Android: Netrunner General - /anrg/

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>tfw you forget the /anrg/ bit and have to repost the thread

The MWL article has some art we've not seen before - dragging it to a new tab gives it the name Demara, which gives us what's likely (but not 100%, seeing as it looks weird) our 3rd Conman breaker - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Waldo_Demara , the man known as 'The Great Impostor' - to join Lustig and Abagnale (I was thinking we'd get Ponzi, but there you go)

>>52679970

Gooddfind. Shame on me for not making the connection, I literally re-read his bio right after we started looking fo possible con men.

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>>52680039
Eh, you had to drag the art into a new tab to make it give up the name

What it does mean is that we now only have 3 runner cards left unknown, at least in terms of name - one of which is pic related, (someone suggested as a Sneakdoor)


>>52679970
And I forgot to link to last thread, jeez, what am I doing
>>52540912

>>52680155

Next Sneakdoor?

>>52680155
>>52680529

Sneakdoor into RnD? Bit hard to have another sneakdoor without being too functionally identical to the existing one.

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>starts playing siphon whizzard 3 weeks before the new mwl

g-guys any idea how to free up 24 influence?

>>52680670

Sneakdoor from remote. Would make an interesting answer to asset spam.

>>52680801

Create The Movement of Liberation of Influence!

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>>52680155
Everyone have bad days, don't beat yourself over it.

>>52680808
I think that would be powercreeping since it is straight up better than Beta.
On the other hand, with Quest Completed rotating I see the opposite working. Running Archives to access remotes.

Hey I have been playing this game on Table Top sim quite a bit. But if I wanted to start in Paper what would be must buys / where do I start? I like Wayland as corp for the just face damage and for hacker I guess the orange one. I don't play hacker a lot.

>>52681056
>I think that would be powercreeping since it is straight up better than Beta.

You can play the game with no other remote but your scoring server, you can't play the gam without Archives. I don't really see the power creep.

You can always protect you remotes too. More ICE, less assets.

>>52680801
>siphon whizzard
You deserve it and you know it

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>>52681086
Jinteki dot net is easier to play and use than tts, just so you know.
Start with 1 core and Order and chaos deluxe box (weyland and anarchs box). From there I suggest look up what cards you like or find important and buy the packs that have those. For instance, I think Blood money and Escalation are great for what you suggest. 23 seconds include Hard Hitting News for more tagging options.

>>52681103
So anarch siphonspam is bad but criminal one is good? OK fampai

>>52681251
All spam is bad, Criminal spam is tough, Anarch spam is worse because they can also trash your assets and ICE with minimum effort.

>>52681251

Funnily enough, AS is much more dangerous in a red deck because of how easily they can get rid of ice AND do recursion at the same time.

>>52681251
Ah yes, Criminal, that faction so known for its access to recursion.

To be quite honest though, spamming most things can get very annoying very fast

>>52681289
>Ah yes, Criminal, that faction so known for its access to recursion.

It might soon enough. With rotation removing Retrieval Run and new blue options (Cambridge, Rip Deal), balance might change.

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>>52681347
Fair point, though both are a bit less abusable than anarch methods.

Rip Deal is a little bit worrying though, especially with PPVP off the MWL and SOT being non-rotating, but at least you've got to find some way to do multiaccess, like Gauntlet or whatever (especially as HQI is going away)

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>>52681489

>>52681141
What do you mean by 1 core set do I at some point have to buy more then one? Also thanks for the help

>>52682224
Only if you're hypercompetitive.

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>>52682224
FFG made it so that certain cards don't appear in full playsets in the core set. This is generally only relevant for certain factions so if you want to play Criminal or NBN you need three core sets (for Desperado and SanSan City Grid, each of which appears only once in the core set).

>>52682224

Unless you want to play criminals, you can actually get by with a single core set, this due to the existence of the championship decks which contains many of the 2-offs, and even SanSan city grids (very useful one-off).

>>52683373
I honestly think Gauntlet is a good alternative for Desperado.

>>52683526

It's pretty decent certainly, especially if glacier decks start to return in force, but even then Desp is still the console to go for most situations given the choice.

>>52683526
It's pretty decent, especially given how hard HQ is usually iced against crim.

I think pic related is decent - as long as you've got a plan, otherwise you might as well save 2c and have Reflection (I do like that crim consoles with situational/low end abilities are coming with link

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>>52684753

Is this really going to be enough to save Netrunner, or is it too little too late?

>>52684783
I reckon it might be okay.

Parasifr got nerfed to hell, the two worst political assets both got smacked, Temujin is likely to stay crim... I think it'll be okay

>>52684774
Does that still go off if there's no ice?

>>52685410
Yeah, like Caprice, 0 ice can equal 'all' of the ice

"When you pass all the ICE" is an interesting alternative to when a run is successful, isn't it?

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At least they errata-ed the MWL fast.

Good on them.

>>52687506

To offer my own counterpoint, isn't this offering too much air splitting on already existing trigger/categories for the sake of expanding options?

Is this too much complexity added for too little depth?

Now that there is a Terminal Directive release date, it should be exciting to see what the TD 'meta' is at the local shops considering its only 1 core set + TD.

>>52688819
Agree with you that its most likely too much hair splitting. While it could add for some interesting conditions, it seems like it would be too cluttering in general

>>52689025

Two weeks!

I'm really, really hype. Forbidden myself doing any proto-deck building until release to not have too much of an advantage over people that won't have that luxury for release event.

>>52682820
Does every other set have full play sets?

>>52689275

Yeah, only Core doesn't have a full playsets - some cards are one or two off.

Some would argue that made single Core better alanced, but that's another issue.

>>52689215
I'm not doing any deck building either. I've got friends who don't own the core set and we play mainly with my cards. Want to keep it fair for when i play with them. Luckily, I like Weyland and my friend likes HB, so our corp factions have already been decided.

>>52689304
Okay thanks

I haven't had a chance to play yet, just have the core set. How do expansions work? Do cards rotate out like magic? Is there an equivalent to legacy where you can play everything? Are the old expansions hard to find and jacked up in price?

>>52689602

Rotation should start in a quarter or so, when the first packet of the next cycle is released. By then the fist two cycles (Genesis and Spin) will rotate. Then every two cycle, the oldest remaining two will rotate out from the pool.

Core and the 4 big faction boxes (Creation & Control; Honor & Profit: Order & Chaos; Data & Destiny) are non rotating. Generally will pointed out as the best investment for new players.

As for Legacy, no official word from FFG, but I have a hard time imagining an officious channel not making it happen for those that want it.

>>52689458

Sorry by the way, not trying to be curt and negative, just a bit tired.

>>52689726
Cool, I'll look into getting the faction boxes and I'll take it from there. Thanks :D

>>52688819
>air splitting
Pretty sure that's Hair splitting, and no, I wouldn't say so - 'All the ice' is your last chance to get in, or to get out without it being successful - slightly relevant for the runner, important for the corp as both a late line of defence and the trigger for much more powerful retribution

>>52689786
As a relatively new player myself, the big boxes help round out a lot of cards that help make the player experience more enjoyable for each faction. They each come with a lot of additional identities that are quite fun to play with. Do a little bit of research into the four big boxes before you buy one, as each one is based around a corp and a runner, with the latest, Data and Destiny being based around NBN and some special mini-faction runners.

>>52689884

I'm pretty sure that's a typo. not like I wasn't peppering them everywhere in posts, even accidentally a full word or two on on occasion.

What can I say, I suck.

And I'm not saying you're wrong (I'm both >>52687506 and>>52688819... I'm interested in having that conversation because I don't really know where I stand on the matter right now).
If anything I'm more saying that's the role "successful run" at 4.4.originally was supposed to have, and did have. Only the explosion of both paid ability effects at 4.3 and the number of successful run triggers that each individually, and both in conjunction have congested and created risks that originally didn't exist in the game and made a new distinction needed... mostly by virtue of not being able to patch the rules and existing cards.

But is it adding yet another level of nuance to a game that is having more and more difficulty helping with fluency for the more casual crowd?

I don't know really. ill have to see it in action.

>>52689979
I'm still not sure what factions to go for. I'll probably check out my local meta and see what isn't being played much

>>52690231
I'd recommend goofing around with the core set, or buy purely based on the flavor. When I bought the first expansion I hadn't played enough of the game to figure out which faction I enjoyed the most, so I bought the Weyland/Anarch box because I thought that Weyland had the best flavor. It's a good starting point.

