/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>52778383
>Do you include religious content in your games?

If the PCs aren't founding some sort of quasi-religious cult by session two, I'm disappointed.

File: lasombracrown.png (8KB, 200x198px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 200x198px

>>52778383
>Do you include religious content in your games?
How could I *not*?

First for kindness:) supremacy.

>>52778460
>third

kek

>>52778383
>Do you include religious content in your games?

Of course, I like to play Obrimos.

File: cofdwodg.jpg (98KB, 591x1017px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 591x1017px

Reminder: it's your fault too when you do this

File: 1e8.jpg (13KB, 250x309px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 250x309px

>want to play in a first time friendly game of Werewolf, either F or A
>can't find any, or they get canceled before they start
>have weird dream the other night, can't even role play a werewolf in my own dream

I'm starting to think the universe doesn't want me to play werewolf

>>52778537
Don't go to regular roleplaying groups to get them into Werewolf. If you instead went to a furry group, it would be extremely easy to get them into roleplaying if you introduced them to it via Werewolf.

>>52778526
Vampfaggots need to stop sucking Caine's dick and learn their place.

File: HHAHHH.png (12KB, 468x425px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 468x425px

Prime 6 Archmage > Caine

>>52778591
but then I have to GM, and I still have no idea how to GM even after reading Forsaken 2e cover to cover and listening to multiple actual play podcasts

>>52778618

staaahppp

>>52778594
As soon as magefags stop defaulting to "m-m-muh archmages."

File: 1358715136763.jpg (621KB, 905x905px) Image search: [Google]

621KB, 905x905px

>>52778619
Oh right, PLAYING. That thing. Sorry, I've gotten too used to the world being in a state where games just don't exist at all if I don't GM, my bad.

Objective truth incoming

>Patrician tier
Wraith

>Great
Demon

>decent
Vampire
Hunter
KotE
Mage

>meh
Mummy
Changeling

>pleb
Power wanking Mage

>kill on sight
Werewolf

>literally who
Orpheus

File: Creepin on a mage in bed.png (430KB, 504x535px) Image search: [Google]

430KB, 504x535px

>>52778618
mages < the knot

>>52778672
So your hipsterism takes the form of sort of a bell-curve rating of how often the games are played, with the never-played-ever games at the top and bottom?

>>52778669
I wouldn't be opposed to GMing but I'm hesitant to jump in, as well as being kind of lost as to the mechanics of it, to it because I haven't played any ttrpgs. but if you had any pointers or resources I could take a look at that would help bridge that gap between player and GM that would be great

>>52778675
Hypothetical scenario: how different would WoD games be with NO rape or subtext thereof at all? As in nothing rapey or even thematically-rapey happens.

>>52778699
>werewolf
>never played

>>52778730
Aw hell, you should at least somehow find a way to play a game in this forsaken hopeless dimension, you can't GM if you've never played any TTRPG before.

>>52778672
More like:

>Good
Vampire
Werewolf
Mage

>Meh
Demon
Hunter
Changeling
Wraith
Mummy

>Shit
KotE
Gypsies
Orpheus

Here's a crunch question.

I establish a Ban. I want to add a caveat with Mind to designate, say, anything with the mind of a werewolf out.

I have been told by some that the only way a Ban would work with Mind is to keep things like astral projections out.

Who's right?

>>52778915
Fucking with bans is the purview of spirit magic. Mind would only work with astral entities.

>>52778945
Thanks man.

He means a space ban

>>52778915
Refusing physical entities access is life, spirits is spirit, goetia is mind, ghosts is death, physical matter is matter, forces is forces.

>>52778753
I'm doing what i can, it just doesn't seem to be enough

thoughts are also the perview of mind so you can probably ban certain thoughts/types of mind.

Just be aware if you dont have matter to let air in/out anything you ban might suffocate..

I only just realised.
Seers are even MORE suscpetible to Wisdom loss than a comparable Mage performing the same action.

The Mystery Commands condition granted by a Prelacy requires you to complete your Exarchal Obsession before you can pursue your own. An Obsession which almost always involved Wisdom-lowering actions. But since you're pursuing an Obsession, you decrease your Widom pool even further.

I would imagine Inuring and Legacies which help in performing your duties would be of extreme interest for the Seers.

File: 2bc.jpg (15KB, 600x583px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 600x583px

>>52778618
>Crossing old and new

Furniggers go home.

>>52779106
They out and out state that in the 1E Seers book, they love Legacies because it gives them another set of Oblations and such that they can perform to insulate themselves from Wisdom loss. It's also less important for them because there's no one to really call them on it unless they start going Scelesti, and maybe not even then.

>>52779106
Did you really think people serving super wizard hitlers were the most rational bunch?

File: 1486947646490.gif (1MB, 362x264px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 362x264px

>>52779148

Hey can we start posting something like 'new thread' whenever we link to the new thread from the old? I like being able to search for something instead of just guessing and scrolling down.

>>52779157
Can I just say that as an aside that I adore the Seers, even more than the Technocratic Union. Their motives are just so relatable at the end of the day, "These dudes are God's God, I'd be a fuckin' idiot not to serve," is a really, really effective and compelling sales pitch.

>>52779157
Don't the Seers forcefully coerce mages into joining them? Or track down newly Awakened and convert them.

>>52779148
Gangrel and werewolves and life mages are allowed here. If nothing else, the total lack of awareness they show can be cute only if they're girltistic, boytists are out of luck.

>>52778915
>the mind of a werewolf
Is...that a thing? I mean there are differences in say the soul of a werewolf compared to a human sure, but is there any difference between a werewolf mind and human mind?

>>52779200
There are many mages that never meet any one outside of their own little Magic Social Circle, and Seers are no different. They focus on trying to prevent Awakenings if they can, but will definitely try to recruit others hard, even Pentacle partisans, since they see it as a pragmatic as well as religious imperative.

>>52778987
Oh totally didn't pick up on that.
>>52778915
In this case if you're trying to ban a werewolf from entering you'd probably need a mix of Life and Spirit.

What you could do with Space and Mind is ban all thoughts of murder or killing you to create a zone where once you enter thr mere thought of instigating violence is banned.

File: Judge Claude Frollo.jpg (146KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 1920x1080px

>>52779157
Are you kidding? The Pentacle isn't even fighting a losing battle. They lost the war before it even began.

The Seers of the Throne might not be the most palatable bunch, but they made the rational choice that it's better to serve under the tyrannical, all-power assholes, than flail ineptly in the dark.

It's only when they've entered the organisation that they truly understand what they've signed themselves up for, and the true cost they must pay for their power. But now they're in too deep, and they've even started to LIKE it.

>>52779241
Interesting. Thanks for the reply.

>>52777777
I need to know

>>52779331
Dude, you're killing me, it's bad enough UA has the same basic themes as M:tAs but better.
>>52779249
Couldn't you ban certain essences of other supernaturals using say, Death for Ghosts, Prime+Spirit for Wolfies, etc?

>>52779369
what is UA about? I thought it was a 40k thing

>>52779188
The exarchs/seers are definitely much better antagonists than the technocracy Since the technocracy is unarguable doing the right thing.

I also love how they serve as a warning about the hubris of magic. If I can get any of my players to take pause and ask themselves "How are we any better than the Seers/Exarchs?" I'm happy.

>>52779425
You did it.

>>52779425
Unknown Armies is a game about Magic at a price. It's a lot more trailer trash feeling than Mage, magicians in the setting are like batteries, they charge up by performing obsessive, paradoxical actions (Playing Russian Roulette and Chicken to gain control over Fate, Slicing and Cutting yourself up to Heal and Enhance your body) or they gain power by finding a piece of the universal unconsciousness (called an Archetype) and aping it, gaining abilities based thematically around that.
>>52779472
I always felt that the Technos relies too much on indoctrination, whereas the Seers are more compelling because they rely on simple human nature, every one dreams of having dominion over their fellow man. The Seers start with that and go Up from there.

>>52778915
Werewolfs are both spirits and physical.

You could use a Matter, Life or Spirit spell to keep them out but there's probably some way for them to turn intangible like a spook ghost to bypass Matter or Life barriers. Probably, a Life + Spirit + Matter barrier would be best but you could get away with a Life + Spirit barrier.

Does anyone have any interesting stories involving Salubri in your vampire games? I'm playing in a new V20 game and I'm thinking about playing as one.

>>52779275
I wouldn't say the Seers are making a rational choice they just made the all too human decision when one is given godlike power and knowledge saying "Fuck it, I'm going to snort wizard coke off the ass of a vampire stripper who I'll turn into a lawnchair when I get bored of 'em."

