Shadow War Armageddon General /swag/

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>>52654659
reposting from previous thread

I finally received the last component of my team today, so tomorrow I'm shopping for some things, new brushes, a cutting board and so on, and then I'll be posting wip pics of my painting unless people are opposed to that.

>>52654912
Post them, but not here

>>>/wip/

>>52654945
Where is that?

>>52654945
At least drop the link >>52654230

>>52654977
Oh, elsewhere in /tg/. Ok then. I thought, as it is my team for SW:A and others have posted pics of their teams, that it would be fine.

>>52655001
Can't stop you, just don't turn the thread into a blog.

>>52655024
Heh, that wasn't my intention. Just like maybe "primed", "base coated" and "finished". :)

>>52654846
righto.
1. sorcerer should outright ban mark of khorne
2. force swords are not nemesis force swords. make it a power sword. also don't lock it into sword. Sorcerers are often modeled with staves, and axes are an option. power sword or power axe or power maul(counts as stave)
3. a 4+ feel no pain doesn't exist. feel no pain doesn't exist. Rip off the plague zombies Skavvies have in necromunda: outlanders (preferebly the community edition, though given the more simplified/different campaign system, probably drop the Plague! rule)
4. the noise marine looks mostly okay? the doom siren should have the ammo roll rule that flamers have. i'm mildly worried about the blastmaster. also, why does he have ammo hound and crack shot?

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>>52654016
Well, as I am interested in your point of view; what part of the Necron team puts it in parity with say; Dark Eldar.

One of the teams has their rule of standing back up on a 1-3. Pays 80pt for their leader with almost no added benefits; no additional stats, guns or loadout options. Their Troopers have 2 guns, 1 which is better than the other. Their warrior and specialist doesn't get that option. Not one single standard model can take melee weapons as an option.

The other faction can tak fewer models but gets heavy bonuses on the one thing they're supposed to do; charging into melee.
They are partially immune to pinning, enemies get -2 to shoot them, no falling damage, can walk, run and charge through walls, wound everything basically on a 2+ regardless of toughness, has and fear and an 4++ save innately.

I want to express that they more or less ignore Falling, pinning and tactical movement which are supposed to be some of the few key mechanics to this game. Also that factionwide 3++ invurnabillity save.

Tl:dr - You asked if I understood parity. I just want you to clarify how this can be considered balanced.

Has any one got any pics of what there terrain ended up like, did you just copy the plans or did you decide something else was cooler.

Or if you are not too hot on the GW terrain what does your own game board look like.

>>52655120
Please stop this "Necrons don't get melee weapons" thing. They come with a combat blade ffs.

>>52654846
summoning seems really strong
summoning 2 deamons every other turn on average means you'll probably increased your team size by 50% on turn 4 and with the way those deamons are in 40k and the way melee is in sw:a they're gonna be really strong to , consider just dropping the daemons, making them a seperate specialist (if a single scion can be a specialists then a deamon can be to) or making it a one time summon like grots and adding a cache reward if the deamonsor the sorceror are destroyed and d3 caches if both the sorcerer and daemons are destroyed

>>52655172
Is this sarcasm?

>>52655203
No.

>>52655120
harlies are just broken to all hell so that's not really a point of reference for your necrons

>>52655120
that is harlequins you're comparing them to, not dark eldar. harlequins, the most busted team right now.

>>52655272
Until you idiots start to use granades ?

>>52655418
ah yes the st3 sv-0 weapon with 9-12 inch range that can't pin them will surely stop them

>>52655418
Good idea, lemme just drop some toys to add grenades to my Pathfi- oh. Oh no.

>>52655418
>grenades
>-4 hit chance so it scatters wildly
>pin your own guys while harlies laugh it off.

>>52655418
which grenades are those? the frag grenades that can't pin them and you'll scatter with because you'll miss them, or the krak grenades that you'll miss with even harder?

>>52655218
Yes, to allow melee combat RAW everyone starts with a combat blade.

Necrons are one of the few factions that does not have the option of taking more blades for more attacks, more guns/pistols for more attacks, and no armor pen and no special abillities in CC.
>This is only counting the standard models, not the Spec-ops.

>>52655120
>Their Troopers have 2 guns, 1 which is better than the other.
You mean the tesla, right? Same strength and pretty much same price but tons of shots?

>>52655478
keep in mind the krak grenades still don't pin them since they're only st6
also the fact that if you're in grenade range you're in harlie charge range

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>>52655255
>>52655272
That IS a legitimate point.
I'm just a tad rustled a guy actually doubtet my abillity to comprehend the word "balanced" when i mentioned that Necrons get a 30pt "you're always in partial cover" toy when everyone get the "ignore partial cover" tool for 15pt (half cost)
That and necrons only get 4 toys total.

- Ignore partial cover (Photovisor)
- Walk through open terrain (Like harlies, but worse)
- Shrouded (partial cover)
- Mindshacle (Exchange shooting for enemy Ld test -1, on failure you get to use his weapon for a single attack.)

>>52655529
Don't forget the "unwieldy" special rule krak has which gives it -1 to hit, amounting to a -3 BS vs a running harlie.

>>52655483
the ogryn breaks this actually since with the grenade launcher/slab shield he doesn't have a melee weapon

>>52655542
>everyone get the "ignore partial cover" tool for 15pt (half cost)
But it only works if they don't move at all.

>>52655478
Frag with large template that wound on 4+ and left them with 4+ save. Oh and even if you miss it would have to be horrible scatter not to hit any of them. Of course you can just overwatch with flamers. Or any weapon because thy dont get -2 when charging. ...

Or you can play this game in you head rather then a table - I cant help you - even psychiatrist lost hope

>>52655542
guard doesn't get it
also photo visor doesn't work unless you stand still
the partial cover thing still isn't great though i'll admit

>>52655526
It's 5 points more and trades rerolling to wound and -2 save mod for sustained fire. It's mathematically worse in almost every situation.

>>52655542
What does AM get that ignore partial cover?

>>52655542
you have to stay still to ignore part of cover with photo visors.

>>52655561
everyone is assumed to have a knife even if they don't have anything. in the hand to hand section of the armoury it says all fighters have a knife in addition to anything else. So even if you end up with no combat weapons, you always have a knife(it's basically your unarmed option)

Can you shoot a fighter who is already pinned? If so do they stay pinned for the following turn as well?

>>52655601
wow you're dumb
1) a harlie who is in grenade range is in charge range, at this point it will be best to run back and get outside of his charge range to delay a turn
2) even if you do get a shot of he's gonna have ran and probably will be in full cover to since he ignores terrain anyway , so that's a -3 on your to hit
if you miss the frag there is only 1 result on the scatter die that will still make you hit, a 2 since you have to centre the blast marker and it's only got a radius of 2.5 inch, so a 4 is a miss, a misfire is a misfire and even if you roll a direct hit you still scatter

>>52655526
It has 66% chance of firing more shots but you forgo the wounding re-roll and the -2 armor modifyer.

Tesla has a higher chance of hitting, granted you actually roll well.
Gauss has a better chance of actually woundig with every shot.

Mathwise gauss is already doing more wounds per attack if we average the tesla to 2 shots per attack, but with the shooting talent that gives any basic gun Sustained Fire 1, it actually makes the Tesla obsolete in every single way.

>>52655637
strangely enough the ripper gun is specially mentioned to also be a knife but the grenade gauntlet doesn't have any sort of melee
also that wording would imply all normal models have 2 knives

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Please rate my GSC Kill team, it needs to be able to take on a camping skitarii list, wych cult and orks without getting rekt.

