/epg/ - Eclipse Phase General

Over interplanetary distances, do RKVs have a significant advantage over an equally powerful laser or particle weapon?

>>52497719
Question is wrong. An energy weapon usually seeks to cook something, yeah? Think of an RKV as an asteroid. A really fast one. You can't really use energy weapons that are that 'big' because the power requirements are absurd. That's talking about the deathstar or something.

Okay, let's define an RKV properly. It's a big hunk of fuck you - which can be anything, really - accelerated up to near lightspeed. Charles Stross has a good one - they sit out in the oort cloud until activated, where they accelerate up to as close as they can get to lightspeed and shut off their drives. At that point, unless you saw it start the acceleration burn, it's pretty much invisible. And it's riding so hard on the tail of its own light that you can't prepare even if you do see it. Say someone launched one with magic technology an AU from earth at us, so there was no burn. They launch it at, say, .95c, travelling from its start point. It'd travel the distance in 504 seconds. Light would take 480 seconds. Give or take a bit because I'm too lazy to be exact. The big 'thing' about an RKV is that it's sitting on its light. You can't see it, or stop it, or prepare - it's 24 seconds behind the current light.

>>52497989

What about the limits of a RKV in EP? One of the points is that the mass has to be high enough to actually be an efficient energy delivery system but not very high since you are aiming at something like 10-15% speed of light and the energy cost is always exponential.

Thats just to say if there can be rings of anti-RKV around moons and planets that can just put themselves between the RKV and the target asuming a response window of minutes(so... they would have to be in low orbit and their only function would be mitigating damage)

>>52496611
>questions as to the PC's legitimacy ignored in favor of flashier topics
You must have replied to the wrong post. The PC's right to govern mars, the most populous planet in their empire, is a central question as to their legitimacy.

>their legitimacy already goes without saying
No it doesn't. Nobody has satisfactorily demonstrated that they have a legitimate claim to the land and people they claim to rule.

>>52498183
At very high speeds, like I said last thread, a few hundred kilos of ice would be fine. The fastest known ships are antimatter couriers in EP. I don't have the astrophysics background to do a mock up of an EP RKV for you. For most of EP, it'd be easier ot use conventional weapons, antimatter hand grenades, etc. The big thing for the RKV is how invisible it is.

Sure, you could surround a planet with huge rings of matter. That'd be a feat in itself. And they would have to be *huge* - this thing isn't going to stop until it runs out of momentum, and it has a *lot* of momentum at that speed. You'd outmass the planet. If you're doing macro-scale construction at that level, nobody cares about a piddly RKV. You're already God.

>>52498258
Er, easier to use conventional weapons rather than point a ship at something. Chances are they'd see that ship burning towards them and point a few weapons at it. Then take steps to eliminate the hypervelocity shrapnel that would result.

>>52497719

Yes.

They travel at speeds in which the information of their existence comes with lag.

They can't be tripulated so they don't carry much heat by themselves, and anything that has a cross section of around 20m^2 and is around 4k is very hard to see in space.

And mostly... the point of such weapons is that any RKV will put a big hole in a planet, deviate moons and vaporice small celestial bodies.

The one thing I keep on seeing from "Children of a Dead Earth" are the drones that fly in a circle squadron and unleash enough flashlights to melt anything that flies. Maybe thats one of the common space defenses? Laser drone squadrons.

>>52498279
The problem is even semi-RKV at 0.3c is insanely dangerous. Nothing stops attacker to use a ship that uses multi-warhead second stage.

Where close to the target second stage detaches and it is a couple dozen of missiles with chemical drives that choose separate targets and use drives to evade PD fire.

Even small missiles at 1 kg mass will deliver around a megaton of energy each.

>>52498369
No.

Small lasers can reach beyond a thousand km. If you want long range lasers you need large ships with large mirrors. This way you can reach up to around 1/2 light-second. Maybe even a full light second for some spinal designs.

For longer distances you'll need to use something like X-ray lasers but they are really hard to do without handwavium.

>>52498258
> I don't have the astrophysics background to do a mock up of an EP RKV for you

RKV are a matter of logistics, even we could just strap engines to something and let it accelerate for years to destroy that weird planet in proxima centauri that is looking bad at us.

>Sure, you could surround a planet with huge rings of matter.

I was thinking of satelites, in the order of tungsten blocks surrounded by powerfull engines, and not for completly stopping the RKV but at least diminishing its effects.

I know that a RKV with 4,5x10^14 J of kinetic energy is destructive, what I don't know is what happens when it simply finds an obstacle in the middle; does it vaporice turning into plasma? How much energy is efectively transferred? How much does the mass of the obstacle counts?

I know that if I hit a billiard ball with another billiard ball the energy will be transfered, what I don't know is what happens with these superhigh energy systems.

>>52498428
I think you're missing the point of an RKV. It's that you don't see it coming, not in time to act on it.

>>52498511
Okay, no, you're kind of fucked. Any 'satellite' or block of matter that is supposed to stop an RKV is either going to get annihilated and the RKV continue on, or the RKV is small enough that you could ignore it in the first place minus some small amount of damage. You can't really defend against them even if you can see them.

>>52498369

Laser drones in Chode seem to have other functions that require high precision but not high power; like specialiced radiator destroyers.

In fact I found that powerfull lasers fill pretty well the function of PD, but on the gigawatt range, making the 100 enemy nukes go pop at very long range.

And since range in space combat is king, you can bet that you would rather have high power lasers in a few battlefortresses in orbit with huge radiators, instead of a distributed killsat network.

Maybe it would be like that idea in projectrho of hollowing an asteroid and filling it inside with radiators.

>>52498572
It's one of the parts of the RKV. A really good part. The other is destroying everything on arrival.

In EP you probably can't make a full RKV without starting somewhere in Oort cloud and strapping a laser sail on the ship. Distances between planets are too small for ships to reach such high speeds.

>>52498602

Mmn... I see there is no whipple shield equivalent for RKV.

But there must be some way to be safe from such weapons, is either that or abandoning anykind of planet colonization and instead filling the orbits with space stations that can just avoid the RKVs.

>>52498648
>Maybe it would be like that idea in projectrho of hollowing an asteroid and filling it inside with radiators.

Radiators on the inside? Right...

>>52498715

Yes, its not so retarded when you have a lot of volume and mass to transfer that heat, which is exactly what an asteroid would give you.

>>52498653
And, yet again, I'll say it: There are easier ways to cause wholesale devastation than going through the rigmarole of building the infrastructure required to assemble something that can get close to that level of lightspeed. With EP technology, you'd need to go to another system. So you'd have something turning up centuries later to hit something that isn't there. Antimatter is common-ish. 10kg of antimatter would vaporise earth, blind every sensor in the solar system pointing at it, sterilize the face of the moon and wreck the habitats facing earth, probably shred Venus too. A grenade is enough for most habitats.

A laser sail? Really? Are you mad? Is this insane troll logic?

>>52498738
then why are you hollowing it?

>>52498694
No, there isn't a way to 'be safe'. If you used the station example, orbital mechanics would make it nearly impossible - if you just boosted yourself out of the flight path if the rkv, you're safe. You're also out of orbit, so I hope you have al ot of reaction mass. Not to mention any damage done to your station by the sudden and unexpected acceleration - so unless you're throwing giant spheres into orbit with perennially ready rocket boosters studding every side..

>>52498755

To extract all that rock that can't transfer heat well, process it and create an efficient heat absortion system in the inside.

I guess I should have said heat sinks instead.

>>52498745
Now that I think about it, producing 10kg of antimatter would probably involve almost as much energy as jamming something up to relativistic velocities.
>>52498801
Panels, not sinks. Heat is the big killer in space - all current stations have had *huge* radiator panels. It's a bastard to get rid of.

>>52498773
>You're also out of orbit

By definition I should have some boosters to compensate my orbital decay and I wouldn't require a very hard aceleration or displacement since the cross section of the RKV will probably be of a few meters.

The real problem is the window between knowing that an RKV is on my way and the acceleration capabilities of my station to actually alter the orbit(the RKV is not aiming at me, but rather where I will be so alter my orbit in advance is easy but a space station is clearly not designed for this)

>>52498851
Jesus fuck. Do you even read the posts of myself and the other person, or are you just hoping for the confirmation of your own theories on why everything works the way you want it to?

>>52498745
>10kg of antimatter would vaporise earth
Wat. 10kg of antimatter is just what? 430 Gigatons. Earth gonna shrug it like nothing. Chicxulub was much more powerful and Earth is still here.