I really can't see a legacy format working for A:NR, since we'll likely get to the point in 4-5 years where every Corp could theoretically run 10 3/2s.

>>52690361

Hopefully the center of balance for all potential upcoming 3/2 is a lot more Merger than Astro.

Would help balance things.

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>>52690361

>implying legacy formats don't have worse balance than standard formats as a general rule across basically all CCGs

How many events with costs do you need to make including PPVPs worth it?

>>52692059

Depends, are you Kate?

As a reference, classic PPVP Kate generally had a bit more than a third of the deck as events that could benefit from PPVP.

From a pure econ standpoint, generally "only" 9 event 3 Sure Gamble, 3 Lucky Find, 3 Dirty Laundry.

And a Levy for good measure.

If you had 45 bucks to spend what are the must have sets. Aside from core?

>>52692704

I'd go with anon's advice >>52689979

Play Core. See which factions you enjoy the most, then get the box for those factions (with luck they're the same both sides).

Also do check second hand sales. 45$ may get you a decent way if you're lucky enough to find a good offer.

>>52692316
I'm Nero. Just wanted to try it out before rotation, see if it actually affects the deck in any positive manner over a third Daily Cast or Bank Job. Too bad crim doesn't have that much interesting targets for it.

>>52692879

Exploit, Feint, Inside Job, Forged Activation Order, High Stakes Job, Hostage, Legwork, On The Lam...

If you want to go into more jank territory: CBI Raid, Information Sifting, Early Bird, hell Satellite Uplink, Planned Assault, Three Steps Ahead (if you've never played it on a full turn free Temujin server along with Mobius... worth doing at least once), Early Bird, Paper Tripping (got a laugh off that one too given HHN widesread)...

Add to that the neutral targets.

Granted given how many of those are Run Events, might just keep to Public Terminal. But I don't think it's fair to say they lack interesting targets.

>>52693088
I meant in terms of changing ppvp credits into actual credits like the Sure Gamble/Dirty Laundry, but yeah you're right, turning Special Order into a free tutor atleast should be decent bang for buck. I'm going to try swapping my singleton Modded for two Peace in Our Time, hopefully the 9 - 10 credit boost will offset 5 credits for the corp, as well as the lost discount for installing.

>>52689215

Idk, even with just the spoiled cards so far, Seidr and Bios decks looks reasonably easy enough to throw together as it is, barring something insanely good in the final few unrevealed cards.

>>52692704

There is the nearly-here Terminal Directive big box that gives more options for 4/7 of the factions?

Otherwise it really depends on your choice of faction.

>>52692879

Good thing he's getting his own AA first then for some reason.

>>52697486
Definitely looking forward to that. Noticed it's already on sale on e-bay though, did the game kit already begin in the US? Or is it someone selling the cards off early?

>>52697729
It is in. Plan on using it soon, actually.

Puppetmaster deck... what would you try to run?

>>52700108
Advanceable ice, back channels, not sure if ambushes

>>52700146

I want to go with ambushes if only for the risk increase at successful run. Fun at the very least.

But beside all that, I don't really know what I want to play there... guess I'll just go the no initial plan and refine route.

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>>52700108
Mushin, maybe ambushes, little bit of advancable ice, possibly Matrix Analyser

>>52700108
>>52700146 was my first thought as well. Alternatively Trick of Light + Haarpsichord to score quick 3/2s and 2/1s after the Puppetmaster, probably EoI backup plan to get it back if they steal it, or close out with usual SanSan FA.

Is a beginner still supposed to buy the core set? I think I had heard that FFG was phasing it out, though I could have heard wrong.

>>52701432

Highly doubt the core set will be changed in the foreseeable future, especially when they suggested TD as a good second supplement to go with it.

>>52701432

Core has a lot of important cards that you definitely want to have in your deck. Do not skip.

Plus, it's a good way for total noobs to try out the game and make sure they like it before they commit to it.

>>52701500
>>52701505
good to know, thanks.

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With months of testing now, is Tracker just as hood as it seems?

I'm not sure what factions to go with. Try to sell me on your favorite one

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>>52704025
In doubt, go anarch. They are the quintessential hacker type you see in the news. They hack for fun and for justice. They blow up servers and disconnect entire nodes of the Internet with a Ddos attack using IOT devices. They are fun and in Mars they follow the No Pain No Gain philosophy that makes them dangerous, powerful, and thrilling.

>>52704276
Oooh, nice, one of the campaign-only cards

Wonder what the symbol in the name means

>>52704337
It's the first card you see when you open the box, so nothing too spoilery. Although I recognize my mistake in that I forgot to tag it as such.

>>52704509
Eh, nbd - do you have the whole thing then?

>>52704695
Nah, found an artist on instagram unboxing it. One of those snapchats that disappear after a while.

>>52704996
Just checked what his handle is, timurshevtsov if you are interested.

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>>52704996
>snapchats
That's a thing on instagram?

I've only looked externally, I don't have an account - sadly he's only put up 1 full art, the rest are just as cards

Let's be stupid about it I guess. Three Award Bait, Three Puppet Master, three Matrix Analyzer and Herald.

>>52703982

First... typoes are my mark! Don't cramp my style. Or do you indeed mean "as hood"?

Then, I find it's very good against big ICE. Comboes well with Grappling Hook (and Street Magic but that's just me), and the fact that its " Prevent the first subroutine that *would resolve* this run from resolving." means you can break any number of subroutines until you leave Tracker do its thing).

>>52704276
Even more support for that Severnius deck.

>>52705590
Definitely a typo. Bumpy roads.

>>52704025
Runner side, barring a few Criminals are super fragile to damage, and getting into servers can be expensive as their breakers are usually inexpensive. However you can start running without having anything installed, and their playstyle lets you feel smart as you hit a server, bounce off ice, then hit a different one since you know (one way or another) they can't rez the ice on that one, like a master thief planning out a bank job.

Corp side, Weyland I think has the most interesting flavour in the game. The founder, Jack Weyland, had started off by buying and selling other smaller corporations, before setting out on humanity's biggest project: a space elevator. Despite detracters and naysayers, the elevator - dubbed as Jack's Beanstalk - was successfully completed, single handedly propelled the exploration of the Moon and Mars to its current state. Nowadays, Jack himself has been ousted from Weyland, and nasty rumors about people getting killed seem to float around the corporation, but don't let that stop you from focusing the main goal: space.

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>>52707966
Weyland has that interesting dichotomy of being both hugely forward-thinking and interested in humanity's progress on the one hand, and incredibly base, money-grubbing and unimaginatively brutal on the other - very much a mixed bag

>>52704025

Anarchs are the aggressive runners going after the corp's broad state for fun and justice. If you're self destructive, if you like to trash things, keep your opponent poor and on its toes, that's the runner faction for you. Archives is their forte, making them the most opportunistic faction - you need to make those cards reach archives first after all.

Crims are the professional, meticulous runners. They're in it for the money. Their specialties include data gathering, expose, avoidance and bypass tools. Ways to get into servers they shouldn't even be allowed to pretend getting into. If you like bait and switch hit and runs, board manipulation, if you don't like to go in blind and like to be rich, they're your guys. HQ is their biggest target.

Shapers is the brute force faction. Theirs may not necessarily be the most flashy toys, but if you want to do the job, not dance around defenses, not destroy everything while painting a target non your head, they have the strongest backbone. They'll do the job, and do it right. Hitting R&D is their specialty.

>>52708523

HB I've seen described as "German Efficiency", or alternatively "second best at everything". The purple corp is the master of brain damage and click compression/manipulation. Strong economy. Good draw. Their specialty ICE (bioroids) are natively porous, but are some of the most taxing. If you like to focus on the basics, they're a very good faction.

Jinteki I like to describe as the passive-agressive faction. They have many ways to do small damage that will most of the time not threaten the runner by itself but will force hard choices down the line. They have the most ambushes and if you like your mind games, they certainly are your factions. Look out one of their signature cards: PSI-cards You'll know what to expect of them. People do see red.

NBN is the fluid faction. They like to move fast, have very strong but generally porous ICE. Specialize in traces, tags and most of the non-fatal ways of hurting the runner's board state. From trading agendas from score zones to mass trashing installed cards. They're pretty good at keeping the runner poor. If you like being a yellow bastard, you know who to chose.