Leader: Autopistol, Chainsword - 160pts

2 Neophyte Hybrids, Autoguns - 80pts

2 Neophytes Initiates, Autoguns - 140pts

2 Heavies: Heavy Stubber, photo visor - 410pts

2x Neophyte Initiates, autopistols - 130pts

1000 points

>>52655601
>1 in 4 chance of doing anything to a harlie
>Who's within charge range
>after managing to hit them with a -2 to -4 penalty
Yeah, I guess if you roll perfectly then Harlequin teams are easy to take down, thanks anon!

>>52655569
>>52655608
Oh, the "standing still" thing is actually news to me. Sorry bout that.

That also makes it worse for the necrons too though, but at least the shadowloom just got better I guess?

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Will I be called a faggot for playing my Tau in this?

Are they any good?

>>52655761
>>52655611
Oh, I didn't know they rerolled to wound as well.

>>52654912
I don't personally mind WIP posts as long as it relates to SW:A. I like seeing what everyone is making without having to go to multiple threads.
To me this is ALL things SW:A

>>52655791
not really, melee is really strong and while tau have good shooting, they're lacking in range so it balances out

>>52655791
yes

>>52655089
>>52655174
All great points!
Back to the drawing board

>>52655791
people hate tau because of Battlesuits and formations. In Shadow wars your just playing pathfinders so youre effectively blue Imperial Guard with less weaponry but markerlights

>>52655773
yep. see in necromunda dudes didn't come with their knife explicitly listed in their shit, but they still had it because of that clause. becuase of copy paste and them explicitly listing knives in all the normal profiles you get that kind of weirdness. The intent is obviously "everyone has one knife by default no matter what, unless they buy more knives"

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>>52655795
Yeah, the necron guns are solid, don't get us wrong. But they have -no- options.
Their Reqruits, Troops and specialist get 1 gun each. They are likely born with the gun and will finish the campaign with that gun.

S5, -2pen and re-roll failed wounding is nice. But there is no grenades, no missiles, no templates, no high impact weapons, no sneaky armor bypass and no CC.

>>52655715
Grenades only scatter half distance. The distances iirc are - 1 2 3 4 5, I believe - counts as no distance?

>>52655775
Have you added up those points right?

>>52655775

You've got numbers and some firepower, I see no problems.

I have a similar GSC list, but as usual I couldn't resist the allure of shiny toys.

>Leader + Bolt-Pistol + Power Maul
>Heavy + Seismic Cannon
>Heavy + K+F Grenade Launcher
>Neophyte + Autogun
>Neophyte + Autogun
>Initiate + Autopistol
>Initiate + Autopistol

Less members more firepower. The plan is to upgrade the Initiates with Bolt-Guns and Chainsword when possible and get a third Heavy with a Heavy Stubber

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>>52655905
Oh, and the Specialist's only weapon is strictly worse than the Trooper's gun with, 6'' less range, 1 less AP and no re-roll wounding.
All for the benefit of costing 10 less points total from the Trooper.

>Oh, they also have the abillity to be forced to teleport into play Turn2 within enemy charge range. You better hope they didn't huddle up in preparation because if they did, your assassin will both get shot and charged, disabling the Necron faction abillity.

>>52655959
ah yeah fair enough
still only gonna hit on a 1 and 2
and keep in mind all of this if the harlie doesn't have a wall to hind behind that he can conventiently walk trough next turn

>>52655996
Looking at the skills they can learn... they can't buy pistols? but they will be gaining a skill that allows them to fire two pistols at once.

I gotta pity the guy that rolled a 3 on shooting.

>>52655869
Hrm.. I quote Necromunda: "All fighters carry a
knife at the very least, and are assumed to have one tucked out of sight if the model itself does not include it."

Serious question, do models grant the models standing directly behind any sort of cover bonus?

I mean there is a rule that says you have to shoot the closest model, but if the closest model is in partial cover; can they just shoot the model right behind him at no penality?

(Shadowloom item treats you like you're in permanent partial-cover, even in open terrain.)

>>52656038
you roll 2 dice when gaining a skill and choose which one you want

>>52656038
At least you get 2d6 pick 1, when rolling for skills.

>>52655998
Harlies can't walk through walls. I thought we settled that yesterday.

>>52655778
Sure and then thay charge you with S3 and kill you all to death. I know that little Chucks of this world want to whine so go ahead.

>>52655998
Oh yeah I'm not saying it'll help against harlies.

I'll load up on 2 plasma rifles, a plasma pistol and a flamer and krak grenades and sustained fire overwatch them next time. Hopefully 5 plasma shots, a flame template and heavy damage grenades will...... help.

>>52656051
I mean, they help conceal the models behind them right? That's how I assume it goes.

>>52656044
yep. which is a more long winded/older way of saying the same thing.

>>52656051
>>52656089
cover is based on line of sight and how much of the model is obscured to the shooter, not terrain. Can you not see the entire model? partial cover. can you see less than half of the model? cover.

>>52656083
"A fighter with a flip belt treats all terrain as open ground for the purposes of movement, but can’t end its move on impassable terrain"

RAW this means they can.
RAI this implies they can with the "but can’t END its move on impassable terrain"

Am i reading the armor modifier rules correctly that the choppa does not have a save modifier, because it doesnt have one listed and you use base strength of 3 to calculate base armor modifiers?

>>52656226
choppa has user+1 for strength. that means you get a +1 to strength when using it, which also means that since it uses your strength you get the armor mod for strong

I'm not as scared of Harlies when my Neophyte Leader was able to charge with a Bolt Pistol/Chainsword 4A (had an initiate also charge and go first) I took out a Troupe Master, so it can be done...I mean they're only toughness 3 for pete's sake.

>>52656177
And "impassable terrain" does not include walls.

And common sense says it's ridiculous to even suggest the idea that they for some reason turn into ghosts by wearing flip belts.

>>52656292
So a power claw has a -7 modifier?

>>52656292
>>52656331
nope it's user strength
the chopper strikes at user st+1

>>52656387
so a choppa has no mod on a boy?

>>52656309
To be fair there are also a ton of variables. He didn't have a sword so I parried his 6, plus a fumble giving him an 9 Combat score. I rolled two 6's plus my WS3 and the +1 for multiple combat...so my CS was 11.
each weapon is Str:4 so wounded on a 3+ and he happened to fail both saves.
Then I rolled a 2 + 5 on the injury chart and if you go down in single combat you're out...so BOOM! Dead Troupe Master.
I then went on to kill a Mime. My Leader is a beast! (and lucky)

>>52656322
So, what are you saying? Walls aren't terrain?

>common sense is whatever benefits me most!
Use your imagination, forge the narrative.
maybe they did a cool flip up and over it? Maybe they leaped and daintily flew through a small hole in the wall?

Making a wych cult. No idea what to arm then with. Little help?

>>52656322
Yeah a model RAW cannot "climb" more than a 2" barrier. Which is why Tyranids specifically have flesh hooks allowing them to do just that.
If Harlequins could do the same then their rule would be written like the Flesh Hooks

>>52656443
Pistols and poisoned chain hooks, there is no reason to use anything else.

>>52656397
he hits with s4 using it. s4based on model str is a -1 mod to armor. the weapon has a -(dash) mod so it adds nothing on top of the -1.

Is SW:A even getting unique models like necromunda had?

>>52656397
yeah re read page 42
you have the base model's strength which may or may not add a modifier , this is added on top of the weapon's modifier
basically a choppa is st4 ap -
a boy which gets st4 trough an advance has st 5 ap1
that's the way i read it anyway, otherwise you only get the rend if it has no st modifiers at all

>>52656322
>And "impassable terrain" does not include walls.
Anything taller than 2" is impassible terrain.

Ergo, walls taller than 2" are impassible terrain.

>>52656514
choppa on a boy is s4(3+1) sv-1(s4 is a -1)

>>52656490
no it doesn't
it specifically says use the models strength

>mindshackle scarabs are now a shooting attack thing

Is this what it's gonna be in the new codex? I mean it's a step up from paying points to cause fear.