>>52779602
Might wanna ask your DM before you put too much thought into it - Salubri are VERY rare in modern settings.

>>52779611
Because it is easier to give up your agency, even if it's the agency to basically be a God. It's easier to play and frolic in a game under rules someone else designed than to actually realize that you're accountable for your actions and wits and that you're succeeding or failing due to your own merits. The Seers are cowards, but they're the cowards which exist in all of us.

>>52779602
Why? They're so flat on substance other than "we're the good guys".

>>52779602
Don't, unless you're playing Antitribu, and then probably don't. They come with a fuck-ton of baggage, and due to their rarity and in-setting infamy the ST will essentially be forced to make your nature as a Salubri one of the focuses of the campaign due to your simple inclusion.

>>52779213
Have you never met a furry before?

>>52779645
I wouldn't say that. They're the Vampires the closest to 'The Truth' of the vampiric condition and how to solve it, but the idea that they're froofy and loving is off-base; V20 Dark Ages mentions how one of the primary reasons that the Salubri and Tzimisce are allies is that the Salubri often are used to patch up the poor Fiend's Ghouls. That doesn't sound like the actions of a very ethical person to me. Furthermore, you're only referring to the healers, the warriors (and watchers, I guess, even though I think they're kinda stupid) are a whole other kettle of fish. There's also the fact that the Baali are one of their bloodlines.

>>52779602
A salubri is about as rare as a methuselah. Don't bring one to a game.

>>52779472
1. The Technocracy are infinitely better antagonists then the Seers, precisely because the Seers are so flat and one dimensional by comparison.

2. The Technocracy isn't unambiguously doing the right there. Their Paradigm has a very good chance of destroying the universe if carried to its logical conclusion, and the world they're creating, while safe and prosperous, is also dull, restrained, and to a large extent RUN by the Technocracy. They're only doing the right thing if you value being safe more then anything else.

Anyone have any tips on getting normies who are interested in occult stuff but have never played an RPG interested in playing WoD?

>>52779930
Start with a basic mortal hunter game so they can get a handle on the core basics of the system and get the hang of making the regular human baseline that most of the other splats build ontop of.

You can also throw whatever kind of monsters you can think of at them.

>>52780028
That's more or less what I had in mind. I meant more to the point of convincing them that this is something they'd like to try.

>>52779611
>Fuck it, I'm going to snort wizard coke off the ass of a vampire stripper who I'll turn into a lawnchair when I get bored of 'em."

Indeed.

However, always choose changeling strippers. unless you're into necrophilia

>>52780166
You'll find a lot of normies are keen to give tabletops a go because it's such a pop culture icon.

But if you offer it and they just have no interest at all then you can't really rope them in.

>>52779602
http://theonyxpath.com/what-if-the-salubri-survived-v20-dark-ages-companion/

You're not allowed to play Salubri because you're not allowed to play weenies in a fucking vampire game, Steve.

Please post some of your favorite low power stories and adventures

>>52781573
I turned a vampire into a lawn chair once.

True story.

>>52781573
This was back in 1st ed CofD. Played Gangrel, took Protean up to 3. Because Claws of the Wild still did agg, you can ignore durability and deal damage straight to size. Built entire underground complexes for the Invictus this way. Cheesy as fuck, but gotta have that Status, man.

File: photo-1.jpg (84KB, 658x708px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 658x708px

>>52778669
>that uniform
>google his name
>see this
Jesus christ, it's like a poorly-written Hunter character.
>combat boots with service dress
>a green beret with rank insignia
>literally every medal and some repeated, cross service
>army badges on an air force uniform
Might as well go all the way and wear the Medal of Honor.
>ended up discharged at E-1 for drug use
Kek

>>52778455

So who/how do the modern nights Lasombra embrace? Back in the Dark Ages, they went after clergymen, what with their focus on the Catholic church.

>>52782006
En masse.

>>52782006
Pedophiles
So really not much has changed

First text-page of Wraith Doomslayer, found this gem "death fondling life like a molester fondling a sleeping child".

Beautiful prose in oWoD.

File: La Sombra.jpg (139KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 600x400px

>>52782006
Very pretty professional wrestlers

Is there anyone here that have actuall played or run Wraith? I'm am intrigued by it, but I'm worried about the shadow mechanics. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have the ST handle the shadows, but then again that would possibly remove some of the uniqueness of it.

>>52779745
Go suck on some flubber, Etherite.

Seriously though, that's all well and good, but the stultifying clutch of the Weaver is demonstrably better than the shitshow with the Garou in charge, the demon-roving mess of the Dark/Middle ages, being under the wrong magickal paradigm, or really living in the World of Darkness.

The Crats are smoothing out the wrinkles so you can't think, but none of the other Trads except the former Technocracy members have any plan for change. The Verbena, Euthanatos, OoH and Akashics actively want to rule over the masses just as much as the 'Crats do, too. GttT Revised puts it at the feet of the technomages, who are closer to the 'Crats than the Trads, paradigm wise.

The Technocrats aren't good, but they're certainly the lesser evil. Shit, after SPD gets cut, they may be the least evil. Everything's fucked, the Technocracy is unfucking it with technocratic authoritarianism.

File: familymatters1.jpg (530KB, 873x1160px) Image search: [Google]

530KB, 873x1160px

>>52782094
Edgy oWoD storytime

File: familymatters2.jpg (643KB, 839x1166px) Image search: [Google]

643KB, 839x1166px

>>52782186

File: familymatters3.jpg (654KB, 862x1141px) Image search: [Google]

654KB, 862x1141px

>>52782198

File: familymatters4.jpg (610KB, 840x1150px) Image search: [Google]

610KB, 840x1150px

>>52782208

File: familymatters5.jpg (391KB, 864x1144px) Image search: [Google]

391KB, 864x1144px

>>52782225

Was this Giovanni stuff published under Black Dog?

>>52781573
So this was our second session of VtR. One player was carthian and the other one ordo draculand they were both sent to the same human trafficing auction by their bosses. Other important people there were carthian fledling who served as a driver and 2 seers of the throne.

Long story short: fledling is unhappy about whole human trafficing stuff and leaves. Some thugs acost him because he looks like half starved college student. Carthian player goes to help and goes overboard with violance. Decides mils is already spilled so steals delivery truck and rams it through the barn in with auction was taking place.

All in all
>got the girls, saved the money, even gave the seers a good laugh at russian gangsters being inept enough to not be able to take out 2,5 neonate

>>52782270
Nah just the 2nd ed clanbook. IIRC it came shrinkwrapped but I bought it a long ass time ago. I think the Giovanni Chronicles was published under the Black Dog imprint though.

>>52782359

Yeah, just checked. GC are Black Dog publication. But what the fuck goes on in there?

File: vesago.jpg (69KB, 500x672px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 500x672px

>>52782380
Honestly I don't remember GC being that edgy. I think they just came up with Black Dog to sell more books. For me, peak edgy WW was basically everything pre-Revised.

>>52782455

I remember that one Tzimisce, Doktor Totentanz. That was fucking hilarious.

>>52782067
Less than you might expect. Lasombra and Tzimisce both think their blood's too good for the False Sabbat and leave shovel parties to antitribe rabble. Spotting a Lasombra in a Sabbat incursion is supposed to be an indicator shit's turning real.

>>52778664
Didnt Dave recently state that Archmages arent even mages any more but a whole new supernatural entirely?

File: DoktorTötentanz.png (1MB, 843x1090px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 843x1090px

>>52782472
It seems like everyone thinks 1st/2nd ed VtM is garbage, but they really turned the edge up to 11 and I can't thank them enough for all the fond teenage memories.

Using Werewolf: the Forsaken (with a few touchups) for magical girls. Good idea?

>>52781573
In our Vtmda game my companions managed to light a mansion on fire twice, while sneaking in and out of it.

While me and another player were inside talking to its Brujah lord

>>52782586
Can't be any worse than the Princess fan-splat/autism convention.

Do you get to keep attribute dots over 5 if you drop your Wyrd below 5?

>>52782586
I can totally see the Uratha being some splinter cell of magical girls trying to fight against the greater magical community that is the Pure Tribes. Go for it!

>>52782586
Keep the cannibalism.

>>52782552
They're not mages. They're archmages.

So yes.

>>52782552
Yes, essentially they've taken the training wheels off of their powers and soul on such a fundamental level that you can't even really call them Mages any more.

They certainly don't act in the same ways.

>>52783195
The same goes for Liches. Both have extremely different outlooks.

Can't wait for more on the Tremere.

>>52783208
I'd love to know just how Houses function in contrast to Legacies.