Weyland can be summed up in two words: money and violence. They have the BIG damage cards, the ones that can one shot the runner in case of mistake. They have the most and best Barrier ICE. They love to play completely unsubtly. Powerful agendas that are installed face up, or their having the only 9/6 agenda in the game sum up that aspect pretty well I think. If you like to be rich beyond use, if you're willing to risk high variance just for the satisfaction of landing a meteor right where the runner lives... well, the jade color guys are your jam.

>>52708454
"Unimaginatively brutal" a typo? Interesting adverb usage otherwise.

Current Weyland is probably influenced a lot more by members of the board trying to protect their interests over humanity's progress, admittedly. Wonder if they'll ever tell us about Jack's exploits at Gagarin.

>>52708587

"Unimaginatively brutal" does fit Weyland to a T - well a W.

>>52708546

God, I forgot to mention advance-able ICE for Weyland, and on encounter ICE for NBN.

Shoot me to hide my shame.

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>>52708587
Yeah, most of Weyland's core is focused on staying where they are and protecting their interests.
Just look at their agendas, the things they're doing - most are about more money and more security, compared to the much more tech-y and innovative stuff the other corps do

And not a typo, Weyland has very simple and direct methods of dealing with problems - usually excessive amounts of money and violence.

There was something an old article about Weyland raised - it's sadly not true any more, as of either pic related or Product Recall, but it was a good point - in the world of cybernetics and brain-mapping, Weyland brings a crude, old-fashioned firearm and shoots you.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/1/13/make-your-money-work-for-you/

I'm leaning towards criminals and weyland. Thanks for the overviews everybody

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>>52708987

Hope you have a good time with the game. Have fun, don't worry about the paper bag.

>>52708931
Too bad the "get money from doing everything" angle has been vastly outdone by HB, specifically EtF and Advanced Assembly Lines, which can *gain* money and board state while scoring agendas. Weyland still sports the best in your face audacity not found in any other faction though.

>>52709399
They have sacrifice and audacity, but unfortunately not success.

>>52709451
Heh.

I'm kind of tempted to make a no-remote naked agenda scoring deck now. Operation econ, Stinson, just need good punishment tools.

>>52708987

Looks like the incoming Terminal Directive big box would be awesome for you after the first core.

Ironically (hopefully) much better then their own original big boxes respectively.

>>52711545
Is that another core expansion or something else?

>>52711597

Its essentially a Big Box expansion with a legacy campaign component. The campaign itself was touted to be playable with just TD and a single core set, which should ideally attract new players into the scene.

>>52711872
Have they announced yet if those cards are going to rotate out eventually or is it like a new core expansion?

>>52712033
They haven't announced if the cards will be rotating but most people doubt it. On top of that, the cards wouldn't rotate for a few years, so you would get plenty of competitive play out of them.

>>52712033

No official announcements if the big box cards will ever be rotated, and even if that were the case, TD will be last in line regardless, easily several years down the road.

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>>52709399
>which can *gain* money and board state while scoring agendas
Not from scoring agendas, but I see your point - though Weyland got in on the board state stuff with pic related

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>>52709451
Well you say that

>>52704276

Wonder how useful it would actually be though? Presumably not much Jinteki stuff in core directive decks, and most programs, especially critical ones, tend to be installed asap.

>>52705590

Campaign-only card though.

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>>52716372
I didn't notice it was "from your grip" at first - I think it'll mainly for if Weyland is dripping meat damage on you (and seeing as one of the store event objectives (for when you're playing a cut down version at a FLGS) is killing the runner, HB might have a bit more anger in there as well), which they might be doing more of with the likes of Mr. Stone and K.P. Lynn

>>52716372
>Campaign-only

Totally missed that. Probably for the better too.

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>>52717129
Yeah, it'll be a thing to look out for in most spoilers, especially runner ones - as >>52680155 points out, there's 3 runner cards left, and none are neutral - there's 1 shaper program (18), 1 shaper hardware/event (15), and 1 criminal resource (11)

>>52717345

Probably a good sign that it's time to stop looking at spoilers, I don't want much more of the campaign stuff spoiled.

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>>52717600
Corpside you should be fine, but yeah, there's not much left for the runners - those 3, the Conman Fracter and SYN Attack

>>52704509
So wait, if this is the first card you see when you open the box, what does that make the detective resource? I'm curious as to why they would have multiple campaign only cards in the open.

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>>52718100
I don't know, the corner's cut off.

Anyone got the german pdf, that might have her number visible?

Also, do we want to be putting yellow diamond cards behind spoilers?

>>52683611

Hey man, don't underestimate Logos. If you're playing less "aggressive" criminal and more "plan and strike for maximum damage" criminal Logos opens up some pretty brutal options.

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>tfw when Jintki is down so you use the mirror, but you only get a sifr-wizard and you're playing as weyland

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>>52714895
Ah, Kraken, you're like Prey - you would be cool and unique, but Cutlery exists (though really, Kraken was just too hard to use, which is a shame)

>>52721411

I liked it a lot in Leela.

>>52718320

I seem to remember mentions of it being campaign only.

>>52718100
Thinking back about it, I think I misjudged the snapchat video. It looked like an unboxing because the camera followed how the guy opened an asmodee box, took the TD box out, opened it, took the rulebook out of the way, and the cards were there, ready for the shot.
It isn't hard to believe that the artist staged all the process to show his cards in it. Taking a closer look it says R2.8. Which probably means Runner Set 2, card 8.

>>52723312
Could be, it is indeed the guy's art on the card too. I would've said it'd be dickish of him to spoil cards just to show off his art, but the card itself doesn't really spoil anything I suppose. Of note is Evidence Collection is C1.4, or possibly Corporation Set 1, Card 4, instead of Card 1. It could be Card 1 Set 4, but that wouldn't make much sense.

>>52716372
>Wonder how useful it would actually be though?

I've been thinking... do we have to this as a hint that, conversely, we're bound to see pretty aggressive/proactive ways for the corp to do damage in campaign cards?

>>52725819

Well, of note this does stop Skorpios from sniping breakers out of hand with random Snare!s.

>>52725962

I agree. Preventing Skorpios abuse seems to be the aim of that one.

>>52726022
Wouldn't it depend on whose turn it is when the damage is dealt since it's a simultaneous trigger?

>>52727158

Unless there *is* more pro-active damage options in TD, I don't think we're going to see much damage done during the corp's turn (PSF becomes quite something else with that ID now that I think about it; especially in that context).

What option do we have so far? Neural EMP, PSF, Scorched Earth? That later being unlikely to be used *not* to kill. Adding what we've seen of TD: Mr Stone + Posted Bounty (again unlikely not to be used for a kill), SEA Source or Data Raven (power counter).

>>52727249

There's also 2adv junebugs? Seidr might be trying for those if the player wants to attempt the flatline objective.

>>52729460
Mason on RnD + Snare in Seidr might actually be pretty strong, since to trash Mason you'd have to get through the Snare as well. It's only once per turn, but with enough ice Mason would sap away your clicks anyway. He might make for a valuable import into Weyland decks I think, especially with the synergy to Prisec/Snare.

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>>52727249
>Unless there *is* more pro-active damage options in TD
I mean, looking at the themes at least, it seems pretty likely

>"So, what is it then that makes your drones so special, Mr. Hayes?" The man from the upper levels snatched one out of the air, where it was humming though the test course.

>"Of course, Mr...", Hayes panted. "I'm sorry, I believe I did not understand your name."

>"I did not give it", said the man from the upper level. "The drones."

>"Yes, well", Hayes turned around as if he could find support or inspiration in the virtual diagrams above his shoulders. He found nothing, took a deep breath and turned back around to the nameless man with the hard face, who was wearing a ten thousand credits suit and completely unnecessary sunglasses. "It's not the drones themselves that are special. It's their AI. We use a divided layout for a modular neural network that uses Fuzzy Logic, to..."

>"Let's skip the technical stuff." The man from the upper level wasn't really from there. He worked in a different corporation, one that was higher in the food chain of the Weyland Consortium. Hayes did not understand how all of this worked, just that he had to tell this nameless man from an unknown division everything he wanted to hear. And apparently he wasn't interested in technical details.

>"Ah, okay. Well. Hmmm." He scratched his nose. Swallowed again. "They share the job of thinking. And together they are, well, something like a huge brain."

>"So, the more there are of them, the smarter they become?" The man from the upper level did not wait for Hayes' answer. "And what if a drone that is thinking about something relevant to the mission is destroyed?"

>"Well, there is a certain redundancy of course, but mainly the type of thinking is very flexible. If it forgets something relevant, it can remember it very quickly." This was fine. As long as he talked just about the project, it was all fine.