>A laser sail? Really? Are you mad? Is this insane troll logic?
No. You make an antimatter ship. Strap a laser sail to it. And use both.

>>52498829
>Panels, not sinks. Heat is the big killer in space - all current stations have had *huge* radiator panels. It's a bastard to get rid of.

I know, its also the main reason stealth is either impractical or imposible in space.

But the point persists, you are making one giant battlefortress capable of absorving the heat of a powerfull laser for hours, it doesn't seem like a bad idea if you can pay for it.

>>52498851
You can't alter your orbit in advance. Against RKV you have around a minute at best.

>>52498878

You are asuming that the station would have to lose orbit, that is not true, increasing the radious of your orbit in 500m or 500m more eliptical is trivial and so I'm saying that since the RKV has a low cross section relatively to you its perfectly fine.

I'm also pointing out that the real limit is acceleration for an object that is not designed to accelerate fast, just to say that is hard but not imposible.

>>52497719
A particle beam is a gas-phase RKKV which will spread out significantly during flight. Lasers will inevitably lose collimation. RKKVs either hit or miss.

>>52498183
Potentially pretty scary with perfect conversion of energy (literally never going to happen, or even get close) the antimatter fuel tank of a Destroyer can accelerate about 740 tons to 90% of light. Ignoring relativistic mass gain, which means 740 tons weighs ~1700 tons at 90% c. That means the actual mass you can accelerate will be a lot lower, but I'm not doing the math to find out exactly what it is. Probably still tons, but not very many. Bear in mind that this is still the perfectly efficient version, so an actual one with say 5% efficiency may be able to accelerate 50 kg to that speed. That's still nasty, but it's within the realm of a nuclear weapon.

I don't really like those antimatter numbers, they seem way to high for the rest of the setting.

>>52498428
EP ships apparently have a practical max speed of .5% c, so the acceleration burn for a .3 c RKKV-ship is easily months. That's a lot of time to divise countermeasures, or even launch your own strategic weapons. A big sign saying "In three months or more you die!" kind of defeats the purpose of an RKKV.

The weapon which is published and fills the roll of an RKKV is the pebble-swarm system from X-Risks (not called that, so don't control-F that term). It basically synchronizes the launch of lots of small pebbles so a whole high speed asteroid appears out of nowhere right on top of the hab. It's a lot less responsive, but much sneakier than an RKKV.

>>52498369
I thought ultra-big death lasers running off of molten-containment reactors was the current big thing there. Has it changed again?

>>52498745
Holy shit check your math there, 10 kg of antimatter won't even get close to destroying earth.

>>52499189
> A big sign saying "In three months or more you die!" kind of defeats the purpose of an RKKV.
Well it works similar to nuclear weapons in our days. Even if you hit your enemy first it won't save you from their counter-attack. Everyone will die.

>>52498918
Against a cannon or magic RKKV you only have maybe a minute after it's fired. For a cannon you can see the huge structure changing facing to aim at something, and probably a bunch of energy signature changes as it prepares to fire. Dodging that should be possible, especially with FTL comms and how closely any RKKV installations would be monitored. (if any exist, as engineering a relativistic cannon weapon could easily be beyond transhumanity, or be impossibly massive).

A magic RKKV basically means the ETI is trying to fuck you, and that means that resistance probably means they remotely turn off all the molecular bonds in your space station or something equally crazy.

Rocket based RKKVs don't really have enough space to do a boost phase anywhere near their targets, and can be seen boosting very easily.

>>52499255
I don't think it's quite like that. In this case the missiles have already been launched, they just take a really long time to get anywhere. That's 3 months to devise countermeasures, or even just plan an evacuation. Intercepting an RKKV in it's boost phase should be possible, as should getting one as it coasts a great distance away.

>>52498232
Sorry. To be clear, your counter argument is what was ignored by the thread in favor of other things. I keep replying only to demonstrate that even if there are serious doubts to the consortium's claim to mars it gets swept under the radar and becomes a moot point.

Why do you even want an RKV in your EP game?

Just fucking email the players some nice exsurgent strains if you want the campaign to go out with a bang.

>>52502135

It would be interesting to have a Stargate-like game where the players are gatecrashers and find out about a plan of some rogue TITAN version of creating several RKVs that will destroy Mercury, Mars, Earth, Luna, Europa, Titan... in 30 years since launch.

>>52499356
>as engineering a relativistic cannon weapon could easily be beyond transhumanity
MARAUDER supposedly cracked that problem back in the 90s, albeit for an extremely small projectile. 200 years later it's conceivable that someone might scale it up.

>>52502722
A plasma toroid is not the same thing as an RKKV. We've also "cracked" it with the LHC, but that's not an RKKV either.

>>52497989
>An energy weapon usually seeks to cook something, yeah?
No. They generally seek to flash-vaporize small pieces of it fast enough that the expanding vapor carries away even more material with it.

>>52498311
>anything that has a cross section of around 20m^2 and is around 4k is very hard to see in space.
Luckily, nothing anywhere near the sun is that cold.

>>52502722
No, MARAUDER did not result in a working weapon system, though the results were useful for plasma beam confinement fusion.

>>52499189
>It basically synchronizes the launch of lots of small pebbles so a whole high speed asteroid appears out of nowhere right on top of the hab. It's a lot less responsive, but much sneakier than an RKKV.

This was stolen directly from 2312 by Kim Stanley Robinson, only that book made it way more plausible.

RKVs buildable by transhumans in this setting won't do much harm to planets

>>52507228
Is that a good read? I haven't read it.

>>52509153
Especially not against a planet with an atmosphere, where the vehicle will probably airburst very quickly.

>>52503504
If if it has the mass and the velocity, the guy at the far end won't know the difference.

>>52509810
>Especially not against a planet with an atmosphere, where the vehicle will probably airburst very quickly.
At such speeds burst won't save you. It will just transform into a plasma cone and burn everything.

>>52509810
>airburst

A 9x10^17J projectile impacting an atmosphere of the Earth would probably convert the atmosphere into a fireball with all that oxygen and flamable matter.

>find asteroid filled with exsurgent nastiness
>RKV it
>launch it at someone
>oh that's bad - luckily it will just create a fuckhuge plasma cone and torch our surface facilities
>people get out of their bunker
>OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD

:D

>>52511735
Ehh, considering that there will be multiple gigatons of energy in that blast I doubt only surface facilities will be damaged.

>>52511799
Technicalities mate. The point is that this provides a nice "oh shit" black swan event for the players.

You expect a disaster, but are given a brand new quarantine zone on Mars instead.

>>52511894
Ahh yes, that retarded part where exsurgent and TITAN shit somehow can survive energies capable of splitting atomic bonds.

>>52511919
>hurr durr what's lovecraftian horror and clarke's third law i dunno how to do scifi horror imma dum

The fact that it's so impossible for todays engineers (or EP engineers for that matter) makes it even more horrific.

>>52511929
Nah, it makes it retarded. Together with psi it completely kills the 'sci' part.

>>52510635
Sure, if by everything you mean a very localized area

>>52512061
You cannot realistically portray technology beyond-human-understanding by just coming up with technologies we can imagine today.

You need to use some imagination, some fantasy to come up with semi-realistic beyond-human technologies.

>>52512110
Well localized is a relative term. There are still gigatons of energy and after they impact the surface they will try to spread.

>>52510754
10^18 J of heat magically injected into Earth's atmosphere would raise the temperature by less than one thousandth of a degree.

>>52512127
Problem is the technologies imply certain things about physics of the setting. In this case implications are pretty shitty.

>>52511799
There wouldn't be multiple gigatons of energy. Not even close. Antimatter drives have very low efficiency.

>>52512150
>RKV asteroid with rocket
>before impact disengage rocket from asteroid
>fly rocket into the wake of the RKV's destruction

Oh so difficult.

>>52512187
>Antimatter drives have very low efficiency.
Wat

>>52512197
And how you are going magically to drop rocket speed from 0.9+c to <8km/s ?

>>52512201
First, over half of the annihilation energy is lost as pions and neutrinos. Next, over half of the remaining energy goes into your radiators rather than your propellant. Then, 99% of that energy is carried away in the propellant. Then, the tsiolkovsky equation rears its ugly head and reduces it by probably a factor of five.

>>52512263
Compared to other drives it is still much better.