File: vampire-power-1.jpg (13KB, 400x397px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 400x397px

Sup, elegan/tg/entlemen, i've recently ran a semi-successfull VtM V20 game, and now i have to do with a post-apoc (as a result of players failure) game where one of the players is mortal. And i can't for the life of me find anything for creation of a mortal PC in V20. Please halp.

>>52783312
shouldn't it be detailed in the ghoul sections?

>>52783312
Could always use Hunters Hunted II rules I guess.

>>52783395
Thanks, mate, i somehow couldn't find that source book. Can you please be so kind as to provide the links? Cause my google-foo didn't come with any and they don't sell it in Russia.

>>52778383
Yeah, they're dealing with a demon summoned by a Tremere primogen right now, in fact

>>52778672
>>52778831
Why the lack of lovee for changeling? Tsk tsk.
It is at least as good as vampire

>>52783479
Because the discussion was owod

>>52783458
Check the pastebin link in the OP; it should have a Mega link in there that should take you to a V20 folder that has Hunters Hunted II.

>>52783554
>http://pastebin.com/xrKUUi0A
Couldn't find anything for the V20 there

>>52783591
>https://mega.nz/#F!KI00XCZA!sFV9L2S77bld5vzEmw5-vg!6cEhjB7R

Try that.

So...tell me about the settings you play in. What games, what cities and who are the movers and shakers?

>>52779930
I gushed about vampires so much and about how interesting tabletop is, that they gave in. Had 2 groups:

First group were my friends from school, restricted the clans to the base 7 and gave them freedom in making characters and taking various flaws/merits. 5 years later, almost all of them are still playing with me (1 dropped out due to studies)

Learned mistakes:
- don't allow OP flaws/merits
- don't allow Malkavians

Second group was a group of friends who expressed interest after I came to my formal school to give a talk on tabletop. Gave them a choice of premade characters. Played for a year before they stopped showing up completely. Still don't understand what happened, they were all having a blast, posting things on our group and asking for more sessions. Guess they just lost interest.

>>52782731
iirc, no

>>52783312
O, нoвый нeймфaг. Чтo ты дeлaeшь в /тг/? Я дyмaлa вce cидят в двaч тpeдaх.

>>52783818
Running: V20 with a strong Toreador, Ventrue
and until recently, Tremere presence. City is very small, so there's only 1 Gangrel (pc), 1 Nosferatu, 1 Brujah (pc) and a few Malkavians. Game been going on for 5 years (with short breaks from time to time when I was burning out) and is finally coming to an end.

Playing: Changeling the Lost, game has been going for 2 years now. Motley is all Winter court (GM asked for us to all be one court for story purposes which is fine by me) with my Fairest having Clarity 3, the lowest among all motley. She also has ties to a seedy club owner who might be involved in supernatural himself, and battles glamour addiction which is fun as hell to roleplay. Half a year ago a 5th court has appeared out of nowhere with its founder claiming he has the power to destroy the True Fae and a lot of idiots listening to him.

Playing: Just started Werewolf the Apocalypse, only did the prelude so far. Solo game, since no other players could make it, so I'll see where it goes.

>>52784001
I'm not what you think i am. I took the name for the sole purpose of helping my player. It's gone now. Watch.

>>52784020
This isn't even his final form!

>>52784039
It's not even my final pork

>>52784056
>pork
absolutely haram

>>52784020
Sorry, I have no idea who you are. First time seeing your name, so I assumed you're some Russian anon

Which Imperial Practice would I need to employ in order to manipulate tectonic plates?

If I wanted to use a Mage as an antagonist for a chronicle, what would be the most powerful Mage a party of other splats could conceivably bring down? Presuming the party are not brain-dead idiots who charge them head-on.

>>52784254
That's not an Imperial Practice, that's an Imperial Spell Factor on likely a Ruling, Weaving, or Patterning spell, depending on what you're doing.

>>52779538
>the Seers are more compelling because they rely on simple human nature, every one dreams of having dominion over their fellow man. The Seers start with that and go Up from there.

I tried for years to make the seers compelling/sympathetic to my players and the best reaction i got is "they are pathetic".

It must be a group thing but they just dont have any sympathy for sellouts who go into the world to make it a worse place on purpose out of greed/cowardice. Couple with the fact that killing a Seers is making the world a little better always, makes them have a "kill on sight" policy about them.

Even tried the whole "but they have loving families too" and their response was "so? Gangbangers have families too, that doesn't stop police from putting them down when they need to".

And they never engage in any questionable acts, using magic only to defend themselves or killing seers. No mentally controlling people for personal gain, or anything similar. Neither influencing humanity in any shape or forms through magic.

So in the end i quit trying to make them sympathetic and embrace their role as disposable mustache twirling canon fodder with kweel powers.

>>52784254
Dynamics (6 dots) & Transfiguration (9 dots)
The latter being a far more powerful alternative.

>>52784269
An Adept of any Arcanum is going to be grossly formidable.
A Master is plain suicide, assuming you're not equipped with plot armor.

>>52784269
What are your character's Templates, exactly?

Could a lonely mid-level mage offer protection to a qt changelist catboy against the Keeper trying to steal him back?

>>52784348
Well your players seem pretty uncompromising

>>52784405
They haven't written them yet, sorry. I'm just kicking around some preliminary ideas, purely as a hypothetical.

>>52784350
Suspected as much, thanks for confirming

File: 8313863.jpg (445KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

445KB, 1920x1080px

>>52784182
I am, it's just like do you know the definition of namefaggin'? It's not when you take the name for the couple of posts, it's when you think you're a special snowflake desrving it's name to be remembered and use it over and over again until you're associated with something and THAT something is being annoying useless fuck with some letters instead of "Anonymous".

File: bemused.png (44KB, 396x304px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 396x304px

>>52784406
Oh for the love of god

If that mage has sufficiency in Fate, sure.

>>52784467
Yeah don't worry, I do know what namefagging is, it's just that WoD threads have always been ripe with namefags and I have not visited tg for months. Thought you were one of the new ones

>>52783749
Thanks a bunch, mate. Much appreciated. The game is in two days and his mortal character is in the concept stage still.

>>52784463
You want a strong opponent to throw at them hit them with a Demon. You can even have 3 stage boos fight with him

>>52784531
Or a mummy.

Really, mages demons and mummies are going to be nigh-unbeatable final encounters.

>>52784348

I understand being selfish, but there is a big line between "having fun and putting yourself first" and "kneeling before outer gods with big bank accounts and deliberately thwarting anyone else's chance at happiness."

The Seers are what the Nephandi wanted the Technocracy to become.

There are left handed legacies with better justifications than the Seers, like a Fang who fights the abyss tooth and nail, A Logophage who is very selective about what is better off lost to the Awakened, or a Walker who uses Spirit to unfuck the souls they use.

>>52784843
Only time I made slightly sympathetic seer was a guy who was myrmidon proximi and was since childhood raised as Generals cultist. So only thing that changed for him after awakening was that other Seers had to stop trying to bully him

So what happens in Mummy games? Both oWoD and nWoD.

>>52785040
Mummy things

>>52785040

oWoD, as of Resurrection: Stop that Set asshole and spread the good word of Osiris. 1e and 2e were pretty different.

nWoD: Recover the mystical lost relics of your people, uncover the dark secrets behind your petty asshole cosmic masters.

>>52785040
>>52785097
>So what happens in Mummy games? Both oWoD and nWoD

People actually play CofD Mummy?

Who knew?

>>52785141
Well. No.

Mummy players don't actually exist.

File: OPP don't pay.jpg (621KB, 641x3000px) Image search: [Google]

621KB, 641x3000px

I think it's funny that after David Hill's tweets about payments and stuff for OPP, the VERY NEXT Monday Meeting notes (http://theonyxpath.com/princes-gambit-its-final-nights-on-kickstarter-monday-meeting-notes/) talks about their payment structuring and such... almost as if they're trying to run interference.

>>52785141

I ran a campaign of it for four or five years.

>>52785197 is correct, though. I no longer exist in this reality because of my actions.

>>52785216

It's more like doing PR after a big kerfluffle on Facebook. Cause there was one about payment.

>>52785263
>big kerfluffle on Facebook

What kerfluffle on facebook?

>>52785751

Same thing in that screencap up thread, just on Facebook, where more people commented.

So there's a feature of Masquerade that I quite like, and would enjoy seeing in Requiem: that the blush of life costs (8-Humanity) blood points to use--meaning, among other things, that vampires of 8 Humanity or higher can maintain it indefinitely. Does anyone else agree?