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>>52731679
>"The advantage is that our drones can be much smarter than those of our competitors, which gives us supremacy on the market for combat application." The man from the upper level shifted around in his chair. Hayes lost his train of thought. "Hmmm... of course there are civil applications as well."

>The man from the upper level leaned forward. "Tell me the truth. Is this shared drone brain something like a bioroid brain?"

>Hayes could breathe again. "I am not sure if someone outside of Haas-Bioroid really knows how bioroid brains work. But as far as I understand, they are created with a brain mapping and strictly conditioned with the Directives. Our system is more fluid and customizable, not bound to the original programming." He allowed himself a short smile. "If we can bypass the technical difficulties, our swarm brain will be smarter than a bioroid."

>"Smarter than a bioroid." The man from the upper level let go of the humming drone, which immediately joined the swarm again, slightly staggering. "Wouldn't that be something? Say, hypothetically speaking, somebody builds a bioroid that works exactly like you describe. No directives. Adaptable brain. Able to create new links and spontaneously evolve."

>The man from the upper level leaned back again and placed the tips of his fingers together. "Hypothetically speaking, how valuable would such a bioroid be to your research?"

>"Uh... hypothetically?" Hayes swallowed. "Very useful."

>The man from the upper level smiled with the charm of a razor blade.

>>52729460
>There's also 2adv junebugs?

Like any ICE damage, it would happen during the runner's turn.

>>52730465

Idk, if the runner suspects he might be there, they are more likely to draw up and install everything before going for RnD anyway before their 3rd click.

Vs Seidr, most would try really hard not to spend clicks to deny that ability from firing as well.

>>52733675
Mason triggers Seidr's ability too, since it's either spends or loses. Drawing up and running last click still leaves the Snare tag as well, unless Aaron/Decoy/NACH.

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>>52688819
4 MB for a MWL list is way too lazy.

>>52733948

Well, going before third click to get rid of that tag would be a good idea regardless.

And indeed as you mentioned, running last click is generally less of a good idea now.

>>52734366

I don't know why their pdfs are so big in general... surely, there can't be hidden data in there?

(in case of doubt, always follow paranoia; poor optimization is a boring answer anyway.)

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Next data pack.

I'm so hyped.

>>52735454
How often do you expect that one to fire?

>>52734660

Their pdfs aren't flattened. You can open them up in Adobe Illustrator and pull them apart.

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>>52735480
Trace punishment and link runners. I see it.

>>52734507
And again, you'll lose that 4th click due to Mason. I'm starting to think he might be a bit too good, though we do have a few cards that counter him. There is a way for Mason to not fire though, and that is to let ice subs fire, but tough luck if they're all ETRs.

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>>52735649
>>52703982 can help a bit, as can things like inside job and what have you, but yeah, Mason isn't to be fucked with

>>52736916

Looks like Steve will get some mileage out of the Swindler suite's secondary abilities then.

>>52737763
oh yeah, that's a point

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Weird very tight match last game - came down last click run on the scoring server with the runner on 6 and the corp on 4 but clearly scoring a big agenda

Was Chronosteki (with Chronos and Braintrust) vs a weird whizzard - was using Brain Cage, Ekomind and Ramujan-reliant 550 BMI, a true battle of the brains

Final run was a really tense one - he beat the mind game (that would otherwise have dropped him into a Snare, or double stacked cobras), but then didn't have enough money to get (recently re-filled) Cuj.0 to fight Komianu, so lost all but 1 MU... meaning his endless hunger was lost and the lotuses stopped him cold

>>52735480

I'm thinking I'll slot it in a link/heartbeat shell.

Any sentry tracer, any ping damage sentry can lead to a fire. Per run. Veritas? Yes please.

I'll see how things go from here. As with the Severnius deck it's more that I want to play it. That looks fun and interesting to pilot and play against more than any pretense of it being powerful.

We'll see where testing leads. Hell, I'd enjoy mixing the two if I thought it made any sense: draw ten cards via Duggar and then trash as much off the top of R&D by letting a Komainu fire seems like such a cool move.

>>52741192

That's the stuff.

Ramujan-reliant 550 BMI? Color me interested.

>>52735500
One of these days, they're going to sneak spoilers into an oversized pdf and nobody's going to notice. Hopefully they're fun enough to do that.

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>>52741360
Yeah.
Think they were to protect the programs on his brain, and they were effective against 1-net pings, but he never had more than one out at a time. They also helped with brain cage

Sadly I DC'd not long after winning and didn't get to discuss the deck

>>52741444

Haven't they already?

>>52731679
>>52731692

Would be fascinating to see if there is any canon(ish) follow up to this incident.

>>52744543
Something that's better than the piece of technology that singlehandedly that is the main centerpiece of the setting it is in is definitely a game changer. Wonder how the hivemind tech could be used in things besides drones. Maybe that's what advanceable ice is: whenever you advance them you're adding a significant piece of the hivemind, which is what bumps up their strength and changes how they work. The technology is still new so there isn't any way to automatically advance them, they all need to be improved manually.

>>52744543

I hope there is. Would be sad that TD ends up just back to the status quo.

Would pave the way for some cool event cycle post Mars too.

>>52747128

Dear god... ICE/Assets/Upgrades whose effects/power are dependent on the total number of advancement counters on all cards. Would need some careful balance consideration.

>>52747365
It doesnt need to be "per advancement token", it could be per piece of ice advanced.

>>52747128

Well now, if you are talking about...sentient AI...

[spoilers]APEX Hungers.[/spoilers]

>>52749063
I don't know if the term "sentient AI" is applicable in the Android universe anymore, unless sentient takes the meaning that they are unrestricted by directives or conditioning.

Reject any argument made for the sake of practicality!

Ridiculous or bust.

>>52749636 was addressed to >>52747700, but destiny guided my hand in making it a life affirming principle.

>>52741328
I'm curious if this could accelerate a Fear the Masses deck enough to make it viable. Or do you just go full overdraw and Au Revoir and jack out every time you run that big sentry and become a !not DLR degenerate?

>>52749769

Hadn't thought about Au Revoir... interesting one.

My mind definitely went over Fear the Masses with the Severnius deck... totally willing to try to slot Trope, get rid of all my deck and then get only the FtMs back.

Done it in other shells to some decent results. Here I think it could work. Between this and a well timed Levy to rearm Severnius, could be a real killer.

So I've been trying out a new Val build post mwl and it turns out... Itinerant Val vs. Cybernetics Division is the worst thing.

>>52749975
I'm tempted to plop Polyhistor in this lind of deck for the extra draw at the cost of a "milled" card to HQ. My guess is that slots and influence will prevent your from keep the corp poor enough for that extra card to be a burden.

Persephone in shaper with Maya and Equivocation is also an interesting R&D manipulation train.

Between this and the Fisk tools we're getting, I like the control denial approach we're seeing rather than raw access and steal tools.

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>What is the coolest division of HB and why is it Custom Biotics?

>>52755273

Definitely Cybernetics Division.

>>52750894

Naaa, it's very fun. Love that match up.

>>52751688
>Between this and the Fisk tools we're getting, I like the control denial approach we're seeing rather than raw access and steal tools.

Yeah, as I've been saying since The Turning Wheel, I'm really digging the replacement options to strict multi-access offered.
Seems to me like the designers clearly identified the issues posed by multi-access and tried to give equivalences that would foster more game.

>>52756150

I mean until everybody's stuck with a max hand size of one via dueling currents.

Though it was definitely interesting. Lots of interplay and counterplay but man is being stuck on one card in hand awful.

>>52751688
>Persephone in shaper with Maya and Equivocation is also an interesting R&D manipulation train.

Interesting idea, but from playing Maya+Equivocation in Jesminder, I'm thinking adding Persephone would be overkill. I much prefer System Outage, or something that give me ways to attack from another angle.

Still, worth a try. Will keep a tab no that one.

Hope the rest of the spoilers of TD will appear within 72 hours...

>>52763353
Why that time?

>>52764694

Don't spoilers usually appear about a week before street date? So hopefully something might appear by this Thurs...

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Taking a power nap and waiting for the spoilers to come.

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>>52766255
I played a power nap deck before. Pretty underwhelming sadly. It was jank with pancakes and starlight fundation, plus a lot of doubles.

>>52769331

Full double-events starlight deck with MaxX as amusing.

Probably the richest I've ever been in Anarch.