I also don't see how it stops a chunk of metal moving at near light speed from having gigatons of energy in it. Or how it stops from it impacting a target and transforming it into a molten glass and plasma clouds.

What happens when you fire two RKV's at each other?

>>52512364
Grand Moff Tarkin high fives you.

>>52512324
No, it's actually considerably worse than most

>>52512324
>a chunk of metal moving at near light speed from having gigatons of energy in it.
If we assume 100% efficient conversion of matter to kinetic energy without considering the tsiolkovsky equation, you would still need more than 50% of the mass of the final projectile in antimatter to achieve that.

>>52512479
And who cares? 50%? 99%? As long as target is vaporised what's the difference?

>>52513667
A factor of several hundred difference in necessary antimatter

>>52513676
In EP antimatter is measured in tons for major players. So they are perfectly fine.

>>52512150
Can you use an RKV in a way similar to a nuke-powered x-ray laser?

If that is possible, you can put an RKV-powered x-ray laser inside the RKV, and make that laser shoot out some laserbeam coded with some exsurgent code.

Any system that detects the laser gets infected.

>>52513844
That's no where near enough

>>52514004
Only if they execute the code

>>52514004
>>52514103
What about putting a basilisk in the laser beam?

>>52514200
They typically aren't interpretted by eye.

>>52514715
I mean, use the laser to burn a basilisk into fucking mountains, a moon, a planetary surface or something similar.

>>52514051
Why? 1 kg of "payload" even at 0.3c will have around 10^16 J. Due to requirements for drive size it probably will be around 10^4-10^5 kg or something similar.

The retarded destroyer design from the core book has 150 tons of antimatter. And Mars, Jovians and Titan all have at least a dozen of them. That's not counting battleships/dreadnoughts and smaller ships like couriers that too use antimatter.

>>52514785
Too unreliable. You'll need to drop a probe first to get readings on soil/stone composition. Than you'll need to predict weather and so on, and so on.Or your basilisk will have too many mistakes in it to work.

And even then it have a chance to work only on more advanced civilisations with satellites. Primitives will never receive your message because by the time they will be able to read it will be destroyed by weather and geological processes.

>>52514998
Because bad efficiency plays poorly with the rocket equation. No matter how you slice it, an antimatter rocket RKV will do quite a few orders of magnitude less damage than a bomb using the same antimatter.

This is totally ignoring the low thrust of higher efficiency systems, which would necessitate light years of run-up distance.

File: Overseer.jpg (231KB, 1600x880px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 1600x880px

>>52498311
But if you can use a particle beam to accelerate a weapon towards the target, why not turn it around and use a weapon to accelerate a particle beam towards the target?

>>52516624
Dispersion

>>52515535
But there is no other way to get a craft up to such a high speed besides antimatter. If the damage was the sole point of RKV it would have been much cheaper to just throw a couple dozen fusion bombs at your target. Antimatter costs too much to produce in high quantities but as a substitute for plutonium in fusion bombs it would be okay.

>>52516624
We have all these amazing ideas of what the spaceships of the future are going to be like. Gigantic titans of war and metal throwing death like Zeus from upon Olympus. But in reality, they're are going to be fucking tubes with rockets at one ends, laser/warhead at the other, and retros dotted around the exterior.

...

Although, we could go the WH40K route and just glam them up with some useless gilding/architecture.

Which brings up a question. How/Would Transhumans decorate the interior/exterior of their Hab/Spaceship/Colony dome?

>>52517324
Yes, but in EP the antimatter production is not high enough to use RKVs as planet killers, or probably effectively at all.

>>52512061
>psi powers don't belong in the genre that birthed them
This is why Trump is president, folks.

zo I've never played eclipse phase and i have 3 questions.

1. are there aliens?
2. what is the setting like?
3. how does combat stack up?

>>52529679
>1. are there aliens?
Yes, most are extinct, but the Factors exist, and are pretty weird. They're sketchy amoeba-like star traders.
>2. what is the setting like?
It's a transhumanism heavy fairly hard sci-fi solar system with some exoplanets, and more social orders than you can shake a stick at. I'm about to go to bed so I'm skipping a lot of detail, but it's a really neat setting set 10 years after an AI related near-apocalypse.
>3. how does combat stack up?
It's ok. Kind of like Shadowrun but less of a train wreck. Pretty complicated, and not really the focus of the game like it is in D&D. It tends to be very lethal, but all the transhumanism means getting killed isn't as bad.

>>52528884
To be entirely fair, while the names have changed over time, psi-powers were actually birthed in Sanskrit epics.

>>52529679
> 1. are there aliens?
Yes. Transhumanity has made contact with the Factors. They're weird fungi aliens who are super secretive and show up every now and then to trade mostly useless junk. No cool tech.

Evidence of extinct alien civilizations has been found through the gates (see below).

>2. what is the setting like?
Bits of everything scifi. You can get your cyberpunk (classic and post) on Mars. Exploration on exoplanets through the gates (think stargate but scarier, weird artifacts of unknown origin).

Most people either love it or hate it. /tg/ likes to foam at the mouth that the writers are liberal hippies who think socialism magically works perfectly.

Notable features are that nobody really dies anymore. Brains can be digitized (your ego). These can be backed up and copied. Most people have super dense backup black boxes in their spinal columns called cortical stacks they can be retrieved from after death.

>3. how does combat stack up?
Speed is KING. Speed 4 combat monsters will dominate combat unless you throw equally fast NPCs at them or overwhelm them with numbers. Both make it trick to not murder the shit out of the less combat focused PCs.

>>52530128
Don't forget the cosmic horror events.

No amount of combat skills will save you from basilisks.

>>52530217
Oh, yeah. I suppose I did leave out an explanation of the default campaign.

>>52529679
Anyway. The setting is wide and any weird sort of philosophy you can think of has probably set up a habitat on an asteroid/space station/moon/exoplanet that is devoted to it. Ceres is ruled by an octopus mafia. Titan is a direct digital democracy. Mars is run by Hypercorps (think Mega but better). Jupiter's moons are run by bio-purists. Feel free to have fun with that.

You can run whatever kind of campaign you can think of really. But the default one is that the PCs are members of Firewall. A secret conspiracy dedicated to ensuring The Fall never happens again. (The Fall involved AI going rogue and nuking the Earth, killing 95% of humanity).

This involves fighting terrible mind shattering creations of the TITANS (the bad AI). which range from spooky machines to biohorror exsurgents, to basilisk hacks which hack your brain just by getting you to look at it.

Firewall does whatever they need to do to contain and eliminate these threats. Basically think Delta Green in space future.

So is there any way to have horror in this game that doesn't come from existential or cosmic horror? I want to do something like the original Alien where a single creature stalks people on a derelict habitat, but if the PCs can just go "ayy lmao i can see u thru walls" then it seems kinda pointless. I don't want to force PCs to be sleeved in shitty morphs for that either.

PCs can't permanently die, ever. Unless they're fucking morons. They should have no reason to fear anything at all if death is super cheap and easy to come back from.

I mean existential horror is cool and all but there comes a point where the questions of "is the backup of yourself a REALLY YOU? Do you DIE when you egocast?!?" becomes kinda stale, especially when no one outside the Jovian Republic gives a shit about questions like that.

>>52531128
>PCs can't permanently die, ever. Unless they're fucking morons. They should have no reason to fear anything at all if death is super cheap and easy to come back from.

Frequent death, especially frequent violent death, means the Stress is going to accumulate pretty fast until your character is permanently catatonic.

>>52532473
What about using Psychosurgery, and or psychotherapy from muse? Edit away memories, boom done. Or in the case of psychotherapy, remove SV, boom done.

Even if your ego goes catatonic, just restore from backup. Basically, there's no real consequences of dying or going insane in this game.

>>52532594

Editing away the memories adds more Stress. Psychotherapy reduces your Stress, but you still can't die too often, or you'll accumulate Stress faster than you can heal it.

If your Ego goes catatonic and you restore from backup, you lose all the Rez you acquired since you backed up. (Admittedly, not that big an incentive given how little Rez is worth.)

>>52532594
>What about using Psychosurgery, and or psychotherapy from muse?
Both have a non-zero chance of failure, Failure would drive characters further mad.

>Edit away memories, boom done.
Nope, not done. They'll figure out they're missing memories and go mad trying to find what they're missing.

>Or in the case of psychotherapy, remove SV, boom done.
SV is just a number. You'd be advised to roleplay the psychotherapy sessions.

