>>52806117
It's not fake wtf you talking about? I just downloaded it from the link you muppet.

>>52806356
The way tyranid weapons and limbs have been handled just seems like a huge heap of rules oversights. Like they tried to adapt the current system of paired weapons to necromunda when they really shouldn't have and also did a really half assed job of it too.

>>52806356
>Brb glueing more arms to my guardsmen.

>>52806466
My ultimate conclusion is that either a fighter has however many arms it's modeled with, or every fighter has only two arms regardless of how many the model has.

And that's terrible.

>>52806505
I think that a fighter is supposed to get bonus attack dice for each wielded cc weapon after the first, so as to give those with more arms the upper hand in cc. I also think that you're meant to get one parry for each weapon with the parry ability. But we'll see. The FAQ will probably be out soon, or even integrated into the new rulebook.

>>52807515
I think that too, since that is what happens in necromunda for mutants with extra arms. But the SW:A rules don't actually support that at all and don't even say which models have extra arms.

>>52807552
>>52807515
It reminds me of fanatic necromunda where they forgot to print the rule for people being set on fire anywhere in the rulebook but repeatedly referred to it.

>>52806388
>not getting the joke this hard

>>52807625
Jokes are supposed to be funny tho.

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Can a Purestrain Genestealer fuck up a Terminators day as badly as the fluff?

>>52807738
Terminators aren't very good at CC.

>>52807738
Why does the genestealer holding back the terminator's arm only have two arms?

>>52807764
Not even with lightning claws?

Necromunda: A Play in One Scene
by Anon

[opens on Mr. Roundtree's office]
[a knock comes from the door and Roundtree invites them in]
[enter Jenkins]

Jenkins: Sir, the beta test for 8e sold out instantly.

Roundtree: What?? But it's just a beta that was basically a clone of a game that we stopped making 20 years ago, that's had a cult following this whole time, that people have been begging for a re-release of. AND IT'S SOLD OUT??

Jenkins: Uh, yes, sir.

Roundtree: We need to sell more! Quick! What kind of blisters do we want to move?

Jenkins: All of them?

Roundtree: Yes! I want a pdf of new factions on my desk by tomorrow morning, Jenkins.

Jenkins: Sir, that's not enough time to playtest. And once they're released, we won't have the manpower to fix the rules because our hands will be full with 8e codexes and stuff. I mean, we even explicitly refer to one side as orcs in a mission in the core rulebook...

Roundtree: DO IT, JENKINS, OR I'LL FIND SOMEONE ELSE WHO WILL

[fade out]

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>>52807843

>>52807780
I count 3 visible the bottom left i'm assuming is behind the back

>>52807780
Take a closer look, anon. It has at least three.

>>52807780
there are 3 clearly visible

>>52807843
>>52807875
>thinks a copy of a skirmish game from the 90s is a beta test for 8th edition

>>52807843
3/10

>>52807738
>>52807764
That doesn't quite answer my question.

Basically mechanically, gamewise...does my spec ops Genestealer have a good chance of closing the gap and taking out his terminator to get me that sweet bounty??

>>52807892
>>52807893
>>52807899
Oh now I see it. I am on the phone and didn't zoom in enough

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>>52807928
>This youngblood that didn't even play 40k 2nd edition

>>52807928
In a way it is, it has been confirmed that 8th will have movement values now and also that Armor Save modifiers are returning. We all know assault won't be the same, it would make 2,000pt games impossibly long but this is a way for GW to "beta test" "some" of their 8th edition rules.

>>52807951
If your table has enough terrain and you use it right and play tactically, yes. Not taking into consideration unlucky die rolls.

>>52807976
I am 39.

>>52807990
Still though, they didn't have to make a new game to test that. That doesn't even make sense.

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My WIP yoofs, I'm still adding stuff (customisation)

I don't like the concept of Orks having "Red dot sights" - So my Yoofs have their barrel mounted iron sights as their counts as.