>>52766255
Saw that used the other day really well, didn't go overboard but still got a lot of value out of it

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>>52757503
Yeah, there they've really seen how it works, and rotation even means they get to implement their changes without too much of an issue - the worst one there is Medium, and there's definitely built-in answers to that (though multiples when R&D blown wide open by ice trashing isn't fun).

>>52773400

Between this and the Howard replacement, I'm hoping the game can slow down and give support to less scoring-efficiency focused agenda selection.

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Hey, nerds

My college bookstore was having a sale on board games and I've been looking at getting into Netrunner for a while so on an impulse I bought three data packs:
>Opening Moves
>Fear and Loathing
>Mala Tempora
Only cost me $15 because they were on sale. I have no idea if that was a good deal or not, though.

Anyway, I know that I'm probably going to need at least one core set if I want to keep playing, but is it possible at least with the cards I have now to make a few shitty decks just to get the hang of building and playing the game? That's really all I'm looking for at this point.

>>52774910

You're not going have enough agendas to make decks (you need 20-21 agenda points for a 45-49 corporation deck). A single core *is* going to be an necessary investment.

>>52775137
Fuck.

>>52775169
With a core you will though - and (some) core set cards are still super relevant and strong as hell, it has the instructions, etc.

>>52774910
And the tokens of course!

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Did anyone ever use this for asset spam

Anyone have a good criminal deck using the core set and the core expansions?

>>52777232

I played against a deck that did... impractical, but interesting match up. Some cool piloting from the runner. Used Hacktivist Meeting in conjunction.

From that experience, I don't think it's so much a tool against asset spam as much as it's one against rush/NA.

>>52777446

By core expansions do you mean big boxes?

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>>52777232
Ha ha...ha, why yes fellow anonymous poster. I too have used this completely obvious solution to a problem. Completely honest. Ignore the picture. It lies. I swear. Totally.

Now I'm considering trying it.

>>52777523
Yeah, the ones that don't rotate out.

I am new to this game. If I wanted to play fast/aggro decks. As the corp just doing face damage and as the runner just breaking all the corps stuff and taking it off the board.

I don't have a decklist on hand, and it's hard to recommend anything to someone not knowing when/where/how the deck is going to be played, but I think you should give that one a look:

https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/11014/the-solution-worlds-3rd-place-runner-deck-

You have most of the cards, can replace the majority of the missing ones with equivalents without too much difficulty. Might be considered bit out of sync with what is being played today competitively, but I think it's a solid deck to learn one side of the faction.

>>52777793

As runner, definitely check Anarchs. Corp-wise, and bit more difficult to make a choice, but do give Jinteki and Weyland cards a look.

>>52777793
Fast corp decks would be NBN who try to score out before the runner can even respond. They're not damage dealers though, they just score out quickly, though some decks can kill as well. Weyland kind of tries to score out before the runner can setup, and can usually kill the runner if they make a mistake.

I wish supermodernism was still a thing

What's the jankest card of this cycle?

>>52783073

By which you mean Mars?

Tough one... So far, Corp side, Sacrifice looks like it could be it. I love Stand Off, but I'm afraid most people will just play it ultra-conservatively. Seidr Adaptive Barrier could appeal to big server lovers.

Runner side is harder. Loads of great, playable, jank anarch side (Severnius, Persephone, Counter Surveillance) but then shapers have Inversificator.

Where does Customized Secretary land on the jank scale?

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>>52783073
Red Sands?
Severnius looks like there could be some wacky shit you could do, and there's a few cards with cool potential, but there's a fair bit of meh stuff - things like Water Monopoly, Nerine 2.0

Ben Musashi protecting Obokata Protocol looks like it'd be brutal, and AgInfusion looks fun (pic related combos really nicely)

>>52784600

Hadn't considered IDs... then yeah, Aginfusion has a *lot* of potential.

>>52784793
Yeah, looks cool, especially in this meta that shits on big expensive ice anyway

Okay, I've got a core and the pack JHow is in, and today I wandered into the closest thing to a FLGS that's not about an hour away for me - they had very little, to the point they were giving away old game night kit promos, but they had Democracy and Dogma (aka the Political pack) and The Source (aka Oh shit it's IG) - am I a bad person for getting both?

Will I be a bad person when I go back next week and probably get the other awesome promo when I buy Kala Ghoda (the 3rd of the 4 packs they have) for Museum/Temple?

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>>52787621
The museum got errataed, the actors are in the MWL, and the deck isn't that oppressive without Hostile Infrastructure. So the other players still have a chance.

>>52787621
Only if you play Prison IG against everyone, all the time. Though I guess you're pretty strapped for options corp side, and that's before applying the new MWL. What's the fourth pack?

>>52788030
Also, no Shocks to guard archives.

>>52787621
Do you have Honor and Profit for those Komainus?

>>52781703
Supermurderism still works for me.
...until Aaron hits the table.

>>52679821
How's the game going? I pretty much haven't played since the au revoir non-interacting deck became viable.
Is it still around
How's ken siphon decks doing?

Are there any basic deck building guidelines? Something similar to magic having 20 lands and a decent mana curve.
Like how many breakers on average you should have and stuff like that?
I've just been playing with the starter box's pre-built decks

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>>52789964
Au Revoir non-interactive? AND VIABLE? Are you from a different dimension?
Ken Siphon should still be doing just as fine as it was back then. Since in that regard it hasn't changed all that much.
New interesting Run events include Injection Attack, Cold Read and Mad Dash. Some run enhancer of notice: Temujin Contract (Best Crim econ card, a 20 credits bank job), Gauntlet (Crim new HQ multiaccess, console to access 1 additional card for each piece of ICE you break in front of HQ), and Bhagat (Anarch Connection, trash top card of R&D the first time a succesful run on HQ is made).

>>52791547
Depends on the deck. As a general rule I try to include at least 12 econ cards in the deck, and depending if you have access to program tutors I'd say between 3 to 6 icebreakers, sometimes up to 9 if we include AI breakers. Take a look at decks in netrunnerdb and see if something looks nice for you. For instance, I really like The Digital Ascetic in the front page right now.

>>52792280
>Au Revoir non-interactive? AND VIABLE? Are you from a different dimension?
Must be because I remember the massive shitfit around Turing wheel au revoir

>>52791547
A lot of times this can be subject to your playstyle and what you want to do. I usually have 6 breakers because I know I suck at the game and like some redundancy/speed, but not all decks are going to work that way. I also tend to go heavy on ICE, with 15 in most decks because I never want to be lacking in it. (Unless maybe Jinteki) I like the warm, fuzzy feeling it gives me on the table or as a possible dead access.

The closest thing I can think of is almost every deck will have Sure Gamble or Hedge Fund. But look at netrunnerDB and see what people are using and how often those cards come up. I remember clicking around and thinking "this Daily Casts thing comes up a lot" and tried it out. Just don't try to go full hammer party or Eater/DLR from the start...I made that mistake and it wasn't great.

Also, Darwin is a trap.

>>52791547

As anon said, really depends on building and play-styles; as a guideline I generally advise runners to have 1/3 of econ cards and for corps around 1/4 for a new deck.

Then scale accordingly to testing results.

Breakers, tournament people used to go very streamlined, with sometimes even only a single copy of each breaker and strong tutoring. Nowadays, they tend to build with resilience in mind, and generally two copies of each and AI support.

I say the later is probably a good to test things.

The one thing you're probably going to want to learn, mor than strict card guidelines is to have a plan. What servers do you want to focus on? How and why? Do you have a back up plan and what is it?

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>>52792718
>Darwin is a trap.

You shut you whore mouth! Darwin is AWESOME!!!

>>52789964

Which version are we talking about? The CT one?

>>52788044
Fear the masses

>>52793292
>that pic
>these feels

I tried for so long...

Brb imma go make a Darwin deck

>>52794270

I liked it in that Hivemind deck.

>>52794403
I was thinking Hivemind, surge, and fester since his biggest weakness is how long it takes to ramp up, and the corp should have to pay for everything they do to him.

>>52792718

I wouldn't say that. Darwin's fine, but it t needs a very particular deck to work. Alongside Hivemind though? It gets pretty crazy.

>>52794463

It doesn't really take that long, honestly.

The builds I run it with use Progenitor/Hivemind and VBG. Even the turn after a purge you can have it back up to four strength and still make runs. Add e3 to taste.