>>52784348

A thing to learn about morally compromising actions is that everyone does it for different reasons. Most people will find wealth and luxury petty as reasons go if they don't actually feel the temptation themselves, and they'd be right, but that doesn't mean they're innocent either.

The PCs should honestly end up committing morally dubious actions when it comes to things they care about. Maybe their mother has a magical disease and they know how to cure it; they just need fresh blood from a very specific person. Or maybe someone seriously hurts someone the Mage cares about and manages to get away with the crime. Imagine if your friend gets seriously injured in a hit-and-run at night and the driver got away unidentified.

But these are all low-hanging fruit. Most obvious of all is Obsessions. If you're the ST, offer players Arcane Beats for taking risky, immoral, or at least morally dubious actions for their Obsession and do it BEFORE they take the action.

"You're pretty sure the artifact this museum director is talking about is Atlantean. I'll give you an A-Beat to steal it."

"The Resonances here are powerful but no spirit has manifested. I'll give you an A-Beat if you strengthen the Resonances naturally, just to see what happens."

"Sisyphus here said your knowledge of your area of specialty is wrong. Beat him in a Duel Arcane for an A-Beat and prove to everyone that you're right."

Etc.

>>52785236

Well, I was the DM.
It IS entirely possible my players are just figments of my imagination.
That or they went back in time and stopped their own Mummification, retconning themselves out of the universe.

>>52784542

Sin Eaters, Prometheans, and Werewolves are incredibly dangerous if you underestimage them. Though they're not as powerful, they are worthy opponents in their own right

Vampires on their own aren't much of a threat, but do you know the problem with Vampires? There's so fucking many, and they're almost all connected to each other in some way.

>>52785886
This actually reminds me of something that annoys me about the Beat system: because of the game's genre, it always feels to me like some kind of demonic contract whose price is never really worth it, so I never want to do it, even if the game genuinely wants me to.

>>52785967

Yeah, Mages are powerful but not omnipotent, and definitely not invulnerable. A pack of Werewolves will fuck you up good, no matter your Arcana rating. And that's assuming Paradox doesn't fuck you up good before they even get the chance.

Having actually played a Mage up against a Werewolf Pack, I can tell you that it's a hell of a fight and anything but one-sided.

>>52786016

To be honest, I always felt the opposite; Beats make it way easier to let yourself follow your character's inclinations and do the stupid and/or fucked-up shit they might actually do, despite your own reservations.

Case in point, my Thyrsus got seduced by a handsome Changeling, despite already having a partner. It wasn't a decision I'd have made without Swooning being there to offer a Beat for it, despite it being the right thing for the character. It's just there as a small incentive, y'know?

So I re-read the Blank Badges splat, and Dave's partially right. They can be read as a collective.

But I was also right, they can also be read as mind-freaking individualists.

I think the best way to handle this would be making them a "split legacy," kind of like the Xiao in VtR.

You'd have the Blank Badges (Communards) and Blank Badges (Degenerates) who rely on Occultation or Fame, respectively.

Relations between the two would be Adversarial but not hostile. They might compete to see who can ruin more Seers in a set amount of time, or engage in prank wars.

Why would an Acanthus learn Spirit?
I'm coming up with homebrew Legacy ideas, and while most of them have some decent basis, I can't seem to think of a single good point of reference an Acanthus might have with regards to Spirit.

>>52786170

The Acanthus Path is one most heavily tied with old-school European witchcraft. It could be trying to emulate that. Perhaps it sees spirits as mediators for Fate; the extant form of a generational curse or good deed echoing on through the ages.

File: AHHH.jpg (625KB, 1534x1432px) Image search: [Google]

625KB, 1534x1432px

1st for ahrimane stealth vote supremacy

>>52786201
That's... Kinda weird.
Especially given that there's almost literally no basis for that belief other than introducing an entirely new, previously unmentioned kind of, or aspect of Spirits.

>>52786170
You can make contracts with spirits and turn yourself into a sort of True Fae.

>>52786223

seconded, remove their retarded fluff and they have an awesome signature discipline

>>52786372
just by game mechanics spiritus is soooo guuuud. It's like a cheaper and more versatile version of protean and even vicissitude

File: kylehidethoughtful.gif (78KB, 192x224px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 192x224px

What do you think the max generation of vampire a well-experienced group of three people with rating 5 benedictions could hunt is? 6th? Maybe 5th? Or am I putting too much belief in the Hunters?

>>52786424

The rules legal way to play a werewolf vampire

>>52786469
A 7th generation elder its bound to have not only supernatural advantage over them it would also have other vampires more than willing to aid him or protect him against a threat also many mundane contacts, allies and resouces, a mathusalen its beyond the reach of any hunter.

>>52786485
Only if they could also be space pirate amazons. Ninja catgirls they are no doubt

>>52786538
I was kind of ignoring the 'other vampire and mundane' angle and was going to pit them against a Wighted version of a 5th generation vampire. To be a total faggot in my explanation, I was wanting to aim for something like a fight against a hallowed Gwyn from Dark Souls, just this creature that is a total shell of its former power, but still requiring everyone to be at their absolute best to battle. But I guess if that's a for sure impossibility on a hunter's ability, I'll think of some other last crusade for them, thanks anon.

File: swiftnessofthestag.jpg (63KB, 360x500px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 360x500px

>>52786223
Stealth vote? Interested in seeing the deck list to see how you'd make that work. Voting just seems sort of weak for them since they don't have any titles, even though some of them do have PRE. Also not sure how you'd get reliable stealth unless you're loading your crypt with Gangrel antis with OBF and giving them spi with Muricia's special.

Spiritus just seems like it has more utility in combat/wall imo

File: giselaifu.jpg (12KB, 190x265px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 190x265px

Any vtes people around? I'm making an uncontrolled region control based on pic related. Can you give any advice on which vampires might have good synergies with her. The deck isn't necessarily going to be doing anything with necromancy. Mostly just aus/fort wall things. My plan is to get gisela up on like turn 2 and then just begin to ruin the game of my prey or predator.

>>52787094
>her last name is Harden
is she a fucking pornstar

>>52787029
chameleons colours is the main combat trick with loads of your pick and leapfrog. I get votes from crusades and deal player damage with krc and a little bit of bloat from the usual awe, voter cap and villein. I'm way too drunk to try and make a clear list. Also there's a few charge of the buffalos to bully weak guys if I really need to.

>>52787114
she does get me stiff even without her necromantic jujus

>>52787114
hahahahaha a weird afterthought came to mind. Consider the fluff of harbingers mang. What a grim job would it be to strut that undead meat under kaymakli surrounded by frenzying necromonks.

>>52787094
Combat weenies are probably a good idea. What are you using to torp minions?

File: concept_14.png (546KB, 802x794px) Image search: [Google]

546KB, 802x794px

Would you let this character join your motley?

File: giselasgift.jpg (10KB, 209x300px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 209x300px

>>52787312
I'm not going to torp anyone. Gisela the cock's inevitable Harden burns them before they get controlled state. A combat or bleed horde might work, since gisela can spread the love via pick related.

>>52787347
A master fencer fairest?
It feels a bit uninspired, particularly the low resolve for the results obtained, but meh. I always dislike obviously uncommon peeps being PCs so don't take this with a grain of salt.
Feels a bit uninspired but sure.

>>52787444
>>52787312
The thing is how do I get her reliably up preferably on turn 1 and how do I bloat her after her manjuice draining rampage. Zillah's valley works obviously, but I dont want to play more than 4 of it. Also if I make it a horde, info highway and dreams of the sphinx work.

>>52786071

So attainments for the individualists/degenerates
would be along these lines.

Concepts include Transgressive Artist, Street Magician, Notorious D-Lister, Gonzo Journalist, Internet Troll

Arcana: Mind/Prime (Do you need one for each level of only where appropriate?)

1st Attainment - Hey, look over there!
Target(s) are briefly distracted (Compelling)

Conjunctional Prime 1 - Pierce deception

2nd - Access Hollywood
Lets the degenerate substitute fame for status rating. (veiling)

Conjunctional Prime 2 - words of truth

3rd - Private life
Causes those nearby to forget that the Badge is famous temporarily (weaving)

4th Celebrity Freakout
Allows the mage to contain paradox with damage to willpower rather than health. This can lead to temporary derangements.

Conjucntional: Prime 4 - Apocalypse

5th Meme Magic
Causes a piece of non-magical media to become viral by encouraging those who see it to share it. (Making) Can only affect one meme at a time, and copies will not have this effect.

So, what are the crunch changes between V:tM Revised and V20?

>>52787347

What's the backstory?