>I am still assembling
>I still have mold lines to remove
>I still have Barrels to drill

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>>52808030
>I am 39
...
>This old motherfucker that didn't even play 2nd edition

>>52808043
Nice. Like the backpacks. Makes them look like orkperators. :) True commandos.

>>52808072
2nd ed of what? Their series of skirmish games or 40k? Not even sure what the hell you're on about.

>>52808043
>yoof wit gunz
>yoof wit gunz
>taking ovva it won't be long
>They'ze mesmerized
>Skeletons
>yoofs with guns
>yoofs with guns

>>52807991
thanks!

>>52808043
You should convert the shootas into having a red marker pen or a lipstick ducttaped to the muzzle like a bayonet. Then they can run up to enemies and stab them with it, then back up again and shoot the red dot.

>>52808030
>Still though, they didn't have to make a new game to test that. That doesn't even make sense.
Dude, are you even listening? They didn't make a new game. They already HAVE a game in 8e (which was throwing back to a lot of 2e rules). They package a bunch of shit they already have, tie it in with a cult product, and test the waters for THE BIG RELEASE of 8e.

*They get feedback on the core elements of the new system (cover gives penalties to hit? What year is it???)
*They create a lower cost, easy entry game that can get new people onto 40k proper
*They move copies just because people already love Necromunda
*They generate hype for 8e

How is this difficult to understand?

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>>52806356
Yes. But thing is a tyranid treats their arms as a weapon. A guardsman can actually sport 4 lasguns and 5 knifes on a single model and you still wouldn't say; "But a guardsman doesn't have 13 arms!"
>That's right. You can bring more equipment than you can use in a single combat, on a model. You have to choose what equipment you want to use in every singlel CC out of the equipment the model has on his person.

>Tyranids can do this too.
Hence the "more than 2 pairs of weapons." on his person.
>Yes a regular guardsman doesn't have 4 lasguns in his base kit and a Warrior only have 4 arms.
>You can actually change that by kitbashing.
>It is legal and encouraged to glue plasmapistols, lasguns and grenades onto a standard guardsman model if you want him to actually bring that to the fight.
>Simply apply that logic to tyranids.
>Yes 6 arms.

>>52808030
Well yes, I highly doubt this game was specifically made as an 8th beta test but it does conveniently work out as a way to gage fans reactions to some of the rule changes in 8th. From what I gather it's mostly positive...I don't know how I feel about the codex dumping for warscrolls but we'll see what actually happens.

>>52808043
I'm going to attach laspistols to the front of my Ork Shootas and make it look like they're lashed on for my red dot sights.

>>52808164
While that's not a beta test per se I agree with your bullet points for motivation.

Per the Boneswords, how by the rules can you even buy more than a single pair? You can only have ONE weapon from Basic or Hand-to-Hand, so you can't buy two pairs of Boneswords per the rules. You can have 2 Boneswords and 2 scything talons. Every other army's listing allows for items from their lists, Tyranid warriors can ONLY buy one.

>>52808193
Agreed.

>>52808114
>2nd ed of what?
Of 40k. Necromunda was just 40k rules tweaked for a skirmish ruleset.

8e is looking back to 2e.
>cover saves are gone. now it's to-hit penalties again
>units have movement rates again
>armor save modifiers are back
>other shit i can't remember off-hand

>>52808197
greatness!

>>52807951
A purestrain genestealer charges 18" and can't be pinned except by S7+ weapons. You can't stop that fucker.

>>52808193
Warscrolls were one of the few things agreed it was good on AOS.

>>52808233
Looks like you found the missing link, sir.

I applaud your keen eyesight.

That also explains why they come in pairs.

>>52808193
>.I don't know how I feel about the codex dumping for warscrolls but we'll see what actually happens.
I'd predict that they'll release codexes after the fact.

Similar to how 3rd edition totally invalidated all 2nd edition codexes, but the rulebook contained army lists, or how AoS later released battletomes.