So I started up a SW:A game with a friend. He murdered my Skitarii as his Harlequins.

I come here later to find that Harlequins are the most broken faction, something my friend had no idea of (as he just fuckin' loves Harlequins, and wanted to play them before even seeing the rules).

So how the fuck do I do anything to them? I can't hit them, I can't melee them, and I certainly can't pin then.

>>52656532
see>>52656543
the choppa does not modify the boy's base strength

>>52656552
flamers?

>>52656518
at what point do you draw the line?
If there's a 6" wall and he's in base contact are we saying he can move 11" on the other side...
OR that he can go up 6", fall 6" and end his run in base contact on the other side?

new fag here..

so, confirmed I can put a telescopic sight on a plasma gun right??

>>52656561
Skits don't get flamers.

>>52656430
Flip over a wall, yes. Pass through a wall, no. Is that so hard to understand? And if anyone is bending the rules to fit what benefits them the most here it's the one who choose to interpret the rule as "harlies can pass through walls".

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>>52656543
you sir, are wrong
>Choppa (includes wrench)
User +1

>>52656554
the weapon modifies the model's strength. which means the the attacks with that strength have a higher save mod.

>>52656567
He can move through impassible terrain, he doesn't have to go around it.

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>>52656518

>>52656592
>A fighter with a flip belt treats all terrain as open ground for the purposes of movement, but can’t end its move on impassable terrain
It's plain as day, their rules effectively allows them to move through walls.
Just imagine them as flipping over it or something if it triggers you.

Or, just don't play against them in the first place, harlequin players are already shaping up to be massive WAAC fags that shouldn't be allowed in to any reasonable gaming group anyway.

>>52656592
This guy is fucking retarded, just avoid fags like this and you'll be fine ----> >>52656602

>Harlequins can teleport through walls now

>>52656602
Walls are not terrain.

>>52656640
Deny reality and call anyone with a differing opinion a retard if you want but it's not going to change the rules of the game, just refuse all games against harlequins if you dont like it.

Or just bully them in to playing with your houserules.

>>52656634
Yeah, you can't possibly be serious. Nobody can be that stupid. You're just trolling. I get it now.

>>52656674
Walls are not terrain ffs.

>>52656634
Just because terrain is open ground does not mean that you "ignore" said terrain...in my previous example the harlequin can move to the other side of a 6" wall because it's open ground but that means he would end his move at the bottom in base contact on the other side.

>>52656598
m'gentleman
page 42 of a gentlemans handbook of the honorable sport of shadow war armageddon m'sir
quoth the book " knives,swords and other close weapons often use the fighters own strength. the chart below is used to determine the saving throw modifier when a fighter's own strength is used. some close ...."
the gentlord should take not that it refers to the model's strength , not the weapon's strength
by saying that the choppa gets a -1 if you advance an ork into strength 4 i'm being generous as RAW it doesn't even get that and this only works on combat blades and assault blades
*tips fedora , clicks heels tree times and flies away*

>>52656640
This is just plain stupid though. We had this discussion yesterday and we settled it. But now another batch of mushrooms pop up and mimimi mah harlies are ghosts.

>>52656634
Well Im playing Harlies and I am fully aware its a collosal dick move to say, RAW I can move through walls. Which is why I dock it from my movement if its over 2 inches. I do this without being asked, because its the decent thing to do, and means I can play Harlies.
As to if they are overpowered, in the campaign style of game, I'll tell you when I rejoin my local GWs campaign after two weeks. If I do well on only 2 games, despite being several games behind, I'll let you all know.
(BTW in my two games, I had one Harly left in each game, but my opponent broke. Its not hard to bring them down thanks to one bad combat)

>>52656674
I play Harlequins, and after reading all the rules I came to a very different conclusion and as a Game store owner I wouldn't allow your "interpretation" of these rules to fly in our leagues.
No one, save Necrons, can just fucking teleport through shit. Harlequins are agile, yes. So agile that they can "flip over a 6" wall...but that would still take 12" of movement to do so.

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>>52656706
you wanna be a bitch? fine. Weapon profiles, P53 in the real rulebook, or p36 in the pdf. image enclosed

>>52656601
see
>>52656706
the weapon's strength is user+1 , the model's strength remains 3

>>52656709
>>52656745
These anons get it. I'm off to bed.

>>52656708
I missed that discussion, what was the settlement?
I fall on the side of they can move "over" anything but must measure the distance to do so.

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How does my Freeboota list sound anons?

Badrukk's Boyz!!

Clan: Death Skulls Closest Clan I can get to Freebootas

Leader

Boss Nob
'Eavy Armour
Big Choppa
Shoota
Slugga

Specialists

Spanna Boy
Big Shoota
Clip HarnessHad extra points and it seems super useful

Troopers

Ork Boyz x3
Slugga
Choppa

Recruits

Yoofs x5
Shoota

Pretty generic honestly, but planning to bring the FlashgitProxied by the Kaptin himself a ton, and the Runtherd.

My favorite kit-bash ever is that Bloodaxe tier spanna boy, looks like he could be shipped off the Vietnam in a moments notice.

>>52656745
>>52656709
Harlequin players, how the fuck do I beat you as Skitarii, other than a shitton of prayer and lobbing as many shots onto one target as I can?

>>52656751
i stand corrected , glad to see the book is keeping with tradition of explaining rules once at random points and never mentioning it again
thanks though this means my dream of using a power sword veteran sergeant is alive again

>>52656783
The settlement is that anyone who thinks they can actually move through walls must be an opinionated special needs student.

The face that these retards are still trying to argue this just shows what a short attention span they have.

>>52656758
incorrect, look here >>52656751

>>52656791
Read this ----> >>52656309 >>52656399

Luck does play a role, and as Skittles you rely heavily on shooting...haven't seen a game between the two yet so I can't say for sure but I would say focus fire and stay at max range at all times.

>>52656791
From what I've seen, Skitarii are actually one of the harder teams to play. They seem to depend on alot of single target, long range fire, from as many people as possible. Omnispex one guy, then make sure you have red dots. Against Harlies, red dot has no down side, so you are only firing at a -1 if you are shooting at a harlie in full cover. Focus fire on the troop master, then the virtuosos. Prioritise.

>>52656791
Lucky pot shots while they approach, group up in open ground, shoot anyone who doesn't run and over-watch when they charge.

Quantity of shots over quality of shots, even if you pin them they can just initiative test to jump up.

>>52656783
The settlement was "they're amazing acrobats, not ghosts". We agreed that the rule is poorly worded since it's similar to necrons who actually can move through walls, which might be in part reason for the confusion.

>>52656790
>My favorite kit-bash ever is that Bloodaxe tier spanna boy, looks like he could be shipped off the Vietnam in a moments notice.
Very cool looking model indeed.
List looks good, there really isn't a "bad" place to start if you're doing a campaign, because then it's about how you maximize your points and what advancements you get.

>>52656790
I would want more units. The slugga on the nob is useless because both the shoota and big choppa require both hands to use.

How viable is it to heavily focus my ork boys towards melee engagements and just get as many bodies on the table with choppa/sluggas as I can?

>>52656930
I think he was going for a cheap alt to a wpn rld
Shoota blows up he's still got a Slugga, don't know could be some other reason.
I put pistols on most of my Specialists instead of wpn rlds

>>52656987
Actually more viable than you would think, you aren't as fast as Harlequins but if you have 10 Boyz running you down you can't take them all out and then BAM! they're on you and fucking your day up. Just try to run into cover as much as possible giving them a -2/-3 to hit you from running and cover.

>>52656987
and multiple combat is a game changer, always charge in pairs or more...you get +1 dice AND +1 to Combat Score for each additional Boy.