Noise Hacker Extraordinaire

Event Event (9)
3x Day Job
3x Déjà Vu
3x I've Had Worse

Hardware Hardware (4)
2x Cyberfeeder
2x Grimoire

Resource Resource (12)
2x Aesop's Pawnshop ●●●●
3x Daily Casts
3x Earthrise Hotel
1x Hades Shard ●
3x Virus Breeding Ground
Icebreaker Icebreaker (1)
1x Darwin

Program Program (19)
3x Cache ●●●
3x Chakana ●●●●● ●
3x Djinn
1x Gorman Drip v1 ●
1x Gravedigger
1x Hivemind
1x Imp
2x Incubator
1x Medium
3x Progenitor

>>52774910
All pretty good packs, try and pick up the core set on amazon, it's not too expensive on there. As of this post, it is $32 sans shipping.

Alright. for anyone who cares, finally have a "final" version of my smoke deck, which requires no money in the late game. You are quite literally an internet celebrity, have no money, make tons of cash.

Ele "Smoke" Scovak: Cynosure of the Net

Event (15)
3x Diesel
3x Dirty Laundry
2x Indexing
1x Mad Dash
2x Modded
3x Sure Gamble
1x The Maker's Eye

Hardware (6)
2x Clone Chip
2x R&D Interface
2x The Gauntlet ●●

Resource (10)
2x Beth Kilrain-Chang
3x Daily Casts
3x Net Mercur
2x Temüjin Contract ●●●●

Icebreaker (3)
1x Houdini
1x Paperclip ●●●
1x Switchblade ●●

Program (6)
3x Cloak
3x Self-modifying Code

>>52795028
That deck looks like a lot of fun actually... I might actually bring that to my FLGS the next time we play netrunner.

>>52797510

Why not go all-in on indexing + mad dash/FTE? You don't really need the pricy RDI/ME then.

>>52798626
Hadn't really considered that yet. RDI/ME is great if you want to make a run and don't have indexing or mad dash yet and just want to poke around / get some credits on net mercur. Modded really does help reduce the cost on the RDI

>>52798815
I think that's why this cycle introduced Equivocation, Top Hat and Data Breach

>>52799880
I'm of the personal opinion that Smoke needs all the stealth credits she can get, so running equivocation (at least right now) isn't on my radar. However, in a post-rotation world, I think that a mill-style smoke based around entering R&D on the cheap with medium and equivocation would work wonders. Top Hat is just a bit too random for my taste

>>52800185
Top Hat random? How so? It's no different from Medium. You run with Equivocation, if you see an agenda, you steal it, if you don't, you force the draw and access the 5th (actually the sixth) card. Next click you run and do the same, you are checking the top with Equivocation while accessing the bottom with Top Hat. Last click you check the next card the Corp is going to draw. To keep the lock.

>>52800264
I've been misreading the text on equivocation this whole time... that might explain why I had mixed feelings on it. Maybe in my sleep deprived state I read it as "you may reveal and force the corp to draw that card"

>>52799880
Yeah, they're definitely going for more interesting stuff than just 'access moar', which is good I think

Viral Marketing
Agenda - Neutral
3 advance 4 points

Until Viral Marketing is scored or stolen, the top card of RnD must be revealed at all times.

>>52800635
It needs more work, as it is, it doesn't work with the actual framework of thr rules

>>52800635

Make it 4/3 and when scored or stolen the card on top of R&D is always visible?

>>52802574
I'm thinking, always visible might be a bit too strong. At the start of the Runner turn it is revealed the top card seems better.

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>>52800264
Plus System outage for extra cool points.

>>52802937

Seems fair. Was just rebounding on the original design really.

>>52801429
Yeah, needs something like Adam's directive choosing timing to reveal that the card is in the deck. And forgot a limit 1 card per deck.

>>52802574
>>52802937
The initial idea was mostly to put a high point agenda with a significant drawback, that is the corp's always open RnD. Always knowing the next card on RnD should open up interesting options, like drawing when you shouldn't just to get the topdeck agenda out.

A rewrite:

"Viral Marketing
Agenda - Neutral
3 advance 4 points

After IDs are revealed, reveal this card from your deck.

While Viral Marketing is not in either the runner's or the corp's score area, both player's IDs gain "0 credits: Reveal the top card of RnD."

Limit 1 per deck."

I do like the idea of a 4/3 that reveals the top card at the start of the runner turn when scored or stolen though, pretty strong drawback while not being unmanageable, and is a decent scoring option over other 5/3s, while not being a default choice like 3/2s.

>>52803747

To be honest, I just really don't like the idea of a 3/4 to begin with. Being able to win the game with two NA/FA-able agendas is way too good by itself.

Very limiting design-wise. Makes cards like with multiple-draw and draw filtering effects a lot more dangerous (Sensie Actor Union for one).

>>52805605
Oh shit, I read it like an Improved Protein Source (4/3, when scored or stolen, the runner gains 4c). Yeah, a 3/4 is a big nono.

>>52808311

Looks nice. Still really weirded out by the bad pub requirement.

I guess some of the cards we haven't see yet yet for TD will deal some. Else only Weyland can deal with the requirement.

Makes me kinda hopeful for interesting new bp options actually.

>>52808311
I wish I had a TD event near. Those alt arts look sick.

>>52805605
Yeah, hence the limit 1 per deck and the always revealed RnD. Probably reveal before draw to get around any multi-draw. Not going to push this one too much though, since I agree it would be more bad than good.

>>52808311
Who will be starting off their campaign during the event? I'd rather just play normally with TD cards and event objectives honestly.

>>52810255
>I'd rather just play normally with TD cards and event objectives honestly.

Yeah, that's been the problem in enlisting people. I'm thinking I'll just postpone the event till a few weeks after the release.

Will give people an option to play the game again once done with it.

If that can be managed.

>>52808311
>The part about participants buying TD in the event.

Knowing my LGS's, it'll be sold the fuck out before hand and they won't have copies for the event.

Because all of them are dicks.

>>52812180

Couldn't people pre-order with intent to participate in the event?

>>52810255
>>52812142

If the remaining spoilers appear within the next few days, there should be plenty of time to throw together decent enough decks before the event.

Shouldn't take too much time to add in campaign only stuff during the day itself I reckon.

>>52814467
More of a problem is getting the same partner to play the campaign with post event really, especially if you come without a planned partner. Deckbuilding itself shouldn't be a problem even on the day.

>>52814871
I know Damon gets flak for "blaming the players", but the onus really is on the competitive players to foster a welcoming environment for players new and old. It *is* partly FFG's fault for releasing terribly balanced cards, but encouraging play of those cards despite resulting in Negative Player Experience is on the players. It's telling that among the cries of banned cards and for an MWL update not many said "hey, let's just not play degenerate decks eh?" Instead we get a new Friends Prison deck almost within a day after the update.

>>52815112
The worst part for me is that I loved IG and Gagarin design for horizontal play (nowadays called asset spam), and now this type of decks are frown upon because Prison decks are a thing.

>>52815112
Definitely, it doesn't matter how friendly the community is if everyone just play Prison decks and Whizzard things. It's just not fun and turns people to play kitchen table games with close friends instead of gathering and meeting new players.
On that line, would a ban/restricted list help to create a non-competitive community?

>>52816605
Bans/restricted lists are for the competitive players, not the non-competitive. The latter naturally avoid any "broken" cards in favor of fun/jank anyway, or use them in weird or less optimal ways like Political Dealings RP or Bird Breakers Sifr.

>>52814871

Definitely echoes my own take on the competitive scene and the competitive ethos in general.

I think it's a testament to how good the game is - and how well the designers have been doing their job overall - that the game (at least locally, I don't know how things are elsewhere) survived the competitive contraction phase.

I've seen that cycle go for many games, but generally the non-competitive players just stop playing altogether when the game reaches that competitive over-focus stage.
Here most still do. There's just been a self-imposed segregation.

That being said, I do think he's brushing some of the designer's (or company) mistakes on the wayside.

OK... stupid, crazy idea time, but given I'm at my wit's end with poor Khan... Caïssa Khan!

12 influence is going to be hell...

>>52818356
2 deep red, 3 knights, 2 rooks is the best I can think.
Or maybe just Rooks, pawns, and deep red, to recur rooks while derezzing with Raptors.

>>52818356
Assuming two Temujins, you can fit in 2 Deep Reds and 2 Pawns, then 1 of each of the other 3. No real recursion for them though, which will be a problem.

It poses an interesting rules question though: can you still trigger the click ability during a run with Deep Red installed?