That part will be fine, it's shitty core rules that may be an issue.

>>52808250
Yeah no, I didn't play 2nd ed 40k. What about it?

Yeah, except then I saw they can buy them in the resupply. >_< (That's what I get for only skimming a list I don't plan on using). So they can get them, but they're paying 1 promethium to get 1 pair... So it is possible, and thus causes the issues...It's not even that hard of a complication to notice.

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>>52808294
How so?
Never played AoS so I'm honestly just curious what's the benefit. I'll be willing to let my codex go if it's beneficial.

>>52808348
Responding to this anon:
>thinks a copy of a skirmish game from the 90s is a beta test for 8th edition
Let me lay it out...
1. 8e is drawing heavily from 2e
2. Necromunda was based on 2e
3. GW re-releases Necromunda immediately before 8e is to come out

That's how SWA can be a public test region for 8e AND ALSO based on a 2e spinoff skirmish game.

>>52808374
Easy bite size rule access for new people. Now the AoS goal was to get new people in so it was good at that. Considering that 40k has the rule clusterfuck problem right now, it might be an approach worth looking into.

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>>52808551
hmmm, ok

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>>52808374
>>52808551
So like these?

40k Age of Sigmar Warscroll Compendiums

http://hivefleetcharybdis.blogspot.com/2016/03/age-of-sigmar-40k-space-marine.html?m=1

>>52808233
>>52808305
Look at the warrior resupplying rules. It specifically says you can replace any of their weapons when resupplying, and then even gives an example of them doing so to remove the mandatory starting talons.

>>52808444
It doesn't make sense to release a game to test rules that have been in existence before though. Testing how people like them, sure, but not testing the rules themselves.

>>52808718
Hm, then we wait for the upcoming FAQ I guess.

Yeah, noticed that right after I posted. Well, going for boys before toys, shouldn't come up for a few games, by which time your group can figure out how they want to run it?
And that's a LOT of points to invest in a single model rather than buy another warrior or improve more than one model.

>>52808284

He's also got 4 attacks and rerolls failed wounds. Off the top of my head he still only gets a -3 to the save though. So you need to wound the terminator at least two or three times to stand a chance of taking a terminator out.

>>52808444
>1. 8e is drawing heavily from 2e
Evidenced in... save reduction?

That's the only confirmed mechanic in 8th, and it's not even put into numerals just as "something cool that'll come back in some form"

>>52799772
Will Cult Mechanicus get rules?

>>52808980
movement values are also confirmed

>>52809005
why?

>>52809016
Wake me up when they dump screenshots of vehicle turning angle template with percentile movement allotment decreases, hell I'll take partial hits for blasts, or even cover as hit-penalty.

Until then, Hogwash.

>>52807951
The Purebreed genestealer has 4 attacks and WS 6, -3 AP and S4 rerolls wounding.

A terminator will have to roll 1-5 on 2d6 to actually take a wound. As the dreadnaught armor absorb it on a 6-12.
Roughly 40% chance of wounding.

The amount of hits you get is based on how much you beat the terimie.

A termie is WS 4 and 2 attacks.

Assuming you get a charge (18''), the termie rolls a 3 with his 2 attacks and you roll a 4 with your 4 attack to simplify it.

His WS would be 7 and the Genestealr would be 11 and you'd get 4 hits. (This will swing wildly so take this as a median.)

With S4 vs T4 you wound on a 4+, but with rerolls, that is a generally 2-3 wounds.

The termia armor will soak generally 2 out of the 3 wounds if you roll averagely.
But the termie only have 1 wound so that's enough to put them on the ground.

>In conclusion, a Purebreed Genestealer can indeed rip a Termie to shreds in close combat.
>But the termie can also shoot the genesteler to shit with overwatch.