>>52787347

Played a similar pc, i would recommend contracts of separation instead of vanglory and i played a dual kith dancer/soldier but ymmv

File: Toy Chest.jpg (30KB, 361x500px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 361x500px

>>52787094
How do you intend to keep her loaded? Also Zillah's Valley + full transfers into Vampire kinda ruing it for you, can't burn 8+ (without increasing your own capacity).
Anson + Parthenon shitton of Master is always viable,

>>52787114
>>52787238
>>52787280
Want something to play with? Check what's in the chest.

>>52787483
>>52787610
The idea for them being narrowly specialized was to take a character that focused their entire life around one thing and then being made to do it so much by the Keeper that they have grown to associate the one thing their human life was about with the abuse they endured in Arcadia.
I thought dealing with the conflict of loving fencing, but now also hating the memories and feelings it brought back would fit in well with the "reclaiming your life" theme.


>>52787620
The vainglory is actually left over from when the concept was a Ballet Dancer, but I found it hard to justify maxing weaponry then and otherwise the character felt a bit useless unless since I probably couldn't really engage in proper dancing that often and other skills also didn't really fit in.
Didn't even know you could dual kith.

>>52787688
her cap is the reason I'm asking for help. My memory is a bit limited, so I was hoping someone might know a group 1-3 guy who does something similar to gisela. That toy chest is going in my deck fo sho. Straid up breast implant reference rait dea.

>>52784001
>Learned mistakes:
>- don't allow OP flaws/merits
Like what?

>- don't allow Malkavians
No one likes Malks in my table, so I've never had problems with them

>>52787688
oh yeah bloating her was also a thing I'm wondering. Maybe matthias will go give her renewed vigor if I won't go the weenie route.

>>52787739
Harass, some Tremere shit for stealing blood, and aforementioned Anson with master phase shenanigans.

The problem of your deck idea is that you will also need something for actually killing your Prey. Plus Gisela doesn't really say anything about being able to target Predator with her ability.

File: brainwash.jpg (59KB, 360x500px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 360x500px

>>52787485
You actually can't use Zillah's Valley with her cos she's cap 7. You could play a bunch of Brainwashes to stymie your prey until you can influence her into play, other than that Information Highway & Dreams is probably your best bet.

damn I should have worded my last post more suggestively. I mean Gisela the hardon sucks people dry before they are in the game, she spreads some kind of sadomaso love via martyrs resilience and when she gets tired matthias is there to give her more stamina. This is vtes, the game of turning even scholarly monks into deviants.

>>52787889
oh riiight I forgot that totally. Shouldn't go by memory. Brainwash is an obvious pick.

>>52787811
Fifth Tradition: Hospitality, Blood Doll, Hunting Ground (do Harbingers even have one?), the usual.

File: millicentsmithpuritanvampirehunter.jpg (92KB, 360x500px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 360x500px

>>52787919
>scholarly monks into deviants
Mai waifu is pure

>>52787881
I was thinking of going some dementation weenie tactics, if I go weenie. Another strong possibility might be the addition of matthias, so I could introduce pulse of caine and that sweet salubri bloat.

>>52787734

I'd want to see this character have to struggle through "fish out of water" situations a lot of the time, but of course they should get a chance to show off.

File: scc.jpg (91KB, 357x500px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 357x500px

>>52787975
>goes around with the whole table
>pure

>>52787975
Ohhh isn't that some angry abbess. She might go better with anarch revolt or smiling jack tactics. Angry card in any case. This is even from such a recent set I'm not familiar with her.

>>52788017
hadsshasdhfad

The ones who claim to be pure todemax have some vaseline coated skeletons in their closets.

File: millicentsmithpuritanvampirehunter.jpg (45KB, 355x499px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 355x499px

>>52788024
She was in Jyhad though...

>>52788056
ohh then too early. I started during final nights and had a break to play with opiates when ebony kingdoms was released. Now I'm clean and playing true games again.

File: Swole Jawa.jpg (136KB, 781x509px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 781x509px

Stat Swole Jawa, both as a normal mage and as an archmage.

There's 6 people online in lackey btw. We could have more. 2 simultaneous games would be golden.

>>52788229
I have to go to work :(

>>52784908

The only other way to make a seer sympathetic is an Ex-Pentacle who got sick of the bullshit and constantly tries to convince themselves they made the right choice

>>52788174
I'll take Swole Jawa seriously when he puts on some pants.

>>52788412
>I'll take Swole Jawa seriously when he puts on some pants

Pants serve the Lie.

Beings of such immense power like Swole Jawa will not be so constricted.

>>52788412
Swole Jawa is obviously a Life Mage. Just look at how fucking swole he is.

If the nigga wants to shapeshift, you really think he's gonna stop to take off some pants? Nah, he just shakes off that hood and goes.

What sort of things would you find in an ancient Tremere's lair?

Examples:

- A mausoleum of bound,gagged,blinded and staked vampires in torpor organized by generation and clan.
- A freezer full of blood bags of various supernatural creatures.
- An entirely functional nuclear bomb.

>>52788876
Saulot's dust.

>>52788876
A very thirsty ancient Tremere.

>>52788876
That one nail of the cross
Haunted Tiki doll
That one last living member of his mortal family he's trying to breed to continue laundering his money
wetnaps

>>52788876
Chastity cages

>>52786300

>no basis

What gives you that feeling? Spirits are created by Resonances; people create Resonances through actions and decisions. Fate isn't some totally unseen force; it's often consequences drawn from someone's actions but which they do not see due to long chains of events or simply personal bias.

Spirit fits pretty well with that notion.

>>52778731
They would be devoid of quite a bit of fluff, as well as lacking any sort of powers like Dominate or Majesty or the entirety of the Mind and Life spheres control over living things. Spring's Contracts and the whole court would probably be out too.

So my group is starting a nWod game this week and I don't know what to play. It's a mixed game and we're allowed to play any of the "races" except for mage. Obviously I need to make a character that I find fun, but what types do you guys like to play the most?

>>52784444
>Well your players seem pretty uncompromising

Yeah, i never had problems making the technocracy sympathetic to them but i also run game in post revised where nobody cares about the ascension war and my players care even less about the consensus. So the technocracy is a grey hat antagonist trying to keep the masquerade up, make some questionable science and clean house.

>>52785886
>The PCs should honestly end up committing morally dubious actions when it comes to things they care about. Maybe their mother has a magical disease and they know how to cure it; they just need fresh blood from a very specific person.

This wouldn't fly for my group, i tried something similar (the kind of "you gotta do something questionable to solve this") in a shadowrun game and their response was that they felt railroaded as there should have been a "everyone wins" outcome if an "everyone loose" outcome was also possible. So they proceed to never emotionally invest in their surrounding NPCs (parents, spouses etc) because apparently i would kill them for "cheap drama" (which was that time only).

> If you're the ST, offer players Arcane Beats for taking risky, immoral, or at least morally dubious actions for their Obsession and do it BEFORE they take the action.

I mean they never take the normal beat for converting a failure in a dramatic one. I clarify them multiple times that a dramatic failure is not character dead or permanent maiming but they preffer to gain XP without risk.

I guess i get were they are coming from, the kind of temptation a seer feels is not one the Player would feel because they are removed from their PCs, they dont have grinding routines as they just put dots in resources and thats it. And they come to play a game and living for principles only seems more fun/interesting than a everyday RL sellout.

>>52779538
>every one dreams of having dominion over their fellow man
Yeah but what good is dominion when you are merely a slave?

>>52789708
I really don't get mixed splats game
like all of the various creatures have a very different theme of their horror and like half the book is dedicated with interacting with the social and political structures of their race

mixing multiple splats together just throws this all out of the window

>>52789782
Basically all of our games come down to a motley assortment of supernaturals working for Aleister Crowley in order to fight horrors from beyond the stars. It's basically CoC in WoD. So it works out.

>>52789714

I've never had a WoD character with a steady job who wasn't a secret agent, executive, occult detective, rock star, or something equally awesome.

>>52789714

For dramatic failures, it really helps if you actually tell them what the dramatic failure means. Ideally, it should make things more interesting, rather than end the story. If the character's fleeing the cops, a failure means the cops get closer and get a look at them; a dramatic failure means dropping their wallet or getting grabbed by a bystander trying to help the police.

For Obsessions, you don't really need to make it life-or-death. Once one player does it and starts getting ahead, others will follow.

Alright, so I have a question.
Out of all the various subsystems for social interaction, which one do you think works the best? By my count new 1e didn't really have any besides some ideas for rolls that they all have, new 2e has the doors, there was sway in mirrors, and then I think one other over in that one vampire book.