>>52656987
roving bands of shank/slugga yoofs are scary

Hi /tg/. How would you improve this list? My guess would be to remove a spanner and take more boys/yoofs. Is the power klaw worth using? I'm at 935. Thanks.

boss nob 160
power klaw 85
slugga 10
255

boy 60
slugga 10
choppa 10
80

boy 60
slugga 10
choppa 10
80

boy 60
slugga 10
choppa 10


spanner boy 70
big shoota 150
220

spanner boy 70
big shoota 150
220

>>52656930
I took the slugga because I had 10 extra points, and thought it would be a good idea to pass it to one of the yoofs when they eventually become boyz and get their choppas.

>>52657143
slugga should go on the big shoota, then, give him something to shoot after failing his ammo rolls on the shoota.

>>52656552
Make use of photo visors, red dot sights, and our superior long range. Retreating and leading the enemy where you want them to go is key for us as shooting forces. Red dot sights and the +1 for long range for galv rifles will negate their +2 for running, and a photo visor will negate cover. If they hide, they can't run.

The arquebus, of which you should have 3 eventually, can pin and kill them easily.

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new fag needs help!

I can give my Guard specialist a plasma gun and telescopic sight right guys? pic semi related

>>52657533
read your list.

>>52657714
k, i could thanks. sometimes its hard to find what your looking for on a pdf amirite?

>>52653843
>>52653871
>What happens when a necron gets poisoned.

No, I mean, which table do they roll on?
Might be better trying to toxin necrons rather than plasma them.

>>52658000
It seems like they only use their table in the recovery phase, so when you hit them with toxic they roll on that one.

>>52658000
i legit don't know. you have two effects that override the standard injury table in the recovery phase. shit. hmm. that sounds like either roll off or talk with your opponent.

>>52657829
SOMETIMES HARD TO FIND AN APOSTROPHE FUCK.
YOU'RE A DISGRACE.

>>52658348
its an 89 page rulebook thats shittily scanned you twat (but still, praise be to uploader)

I'm interested in seeing some 'nids, thinking about dusting off some warriors I've had sitting around and not kicking myself for buying the newer kit with the warrior prime conversion and bone swords.

hmm, does gw make any decently sized humanoids i could use as counts as tyranid warriors? like similar size and bases?

>>52655612
Omnispex to ignore all cover?

How do Grabba Sticks work?

>>52658775
>That's skittles

>>52658650
Ogryn

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>>52656790
Good to see another lad repping the booterz.
WiP pics pls.

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What close combat weapon should i put on my chaos champion. I was thinking power sword and bolt pistol

>>52658991
FIST.
PLASMA.

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My friend just got Scavanger and is now insisting that he gets those 50 points for the following rearm. He says that the wording means that he gets it now because it's so long as his fighter doesn't go out of action.

I dont agree, I would have thought you actually need to finish a mission first. What do you guys think?

>>52658991
Plasma pistol always.

>>52657141
Big shootas are pretty good iirc, maybe drop the power klaw for more cheap guys. Take as many yoofs as you can. All three of those boys should be yoofs.

Is this the game I've been waiting to get back into the 40kverse for?

>>52659278
Looking at "Rewards of Battle"; gaining skills comes before rearming. I'd say he's right.

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https://github.com/BSData/wh40k-shadow-war-armageddon

Figured I'd let you guys know.

>>52659424

But surely you're meant to hold the skill at the end of the mission to qualify for its bonus?

>>52659549
>"Wow, that time we had fighting those Solitaires really showed me the way. I'm going to put this enlightenment to work now and try my hand at looting, brb!"

>>52659590

that doesn't really explain the game sequencing here at all

I take it that you need to have completed a mission WITH the skill for it to qualify for the bonus.

>IF fighter has skill AND completes mission standing (simultaneously) THEN bonus

and not

>IF completes mission standing THEN gains skill THEN bonus

>wow there was a lot in the promethium sprawl that could be useful, I should keep an eye out next mission.

>>52659450
awesome

Skittles list. What do you think? The extra knife and photo visor are only because I had 20 extra points.

Alpha 150
+Galv Rifle 35
+combat knife 5 (so he has 2)

Ranger 80
+galv rifle 35

Ranger 80
+galv rifle 35

Ranger 80
+galv rifle 35

Fresh forged 65
+galv rifle 35

Fresh forged 65
+galv rifle 35

Spec 90
+arcebus 180
+photo visor

>>52659450
Bless you

After fifteen hours of carefully combing over the rules and extensive strategic analysis, I have carefully measured the point-by-point costs to very carefully craft the following list:

(1x) Boss Nob w/Big Choppa
(10x)Boyz w/Choppa and Slugga

How did I do /tg/

>>52659848
Spend those 20 points on red dots.

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>>52659278
I was going to agree with you, but the timing table agrees with your friend.

>>52660006
Nevermind. Subtract that extra 20. I miscalculated.

>>52659966
Upon reconsideration, I've further revised this list:

(1x) Boss Nob w/Big Choppa
(7x)Boyz w/Choppa and Slugga
(5x)Yoof w/Choppa and Slugga

My planned strategy is "run at people en mass and hit them with my choppas"

How does Unreliable work in combat?

Can you use the charged profile on the plasma pistol in close combat?

>>52659711
Get to the step where you rearm your guys. Do any of them have scavenger? If so you get 50 extra points for each of them that aren't out of action.

I quit 40k over a year ago. I just found out this game exists yesterday. Now it's pulled me back to /tg/ to ask, is it worth it for a big fat quitter like me? How are the dark eldar and tau? Are they worth playing?

>>52655959
I think youve got that wrong; a weapon cannot scatter more than half the distance between attacker and target.

>>52660246
Great list, will probably be using it myself...I NEED Orks to be an effective foot slogging melee faction, and this list is the answer.
Thank you!

>>52660718
It is what Kill Team should have been. It is my now favorite and OONLY way to play 40K
(Until 8th releases)
Don't know about DE but Tau are fun...my 2 pistol gunfighter Leader is actually a nightmare for people to deal with...So much fun.

>>52660752
blasts can scatter a max of half the distance between firer and target. thrown grenades scatter half the distance rolled (since they're thrown and their ranges are shorter, so scatter a max of 5 inches), but since they bounce around an exception to the "can't scatter more than half the distance between firer and target" rule. so throwing a grenade at a dude 5 inches away means it could scatter back onto your face

>>52660718
No - get the fuck out

>>52660809
I want the DE to be good. That will get me back into the game if they are. I bought a bunch of wyches during the early days of 6th. Then we got the new codex and half my army was shit. I have two pathfinder squads still in box too though.

>>52660246
Harlies will eat you with 3S CC - dont bother ...

>>52660863
Yes because the only faction I will ever fight is Harlequins...oh wait! there's like 10 other factions to fight.....fuck off asshole and let that man play his Orks!

Is there any printable PDFs or w/e for the Kill Team Sheet at the back of the book yet? I've been scouring the interwebs for one but can't find any.

>>52660852
For the wyches I here that Pistol/chain fist combo is a force to be reckoned with especially with a bunch of them...this game makes the Assault phase fun and viable again. I don't see why DE wouldn't excel in this system.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B82YjtNKP2OgS2xjMWVqSWpqT2c/view

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>>52660906
I made this, it's close.
I'll upload the Excel file to the Mega so you can edit it for your use

>>52660626
The power levels refer to Shooting attacks, so Id assume they can only use low power in close combat

Unreliable only comes into play when making an ammo check and pistols never make them when used as close combat weapons.

>>52660718
I was in the same boat. Left to play warmachine and guild ball. This has pulled me in so hard. I'm loving the rules, as a combat vet, and I love skirmish games.

Started with a box of pathfinders and picked up the skitarii get started box today.

Tau would be better if we had our good shit. I chose Skittles because they do the same things but better.

Thank you.

>>52660949
Yer welcome, lohrd Snohw.

>>52660852
I played my first couple games as DE, proxying my Blood Bowl team in as wyches. They're good.