>Even if your ego goes catatonic, just restore from backup.
See the point related to editing memories.

>Basically, there's no real consequences of dying or going insane in this game.
News flash: there's no real consequences to any game. What, do you want players to kill themselves when their character dies?

>>52528884
Psionics was birthed in fantasy and con artistry

>>52528884

Sci-fi also birthed aliens that look like humans but ridges on their foreheads, but that doesn't mean Star Trek aliens wouldn't look out of place in Eclipse Phase.

>>52533100
Science fiction was birthed in fantasy and con artistry. Don't you remember that science fiction began as pulp fiction?

>>52533271
First off, no I don't remember it because I'm not ancient.

Second, pulp fiction is not equivalent to fantasy and con artistry.

>>52530128
>Speed 4 combat monsters will dominate combat

How does one make these sorts of PCs?

Neurachem goes up to two only.

>>52534135

Neurachem: +2
Reflex Booster: +1
MRDR: +1
Unconscious Lead: +1

>>52534940
Huh, only now do i know they stack, no rule says they don't i guess.

>>52531128
The real horror in EP isn't about death.

The real horror in EP is all the horrible things that can be inflicted on your consciousness.

Which can go from that copy of yours that bled out on a mission on Mars getting copied into some TITAN virtual hell where they eternally fall through an bottomless pit made out of lemon-juice soaked cheese graters.

Or it could be something like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZowK0NAvig
How do you deal with some entity that's in multiple places at the same time? Now do you deal with some entity that's standing right next to your unconscious original body?

You can do some pretty fucked up shit in EP as long as you have the imagination for it.

>>52531128
Exhuman. Make some neat predator type. Or maybe someone on the station stole something from him and now he is here to show what happens to those who mess with his stuff.

Sleeve him into some kind of stealth-killy morph with all the exhuman advantages. He breaks the mesh and locks the station down. No egocasting, no flying away on a spaceship because docking clamps won't open. All station-defense lasers now under his control and no one can leave even in a spacesuit cause they will be shot.

Players need either to find out who did all this shit and kill him or they need to run away. While they are trying not to panic exhuman methodically eradicates people on the station.

>>52539262
So essentially pull out the rug from underneath the players and have their mission be:
A: Stopping the menace
B: Override the station protocols, blow the reactor and sleeve/escape out of there if the menace is basically Jason Vorhees in space.

However, I'm thinking if they resleeve there is a chance they might bring back a virus which overrides their morphs into participating in interstellar Nigerian Prince Scams, thereby indebted them with major crime syndicates thereby ramping up the difficulty for future missions.

In short, stressful resleeving has a high likelihood for negative traits to manifest.

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>>52540534
>built like an imperial star destroyer fucked a battle barge
>symbol of a 'heroic fleet of underdogs' opposed to the brutalist inhumanity of new technologies
>one that's heavily built up and sits on a trade bottleneck glowering at the commerce and tourism buzzing past them

What's a good name for a singularity seeker/exhuman hab? So far all I've come up with is Strange Aeons, but I feel like that reference is a little too on the nose.

>>52541088
Amber Codon

>>52541088
S̢̺̱̮̠̦͍̫̦͓͇̱̞̭̭̝̥̪̈̿̓̓̍ͣ̐̃̊̐͗̈́͆̕͝͠ḩ̵̺̫̦͖̭̘̽̃͋̅͛i͍̙͈̪̻͍͈͈̩̳͙͇̻̯̻ͪ͋̃ͪ̎̾̽̋ͪ͊͒ͫ̃̆́t̴̛̘̺̻̯͚̠̝̮̦͓̘͖̦͈̭̫̊̎͆̃̍ͪ̽̈́̽͗̋́͝ͅṫ̶̨̞̖̰͖̫ͫͭ͊̒̏ͩ͞ȉ̸̧̘͓̥̙̽̾ͤͣ̀̚ñ̶̨̡̼͖̤̘͖̪͇̖̌ͨ̆̈́ͮ͑́͝g̸̡̠̥̳̻̣͙͇̱̘̲͍̹̗͈̤̿̓͊ͧ̾̚͡ͅ ̴̨͚̲̲̹̬̒̈́̌̇ͤ̐̐̄̒̇̇ͤ̾͋̈͛̓̌́͢͞͞D̷̴̙̮̙͎̦̥̰̞͚̝͉̹̜͕̱̦̭̍̾ͯͦͯį̷̗̠̳̱͚̦̗̼̘̝̱̤͔̫͔̗̦̬ͣ̊̀̓̾̂̏͆̚ͅc̴̷̨̡̛͕̗̤̜̞̱̲̮ͣ́͒͋̔͐ͯ͂̑̓ͮ̆̒ͅk̷͕̮͓͙͚̣̩̯̦͓̹̝͂̈̄̋͘ ̶̵̶̻̖̳͓̱̱͖͎̳̟̬̬̌ͦ͊͐̌̉̉̇̾̔̀͠N̫̭̝͖͙̫̥̱̰̞̫̮͍̱̗̐͒̑ͩͩ͡͝ǐ̧̮̟̹̥̫͖̞͓͍̐̉̄ͩ̿̋́͑͆̀ͣͮ̒ͯ̒̃́̕͢p̢̡̹̠̖̺̗̌̆̽͒̚̕p͉͉̖̰̩̠͎̦͎͇͂͌̒̚͟͢l̶̩̼̫̘̥̪̟͎̬̈̍̅ͭ̇̽͆̎͂ͣ́̚͠ͅe̵̟̞̲͖͇̟̗̻͚̳̻͉̥̐ͦͬ̆̽͋́ͮ͘͘ŝ̵̢̨͍̠̗̣̫̫̙͕̳̹͚̱͍̲͖̙̼̂ͣͦ͌ͬͨ̆̍͗̔̈́ͤͅ
I mean, let's face it. If anyone is going exhuman, it's us fucking retarded memers.

>>52541169
Is this a genetics thing? I feel like I've heard it before.

>>52541188
Actually, that's exactly inappropriate. The exhumans/singularity seekers in question are essentially monks. They're incredibly austere and live ascetic lives.

I'm intentionally making them not get along with the team that's being sent to meet with them, because they're supposed to work together. The team is two biocons, a scum hedonist, and a hypercorp agent.

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>>52531128
>So is there any way to have horror in this game that doesn't come from existential or cosmic horror?

A Jovian private crushes on autonomist habitat full of hippies who re-sleeve him back to life. In revenge he begins to slaughter each and every one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sv8eWDEFsM

>>52529679
>2. what is the setting like?
For anyone who doesn't know the backstory of Eclipse Phase, basically Earth was destroyed after super AI's were created and used transhuman tech against us. Then after killing 90% of humanity they disappeared, and no one knows what they're doing or where they went.

Also, this world is basically an episode of black mirror. I'm not kidding, they even have the reputation system from that "Nosedive" episode. And somehow the authors think this is just a wonderful place to be in.

So you have different factions vying for power in outer space (cause Earth is still a hellhole filled will killer robots). You have the:

1) Planetary Consortium. Basically a corporatocracy entirely interested in profit. Also all their people are mutant transhuman freaks and robots.

2) Autonomists: Basically a bunch of anarchists, commies, and socialists with a penchant for terrorism and a no rules against researching dangerous tech. Also filled to the brim with mutant transhuman freaks and robots.

3) Lunar Lagrange Alliance: Somewhat resembles a functioning nation. Still filled to the brim with mutant transhuman freaks and robots though.

4) Morningstar Constellation: Basically a bunch of city-states. They're even more freaky than the other transhumanists, because many of them are literally animals given intelligence and then given mutant transhuman bodies. Also, the "uplifts" as the animals are called do nothing but complain about "racism" against them.

5) Jovian Republic: The only major faction dedicated to defending against the very real possibility of the rogue AI's returning, as well as defending what's left of humanity against transhumanity. They have the strongest fleet, and they go toe to toe with giant mutant monstrosities with just the body God gave them, their iron will, and latest tech that humanity has brought forth. They also happen to be the last remnent of Christian society. So basically, they are humanities last stand.

>>52541299
It's basically a gene sequence that marks the end of that particular gene.

>>52541299
Oh well, if they are monks... look up some retarded /x/ shit. They always use those deep sounding names that say nothing.

>>52531128
>They should have no reason to fear anything at all if death is super cheap and easy to come back from.