File: hotline.jpg (671KB, 1280x828px) Image search: [Google]

671KB, 1280x828px

>>52789750
It comes back to the Serve in Heaven, Reign in Hell problem, except one of your jobs is to making sure whoever chooses to Reign catches absolute Hell. There's one of the Signature characters in the Seers book who encapsulates this well, He was found by a group of Arrows who basically told him he was part of a war for reality, and that the terrifying being with a body of marble, feet of gold, hands of silver and wreathed in flames that he was chased by during his Mystery Play was what they're fighting against. The guy just got up and noped the fuck out of his group, went and found the Seers and joined them.

>>52790928
To be honest fighting exarchs even without something like that is scary prospect. You and your friends become masters. Real badasses. Make big plans and put them into motion. Waltz through the opposition. And then all of the sudden...Ochemata

Any notable examples of vampires embracing hunters for their own purpose, whatever it may be?

I recall one anon a few threads back who talked about how some vampire wanted to embrace his hunter.

>>52791082
Exactly, maybe i'm just like a coward at heart or something, but I find the Seers pitch alluring myself. At least you can just go be a grave-digger or some shit and basically just stay out of the politics as a seer, Pentacle types seem like they've been press-ganged half of the time.

>>52790928

I recall a cabal in Keys to the supernal Tarot had a brainwashed guardian pawn defect and keep trying to convince herself she's happier this way.

>>52791580

No reason you can't stay out of politics in the Pentacle either.

>>52786030
>A pack of Werewolves will fuck you up good, no matter your Arcana rating

Didn't Dave mention that a single Thyrsus would be the worst possible opponent for an entire Pack to face though?
I'm fairly certain a single Master would be capable of annihilating a given Pack, depending on specifics of course.

>>52791829

Someone being your "worst possible opponent" doesn't mean you can defeat them single-handedly, or even win in a fight against them straight-up.

A Thyrsus can suffocate loci, turn spirit allies against them, create wards to block their attacks, even deal damage that they can't heal if they're willing to chance it, but Werewolves always travel in Packs. No Thyrsus is powerful enough to take on all of them at once.

Maybe - MAYBE - if it took place inside a large enough demesne and the Thyrsus had plenty of prep-time. In my case, it was just a lone Thyrsus and a really powerful Claimed ally against five or six Werewolves. If it hadn't been for some serious luck, I don't know how it'd have gone, but I don't picture the Thyrsus having gotten out of there clean. Or at all, probably.

>>52791580

Or just become a nameless and do crosswords to satisfy your curiosity

>>52791580

Pentacle outnumber Seers 2 to 1 on average. I'm guessing that's because of the Council, though. So safety in numbers is a Pentacle advantage where the council and diamond are on good terms with each other.

Undermining this relationship is probably of paramount importance to the seers.

Are nWoD Changeling and Vampries the closest splats powerlevel wise?

>>52792162
Splats and the way their powers work make asking questions like this mostly useless.

>>52792188
Do magefags get a free pass for this topic because of their autism then?

>>52792072
>Someone being your "worst possible opponent" doesn't mean you can defeat them single-handedly, or even win in a fight against them straight-up
The way Dave wrote his comment suggested something entirely based around hostility, even going as far to describe it as a 'meeting' taking place.

>A Thyrsus can suffocate loci, turn spirit allies against them, create wards to block their attacks, even deal damage that they can't heal if they're willing to chance it, but Werewolves always travel in Packs
You're just flaunting how much of a troll a Thyrsus can be when it comes to the Uratha.

>No Thyrsus is powerful enough to take on all of them at once.
I can fully and wholly agree on this assessment, assuming of course the Thyrsus in-question isn't a Master.

https://imgur.com/gallery/HWWDj
Hey assholes have a story time

Reminder that white room discussions involving Masters isn't a fair discussion.

They only need a single Exceptional Success to delete a group of murder hobos.

>>52792242

Masters aren't actually that much more powerful than an Adept, and the Mage in question would need to be a second-degree Master (Life AND Spirit) to fully bring to bear Unmaking spells on Werewolves.

A second-degree Thyrsus Master is at least Gnosis 6, too. Any character who achieves the sixth dot of their power stat is a force to be reckoned with, and Werewolves at that level are going to likely have Pack mates of comparable ability.

Seriously, Werewolves will fuck your day up good. Mages are powerful - nigh-unbeatable if the fight takes place on their own terms - but not omnipotent, and numbers tend to win out in situations like these.

>>52792389
All crossovers are redundant since there's no balance between any splat

>>52792405
>Masters aren't actually that much more powerful than an Adept

You're fucking hilarious, buddy.

>>52792124
The pentacle may be a dysfunctional family but they're still a family. Even the SL's and FC's strained relationship is positively loving and nurturing compared to Seer politics.

>>52782455
The story itself isn't anything edgy but the character backgrounds are

File: 1489784928738.jpg (168KB, 1033x679px) Image search: [Google]

168KB, 1033x679px

>>52787604
Minor tinkering with disciplines and the hunting system. Celerity now costs 1bp per turn rather than scene as it did in V:tDA but grants bonuses to your dexterity pool when you're not using extra actions. Potence grants extra dice to strength pools and only auto successes if you spend a BP.

Disciplines are also learned differently.

>In Clan disciplines can be learned without a tutor.
>Out of clan disciplines require the ingestion of a point of blood from a vampire that knows that discipline plus instruction for the first dot only.
>Sorcerous disciplines require instruction or book learning every step of the way, in clan or out.

>>52792479

You mean even the FC and Guardians, right? Because while the FC/SL may have some strain, it's nothing compared to the genuine hatred the council has for the guardians

>>52792405
This isn't a question about omnipotence, this a matter of capability. To say a Pack will deal with a Thyrsus Master with ease? No one is going to take you seriously.

>Masters aren't actually that much more powerful than an Adept
They are ludicrously more powerful.

>Werewolves at that level are going to likely have Pack mates of comparable ability
A werewolf and a mage of equivalent experience are not going to be comparable, they're just not.

>Seriously, Werewolves will fuck your day up good. Mages are powerful - nigh-unbeatable if the fight takes place on their own terms - but not omnipotent, and numbers tend to win out in situations like these.
If you're trying this hard to dissuade the obvious, I can't imagine the excuses you will bring to bear when someone drops the 'muh Cabal' bomb on you.

>>52792405
>Mage in question would need to be a second-degree Master (Life AND Spirit) to fully bring to bear Unmaking spells on Werewolves.

In 2e, a mage does not need conjunctive use of Life and Spirit to affect werewolves (or Death and Life to affect vampires).

This is why magefaggotry even happens, when an idiot decides to challenge one of the three strongest splats.

See you tomorrow.

File: dumbledore.gif (2MB, 498x280px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 498x280px

>>52792575
>More magecuck false flagging

Grow up

>>52792530
I wouldn't say outright hatred it's more a fundamental disagreement on the use of magic. But that's true of all the pentacle orders to some degree.

To Hell with the Silver Ladder, Free Council, Arrow and Guardians. They're all a bunch of monkey lovers.

>Mysterium Supremacy

>#TheSeersGetSomethingRight

>>52792461

When it comes to Life or Spirit vs. a Werewolf? They really aren't. I can say this from experience.

>>52792531

In what way are Masters ludicrously more powerful than Adepts? An Unmaking spell is nasty, yeah, but it's Withstood and still provokes a Clash. Meanwhile, an Unraveling spell can inflict (Potency) aggravated damage. For most creatures, Unraveling spells are more efficient at killing.

Also, I said a werewolf PACK. The whole reason werewolves are so dangerous is because they move in groups, never singly. Mages might have a cabal, but most cabals in the setting are like a hobbyist club; they meet to share and discuss secrets and work together on group projects, but spend most of their time alone.

>>52792537

Why would you need Death and Life to affect a Vampire?

You do need Life and Spirit to Unmake a Werewolf in totality. You can't target its entire being to Unmake it with just Life or Spirit.

>>52792874
You're free to run your game anyway you see fit. It might not be really accurate to the rules but you do you anon.

>>52792954

That's some hot, spicy passive-aggression on you, buddy.

Werewolves are equal parts spirit and flesh. There's a reason that a Spirit Shielding spell can block their Gifts but not their claws.

>>52792874

If you cast an Unmaking spell targeting the Life or Spirit aspect of a werewolf, the result will be one very dead werewolf.

It's also quite easy to instantly kill a werewolf with Umaking (or Making) spells of the other Arcana.