>>52660626
You have to use the default profile in close combat.

You don't make an ammo roll for pistols in close combat, so no unreliable to worry about

>>52660911
>>52660994
Awesome. I'll try to get a trial game in before I buy then. Thanks.

>>52660941
Yeah, I'm disappointed we can't have crisis suits. I'm gay for crisis suits.

>>52661164
I'd be extremely satisfied with fire warriors. If I could go to GW HQ and beg for them to add a firewsrrior kill team, I would. Use a crisis suit, fireblade, and something else as spec ops.

Pathfinders feel very under handed, especially with the absence of options and the ability to overcharge the ion rifle. The rail rifle should have at least 48" range, I think, and be s7. For the sake of games, Tau will fall behind because we have 0 access to high impact weapons, which means a lot of teams say fuck you. Where as Skittles can have 3 arquebi, the best gun in the game (considering costs and all that.l

>>52661273
What will Firewarrior specialist be? The drone? They have 3 guns in the box, all basic.

>>52655129
We've been using deadzone and zonemortallis terrain

>>52661302
I've no idea, honestly. Someone who can handle the missile pods? More than likely this is why they chose the pathfinder box.

>Necrons can't bring destroyers or flayed ones as specialists

Lame

How does this look for a first time Chaos player.

Aspy
- Bolt Pistol + Sword

Gunner
Heavy bolter

CSM
Bolter

CSM
Bolter

2 Cultists

Enough warm bodies? Would I better off switching to bolt pistol and melee weapons on the CSM?

>>52661699
Most boys less toyz

>>52661711
What type?

>>52661273
Ah. That sucks. I don't know anything about AdMec since they came out about the same time I left.

>>52661402
When I saw that they chose the wyches I assumed that they chose mostly based on models that they couldn't sell. But thanks to earlier posts I have hope that the wyches are playable.

>>52661699
Get 2 autogun on cultist.

Drop HB, too expensive, overkill.if you want something expensive and overkill, get the Autocanon or plasma, these are also high-impact which can gimp even Harlequin and Nid.

Spare point? more cultist, or red dot sight.

>>52656987
With a little juggling of points you can field 12-14 models without gimping them too much. You'll want those bonuses for outnumbering your opponent also.

How would you equip a dire avenger exarch? Sword and shield or what?

>>52654812
How do I start my warband/gang in Shadow War? I have a couple of Tau that I can use, but I do not understand fully on how to make a list.

>>52655791
Only pathfinders son, get the fuck out with manga tin cans.

We should get GW our errata and FAQ stuff before the final version goes to print/digital.

This is what i got

>Astra Militarum Veteran Sergeant and Tau Pathfinder Shas'ui should have A 2.
>genestealer cult lasguns should be the normal lasgun price (25p)
>the tyranid ravener should have 3 wounds.
>tyranid warriors should probably have access to devourers as an option.
>maybe let tyranid warriors do their resupply swapping of weapons also in the team construction phase, so you can start with (melee other than scytal)+gun builds
>Clarify the harlequin or phase shifter terrain wording. Does it allow them to ghost through walls? That seems appropriate for the slow necrons but game-breakingly absurd for the speedy harlequins.
>How do necrons' and toxic's custom recovery phase tables interract?
>toxic rounds probably should cost more. Necromunda needle rifle/pistols the toxic rule is from from were rare and expensive. 40+20 points for a sniper rifle+tox rounds is rather cheap for automatic wounding + more punishing injury table that leaves you stuck there, and that the entire scout team can take and A-Mil can take on all their special weapons.
>Knives, you've stated in multiple places that fighters have a knife in addition to everything else they're equipped with, and then went and gave all the regular list fighters knives, so that ends up with lots of things just having two knives by default. dunno how you wanna reword any of that or clarify that. The obvious intent is a fighter has a single knife on them at all times no matter if it's stated if they have one or not, and you have to purchase a second to have two of them.
>Clearly state somewhere that pistols don't usually take ammo rolls/unreliable when fired in close combat (the hand-flamer that GeneCult has being an obvious exception to the ammo roll part)
>Clearly state somewhere that plasma pistols use the low power profile in close combat
>Orks wear Squid-hide armor instead of Squig-hide armor in the reference sheet

>>52662274
aw shit i forgot the dire avenger shuricat one

So what i have gathered is that this game is Necromunda minus the Gang warfare... so not Necromunda at all.

>>52660246
That list is not half bad. Some would argue that you want to juggle points to fit a spanna with big shoota in there, but overall looks good.

>>52659848
Check your math, you're already 20 points over. I was making a list just like this one, you have to do three fresh forged and two Rangers, and you can still have the photovisor on the specialist.

>>52662071
>>52662120
Are bolters okay to start with then?

>>52662274
Looks good. Seems you've got all the important ones included.

Other than making the terrain super dense, how do you go about keeping wyches alive as they sprint across the table?

>>52662382
If you mean Gunner take bolter then no, gunner can't take bolter.

>>52662274
The plasma caliver could probably get some tweaking too, right now it's just a shittier plasma rifle

>>52662274
Idiots work - all is not balanced and not valid - no cookie

>>52662425
It's actually a shittier plasma pistol that can't be used in melee.

Is it possible to make a gang with only chaos cultists? Or do I need regular chaos marines?

Currently looking at some old models and trying to decide what to spruce up and add stuff to for a solid kill-team. Still reading through the rules and haven't fully digested all the implications yet either.

Perhaps you can help me decide. I Have quite a few scouts, some grey knights, and a few tyranid warriors that I could use. I almost want to use the tyranids just for a different flavor, did they end up any good in here?

>>52662410
on CSM

How should I convert that cadian box to make them look, i dunno, more veteran?

>>52662497
That's the only gun they can get.

Foosloggin marine is always worse.

How are you supposed to set it up for more than 2 players in a campaign?

Just rotating who you face every match?

>>52662549
Or would the Necromunda campaign system work?

>>52662529
Wanting to keep them looking specifically Cadian or do you want your own custom looking regiment?

>>52662529

I'd pile on more ammo pouches, modern tactical vest style, and slightly distress their helmets and other equipment (tiny cuts and dents, could be done solely with paint). I'd also probably replace the heads with more grizzled looking ones, maybe with berets.

>>52662623
not really fussed. I've seen some good conversions using the scout bits but they might look too similar to scouts for armageddon.

>>52662529
Forgeworld has a "veteran upgrade" pack that you can get if you are lazy. Or you can just exchange some heads. I'll be getting that forgeworld pack tho

>>52662635
Gonna list random companies that I prefer. Check em out and let inspiration take hold from there

>Victoria Lamb
>Mad Robot
>Max Mini
>Kromlech
>Anvil Industries
>Forgeworld

>>52655035
>>52655001
Post your team, it's better content than endless discussions about balance. It is good netiquette to not post your creations multiple times in the same thread though.

>>52654945
>>52655024
Don't be such a stick in the mud

>>52655816
Is it though? In Mordheim and Necromunda was king.

>It's the retarded Harlequins are ghosts discussion again.

Do you need line of sigh to move to a place? Since otherwise the whole point is moot, since you can't see through walls. And if you can, you could argue the Harlequin jumped through it.

But guys, let's also discuss Grey Knights and Tyranids again, such refreshing topics!

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My Fallen List for C&C

Aspiring Champion w Plasma Pistol - Assault Blade - Camo Cloak : 295pts
Marine Gunner w Plasma Gun - Camo Cloak 215pts
Marine Gunner w Plasma Gun - Camo Cloak 215pts
Marine w Bolter : 155pts
Marine : 120pts

Pretty much maximum plasma loadout to start with. In some test games I tabled an insane clown posse in 10 minutes with overwatched plasma guns. So that felt nice.

Initial campaign plans going forward. On first rearm get a bolter for the poor knife wielding marine, camo cloaks for the bolter marines, and red dots for the plasma gunners.