If someone gets your stack they can torture you forever, or psychosurgically edit you to do whatever they want, or even to be whatever they want. They can examine your memories to see where your backups are hidden and go get them too. They can reprogram you to be a perfect Manchurian candidate and leave you with no memory of it.

The worst part is, if you live in a world where those things are possible, you can never be one hundred percent sure they haven't happened to you. Every memory you have before this exact second could have been implanted by somebody. You could be inside a simspace, or you could be in the real world but with modifications made to your brain to alter your perception of reality. It's a world where metaphysical problems like the Allegory of the Cave or Descartes Demon are actual physical realities that people have to contend with on a daily basis.

>>52541469
Don't listen to this faggot. He is a 40 year old autistic welfare queen who shitposts in this general every day. Just ignore him.

>>52541469
>They also happen to be the last remnent of Christian society. So basically, they are humanities last stand.

Wrong, they are the last remnants of CATHOLIC society. And so never counted as human beings.

>>52541942
Protestants belong on >>>r/schismatics

>>52531128
Players can whip up new character sheet any time, so PCs death isn't a good horror material in any system.

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>>52541942
We are going to build a Space Wall to keep the biocon Mexican rapists and criminals out, and we will make the Jovian Republic pay for it!

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>>52541923
>Don't listen to this faggot. He is a 40 year old autistic welfare queen who shitposts in this general every day. Just ignore him.
Says pic related.

>>52542197

That's a really shitty body design, manual dexterity on those hands has to be terrible.

>>52541965
Are there any protestants in EP at all ?

>>52541923
>Don't listen to this faggot. He is a 40 year old autistic welfare queen who shitposts in this general every day. Just ignore him.

I have been successfully sabotaging attempts to promote me to management position in my department(we have several managers) actually for 2 years now.

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>>52542197
Close but no.

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>>52542214
>That's a really shitty body design, manual dexterity on those hands has to be terrible.
God gave us only one perfect body anon, but tell that to transhumanists.

>>52542260
literally looks like floating chlamydia

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>>52541300
that's very close the the plot of one of the blurbs from the porno pdf

>>52542219
I can't recall any

It actually makes sense that the major religions to survive would be Islam and conservative Catholicism. But for the exact opposite of the reasons the devs think.

Conservative churches have actually done a lot better at retaining and attracting believers than the ones which have tried to modernize or liberalize their doctrines. Paradoxically, the more a church does to stay 'with the times' by adapting to reflect modern sensibilities and values, the more people leave it in droves.

It also doesn't hurt that both Catholics and Muslims have massively higher birthrates than Protestants and atheists.

>>52542350
Wait, what do you think the devs think?

>>52542314
come to think of it, is there any official stance on how Jovians treat homosexuality? Might be interesting and lead to more butthurt(get it hehe?)

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>>52542314
If you're gong to post that, at least post the proofwritten version

>>52542393
>devs
>think
There is no thinking in feminist enlightenment camps anon.
Thinking is rape of patriarchy to oppress non-white non-males.

>>52542393
The corebook mumbles something about Islam surviving due to being progressive and forward thinking (the exact opposite of why Islam is successful).

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>Grandpa what was the world like before evil transhumanist were put into re-humanization centers and Earth reconquista succeeded ?

>>52542457
>Jovian girl
>white

Nice try

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>>52542457
>...so then, we got all the humans to stop trying to compete with us and just go live on their one shitty planet that we trashed.
>And they think they won? Fucking meat brains.
>laughingETI.xp

>>52542427
Islam is actually open minded a lot about alien life. It is mentioned in first pages of Quran.Possibly due to Greek influences.

>>52542506
>competing with ETI
This your brain on transhumanism

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>>52542534
Yeah, you're right, my brain on transhumanism is competing with the ETI. I'm glad I've shown you the light.

>>52542457
There weren't as many lunatics rioting because they identify as attack helicopters and AFVs. They aren't even doing it in protest, they just think its fun, and they still manage to load themselves up with combat cyberware somehow. Oh, and Von Neumann smart mines weren't a thing back then, so you could go past venus and saturn to do science, though we never did back then.

>>52542457
>do you know those lunatics actually wanted to cure bowel cancer?
>madness, I tell you...

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"Fear not going into the battle my brothers and sisters. The transhuman is nothing more than a simulacra, a twisted copy of human mind birthed by unholy process of egocasting and re-sleeving. It is no sin to kill it, and by doing so you are cleansing the universe from seeds of the Devil"
Fragment of speech by Bishop Louis Montgomery to 3rd Jovian Legion before Battle for Liberation of Mars.

>>52542610
way to go showing an example of transhumanist who looks like a STD victim high on crystal meth

>>52542908
>>52542610
Amusing that after setting aside their facial features, the biggest difference between those two is the presence of a fancy hat.

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>>52543347
The presence of a fancy hat and regression flavored sanctimonious drivel, as opposed to early-adopter foolishness. The fancy hat is important because it gives him the symbolic authority to make ridiculous claims about the best interest of the people he intends to murder. The complete futility of Jovian wank is half the fun, because even if they somehow succeed against all odds in killing or subjugating the rest of the human population in the system they drown in wormhole based cyber-terror.

>>52545318
>The presence of a fancy hat and regression flavored sanctimonious drivel, as opposed to early-adopter foolishness.
I wasn't really considering the "substance" of the attached soundbites when I was making my point. Though I think you're on point when describing their attitudes, I'd like to note that they are actually quite alike when it comes to content. Consider this:
A technologically superior Other, assumed to be an existential threat, is identified(ETI/transhumanity).
The mode of coping with this challenge is unquestioningly assumed to be competition(I suppose an attempt at total annihilation qualifies as an extreme form of such).
As for the means of winning that competition, both believe that their total adherence to what is a matter of practicality and situational advantage will award them complete and utter domination over their adversary.

They really aren't that much different from each other, trapped in the same sad, sad state of mind.

>>52545772
On the contrary, I just want to be able to shake hands with the ETI. Maybe go to some kind of galactic bar with it. Pick up some Seed AI chicks.

>>52545772
>They really aren't that much different from each other, trapped in the same sad, sad state of mind.
Problem is those who don't even try to run this race go extinct really fast.

>>52542518
Link?

>>52548016

You need a link to the Quran?

>>52506978
>"I don't know how to parse language that isn't completely literal and exact!"

>>52542395

Nothing specific, but homosexuality is mentioned as being perfectly acceptable and the Jovian Republic is not mentioned as an exception to that.

>>52548415
Nobody is going to go read the actual fucking koran. Go post a link to the section of the commentaries that talks about how allah loves anal probers.

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What if these guys showed up.

>>52542350
Conservative churches only do well in the third world and the USA. They are literally dying in the West.

Why do you think Rome is modernizing so hard?

Because they know they need support from WESTERN PEOPLE WITH MONEY.

Not fucking retarded brown spics in Mexico.

How does your team wrangle your robot slaves?

>>52551255
>Stick them with the prod
>Don't contain it
>A silent takedown

We do it 100% black.

>>52542908
The singular form is simulacrum, frater

>>52551280
It's all in the numbers.

Number 1: That's terror
Number 2: That's terror

>>52550146
I'd probably wind up evolving into a foot for one of those modular people.

>>52550146
for the curious, search "All Tomorrows" and click the sivatherium link (4chan apparently thinks it's spam and won't let me post the link)

The writing is okay at best (my man Mehmet is a turk) but if you skim the beginning it gets pretty interesting after that.

>>52551255
Fork an alpha of the character as a psychoedited slave who is now a muse and robot whipper.

>>52551324
I want to run a game on a hab that's slowly being corrupted by some TITAN tech and everyone slowly begins to talk into Deus Ex easter eggs and memes.

>this whole hab is infected, we need to enact quarantine protocols!
>there has been some activity at sea. im going to watch the coast.

Being hacked as a ringer must be an unpleasant experience, but I'll be damned if I can think of how it'd spread short of broadcasted basilisk hacks. Nobody trusts anyone else. Presumably the virus just plays "Stop hitting yourself" for eternity.

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I need ideas for exoplanets and exoplanet plotlines.

>>52558109

Skim like every homebrew list ever - it's a popular topic.

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>>52558109
Dark dark dark cold run-away planet just cruising through interstellar space.

And make sure you pack your bags for a cold place. Even the molten core pooped out ages ago. There are no heat sources on this planet but your own... or at least, that ~should~ be the case. Who knows what lurks in the dark?