Lastly, while master level instant-kill spells are technically Withstood, a player can opt to eliminate Withstand entirely in the event of an Exceptional Success on the spellcasting roll. Given the huge dice pool of masters,plus the use of Praxes and Rotes (which masters can create and receive extra bonuses), the availability of more Yantras, etc., rolling an ES is not particularly difficult for such powerful mages. Further, targets do not get an additional Clash of Wills to survive a master-level attack unless the target can reflexively use a power that counters the specific spell.

Simply, it is unwise to fuck with master mages.

>>52793053

>it is unwise to fuck with master mages

Not really being disputed; simply being stated that there isn't really that much difference in threat between them and, say, an Adept with a rote. It doesn't particularly matter how you die; you're simply dead either way.

>If you cast an Unmaking spell targeting the Life or Spirit aspect of a werewolf, the result will be one very dead werewolf.

That's... Kind of uncertain territory. You might simply deprive them of one set of powers, or turn them into a really angry wolf spirit. There isn't really a precedent on what happens in that situation.

>>52793133
>really that much difference in threat between them and, say, an Adept with a rote

Are you using 1e or 2e rules? Because there is a world of difference with how Masters use rotes.

>>52793133
>There isn't really a precedent on what happens in that situation.

The precedent is "what does the mage want to accomplish with the spell?" If he wants the werewolf to die, he fucking DIES. End of story.

>>52793133

If you eradicate all life functions in a werewolf, they will be quite dead.

If you eradicate all spirit aspects and components of a werewolf, at the VERY least, they will no longer be a werewolf, and will be in a whole lot of hurt, and probably dead.

>>52793181
I think maybe you could use the rules for soul loss if you unmake a werewolf's spirit.

>>52793167

You misunderstand: I'm not saying Masters aren't powerful; I am saying that the end result is still reliably the same between them. Dead is dead; the route and how big a crater your ashes are smoldering in doesn't really matter.

>>52793177

A Mage might want to use Death to make them a margarita. Doesn't mean it happens that way. The Arcana have to be suited to the purpose. You might simply not be able to target a Werewolf's biological functions because they're running at least half of them on spiritual hardware.

>>52793181

Will they? Can you even do so without mastery of the other Arcanum that underpins them? I mean, a werewolf's vital organs, bones, tissues, etc., are at least 50% ephemera; they regularly undergo impossible shapeshifting. How can you know what's going to happen if you try to Unmake their Life aspect? Can you even do so?

>>52793262
>A Mage might want to use Death to make them a margarita. Doesn't mean it happens that way.

They're MAGES. Of course it does.

>>52785828
Wow, I didn't know there was a kerfluffle on Facebook about it. Link?

>>52785216
>$.05 a word
Fucking hell. A competent smut writer on furaffinity charges $.10 per word.

Go ahead, ask me how I know that.
>Muh Knot

>>52794221
Not that they're apparently going to pay him anyway. I hate David H. with a passion, but money owed is money owed.

>>52794221

Five cents a word is actually the highest possible rate in almost the entire RPG industry, if you can believe it.

>>52794420
I also love how the monday meeting contradicts itself. It talks about 'how they got away from the per word' rate and yet there's a writer still getting paid that way, 3 cents per word. They need to get their shit in order.

>>52792874
You realize that an Exceptional Success Unmaking spell of doom bypasses Withstand, right? Eventually the Master is going to have a nigh certainty of gaining such.

It's not difficult to see how a 1v1 would end between a swole werewolf and a masterful wizard.

File: 1484536571009.png (220KB, 529x632px) Image search: [Google]

220KB, 529x632px

>>52794259
>>52794420
So what the fuck happened? We're they just letting him write fanfiction with a ruleset and having someone develop the actual game behind his back?

And agreed. Calling Hill worthless might be an insult to worthlessness but he was, apparently, delivering content in good faith.

>>52794584
Swedish Dracula and questionable hiring practices.

>>52794584
The only info I have is what I copy/pasted off of his twitter above. How long ago did he quit over Zak S.? Likely when he 'quit developing for WW' they had to move on with developing themselves. Probably a couple months worth of stuff.

>>52793227
Spirits aren't the same as souls.

Jesus, where did all the retarded werefags come from?

>>52794641
The same place as all the retarded magefags?

>>52792072
>>52792405
>>52792874
>>52793019
>>52793133
>>52793262

You are so fucking misinformed on so many things.

I can't even fathom how you even exist.

>>52794684

I actually get to play Mage?

>>52794621

Beyond questionable, really. I'm really, really thankful he doesn't give a shit about OPP or CofD.

>Above idiot trying to argue that there's little to no radical difference between the capabilities of Adepts and Masters.
Yeah, it's not as if Master crafted Rotes don't one shot everything, right guys? *snicker*

Jesus get over it. Masters can kill scores of shit. They even have 5 more potential dots in Gnosis to achieve. You don't need to be an Archmaster for that.

A Pack is in for absolute hell if they try attacking the witch's hut of a Thyrsus Master. Could they win? Maybe, but they're going to lose so much more than the actual mage.

>>52792505
Eh. I've never really liked V20, for some reason (a lot of it is petty and aesthetic, like I hate the borders and fonts they use), so I might just stick with Revised.

>>52793133
>That's... Kind of uncertain territory

No it's not, you insufferable fuck. Unmaking ends you entirely. There isn't leeway for shit.

>>52794751
He's still going to fuck everything up.

>>52794770
Check out the VDA20. It's actually got a much better system for Celerity that isn't broken and comes paired with a rule that disallows splitting dice pools in combat.

File: DaveB Thyrsus.png (31KB, 1168x295px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 1168x295px

Wizards vs dogs? Even the Dev thinks a Pack shouldn't fuck with a single Thyrsus.

He also acknowledged previously that you don't damage a werewolf to beat it, not without having your spleen flying across the room.
You end the threat then-and-there.

>>52794885

I also find it troubling that the Anon's default assumption is this hypothetical fight will always be one Thyrsus versus and entire pack. It ignore that most mages join cabals for mutual protection, and they're a fundamental element of mage society.

A cabal of adepts, no less masters, against a pack with a similar amount of XP will be a bloodbath that will render the werewolves little more than smolder bits of fur. Forget about what Spirit 5 or Life 5 can do to them, and consider the effects of Forces 5 or Fate 5.

>>52794584

OPP probably knew that Hill would feel the need to quit as soon as Zak S was announced to be the writer for We Eat Blood, so they quickly set up a new dev team to make a new game to take over when he quit.

If this is true, they just decided to not tell him or let him know for some reason. It's weird because he mentioned that he wanted to help with the dev transition, so why not tell him that they had a contingency planned and pay him his kill fee once he drops?

>>52792874
>In what way are Masters ludicrously more powerful than Adepts? An Unmaking spell is nasty, yeah, but it's Withstood and still provokes a Clash. Meanwhile, an Unraveling spell can inflict (Potency) aggravated damage. For most creatures, Unraveling spells are more efficient at killing.
Not to be brash, but... The werewolves won't get the chance to Withstand nor will it be eligible to Clash, as that's not how CoW works.
The charts as they currently are literally enable a Master to exceed 90 percent chances of bypassing Withstand.
Whether this was intentional or a flaw in the system, it's overpowered as overpowered goes.

Masters are far more powerful than Adepts due to the fact that they have so much more room to grow in strength.

>Also, I said a werewolf PACK. The whole reason werewolves are so dangerous is because they move in groups, never singly. Mages might have a cabal, but most cabals in the setting are like a hobbyist club; they meet to share and discuss secrets and work together on group projects, but spend most of their time alone
You would be a fool to assume that Cabals are nothing more than book clubs. These are groups of individuals regularly dealing with threats far beyond what the Uratha deal with.
Masters can butt heads with chained gods far stronger than any Idigam. The Bound are no joke, the Abyss being another 'no joke' situation.

File: The Pack - p53 - Mages.png (45KB, 414x279px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 414x279px

>>52794885

Forget about what DaveB, the mage developer thinks about mages vs. werewolves, and check out what's suggested in The Pack, an actual Forsaken 2e supplement.

"interfering with a mage is a great way to find out which fates are worse than death"

Amazing how a single misinformed / illiterate werefaggot can produce so many triggered magefags. Correct the furnigger all you want, you're still proving just how anal you are over wank and how obsessive you are over proving them wrong. Proof both ways.

Ever think it would be easier / kinder to just let the non-mages believe that their favorites splats stand a chance against old men in pointy hats? It certainly would give you a little humility.

>>52795036
I can't tell if it's false flagging or not at this point.