From there, try to rush scavenger so I can actually buy marines on resupply and start increasing my marine numbers where possible. If I have to fall back on cultists then fair enough, but ideally I want to just have fallen marines in this squad.

If I can get gunslinger on my lord for dual plasma pistol shenanigans all the better.

Thoughts?

>>52662827
Add some cultist fodder, you can use proxies for that if you don't want the whole deranged cultist look.

>>52662779
*shooting was king

In what situations can you possibly justify using a Solitaire? The stats are absolutely bonkers but if it gets ganged upon, the game is more or less over for the Solitaire player.

Is he best used in a situation where you're facing a super elite kill team that outguns you but lacks the bodies to counterattack effectively?

>>52662827
look cool anon
just be aware that the power armor isn't nearly as reliable in this as it is in 40k
the local CSM player at my store hit a stroke of bad luck , he's lost 3 marines in 2 missions, 1 of which got captured by orks , and is now forced to attempt a rescue with 4 guys (though his khorne marine picked up frenzy and is ooa for the next mission so maybe 3)
and that's why i highly reccoment cultists to any CSM player

>>52662894
he's pretty much an I win button in the raid,hit and run and prisoner rescue

>>52662894
fluffwise and possibly gameplay wise I think he works best in a objective/assassinate game where you have the element of surprise.

>>52662894
If your team has suffered heavy casualties and you have lot of members missing the next game. At that point you might as well solitaire.

>>52662818
for someone who hasn't been the the general before and is considering modeling a team of each, it actually is. I wasn't around for second edition days, and am curious to know if either of them are hot garbage before I spend the efffort

>>52662748
Affirmative. I'm heading downtown in a moment to get some modelling and painting supplies since I haven't painted in a while, so I'll probably have a picture later this afternoon.

>>52663166
Discussion about those teams is fine, however we had the same discussion about them for 5 threads in a row.

Basically what I understand is that they are both the epitome of 'elite teams'. Those have always been very divisive in games like this. Some even went so far to call Elves in Mordheim, impossible. It's too early to tell if those teams are impossible to balance, what helps is that recruiting replacements is difficult due to high costs. That should balance out their individual power, since replacing lost teammates is very costly.
I would adapt my strategy and try to kill some expensive team members, and then bottle out before they can inflict a lot of damage. You might give them a free win, but replacing one GK gunner is very costly, and almost impossible if you aren't lucky.

How many of you fine gentleman are picking up some classic models to make your warband from? I'm tempted by some 2nd edition nid warriors.

>>52663576
I got a sergeant Telion to make my Scout sergeant. Not really a classic, but still.

>>52663576
I'm painting up some classic cityfight metal Cadians. Won't have a lot of crazy options but they'll look cool

>>52663430
Slight difference to Necromunda and especiqlly Mordheim is that weapons are much more powerful. Even the biggest bugger is in danger of getting one-shotted from Krak Grenade.

>>52663576
I'll just use my Cadian Veterans. I got 60 of them due 5th edition 40k so I pretty much have every option already

>>52663762
True, but in Mordheim you'd equip your shadow warriors with longbows and they'd be able to rape face. At least in Shadow War you have to pay an expensive weapon tax. I mean if I get lucky and eliminate your GK gunner in the first game, I've scored majorly.

>>52663576

I picked up quite a few Steel Legionnaires

Does using a markerlight reveal a hiding pathfinder? If not then my new recruits can just have markers for one game and act like spotters.

>>52664174
Nope. They are not shooting attacks.

>>52662448
Only 50% of your team can be recruits (cultists), they rank up after 3 games then count as normal troops so you can get more cultists but for the most part they are just meatshields and hype-men/moral-boosters

>>52662448

Use Genestealer cult rules for that. The extra limbed/clawed troops can easily represent mutants.

>>52664689
Or alternatively just represent marines as big armoured cultists/mutants. Like scalies in Oldcromunda.

>>52664827
>Oldcromunda
Do we really need a term for a game that already had a name?

>>52654846

Zombies should be able to be pinned by high impact weapons. It's not just a matter of being afraid (Or else marines would never be pinned) but also being knocked off balance/off your feet.

Summoning is kinda bullshit, as it allows you to endlessly increase your numbers in a way no other faction can.

>>52664866
To clarify, it was typed with a sentiment of whimsy, not for the purposes of clarification.

>>52656462

It's the same wording as Jump Packs.

Can a guy with a jump pack not go past a 2" barrier?

>>52664866
who hurt you anon?

>>52662894

He's really good if you have multiple guys on the bench due to injuries.

He's also very, very good against more elite teams. He'll eat the entire grey knight team alive but Orks will give him trouble (As they'll just hose down any melee he's in and not care about the lost dude)

>>52664866
Actually the term makes light sense. Oldmunda is Necromunda but sometimes when people say Necromunda they mean the Community Edition which is different.

>>52665060
>>52664827
Fair enough
>>52664915
don't be such a candy-ass

>>52664961
Only way for GK (or just about anyone really) to deal with him is somehow stop him. S7 weapons/webbers and overwatch works. When shot at overwatch the clown is easier to hit (no -2 from running) and hitting him will knock him down. After you get him to hit the deck you can try to cause that average 9 wounds on him to get him down. Easier said than done.

Damn solitaire is the reason why my IG team has leader with plasmapistol and 3 specialists with plasma/plasma/H.flamer and multiple krak grenades. If the clown charges i can get few overwatches on him and if I hit, its kraking time next turn while all my S7 weapons point their weapons and prepare for another overwatch.

>>52654812
No as thay are shit most of the times. Products of backwater inbread kids drunk on moonshine and with cancerridden brain. Monthy Python enough for you ?

>>52665213
For fucks sake just try to play on normal table with lods of terrain and not flat space and see that he is not that good ... he is a gimick - if you use hight ladders and positioning you will most often times were him down.

Anyone made a Not!-Spryer Assassins Execution Force Formation yet?

>>52665213
> S7 weapons

It look like you didn't read the rule.
Solitaire have true pin immunity in this game. He can never be pinned. Including pinned from the muscle skill.

>>52665347
Oh crap you're right. Oh well! Back to drawing board and original tactic where we feed him multiple few juves and bottle out asap.

>>52665261

I know the guy making a SOB list statted up the Callidus assassin as a Spec Ops but I think that's all so far.

>>52665568

Eh, he's nasty but he's far from unbeatable. He still needs LOS to charge you even if he can go through walls and he's got no ranged weapons.

Let him eat a dude then hose his T3, didn't run this turn ass with sustained fire weapons.

>>52665652
>He still needs LOS to charge
You can charge people you dont see within 2x your initiative. And since Solitaire has I10 he can charge 20" away.

>>52665652
>he cannot go through walls

There. Fixed it for you.

>>52665726

RAW, he can. It needs errata but for now it's right.

What's the most sensible way to set up a tyranid kill team for non-campaign play?

>>52665652
Everyone always assumes that the Harlie player will act like an idiot and charge the first thing he sees. With a 20 inch blind charge, he charges the guys who allow him to receive some cover, or some amount of reduction of shots.
>>52665739
In this bloody thread we had this argument. Walls are not terrain.

>>52665750
>In this bloody thread we had this argument. Walls are not terrain.

Walls are LITERALLY one of the examples of impassable terrain

>>52665757
Walls are not terrain in the way that 2" high barricades are. Below are the posts that solved the arguments.
>>52656703
>>52656745
>>52656709

>>52665782

That's hardly solved. That's people stating opinions.

The teleporation packs and being a ghost use the same wording as the harlequin.

>>52665757
Another way of saying this is a barricade is 2" inch high, 1 inch across. Does the Imperial guardsman move 3" or 1"?

>>52665801

The rules are unclear but I'd say 1" if they are equally high on either side as he's not changing heights.