>>52558109
Planet BTFO. Was inhabited by a relatively advanced alien civilization, very recently got fucked up by an RKV or some other fancy shit and now it's more or less literally falling apart. Featuring:

>EXTREME conditions from getting hit with an ETI tier weapon(my idea was having the planet fracture from the RKV impact, but since I have no idea if that's scientifically possible at all, feel free to substitute with something like grey goo, weaponized climate change, 24/7 rain of Rods from God or some other bullshit)
>FANCY TECH SHIT from an alien civilization that was definitely worth obliterating
>DESPERATE ALIEN REMNANTS who want to kill you the moment you walk out of the gate just because you're blocking their only way out of this hellhole

>>52559139
Oh and for extra fun, leave hints that this catastrophe could be easily averted if the aliens didn't subscribe to their equivalent of in-game ideology you dislike the most.

>>52558109
Steal the plot of Leviathan's Wake.

Exoplanet hurtling through the void is actually a gigantic bioweapon launched at you by malicious ayys

>>52497719
Lasers suffer from severe diffraction and are easily countered with ablation. They are useless other than as point defense weapons against missiles.

>>52563497
False. Ablative armor is quite mass-intensive.

>>52563497
The diffraction thing is true thpugh. Lasers are short-ranged.

>>52564352
In space, not so much, but across a distance? Range and targetting problems.

>>52565732
Diffraction is a problem for lasers in space, it's less serious, but it still limits the range. I don't know if I'd call them "short ranged" though, because they have a much better effective range than practically any unguided cannon.

Has there ever been a program put together for custom morph building with the provided rules?

There may be a lot of bad stuff in the AF world, but there are still some good things that past didn't have. Things like
ROBOT
DINO
PUSSY

>>52497719
>RKV
The Fuck is an RKV ?

>>52568603
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_kill_vehicle

>>52568619
Thank you, dear sir

Let's say one wants to play hannibal lector in space. What is the best way to go about that? What sort of skills/connections/abilities would be necessary?

>>52570817
Start with plenty of plot armor.

Then get a good writer to write his script.

>>52570817
A well crafted name that rolls of the tongue is the perfect place to start, probably exceptional medical and psychological abilities.

>>52570817
Plenty of exhumans and infected like eating people meat.

Failing that, try hooking a kitchen module to the side of meathab and start trying to eat your way through the world's biggest chunk of flesh.

>>52570817
Hyper-elite psycho-surgeon who is secretly an exhuman?

>>52572126
Make that a soul-eater exhuman, and we have a winner.

>>52550844
>Conservative churches only do well in the third world and the USA. They are literally dying in the West.

It's doing pretty well in South Korea.

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>>52574178
South Korea is in the Third World

>>52574260
That map is wrong.

Both South Korea and Turkey are listed as third world. Should be first world

>>52575517
No one who has visited would say that.

>>52575908
I feel like you don't understand the definition of "First World"

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>>52575517

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>>52575951
well his map doesn't

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>When you are a crush landd Jovian soldier on a suicidal mission to eradicate a hab full of transthrash freaks, and the clock is running out of time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btPJPFnesV4

>>52575517

It's a bit of an obsolete scale which dates back to the Cold War, but more or less following the same norm, South Korea is First World due to being aligned with the US. Turkey would be Third World, being unaligned (is it?).

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>>52545318
>The presence of a fancy hat
>2147
>not having a fancy hat
Enjoy extinction simulated abomination

Also
>he best interest of the people he intends to murder
>simulated copies of human mind states without soul
>people in any way

>>52576353
Turkey is in NATO. The entire Cuban Missile Crisis was initiated by the fact that the USSR was salty that there were American Nukes stationed on their border with Turkey

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>>52545318
>The complete futility of Jovian wank is half the fun, because even if they somehow succeed against all odds
The Jovian fight against all odds against apocalypse and inhuman monsters is what makes them most attractive.

Remaking Eclipse Phase into military space opera where heroic last men battle among the stars monstrous creations in 60s and 80s aesthetic . How can you resist such potential ?

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>>52576301
Eye of the Tiger belongs to the Ulimates and you know it Genetrash. Go back to worshiping idols and dying of cancer while living gods protect you from the horrors of the night.

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>>52576407
It's been done.

>>52576120
>Brazil aligned politically with Russia

When did this happen?

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>When you finally land on Earth after crushing Planetary Consortium, liberating Mars and campaign to reconquer humanity's home begins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A52--FKUQgU

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>When you destroy your hab with recreational nuclear weapons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbmWs6Jf5dc

Does anyone have stats for an Autarch or the Demiurge himself?

Also, uh...

>When you get to slaughter genetrash by the thousands with your million times folded mono-katana by pretending you have to do it to fit them all on the space elevator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WHW-QNswE

>>52576612

>Does anyone have stats for [...] the Demiurge himself?

His words are pearls, his attacks do not miss, he weeps at beauty and laughs at war. He dares you to surpass him.

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>>52576699
Fair enough, but what does he look like?

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>>52576754

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>When you and your Jovian buddies perform a bombing run on transtrash habitat full of so called "civilian infants" who would become monstrous combat abominations in 6 months

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY

.......
>masked as autonomous anarchists of course, so you plunge Solar System in civil war...wink wink

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>when things go as planned in an autonomist habitat on a typical day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

Question:
If people from Titan are Titanians, what are people from Titania? Titanianians?

>>52576966

According to Wikipedia, the adjective for Titania (Uranus III) is "Titanian" and the adjective for Titan (Saturn VI) is "Titanian". But with a different "a" sound. Tit-"ah"-nian vs Tit-"ay"-nian.

Or you could use Titanean to refer to something of Saturn VI.

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>When you smuggle homemade bioweapons into a Jovian hab

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzExFrZ9vX4

>>52576301
Right before he's outclassed in every way and dies before severely injuring anyone.

>>52577143
>Jovian
>outclassed
You might take a look at their stats and gear.

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>when you breach the transtrash habitat "Harmonious Arcadia of Consent" with your Jovian soldier bros and combat chems start kicking in while the hippies run screaming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNOP2t9FObw

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>>52577242
Are you really trying to tell me Blade isn't an Ultimate? At least aesthetically?

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>when Autonomist Alliance invites you to peace talks and you activate basilisk hack while signing peace accord on live feed transmitted to all their habitats

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDx5oHF_UQ

>RKKVs

The thing about RKKVs is relative velocity makes them vulnerable to the Kirklin mine problem.

The thinnest mist will cause an RKKV to self-destruct.

>>52576914
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugZOJJ8KVEw

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>when Jovians actually invade your habitat

>>52576407
>How can you resist such potential ?

It's boring.

There. I said it.

If I wanted terrible HFY, I'd watch Battleship.

>>52578654
Pretty much this, jovians don't have particularly better stuff but are so far behind in everything else that they can't even over compensate

>>52578654
Don't the Jovians make use of restricted tech in their military though? I could easily see some Jovian spec-ops teams being augmented super-humans.

>>52580955
They also use power armor a lot.

>>52580955
>>52582358
Restrictions on starting PC are only for nanotech and morphs, but Jovian military and intelligence has no restrictions on what they can use and actually have strongest fleet in the system and their military forces are considered the best.

>>52579081
>Pretty much this, jovians don't have particularly better stuff
Wrong.

According to the books their fleet is strongest in the system, and their military is considered one of the best equipped and skilled
>Despite their bioconservative views on technology,
the Jovian Republic retains some of the most feared
military units in the inner system. Disdaining nanotech
and cortical stacks, they focus on superior
training and gear. Many of the older troops are
veterans who fought the TITANs during the Fall.

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>>52583615
Which is weird, because page 36 of rimward talks about how they do use resleeving and stacks in the JR. Not using them would be fucking stupid for military personnel.

>>52498602
I seriously doubt that the RKV is going to "Continue on" after losing a good chunk of it's mass from hitting a Whipple shield. It's going to be a very big explosion. It's not at all like billiard balls.

If the Whipple shield is heavier than the RKV, then it absorbs the whole attack in one big explosion. If it's lighter than the RKV, then the part of the RVK which didn't get blown up is at least going to be deflected somewhat. And remember, it will always be easier to build a bigger shield than a bigger RKV, because the shield does not have to be accelerated to relativistic speeds.

>>52584691
"Let's stop an enormous, fast moving projectile we can't see for more than a few days at most before it hits by building giant lumps of matter in space kilometres across!"
"No, better, let's surround the planet in a shell to stop every possible vector!"