>>52818477
Scratch the Pawns, just remembered only Knight works with her ability. Could be interesting, maybe in tandem with Brahman? Or you could just Rebirth.

>>52818445
>>52818477
>>52818503

Every time I forget Bishop is 2 influence, until next I try to build some Caïssa deck out of faction. Why it's 2 when Datasucker is only one I'll never know (in all probability: they learned from their mistake). Too bad, could have been decent support for the birds.

>It poses an interesting rules question though: can you still trigger the click ability during a run with Deep Red installed?

Yup you can, there's a whole deck build around that (Exile's Street Chess).

Anyway, I like the idea of Knight with Khan's ability. Caïssa in general favors the early game hyper aggression she seems built for... I'll probably work something from an old B&E set up I had made for her and adapt.

No illusion it's going to do great, but might offer some cool match up this weekend.

>>52818503
Even if her ability only works with Knight, Rook synergy with Raptors are interesting. And raptors do synergies with her ability.

>>52815420

As an old DLR fan, I know that feeling all too well.

>>52815112
Players who want to optimize and seek efficiency will always exist, and the designers know this - I think the key is to make sure that 'real netrunner' is the most effective way to play in general, and that anything which is more efficient has some effective counterplay/tech against that people would likely include anyway - ironically, while I think they're both overpowered, Marron for couner-kill (especially BN kill) and Temujin to encourage real netrunner are decent examples.
A more balanced one would be Sports Hopper.

Some kind of anti-asset spam event would be nice, maybe along the lines of 'make a run. If you are successful you may make a run on a server you have not ran on this turn.' - possibly with some way to keep doing it until you make an unsuccessful run (which could give a tag) or choose not to run (not sure how to word it) - might need to be a double, but I'd put it with low inf in crim as a way to deal with asset spam - combo it with desperado, and shaper could 3x MOpus then hit everything

>>52818965
You kind of just described Doppelganger, in a limited way because "infinite" runs sounds like a bad idea.
But really, we have a million ways to punish asset spam. Criminals in particular are specially apt for this.

>>52819113
Yeah, probably a bit busted, I just like the idea of a really long run chain (imagine the three steps ahead!)

>>52819196
You can get a lot with 6 Out of the Ashes, Sinclair, Doppelganger, in a Dyper deck.

Whats the consensus on the 2015 World champion decks?
Do they play well against each other?
me and my buds love the game but rarely have the time to play let alone build decks.

>>52818965
>Players who want to optimize and seek efficiency will always exist
True. And I realize the difficulty of self-policing potentially broken cards/decks/interactions will have gaps, not to mention the terrible feeling when you restrict yourself from playing said thing, only to ever find opponents who abuse it during a tournament. When said efficiency is actively degrading the community however (or atleast the competitive side), surely a minor boycott isn't impossible.

>>52819245
Both are strong decks of course, but against each other, as the corp you're sort of forced to play a singular playstyle: rush agendas out before the runner can setup their DLR and trash RnD. The runner has a lot more interesting choice points (when to DLR, when to run, when to contest a score, etc.), but as the corp you can't really do most of your tricks.

I'm actually wondering if the 2016 CtM deck will do well against DLR Valencia.

>>52819534
Yeah, definitely would be an issue, and it's hard to keep the main thrust of the game the 'best' way to play while also encouraging alternative strategies and introducing new mechanics.

I feel going super wide on assets and going super glacier should both be options that give you a good chance, but that optimum play should be somewhere in between - if you go deep into one strat you get some games where you dominate, but you open yourself to defeats that a more conventional play wouldn't have

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Random question to bump with - I'm thinking of doing a custom card thing, and I'm thinking of doing it based on Atlantica - the megacity that's spread about the Atlantic coast of Europe - as you might guess from Global Food Initiative's art, it's not doing so hot - a big contrast to, say, the thriving Mumbad

Is this of any interest to anyone?
Or would something/somewhere else be more captivating?
And is there anything that people would particularly like to see?

>>52822667
I'm not a fan, sorry. The idea of a megacity crossing the atlantic ocean sounds interesting though.

>>52822667

Hmmm...

Arthur. 8 Credits neutral one influence Unique

Grail

When the Runner encounters Arthur, you may reveal up to 4 grail ice from HQ. For the remainder of this run, Arthur gains the subroutines of the revealed ice in the order of your choice, and their subtypes.

Str:5

-> End the run unless the runner takes one brain damage.

Anyway, always interested to see the things people come with for the game. Always inspiring. And I wouldn't mind seeing more from Europe.

>>52818965
>Players who want to optimize and seek efficiency will always exist, and the designers know this

Certainly, but then is it the designer's job to satisfy those players to the exclusion of others? Especially given the whole process by which they assess the game is self-defeating*, and giving them what they ask will just as often backfire (see the Anarch issue over time). And let's face it, the issue isn't just efficiency, it's also interactivity.

And really, I'm not saying pleasing all player-bases is impossible, but it is a *daunting* task given the desire vectors of each group set don't align perfectly. And the hyper competitive types *are* a minority, despite their reach and influence on the community.

Just look at how hard it was for the designers to create new/different ways to play the game - to expand the field, something that, as much I love "real netrunner", was needed for the development and survival of the game - how much Lukas has been deemed too conservative, and then when he tried to take a bit more risks in Mumbad it was seen as a catastrophe.

By which I mean, there *were* - *are* -design issues, but they too will always exist in a game that young. Then add the issue of management meddling. And the realities of the production chain.

*: you'll tell me "just give them a balanced game". But that's the thing, the game is not robust enough right now for that kind of balance. People looking for a breaking point will always find it.

(Just rebounding on your post, please don't take it as an attack to it, not the aim).

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The face of your opponent when he thought he had just has the window to score...

I love that card. Not overly powerful, but no one ever expects it.

>>52826280
That actually sounds like a fun semi-counter to glacier NA shenanigans. Money up or dig around RnD, HQ or your stack if you can't get in, then play this and buy a turn.

>>52826451

My favorite use still is the virus purge prevention in headlock or similar builds.

That's kind of a mean play though.

Was thinking, I always play it in Anarch, but that could be an amusing support to, say Tapwrm with a Data Dealer/Street Peddler on the table.

>>52827900
I have a Crim build that spams Tapwrm forever, mind make for a good add, just gotta find a Seedy card to use it with. Probably Bloo Moose over Data Dealer, though the latter is free I suppose. Too bad there aren't any in faction agenda replacement cards.

>>52831727

'tis sad to see such a good AA be rotated out in a matter of months, even if said ice (and unfortunate breaker victim) didn't see that much usage all considered.

>>52831867

You'd think it would have been seen more often given all the complaints on AI breakers.

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>>52832224
It would have done, had pic related not been one of the most commonly used sentries in the game

Mimic and Yog had a good concept, but with ice strength on a 0-10 scale outside of occasional shenanigans they really didn't need to be at 3

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>>52832241

Definitively a Core balance issue.
But even so, forcing the runner to install another breaker is not useless.

>>52832278
Man. ONR had ice as a much scarier thing - or at least it seems that way

>>52832831

To a point yes. But then the game's econ was quite different too.

Kinda want to get one of those AA Data Raven to make a Custom Biotic using Wotan and then two "unique" ravens.

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>>52833840
>a Custom Biotic using Wotan and then two "unique" ravens.
That would be rad as fuck

>>52834197

Gotta love a good theme deck.

Feeling like getting back the old Wotan rush build. Being able to rez a Wotan very early via early Bioroid Efficiency Research and score a single project Wotan was a pretty nice feeling.
And then generally disregarded support cards (Tyr, Wetwork) are a lot more interesting with 2.0 and beyond - especially the release versions which just can't be clicked through.


Now to expand on the theme... some Fenris would have to be there for sure.

A thought on Khan decks; how viable is it for a breaker switching style of play? Like have 1-ofs of out of faction efficient breakers, then multiples of inefficient or central only breakers to get a rig down early, to be replaced with the efficient ones later. You'd still only fire her ability <5 - 7 times, but you'd be able to threaten every server very quickly.

>>52832241

I mean wasn't the entire point that its base strength is a bit higher than usual as a counterpoint to the fact that the breaker itself is inflexible? Yes, it terms of. *just* numbers it's one of the most efficient breakers, but it also most times requires support to do its thing. That means extra setup time. Mimic on two would be *miserable* when you factor in the 4+ strength sentries there are to contend with. And while I can agree that it maybe shouldn't be free to use per se, Yog gets it even worse as there are plenty of Code Gates that have higher strength-to-rez cost ratios. If you're going to do something like that you're going to need to give them some form of additional support. That said I'd honestly like to see more design space akin to Nfr and Sunya with the whole starting at off weak and getting power counters for breaking.