>>52665750
>Walls are not terrain.

Where do you get that idea from? Basically everything other than the models themselves is terrain.

>>52665798
Also they don't use the same wording.
Necron wording
The fighter may move up to 10" in any direction, ignoring the normal restrictions for terrain, however you may not end this move in impassable ground.
>Ignoring the normal restrictions for terrain
This means that things like walls and barricades don't exist
Harlequin wording
A fighter with a flip belt treats all terrain as open ground for the purposes of movement, but can’t end its move on impassable terrain.
>Treats all terrain as open ground
This means the Harlequin still follows the rules for moving as though it is open ground. Therefore, they can move up and over walls freely, but spend inches to move over them, since it is open ground.
>>52665872
Walls are not terrain in the way that a 1.5 inch obstruction is terrain.Thats what I mean.

>>52665890

That is kinda counter to how movement has otherwise worked. Jump Pack troops don't need to spend movement to land on buildings.

This really could do with errata/clarification by GW.

>>52665890
>This means the Harlequin still follows the rules for moving as though it is open ground. Therefore, they can move up and over walls freely, but spend inches to move over them, since it is open ground.

Although theoretically, they could move around/over/under a wall via the ceiling if they have enough move right?

>>52665890

>Walls are not terrain in the way that a 1.5 inch obstruction is terrain.Thats what I mean.

That's kinda iffy. I'm not sure the book actually says that anywhere.

>>52654812
How many models are there per team?
Is there biker stuff? I have an ork biker gang
Should I hop into the hype train? Is the game good compared to Kill Team or Infinity?

>>52665934
I would say a Jump pack troop can't jump to a point on a building that is 10 inches along the floor but 15 inches from the model.
>>52665948
Yes, but due to distances, it will almost always be less efficient to do this.

>>52665974
10 for most
15 for GSC
20 for Ork.

No biker, because biker going up ladder taking cover and go up ladder make sense.

Kill Team are cancer.

Also, read the rule, everything you ask was in there. Read it and judge it for yourself.

>>52665974
>How many models are there per team?
Varies, Orcs and GSC have more, more eilite factions have less, most have 10.
>Is there biker stuff?
No. Idea is its in the Underhive, not really bike or vehicle territory.
>Should I hop into the hype train?
CHOO CHOO!!!!!
no way near as complex as infinity, basically makes kill-team (the GW one) obselete

>>52665976

So you want the jump pack troop's player to sit there and do math for how his arc goes distance-wise? Jump packs are not exactly WIGE, they don't just trace the ground or travel in straight lines.

>>52666007
Not an arc, a straight line. If a jump pack moves a guy 10 inches forward then it can't take him 15 inches diagonally. You have a tape measure that is by nature straight. Its not hard. Stop making a strawman.

>>52666041

Or you can just measure 10 inches straight as he's moving like it's open ground so he can ignore the wall.

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>>52666076

>>52665739
Not at all. The rule may be poorly worded, but interpreting it as being able to move through walls is just wrong. It's not even a matter of opinion. Over the wall, yes sure, and spend the appropriate amount of movement for the distance. Through it, absolutely not.

>>52665976
yeah, that's what is what balances it out. Cuz going spiderman over the ceiling will eat up your movement and or make the move impossible.

>>52666076
Why are people so dead set on ignoring walls. It's A: super hypothetical (unless you can show me your table and the scenarios where this discussions was actually relevant) and
B: Complete bullshit from a 'realism' standpoint

>>52666152

Why not? The wall is now open terrain rather than impassable.

Walls are clarified by the very book as impassable terrain.

>>52666163

Mostly because people keep saying 'This rule is fine' when I comment that it needs errata/clarification due how poorly it's worded.

>>52665757
No it's not. Firstly, walls are not impassable. You can climb them. Secondly, they're not listed under impassable terrain because they're walls, and not terrain. Thirdly you people who are arguing harlies can move through walls are not even thinking clearly. They're meant to be amazing acrobats, not ghosts. If you want to argue that they can somersault over a wall I'm cool with that. Just spend the appropriate distance of movement. A piece of terrain or a wall/barrier does not go away because a unit has a flip belt. It only means they can traverse it without penalty.

>>52666192
Well yes, this thread demonstrates it needs errata, cuz people have once again demonstrated that they are retarded and will use anything to get an 'advantage'.

>>52666152

>Over the wall, yes sure, and spend the appropriate amount of movement for the distance. Through it, absolutely not.

Would someone travelling over the no-longer-impassable river need to count the distance to the riverbed?

>>52665798
>The teleporation packs and being a ghost use the >same wording as the harlequin

And that's the cause of the confusion. It's more similar to the flesh hooks of the tyranids, but one could argue that a harlie that vaults over a wall for example, drops down safely on the other side, so either they spend movement both up and down, or you can argue that they just spend movement up and drop down for free on the other side. They do *not* teleport to the opposite edge of the terrain piece or wall/barrier.

>>52666250

Nigga >>52665890

>>52665890
This anon is correctly interpreting the rule.

>>52666192
They are open Terrain. They don't vanish. The Necron Wording means that Necrons ignore restrictions due to terrain, like a wall. Jump pack and flip belt wording say it is open ground. You now have to factor in the you simply are moving vertically as well as horizontally, not that you are able to phase.
>>52666216
Nah you can move along the water cause you are either flying or so light you can skim.

Interestingly, when this argument happened before, it was me and another harlie player agaisnt a non harlie player.
>>52666250
They don't use the same wording see my post here
>>52665890

>>52665948
We're talking freestanding walls here. Not interior walls in buildings. A freestanding wall, fence or other similar barrier can be traversed. Harlies just has a somewhat easier time doing this.

>>52666210

>Firstly, walls are not impassable. You can climb them. Secondly, they're not listed under impassable terrain because they're walls, and not terrain.

To directly quote then:

>Impassable
>Much of Hive Archeron is impossible to move over or through. Corrosive Pools, enveloping layers of toxic ash, walls, collapsed tunnels and so on are all impassable.

The book directly lists walls as impassable terrain.

I fully agree it SHOULDN'T be impassable terrain (To separate 'Can't move through normally' from 'This blocks stuff entirely') but as it's written, they are.

>>52666076
The wall is still there though. It doesn't go away. The harlie will have to move up it and down on the other side and that eats up movement.

>>52659450
Has a couple of odd errors, but overall seems good.

The error I keep running into is having Tyranid Warriors keep their starting pair of Scything Talons and only buying 1 other pair of weapons. Gives the error of too many selections referencing the starting equipment.

Ignoring that though, it's pretty solid.

>>52666297
Ah right, earlier people were arguing that you could go through interior walls and that sort of shit.

>>52666278

>Interestingly, when this argument happened before, it was me and another harlie player agaisnt a non harlie player.

Honestly I think it's less people arguing it to try to get an advantage and more people arguing 'This makes sense' vs 'The rules say'. I don't think anyone here would actually allow Ghost Elves. I'm arguing for it working that way and I think it's dumb as fuck. I just think it's dumb as fuck that needs fixing.

>>52666192
No, they're "clarified" as effectively impassable if it's higher than 2". Walls can be traversed even without a flip belt. What the flip belt does is allow the harlie to run up a wall and down the other side as if moving across open ground. They're supposed to be acrobats. Not ghosts. I agree the rule is poorly worded tho.

>>52666216
Yes. Compare it to jumping across a gap. You need to spend the movement needed even though your unit is flying through the air as it jumps.

>always wanted to play necrons
>Diddnt want to start building a third army
>Build a necron kill team for day 1
>They are outmatched by everyone
Why do all the Factions I pick have absolutely fucking gimped stats?