>>52584760
Hell, I just opened the information on whipple shield. 3-18km/s is what they're supposed to protect against. Vs, say, 284802km/s for something moving at 95 percent of lightspeed.

I think the earlier people were right, and you're just saying the same thing over and over until you get an answer you like.

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>>52583615
>Many of the older troops are veterans who fought the TITANs during the Fall.

These guys are hard-cases i assume. So how tough are they? High ranking ultimates tough? Top Firewall erasers tough? Exhuman murder machine tough?

What's the context here?

How far you could launch a seeker if there's no atmosphere, using only the coilgun of the launcher itself? Assuming 1g, no need to complicate with centrifugal shenanigans or something.

Also assuming missile is smart enough to go bang even without the scramjet functioning.

>>52584941
Well if they fought TITANs during the fall they can be assumed to be extremely competent but less than the Rajput, because they didn't score any major victories, just managed to survive. Firewall erasers and exhumans aren't a military force strictly speaking, so the comparison is a bit less warranted. But if we're considering individual prowess, Firewall is also known to employ numerous Fall veterans, and any given exhuman can become one if they get the opportunity to eat their ego.

>>52585093
>Erasers are some of the most dedicated and experienced warriors in the history of our species. While the
ultimates pride themselves on their martial prowess,
they do not regularly pick fihts with TITAN war
machines, exsurgent-infected terrorists, and other
existential threats. The erasure squads are expected
to fiht anywhere in the galaxy at any given time.
They are trained to fiht equally well on the surface
of Mercury as they are in the Oort Cloud. Of course,
some hot zones and high-value theaters (like heavily
populated habs) have standby teams, ready to deploy
at any given time.

>>52584941
SpecOps don't win wars. The Ultimates and Erasure Squads are GREAT. But they likey don't operate in large formations and their numbers are somewhat limited so their great with 'Tip of the Spear' , surgical actions or hitting soft targets but when it comes to conventional warfare their likely out of there element.

The information the other person provided was likely discussing the average Jovian soldier or marine. Better comparisons would be the Jovian military with Direct Action, The Titanian Military, Autonomous Alliance Militias and so on.

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>>52585166
Then what about comparing top Jovian agents with Ultimates and Erasure Squads?

Can they can keep up with the aforementioned, souped up, VR sim trained, auged to the gills transhuman nutcases (from the Jovian view) with wits, skills learned the old fashioned way and their really big guns?

>>52585500
Probably not, no. The Jovians in that bracket are the peak of *human* capacity, and probably lightly augmented to maybe go slightly beyond it. Ultimates.. maybe. They're probably similar in skill levels, but they've got more options available to them for 'surprise' situations.

Erasure Squads at that level are spending their entire lives training in simulspace servers until they're downloaded for *real* murder in a customised morph for the job, then back to it. It wouldn't be pretty.

Maybe if hte JOvians are in battlesuits.

>>52583605
>have strongest fleet in the system and their military forces are considered the best
Their fleet wins on size and I'll need a citation on other military forces

>>52585567
Nothing precludes the other guys from wearing battlesuits as well.

>>52586197
Except they have speed 4

>>52586214
Why would that preclude them from wearing battlesuits?

>>52586412
It doesn't. It just makes their battlesuits more effective than Jovian battlesuits.

>>52586440
Well that was my point. Any piece of hardware the Jovians can get, any other faction can get as well.

>>52586214
That jovian sample character in core book has neurachem lvl1, I don't see a reflex booster on top of that for shock troops for speed 3 that far fetched. Isn't cyberware kinda kosher in Jove (not for civvies of course)?

Also medical tech is supposed to be top notch, I imagine a MRDR gland is more of a separate implanted organ rather than invasive genemodding, so could fly. Hell, you could just supply them with MRDR the old fashioned way, if the gland is too much.

Speed 4 all together, right there, in a luddite way.

>>52586578
The Jovian sample character in the core book is a unicorn. Such people would be extremely rare, whereas neurachem would be typical of Ultimate mercenaries.

Plus he's a flat. It's like putting a spoiler on a Ford Fiesta.

>>52586778
That Ford Fiesta with a spoiler performs just as well with speed 4 and a battlesuit. He'd spent more time reaching that skill plateau, that's all. I'm not saying there isn't a vast technological gap, I'm just saying it could be mitigated somewhat plausibly. As for the rarity, I assume we're talking about best of the best shock troops what they could field here, not your average draftee who's doing his mandatory tour.

>>52586876
No, it doesn't. Shitty aptitudes.

>>52586876
>not your average draftee who's doing his mandatory tour.
That's the thing though. That's most of the Jovian military you're talking about, and most of the people who don't fall into that category still aren't special forces. Meanwhile the average Titanian infantryman is probably speed 3 or 4 when he's on MRDR.

>>52586910
I'm going to take a wild guess, since I'm not retarded, and assume he meant that 'skill plateau' also involved training their aptitudes.

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>>52522233
>But in reality, they're are going to be fucking tubes with rockets at one ends, laser/warhead at the other, and retros dotted around the exterior.
>"tfw i've only play CotDE so smart"

We're never know either, the reason why we're go with cylindrical option mostly because it was much easier to transport throught rockets than the others, since most of our manufacture bases are on the ground. Once we get our base manufacture into space however, it'll be not much of a problem.

And why the hell do you want to start an orbital standout either? It was too costly for our current and 20-minutes-into-the-future standards. It'll maybe be more plausible if we're already reach interstellar era, but by that time, the technology and culture are already so far ahead of our time, so it ships will be so much different on our own. So trying to predict on how the space combat works is pretty much a waste of effort.

>>52586910
Shitty aptitudes don't mean anything RAW, in this context. You just need to spend more cp/rez to get max skill. When you're swinging that plasma cannon around, it doesn't matter how much you bench press. DUR and DR is way worse, but really at this level it's rocket tag anyway, not many morphs can eat a standard thermobaric seeker in the face and live. All that matters really is speed and skill level, and those jovians can match, again plausibly.

Even arguing that actual transhumans with double the COG and INT would come up with better tactics doesn't really hold, since small unit tactics or it's ilk is a skill among others and as such, can be raised to the cap regardless of the governing aptitude.

>>52586994
Sitting your rocket on Earth or accelerating at 1 g in space, the forces are essentially the same. Low thrust spacecraft may look quite a bit different, but for combat spacecraft the biggest difference is the lack of drag.

>>52586940

There's also 20 million more Titanian infantrymen. At minimum.

>>52587117
I doubt either Titan or the Republic has 20 million total military personnel.

>>52587117
Titan has a population of 60 million. People reaching majority in Titan have to perform civil service - but not people who were already there from the swelling in the ten years post fall. Admittedly, it claims most service in 'one of' the branches of the military. So let's say 60%. 70 at the outside. If 40% of the current population somehow reached their majority in titan, making it filled with the incredibly young, you've got 24 million people with reservist gear, but they're not infantrymen - they've got a rifle and a suit of armour. 18 million of those have some sort of former military training, in fleet, or a researcher, or coast guard, or whatever.

But they're not infantrymen. They're just a militia. They can shoot a rifle. That's it.

>>52587605

I mean, that guy's pretty good as statted, but we've discussed before, a combat exo and seeker missiles are not actually universal gear, underlying SPD 2 DUR 35 is not that impressive.

It'd be a right bitch if a pack of these guys jogged over the horizon of your asteroid or moonlet base, though.

>>52586484
Yeah. The main point of Jovians is that if they go for a military action they do it with overwhelming force. No half-measures.

So even if target is better at skills and everything it won't help much because they will field 10 guys in power armor with different weaponry and dumb support drones with no ports open. And on top of that there probably will be at least one spaceship providing orbital strikes.

>>52587247
Well Republic has similar situation. Maybe a little better but not by much. Their reservists will on average have a little more experience with police action and close combat in habs.

>>52588144

Their reservists though might skew a little younger (their minimum age is way less), and their civil service period is shorter (and no mention necessarily that JR arms them directly). On the flipside, while the large majority of Titanians elect to do military service as their civil service tour - it is not required, so some of them worked for other ministries and thus only have their basic militia certification, not full blown experience in Fleet or Marines.

>>52587731
You mean company.

There is little point at sending military transports with less than 50 guys with support equipment. It is also pretty cheap. Especially compared to how much it will cost to clear the coast so that they may get their boots on the ground.