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>>52834446
Tyr's hand for sure.

>>52835668
>when you factor in the 4+ strength sentries there are to contend with
>Yog gets it even worse as there are plenty of Code Gates that have higher strength-to-rez cost ratios
Technically aren't lots of ice strength high *because* they are strength 3? Strength 2 not only would've scaled down ice strength a bit, but other breakers would've bumped up in efficiency as well. Meanwhile Yog and Mimic would've still been efficient breakers if you can get the ice strength down, or their strength up.

>>52835904

Hence the "more support" bit. They could certainly still "function" at two strength but that is a *huge* gap in power for a breaker that has no way to interact with ICE outside of that range by itself.

>>52822667
base it on trans met

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>>52839030

?????

>>52835556

I've played with someone trying that... trouble for me is how to transform that fastened set up into bigger aggression (may just be my inner anarch sipping through).
I think how weirdly specific and limited her ability happens to be hurts a lot.

- Only works for a very specific type of cards.
- Only work once per turn which I think is more than fair, but then only with the very first piece of ICE which really limits you more than you realize until you start playing her.

And then you have the 40 size. If you want to go that route of several ICE breakers per type, you end up haivng a hard squeezing everything you want in, and if you go above, our kinda losing out on one of your advantages. Might totally be worth it now mind you.

This weekend is all about Caïssa. Next week in the Grand Khan Experiment is going to be about that I guess.

Need to find the proper breaker suite... Sad for the 12 inf, Baba Yaga Khan actually looks like something to try following that mold..

>>52841457
>Chessmaster Khan

Is the game plan to use her ID ability to spam Knights when you need them? Or is it a mix of Rooks and birds? I kind of like either of those ideas...

>>52837552
That isn't really any different from their current situation though is it? They hit 3 and lower strength ice, so people avoid (or entirely dismiss) those ice and go for higher strength ones, so you need support cards to hit more ice. Plus, both Yog and Mimic are still incredibly efficient breakers even at 2 strength; even comparing Mimic to other available killers only Faerie, Femme, Garrote, the upcoming Adept, and Creeper start at 2 strength, of which Faerie self-trashes, Femme and Garrote are expensive, and the latter two break for 2 per sub. Efficient breakers should require you to build around them, instead of being a 1-of include that is everywhere.

>>52841457
>I've played with someone trying that
Did they do well? My plan is just to reach inevitability in record time, which means setting up then packing up credits until you need to run. A MOpus might be useful here, but the MU is a problem. You don't really need aggression, you just need to steal agendas (I think we've had this conversation before).

>>52845366
>I think we've had this conversation before

That we have, though in a slightly different context If I'm not mistaken. I did warn it's my inner Anarch talking.

>Did they do well?

Other player didn't think it was good enough, abandoned Khan shortly after. I don't think it was *that* bad. The real killer, as I said is the passing ICE requirement and how to build (and then of course pilot) so that the corp doesn't fuck with your plan. Because if you need too much support to get the ability going, it becomes useless in its fastening effect.

I remember the BoN match up the most. I just had to advance one piece of ICE on every server (thanks Kaguya), and then the Khan advantage was kinda moot, regardless of the the ICE, the runner had to play Russian roulette with the breaker he meant to install. The worst offender was still the runner face-checking with a fairy, feeling safe with my low credits, and then out of nowhere Yagura (another one that doesn't immediately come to mind when talking rotation, but will be missed).

Worse for me is that hardly anyone played/plays Khan, so it's hard gather good data (I like to see decks from both sides to evaluate).

>A MOpus might be useful here

I'm not convinced, less for the MU than for the clicks really.

>>52843492

I've mixed things a bit. Central-breakers+ Knight/bypass for remotes was interesting (I only ever could pull the Inside Job -> Knight install once for remote access but damn, that's nice).

I *really* wish Bishop wasn't two influence (not that it's an unfair cost). I actually like it as bird support. But at that influence cost it's never going to suffer the comparison with Datasucker. And yeah, I do prefer Rook over it if I have to make a choice.Gives you both face-checking wiggle and opportunity to hurt via birds.

I wonder about just removing knight for full bird support. Probably not a good idea.

>>52847639
MOpus is entirely for late game inevitability, with plenty of burst econ for early game. When you have all three breakers down with MOpus, you don't need to do much besides click for 8 and wait for the corp to score. I think I like the multiple breakers inevitability plan enough to try and build a deck for it, but since I can only really play physical, and my cards are spread out over 4 ready to play decks, I can't really test it.

>>52835556

No Escape (40 cards)
Khan: Savvy Skiptracer
-- event (15 cards)
2 Account Siphon
2 Day Job **
3 Dirty Laundry
3 Inside Job
2 Peace in Our Time **
3 Sure Gamble
-- hardware (5 cards)
3 Desperado
2 Dyson Mem Chip
-- program (11 cards)
2 Alias
2 Breach
1 Corroder **
1 Gordian Blade ***
1 Mimic *
2 Mongoose
2 Passport
-- resource (9 cards)
3 Daily Casts
2 Earthrise Hotel
2 Temüjin Contract **
2 The Supplier

Final breaker suite should be Corroder, Gordian, Mimic, the Mongeese, and maybe Alias (for the +3 pump) and Breach depending on the ice suite (Passport has no benefit keeping over Gordian). Probably needs draw and more late game money (Kati, MOpus), probably some multiaccess as well for central wins (Turning Wheel?) I'm also tempted to swap Desperado for Gauntlet or Logos since this isn't run based. No teching as a first draft either.

>>52845366
Yes, except most of those ICE out of Mimic range are at 4 strength. You get Assassin at 5 and Archer at 6 as far as ICE you need to be cognizant of in general. Other 5+ sentries see play but mostly as personal choices or because they complement the deck they're in well, but aren't seen quite as universally *because* they tend to want specific deck types. The 4 strength ones are manageable with support, though facechecking an Archer still sucks. And people still run those three and two strength Sentries. Mimic on 2? Pretty much all of the four strength sentries are useful enough that people would run them anyway.

Another difference here is that with th exception of Adept those other Killers are all capable of interacting with ICE out of their base strength range all on their own. You don't need other cards to let them do their thing: Only credits.

>>52853342

*All the four strength Sentries that already see a lot of play I mean.

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Princess Space Kitten runner identity when?

>>52853342
Rather than seeing the issue as "lowering their strength makes them weak, and requires other cards", why not see it as "you need to build around them in order to utilize their high efficiency at breaking subs"? Yes, if you're solely relying on the fixed strength breakers then you'd need to support them with other cards, but isn't that a good thing? That in order to do stuff efficiently, it has a non-insignificant drawback that you need to work around? If you can put down a breaker and start breaking with few repercussions AND break stuff a whole lot better compared to other cards, why wouldn't you put that breaker in every single deck if you have the spare influence?

That's exactly why Mimic is so prevalent; it covers 35 out of 71 existing Sentries, and while 1 strength breakers need to pump to break 23 of those 35, Mimic easily saves around 2 credits per piece of ice thanks to its 3 strength. Mimic at 2 would still leave you 23 two strength or lower pieces of ice to break without support, which means it still works as a "patch" for handling lower strength ice if your main breaks them inefficiently. You can argue that the numbers don't matter and it all depends on what people actually play, but you wouldn't build a deck without a plan for handling those would you?

>You don't need other cards to let them do their thing: Only credits.
As a change in view point, it also means you the credits usually used to match ice strength can be used for other purposes. And at an average of 2 credits per ice, that's a lot of saved credits.

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>>52853811
There's a cameo in Monster Slayer

Have any of you decided on the decks that you'll be bringing to your regional?

>>52862114

Never attend tournaments myself.

>>52853811

What would her ability be?

Time for a new thread.

Also, rest of the TD non-campaign spoilers are out!

http://imgur.com/a/jimfv

Next OP should include this.

>>52864213
Guess we can hold off the discussion until the new thread, but Armored Servers is pretty decent. Score two and you've pretty much guaranteed the final 5/3 score. Also, I think we're missing Hailstorm, though I guess it has already technically been spoiled. Then again, so was Mason...

>>52864213

Neat. Will keep conversation to next thread, though I'll say I am disappointed in Biometric Spoofing.