>>52809005
I wouldn't think so, firstly you have skitarii kill team (and we all know that fact that AdMech has two codices is shameless moneygrab, even more with Grand Convocation),
secondly: what in that codex would fit in here? Maybe the priests as specialists, but no-one even has those models.

>>52809200
If nobody buys the priest models, then it sounds like a really GOOD reason for GW to give them rules. :^)
I'd buy the models in a heartbeat,
i really like mechanicus better than Skitarii.

>>52809161
So Space Hulk balancing.

Are shotguns worth taking on guard vets? Worse range, -1 to hit, higher ammo and no hotshot upgrade is a rough trade for a cover ignoring small blast.

>>52809366

Hotshot Lasguns are 20pts more than Shotguns, that's the main advantage.

>>52809298
Not quite so favorable for the stealer in close combat but pretty similar.

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Whats the best IG special operative to send in a rescue mission to save a really, really fucking valuable guardsmen that got captured like an idiot?

>>52806388
Your statement is something CNN calls "alternate fact"

>>52810489
Commisar if getting the objective done is more valuable than safety

>>52810489
I'd agree with >>52810994 if the guardsmen is supremely valuable. If not maybe try an Ogryn with the slab shield to make the approach a bit safer.

Does this look like a fun/efficient list? (Also, is there a proper army builder yet, or am I best off sticking with excel?)

Syren with splinter pistol and chainhook - 180
Wych with chainhook & venom - 100
Wych with chainhook - 90
Wych x4 - 80 x 4 = 320
Debutante x 3 - 70 x 3 = 210
Bloodbride - 100

Total - 1000

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Since we're starting a new campaign at my FLGS, I thought I'd have some fun by playing an army I've never tried before, so I picked Genestealer Cults.
How's this for a starter list?

Genestealer Cult kill team
Neophyte Leader
Web Pistol
Power Pick
245 Points
Neophyte Hybrid
Autogun
80 points
Neophyte Hybrid
Autogun
80 points
Neophyte Hybrid
Autogun
80 points
Neophyte Hybrid
Autogun
80 points
Neophyte Hybrid
Autogun
80 points
Neophyte Hybrid
Autogun
80 points
Neophyte Heavy
Mining Laser
270 points
995 points total

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>>52811970
there's a battlescribe file floating on the web.

>>52811110
>>52810994
I just realized that for the 15PC last game to win it guy, guard with the commissar is the worst nightmare matchup.

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>>52799893

We know that preorders for the compiled rulebook go up tomorrow, but will the inquisition and SoB lists be online then, or when the book comes out?

Holy fuck Nids are powerful in this game, I had my squad of 12 boyz all get downed by the fucks, I did 2 wounds in total

So, how are people modelling yoofs/recruits with no upgrades? I was gonna use the shitty push-togethers, but they come with sluggas, so...

>>52814043
I don't think people are autistic enough to care. Just equip them as you think they WILL be

>>52814043
I've actually bumped all my guys up a notch
Nob leader - Warboss model
Boyz - Nobz
Yoofs - Boyz
It's easier for me to keep track

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>>52814043


I want looted stuff...looted camo gear...looted hot shot packs....looted everything!!!!

>>52814393
>>52814393
>>52814393
New shit edition

>>52812148
You can't use spec ops in your last winning match tho. You need to have 15 pc and then win. If you hire a special operative you only have 14. Unless you have 16 caches or more.

>>52814511
I mean for the opponent.

the 15PC guy has to fight a guardsmen army that will NEVER retreat and fight to the man to guarantee that you don't win the campaign.

>>52811970
8 of your 10 hit at S3 no mod. You have nothing going for you over orks in cqc, no shooting, no way to win fights 1v1. People like to say boys over toys, but that's an oversimplification and even then nowhere near as true as it was in 2e/necromunda.

Debutantes are also a trap, you save 10 pts, but in exchange you're 50/50 of beating a guardsman in cqc. You have to buy 8 to counteract having one die and they can't get advances through what doesn't kill you.