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>>52585500
TAHI is a joke that wishes it were relevant outside the gravity well. They have to go through the Minervans to much force in the outer system beyond Jove's well, and are hemmed in by autonomists and ultimates, and have to go through Moonies to get anything done in the inner system.

>>52585500
We don't know hiw Jovian elite forces look like. We have some spies and average soldiers described, but actual Jovian spec-ops operatives weren't stated.
A veteran squad of cyborg splicers who fought in the Fall supported by elite hackers, enslaved AGI combat drones and brainwashed Async would be probably something they would use.
Also look up TAHI-they have no reservations on using cutting edge technology. And Jovians are the ones with scientists behind TITANs, anti-matter factories and basilisk hacks...

>>52583605
>Jovian military and intelligence has no restrictions on what they can use

Wrong, their tech restrictions are spelled out in Firewall. They have less, but even their least restrictive mission profiles (which likely haven't been launched) still don't use stuff like Infomorphs.

>>52584691
It's going to contact fuse with the shield, and go off like a pure fusion bomb. This will probably destroy the projectile, or at least make it change course or turn into a particle beam. The physics involved are pretty theoretical.

>>52585008
Assuming the launcher punches it to 400 m/s (a little ways above the speed of sound on earth to make sure the scramjet kicks in properly) the range in meters is approximately: 8155*Sin(2x), where x is the launch angle in degrees. That tells you the range where it drops to the height it was launched from, so elevation increases that.

About 8.5 km with an ideal launch angle.

>>52586959
Shitty caps though, Exalts are basically where good combat morphs start.

>>52586994
It also does a good job sloping armor in all directions, which is pretty helpful.

>>52589595
Well a commando unit of 2(two) flats from Minerva Fleet can literally destroy whole transhuman habitats on their own.
Besides most extreme morphs and synths, the common morphs don't offer that much advantage in combat compared to splicer or flat that isn't offset by superior training and numbers.

There's also a hint in Rimward that Jovians are intensively talking to Factors in secret.Since they have some similar views on tech, that could be unexpected Jovian ally.

>>52586165
Actually it says their fleet is the most formidable.They also destroyed two Chinese and Russian fleets in 5 minutes without taking any serious losses.

>>52589710
>a little ways above the speed of sound on earth to make sure the scramjet kicks in properly
Scramjets don't work at all in vacuum and operate way beyond Mach 1.

>>52589758

You know that "habitat" can mean a tent anchored on an iceteroid - and probably does in the Outer Fringe right?

>>52589884
Did it actually say 5 minutes? Because that's just stupid.

>>52590176
Holy shit you are autistic. Do you need everything spelled out in exact language? Do you want him to end his post with "By habitat, I mean the generally accepted 'several thousand people in habitats such as, but not limited to: asteroid/tin can/space station/cole bubbles."

Are you that unable to cope with anything not entirely linear?

>>52589931
Yes, this is why I asked what I asked earlier.

t: the anon who got his answer

>>52590315

No, I'm also tired of people using the fact that the setting is ambiguously written to act like whatever their bullshit bias is is cold hard fact.

"Majority" means 51% and up. "Habitat" basically means "Settlement" in EP, so yeah, maybe 2 Minervan spooks can burn down the equivalent of a frontier homestead of transhumans. But it's not like they're popping cole bubbles or clusters of tens of thousands of brinkers or anarchists by virtue of are there even groups that large in the Fringe? At least which we know don't still exist because the books talk about them and thus, if everything written is an absolute fact then since they don't add "this was blown up by Minervans" then it's still there.

If anything, jovian and minerva fags are the autists. "Oh gee, the book says they kill transhuman habs, that must mean that 2 naked flats could wipe out Locus! Death to anarchist frakenfreaks!" There's no thought past the word on the page to deeper meaning because that would interfere with their desire to read an entirely different genre.

>>52589663
Probably no AGI. It's much safer to deploy a copy of one of your soldiers.

>>52590460

Also, while we're at it, "Largest" could mean the Jovians have literally one more ship than everybody else. I don't know many people who would interpret it that way, but without a number like "The Jovians have 1,000 destroyers, 250 carriers, 50 dreadnaughts and 1 super-fuck-you-wagon" that IS a legitimate interpretation of the language.

>>52587247
The memory that, during the Fall, humans transformed
into monsters and became part of the TITANs’
arsenal, and that some type of virus did this, isn’t
something the Jovian authorities have ever attempted
to suppress. If they wanted to, it’d be impossible. Too
many people saw it with their own eyes. Whereas the
Consortium media downplays these facts, or disguises
them behind fiction and games, the Jovians present
it matter-of-factly. They want their population to
remember that fear and terror.
The average Jovian citizen participates in at least
one simulated exsurgent outbreak per year in order
to raise awareness and keep quarantine procedure
skills sharp

>>52580955
>Don't the Jovians make use of restricted tech in their military though?

Many assume that because the Jovian populace are
denied bleeding-edge technology, their security forces
don’t have it, either. This is a dangerous misconception.
CBEAT has approved certain technologies specifically
for use in the field by JSFI officers and CBEAT
investigators. Aside from military-grade weapons
and armor, this includes implants, nanotech, and
espionage gear not available to civilians or the regular
security forces. Nanohives, mesh inserts, surveillance
gear, bots, bioware augmentations, life recorders,
and even sometimes cortical stacks are available to
elite agents.

>>52585093
>>52585166
>>52585500
Encounters between Firewall
and JSFI HUMINT officers have been plagued
by failures—mostly due to the sentinels underestimating
how heavily their opposition would be
augmented. JSFI field operatives aren’t augmented
to the worrying degree that their opposite numbers
in Commonwealth Fleet Intelligence are, but
they’re frequently on par or even better equipped
than Firewall sentinels.

>>52590315
The habitats they destroyed are described as "brinker and exhuman outposts"

That in no way suggests population over 1000, and in fact such habitats are quite rare in the Kuiper belt.

>>52590460
So yes, you are autistic. Got it.

>>52583977
>Firewall has a tendency to undersell the Jovian
intelligence services. The belief that Jovian spies don’t
resleeve or use nanotech is naïve. Remember, Jovians
believe these technologies are deadly, but the people
selected for the intelligence services have no issue with
laying down their lives for the good of their nation.
Firewall is lousy with Jovian assets, and very few
of them are so gross as to stay in their natural-born
flat. I can only speculate on their purposes. Currently,
Firewall is more of a thorn in the Consortium’s side
than the Republic’s. Is that forestalling a shadow
war with the Republic? Or is it the result of Jovian
embedded assets nudging Firewall’s focus?

>>52590706
>The guy who said "Are you that unable to cope with anything not entirely linear?" while insisting that the word habitat indicates a large size is calling someone else autistic

jej

>>52590584
Ok, thats a nice bit of siege mentality social conditioning, but it doesn't make anything but fortifying and developing in the gravity well a viable option for jove.
>>52590594
Its nice they've not totally crippled themselves and aren't really the Imperial Guardsmen jovaboos tout them as. This hardly means they are apace with the rest of the solar system, but you hold basic tech for the setting up as the equalizer.
>even sometimes cortical stacks are available to
elite agents
I wonder what sort of spooky, cutting-edge tech the AA and PC shells out for their specialists in special circumstances

>>52590779
Considering the uses for agents beyond Republic borders stacks pretty often could be a liability. Backup in a safe place is more reasonable.

>>52590779

Titanian intelligence operatives are said to have such bleeding edge and stacked mental augs they're practically Exhuman - probably layers of multitasking, neural enhancing etc slapped on top of one another. They're not necessarily spitting acid at people or cutting them up with their blade tails but some of them are probably about as smart as you can get without going full posthuman.

>>52590849
That's think tank part or actual field operators? If field operators how the fuck do they carry all this shit without leaking it over to black market through shady casters?

>>52590909
Neither, analysts

>>52590779
AA? Not much, they disorganized and scattered without unity and purpose. Sure they might have some brilliant individuals and hardcore morphed up teams but they lack the scientific and industrial infrastructure for military-research complex like Jovians and Commonwealth have.
They are basically ISIS Caliphate on steroids in EP setting.

>>52591235
Titan is in the AA

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>>52590909
That's the think tank. When AA needs the most operator operators to ever operate they either send Medean assets (killer exhumans), erasure squads (killer exhumans), or particularly dangerous scum (killer exhumans).

for their part the PC would send OZMA agents (exhumans with pensions), Direct Action military-industrial otherkin (killer exhumans), or Cognite assets (exurgents), depending on which oligarch you upset.

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>>52592365