>>52666269
Yes. I know. We had this discussion at length yesterday. And every day more people pop up that go "mah harlies are ghost"

>>52666368

Yeah. I'd have gone with different rules for jump packs and harlequin flip belts. While they ARE agile, I wouldn't say that that solo elf bastard can jump 12" straight up (Though he could run up a wall doing so) while I would accept a jump pack doing it.

They needed something more like what the Genestealer/Flesh Hooks have.

>>52666278
Well, assuming you're running on the water. Imo that example is more like jumping across a gap, and you still need to spend the movement to reach the other side.

>>52666278
Yes, they don't use the same wording. I'm just saying they work similarly. I used it as an example.

>>52666000
Thanks.
And double check'd.

>>52666006
Thx

>>52666302
Alright, I see that now. I read too fast before. However, even if harlies treat walls as open ground they still need to spend the movement to run up one side and down the other. They still don't teleport.

>>52666418
Agreed.

>>52666465
>However, even if harlies treat walls as open ground they still need to spend the movement to run up one side and down the other. They still don't teleport.

That's the main issue I think people are having. The rules don't say either way and while, in universe, that makes sense...well the rules are very unclear about it. There is a reasonable rules argument for 'Being treated as open means it won't delay me at all'. Sorta like how in 40k a jump pack troop can go right over the top of a wall during his movement and not lose any.

Especially with that whole 'Collapsed tunnels' part. As a collapsed tunnel would have literally no way through it BUT the clown treats it as open.

GW really didn't think this through well and I honestly think everyone is agreeing with that. It's just people mostly people seeing others arguing that it works that way and assuming they are trying to get an elfvantage vs people seeing others say they wouldn't allow it and thinking they are arguing that the GW rules are perfectly fine.

So you know, pointless shitshow arguments. Business as usual.

>>52666526
But you still have to spend movement when traversing open ground. Even if you jump. The rules are pretty clear on this, so I really don't get why some people think they automatically get free movement through teleportation with a flip belt.

It needs an errata for sure. If only to stop these inane arguments. I've seen them pop up for three days straight now. It's getting tiresome.

>>52666403
I played Necrons against Skitarii, Orks and Space Marines, I only won 1 game but I wouldn't say it was that unbalanced.

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>>52666727
Necronplayer here; they get their toy which makes them literal ghosts, but has the same wording. The phase shifter.

>Can necrons walk straight through walls as implied by the item?

>>52666727
>>52666919
My bad.
Necron items specifies that you can move -through- all terrain as if it was open terrain.

The Harly item only specify you treat terrain as open for the purpose of movement.

Okay, I know I'm being retarded here, but can someone help my dyslexic ass, what are the parry rules. I know they are on page 42, but the pdf of the rules doesn't have pagination and I can't seem to find them

>>52667124
If you have parry, you can reroll one of your opponent's dice in CC.
>He rolls a 6, you reroll it.

Does anyone have any advice on equipping Imperial guard specialists? I was thinking of 3 plasma guns out of the gate, since you can't save resources between games, but it feels like it might be overkill.

I was planning on something along these lines to start with.

Leader with laspistol
3x specialist with plasma gun
4x veterans with lasguns
1x guardsman with lasgun

Should be bang on 1000, but I was considering dropping a plasma gun to get the full 10 bodies, and maybe trading a few lasguns for shotguns.

>>52666727

The thing isn't saying that you get free movement, the question is if 'open ground' allows people to just walk through it. Like my example there with collapsed tunnels.

It's part of the issue of classing walls as impassable.

>>52662274
>>Astra Militarum Veteran Sergeant and Tau Pathfinder Shas'ui should have A 2.
Guard Sarg's have one attack and WS 4 based on Based old second ed stats that this based game is based on.

Based.

>GENERAL BEACON, Based guard captcha is based.

>Based

>>52667177
You also can only make them reroll if they roll higher than you, so if you both roll 6's you can't Parry.

>>52667360

>Guard Sarg's have one attack and WS 4 based on Based old second ed stats that this based game is based on.

That would make SOB interesting to see turn up. They were S3 T4 back then.

>>52666919
Why are you replying to me? I know Necrons can phase.

>>52667124
>>52667177
You can force them to reroll one die. Not roll it for them. :)

>>52667414
Did not know that, nice catch Anon!

>>52667228
I don't really see the problem. It doesn't say you can move *through* the terrain. It just says you treat it as open ground. Like any terrain that slows you down in any way you still have to move across it and measure inches accordingly.

>>52667596
Compere flip belt to wings in dark eldar ....

>>52667777
No.

>>52667450
>That would make SOB interesting to see turn up. They were S3 T4 back then

Hah. No. They never were.

I know you have to choose between rearming or recruiting but can you buy gear for your new guys while recruiting them? And whats the deal with buying skills/stats?

>>52667972
Brainless fuck

>Girlfriend plays Harlies
>Charging 12" to get to my guy on the other side of a building
>Asks if my Autocannon gunner gets his overwatch shot because the clown would be jumping over the building to get to my troop
>Tell her about the ruling and how it's RAW that the clown could just go through the building and not give my overwatch a chance e
>She says that's dumb and we agree that you just take whatever path around the obstacles.

Wow it's fucking nothing. If you discuss it with your opponent, things should be fine.

That said, I think jumping 12" straight up is fine because I assume their belts are just anti-gravity things that they activate and deactivate to do sweet flips and shit.

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How are my Wych Bytches in this game can they do anything other that gather dust?

>>52668233
They're not similar.

>>52667724
Reinhardt?!

Confused on multiple combat. My opponent runs 2 guys into one of my guys. He survives till next turn. Then I run a guy into base contact with one of his guys. Does that mean he is forced to fight the new guy? What happens to my other guy and his other guy still locked in combat?

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>>52668041

Had to drag up my 2e Sisters of Battle codex just to prove you wrong.

Back then a Cannoness was T5.

>>52668806
You choose who attacks in the combat. Any additional people give +1 WS and +1 A each to the fighter.

>>52668806
>>52669186
the outnumbering player chooses which model attacks first , combat is then resolved as normal
if the outnumbered fighter is still up at the end the outnumbering player chooses the second model to attack, this model gains a +1ws bonus and 1 extra attack die
if the outnumbered fighter is still alive the outnumbering player chooses a third model to fight , this model receives a +2ws bonus and 2 extra attack dice
etc etc

>>52668806
>>52669186

Not exactly. Every model fights every other model that they're in base contact with. The player whose turn it is chooses the order of combats.

Even when ganged up on, the first combat a model makes will have no penalties. Every combat after the first gives a bonus to the enemy model. So in your example, you would have one guy fighting 2 enemy models (which he could do in whichever order you want) and one guy fighting one model. Depending on the order you resolve the combats in, you could end up having all of them roll evenly, or you could try to stack bonuses into one combat (and then end up getting hit back with a similar bonus)

>>52669339
>>52669404

"Outnumbering player chooses" is correct for order. Not sure how to resolve it when there's a clusterfuck of multiple models on each team base to base to base.

>>52662274
those are some hot opinions you're pushing in what is supposed to be an faq / errata suggestion friend
>toxic rounds probably should cost more. 40+20 points for a sniper rifle+tox rounds is rather cheap for automatic wounding + more punishing injury table that leaves you stuck there, and that the entire scout team can take and A-Mil can take on all their special weapons.
it also has a shitty close range modifier , can't be fired if moved and doesn't even lower bs and ws if you roll a 1 (which can go up to a 1-3 if you take a dok/apoc)
>Clearly state somewhere that plasma pistols use the low power profile in close combat
where is that even implied ?

>>52669474
>where is that even implied ?
Old necromunda/second edition 40k

>>52667124
Are you up to date? While the PDF does not have searchable terms it contains a clickable contents page.

There is also a separate section for individual pages, all are appropriately named and start with their in book page number.

https://mega.nz/#F!mUtQAAxS!1fjZcUJ94veAvCRBREeifw

If you meant google doc not PDF I would understand.