>>52795036
Sorry. The idiot actually thought a group of giant mutts could reliably challenge an old witch who enslaves rank 5 spirits for a living.

They had to be put down and learn their place.

>Mage Supremacy

>>52795075
The magefaggots are everywhere. They have eyes in every corner of /wodg/

I bet you're a magefaggot.

>>52795020
I bet the above idiot is having a mighty loud REEEEEE at this point.

I would personally Unmake his dick off so he can't breed anymore retards. Just to be safe.

>>52794885
So, basically, if Thyrsus stopped being lazy bums, they could collectively fix all the Shadow's problems?

File: are you blonde.jpg (162KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

162KB, 640x480px

>>52792874
>>52793133
>>52793262

>>52795225
Not really. Mage interests conflict almost constantly, their spells require Willpower dots to safely relinquish, and Mages prior to Archmastery are still incapable of performing any major influence upon Rank 6+ Spirits, which orchestrate entire Choirs of pawns.

But on the smaller scale?
An Adept of Spirit can nip many a Shadow-related problems in the bud.

File: STAHP.png (23KB, 199x301px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 199x301px

You guys are beating on a dead corpse. The werefag probably already researched his mistakes and moved on.

Can we PLEASE move on?

>>52795300
The mageposting never ends

Afterall you are in the /mpg/

>>52795300
It's more fun correcting non-magefags, to be honest.

Thing I approve of with Masquerade, which I may have mentioned before: keeping your Humanity at 8 or higher means that you can keep the blush of life on permanently.

And on that note, has anyone here tried specifically to keep their character at a high morality stat, above 7?

>pack of werewolves charge thyrsus master
>master already hung an unmaking spell of 'I kill you now'
>the entire pack is deleted

boooo hoooo

File: a cup of doge.jpg (25KB, 478x414px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 478x414px

Shut up you bastards! This spite for packs of werewolves is just your cover up.

You ARE tsundere for the knot! You're secretly blushing we all know it. You even want it.

Magefags hold grudges. They're not going to let this go for about another thread.

>>52795326
I have a player who has been attempting that, as she is working towards The Rebirth and feels that you must have a HIGH humanity, plus murder your sire, to get it. I like the idea from 1e VtM and have integrated it for her to mess with.

>>52795437
There's the trouble I have: I like having high Humanity and being generally moral, but I honestly have no desire at all to try to return to mortality. My characters tend to enjoy their state of being.

>>52795427
I don't understand it though. They already proved their point. They don't need to drag it out.

>>52795529
Didn't say it was a requirement, and Rebirth isn't even mentioned past 1e. We're doing it as a neat plot thread, but it's not a requirement to have do that when you have a high humanity.

>>52795625
I know, I'm just looking for any excuse to ramble about Vampire.

>>52795628
No worries. I find that high humanity is an interesting ngle to go with the vampire standards. There's also a lot of ideas with high Humanity and versions of Golconda, like the one that makes you have all the vampire powers and none of the weaknesses.

>>52795666
That would definitely be a nice thing to have.

Do you agree with having actions taken in self-defense or defense of another not count as strikes against Humanity?

Are magefags exaggerating when they say that a thyrsus could trample over a group of garou?

>>52795696
Depends on the setting and such. There's a point where I have, and there's a point where I gave them extra dice based on those factors.

>>52795749
What are your standards there?

What rank would you put the god of a decent sized forest as?

>>52795759
It was based on the game itself. We had a very high-octane 'Underworld' style game and in that one I gave them a fee pass on self-defense/defense of another. We had another game where we had less of an action bend, but we all felt tht 'self defense' was viable, and so in that one we used normal humanity rules and I gave them extra dice in those instances. These were with two different groups, so different ways that we wanted to look at the game. Combat in the second game was rare and deadly when it happened, so deadly plus humanity plummeting like a rock wasn't the goal.

>>52795743
>Garou
I think you mean Uratha

>>52795743
>Are magefags exaggerating when they say that a thyrsus could trample over a group of garou?

Not really, although it does depend on the capabilities of the individual mage and werewolves and the circumstances of any encounter.

By the time a mage is an adept, the odd heavily favor the them, by mastery, the werewolves stand little chance of survival.

See >>52795020

>>52795743
No, because a thyrsus and a garou would never encounter each other. They're in separate universes.

A Thyrsus with 4-5 dots in Life could fuck up a Gauru-form Uratha, though. As much as anything else that deals Lethal or Agg damage.
At Life 5, they could straight up snuff the life out of an Uratha, but that's a very experienced Mage.

As for what Spirit could do to an Uratha, I don't think there's anything solidly established in the books. Or even implied.

>>52795768
4-5 depending on the forest.

>>52793053
>the Life or Spirit aspect of a werewolf
I...don't think thats how the metaphysics shake out. Like if we assume werewolves are blends then I'm pretty sure you actually need both to affect one, you cant just pick one part and affect just that part.

>>52795854
Spirit can fuck with how the Uratha function.

>>52795768
3-4, perhaps 5 if it's a really potent forest for its size

>>52795923
By that logic you would also need to also use Life when mentally dominating someone with Mind.

See how that fails?

>>52795946
My understanding is that its all based off of weird supernal symbology and not literal things. Like what I'm saying is if your interpretation is right, couldn't forces or even matter do every thing Life could do?

>>52795923
Uratha are made up of both life and spiritual residue, but one can't really exist without the other.

Whether a mage uses Life or Spirit to Unmake an Uratha, it matters not. The wolf is dead.

>>52795991
It is explicitly mentioned that some purviews of the Arcana overlap, so yes.

>couldn't forces or even matter do every thing Life could do?
But not this far. Nowhere near that.

>>52796033
I get the idea, but I always thought it existed in this weird form where like, on the supernal level a thing is just one thing, you can't divide it up into sub bits. If the true 'form' or whatever of a werewolf is this weird ass blend of life or spirit, just a life unmaking wouldn't do anything I would think. Or is this all from old 1e plato stuff and I'm thinking about it wrong

>>52778731
One of my characters wouldn't have become a hunter but to be honest the story took an almost dark spin.

The game was broken up into two campaigns. The first one having us play as kids (11-13) who are still mortal but have supernatural merits such as Wolf-Blooded, Psychic, Low Thamuturgy, etc. The story was that we lived in a town like Twin Peaks/Gravity Falls with a strong mana and spirit locus in the neighboring woods that attracted Ghosts, Spirits, Werewolves, Mages, etc.

I played a kid Wolf-Blooded with dual tells Exciting and Bitten. My parents were rich assholes and held rights to half of the woodland area were all the magic shit was happening, the other half belonging to a rival family that were Werewolves/Wolf-Blooded. Werewolves were trying to take the land for territory and my character's parents were going to deforest most of the area so they could build a resort property. My character's uncle was greedy and originally wanted us to sell the land to the rival family for a quick profit but because of bad blood between the two a sale was off the table.

My father was killed by a werewolf early in the story and I was left with my mom. However the werewolves also tried to take out my character and his mother when we were driving home from school. They had used some Gifts to make the area foggy and descended from the hills to ram our car over the cliff we were snaking through. They "killed" my mother, and left me severely wounded (broken leg and a severe bite mark on my right shoulder). I wake up in the hospital and they say that my mother is missing and I'll be put in the care of my uncle for the time being.

As I'm still in the hospital I hear my uncle screaming with some lawyers as it seems that the property would not pass to him as my father made me the heir of the estate and my mother signed a prenup that prevented her from challenging it or having complete claim to the estate if he died until I turn 18 years old

File: white fire.jpg (115KB, 766x511px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 766x511px

>Life 4 Forces 4 Matter 4

Turn yourself into a living whirlwind of silver fire.
What can the Uratha even do to you?

>>52796142
nothing, your dumb ass just triggered the building's sprinkler system and you're now taking 1 agg/sec from the water. the Uratha can laugh at your dumb ass while they wait for you to die

>>52796189
>>52796189
>>52796189

File: witchy poo.jpg (27KB, 750x540px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 750x540px

>>52796162
It's as if you think mages melt when they get splashed.

>>52795696
Depends if they actually tried to find another way. High humanity is regretting the only thing you could have done because you didn't prevent it and wasted your life instead of becoming someone who could do more. A character behaving like it's an external set of rules they can game by satisfying conditions first is more like a 4.

>>52794259

we are, after all, good capitalists.

>>52794956

because masters always clique up with other masters, right?

>>52796777
>because masters always clique up with other masters, right?

It's most common for cabals to consist of mages of relatively comparable ability (and possibly their apprentices).

In any event, even a full cabal of adepts is terrifying. When it comes to the ability of the members of a cabal to control reality, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.